Ep 992 | Jase Opens Up About Being a Mean Kid (It Was All Willie’s Fault) & Zach’s New Podcast
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Welcome back to Unashamed. We're still in our places. I'm still in Gulf Shores enjoying some fantastic October weather down here. And Jace is at Duck Call Room.

Which means that we still don't have dad back. He's still recovering, so keep him in your prayers. I think they're going to start charging me rent to keep doing this. Well, I thought we were supposed to get a new studio at some point. I'm waiting for that. We're tired of piggybacking off of other people's. Since Willie owns this place, I would say that is a high probability because...

The last time we did this podcast, he actually walked by, opened the door, and you know what he said to me? What's that? Get back to work. Yeah.

But before I could answer, he left. Did he forget where he was and thought he was in an episode of DuckDuck? Was the moment for you when he did that, was it a moment of beautiful, glowy nostalgia, or was it post-traumatic stress syndrome? Which one did that induce? I think he just gets a thrill on telling me what to do.

And even though now he has zero power to do that, he just couldn't help it. Well, you know what? Here's why, though, Jace, because you had the power. If I remember childhood correctly, you had the power. You were the alpha. You were the mean one. You were the one that, like, you had the, I remember you were the one that everybody was kind of, we were afraid of. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. But I was not mean.

Well, it's kind of like they have childhood trauma Christmas things going on the dashers. It's kind of like he all the time says I'm negative. And let me tell you what that means. That means I don't agree with him.

So he's like, well, you're just being negative. I'm like, no, I'm saying you're wrong. Yeah. And so, look, you know how tough it was down there. My parents were trying to work out a way to put food on the table, and they kind of let the boys run wild. And so. We had very few rules. As young men, we had to work it out. And the only reason I earned that title is because I would, you know,

come out on top in various fights. And cause it was always seemed like we all were the closest though. That's why you fought the most. Yeah. And you were a couple of years older, which is always a big deal. Yeah. It was kind of funny when we had, uh, Edward Graham on, cause he was the youngest in the Graham family, but then he finally got really big and strong and he wound up whipping his older brother. And that kind of changed the dynamic. It sounded like.

Well, yeah, I just, I just, I wasn't bluffing, you know? Yeah. But I think with y'all, it was, there's a, actually a guy I've been reading a bunch lately whose name is Rene Girard. I mentioned him on the podcast before, but he has this concept that he came up with called the, uh, oh man, I forgot the, uh, the scape goat mechanism.

The scapegoat mechanism. You're getting deep early. This is deep, but I'm telling you, this is going to explain my childhood to you. And by the way, the scapegoat is a biblical notion. It's founded. Well, honestly, he got to the end of his philosophy.

And at the end of it, he came to know Christ because he had a, uh, he got cancer and, and he had this existential crisis where he thought he was going to die. And he had this encounter with Christ. And he's like, wait, all my philosophy that I've developed this pointing to the ultimate scapegoat, which was Christ. And that actually was the conclusion that he came to, but in the end, but, uh, the idea is that societies or people like they, uh,

Like they inevitably have a conflict. Like you can't avoid conflict because we all mimic each other's desires. And so you have two kids and they want the same toy. And so they basically fight to the death to get the humans are the only species that he says will consistently fight to the death. Typically, like with two bucks go at it.

or two lions or whatever, they'll go, they'll fight until one proves their dominance and then it's settled. Humans are different that will fight to the death. And so he said what happens in societies is at some point in the whatever the process, and I don't agree with everything he said, but this is kind of interesting. He said these societies break out, wars break out because we want the same thing and we can't both have it.

So we fight. And somewhere along the way, two groups were fighting and somehow they both got mad at another group and they focused on the other group, which became the scapegoat. And for a moment, they actually became friends and they found that through finding the scapegoat, they could actually fight.

peace. And I think that's what was happening at y'all's house is that y'all were fighting as, because, but then we would come in and, and it was like, if you were visiting all the, all the rage, the anger, the hostility, the pain, the,

The, you know, you guys had grown up. It was all directed at the, at the cousins. And so we, we were literally the scapegoats for your, for you guys. And so I'm not bitter about it. No, you're just your trauma. This is turned into a trauma therapy. This is a second. We've been to the therapist, all of it. I mean, I love you guys.

I really, really love you both. It was tough times. It was tough times. My dad was, you know, a man's man early on, and he would do things that, like not wear shoes for a couple of years. So I just think it was a tough environment that we were raised in, and we were tough, and you had to be. So there were lots of fights, but I didn't know that it was –

I really never paid you no mind, you know, when you...

I don't have any memory of you even being around when I was a kid. So, well, if I was, uh, which is why you get a horn blow from I-40 when he comes through Black Mountains, that that's interesting. That hurts even worse, man. I just don't have any. That hurts worse than, than the pain I endure that you didn't even register. It didn't even register in your mind, but it's seared in my, in my memory and my very inner being of,

Yeah. Wow. But the fact is so funny to me now shows you how, how warped our view of our situation was because you just have to laugh about it. It's like, I mean, look, all I thought about was hunting, fishing and when's the next domino game.

And you weren't like a tormentor. You were just like, don't get in your way kind of guy. It was like, don't, don't, don't try to. But now Willie was a little more on the torment. He was, he was, he was probably the one, honestly, he probably was receiving from you guys. He really, what would I think about it? Yeah. He, you know what, now that we're talking about this, it really was. Yeah.

He was, he was very, he was, he tormented me. You know, one of my favorite things that Willie said when he came on our podcast on Unashamed the first time we were talking about something, he talked about it being intimidating to come in there to be on the podcast with us. And I

I mean, I just thought I got so tickled because I never think of it. You know, he's the boss. Yeah, I was surprised he said that. I was super surprised he said that. I was too. So I think that went back to that idea. It told me a lot about the way Willie was because he would like we talked about it recently. He would run away because he was being abused by us or whatever. But he'd only run away till supper.

And he would go fix up some place, and he was going to live there. And, you know, there's only so many places around the property, around the six acres, that he could find. But wouldn't he, Jase? He'd make him a little fort. Oh, yeah. Well, it was just, you know, because Willie liked to make fun of other people. And I never liked that. I mean, look, I have a good time, make jokes. But I don't do it at the expense of other people. Yeah. And he would do that, and it just –

I would just attack him for it. I would take up. He is the best at it. He is. And now, look, it's no big deal because we laugh at ourselves. But I never crossed that line. I was like, I make fun of what people do, but not just their anatomy. But my dad and Willie have always had a way. If there's a way to offend somebody, they'll do it.

Yeah. And well, he's so good at it. We were at an event one time and me and Willie were together and I just thought about this. So we got a table at the front of this event and the guy that had basically put on the whole thing, a very wealthy individual, Willie comes up and the guy is wanting to talk to Willie. He's wanting to shake hands with him and meet him.

And Willie walks up to the guys, starts talking to me and I'm trying to introduce him to this guy. Cause I know this is the guy that's put on the event and Willie, Lily shakes his hand or puts his hand on his shoulder. He says, yeah, go get me. I'll take a coffee with two creams. And,

The guy's like, what? Yeah, I took a car. And he's just messing, but he's like, I'm like, how do you get away? I don't know. Somebody gets away with it. Yeah, I know. My whole family does. All of y'all are like that, yeah. So we were, when I was caddying for Willie, he was in that big celebrity golf tournament thing at Lake Tahoe.

we were doing the practice round and one of the people, I mean, this is like a big money man. And of course, you know, they, they arrange it all so they can play with one of the people who were there who are well-known. And so, you know, they're all like meeting Willie. Well, one of them had a son there and he was, I guess a teenager. And when they looked over and he said, Hey bro, cheesy, go to, would you go over and get that ball? I just hit out the edge of that pod. And I just got so tickled. Cause I was like, he called him bro. Cheesy. Yeah.

And they just laughed. You know, he's like, Mr. Willie called me bro cheesy. He was not offended at all. And I thought only Willie could get away with it. The question is, did he go get the ball out of the puck? He went and got the ball out of the puck. That's the magic. Well, see, that's why we fall.

Because when he called me bro cheesy, I fired a spent D battery at his head. So I wish we would have all of my regrets, which I'm fixed to have. I got breaking news. I did something for the first time in 45 years last night. Uh-oh.

So before I tell you that. And you're almost 55, so you would have been a nine-year-old. First time in 45 years. I did something last night I had not done in 45 years. And look, I actually didn't realize that people still did this. But before I tell you that, I was going to say, I wish we had taken a picture of the room where we all stayed as kids.

Because every three or four inches, there was a hole in the wall. It looked like a hailstorm had entered the inner room and gone sideways. And that was from the debris that we threw at each other through the years. Nobody ever fixed those walls. I forgot about it. Everybody was big about throwing stuff. When we had a trailer during the bar years from the movie,

Mom and dad bought a brand new trailer. I don't know if you remember, Jason, because you were little. Oh, yeah. It was kind of yellow and white, and it was a dumpster fire. Yeah, it was brand new originally, but they're so cheap. And this was probably 1973 or so. And that every bed, every piece of furniture that had legs, everything was on the floor, like broken down within the first year of that trailer.

I mean, and it was just us, just roughhousing and wrestling. And because Willie was little and then Jace was probably about five. Yeah. It was crazy. No, it was. But we used to do that. I mean, the last memory I had of that was somehow when my mom was a teenager, she twirled the baton. Yeah. And somehow he had gotten hers and he threw that thing at me.

And I just moved my head back and it stuck through the door. That's how thin that door was. Just like six inches in front of my eyes. And I thought, man, what if that thing would have hit me? You know, I mean, it went through that door. And it was there for about a week until Miss Kay saw it. She threw a fit. You know, she's like, how did that, why did y'all try to open the door with that baton?

Nobody said what happened. She thought we were trying to somehow bust open the door to get in it because it was locked. Well, they were so busy just trying to survive and run that bar. They didn't realize that it was survival of the fittest going on out behind the bar. We're always trying to keep a good cell phone coverage going.

Because, you know, in your case, you're taking pictures at Treasure. You're doing all sorts of things out there. Yeah. I mean, usually that's the last thing on my mind. But, you know, it's like anything else when you need it.

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So join us, switch to America's only Christian conservative mobile provider, Patriot Mobile, by going to patriotmobile.com slash phil, or you can call them at 972-PATRIOT for your free month of service today. So last night, I actually went, of course, this podcast won't come out for a while, so I'm dating myself. But last night, for the first time in 45 years, I went trick-or-treating in the neighborhood.

And I was shocked that there are people that still do this. Oh, gosh. It's a big deal. I really thought they... You remember back in the 70s when they had the razor blades and the fruits and the people getting sick? I thought that ended it. That's how oblivious I have been of life, which usually during this time of year, I'm getting ready for ducks. And I just didn't know...

People were still doing that. We took the little man. Yeah, the little man that we keep and his mom. I was actually the driver. And it felt like, you know, it felt weird. I made an illustration that was kind of poor. Missy's like, that's terrible.

I said, I feel like we're coming in and robbing a bank, you know, and I'm the getaway driver, you know, because I wouldn't walk up to the house because I didn't want to scare anybody. Were you doing it in a golf cart? Yeah, in a golf cart. And look, I actually saw your two daughters. They were the first people I saw. And Alex was walking with her little family and friends.

And then Anna had set up a station with Howard Carbo of all people. And so when I looked at him, I said, are you a trick or a treat? Because he had a...

Halloween helmet on with lights going off. He was, it was a Randy macho man, savage hat. He wears it every year. And he actually said, chase that offends me. And I said, I thought this was trick or treat. I'm trying to figure it out. He's like, I'm obviously a tree. And I was like, well, it looks like a trick with your head lighting up. I didn't know. I thought you were actually doing the trick.

So usually Jay's Bill Angely joins us. Who's another old bachelor like Carbo. And we were out there last year because we were home. And so we set up because the outside to take the kids around the neighborhood, like you guys do. And so we stay there. So the neighborhood kids can get candy at her house. It's a big deal in our neighborhood. It's safe, which is really good. But Bill was there last year and this kid come up and he was wearing like a captain America jacket.

Get up. He had a lot of red, white and blue on. And Bill looks at him. He's about 10 years old. And he says, son, are you a Republican?

And the little kid said, I don't know. He said, well, ask your mother because you get two pieces of candy if the answer is yes. Oh, wow. So Bill does some political recruiting for the neighborhood. You better be careful doing that around where I live. But we had 3,000. I bet we had 3,000 trick-or-treaters come out of the house last night.

Because it's big in your area, right? Oh, it's about a four. Oh, yeah. There's a four-street radius. It is a massive ordeal. My little story, I saw about 50 people walking around. But look, people there, they get on their porch. And so that's how, it's not like back when I remembered it at 10, you knocked on the door and you didn't know.

whether this was going to be a good deal or not, you know, get off my property or, but really, Al, I remember back when we did this, because we only had two houses, our house and my grandparents' house. So we just got dressed up, walked outside, and then knocked on our own door, got the candy, and then we went to the grandparents, and she would give like an orange,

Which I always thought was the weirdest thing ever. Just some dates, maybe. Yeah. No, that was, that was my trick or treating, uh, memory, but it was actually fun. I got to meet the neighbors, you know, I got a little nervous cause one of them does a police car there. And I was like, Oh, that's trouble. I don't go there.

And Missy's like, why? I was like, well, we're technically driving a golf cart through the neighborhood. I'm not sure that's legal. And she's like, babe, he's not going to give you a ticket. Because now I'm gun shy. I was going to say, you've had a bad experience. But they were sitting there. And she's like, look, he's out there with a basket of cans. So we pulled in. I was like, well, let's get in good with the police. We have four police officers in our neighborhood. And so actually, I said, I just want to say,

Because he was like, you know, happy Halloween or whatever. I said, I just want to say no laws were broken that I know of.

and coming up here. And he said, hey, I'm off duty. I don't care what you do. I was like, oh, we're going to get along great then. I said just like that. No laws were broken. But it was a good way to get to meet a lot of neighbors, you know. And I actually thought it was a very positive experience. It was funny because last night was a little bit of a rite of passage. So Corby, who's my oldest grandson, he's in fifth grade now.

Which is your last year of elementary school, because next year will be in middle school. And so he didn't want to go with his brother and sister and mom and the little crew you saw. He wanted to go with his buddies.

So last night was the rite of passage. You know, now it's like the pack. So it was like, yeah, I've never been into Halloween because of the kind of evil side of it. So I've always been that guy. I'm like, look, I'm not in the ghost goblins darkness. And, but all the people, they were friendly. There was one, they look like two net teenagers that kind of had the scary, uh,

Look, because little man was like, he looked at me like, he was literally scared. Yeah. And then this old dude, there was some movie that I never watched, but you wear a mask. I had recognized it from just seeing the previews. It was like, I can't remember what the movie was. Maybe Scream or something. It was just like a weird mask. It was terrifying. That guy was looking at me and I literally saved his life because while he was staring at me,

with this mask, he was fixed to walk into a mailbox. And so I said, hey, watch out for that mailbox. And about the time he turned around, he had just enough time because it was literally fixed to hit him right in the head because he was walking fast, looking mean. Yeah.

I was like, he's teenagers. You should have just let that one go. I think I'd have just waited to watch the crash. I thought, what would Jesus do? He's dressed up scary. I saved his life. Maybe I'll get an Enro. You did the right thing. So anyway, that's my story. We did it. It was good. Little man. He went as a fireman.

But he's a fireman every day. He's into firefighting. So did you and Missy dress up too? Because y'all usually have to dress up for him. Oh, this is my costume. I looked exactly like I do right now. And people think, oh, you're doing the duck thing. It is ironic, Jay said about this Halloween discussion, that for two years at the peak of our little duck show,

Duck Dynasty costumes, which were a beard, a bandana, a beanie hat, you know, whatever, were the number one costume for a couple of Halloweens in a row, or at least on the top five. So it is kind of ironic, Jace, that you, your look, because it was mostly you, Willie, Si, and Dad, were someone else's Halloween costume. They dressed up to look like you.

Yeah, that's weird. I don't know where to go with that, but I'm just saying it happened. Yeah. Well, Phil tells a famous story. So if he was here, this is what he would tell. But we were on a duck hunting trip. We've told this before. And we went into a Walmart and getting supplies because we would go film three or four days on the road for our little videos, but we didn't. And we walked in and the greeter at Walmart said, we have a winner.

And Phil's like, what are you talking about? It's like, well, it's the costume contest. She was dead serious. We had no costumes on. We had come from hunting. We had black face paint on, the beards, and we won. I don't know what we were representing. We literally won a contest at Walmart and got a cake that would have been better three days before. Yeah.

Winner, winner, scary dinner. Yeah, because we had no idea it was Halloween. It was funny. Nobody knew that. So that was a precursor to what would happen later. Zach, before we go to get into our Bible study today. Let me say this first. I do have a Halloween story. Okay, good. Let's hear it. The Halloween story is...

I'm debating whether I should tell this or not, but did this really happen? I'll correct you if it is. Yeah, somebody brought a pinata. Now, we're talking about like there's so many people you can't even keep up with them. But there was a pinata left in the front of our yard. And at the end of the night, the kids get around it and they start beating the pinata with whatever sticks they can find to bust it open.

And they're just whacking this pinata and it cracks open. And then we didn't see, I saw him hitting it, but I didn't realize everything that had happened until they gather the candy and other things. And they go back to their parents to put the candy in their buckets. And inside of this pinata, I'm not kidding you, were bottles of liquor, little bottles of liquor and condoms. And condoms? Yeah.

In the pinata. In the pinata. And I thought they were kidding because they came up to me and said, hey, Zach, was that your pinata? And they were telling me what was in there. Oh, yeah, I'm just making jokes. And everyone's looking at me like, are y'all serious? Was that really? And they pulled it up and said, yeah, look at this. This is what our kids came back with. So there's something to be said for having your Halloween.

In a controlled environment. Yeah, controlled environment. So we're going to have security patrols next year.

uh, and see, that's such a shame. This is what we got. This is Jay's described. There's what we got to back in the seventies. You just get some weird old people and ruin something that's fun. Well, cause in the, well, in the, I think in the original idea, it was kind of based on a pagan ritual, which has been among the religious world, you know, which is why I've never really been into Halloween. I mean, I was just like, but I think if you dress up,

And you meet the neighbors and you give the kids some candy and make it, you know, more of a fall festival. It's kind of like what Sadie says. One time we were talking about TikTok and she said, well, I've just decided I want to try to own that space for God. Yeah. And I thought, well, so that's kind of what you're talking about doing.

Let's take something that should be fun for kids and make it fun for kids. Well, it's an opportunity to, you know, you're also supposed to love your neighbor and they're all out on the porch. So, I mean, I met a lot of people last night that I had never met before. Well, we, we ended our night and we, this has become a tradition in the front yard. We end the night with worship and our neighbors come around and, um, different people we know and love and are friends with will come around. We probably had, uh,

150 people in the front yard just worshiping for about 20 minutes and that's kind of like how we seal the night so i think one year a few years ago didn't y'all end it with the max and the garage band we're going to have a little concert oh no that wasn't how it went that but that yeah that went over that was a dumpster fire there that was during covid uh layla and max throw up uh right in the center of cut dead center of the quarantine they're like with that we want to do a concert

build a backstage and they have their friends come in and play. And so we had about a hundred high school kids in the yard. They were playing music. And of course the,

The online, there's a whole lot of drama on Facebook with our town. It's hilarious. It's like a message board. And everyone's like, who's playing a concert in the middle of a blankety blank pandemic? And the cops show up. And the guy looks at me, he's like,

And I was like, is this like, are we breaking the law here? He's man. I don't want to be like a bad dude, but I mean, do you care to just shut it down? I don't want to create controversy. I was like, you got two more songs. And, uh, and so they played that, they played it out. And, but yeah, we had a concert right before the pandemic happened.

Jace, there's something about the American culture. It's kind of always been in our psyche that we love movies. I mean, it's just, it's been around for, for our lifetimes and beyond. Um, what do you think about, uh, you see any good movies lately? Well, I would say overall the quality of movies in the last, I'm going to say 15 years has, it's just gone downhill. Yeah. However,

There is a group of people, Angel Studios, who's been on a roll. And so I saw their newest movie, Bollocks.

Bonhoeffer, which what a story. And you really couldn't find a better story that fits into where our world is today. As we sort of see the world in this man lining up division, Dietrich Bonhoeffer is swept into this epicenter of this deadly plot to assassinate Hitler in this new movie that Jay's mentioned from Angel Studio. And it's called Bonhoeffer, Pastor, Spy, Assassin.

Hits theaters November 22nd. You can get your showtimes right now at angel.com slash unashamed. With Bonhoeffer, he had his faith and his fate at stake, but he had to choose between upholding his moral convictions or risking it all to save millions of Jews from genocide.

Will his shift from preaching peace to plotting murder alter the course of history, or will it cost him everything? Check it out this Thanksgiving. See Showtime's Near You and get your tickets today at angel.com slash unashamed. This is a movie you don't want to miss. Go to angel.com slash unashamed. That's angel.com slash unashamed.

So, Zach, before we go to the Bible study, you've got a new podcast you're launching. And apparently, Zach is having to dumb it down so much with us that he needs another platform to be able to go into his deeper knowledge.

The deeper, uh, yeah, I was trying to call it deep words, but our big words or something like that. Uh, what is it going to become? Zach's not dumbing it down now. We're dumbing it down for him. Yeah, no, it is a little, uh, uh, yeah, we're getting into a little, uh, more of the philosophy stuff, but it's called not yet now. And it really is. I mean, we, a lot of what we talk about in the, in this podcast, but it's even the title not yet now. Um,

a lot it's a focus on what does it look like life in the kingdom so we'll be posting these every tuesday which is so if you're listening and you're like well we don't have an unashamed podcast on tuesday well we all have this i'll have this one on tuesday for those of you who want to kind of continue in the discussion so you could go anywhere podcast or heard by the way honestly we're going to be launching it um on tuesday let me get the the right uh are you gonna have an interpreter no that's what i'm saying this is the warning you have if you're coming

then you're saying, I'm ready. We're not going to make any judgments on what kind of languages you use. It's a free space, no judgment zone, safe space. It'll be November 19th is when we'll launch it. Anywhere podcasts are heard, not yet now. You can also probably look it up by name. Our YouTube channel is going to be at DasherZach.

But you got to be careful with the YouTube because I got some other YouTube stuff when I ran for office that's out there. But at DasherZack will be the page that it'll be on. But, Jace, I'm going to have to have you on, man, because I want to – because we're going to get – we're going to get – I want people to see the – Jace is a lot deeper than he –

He puts on sometimes. He's actually very, very, very, very intelligent. So bring me in when it's time to clean it up. Okay. I'll bring you in. That's just what you need. Another podcast to do. Yeah. Well, we're going to get into some more like it's a little more of a slower pace. So that, cause there's some stuff like about politics and culture that I'll probably dive into a little bit more current events. Um,

But yeah, if, but if you guys go and go ahead and subscribe to the, it helps us get the algorithm up there. So we get exposure and get this. I think it's going to be really helpful podcast. Really. It's just an extension of kind of the ministry that we're doing here in North Carolina. And so I would say that would be a prerequisite for going to your podcast. If you know what the word algorithm means,

Then come, come join. Come talk to Zach. Not yet. If you want to be able to use the word eschatology and without fear of judgment or ridicule, we have a place for you. It's actually kind of a sigh like title because, you know, when size says no, no, he means yes. Yeah. And when he says, yeah, no, no, he means no. Yeah. So I got news for you. The kingdom is here.

That's the thing. But it is to come as well. You will get new bodies at some point, which will then make you able to live eternally. Yes. But you have the Spirit, so there you go. I think that's a good topic. Because, as we learned from back in Colossians 1,

Jesus is the firstborn of creation, but he's also the firstborn from the dead. Yeah, the prototype. Just think about that. There's more to come. If you have that power. You're going to be proud because I'm preaching Sunday, and I decided to use that text because we're doing a series, which is an acrostic from recovery, which, Zach, you appreciate acrostics because your mom was the queen of acrostics.

Tell me what that is. So that's when you take like a word and you like in this case, we're taking the word recovery and then you do eight thoughts that come from the word recovery. They spell out the word recovery. Oh, R-E-C. Right. Like respect. You're going to read. I call that Aretha Franklin. Well, see, that's how Jace can break it down. Yeah, it's good. And so mine is so it's interesting because we did this series before

20 years ago, when we launched our Celebrate Recovery, Mack Owen, who's going to be on the podcast in a few weeks, Mack wanted to start this new thing that he had found out about. And so Mike and I were all in. And so Mike had just went to work for us at the church. And so we did this recovery series. And so I kind of built the program.

Lessons out of the Beatitudes is where the Saddleback does it for celebrate recovery. And so this Sunday, I'm up on the second principle, which is the E. And here's what the principle is. Earnestly believe that God exists, that I matter to him and that he has the power to help me recover. So when they're doing their step studies, that goes along with a couple of the Beatitudes. And so that's my lesson.

And as soon as I read it, it's interesting because I look back at my notes. I'm a very good note taker and keeper. And so in that recovery series that I did 20 years ago, I still have the notes from all the service. And there was some pretty good stuff in there. And the ironic thing was because of my schedule this time, I had the two E's this one and then the E at the end of the series. And there were two lessons that I didn't put together in the first series and had no notes for. You want to guess what they were?

E's? The two E's. And so I had to build something totally new, which is probably a good thing. And so we were in this study, and I thought, man, Ernest would believe that God exists. What better passage is there in the entire Bible of why we believe in Jesus than Colossians 1, 15 through 23? Oh, I agree. What's the other E? Ernest and everybody? Everybody?

I can't remember. If you've already forgotten it, Al, that may be it. Yeah, but that's like six weeks away, Jason. Oh, I see. I got a lot to do before I get home. You're going to come up with a need. See, this is why I stay away from this kind of stuff, you know, because then I got to think of a word that starts with E.

It's there. I just, I can't remember right now what it was. Oh, it has something to do with relationships. It's the, in the, for the celebrate recovery crowd, it's the amends point where you're asking forgiveness for hurting people. Well, what about Colossians one 29? When he says he wants to present everyone fully mature in Christ. This is for everybody. Everybody. It is exactly. There's your, there's your point done.

There you go. So you've already happened, Jay. I will say this, Jay. I'll give you one little sneak peek. So, because I got to think about this. What is the largest Celebrate Recovery meeting that's going on right now? Like in the whole thing? Yep. Jesus in the presence of God? Ooh, that's pretty good. On our behalf? You're close. It's from Luke 15. It's in heaven. Because every time...

a sinner comes to repentance, there is celebration and rejoicing in heaven by thousands and thousands of angels in assembly, according to Hebrews 12 and also Luke 15. So the largest celebrate recovery,

meeting that happens is every time someone comes to repentance because someone has found Christ. It's the chip nights, the biggest chip night, the biggest chip night in eternity. And he happens. I was also reminded of that, that verse that says we are surrounded by,

by a great cloud of witnesses that are cheering us on. Hebrews 12.1. I was thinking of Colossians 1.22, but now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight without blemish and free from accusation. Think Hebrews. He went into the presence of God on our behalf.

to make the presence of God ready for us to live, which is the not yet part of Zach's podcast title. Because they did the same thing in the Jewish temple. They had to do these sacrifices, which goes back to the scapegoat. They actually just put the sins on the goat and they didn't kill him. They just sent him out to the wilderness. He carried the sins away from the camp. And they did it every year.

And so it's a constant reminder that your sin doesn't really go away. It just is still out there. Well, that's the, that's having to be dealt with. It's kind of like the true Halloween. Yeah. You take the sins and the evil, you know, presence and you get it way away from you out in the wilderness. That's right. But all those things, you know, they were all, um,

Think about it. If you live before Christ, then everything was about this coming of something.

But if you live after Christ, which is where we live, then it's about something that came and something that's coming. So the title came out of that framework, but I think it's something not yet now, but it's what we're doing. It's what we talk about every day in this podcast. And there is a tension in that. I recognize that tension. I think that the writer of Colossians, Paul, also recognized that tension there.

But if you get off on one side of that or the other, if you're only about what's to come, then you miss the kingdom that's here. But at the same time, if you're only about the kingdom that's here, then you're missing out on what's to come. And when you go through periods of life that are very, very difficult, which we all do, how do you deal with that? You know what I mean? But I think that's why Jesus came in.

And plants himself at the dead center of all of it. He accomplishes it, but also there's more to come at the end. And so the sin portion of it and the scapegoat portion of it, when he did it,

He did it once and for all. That's what the Hebrew writer says. It is once and for all. You don't have to continue to go back year after year to shed the blood of goats and bulls. All that's coming to it. And by the way, nobody does that anymore either, right? I mean, there's no more temple, no more sacrifice, none of that. That whole system is gone, and it ended there.

In 70 AD, just a few, about 30 years after, 30, 40 years after Christ, or what is that, 37 years after Christ died and was resurrected? Yeah.

And that makes the point that we've been making that some people are waiting around to build another temple to start it all back up again. And we're like, no need. Yeah. It's already. Well, it's, I think it's what happens is if you on this whole, like when you, when you get out of whack on this, it's, it's not that the world is going to hell in a handbasket. So grind it out and wait for the rapture and just cross your fingers. That's not the message of Jesus.

But it's also not, man, boys, this is utopia right here. We're in utopia. It is a tension that you live in, but it is a reality that's here that we get to participate in right now. And I think the caveat to that and what really sets it up for me to understand it is the reason why that's possible is because you have to remove in your mind and your framework, you have to understand that the prize is not a destination.

The prize is not a place that we're going to called heaven. That's not the prize. The prize is not a description of the quantity of how we live, meaning eternal life is not about a quantity of life only. It's more about a quality of life, and it's a life that's in Christ, which is an invitation to participate in the triune nature of God, to partake of his divine life.

nature that that the prize is him the prize is an actual person or three persons i was just gonna say that i've used this illustration many times it's like wherever i go with my wife that's more important than where we're going i mean just the journey we're gonna make the most of it i mean she's my partner my best friend where so it's like and she really lives that out it's like hey you want to take a trip so and she's like yeah but we don't even know where i'm

What we're, what we're doing. She doesn't care. The journey. Yeah. That's a good point. Cause if you go, like, if you, uh, if you think about like a, like, if you go off for a weekend and I was just talking to Jill about this today, about our vacation, we're planning. I was like, honestly, Jill, I said, if we just go and get a house and just go out to eat with the family or not cook meals just to be together. I might, but, but, but think about we'll pay to do that.

But it's the same thing I'm doing here, right? It's just intentional. What's the point of it? It's who you're with. That's a great analogy. Well, and it's also, it captures the thought that we were having in this text that we're kind of wrapping up, Colossians 1, 24 through 2, 5. The reason that the word, Jase, you're contending or struggling, that Paul explained to the Colossian church, who he did not know personally,

But he was invested in heavily to see them succeed for the gospel. And I think that's part of that idea of paying forward what God has done for you to then have it go. Your legacy is I want other people to take that torch and carry it. And, you know, I never thought about legacy as a young guy. But now that I'm about to be 60 years old, last week, this series I was mentioning, I

We started it with two young guys. One of them is Rucker, who you guys have seen on the podcast before. And the other guy is Derek, who had never spoken on Sunday morning at our church before. But they're the two leaders of our Celebrate Recovery. They're the fourth generation leadership. And these are people that we helped lead to Christ, discipled, and now they're taking it. And so when I was watching their sermon this week,

And because they had the R, which is realize that I'm not God, I'm powerless. Who was given the sermon? This was Brian Rucker and Derek McQueen, who are the co-leaders now for Celebrate Recovery. And as part of this series, we're doing something we did 20 years ago. But I was just I felt when I was watching it. I mean, I was just teary because I thought, man.

To get to see guys that you trained get it and get relationship and understand the power of Jesus and what gets you to that moment and watch them. Now, they're going to be doing this series as we go forward. They're going to be the ones that are taking the mantle and going with it. So I wouldn't have appreciated it

you know, 20 years ago, but now that I'm 60 and you start seeing the people you train that take ministry and impact people. And you're like, this is what it's all about. Cause once I cross over, it'll be who's I've impacted with, with the gospel. Oh, by the way, he's a former gang banger from a broken family that, you know, participate in drive by,

shootings and what there's there's that little nugget well i'm just saying he was in a little thing called a gang yeah but i was actually on the podcast but i'm glad you brought this up because one thing i didn't bring up last time when i was talking about that contending is that word is used again in a in a fantastic way i was going to save it for when we get there but now that we brought it up i feel like i should

So, I mean, Paul didn't even know these people. They had learned it from Epaphras. You remember Colossians 1? Yep. In verse 7, he's like, this gospel came to you, and you have faith, hope, and love, and you learned it from Epaphras, our dear fellow servant, who is a faithful minister of Christ on our behalf, and who also told us of your love in the Spirit. Well, when he gets to chapter 4 and verse 12,

He brings up Epaphras again, and he says, Epaphras, who is one of you? Because Paul had trained him, sent him out. He goes to Colossae. He shares the gospel. It explodes. They face resistance like everyone does who puts their faith in Christ. So now they're getting a little wobbly. And he says, but listen to what he says. He said, Epaphras, who is one of you and a servant of Christ Jesus, sends greetings to

He is always wrestling in prayer. Well, you know what that word for wrestling is? Contending. The same one in Colossians 2 when he's speaking of himself, of saying, I'm contending for you. But I thought, what a picture. You know, when you think, it made me analyze my prayer life and realize how weak it is.

Because I never looked at it as a wrestle match. We all got into wrestling, but this is more of a realistic. When you think of wrestling, I mean, this is what me and Willie did as a kid. Well, we wasn't faking. You know what I mean? It was a wrestle. It was about survival. But I thought, what a picture of that when someone is wrestling in prayer for other people. The intensity is off the charts.

But look what he says. He's wrestling in prayer for what reason? He is always wrestling in prayer for you that you may stand firm in the will of God, mature and fully assured, which is what I keep bringing up. A lot of this is about growing in Christ. I mean, you start off a little plant, you're born again.

And it began in your real vulnerable at first because the resistance is coming from the evil one, the evil presence, just circumstances. Uh, cause there are two forces in this world. And, uh, even though we have the King of Kings, it is difficult as you go and go through difficulty and he's asking you to serve and, uh, and, uh, perhaps suffer. And, uh,

The other leg of that is when you're sharing Jesus, you're going to face resistance. And it's no different in our culture than any other. I mean, you're fixed to have people persecute you. It's just going to happen. But that's part of the growth process and the maturity. And, you know, the end of that, think of the parable of the sower. You know, fruit will come from that struggle. But I just thought that that was interesting.

When you start looking, analyzing deep into this book, how these little nuggets on how their passion about each other in Christ and getting them to grow and mature toward the ultimate relationship like Zach described. Well, and I'm glad you brought up prayer again, too, because we keep running into that in all these books we're studying.

And we've talked about it before. It's not because you'll hear people say, well, I wish I could do more, but I will pray. And it's like, well, that's the starting. That's the most important thing, because when you pray, you're communicating with the deity. And that verse in Romans 8 always gets me with that. The Holy Spirit is communicating in language you don't even get, but they communicate.

that the father and the son hear your heart. So there's something that happens there at a supernatural level in prayer. That is a huge impact. Yeah. Just think like when you go work out, I mean, you know, I'll work out occasionally. And when I come out, I don't have to tell Missy that I just worked out. I'm sweaty. I'm exhausted. I'm sucking wind. You know, I'm just like,

But if there's things I want to do in life and I realize the older I get, I got to do it. But if some, if I came out looking like that and she's like, what have you been doing? I was like, I've been praying. Yeah.

you know i think that's the visual image you should get it should be more intense than what we're doing is my point you know and when somebody's doing that for other people that's just very inspiring yeah it is yeah because we want to we want to avoid that pain and want to avoid that that stress that that struggle uh when you were talking though about that i was thinking about something somebody told me last night he's one of my friends here is going through a hard time he's a

lost a bunch of his stuff in the shop during the storm and then just found out his dad got diagnosed with a terminal illness all within like a three week period. And,

He came by the house and there where we were, I was cooking a big jambalaya and I was explaining to them what that was and how good it was going to be. And he was telling me his story. And I just, I mean, let me, let me just pray with you. And I just prayed over him. And one of the things he said, though, he said, you know, I keep thinking about this seed thing.

There's these certain seeds that only germinate in forest fires. And then the fire happens. He said, but these beautiful trees and plants, but they only come forth after an intense fire. And he said, I've just been sitting in that, praying that God germinates something in this fire of my life that's going to be beautiful. And I thought, man, what a...

What a mature way of seeing it. But we want to escape those fires and those storms of life, and we don't want to wrestle because we like the modern convenience that we enjoy and comfort. But I think the kind of prayer you're talking about is a prayer that says, I don't want to go in there, but I'll ask God, if you want me to go through this, sustain me through it, and then give me an imagination for what you're going to do out of it.

No, that's it. That's what's called being all in. So, and unashamed. So we're out of time. We'll, we'll pick it up here next time and get back to our text on. Thanks for listening to the unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes,

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