Joel Embiid Extension, Knicks Center Rotation, and Lakers Coach JJ Redick!
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And now, The Low Post. Welcome to The Low Post podcast. Tuesday morning in Los Angeles. We have some news to react to involving Eastern Conference centers who my guests saw play head-to-head in what was, in my opinion, the most fun and entertaining playoff series of the entire 2024 playoffs. Not a great sign for the NBA that it occurred in the first round between the Sixers and the Knicks. My old friend and colleague from ESPN, now at SNY, Ian Begley. How are you, sir?

Zach, what's happening, my friend? That series was incredible to be there first person for so many different reasons. And I agree with you. It was a bummer that it was in the first round. Would have been fun in the conference finals. That's for sure. And it was a bummer that Mitchell Robinson, who we're going to talk about later, got injured during it. But we have to start with the news of last week. I have not done much on this yet.

Joel Embiid, as Bobby Marks indicated and I indicated was coming a couple of weeks ago, officially signed the three year one hundred and ninety three million dollar extension that keeps him with the Sixers into his mid 30s through as long as twenty eight, twenty nine. He has a player option for that season. You know, I am just endlessly fascinated by Joel Embiid. I've been endlessly fascinated by the Sixers for 15 freaking years. They've taken a lot of my brain away. They've taken a lot of my life away. Yeah.

They are under as much pressure to win this year as any team in the NBA after signing Paul George.

to round out a central casting perfect big three after rounding out their depth with one smart signing on the minimum and for whatever cap exceptions they had, Caleb Martin gets stolen. Andre Drummond comes to send to solve the, uh, just the endless backup to Joel Embiid problem that has dogged them in every single playoff series that they've lost. And even some that they've won and they still have a bunch of trade assets. They will. I would be shocked if they didn't make a trade in the middle of the season. Um,

We have been waiting for 10 years almost for the, I call it the Joel Embiid scorched earth playoff run. I've said for years, it's coming. If they keep giving him good teams, at some point we are going to see a Joel Embiid scorched earth playoff run. And I've been saying it for four years and we still haven't quite seen it.

injuries, ill-timed injuries and conditioning related to recovering from injuries, including last season against the Knicks when he averaged 33 points. I mean, it's like you want to nitpick this dude averaging 33 points on one leg after a late season knee injury, a quick recovery.

Late regular season, I think he played five games. One of those games, he had an injury scare against the Orlando Magic. I remember watching that game and being like, no, no, no. And now it's just kind of like, can the stars finally align? But you've watched him play up close against Mr. Robinson. You have heard for years,

The rumors that, well, if he ever were to, you know, ask out of Philly, maybe New York would be the place. That's obviously over for a multitude of reasons. What was your reaction to this deal?

It started with that, just being someone who's covered the Knicks for so long and I've heard all the whispers about Joel Embiid, Knicks president Leon Rose, Embiid loving the city of New York. You could put all that to bed for the time being. And so that was reaction number one. Number two was Joel Embiid now has...

I don't want to say a forever team, but he has his cast with him now for several years to come. When you look at Paul George, four-year deal, Tyrese Maxey, I believe the next four years under contract, there's not question marks around him in terms of the top players.

top three of this roster. Whereas in the past, it was Ben Simmons, question marks there. James Harden, I thought he might have been in Philadelphia for a while. Obviously, it didn't play out that way. But now there's stability there with the top spots in this roster. And I thought the Sixers did a really good job filling things out behind those three guys. And if healthy, they're going to be a really, really tough out in the Eastern Conference. It's incredible to think back just a year.

And Embiid for his entire Philadelphia career has essentially known nothing but chaos. And I mean carnival-esque chaos at all levels of the organization. He's had a just constant carousel of co-stars and would-be co-stars. Jimmy Butler for half a season, great fit. Okay, bye-bye. Tobias Harris stays. Ben Simmons stays. How did that make sense? Nobody could really explain it. Ben Simmons, you mentioned. James Harden, you mentioned.

The MVP and a year ago, it was like, how long is he going to tolerate this? How long is he going to tolerate an organization as, as one of the top three players in the league is a perennial MVP candidate that just could not get it together. Just what you could explain all the individual instances away one by one. But if you're Joel Embiid and you've lived this, it's like, I don't, at some point I don't care anymore about the one by one individual explanations. And that is why,

The MVP of all of this, of all of this happening, of the stability you're talking about, of Joel Embiid finally being able to look around and say, okay, can we just keep the team? Because this team makes sense.

The MVP is Tyrese Maxey. One of the most important developments in the NBA over the last 18 months has been Tyrese Maxey picked in the twenties by Daryl Morey and Elton brand developing way ahead of schedule into an all-star, a legitimate all-star, an all-star who frankly looked more comfortable than anyone else on the Sixers with the ball late in those games against the Knicks, obviously made that crazy three in game five to keep the series alive for Philadelphia. Yeah.

Tyrese Maxey gave Joel Embiid a roadmap to sign this contract. And we should not forget that amid all the discussion of Embiid and his legacy and his playoff legacy and his career and all the twists and turns of it. This twist and turn doesn't happen without Tyrese Maxey.

There's no question. And look, I would never want to speak for Tyrese Maxey, but when he did not get that extension, that offseason, I think there was some frustration of people around him were just wondering, well, you know, what's next? And this was a big, big risky move by Daryl Morey. You all know how this league works. When a high...

elite player is up for a deal, doesn't get the deal. There's always potential for things to go sideways. And I give Darryl Moore a lot of credit because he had a plan with waiting on the maxi extension. He stuck to it. He landed Paul George. Now it's all about health and

and the back end of this roster. But to me, they've put themselves in great position here to really thrive in this Eastern Conference and to give Boston a run for its money if they're healthy. And this was a deal, by the way, this is one both sides have to do. If you're the Sixers, obviously this guy...

is already in the all-time pantheon of Philadelphia 76ers, has not won a title, nor did Charles Barkley, Moses Malone, Dr. J, all those guys won titles, but he's going to be in that pantheon. You re-sign guys like that, injury risk aside, and the injury risks with Embiid are getting scary just because of the repetitive nature of the knee issues now.

And that's why like, this is a deal. Joel Embiid should take too, because he's getting to that stage of her career where you put $200 million in front of you. Like, yeah, I'm 30. I've had some repetitive knee injuries. I got to take, I got to take this deal. Um,

They can absolutely win the title if they are healthy. I would be shocked again if they don't make some kind of midseason upgrade at the trade deadline. Andre Drummond, Eric, we can go through all, we don't have to go through all the minimum signings. The Drummond one in particular, just to stabilize those non-embeed minutes could potentially be huge. They've got some size issues at the four. We'll see how they deal with that. But this is a team that,

can win the championship if they are healthy. And sometimes there's nothing you can do about being healthy. There's nothing you can do about John DeComingo falling on your knee late in the season when you don't have time to really get your conditioning all the way ramped up. There's nothing you can do about Pascal Siakam breaking a bone in your face in what was essentially a decided playoff series against the Raptors in 2022 and

knocking you out of the first two games against the Miami series that you then lose. Sometimes there's nothing you do. What you can do is stay in the best shape possible and just decide as an organization and a player, I'm not pushing for the MVP anymore. I'm not going to play an enormous like minutes load all the time. I'm not going to like go hell or high water for the 65 game threshold. If it's, if it's dicey, if it's going to be close, I just got to prioritize health in the playoffs because of these three dudes with a good supporting cast and

get to the playoffs healthy, they can beat anyone. The Knicks, they can beat them. The Celtics, yeah, even the Celtics. I'd pick the Celtics if they're heads up and healthy, but they can beat the Celtics.

Yeah, there's no question. And the thing that I go back to, too, is whenever those Nick, Joel Embiid rumors would pop up, you know, it was always kind of hot air, more hot air than substance. And I checked in a couple of times with Philly and there was one instance where I think Embiid, as he is wont to do, sent out a tweet in the aftermath of one of the Sixers offseason moves and everybody kind of went into a tizzy. And I checked in and Joel Embiid after that had contacted Darryl Morey and said, hey,

I'm here. You know, I want to be here. He kind of reaffirmed his commitment. And the conversation on those two is kind of like having a Derek Jeter-esque career in Philadelphia where you're there for your entire career. Obviously, to have that Jeter-esque career, you need to win. Joel Embiid knows that. The Sixers need to know that.

The Sixers know that, but they are in a very good position here to be healthy going into the postseason because you look at Embiid being off the floor. You have Max, you have Paul George, you have enough shooting to be competitive on offense when Embiid is resting. First of all, Ian Begley should know that

the New York Mets meant past tense the most to me of any sports team until I kind of siphoned them off just because my brain couldn't handle being a devoted fan of the Mets anymore. Now they're obviously, now they're obviously very good. Again, I wrote about this for Grantland shortly before Grantland closed down. Um,

I'm going to have to contemplate a six month ban for you on the podcast for just mentioning Derek Jeter's name. Okay. Don't do it again. Don't mention Paul O'Neill. Don't mention Andy Pettit. Don't mention that back throwing, bat throwing, you know,

anger management roger clemens throwing the bat at mike piazza i don't want to hear any more about it okay do we understand each other don't mention game one of the subway series don't mention timo perez don't mention any of it i don't want to hear it that's where i was going timo perez it could have been so much different poor timo i've said before if the baseball gods had come to me and said hey we will guarantee the mets win the subway series we're taking your right thumb

I would have said, yeah, like, no question. I get to have that for the rest of my life, that World Series. I can deal with without a thumb. Okay. Embiid. Yeah. Embiid's career is just endlessly fascinating to me. I mentioned the scorched earth playoff run that hasn't happened.

Regular season, Joel Embiid, 28 points, 11 rebounds, three and a half assists, three and a half turnovers, 50% shooting, 34% on threes, 56% on twos, 28.5 player efficiency rating. So 28 and 11, good shooting.

Playoffs, 25 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists, almost 4 turnovers. Negative assist to turnover. 46% shooting. 29% on threes. 51% on twos. 22.2 player efficiency rating. 6.5 points lower than his regular season total. Even factoring in that many superstars, if not most...

tend to have their efficiency dip a little bit in the playoffs when the competition is fiercer, the minutes burden is enormous, the fatigue factor is enormous. That is a much larger discrepancy than...

you would expect for a player of Embiid's caliber. And, you know, there I'll go back to what this supporting cast is right now because, you know, I think you can survive an Embiid bad turnover game or a poor shooting game because you know, even at his worst,

He's going to get to the free throw line. He's going to get you in foul trouble. He's going to rebound the ball. And if he's bringing the ball out to his teammates and they're knocking down shots, I think this group, more so than any other group that has been around Embiid in the past in Philly, can survive a bad shooting performance from Joel Embiid, can survive a sloppy turnover game from Joel Embiid. But still, Zach, your point remains. He needs to be outplayed.

dominant in the playoffs. He needs to have that big sustained run where injuries aren't getting in the way, nothing's getting in the way, and he's putting the team on his back more often than not and lifting them to a place where they haven't been before. And yet, Ian Begley, one of the reasons it's so fascinating is that you can look at those numbers and say, huh,

Okay. Slightly disappointing. Hasn't gotten out of the second round. Then we can go series by series year by year, but like just last year against the Knicks, they lose in six games. He's recovering from an injury, clearly fatigued at the end of games, could not get a rebound with Isaiah Hartenstein on the floor when it really mattered. 33 points, 11 rebounds, six assists, four turnovers, 44% shooting, 33% on threes. Not great.

In the fourth quarters in that series, he was 6 of 26 from the floor with 9 assists and 5 turnovers and really almost single-handedly lost them game 5. I shouldn't say that. His crunch time turnovers in game 5 of that series were almost so devastating that A, they took the ball out of his hands late, and B, it was almost enough that Tyrese Maxey's miraculous crunch time play could not save them, but it

He barely did. And yet the theme of Joel Embiid's career in that series, the Sixers with Embiid on the floor, plus 46 with Embiid off the floor, minus 47 in 67 minutes. Oh, my. It is hard to be that bad in 67 minutes. And that harkens back. We can go through it. 2019, the Kawhi shot series, the seven game heartbreaker.

Joel Embiid looks like an awful series. 18 points a game, 18 points for Joel Embiid, nine rebounds, three assists, four turnovers, negative assist to turnover ratio. Again, 37% shooting. He's sick in that series for parts of it. He's injured for parts of it.

Plus 90 in 237 minutes with Embiid on the floor. Minus 109 in 147 minutes with Embiid off the floor.

Now you can chalk that up and we can go. Do you want to play this game in the Atlanta Hawks series in 2021? The Ben Simmons past series? Sure. Embiid plus 51 in 262 minutes minus 31 in 75 paltry minutes with Embiid on the bench. This is the story over and over again in some of these series. And that series, the average 30 a game, again, a negative assist to turnover ratio, six,

16 turnovers combined in Game 6 and Game 7 in that series against the Hawks.

So it's hard to parse this like 16 turnovers in two games that they lose. That's a disaster. But the plus minus numbers are enormous. And you want to say, well, that's really about the bench and the backups are really bad. And so they hemorrhage these points. True. Plus 90 and 237 minutes against the Raptors. That's like you've balled them with Joel Embiid on the floor, despite the fact that he's not even playing well by the numbers, because on both ends of the floor,

He is such an all consuming dominant presence that his impact can transcend some of those numbers. And yet you wonder, you cut a couple of those turnovers. You make a couple more shots. I know the ask is enormous, but do some of those series go differently? Not to mention the collapse against Boston in 2023, when he just no showed game seven and didn't get the ball at the end of game six. Um,

And you saw it up close in some of those crunch time moments against the Knicks last year. He didn't look super comfortable with the ball late in games. I mentioned game five late in the game. Game four, he had a sort of not bizarre, but he had an open jumper to get them within two with 30 seconds left and passed up on it. Pump faked and kind of flailed into the lane and missed the layup.

You saw it up close, right? He sometimes didn't look super comfortable. He did not late in those games. And I think, you know, the injury injuries, I should say, because I think he got poked in the eye too early in that series. And he had Bell's palsy. Yeah, right. And that, yeah, that was aggravated. So, yeah, there were injuries. There was conditioning. I think the conditioning showed itself late in those games.

I remember, you know, Mitchell Robinson, who we're going to get into a little bit later. He did a really good job, by and large, against Joel Embiid because Embiid was having a lot of success against Isaiah Hartenstein. And Mitch Robinson came in and did well. And then there were some precious Achua minutes, too, where the Knicks as a team defended well with Embiid on the floor. And they were able to get him uncomfortable late in these games. And I think conditioning had helped.

a lot to do with it, but you give him credit and you wonder with Embiid, where was he in these fourth quarters? I do think though that that plus minus stat for the Sixers in this series in particular, maybe if Nick Nurse sticks with Buddy Heald in that game six a little more in the second half, the numbers would have been a little bit different, but hey, I

I know the Knicks fans are not complaining. That decision that had a big impact on that series, believe it or not. Well, there's no question that fatigue. I mean, I rewatched some of Ben Bede's post-ups this morning from games four, five, and six, particularly the late ones in game five. And there's no, he's just gassed. And Mitch Robinson pokes the ball away from him a couple of times. Just super uncharacteristic. No playing with no force. He's just completely, completely gassed. But even so, like you mentioned, Buddy Heald.

I mean, a lot of the Sixers offense was host Joel Embiid on the left block, one shooter, often Tyrese Maxey, or sometimes Buddy Heald in that one game on his side of the floor, everybody else on the right side, and force the Knicks to rotate around the floor and tag cutters and all of that using just the threat of Embiid to open up hockey assists and three passes down the line. And that's why I'm so fascinated by this because the raw, the sort of traditional stats of

don't don't match the plus minus stats and the impact stats and it's hard when you really zoom out to know exactly what to make of all of it um

On the other hand, there's enough disappointment. Like the Boston series is just flat out. The two years ago, game six and seven is, and they win game one without Embiid. That's a flat out disappointment. The 16 turnovers against the Hawks is a flat out disappointment, but you zoom out and it's like, it's just hard to parse all of this data that points in contradictory ways. You add in the eye test, the 50 point game against the Knicks. It's just been a fascinating career. And again,

He hasn't had the signature playoff run yet. He hasn't really had a signature playoff moment yet. Maybe the airplane, you know, against Toronto. He had a buzzer beater a few years later against Toronto. But...

I think all NBA fans should root for it because it's easy to forget all these years out. Like this dude's career is a miracle. It's a miracle. He missed his first two years, two straight years with foot injuries. He was red flagged in the draft for back injuries. He's had all of these repetitive injuries throughout his career.

The fact that he has been this, I mean, I remember his preseason debut in 2016, two years after he was drafted, was a capital E event. I went out to a bar in New York against Boston. It was against Boston. I went out to a bar in New York with a bunch of NBA buddies, guys who worked for teams. We were like, can you switch the channel to the preseason game on ESPN? And they were like, it's football season, preseason. They're like, yeah, preseason, Joel. Like, so you just hope that he gets one

thing where all the stars align.

Yeah. And look, this is, I think Darryl Morey has put him in the best chance that he's had yet to succeed. And it comes down to a little bit of luck with the injuries. I'm also interested in off the court thing, but what he said about the Sixers fans and kind of expressing his disappointment, I think it was, it was after the final loss in that series. Does that linger for the home crowd at all? Do they continue to love and support? He's just, he's got almost,

Almost carte blanche, and he should. Like I said, it's a miracle. He is the process. I mean, he really is almost standing alone as the remnants of the capital P process. Shout out, Hinkie.

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Okay, let's talk about the team that you cover. Mitchell Robinson is going to be out for, you can tell me how long you think it's going to be with this recovery from a foot injury. The Knicks obviously lost Isaiah Hartenstein in free agency, so their center position is now down to Precious Achua, Jericho Sims, and the sort of Julius Randle slash OGN and OB at the five thing that Tibbs has rarely used. How bad is this? How long are we looking at?

Well, when somebody I spoke to said December, January, and then they said kind of just depends on how the rehab goes. I go to January. You know, that's where I go with this thing, because Robinson's injury history, the complicated nature of getting a seven footer all the way back.

from a foot injury, particularly when he's already injured his other foot in a significant way. It's difficult. You talk to medical people, trainers, they talk about just the added steps, the added time that it takes to get somebody like that all the way back. Yeah, so I'm going December, excuse me, I'm going January here. And look,

I don't think that this caught the Knicks by surprise. At least I know for sure that they were telling people in August that they didn't think Robinson would be ready for the regular season. And now here we are. It's a more definitive timeline right now. But they knew, they had an idea at the very least that he wasn't going to be around in late October. So it makes you wonder why they didn't.

go more aggressively in addressing this if they knew he was going to be out for a bit, if they knew Hartenstein was gone and they're left in a tough spot here. And it's going to be, unless they make a big trade, you know, in the preseason and training camp heading into the regular season, which I wouldn't expect. I would expect them to kind of sit tight here and see how things play out. It's going to be a big adjustment for Tom Thibodeau to go Julius Randle at the five or

OG and an OB at the five. He didn't want to do it when OB Toppin was here. Obviously, it's much different now with the defenders that you have on this roster when you're putting Randle at the five, but it's not something the Knicks have done often. And Tom Thibodeau has had a lot of success with these

These two big centers, the depth they've had at center, going back to Mitchell Robinson, Nerlandz, Noel. So this is going to be a big adjustment for Thibodeau and the group to kind of tread water as you wait for Mitchell Robinson or as you wait for that December 15th date when you can start to talk trades about players who signed a free agency.

Yeah.

Yeah, I don't expect a big move here. I mean, if you look at the roster, right, what are your big, who are your big salary players and who would you move? Josh Hart? No. Dante DiVincenzo or even mid salary players. Dante DiVincenzo? No. Mitchell Robinson? No trade value right now. So Julius Randle would be the only guy where you can move and do a kind of a dollar for dollar trade, which is what they would have to do where they are in the salary cap right now. So I don't see a big move coming. I

I'm with you. That's kind of what I'd heard is that they they feel like, hey, we've got enough here to get through and let's kind of assess it and see where we are. And I would assume, though, even if they're playing well, come mid-December, I assume that they are going to be making phone calls and seeing who's available, who they can maybe procure, because ultimately this team is strong.

the championship windows open and you're not going to go where they want to go. I don't think with their current depth at the center position. Yeah. Mid-December is a key date because a lot of the players in the league can't be traded until then. The guys who signed over the summer, a lot of them, most of them can't be traded until around mid-December. Um,

You mentioned Randall. I mean, I did a whole episode a couple weeks ago outlining like here are some fake trades where the Knicks could ship out Randall and get back value that would include a potential starting caliber center. It's hard to find one that works. Do you think they roll with Achua as a starter or do you think they just go like, let's go right into starting Brunson, DiVincenzo, presumably Bridges, and an OB Randall?

I would think, you know, especially because Randall, you know, will he be ready for opening night? I'm not sure.

That's another issue, by the way. I kind of – I just – my brain baked in like he'll be ready for opening night, and now I keep hearing maybe not. Yeah, I don't – I mean, I think he's not going to push it. I would assume they're not going to push it. I don't think anybody on either side sees opening night as the kind of be-all, end-all. But I think because of that, if I were to guess, I would guess Jericho Sims –

as the starting center opening night uh and then you know you keep precious to true as your backup five and you you see how that flows i mean if randall can look like the pre-injury randall by opening night maybe it makes tom fibro's decision a little tougher i just don't know if he will be there uh with his rhythm and his conditioning at that point when they play up in boston on ring night i didn't anticipate sims being the answer to this question

That's an interesting one because he is, he can mimic the roller lob catcher part of the role that Mitchell Robinson brings.

a heart and staying was not a roller lob catcher but he was a roller floater passer so like that that achua is not really a threatening roller in any of those ways so sims at least brings one of those ingredients which is an interesting transition because i actually think the knicks are going to miss mitchell robinson more on offense than defense um he is

The best offensive rebounder in the NBA. He was number one two years ago. He rebounded 20.7% of the Knicks misses last season. That would have been number one in the league at equalified. It would have been a third all-time single season ever in the entire history of the NBA behind, I think, one Rodman year and one Drummond year. And the Knicks, even last year, they were number two in offense overall.

They were 16th in effective field goal percentage. This is the Tibbs machine. Now they shoot more threes than they did earlier in the Tibbs era, but they are an elite second shot offense. Offensive rebounding is a huge part of their offense. Those offensive rebounds lead to threes and free throws. And they have never been, under Tibbs, a great shooting team. And they make up for it in every single way possible on the margins. Low turnovers, high offensive rebounds, high free throw rate.

And Mitchell Robinson's offensive rebounding is a huge part of that. Isaiah Hartenstein was an elite offensive rebounder. Sims has been okay in limited minutes. Like that's a huge ingredient for them. And it almost makes Randall more important to me because they're going to need some boost of shot creation and manufacturing of offense without that ingredient. I mean, Mitchell Robinson is okay. Was, was okay. Defensive last year. I thought just okay is usually pretty good.

I actually think this is going to hurt them more offensively than defensively. Yeah, I felt the same way, but I, you know, I checked in kind of with people around the situation. That was one of the first things that I mentioned and it was tamped down a bit, uh, just because, uh,

I think that people I spoke to, at least not speaking for the whole entire organization, you know, felt that offensively they would be OK despite not having that element. And that element, as you mentioned, Zach, it was brought by Robinson. But after Robinson went down, it was also brought by Isaiah Hartenstein. He did a fantastic job on the offensive glass. So maybe, you know, the system lends itself to your big team.

getting offensive rebounds and maybe the fall off there isn't as great. But that's one of my bigger questions here in the wake of this injury is where do those second chance points come from? And if they're gone, like you said, who's going to create and who's going to make up for that deficit? Because you really thrived on that last year and you've thrived that way for a lot of the Tom Thibodeau era. Again, I'll go back to when Robinson got hurt. I think it was Tibbs' injury.

Second year, first year, second year. And then they they had New Orleans Noel and he played really well in that spot and he helped them get to the postseason. So they've survived without Mitchell Robinson. But I just wonder, given the roster construction, if you can maintain the level that they've had in the past with their current cast of characters at the five.

Well, look, I mean, you just have to get the points a little differently. And I'm not like sounding an alarm bell like the Knicks are going to fall from second to 20th in offense. They have an elite, elite isolation player in Jalen Brunson. They have a very good isolation player in Julius Randle. Those two had, I thought, better chemistry last year working together in the two man game together, even with Brunson screening for Randle.

All that stuff will be more effective in lineups where there is no center, where Randall is the center because the spacing around it will be better. They're going to have hopefully a full healthy or some version of a healthy-ish season for OGN and OB. They obviously traded for Mikael Bridges, who's a very good player, and showed in Brooklyn he can do some of the heavy lifting. So there's ingredients there to lean on. I'm just saying if you fall from second to 10th in offense, let's say, 10th is still very good. And

Your defense is, they were like, what, 7th, 8th, 6th, something like that last year. Your defense hovers around, you know, 10th, 11th, 9th.

In part because your rebounding suffers maybe without, without just without as much size, that's still a very good team. Like if you're, if you're low top 10 on both ends of the floor, you're going to win 50 games, probably in the NBA, if you're healthy. I will say just the margin for error in the East to get home court in the first round, it's a little early to have this discussion because we don't know who's going to get hurt, who's going to play well, what injuries are going to hit, but yeah,

But I'm a believer in all three of Orlando, Cleveland, and Indiana as potentially 50 win, 48 win, 52 win if a lot of luck happens. I think all those teams are really good. And if they all are really good, chances are one of them will take an injury here and there that hurts them. But if two of them hit their ceilings...

The margin for error maintaining a top 3-4 seed, if you assume Boston's here and Milwaukee's still around, it's not huge, even for a team as deep and as talented. And I'm very high on the Knicks fully healthy, but they are not fully healthy anymore.

They aren't. And where I go with this, too, is you talk about regular season wins. You know that that's a priority for the Knicks and Tom Thibodeau. But how much can you prioritize it given where your roster is now, given your long-term goals, making a deep playoff run? Do you have to sacrifice some regular season success, some seeding in the end? No!

No, no. Next question. Next question. This is what I'm going to hear September 30th on Media Day when we talk about this because it's not Tom Thibodeau's DNA to sacrifice a regular season win no matter the situation. We saw it in Game 82 last year. They were going all out to beat the Chicago Bulls final game of the regular season so they can sew up that second seed, and that obviously worked out well for them. But I just wonder...

the attrition of an 82-game schedule, six-month regular season. Do you have to adjust the way you approach the minutes? Not to be the minutes police, as Tom Thibodeau loves to call us, but do you have to make an adjustment there given what your roster looks like at the moment, even though, again, it may be different mid-September, early February, if you make a big deal? I mean, look, I've been thinking about this too. You know, the Knicks still have

If you include Sims, they still have a pretty strong nine-man rotation. We haven't mentioned Deuce McBride, who I think really proved himself last year as a reliable rotation player. That's still – you throw in a campaign, whoever, what maybe one of the rookies plays. You can get to 10-11 and work some guys in.

You just don't want to in the absence of any. And by the way, none of this accounts for like what if somebody else gets hurt for two weeks, you know, which will happen. You don't want to just burn the team out in December and January if you can help it.

And I do think, and we talked on NBA Today yesterday about, well, could one thing the Knicks do if and when they play Randall at the five, could they switch more on defense because they have a bunch of big wings? And I think we could see something like that. But you have to, like Jalen Brunson is still on the floor. Are you going to switch with Brunson? Are you going to switch everything but Brunson? Because Jalen Brunson's big and strong and plays super hard. He's like a human cinder block, but he's going to get beat up

and targeted if you're going to go to a switch heavy scheme and that's going to take a toll too so I do think although it's cliche to sort of we got to monitor the minutes and monitor the workload I do think that's potentially something to monitor

I'm with you. I'm with you. And I think that, you know, Tom Thibodeau to his credit has adjusted, I think significantly year over year. And you look particularly at the offense and the way that he adjusted, I think post Randall quickly in an OB trade last season, it just looked a little bit different and he's adjusted again, every off season, there's some new wrinkles offensively. And so I don't think that the,

The idea that he's some dinosaur fully stuck in his ways is fair at all because that hasn't been the case here in New York. So is he open to maybe another adjustment on minutes, on workload over the course of this regular season? I'm sure at the very least, it'll be a topic of conversation behind closed doors with he and his coaching staff in the front office. And it's going to be something that captain of the minutes police, myself and some of my fellow beat writers will be on top of that over the course of the year.

Oh, boy. The minutes police. By the way, on Embiid, to circle back to Joel, like I said, the playoff record is a little bit checkered, a little bit hard to parse. There's no question how dominant he is as a player. More points than minutes last year. And I forgot to mention, you know, that Serbia game to me. I keep repeating this. Mm-hmm.

We talked about how he looked a little skittish with the ball against the Knicks. Just a little bit. Not like Ben Simmons level. Just a little uncertain and crunched some of those games. Probably because he was exhausted and injured. Mm-hmm.

And the Olympics weren't great. The fit wasn't great. But that game, I keep talking about it because that game, what he did in the fourth quarter with Team USA's entire Olympics on the line against the best team designed to beat them and the best player in the world, what he did in that game, wanting the ball, demanding the ball, looking poised and powerful with the ball, I hope that carries over because for me, that was –

That was a game I won't ever forget, especially if it carries over into this year because that was –

maybe the finest moment of Joel Embiid's career. So I hope it carries over. I hope he stays healthy. Ian Begley, any parting thoughts on these Eastern Conference big men? I would say one thing, center market, obviously Valanchunas' name is going to be out there because of who he plays for. But I think Washington, if it has its druthers, would hold on to Valanchunas. I know that defies logic, but I do think that that could be the case. I would look at Portland, obviously.

who is playing there, who's getting the minutes between the rookie and Robert Williams and DeAndre Ayton, who's not getting minutes, who becomes expendable. Keep an eye on that. And I'm sure there are plenty of other situations that will develop there when you look at this trade market, when the Knicks are going to be keeping an eye on it, that's for sure, as they try to weather the storm without Mitchell Robinson. Well, I've talked about those.

Those two guys you've talked about and I've talked about Walker Kessler in Utah. There will be others. I don't even know what druthers are. I don't know what Washington's druthers are. They can have whatever druthers they would like in, what is it, late September. I would bet my own druthers, whatever they are, that if they got a good offer for Jonas Valanciunas, they would trade Jonas Valanciunas. Whatever they say their druthers are now, I don't believe it. All right, Ian Begley, just top-notch work.

Please, we will do, the Low Post podcast committee will convene and discuss the punishment for the Derek Jeter mention. But we always appreciate your time. Love having you on. I can't wait to see you at the world's most famous arena. Likewise, my friend. Look forward to it. Always great to be with you. Ryan Reynolds here from Intmobile. With the price of just about everything going up during inflation, we thought we'd bring our prices down. So

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Visit BetterHelp.com to learn more. That's BetterHelp.com. Oh my God, look who it is. The head coach of the Los Angeles Lakers, JJ Redick. How did that happen? Did not expect you to come with that energy off the gate. I did not expect that.

Well, you know what I did not expect? I think I first met you during the lockout when you were still on the Orlando Magic, if memory serves, before your epic stint with the Milwaukee Bucks, which followed shortly after that. We met in New York City. You were living in Soho.

I think I had a beer and you had something healthy, not a beer. And if you had told me little, little young Zach, little young Zachy in 2011, this guy's going to be the head coach of the Los Angeles Lakers and you're still going to be covering the NBA. I would have said that seems completely implausible. Has it is how quickly does it just set in that? Like, did this is new normal. You got your routine. You're just all in is this is already feel normal.

Yeah, it does. It does now. It feels normal now. And obviously the season and games and, you know, nine months of stress and anxiety that that that's going to be different. But in terms of the feeling of being the head coach, the L.A. Lakers, Los Angeles Lakers, like it, it's set in. I would I would say there still are days where it like feels a little surreal, but it's

When I first got the job, Rob kept calling me coach and it was driving me crazy. And people kept addressing me as coach and I was even some of the players. And I'd be like, nah, just call me JJ. But now I'm coach. Now I'm coach. I'm comfortable with it now. I'm comfortable with that moniker.

Interesting. By the way, Zach, if you had told me in 2012 or 11, whenever that was, it was 12 when I was living in Soho, that I would be a head coach in the NBA, I would have said, you're crazy. It was not like for most of my NBA career, coaching was not a thing that was even on my radar. When did it come on your radar? I would say towards the end. I enjoyed it.

I enjoyed having a leadership role when I was with Billy and with new Orleans. And then when I went to Dallas, uh, I spent a lot, I was solo. My, my family was still in, um, in, in Brooklyn that year. I spent a lot of time with Rick Carlisle and, uh, I would say more so than anyone else. He probably put the, put the seed in my brain that the coaching would be something I would enjoy. And so even, uh, over the last year and a half, I, I,

Won't go into names, but I obviously named him Rick. But, you know, there's been four or five coaches that have been really helpful to me. Name one. Give us one. Rick. I just said Rick. Another one. I mean, Joe and I have gotten pretty close. Missoula. Yeah, yeah. Former guest of yours on the show.

That's kind of honestly that when I was up there to film the episode, you know, I got to spend a lot of time with him and we talked a bunch during the season and he he's a stud, man. He's a stud.

Yeah, it turns out immediately judging him based on his first few months taking over in a crazy situation may have been hasty. But as you know, there will be no patience with you. This is the Lakers. Like you didn't take your first job at some market where losing is OK. You're rebuilding. This is the Lakers with LeBron James, Anthony Davis. This is a Lakers team that fired Frank Vogel a couple of years after winning a title that fired Darvin Ham a couple of years after making.

The conference finals. And as you mentioned, I'm sure you're – I mean, I know how hard you work. I know how competitive you are. I'm sure you're super well organized. You got the machine rolling. You got your staff. You got everything planned out. But the games are going to start coming fast and furious. Random stuff is going to start happening. Injuries, lineup decisions. Like, are you nervous? This is a pressure-packed job, as you know. Are you nervous or are you like, I just actually want to get – hit me with all this crazy stuff and let me just feel it?

I wouldn't say nervous. I would say every day since June 20th, I have felt alive. And I'm certain that I will feel even more alive once we start playing games. There's an inherent focus with certain franchises on winning championships. I happen to coach one of those teams.

And I'm acutely aware of that. And that's fine. I want to win a championship. I said that at my press conference. I think where I got to in my life and what I'm trying to do here with our culture is to be about the process and really embrace the things you can control, the input, so to speak,

Because I'm a firm believer if you do that, that you will get results. And if you look back at the history of the NBA, there are very few championships that have been won where...

There wasn't – Doc used to use the word luck and everybody got mad at him for saying that. But there is some luck involved. He said that to me, by the way. That was at grandlad.com. Yeah, that's right. It was right after the Warriors won their first championship in 15. And that's not to say the Warriors championship in 15 was lucky or they were lucky. But when he was talking about luck, that goes into –

you know avoiding your star player getting banked up in the playoffs it's obviously avoiding major injuries it's it's an outlier hot streak from a certain player within a playoff series like there's a lot of things that have to go right and not a lot can go wrong to win a championship um so having said that the mindset we have to create is about

Embracing the process of trying to get better every day, being super detailed, being super organized, having structure, giving players freedom within that structure. We talk about it as a staff all the time. We always have to be able to explain the why.

why we are doing something. And, you know, we're going to start building out our base systems over the next, you know, 30 days as we get ready for the season. Those things can evolve. And obviously as you get into game planning, you have to be able to do a bunch of different things on a night-to-night basis that maybe are different than what your base system is. When you were rumored to be a candidate for this job,

I can't imagine what your phone was like because my phone was exploding with people asking for introductions, rumors. Hey, can you get me on the phone with JJ? But a fair number of those people were also asking questions.

Is he sure he wants this job? People seem to get fired from this job a lot. And LeBron is almost 40 and Bronny is maybe probably going to get drafted there, which creates a whole other universe of coverage. You must have had people in your life who were expressing that same kind of like, are you sure, JJ? You got like a pretty good thing going. Like, you know, maybe if it were Charlotte, you'd have a five, six year runway. But this is the Lakers. LeBron's 40. Like, you sure this is a good idea?

There was a broad spectrum of people that tried to talk me out of coaching in general. And then there was, you know, with each rumor or job opening, even the ones that I was not rumored to be a part of, there were reasons why people were trying to tell me it was a good or bad idea. Ultimately, this was a decision that I wanted. And, you know, I have a performance coach that I've worked with for a number of years. And I remember, you know,

talking with him uh in in june um right around the start of the finals and i can't remember if there's you know this was before the danny hurley news broke or it was after the danny hurley news broke and danny hurley was returning but it was somewhere within that time period and um i was just like man you know this is something that i want i want to do i recognize all the things that come with it and i'm totally okay those things actually make me excited um

And I said to him, I said, you know, I hate using the phrase like this could be a once in a lifetime opportunity, but that's what it feels like. And he said to me, you know, the thing is, it probably is a once in a lifetime opportunity. There's no guarantee that you ever would get a head coaching job in the NBA. I mean, I just was at the coaches meetings earlier this month in Chicago and I'm in the room and it's like that's a surreal moment. Like I'm in the room.

I'm in the room meeting with Adam Silver, meeting with Monty McCutcheon, around 29 other guys that have a head coaching job in the NBA. And he's like, this could be your only opportunity. And once I realized that is true and it was something that I wanted to do, I didn't have any reservations about taking this job, particularly after I got to know Rob and particularly after I did my in-person interviews after game four of the NBA Finals.

When I left Los Angeles and took a red-eye back to Boston to get ready to call game five, I was like, this is what I want to do. I want this job. Had you heard the name Dan Hurley in reference to the Lakers job before Woj tweeted it the morning of game one of the finals? No, no. I actually, I was, we had a later production meeting that day.

And if you don't know this, there are probably people that do know this, but I am in retirement from the NBA. I became obsessed with golf.

And so I was at your studio where you have the fanciest in-house virtual, virtual golf simulator I've ever seen. Yeah. So actually, I reached out. Actually, somebody reached out to me on Instagram and was like, hey, if you're ever in Boston, I would love to host you at the country club where they had the U.S. Open a few years ago. And Matthew Fitzpatrick won.

and uh so i i kind of worked it out with him and because our production meeting was later that day i was like i'll just i'll just play first thing so we got the first tee time it's you know 7 a.m 7 15 something like that we teed off and i think i was on like the 13th or 14th hole and i hadn't looked at my phone the whole time and you were the first text i saw really all right and i was like oh okay um

It was not, I would say like, it was not surprising. Like, you know, this is as a, as an organization and as a, as a, as a front office, like you have to explore every opportunity. I, I didn't, I wasn't offended. I wasn't, my feelings weren't hurt. I think more so than anything in that sort of like first wave of news was like an assumption that he was going to take the job. And obviously he didn't, which was great for me.

Have you spoken to him since all this happened? I have not. You know, it's interesting. Luke Murray, he reached out, I don't know, sometime during summer league. I think it was, it was, it was after July. It was like, Hey, Danny wants your number. Can I give it to him? And I was like, sure. But he hasn't reached out, but I'll, you know, I'd be happy to talk to him. He's got a million other things he's got to worry about.

What's that week like? So, I mean, we were around each other that whole time during the finals. And I very on purpose was like, I'm not going to bug JJ about this because his life is – this is unfolding in a very public way while he is on a very public stage. But like on a very mundane level, like do you have – do you try to sniff out like how serious is this interest? Do you call Palenka and be like, wait, what happened here? Or like what is – just what is living that like for you? Yeah.

Yeah, that's a great question. It was a, I would say that entire three or four months, starting with like the Charlotte Hornets interest in interviewing me all the way through getting the job offer with the Lakers. It was, it was really interesting because I,

As you know, like I had a lot of, a lot of things happening. I was doing the old man and the three, I was doing the old man and the three things I was doing mind the game with LeBron. Uh, I was calling NBA finals games, uh, or calling playoff games. And then I was also in, uh, coaching rumors and particularly with the Lakers on top of that, um, the Lakers get talked about a lot. And so, um,

people that I worked with were then talking about me and the Lakers thing. Um, and it was like, it was a little bit of a challenge. I have a high capacity and a high bandwidth to compartmentalize and kind of do a task and work through. It was really hard, a hard time period to sort of compartmentalize because there was so much overlap between everything. And, um,

you know starting with the the charlotte thing i just made the decision that i was just not going to talk about it publicly um and i was just going to do my jobs all four or five of them whatever they were at the time i was just going to do the job um comment on the nba um and then whatever was happening you know with in relation to any coaching things i was just gonna kind of take a back seat um

Very quickly, you said Lakers get talked about a lot. This is maybe a stupid question. Have you talked to your kids about what this is going to be like? That daddy's going to be talked about on TV a lot and some of it's going to be negative if we're on the losing streak. They might have friends. I hear this from coaches all the time. Friends make comments to them in school. Have you had that conversation with them? No.

The first part of that conversation, nothing serious. I know it's going to happen. I've let them know. I'm sure you just saw what happened with Dan Campbell having to sell his house because one of his daughter's classmates, I think, leaked his address or something. I saw a tweet. That's all I saw. Yeah, after they lost in the playoffs, his home was being pranked and harassed.

Yeah, that's like an ongoing conversation as long as I'm a coach that I'm going to have to have with my kids and Chelsea. Going even back to the day I was offered the job, my kids were at Duke and they were at Duke basketball camp. And so it was spread across four gyms. It was the practice facility, the Wilson Center, car gym, and then Cameron. And they were in different age groups.

And I literally got the job offer, you know, talk with my dad, talk with my wife, talk with Rob and Jeannie. And it was like, this is going to happen. And I like was rushing all around Duke's campus trying to find them because I wanted to tell them first because I

There were older kids there that had cell phones. There was all the parents there. There was all the counselors there. Everybody had cell phones. I knew this was about to break. And I was like, I have to find them and tell them. And even that was hard because, you know, they knew what that meant. Right. They knew it meant leaving Brooklyn. They knew it meant leaving their school. They knew it meant leaving their friends. So even just doing that was not an easy conversation.

Let's talk about the actual team for a minute, a few minutes. Have you settled on a starting five? Yeah. Yeah. It'll be the starting five that went 23-10 last year. D'Lo, Reeves, Rui, LeBron, AD. Yeah. What do you think – when we see you and your staff put your stamp on how that lineup plays –

offense, defense, whatever, like what are some things you hope that we see or what are some things you intend? I mean, you've talked about LeBron playing off the ball. A lot of coaches have talked about that. You've talked about shooting more threes. A lot of coaches have talked about that. What do you think is realistically possible? Yeah, it's funny because I think when people hear that in regards to LeBron playing off the ball, it doesn't mean he's not going to have the ball. Like LeBron is one of the smartest players and I think using him as a screener and as

finding ways to get him the ball in specific spots on the floor where he can be a facilitator and a scorer. That's what I mean by being off the ball. I don't mean LeBron's going to walk the ball up and get ball pressured at 94 feet and he's going to run a high pick and roll every time. That's what I mean. That's not how we're going to play. Um, I think in terms of what the offense looks like, um, there will be a decent amount of movement, um,

The shot profile will hopefully improve. We've talked about ways to create more paint touches. We've talked about ways to shoot more threes. We've talked about some of the leeway that you have to give certain players with their mid-range shots, whether that's in the post or isolation.

But hopefully the shot profile improved. I think from a possession standpoint, one of the margins this team created last year and historically with this group has been free throws. Outside of that, there hasn't been a lot of margin creation. So we're going to try to create some margins, one of which is we're really going to emphasize offensive rebounding, corner crashes. So, yeah, I mean, I think...

I don't know. I'm not comparing that to any previous coach or previous system. But those are some of the things that will look like a team that I coach. Now that you're in it, in the team, talking about shooting more threes and ways to open the floor,

Do you have a sense of like what happened to Anthony Davis's jumper since the bubble? And is it, is it just, this is just what it is, you know, every year, like he should shoot X number of threes a game. And it just hasn't been the same since then. Do you, or do you just not care and want him to be around the basket? I have a theory around that. I have a theory around that. Not one I'm willing to share publicly. I was going to say you're on a, you're on a basketball discussion currently. I have a theory on that. Um,

And you know what? If my theory proves correct, I'll share it with you later in the season. But I have a theory on that. Have you had the conversation with AD about the all-defense ballot? Yeah, he had no idea what I was talking about. Really? Yeah, he was like, I didn't even know that. I was like, yeah. That was easy. AD and I, obviously he was...

in, uh, with the USA basketball team, I went to the semifinal game in Paris against Serbia and I would have stayed for the championship, but it was my kid's birthday party. So I got back for that. Um, had a, had a, I've spent some time with them. Um, went to a lovely dinner in Santa Monica a few weeks back, but, uh, yeah, I mean, we're going to, we're going to empower him as much as he wants to be empowered. I mean, if he wants to be,

first team all NBA and he wants to be in the MVP conversation all year long. We're going to empower him to do that. I said this last week.

Everyone has talked about JJ's the new coach. That's a thing. Offensively, this team's been pretty mediocre for a lot of LeBron's time there. That's a thing. Defense with D'Lo and Reeves. And I said, look, I've said for a long time, I'm a believer in that lineup you're starting. And obviously LeBron's age and the potential health issues that could come up, that's always an issue. But my biggest concern about your team on paper anyway is depth beyond that starting five.

You know, Gabe Vincent is ready to go, right? Yeah. Yeah. And after that, it's kind of like young untested guys or guys who have kind of been shoved to the fringes of rotations in almost every prior stop they've had, including Jared Vanderbilt, who, you know, the playoffs come and he his minutes dwindle because of his jumper. Yeah.

How much of a concern is that for you? And is there a player that maybe is more ready to step into a bigger role than, than people know about? Yeah. Um, I would say depth is not a concern. I would say just overall health and availability is more than more of the concern than anything. Um,

We've had a number of guys that had injuries last year. We are going to have to manage in some capacity LeBron and AD. And I don't mean that in terms of health. I mean that just in terms of availability. That's just the reality. I actually think, based on everything I've seen since Summer League,

like we're gonna have to make tough some tough decisions um in the rotation because there's a number of guys younger players that have really improved over the last two and a half months that when we've had our you know small group workouts and our sort of player development games um that have really played well and have really grown and sort of embraced how we want to play and um they're gonna have a chance to to earn a spot in the rotation and you know even even just with like dalton dalton

To me, I told him this the other day, he's in the 1% of shooters. He's in the 1%. He has a skill that you just, it's hard to find. He's going to have a chance to earn a spot in the rotation. Jalen Hood-Shifino's had a great summer. Max Christie's had a great summer. We obviously, we want the guys that were hurt last year to be able to play a full season. So I think it's more availability than it is just overall depth.

What is the plan for Bronny? The plan for Bronny? Yeah. Is the G League going to be a part of it? I think you've said that before. Yeah, I would – look, we hired Zach Guthrie. All we have talked about – As your G League head coach, to be clear. As our G League head coach, Zach is working on finalizing his staff. All we've talked about in the interview process with him and since he's been on board –

is just creating synergy and integration. So the G League is not a demotion by any stretch. We are in the same building. Like we should be the, we should be the model for integration between the late, you know, the NBA team and the G League team. I look at,

Zach as an extension of my staff, I look at that team as an extension of our team. I would expect us to use the G League for very specific reasons. And look, I think Ronnie is a young guy. I'm very high on him as a basketball player. And he's, I said this at his press conference, I said, he's kind of like our first coach.

Player that we get to mold and help develop. And so we're going to look at the G League as a tool in our player development system. How much – pressure is the wrong word. There's obviously going to be a craving of –

a sentimental craving for the first moment that father passes the son or son passes to father do you do you is that something we could see opening night like is that is that like do you feel again pressure i'm not pressure is not the right word but do you feel do you feel that expectation from fans from people who come up to you on the street like oh man that's going to be so fun when that happens and it could it happen right off the bat

Yeah, nobody's really talked to me about that, like Randos. No Randos have brought that up. People will ask, obviously, about Ronnie and sort of what he's like as a player and all that stuff. But in terms of that moment, yeah, we've talked about it and we've thought about it and we'll get it done. I don't want to commit to anything right now, but that's going to happen. It's going to happen sooner rather than later.

I know what you're going to say, but what's a realistic expectation for this team? Is a finals appearance a realist? Do you view the West as that open? Yeah, I would say it goes back to what I said earlier. I've already let go of any outcomes. So the expectation that we have internally is that we're going to establish –

our core values and identity on both sides of the basketball. And we're going to hold our team accountable to that. And I believe in this group. And if we do that, I think we'll be in the playoffs. And I think we'll, we'll have a chance to compete. Have you been included or will you be included in,

in trade deliberations when certain players become, I'm not, don't, I'm not asking you to name names of certain players become available or potentially available where you be in the room, like full, full blast on that. Like, Hey, we have these two picks and this and whatever. Rob and I established in the interview process and, and we have executed this, uh, in our time together. Like this is a, this is a partnership, um,

between uh ownership with genie and and rob in the front office and me as the coach and uh whether it was draft night free agency any sort of discussions we've had uh in the subsequent months um i've been involved in those i mean that was something that we both wanted and uh we've lived that out um

You mentioned Doc before. I can't – I have to ask about it. Doc said in June, maybe May when you were a candidate for the job. I think a little bit tongue planted in cheek kind of –

I hope it'd be great if JJ got a coaching job because then he'd kind of understand all of the things that he's complained about on podcasts about coaches before. That comment is A, obviously you and Doc have a very specific relationship in history, but you have heard and I know that you have heard, people have said it to you, the noise about –

skipping the line, so to speak. Do you feel extra pressure for that reason? And you saw that doc comment, I'm sure. Did you kind of smirk at it? There was no emotion that happened when I saw the doc comment. I didn't care. In regards to skipping the line... I use that phrase sort of in air quotes. No, no, no, I know what you're getting at. Yeah, I mean, I think...

There's a little bit of a misconception around the idea of someone deserving something or someone not deserving something. Ultimately, it is an organization's charge to find a coach that's the right fit for that team and that organization with whatever skill sets they may have.

I would love for certain guys that some guys I've played for, I would love for them to have the opportunity to become a head coach in the NBA. I brought this up earlier. There's only 30 of us. It's a very hard thing to do. There hasn't been a moment that I haven't felt an extreme level of gratitude. And yes, I feel lucky. I feel lucky that I got this opportunity. But I know I deserve this opportunity as well. And it's not because I...

spent seven years as an assistant coach. It's because I've worked my ass off on this craft of basketball for the last 32 years. And I'm in this position because of that, not because I skipped the line. What did you learn about the way basketball media works that you didn't know or that surprised you, good or bad, from being in the basketball media as closely as you were? I would say...

Most of it is really good. I think the Mind the Game podcast was like a little bit of like a, I don't want to call it a test run, but a little bit of like a theory, just confirmation of a theory that I had for like three years, which was basically there is a group of people that doesn't just want to be entertained by basketball media. There's a group of people that

would love to be educated and love to learn. I still have people coming up to me and like, I thought I knew so much about basketball. Then I watched the show and you guys are speaking a different language. And I think I used the analogy before. It was like, there's nothing wrong with sugar, Zach. Sugar gets you high. Sugar makes you feel good for a moment. Sugar can be entertaining. There's nothing wrong with that. There's a lot of people that want sugar. That's okay.

There's also people that maybe want a more well-balanced meal, maybe a leafy green salad. And maybe that group of people isn't as big as the group of people that want the sugar. That's okay. And I was, I was pleasantly surprised by the response that people had to mind the game. And yes, I'm aware part of it is because I was getting to talk basketball with LeBron James. That was my phone. No, I, yeah, I'm aware of that. I'm aware of that. But, um, so that was, that was fun. Um,

Yeah, I don't – again, the take industry and sort of asking the same question over and over again just in a different way. Didn't always love that. But overall, I had a wonderful experience. I have gently – joked is not the right word. I mean you had a career –

You made the playoffs every year of your career until when? What was the first time? The streak ended at some point, right? Yeah, in the bubble. First 13. Pelicans, right? In the bubble. And then I guess I made the playoffs in Dallas. You did? No, no air quotes. Veteran leader. Hashtag veteran leader. Yeah. It was 10 games I played or whatever it was. You won a lot. You got far lots of times, but you never got the ultimate prize. And we have talked on previous podcasts about the Sixers and the shot.

about the Clippers and just the whole Clippers thing. And every time I say the word Clippers, I could just see the, that it's still a gut punch to you. So we don't need to belabor that. I know you don't want to, um,

It did strike me as I was preparing for this. Like, wait a second. The Lakers actually were the cause of the very first NBA heartbreak of JJ Redick's career in the 2009 finals, which were much closer than people remember, at least in terms of game competitiveness. And I went back.

And I said, let me see where JJ is when Courtney Lee gets the layup to potentially send game two of the finals into overtime. And there you are running around on the left sideline is kind of maybe a decoy or a second option. And then I was like, let me see where he is when Derek Fisher hits these threes to tie game four, when it could have been two, two, but then ultimately win game four and kind of blow the series open. And you weren't, you were on the bench during that time. Um,

I mean, there's no irony is the wrong word. Now you are the coach of the Lakers. Have you, have you thought about that series at all since like, since taking this job? It's so weird that I, I, I hadn't thought about it at all. And then my wife was like, let's watch legacy on Hulu, which is a 10 part docu series on Dr. Jerry bus and the bus family. And the past, I guess, 44 years since they've owned the team.

And of course that series it's talked about in that. And I, I like put it together. I was like, Oh, the closest I ever got was, was destroyed by the Lakers. Yeah. So that was nice just to get reminded of that feeling, you know, that was nice. There, there, uh, you are, you are, um,

You are right next to Hayden Turkoglu when he blocks Kobe Bryant at the end of regulation in game two and blocks him from behind to send the game into overtime. Or was it to send the game? But was it game two to send it into overtime? I think it was right. Maybe it was. We got blown out. We got blown out in game one. Yeah. Yeah. That layup was was game two. Game three. We won game four. We were up five with under a minute to go.

We lose that game, and then we just – Kobe closed us out in game five. I may not get this opportunity again. Is there a Donald Sterling era – is there not a Donald Sterling story, like I want some salacious story, but is there a – when you're in the thick of the Sterling era,

thing exploding and the V Stiviano tape coming out, the playoff run, which ends in the second round against Oklahoma city in an all time crazy ending or crazy series. Anyway, is there any story from that three months of your life that you haven't told that you could tell? Yeah. That I haven't told. That's a great question. I think, you know, it was, it was interesting around that time was,

I really had no idea just how close we were to boycotting the games. Like we were really close. And I think there was a, cause we had talked about this as a team. We had talked about this in smaller groups individually at a dinner or after practice or on the bus. Like there was a, there was a group of people, not just on our team, but just like I'm talking about across the NBA. That was like pretty hard stance, like,

shouldn't play these games unless the league does something. Then there was a group of people, even on our team, that were just like, hey, man, screw this guy. This is not why I play basketball. I want to win with my teammates. It's not why I don't train for Donald Sterling. I don't compete for Donald Sterling. I compete for me. I compete for my teammates, whatever. And it wasn't until after the fact that I found out that we almost didn't play basketball

multiple games. Obviously, there was a very quick decision that sort of led to us kind of being back on the court in terms of Donald Sterling getting banned. But the moment that I think about more than anything, because it was that year and then it was 2015 when we got down 3-1. The moment that I think about more than anything was just like game five in Oklahoma City where

We had that game one. We played a little bit of stall ball. We couldn't execute offensively. Kevin Durant hit some ridiculous shots. I mean, he hits a tough three and then kind of had this like meltdown a little bit down the stretch. It's 2-2 for people who don't remember. And you're about to go up 3-2 at game six. On the road. On the road. Game six going back to L.A.,

And, you know, CP, he made a few mistakes down the stretch. And, you know, it's like CP just became like a brother to me during our time. And someone that I competed against and like, you know, we didn't like each other. And then we become teammates, become brothers. And I just, the moment that stands out the most to me was the bus ride after game five back to the airport. And just like that.

The frustration that he felt and the look on his face and the, I want to call it empathy that like a lot of his felt because he was, you know, our leader and one of the greatest players of all time. And he just had like a bad moment. And there's, there's never been anyone that's been around CP that's ever questioned his desire to win a basketball game. The guy wants it more than anyone. I have the ultimate respect for him.

I just remember that moment on the bus. Did you say anything to him? Oh, yeah. We didn't say anything to him immediately on the bus. We certainly talked about it the next day. We had to regroup for game six. Game six, by the way, we get up like 19 in the first half, and then Kevin Durant goes ballistic at the end of the second quarter, and it's like a five-point game at halftime. I mean, Jesus, man.

There's a reason people are so interested in that team. It's because for a three to five year period of time,

You were a legitimately elite team and could play with anybody. And you have the Warriors rising over here and you have the crazy Sterling thing and you come so close. There's inexplicable. We've talked about the Houston series before. There's a reason. But now you have a chance to write, help write another chapter of Los Angeles basketball history on the other Los Angeles team. Are there any parting thoughts you would like? You know, I have to ask one more question. I just have to.

When did you and LeBron James first discuss you coaching the Lakers? Yeah, I said this at my press conference. I guess there was a strong reaction. People thought I was capping. Is that the correct term? People said that's cap? I think I've... I think I mean you're lying. Yes, I've learned that. I've got that one down. No, it is. This is the honest truth is I...

I got the offer on Thursday, June 20th. And at, I don't know, 1130, I go to lunch with my dad. We sit down for lunch. We order our food. My kids were on a lunch break. So we just walked across campus to the Washington Duke, the little inn there, and sit down for lunch, order the food. I said, Dad, I got to go make one phone call real quick. And there was a phone call with LeBron. And that was the first time that we had talked about

the possibility of me coaching the Lakers. And obviously I informed him that there was an offer made and we, we had a 15 minute phone conversation. I hung up the phone and I went back to my dad. I said, okay, okay. So you're doing, you're doing mind the game throughout all this. You're sipping wines of various vintages and hues. And then the podcast ends, you're walking out saying your goodbye. It just never comes up. Like LeBron's like, Hey man, you know, Charlotte, if that doesn't work out, like it just literally never came up. I think I made a coy joke.

on one of the episodes about something. And I was, I mean, and he laughed and that was it. I mean, it was just, I look, I didn't, until it was real, I didn't feel like it was something that needed to be discussed.

And yeah, no, look, there are very real. It's real now, Zach. It's there are reasons why one would not want to talk about it and barriers get put up and all that stuff. All right, JJ, I've taken too much of your time. You now coach the Los Angeles Lakers. Congratulations. It was I will say I will say this. I will say this. This is my parting thought. I can't remember when it was in this process. And this is this is also the truth.

We were in the playoffs and typically in the playoffs, you know, when we were doing the podcast, we really liked having on media personalities to talk about the game. We pretty much did that every year. You know, we had Wendy on at one point. I know Stephen A came on at one point. So we asked you to be on the podcast and you were like, I'll do it. I can do it.

But you have to be you have to give me your first podcast interview if you get the Lakers job.

And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll do it. I'll do it. At no point in time in me agreeing to this that I actually think I was getting the Lakers job. All right. So let me be clear. I didn't think this interview was ever actually going to happen. Let me be clear to people why I said that. And I was semi-serious at least. I don't like to do that. But the reason I did that, if you'll recall, I did your podcast at the beginning of last season. Yes. Kind of a season preview thing. Yes.

And I kind of stupidly thought, well, JJ calls games for us. Like, I don't need to get this approved by our ESPN PR apparatus. Then the podcast comes out and your social team is throwing clips all over the place. I get a call from ESPN. They're like, hey, what are you doing? Like, you got to get that approved. That's outside media, you know? Like, what do you mean outside media is JJ? Well, JJ's podcast is not an ESPN podcast. So I got a little...

slap on the wrist and I was afraid of another slap on the wrist. So that was my carrot to ESPN to, cause I wanted to do your pockets. I like going to Brooklyn. I took excuse me to go to Brooklyn. I hadn't seen your new studio. I like to hang out with you. And that was my excuse. That was my, I could tell ESPN. We're like, don't worry. This is going to come back to us. And now, uh, four months later, it's come back. Yeah.

to us well i will i also i also i i can't guarantee this but this is probably you know i knew i had to do this at some point and i was going to honor it and i obviously appreciate all the times you came on my podcast but say this is probably probably going to be it for me for a while for a while and mitch is over here laughing in the corner because he's going to come ask me to do something i'll be like mitch is it mandatory

No? Okay, then I'm not going to do it. By the way, the biggest thing you ever... I've come on your podcast a bunch of times. You've come on mine a few times. By far, none of this...

nothing you say today will go as viral ish as when you came on and described in great detail the kidnapping of deandre jordan in free agency because i i had you right on on right after that and like that was podcasts were like early we weren't even looking there was no zoom we weren't like over the phone and i was just like jj just give me like the

blow-by-blow and you were like everyone was loose and nobody really cared what was on Twitter and you were like yeah here's exactly the blow-by-blow of all the stuff that was happening with the barricaded door and the fake chair all that stuff all right you now you coached at Los Angeles Lakers I will see you I won't be a media day but I'll see you for a opening week good luck best to your family and buckle up it's gonna be fun all right I appreciate it thanks Zach for the first time Monday Night Football streams exclusively on ESPN Plus

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