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When you've got to make it through eight homicides, you're damn right it's going to take a long time. Because each one of those people count. Each person had a life. This has to be one of the most horrific things, if not the most horrific night of this person's life. This is the Pikedon Massacre, Return to Pike County. Season 4, Episode 6, Mountains of Evidence.
I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at KT Studios with Stephanie Lidecker and Jeff Shane. Thus far, George Wagner IV's trial has been both mundane and shocking. It's important to note that George Wagner IV, currently on trial, has pleaded not guilty and has maintained he did not kill anyone. His father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, has also pleaded not guilty to all charges.
The prosecution is making its case methodically, with hours of testimony occasionally punctuated with gruesome new details of the night in question. The defense has been mostly quiet, seemingly waiting for Angie Canepa and her team to present anything tying George Wagner to the crime. The statement calls his next witness. Thank you. I'm Peter Collin, agent Shane Hanshaw.
Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, as you shall answer unto God? Yes, sir, I do. Shane Henshaw was one of the lead agents for the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigations, or the CBI. He arrived on scene hours after the bodies of Chris Roden Sr. and his cousin Gary Roden were discovered. This morning, Andrew Wilson is asking the questions for the prosecution.
Let's talk a little bit about your background or your employment history taking you up to your current employment. So when did you start out in law enforcement? I was basically commissioned as a peace officer in 1990. The first 15 minutes of testimony highlight Hanshaw's qualifications. He has years of training in crime scene reconstruction, ballistics, and blood spatter analysis.
The prosecution displays a large photo of Chris Roden Sr.'s property. Agent Henshaw points out the front yard. A tow truck sits outside the home Chris Sr. lived in where Gary was staying that night. There's an 18-wheeler trailer and an '80s sedan with the front half missing.
Henshaw began his investigation on the lawn itself. As part of your work in this case, did you collect the Mountain Dew can that's depicted in that picture? Yes, I did. In addition to that Mountain Dew can, did you find a couple other items out front of 4077 Union Hill Road? Yes, sir. Once again, you see my placard number two, the scaled placard, and you see a cigarette butt or a partial cigarette butt there.
When it comes to testifying, it's clear Hanshaw is well-practiced. He listens intently to every question, then turns deliberately to address the jury face-to-face. As part of your work in this case, did you collect that cigarette butt? Yes, sir, I did. From everything that I've seen and heard, he did an excellent job with it. No question about any of the evidence that had been proffered by the state, and I think that's in large part because of BCI's professionalism.
The Mountain Dukan and cigarette butts contained traces of Gary Roden's DNA. Next, Hanshaw and Fortner moved on to the exterior of the trailer. Tell us what stood out to you when you did that initial look. I noticed that there were multiple bullet holes in the front of the house. There were six bullet holes in a line moving progressively closer to the door.
You noticed the screen door had bullet holes, but the front door did not, is that correct? Yes. I seen that. That led me to believe that the front door was most likely open when the bloodletting event had occurred. On the evening of April 21, 2016, it was clear and breezy in Piketon. Temperatures were in the low 70s until about 7 p.m., when the wind picked up, dropping the temperature to the high 50s. The open door likely provided Chris and Gary with some welcomed fresh air.
Stephanie and I talk about some of the photographs shown in trial and the details they reveal. We've heard a lot of reports over the years that Chris Sr., Frankie Rodin, and even Chris Jr. Rodin worked at Big Bear Lake at various times. They operated big equipment. We know that Chris Sr.,
was said to be building patios in and around the area. But we've never been able to substantiate those claims, essentially, until now. Gary Roden, Chris Senior Roden's cousin, also worked at Big Bear Lake, specifically when he was staying with Chris Roden, which he did on occasion. And this was one of the times that he was staying there, you know, working just to make a living. Looking at the crime scene photos,
We can see the clothing that Chris Sr. was wearing when he was murdered, and he's literally wearing a hooded sweatshirt that says "Big Bear Lake" on it. The question as to whether Chris and Gary Roden knew their attackers or whether they were taken by surprise still remains. Here's forensic medical examiner Joseph Scott Morgan. They had to neutralize Chris Sr. and Gary. The positions that they occupied in the family
Chris was known not to back down. If they did not neutralize him, if they just, say, grazed him in some way and he was able to retreat or Gary was able to retreat and they had access to phones or maybe they had the ability to get out of that trailer, they could blow the whole show that way because next thing you know,
Dana is aware of what's about to happen. Hannah is aware in her trailer with what's going to happen. They couldn't run the risk of allowing one of these people to get the jump on them or to alert anybody else. So I think that that's why they went to Chris's house first and neutralized Chris Sr. and Gary at the same time. Prosecuting attorney Wilson brings up photos of clean exit holes on the interior wall of the trailer.
There are torn bits of wood circling the holes. What does that indicate to you? It indicates directionality, first of all, that whatever object caused that would have appeared to be coming from the outside in because this is on the inside. Every bull that we tracked had characteristics and appeared to come from the front of the residence toward the residence and then away from the residence.
And again, were these consistent with pass-through type shots? Yes, sir. Some of the bullets went clean through the trailer and out through the opposite wall. Here again, Joseph Scott Morgan.
Well, first off, you're talking about a mobile home, which is obviously not the most robust structure anyway. You've got a projectile that is traveling out of the end of that muzzle and it is supersonic. That means that with a high powered rifle, it is actually traveling faster than the speed of sound.
One photo shows an exit hole right next to wall art that says, quote, "Love lasts forever."
The jury has shown a diagram of where bullet shards were found inside the trailer. There are two on the front porch and a bunch around the chair in Chris Sr.'s living room. A bullet is lodged in a stereo speaker as well. In addition to that projectile that you just identified from inside the wall there, were there other projectiles in different areas of that living room? Yes. Okay. There's a stack of tan pouches and boxes in front of Agent Henshaw.
At this point, George Wagner fiddles with his goatee. His defense attorney checks his watch. Every bullet shard that was collected is painstakingly taken out of its corresponding envelope and confirmed by Hanshaw as evidence he bagged six years ago. Here's James Pilcher, longtime investigative reporter in Cincinnati, now with Local 12, followed by Joseph Scott Morgan. I mean, a lot of us in the media and in the lay community
blaming not lawyers are like, why can't they speed this up? Why are they going through every showcase? I think they're trying to cut the defense off at the knees as much as possible to say we exhausted every avenue and came up with this conclusion. And we looked at every cigarette butt and we looked at every DNA sample and we did everything we could.
You know, we live in a fast food world. People, I think it even extends out to courtroom. They want things delivered to them immediately. And sometimes it takes longer to prepare. It certainly takes much longer to make your way through it. And that's the case with this. We're talking about eight dead bodies here, eight in four different locations.
Was there any evidence that you saw with your eyes, based on your knowledge, your training, your experience, that led you to believe that any shots had originated from inside of that trailer going outside of that trailer? I found nothing at all that would indicate that any shots were fired from within the house going out of the house.
My opinion was that the shots did occur from outside. I felt that they were from the front yard area. Agent Todd Fortner was brought in to use what is called a Faro 3D scanner of the entire crime scene, including the exterior. Here again, Joseph Scott Morgan. With the Faro technology, it is a laser that is set up, and it's kind of hard to describe if folks have not seen one.
It sits on a tripod and it is akin to something that you would see along the side of the roadway if you've ever seen an individual doing surveying. Only this thing is automated and you have lasers that are being essentially blasted out of one portion of the unit.
and the unit itself is spinning around as these lasers are kind of firing off in every different direction. The laser is shooting over 10 million different points as it spins around, and you can capture height,
depth, width, all of those things that we couldn't normally do with a regular SLR camera at the scene. So it really breathes life into this when you're taking a look at it. And so when the jury members see this in that courtroom in Pike County, Ohio, for just a few moments, they're transported back in time. Walk us through, what do you remember about scanning that scene? We did one scan from outside.
up front where you could see kind of the whole front yard. There were bullet holes in the front of the trailer that subsequently we placed trajectory rods in and to measure those we placed spheres on those rods that then the scanner can pick up to measure our angles. Trajectory rods are poked through bullet holes giving investigators a general idea of the path of the bullet as it passed through a surface.
He pulls a 3D model of the entire yard with long lines running into the front yard. Based on the angular measurement data, we take the horizontal angle, the vertical angle, and this is just a line drawn between those two spheres, a straight line that then can be extrapolated back to a possible origin of those shots.
Based on the data that the Ferro scan was telling you, was it believed that those shots that went through that front door came somewhere from the area just behind that bushel? They point to a spot in the ground about 20 feet from the front door on the front lawn. What we do know is there are strikes in the front of the porch, so it had to be at least there, and where the trajectory lines end on the ground so it couldn't be any farther back. Joseph Scott Morgan.
These rounds appear to be going from below to above, so they're rising up essentially from the ground. More than likely, they would be in a kneeling position. I think folks would ask, well, why would you be in a kneeling position to do that? Well, you would want to try to secure your person
as solidly as you possibly can because the recoil and with this particular weapon there is a tremendous amount of recoil because this is such a robust round you're going to feel it from the moment you engage that trigger until that energy transfers through the butt of that weapon and into your shoulder here's stephanie we've also heard reports that chris senior
Was expecting Billy Wagner, the accused dad, that night. They were apparently going to have an important conversation. So what does that mean? Does that mean that Billy went up to the front door and knocked on it and Chris answered? Could it be that they were just surprised? Just the idea of there being a person kneeling in wait outside of Chris Sr.'s home in the dark near the woods is such a terrifying thought.
But we still don't know who that person is. Which one was it? We're going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment.
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At this point, testimony moves to the inside of the home. In the galley, members of the Rodin, Gilley, and Manley families prepare themselves for another day of horrific photos. Geneva, Chris Sr.'s mother, sits stoically in the courtroom. Her daughter hands her a tissue even though she isn't crying yet. Now let's talk about blood or biological evidence at this scene.
They start with the pools of blood in and around a recliner in the living room inside the front door. Just from what we saw, it's obvious that you can see what you could consider to be origins or a place that a person was in when the bloodletting event occurred. Did you take some swabs of the blood in front of that chair? Yes, sir, I did. Hanshaw meticulously documented shoe prints in the dried blood in and around the area as well.
Is it more likely for a shoe print to be tracked or picked up in blood when that blood is wet or fresh as opposed to dry and whole? Absolutely, yes. You said when you very first observed these footprints, they were already dry in the blood, is that correct? Yes, they were.
You talk about preserving it, documenting it. How do you go through actually photographing it and then ultimately collecting any shoe prints in this scene? Yes, they were all photographed and documented as they were when they were found. And when you talk about detail, what's standing out to you where you're like, uh-oh, they may be able to do something with this? What's actually standing out to me at that particular time was the fact that... Can I stand again, please? Sure. In this area of the shoe...
I'm not seeing any kind of wear pattern at all. That meant something to me. The shoe print evidence could not be shown to anyone outside the courtroom because Judge Deering ordered media not to show any photos that included blood. Sitting through this testimony, victims' families are, of course, emotional. One family member looks down, not wanting to see what comes next. Here again, James Filcher.
They want to shock the jury, but they also don't want to offend the family. There's been some serious tension between the media and the family and the prosecution that's borne out in some of these motions and some of these other things that we're seeing. Because we think everything should be shown. I mean, blood is blood. They're bloody crime scenes. This is what happened. You got to know how these people died. You got to see it. I mean, it's part of a murder trial. And there's eight victims.
all shot multiple times. So it's part of the deal. In this same area of the living room, you identified that as being on the floor. Did you also find what appeared to be blood splatter on the wall? Yes, we did. Is there anything that sticks out to you with respect to any directionality of that blood or anything like that? First of all, there's a lot of blood stains on this wall. And in my training,
Here again, Joseph Scott Morgan.
that is an indication of a lot of anger because you would think that anybody that was familiar enough with firearms that would show up in this environment would also know what kind of force was being brought to bear with just one shot. You should be able to recognize that
You don't really need that many, but for some reason the perpetrator found it necessary to lay into Chris Sr. specifically to make sure that he was totally and completely eradicated, that he would not rise again. Can you tell the jury, how did you take that swab? Where did you submit it to? And was that eventually submitted to the lab for DNA testing? I believe that eventually it was submitted for DNA testing to determine actually which victim's blood this was.
The swabs from the stain contained in that exhibit in the living room of 4077 Union Hill Road, also depicted in photo ID number 18, tested positive for blood. And the DNA profile of the blood from this swab contains Chris Roden Sr.'s DNA. One family member buries her face in her hands. Another covers her mouth and wipes away tears.
If Chris Sr. was still alive lying on the floor, the next bit of evidence may explain what happened in the last moments of his life. As you were doing your examination of this area, did you also find a projectile strike in the floor by that rocker recliner? Yes, sir. It was quite some time later before I felt that we were
at a point in our processing, in our investigation, that I was able to move that chair. When we did move the chair, that's when we noticed that there was a bullet hole or suspected bullet hole in the floor right next to the chair. It appeared that it was going from above down. We knew that it had came from inside going down toward the floor and assumed that it may have exited under the mobile home.
Todd Fortner explains further. At some point, did you actually use rods to try to determine the angle that that bullet may have gone through that floor? Yes, it's a fairly steep downward angle, so the muzzle of the weapon was fairly close. A second hole was found here, and the rod then will extend downward through that hole.
And did you find, again, that second hole to be in line or in trajectory with that first hole that you had stuck the rod in? Yes. Were you able to track that hole through that joist beneath that trailer? Yes, we were able to track it down into the ground. At that point, another agent, Durst, crawled under the trailer and recovered one of the bullets.
What did you notice about that projectile? Did anything stand out to you? It was a hollow point, appeared to be a pistol projectile that had not expanded. Basically the way a hollow point bullet works is a softer substance, human tissue, is designed to go in and expand those metal petals out in order to create a larger wound track. Joseph Scott Morgan.
Most people, when they think of a bullet projectile, they'll think of what we refer to as ball ammunition. That's a bullet that kind of has a rounded nose on it. That's kind of the traditional image that you think about. So if you have a .40 caliber round that's being fired out of a weapon,
.40 caliber is pretty much what you're going to get with ball ammunition. That can deform and all those sorts of things, but the diameter of the round is not going to change that much. However, when you start talking about a hollow point,
Fortner explains why the bullets they found didn't deploy.
If it hits something hard, for instance wood, concrete, potentially even bone, before hitting enough of a quantity of soft tissue to expand, it will basically just dent the front of it and it will keep going and it will basically become a non-hollow point projectile. Does that indicate to you, based on your knowledge and training and experience, that that didn't hit soft tissue? Yes.
The bullets themselves kind of speak to you as a crime scene investigator. I don't recall something where the actual sequencing of the gunfire tells the story this vividly. Because you get an idea of when this horror is just visited upon Chris Sr. Along with Gary, there's an awareness, I think.
You know that the world is kind of blown apart inside of this home. His arm was mangled. And so he's writhing in pain on the floor. And then you see these other rounds that come from another weapon, and they pump him into his body. His life ends right there on the floor. Sadly, it seems Gary Roden suffered a similarly terrifying end. Agent Henshaw found his glasses and baseball cap nearby in the kitchen.
Hanshaw opens another envelope and pulls out Gary Roden's blood-stained hat. As you examine that hole or perforation from the outside, did you notice any blowout or any fraying of that hole on the back there that indicated that it was an exit wound as opposed to an entrance hole? It appeared to be an exit. That's what I initially thought it could be. Okay. Well, let me ask you this.
At some point, did you later learn that when that item was being examined, a possible piece of a projectile fell out of it? Yes. Were you able to look at that hat and possibly track where that bullet had actually come out at the front of the hat? At this point, George Wagner's face reddens and he clenches his jaw. And again, does it appear that that area of that hat has been pulled or torn or ripped away from the hat, the bill area there? Yes, sir, it does.
Here again, investigative reporter James Pilcher, followed by medical forensics examiner Joseph Scott Morgan. Somebody shot Gary Roden in the back of the head. The bullet went through his head and then knocked his cap off and the bullet lodged in the bill of his cap. Once hell begins to rain down, you know, where all of this is occurring, the door busts open. How did he react at that moment in time?
Was he in total shock? Did he have an awareness? Did he know that Chris Sr. screamed out as his arm was kind of blown apart? Did he rush to his side? And we don't really know that part, but in my mind, I've imagined that, you know, the same person that exerted dominance over Chris Sr., potentially, it would have been very easy as Gary is kind of tending to this dear family member of his.
for somebody to have just simply ended his life, execution style, as he stands over and pumps this round into the back of his head. Can you tell us what we're looking at and where we're headed there? A214.
I would be standing in this general area. Again, this being the kitchen, the chair is here, and you're beginning to see blood patterns. At some point, did you continue to move through that residence back towards the back bedroom where the bodies were? Yes, sir, I did. He found Chris and Gary at the foot of the bed, covered in a blanket. After taking photos of the entire room, Hanshaw carefully removed the blanket to further document the bodies.
Can you tell us what's depicted in this picture and what you're trying to show? Trying to show the original position of the hands of the victim. The victim's family members are having an incredibly hard time with the graphic photos. Some won't allow themselves to look up at the screen where the photos are being projected. Others weep openly.
A450 once again is a photograph of our victim's hand showing obviously blood and some of the condition of the clothing as well. Okay, and when we're talking victim, is this the first victim, Chris Roden? Yes, it is. When you looked at his body position, did you find his arms would be up over his head and his sweatshirt rolled back over his head? Yes.
When they got to Gary and Chris Sr.'s bodies to do their examinations, their hands were above their heads, and their sweatshirts were pushed up. Now, for us, that's an indication that a body has been drugged. Yes, this would be the arm of Gary Roden, and it extends out parallel with the bed, and there's saturation stains or a large amount of blood on the...
the exterior of the jacket. In that photograph you can see a lot of blood around the mouth, the nose, discoloration around the eyes and then what I thought appeared to be a bullet hole near the ear. And did you continue to document or get closer pictures of what you believed to be a bullet hole? Yes sir, I did. What is the purpose of taking those pictures with respect to that body at the scene?
I want to document this as much as possible. I can't control what anybody else does after these bodies are taken out of my care or after I'm going. So I want to document them as they were, as I found them.
to essentially settle back and understand that anything that I do with the bodies, I can move it slightly and it takes it completely out of context. So he was probably directed, tell your people to take the bodies out this specific way. And, you know, when it comes to Chris Sr. and Gary, that's important. Hanshaw testifies that along with the photographs, his team took hundreds of blood sample swabs from the home and the bodies of Chris and Gary Roden. They also used what is called a forensic vacuum.
Tell the jury what a forensic vacuum is and how a forensic vacuum works. That's relatively simple. We have a small vacuum that are designated for that purpose and that purpose only would be to look for trace evidence such as hairs, fibers, anything residual that might have been left behind.
From there, we would seal that bag and then I normally would put that bag in another bag and put my label and my signature on it. If I'm wearing a mask, a hood and gloves, is that going to impede my DNA from going somewhere where you're going to vacuum it up with your forensic vacuum? Yes, it can. If Andy Wilson drags those bodies to the back of the bedroom and I've got gloves on,
Am I going to leave touch DNA on this body? Most likely not. But you do that anyways, just in case, is that correct? Yes, at that particular time, you have no idea if a suspect was wearing gloves or not wearing gloves. Here's Jeff speaking with Joseph Scott Morgan. Here we are a couple weeks into the trial. The prosecution still has this DNA problem. The more cases I cover, personally, the more I hear this cry, you know, from the public. Where's the DNA? What's the DNA?
jurors walk in and they are expecting DNA in every single case. And I'm sorry, that's not accurate. It's not going to happen every single time. You know, if you have a barrier between your hand and the surface that you place that hand upon, there is not much of an opportunity for you to shed these dead skin cells that will have an incomplete strand of DNA in them.
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When you hit play on Post Reports, you'll get fascinating conversations and sometimes a little fun, too. I'm Martine Powers. And I'm Elahe Azadi. Martine and I are the hosts of Post Reports. The show comes out every weekday from The Washington Post. You can follow and listen to Post Reports wherever you get your podcasts. It'll be a match, I promise. ♪
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After hours of testimony centered on blood and projectile evidence in the home, the prosecution turns to Chris Sr.'s garage and the space above it.
Investigator Henshaw was initially drawn to the security cameras. We thought it appeared as though it were pointing toward the residence. Okay. At some point, did that pique your interest to try to go find a DVR or a recording device that might be linked to that camera? Yes. We attempted to look for any kind of recording device that would have maybe documented what happened or given us some idea. We traced the wires back. They led inside.
And we found nothing, no recording device connected to this system. They tested the disconnected wires for DNA in case the perpetrators had handled them. There was nothing. But the door into the building also stood out to Agent Hanshaw. Did you examine that door a little more further for other evidence or the possibility of evidence? Two things stood out to me. One is it appeared as though there was forced entry.
Which would be consistent with the door handle lying on the upper surface of the porch. And the second thing is there appeared to be a small transfer of blood on the exterior face of that door. This doesn't look like a spatter pattern, it looks like a transfer pattern.
The difference would be a transfer would be if I had blood on my hand and I touched this paper or something else and then moved it away, probably would leave blood that I transferred from my hand onto that surface. Did you eventually take steps to identify that according to your BCI numbers and try to collect that blood for further testing? Yes. Those swabs were sent to the lab for testing?
That stain or those swabs tested positive for the presence of blood, and the blood contained in those swabs contained the DNA of Gary Roden. The defense has few questions for either of the BCI agents, but they do offer one final stipulation.
When things are stipulated to, it is an agreement that's entered into between defense counsel and prosecution that they will stipulate to that bit of evidence that they're not going to argue it, they're not going to debate it. Your Honor, this time the parties have another stipulation. All right, put that on the record then. Yes. The parties will stipulate and agree that with respect to 4077 Union Hill Road,
None of the evidence collected or examined with respect to that scene contained any DNA that was linked to George Wagner, this defendant, Jake Wagner, Angela Wagner, or Billy Wagner. That's correct.
That's the voice of special prosecutor Andrew Wilson, conceding there was no DNA evidence linking any of the Wagner family to the site where relatives found Chris Roden Sr. and his cousin Gary dead in April 2016. There's no DNA evidence. People who are not involved in the system, it's the first thing out of their mouths. Well, do you have DNA evidence? Well, for me, the shoe prints tell everything.
We've been using shoe prints for over 100 years now. I mean, it's been accepted in courtrooms in a lot of different places as valid signs. It was a massacre, but it didn't seem as though they went back to kind of cover their traces. I think they did take a lot of steps, but there's no such thing as the perfect crime.
The term criminal mastermind is kind of an oxymoron because criminals generally aren't masterminds and they often make mistakes which lead to their convictions. And this is one of those examples. More on that next time. For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at KT underscore studios. The Pyton Massacre is produced by Stephanie Lidecker, Jeff Shane, Scott DeGraw, Andrew Arnau, Gabriel Castillo, and me, Courtney Armstrong.
Editing and sound design by Jeff Twa. Music by Jared Aston. The Piketon Massacre is a production of iHeartRadio and KT Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Please welcome our Pike County Dogwood Festival Queen. Lord, I just thank you for bringing us all together as a community.
Who could have killed eight family members in one night?
I lost my best friend and I will never be the same because of that day. Four crime scenes, no DNA, no witnesses. The killer left those children laying in their mother's blood. The word that comes to mind is overkill. Who was the mastermind? I'm telling you, if they frame us, I'm not sitting in prison. One thing I learned...
The smaller the town, the bigger the secrets. Be sure to watch our upcoming documentary, The Pike County Murders, A Family Massacre, premiering on NBCUniversal's Oxygen Network and also streaming on Peacock this Thanksgiving Day weekend, November 24th and November 25th. Please check your local listings, and our hearts are with the Rodens and the Gilley families.
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