In Their Own Words
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Life is happening around us. So many things to do, places to go. If you switch off, you're out of it. But if you switch on, you're part of it. Subscribe to The Washington Post today at washingtonpost.com slash iHeart. Switch on. The Washington Post. I kept seeing helicopters and cops passing us, going back the other way. And I seen my grandma. And her grandma told me she was gone. I just got froze.

Angela ran out of the Peterson Road house to chase Tabitha with a shotgun. Jake and George followed, and Hannah was told by Jake not to leave the house or he would chop off her legs. This is The Pikedon Massacre, Return to Pike County. Season 4, Episode 10, In Their Own Words. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at KT Studios, along with Stephanie Lidecker and Jeff Shane.

It's been a revealing, gut-wrenching trial thus far. While the jury has heard reams of incriminating evidence against Jake Wagner, we must remember that Jake, who's already pled guilty, is not the one on trial. Thus far, the testimony against George Wagner himself has been far more scant. There's no DNA evidence that puts George at the Rodin's homes on the night of April 21, 2016. There's also no evidence that George was implicated in Jake's custody battle with Hannah Mae Rodin.

On the other hand, the defense has thus far failed to produce an alibi for where George was during the night of the killings. It's important to note that George Wagner IV, along with his father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, deny any wrongdoing and have pleaded not guilty to all charges. Here's Stephanie and Jeff.

It appears that Angie Knepper, the special prosecutor, is really telling us a story right now, painting a picture about the lives of the Wagners, how they were incredibly enmeshed together. But so far, nothing very specific that implicates George specifically to that night.

What the prosecution is trying to do is really paint the picture that all four of them were in on this together from the start. And look, we've heard a lot of different stories about the Wagner family. They technically operated like a mob or like a cult and that Angela Wagner was very controlling and had a very odd relationship with both of her boys, specifically George.

But again, those might paint a messy picture of a family. But does that mean that George is guilty of mass murder? I have to assume there's more evidence to come. That kind of piggybacks on a point I want to bring up, which is just how many witnesses there are. As we have seen, the state is really telling a full story from start to finish, which includes a lot of people that don't on the surface have anything to do with the actual night in question.

I spoke to legal analyst and expert Mike Allen about this, and he said that the amount of witnesses is completely up to the prosecution. They can have three or 300. It's all up to them. And all they have to do is provide a witness list to the judge and defense during the discovery process. There has to be some level of jury fatigue, right? So 300 witnesses would be pretty extreme.

if we're telling a peripheral story. Judge Deering did have to approve each witness, so he clearly thinks that something about it is acceptable enough to be allowed in the courtroom. It's just a really interesting spot to be at in the trial, where is it one thing to hear bad things and to know that, frankly, the Wagners may have just been very bad people? Is that enough, or do we need to have more evidence specifically putting George at the scene? I'm so curious about how that plays out.

The following testimony digs deeper into the Wagner clan and also uncovers testimony that, for the first time, shows that George was, in fact, in his family's thrall. Good afternoon. How are you? Good. Can you please state your name and why don't you go ahead and spell your first name and spell your last name? Corey Allen Holdren. C-O-R-E-Y H-O-L-D-R-E-N. Corey, how old are you? I'll be 30 next month. 29.

And can you tell us where you live? Piketon. Piketon? Yep. Okay. Corey Holdren was Hannah Mae Roden's boyfriend at the time of her death. When they began dating, Hannah Mae was pregnant with her daughter, who she shared with ex-boyfriend Charlie Gilley. Corey Holdren committed to Hannah because he wanted a family and was in love with Hannah Mae. She was in love with me. I was in love with her. I mean, she was the best thing that ever happened to me. Really was. In our relationship, we never fought. She helped me.

Through everything. And can you tell us, at the time that you started seeing her, did you have an addiction problem? Yeah. I was a drug addict. Okay. And to pain pills. And she laid by my side, sat on my side through the whole withdrawals and all the everything. And nobody would do that. Nobody does that unless you love somebody. And she did not go through it at all. You know.

And did you make a commitment to her unborn child as well? Yeah. Because while she wasn't with Jake, she was separated from him. And she said it wasn't his. She told me who it was. It was Charlie Gillies, which was Hannah's brother. I was dying for a family, you know what I mean? And I told him that if he agrees to step back and just let me, you know, don't bother us, that I would take care of her and I would name her and

So I did. I named her . I cut her umbilical cord. I was the first one to hold her. So you stayed with her throughout her pregnancy, and you were actually at the hospital when she gave birth? Yeah, until the day she got water. Actually, they were induced. Yeah, induced her, yeah. And did you also go to some of her appointments with her prior to that? Yeah, all of them.

According to Corey Holdren, Hannah Mae was also a devoted mother to the little girl she shared with Jake Wagner. Corey continues speaking about when Jake Wagner brought the toddler he shared with Hannah Mae to see her newborn sister in the hospital. During this visit, Jake implied that the baby could be his because she had a toe shaped like him and his family members.

make a fuss about it or anything. He was just oddly different though. Dark hair, dark black hair. Like, I don't know, he was just different. He's got that older and everything. Like, it was his dog, Kitty. I don't know. He thought it was his, maybe. Okay. And do you remember any comments that he made about any of the physical characteristics? Something about her toe. Like,

Like something that goes with Wagner thing. I don't know what was wrong with it. I didn't see nothing wrong with it. Commented something about her toe being a Wagner thing. Yeah. We're going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment.

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Switch on The Washington Post. When Corey Holdren learned from Kenneth Roden's daughter Kendra that the love of his life, Hannah Mae Roden, was killed, he was in shock. I got up. I was around eight. Maybe I was older than that. I went to my sister's, and me and her wife got in her truck, and we went to Coral Lumber.

Well, like I kept seeing like helicopters and like cops and like crazy like passing us, going back the other way. I didn't think nothing of it, you know what I mean? I went to the quarter, we got to quarter lumber and by the time we got there and pulled in, Kendra had called me and said that something happened that I needed to get to her house now. She wouldn't tell me really what happened. She just said they're gone, I don't know what that meant, I don't know.

So I had my sister's wife turn around and go there. So we went down, instead of down 32, we went down 772 the way, the back side, you know. And at that time, I got on her road. They stopped us right by her brother's house. And I seen her grandma. And her grandma told me she was gone. I just kind of froze. I didn't feel anything. I didn't understand it yet.

Corey explained that he, Hannah Mae, and Kendra all went fishing together before the night of the murders. It was a rainy afternoon, and Hannah was all smiles as she reeled in a big catfish. But the mood soured when Jake Wagner texted Hannah to see if he could watch their daughter for the night. Here's Anjanette Levy, reporter for Law & Crime.

Hannah Mae had just given birth to her newborn daughter and apparently wanted to get out of the house. So they had someone watch the newborn and they were out fishing. And Jake Wagner, actually, she said, which I thought was pretty stunning. Kendra said that Jake texted Hannah Mae and offered to keep. How chilling is that? Here again, Stephanie and Jeff.

We've heard a lot about Corey Holdren over the years and have never personally connected to him. We have reached out over the years, but respectfully, we don't want to push too hard. So his testimony is so interesting to me.

First of all, we've always heard that he is so kind and so nice and so sweet and was so in love with Hannah Mae. So you can only imagine the destruction that has come for him thereafter. We've heard over the years multiple times this story about Jake Wagner visiting Hannah Mae in the hospital with her newborn baby. But to hear it firsthand with Corey Holdren on the stand in the courtroom is a much different experience.

Following Corey Holdren, another witness came to the stand and offered explosive testimony, this time very focused on George Wagner IV. It was the first and a critically important juncture in the trial where George's character came under scrutiny. The witness is Tabitha Clayton, George's ex-wife. She had a highly volatile and traumatic history with the accused murderer. Like Jake and Hannah, Tabitha and George were embroiled in their own custody battle over their son.

Tabitha and George met when Tabitha's mother was working for the Wagner matriarch Frederica at her Flying W farm. The pair married in 2012, had a son in the summer of 2013, and lived with Angela, Jake, and Billy Wagner. Tabitha and George ultimately divorced in 2015. Tabitha explains how being with George came with a litany of rules and restrictions that came down from Angela Wagner. Life was taxing.

Here's Special Prosecutor Angie Canepa examining Tabitha on the stand. If you could just tell us what the family dynamics were there when you lived with the Wagners. Very strange and controlling. Okay, so you said previously that you were not allowed to visit your family and your family was not permitted to visit you, correct? Yes. And who made those determinations? It was Angela's house, so it was her rules.

And so are you saying that it was Angela's choices? Yes. Okay. And did George go along with those choices? Yes. And can you tell us, you said Angela's house, Angela's rules, did that apply to anything other than just your family coming and going? It applied to basically everything. So tell us about that. Cooking, cleaning, laundry. And what do you mean by that? It all had to be done...

Angela Wagner had a ban on certain types of sex that should be allowed within George and Tabitha's marriage. In contrast, according to some, she also crossed boundaries with her son George. According to Tabitha, every night Angela Wagner would kick Tabitha out of the bedroom she shared with George so that Angela could have some alone time with her son. She would scratch his back while they caught up on the day.

What were the rules that Angela had for the types of sexual relations you could engage in with your husband? You wasn't allowed to give blowjobs because you'd go to hell. And you had to only have sex to have children. And is that something that she said to you? She said it to me and George both. Okay. When you were together? Yes. Where would you be when those conversations would occur? Usually at the kitchen table or in the bedroom. Whose bedroom?

- Georgia's. - And would you stay in Georgia's bedroom? - As long as I was allowed to, yes. - So when you say as long as you were allowed to, tell me what you're talking about. - Well, towards the end of the night, she would usually have me leave so she could sit there and scratch his back and talk about the day. - So Angela would come into the room that you shared with your husband? - Yes. - And she would ask you to leave and then she would scratch his back and talk about the day? - Yes.

How frequent of an occurrence was that? Every night. And after she was done with that, would you return to the room? Yes. After you had your son, where would he sleep? Most of the time he would sleep with Angela and Billy. And again, was that your choice? No. Where did you want your son to sleep? With me in my bed, or at least in the crib that was bought for him. And where was that crib located? Next to my bed.

And who made the decision that he would sleep with Angela and Billy instead of with you? George and Angela. Can you tell us, or I guess I should say, had you ever shared with George that you had been sexually abused as a child? I did, but only because he had found out by somebody else. Can you tell us, what was George's reaction to that?

He was mad. He said he was going to go kill him. And I told him no, and I sat on him until he calmed down.

The Wagners' rules tightened around Tabitha after they learned she had cheated on George. From Tabitha's point of view, her infidelity was a reaction to the family's suffocating way of life. Was there a time when you were unfaithful to George after you were married? Yes. Okay. And was it during the time that you were working at Crystal Springs? Yes. Did George and the rest of the family find out about this? Yes. You ultimately told them? Yes.

And at that point, did the restrictions in your life get even more severe? Yes. Tell us what happened then. I had gotten let go from my job. George took my phone from me and factory reset it and gave it to his mom. I wasn't allowed to answer the house phone or check the mail or go outside by myself. And when you...

informed them of this at that time were you pregnant yes so you remained at the home with the Wagners yes and then you remain there until approximately a year after your son was born correct yes did you feel when you were there that you could parent your child in the way that you wanted to no tell us about that every night

Before we went to bed, I would be made to go take a nap while Angela played with my son. So again, just more of her spending time with your child that you wanted to spend time with. Yes. Okay. Did you ever tell George or have any discussions with him about wanting to have your own place and no longer living with the extended family? Yes. Okay. And what was his response?

Here's Stephanie. We met Tabitha's sister and her mom years ago, and they'd always painted this picture about what life was like for Tabitha. We've also reached out to her over the years. This is a very big moment hearing her testimony for the first time.

Now, finally hearing from her, I mean, imagine she's facing the person who is on trial, her ex-husband. She's going to have to lock eyes with him and really tell some stories, perhaps for the very first time. Again, it asks the question, if Angela Wagner had a very strange relationship with her sons.

We've always heard this over the years, that she would cuddle with them and she would alienate the women who came into their lives, a.k.a. Tabitha, also Hannah May Rodin. What does that mean? Does that matter? If George didn't commit these murders, then none of this matters whatsoever. He was perhaps a bad husband, but again, that doesn't make him a murderer.

But if he did do it and is convicted, this certainly paints a very clear picture of a destructive and dysfunctional home. But none of it really guarantees that George was there or that George was a trigger puller. Let's stop here for another break.

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One night things spun out of control after Tabitha didn't do the dishes that Angela had told her to do.

George Wagner turned physically abusive, Tabitha says. This is the first testimony we've heard about him being violent. Tell us, Tabitha, we have talked a little bit about how long you stayed there. What made you leave when you left? Me and George were in an argument and he slapped me. Okay. And if you can tell us, first of all, do you recall when that happened? A couple of months after my son's first birthday. Okay. Okay.

And when was your son born again? Was that July of? 2013. You said a few months after his first birthday? Yes. And can you tell us what led up to that argument? Me not cleaning the kitchen after Angela had made lunch. After Angela had done what? Made lunch. Okay. And so tell us about that. How did you know you were supposed to do that?

She told me to get it cleaned up while her and Hannah went to pick up a toy for the kids. And did you do that? No. Why not? Because my son had woke up, so I laid with him to take a nap. So he could take a nap. Okay. Was your son already napping at the time that Angela asked you to do that? Okay. And where were the rest of the people? Where was Jake and George at that time? They were, I think Jake was with Billy and

driving the truck and George was building the shed that is beside the house. Okay. Angela and Hannah come back and see that I didn't clean up the mess. So what happens then? Then me and Angela start to argue. Did you explain to her what had happened? Yes. And what happened then? George didn't like that I was yelling at his mother.

How did you know he didn't like that? What happened? He came in and started smacking me with a belt. And where in the house were you at that time? In the kitchen doorway. And what happened then? We went to the bedroom. And when you say we, who do you mean? Me and George. And what happened there? He objected, Your Honor. I object. Oh, another objection. I object. Thank you.

What happened in the bedroom? I was going to go out and sit on the porch so I could calm down and not be so angry. So you wanted to go outside to just be by yourself, calm down, and not be as angry? Yes. Okay. Were you permitted to go outside? No. How were you not permitted to go outside? George stood in front of the door and wouldn't let me. And what did you do at that point?

I bit him and tried to rip his nuts off. When you say you bit him, where did you bite him? On his arm, up towards his armpit. Okay, and why did you bite that area of his arm? What was he doing at that point? He had his arm against the door and not let me go through it. Did he let you pass at that point? He grabbed ahold of his nuts so his arm moved, so that's whenever I ran out the door. And then what did you do?

I started walking through the yard and then George and Angela came outside to try to tell me to come back inside. And what happened outside? I told them that I was not going to go back inside, that I was going to leave. And so Angela threw a board at me and then told George that she was going to go inside and get a gun. When you say she threw a board at you, what kind of a board? A two-by-four.

And both Angela and George were outside with you at that point? Yes. Okay. And then Angela said she's going to go get a gun? Yes. At any point outside, did George have physical contact with you? Yeah. Before the argument got really worse, we were outside and we were arguing and he told me I needed to stop screaming or he was going to smack me and...

So I screamed louder and so he smacked me. And where did he smack you? In the face. And then what was your response to that? I told him that he just signed his divorce papers. That he just signed his divorce papers because he smacked you? Yes. So when Angela says she's going to go get a gun, what do you do?

I continue going out the yard and through the fence and I hid underneath of George's truck. And to your knowledge, where were George or Angela at that point? I assume they were going in to get whichever gun they chose. More on that next time. For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at kt underscore studios.

Please welcome our Fife County Dogwood Festival Queen,

Who could have killed eight family members in one night?

I lost my best friend and I will never be the same because of that day. Four crime scenes, no DNA, no witnesses. The killer left those children laying in their mother's blood. The word that comes to mind is overkill. Who was the mastermind? I'm telling you, if they frame us, I'm not sitting in prison. One thing I learned...

The smaller the town, the bigger the secrets. Be sure to watch our upcoming documentary, The Pike County Murders, A Family Massacre, premiering on NBC Universal's Oxygen Network and also streaming on Peacock this Thanksgiving Day weekend, November 24th and November 25th. Please check your local listings, and our hearts are with the Rodens and the Gilley families.

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