Ep 988 | Jase Channels His Inner Uncle Si & How to Deal with Church Hurt
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I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. A little different configuration. You never know what's going to happen these days with Unashamed. We're coming in with three windows today, Jace. And Jace looks like he's selling stuff. It looks like Duck Commander met QVC. And Jace is selling, if you're not looking, Jace is selling Tupperware cops in the background.

This is where you want to be watching instead of listening. What happened, Jace? What are you selling over there? Has Willie got you back on the payroll? What are you doing there? No. Well, it's been kind of nostalgic this morning. I end up back where I started, alone in the duck call room. Like after what, five years now? It wasn't more than that. It's me. Well, I don't know. I've lost track. It's me and...

our producer alone in the duck call room. Yeah. And then evidently, which I heard the, uh, you know, sigh, I think resurrected Tupperware for a while, but then I heard it just all went back bankrupt again. And so, uh,

I guess I just can't take no for an answer. He's stacked these cups back here. He did. I'm sure Willie had something to do with this somehow. It's like, yeah, you can use the duck call room for your podcast, but let me set up a display. It's product placement. I started just to...

rip it down but i thought well they are letting letting me use the room again so so uh just so you know dad is uh he's he was getting better and kind of had a little bit of a setback this weekend and so he's uh still under the weather we're trying to get him back up to speed so uh so jace is in the duck car and that's the reason why so keep keep dad in your prayers he's uh

This has been a rough one for him. He's been struggling, but he's itching to get back. Don't overthink it. I'm here because this was 10 minutes from my house instead of driving out to just be alone down at Phil's, which is 45 minutes. So it was nothing major other than save me an hour. This is quite a bit of time. And it wasn't my idea.

Actually, the producer said, why don't we just drive over here and do the podcast instead of driving down the field? Because it also saves her an hour. Exactly. Maddie was like, you know what? Well, it's a little bit of a preview because our plan is at some point to move the operation into town. Out where Dad is, the internet's terrible, and so we have a lot of issues with that. Just to give you some inside baseball. The plan is we're going to have us a new studio at some point. But it won't be in the duck car room.

It won't be in the duck call room. We have to have our own space because there's a lot of echoes. Jase, I'm not sure you want there if we're in the duck call room. Yeah, I've already had two meetings on the way in here, and I'm like, look, I'm just visiting. If you start yelling in a minute, we'll know that the spirit of Psy is inhabiting your body while you're in the duck call room, Jase. Yeah, you know, it's...

I love having Si on our podcast, but when I'm on their podcast, I'm not sure. You know, just organized. I don't know. It's disorganized chaos. That's my take on the dot com. Disorganized chaos. Well, I understand that they throw me out of the bus quite frequently, so that's why I don't watch their podcast. I wouldn't say we're organized, though. I mean, you know, I do know we are a Bible study. I do know that. Sometimes I question it, but...

I was down here at the coffee shop last week and, and this is, I love hearing these stories, by the way, and I'm sitting there drinking coffee with a guy. We were talking about capturing some of the stuff that's happened here in our town on film and,

Just catalog it for who knows what people may want to see later and use it for. And this young girl walks out that I knew because she's been to our church a few times. And she said, hey, Zach, I just got back from kind of interrupt. Yeah, absolutely. She goes, I just got back from Ohio because her car got I think her car may have got destroyed in the hurricane. So she went to for whatever reason. I think maybe she was from Ohio. I don't know the whole backstory, but she is in Ohio purchasing a car.

Goes to the car lot and she's filling out the paperwork with the guy who owns the used car lot. She sees Black Mountain on her form and he said, Black Mountain? I know a guy from Black Mountain. I don't know him, but I listened to a podcast with a guy who one of the hostess from Black Mountain. And she said, really, what's the name of it? And he said, The Unashamed Podcast.

And she said, he said, you know, a guy named Zach Dasher. And she said, I do. He's one of the pastors at my church. And so he begins to tell her that he was not a believer, kind of raised, I guess, like a cultural Christian, but never really had a real faith in Christ. And so I started listening to that podcast and I thought, man, if God can save those guys, he can save anybody. He said he became a Christian, has been watching every episode and studying the Bible with us. I do know we're a Bible study.

So it is disorganized, though, Jay. So I don't think we got the corner on organization. Well, we're more organized than the duck car room, but you're right. That's a low bar. That makes me feel good. I mean, it's good to have that comparison. Do you know, Zach, did Nikki ever come and visit you guys? She's a waitress at the Black Mountain Bistro.

You know, sure. She did or not. Yeah. We met her when we were there. Yeah. Right before the storm, we were having lunch with Gordon and Ann and she was our waitress and she was a sweet, sweet girl. And when Gordon wound up inviting her to your church. But then, of course, the hurricane hit. Yeah, it's been a while. It's been a while. A few. I was just curious. A few four weeks. She said she was going to listen.

So is that, I mean, Jace, do you feel like you're isolated there? Can you tell us any stories if you've been? Well, I have lone wolf tendencies, so it has come full circle.

That's what dad calls Jay's. Is it a PTSD moment? Is it nostalgic? Is it good? What's the emotional feeling? I don't mind it. I guess the Lord has grown me from where I once was. I realize that it's not good to be alone. I mean, that's what I said, Genesis 2. Yeah, that's early. And I remember thinking when I first read that, thinking, but I sure don't mind it.

I mean, but I'm going to need to work on that. I mean, when you think about how we're characterized, because the Holy Spirit via these writers makes an emphasis on being a part of we rise together to become a dwelling place of God. We're the body of Christ. We're the kingdom of heaven on earth. So you got to get past that.

Well, you know, it's funny because it's like Jesus to me, like our studies of the Gospels, he was very comfortable being by himself. I mean, like he withdrew quite a bit.

But he obviously understood community, not only being God, you know, and a part of the deity, but, you know, putting his little ragtag group together and then speaking to crowds. But there is something therapeutic maybe about the idea of withdrawing and having some alone time. So I think that, I mean, I think Jesus showed us that by his way he operated, you know, on his three-year ministry tour.

Yeah, I think in your own faith as you grow, you have these moments, you know, whether it's right before you go to sleep or, you know, where you're having these God conversations that are not audible. But I do that a lot just driving down the road. Yeah. You know, I'm literally having a conversation with the Lord. But I think those are all good things. But

I mean, God wanted us to be part of a community. And you get that passion about that. I find myself constantly at young people gatherings. Most of the time I'm speaking, but I like the energy because I don't want to be the old fuddy-dud, you know. And really, I mean, who is that that said the greatest blindness in life is...

Not recognizing your own blindness, which I forgot who said that, but I heard that one time and thought, you know, I don't want to be one of these thick-skulled Christians who has lost the ability to be open-minded. You know, I might be missing something. Well, it just takes away, too, our human tendency to be selfish.

And only serve ourselves. And so when you're in a community situation, you're constantly thinking about serving other people. And that's a positive. That's a good thing. I mean, that's exactly what Jesus came here for, is that purpose. So I think that's another reason why you need community. We talked about it a lot on the podcast. We appreciate the audience.

and our ability to impact you with the word of God, but you need community where you are because you got to, you got to take that and you got to be able to put that into practice. This is the kind of the salt and light concept. So you don't want to keep it to yourself. No, that's why somebody, you know, I know we get asked to baptize people a lot and always my, my first instinct is I'd love to push that into a local community. You know, you're not involved in a local church, find a local church that's grace filled and,

gospel centered and kingdom focused that, that you can plug into. And, um, but you, cause you need that. You need the people in your life that know you and that walk with you, you know, on a daily basis that, you know, when you're, when something's off and you, cause you know, like when you're in a, when you're in a relationship, when you're in a family, when you're in a unit,

with other people and something's off, you kind of know it, you kind of feel it. It's kind of like a, you just kind of know it because you're there. And I think we need that. I need that. I need that in my marriage. I need that in my relationship with my kids. I need that in relationship with my church family, my friends. Like that's, that's, that's meaningful. I think that's why God gave us the church.

or one of the reasons why I got papers in charge. I think the problem is though, uh, you know, the last session I had with, with a couple, which was just a couple of days ago and they were just having some physical difficulties. And, uh,

But the conversation came up. It was like they'd been involved in different churches and just had bad experiences. And so I could just tell, which I really didn't know this about them until we were talking. And they were there. I was like, well, you're here. We were just having supper and having prayer together over medical procedures that were coming up. But it was weird having this conversation about

Where I could tell, I was thinking, well, you need a... It kind of hit me. The reason they were there is because they're not plugged into a church. And I get it. The more we talked, I could tell there was a lot of damage and baggage from organized religion. And almost...

like a disdain for that. But I remember that in my own growth process going through that. I mean, that's the problem with churches is that they're filled with flawed people. And you have these bad experiences, especially, you know, from leadership. All of a sudden you think these people are leading the church and they're rocks and then comes out, you know, one of them has an affair with somebody just like so graphic a behavior. You're like, this whole place is a dumpster fire.

And so then you move on and it seems to be a cycle that people are just trying to find this perfect fit. But sometimes that becomes the problem in that you're, cause you're never really going to find that cause it's flawed people. And you just have to kind of fit in and realize that everyone's going through the grace process and nobody is above falling.

You don't fix your eyes on Jesus or just get into religion overall, whether you're a leader or not. You look up and these things happen. Which, and to your point, Jay, if you think about it, when we study the New Testament, you're looking at a 30-year, 30- to 40-year spam.

of time from when the whole thing started. But look, when you get into those later letters, especially by Peter and Paul, you know, before they crossed over, that's why they warn so much about it. So it's not like this is a new phenomenon. It's been around since the church began 2000 years ago. Yeah. The whole purpose of this letter we're reading. I mean, they're in Christ, they came to Christ, but you know, there was a lot of,

Cultural pressures. I mean, you can imagine their country is being led by an occupied Rome. Yeah. And then you have all the religious arguments that are going on from Judaism to all this kind of mystical knowledge. They had just had an earthquake. Most scholars believe when this was written. Yeah. I mean, so their whole I mean, they were questioning whether the whole earth is going to implode or what. I mean, that's a devastating thing to undergo.

And so you see, it's kind of a basis of a get back to Jesus. Remember, there's a growth process and stay away from all these other kind of doctrines that are not centered on Jesus. Well, that's what's going on in Colossians. I mean...

You think about what they were doing. They were taking good things, but maybe it had been good in and of themselves, but they were isolating them away from Christ and they were missing the bigger picture of what it was. And I think that when we, you mentioned the whole, I don't think you used the term church hurt, but I mean, that's a common theme in particular, particularly 2024.

We've been talking about church hurt for the last three or four years, and everybody's kind of experienced it. Everybody's felt it. Everybody knows what it is. And it kind of coincides with another term that people use a lot called deconstruction. So there's a movement to deconstruct the Christian faith. And a lot of that comes out of our experience with the church, where we've been hurt by leadership particularly. And so we see all that. And if we could go down the list,

over the last two to three years of all of the people that we probably had on a pedestal that then we saw their falling. And it is, I will say that there is something to that that is devastating to us. And it's very sad. But I always said this when we had the college ministry that we were leading in Louisiana. And I say it now at our current church is that we can't worship the group.

We can't worship the church. We can't worship the body. Yes, God gave us this, and it's not guaranteed that it'll be healthy, but when it is healthy, we're very, very, very grateful for that.

But the language of what Paul says in Colossians is he doesn't say that the mystery that's made known is an incredible community. That's a byproduct. The community of believers, which is supposed to be life-giving, I will say that, and when it's not, it's sad and it hurts and we need to deal with that.

But it's not the ultimate prize and it's not the ultimate goal and it's not the ultimate mission. That's a byproduct of the ultimate mission, the ultimate goal, which is the mystery, which Paul says in verse 27. He said, God made known how great among the Gentile are the riches of

of the glory of this mystery. So whatever this mystery is, it is full of riches. This is what he says it is. He said, which is Christ in you, Christ in you, not the church in you. The church is important and vital and essential and can be extremely life-giving. But the real point of the church is to point us

to the riches of the glory of the mystery, which is that Christ actually lives in us. So then you see it coming all back to where we started. It all comes back to the centrality of who Jesus is and then how we can now participate in his life through his dwelling and living in us.

Jace, you know, any time of year, you know, you're always, finances are always a little bit tight. Inflation's up right now. So people are trying to mind their P's and Q's, as they say. And we're always looking for ways to help us a little bit, save a little money. Yeah, we have a relatively new sponsor, Upside, which has an app. And

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And being a church leader myself, I think part of the misunderstanding I had for most of my early years in ministry is that I worked for the church. I really didn't. I was working for the Almighty. The church was just where I was doing what he needed me to do. But a lot of church leaders, including me, don't realize that. So you tend to wind up

being a people pleaser and being directed to please the folks instead of please the almighty and so that puts you on a bad path so my advice to any young pastors out there listening get first getting into ministry just remember you work for the almighty the church is just the place in which you're working but that can all change in an instant that's why it gets hard when you work for the church i mean my dad was a pastor um

when I was growing up, pretty much most of my life. Well, I mean, he was always a pastor, but he was a full-time paid minister of the gospel at churches until the sixth grade.

And he was fired. Actually, you know my dad's been fired twice from preaching. Did you know that? I'm surprised it wasn't more. Just knowing Gordon as well as I do. The first time he got fired. I'm surprised it wasn't six. Yeah, it should have been more. The first time was we were in a little small church in North Florida, and he had this big

I think he'd learned it from White Street Road. They painted a bus pink. Did that start at White Street Road? I don't know if it started with us. I rode in one. But we definitely realized that that was the color that stood out the most in the community. Someone had done a study. Because you think yellow school bus for school. So it was like, what will draw attention to buses? And somebody said pink. And so we had a fleet of

of pink buses back in the seventies. Jason and I were on the pink, but was it called the pink bus ministry? Yeah. So it was called. Yeah. So they brought that down to Florida, rural Florida and right outside of Jacksonville, Baker County. If you're from Baker County, hello, I grew up, I'm old stomping grounds, but they brought this little girl to church. Her name was Daisy. And then,

Then that turned into like 40, 50 kids from kind of the wrong side of the tracks that my mom would teach Bible class to. My mom used to love to teach and teach God's word to kids. So at first it was great, but then when it got to be like outnumbered the church, they ran him off, literally fired him. So then we came back to Louisiana and did that whole thing. Then went back to Gainesville, Florida, where he worked for a church in Gainesville.

and got fired. And really, honestly, got fired for just understanding the grace of God in a time when that wasn't kosher in our particular movement. But I remember how difficult that was, even in sixth grade, and watching my parents go through that and us going through it as a family. Because the problem was your livelihood, you're paid by the church, so your livelihood is

Your faith and all your relationships and friendships when you work for the church, it's all tied up in the same thing. And so when that is removed, it's it's it could be it was pretty traumatic as a kid. So we I grew up actually. And I remember those days probably better than I do. But my dad wouldn't step foot inside of an institutional church for probably decades.

I was in high school later on, late high school. But I mean, for five, five, five, six years, seven years, there was no you didn't go to you didn't go to an institutional church. We met in homes and he was anti institution. So the pain of that can be real. I think it's hard coming out of that. But again, it goes back to the point I made earlier. You got to keep Christ at the central part of it and and not put your hope in people.

Well, and like you said, mainly because you don't want that to then the evil one, he works through all systems. And so, I mean, how much damage does he do even through something that, that Christ left as a legacy for us. Yeah. But when that can move people away from faith, that's a bad, that's a bad call. I remember me and Phil studying with a guy one time and he was like, I mean, cause back in the day, I think we were earlier in the faith.

And our family loves to argue. I mean, I literally love it. And the Lord is- You said loved to argue, but then you said, I love it. So you still kind of like it? I loved it. Well, being married to my lovely wife who doesn't like to argue, I finally realized, you know, she just doesn't like to argue and I love it. So I've realized that people are different. And so, but to get back to my story,

I remember this. We were just hammering whatever we were arguing about. And finally the guys, because he worked for a church and he said, finally, he just blurted out because we kind of had the double barrel going. He's like, you don't realize if I, if I believe what y'all believe, they'll fire me. I was like, so what? But yeah,

You know, I realized he just was like, you know, when you're sitting there thinking your livelihood's on the line, he's like, if I preach this, I'm going to be fired. Which is, you know, when you told that story about Gordon, which I mean, it kind of made me feel sorry for him because he wasn't fired for, you know, behavior or breaking the moral code or some scandal. He just was teaching something that they didn't.

Didn't believe there. And, you know, especially when you start talking about grace, it reminds me of that story in John nine, you know, where the guy's healed. I mean, he's born blind and Jesus has this argument with religious people who start running an investigation and it's just so hard to read.

Because they're just like, no, this can't be true. You couldn't have been healed. He couldn't have had anything to do with God because no religious person would have healed this guy on the Sabbath. Yeah. And what gets lost in the whole thing is the celebration that this guy was born blind and he's been healed. Yeah.

They missed the big deal. And then like on the backside of the story, it's like, well, this guy was doomed from the start. He was born into sin or he wouldn't have been blind. So it's like all these things that were anti-God were coming from religious people. That's why you want to be open-minded. That's why I said I think the most important thing about your journey of being like Jesus, you need to stay open-minded.

And don't be one of those people who are literally arguing with Jesus face to face. You didn't see Jesus. I mean, his message was a progressive message in the sense that it was, he didn't seem to be trying to hold on to something old. He was bringing something new. You know, it wasn't like, well, we got to protect, got to protect the system, got to protect the thing, got to protect the tradition. It was nowhere. I'm bringing new wine today.

And pouring it in, I can't pour it into old wineskins or they'll burst. And I think what Jesus brought, and you see it in his teachings and his life that he lived, it was contagious. It was vibrant. It was life-giving. And I think about my dad's story, which I love when he used to tell this. He hadn't told it in years, but he would tell me coming out of that.

I remember like vividly having many, many conversations with my dad asking him about what happened at Crossroads at the church in Gainesville. And he would say that he was out there doing his quiet time. And we lived out kind of on the edge of Gainesville, Florida in the woods. And we lived on some acreage. And he said, I'd go out every morning and I would sit by a tree and I'd just read, I'd read the word and just him saying,

And the Bible and just sitting in the word and meditating on the word, which we don't do enough of. And he would do that. And he said that through reading the Bible, even though he had a degree, a seminary degree and all that, he said, I'd never understood the grace of God. And it hit me like a freight train that God is the one who pays for his church, not us and our effort. And it was so liberating for him that he would wake up in the middle of the night

for, for months and just be like, this is too good to be true. How, like, how is this true? It was, and if you, you know, if you came out of a very legalistic movement, you know how liberating that would be to know, to, to, to finally realize that it is the finished work of Christ that, that justifies you, not your own, um, ability to, to, to build this up in yourself. And, and so he, he couldn't help, but, but preach it and teach it. And I love that because that's the vision I see in scripture. When people understand this King that we serve, um,

it doesn't conjure up in us an obligation, a begrudging obligation to go tell a guy. Now we gotta go tell people about him. It's quite the opposite. It's how can I not? How can I not share this good news? - Yeah, and what you just described, Zach, was Jobe Martin, we had on the podcast, his book, "The Grace Train." Remember, his whole premise was it's so powerful when it hits you, there's nothing you can do but grab and go.

Zach, you got the gold backs there to show folks from Alpine Gold Exchange? Yeah, boys, let me tell you something. Next time I'm with you guys, let's just say dinner's on me. Yeah, I keep hearing that, Jase. Dinner's on me, boys. This reminds me of a scene in Outlaw Josie Wells where a young man who wasn't in good health said, I got the gold right here. So what we're talking about is the gold back, which is the world's first physical interchangeable gold money.

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dealt mostly with the 115 through 23. But I want to just give a little bit of review. And then there were a couple of things at the end that we didn't talk about that I want to get your take on. But it was, we talked about it being like a song, which is what most scholars think this was interjected right here in this letter. And if it was a song, then the way you put it, Jason, the last podcast or one of the last podcasts was really good. Jesus, their creator, uh,

15 through 17 and then the recreator uh 18 through 23 which I thought was was a good way to simply break that down because you see him in both ways one and it relates to what we see in the revelation of the universe and what we see around us and the others what we see in ourselves which is which is very powerful in fact he talked about creating things visible and invisible

And I wanted to get this in the last conversation, but I never got it in. There's a Louis Giglio video where he talks about laminin, you know, which kind of became Missy's thing on her jewelry. But it's so powerful because what Louis does and Gary Stevenson does the same thing when he used to be at WFR, he did a presentation that was really powerful, is the bigness of God. You know, when you look through a telescope, you know,

You see the power of God because you see out and you see how big everything is. But when you look at a microscope, you see the same thing because how tiny design is and how things work. And so whether you're looking through a telescope or a microscope, both you see the power of God in Revelation, which is really powerful. What's crazy about that, though, is my wife's done many ministries like that, that laminin

Which, you know, I tied it in with kind of the DNA code to your point. It's a really good point. You look at just creation itself and you're wowed. You're like, well, somebody had to have built this. But then when you look in the details, the most sophisticated code in the history of codes is in our body. Yeah. And, you know, if your DNA is found at a crime site, you're in trouble. I mean, we trust this more than anything.

And so it just, as a believer, you're like, who wrote the code? I mean, it's how they found out. That's how they found your sister. Yeah. I mean, like, and not, and they didn't even have, it's so it's, the code is so legit that they didn't even have Phil's code.

or any of our grandparents, but enough people have submitted their DNA code to the website that they were able to match. Piece it together. I mean, the complexity of that and the uniqueness of that is incredible that she was able to link through the coding system of one, the 23andMe, I think was the one she used, and then the genetic code that she had traced her lineage down. I'm related to...

Oh, it's crazy. Which it goes back to that, you know, Acts 17 when Paul was preaching and he was explaining the unknown God and he just makes these profound statements where you can see how kind of his ministry and his message is

changing a little bit based on the audience. And he starts saying, look, this, he goes back to creation itself. You know, that, that famous verse that says from one man, he made all nations of men, which we all look around and think, well, how'd he do that? And Paul's just saying, well, he did. And he determined the exact times for you and the exact places where, where you should live. He gives you life, breath and everything else.

So by doing this, this ministry to go back to that lemon and somewhere in that code, one of the, uh, through a microscope, you know, part of our code that's running through our body. When you look at the cells configurated it, it is in the shape of a cross. Yeah. And, uh, of course he got that from the medical world and man, it does make you pause and think, huh? The very thing that's holding everything together in my body, uh,

which, you know, you're like, what came first, his knowledge of Jesus, so you're looking for the cross and everything? But no matter, you know, we believe that all people are gifts from God, which is why we fight so hard to, you know, protect the innocent. But so she does that ministry, and in that, one of the women that came through there that eventually would die

not stay with the program and we lose sight of, you know, would have a baby and, and be incarcerated. And then we got involved. And so here's this little boy that has come into our life. And to get back to our, where we were talking about before during this process of us, just having the motivation of loving this mom and,

putting Jesus into our life, loving this boy, glad that he's here. A lot of programs and a lot of people along the way I've kind of butted heads with because people would question my motivation for helping. And, you know, I kind of realized from the outside looking in, people thought that we wanted to adopt this boy or, you know, they were trying to figure out why would they be doing this? And there was no motivation other than,

This is a human being. We love people. And I just found that fascinating that I've had more arguments with religious people during the process than I have anybody in the world because people had a hard time realizing that it was just love of people and a love of God that were involved in this. And there's a lot of sacrifice going on. They're like, why are you doing this?

which is, uh, it's, it's kind of been shocking, but my biggest motivation for telling this story is that, you know, this little boy, who's just a toddler, it just made me think, well, he could be the next Paul modern day, Paul, or, you know, the next, he could be a president one day, all these things go through your mind. And, uh, really what I settled on is that

this message that we're talking about in Colossians is that Christ in you, I thought everybody is valuable and important and can change the world when Christ is in them. And that's just kind of been my mantra. I feel like he's the next person that I have close proximity to that Christ could be formed in. And when that happens, you know, you look back at what happened to my dad. I mean, would you have ever thought

how many people have come to the Lord through that. I mean, I just think that's the way we should look, that all people are valuable. And when Christ is formed in them, this is our goal. Whether it's meeting them and sharing Jesus with them when they're adult, or whether it's taking a really bad situation and moving in as Christ would and doing all you can through love.

And it's not just Christianese language either when we say Christ in you. I mean, it wasn't scripture, but like, what does that mean tangibly? I've really pondered that question. What does that mean? We'll say Christ moves in us, lives in us, or even for the Holy Spirit to dwell in us. I remember when I was a kid and my mom would talk about, you know,

when the Holy Spirit comes to live inside you, I was like, what does that feel like? I always ask her as a kid, is that like an electric shock that you get? Is there like a moment that you feel it? And I think that we're trying to understand what that means. And we want to reduce it to like a moment when really it's much more of a relational idea. Like I was thinking about this couple that we know

who they always invite us over to dinner and they make the best. She's Brazilian. And, uh, and so they have like this Brazilian meat fest. Every time we go over there, it's like crazy. I mean, it's like tri-tip steak, ribeyes, but they've cooked more meat than you could ever possibly eat.

But the whole experience of the evening with them, it's always like he cooks the meat. She cuts it up. She marinades it. She does all the sides. But it's like this joint venture between the two of them that in their home, it actually creates like a spirit of their family is the kings. They're friends of ours. And so...

So let's go to the King's house. I don't say let's go to Brooke's house or let's go to Jayla's house. I say, let's go to the King's house. And the reason why I say that is because that's how I see them. There's a spirit to their home. There's a oneness there. Yeah, there's different people, but it's what they do together that is so special. The meal that they prepare and how they prepare and the stories that they tell, the way they even eat. You know, most people sit down and eat for a meal. They don't do that.

It's literally a three hours of just meat coming off the grill, things coming out of the oven. It's you just sit there and eat. It's really it gets fun. But I mean, it's a three hour ordeal and a cultural experience. And I think that with Christ being in you, that's what it is. It's a it's a mingling of of of us with Christ. And over time, what happens is, is we begin to smell like him and take on his aroma and it takes on kind of its own flavor.

its own personality, so to speak, that we change and become like him. And from that, you experience a great meal. You experience life. You experience joy, peace, all the fruits of the Spirit. What you just described, Zach, was 1 Corinthians 1 and 2.

It's exactly Paul's point to the Corinthians was that because of Christ, we are individually, you know, indwelled by the spirit. But when you put that together in community, you create something even greater.

And that was his description in the first century. And it's still true today. And I love that because what you described, too, was part of their culture. The idea of the Brazilian steakhouse, we've all been to those before, is they're trying to create that same idea.

even in a restaurant it's that idea that just it's overwhelming almost in the in the way that they do that but you put love of christ in people and it it's an amazing experience i love that i love the picture and it creates these little like inside jokes and stories and metaphors and things that we like that shape cultures you know like like at their house for example it's hilarious every time he brings in the food

And it's always delicious, but she'll like cut it up. Every time I've been over there, she'll take a bite of it. She's like, oh, this isn't any good.

It's kind of like this. No, it's amazing. But she says that and we all laugh, but it's like, but her thing is she can never say it. But it's just part of like the experience, right? And so you see that even in like your cultures of your church, when churches are filled with people who are living by the spirit and living out this truth that Christ is in them, it creates a life of its own. And like, I'll be in the church. You can put me in the middle of a church with the best worship in the world. If I don't know anybody's story or know anything about these people,

I mean, I'll enjoy it, but it's not the same as sitting in a room with, you know, 25 people and you know, their stories and you see, you know, Andy over there, you know what he came through and Andy's weeping and crying before the Lord, you know, or, or, or, you know, you know, the story behind that. I like Marty at our church. I know Marty story and how she came out of prostitution in Costa Rica and, and, and,

and was completely transformed and redeemed by Christ, never thinking that she was going to be worthy to have a man love her. And then only to find Gary, who had his own issues with drug addiction and alcohol addiction, who they met at the perfect time in Costa Rica, found each other and are now married and serving Christ at the children's home and all over the country. They travel in their RVs. I know their story. So when I see Gary or Madi weep in worship,

I weep because I'm connected. There's a spirit that's created because of our life in Christ, a spirit that comes out of that that we experience together. I love it. I love it. You're right. And that's the power of testimony in Christ is Christ's testimony lived out in people.

No, we kind of hijacked where you were in the overview. So, yeah. So so here was my outline. It just kind of serve as a way for us to go back. And we've been talking about it for a few podcasts is you had this heavenly dominion. Jesus is completed glory. He's a creative force. He is an eternal being.

which was just that one statement alone is so powerful. The I am idea. I am the Alpha Omega. He is a sustaining force because he sustains all things. So you see that kind of from the heavenly perspective. And then you move into the earthly dominion, which is Jason was talking about the recreation. He's the head of the body.

He's the hope of the body. And then he combines both realms for us and he delivers us. And that's a past deliverance from our past. A present deliverance is ongoing. And it's also a future deliverance as well. And that's what I want to ask you about you guys, because we hadn't really touched on this, but it's really interesting when he gets to the end of this amazing song, he uses a word here that, uh,

you know, is a powerful word for us because it's the word if in verse 23. So all these great things that Christ has done, both in the heavenly realms and the earthly realms and for us. And then he says, if, so now he's addressing the people, the Corinthian, I mean, the Colossian church and now us, if you continue in your faith established and firm, not move from the hope held out in the gospel,

This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven and of which I, Paul, have become a servant. So that last turn of phrase is pretty powerful. It's not that it makes it conditional necessarily because it's based in Christ, but we do play a role in response. And he does put that in there, which I thought was pretty powerful. If you continue in your faith, which to me kind of speaks to battling God.

The idea that we're always involved in a battle, right? If you establish, and that kind of speaks to me for leaving a legacy, because if you want to establish something, that means it goes on beyond you. If you hold firm, that's how you respond to situations, trials, temptations, whatever. If you don't move from hope, which means we have to trust, and then if you stayed centered on the gospel, you have to have a foundational core, right?

who you are and what you believe in. And that carries you through whatever comes your way because life happens, right? So I don't know. It's just I thought it was interesting that such a great thing is then put into our court. How are you going to respond to this? Yeah, I think what helped me when I was reading this, because it is hard to wrap your head around when I read that, it's like he then goes on the next section in 24.5.

through 29 and kind of explains his own personal struggle with this idea. It's kind of a labor of love is what I call it, Jase, because he loves it, but it's hard. It's not easy. Well, when I kind of read it from the end backwards, it kind of helped me because when he says in verse 29, to this end, I labor struggling with all, and then he changes it

to his energy, which so powerfully works in me. And so he's grasping this idea that, I mean, it's kind of like, I don't need to screw this up. I have this awesome power from this song. You know, I've surrendered to the Lord. And you can tell there's a struggle here. And I believe it's because he's trying to encourage these new Christians to

not to be discouraged, and they need to grow. Because I think the overall theme is they're meeting resistance. And so if you just back up from where I read when he first, which will be our next paragraph where it says in 24, he says, now I rejoice in what was suffered for you. Well, all of a sudden we bring up this word suffering. Nobody likes to suffer because he had met resistance of trying to help them.

which is part of growth. And I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ's affliction. So he's kind of now making this segue of what he's trying to do. He realized that Jesus had resistance the whole time he was doing his ministry. It was just one from whether it was the

evil one or whether it was religious people or whether it was leaders or he was just meeting resistance, meeting resistance, meeting resistance. On a daily basis. Well, and ultimately the main resistance...

And divinely, I almost said ironically, but it wasn't ironic. It was divine. The main resistance was we'll just kill the guy, which actually then becomes the vehicle to which life emerges for all of us. That's kind of pretty beautiful how God takes that resistance and says, yeah, I actually welcome that resistance in. And the worst resistance that you can possibly imagine, I'm going to defeat that. I'm going to defeat that one. I'm just going to go ahead and defeat it.

Well, to my point and to Paul's point, he's like, I rejoice in what was suffered and I fill up my in my flesh. What is still lacking in regard to Christ afflictions for the sake of his body, which is the church, which is a totally different picture than what we think of in our modern churches. Most modern churches in America. The problem is not that they're suffering for the cause of crisis, that they're real comfortable.

And nobody, you know, the reason your dad was fired, my uncle, is because he was making people uncomfortable by...

doing things that really Jesus would do, going across the bad side of town and trying to share Jesus with people. And there's all this immaturity when people are coming to Christ. And look, I went through the same thing. It's like, because when you bring in the world and they come to Christ, they don't know the rules of

what we're supposed to do on a Sunday morning. And I was constantly, they're not very well behaved. No, I was constantly being pulled aside by church leadership saying, look, some of these people you're bringing in here, they're not dressing appropriately. And I'm like, yeah, thank what gave it away. I was like, well, they just came out of the world or they're like talking when the preacher's talking or they're yelling out.

in cries of worship or distress or, you know, I was like, yeah, let me tell you this. I would watch the contribution. I would have an armed guard because these people are coming out when they see a plate of money come by them, they're thinking, oh,

Ooh, there's opportunity. Well, somebody did rob the church one time. Oh, it's happened multiple times. More than one. Somebody fell through the roof one time, I remember. Yeah, I'm sure it was part of the crew that we were bringing in. Oh, yeah. But Jace, to your point, there was a time, one of the most discouraging times when I was in full-time ministry was

We had been out at Camp Cheoka and it was high school week and we baptized 26 young people that their lives had changed. It's just an incredible week. It was a mountaintop moment. And we come back in that next Monday and we have a meeting. One of our leaders had called a meeting and came in and just railed us for how immodest the kids were dressed during camp week.

You know, and we were just coming off this amazing time of the gospel being shared. And these people came there not knowing who Jesus was. And yet this this particular leader, all he could focus on was that they were immodest. And I just remember walking out of there being so deflated because I was like, man, what are we doing this for? I mean, do they have to come in somehow looking like we expect them to look or are we sharing Jesus here?

And it was just, I'll never forget the feeling. And then I realized what we talked about. You can't trust in leaders. You got to trust in Christ. It's funny because people say they, I've heard people say they believe in sola, the sola fide, faith alone or grace alone. But then you also attach all this other stuff to it. Like all the sophisticated theology they got to have and they got all this stuff right. And I'm like, do we really believe that? What do I have to know

In order to come to Christ. I mean, what theology do I have to have squared away and set up straight? What doctrinal beliefs? Because I grew up like that. You got to have all this doctrinal stuff right before you come to Christ. I'm just like, well, man, who? I'm still trying to figure out stuff. I've been a Christian for 30 years, and I would say I'm a serious student of the word. And there's a lot. The deeper I get into it.

I'm like, man, I don't know. But I do know that Christ is supreme and that I don't have a chance without his mercy. And I think that that's it's that faith that lives a mustard seed that they can move a mountain. Well, I wanted to set this up. I know we're out of time, but there's kind of three things he says in this next section that I wanted to get into on the next podcast. He said he's suffering.

you know, for the kingdom. And then he says he's serving. He said, I have become its servant in verse 25. And all he's saying is to until Christ is realized in you, I'm serving other people so that can happen. And then he makes this wonderful statement about

presenting everyone mature in Christ. And that's in verse 28. But he then says to this, in our labor and our struggle, and he talks about the struggle being that he is proclaiming Jesus in verse 28, which I love that statement. We proclaim him.

admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom so i think that's kind of the backdrop of his personal perspective that's causing the discomfort is that he's here to suffer

And he's here to serve and he's here to proclaim Jesus and struggle with that. And there's two things going to happen. It's going to help you mature in Christ when you're doing that, but it's also going to be met with resistance. And I just think that's how we're supposed to function as the church and not just

gather up every Sunday and make everyone comfortable. So look at Jace going back to his training, got a little alliteration there, three S's for our next podcast. I love it. I love it. But I didn't come up with the S's. They were actually in the verses. Well, of course they are. That's why you just got a highlight. That's what a good preacher does. All right. We'll get into this next time on the show. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed Podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes.

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