Klay to the Mavs, Spida re-signs in Cleveland, Lakers' Off-Season, and the Free Agency Medal Stand
01:23:35 Share

And now, The Low Post. Welcome to The Low Post podcast. It's July 3rd. I'm back home. Free agency. It's not slowed down, but it's slowing down. We have a LeBron James deal. Spoiler alert. No pay cut. We have a Bronny James deal. We have a Donovan Mitchell extension. Congratulations, Cleveland Cavaliers. We have some Golden State contracts that are interesting, but the...

Between the last podcast and this podcast, I think the biggest thing that happened, we knew Klay Thompson was leaving. We had an inkling where he was going, but it wasn't official. The Lakers were trying to get him on a four-year, $80 million ballpark deal. He ends up choosing the Dallas Mavericks.

Three years, 50 million sign and trade. Josh Green goes to Charlotte. Clay Thompson. We did the end of an era thing. I'm not going to wax poetic and get all emotional and romantic about basketball again. I already did it. I can only have so much. I only have so much emotion in my soul to spill. Um,

let's talk about the Dallas Mavericks, how clay fits there and where the Mavs stack up in a conference that, you know, for all I've heard Kevin Pelton about all the East is back. The top of the East is incredible. Or the three best teams in the NBA, all in the East. Now I got eight good to great Eastern conference teams, four or five, like whatever the hell are these teams. Then a few tankers in the West. I got 13 teams, uh,

With legitimate postseason play in hopes. Still counting the Clippers in that group, by the way. And just too likely to certain tankers in Portland and Utah.

with the Jazz now holding perhaps the most important potential trade piece in the entire league in Lowry Markin. And if they want to go to the bottom in this draft, maybe the next draft, more and more teams are, the bottom's getting a little crowded, Kevin. After Brooklyn plunged all the way there, Washington was always going to be there. Detroit probably going to be there, although I think they're going to be a little frisky this year. Charlotte, you never know.

Utah could get there. The Bulls look like they may be pivoting in that direction. And as you know, the more teams try the same strategy at the same time, the less effective that is, particularly with the new lottery odds. Just interesting times with the West. Still the better conference top to bottom. I don't really even think it's close. What do you think of Klay Thompson's fit with the Mavericks?

I think it's interesting. I mean, I start with the NBA finals and the lack of three-point shooting we saw from Dallas and how problematic it was, both in terms of number attempts and then making those attempts when they were able to create open threes.

Luka Doncic and Kyrie Irving were able to draw a second defender. And if you're looking for a way to increase your three-point volume, Klay Thompson is a hell of a way to do it. Whether it's him being a catch-and-shoot option, simply spotting up as the small forward next to those two guys, or especially, I think, when just one of those two stars is on the floor running plays three.

threw him off the ball to try to generate three point looks off of, you know, stagger screens and pin downs and things like that. That's a, that's a really interesting move. Now the flip side of that is if you plan to finish games with clay Thompson at small forward, like the, the defense has taken a pretty massive downgrade. We were looking at this as like Najee Marshall stepping into that Derek Jones Jr. On the wing on the role. And I think that is a defensive downgrade, but it's not maybe a dramatic one. If it's clay Thompson instead of Derek Jones Jr. Now it is a,

massive defensive downgrade. And it sort of gets us back to where Dallas was before they made those lineup changes in February, or I guess it was March by that point where it was Daniel Gafford coming to the starting five and Jones replacing Josh Green, because before that they had sort of been trying to use PJ Washington is a little bit of a wing stopper. I saw him guard, you know, Jason Tatum when the Mavericks played boss, the Celtics in Boston. And I think that stretches PJ Washington. Like he's a good switch defender in that role. If you're asking him to do

defend for you know eight to ten seconds at the end of the shot clock and a star okay if you're asking him to defend for like 24 seconds is the primary option against the best scores that's going to be an issue um yes so in total out went Josh Green who I think was kind of a footnote in all of this I think they're gonna I like Josh Green I think they're gonna miss Josh Green yeah

Out went Derrick Jones Jr. and out mercifully went Tim Hardaway Jr. In came Najee Marshall, who you mentioned is sort of the new Derrick Jones Jr.,

Klay Thompson might've heard of him. I thought getting Quinton Grimes in the hardaway salary dump was a really nice little piece of business for them. It went South for him in New York when he could, could kind of sense DiVincenzo breathing down his neck for the starting spot, got off to a slow start. The coaches lost confidence in him. His shot went up and down. I think there's something there as a potential two way reserve rotation player with him. And I think he could help the Mavericks, um,

But to your point, if the starting five I'm going to assume is Kyrie, Luka, Klay, Washington, and one of the centers. I'm kind of hopeful Lively supplants Gafford as the starter next year, but who knows? It doesn't really matter. And off the bench, you know, one of the two star guards will play. Dallas has been religious about that. Najee Marshall is going to be a mainstay off the bench and play a lot with the core lineups and the core starters.

Whoever the backup center is between Lively and Gafford. And then you have this kind of grab bag between Grimes, Exum. I think Omax Prosper might actually get a chance this year. Hardy, Kleba, whoever. That's a nice deep team. But the Kyrie, Luka, Klay, Washington quartet in the starting five, if that's what it ends up being. And certainly that group will play together a lot.

There is a downgrade in on-ball defense. I mean, that was Derek Jones' job. Use your speed and your length to chase around the quickest ball handlers, the lead ball handlers on all these teams. Klay can't do that anymore. Luka sure as hell ain't doing that. Kyrie can do it. I just don't think that's something you want to ask him to do for 25 minutes every game, 82 games a year in the regular season. I think that could be a problem.

Grimes could help solve it if he shoots well. Marshall can help solve it. He's actually taller and longer than Derrick Jones Jr. It doesn't look like that, but his height and wingspan are both longer than Derrick Jones Jr. I think he's a little bit better of a shooter on a little bit more volume, although he has to prove his 38% from three last year was real. I think they can work around it, and I think the upgrade in shooting...

with clay is is worth the risk on on defense i think it's it's not as big a home run as as i don't know if anyone's making out to be a home run i don't think that the transactions in the aggregate are like a huge giant home run but i do think dallas is incrementally probably a little better

Yeah. I mean, it's going to be fascinating to see sort of how it plays out. You mentioned that grab bag of, you know, options for Jason kid, like that's very important during the regular season because of the fact that it helps you survive the inevitable injuries you're going to have. It, it may. And that's where having clay Thompson is another guy who can create his own shot to a degree probably will be nice for them. You know, obviously the other thing that we don't remark about in the way that they finished the season and, and,

playoff run is Kyrie was healthy that entire time. The first three months of the season, he missed a lot of time and it was just on Luca to be responsible for generating a lot of offense. So you got clay as a second guy, Cape, a third guy capable of doing that. That's a, that's a big positive for them. I think it is going to be interesting though, just when it's the, you know, the crunch time when it's those five guys are out there. The other question is,

Do you consider at times taking one of the centers off the floor in those situations? And then you play Najee Marshall or one of the, you know, depending on who the matchup is, maybe Eximer Grimes is the perimeter defender and you play P.J. Washington is the five. Maybe that gives you a little more flexibility to do that. Or maybe it's even if it's a combo three, four, it's Maxi Kleba with Washington in the front court. So you have that versatility. That'll be interesting to see how it shakes out.

It's a lot of options. So that's, I think, the good thing. Sometimes, though, there can be kind of a paralysis by too many options for coaches during the playoffs.

Yeah, I think they'll figure that out. I did find it somewhat funny, all the angst. I didn't see a lot of it, but I saw some of it about, well, how is Klay going to get his offense in this stagnant Dallas ball-pounding offense? How are they going to possibly figure this out? I'm like, yeah, you don't think the coaches can try to figure that one out? Yeah, Luka wants to play a certain way.

He has been adaptable and met Kyrie Irving at his pace. And I think Dallas playing faster is going to be huge for Klay Thompson. You might have seen Klay run the wings on fast breaks now and then for the last like 13 years in the NBA. I think the coaches are going to figure out how to draw up some sets for him to like set ball screens, which is something he did now and then for Curry on the ball, like traditional pick and roll stuff. I think you're going to see some off ball screening. Actually, I think the Mavs will be fine.

And I do think people are underestimating because Clay's not the same guy anymore. And because so much of this story has been about how ugly and acrimonious the departure was for such a franchise icon and how sad it is that this is how it ends between him and the Warriors. Um,

This is an A++ shooter. Like we talk about 3 and D guys and like, you know, maybe Dorian Finney-Smith can have a pretty good year shooting 38% this year. And maybe this guy can come in and become a 3 and D guy, whatever. Klay is a A++ on the move, off the catch, blink and you miss it. His release is so fast. Shooter.

There are not very many of those in the NBA. Dallas now has one surrounding Luca and Kyrie. They don't have to run a lot of fancy stuff to get clay, really good looks from three. And they've never had a shooter like this. I think he's going to feast even in this sort of declined state. He's one of the best three point shooters in the world. Still, he went up to 40 percent almost last year after a totally ice cold start.

I just think like this guy, the quick release, the ability to shoot off movement in any direct, like I've seen Clay dribble out of post-ups backwards into off the dribble threes. And like he can get threes anywhere, anytime. And I think Dallas is betting on that is going to have such a gigantic impact on our spacing and the way teams guard us. And I think they're right. I think people are underestimating just what the threat of Clay Thompson still represents.

And it's interesting because the Mavericks did try this at what was that the 2021 trade deadline when they picked up JJ Radek or former colleagues now the coach of the Los Angeles Lakers. The head coach of the head coach of Bronny James's team. It's just like absolutely wild turn of events. He wasn't healthy enough for Lakers.

ultimately to play that role, and obviously that was before Kyrie Irving was there, but they were presumably drawing up, and I think it was the same coaching staff? It was a different coaching staff too, but presumably envisioning kind of those same actions off of Luka for JJ, given his ability as a guy shooting coming off of screens. I think the other question here is

Part of this acrimonious messy split has been how unhappy Klay Thompson was, how his unhappiness might have affected the rest of the Warriors. I do think there has to be some degree of a humbling element to the way that this offseason has played out for Klay Thompson. He wasn't the guy getting $30 million a year. It wasn't Orlando throwing him a huge two-year offer to make him the guy that they used all their cap space on.

He needs to play and he will play an important role in their offense, particularly when he's out there with the second unit. But I do think some of the kind of hunting shots when he's in a cold stretch that we saw sometimes in Golden State that I think was frustrating as a neutral observer was probably very frustrated to the Warriors. Like if you're out there with Kyrie Irving and Luka Doncic, you can't have that at this stage.

Yeah, he did. He did take a lot of bad shots last year. And like the off the dribble mid range to contested is, is kind of almost out of his arsenal in, in, unless it's like late in the shot clock emergency situation. You just, he just doesn't get those shots off as easily anymore. Um,

In related news, he's in his mid-30s and he missed 900-something days of basketball with two of the most catastrophic leg injuries that a player can suffer. So yeah, he's not the same guy in terms of movement and explosiveness as he once was. You talking about those shots...

I'm glad you did because there was just something so human and relatable about watching Clay shoot those shots last year. You could see him saying to himself, I'm still Clay Thompson. Like I just, if I can just make one or two of these and break the seal a little bit, like I'm still Clay Thompson. I just got to get myself out of the slump. Yeah. I'm taking the team out of the offense. Yeah. Draymond's over there annoyed. Steve Kerr's maybe a little annoyed. Like I just, just let me get off and I can, I can, I can get back to being Clay. Yeah.

And some of the clay leaves stories have kind of like Ramona and Kendra had a really good one today. The athletic has had a couple have had phrases like temperamental was in one of them difficult to manage. I think might've been a Ramona and Kendra's about just clay's struggles emotionally adapting to his reduced role coming off the bench eventually last year behind Pajemski and,

I find that all human. And he wore it on his sleeve. Like there were some very, very sort of nakedly emotional press conferences and scenes on the bench where you could see it wearing on him. And he talked about his basketball mortality and he's not the same guy. And I'm sure that at times, you know, Ramona had the phrase in her story with Kendra about how, you know, this was a kind of a change for the guy that Steve Kerr once called the zero maintenance, not low maintenance, zero maintenance superstar player.

And I find that all, I'm sure it was difficult to manage. Like clearly it was, he's gone. He's not on the team anymore. Um,

I'm sure there were some uncomfortable conversations. I'm sure there was some annoyance with his shot selection, but I'm actually kind of relieved that nothing else worse came out. I certainly didn't hear anything else worse than that about clay in golden state in the last year, because all of that stuff is very human and relatable to me. And because this is the most recent event in the crumbling of the warriors dynasty, it does feel like, like,

Klay's not the one who punched his teammate in practice and knocked him out in full view of everybody on the team.

Clay is not the one who has, Clay's not the one, like, Clay's not the only one whose play has declined significantly since the 2022 title in their starting lineup. Andrew Wiggins is the other one. And Andrew Wiggins, because of serious personal reasons, has been away from the team a lot too. And that's kind of hurt their rhythm and continuity. I respect his, I know what the personal reasons are. They're serious. And like, sometimes you got to live, you got to focus on life.

um, Clay's not the one who choked Rudy Gobert and then swung at Yusuf Nurkic and got suspended indefinitely and then came back and tried to spin the suspension is like, well, this was good for the team because we discovered how good Kaminga is like,

And that's not to villainize Draymond. Draymond is a basketball savant. He's a genius. He elevates the Warriors and they elevate him. I think he would have been a great player in any ecosystem on any team anywhere. I've always enjoyed talking with Draymond. But Klay has been like not the least of their problems, but not the biggest part of their problems is this has all gone sideways. And this is...

This is just kind of what happens to great teams. They get old, then they get worse and they have to rebuild and they've been picking at the bottom of the draft during their time at the top of the league. So they don't have a bunch of great young players. The Warriors had this sort of completely anomalous chance of,

to build the team of the future while the team of the present was still dominant. And that was the total accident of the two timelines when everybody got hurt and Durant left and they got the number two pick in the draft and they blew it on James Wiseman. And after that, they had some other great picks, the Kaminga pick, courtesy of Minnesota and their obsession with D'Lo.

The Moody pick is good. Jackson Davis is good. Pajemski is good. Like they've built a nice young core of guys, except for the biggest chance and the biggest swing that they've had. And this was always the most likely outcome where, you know,

The young guys are not ready in time for the old guys. And by the time they're ready, the old guys are gone or not as good anymore. And then when the young guys are ready, there's some question about like, okay, what does this actually amount to? Are these guys like a nucleus of a 55 win team? This is just sort of how it ends. And, you know, before we talk about where the Warriors go, let's talk more about Dallas. What else about Klay? What other moves did you want to talk about?

Yeah, I mean, I think just to go back to that shooting element, like other than Hardaway for Grimes and Grimes is not a bad shooter, you can argue that they upgraded shooting, sacrificed a little bit of defense in both the, you know, the Derek Jones Jr. for Najee Marshall and then effectively swapping out Josh Green for Clay Thompson moves. They also, Grimes gets them a little bit younger and Marshall's a wash, but

Swapping out Josh Green for Klay Thompson does make them significantly older. I think that probably is reasonable given that the core of the team is still quite young that you know going forward that the four guys are going to be Kyrie, Luke, P.J. Washington Jr., and Derek Lively II. So that's kind of the most important group going forward. But it is interesting and I wonder would they have been as aggressive with that if they hadn't gotten as far in the playoffs as they did?

And yet nothing about that playoff run feels particularly fluky to me. I mean, this is a very polished team with an MVP candidate at the forefront of it who's even better in the playoffs than he is in the regular season, although he was a little shaky this year because of health. Not shaky. He wasn't quite as dominant all the time because of some health issues. And he's looking a little creaky. I don't know if you saw Croatia beat the hell out of Slovenia yesterday in the Olympic qualifying tournament, but Luka was kind of

sludging around out there. And then, of course, in true Croatia basketball fashion, we follow. Yeah, I'm using we. We follow that up by losing, blowing a fourth quarter lead against freaking New Zealand today. New Zealand, KP. No disrespect, as RJ would say, to New Zealand. But like, you got to beat. I always say, you got to beat New Zealand. You got to beat New Zealand. You can't lose to New Zealand. What was it? The 2002 World Cup that New Zealand made a big run with Brooklyn Nets GM Sean Marks right in the middle of it?

I that is a deep hole. I don't have any memory of that happening. I will trust that it indeed happened. Sean Marks having a long run is next GM just like one iteration of the team after another after another after another after another. Now we've got a million draft picks. We got our picks back. We stink, but that's on purpose. More on Dallas. What the hell are we talking about? Oh, nothing about their playoff run felt fluky to me.

uh they beat minnesota fair and square 4-1 took five games you know and uh beat okc that's gonna be a little harder next year to beat okc but they beat them and beat the clippers who have clipped clipped their way back out of this conversation um i think this is gonna work out fine for dallas i don't know that they're like markedly better but i think they're probably a little bit better

With some tweaks left to do. And of course, you mentioned younger to older. These are also the kind of moves you have to make when you've traded away control of your first round pick from like 2027 to 2030. You've just got to go for it now. And they are. So if you look at the... Go ahead. And from an asset standpoint, I think they did really well. Now they are, I think, out of controllable second round picks now.

as a result of all these tradable second round picks as a result of the, all these deals, but you know, to, to not have to tap into a first round or to get off of Tim Hardaway Jr and get a player who can potentially really help you in crimes, I thought was a really big win for them. Honestly, these second round picks move around so much. Like didn't someone say, didn't we go the entire draft without anyone actually using their own second round pick? Wasn't there some crazy stat? Like it took until like the 50 something pick.

Dan Feldman of the Dunked On podcast looked this up. I believe the only team that didn't trade their pick was Philadelphia because they forfeited it for a tampering violation. All right. That's very on brand for the Sixers. I honestly think they move around so much that you might be able to trick the league and just be like, yeah, we're going to trade our 2031 second round pick in this deal. And the league will be like, hey, we don't have you listed.

with the 2031 second round pick and be like no no we got it we got it on draft day there was like a five team swap i didn't maybe you guys missed it on twitter you know but we have one trust us um okay in the west uh i saw bill simmons kind of tried to tear out the league today i think that's a little too early but in the west because if we're talking about the warriors and the lakers now which we are

This conference is just incredible. So if you had to pick a top four, in some order, you would probably pick Oklahoma City, Minnesota, Denver, Dallas as the incumbent finalist team. There'll be some shakeups. I've already covered KCP. I still think Denver is going to be a very, very good team because they have the best player on planet Earth. Yeah.

After that, it gets just kind of mucky. This is not a ranking. This is just teams that I think are good and are going to be battling for five and six. I think people have kind of forgotten about Memphis. If Jha's healthy and ready to go, they just win a lot of regular season games. You can quibble with their playoff performances, but they win a lot of regular season games. Phoenix is still phoenixing away. They got Royce O'Neal back. They signed Damian Lee today. They got Mason Plumlee.

Monty Morris. Monty Morris. Actually, that's a big signing for them. That's a really good sign. For what they had, that's a good offseason. The Pelicans got to Jante Murray. I covered that. Feels like there's more moves to make. But if Zion's healthy, that's always a big if. They're good. Lakers, always going to be battling. Kings, always going to be battling. I think the Kings, by the way,

I think the Kings have a move yet to make in the offseason. I just think that Barnes plus Herter plus picks thing is going to turn into something. I don't know that they have enough to get Markkinen. I think they've sniffed around that. I think they've sniffed around DeRozan, too, as like a sneak DeRozan team. You know, the Clippers are not – if Kawhi and James are healthy, like the Clippers are going to be frisky.

Great. Frisky is good. The Rockets still here. Again, I'm not ranking these teams. I think the Spurs won 22 games last year. I think the Spurs could win 40 games next year. I don't think that's wild at all. I think that guy is so goddamn good, CP. Warriors, we haven't even mentioned. It's a really, really tough conference. And that's why, you know, pivoting to the Warriors now, Klay's gone. They didn't get Paul George.

I think they're trying to get Lowry marketing. I think there's a price point. I think Utah at some point in the next calendar year is going to trade marketing. It may be sooner than that. I just think as soon, I just look at Danny Ainge's history. If you meet his price, he will trade. And the next two drafts, not just this coming draft, the next two drafts are supposed to be incredible.

I think the Jazz are tired of doing this dance where, hey, we're 20 and 18. We're doing great. Look at the Jazz. Oh, we don't really want to be that good. Can we pull the rug out? Oh, it's too late. Oh, we're picking 10th. Yeah, great. And I think the Warriors, if they put everything in, and that would include Kaminga, I think they could get Mark in it. I just don't... I don't...

I don't, Kaminga is just, he's really goddamn good. And I don't know that that's something that they would do. I guess, I guess time will tell. They've got picks, they've got young players and he's the golden chip. And they didn't get Paul George. So they are left with all the incumbent players. They signed Kyle Anderson away from the Wolves, sign and trade. And they signed DeAnthony Melton on a one-year $12 million deal.

There are real questions about his health and his back issues that he had last year. But if he's healthy, he's a very good player. What do you what do you make of this? What do you make of this team now that this is all the drama is over? The dust has settled. Here's their team. Here's their players. Like, what is this team?

Yeah, I mean, I don't feel like it has settled because of the Markkinen situation. I mean, I think... Let's pretend they can't get him and this is the team. Certainly. Well, Buddy Heald is supposedly still in the mix and I feel like that's one that would make more sense if you're trading Moody and Kaminga for Markkinen because it feels like too many guys...

If they add Buddy Heald to the mix, like Moses Moody is going to be stuck on the bench another season. If they incorporate him into this sign and trade, sending Clay to Dallas and landing them Kyle Anderson. By the way, we have a related story breaking right now. We'll just interrupt for a second. In the wake of Kyle Anderson's departure, we get a little jazz reunion. Joe Ingles is signing with the Minnesota Timberwolves. Joe Ingles is helpful to have around.

Don't mind that for the Wolves. Love it. Wolves have done a nice job around the margins. That Dillingham trade is going to be one that's going to be really interesting to look back on four or five years from now. Anyway, please continue about the Warriors. Yeah. So I think what's interesting about the Warriors right now is...

You mentioned them letting Clay go. We didn't talk about and kind of under discuss. They had Chris Paul last year. They waived him. They don't have a traditional backup point guard on the roster whatsoever. And that's where it feels like Kyle Anderson is going to be pretty important to provide some of that supplemental playmaking with the second unit. I assume Brandon Pajamski has the ball in his hands a lot with the second unit. And then, you know, Melton is

sort of a point guard when he got drafted although he's almost exclusively been a wing in the nba so i think you're sort of cobbling it together with that group maybe a little bit like you know when they had sean livingston and andre guadalla playing together off the bench and you're relying on both of those guys and draymond green for some playmaking as opposed to just you know let's have chris paul be the backup point guard and let him run a bunch of pick and rolls because he's really good at that which is maybe a little easier but uh

then the upside of that is they're going to be really big defensively with those groups. If you have Melton and Gary Payton, the second out there in slow-mo, like that's a nightmare. It's a nightmare to play against. Yeah. So I'm excited about that. I mean, I think, I think the Warriors are ultimately better if this is the group than they were last season. I assuming Melton is healthy. I think that that will ultimately upgrade them. They're going to be deeper. They're going to be a little bit more versatile and,

Whether that's enough to make a meaningful difference, I don't know. But I sort of understand it from both a Healdwood pushed them into the luxury tax. That's an interesting thing. I figured that maybe part of the logic here was, well, we can reset the roster, get deeper, and avoid the luxury tax. So it'll be interesting if they do pay that because they are repeaters this year. But I understand it from the financial standpoint, and I do think they're a better team. I do hope...

I do hope Joe Lacob's finances are okay. I hope he's doing all right. It's tough out there. What is the point of Buddy Hield on the team? They're already pretty deep in guards. He's obviously one of the best shooters ever, and yet no team seems to really want him around for all that long. The Sixers didn't even play him until their season was on the line, and all of a sudden he made a million shots and almost saved their asses in Game 6 against the Knicks.

Um, you know, I tried to map out their rotation just for fun just now. I don't even know who the starting lineup is. Like I I'm going to like, is it time for Wiggins to come off the bench? Like they, they, they, they finagled it last year by putting Kaminga back into a reserve role because they wanted to start green and Jackson Davis. And you can't start Wiggins Kaminga green and Jackson Davis or green in the center.

I just think they're going to have to start coming. I it's time he's arrived. It's, it's going, he's going to be one of the most, if, if he's still on the team and this is what happens. So, I mean, I would go, I don't know what you do with Wiggins, but I Curry Pajemski, Kaminga green, Jackson Davis. And obviously there's always going to be issues with Kaminga and green in a center. Is that enough shooting on the floor? So, but I don't know what the solution is. And then off the bench, I,

They have a lot of good players. Gary Payton II, he's had injury issues. Moses Moody, he's ready for more. Melton, he's had injury issues. Slow Mo's good. They still have Looney around. They can play Draymond at center, and they have a lot of wings to do that. I guess Heald is both a different sort of player than anybody they have, and it's always good to have good players because some of these guys are going to get injured. It's an interesting team.

Again, I read you all those teams in the West. I keep saying this. To be a good team in the West is nice. You're a good team. To win 45, 46 games, this team finished 27-12 to end the season. There's honor in being a good team in the Western Conference. I just don't know what the pathway is for that to be anything but a decent Western Conference team. And truthfully, what are they if...

they go all in for Markkinen and it costs them future picks and either Kaminga or all their young players other than Kaminga. Is that actually worth it? Are you actually a good enough team with Steph, Draymond, Markkinen, whatever is left over to compete with these juggernauts? Is that actually worth the cost to your future? Maybe you say Markkinen is still so young that he's part of our future at that point. That's part of his appeal. The other interesting thing with Markkinen is

If you don't have cap room, you can't extend him. And that's part of his value to Utah right now is they can extend him. I think that's an interesting question. What do you think of that? Is that like, are they good enough in the present to justify the cost? I think it's absolutely the right question to ask. And I think, yeah, the question is, could they jump into the top four? I don't think that they would necessarily.

If you're doing a preseason ranking, I don't think they'd probably be in that top four. But I do think there's enough likelihood that one of those teams will have injuries and fall out. And that's where the Nuggets without KCP is.

like they're probably still going to be really good because as long as they have Nikola Jokic, they're going to be really good. But there is a little bit more risk that, you know, Jamal Murray misses time or, you know, one of the wings and suddenly you're just asking way too much of some of these young guys in the rotation who are unproven. And that's where maybe they slide, you know, they slide out of it. Or maybe, you know, Dallas has some injuries and slides out of it. Like I, I do think you,

You'd probably be more likely than not to finish in the top four, but you wouldn't it wouldn't be the most likely outcome for you. That makes sense. I mean, I for sure can tell you that that's the conversation they were having about Paul George, who's obviously seven years older than Markkinen. And so you have to be good immediately with him on your team. Not good. Great.

And as I said earlier this week, I don't think that ever got particularly close because that's a three-pronged negotiation. That's not a two-pronged negotiation. That's Paul George on one side, the Clippers on another side, and the Warriors on the other side. And what Paul George would do in a trade to get him to Golden State is very different than what the Clippers would do to get Paul George to Golden State. So I don't think that ever got particularly close.

Well, let's talk about that a little bit. Because if you go, we know now what the Clippers outcome more or less looks like. I guess maybe they could still be in the mix for DeMar DeRozan, who we haven't talked about yet. But like if the alternative was being able to, if you were able to send Chris Paul to a third team, presumably San Antonio, you somehow figure out a way to make that work. And the Clippers would not have

If the Clippers would have been able to make that move without pushing into the second apron, and the alternative is you end up with someone, some of their young players were not presumably Moody. Moody versus getting Derek Jones Jr. and being able to re-sign Nikola Batum. Is that a better direction for the Clippers? Just Moody? Moody in whatever salary you need to figure out. Can I get Pajemski too? No.

Then I don't care. Then it's a, that's a wash to me. I like, I like Moody, but I don't like Moody that much. What, what is your answer to your own question? I, I'm a huge Moody believer. I mean, he would be the number one player in the league I would be trying to trade for right now. Who would be? Moody. I mean, not like obviously, you know, not number one, but like the guys who are out there. And I think if they, especially if they had healed, like they got to trade Moody, they got to, they can't bring him into their season. This season is their 12th man.

Look, I've been banging. Perk and I don't agree on all that many things. We're probably a 40% agreement rate. We've been banging the moody drum for a year and a half. I don't understand why he doesn't play more. I think he's good. Maybe you're right. Maybe that is a better path for the Clippers. But that's what you have to weigh. Are we good enough with this veteran in the door to justify the future cause? Markkinen's really good. Maybe the answer is

Maybe the answer is we have to err on the side of now as long as Curry is on the team. And maybe that's what you do. And you mentioned Klay's gone, Chris is gone. In the second apron era, I think seeing guys walk for quote-unquote nothing might become a more common thing because nothing is not nothing. Nothing is the mid-level exception. Nothing is DeAnthony Melton. Nothing becomes real, actual good players. I just don't know kind of what this team...

Really is. Virginia football fans, picture this. You bet on your favorite player to score the first touchdown and he throws an awesome block so his teammate can score instead. If this happens, BetMGM wants to give you another chance at the end zone. With BetMGM's second chance promotion, you'll get your stake back if your first touchdown scorer scores second instead.

That's right. Bet on any pro football player to score the first touchdown of the game. If you're right, you win. If your player scores second, you get your stake back in cash. Everyone knows the most exciting part of football is the score. With BetMGM's second chance promotion, you have a chance to keep the fun going after the first player crosses the goal line. Place a first touchdown scorer wager today.

BetMGM and GameSense remind you to play responsibly. See BetMGM.com for terms. 21 plus only. Virginia only. Existing customer offer. Subject to eligibility requirements. Rewards vary. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. This episode is brought to you by Allstate. Some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate first. Like, you know to check you have the tickets in your wallet first before you drive two hours to the big game.

Seriously, you had one job. Now the closest you'll get to the 50-yard line is parking lot D. Yeah, checking first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Savings vary. Terms apply. Allstate Fire and Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. Let's talk about breaking news. The Miami Heat did something. They signed Alec Burks on a one-year due.

I had a gut feeling that sounds like that's the minimum. I had a gut feeling that Alec Burks might end up on the minimum. And at that level, I think he's a terrific pickup. Preston Pysh : It's going to be a very interesting year in Heatland with Butler's extension apparently not happening and Butler on an expiring contract. I never count the Heat out. I don't know much about the kid they just drafted, where.

We barely got to see Rozier, Butler, Hero, and Bam together at all before everybody got injured at different times, including at the end of the season when they were completely helpless against Boston in the playoffs. Hawkins is legit. Jovich made a leap and I think has another leap coming. It was kind of the leap that presaged another leap. Burks is helpful. I think it's a good team. I just don't.

I think the gap has widened between them and the top of the East. And obviously Alec Burks is not going to close the gap. He's a helpful guy to have around. It just, it feels like the heat are kind of in a little bit of a holding pattern, trying to figure out what the next pivot is.

Obviously, the Heat's pedigree would suggest that the next pivot is trying to find the next star. Donovan Mitchell was on their short, short, short list, and he just signed an extension with the Cavs, which we will talk about. Lakers. Well, Caleb Martin, by the way, just sitting there. Who knows what's going to happen with him? But you re-signed him, you're pushing to the second apron. Yeah.

And they kind of like Martin and Highsmith are both free agents and Alec Burks is nice, but boy, are they getting really small in the perimeter when you look at, you know, already you're trying to find minutes for Roger and hero out there. Josh Richardson came back Burks. That's a lot. I mean, Burks is big for a guard, but that's a lot of guards.

I think they're probably counting on Martin and Highsmith not having much of a market as teams get squeezed and empty dollars, although there's still a lot of dollars available in Detroit and San Antonio and some other places. Utah, depending on whether they're going to renegotiate and extend marketing. Utah has the most, I think, of anybody, right? Okay, Lakers. Klay Thompson did not choose the Lakers.

to the chagrin of his father, Michael Thompson, who is a Lakers commentator and also a franchise legend. LeBron's timetable on taking a discount has expired. He signed this morning a one plus one max or max-ish contract. There might be a little wiggle room to get them below the second apron, 50-something a year. And Bronny James...

signed a three plus one rookie deal at the minimum using the second round pick exception, which allows teams to go for longer than a couple of years. Didn't sign a two year minimum. Sure as hell didn't sign a two way, signed a three plus one. So he's going to be on the team making a real NBA salary and taking up a real NBA roster spot. And this is going to be a basketball story. Now we're going to see what Bronny James actually is in the NBA. So, um,

The Lakers are more or less the same team that ended the season. I'm sure they'd like to get another player somehow. DeMar DeRozan has been mentioned for them only because the process of elimination seems to be landing on DeMar DeRozan. They still have two future first round picks to trade in addition to Dalton Connect, who I don't think they're going to trade. They seem to love Dalton Connect. I think the Trae Young thing, at least for now, has run its course with them. I don't see them going for Trae Young.

uh I don't know again like I put them in the same category as the Warriors almost like this is a good team it's a good team they made the playoffs last year they put up a good fight against Denver they won one playoff game one um that's a they're a good team I just think there's a gigantic gap between that and the kind of team that can win one two three playoff series in the Western Conference and I'm not sure how they close that

And maybe they're cool with that. Maybe they're, they're really like, we're just going to kind of develop our players, keep our picks. We're not going to do anything reckless. We have some nice, interesting young pieces. We have some financial flexibility more than you'd expect. Given we have two guys making a hundred million combined. I just, I don't really know what else to say other than they, they swung and missed on clay. And we can talk about the reasons for that. If you want, I think those have been outlined pretty well by Ramona and others, but I don't know, man, it's kind of like the Bronnie, the Bronnie story is going to get a lot of eyeballs. Yeah.

Maybe Vando comes back healthy. Gabe Vincent comes back healthy. D'Lo opted in. Kind of feels a little stagnant, a little disappointing. Yeah, I mean, the fundamental issue here is the Lakers love to give out player options, and a lot of teams had to do that with minimum guys last year because there was so much competition for those players in the market. And we'll see. It doesn't seem like it's the same level of competition this year, but D'Angelo Russell picks up his player option.

Christian Wood, Cam Reddish, Jackson Hayes all do. And suddenly you've got 13 guys under contract. Now you can move some of those with cash and maybe with some second round picks, but it doesn't get the Russell one in particular. It doesn't give you a lot of flexibility to deal with the aprons. And so,

It would be really interesting to be in that room and know exactly who was on the Lakers list besides Klay Thompson that they were willing to offer the non-tax mid-level to because as generous an offer as this was by LeBron James to potentially take 20 plus million or something less in salary this year to open that up.

It does come with a bit of a catch on the second year, which is presumably then he bumps back up to his max. You're still paying the guy on the mid-level, and all of a sudden you're deep into the second APRA. And I think one of the things that's been under-discussed is that the second APRA restrictions kick in this year.

Next year, what happens is the luxury tax starts getting a lot more punitive for teams that are in that level. It's not like specifically tied to the second apron, but it's going to be a little bit more graduated. So if you're just into the luxury tax, it's going to not be quite as expensive necessarily if you're below the apron, the first apron.

But if you're deep into it, it's going to become even more punitive, especially if you're a repeater. So I think that definitely played a factor in the thinking of even the Clippers with Steve Vollmer's financial resources, even the Warriors, and certainly the Lakers who have not operated as far above the luxury tax as those two teams have in recent years. So I think that's an interesting piece of this is how many players were they really willing to go to the mid-level on? And then the other issue is,

Because of the fact that now adding salary in a trade hard caps you at the first apron as well, you're going to have to take back less salary in a trade almost certainly. And it's what makes a sign and trade for DeMar DeRozan so difficult because it's not just that they have to take back less salary than they send out. They have to take back like 11 million less salary so that they get onto the first apron with a sign and trade hard cap. That was a lot of information right there. Yeah.

You know, look, I don't want to completely downplay that it was a real and generous offer by LeBron. I also think it was a very savvy PR move to say, I am willing to do this.

For, I mean, for, we don't know how many players were on the list. Let's just say five. Let's say one of these five players. We do supposedly know that Jonas Valanciunas and the Lakers could have offered him more than the Washington Wizards did and chose not to, which I do think was probably the right decision because I'd rather Anthony Davis play center. Agreed.

I just, it reminded me a little bit of a much, much, much, they're not situationally similar in terms of emotions and what was going on in the organizations. But when Damian Lillard was like, I'll give you some time in free agency. You got to do something big to make me happy. You don't have any cap space or flexibility or real tools to do that. But like, good luck, Damian.

the onus is now on you front office and then 18 hours later like well you didn't do anything I'm going to demand a trade now I was like wait what which is you gave us 24 hours and we have no tools at our disposal it was very similar like okay and now I have seen all these stories about how like what Nick Wright had a whole rant about like what is Rob Plinka's job what does he do all day long like then the Lakers front office failed LeBron again that's the consequence of what is a very savvy PR move by LeBron to be like I am willing to do this

sacrifice if x y and z go get it done the chances of getting any of those specific things done are pretty slim when you're like if you're giving a list of like specific names well valentina's i don't even want clay didn't want to come to us uh derosen is sitting floating in the wind and you just outlined the complexities of that who held hardened like he got paid 35 million dollars a year by the clippers like what what am i supposed to do about that um

But I would love to know, like, Derrick Jones Jr. would have helped them a lot and they could have potentially gotten a bidding war with the Clippers for them. Like, was he on the list?

I doubt it. But that's actually the guy who probably would have done more to help them than maybe even DeRozan. They need two-way players. You need two-way players. That's what you need, not another score. This is how you got in the problem in the first place. Well, how they got in the problem in the first place. I mean, everything, I hate to do this all the time, everything goes back to the Westbrook trade. Like everything that's happening now. No, it goes back earlier than that. It goes back to Danny Green for Dennis Schroeder. Like they've been continually undervaluing DeRozan.

Two-way role players. I like that trade. I was guilty of laughing. I thought they needed a player with Dennis Schroeder's skill set.

And they were getting younger and they had KCP as their other three in D wing at that point. But it's at every turn after they won the championship with a bunch of two-way role players in 2020, they went away from two-way role players in favor of whoever was the best scorer they could get, whether it was Montrezl Harrell, Schroeder, then obviously Westbrook. And not just making the trade, but also letting Alex Caruso walk and

Like the idea that you didn't pay Alex Caruso after we've seen what trade value he had on that contract. That's actually worse in some ways than the Westbrook trade. Well, this turned into quite a late walk down memory lane for the Lakers post bubble. Anthony Davis's jump shot also got left in the bubble. Someone should go try to find it at Disney World somewhere. And I say that Anthony Davis was absolutely incredible last year. One of the best years, if not the best year of his career. And I had him.

I had him first team all defense. His coach may not have had him first or second team all defense. I had him first team all defense. Sorry, JJ. I did find JJ's impromptu and unprompted

very podcasty monologue about Bronnie James has earned this with his hard work. And I was like, Wendy, we were on TV when that happened. And Wendy said, yeah, the Lakers are being a little sensitive there. They should just kind of let that go. I was like, wow, you, you, there's a little bit of like Doth protest too much to that. Like no one asked, no one asked the question, man. We're all like prepared to move on and talk about the father, son thing. And anyway, Lakers. So I find myself asking my, asking this question.

Maybe you just answered it with all the cap complexities. We spent the entire last six months being like, well, in the offseason, the Lakers have three first-round picks to trade. Three first-round picks, three first-round picks, plus whatever. Could they get DeJounte Murray? Well, he's gone. Could they get Trey Young? Could they get Star X? Could they get Star Y? Now they draft Dalton Connect, and they're clearly thrilled that Dalton Connect has fallen to them. And that was one of the three picks. So now let's put Dalton Connect over here. We're down to two.

Now, future Lakers picks are really, really valuable assets if they're unprotected. I wouldn't sneeze and just say, well, they're down to two first-round picks. If it's unprotected, whatever the years are, 29 and 31, whatever it is, those are potentially very, very valuable assets. You can get in play for a lot of stuff with two of those. You could get in play for some pretty damn good stuff with one of those. Plus, Vando and D'Lo is...

almost $30 million in salary, I think. If you called Portland and you just said, we'll give you one of our picks on protected, these two salaries, you get off Jeremy Grant and you get this golden chip of a pick. I guess what I'm asking is, is there a small... We've spent all this time on the bigger deal. Is there a smaller deal? And is that a wise thing for them to explore?

I think there is. I think it is wise to explore. I do think one of the things we may see is the Lakers play this out until the trade deadline, like we saw with the Westbrook trade,

When they sent him out at the 23 deadline, because it kind of gives you a couple months to figure out a are we good enough to actually justify this or like are we is there not any real hope of us getting into the top four in the West? Because that's one difference between now and that 2023 season when the West really opened up due to injuries and teams underperforming.

And then the other element of it is, I think you do have a better idea at that point. How much can Dalton connect help us now? What's Max Christie's development this season? You know, those questions might start to shape which direction, because if you're trading for Jeremy Grant, the interesting thing is, and you're giving up D'Angelo Russell, like LeBron is your point guard at that point, I guess. Yeah, you do need guards. You do need people, other people to dribble the ball. And Austin Reeves can do that

And there's a ceiling on how much I want Austin Reeves doing that. I think Austin Reeves is a very good player who fits well with this team. And Gabe Vincent just was injured the whole year. So I don't know what he's going to get. That's a good point. They kind of are what they are. I mean, I know it's a boring thing to say, and we want to talk about the Lakers every day on ESPN. And the LeBron Bronny thing is going to be all year long, unless he's in the G League for part of the year.

I just like, I just don't really see a pathway for them to be a real contender anymore. Do you? I mean, barring a roster move, like if this is the team, I just with this group. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, I don't think so. At Sierra, discover top workout gear at incredible prices, which might lead to another discovery. Your headphones haven't been connected this whole time. Awkward. Discover top brands at unexpectedly low prices. Sierra, let's get moving.

Ryan Reynolds here for, I guess, my 100th Mint commercial. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I mean, honestly, when I started this, I thought I'd only have to do like four of these. I mean, it's unlimited premium wireless for $15 a month. How are there still people paying two or three times that much? I'm

I'm sorry, I shouldn't be victim blaming here. Give it a try at midmobile.com slash save whenever you're ready. $45 upfront payment equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three month plan only. Taxes and fees extra. Speeds lower above 40 gigabytes. See details.

All right, let's talk about the Cavs. The other big news of the last two days, Donovan Mitchell re-signed on a three-year max extension. The last year is a player option, so he really tacked on two years to his current deal with the Cavs. Nonetheless, that is a big win for Cleveland, who traded a whole bunch of stuff in draft equity and Markkinen and Sexton to get Donovan Mitchell. And now Markkinen has as much trade value as Donovan Mitchell had at the time almost. Yeah.

It's a big win for them. And I think somewhat improbably, all four of their core four guys are still on the team. And any trade chatter about any of them, including and especially Darius Garland, has kind of quieted. And I think that can be good for the Cavs. I think that, like, I don't know...

It was no secret that Darius Garland's side and Clutch would have been at least somewhat interested in a trade to get Darius Garland, quote unquote, his own team. You and I have talked about the Spurs as a great fit for that before. I think it's actually smart for them

And I don't know how prepared Darius Garland's camp is to really push for that right now. I think it's good for Cleveland to kind of chill and like, hey, can we let this thing marinate? Darius Garland went through a whole rough injury year, broken jaw, wired shut, all of that last year, clearly struggled to find his groove.

The Mobley-Allen thing, you know, there was injuries in the middle of the year. We took off when Garland and Mobley were injured. Then we had to reintegrate them. And oh my God, Mobley looked fantastic as a center against Boston toward the end of that series without Jared Allen. I think there's a really good team in here. And part of that is more time together for those four, more growth for those four.

individually, whether it's Mobley's perimeter game, Garland getting more comfortable with Mitchell around and all of that. And just like very strict minutes staggering, which we saw under JB Bickerstaff, who's gone and in his place is kind of a fresh voice, really good basketball mind in Kenny Atkinson, where you split up the guards, you split up the bigs, you have shooters like Struis, you bring Levert off the bench as a ball handler, Okoro still sitting there in free agency. I think this...

I think they're behind Boston, New York, and Philly, and we haven't even mentioned the Bucs. Just a top four seed in the East is going to be a fight for Cleveland. But I think that's okay. I think this is a team that's worth looking at for another year. And the Mitchell extension, for a small market team, I'm not going to sit here and be like, I'm not going to poo-poo that. It's a big win for the Cavs to get him to sign that deal, even if it's not as long as they had hoped. It's huge, yeah. I mean, I think to a degree, just the fact that

We were like a lobster in boiling water, ever so slightly.

I guess it was the opposite. We were being frozen because it was red hot when we thought Donovan Mitchell was going to get traded in December when this team was like a game over 500 and Garland and Mobley were both hurt. And then they played so well without them. And then very gradually, the temperature on Donovan Mitchell has cooled to the point where no one was really kind of surprised when he ended up signing this extension. But if you had told us that in December, it would have been a fairly shocking turn of events.

So yeah, I agree. It's great news for the Cavs. Even if Donovan Mitchell takes the strategy of, let me just lock in my money now and I can ask for a trade later, you're still trading him in a more advantageous situation than you would have been going into a potential walk year. So it's a good outcome for Cleveland. What's fascinating about the fit issues for the Cavs is if you look at it two years ago,

The group of four, those four players, Garland, Mitchell, Allen, and Mobley, they were awesome with those four guys. They had the second best point differential in the East after Boston. And they did that without any time together. And somehow they had more time together and got worse last year. And it was the period where Garland and Mobley were out, where they were able to put Mitchell at point guard and put

Jared Allen is the lone big man and put a bunch of shooting around those two guys. That's all of a sudden what started working for them. So I do think it makes sense to maybe give that some more time to figure it out. And I thought you said something interesting talking about the DeJounte Murray trade on your last podcast with Bobby Marks. And like, why did the Hawks not get nearly as much as the Nets did for Mikhail Bridges? Because that Murray contract, it's maybe not quite as good as the Mikhail Bridges contract, but it's pretty awesome.

25 million a year for a guy who I do think can be an average starting point guard in the league when he has the ball in his hands. But you said Atlanta had to make a move.

Cleveland at least has the luxury of not feeling like they have to sell low on Darius Garland if the offer isn't there. I do think there is a scenario where you replace Garland with a guy who's like only 85% as talented as Garland, but fits better with Donovan Mitchell. And you get the other stuff that the team is willing to give up because Garland could be an all-star point guard again in a different setting. And that would make sense for Cleveland.

But that deal is still going to be out there at the deadline. I don't think that's something they have to rush into this summer. Well, and I know they would love to get another three and D wing, a three and D wing. And obviously the Brooklyn guys are still sitting out there. I'm actually a little surprised that Cam Johnson and Finney Smith, one of them has not been traded yet. Um,

I believe the Cavs only have one first-round pick that's available to trade, the 2031 first-rounders. And they have salary issues, too. I mean, you look at the East. I mentioned I think there are eight good to great teams in the Eastern Conference, and then there's a line in the sand. The eight in no particular order, Boston, New York, Philly, Michigan.

Milwaukee, Cleveland, Orlando, Indiana, Miami. No particular order other than Boston gets to be mentioned first. And we're talking about where Cleveland could get top four. Orlando and Indiana are good teams. They're going to be pushing for that too.

Miami is a little bit more of a mystery box, but I think you can never count them out. And then there's a line in the sand and then there's like this Atlanta, Toronto, what's going on here? And then the bad teams. Chicago. They're in the what's going on here for now. It just feels like they have an incomplete right now with the DeRozan situation. And like, what is Vooch still doing there? Does any, I don't, it's like. They're troublingly close to the luxury tax. And the White Sox are not very good, right? No, they are. They are very bad. How are the Mariners doing?

It's slumping lately. We're leading the AL West by a lot three weeks ago, but not anymore. Apparently my New York Mets are playing pretty well. Just makes up for Croatia's disastrous performance in the Euros. Did you see what Croatia's soccer team did in the Euros? Well, I'm an Italy soccer fan, so I did. But it didn't work out super great for Italy. I mean, we're coming off, and I'm using we again. We're coming off second place in one World Cup, third place in the other World Cup.

Little nation of 3.8 million people up in extra time against Albania. We allow a goal at the end of extra time up in extra time against Italy must win game. We allow a goal in the eighth minute of extra time. The game literally ends. Like there's just no more game. I guess the refs just decided these FIFA refs. I'm going to be, I don't even know what the hell I'm talking about. These FIFA refs are just awful. Why did Italy have that chance? Why did the game just end? I don't understand why,

All right. Better that ref than the guy who was working the US soccer match the other night. I didn't see that, but I did see that we did not play very well and feel like we got robbed. It looked like, with all due respect to our buddy Richard Jefferson, if you actually had him out there in an NBA finals game, refereed. Yeah. Uruguay we lost to? Yes. I mean, Uruguay is good. It just is a very dubiously officiated. Yeah.

I don't understand soccer as a version to... I'm sorry, football. I don't understand football as a version to the clock. Like, we can't actually just keep real time. We're just, like, looking at watches and being like, I don't know, 7? 7? 7 sound good, everybody? 7? Well, it's been 7.35, but, you know, the game... Everyone seems to be having fun. Let's keep it going. Oh, Italy scored. Now the game's over. Jerks. Okay, Cleveland. So...

What is Cleveland's roadmap to becoming a finals-level team in the East? Is it we're young and we can try to kind of wait out

Boston, who's going to be incredibly expensive for like at some point they're going to have to lose one of these players probably wait out New York as they get super expensive and like we'll rise up into that wait out Philly and beads 30 whatever Paul George 34 rise up into the void. But but then you look at their cap sheet and they're like,

If they extend Mobley at the max, which is still pending, they're going to have like $160 million committed to four guys in 26-27. One of those guys is not Jared Allen.

So I, you know, like they're a very good team. I have a lot of respect for Cleveland. I just don't think I'm not picking them against any of those top three teams in the East and maybe not Milwaukee either in a playoff series. I mean, it's crazy that Milwaukee is just skirted completely under the radar. I know that they don't really have anything in terms of assets, but they drafted super young guys. They signed Delon Delon Wright.

I don't know, man. I'm worried about the Bucs. But what does Cleveland do here? What is their just see what this team is and see what the next move after that? Is that it?

Yeah, I mean, I think you outlined the case for being aggressive considering a Jared Allen trade that he's got two years left on his contract. He's going to be very difficult to resign if you pay Evan Mobley. I mean, Mobley developing into a star is their path. That's what they need to have happen. And unfortunately, as well as he's developed at the defensive end of the court, it just hasn't happened offensively. He is very gradually dipping his toe into the three-point waters of

needs to take the full-on plunge this season. That would help solve a lot of problems for them. But

Yeah. I mean, and look, there are worse places to be for Cleveland than, you know, we're probably good enough to make the playoffs. We've got a chance to, to win a series, even if we don't have championship level upside, but it is a little bit disappointing and given the excitement about this team when they first added Mitchell, I guess the other thing we should, you mentioned Bobley's extension and like Scotty Barnes is the only extension that's gotten done so far for that draft, that 2021 draft class.

there's a lot of interesting negotiations out there because Scotty is to me, the only guy who's like a no brainer max. Everyone else feels like we should have some negotiation here. Maybe we end up with a max, but we at least got to talk about it. Well, the athletic Kelly Eco had a piece about how Houston may not just do the thing that most teams do, which is hand the max to Shen Goon and green who are both eligible for extensions. Now,

I wrote a piece about Jalen Green before last season, and there's a line in there somewhere about how Houston's going to have to pay all these guys. You can't functionally – if all these guys hit or five of them hit, they have so many young guys now, seven young guys now that they've drafted Reed Shepard. You just can't functionally pay all those players if they all hit.

And I had a line in there about how you also can use restricted free agency to your advantage. You don't have to just be like, here's a 25% max with all the bells and whistles. Let's see what restricted free agency brings. Now, there's some risk. Remember the Jazz did that with Gordon Hayward and it resulted in a shorter deal. DeAndre Ayton, things were never the same in Phoenix after that. What is Portland doing, man? I look at Portland's roster and I'm like,

I understand it's been a difficult few years with the Dame thing just sort of maybe, maybe not, maybe, maybe not. What direction are we going? But you look at their roster, it's like, what's going on here? Did someone just pick a bunch of random NBA names and put them on the same team to see what would happen? What were we talking about? That does make me think of, you mentioned Atlanta on the last podcast and how they're just

This is the path you wanted them to take, but it still doesn't feel great them being there. And that's a little how I feel about Portland. Like just sometimes you get so far behind the eight ball, you can make incrementally correct decisions and still just not really progress anywhere. Oh, I remember Cleveland. You mentioned Jared Allen.

There's been all of this sort of like one of one of NBA Twitter's favorite fake trades is some kind of exchange of Jared Allen and Brandon Ingram for, you know, who's sending picks one way or the other. Brandon Ingram is a really interesting player. I don't think the Pelicans want to pay him that the full max, and I don't think they should. He presumably wants the full max, and that's what he should want.

I don't really like the fit of him in Cleveland with all the ball handling that they already have and his on again, off again, hesitancy to take catch and shoot threes in favor of let me hold it and come set a screen. I'll take a mid-range. I think Brandon is a very good player.

I'm fascinated to see what team, if any, ends up being the team that's like, you know what? We're the team that's going to give you what you want for Brandon Ingram, assuming the Pelicans want to actually trade him. I don't like there's been a bunch of teams rumored. Some people throw out. This is just speculation. Some people throw out Sacramento as a fun Brandon Ingram team.

I don't know that I love Brandon Ingram with Fox and Sabonis. I mean, he's a smart, heady player who can kind of play that bob and weave game with Domas, but he's an interesting player as the Pelicans have discovered. When you have other guys who need the ball, he's an interesting fit, to put it one way. I guess if we're discussing sort of a big picture thing, I wonder to what degree the lull we've seen since the first 24 hours of free agency or 36 or whatever it is,

Is teams waiting out the trade market because of the fact that there are all these combo forwards who are, you know, if you can get Lowry marketing, who is the cheapest of those guys in terms of the current salary and the best of them, then he's probably at the top of your list. And if not, then you're looking at Brandon Ingram and Jeremy Grant.

Like, is that what's holding things up right now? Because we haven't seen a meaningful, you know, like a non sign in trade since the DeJounte Murray to New Orleans trade last Friday. That's very unusual for this stage of free agency. I mean, by this point last year, I think rosters were like 90% set and it feels like there are all these question marks hanging over things right now. But yeah, I mean, yeah.

If, again, that's the comparison, I don't know where I would have Brandon Ingram on that list, even relative to Jeremy Grant, because I think for a lot of teams, Grant's defense and his willingness to be a catch-and-shoot guy makes him a better fit than Ingram would be. How real are either of those things with Jeremy Grant, his defense and his willingness to be a catch-and-shoot guy?

I think there to some degree probably functions of how much he's handling the ball on offense. And I don't know which direction because on the one hand, there's like the energy you're expending is kind of lead offensive guy when he got to Detroit as compared to when he was a three and D guy in Denver. But on the other hand, you probably do need to give him enough touches that he's willing to go do the dirty work there. You know, we should probably mention two other rather large NBA stories that have occurred. The Boston Celtics are for sale. I mean,

They have agreed to pay Jason Tatum the biggest contract in NBA history. They extended Derek White. I've already mentioned how I thought Derek White would take that extension instead of taking it to free agency next summer. I think that's a really nice move for both teams. They're going to pay Hauser. They're paying everyone a boatload of money. They're going to be in the second apron like a championship team should. They don't care, and they're just like, whatever. We're going to spend. We're going to spend. If our pick gets frozen and then dropped to 30th, fine. What are we going to do? We have a championship team. We've got to go for it.

The Boston Celtics are for sale. Like this is one of the iconic brands in all of global sports. It's Yankees, Cowboys, Lakers, Man City, whatever the other European soccer club, Barcelona, I guess. Like it's one of those teams, right?

I have no idea who's going to buy the team. I was disappointed to get the email from one of the odds makers that Bill Simmons is only a 75 to one shot to buy this, to buy the Celtics. He's actually behind Dave Portnoy. I'm like, I, you know, Bill, Bill's got to step it up if that's the case. Does Spotify buy the tape and install him as CEO? Is that the. Look, I got, if, if Bill buys the Celtics, if Bill's in the Celtics ownership group and he's going to control basketball operations, I,

You can get my letter for my letter of resignation is coming. Like I'm going and I, and I don't know what my job will be. It could just be coordinator of, of lucky mascot services or, or game entertainment or something. But then we'd all be fired in, in, well, if he's part of the ownership, we can't get fired. I'd get fired, but very quickly and come crawling back.

Look, I have no idea who the hell is going to buy the team. If the Suns went for $4 billion, the Mavs went for almost $4 billion. We're going to get to numbers here that are going to be crazy. The number six has been speculated about among sources who live in this world. There's only so many humans on Earth who, without help from a gigantic ownership group of partners, can supply that kind of money. It's the Boston Celtics, man. That's crazy.

Also, it seems like a great plan here for Witt Grosbeck if I get to keep running the team during the period where we have this title core together, but I'm not going to pay all the money

for the luxury taxes that are coming due because I'm going to bring in a smaller partner, you know, a minority partner at that point. And then they can take over in 28 and either deal with breaking the team up or them being even, even more expensive at that point. So I, I like the idea here. If they can pull it off, obviously the complications of Glenn Taylor doing something similar with Mark Laurie and Alex Rodriguez, uh,

loom over this potential transaction here. I mean, the interesting thing about the Celtics is for all their brand recognition, they're in a relatively unusual position among NBA teams that they don't control their arena, that the Bruins control the TD garden. And therefore, you know, they get the second choice of dates, not as, not as much revenue from games, that sort of thing. So the question of whether another group would try to buy the team,

Like a casino group built as part of a casino complex is kind of a fascinating one to me.

Well, that encore in Boston is going gangbusters. It's supposedly like the nicest hotel in Boston. There was some gambling activity there around the finals, not involving me. You mentioned it's Olympic season. The Olympics are starting soon. You mentioned you had a gold, silver, bronze free agency medal stand. I'm interested. I have no idea who's on it. Kevin Pelton, give out some medals.

So this is strictly free agencies. The New York Knicks are not on this metal stand, even though I think they've had a terrific off season overall. Although I would feel better about it if they had a backup center on the roster, I guess that's going to be pressing precious. The gold medal to me, I think we're in agreement here is unquestionably the Oklahoma city thunder.

You know, I don't know if Isaiah Hartenstein is the perfect player I would draw up in a lab to go with this young Thunder team. I was kind of fascinated by you mentioning Cam Johnson is a fit for them, given the size and shooting that he would bring to the table.

But he unquestionably solves some weaknesses, doubles down on a couple of strengths, and it's going to be fascinating to see how he fits with Chet Holmgren. And at worst, he becomes worst case scenario. He becomes a big expiring contract in 2025, 26 for them to utilize.

You know, again, this doesn't count getting Caruso, but then they, they re-signed, I say Joe and Aaron Wiggins using their small cap holds after declining the team options. And those are going to be contracts in all likelihood that started at their highest point, descend, have a team option at the end again. So a lot of flexibility for how they handle that.

They and Orlando are both kind of doing this dance where like, let's put as much salary now as we can to deal with the fact that we've got these extensions coming for our young players who are going to get a lot more expensive in 2026, 27. So loved, loved everything for the Oklahoma city, Oklahoma city so far this off season. I also would award them the gold medal. I'm not doing any research on this, Kevin. I refuse. I would venture to guess that no team in the history of basketball has been

so well positioned for the present and the future at the same time this is the best this moment right now for the oklahoma city thunder is the best position any nba team has ever been in in the modern era just in terms of like obviously the 90s bulls had the best team we knew they're going to win every year just in terms of like theoretical but like real possibilities in the present and theoretical possibilities and paths in the future like it's just astounding

what they've accomplished. I wrote about this during the playoffs and I think my measure was I looked back in all the times that we've been doing the future power rankings. Like was there ever a team that ranked as well in terms of current roster draft picks and salary flexibility and there was no track record. And that's before Caruso and Hartenstein. Right now, obviously they don't have the salary flexibility

now that they've cashed it in for hartenstein but i think you know i think they come into this season with the number two roster i think it's boston and then them who gets the silver

The silver medal to me, I mean, I think it has to be the Sixers. Still a work in progress here. Who's going to play power forward for this team? Is it going to be Paul George? Some interesting possibilities if they re-sign KJ Martin using his small cap hold to a big contract that they can potentially sign trade down the road. And that's how they could take advantage of

the first round picks that they have coming from the James Harden trade because otherwise if you're just using cap space, they're not really that useful to you because you just don't have that much matching salary. So still some work to be done, but look, they got Paul George. He's the first current all-star to change teams via free agency since 2019. And he's someone who just...

makes sense anywhere, and particularly on a team that already has two high-usage offensive players because even if he's not in a high-usage role, he's a 40% three-point shooter. And, you know, it's not... You mentioned him slipping defensively. The interesting thing is, like, the adjusted plus-minus shows him as still, like, the best wing defender in the league. I don't think I buy that. He wasn't on my all-defensive teams, but it's kind of fascinating that that data is out there. I mean, slipping is...

From prime Paul George to now, if he's slipped, Paul George is a boss. I always say it. If he's slipped, it's from A-plus to B-plus, A-minus. He's still quite a good defensive player. We had one of these either-or segments on NBA Today yesterday that it pains my soul to make picks like this. The question was, better shot to make the finals, Philadelphia or New York? Now I'm making you do it.

I think it's New York just because I do think it's going to be like we always see it with these rosters when they come together. It takes a period of time to reshape and fit everything around them. And that is a bit of a challenge for the Sixers in the second apron era because you can't do what like Miami did the year after all. They got all their guys together and go out and sign Shane Battier using the taxpayer mid-level. So.

I think New York, but it's a legitimate question. Oh, it's incredibly close. I mean, it pained me to answer because I'm like, oh my God, are you really going to make me make this call right now before the Sixers even filled out half their roster? I was the only one on set that went New York by the slimmest of margins. Just because Philly's got a better big three, Philly's top end talent is as good as anybody's in the league now.

I worry about their depth. And we saw that like having top end depth in New York is now trying to emulate that. What Boston has is very, very important.

And just that combined with like Embiid is always dealing with some ailment late in the season and has just not been that – like he's been very good in the playoffs considering the injuries but not good enough and in some moments not good at all, including game seven against Boston two seasons ago. And PG's playoff record has been up and down too. So I went New York by a hair. Okay, who gets the bronze? San Antonio Spurs. Another team that still has work to do. But –

Chris Paul for one year for 11 million to play with Webby? Sign me up. Yeah. I mean, this is a team that we knew desperately needed...

Point guard help. They just had Trey Jones at that position last year. You know, the Jeremy Sohan experiment didn't take. Stefan Castle now doesn't have to play there this year. He can play primarily on the wing. Same with Blake Wesley, who they were trying to turn into a point guard, but he's not really. And this is the way that, you know, if Wemby is...

ready to start competing and doesn't want to be struggling the way they did last year. It's a way to accomplish that without giving up any sort of future assets or flexibility whatsoever. Preston Pysh : I love it. I love it. We should end one thing. Kemba Walker retired.

One of my all-time favorite players to watch. One of the most fun ball handlers to watch. Just a blur of slick boxing combination kind of moves. Like he would hit you with three or four punches, but the punches are dribbles in a row. And you'd be like, what just happened? He used his lack of height to his advantage almost. He would get so low to the ground that you can't even reach him down there. And had just...

I think a four-time All-Star, had some incredible seasons in Charlotte. Obviously, he's a New York City legend. He is a college basketball legend. What he did at UConn and the Big East at the Big East Tournament is just all-time historic stuff. And just beyond that, one of my favorite players to interview and talk to in the league, always...

honest, willing to tell stories, willing to engage. Got, I think, just got everything about being an NBA star. I loved Kemba, loved his game. It's sad how fast his body fell apart. And now he's going to be on Charles Lee's coaching staff in Charlotte. He legitimately loves Charlotte. He has a home there. He wanted to make it his home. He's gotten really tight with a lot of people in the community there. I

I think that's an awesome story and an awesome sort of unexpected coda to Kemba's retirement. But I just wanted to shout out Kemba. I always loved watching him play and I'm excited for him to land where he landed.

greatest player in Hornets history. I was thinking of him the other day. You mentioned the Emmanuel quickly extension. And I do think there is a tendency for like a lot of these extensions for point guards in particular to age really well. Kemba was an example of that. He was someone who hadn't really like taken the step in his development and is a sign of the times. Kemba's extension that people thought was too high was four years for 48 million coming off his rookie contract, which is now less than the middle level exception. Yeah.

Mike Conley in Memphis was another example of that. There was a famous, I believe, Matt Moore rant about Mike Conley's extension that ended up being a bargain. So quickly, it's a lot of money. It's going to be harder to do that, but I will almost always bet on extending point guards who show promise. So my moment this week of that was Patrick Williams, five years, 90 million. When that came in, a light went out of my head and I was like,

Isn't that what Kevin Durant's first max contract was? The one he announced on Twitter that he was resigning with Oklahoma City. And according to the reports I saw, it was actually five years, 86 or 87 million dollars. And we know why this is happening. This is good for the players. This is fair for the players. BRI is increasing and so salaries are increasing. But Patrick Williams' contract is worth more than Kevin Durant's first max contract in the NBA. That's crazy. All right, KP. Okay.

Kevin, you've been grading pretty much every transaction worth grading. We did draw the line at Luke Cornett. It did not get graded, sadly. Right off the bat, man. 3.01 Pacific time. Luke Cornett's back, baby. Yeah.

And the analysis, given the speed with which you do it, is just second to none anywhere covering the NBA. What else do we have coming from you now that obviously any future moves you're going to be breaking down, but do we have other projects coming up to be on the lookout for?

Not specifically right now, but I'm sure as free agency continues, we'll do that. We did do a top 10 remaining free agents a couple of days ago where LeBron James is thus far the only player off that list who's actually agreed to a deal. Who's 10th? I forget who was 10th on the list. Was Buddy Heald top five? Buddy Heald was between six and 10. That reminds me kind of when you get to second team all rookie and the last two spots, you're like, okay.

We're getting deep down the rookie barrel here. Tenth was Luke Kennard. Okay. Not bad. Memphis, watch out for Memphis. Kevin Pelton, everybody. Thank you, sir. Thanks for having me.

Jim Harbaugh makes his long-awaited return to the Monday Night Lights. Touchdown, LA! And the Chargers add to their lead. As the Chargers meet rookie Marvin Harrison Jr. and the Cardinals in the down. Murray scrambling. Harrison! 60 yards, touchdown. Chargers-Cardinals. Monday, October 21st at 9 p.m. Eastern. Streaming exclusively on ESPN+. Sign up now at ESPN+.com.