Clippers Retrospective, What are the Warriors, Markkanen Teams, and the lurking Grizzlies
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And now, The Low Post. Welcome to The Low Post podcast. It's Thursday afternoon on the East Coast, and the big news of the last 48 hours at least is that Kawhi Leonard has been pulled out, withdrew from whatever terminology you want to use. Team USA will not play in the Olympics. I didn't really understand, coming off his knee issues, why he was even on the team to begin with, but now he is...

Not on the team. And this just reinforces my confusion over how the Clippers handled Paul George's free agency, which Paul George went into detail about on his own podcast earlier this week. I discussed that on the last episode of this podcast.

I don't understand how they handled it from October until July. Nine months of negotiations off and on, ending with Paul George signing with the Philadelphia 76ers, instantly creating a potential title contender in Philadelphia and one of the best fitting big threes that I can remember. I don't know if it's one of the best big threes. We got to see it in the playoffs. We got to see everyone stay healthy, but it fits beautifully and leaving the Clippers out.

In total purgatory. And it has been almost exactly five years to the day since the Clippers signed Kawhi Leonard and free agency and traded everything they could trade pretty much. We don't have to go over that for Paul George, uniting Paul George and Kawhi Leonard. And remember what the mood was then. I picked him to win the championship in 2019-2020.

I thought it was a perfect fit. I thought they had a good supporting cast. Some of that supporting cast you might remember, Pat Beverly and Lou Williams celebrating on the casino floor somewhere in Vegas that night because it was Summer League and posting it on Pat Bev's Instagram. The mood was giddy and justifiably so. I thought they had the best team in the NBA. They were my pick to win the title. And five years later, the Los Angeles Clippers era of Paul George and Kawhi Leonard is over.

It resulted in three playoff series wins in five years. And I will never get over the fact, and I know I've said it before, I'm sorry, but it's crazy to me that in that same week in July...

The little brother franchises in Los Angeles and New York. The please look at us. Please will anyone pay attention to us? Please had these incredible offseason coups announced to the world. We are here. Hear us. Pay attention to us. We're coming for our chunk of this big city. Our chunk of this market. The Brooklyn Nets got Kyrie and KD. Even though KD was injured, it was a coup for them and the Clippers did what they did. And in five years...

They won a total of four combined playoff series between them. The Dallas Mavericks in one postseason won as many playoff series as the Clippers in the PG Kawhi Leonard era did in five years. That just happened right now. And now the Nets are tanking as furiously as any team can tank, and the Clippers are in purgatory. And I've said this before, but I will—

Never forget sitting actually in this chair right here in this office watching game six of Clippers Jazz in 2021, a.k.a. the Terrence Mann game, where Terrence Mann went bananas from three. Reggie Jackson went bananas from everywhere. And the Clippers won their fourth consecutive game over the Utah Jazz to advance to their first conference finals in franchise history. Not to be sneezed at.

Not to be sneezed at. Came back from a 25-point second-half deficit in that game. And I remember sitting there jaw agape. Like, I can't even believe what I'm watching. And what I couldn't believe was what Terrence Mann was doing. What I couldn't believe was that

You knew right then, even if it didn't happen for another year, that you were witnessing the end of the Donovan Mitchell, Rudy Gobert, Utah Jazz. There was just no coming back from that. And it was the second straight postseason where a Clippers elimination game had left me sitting totally slack-jawed in my home office where I spent more time than I had before because of the pandemic, just staring like an idiot at what was unfolding before me with no words and no reaction other than like,

astonishment at what was going on. And we'll get to what the first year of that was in a minute. I think about that Terrence Mann game though a lot because it was the end of the Jazz. But in retrospect, it was also kind of the end of the Clippers too. And I don't think we realized it at the time because if you go back to that moment, the Clippers had made the conference finals. They had finally gotten there. They were going to face a Phoenix team that's kind of an upstart team that

Further along than people expected after they acquired Chris Paul, after their own 8-0 run in the bubble. And Kawhi Leonard was hurt. But if you go back and read the reporting at the time...

There was like, well, he's being held out of game one. There's still hope for game two. Unclear. And really what had happened was he had suffered an ACL tear and the Clippers were being clipper-y and Kawhi was being Kawhi-y about it. And there was this hope that, hey, maybe PG had been on his vengeance tour after he was pandemic P and way off P in the bubble. He was playing great, leading the Clippers with and without Kawhi. Kawhi in that playoffs had been...

absolutely incredible to that point against the Mavs in the first round of seven game series. Kawhi Leonard averaged 32 points, eight rebounds, four and a half assists on 61% shooting in 41 minutes a game. Kawhi Leonard played 41 minutes a game in a playoff series three years ago.

In game six of that series against the Mets, season on the line, franchise construction on the line. It was like their version of the LeBron in Boston game in 2012, which is game six, which is like who the hell knows what happens if we lose that game. Is Bosh gone? Whatever. Kawhi had 45 points on 18 of 25 shooting, guarded Luka a lot. One of the finest two-way games you will ever see ever, playoffs, regular season, whatever.

And he was hurt in the middle of that Utah series. They came back to win it anyway. And there was this hope like, I don't know, maybe, maybe he could come back. And of course he never came back. He missed the entire next season. 21, 22 Clippers missed the playoffs. 2023, same movie on repeat. Comes back, slow start, roars to the finish line, makes all NBA. First two games of the Phoenix Clippers first round series. He has 69 points on 24, 44 shooting, knee injury out the rest of the series.

Clippers lose. That's it. This year has a great season. All NBA total shell of himself in the first round against the Mavericks when he plays, then he doesn't play. And the Clippers, despite one random clutch game from James Harden, just limp out of the playoffs tails between their legs. And now, uh, now it ends. And, uh,

And it turns out that the last season Kawhi Leonard ever finished healthy for the Los Angeles Clippers was 2020 in the bubble. When again, I picked him to win the title. And that was the first time that the Los Angeles Clippers of Paul George and Kawhi Leonard left me slack-jawed watching like an idiot. Except that time it was yet another collapse in a string of three of them in a row to blow a 3-1 series lead against the Denver Nuggets. Remember that bubble had started last

with Pat Bev and Marcus Morris on the bench in one of the seeding games, mocking Dame time, Dame time, literally falling over themselves laughing as Damian Lillard missed free throws in a seeding game that was not even meaningful for the Clippers, thus those guys weren't playing, laughing. And it ended with them

Just getting trucked out of the playoffs in a series that was really Nicole Jokic and Jamal Murray telling the world, we're here. We're for real. You don't got an answer for us. But was also remarkable for how badly the Clippers collapsed, how they completely no-showed the second half of game after game after game. And it ended with Damian Lillard. I don't know if you remember tweeting something to Pat Beverly about, hey,

I haven't made my reservations in Cancun yet, if you guys want to join us. And CJ McCollum tweeted on top of that, yeah, I'll bring the wine, guys. And it went from complete arrogance to complete humiliation. And Kawhi was never healthy at the end of the season again. And the bubble, the more that comes out, the more screwed up the Clippers were in the bubble. Some guys were...

You know, sort of uncomfortable being there. The spirit wasn't the same. It was a weird time for everybody. Montrezl Harrell actually this week on the Players' Tribune wrote an essay about his career and, you know, the fact he's not in the league anymore. And he writes a lot about how mentally sort of off-kilter he was in the bubble because his grandmother had just died. He had to leave and come back. He threatened Paul George, threatened to fight Paul George in the middle of a game because of a defensive miscommunication. You want to excuse, not excuse, but you want to say, look, that was...

Some teams handled it better than others. The Clippers did not handle the bubble well. Well, there was always next season, except really there was almost never next season, except in that little window of hope in that Utah series. Maybe this is actually going to happen. Kawhi did not play again until two seasons later. Going back to this year, there was another little moment of hope. That was the theme with the Clippers. There was always this hope that

And the hope was after the James Harden trade where they gave a pick and a swap, I believe, to Philadelphia, which is like the Clippers don't own any of their first round picks until 2030. First, the Oklahoma City bill comes due. Then the Philly bill comes due.

They struggle with Harden and then they get it together. Boom. This chemistry we've been waiting five, even when the Clippers were winning, it never felt like flowing and easy. And like this team is totally comfortable in its own skin. It would feel like that for a game, five games, four games, but it would always just kind of be a little stilted. Bam. 26 and five. The Clippers go with Harden, Kawhi and PG. They've got it. This is the team. Everything's been building to this moment.

And then they just kind of lost it and never found it again. Then Kawhi got hurt again. But during that 26-5 run, right in the middle of it, in fact, the Clippers extend Kawhi Leonard three years, $150-something million. Nothing on Paul George. Kawhi's under contract now through 26-27. Three years, 50 mil a pop. At that time, so January 2024,

According to Paul George's accounting, and I don't think there's much reason to believe Paul George's accounting is wrong in the important details. They're not offering Paul George that amount of money. They're offering Paul George something short of that amount of money. Where they are, the exact timeline is unclear, but they're not offering Kawhi money. In fact, according to Paul George, before the season in October, before Harden in October, they offered Paul George two years, 60 million. That's shocking.

It's shocking to hear two years, 60 million. That is now Emmanuel quickly money. No disrespect to Emmanuel quickly as a fine player. This is Paul George. Now the best I can do with my reporting is that he, he, what was a little bit left out of two years, 60 was opt in number one, opt into 49 million and then we'll tack two 60 on top of that. So it wasn't just a straight two 60. If you really want to wear a Clipper Darrell covered glasses, but,

which I guess would have one red lens and one blue lens. But anyway, and what they could have sold Paul George on at that moment was, hey, we can have cap room. Like if you sign that deal, we could actually have cap room. Then they get hardened with the intention of keeping hardened and the cap room is gone and the offers start to go up. But man, this is a smart front office. I know all these guys, they're smart. They're sharp. They've been a step ahead this entire time. I don't know Steve Ballmer, but clearly Steve Ballmer is a smart guy.

You cannot look Paul George. I don't care about the option. I don't care about the cap room. I don't care about any of it. You cannot look Paul George in the face and say two years, 60 million. That's an offer with the option, whatever. You just can't do it. It's just so wildly disrespectful is not the right word. It's $30 million a year. It's just not something you can do. It's just so wildly way out of bounds for what would have been like a reasonable starting point offer. And then at the end, they don't want to give him Kawhi's money.

Then he takes it all the way to free agency, says, hey, I got a four-year max. You know, I'm going to get a four-year max. How about Kawhi's money with a no trade clause? If you're not going to give me the four-year max, how about Kawhi's money with a no trade clause? They don't do that and they don't give him the fourth year. They draw a line in the sand at the fourth year, a line in the dirt. And Paul George walks to Philadelphia and

James Harden resigns instantaneously on a two-year $70 million deal for some reason. Derek Jones comes in. Batum comes in. Some other moves will happen for them too. Paul George is gone. Then they release this statement, and I've talked about this before, that they cite the CBA, the Clippers, over and over and over again. And what they're really meaning is the second apron. Well, we just can't, you know, second apron. It's too expensive.

Just can't do it. And the logic just doesn't hold up all the way as I've talked about before, because if you're willing to pay James Harden what they paid him and you're willing to offer Paul George what everybody agrees they offered him three years, 150 Kawhi, then you're over the apron in year one next year, this coming season over the second apron year two, you've got $157 billion committed to four guys, right?

The apron is $50 million. The second apron is $50 million above that. You might be over it again in year two. Now, maybe the might is the whole point. Maybe they didn't want any possibility of it, and now they're going to be safe lander. But you might be over it. You're definitely over it in year one. You might be over it in year two. In year three, James Harden's deal comes off the books. If you want to get under the second apron, bam, easy done. You've already done it with Paul George on the roster. In year four, Kawhi Leonard's deal comes off the books.

You can bring him back for a lesser amount of money. He's going to be old by then. You can let him walk, whatever. You want to be under the second apron? You've done it. The second apron logic just doesn't hold up. The only thing that really holds up is they just didn't think they were good enough to make this kind of an investment, which they were probably right about. The team kind of died in the playoffs. And B, they didn't want to pay Paul George $60 million when he's 38 years old in that fourth year. Fine. But what is your plan B? And this Kawhi thing, this withdrawal from Team USA...

illustrates my confusion about what plan B is because now plan B is, is what all these role players come into PG slot. PG is gone because of one year because of one contract year. And what's your plan for the inevitable of Kawhi getting hurt? Because even in a healthy season, Kawhi is going to miss 20 games. What if he misses 40 games? Your plan B is now James Harden with a bunch of role players. What, like, what do you, what,

What are you doing? Like, where is that going to lead you in the Western conference? You might get 12th, 11th, 13th. What, what are we doing here? And it's, it's doubly confusing because you don't control your draft picks. So normally your worst case scenario would be, well, you know, we'll pick high, but you won't pick high. You don't control any of your draft picks. So 2030 other teams control that. I will just never understand fully why the fourth year was such a deal breaker. And again,

It's tempting to say, well, the fourth year is kind of a red herring. All of these offers along the way, starting with two years 60, starting with below Kawhi offer, starting with, OK, fine, we'll get up to the Kawhi offer, indicate that maybe they didn't want him back at all. But in the end, you did offer three years 150, which sort of blows up at least half of the apron logic. I just don't understand it.

And the Kawhi thing with Team USA stinks, even if it's just totally precautionary, which it probably is. It stinks. And it's just a reminder that like, A, I don't know what the Clippers are doing with Paul George. Just pay him in the fourth year. Figure it out later. Whatever. And just Kawhi, look, he's going to make the Hall of Fame. He's a two-time finals MVP at his peak.

He is one of the best two-way players I've ever seen. Go back and watch Kawhi from 2017 when I voted him MVP in the playoffs against Memphis in the regular season. He was absolutely incredible. And he has these windows of being 90% of that player still today. And then they just...

kind of go away and I don't know even what his comp is in the NBA historically but I know that when he's been healthy he's been the finals MVP twice and he's gone through all the greatest players of his era to get those finals MVPs to get those championships

Save the end of Tim Duncan's career on and on and on like his place in history is semi secure as an all time great player, but it just always feels so sort of empty. And hopefully this is just a precautionary thing. He comes back next season, but I just don't I will never it just reinforced for the life of me.

that I don't understand what the Clippers did with Paul George. Maybe somebody will explain it to me someday fully. I may not understand little pieces of it and little bits of it. It's not completely unexplainable or indefensible or crazy, but

but I just don't fully understand it. And it's just remarkable when I sit back and think about waking up that morning at three in the morning to the series of tweets and storm of tweets about PG and Kawhi and the casino video. And I picked him to win the title and Kawhi Leonard and Paul George is unbelievable. And that whole off season five years ago,

And in the end, it didn't lead to a whole lot of nothing because conference finals isn't nothing for the Clippers. Kevin Durant, toe on the line, isn't nothing for the Nets. Clippers sort of established their relevance. I think that's a big deal for them. Like, this was the bridge from Lob City to whatever's next in the Inuit Dome. But man, oh man.

And by the way, like this was a failure. There's no question it was a failure. The results matter. This is a results-based business. The process was sound, but this is a failure to get only this far. But that doesn't mean the Clippers should regret it. This is a move that as difficult as it was to part with Shea and all the picks, Jalen Williams was one of those picks. Javi Jaquez Jr. was another one of those picks.

More good ones are coming. As painful as it was, almost every executive I talked to at that time, the two weeks after, in Summer League and all of it, said, hey, it's just one of those things like this is what you live to do. This is what you do this job to do, to get the guy who was just finals MVP and the guy who just came third in MVP voting. And the cost is the cost. You get all these assets for a shot at a team like this. And the Clippers took a shot.

I'm not saying they should be like applauded for taking a shot. What I'm saying is they shouldn't feel regret overtaking the shot and they shouldn't be laughed at for taking the shot. While at the same time, we should be able to acknowledge that this was a failure and now it's over and whew, okay. That's enough Clippers. Let's bring in Tim McMahon, ESPN's great Tim McMahon to talk about the Warriors, the Grizzlies, tons of other Western Conference stuff here on The Low Post.

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All right, let's bring in the man commonly known as Band McMahon, because we're going to talk about a couple of Western Conference teams that I think have, I won't say gone under the radar for one of the teams, but I think the discussion has sort of veered in directions that I want to take it in a different direction. Tim McMahon, how are you, sir? Howdy, partner. I think one of these teams will never go under the radar as long as a particular number 30 is on that roster, but looking forward to the discussion here.

Before we get to that, any reaction to Team USA's win over Canada last night in Exhibition 1? They ended up winning by 14 points after falling behind 11-1. I didn't – it looked like a classic Team USA game. We switch a lot. We play a lot of great defense. We get out and run. It's not the most – a couple of alley-oops here and there. Not the cleanest game, but we end up winning by 14. It's a good team. Dylan Brooks was talking trash. I know you're familiar with that. Dylan Brooks was all about it, baby. Like, just –

pregame, in the game. Okay, like, I get it. You know, postgame, like, going between the reporters and Devin Booker.

You know, walking right between the media scrum. I mean, there's all kinds of Dylan. Bad shot selection. There's a lot of Dylan Brooks, you know, kind of classic performance there. Yeah, look, a fine exhibition opener for Team USA. Joel Embiid's got some adjusting to do, got some rust to chip off. You know, a lot of talent on that team, though.

Fouled out in the middle of the third quarter. Had a few turnovers. The whole team was turnover machine in the first eight minutes of the game. Yeah, FIBA foul outs for big guys. You only get five, and the unsportsmanlike foul counts as a foul. Technical fouls count as a foul, I think. Like, watch the fouls, big fella. And yeah, like he... Yeah, I enjoyed the... Dwight Powell took offense to getting that elbow in the mouth and in beach responses, I can't play physical. Like, what?

Yeah, but the elbow to the mouth is probably going to get a whistle. I do look forward to the day, Tim, where Joel Embiid's team, whether it's the Philadelphia 76ers or his new team, Team USA, reaches...

a high leverage moment. And we don't have to hear the phrases ramping up, working his way into shape, dealing with an injury, conditioning, any of that. Like we said, like we're still, we're still waiting. And I get some of it has been fluky. Like in fact, a lot of his playoff injuries have been completely fluky, but it's just like, I was on the NBA today, yesterday, Ramon is using ramping up. He's ramping up. Like, is he,

Is he ever not ramping up? Does he ramp down? Does he ramp sideways? Does the ramp only go up? I don't understand. He's either recovering or ramping up, unfortunately. And in between, the guy averages 30-some-odd a game, usually. And obviously, he had a pretty severe knee injury that he was playing through in the playoffs. Put up a 50 ball while on one leg. I'm not making light of it. I love Joel Embiid. I love watching him play. Last night was like, ugh. All right.

Any strong thoughts? The other big Team USA story of the day yesterday, which involves shoe companies and Grant Hill dropping a Fila reference, which I just hadn't even thought of that for like 25 years, was Jalen Brown not only being excluded from the original Team USA roster, but when Kawhi Leonard withdrew, as I talked about before, Derek White

Team USA veteran Jalen Brown has also played for Team USA in 2019. Gets the last spot over Jalen Brown. The monocle emoji made an appearance, a triple monocle emoji, and then a vague tweet at Nike. Is this what we're doing here? Seems Jalen Brown is upset. He is the Finals MVP. He was the Eastern Conference Finals MVP. All-NBA snub, but made it last year. Does he have a right to be upset, Tim McMahon?

My thing is, like, what was the surprise? Woj reported...

like over a month ago, I think. Yeah, I'd forgotten about that. If they needed a replacement, it was going to be Derek White. Look, Kyrie Irving, he wanted a spot too. He didn't get one. He mentioned at the time the team was announced. I just wish it was like the old days where you'd come to camp and earn a spot, but it is what it is. I get these guys wanting a spot. Listen, if I'm Jalen Brown, like you said, he was just the finals MVP.

You know, he just got bumped off the top of the list as far as the biggest contract in NBA history. A two-way wing. Like, I get him thinking, you know what, dude? I deserve a spot. I'm one of the best 12 Americans in the world right now. You know, Jalen Brunson would have a claim as well. But, again, I don't understand the surprise. And then the one thing that I would say to Jalen Brown is, dude,

what you're doing here is kind of taking a shot at a teammate you just won a championship with. You know, like you complain and act like this is some unbelievable screw job is in a way could be taken as Derek White's not deserving of his spot. So, you know, the conspiracy stuff, he is a guy who, uh,

You know, he takes the swoosh off of his of his shoes. He wears Nike's, but without the swoosh. I don't know. Do you have to be a Nike athlete to be on Team USA? They got two underarmor guys in the starting lineup. So I would ease up on that conspiracy. But, you know, I get why he's upset. I don't think he should be raising a huge stink publicly because I think it's kind of taking a shot at his Celtics teammate.

Maybe that's why a few hours after the triple monocle, he directed the ire toward a shoe company giant instead of just sort of general aimed into the ether rage. I will say at least he was not passed over for a Plumlee or a Duke charity spot or even a Spurs spot because Derek White's not a Spur anymore. Or Jafel McGee.

You know, I looked at the gold medal photo last night because I wanted to remember, like, when did Jalen Brown play? How many times did he play? How many times did Drew play? How many times did Derek White play? And I'm like, there's JaVale with the gold medal. I'm like, I told, I like completely forgot about it. Gold medalist JaVale McGee. Say what you want. He's eating the medal. He's biting the medal like you're supposed to. Say what you want about JaVale McGee. The man has three championship rings and a gold medal. That's not a bad run.

Look, I get why Jalen Brown is pissed. I mean, he just won finals MVP. Like the two biggest series that you can play as an Eastern Conference player, he won the MVP of both of the series. Not Derek White, not Drew Holiday, not Jason Tatum. All three of those dudes are on the team. All four of those dudes are veterans of Team USA. I believe that Drew for sure has more Team USA reps than Jalen Brown. Derek White, I'm not sure. Tatum is just a different stratosphere as a first-team all-NBA guy.

The spot really has to be once Kawhi withdraws, the spot's got to be one of three guys, four if you want to include Kyrie. But given his on again, off again injury issues and just stuff in the last few years, I'm going to put him to the side. It's got to be Brunson, Jalen Brown or Derek White.

I just don't think we need another small ball dominant guard on the team. We, I'm using, we, I did this with Wendy too. I'm going into pull. Croisier didn't make it. I'm going into full team USA mode. So Brunson, I'm going to make the first cut. I just, I don't disagree with team USA that Derek White's game is

He's just a faster, speedier read and react player than Jalen Brown is. That doesn't mean he's a better player, but his sort of random screening, moving around outlet passes, quick trigger, you know, screen roll, make the next play. It's just a better forget the defense, which is elite. So is Jalen Brown. I think he's just a better fit for what team USA. We have enough guys who kind of do what Jalen Brown does, who are Jalen Brown size. I don't mind the fit of Derek White.

and uh last night's exhibition i was pretty pleased with it after after 11-1 i'm like oh boy canada is out for blood here we come back we win by 14 we're the best team in the world we should win the olympics we should win the olympics it's gonna be tougher than ever though tougher than ever you need like the the american flags like waving over your shoulders with all this we stuff i love it you know

Look, I was hoping for Croatia to make it on a million different emotional levels. And I was looking forward to a potential Croatia-Team USA game at any point in the Olympics just for what it would do to the lower household and how it would have to navigate that situation. Well, with Croatia getting choked out in Greece, that was unfortunate. I'm sure that really...

I didn't really hurt. You were down like Dario Saric in the club at 5.30 a.m. I did. You know, I forwarded that to my wife because I did you see in the Euros, Croatia got bounced in group stages in Euros soccer after allowing two goals and extra time. And there was a graphic going around. I think the Athletic printed it that what Croatia did lead the Euros in was fines levied at their, I guess, the fans, the national program, whatever.

And so, like, this just happens after every loss. There's something bad that the... It's all... And then they get in a freaking bar fight. I'm like, I sent it to my wife. I'm like, man, they just...

Just keep it to anyway, team USA. I don't know. I got nothing else to say. We're the best team in the best field. I said, I would take team USA over the field, but it's like 51 49. Cause the field is so good this time. And your margin for error in the elimination rounds is nothing. I'm upping it to 57 43 after last night's performance. I'll take that. Last thing I'll say about Jalen Brown is putting myself in his shoes. They don't have the swoosh on them. Um,

Okay, Derek White's a better fit, but hold on. The guy you're replacing is a big two-way wing, right?

So I'm a big two-way wing. And then you also have to understand Jalen Brown feels like he, even though he's just coming off the finals MVP, the Eastern Conference finals MVP, what'd he say when he won the Eastern Conference finals MVP? Basically like I never get any awards. I never honored it. He's been all NBA one time, perfect timing, got him a whole lot of money, but he,

He's a guy who feels like he's been underappreciated throughout his career. And so this is kind of just piling on to that, despite the fact that he just got two awesome, shiny new trophies that are really, really cool. Enough team USA. We've got a long exhibition season to go. Wendy's airborne right now to some exotic location. Oh, he's got a layover in DFW.

Oh, yeah? Yeah. So we're going to run down to the airport and have a little meal with him? No, no, but I'll see him because we're potting from the, he's got one of those little, I guess they're called like minute sweets.

I don't know, in the airport. So we'll be pod from there. Then he'll hop over the pond. And he loves some Abu Dhabi, boy. You know, when he's highfalutin and that's a highfalutin place. You know, Wendy's unbelievable. He came on my pod a couple of days ago to talk to me. And he gets up. So I'm taking the rest of the week off. I'm not doing anything for the rest of the week. And then I see one pod pop up. And now you're telling me that he's making time for a layover podcast in one of the little booths. Wendy, settle down, buddy. Okay.

I want to talk about two Western Conference teams with you. The goal of this is to hit some teams that, quote, haven't been discussed that much. This team has been discussed ad nauseum all the time. But all the discussion about the Golden State Warriors in the offseason has been about Klay Thompson leaving and going to your Dallas Mavericks, your home-based team. And obviously, I've done that already. It's an emotional earthquake of a move for a legendary player like this to leave a legendary team like that.

Chris Paul leaves, and that's one discussion. And then on the other end of the discussion is, well, should the Warriors trade for Lowry Markkinen as they tried to trade for Paul George in a sort of win-now move? Undiscussed is like the players who are actually on the Warriors team. So let's start there and just do briefly, like if there is no Markkinen, if there is no whatever move like that, what exactly is this team? Here's the roster. We have...

Curry, Pajemski, Wiggins, Kaminga, Green, a couple of centers in Trace Jackson, Davis, and Kavon Looney. A solid bench if they are the bench guys. The Anthony Melton, great signing on a one-year deal. By the way, the rare one-year deal

That unlike Dante DiVincenzo is a big enough salary that they could resign him with non-bird rights. Buddy Heald is on board. Moses Moody is still here. Kyle Anderson comes in on a sign and trade. It's that sort of Steve Kerr read and react screen, make random little plays. GP2 is still here. And you have to start with like, what's the starting lineup of this team? Like that's a fun place to kind of start. I initially penciled in

Because remember, at the end of last season, Kaminga, after starting and thriving, went back to a bench role because they wanted to start Draymond and they wanted to start a traditional center, Trace Jackson Davis. And they just concluded correctly, I think, we could not play Kaminga, Green, and a non-shooting center at the same time. It's just not enough shooting. So I give you two options for this starting five.

my A choice is Curry, Pajemski, Wiggins, Kaminga, Green at center. We just started Draymond at center right off the bat. I do think there is internal hope in Golden State for a Wiggins bounce back season if he's still on the team and they would like to give him a chance at it. Then I thought,

Well, okay. Let's say they want to start a center because Steve wants to start big sometimes. And Jackson Davis was really good last year. Do we just bite the bullet and go Curry, Pajemski, Kaminga, Green, Jackson Davis, and do the thing that they would not do last year? Because I got to tell you, man, I can't go Curry, Wiggins, Kaminga, Green, and Jackson Davis. That's not enough shooting. It's too big and kind of bulky of a lineup. I got to tell you, Tim,

No matter what, I just think Kaminga has to start. There are iterations, and I pulled this question to people all over the league and got different reactions to it. Moody, maybe Moody starts. I think Melton is going to get a look as a potential starter. Maybe they bring Kaminga off the bench. No, Kaminga has got to start. And I will say this. Did you see the Steve Kerr comments yesterday about...

the rumors that Kaminga has been bandied about in certain trade discussions? Yeah, basically said everybody but Steph has been. I'll tell you this right now. Between the starting lineup conversation we're having right now, which is surely going on within the Warriors, between the yo-yo of the Kaminga minutes in the role last year and his production,

And between the trade talks that may or may not be happening about Lowry Market, and which may or may not include Kaminga, we'll get there. And between Kaminga being eligible for an extension right now, this is going to come to a head soon. And maybe as soon as Las Vegas, when everybody gets there, like the Warriors front office, I don't know who's there yet. Kaminga's agents surely will be there. But let's just focus on the team for now.

I think no matter what, Kaminga has got to start, which means for me, I'm starting the Draymond at center lineup and rolling from there. And my bench is some combination of Melton, Moody, Heald, GP2, Kyle Anderson. I got two centers coming off the bench. I got a lot of directions I can go. There's a lot of good players on the team. They've got 12 proven rotation players. No question about that. And look, obviously the Klay thing was...

An emotional deal, but they didn't break up the dynasty. The dynasty was done and they're moving on. And the old two timelines thing, the guy who's really hit on that from that has been Kaminga. And I think you've either got to start him

or aggressively look to move him. Because, you know, like you said, it was a thing last year. And, you know, his camp made some noise. And then, you know, Steve Curry came out and said, you know what? Yeah, I shouldn't have had him riding the pine while we were losing a close game to the Nuggets after he was playing extremely well. And he was in the starting lineup after that. There's no question he's a starting caliber player. I mean, he really did take a –

a leap last year and you know i think there are people uh you know on his side of things would say yeah the leap was he had a bigger role like he's been capable he had more opportunity so

I just don't think bringing him off of the bench is something that's going to be a manageable situation moving forward. This is why I mentioned Vegas. If they all meet in Vegas and everybody meets in Vegas and the message is, hey, we're going to go into training camp. It's going to be Steve's decision. Maybe he comes off the bench. Maybe he doesn't. I just don't think that can fly anymore. I think that could be a radioactive bomb thrown at the Kaminga camp. Especially given he doesn't have an extension in place.

This is a guy who has every right to feel like, hey, I'm a nine-figure type of player. I'm my next deal. It's going to be hard to do that if I'm playing 26 minutes a game off the bench. So yes, I think he either has to start

or you've really got to look to get value for him in the trade market. I personally would put him in the starting lineup between him and Podzemski. You've got two really good young players in that group. I think Pods is starting. I just think they fell in love with his game last year and all the things that he does. She shot it well enough. I think...

I think you can make an argument for Moody. I think Melton would get some looks, and maybe both those guys get looks in the Wiggins spot if that goes south. But I think Podziemski goes in ahead of those guys as a potential starter. Well, yeah, and look, he was starting over Klay Thompson for a decent chunk of last year. I mean, if you're going to make that move,

where you're putting a Hall of Famer who helped, you know, deliver four championship parades to the Bay Area on the bench. And yeah, I think you can put Moses Moody and, you know, Gary Payton II and whatever else on the bench behind him. So yeah, I would go with what I think you said, your A starting lineup. That would be my personal thing. They do have 12 legitimately proven rotation players, which...

You could argue it's too many. You could also argue that with what they've done to shed payroll and increase their flexibility, they are primed for some sort of aggregation deal for sure. Well, one thing they don't have is a traditional backup point guard. We'll see Draymond can play that role with the bench unit. Kyle Anderson can kind of finagle into that role. There are ways around that.

Yeah, and Podjemski's got some playmaking ability. I tell you, though, like, again...

Losing Klay and Klay's potential impact on the Mavericks is a separate conversation. But what they were able to do in that deal where they got a poor man's version of Klay just in terms of a volume three-point shooter and Buddy healed. And then Kyle Anderson has been a glue guy everywhere he's gone. Kyle Anderson has helped good teams everywhere he's gone from –

San Antonio to Memphis to Minnesota. I do think he's going to fit in there and help them off the bench. Versal defender, that kind of big playmaking type of guy. To be able to get those two guys in the sign and trade for Klay Thompson when it just reached a point where Klay wasn't coming back, I thought that was pretty good work.

I like the idea of Kyle Anderson at the four and Draymond at the five with three perimeter players around them. I think that's a classic sort of Warriors, like two non-shooters, but they're both really smart playmakers. They can both screen and make little bounce passes in tight spaces. But here's the thing. The Warriors have a lot of good players. They had a lot of good players last year, too. It actually reminds me of last year's team where they said they have a lot of good players.

good players, but the drop off from their best player to the jumble of good players below him is just like a Grand Canyon level chasm. And six of those players

are total to partial non-shooters where I just don't think you can play any combination of three of Looney, Jackson, Davis, Kaminga, Gary Payton II, who can hit a corner three now and then obviously, and Kyle Anderson. I don't think you can play three of them together. The Warriors have gotten away with for years

playing two complete non-shooters together in Draymond and Looney or Draymond in the center, partially because around those two players, they had the two greatest shooters maybe in the entire history of the sport. One of those guys is now gone and will be replaced for the most part by like...

a normal okay to pretty good shooter, unless Buddy Hill plays more minutes than I think he'll play. So it's just going to be interesting to see how they handle it. I think it nets out is like there's a lot of interesting options. There's a lot of interesting rotation players. Melton's health is a big wild card after he missed a lot of last season with back issues. I've always liked Moody apparently more than Steve Kerr and his coaching staff appear to like Moody. I'm hopeful for him.

I just don't know. It's a nice team, and depth and flexibility can win you a decent amount of regular season games. And like I keep saying about the Lakers and the Warriors, you win 45, 44, 47 games in the Western Conference. That's like nothing to scoff at. You're a good team. That's a good, solid team. I just don't know kind of what it actually adds. It just seems like it's just good. I don't even – it just seems a long way from –

actually being able to win one, two, let alone more than that playoffs series, if not playoff games. Yeah. I mean, look, is this a team that is going to be at the standard of the dynasty warriors? Of course not. And I don't see how there's a reasonable path for them to build a team during Steph's

I'm going to call it prime twilight because the guy's obviously age. Yeah, right. You know, during this phase of Steph's career where he's still playing at an elite level, like I don't, I don't know how you build a championship team around him. And I, and I don't know if it's fair to hold them to that standard. I think it's a, it's a good team. I think it's a team that's going to be somewhere in that jumble of, of,

Five to 11 in the Western Conference. You know, can they win a playoff series if they win a playoff series? I would say that this has been a really successful season given, you know, where this franchise is and more so where the rest of the Western Conference is.

And that's okay. Like Steph Curry riding out the twilight of his career on a good, competitive, interesting team with a youth movement coming behind him is a totally okay way for a dynasty to peter out.

That's what happens. Old players get old and the young players who are supposed to kind of pick them up when they get old are not ready in time to pick them up before they're really too old. And one of the old guys is now gone. This is like a perfectly normal and fine outcome. And I keep saying this. We're

We're like, well, there's got to be a fairytale ending. Like, how can we get the fairytale? The fairytale ending happened in 2022. That was the fairytale ending for the Golden State Warriors dynasty or semi-dynasty or whatever you want to call it. How many legends get a fairytale ending? Like David Robinson. But I mean, come on, like.

it's hard to have a legendary 20 year run and go out on top and hashtag light and hashtag light years. They coined this two timelines phrase, like it was a plan and it was never a plan. Kevin Durant left in free agency. Clay Thompson hurt every part of his lower body. Steph Curry broke his hand. And then all of a sudden it was like, Oh, we got the number two pick of the draft. I don't want it to,

do overdo the wiseman thing that's the fork in the road moment that they had to hit for this non-plan slash plan to actually work they didn't hit here we are so here's the question marketing is the biggest name on the trade market if he's on the market and i do believe despite the skepticism around the league oh here's danny danny's doing his thing you give us 19 first round picks and 45 swaps and yeah we'll move danny's got a price he knows what the price is in the end it won't be

I was going to say it won't be ridiculous. It probably would be ridiculous. But there's a price where he'll move Lowry Markkinen because the Jazz know we can't just do this thing every year where we pick 10th. We know who the next two drafts are. The guy who's the headliner of the 2026 draft, I believe, just transferred to a high school in Utah right in their backyard. They know there's a price. There's also a possibility that they bump him up on August 6th.

and extend him and say, well, we think he has more trade value on this extension, especially if we can wink, wink, get it below the max. I don't know that that will be palatable. Maybe it will. Markkinen likes it in Utah. He also wants to win. Like at some point he wants to win and he's watching them in summer league. He knows the roster. He knows what's coming. So here's the question. If you're the Warriors,

What's the price for Markkinen? What is the deal for Markkinen that leaves enough in the cupboard where you can look at your team and think, the price we have paid in future assets, in youth, in picks, is worth it because A, Markkinen is 27, so he's going to be here a long time, and B, we have enough to actually make a deep playoff run right now. And so I would put it like this.

well i let me i'll just phrase that question to you open-ended you go ahead uh educated speculation i think pod jimski would have to be in the deal obviously you're talking about a ton of picks um i don't know i don't know how much the jazz would press on kaminga i i do think like if pod jimsy's gotten not in the deal there wouldn't be a deal

So Pajemski and three to four Warriors first round picks and swaps unprotected betting against the Warriors going forward with Steph aging and marketing as the guy and Draymond aging as well. And as I've said about the Lakers picks, you know, people just say, well, two first round picks do whatever. Like if they're unprotected, they're,

Those picks from an old team, I don't care that they're in a big market that's got free agency interest before. Those are valuable pieces. I put it like this. The question that's for me is, I think some team could beat Pajemski in picks. Pajemski plus Filler plus picks. Well, and what we don't know, or at least I don't know, is what is San Antonio's appetite to take a big swing right now? Because I tell you what, man.

marking in next to Wimby. Oh, you could talk me into the Spurs getting pretty good pretty soon. Yeah. They've been my favorite marketing team for a while now, but they've got, they've have extra picks, a lot of extra picks, including two Hawks unprotected and a unprotected Hawk swap. Like they've got some high value picks as well. If San Antonio wants to really take a swing, uh,

And it's, hey, we're going to move marketing to the highest bidder, which I shouldn't say that. The bidding is high enough that we're going to make a decision and move them to the highest bidder. If San Antonio wants to pull it off, I think the Spurs absolutely could pull it off. Again, I don't know what they've what the Spurs have done this summer has been a very patient approach.

You know, even adding draft capital down the road. Which they could trade too. Like those swaps in 2030 and 2031. Dallas, Minnesota, Boston. There's another one I'm forgetting. Like those are valuable. Yeah. Who else did they just do? Sacramento. That's right.

And, you know, they got Barnes is a very tradable contract. You know, CP3 obviously is a is a tradable contract. I mean, he's not going to play in Utah, but Keldon Johnson's a tradable. Like if the Spurs want to take a huge swing, they absolutely can. But I like what they've done in the sense of.

They've kept their trade powder dry while putting a couple of vets who will be great for the young guys on that team and help them field a competitive, structured, organized team this year. Well, not only keeping the trade powder dry, but adding to it. So again, I don't know what the Spurs appetite is for trying to make a, not just a win now move, but a win for a while move

this early, but if they wanted to, they could. Yeah, I...

I feel like there's part of, I bet it's a debate within the Spurs front office. I wonder the degree to which they've now made these transactions for CP and Harrison Barnes, gotten the draft equity that they got and are sort of like, all right, let's just see what this team looks like when we get it all together versus let's make another big splashy move. And I've said this before, I can see the marketing Spurs negotiation should they ever happen again.

made or broken on Devin Basile. If I'm Utah, I need that guy both for my team and if I want to trade him down the line. He's a good player on a good contract now. And if I'm the Spurs, I'm like, man, that's like...

central casting dude I want around Wemba Nyama. I don't know if we're ready to do all of that for Lowry Markkinen. I could see it breaking down there, but who knows? I don't know. Yeah, and the one thing that has been pointed out to me by people around the league is Markkinen's trade value might be highest if you get the extension done with him first. And like you said, the extension date is August 6th.

As Mark Stein, I believe, was the first to point out, if he signs that extension, he's not eligible to be traded until February 6th, which is the trade deadline. Now, obviously, you can have the negotiations in place. You can have those discussions. It's not like you can't talk about a marketing trade until, oh, it's February 6th. Now we can start discussions. You can have those discussions. He might

get a sore back in late January, early February, whatever the case may be. This goes back to you saying, well, hey, market wants to be in Utah. I would strongly recommend to Lowry, if there are extensions, you get every single dollar that you can because taking less probably

increases the odds, if anything, of you being moved. Well, and this is why, even if he had any interest in pushing for a trade now, and I'm not, I've not ever been told that he does, this is why he wouldn't because he can sit here and wait and be like, all right, it's August 6th. Like we've agreed on this. Give me, give me the money and then figure it out later. Yeah. And, but if, if they don't figure out the money until August 7th, it can't be traded this year. Yep. And that's an interesting little wrinkle, um, in the CBA. Uh,

I speaking of Utah and I think next week I'm going to hit some of the other, we'll call them bad to rebuilding teams in the league. One of the, one of the issues, like I was thinking about Portland a lot and the next two drafts and Utah and the next two drafts, like Utah,

It'll be interesting to see the appetite that some of these teams have for actually staying bad for another year or two. Because if Portland's bad the next two seasons with an eye on, okay, we take one. And obviously some team will get Cooper flag and be like, all right, we're done being bad. But lots of teams won't. And then the next draft is loaded too.

That would be five straight horrible seasons for the Blazers and four straight horrible seasons for the Jazz. I think the Hornets are in an interesting spot where I'm going to do something on them next week. I think they're actually positioned to be a little bit more competitive than people think they're going to be next season if they're healthy. Do they want to be? Would they dare to take a step back kind of thing at the trade deadline? Usually you get to year three of being bad on purpose, right?

And fans in most markets, not Orlando, where fans seem infinitely patient and it's paid off for them now, are like, are we just like, it's been going on a while now, like five years for the Blazers in theory. It's a long time for a small market team to just be like, hey, we're playing the long games. How long is the game? Is it Kings long for 15 years? Is that the game?

Yeah, listen, the one thing I would say is, is it really their choice? Like, if you try to get good, I don't think that's, like, just an option. If you try to get good right away, I just, I mean, maybe, like, if we're talking about Portland, you know, maybe Scoot Henderson after a really rocky rookie season, like, things click and, you know, he does look like the guy who a lot of people thought had strong potential. Is Scoot Henderson even starting next year? I don't know.

I don't know. I would bet against it. And look, the Blazers right now... As of now, pre-whatever moves the Blazers might make. Yeah, the Blazers right now have a weird roster where the pieces don't all fit. They've just been in talent acquisition mode without worrying about fit. I mean, they took the...

medium-sized swing to get the Aiton deals, but a big swing in terms of the financial side of it. And now they just drafted a guy who... They have four centers on their team, if you include Jopp Rieth as a center, which he is. There's too many centers. And then one of them, Donovan Klingin, is clearly the guy who they...

hope and believe can be their franchise center for a long, long time. So they, you know, they've got a lot of things to figure out there. I'm sure there's going to be trades, but I don't think Portland can say, Hey, we're going to be competitive next season. And I just don't think it's a realistic goal. I would say the same thing about Utah. Utah is particularly interesting because

Because guess who owns their first round pick? Along with every other first round pick known to man. Oklahoma City. And it's top 10 protected this year. So this thing of, hey, let's decide midway through the season after we were more competitive than people thought to tank. No, don't do that.

You were able to sneak and keep it last year, barely. Don't mess around and lose the number 11 pick. If you're going to tank, go full-blown, make it a full-season commitment, and get a tank-worthy prize.

And then it's why like another team I'm going to talk about next week is the Raptors who had that Yaka Pirtle picking over their head ended up conveying it this year. And I think one of the reasons they were okay conveying it this year was they know what the next two drafts are. And, and,

I think the Raptors probably right now are too good to tank with the team that they have right now. But at least you get the clarity of we don't have to go through the season of what's our record, what are the chances, what are the odds. You get the clarity of we either do or don't own our pick. And the Jazz could get that clarity very easily in this case. Well, and that's one reason why I thought last year might not be the year to pull the midseason tank. And they ended up getting the 10th pick.

You know, got Williams, J-Dub's little brother, who's, you know, a project type of player. But I thought it might make sense, even if you're giving up 11, 12, 13, whatever, just, hey, move past that, and then you've got your own picks moving forward. That's not the way they went. And, again, they're in a weird situation. And, you know, essentially, their whole roster –

is on their summer league team outside of Sexton Collins, Markanen, and I'm leaving out, I'm leaving out one or two guys Clarkson. Yeah. Walker Kessler with the improbable team USA to summer league transition within a calendar year is that's, that's a, we got to, that's, that's the Kessler. And I don't know that it'll ever be done again. No. And I'll say this. I give him credit.

Um, because a lot of times, like he didn't have to go to summer league. He was asked to go to summer league.

A lot, especially, you know, like I said, his team USA, you know, he has been a part-time starter, a productive player in the league. Last year was a disappointing sophomore season after a really strong rookie season. But a lot of times guys who are in that situation, I'm not playing summer league. I've been a rotation player for two years and, and pride prevents them from going to summer league where, you know, Will Harding, that coaching staff, uh,

asked him to do this they think that it will be beneficial to his development and i think it's a good thing that he is coachable enough to put his pride to the side and put on the summer league uniform i don't know if we'll play in vegas or not but uh you know go out there in the salt lake city summer league and be willing to be coached and to be clear i still have high medium to high hopes for walker kessler his defense is completely legit like it's it's

You can poke little holes in it here and there, like typical young guy holes, but his defense is real. And I thought as a rookie, he showed a little bit more depth

feel as a passer and touch as a passer. And even on little flippy shots, there was hope that he could maybe extend out and shoot jump shots. And that regressed in his second year as the John Collins thing came in. And they sent a lot of guys. I still have hope for Walker Kessler. He can't play with Collins. So you can certainly question that trade to bring Collins in, knowing that him and Kessler weren't going to be able to play together. And then Kessler just has to become –

a better offensive player. And that might not mean more points per game, but like he has to become a good screener. You know, if I think if you ask people in Utah, Hey, what's the number one thing you need to see Kessler get better at? It's boring.

But they would say screening. Well, their first summer league opponent, the Zach Eadie wall, was right in their face the entire game. Oh, my God. I've said before, part of a summer league should be all the media should have a drill where they have to get around a screen by some mean, nasty player. I don't remember who I pitched it as the last time I pitched it. Now let's do the Eadie drill. We should all do the Eadie drill. We've got to chase a guard around a Zach Eadie screen. Why?

Just to appreciate the art of screening and how hard it is when this big giant dude with little sharp elbows hanging out is hitting you. I would try it. You wouldn't try it? I mean, I'm old. I would get injured for sure. I'm a screener. I'm not a screenie. All right. It's fair. Well, we got to be versatile. You know, you got to be able to do a lot of things in modern basketball. No, I do not. I do not. They do. Not me. All right. Let's get back. I'm a drop coverage pickup dig. Let's get back.

Let's get back to the Warriors because we got far off the field. Here's where I land on marketing. I think Kaminga and a raft of picks...

is too much out the door for a team that probably isn't good enough to win at a high level. And I don't know if I put in Kaminga and I go to the Jazz and I say, well, that means I'm taking out these two picks in a swap or whatever. I don't know what the Jazz and Danny and Ainge and Ryan Smith and Justin Zanuck say to that. But let's just say that the Warriors make that trade. Kaminga and some picks. That leaves me with...

Curry, Pajemski, Wiggins, Draymond, Markkinen. And I still have a pretty deep bench of like Moody. Let's say I keep Moody. Let's say it's like Gary Payton, the second, Kaminga, and a bunch of picks and maybe one small salary if I got to throw it in to make a match. So Curry, Pajemski, Wiggins, Draymond, Markkinen. It's a good starting five.

If Wiggins can get back to beating 80% of old Wiggins, it's a good starting five. It's five out. Markkinen fits with what they want to do. It's a powerful team, a hard team to guard. I still have a pretty deep bench. Moody, slow-mo, healed, Melton, a couple centers. It's a good team. Markkinen could be this sort of like...

catalytic ingredient to their offense. We haven't seen them play a ton of four out. We've seen them play a ton four out plus Draymond, but with the five in this case being an elite seven-foot shooter who can also get his own off the dribble in the post, opening up a ton of options for Steph to play read and react, the bench is pretty good. I just look at it and I'm like, I still don't think

I don't think it's a championship team. And if it's not a championship team champ, if it's not even a, I just don't think it can win three playoff series in the Western conference. And I just don't, if that's the case and like people, reasonable people can disagree. I've seen reasonable people will say that's a title contender right there. Maybe it is. Maybe I'm wrong, but if I'm right, I just think that price is too much out of my future to pay.

Well, I agree it's probably still not a championship team. I also, again, I don't think they can make the trade without Pods being in it. And then if he is in it,

Well, he and Kaminga, I just can't. It's too much. I can't do it. I'm saying even him instead of Kaminga, then I think you get pretty low on playmaking, at least in the backcourt. Now you can argue, well, you would have... The other thing, we don't know. You can say plus salary. Well, the salary, there's going to be real NBA players in the salary. Well, and that's the thing you always have to remind yourself is

like Utah may get another player that we're not talking about in this trade. And the warriors may like poach another decent player from Utah. Like you just don't know what the add-ons are going to end up being. Yeah. I mean, you know, you could build this thing out and, uh,

Would Sexton be coming back? I mean, who knows? You never know. This thing with all the mid-sized salaries that the Warriors have, there are certainly a lot of possibilities. And Markkinen is a fascinating player because his value was not high when he got to Utah. I mean, Chicago basically spent a lottery pick on or got him in the Jimmy trade as a lottery pick.

And said, you know, we don't want to keep you around. Went to Cleveland, had an okay year and then got to Utah and people like, hold on. This dude is a seven foot shooter who can score in a lot of different ways, can put the ball on the floor. Man, he's athletic, athletic.

Wow. He's an efficient 25-point player.

he's still a guy who has never played in a playoff game. So there's kind of the unknown there. Like, you know, if you put him in a, like the spotlight, say if this hypothetical move happened, the glare of the spotlight, do you think it could increase any more than going from Salt Lake City to play with Steph Curry? I mean, I guess you could say Salt Lake City to LA or maybe New York, but like,

I think the Bronny spotlight is going to be about as bright as it gets in the NBA. Yeah, and that's another conversation that I understand. Look, it's supply and demand, and people are very interested in them. I wish everything would kind of just calm down and let a 55th overall pick be a 55th overall pick. But that's in the general there. So here's another exercise that I did.

I said if Kaminga and a lot of my draft equity is too much for Markkinen, I think Markkinen is awesome. Now, he's never made an all-NBA team, and he's 27. He's not 23 or 22. Kaminga's 22. There's five and a half years difference between them. That's a big, big deal.

And Markin is going to get a huge raise, obviously, whatever. Let me try and construct a three-team trade where I trade. If I've got to get – where I move Kaminga to a third team. Say the Jazz don't want Kaminga for whatever reason. And that team sends a whole pile of stuff to Utah. All right. And I send a smaller pile of stuff to Utah. And so Utah gets all the stuff it wants. And –

And we keep some of our stuff at least. And man, I texted Bobby Marks after about 90 minutes going around the league for teams that might really be dying to get Kaminga and three and four team trades. I started roping in like, can Jeremy Grant move around in some of these trades? And I texted Bobby Marks. I was like, man, I can't.

I can't do it. Like, I can't find one that makes sense. And he texted me back. He's like, yeah, I've been trying for like two days and I can't do it. And Cooper Flagg is a big reason why. And he's not the only stud in this draft. This is... Ace Bailey, all of it. Like, all of these teams that you could plop Kaminga onto, like, that team makes sense for Kaminga. That team makes sense for Kaminga. Like, they don't want to win six extra games next season. And then you get into these kind of like...

You start throwing Jeremy Grant. Like, can we, can we triangulate over there? And then, well, that means Wiggins has to be in. And what about Brandon Ingram? Can we do something? And like the Jeremy Grant deal runs through 2028. It's not huge. It's in the mid thirties. It's Emmanuel quickly money now, but it's like,

It's just so long. The Wiggins deal has a player option in 26-27. It's not big. It's just long. Ingram, like if there was a huge appetite to pay Ingram $200-something million over the next five seasons, somebody would have done it by now. That's just a really long contract. And I just...

I sat there and I looked and I did the exercise. I just could not do it for all of these different reasons. I just, I couldn't find one. So I'm stuck, Tim. I'm stuck. And maybe the lawyers are stuck. And you know what? Maybe that's okay. I thought you had a three team deal. Maybe I was, I have Utah golden state and I, I was, I got a third column here. I thought you were going to fill it. You let me down here. Did you fill it? Do you have anything? Oh, but you're smarter than me.

I don't know about that. This ain't the band post. This is the low post. All right. So that's my Warriors thing. Good team. I think they're probably better than they were last year, but very similar. This episode is brought to you by CarMax.

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Okay, let's do 15 minutes on the Sadiq Bae deal with the Wizards. Let's just check it off. Sadiq Bae, three years, $20 million to the Wizards. The Hawks traded five second round picks for him. He's no longer a Hawk. This is somewhere Sam Hinckley

Like got a little jolt of electricity yesterday because this is a process deal all the way through. Sadiq Bay is going to miss maybe the entire season recovering from an ACL. So he ain't going to help us win any games. Then he's on this contract three years, 20 million, where it's like they might as well put trade asset on his Jersey when he comes back healthy and starts playing well, similar to how they extended Rashawn Holmes and turn him to a walking trade at this is just like,

The Wizards are just going full-on, finally, process-oriented. Thank you. Capital P. Overdue. Last year, they managed to move off of Bradley Beal. Obviously, didn't get a whole lot back in return, but I guess you've got Jordan Poole, which...

That's a separate conversation. But yeah, it was time for the Wizards to be bad and just embrace being bad and benefit from being bad. This concludes our year of Washington Wizards content on the Low Post podcast. Until we discuss the Kyle Kuzma trade possibilities at some point. Or his fashion. Or if they bring the Cherry Blossoms jerseys back. Hey, we had one good jersey in the past 25 years. We can't use it again. I want to talk about a team, another Western Conference team that is close to your heart.

Has not been mentioned hardly at all in the offseason. Well, other than recently because of summer league of all things. Yeah. And I keep hearing this team, Tim, top four in the West, you know, locked in regular season standings, you know, just lock it in Oklahoma City. The biggest winners of the offseason. Agreed.

minnesota titanic almost went wire to wire with the number one seed last year obviously didn't get it in the end denver still denver like i know kcp is gone they still got the best player in the world still denver and then dallas gets the sort of finals like we we finally figured out what this team is

In the playoffs, they finally figured out what they are. Yeah, they traded three rotation players out, including an important starter in Derek Jones Jr. Got three back. We think they're incrementally maybe a little bit better as a result. Certainly more shooting. Clay, Najee Marshall, and Quentin Grimes in Hardaway Green. Derek Jones Jr. out. They'll pencil him into the top four. And I keep – then it's like, well, Phoenix, you know, Phoenix still got this big three together. They got Monte Morris. And, you know, you never can count out this team. And Sacramento just made a big trade. And I'm like –

Yeah, anyone remember the Memphis Grizzlies? Won 56 in 51 games the last two years before the whole team went haywire and got injured and Ja did whatever Ja did. And they're coming back next year. I think Ja's going to start the season healthy. Yeah.

Marcus Smart's going to start the season healthy, and they added Zach Eadie in the draft. I think their bench is a little bit of a question mark. They're really hoping that G.G. Jackson Jr. was a real thing. They still have to try to re-sign Luke Kennard and stay under the tax. But man, I think people kind of—and I know they haven't carried over their success from the regular season into the playoffs. Injuries have had a lot to do with that, particularly against the Lakers two seasons ago.

But the evidence we have in front of us suggests that a healthy Memphis Grizzlies team is a regular season wins machine. And I can't wait to see what their over under is because as great as Dallas was in the playoffs, they have the best player between Dallas and Memphis by a lot and maybe a top three player in the world. No, maybe a top three player in the world, an MVP candidate every year.

I don't know that I'm ready to just pencil them in for more regular season wins than the Memphis Grizzlies. Like this team is coming back for everything next year. They're hungry. They're hungry.

deep at the top. And you look at their starting five, Moran, Bain, triple J, like that works. We know that works. Triple J expanded his scoring game last season because he had to, his efficiency went down. I think that will all help him when he has his best players around him next season. And the efficiency will go back up in the experience of,

of being more of a scorer, more of a hub, more of a passer will help him. Marcus Smart will start. And then the fifth spot is it could be Santi Aldama with Jaron Jackson Jr. at center. It could be Brandon Clark. It could even be Zach Eadie now and then. It's going to be Zach Eadie. It's going to be Zach Eadie. I'm not convinced that it's going to be Zach Eadie every game. I don't know that we've seen enough quite yet. Matchup-wise, it could be in certain matchups, definitely Zach Eadie. I also like the idea of Zach Eadie as like if he doesn't start,

He seems like a tailor-made sort of like, let me beat the shit out of your backup bigs off the bench and not have to defend your best perimeter players because I'm not starting. But it could be any of those three guys. And then off the bench, say it's Edie then, okay? Then off the bench, I've got Aldama, Brandon Clark. Vince Williams Jr. proved himself to me as a rotation player last year.

Canard maybe, LaRavia maybe, Conchar is always a maybe for some reason. It's a little bit, they might get down to Zaire Williams. I don't know what's going to happen there. It's a little bit on even on the bench. But if this team's healthy, I don't really know why people are like, yeah, maybe 6th, 7th play. This is a good team. The evidence we have suggests this is a regular season wins machine and no one is talking about them. Yeah, and listen, obviously you're banking on

The medical gods being much kinder to the Grises in last year, which this thing was, it was just. And you're banking on John Morant staying on the floor. Right. And let's hope that he's learned a year away. His, you know, things seem to have calmed or you're not hearing a bunch of.

Oh, I'll put it like this. Last year, this time you were hearing things. I personally have not heard anything that would be considered concerning at this point about jaw off the court. He was just cleared. He was just cleared for, you know, full contact. Everything's looking good coming off of his shoulder surgery. I think that.

Him being humbled ultimately can be a very good thing long-term. They did – the old saying, too big for their britches. I think that would kind of apply to the Grizzlies at the end of that 56-year or 56-win season now. Which was cool. You kind of liked it. You kind of like – the only way for this team to punch this heavy this early is to just be –

so arrogant that they're like, we don't even know any better. I liked it. Yeah, and I wrote about it in the middle of their first 50-win season about how fun and refreshing it was. And then it just got to a point where it was like too much too soon. And then the Dylan Brooks thing, he was a big part of that. It just got out of hand. Okay, Job Bain.

Triple J, like you said, that's a proven, really good young core trio. Now, two critical ingredients to those back-to-back 50-plus win seasons were Dylan Brooks and Steven Adams. And if you look at Steven Adams' knee injury, there's a lot of things going on, and it was overshadowed by Jaws off-court stuff, even by Brandon Clark's Achilles. But that team...

Started losing a hell of a lot more games when Steven Adams hurt his knee. What was it, late February, early March, whatever it was, right in that span. There were 500-ish the rest of the way after that, then obviously last year wasn't available. They need Zach. Zach, you do right now. Actually, after the 15-point 14-year, I don't remember, maybe it was the other way around, summer league debut against Walker Kessel, like against a legitimate starting caliber NBA big,

He became the Rookie of the Year favorite as far as the betting odds that night. I'm not saying that he has to be Rookie of the Year, but he has to be a really productive rookie, I think, for this team to have a chance to be in the real thick of things in the Western Conference in terms of your same potential top four type of team. I don't see why they're not listed as a major candidate for a home court playoff series.

Other than just skepticism of like, we haven't seen it in a while. And are they going to be, is jaw going to be reliably available? Again, I think you can, can Edie replace what Adams was giving them. And then he's, he is going to give them more offensive punch. Like he's going to be a better score than Steve Adams was, but can he replace, you know, the toughness, the physicality, obviously Adams that, you know, he does a lot of, of, of vet type stuff. Um,

And then Marcus Smart, they felt clearly like he was an upgrade over Dylan Brooks, but they are a pretty small team one through three now.

They're a pretty small team. Now they've got their massive four or five if he's starting. You mentioned Vince Williams Jr., though. That guy is a real legitimate, big perimeter defender. I mean, that guy is tough.

And he was kind of overtaxed as a playmaker last year. And if I have Ja and I have Smart and I can stagger them, that kind of solves my Tyus Jones problem and solves it. And Kennard, if they bring him back, can do a little. They have enough, I think. Yeah. And they're not a great shooting team. That gets back to the Kennard thing. Can they bring him back? Obviously, they've expressed optimism there.

that they could, they definitely need some more shooting. I see one really good shooter on the roster, Desmond Bain. And he is a capital S shooter on the move, off the dribble. Whatever you need. Another guy who both Bain and Jaron Jackson Jr. I think are going to benefit from having to stretch their skill sets to the absolute boundaries without John Morant and in Jaron Jackson Jr.'s case, without everybody. Here's a Jaron Jackson stat.

He averaged 11 isolations per 100 possessions last season, according to Second Spectrum. Scored over a point per play on those, which is sort of the watermark for are you good at it or are you not good at it?

He had never – so 11 per 100 possessions. He had never cracked more than four and a half per 100 possessions in any season. He doubled his assist average. Now he doubled it to 2.3 a game. So it's not like he became Nikola Jokic's like a big man hub, but he flashed some passing skills on the move like pump and go, screen, roll, dish that I think like –

His efficiency fell to 44% from the field, 32% on threes, 50% on twos. I think everything pops up and there's a chance where like, just like has happened with Bain, it kind of clicks into place where you get the best version of all the Jaron Jackson juniors that we've seen. Particularly like defensively, can you recapture what made you the defensive player of the year two years ago? Yeah.

I think there's a chance for that. And the most interesting thing about them is they've taken these big swings on Zaire Williams. They traded up to get him. I think Trey Murphy III was the pick on the other end of that trade with New Orleans. They made a semi-meaningful, although they didn't sacrifice a ton of draft equity for it, Justice Winslow trade. They've taken big swings at that wing archetype.

They sniffed around McHale. They didn't sniff around. They made a big offer for McHale bridges. As soon as the nets acquired him, didn't get him. I don't really think they were in the Derby. Like New York eliminated the Derby for McHale bridges. It was a one team Derby. Once they threw out that many picks in the Grizzlies still have all their picks plus extra swaps, plus extra seconds.

And because Morant did not get a super max and Jaron Jackson Jr. is on this declining contract eligible for an extension, but they don't have to do it now. Bain's contract is going to age well.

They have a window where they have the weaponry and the financial flexibility to strike for another guy if that guy becomes available and not find themselves in an absolutely crippling long-term financial position. And their owner, Robert Pera, is one of the richest owners of the NBA. I think they will pay the tax if and when they find a team that's sort of quote-unquote worthy of it.

I think this is now. And right now, like they don't need to make a move right now. That move is like theoretically down the road. I think they're smart to be like, let's just see. It's been a while. Let's just see what this team is. I think they're going to be really good. If, if all the ifs, if at least a couple of the ifs, mostly Morant, you know, hit if Brandon Clark looks like Brandon Clark again. Yeah. I think this team's going to be a really good team. And, and,

People just kind of have forgotten about him, I think. Yeah, and Brandon Clark coming back at the end of last season, that was obviously encouraging. You know, Jaron Jackson Jr. ultimately might move again, right?

If there's reasonable health, Jaron Jackson Jr. might be the one who determines the ceiling for this team. He's always been the wild, not the wild card, but exactly what you just said. Well, and the unicorn thing with him and Jaws rookie year, his second year, this guy shot 39% from three and is swatting everything and thinking, holy moly, like, dude, perfect fit. And he just hasn't shot three well enough.

for the most part since then. Only one season in the last four, he's been over 35%, 32% last year. You have to look at it right now and say that 39% was the exception. But again, if he can be that

Not even a stretch four because he is like a guy at 6'11 and a big body is capable of doing so much offensively. He makes moves off the dribble, you know, full speed spin moves. You're just like, whoo.

And he can play the four next to Edie. They had to get a big because for whatever reason, despite being that big and athletic, Jaron Jackson Jr. just is not capable of playing center, doesn't rebound nearly well enough to play center. They felt like Edie's a phenomenal fit. I'm very curious to see how that is going to go. Obviously, they're a team that wants to play fast. I don't know that he's super...

suited to play fast and you know it's interesting you mentioned you know in hindsight clearly when uh they've made the trade the center swap balance units for for adams that was also as you point out large part about the picks you wish you can go back in and say no we'll take trey murphy there thank you very much um but you know one reason i think that they decided hey

Let's go get Steven Adams is instead of Alan Tunes, who was productive for them is because they, they wanted a big, who didn't need post-ups, right? Because a post-up is taking the ball out of your superstar point guards hands. You know, they want more of a role player type of big. Now,

They think the ED job pick and roll can be super productive. As you said, the guy is a wall setting screens. He's not your traditional lob threat, but he doesn't have to leave the floor to have lobs.

Now I can already see it coming. They're going to supersede the Jazz broadcast as the king of the screen assist. We're going to hear about the screen assist all goddamn year now. Listen, the screen assist, the Jazz don't recognize it now. That's why Kessler's a summer league because the screen assist hasn't been happening in Utah. That's moved up to Minnesota. The other wild card is Gigi Jackson Jr. I like him too. He's big. He can shoot.

He was used some as a screener. He can score. And he was used some as a screener and roller last year and like made some nice plays passing on the move. Now, I don't know how feasible that is if you have the full big man rotation back, but it's an interesting tool in the toolbox. He's also...

kind of a frenetic player as many young and he's very young players are. And there's a world where if this team is playing meaningful basketball games and he's in a slump, the coaching staff, which they remade by the way, loses trust in him for bits and pieces of the season. But he's the other one, like that's the moonshot pick. If that, and I don't want to say if it hits like, Oh my God, Gigi Jackson becomes a star. If he's a productive player,

shooting, option, rotation player who can hang in on defense. It changes their ceiling today, right now. Yeah, he is 19 years old still. Second half after the All-Star break last year, guy averaged almost 18 points a game. Not terrible efficiency, but just 19 years old, can he contribute to winning? He can put the ball in the basket.

Can he contribute to winning that young? And look, if it was like some kind of no doubt thing, he wouldn't have fallen to midway through the second round. But there's a I mean, he is a big wing who can score in a lot of different ways. I think he's at least an extremely intriguing bench scorer long term.

He got to the line almost five times for 36 minutes, which is a good amount for a rookie who doesn't, you know, he has the ball a lot, but he doesn't, like, run the offense too

36% on threes, about league average, eight and a half per 36 minutes. He was getting them up. And that's the most encouraging thing I think from his rookie season. I don't know, man. I just think his team is good. And I think they're going to take, take a little bit of a powder on the trade market for a little while and see what this team looks like, but they're always going to be there lurking. And they're always going to have to ask themselves like we're a small market team, a tiny market team. Free agents are not going to come here.

We have to be more careful than most about – some free agents will come. They got Chandler Parsons on a max deal. Free agents will go there. You just can't let Chandler Parsons go, can you? They've signed a max free agent. Maybe that's the cautionary tale about why free agents –

Like, what free agents and how you get them to go to Memphis. So they have to be careful, I think, and protective about their draft equity, just as Oklahoma City has been and other markets like that. But, you know, they're a pretty damn good team and they got a lot of optionality. And I can't wait to watch Edie more in Summer League and especially more in real games because he seems like a player who...

despite these post-up, you know, not concerns, but like, he seems like a player who's wired exactly the right way. What do you need him to do? He will do, and he will do it hard and with physicality. And those kind of players, like they're annoying as ****.

to play against in the regular season. Like you get, and again, regular season, that's all I'm talking about. Playoff equity, we can see down the line. Regular season, you're like, oh, let me check the schedule. We got Memphis on a back-to-back. Oh my God, I got to face that dude on a back-to-back. Like those guys are annoying to play against in the regular season. Yeah, I don't know that you're going to see any more of him in summer league. That's TBD. He played very well in the first game. Didn't play the next two games in Salt Lake City.

They're saying he has ankle soreness. So we'll see. But the guy is massive. He looks lean. Looks like he really has committed to getting into shape. And he's a big physical guy who is extremely skilled around the basket. He's a fascinating player. One thing I forgot to mention on the Warriors, just to put a ball on it, I should have mentioned it at the time.

you know when we were penciling out the starting lineup we went curry pajemski cominga wiggins cominga draymond remember there was the whole thing like can wiggins and cominga play together like is that is that possible i think it's important to remind people that that turned toward the end of last season i looked it up curry wiggins cominga green was plus 115 in 403 minutes

which translated to plus 14 per 100 possessions. So yes, they can play together. I should have mentioned that earlier. I didn't. Tim McMahon, any concluding thoughts before we part ways for maybe the offseason, maybe the summer? The offseason is mostly here. Yeah, you've got your annual European...

trip ahead of you, don't you? July 29th, I think. And in between then, I cannot wait. In four days, I will be off to scenic Las Vegas, Nevada, where the whole NBA will be there and I can do a little gambling and I can walk around in 118 degree heat. I got my hotel, my undisclosed hotel, my only hotel in Vegas that I'll stay at. I love four days in Las Vegas. I love it. It's not ironic. I love it. Six days in Las Vegas,

I'm not sure I could really love eight days. I think I would be like, I kind of need to get out of here. Well, I, uh, I hope you enjoy the Vegas trip. I will not be making that journey this year. And, uh, you know, it's going to be a fun season coming up in the Western conference.

Well, that's your A territory. Tim McMahon, nobody does it better. Band McMahon, thank you for your time. Listen to him on The Hoop Collective two times a week with Wendy and fighting with Tim Bontemps all the time. Always producing good stuff for .com. Pops up on TV. Does it all, except, I guess, play versatile defense and pick up games. Tim McMahon, thank you, sir. Appreciate you, brother. Adios, amigos.

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