Free Agency Bonanza, PG to Philly, OKC lands Hartenstein, End of an Era in Golden State, Lakers' Options
01:45:37 Share

And now, The Low Post. Welcome to The Low Post podcast. It's bright and very early on the West Coast. Free agency is underway. Paul George is a sixer.

Chris Paul is a spur. Clay Thompson is not a warrior. There's lots of other stuff going on. Oklahoma City just made a couple of very interesting small deals for Isaiah Joe and Aaron Wiggins that could portend more stuff happening. Bobby Marks, it's been a whirlwind, my friend. How are you? I'm good. I've never experienced two words that have scared so many billionaires. You know what those two words are, my friend?

Second apron. Second apron. The two teams that have spent nine hundred and fifty million dollars the last four years in luxury tax penalties have certainly put the checkbook away for different reasons and certainly understandable. And yeah, I would say the new CBA has made things quite interesting here.

You know who's very happy about the Clippers three times in one of the most bizarre press releases I can ever remember any team releasing saying goodbye to a player before he had signed anywhere in Paul George referencing in that release three times the new CBA aka the second apron.

who's really happy about that is the cronky family who gets to say hey we lost last year we lost contavious caldwell pope this year but we're not cheap see the super duper rich guy over here i know we own like 17 sports teams but the super duper rich guy over here is also complaining about the second apron and christian brown i don't know if you guys saw christian brown like he's

Just can't shoot like KCP, but he's ready. We got Julian Strother ready to take his minutes. Everything's cool. Like, Nikoli Okic is in his prime. We think he might not even realize this is going on. Like, we might be safe from the wrath of Nikoli Okic. He might be riding some horses and drinking some beer in Serbia. He may not even know this is happening. Nobody tell him. Nobody tell him we did this again because it's apron time. I'm going to buy an apron.

For my backyard barbecue. You know what would be funny? I'm surprised. And I'm actually saying this serious. I'm surprised Lowe's... I should get a... I'm going to have to get my agent a sponsorship with Lowe's or Home Depot.

Right? Lowe's is a natural for this guy right here. I mean, it's my family company. I do this just for the kicks. We got breaking news. We got breaking news. Let's start with breaking news right now. We got breaking news. Isaiah Hartenstein, three years, $87 million to the Oklahoma City Thunder.

Okay, I don't want to start with Isaiah Hartenstein because it's not the biggest story for agency. But Isaiah Hartenstein, To the Thunder, three years, $87 million. I believe that creates one year, 26-27.

When Hartenstein will be on the books with Jill and Williams new deal and Shet Holmgren's new deal and obviously Shea Gildress Alexander already on a max. So that's a one year window where they're going to have a lot of high salaries, correct? I would say, yes, I agree that I would say I wouldn't be surprised if there's some type of team option in there.

Could be. So let's just do Hartenstein quickly, and then we'll come back to it. I said yesterday on NBA Today, the entire Western Conference was praying that Oklahoma City would strike out using its cap space because they got Caruso for Giddy. That's a short-term upgrade. They just re-signed Isaiah Joe, four years, $48 million. Aaron Wiggins, five years, $47 million. Unbelievable deals. I don't know how they do it. Unbelievable contracts for both of them.

And then they had this cap space left over and they use it on Hartenstein who will usurp the Jalen Williams role as backup center will presumably play a decent amount with Chet Holmgren, which can work because of Chet's versatility on both ends of the floor.

and Hartenstein's passing. His passing on the roll will add another layer to the thunder. And the thunder very quickly in a week have transitioned from, okay, the playoffs are a laboratory. We got to wait and see how we look, what we learn about ourselves. Okay, we learned that Josh Giddey doesn't really fit with this team into we're going full bore for the NBA championship in 2024-25. We'll have to see how all of this shakes out.

who signs where and what, but I mean, you'd have to consider them the favorites for the number one seed again, if not the flat out favorites to come out of the Western Conference with another year of seasoning for these guys. But we have to start with Paul George. Yeah.

Paul George signs the Max four years, 200 and whatever million with the Philadelphia 76ers. The Sixers this morning re-signed Tyrese Maxey on the much-anticipated five-year Max extension. They have re-signed Kelly Oubre into their room exception. They have Andre Drummond on board as a great backup to Joel Embiid, a movie we've seen before. Eric Gordon.

probably is going to have a hug on the airport tarmac with Daryl Morey today because Daryl Morey just can't resist getting his old Rockets buddies back together. Maybe Trevor Ariza is available. I don't know. The Sixers are loading up. The top of the East is going to be an absolute slugfest. The Celtics have raised the bar and the Sixers are trying to come up with them. The Knicks are trying to come up with them. But by the way, that's the other subplot to Hartenstein that we should talk about is the Knicks backup is the Knicks center situation. Yeah. Yeah.

And I don't want to belabor it now because it's early in free agency and there's stuff to do. But if I'm the Cleveland Cavaliers and I haven't signed Mitchell to an extension yet, maybe that comes to me. It doesn't. I'm like, oh, boy, everyone above me just got really good. The Amtrak corridor on fire. Team Lowe loves it when the Amtrak corridor is on fire. If I'm the Heat and I have this butler going into the last year of his contract situation looming over my head, I'm like, ooh.

I mean, I know we're the Heat, and we just, like, find a way sometimes. And, yeah, we won game two against the Celtics, and Jimmy Butler gave a boisterous sideline interview that didn't work out for him. So we're going to go up 2-1, blah, blah. I don't want to hear about the Celtics. And then a team that has barely been talked about,

The Milwaukee Bucks, like just watching everyone around them load up and they got nothing going on. I'm just saying they got nothing going on. They seem to just be counting on, well, just be year two of these three dudes together with the coach that came in halfway through a chaotic season will be good. But I want to start with Paul George. You want to talk Sixers first or Clippers first? Let's talk Clippers first.

So here's so so obviously, Bobby, everybody knows the trade and the trade is already today as people are dunking on the Clippers being framed as Paul George for SGA, Gallinari and 17 million picks, one of whom became Jalen Williams, by the way, the good Jalen Williams, another of whom became Hame Hakes Jr. But we all knew at the time and we know now that was a trade for both Kawhi Leonard and Paul George. Effectively, five years together.

It's an unmitigated failure. There's no way around it. They did not succeed. The bar for success is higher than the first Western Conference Finals appearance in franchise history. This team, in five seasons, won three playoff series. If you had told me on that morning in July when the literal earthquake struck Las Vegas or the Southern California-Las Vegas area and Paul George and Kawhi went together to the Clippers that they would win three playoff series in five years...

I would have said that's a cataclysm. There's no way that that's true. They have not won a playoff series since 2021. I would like to repeat that. The LA Clippers, paying all the luxury tax you just mentioned, have not won a playoff series with Paul George and Kawhi Leonard since 2021. Kawhi Leonard has not finished a season healthy since the bubble in Orlando where they choked against the Nuggets and gave up a 3-1 lead.

It's a failure. There's no way around it. Here's what I'm confused about, Bobby. And here's what has not been right. I know you're I know where you're going because we've texted about this. So the Clippers in that bizarro press release and in previous messaging mentioned the second apron. Like we're just terrified of second apron. Second apron is so scary. Like we just can't we can't can't just mess with the second apron. Mm hmm.

So, all the reporting by Woj and others, and I've heard the same, is that the issue with Paul George was the fourth year, right? Like, they were willing to offer a three-year close to max, not a four-year max. I don't understand...

How that haggling over the fourth year and the second apron rationalization matchup, because if you're willing to pay Paul George for three years and you're willing to pay James Harden for two years at 70 million, which is frankly a bigger number than I thought James Harden would get a little bit bigger.

It's not like they offered Paul George nothing. They offered him three years, approximately $50 million a pop. By doing all of those things together, you are by definition for sure going into the second apron in 24-25.

probably going into the second apron or at least the first apron in 25, 26, maybe going into the second apron in 26, 27, maybe not. And then Paul George's fourth year comes Kawhi's off the books in theory, Harden's off the books in theory. Like I, the second apron rationalization does not quite hold up to me because if you're offering Paul George three years, you are willing to go into the second apron. And so I just kind of don't understand why,

why they drew this line in the sand for the fourth year. I understand that Paul George will be 38. I understand that that contract

Probably will be bad in the fourth year. I understand that you want to give yourselves maximum flexibility and wiggle room to sort of reorient your team post Kawhi Leonard and give yourself access to more tools. Now they use one such tool on Derek Jones Jr., who they swiped away from the Mavs for three years, 30 million Mavs replace him effectively with Najee Marshall.

We could talk about that if you want. I think that's kind of a wash. Najee does some things better than Derrick Jones Jr. Doesn't have the vertical threat and kind of ability to skitter around with guards maybe on the perimeter, the quickest guards that Derrick Jones Jr. has, but whatever. It just, something is missing to me in why the Clippers drew this line in the sand where they drew it because now, Bobby...

Like, what are you? Like, they'll do something else in free agency, but now they're going into this new arena with Kawhi, no Paul George, with Harden, no Paul George. Like, I don't even know where this team will stack up in the Western Conference. It might be a play-in team at best. And to me, Bobby, all of this suggests to me, I'm just putting pieces together. I'm not really sure, like, how much they wanted to run this team back. And what it feels like to me is because the second apron rationalization doesn't quite match up with the year four drafts

back and forth. This feels like to me, an act of surrender and admission of failure and admission that this team was over and could not win big again. And that's where I think the timing is interesting. So they, they extended Kawhi for three years, one 53, uh,

I looked it up today. It was January 24th. It was January 10th. Yeah. 2024. You know why I know that? Because his date when he can be traded. The Clippers were 24 and 13 in the middle of the 16 and 3 rampage after the Harden adjustment period.

I bet they would have loved to have signed Kawhi then when they were exuberant about, we've got it. Like, this is the team. We've got it. I bet they would have loved to have signed Paul George then, I meant to say. They don't. They can't come to an agreement. Flash forward to the end of the season, Kawhi gets hurt again. They lose in the first round again. They can't recapture that 16-3 form after the All-Star break. They're kind of a 500-ish team after the All-Star break. And it feels over.

And I think this is an admission of like, it's done. And I get that the second apron probably was in play and they get under it now. Like, that's great. They get under it now. They wouldn't have gotten under it now if they resigned Paul George for three years, which they were willing to do. I just kind of don't get it. Something is missing to me. Yeah, there is. I mean, like they were, they were going to be over $200 million this year. They were going to probably be in the apron next year here. Um,

You know, certainly where, as you mentioned, year four, basically Paul would have been the only guy on the roster. Right. He would have been making 61 million. And I get 61 million for a 37 year old is a lot of money. But four years from now, that cap, which is at 141, will be, I don't know, 190 million.

you know, somewhere around there. I mean, this thing's growing. I mean, you saw it's going to go from one 41 to one 55 and for next year here. Um, so that's where it's, it almost feels like, um, a more expensive, expensive version of kind of what golden state just went through with clay. Like we want to, we just kind of, here's what we can offer, but I don't know if we really want you. Um, but we're going to make you an offer and we'll talk about golden state and clay as far as the semantics there. Um,

So I would have – I mean, listen, I'm not in their front office. I would have given him the fourth year. I would have maybe – I would have too, and I would have just – And I would have just dealt with it. I would have just dealt with it. Like, listen, we can debate about is he a max player. I always say the max players are determined by the circumstances. The market dictates sometimes when you are max –

max player. And you had a team like Philadelphia who was basically sitting there with all, we all knew all this money and who the guy was going to be. I just never, I never remember a situation where a marquee free agent had, you know, I guess what three, I don't

I don't want to say visits or what meetings and stuff like that. And two of the teams were eliminated before even got to meet with the, with Philadelphia. Yeah. I mean, Oklahoma city was off. I mean, Orlando was off the board before, you know, before the, you know, everything started with KCP and then, and the clips put out that press release, uh,

Um, so I don't understand. And I know like they've, I, I, I, they've said it in their press conferences. They've talked about the apron. They've, they've talked about everything. Um, I would understand it if this was like year four of the eight, but they've been in it forever. Right? Like this is a new thing. And I, I, I talked to a general manager and I was teasing cause I, I, I said the same line to him, what we said as far as the two words. And he's like, yeah, I get it, but there's ways to work around it.

Right. Like there's ways to work around the second apron. Like it hurts you if you don't have your draft picks and you're extremely, extremely top heavy in salary. Right. That's where it really hurts you. It hurts Phoenix. It hurts Milwaukee. Some of those teams. It doesn't hurt Minnesota. Minnesota went in and basically got the eighth pick in a draft and it wouldn't have hurt.

The clips, because Kawhi would have come off the, it was off. I mean, Harden had a player option. Who knows where his contract would have gone if, if Paul would have gone and there's no more salary on their books. Now they're walking into a brand new building. All right, put the building aside here into the Western conference stripped of draft equity because of the Harden trade. Remember they, Oh, pick still swaps, uh,

unprotected. This is why it's a disaster. Not a disaster. This is why they're up a creek a little bit because we know they still owe debts to the Thunder from the original trade. They now owe debts to the Sixers. The Sixers own their pick in 28 and they own a swap with them in 29. So they can't, like initially my brain for a second thought, are they just going to turn around and trade Kawhi who is in Costa Rica apparently and may not know that any of this is going on?

But they can't because they don't. I mean, they could. They could if they if they just were like, whatever, it's over. But they can't. And the Sixers not only get Paul George from them, they own their draft equity in those years. Yeah. And listen, I like I understand and I'm sure more will come out like the rationale of.

Not wanting to maybe take back contracts in a trade, an opt-in trade. You know, certainly it's been reported with Golden State. And I get that route. I get like, hypothetically, it didn't make sense for Chris Paul and Looney and...

And I don't, you know, like Kaminga, you know, we're going to hear about his name being available and stuff like that. Wasn't that wasn't the case. I'm skeptical. So I am extremely skeptical on that. Let's do that now. Yep. So Golden State has these this Chris Paul contract that they end up just waving to get out of. They had a deadline to guarantee it for 30 million. They're trying in conjunction with Chris Paul.

to find a trade where he could make his money. They use his salary along with some other stuff to get an impact player to put around Curry and Green and the young guys, whatever young guys are left over. They zero in on Paul George because they see this going south for the Clippers. What people need to understand is this is a triangular situation. There's three sides in these discussions. There's the Clippers, there's Paul George, and there's the Warriors. And...

What Paul George might want the Clippers to give up or to accept rather in a opt-in and trade from the Warriors might be much less than what the Clippers, Lawrence Frank, Steve Ballmer are willing to accept in an opt-in and trade with the Warriors. Paul George just wants to get to the Warriors in that scenario and he wants to have the

best young players on their team still on their team when he gets there. The Clippers are not concerned with that. The Clippers are trying to get the best return possible, both in talent and in financial wiggle room turns. And that's why, like, I don't get the sense that although there was a lot of discussion around this, I just think all of that, all of those bridges were just too far apart. Like, I don't necessarily think that ever got close because this isn't a two-

This isn't a two-entity negotiation. It's at least a three. And maybe if you include Chris, kind of a 3.5-entity negotiation. So the Warriors end up waiving Chris. They're going to lose Klay Thompson, which is an end of an era we're going to talk about. And that was maybe the... I didn't hear about much more of an opt-in and trade scenario for Paul George anywhere. And so then it comes down to...

like you said take the meetings and go yeah i mean you're right i mean like i mean from from the clippers perspective just going back to golden state like the three guys you would have gotten in the trade if you know coming is not you would have been in the apron you would have been basically in a you know you would have had none no flexibility with three guys you probably didn't want and then if you're the words you have to ask yourselves okay we have paul george yep jermon green

Steph Curry, some of our young guys who are semi-proven to Moses Moody kind of still proving himself. I like Moses Moody, but he's been in and out of the rotation. Whoever's left, no clay. Like, is that actually, like, can we really compete at the highest level with that? Maybe, maybe not. No, I mean, I totally get it. I mean, where Golden State is right now,

As you said, they waive Chris Paul. They're going to lose Clay Thompson. They'll probably create some type of trade exception and some type of sign in trade here. You've got your you're in twelve eight non-tax mid-level exception to I mean, try to get it. I mean, who would DeMar DeRozan go there on a non-tax? Like, you know, those are the guys that you're probably you know, that you're probably staring down.

On the apron, so it's going to become a talking point now because –

The most hardline skeptical fans are going to say that teams like the Nuggets and the Clippers and the Warriors are using the apron as an excuse to be cheap, are using an apron as cover for their refusal to pay the luxury tax, the repeater tax, which gets even more harsh. And I think, you know, particularly if I'm a Nuggets fan, I am frustrated that Bruce Brown, Jeff Green and...

and now KCP have gone out the door for essentially nothing in return for two straight summers. I think there is an element of frugality there. But I do think this is a real thing. It's not just cover for cheapness. You are in jail transaction-wise. I'm not sure that people really understand your pick gets frozen, then it gets dropped to last in the first round if

If you're in the apron, what, second apron, two years in a row or something like that, it gets – It's like this year and then two out of four. You got to come out of it to get that pick back to where it is. It's so hard to make trades. That's like you have to go dollar for – you cannot take in a dollar more. You can't aggregate. Like you're just kind of in jail. And as more of the league approaches jail, you have fewer options in terms of – this isn't –

There is probably some CYA going on here for owners who would just prefer not to spend hugely into the repeater tax. Steve Ballmer just found the repeater tax payment like in a pocket of a pair of pants he hasn't worn in 30 years. I think the Clippers are more concerned about like we have to be able to pivot a little bit. I think there's legitimacy to that, but it just doesn't line up with their just why is the fourth year where you draw the line?

We have more breaking news. We do. Tobias Harris, two years, $52 million to the Pistons. You know what, Bobby? No, we're not talking about that. Just like why? Here's my full analysis of that deal. Why? Yeah, I mean, I hope the second year is a team option. Why? He can shoot at least. No one else on the team can shoot. He can shoot. Why? Okay, back to Paul George. What other –

I mean, I don't know where the Clippers go from here in terms of the short term. They have – like, why is James Harden on the team? Why are you paying James Harden $35 million to be on this team? Yeah, I mean, that's the big thing as far as –

You knew you were going to lose him and you stayed with Harden and you gave him a two-year $70 million deal with a player option. I would have understood if Paul was still here and that you're giving him three years, 90 and a player option. I get it for that. You could have easily just kind of pivoted away from that.

you know, and really had some nice flexibility here. And then who knows? Who knows what you do with Kawhi? And then maybe you do a reboot, right? Maybe you kind of just reboot this whole thing. Without your picks? Without your picks. They're basically where Brooklyn was, right? I mean, like before they got their picks back. So here's the upside of, here's the upside scenario for the Clippers. And like, I could see this playing out.

Oh, Derek Jones Jr. He's like frisky. Our defense is pretty good. Like I could see it playing out like the first year without Chris Paul where they're punching above their weight a little bit. They have this fun team. Kawhi is still Kawhi, all NBA player. Ty Lue is a creative coach. Derek Jones Jr. works out. They get another free agent that comes in. Harden's balling out like and they're

25 and 21 and or 25 and 20. And it's like, Hey, look like they, they're still pretty good. They're frisky. They're fun to watch. They're competitive in the Western car. Maybe they're even 25 and 17. And they've really rebounded without Paul George. They filled in all the gaps here and there.

The problem is then Kawhi gets hurt and is out for 20 games or 25 games or out in the playoffs. And then you're just like, well, now we're just completely because Paul's gone. And like, we're counting on James Harden to win games by himself as a star player. Your margin for anything going wrong is pretty much nil that we'll see if they get it to Rosen or whatever that can help. I just don't see like what this team is in the Western conference in the next two or three years. And they obviously are okay with being, uh,

I mean, you know, Oklahoma city, Minnesota, Denver, you know, uh, uh, Dallas Phoenix, who, who have Lakers are still around who I'm sure I'm forgetting five other good teams. Um, new Orleans who made a trade this week for Dejounte Murray. Um,

I don't know. Like, what are the Clips are going to finish? Seventh, ninth, tenth? Like, I don't know. Like, if Kawhi gets hurt, they're going into the lottery without control of their pick. And you got two surly veterans on your roster that you're trying to get rid of. Russell Westbrook and P.J. Tucker.

I mean, when Westbrook opted in, like, I mean, I think if you're the Clippers front office, that's probably the one thing you didn't want. They might waive him. They might have to waive him. I don't really get Denver's reported interest in him. I mean, I guess they just need a backup point guard. Russ was...

I looked up his playoff stats because that was the deal breaker for the Clippers. Like this guy came, he played his role, good soldier, rebounding menace. I think rebounding is like the last strength left in Russ's game. Gets into the playoffs and is just on tilt the entire series. He shot 13 of 50.

13 of 50 overall in the series with 11 turnovers and 10 assists, I think. And every play he made, the Dallas Mavericks coaching staff, because I was hanging out with a lot of Mavericks people during the finals, talking about many, many things, one of which was like, can you guys just keep Russ in the game the whole game? Because we're loving everything that he's doing. I don't really get the Denver thing.

If I'm a Nuggets fan, I'm like, what exactly is going on? We have the best player in the world, and we just can't find a way to retain anybody at any cost. And we're getting Russell Westbrook maybe coming in here. Anyway, Clippers. Should we turn to the Sixers now? What else have we not talked about Clippers? I mean, obviously, this is the end of an era. It didn't work. It was worth a shot. It was worth a shot. Listen, when I remember – You do that trade every time. Every time. When they did the deal –

In 2009, I mean, it was basically almost like this. Ironically, it's like the same, almost like the same time when the Paul George news broke last night. It was like three o'clock in the morning here. When they did the deal, I, you know, it was hard to complain about it because they got Kawhi Leonard with it.

Right. Like everyone says it was, you know, now people will say it was Paul George and what they gave up. And but no, it was a package deal. They got the finals MVP and a guy who I believe Paul George finished third at MVP that season in 2018, 2019 with Oklahoma City.

Before Damian Lillard waved goodbye to them, waved goodbye to everybody right out of the playoffs. Yeah. So, I mean, now you still live with the consequences because of what you owe Oklahoma City there. But, I mean, that's a problem for another day. But Philadelphia now gets Paul George on that four-year, $212 million contract. So, Philly, obviously...

Just aced the offseason. And you could sit here and tell me that they would have been better off signing KCP plus Bruce Brown somehow plus whatever. Maybe. But I think Daryl Morey has never operated like that. He wants stars. Paul George is 34 years old. He's not the same level defender he used to be, but he's an absolute A-plus fit around Tyrese Maxey and Joel Embiid on the wing.

We just went through the litany of the Ubray's, Drummond's, Gordon's. There will be more coming. They could even have – what kind of bird rights possibilities do they have with their own free agents? They had to renounce all of them, right? So they don't have any. Yeah, so you'll get Ubray on the room exception. You'll get Drummond into some cap space. Maxie signed or agreed with that deal. I mean, give Tyrese Maxie a lot of credit. I know he just got rewarded for $204 million, but by him waiting –

um, with his cap hold, they were able to go out and do all this. I think the interesting thing is they still got a little bit of room left. Um, if they wave Paul Reed, they can get like a nine and like another nine to $10 million guy. Um, you could also use maybe guarantee Paul Reed's contract and go out and make a trade with some of the draft picks you have. And you've, maybe you could put a minimum guy in there. You still have KJ Martin. If you want to, um,

You can maybe keep his cap hold on and use him in a signing trade here. So there's still some flexibility as far as how they add to the roster. I love the fit is what it is. And like this team, if they're healthy and obviously like,

Joel Embiid never is healthy in the playoffs. Paul George has had health issues here and there and is only getting older. So that's a big if. It's a big if. But this is a team that's worth a shot. This is a team that's worth a big investment. This is a team that at its ceiling, in top three talent, can match Boston, can exceed the Knicks. If we're just ranking one, two, three, if they're healthy. And a couple of things need to happen here. Number one,

Joel Embiid needs to just acquiesce to whatever plan the Sixers medical team has to get him healthy in the playoffs because they just can't play this game over and over again. And he's had repeated knee injuries now to the same knee. Whatever that is, it's above my pay grade. I'm not a doctor. It's like the MVP chase, all that stuff. It's over. Like you just got to be healthy in the playoffs. Forget the 65 game rule. Who cares? Number two,

It's put up or shut up time for Joel Embiid in the playoffs. Like it's been, it's been a little under discussed because of the injuries. And that's fair. Like he's had fluky injuries. He's had recurring injuries and you can't play that well if you're not healthy, but we were having, like he has not been good enough in the playoffs. And not only that, it's kind of been forgotten because it was in the first round that,

A lot of stuff happened since Celtics won the title. This free agency stuff is draft Ronnie, all of it. There were, there were a couple of games against the Knicks, including the game six where he did not look like he wanted the ball late in games where he was kind of playing a hot potato with the ball late in games. And I don't think he got nearly enough for it. Like that he would have gotten, if he had been healthy, that he would have gotten like if LeBron James had done that,

In 2010, 2011, the whole world would have just melted down. And it wasn't agreed, just like he still took some shots. He still made some baskets, but he did not look like he wanted to assert control of the team. And his playoff performance has declined from his regular season performance more than you would even expect. Paul George has had a wildly up and down playoff career.

It starts off with like epic showdowns against LeBron where he dunks on Birdman and LeBron gives him like a high five at center court, which is like, you made it. You're a made man in the NBA. He coins himself playoff P then has a two for 16 elimination game stinker at Utah in his first year with the thunder. People don't remember, but he played what he was 14 of 20 from the floor played quite well in the Damian Lillard wave goodbye game the next year. Um,

And I would say in two of his three post seasons with the Clippers, he just was not. It's amazing that there were only three 2020 bubble. He was awful. That's when people started making fun of him. Way off P pandemic P podcast P Philadelphia P cheesesteak P. And then last season, he averaged 19 points a game.

when they really really needed him shot 41 from the field and was just kind of okay for his career his playoff averages are 21.7 rebounds four assists on 42 shooting 35 percent on threes 47 percent on twos like overall it's just okay like it's kevin pelton wrote about this once it it's

The playoffs are harder and Paul George's overall dossier has highs. It's got lows. It's got mediocrities. It's probably like a little bit below what you would expect based on his regular season performance, but not egregiously. So like if we can't get to the playoffs next year,

And it's like Tyrese Maxey as the young, confident guy running the show and everyone else is a little jittery and off. Like it's put up or shut up time for these guys because they have a shot like this big three fits perfectly. They're going to round out the roster around it. It's great work from Daryl Morey to trade Harden for the Clippers picks.

resist any temptation. And I hit him for this and he's proven, he's proven me wrong. He did nothing at the trade deadline last year, really like nothing in terms of bringing in real players who are going to help your team. Didn't trade any of the assets you got in the heart and trade, despite talking about them a lot in part to preserve this cap space. And I think in part,

in almost a bizarre way caught a little bit of a break with Embiid getting hurt because it allowed the Sixers to be like, well, we don't really know what state he's going to be in in the playoffs. We can be conservative. It's like, why would we go all in at the trade deadline? They don't. They preserve their cap space. They get Paul George. I don't see really any downside. I mean, the downside is the fourth year of the deal. Who freaking cares? Joel Embiid is 30 years old. He's hurt every year. Like, you have to go for it, go for it, go for it as long as you have him on your team, and they're going for it.

Well, yeah, I mean, listen, you mentioned it before. It would have been easy just to split up money into two players, right? But Daryl does not operate that. It's like, give me the three best players. Let me worry about putting depth around them. And that's how he, you know, whether it be in Houston when they had James Harden and he goes and does the Chris Paul thing.

Signing trade, I think that was 2016 when Chris was in with the Clippers here. But that's, you know, that for him feels like he's got a better chance than basically two main guys and basically, you know, 10 role players. And I think you saw...

Yeah, certainly in a Knicks series here. And you're going to get some of these guys back. You're going to get, you know, Oubre back. You know, you get Eric Gordon, you get Andre Drummond, which is a nice backup, you know, which is who had a pretty good year in Chicago there. And we're going to see what else he can add. I think like I've always been a big PG guy. I love PG. He's he's had some bad moments. There's no question about it. He is he is a very malleable player who fits anywhere.

He is a little bit miscast as a number one option. He's a guy who can be your second option, sometimes morph into your first option. Like if you look at his pick and roll numbers and his isolation numbers for his career, which I did, he averages about 17%.

to 20 pick and rolls per hundred possessions in his career with like decent efficiency. That's like mid medium volume for a play low for a player of his stature. Same with his isolations. It's low to medium for a player of his stature with okay. Efficiency. He can do it.

But he's best when he sort of blends in as a floating second option who can snap into being a first option, who can sometimes be a spot-up option and focus on defense, which, by the way, complained on his podcast about we lost all the guys who did the dirty work for the Clippers. You just signed up to do some dirty work, my friend. You're getting paid $50 million a year to be the best wing defender on the team. You got Tyrese Maxey, who has all the guts in the world, who wants every big shot in the world. You have the MVP from two years ago, averaged more points per minute

uh, more points, more than a point per minute last year. You got to do the dirty work. Um,

But I think this is the perfect kind of place for him. He's going to be the third option offensively, but can take over possessions here and there when they need him to. They can play. They always have to throw these kitchen sink lineups out there. I call them when Embiid is on the bench where they just have to play everybody else who's good to sustain without Embiid. He can help those lineups. Drummond's a great backup for him. Look, Boston is the bar. Boston is still the bar. They bring back everybody relevant, including first free agency deal of the year, Luke Cornett.

He even got a graphic for it. We even did a Luke Cornett graphic, you know? Was he doing this? Was he doing the Cornett contest? No, we put him in a depth chart. The graphic should have been Luke Cornett doing the Cornett contest where he's raising his hand and then there's two bags of money, one above each of his hands, and he's grabbing the money. They're the bar. They're entering his favorites next year. I don't want to hear any argument about it. But New York?

and Philly have put themselves in position to make a real push against them, which is why I keep looking at Milwaukee. Like, I don't know what your options are. I know you don't really got many options, but here's the thing with Milwaukee too, is the two guys they got in the draft, AJ Johnson and Tyler Smith. Those guys are, those are guys like two years from now. They're not, they're not, you know, like,

Like Ryan Dunn in Phoenix, the big wing. He can come in and play right now. A.J. Johnson played eight minutes in Australia last year. Tyler Smith was in the G League. So those are more like for a team that's win now, those are basically like post-Lillard guys. I'm sure Bucs fans were thrilled to hear that little.

But I mean, like I said last week, I have this nagging Bucks pessimism that if you wanted to be an optimist, you would say, hey, Zach, why are you so pessimistic? They still have Dame, Chris, and Giannis. When those three guys were on the floor, they were plus 15 partner possessions. Dame and Giannis have now a full camp season to hone their pick and roll chemistry, which is like dicey and up and down. The coaching chaos is over. Doc Rivers is now the coach. He gets to install the staff. He gets to install the system.

Like another year of seasoning, they're going to be fine. I look around and I'm like, okay, well, A, they're a year older, all of them. And Middleton is dealing with injuries off and on constantly. B,

They did not health, not healthy, fully Doc Rivers, Adrian Griffin, whatever. They did not put together like 10 days of solid, consistent elite basketball at any point in the entire season last year. I understand the office was hurting the playoffs. They're dead on arrival without him. They fought the Pacers actually pretty well. All things considered, Dame missed two games in that series.

Nice showing. Chris Middleton looked great in the playoffs. There was never a week where they figured it out. They were like, great, awesome. Can I see it for a week or two before I'm like, well, all they need is seasoning. And now there's this noise about Brook Lopez. I don't know what the hell is going on with Brook Lopez, but if you trade Brook Lopez, I understand he's older. He's on an expiring contract. You had to do something to shake up your team. If you trade him,

Like, how are you building a defensive architecture with this team? Their entire defensive architecture for five years has been Brooke at the rim and Giannis being everywhere. If Brooke is not at the rim and it's like some whatever center at the rim, I don't know, man. If I'm a Bucs fan, I'm like, oh my God.

What the hell just happened? Philly got who? New York did what? Boston is unbelievable. What happened to us? Perk said we had the big NBA Today special yesterday, and we were talking about the potential of Paul George going to Philly, and Perk said, man, I would go to Philly if I were Paul George. It's the East. East is so much easier than the West. In the East, all you got to worry about is New York and Boston. And the discussion just went on. It just went like nobody. And then I brought it back. I was like, Perk,

Remember the Bucs? They're just out of the ether right now. Yeah, I mean, and when you look at it, and we said it last year, Middleton is always the X factor here, and I don't know where his health is going to be going into this year. And it's almost like they are –

I guess, you know, I don't want to call them like kind of the junior version of where Phoenix is supersized, you know, with basically limited like a limited way to figure it out. The parallel is irresistible. Two thousand twenty one finalists. And it's like, wait a second, we load it up. But as the conferences, each of our conferences like pass us by. Yeah. Yeah. And we're we're basically stuck on minimum guys. You know, I mean, that's what Milwaukee is going to have to do.

I don't know what you're talking about with Phoenix, man. Everything's going great with them. Zero playoff wins, but every GM would trade places with them. 26 out of 30. What have they done so far, Phoenix? They got Bobo. Mason Plumlee. I like the Plumlee signing. I'm sure it's going great.

Arizona football fans, picture this. You bet on your favorite player to score the first touchdown and he throws an awesome block so his teammate can score instead. If this happens, BetMGM wants to give you another chance at the end zone. With BetMGM's Second Chance Promotion, you'll get your stake back if your first touchdown scorer scores second instead. That's right. Bet on any pro football player to score the first touchdown of the game. If you're right...

you win. If your player scores second, you get your stake back in cash. Everyone knows the most exciting part of football is the score. With BetMGM's second chance promotion, you have a chance to keep the fun going after the first player crosses the goal line. Place a first touchdown scorer wager today.

BetMGM and GameSense remind you to play responsibly. See BetMGM.com for terms. 21 plus only. Arizona only. Existing customer offer. Subject to eligibility requirements. Rewards vary. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-NEXT-STEP. Church's original recipe is back. You can never go wrong with original. Still tastes the same like back in the day. Right now, get two pieces of chicken starting at only $2.99 or 10 pieces starting at only $10.99. Church's. Offer valid at participating locations.

Okay, let's talk about the Warriors. It's over with Klay Thompson. Yep. My basketball romantic soul, a little chip got taken out of it with this. Not all good things last forever. Warriors lost Chris Paul's salary slot. They might lose Klay Thompson for nothing. They might sign and trade him somewhere and get something. I mean, obviously, we should take a second to just –

point out that this is the end of the Splash Brothers. Like, we get so caught up in the transaction madness and where did Golden State go wrong and where are they going from here and how can they salvage the remainder of Steph Curry's career in Prime? This was a special thing that these dudes all had together. And Clay is a one-of-a-kind NBA character who has had so many indelible moments next to these guys, obviously four championships, including the 2022 championships, which we kind of felt it at the time, but now it feels more concrete now

Like you want to feel good ending for the Warriors. That was probably it. That was probably the feel good ending for the Warriors. And it was amazing. It was incredible crowning achievement in Steph Curry's career. It was Clay recovering to play well enough after two catastrophic leg injuries and three years almost out of basketball. These guys had absolutely magical chemistry, the three of them together. And Clay, we know that

just single-handedly destroying the Thunder in game six, you know, making so many preposterous threes. Remember the one that Steve Kerr turns to the crowd and is just like, anyone see that? And I'll never forget, like, people forget game five of the Raptors finals because it was the KD getting hurt game. Klay made so many monster shots on the stretch of that game. And in game six, in Golden State, had 30 points in 31 minutes, was just cooking. And you could feel it like,

These motherfuckers are going to get this to seven in Toronto and they might win. They might do it without KD. Then he gets hurt and he comes back to shoot the free throws. I think that might've been the loudest I've ever heard any arena that I've ever been in when Clay came out to shoot the free throws. And now he's gone.

And look, like sometimes it's just time to move on. It's time for clay. It's time for the warriors. A lot of hurt feelings here. I think the timing factor, like clay watched all these dudes get paid. Right. And it's just kind of like what we talked about with PG. They paid Wiggins right after the finals when he was on a high and the team was a championship contender, literally by definition, they just won the championship. They paid Draymond a year later when, yeah, they weren't a finalist again, but they had made the conference semis the second round and put up a pretty good fight.

against the Lakers and kind of had reason to believe like we got something going on here. Then the punch happens and the whole, the whole thing has been sideways. So I guess the punch happened before that, but the team has not been the same since the punch. And now it comes time to pay clay just the way the contracts work. And they could have extended them before I get that. Now it's clear that much like the Clippers, it's this team's kind of over as a championship contender and it's time to pivot in some way.

How did we get here with the Warriors? Like, where did this, where did this go sideways for them? Where not just with clay, but where it's like, yeah, we're reaching Curry is still an all NBA player. And it's, it's again, kind of like, where is this team stacking up and what can they actually do now?

Well, it's funny. It's like, it's almost like the best thing that happened to them was winning in 22 against Boston. And the worst thing that happened was them winning in 22 because it almost like, like if, if there was an, a point in or a point in a road to kind of go in a different direction, it would have probably been after that. What was it in the year they lost? They lost to Memphis, I think in the plan tournament 2021. And that, that was the parallel they wanted to make. Yep.

for 24-25 is we finished super strong in 2021. We felt our vibes coming back. We were confident coming into 21-22 that we got something. They finished 27-12 this year. They felt their vibes coming back. They lose in the play-in and you could hear them talking themselves into like, is this a sequel? Are we going to come back roaring next year? And

It doesn't appear to be in the cards. No, it isn't. Listen, what's going to happen with Clay is you're going to create a trade exception. He's going to wind up going to either Dallas or, you know, I don't know. And we've talked at length, and we're going to talk about it in a couple minutes here, about Los Angeles here. I mean, those are really the only viable options.

I think, cause he's got, you know, the decision to make. And of course, Golden State has to help, help facilitate it here. I assume you mean the Lakers by Los Angeles? Yeah, the Lakers. Yeah. Where do you go now? It's like almost like you're bridging the young kids with Kaminga, who's extension eligible and Moody, who's extension eligible and Brandon, who's coming off a terrific year.

And then you still have the older players. You know, it's like you got that. You still have that mix with whether Curry, Green, Wiggins. You got Peyton and Looney here. Are you saying, Bobby, that the Warriors are operating on two timelines? Yeah. The two timeline plan? Again.

Well, this timeline is going to get more expensive because you're going to have to pay those, what you call it, the second foundation, whatever they call it there. So listen, they're not one of the, I don't think I can say they're in the top eight in the Western Conference. Yeah.

I think, you know, listen, they had a, you know, for a 46 win team. And as you said, you know what, 27 and 12 down the stretch, but getting your doors blown off in Sacramento basically kind of raised the red flag. The two timelines thing was always a myth. It was an accident. It wasn't a plan. It was an accident.

Durant leaves, Klay's hurt, Steph breaks his hand three games into the 2019-2020 season, and all of a sudden you stink. Like, okay, two timelines. This is great. And it was a very rare, precious chance to be the Spurs, which is what they talked about, to get Kawhi, to find the bridge where we're just going to be good for 25 years.

Doesn't happen in the NBA. This is what happens in the NBA. You get old and bad and the young guys you get aren't good enough in time for the old guys. And then they aren't good enough on their own to be the foundation of a title team TBD on that for the words, but we'll see.

This is what happens. This is normal. The Spurs was not normal. The opportunity the Warriors had was not normal. And then opportunity netted James Wiseman. And if you're looking at the pivot point where like they did this era went sideways and they didn't pull off what they could have pulled off. And it was always a low percentage chance, even with the second pick. That's it. Cause Kaminga who they got in the crazy awesome Wiggins DLO trade. That's a great pick for number seven. Moody is a very good pick for 14. I think like he's probably above expected return.

Like they hit those, but they hit doubles on those picks. They didn't hit home runs, but they hit doubles. The Wiseman one,

The Wiseman one, I had a friend who not only did not hit a double, I had a friend whose little sister, when we were younger, played softball. And they had a rule in that softball league that you are not allowed to strike out. It was bad for your self-esteem to strike out. And this poor girl swung and missed at the third strike like 25 times in a row in one game. And I was there because my little sister was on her team. And her mom came running out of the stands and said, that's it. She's out. She struck out.

End this now. That's the James Wiseman pick for the Warriors. And that's like, other than that, this is just what happens. Like, good teams get old and not that great. And the Warriors are still good. Like, to win 46 games in the West is good. They're still a good team. It's just, I don't know what the roadmap. You know, there are reports they looked at Levine. Yeah. You know, fine. Whatever. Another name that they've looked at that I've been told is Markkinen in Utah.

Okay. Let's do that now. Yeah, because that's going to be the next guy probably to keep an eye on here. We said it on TV yesterday. I think it's a guy to keep an eye on right now. Now, Utah can raise and extend him now.

Well, no, here's the trick. Here's the tricky thing. So he's extension eligible for like four, four. I think it's like one 13. It's, it's, um, it's, it's below his market value, but he can't get renegotiated until August. So you're basically kind of sitting in a, in a one month window, um, with all this money, if you're ever going to go that direction, I don't,

I don't have any inclination that they're going to go to the Sabonis route where they bump DeMondis' contract up to the max and then extend it off that. I don't think we're heading there on him. Really? On Markkinen. You don't think Utah would do that? I don't know. I haven't talked to them. I haven't talked to people within the league as far as with that. I just...

I think it's what you can do with your cap space now and then maybe a month from now, figure out what you have left to bump it up. Because that's realistically the only way he's not going to extend likely. That's the only way that you have the security that he's going to be here and not on an expiring contract.

Because if you're not going to do it, then you're going to have to trade them, right? I mean, that's the reality of it. I think the expectation from Mark in his camp is that they are going to do it. Yeah. I was under the impression Utah would be happy doing it. Obviously, the Bridges trade led them to send smoke signals out like, hey, hey, five firsts to swap. Lines are open. Our phones work. We got good reception. Give us a call.

And it reminds me, like, I was feeling it didn't make it onto the show. I was on Get Up one day last week, and I said, you know, guys, the name I'm getting asked about most is Mikael Bridges. Like, I know we want to talk about the Lakers in this, and then, like, 24 hours later, that night, actually, it was that night, Mikael gets traded. I'm not quite feeling the same kind of vibes with Lowry, but I think some, I just, like, I'm keeping an eye on it for sure. That's what we said yesterday.

um you want to talk about some teams for him because i do think he's the most interesting domino left in the league yeah so oklahoma city was the obvious one i think that's gone now um you know for now at least like and and they have this issue of like can they really take on a third max salary yeah yeah i got a team for you well can i say my favorite team oh you're gonna take it aren't you does it start with an s yep

is it three words long does it does the nickname end with an s yes so the spur the spurs are the team i would watch yeah um because they got a lot of assets and he's just the perfect like first of all can we all just agree chris paul going to san antonio is awesome like just awesome it's not lob city anymore because he's not he's 39 years old or whatever he is but just to

I would love to listen in on the phone call between Chris Paul and Greg Popovich. Like the amount of basketball experience and IQ in that conversation is just unbelievable. Unbelievable fit. I love it. I love everything about it. He's going to just Chris Paul, even at this age, look at the Warriors on off numbers. When he plays his team generally does very well, including the golden state. Great signing home run. Marking it is the exact right age where you say, Hey,

It lifts our ceiling with Wemba Nyama now. And by the way, this dude is ready to make an all NBA team immediately. And he's young enough where we're not going all in on a player that's too far out of Wemba Nyama's timeline. I could see the rubber meeting the road at Devin Vassell. And that's the most interesting piece to me for the Spurs because they rightfully believe he is an absolute A plus fit.

as a three-point shooter he's not a three and d guy yet but he's got some tools defensively that he needs to lock into next to wimby he's the best fit next to wimby that they have on the team long term we'll see how this castle kid pans out and i could see the jazz being like well why would we do this deal without him in it and so that's interesting but they're the team i would pay attention what else did you want to say about the spurs no that was that was too um just the people you kind of just poke around the league that's the team that's kind of come up a lot

You know, them, you know, certainly, as I mentioned, Golden State. I just don't know. Do they have enough? That's the thing, right? Like, what do you got? That was always the thing with the Sixers. Like, Sixers, there was all this dreams of marketing going there. I'm like, and they do have, they could trade up to four first-round picks. There's some shenanigans, but, like, who's the player? Like, someone can beat that. Yeah, and I think that's what you, Todd, like, listen, they've got 15 or 16 players

I think future ones. They got all the Cleveland and Minnesota got a leaker first and 27, I think at 2027. And, but eventually you gotta get, you gotta get better. Like, you know, like you gotta have like a found, like there, there's gotta be like a, a guy involved. If you're going to trade him, that comes back, not just, you know, draft picks and expiring contracts. I thought about, um,

Sacramento, I've mentioned them for marketing. Yeah, Sacramento, I would think, you know, certainly if Ingram, you know, with depending on what happens with him in New Orleans, you've got Barnes, you've got Herter, you've got you've got most of your draft picks. You still owe Atlanta a protected one in twenty five.

Um, it's a matter of like, you know, it comes back to like, what are you comfortable paying Ingram? Are you want to max them out? You got Fox and some bonus also, um, that, that comes, you know, that comes down to that. Well, and they've been pretty open, not open, but they've been concerned about like, you just said max out Brandon Ingram. We're talking about maxing out Lowry marketing. Yeah. It's Lowry by the way. It really, it really makes people say, people say Lori, it's not Lori. It makes them mad. It's Lowry. Um,

They've been concerned about like, well, we have three guys making like $150 million a year combined. Yes, the cap is going way up. The apron is going way up. Like, do we lose the wiggle room and the optionality that we have right now, particularly if we think Keegan Murray could be a guy going forward and we have a couple years left on his rookie deal? I think it's interesting for them.

I bet Miami would love to get involved in anything marketing. I just don't think they have enough either. I mean, if they start throwing in your hot guys, then your yo bitch and all of that, like, you know, maybe you have a conversation. Yeah. Um,

I just, that's the one that I'm looking at. Cause the jazz, like the jazz can't do this thing again where they're, Oh, we're pretty good for the first part of the year. They were pretty bad for the last part of the year. And we ended up picking 10th. Yay. Like they just can't do that again. Well, five and 12 to finish the season is not good enough. Well, it's not when you're 500, like at that point, I'm just like be 500 and make the play in like, all right, back to the, anything else on the warriors? I mean, it's just like, this is, I love clay.

I've defended Clay since his injuries. I think people have really been too hard on him. He still shot the 40% from three. Yeah. He's not the same defender. You know why he tore his Achilles and he tore his ACL two years in a row. Yep. No, all time, big game player. I mean, I'm sure there'll, there'll be more of that come out. I would say that, you know, wherever he goes, it's, it's going to be significantly less than what has gone.

What he just finished on. And I think that's the reality of it. I mean, even if, and I think it will be probably more than the 13 or 12, eight non-tax, especially if it's a sign and trade to Dallas, cause they can do a little bit more, especially when they get Najee Marshall on a really good deal. I thought I liked that a lot. Me too. So I think, yeah,

I've said all along, like he, the guy's made $270 million and he was miserable making 43 last year. And I know that sounds terrible for like the, the, you know, like we live in the basketball world where it's like really, it's like, it's like fiction, right? It's not like real world problems. I always say. Um, and that was the reality. Like, you know, he made a lot of money and he wasn't happy. I mean, you don't, you don't need a rocket scientist to figure it out at where, um, for him, like there,

there was never there wasn't a recently there wasn't an offer there wasn't a two for 48 or it wasn't a two for 50 like it just basically like i think golden state kind of knew what the writing on the wall um you know what was going to be and everything so um it's it you know every marriage has a breakup some is pretty but i do think there ha there is some healing because at the end of the day

If it is Dallas, and we'll learn more about it, that's the place he wanted to get to. And the only place he can get there is with Golden State's help. The ovation he gets in his first game back at Chase Center should be thunderous and many minutes long. What I've always loved about Clay, and I wrote a profile of him in 2016 during the finals, the SoCal fun boat guy vibes sort of hide it.

He is an absolutely ferocious competitor. And that was the first thing anybody talked about when you asked people at the Warriors, people who worked him out at the draft talked about with him. Ron Adams, who's the sort of sage of the Warriors, gave me a great quote for that. I was looking at it yesterday. He said, he loses the way you want a player to lose. It strikes him in the heart. And he remembered everybody who was taken above him in the draft. He's one of those guys like Draymond. He's like remembers everybody who's taken above him in the draft.

And I've told this story before, but the Spurs brought him back for a secret second workout right before that draft. And he was just so on fire in the workout and so just like locked in. Chip England, who's now a coach for the Thunder, told Pop and the brain trust there, like, there's something about this guy that reminds me of Manu Ginobili in terms of his competitive fire. And like, that's not a name people in San Antonio use lightly, Manu Ginobili.

I love Clay. I wish him well. We don't always get what our romantic basketball souls want. Let's talk about the Lakers. Yeah. LeBron. I got to hand it to LeBron. It's a hell of a thing. And I'm not saying it's meaningless. Like it's, it's a real thing that he's offered to take a pay cut. It could, it could really help the Lakers. It is a hell of a thing to be like, I will take a pay cut.

If you sign one of like these four dudes. Hey, how about, I'll tell you what Jonas Valanciunas, he should get when we are ESPN social, put that out. Like the three people that LeBron would take the discount. And he was up there with Harden and, um, and clay. Like he should get a big, we should send him a big frame. How that framed in his, in his TV room. He was one of the three, uh,

for the lebron discount that's one of those ones that just comes up on twitter jonas valentine is three years 30 million dollars to the washington wizards and you're just like swipe like the equivalent to swipe whatever whatever the swipe is that you don't care it's like oh we're gonna talk murray we're gonna talk murray later so i'm gonna tie that into this okay but anyway um but it's a hell of a thing for lebron to be like all right i'll do the pay cut if you get like now we're down on the list that was public we're down to one guy clay

Otherwise, I'm taking the max because it's a genius move because it makes him look generous and it makes Palenka in the front office look like failures if they can't find one of the guys. I don't know. But to me, what's interesting about it is so LeBron taking a pay cut and you've there's a lot of gymnastics. Yeah. Listen, at the end of the day, like.

There has to be a trade involved here somewhere, right? Like there's got to be. What you're saying there is they've got to cut enough salary for his pay cut. Like he's not going to make $10 million a year next year. $25 million discount. If you want to open up the big mid-level exception, you've got to reach a point of salary where he can take a realistic pay cut and you still have that $12 million exception that you could use on somebody like Clay. Yeah.

To me, what that signals more interesting than the LeBron pay cut thing is say that say they pull it off and they use the mid-level exception on clay or whoever. Right. They just drafted Dalton connect who they love. Everyone's jumping over backwards that he fell to them. We spent the entire year talking about how the Lakers have three first round picks to trade. They're going to go star hunting. Trey young, DeJounte Murray. Well, he's gone.

It doesn't seem like that so much anymore, doesn't it? Like, doesn't it seem like they kind of want to build like sustainably, like use our mid-level here, Dalton Connect here. We got our picks. We got Max Christie at 4 for 32. Yeah, Max Christie. It doesn't seem like they want to go that route anymore. They don't. Listen, at the end of the day, if a big name star became available, which isn't right now, I'm sure they would –

dip their toes in there. DeJounte Murray doesn't fall into that equation. I mean, he doesn't. And I think that's where they've kind of gone away from that, you know, gone away from that thinking. I think certainly the CBA scares them a little bit here as far as from a roster building standpoint. But they're going to be, but here's the funny thing, Zach, they're going to be in the second apron.

You know, like as much as we say, like, you know, the big, big three, you know, max contract, the Lakers are going to be like 190 plus million dollars because you have the two max guys. And then you got a lot of like, yeah, like eight, like, you know, 10 to 20 guys. Yeah. How about, um, you know, it's interesting. And there'd be a lot of, um, you know, and gymnastics did figure it out. Like the Marta Rosen is still available.

You know, like he's like your next best guy. Right. I don't know. I mean, he, you know, the non-tax is 12, eight. Like, and I, and I, and I've said this to like, you know, some of the agents I've talked to and everything like that, like, you don't want to be part of a sign in trade.

Because you're stuck on an average contract for three years, right? It's got to be a three-year deal. Like, you almost want to take a discount somewhere. And I know DeMar's older. Tyus Jones is another guy. And then get your value back for next offseason when you've got 15 teams that have cap space. Like, the market will be a lot better than it is right now. That's interesting. I mean...

All these names are bouncing around for the Lakers. And yeah, they will have their picks going forward. Like if they go this sort of sustainability route where they keep Reeves, they keep Hachimura, whatever, and they trade D'Lo because they have to to open up mid-level, whatever it is, and they're not playing well, they could always revisit going star hunting down the road. But you look at this Lakers team in the West and LeBron, obviously, he still wants to win. They

They, if you have LeBron and Anthony Davis making a hundred million dollars, you are trying to win at the highest level. They made the conference finals two years ago. They won one playoff game this year. And you can wish that away as, well, they played Denver. That was a nightmare matchup for them. I just don't like, I get that. And they were competitive against Denver. Jamal Murray makes two essentially game winning shots, close games. It's just such a gauntlet. That's cool that you're competitive against Denver. And I keep saying this about the Lakers.

Yeah, they have the upside to be competitive or win a playoff series against almost any team in the West if enough things go right for them. To win three is just a much different animal

And I just think I don't really see any pathway for this team to become a tier one contender anymore in the West. When you look at Minnesota's rising, Oklahoma City's rising. I mean, we don't need to go through the teams. Which is okay. There's nothing wrong with being a good team in the Western Conference, which is what the Lakers are. I don't know that there's a roadmap there to be

a great, great team other than you just got to get insanely healthy, which they were last year. And you got to get some luck in the playoffs. Yeah. I mean, it's basically from, um, from a year ago, you basically have to catch teams that have, you know, have one or two guys out and you get on a little bit of a run and you get to a Western conference finals. It's like, you know, like,

It's hard because... Different West. Different West. You've got Russell on this expiring contract. There's not many teams out there for him for takers. There are not even teams out there with cap space that would take him. And the cap space game is running out. We just saw Tobias Harris, two for whatever, 53.

seven i guess uh in detroit there's their rooms going away um charlotte might be in play if if a team wants to drop money off and we have miles bridges is still out there too as a free agent um you know utah is in play as far as but none of these teams utah just signed drew eubanks to a two-year 10 million dollar deal according to which so huzzah um

So, yeah, so I so it's it's hard. It's hard to say that change is coming with this roster here just because they're so they're tied into what they have. This episode is brought to you by Allstate. Some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate first. Like, you know, to check you have the tickets in your wallet first before you drive two hours to the big game.

Seriously, you had one job. Now the closest you'll get to the 50-yard line is parking lot D. Yeah, checking first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Savings vary. Terms apply. Allstate Fire and Casualty Insurance Company & Affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois.

We all have plans in life, maybe to take a cross-country road trip or simply get through this workout without any back pain. Whether our plans are big, small, spontaneous, or years in the making, good health helps us accomplish them. At Banner Health, we're here to provide more than health care. Whatever you're planning, wherever you're going, we're here to help you get there. Banner Health. Exhale.

Enough Lakers. Let's do some rapid fire. Where do I want to go? Let's talk more about Hartenstein. 3 for 87. Yeah. Maybe there is a team option on it, which would, again, potentially clear Hartenstein off the year that the J-Dub and Chet big deals kick in.

I mean, we talked about it earlier. They needed a little bit more size. They needed a little bit more rebounding. He's an incredible rebounder. And I do think like he was maybe a little overextended minutes wise. And I'm not sure he could handle that minute load that he was handling in the playoffs for too, too long.

But 25 minutes is perfect for him. And that's half with Chet, half without, whatever it is. I think that's a great fit for them. I think his passing is a massively important skill for them. His little floater is a massively important little, like, we don't got nothing else on this possession. Shea can just drop it to him. As a roller, that's an element that they didn't really have. And maybe it marginalizes big Jalen Williams a little bit. That's fine. Like, to me, I look at this team and, like,

there ain't many holes left in it and they still have some cards to play like that's like this is they're going now they're going for it sam pressy lived up to his vow of like we're going to use this as an experiment let's see what the playoffs are like with this team we learned some lessons they're they're not all in because they have 9 000 picks still coming down and they haven't used any of them remarkably this team is going to be awesome next year we talked about caruso already

I think this is a good fit for them. Yeah. I mean, listen, they looked at, they looked at it as a two year window before chat and jail. Jen Williams, we're going to sign their rookie extensions and eventually Shay. So they had a, they had this pot of money sitting here of $30 million. They, as I, we've talked about before, they never go out and spend on, on, on free agents, right? They usually build within trade draft. And they said, you know what?

What did the playoffs show us? What did the regular season show us? Go up and shore some of our needs. He'll come off the bench. As you said, he'll play 20 to 25 minutes, probably similar to what his role was when he got to New York, right? Like that's kind of the role he is. And it's certainly expanded because of the Mitchell, Mitchell Robinson signing here. But, you know, he gets an average of 28, 29. I would be, um,

I would think there will be a team option on that third year just to give them the optionality when those big contracts start. Because what you could do is on the team option, you could decline it and then you can extend off and you can do all these different, you know, different things. You can lower that number here.

So I really, I really like it. If that's the case, you're kind of paying him for the convenience of the team option with this massive annual salary that Isaiah Hardenstein never dreamed he would get. And he's more than earned it. He's a very good player. Well, listen, they looked at New York had four for 72. That's the most they could pay, which is a good contract. But when you have a team like Oklahoma City was able to do, it just kind of, you know, it just blew that offer off the table.

So let's talk about New York then. What does this mean for the Knicks? What options do they have now cap-wise? So here's what I would keep an eye on over the next couple of days here. This Brooklyn-New York deal will probably expand.

where New York will put additional salary in. We'll see who that's going to be, whether it be a sign and trade precious at Shua or sign and trade out. You know, one of these free agents, hard for me to say it's, it's Deuce McBride. Yeah. Just because it's salary. The interesting thing is that the rule, you know, there's so many different rules here. Like you can't stack minimums anymore. Like you just can't put minimum, minimum, minimum, start adding up contracts. You can't do that. In this,

during the summertime. So it actually has to be like a real contract. So I would, I would keep an eye on New York adding salary. That would mean they would become hard capped at the second apron. Now, not the first but,

That gives them another $11 million in flexibility. They'd have $20 million total to go out and you can sign your two draft picks and then maybe you use the tax mid-level or some mechanism there with New York. And you start Mitchell Robinson. You go back to start Mitchell Robinson. You're probably going to need some backup as kind of an insurance policy there.

Yeah, absolutely. If it's not a Chua, you're going to need a backup. I agree with you. You got to keep Deuce. He's too important to your bench. And, you know, they do if they keep Randall and, you know, this is a discussion for down the line. They do. I tips has never wanted to do this, but they do have more leeway now in terms of wings to play Randall at the five a little bit just to sop up some minutes.

Totally, totally. I mean, that's the funny thing that, you know, like the, the, the, the bridges trade and certainly, and it'll be resigning and what they've, you know, what New York didn't play off. So like, like Randall, we forget about him. Like we forget about Julius Randall sometimes here. And you can certainly go that you can certainly go that direction. And, and,

Obviously, Hartenstein is a big loss for the Knicks. He was absolutely phenomenal for them in the playoffs. I mean, just the rebounding alone against Philadelphia was outrageous. And that floater as a fail-safe shot for them was huge. Mitchell Robinson can match him as a rebounder, not...

Not the same versatile offensive player, a little bit more of a dynamic finisher, but not in his universe as a passer. So it's a loss for the Knicks. It's a meaningful loss for a team that's all in to win the title next year. And I think they have the upside to challenge Boston. It's a loss and it's going to be interesting to see how they adjust to it. Well, here's the other thing. And it's like, you know, we go back to the CBA and stuff. It's like basically it's like, you know, what the league has said is like instead of eight shiny new toys, we're only going to allow you to have five shiny new toys, right? And by the way, and by the way,

I don't want to hear any owners whining about the apron. I don't want to hear about the union whining about the apron. Like y'all negotiated this. And as soon, I remember as soon as you tweeted the details about the picks being frozen and then relegated to the end,

It was immediately obvious at the time we talked about it, this is going to function like a hard cap for a lot of teams. And so you can't now, eight months later, be like, oh my God, it's a hard cap. This stinks for us. You did it. You wrote it. Here's the other thing too that I find funny because there are a lot of... I call it like... I was joking with a team this morning. Like, come to Bobby Marks' therapy session here. You can sit on my couch and complain about the apron here. Here's the funny thing is that...

The league had a year, the league phased in all these rules, right? Like the apron stuff didn't start until the hard stuff until this past April. And everybody used it as I called it, the buffet line, everybody, the Clippers, the box, the sons, they went to the buffet line and they stuffed their face trying to get in every little rule here. And eventually they knew what the consequences were going to be. What I have loved. And I talked to a team about this. You,

You know, this CBA is like seven years. What I've loved for the league to say, you know what? We're going to treat this year as an experiment year, right? We're going to see what works and what doesn't. And then when we get to the summer, we're going to come back and look at maybe we can alter things and stuff like that. It didn't happen. And now you just got to deal with the, we got to deal with the rules.

And by the way, as we go through other deals, a team that said F you to the second apron Phoenix, I said, what have they done this off season? Royce O'Neill, four years, 44 million. It's a good deal for Phoenix. Although Royce has struggled from three in his last three playoffs. He's 17 of 65 on threes needs to make shots, but they had no other options. He's a good two way wing player. That's a good deal for Phoenix. Um, let's go rapid fire. OB top in four years, 60 million back to the Pacers thoughts. Uh,

I helped that Jalen Smith ops out. Jalen Smith goes to Chicago with three for 27. That's five. That's comes off. They're under the luxury tax. They retain their sixth man. It's a good deal for OB considering, you know, skies are starting to get slotted based on where they're like six man, $12 million guy, backup point guard, $8 million guy. That's kind of how teams are starting to look at it. Really good deal. I think good deal for both, both sides.

Yeah, I like it. I said repeatedly, I think he's done enough where they absolutely need to retain him because they did make the conference finals last year and he was an important part of it. His game and his shooting held up in the playoffs. He fits with Halliburton. And whenever Jairus Walker is ready or they need to pivot, that's a tradable contract easily. Like it's a little bit above the mid-level exception. And you want to say like this will come up with Patrick Williams. Yeah.

Oh, we could have leveraged restricted free agency and really played hardball. Like four years for 60 is just whatever. It's fine. Patrick Williams. Yeah. Five years for 90, 18 million a pop. So the bulls pay him more than the Pacers paid a guy who like did well in the playoffs.

Patrick Williams is essentially not developed in four seasons with the Bulls. And he's had a lot of injuries. And he's at the difference is he's only 22 years old. OB Toppins almost is 20. I think there's like OB Toppins 26. I think there's like three and a half years separating them. And so you're paying for that upside.

I don't mind paying for the upside because there's been glimpses of like, oh, he shot 40-something percent on corner threes here. He defended Giannis okay here. He has the tools to be this sort of 3 and D player. Oh, he screens and rolls and makes plays out of the pick and roll. He just doesn't do anything with the ball yet. And I understand he's 22 years old. He was the fourth pick in the draft. I'd like to see him be consistently good at something. I'd like to see him...

To produce points like consistently before I pay him 90 million. This is a case where, but again, like it's, it's like right away, 14% of the cap or something like that. And it'll get down to like 10, nine, 10% of the cap. It's ultimately going to be no harm, no foul. But this is one where I would have said,

My man, you just haven't done enough. Like, go get a go get an offer sheet and come back to us. Well, if they would, if that was the deal, let's say if we're let's rewind the clock and it was October last October and it came out like five for 90. I mean, OK, you know, it's an upside extension based on maybe what they, you know, and then, you know, certainly he's got injuries this year. It was horrible for the first two months of the season. Yeah. Beyond horrible. And then he then he recovered. But.

I mean, it's almost like, hey, he was picked in the – I don't know what pick he was. He top eight. Four. Yeah. We drafted him. He was the fourth pick in the draft. We can't let him go. Like that's the reality. But who else out there – we saw what the Thunder did. Orlando wasn't going to go get him. Maybe Detroit. Maybe Detroit is like the just throw some crap at the wall team. Yeah. Yeah.

But I do think that's a restricted free agent cudgel use thing like other teams might do. But it's fine. Whatever. He's 22 years old. I see the upside. KCP to the magic. Three years, 66 million. Can't remember what the – is there an option on that one? Player option. Player option, you're three. We've talked about the Denver angle. It's breaking up.

One of the best starting fives of the last five, six years in basketball. That stinks for Denver. KCB didn't have a great playoffs, didn't have a great series against Minnesota, and he's getting into his mid-30s. I get it. I get it. Somebody suggested to me yesterday, a front office guy on another team. So 366, Denver's not going there to $20 million a year. And there was some reporting that Denver offered something close to that to keep him. This was Jeremy Grant 2.0 when they offered something close and he left for a bigger role.

I heard a lot of pushback to that. I'm not sure what Denver offered was actually that close to three for 66 with a player option. I don't know what it was, but I know that I heard pushback to that. It's always hard to tell. Someone did say to me, okay, so if you can't match that, why not go years and say, can we get you on like five for 88, five for 90 and use the years as a way to get you? I thought that's fair. That takes him to those things. I'm gonna do his late thirties.

It hurts Denver. I mean, I love, I love it for Orlando. You slide them into the Markel Fultz spot and you have Suggs, KCP, Franz, Paolo, and whoever they have as a starting center currently window Carter jr. Whatever it ends up being like, that's a, that's a great fit and they're going to be a bear to play against next year. It's not like this home run long-term fit, but I like it for them. Oh, I, I, I, I definitely like it for them. I mean, um,

I mean, they were already, what, 10th? I think they finished 10th last year in defensive efficiency. They trended in the top for most of the year here. I said Fultz. I said Fultz. Gary Harris had usurped Fultz's starting spot, but you get what I mean. Yeah, no, definitely. I think, you know, they still got a bunch of room left too, man. They still got like $23, $24 million in room, you know,

Maybe you can go take a swing on a shooter who's left of the group. Is it Gary Trent and low number or Buddy Heald at a low number? I mean, the market's going to dry up for those guys if you want to do that here. But I do like KCP and Orlando. You know, listen, we saw Calvin. It's funny, a lot of

A lot of GMs and front office people have been more on the record. When we saw basically the tea leaves, Calvin Booth said, you know, hey, well, you know, Christian will come in. He'll be OK. You know, like they were like prepared for him, you know, for him to leave.

I guess that is what it is. I mean, if I'm a Nuggets fan, I'm like, man, we've had a lot of good players go out the door. Hey, listen, you're going to rely on those young kids. That's what's going to happen here. And I mentioned, you know, Christian Brown slides into the starting five. That's cool. Like that's going to he doesn't he doesn't shoot it like KCP. He's going to be a very good defender. He's sort of a chaos guy in transition, which I like for them. I like when Denver runs a little bit more.

He doesn't have the same kind of polish in the two-man left elbow game that KCP has, which, by the way, is going to translate great to playing with Paolo in Orlando. The shooting is going to be the question mark, but then you have to sort of back up to the backup problem. And I said last year, I loved what I saw from Julian Strother early in the season. I think his injury...

Short-circuited what could have been a season in which he ended up in their playoff rotation as a bit player. Obviously Peyton Watson was in their playoff rotation. I thought Michael Malone went away from him too early in the Minnesota series. I would keep an eye on Strother. I liked what I saw. He was a playmaker on defense as well as a shooter who fits well with Jokic.

And they'll give Pickett a chance. And this kid they drafted, they traded up to draft this one. Yeah, Deron Holmes is a nice player. They'll give him a chance too. And ultimately, that's what they're counting on. But I like it for Orlando. They're sort of in this, like, we got to figure out

What the big talent play is going to be for us around Palo and Franz. We don't necessarily want to take the ball out of their hands. I think they understand at some point they're going to need a big, a big talent, a bigger talent swing to really, really leap up the East. And they're, they're okay figuring that out later. And also seeing like,

Can we get the full season out of Jonathan Isaac that we kind of got in the last part of the season last year? Cause that, that becomes a very interesting player for them too. But I think it's a great, nice contract for the, for the magic. I have no issue with the, with that deal at all. What have we forgotten? JB Bickerstaff. I don't really care about that. Here's the interesting thing. So Friday night we get, we get breaking news, right? Dejounte Murray goes to new Orleans. Um,

Larry Nance, Dyson Daniels, 2025 Lakers first, which is a nice pick in case the wheels fall off there, right? In a really good draft. 27 least favorable of Milwaukee and New Orleans.

And then what's interesting about this, and this is just not on the court, but the mechanics is that so DeJounte Murray's got this big trade bonus, right? It's the biggest one in the NBA. It's $12 million. Man, that's great for DeJounte Murray. You know who pays that? Atlanta.

They signed them and they pay it. So he's, he's in the, he's in the last year of his, of this contract before the extension kicks in. Right. It goes from like 18 to 25 million starting today. So basically you had like this window to, to do this deal before the new number kicked in, you know, all these different mechanics here. So I said, I said like, you got to get it done now. Right. Like, because you don't want to add more salary here. The interesting thing was because he,

New Orleans was $277,000 below the luxury tax rate.

the trade bonus counts towards the tax. So if they would have done it yesterday, they would have put themselves into tax and lost $12 million. So what you're going to see is you're going to see this deal expand. I wouldn't be surprised if this is part of a three-team deal with the Wizards and Valanchunas goes in a signing trade to Washington into one of those. They've got a couple of big trade exceptions here. But you get Murray in New Orleans with McCollum,

Ingram is going to be the guy to keep an eye on. Definitely. There are teams certainly sniffing around about Brandon Ingram. You get Zion depth is a little bit, you know, you still have, you got herb, you got Trey Murphy was eligible for extension. I don't know how sustainable Zach it is.

As far as the South, all these guys making $30 million. Like when you have, when you have a McComb Zion Murray, and then you're going to add a fourth guy. If you, if you give Ingram an extension here. Yeah. Something's got to give, I mean, it's too many, it's too many guys who need the ball. It's too many guys who need the ball. And you mentioned team sniffing around Brandon Ingram.

Any come to mind as fits? No, I mean, listen, I think Cleveland would be a perfect fit, but I don't know how you could do it when you have... They got nothing to trade unless they're trading Garland or Allen. Yeah, and your salaries, like you're going to probably extend Mobley. You've got Donovan who, you know, we'll hear soon whether there's an extension. You got, you know, you got Jared Allen, you got Mobley, like you got a big, you know, basically you would have to trade like...

Jared Allen and Max Struess for Brandon Ingram. And then you're going to have to max them out. Right? Like, I don't know if that makes sense at all. That feels like one where it's both teams feel like, are we giving up too much? Like Brandon Ingram, he's made an all-star team. Yeah.

Jared Allen is an important part of our team. The Pelicans do need a center. I mean, that's what they need. Multiple centers. Now, I mean, Valanchunas is gone. Nance has gone in this deal. They did draft a center in the first round, but they need a veteran center. And that's why Jared Allen's name, I think would logically come up. Cleveland also just says no pick equity left really, or very little of it. And I don't like Mitchell. Ingram is just such an interesting dude because he's going to need to,

I've said this before about him. You look at his numbers like, okay, 24, six and five. It must be awesome. And something is just not quite the impact on winning does not patch to match the numbers. And I don't know if it's defense. I don't know if it's shot selection. I don't know if it's too many long twos, not enough threes. Like he's going to eventually get to a team. And Fred Vincent, who's now with the Pistons, their shooting coach talked to, talked to me about this a couple of years ago. And I wrote about B.I.,

They wanted him to take like seven, eight threes a game off the dribble, catch and shoot. And he just does not want to do that. You can see him catch the ball and be like, yeah, no, he's going to like, if he ends up with a guy,

whoever it is, including Zion, who's a clear number one on offense compared to him, he's just going to have to shoot more threes and defend better. His playmaking is like a B. You'd like it to be a little better than that. If he wants to play with the ball and work his way into long twos, he's just sort of a trickier fit because this is what you run into with... I think it's interesting to contrast the DeJounte Murray deal with the McHale-Bridges deal, right? So for DeJounte Murray...

They trade two first-round picks in Dyson Daniels. You want to call it Dyson Daniels, a third first-round pick? That's fine. I like Dyson Daniels a lot. He's going to have to shoot it a little better eventually to actually become a real good rotation guy. I think that's a really nice swing for Atlanta on him. But two and a half first-round picks, let's say. McHale Bridges gets five and a swap. And you say to yourself, McHale Bridges is that much better than DeJounte Murray? DeJounte Murray's made an all-star team. He was an injury replacement. He's made an all-star team.

And then you sort of look at it, and obviously every trade is its own entity. This is an apples to oranges thing. But two things stand out. Number one, the position of the team making the trade really matters. The Knicks feel like they can win the championship and they have extra draft picks and they feel like they can pay a premium for that reason. The Hawks, not in that position. And then similar to Ingram, it's like, okay, so DeJounte Murray –

Yeah, he shot really well from three last year in Atlanta, playing a little more off the ball. He's going to have to duplicate that again and again. He needs the ball and he's much smaller than Mikael Bridges. So he's not like a wing defender. And you just come into this like, okay, so if I have like the 15th best ball handling option or 21st best ball handling option, who's just okay as an off ball option, both on defense and on offense, then

What is that really? Whereas Mikael Bridges, he's not...

best as an on-ball option he can do it but he does all these other things off the ball as a shooter and a defender that fits snugly on a winning team it's just it's just interesting i actually like i think the murray trade is fine for for both teams there's another shooter drop in new orleans they needed a guy to run the offense in crunch time their crunch time offense was a disaster and jonte murray made a bunch of huge shots last year and i think he's a pretty stable guy i think he'll defend better in a different context that trade does not they think did not work

I like it for New Orleans and like for Atlanta, it's, I mean, KP wrote about this. It's like 90, 85% of what you sent out for Dejounte Murray, like maybe eight, maybe 75%. You get, you get the Lakers pick, which could get interesting. That Milwaukee, New Orleans pick is probably going to be just okay. You get Dyson Daniels, who's the eighth pick in the draft. Larry Nance, maybe you can flip him down the line. Although, you know, maybe, maybe you keep him for a couple seconds or something. And, you know,

You know, we've talked about this a lot in this era and the original DeJounte Murray trade from the Spurs fits right into this, this era of like all of a sudden teams are just throwing caution to the wind with all these picks. I think one of the reasons they're doing that is in this environment where teams are operating this aggressively, where they sense that the league is open at the top, that windows are shorter. And when you have a window, you really got to go for it. Draft picks be damned. And by the way, the new lottery rules make it so

Our draft picks aren't guaranteed golden tickets anymore. Even if we stink, look at the Pistons who pick fifth every year and they stink every year. I think these teams are like, well, if this goes badly, we can get picks back down the line. The difference is they didn't get their own picks back the way the Nets did, but they did get some picks back. I don't know. I like, I have, this is one of those trades where it's like, I have a hard time getting fired up about it for either team. I think it's like fine. I don't know. Yeah, no, I think it accomplished two different goals. I think certainly, yeah.

you know uh david griffin their president in new orleans he came out after the they lost in the first round and said like i've seen two years of this i'm not rolling the same group back here and you're now you're thinking okay is it ingram is it some other players and and certainly you know it's daniels and nance from murray uh and i think you know where atlanta was like you know you don't control your picks you're in salary cap hell um you get a lot of flexibility here um

You know, I like Daniels. I think it'll be interesting, you know, him and, you know, the Trey Young fit is probably a little, you know, certainly different than what you get with Murray. Yeah, what... So...

They didn't qualify Sadiq Bae. Doesn't mean he's not going to be back on the team. He's going to be out for most of the season, if not all of it, with an ACL injury. Yeah, just because you don't qualify him now, he's unrestricted. You still got bird rights and everything to bring him back if you wanted to do that. They didn't do it because the qualifying offer would have counted against the apron, and they would have had some limited flexibility with that. I said before the offseason, after the lottery, when they got the number one pick,

And initially there was this wave of like, well, are they going to go all in to win now? Are they going to try to trade this pick for a veteran who could fit around Trey and DeJounte? And I said, if I were them, I would go the other way, not all the way the other way, but I would split the difference of I'm going to do with this draft pick whatever I want in terms of integrating young talent. I'm either going to use it or I'm going to trade it for two picks in the lottery and get a bunch of young players.

And on the other hand, then I'm going to trade one of the guards, whoever gets me the most back, I'm going to trade. Naturally, that's going to get me younger players and future assets. And then I can keep the other guard who can keep us, that's Trey now, who can keep us afloat as like an okay to decent team while we ride out this pick obligation to the Spurs. They've essentially done that so far.

And yet, even though that's what I said that they should do or could do, now that they've done it, I'm like, good return for DeJounte. I like it. It just feels a little like, so what is this team? Trey's still here. Capella's still here. Hunter's still here. Nance is here. Okongwu's rising. You know, Richa Shea, our first-round pick. We'll see what he is. It just feels – it's in a nice spot, like asset-wise.

Are we assuming that they're just keeping Trey now? They can't tank unless they get their picks back? He's only 25. It's not like people talk about Trey like he's 29, he's got to win now. He's only 25. Maybe that's all this is. Yeah, I mean, I think his number hurts. I think there was probably a better value for Murray at 25 than Trey Young at 44. I think that's what hurts him if they ever wanted to go out and put him out there. So I would...

I would anticipate him. Unless something stunning happens, I don't think he'll be moved. They still got Bogdanovich. I forgot about Bogdanovich. And obviously Jalen Johnson, who's 23, is the most important player on the team. If you just eliminate Capella and Bogdanovich, they're still kind of a young team. Sure.

I just, it feels, it feels like a weird team that's sort of trapped in between life cycles. And maybe, maybe that's okay for now. Cause I guess I think they did all right on the Murray deal. I didn't like the deal for the original deal when they made it. I didn't like it for either team that much. I should have liked it more for the Spurs in retrospect. Yeah.

any deal we didn't talk about yet but they and they need to find a center like as we talked about and i don't know who that's going to be yeah i know portland has 9 000 centers now i have no idea what the blazers are doing you have any idea what the blazers are doing is jeremy going to get traded like what the hell's going on i've heard some whispers i don't i haven't flushed it out though i mean i certainly keep an eye on robert williams right if he's healthy i mean he can certainly help a team it's got to be healthy though any other deals we didn't hit

Of note anyway? I don't think so. I think we covered a lot of ground. We still got some free. We got Clay still out there. Miles Bridges. OG's a number. OG's a big number. It's a big number. That was probably last week. Yeah, I did that one. DeRozan's still out there. Tyus Jones is still out there.

We'll see. There are going to be some guys taking some discounts here. There's one deal I haven't talked about that as long as I have you here, I'm going to rope you into talking about for three minutes. I know what you're going to talk about. I think I do. Let's see if I can guess right. Go ahead. The Wizards?

No. What was the Wizards deal? Oh, Sean Holmes. Turning him into a human trade asset, a walking trade. Because you know why that happened? Because they lowered his number in the news. Part of the rules this year is that you can acquire players into your non-tax or any of your exceptions. His number originally did not fit into that. So by lowering it, if they ever wanted to trade him, they can fit that into his into a team's non-tax mid-level. Some CBA minutia for you.

Trevor Sean Holmes is psyched about that. I mean, I guess that's what the money is for, as Don Draper said. That's what the money is for. No, the deal I was going to ask you about that kind of slid under the radar a little bit. Five years, $175 million for Emmanuel quickly in Toronto. What do we think of that? And what do we think Toronto is building? And I didn't really even talk much about the Scotty Barnes Max, which I heard Bill Simmons and Ryan Rusillo kind of slamming on their podcast. So we have Quickly, Barrett,

Hurdle still there. Barnes is obviously the centerpiece. They drafted Grady Dick. Yeah. What do we make of of where Toronto? I don't think Gary Trent is going to go back there. I would bet against it. What do we make of Brown on that? Bruce Brown is a big expiring still, which they will use in a trade at some point for sure. Yeah, it was think.

The quickly number I thought was a little rich. Average starting point guards in this league is between 25 and 26. He's probably north of 30, at least in the first year here. It's kind of like...

They don't want to be bad, but they're kind of still trying to figure out kind of who they are. And I think we saw that when they traded in an OB and they got two players back instead of maybe draft equity. Right. Well, not only that, we saw it when they traded one of the picks they got for Siakam for Olenek and Ochai Obagi, which was a strange deal. I liked it. Davion Mitchell is a nice little acquisition. Yeah. I forgot about him. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so it's like.

They're kind of that, like, they're not a 20-win team, but they're like a 34-48 team, right? Like, that's kind of, you know, and where is it? Basically, you're relying on Barnes, Barrett, Quickly, and then Parlay, one of these two guys, whether it be, you know, certainly Brown into something else. I think the Raptors would say, well, Quickly is the reason we made that trade.

And he's making less per year now than all the guys we traded or let walk in and OB Van Vliet and Siakam who are all in the forties or ish now. Um, cool. Like I like quickly. I don't, I think again, is the cap's going to go up. That's going to be not a harmful deal. I like him. I've always liked him. I voted for him six man of the year, two years ago. Um,

I think it's fine. We'll see how he develops as a playmaker. I think it's fine. The Scottie one is interesting. I was a little surprised how polarizing it was just because I just can't get fired up anymore over the 25% max. They don't bother me. The 25% max, like listen, like LaMelo got one, Darius Garland got one. It's an upside extension. And I'm surprised, like it also feels like

Too many people, I think, have made firm conclusions over exactly what Scottie Barnes is as a player and what his limitations are. He is, how old is he? He's born August 2001, so he's about to turn 23. He's 22 years old. He's about to turn 23. He's made an all-star team already. His shooting made a little bit of a jump last year. Now he's slumped. He got down to 34% from three.

I just like 20 points, eight rebounds, six assists. And the ability, it hasn't quite translated yet, but the ability to be a very good multi-positional defender. I'm not giving up on the idea of Scotty Barnes is like a lead playmaker on a good team, a very good team, maybe someday at age 22, based on what he's shown as a passer playmaker post-up threat. I just think there's still a lot there and there are holes in his game for 22 year old players.

I just, I guess I'm just higher on Scotty Barnes than a lot of people are. I like him as a player. I don't mind. Like, I just, I saw the contract. I was like, oh, that's what happens. Like these guys, this could get to 25% max. I don't like, what am I going to do? Go into restricted. I mean, wait, wait, wait till him. I mean, wait till like, if like, I mean, just throwing out there, like if Evan Mobley ever got a five-year one to 25, people go crazy. I'm sure. Right. Yeah.

All right, Bobby Marks, we got more work to do. It's 838 Pacific time right now. I feel like the last time I was in this room doing a podcast with you, my friend, a year ago, we had big, we had big news. Same spot. I'm in. Damn. Damn. Demanded a trade. They requested a trade and

Ended up going to the Milwaukee Bucks, which I think we actually mentioned is a potential suitor in that wild discussion. This time we got Hartenstein getting paid by the Thunder. Man, watch out for the Thunder. The Thunder are like – it felt like found money. They lose to Dallas and it's like, oh, all these limitations were laid bare. Giddy couldn't make shots. How about they get –

They get Isaiah and they get Caruso. I mean, we've talked to Caruso, whatever. And this team pointed out this to me. And they said they didn't even have to give a pickup for Isaiah. Yeah, the Sixers waived him. Just a free agent signing. Yeah. Just a free agent signing. I don't understand...

why Joe and Wiggins? I mean, that's a lot of money for them, I guess. Like those deals are like, I thought they could get more if they ever made the open market. Yeah. I mean, Wiggins, Wiggins, I think because if you didn't do anything, you would have been, um, you'd be basically paying him now instead of paying him next year because he would have been, you would have probably declined. Um, you would have been an unrestricted free agent and Isaiah, you know, you know, it's a $9 million, but probably not. Was it five for 47 somewhere around there? That was the reported. Yeah. Yeah. Um,

So yeah, that's, that's what you're looking at. That's Peyton Pritchard money, but you know, Peyton Pritchard, the best half court shooter in the history of the NBA, Bobby marks. This may be the last time we podcast before the start of next season, because unless all hell breaks loose and let, and look, it,

You know what? I probably just jinxed it. Hey, I'll see you later tonight. I have other people I can go to too. Hey, I'm here in Bristol, man. You'll find me in a cafe eating chicken sandwiches. If hell doesn't break... I was just there two days ago. It was three days ago. It was great. I had a great sandwich. Great wrap. If all hell doesn't break loose and the off-season calms down and then we... Summer League, whatever...

uh thank you for all your time oh my pleasure we'll do it again whenever we need to do it but i just like the amount of work you put in 24 7 to help all of us understand the cap to help enliven all of these podcasts tv shows that we have you're on the tongue you'll be i'm sure i'll see you on the touchscreen today on today's primetime special uh

Be on SportsCenter in a little while. You don't have to do these things. You make the podcast a lot better, and your time is very appreciated. I know you now need to go devote your time to other stuff. So thank you, Mr. Marks. Thank you. Thank you for having me on. I actually was perusing to see where your pod ranks. And when I was on one time, and I saw – I don't know how good those rankings are. Dan can tell us. But I did see it –

I did see it ranked higher than the Kelsey brothers there, so that made me feel a little good. Well, you know, Tay-Tay and I, we go way back. All right, Bobby Marks, thank you, sir. See you, buddy. For the first time, Monday Night Football streams exclusively on ESPN+.

Jim Harbaugh makes his long-awaited return to the Monday Night Lights. Touchdown, LA! And the Chargers add to their lead. As the Chargers meet rookie Marvin Harrison Jr. and the Cardinals in the down. Murray scrambling. Harrison! 60 yards, touchdown. Chargers-Cardinals. Monday, October 21st at 9 p.m. Eastern. Streaming exclusively on ESPN+. Sign up now at ESPN+.com.