Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, the host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm John Walczak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI.
In 2001, police say I killed my family and rigged my house to explode before escaping into the wilderness. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. Join me. I'm going down in the cave. As I track down clues. I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Hunting. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world. Robert Fisher. Do you recognize my voice? Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.
Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio. I've spent almost a decade researching right-wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters. But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil. They're just some weird guy. So join me every Thursday for a look under the mask at the weird little guys trying to destroy America.
Listen to Weird Little Guys on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, and welcome to Haunting, Purgatory's premiere podcast. I'm your host, Teresa. We'll be bringing you different ghost stories each week, straight from the person who experienced it firsthand. Some will be unsettling, some unnerving, some even downright terrifying. But all of them will be totally true.
Listen to Haunting on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You live to try to defend your family, or you live to try to defend people, if you can. It's not something I can put my finger on, but it's just inside of us. I would wait until a hail of bullets for somebody in my family to this day. And I don't know why, but I would. And everybody in my family would do the same. We just would. This is the Piketon Massacre, Return to Pike County.
Season 3, Episode 8, Manner of Life. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at KT Studios with Stephanie Leidecker and Jeff Shane. So far this season, we've heard a lot about recent court proceedings between the Wagners and the prosecution that will shape upcoming trials. They've covered everything from where the trials will be held, what evidence will be allowed into testimony, and who might be charged with what.
All of this leads to what we hope will be some small form of justice for the Rodin, Gilly, and Manley families who lost the unthinkable. When the massacre initially happened six years ago, a lot of the remaining family members spoke publicly. Not so in recent years. However, we've made contact with some people who want to share their memories of their family. Here's Jeff speaking with a Rodin family member who reached out to us. They've asked us not to use their name.
I'm curious how you found us and what made you contact us now. I drive a lot on the road and I listen to podcasts everywhere. I happened upon the Piketon Massacre, which, you know, is part of my extended family. So I wanted to listen to it. And I was really impressed with the respect that was given to the family. And so a friend of mine and myself, we, you know, eagerly wait every week to hear it. And so I just commented on it, you know, thanking you all for being respectful to the family.
What is that experience like, losing loved ones, but then losing it in a way where other people are kind of a part of your experience? It'd be a strange thing to define for you because we would see each other a few times a year at family reunions and what have you. So it was a giant shock, and I hate to say this, but it wasn't as hurting to me as I know it was to a lot of the very close family members.
And it's hard to describe a loss, such a loss of a large chunk of a family. When you first heard the podcast, what was your thought? I kind of got interested in yours because you all would give the facts as they were, and then you would talk about the possibilities of how that would make people feel. So that was very interesting to me. These are not just people who were moved from this earth. They were people. They were real people.
Jeff asked what growing up as a member of the Rodin family was like. He first spoke about Geneva Rodin. As a reminder, Geneva is Chris Rodin Sr.'s and Kenneth's mother, Frankie, Hannah, and little Chris's grandmother.
Growing up, especially in my younger years, we would go visit Geneva and her family. And the things I remember the most, when you met Geneva, you were guaranteed a smile and always a hug. And whatever they had, whether it be a watermelon or a piece of cake or whatever it was, was shared with you when you got there. You just became one of the kids. Geneva just was always the sweetest thing ever was. And would just hug you to death. ♪
About three times a year, our family would get together and we would just pile in a car and we would ride and see relatives. And Geneva lived close to other relatives. So we would just kind of make a big round trip into Ohio and then back into Kentucky. We would spend two or three days up there, just piling up wherever we could. And our family was that way. If you went to their house, they just made room for you. It didn't matter. You just had a great time and you'd go swimming and you'd do this and that.
We didn't have Facebook or things like that in those days. It sounds idyllic. A nice way to grow up. It was. It really was. Immediately after the murders, Geneva spoke publicly about the unimaginable loss she was facing. On April 22nd, 2016, in one single night, she lost her sons, Chris Roden Sr. and Kenneth Roden, her grandchildren, Frankie, Hannah Mae, and little Chris Roden, and her nephew, Gary.
Her words were a stark juxtaposition to the idyllic life her family once lived. I'd like to say that I'm the mother of Christopher Sr. and the mother of Kenneth. And from my mother's heart that I hurt so bad inside from the day that I found out that there's someone out there
that knows anything about what happened would be please, please come forward. There has to be someone. It was almost like the world had ended when I found out about the family that they took out. My grandchildren, my ex-daughter-in-law, my nephew, and
My grandson's girlfriend, there was eight members that they took that day. And the hurt don't go away from a mother. I think about it day and night. I lose a lot of sleep over it. And still I try to go on. The rest of my children is going through so much.
Here are Stephanie and Jeff speaking about Geneva Rodin. Geneva Rodin is nearly 80 years old, and it's impossible to imagine what she deals with every day, not only the court proceedings, but also being there for her family, because there's still many other family members who rely on her and lean on her as the Rodin matriarch.
Several years ago, when we were first making the documentary for Oxygen about the rodent murders, Jeff and I actually went to the nursing home that Geneva resided at at the time. We actually thought she was a distant cousin to the rodents, and we didn't realize until we got there that she was actually Chris Sr.'s mother, and that, you know, she had lost her children and her grandchildren.
And ultimately, she was uncomfortable speaking on camera, which we, of course, completely understood. It was all just way too raw for her, and her level of grief was, frankly, unimaginable. Geneva is really an example of a person who's, frankly, inspiring. You know, we've said this many times since then. When you meet another human being who has experienced
such deep pain and she can continue to push on and continue to be there for her loved ones and show up to court relentlessly and push through then surely the rest of us can push through whatever is stressing us in our lives and she's really offered us a lot of perspective. I share this really simply to say the level of grief that this family has experienced is incredibly far-reaching.
Geneva Rodin and other members of her family, I would imagine the catalyst for them wanting to speak out is to bring attention to their family's case and not just have it be about the accused Wagner family and really remind everyone that the victims, the Rodins in this case, were real human beings who were not just what happened to them in 2016. It's so true. And also, you know, oftentimes when we talk about crime victims,
The victims just become a footnote. It's always about the manner of death and less about the manner of life. And this is another example that, you know, Geneva is a living and breathing woman who has had her entire family wiped out. And whoever is responsible for that should pay. Jeff continued his conversation with the Rodin family member.
Were Chris Sr. and Gary and Kenneth, were they around? Did you see them? They were about probably eight or nine, maybe 10 years younger than me. I remember Chris Jr. and Kenneth and them, they were wandering around just doing what kids do. They play with us. Kids of all ages played together. We really didn't keep in contact after, you know, outside of family reunions. Their life kept getting in the way for everyone. And that's just a sad fact of the way it was.
They were just beating their way through this world just like everyone else. To believe that's why this thing was more shocking than one would think.
It became clear that there were obvious parallels between Chris Roden Sr.'s upbringing and how he, alongside his wife Dana, raised his own family. They were just people. They were just good old Americans. She was the daughter of a man named Tip who lost his life in a little place called Jonesboro, Ohio. He was logging and a tractor come back on him and killed him. And then not too long after that, she lost her mother.
That left Geneva with raising her own siblings. After losing her mother and father, she got married and they had children. And this happened at the same time, that she had this entire group of people, her siblings and her own children that she was raising. So that takes an immense amount of strength to do, given the way the world is. And Geneva didn't have a whole lot to get through this world, but she made it.
She was a finder and she raised them and she raised fine people. Geneva's father was one of eight or ten brothers who grew up down in Kentucky. They lived in poverty, but it's not a poverty that most people would understand. During the wintertime, they didn't have shoes. They didn't even have leather to put on their feet. They would wrap rags or whatever they could find around their feet just to get to school.
They went to school in a one-room schoolhouse on a little place called Grassy Creek. There was no way to make a living for their father, James. That survival instinct was passed down through Geneva and most of the family. And her dad was an amazing man. Even long before there were mechanics, he would find old cars or tractors and make them run, and then he would trade them for stuff that didn't run.
Now, in that trade, he would get a little extra money, which would go to his family, and they might be able to buy a little something, a little bit of food. I've heard the rodents being super resourceful with cars and good with your hands. I've heard that about Chris Sr. being fiercely protective of one another and going to bat for each other. It's the same stuff.
And it's a little easier for me than it would be for you, of course, because I know the family. But that is very interesting that you can draw a line from the early 1900s to her children and see similarities. Like Chris Jr. would just jump under the hood of a car and be able to fix it. I could see those similarities and being able to defend each other. I could see that going all the way back to that side of the family.
I just want to clarify, by Chris Jr., you mean Chris Roden Sr.? Yes. He's Chris Jr. to you because there's another Chris? Yes. Jeff also recently had a phone conversation with Talisha, Dana and Chris Sr.'s niece, and Hannah, Frankie, and little Chris's cousin. While gone more than six years now, the Rodens are present with Talisha and live on with her young daughters.
As someone who has been working on this story for many years, I feel very touched by it. And I'm sure, you know, obviously being related to everyone, it means a lot to share about and talk about it.
Can you hear me okay? Yeah, I can hear you. I was checking to see where the kiddos were. How many kids do you have? I have four. You have your hands full. Yes, they're all girls. I actually have one named after Aunt Dana and them. Her name is Hannah Lynn. We gave her Hannah after the two Hannahs and Lynn after Dana. That's beautiful.
So Dana was your great aunt, and she was able to meet your eldest daughter Cherokee before everything happened. Dana was my aunt. She was Cherokee's great aunt. So who are your parents? My mother was Dana's sister, Kathy. She has two sisters and a brother. Her brother's name is James Manley. And then my other aunt, Bobby Jo. As a reminder, Talisha's aunt, Bobby Jo Manley, is the one who discovered the horrific crime scene and called 911.
Yes, I need it up, Jesse. 40. Let go. Come on. I need you to tell me your address. What's the address? Give me just a second. We walked to the mailbox. I'll take my brother home, Dad. Okay, what's the address? Give me just a second. 4770. 4770.
477. Okay, 4077 Union Hill, correct? Yes, 477 Union Hill. Sam, Sam, you got to tell me what's going on. There's blood.
okay okay
Did you drive over there? Yes, I did. What's your brother's name? Chris Roden. St. Gary Roden. Chris and Gary Roden? They're both dead. You think they're both dead? I think they're both dead. It looks like someone has beat the fuck out of them. Okay. Is there anybody else in the house? Not that I know of.
The trauma of that discovery is long-lasting.
I used to hang out a lot with Bobby Jo, but like after everything happened, she just like completely changed. Here again is Jeff. As a reminder, Bobby Jo Manley is Dana Roden's sister, and she discovered the horrific crime scene at Christina Roden and Frankie Roden's house. And to just kind of put yourself in her shoes, she found out that her loved ones were heinously murdered, not by word of mouth, but actually by discovering their bloodied bodies.
And an experience like that, it changes you forever. How could it not? And we did a little research into severe trauma like the kind Bobby Joe experienced. And only around 7% of Americans report experiencing an event like this. And obviously, even I would say what Bobby Joe went through is probably worse than what a lot of those 7% report. It's just unimaginable. And I don't think anyone could ever understand what she's dealt with. Here's Jeff again speaking with Talisha.
Oh, wow. So you guys grew up together? Yeah, we grew up together. We was pretty close. Her and my little brother was close, too. Him and Christopher wasn't very far apart, either. Everybody used to ask me what I thought of Frankie. I was like, listen, me and Frankie and...
Hannah and Christopher and Henry Jr., which is my brother, and Heath, which is my other brother, I said we was something else, especially around Fourth of July, because when Fourth of July came, we wanted to try and have Roman candle fights and everything else. So there'd be like big family celebrations on these kind of days? Yeah. We're going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment.
Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Stories about regaining a sense of safety, a handle on reality after your entire world is flipped upside down.
From unbelievable romantic betrayals. The love that was so real for me was always just a game for him. To betrayals in your own family. When I think about my dad, oh, well, he is a sociopath. Financial betrayal. This is not even the part where he steals millions of dollars. And life or death deceptions. She's practicing how she's going to cry when the police calls her after they kill me.
Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm John Walzak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. I'm John Walzak.
In 2001, police say I killed my family. First mom, then the kids. And rigged my house to explode. In a quiet suburb. This is the Beverly Hills of the Valley. Before escaping into the wilderness. There was sleet and hail and snow coming down. They found my wife's SUV. Right on the reservation boundary. And my dog flew. All I could think of is him and the sniper me out of some tree.
But not me. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. For two years. They won't tell you anything. I've traveled the nation. I'm going down in the cave. Tracking down clues. They were thinking that I picked him up and took him somewhere. If you keep asking me this, I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Searching for Robert Fisher. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world.
Do you recognize my voice? Join an exploding house, the hunt, family annihilation today and a disappearing act. Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your favorite shows. Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio. I spent almost a decade researching right wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters.
But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask. I've collected the stories of hundreds of aspiring little Hitlers of the suburbs, from the Nazi cop who tried to join ISIS, to the National Guardsman plotting to assassinate the Supreme Court, to the Satanist soldier who tried to get his own unit blown up in Turkey. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil. They're just some weird guy. And you can laugh. Honestly, I think you have to. Seeing these guys for what they are doesn't mean they're not a threat.
It's a survival strategy. So join me every Thursday for a look under the mask at the weird little guys trying to destroy America. Listen to Weird Little Guys on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hi, I'm David Eagleman from the podcast Inner Cosmos, which recently hit the number one science podcast in America. I'm a neuroscientist at Stanford, and I've spent my career exploring the three-pound universe in our heads. We're looking at a whole new series of episodes this season to understand why and how our lives look the way they do. Why does your memory drift so much? Why is it so hard to keep a secret? When should you not trust your intuition?
Why do brains so easily fall for magic tricks? And why do they love conspiracy theories? I'm hitting these questions and hundreds more because the more we know about what's running under the hood, the better we can steer our lives.
Join me weekly to explore the relationship between your brain and your life by digging into unexpected questions. Listen to Inner Cosmos with David Eagleman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. As they grew into teenagers, like many girls, Talisha and Hannah Mae would do each other's hair and makeup and have fun just driving around.
Me and Hannah Mae. Like, the Long Destination Drive was no idea where we was going, just listening to music. What kind of music did she like? She was mainly a country girl. Other than that, she liked Brian Church, I think is his name. She was basically a country girl. When she was in her Jeep, she liked to go out and she liked to go money. And tell me about Dana. What kind of aunt was she? She would take us all clothes shopping for school and stuff when school time came around. Your kids are young. Do they know a
about your great aunt and what happened? - I actually have a book I made in memory of them. It's like a photo album book. I figured why not keep their memory alive with the children? When I was pregnant with Cherokee, Hannah had actually done a gender reveal with me. She'd done my pictures. And then right before I gave birth to Cherokee, she had also done my maternity picture.
Dana was one of the first ones I told that I was pregnant with Cherokee. She was so excited and she kept telling me, oh, you're having a girl. I was like, Dana, I don't know yet. I had went into labor with Cherokee on the 8th of March and then I didn't have her until the 9th.
Aunt Dana was there the whole time. She paced the floors and she was like, "Is she ready yet?" Her and Hannah Mae was there. When Aunt Dana first saw Cherokee, she started crying at first and she looked at me and she was like, "She's so beautiful." After we brought her home from the hospital, she would always want Cherokee to come out and take naps with her before she went to work and she wanted to do pictures with Cherokee.
She was born in 2015 and then Hannah was born not even a month after they were killed. When I went into labor with Hannah, I looked at my mom and I said, "I wish Aunt Anna was here because, you know, she was there for the first baby. She would have wanted to be there for the second." After I had delivered Hannah, I ended up crying because I kept looking at her and I kept telling mom, I was like, "I want to be happy, but I'm also kind of sad because, you know, it's not even been a month yet and we had lost family members."
How do you deal with that or reconcile with wanting to remember but also wanting to live your life? When I'm with the girls, I try to teach them stuff that, like, Aunt Dana would have taught them as well. Cherokee, she knows that if we go to the cemetery, Aunt Dana's there, and she'll ask, "Can we go see Aunt Dana, Mommy?" And then we'll take her to see the grave. We took her just a couple weeks ago.
How do you think the Manley, Roden, Gilley families will be different now that all this has happened? When it first happened, we was all really close with each other. And after the year started going up, the only other time we gather is when we want to do a balloon release or a candle lighting for another year of them being dead.
Jeff asked Talisha if there was anything she could learn from this terrible tragedy, and she was reminded of advice that her cousin Hannah Mae gave her. I don't go by words. I watch their actions. Hannah would teach me before she was murdered. She would tell me, you can't trust their words because their words can always be broken. She's like, trust their actions.
What do you try to take away from Dana as you're a mom now? She would take in kids that wasn't even hers. So everybody tells me that I'm just like Aunt Dana. Cherokee, she's usually a very playful girl.
She's like running around playing. There was one day we was all sitting outside at night. We was around a campfire and she looked at us and she said, Mom, I miss Aunt Dana and I wish she was here. So I looked at Cherokee and I pointed up at the stars. I said, you see that bright star right there, the brightest one in the sky? She said, yeah. I said, that's Aunt Dana watching over you.
While clearly the rodents enjoy a strong sense of family, there are some dark things that have happened to generations of the rodents that can't be ignored.
I wonder about, you hear the term generational trauma. What is your take on generational trauma and how it affects your family? The saddest part of this is that only in the later years have we began to even to realize generational trauma. For people of that generation, it was never considered trauma. It was just considered life.
I know that's a sad thing to say, but it was just considered being able to live through, to fight through. And these days we really do understand trauma so much better. But I have to believe that in those days, what it really meant was, as sad as it is to say, I think that type of trauma, giving from that generation on, really makes people stronger in a way. The survival instinct is just within this family.
Here again, Stephanie and Jeff. Generational trauma is trauma that isn't just experienced by one person, but extends from one generation to the next.
And now everyone is susceptible to generational trauma, but there are specific populations that are more vulnerable due to their histories. And two of those buckets are poverty and violence, which based on what we've been told about the rodent family history, it seems that they would be susceptible to this type of trauma. Based on our further research, dealing with generational trauma is best dealt with through counseling. I recently spoke to a psychiatrist who said that the rodents were really emblematic of generational trauma. And...
They shared a very famous example of what that could mean. And there was an experiment conducted by scientists on mice in a lab. And the scientists would basically spray perfume near mice and then shock the mice. And they would repeat that on a regular basis. They would spray their perfume, shock the mice, spray their perfume, shock the mice. And they would do that.
And then sure enough, eventually, even without shocking them, they would just spray the perfume and the mouse would...
physically respond as though it had been shocked. Perhaps even more interestingly, those mice eventually had babies of their own. And guess what? When the scientists sprayed those mice with the perfume, they too would physically react like they were being shocked, even though they weren't. This would be an example of how trauma and sorrow can literally be passed down generationally on a cellular level, as if it becomes part of our DNA.
Let's stop here for another break. Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind.
Stories about regaining a sense of safety, a handle on reality after your entire world is flipped upside down from unbelievable romantic betrayals. The love that was so real for me was always just a game for him. To betrayals in your own family. When I think about my dad, oh, well, he is a sociopath. Financial betrayal.
This is not even the part where he steals millions of dollars. And life or death deceptions. She's practicing how she's going to cry when the police calls her after they kill me. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm John Walzak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. Come on.
In 2001, police say I killed my family. First mom, then the kids. And rigged my house to explode. In a quiet suburb. This is the Beverly Hills of the Valley. Before escaping into the wilderness. There was sleet and hail and snow coming down. They found my wife's SUV. Right on the reservation boundary. And my dog flew. All I could think of is him and the sniper me out of some tree.
But not me. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. For two years. They won't tell you anything. I've traveled the nation. I'm going down in the cave. Tracking down clues. They were thinking that I picked him up and took him somewhere. If you keep asking me this, I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Searching for Robert Fisher. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world.
Do you recognize my voice? Join an exploding house, the hunt, family annihilation today and a disappearing act. Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your favorite shows. Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio. I spent almost a decade researching right wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters.
But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask. I've collected the stories of hundreds of aspiring little Hitlers of the suburbs, from the Nazi cop who tried to join ISIS, to the National Guardsman plotting to assassinate the Supreme Court, to the Satanist soldier who tried to get his own unit blown up in Turkey. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil. They're just some weird guy. And you can laugh. Honestly, I think you have to.
Seeing these guys for what they are doesn't mean they're not a threat. It's a survival strategy. So join me every Thursday for a look under the mask at the weird little guys trying to destroy America. Listen to Weird Little Guys on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hi, I'm David Eagleman from the podcast Inner Cosmos, which recently hit the number one science podcast in America. I'm a neuroscientist at Stanford, and I've spent my career exploring the three-pound universe in our heads. We're looking at a whole new series of episodes this season to understand why and how our lives look the way they do. Why does your memory drift so much? Why is it so hard to keep a secret? When should you not trust your intuition?
Why do brains so easily fall for magic tricks? And why do they love conspiracy theories? I'm hitting these questions and hundreds more because the more we know about what's running under the hood, the better we can steer our lives. Join me weekly to explore the relationship between your brain and your life by digging into unexpected questions.
Listen to Inner Cosmos with David Eagleman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Here again, our anonymous Roden family member talking about Chris Sr.'s mother, Geneva. They will come through when this is long gone and we're remembering back. They will come out on the other side with their chins up.
No matter what happens, no matter who's locked up for what, no matter who goes to prison, Geneva will walk with her head up and she will still be smiling. She will smile. And I can only imagine the pain and the toll this took on her, you know, with what happened, but she will survive. That's just in her bloodline. She will come through this. I don't think there's anything that any of us could learn from this. It's just an awful, terrible thing. How would you want your family to be remembered? What's the legacy?
Being remembered a certain way probably isn't as high on the list for my family or my cousin. We would just like to know that we did the best we could while we were here. And if that means some type of legacy was left, then fantastic. But if it doesn't, it still doesn't matter. We carved our place out of this world. We know within ourselves that, you know, we are survivors and for lack of a better term, we are fighters. You know, we will fight for what we believe.
And that is in family. In current times, the only thing, and this is sad to say, that the world even knows the name Roden would be because of a terrible tragedy. I can say absolutely that we don't want them known for just that. Have you been following the court cases or the legal proceedings
And if so, what's your take on them? My take on it is that this family was just a strange and terrible small cult-like family. This is just me, my own personal opinion. And no matter what, I feel like they were guided by one in the family. Now, I'm not saying this person made them do it. I'm saying they were guided by that person and would do absolutely anything for this person. And somehow it went from...
not killing people to killing people.
And I don't know what happened during that. I know that during the plea, when two of them pled out, one claiming that he didn't shoot anyone and the other one, I'm not even sure what he's claiming. It's going to be pretty interesting of what happens there. But I just believe it was a small cult family that just got ideas flowing in the kitchen with baskets on the wall. And these ideas just kept going and going and going until there was no turning back. Mm-hmm.
Do you think Angela Wagner was kind of the one at the helm of all this? I feel like that. And I could absolutely be wrong, but I feel like she was that type that she would be the one to just kind of corner them in. And, you know, here's what we're doing, guys. And this is what we need to do, guys. And then, you know, and that comes from what I've read and, and,
Right. That does seem to be what we're hearing.
And do you feel like justice is going to be served? Is there such a thing as justice in this situation? I am a great believer in justice. I really am. I absolutely feel that justice will be served and I believe wholeheartedly in our justice system. I'm not hoping for anything one way or the other. I'm not hoping for this sentence or that sentence. I have faith in our justice system and I believe in the end, the powers that be will
we'll see that justice is done. This was a family, and they had every right to walk on this earth with the rest of us. And someone took that from them. And everyone needs to know that these people lived, and these people had lives, and they loved, and they worked.
And they are so much more than what we're going to see in the years to come. And it can't be helped. I know that the trial and the people on trial will be in the limelight. And that just is as it has to be. But it's very important to me that the world knows that they were alive and they were living and they were loved and they had children. I just don't want it forgotten that these were people. More on that next time. If you're enjoying The Pikes and Massacre, listen to our other hit series, Crazy in Love.
New episodes air every Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts. For more information and case photos, follow us on Instagram at kt underscore studios. The Pyton Massacre is produced by Stephanie Lidecker, Jeff Shane, Chris Graves, and me, Courtney Armstrong.
Editing and sound design by Jeff Twa. Music by Jared Aston. Audio mixing by Ken Novak. The Piketon Massacre is a production of KT Studios and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, the host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm John Walzak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. Why not?
In 2001, police say I killed my family and rigged my house to explode before escaping into the wilderness. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. Join me. I'm going down in the cave. As I track down clues. I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Hunting. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world. Robert Fisher. Do you recognize my voice? Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.
Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio. I've spent almost a decade researching right-wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters. But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil. They're just some weird guy. So join me every Thursday for a look under the mask at the weird little guys trying to destroy America.
Listen to Weird Little Guys on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, and welcome to Haunting, Purgatory's premiere podcast. I'm your host, Teresa. We'll be bringing you different ghost stories each week, straight from the person who experienced it firsthand. Some will be unsettling, some unnerving, some even downright terrifying. But all of them will be totally true.
Listen to Haunting on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.