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Grammarly. Easier said, done. Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, the host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind.
Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm John Walzak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. Come on.
In 2001, police say I killed my family and rigged my house to explode before escaping into the wilderness. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. Join me. I'm going down in the cave. As I track down clues. I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Hunting. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world. Robert Fisher. Do you recognize my voice? Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.
Welcome to the Pikedon Massacre, a production of iHeartRadio and KT Studios. In April 2016, when eight members of the Rodin family were murdered in their homes, the media descended on the sleepy town of Pikedon, Ohio. The community clearly shaken after this morning's multiple homicides. People in this small community being told to be on alert tonight.
As news of the unthinkable and gruesome killings spread, the small rural community is left reeling and rumors begin swirling. Discoveries of the murder scenes are now advancing the theory that killings could be related to a drug cartel. Authorities aren't commenting on whether they have any potential suspects. Everybody thinks all the bad stuff happens in the big cities, but the devil works at it everywhere.
But in the aftermath of the arrests of six members of the Wagner family, attention turns to the very people responsible for the investigation. There was this belief among almost everybody I talked to about incompetence when it came to law enforcement in that county.
There's nobody watching the watchers in these small communities. And in many cases, that can lead to major corruption. And the dark secrets of a once quiet town are slowly brought to light. There's been a lot of murders here that have not been solved. But if I say what I think, I could probably end up in the river. This is The Pikedon Massacre. Episode 5, Air and Opportunity. Air and Opportunity
In the days after the killings, the Rodin murders became an international headline. And it was a sensational story. A series of murders, multiple potential motives, all taking place in a small town in Ohio. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a TV producer at KT Studios where I work with Stephanie Lidecker and Jeff Shane. We've been following the case for a long time and through the course of our investigation learned that the town of Piketon, Ohio has its own story to tell.
Journalist Jeff Winkler wrote about the story for the website The Outline. He told me about his impressions of the initial reporting coming out of Piketon. It was a big media story for about two weeks. And, you know, everybody from all over came to cover it all over the world. And a lot of people had been similarly executed in the middle of Appalachia. And no one knew what was going on. I
I mean, I grew up in the Ozarks in Arkansas, and these are people I feel familiar with. You know, when I go up to New York, California, that's like a Disneyland, and it's a strange, good-wildering place. These areas and folks like this are not wildering to me in the same way that they were to the people who came down and covered the story originally. You get a lot of talk of
Look at these people smoking and, you know, wearing camo and, you know, a lot of gawking. You know, it was just these sort of quotes from sad, sort of backwoods people is how they're perceived. And that's just not where I come from. But I think this thing that stood out for me was just how human everyone was. Pyton resident Angie Montgomery shared her view of the media coverage with producer Jeff Shane.
How do you think Pike County in general, I guess, has been portrayed in the media? I don't think they've been very kind to us. I've seen a lot of reports where they've called us uneducated, hillbillies, just dumb. They think we're dumb. They think we're a bunch of inbred. I've actually seen that in some reports, and it's sad.
While it's easy for some to view the town of Piketon through this kind of provincial, almost stereotypical lens, it's not what we found when we visited the area. It's pretty far removed from the big cities of Ohio. It's about an hour and a half south from Columbus, an hour and a half east of Cincinnati, and just under 30 minutes from the Ohio River, which basically separates southern Ohio from northeastern Kentucky.
There's a Walmart. There's a restaurant. There used to be this great dive bar that has since closed, I believe. And look, for the 2,200 residents, Pikedon is home. Native Barbara and Jeff actually spoke a bit about that when we were there. Pikedon's considered a village, and it is just a small little town that has a grocery store and a pizza shop and gas stations there.
And there's a tire shop. People sit and talk at the gas station. Wherever they go, people know each other. And they just sit and talk. You know, at the tire shop, you're waiting for an oil change or whatever. You just sit there and chat with your neighbor or whoever happens to come in. You probably know who it is. You know somebody everywhere. Or you know somebody that knows somebody everywhere. Anywhere you go.
I imagine that is probably like sometimes kind of enjoyable and then other times it's probably pretty maddening. Yeah, sometimes. People know when I spend the day in my pool or when I skip a day. If there's a day goes by I don't get in my pool. Next time I see someone else I say, "How come you weren't in your pool the other day?" So it's crazy.
The majority of people we spoke with depicted Piked in this way. Small town USA, everyone knows everyone, nobody ever locked their doors growing up. But when we started to pull back the curtain, it was clear that Piked had harbored some dark secrets. Secrets that didn't start with the rodents.
It seems like there's like two sides of Pikedon, which is one is like the blue collar hard workers who, you know, want to raise their families the right way. And yet somehow something horrible still did happen to this town. I think it's like every town. You're going to find that wherever you go. There's going to be the ugly part and Pikedon has it.
Jeff spoke to Stephane, a former Pikedon resident who had recently left town. She shared Barbara's sentiments about the community. I wanted to ask you, so you now, you're in Florida and you're away from Pikedon and all of this, but it still seems like it's very much a part of your DNA, right? I haven't been home since July, the year before last, since 2018. And I just, I don't know if I'll ever really like go back and live there ever again.
You know, if you look back through the history of Piketon, you know, there's quite a bit of things that just happen that, you know, there's no explanation for, get swept under the rug. I don't know. I think there's just more evil there than just what happened to those eight. Stephane's remarks left us unsettled.
But when we followed up with investigative reporter Jody Barr, he seemed to corroborate her thoughts with some troubling stories he had heard during his time covering the Roden case. This was national news the day after, a few days after it happened. But, you know, as it typically happens with news cycles, you know, the national folks move on to the next big story. We were left with that.
And we would get emails and constant questions and phone calls about new information. Is there anything to know? And there was nothing to know. So my boss came to me and said, hey, can you go over and start digging into this and see if there's anything at all that we could find out? I was in Pike County a lot. And I kept getting stories about other homicides in Pike County. And I thought, man, if there were that many homicides in a county this small, man, there could be something here that we don't yet know. And it's worth taking a look.
Through his research, Jody discovered that there have been at least three recent cases in Pike County involving multiple homicides. Cases like the January 2016 murders of Candace Newsome and her teenage daughter, Christina. They were both shot execution style in their home.
Police finally did arrest the Newsom's neighbor for their murders in 2019. Neighbor Christian R. Davis was indicted by a grand jury but did not plea nor has he been convicted. But there was plenty of chatter on social media, none of which can be confirmed, mentioning the possibility of an accomplice to the murders, still at large. Candace Newsom's sister Darla has even spoken publicly. She thinks that her sister and niece's murder may be related to the Rodens, stating that they ran in the same circles.
What struck me about Candace and Christina and was just the fact, the similarities between like just the idea that in the middle of the night, these people were gunned down in their homes while they slept. Just, it is striking, you know, before even reading any other details, just hearing that when you're researching the Roden case, you're like, well, that's weird. You know, that's 15 minutes away. It's the same exact style of murder. Yes. And it was just so odd that you had that type of crime inhabiting in a place like that.
Then, in April 2016, just weeks before the rodents were killed, Douglas Eatman and Carolyn Ann Tomlinson were shot execution-style in their home.
According to Jody Barr, one detail of the crime struck a familiar chord. A double homicide, four children left alive. This is very similar to the rodent case. I mean, again, it's a striking coincidence that in the same area this is happening, in the same month, you know, the same month and year that the rodents were murdered, this has also happened. That's what led us down the path of even looking at these cases because we had heard that there were other people who were shot, no overnight execution style, in their homes.
When you're looking at the Roden case, and then you see these other cases in a county that small, you start asking yourself, what the hell is going on? Because this, it doesn't make sense that this is happening there unless there is some sort of common denominator. And it's still hard to believe today that there were these types of murders that took place in a county so small with so few people living in it. I mean, you don't hear about that in big cities. And you sit back and think,
And you wonder to yourself, what is going on? I mean, why is this happening? Fortunately, police arrested Douglas Eatman's uncle, Charles, and his cousin, James Allen, on suspicion of Douglas and Carolyn's murder. Each faces 20 to 50 years or life in prison with enhanced sentencing for capital offenses also a possibility. The pair were indicted but have not pled or been convicted. The case is ongoing. ♪
According to investigators, it was a drug-related killing. The motive for Candace and Christina Newsom's murders, however, remains unclear. But beyond the methods of these killings, there's another thing that Jody told us about that ties them all together. In some cases, people get away with it for extended periods of time. Candace Newsom and her teenage daughter, Christina, it took four years before investigators charged a neighbor and family friend of
with murder in that. And that's four years. And the alleged perpetrator in that case is what a next door neighbor. And it took four years to piece that together. It's just, you wonder in Pike County, if people were getting good at committing crimes and potentially getting away with it.
One case that remains unsolved is the 2006 murder of 34-year-old Curtis Francis and 30-year-old Jennifer Burgett. Kurt Francis and Jennifer Burgett, you know, they were both shot and killed in their beds in their homes in the middle of the night. And, you know, when I'm looking through these incident reports of these murders, I go, whoa, this sounds very similar to the Roden case.
two people shot in their bed in their homes in the middle of the night. And I thought this is one we need to pursue, but no one would talk. We couldn't find out any information. All the search warrants were sealed at the courthouse and there's absolutely no arrest. 10 years later, there's nothing. Here we are today, still nothing. We're in a dead end and it may never be solved. And unfortunately, there are other cases like that there that just didn't get the attention.
We're going to take a quick break here. We'll be back in a moment. Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind.
Stories about regaining a sense of safety, a handle on reality after your entire world is flipped upside down from unbelievable romantic betrayals. The love that was so real for me was always just a game for him. To betrayals in your own family. When I think about my dad, oh, well, he is a sociopath. Financial betrayal.
This is not even the part where he steals millions of dollars. And life or death deceptions. She's practicing how she's going to cry when the police calls her after they kill me. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm John Walzak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. Come on.
In 2001, police say I killed my family. First mom, then the kids. And rigged my house to explode. In a quiet suburb. This is the Beverly Hills of the Valley. Before escaping into the wilderness. There was sleet and hail and snow coming down. They found my wife's SUV. Right on the reservation boundary. And my dog flew. All I could think of is him and the sniper me out of some tree.
But not me. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. For two years. They won't tell you anything. I've traveled the nation. I'm going down in the cave. Tracking down clues. They were thinking that I picked him up and took him somewhere. If you keep asking me this, I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Searching for Robert Fisher. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world.
Do you recognize my voice? Join an exploding house, the hunt, family annihilation today, and a disappearing act. Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio. I've spent almost a decade researching right-wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters.
But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask. I've collected the stories of hundreds of aspiring little Hitlers of the suburbs, from the Nazi cop who tried to join ISIS, to the National Guardsman plotting to assassinate the Supreme Court, to the Satanist soldier who tried to get his own unit blown up in Turkey. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil. They're just some weird guy. And you can laugh. Honestly, I think you have to. Seeing these guys for what they are doesn't mean they're not a threat.
It's a survival strategy. So join me every Thursday for a look under the mask at the weird little guys trying to destroy America. Listen to Weird Little Guys on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's take one quick step back for a minute and really look at the Curtis Francis and Jennifer Burgett case. That's the couple who was also shot in their home while they slept in 2006.
They only lived about 15 minutes down the road from the Rodin property. 15 minutes. And to this day, that case remains unsolved. For Angie Montgomery, Curtis Francis' cousin, it remains a devastating memory without closure. She spoke to Jeff about it. I was shocked that I had never even heard of Curtis and Jennifer's case because it's egregious that this happened and it's unsolved and unsolved.
It just seems crazy that another, in such a small community, that something like this could happen again. And so what I would love to do, and maybe it would kind of be to walk through Kurt and Jenny's case and kind of explain who they were and any of the facts that you know about the case. Well, Curtis was a very hardworking, good guy. Loved his family, loved hunting and animals and fishing and all that stuff. He would help anybody, and he was very protective.
That's one word I like to use to describe him. Very protective of the people we loved. Jenny was a good girl. Always taking care of others. I think they just got messed up with the wrong people. The wrong people Angie's referring to are local drug dealers. Most of the crime that happens around here, like car thefts and breaking and entering and things like that, is from drugs.
So you feel like you know who did it? Oh, yes.
When Angie says law enforcement, she's talking about the Pike County Sheriff's Office, the same agency heavily involved in conducting the Rodent Murder Investigation.
In 2016, a plumber discovered a well that had seemed to have been mysteriously hidden with rocks and dirt. It was on a property that, according to eyewitness statements, was the last place Curtis Francis was seen on the night of his murder. The Pike County Sheriff's Office was called in to investigate.
Officers lowered a plumber's drain camera into the well and discovered what appeared to be burned clothes and a gun. With a potential murder weapon lying just 30 feet down a well, the Pike County Sheriff's Office decided to use a curious tactic to recover the gun.
They called in a fire truck to pump water into the well to try and push the firearm back up out of the well shaft so investigators could get their hands on it.
It did not go as planned. They blew the water down the well, which in turn made the ground break because of the force of, you know, a fire hose can blow the skin off of you. So when they did that, this is what they told us that happened. When they did that, it busted the ground loose. The guns went down into the ground and that they don't have the money to
or the equipment to get them out. So they hired a guy to seal the well shut. He's a welder. He welded the well shut. And that was it. I think after this fiasco with the guns in the well, when the guns were found, and how they handled that situation and handled the possible murder weapon, I think they're ashamed, and they should be.
With Curtis and Jennifer's case going cold, Angie decided to pursue the killers herself. I've actually went and got names. I went and talked to people.
Well, I'm just going to be honest with you. I've done what the police, I've tried to do what the police haven't done, which is talk to people, get information, you know, get dates, get time, get people talking. You know, oh, you seen Kurt that day? Okay, who was with him? What was his demeanor? Things like that. There's eyewitness statements. And I've tried my best to get somebody or anybody just to listen.
It's pretty cut and dry. You know, I've had a few people out of state that are like retired homicide investigators and stuff look at the case and tell me that they can't for the life of them figure out why there hasn't been an arrest date. For the town that we, you know, the size of our town, there's been a lot of murders here that have not been solved. It's ridiculous.
But if I say what I think, I could probably end up in the river.
According to Jody Barr, Angie's thoughts about the Pike County Sheriff's Office are shared by many in the community. The impression I got from the people in Pike County when I was working there covering the rodent murders, there was this belief among almost everybody I talked to about incompetence when it came to law enforcement in that county. And the lack of that sheriff's office ability to do a large-scale murder investigation and carry that through to prosecution...
And the man at the head of the Pike County Sheriff's Office is none other than Sheriff Charles Reeder. You've heard about Sheriff Reeder before. He's the officer who stated he would stop at nothing to solve the Rodents case. I've got a message for the killers. We will find you. The family and the victims will have justice one day. To a lot of people watching these news conferences, Reeder's passionate campaign for justice was admirable.
But to journalists like Jeff Winkler, Reader's determination belied his mishandling of the Rodin investigation from the very start. It was the largest mass murder in Ohio's history. And the law enforcement at the beginning, the local law enforcement, was almost comically inept to handle such a large and bloody incident. They were just, they weren't equipped to handle it from the very beginning, the investigation. And they bungled a lot of stuff right from the get-go.
Nearly a month after the bodies were found, Sheriff Reeder had key pieces of evidence, including the rodents' mobile homes and automobiles, moved to a warehouse in the nearby town of Waverly. Jody Barr was on the scene and told Jeff what he saw.
So I'm out of the warehouse where they moved these vehicles, the equipment from all the rodent properties where they moved the four mobile homes where these murders happened. There's a large fence around this huge outdoor lot, and it is full of cars and ATVs, farm equipment, backhoes, huge tractor trailers. So as a reporter with at least a small knowledge of the chain of custody of evidence, I know that
With all this evidence just, you know, 50 yards away from me that you've got to have it secured somehow. There's got to be a peace officer, someone there with a gun in a bag, who swear an oath to uphold the laws and the Constitution of the state of Ohio. They're guarding that. That was not the case. Yeah, so it's the largest criminal investigation in the state's history, right? And the main evidence is not getting watched.
There was no one in that parking lot watching that evidence. So when you drive up to a warehouse and you look and there's nothing between you and hundreds of pieces of evidence except air and opportunity, if that doesn't raise a red flag, I don't think you're doing your job. I knew at that point in time that there was something to explore here because there
potentially this evidence, if it's unguarded, they can't establish a chain of custody. This entire investigation could be jeopardized. So that's why we took them. We took Mike Allen, the former Hamilton County District Attorney. We took him to Pike County. I called him and I said, hey, I want to take you to Pike County. Here's what I found. I don't want to show you what I found yet. I just want to take you to this warehouse and you give me your impressions of what we see there through the eyes of a prosecutor.
Here's Mike Allen. Jody was on this thing like white on rice, and I went up there with him. And that's when I noticed it too. And, you know, you've got, it seems to me it was close to 30, 40, maybe even 50 vehicles that had a fence around them. Well, that's fine, but it would have taken an old man like me about 10 seconds to climb over that fence and
and take something out of one of those vehicles, plant something, put something in one of the vehicles. It just was not done right. I mean, anybody involved in law enforcement from that first week that you're at the police academy, you learn that you must preserve the evidence, and you must preserve that chain of custody of the evidence. And I don't know what, if anything, they pulled out of any of those cars, but
If I were defending this case and they tried to introduce any of that evidence, I would be all over it and I would move to have the evidence excluded because it just was not properly secured.
So Jody began preparing a report about the evidence fiasco for news station Fox 19 in Cincinnati. Soon after, Jody and his crew were approached by Sheriff Charles Reeder, who presented them with a curious offer. The sheriff's office declined to comment, but here is Jody's side of the story. He tried to make a deal with us to not air that warehouse story. And the deal was that he was going to give us this unfettered access where we could do
This first hundred hours with Charlie Reeder after he learned of the murders, if we wouldn't do this, that always, that still sits with me today. It pissed me off then because I'm like, you know, what do you think we are? We don't make deals. My photographer and I were, you know, we got back in the car after that. We're going, what the hell just happened here? Never have we ever experienced that. Let's stop here for another quick break. We'll be back in a moment.
Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories. Firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Stories about regaining a sense of safety, a handle on reality after your entire world is flipped upside down.
From unbelievable romantic betrayals... The love that was so real for me was always just a game for him. To betrayals in your own family... When I think about my dad, oh, well, he is a sociopath. Financial betrayal...
This is not even the part where he steals millions of dollars. And life or death deceptions. She's practicing how she's going to cry when the police calls her after they kill me. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm John Walzak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. Come on, Paul.
In 2001, police say I killed my family. First mom, then the kids. And rigged my house to explode. In a quiet suburb. This is the Beverly Hills of the Valley. Before escaping into the wilderness. There was sleet and hail and snow coming down. They found my wife's SUV. Right on the reservation boundary. And my dog flew. All I could think of is him and the sniper me out of some trees.
But not me. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. For two years. They won't tell you anything. I've traveled the nation. I'm going down in the cave. Tracking down clues. They were thinking that I picked him up and took him somewhere. If you keep asking me this, I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Searching for Robert Fisher. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world.
Do you recognize my voice? Join an exploding house, the hunt, family annihilation today and a disappearing act. Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your favorite shows. Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio. I spent almost a decade researching right wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters.
But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask. I've collected the stories of hundreds of aspiring little Hitlers of the suburbs, from the Nazi cop who tried to join ISIS, to the National Guardsman plotting to assassinate the Supreme Court, to the Satanist soldier who tried to get his own unit blown up in Turkey. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil. They're just some weird guy. And you can laugh. Honestly, I think you have to.
Seeing these guys for what they are doesn't mean they're not a threat. It's a survival strategy. So join me every Thursday for a look under the mask at the weird little guys trying to destroy America. Listen to Weird Little Guys on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
In June 2019, Reeder was indicted on eight felonies and eight misdemeanors. These felony charges are not directly related to the Rodin investigation. He was accused of conflict of interest, theft in office, and tampering with evidence, among other nefarious activities. According to reports, Reeder also allegedly stole cash seized from drug arrests to fund a gambling problem.
Here's investigative journalist James Pilcher. Yeah, he had a gambling addiction and he decided, oh, I'll just use my own forces money to feed it. Yeah. In places like this, and I'm not going to say it's necessarily a lack of journalistic outlets keeping tabs or whatever, but there's no accountability. There's nobody watching the watchers.
in these small communities. And in many cases, that can lead to major corruption.
It's definitely worth noting that Sheriff Reeder has pled not guilty to all of these charges. However, to Jody Barr, it's just another surreal event to what seems like a never-ending bizarre story. Reeder was, you know, shoulder to shoulder with Mike DeWine, the now governor who was then the attorney general when these murders happened. They together were updating the nation about what happened here in those days after the murders. And
where you're going, is this real? Then you read what the indictments allege and you read what the grand jury handed up. And then, you know, you just have to assume if a grand jury is handing up an indictment that there's been an investigation conducted, there have been facts gathered, a prosecutor has reviewed that. I mean, evidence tampering and tampering with records, you're
You're talking about a guy who led the sheriff's office and who for a time, a moment in time when this first happened, these murders first happened, who was also leading that investigation until the state came in and took it over. You just sit back and go, man, let's see where this ends. I mean, Pike County has been a crazy ride ever since the end of April of 2016. And it's still right now. You've got people awaiting trial, uh,
facing the death penalty on eight murders, the sheriff indicted, removed from office. It has been an absolutely crazy half a decade there. Still, the people of Pikeson are torn about Sheriff Reeder. He put this town before him. He cared about Pike County. Here's Roden family friend Brittany talking to Stephanie Lidecker. If it wasn't for him, for Charlie Reeder, they wouldn't have
came close to even finding out about the Wagners. Honestly, that's my opinion. How come? Because he worked his ass off to find. Like, that's all he did was investigate all of that. He didn't, like, he didn't
He'd done his job. He was doing really well in Pike County, getting the drugs off the streets and whatnot, but he still made a lot of effort into the Roden case.
Charlie had dedicated himself to getting justice for the Rodin family. And then he was booted. Not that that long ago. Apparently, he was taking the money from the Rodin case for gambling. But honestly, I don't believe it because I don't know. I just don't believe that. They just were finding reasons to get him out of office.
Angie Montgomery holds a much different view of Sheriff Reeder. You know, now he's blaming his gambling habits on because what he's seen is the rodent crime scenes have haunted him so much he couldn't sleep, so he would go gamble. Well, I've known Charlie for 30 years, and he's been gambling way before this happened. And that just, to me, shows you his character.
You know, I'm going to use the death of eight people to try to smooth over that I'm stealing money off my county and gambling. And that is disgusting to me. I just think there's a lot of dirty deeds that go on around here. And I think that they will do anything they can to keep them covered up. Do we have a lot of crime here? Yeah. Because of drugs. Do we have a lot of drug activity here? Yes. Way more than there was 15 years ago.
Is it safe here? I'm more scared of law enforcement than I am of the people that killed my cousin.
You're afraid to say anything. When in all reality, yeah, some things are out there that you think because you go down a ton of rabbit holes. When you talk to 200 and 300 people like I have over the course of two years, you find out a lot of crap. And it does take you down those rabbit holes. Is it true? You don't know. But by God, it looks like something isn't right.
So with Sheriff Reeder's ethics being brought into question, does this impact the charges brought against the Wagners?
Here's Jeff Winkler again. I would assume, you know, the charges against Reeder, the felonies and the misdemeanors about being, you know, through and through corrupt when it came to both law enforcement and financial dealings. Yeah, I would assume this is going to affect a lot of things. In fact, the prosecutor for the Pipedon area also just resigned. This just sort of makes you start thinking about everything that happened in the beginning.
Now you're seeing these charges and these resignations and, you know, it doesn't speak well about finding any answers to this thing.
Every answer we get about what happened to the Rodin seems to leave more questions. So how through all of these other crimes did Official Zero in on the Wagners? Police received over 1,100 tips. They conducted over 500 interviews, tested about 700 pieces of evidence, served close to 200 search warrants, subpoenas and other things. So this was something that was huge.
So when you read these indictments, they were talking about the Wagner's movements even months before these murders happened. Four months to plan this out. I mean, if that's every day for four months, that's the full-time job. You know, they're hacking computers and there were surveillance cameras on those properties. If we are to believe what the prosecution has alleged, you know, this paints a very dark picture.
Everybody had started basically attacking them, the community, accusing them of murdering those people. One day she goes, I can't believe that they just won't leave us alone. They just will not leave us alone. We're starting to get really worried that we're going to be arrested. More to come next week.
Pikedon Massacre is executive produced by Stephanie Lidecker and me, Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound design by executive producer Jared Astin. Additional producing by Jeff Shane and Andrew Becker. The Pikedon Massacre is a production of iHeartRadio and KT Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, the host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm John Walczak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI.
In 2001, police say I killed my family and rigged my house to explode before escaping into the wilderness. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. Join me. I'm going down in the cave. As I track down clues. I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Hunting. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world. Robert Fisher. Do you recognize my voice? Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.
Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio. I've spent almost a decade researching right-wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters. But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil. They're just some weird guy. So join me every Thursday for a look under the mask at the weird little guys trying to destroy America.
Listen to Weird Little Guys on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.