Truth Be Revealed
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Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, the host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm John Walczak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI.

In 2001, police say I killed my family and rigged my house to explode before escaping into the wilderness. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. Join me. I'm going down in the cave. As I track down clues. I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Hunting. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world. Robert Fisher. Do you recognize my voice? Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio. I've spent almost a decade researching right-wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters. But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil. They're just some weird guy. So join me every Thursday for a look under the mask at the weird little guys trying to destroy America.

Welcome to the Pikedon Massacre, a production of iHeartRadio and KT Studios. Episode 8, Truth Be Revealed. ♪

Over the course of seven episodes, we have examined the details of the murders of eight members of the Roden family, the investigation that was launched in their wake, and what led up to the arrests of six members of the Wagner family. Now we're going to look at where the case stands and what lies ahead. Next week's episode, Burning Questions. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at KT Studios with Stephanie Lidecker and Jeff Shane.

When we left off last week, it was June 26, 2019, and Frederica Wagner was in the defendant's chair in a Pike County courtroom. She was facing charges of obstruction of justice and perjury in connection with the Roden murders. Here's Frederica's niece, DeRay, defending her aunt's claims. First, the prosecutors falsely believe the bulletproof vests were purchased before the Roden homicides. Both sides know that it is not true.

They were in fact purchased on May the 7th, 2016, 15 days after the date of the rodent homicides. So that's proven. We know that there's like receipts, right? Yep. Got receipts. We have everything. Second, she guessed and thought that she bought them from Amazon. Now, why they made a big deal about what origin? They came off the internet. She ordered them off the internet.

Whenever you go on the internet, a bunch of places come up. Usually Amazon's the first thing that comes up. She did that a lot, but they made a big deal about it. So they went back through her books and they found out that she did buy them, but it wasn't from Amazon. It was eBay.

But criminal defense attorney Mike Allen told Jeff that Frederica's statements are a much bigger deal than DeRay thinks. Well, obviously, when you have a situation like this and someone involved with the people that are charged makes a purchase of two bulletproof vests, whether it's from eBay or Amazon, it's something that the prosecution would be interested in. And she apparently was before the grand jury when she misrepresented, if you will,

Do you think that

Her explanation of just saying, oh, I don't remember, I got it confused. As an attorney, do you think that makes someone look more guilty? Yeah, it does, especially something like this. And I know she's elderly, but boy, she certainly seems like she's pretty sharp. But it's a rather big event in most people's lives if they purchase bulletproof vests online or any way you purchase them. You would think that you would remember where you purchased them from, right?

So, yeah, it doesn't make her look good at all. Ultimately, Frederico Wagner's lawyer filed receipts that proved she made the purchases 15 days after the slayings. This led the defense team to turn over potential evidence as required to the prosecution too late to meet the criteria for a speedy trial. They dismissed the charges against Frederico Wagner while reserving the right to charge her again.

Mike Allen broke down what all this means.

So she could get charged with the same crimes again? Oh yeah, they were dismissed without prejudice, which means that the state can refile them at a later date. But it seems that Frederico Wagner doesn't foresee that happening. Here she is speaking to the press after the hearing. Trust in the Lord with all your heart. Lean not to your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will direct your path.

And as my attorney will tell you, it was dismissed because I was innocent. They had no evidence against me. I never lied about anything. Frederica Wagner's freedom validates what DeRay has believed all along. She has never in her life done anything wrong. She's not capable of it. And, you know, if she thought that her kids would have done something bad, she would have...

recommended that they turn themselves in for anything. I mean, she lives by what she says she lives by. Which is what? Well, she gives all the glory to God.

Angela Billy, Jake and George Wagner were charged with aggravated murder. Angela Wagner's mother, Rita Jo Newcomb, and Billy Wagner's mother, Frederica, were both charged with obstruction of justice and perjury. Newcomb was also charged with forgery. All six of them plead not guilty and our justice system presumes innocence until guilt is proven. But one thing that doesn't help Frederica Wagner's case is a revelation by the prosecution at a pretrial hearing for her son Billy in 2020.

The state submitted evidence showing that the night before Frederica testified before the grand jury in 2018, she had searched the internet for information about penalties for perjury. Here's our anonymous Wagner family relative. She shared her thoughts with Jeff. Do you think that his mom, Billy's mom, Frederica, do you think she had any involvement? I believe that she definitely did.

I don't believe she tried to stop it. You know, I don't believe that she, I believe if anything, she probably, definitely she would have encouraged it and her son to do what he did.

Others, like Roden family friend Stephane, thinks that Frederico wasn't just involved in the murders, but could possibly have orchestrated the whole thing. I don't take her for a dumb woman at all. She's a businesswoman. She's probably shrewd. She's the head, the monarch, you know, so the monarch is usually the one that has their thumb on everybody. She wanted the control over everything, seems to me like.

To investigative journalist Jody Barr, the alleged involvement of Frederica Wagner upends conventions of who actually could be capable of being involved in murder. I think this case, if it ended today as it is alleged, I don't think there is anybody on this planet that can look at those people and say, those people look like a family who could slaughter eight human beings.

If you ever thought you knew what a mass murderer looked like, I think this case in Pike County is showing you, you have no idea. So here we are four years later. Two of the six defendants are free, and four others are in prison facing death penalty charges accused of killing eight members of the Roden family. Here's Stephanie, followed by Jeff.

As it stands now, the trials for Billy, Angela, Jake, and George Wagner are slated to begin in the next few months. Now, to really understand this case and where it stands and what's to come, we'll have to examine some of the most important points in the 5,000 pages of discovery documents that list the prosecution's evidence.

There are more than 332,000 files of evidence in this case. One of the exhibits in the prosecution's arsenal is related to Billy Wagner and his copy of the 1999 movie The Boondock Saints. The film is about two brothers in Boston who exact a form of vigilante justice by murdering mobsters and other criminals.

It's extremely violent and over the top. But the big takeaway for this case is that the brothers in the film use silencers on their guns, a method that members of the Wagner family are accused of using to execute the rodents. As we covered in the last episode, a homemade silencer was discovered at a farm once owned by Jake and George Wagner. But DeRay thinks the connection is tenuous at best. I read that and I had to laugh

I had to laugh so hard. Okay, so you have to remember that this was a very organized, brilliantly done execution. This is something that you wouldn't learn on a DVD. Somebody with military background, Navy SEALs. I mean, whoever did it was brilliant. They're professional. These people are not professional killers.

Mike Allen told Jeff that the DVD could be a building block in the state's case. You can't watch a movie and learn how to wipe out an entire family. That seems like a stretch. What is your take on that? Yeah, I don't think they could introduce it for the proposition that that's how the Wagners learned how to do that. I think if the state introduced it or attempted to get it introduced, it would just be kind of peripheral to like,

hey, you know, somebody in that family watched that movie or ordered that movie or bought that movie and it's a movie about vigilante justice. But I would certainly try at least because apparently in this case the allegation is silencers were used and

they were used in that movie as well. So it would be one piece of evidence that they could add on to other evidence. It would be a piece of evidence, if admitted, that they could talk about in closing arguments. So while not determinative in any way, shape, or form, it is evidence that could be helpful to the state.

There's a mountain of other evidence the prosecution plans on using. One that stands out is an Excel spreadsheet that contains 519 entries of messages about child custody. I spoke with Mike Allen about it. Another piece of evidence that's been talked about

are these Excel spreadsheets. Apparently they had hundreds of entries of cataloging the messages about child custody and Facebook screenshots regarding it. What does that tell you? Well, it tells me that could be part of the motive in this case, and that's pretty strong evidence of motive if they're keeping all these things in screenshots. And it seems that they were kind of obsessed with this desire to get custody and control.

That would be circumstantial, but circumstantial evidence sometimes can be very strong evidence. Just because evidence is circumstantial doesn't mean that it's not good evidence and strong evidence, but it's like you're dropping pebbles into a pond. Every little pebble makes a ripple, and you build on those things, and at the end of the day, if the prosecution does it right, every little bit helps with respect to building a case.

The discovery documents also include information about a person that some speculate could be an informant. Jody Barr told us about trying to track down this source. The name of the informant has not been published, which is why it's bleeped in his interview. The only thing I know is...

That was a name given very early on who I was told did business with Chris Roden. I was never able to even find that this person exists. I guess they did. This person really does exist. But when I was given a list of names of people who could have potentially either been involved in this or

knew about this. This is one person I tried to track down and find over in Scioto County, which is just across the line from Pike. And I was never able to find this person, but I was told that this person knew Chris Sr. intimately as far as, you know, they were together a lot and they were in some business ventures together. But again, I was never able to find this person or to verify anything that was ever told to me about him.

Prosecutors for the case claim another confidential informant told them of a specific meeting at Frederica Wagner's home. It occurred with the other accused family members and allegedly included talk of, quote, taking revenge on a special agent, then Attorney General Mike DeWine and Pike County Sheriff Charles Reeder. The revenge was allegedly planned if her family was arrested.

Jody Barr dissected these claims with Jeff. It just seems so careless that the people accused of this would be bringing outsiders into a home, although we don't know who the confidential informant is, but that they would risk getting caught if they were so skillful

in pulling this off that they would bring outsiders in to have discussions like this where they're number one admitting it essentially but secondly you're talking about taking hits out on the chief law enforcer in pike county and the chief law enforcement for the state of ohio but that's an interesting point that it doesn't really compute that if they were like ninjas and they could do this elaborate crime why would they be so sloppy then to have these conversations with

with other people. When I see confidential informant in this sentence, man, a part of me goes, I wonder if one of the Wagners has rolled over and is helping this investigation. It's still something. I know there have been some plea deals already made here, some charges dismissed. But you've got to wonder, who is this informant? Because if it's a member of the Wagner family, and I think that's a twist no one saw coming.

Let's stop here for a quick commercial break. We'll be back in a moment.

After your entire world is flipped upside down,

From unbelievable romantic betrayals. The love that was so real for me was always just a game for him. To betrayals in your own family. When I think about my dad, oh, well, he is a sociopath. Financial betrayal. This is not even the part where he steals millions of dollars. And life or death deceptions. She's practicing how she's going to cry when the police calls her after they kill me.

Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm John Walzak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. Oh my God.

In 2001, police say I killed my family. First mom, then the kids. And rigged my house to explode. In a quiet suburb. This is the Beverly Hills of the Valley. Before escaping into the wilderness. There was sleet and hail and snow coming down. They found my wife's SUV. Right on the reservation boundary. And my dog flew. All I could think of is him and the sniper me out of some tree.

But not me. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. For two years. They won't tell you anything. I've traveled the nation. I'm going down in the cave. Tracking down clues. They were thinking that I picked him up and took him somewhere. If you keep asking me this, I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Searching for Robert Fisher. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world.

Do you recognize my voice? Join an exploding house, the hunt, family annihilation today and a disappearing act. Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your favorite shows. Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio. I spent almost a decade researching right wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters.

But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask. I've collected the stories of hundreds of aspiring little Hitlers of the suburbs, from the Nazi cop who tried to join ISIS, to the National Guardsman plotting to assassinate the Supreme Court, to the Satanist soldier who tried to get his own unit blown up in Turkey. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil. They're just some weird guy. And you can laugh. Honestly, I think you have to. Seeing these guys for what they are doesn't mean they're not a threat.

It's a survival strategy. So join me every Thursday for a look under the mask at the weird little guys trying to destroy America. Listen to Weird Little Guys on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The discovery documents also have 2,918 pages related to DNA evidence.

Mike Allen spoke to us about the role DNA could play in the case. I can tell you from dealing with DNA evidence, both as a prosecutor and as a defense attorney, that's not good news for the defense. If they've got almost 3,000 pages of DNA evidence, evidence that would have been sent to the lab and comes back, they've got to have something. I mean, I would be shocked.

if they didn't have some credible DNA evidence against at least one of these defendants, probably more of them. That's bad news for the defense. There's just no way of getting around it because DNA evidence, if extracted properly and analyzed properly, it pretty much lights out if they did it correctly. So I think that's problematic for the defense.

Here's Stephanie, followed by Jeff. In addition, the report also lists 1,170 crime scene photos, cyber forensic reports of the Wagners, their cell phones and their computers, and hundreds of pages citing reference to the recovery of firearms and ballistic testing.

In fact, at the pretrial hearing for George Wagner just a few weeks ago, we got a glimpse into some of the evidence they have. So this hearing was for a motion the defense was making to get George Wagner, the eldest son, released from prison on bond. In response, the prosecution laid out some of the evidence they have against George Wagner, basically as an argument to keep George behind bars.

One of the lead detectives on the case testified that he and his team have real ballistic evidence connecting firearms used in the homicides with guns believed to be owned by the Wagners, including a .22 caliber long rifle, a .40 caliber handgun, and a .30 caliber gun.

Prosecutors also pointed to evidence that shoe prints from the exact same shoes purchased at Walmart by the Wagners to allegedly frame Dana Roden's brother, you remember James Manley, were found in dried blood at two of the crime scenes. And get this, in fact, receipts for those exact same shoes, they're a very specific Walmart athletic shoe, were found during a search of the Wagner property in 2016.

There are also over 8,000 recorded statements from interviews with George Wagner who claim there really was no issue regarding custody between Jake Wagner and Hannah Roden over their daughter Sophia. And that we know is just not true.

Right, so with all of this, the Wagners still continue to declare their innocence. Is it really possible that they did in fact have nothing to do with it? Well, recently, one of the Wagners' lawyers made statements to the press saying that a loose custody arrangement between Jake Wagner and Hannah, further daughter Sophia, was being formalized by another attorney in Ohio at the time of the killings. But due to the fact that Hannah was murdered, the agreement was never formalized, so it's not permissible in court.

I spoke with DeRay about her second cousin, Jake Wagner, to see if we could get any more information on the custody arrangement between him and Hannah Roden. Do you know anything about, like, they were trying to get custody of Sophia before the murders? I don't know anything about that. Okay. Yeah, I was just curious. Yeah, because you hear a lot about that. Yeah, I never heard, you know, I talked to my aunt a lot. That was never mentioned.

So do you think that that is fabricated as well? If I'm hearing you right, I don't believe that it has anything to do with it. I don't believe there was a custody battle. I think that's another made up lie. What makes you say that? Because I never heard anything about it. I mean, somebody did it, but we don't know who. And we're for sure it wasn't the Wagner family.

It's a tragedy. And most of the people that I talk to, they're all thinking it's drug related. Something that had to do with drug trafficking. We don't know. It's who knows. It's a mystery. We found it strange for a woman who covers her family's case closely not to know anything about the custody issues that other family relatives disclosed to us before.

Even stranger is something else that was presented at George Wagner's most recent pretrial hearing. Again, he's the eldest son. Prosecutors pointed to a screenshot of a message from Hannah Roden to one of her friends. In this message, she's discussing the Wagner's attempt to force her to sign forged custody documents, the ones that we've talked about in previous episodes. Now get this. The screenshot was found on the Wagner family computer seized during the investigation.

And again, allegedly, the Wagners got it by hacking into Hannah Roden's Facebook account. The message is nothing short of chilling. It reads, and I quote, "I won't sign papers ever. It won't happen. They'll have to kill me first." End quote. It does seem clear that the Wagners were sort of obsessed with custody and control of Sophia. And in speaking with people close to the family, this actually wasn't the first time custody became an issue.

Christina Howard's sister, Tabby, was married to George Wagner for several years. The two had a son together, but eventually split up. According to Christina, following their divorce, the Wagner family tried to force Tabby into handing over custody of their son. This is Christina's recollection of events. She spoke to Jeff about it.

Somehow or another, Angela, like, manipulated her with different papers to sign and stuff. And they had Tabby signing over the rights and custody to George. You know, they had money for an expensive lawyer. Tabby didn't. And so they had custody plumb up until, you know, they got caught.

and stuff for the crimes. Do you think that she was obsessed with having custody of all of her grandkids? Oh yeah, definitely. Why do you say that?

Tabby, like whenever she would try to reach out to George, like, hey, can I come visit my son? And Angela would get on there and be like, oh, he's not your son anymore. Would tell Tabby like, oh, you might have gave birth to him, but I'm his real mother because I take care of him. And all these just nasty things.

And Christina told us that in the aftermath of Tabby and George's custody battle, Hannah Roden contacted Tabby for advice on how to deal with their own custody issues with the Wagners. I knew that Hannah was struggling to keep custody of Sophia because she went to my... Her and my sister were pretty close. And...

You know, Tabby straight up told her like, "Hey, if they present you with papers, do not sign them. Give them to a lawyer first. Let the lawyer read it over and proceed from there because they will try to steal custody of Sophia. Even if they're trying to act like they're understanding and all of the sorts, do not listen to them because they will screw you over."

Christina's account of George Wagner and Tabby's dispute, in addition to everything we've heard about Jake Wagner and Hannah Roden, clearly lays out a pattern of deceit and control when it comes to custody. But when Jeff asked DeRay about George and Tabby's custody battle, she soundly refuted Christina's claims.

I want your side of this. People say that George had a custody situation where he tried to get custody of his son. Jake, maybe a similar situation. People are saying that Angela was just obsessed with getting the kids and wanted all the control of the children. I don't believe that. I don't believe that. I know she loved him, but I don't believe she was obsessed. I think she was a normal grandmother and that she was an excellent role model.

While we don't know all the details of George Wagner and Tabby's custody case, there is evidence that the Wagners did deceive Hannah Roden by trying to convince her to sign fake custody documents. Here's Stephanie, followed by Jeff. It seems being locked up in prison hasn't even stopped the Wagners for one second from trying to manipulate those closest to them. As we discussed earlier, in September of 2019, Angela Wagner tried to discuss case strategy, even influence testimony from prison.

Prosecutors also claim that Angela Wagner called her mother, Rita Newcomb. She's the one that's accused of forging those custody documents. She called her several times and basically asked her not to testify against the family and also told her how to explain away the custody documents that she's accused of forging.

As a punishment, a judge suspended Angela Wagner's in-jail phone and mail privileges. Mike Allen told us that this is just another blow for the defense. Any criminal defense attorney that is doing their job, and I'm sure every one of these criminal defense attorneys are doing their job, they tell their client from day one, do not, under any circumstances, discuss the case on the phone because you can guarantee

that the conversations are being taped. Prosecutors can use those conversations if the person is talking about strategy, makes some kind of admission, intimidates witnesses. The recording doesn't lie, and that could end up to be some pretty strong evidence against her at the end of the day.

George Wagner has also raised eyebrows for an odd request he made after five months in prison. He asked to be transferred from general population to solitary confinement. Usually solitary confinement is given to a prisoner who either is a threat to other prisoners or who may be in danger in the general population. Mike Allen told us that George had a different reason. His stated reason was that he wanted to be able to study the Bible in peace. That's a little unusual when...

Inmates ask for solitary a lot of times, although they may not say it. They're asking for that because they've been threatened and they want to make sure that they're as safe as they can be in jail. But when I read that, I kind of wondered, is that the real reason? I mean, you know, you just have to wonder what the motivation is.

So how does all this evidence add up? How strong is the state's case against Billy, Angela, Jake, and George Wagner? I'm a criminal defense attorney. I used to be a prosecutor. And as a criminal defense attorney, you never say never as far as your chances in front of a jury. Having said that, the evidence sure seems strong. And we don't know all the evidence. All we know is what's public. So...

The old adage that a prosecutor could indict a ham sandwich is true, but smart prosecutors don't indict cases that they don't think they can win beyond a reasonable doubt. And I think Mike DeWine, who was in the driver's seat in this thing, there's no way he would have indicted this if he didn't think he could prove it or ultimately someone could prove it at the end of the day. Let's stop here for a quick commercial break. We'll be back in a moment.

Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Stories about regaining a sense of safety, a handle on reality after your entire world is flipped upside down.

From unbelievable romantic betrayals... The love that was so real for me was always just a game for him. To betrayals in your own family... When I think about my dad, oh, well, he is a sociopath. Financial betrayal...

This is not even the part where he steals millions of dollars. And life or death deceptions. She's practicing how she's going to cry when the police calls her after they kill me. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm John Walzak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. Oh my God.

In 2001, police say I killed my family. First mom, then the kids. And rigged my house to explode. In a quiet suburb. This is the Beverly Hills of the Valley. Before escaping into the wilderness. There was sleet and hail and snow coming down. They found my wife's SUV. Right on the reservation boundary. And my dog flew. All I could think of is him and the sniper me out of some tree.

But not me. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. For two years. They won't tell you anything. I've traveled the nation. I'm going down in a cave. Tracking down clues. They were thinking that I picked him up and took him somewhere. If you keep asking me this, I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Searching for Robert Fisher. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world.

Do you recognize my voice? Join an exploding house, the hunt, family annihilation today and a disappearing act. Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your favorite shows. Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio. I spent almost a decade researching right wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters.

But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask. I've collected the stories of hundreds of aspiring little Hitlers of the suburbs, from the Nazi cop who tried to join ISIS, to the National Guardsman plotting to assassinate the Supreme Court, to the Satanist soldier who tried to get his own unit blown up in Turkey. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil. They're just some weird guy. And you can laugh. Honestly, I think you have to.

We've been covering this case for over two years.

And in that time, we've examined not only the details of the eight murders themselves, but the multiple theories that have surrounded them. We looked into the speculation of a drug connection. Discoveries of the murder scenes are now advancing the theory that killings could be related to a drug cartel. The rodents had a pretty sizable crop of marijuana plants on their property. So, you know, there were indications that they were involved in some drug deals and drug trade with marijuana.

We explored the rumors of small-town revenge. There had been reports of scuffles with other people in public. In his message, he was talking about, I'm going to break his fucking legs and curb stomp his ass. We also investigated a series of eerily similar killings. We have had a double homicide, four children left alive. This is very similar to the Roden case. And we had heard that there were other people who were shot, middle of the night, execution style, in their homes. And...

When you're looking at the Roden case, and then you see these other cases in a county that small, you start asking yourself, what the hell is going on? It doesn't make sense that this is happening there unless there is some sort of common denominator. But in the end, it was some of the people who were closest to the Rodens that were arrested for orchestrating the brutal, cold-blooded massacre. At the center of this case are members of the Wagner family whom we believe the evidence will show conspired together to kill these eight...

As we struggle to make sense of the crimes, we've listened to the impassioned arguments of family members who insist that their relatives are innocent. Our family joke is that there's no way that Betty Crocker and the Dode Boys could ever go to an extreme of murder. Somebody did it, but it wasn't them.

We've heard first-person accounts from relatives that support the primary motive in this case. Hannah and Jake, with their little girl, there was a custody battle. And Hannah wasn't allowing Jake to see her. And it just set him off to the point where Jake, he had made the comment, you know, that he was going to kill her.

But there are some who are simply torn. When the Wagners were arrested, you had your 50-50. You had people that said, yes, I knew that they did that. And then you've got people that say, there's no way those people did that. I don't think anybody would believe that, you know, a family could have put together such a tactical hit on another family that they had created life with. It's still too difficult to accept and too hard to believe.

Many in the Pikedon area believe there is no doubt that the Wagners plotted this horrific killing spree. People wanted to paint the sort of feud between the Rodens and Wagners as something like Hatfields and McCoys. Doesn't make sense to me if they are innocent, because who else would do that? Whether the Wagners are innocent or guilty doesn't change the fact that the lives of eight members of a revered local family, the Rodens, were taken on April 22nd, 2016.

Dana Roden, 37-year-old mother, grandmother, and nurse living in her brand new home. Chris Roden, 40-year-old loving father and grandfather. Dana and Chris's oldest son, 20-year-old Frankie Roden. Frankie's fiancé, 20-year-old Hannah Gilley, who was in bed with their six-month-old baby. Frankie Roden's three-year-old son, both of whom were spared. Hannah Mae Roden, 19-year-old mother to two-year-old Sophia and her five-day-old newborn Kylie, also spared.

Dana and Chris's youngest child, 16-year-old Chris Jr., who had just gotten his driver's license. Chris Sr.'s older brother, 44-year-old Kenneth Roden, father of three. And his cousin, 38-year-old Gary Roden, who was staying with Chris Sr. that night. It is horrible to this day. And Dana and her family will never, never get to celebrate birthdays, you know, and

have parties and get togethers and barbecues and stuff like that. It's terrible. It just really hurts my heart. In all this, it's sometimes easy to forget those whose lives were spared that fateful night, but who lost everything in the process. The Rodin children. It's two families really have been destroyed. And at the center of that tragedy is, you know, are these kids whose families are torn apart and lost?

Sophia is the one that is losing the most at this point in her life because she's lost her mom's side of the family. She's lost her father's side of the family. And she is in child protective custody where no one knows where she is. She has lost on both sides. She's lost both of her families because it's supposed to be happy for her. This is her childhood.

The tragic legacy of the Roden murders continues to loom over the town of Piketon, Ohio. You know, whatever happened that morning on Union Hill Road, you know, it impacted a lot more than just those eight people who were killed. I mean, you've got their family members and you've got people in that area are going to remember this forever. This is never going away. My family was a part of this horrible, I mean, just absolutely awful act, you know, that they...

I do.

I feel so terrible for the rodents, and I've always wanted to be able to express how sorry I am. And just because we still love Angela and Jake doesn't mean that we aren't sorry for what they've done, I guess.

With trials for Billy, Angela, Jake and George Wagner potentially just months away, the residents of the Pipeton area sit in anticipation, awaiting an end to the most gruesome chapter in the town's history and a conclusion to Ohio's most notorious murder case. I've been in the system for over 50 years, and that is extremely rare that you got four people, four defendants facing the death penalty.

What will happen is anyone's guess. If they walk out of that courtroom without any convictions, I just can't imagine how the rodents go on. And the public too. I mean, how do you go on not knowing for sure exactly who did this? Oh, it's going to be brokenhearted. It's going to be broken hearts. I honestly think that the Wagners is going to a mistrial.

It's a search for the truth. And that old proverb from Shakespeare, the truth will out in the end. I believe that as it applies to this case. The mystery will be solved. The truth will eventually and inevitably be discovered. And it looks like that's the way they're heading. I, like everybody else, want to know. I want to know how the story ends.

Reach out to us on our social media outlets with questions. We're on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter at Pyton Massacre. We look forward to answering your questions in upcoming episodes.

Pikedon Massacre is executive produced by Stephanie Lidecker and me, Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound design by executive producer Jared Astin. Additional producing by Jeff Shane and Andrew Becker. The Pikedon Massacre is a production of iHeartRadio and KT Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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