Ep 985 | Crowder Is the Twin Jase Wishes He Had & Learning to Surf from Eddie Vedder
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I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. As you, if you're watching, you can see that we have three boxes today. We have Zach in North Carolina. We have Al in the Southern Lair. I'm still in the old house. I hadn't made the transition. And then we got Solo Jace, which...

I think is this a first? This the first time we've ever had just Jace in the lair? Yeah. Phil's still down, but he's recuperating. He's getting better. He had the procedure. And we're hoping, we've got our fingers crossed, that maybe on the next podcast there will be a Phil sighting, a proof of life sighting.

Phil appearance as well. You made sure he's not on any pain pills or mind offering substances. I'm not confirmed. It's a gamble either way. It's a gamble. I do know that he has ascribed to quit saying, give me a break after his third back break. He's like, I'm going to quit saying that. He was serious.

Give me a break. Okay, here's three of them. Here's three of them. Here's four vertebrae. Well, if you keep saying that, Phil, this may continue to happen. And also, he probably needs to quit saying for crying out loud because he's probably done a lot of that as well. Well, he was as close to crying recently as I've ever seen him. He was hurting so bad. So Jay's our sister. I guess it takes a sister.

to think of things in a different way. Cause you know, the four of us grew up and I told dad this recently, I'm like, dad, I'm trying to be like super compassionate about your situation. Cause obviously, you know, I feel bad that you feel so bad. I said, but I have to admit, I'm just going to be honest. It's hard for me to do it. And it's your fault.

Like, because you raised me the way you did, I just have so little compassion and I have to fight through it. And so our sister, Phyllis, decided that we need to start bringing some food out to mom and dad because dad's been cooking a lot because mom's been down too. And so all of a sudden when the call went out, one thing we do is we do a lot of cooking. So now we've taken so much food out. Wow.

Well, I can't even get the fridge open. You know, Willie brought out a slum gullion. Jason, Missy bringing food. I was bringing food. He said, I got food everywhere. He said, but I will say one thing. You boys can cook. What did Willie bring? Slum gullion. Slum gullion. That means there's no name for what Willie cooks. He likes to take various ingredients. Well, that's what Phil said.

I don't even know if that actually is a word. It is a word. We have a producer replacement, if you can see, because our regular producer, Maddie, is sick, because I called her saying I was going to be late because I was bringing food to Phil. She sounds like Darth Vader. She went, hello. And I said...

It just sounded so weird. Because she's got the little, she's got a nice little melody-like voice, you know, when she talks, she's got the high bounce. I said, is our guest there yet? Because we have a guest today. So I won't be solo for long, Al. I know it. I'm excited about it. And she said, I'm sick.

But, uh, so anyway, I said, well, I'm bringing a feeling case and food. And look, I had no place to put it. Kay was down there and Phil wasn't there. So I thought Phil is going to do the podcast today. Cause I said, where's Phil? And she said, I have no idea. I was like, there's no other, there's no, it's not like when you get down to where they're at, there's nothing to go do. So if he's not there and he's not in the yard and he's not at the land,

I thought, well, he's at the podcast. But I found out he's at the doctor. So I guess it was scheduled. I don't know. Yeah, he's been missing. He's in a business. He told me that. He's like, man, I'm looking at this slum gullion. And if that's what he's been eating, that does not look good. Well, Phil dubbed it that because it's just you throw a bunch of ingredients. But I'll have to say Willie's pretty good about it. Yeah.

They're usually good. I have eaten a couple things that I thought, I think this would have been better if it was separate and apart. Because I don't like casserole. Like the contribution. Yeah, like Flamgoyen I'll do because they're kind of authentic Louisiana cuisine, like gumbos and...

Is it a Cajun dish? It's more of a genre, Zach. It's like you just take everything and you keep adding stuff into it. Kind of like a jambalaya. Yeah, jambalaya is a good reference. Well, with pasta instead of rice. But yeah, Willie made a dish one time he called it, I mean, hilariously called it an ode to pork. And?

And it literally is every form of pork that you can imagine. Bacon, pork tenderloin, sausage, ground sausage. And then cream cheese. It's got some cheese in it. You're kind of going Bubba Gump here on us. Well, look, so it's interesting. We brought this up. I didn't know we were going to go here today. So last night we had our first kind of official dinner party.

at our new house. We had some of our friends from down here over. So we had like 10 people. And so we cooked, we decided to do like some favorites because everybody down here has a different favorite from Lisa. So we cooked some pork chops and mashed taters and, you know, just good country food. And we did white beans.

So I felt like I was tapping into my inner Willie on my white beans because I was heating up my sausage. I cook them in the oven before I add them to the beans. And so I thought, you know what would be good with this is some bacon. And so then I took about six pieces of bacon and I just crisped it all at the same time. And I said, you know what?

but also be good as some ham. So I'm digging around. I find some ham. So like, I just kept adding to it. So by the time I got through, Lisa said, is this beans or is this meat? I said, yes. Yes. Man, after my own heart, I would have added the, I'll tell you what makes the, this is something by the way, y'all, this is, you'll agree with this. He didn't agree on the cheese thing on the burger.

Didn't agree. That's an understatement. You literally, I was really interested and I thought, oh, my son's got some competition. And then I thought, nope, it's fake news. Well, if you're going to do beans though, you have to, in my opinion, or collard greens or turnip greens for that matter, you got to get the smoked ham hock.

And you throw one of those in there. Oh yeah. Utah might get eaten. Okay. I agree with that. That's a Captain Obvious moment. That's okay. That was a thing 40 years ago. Yeah, it's still a thing. I just didn't mention it. I'm like, man, I'm starting with a ham bone. No, that was already in there. And there was a ham bone in there from a honey-baked ham. So yeah, we had all the basics. There's a spiritual lesson in here somewhere based on this conversation. Because I've been doing a lot of podcasts.

prep this morning. I had to get up early this morning and do prep for our podcast. And we're moving from this Jesus poem, which is awesome. And it's kind of like you have to... It's hard to leave it, to be honest, Jason. It's actually like, it kind of hit me that when you read it, you almost...

it kind of goes over your head. It's like, and so then the next part of it, because I mean, Jesus is the image of the invisible God. He's before all things in him, all things hold together. The firstborn over the resurrection, you know, firstborn from the dead. And then all of a sudden it's like the next phase is like, okay, this is where you were at in this process of creation and redemption.

And it's like you were alienated or excluded, you know, because of your your minds and your behavior. But then he kind of gets into that maturity. And and so I've really been wrestling with what that means. I mean, what what is maturity? But even like the first thing you said when you said about you're not a compassionate person.

person by nature because of the way we were raised. But it kind of made me think we're all like that because I've really seen Phil mature. It's like once you get in Christ, the big sins usually evaporate quickly. I mean, like in my dad's life, he was basically headed to prison or the grave. And it's like, bam, all of a sudden you see these

Big sins, immorality and drunkenness and just breaking the law, man's law. I mean, all this stuff just, boom, went away. But then it's like that maturity in Christ becoming the character, having the character of Christ.

Slowly comes up, you know, it's like now I look at him, there's a compassionate side to him. I say, well, my mom and it, it really, uh, kind of moved me looking at it that way, because really it's not the good things you do or the bad things you don't do. It's you becoming compassionate.

the character of Christ because he's in you. Now, that's a really good point, and you're exactly right because here's the thing. I'm super compassionate with Lisa, with my kids, with my grandkids. Like if one of them gets hurt, you know, I'm instantly right there trying to help them. But if one of – I'm saying it goes back to my raising because if it's one of y'all, like when Willie gets hurt, I just – it's funny to me. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, it shouldn't be like he pulled his growing, baptizing people. But I mean, Zach, when you told us that story, I just started laughing. So it's like, it's funny with like, it goes back to when I was a child. It's hard for me to have that. But like going forward, I guess to your point, Jay's you, you watch that maturity live out in your life with those that you, you know, sort of take care of. And you're right with dad, the way he's been with mom and even with Phyllis, you know, cause like I,

I tried to prepare fellas. I was like, look, my dad, I mean, you don't know him yet. So he's your dad too, but he's just, you know, he's not lovey dovey. He's not going to sit on the porch and have coffee. And then the first time I drive up, they're sitting on the porch having coffee. And I was like, okay, it's a process that is a lifetime pursuit. And I was, I read, I'm just got a new book in that just came out from, uh,

I don't know how he wrote it, From the Grave, I guess, but Dallas Willard. It just came out. I'm trying to think of the name of it. It's not the kingdom. Anyways, there's a place in the very beginning of the book where he's talking about Jesus

in the boat when he's sleeping and the disciples are freaking out because of the storm. And you're talking about the difference between faith in Christ, which is certainly important, but also so that we might have the faith of Christ. And you see how Christ was in the storm. I mean, his faith, the incarnated Son of God, the incarnate Christ,

He was fully convinced and fully believed that his heavenly father would take care of him. And I think that Jace's point is so key about maturity.

Really what it is, it's developing the faith of Christ, becoming like Jesus, smelling like Jesus, acting like Jesus, wanting what Jesus wanted or wants, desiring what he desires. It is a new life, but you don't just flip the switch on. And Phil's a prime example. I mean, to see Phil now and then try to juxtapose that to how I remember him when I was 11, 12 years old, there was no...

you know, emotional affirmation. There was no, I mean, it was, you know, he was saved and he was like, and he got off all, but I mean, you're right, Jace. I mean, it is. Well, I had the same thing about even looking at that word that we broke down the Hebrew word, you know, the in the beginning and talking about that for and through, but it's, it's not just doing good things. It's not just not doing bad things. He literally is in you.

And so those character traits, the ones we don't like, you know, gentleness, self-control, compassion, they just start to form. But it's a process, you know.

It's sort of like we were talking that last podcast in John 6 when Jesus had fed those people and then they come back for more and they're like, what good things must we do? And he says, the good thing you need to do is believe in me. So to bring this back to food, it's what I'm saying. When you're a babe in Christ,

And you understand that. Everything's new. But you don't see a 45-year-old man show up to an adult party with a baby bottle saying, no, I'm going to go with this. That's ridiculous. So, Zach, what I'm saying, you gave that recipe. Once you brought up the craft...

I'll say it's cheese. It's like, nope, immature cooking skills. If that is your secret ingredient. He still has some growing to do. I mean, it just all fell apart and became just a horror show. It went from a recipe to something. And they were like, can we believe anything he said? Says the man who hasn't tried it. At least I would say be humble enough, because that's also the Bible, to try it.

before you criticize it. Let me give you the verse. Our guest is here, so let me just give you the verse. When I was a child, I talked like a child. You remember the verse. But when I became a man,

I matured. I left the Kraft singles right where they were at childhood. And you know what? They don't melt because they're not even real cheese. No, they do melt. That's the thing. They become almost a sauce. That's when you're wrong. I wouldn't call that melting, whatever it is. That's not melting. That's transferring to something else. I'm just telling you. I report, you decide.

All right. So it's our guests is here. So we're going to take a break. We come back. We'll have Jason introduce our guests and Jason won't be alone anymore in the layer. We'll see you after the break.

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So welcome back. I thought we were having a guest. Instead, Dad is back. Dad, you've never looked better since you've been sick. Now I've noticed you're wearing glasses, but you look great. How do you feel? I feel wonderful. Glad to be back with you guys. I miss you, son.

You look 30 years younger. So he went in for back surgery, and he came out. His voice has changed. He looks 30 years younger. Who was your doctor? I hear you've learned how to play the guitar. My goodness. Hey, I'm not kidding. Last time I was in Bossier City, we were playing there tonight. Which is where my dad was actually from. Well, last time I was there, I could not get out of my bed because my back was messed up. Really? And I had to go get surgery. So look at this.

This is like, it's almost too much to take in, you know? It's a God portal. But I'm sitting here. Yeah. Yeah.

So if you're listening, here's the big reveal. It's not Phil. It's not Phil. No, it's Crowder. It's Crowder. It's Crowder. Welcome to the lair. This is wonderful. Why did you bring your puppet with you? I saw on Instagram you got this puppet. I do. It's a little marionette little deal. Yeah. It's so I don't have to do TikToks. I don't want to do the dances. So we make the puppet do the dances. He's good. He's good, man. I got that figured out, man.

You know, actually, I came, here's my come to Jesus story. I was seven years old.

We're in Tulsa, Oklahoma. And my parents, my dad, he was a disciplinarian. And so he had instilled in me and my brother, like, you do not go down that aisle until you know what you're doing. You've got to know what you're doing. Well, they dropped us off at Children's Church in Tulsa, Oklahoma. And so the adults go somewhere and the kids go somewhere. And there's a student on stage, and he's got a purple puppet.

And the puppet's name is Eugene. So he's talking to Eugene. And he's like, Eugene, do you want Jesus in your heart? And Eugene's like, yes, I do. And I'm like, I want what Eugene's got. And I'm right down that aisle. And my parents scoop us up. And we're headed to the hotel after the deal. And I'm in the back seat. And I'm like crying. I'm crying. And my mom's like, what's wrong, David? I go, I'm so sorry.

I asked Jesus in my heart tonight. So I feel like I came to the Lord under duress, under the threat of physical... I feel like I'm one of the martyrs almost. So now you're still doing puppetry. Still doing puppetry. Never underestimate the power of puppetry is my point of the story right there. Eugene, years later, I'm

I'm back in Tulsa, Oklahoma, but we're playing at a church. And Ricky Skaggs is there, and we're with Ricky. And I tell him, you know, in Tulsa is where I came to Jesus. And somebody overhears the story and says, do you know that the pastor of this church, that's the guy that had the purple puppet. Do you want to meet him? I'm like, absolutely. So I go meet the pastor. And then I tell the pastor the story, and he goes, well, I...

I've got Eugene in my office. Do you want to go? He's still working. Dude, he's still. And then he opens his case and there's this, you know, this puppet just laying there lifeless. And I'm like, I don't think this is, this doesn't feel right. And he's like, I've got four of them. I'm like, oh no, like there's four of them. That's too much, man. It was hard to take in. Yeah. Did y'all, did he reenact it? Did y'all like have a conversation? I told him close that case up and I don't want to, I don't want to see that. You know,

I thought Crowder was going to say, then he repented again because it takes a puppet to move his heart. Came right back. So, Crowder, I got to ask you this. All right. Because we were joking about the reason we said you look like that is because of your beard. So, like, you're from Texarkana. That's right.

That's true. Which is right there in our neighborhood. I mean, you're our kind of people. And so do you... The beer's been a part of your deal? So what's... Just now you got to keep it? You got stuck that way? Okay, here's what happened. Here's what happened. It was the year 2000. I was...

I was in Waco, Texas. I went to school at Baylor University. But it's the year 2000, dawn of the millennium, Y2K. Remember that? Yeah. It's terrifying, terrifying. You know, I don't know. Computers were going to stop making water or something. I don't know. Our bathtub was full of water. But I thought, man, how many dawns of millenniums –

I'm going to be around for probably the one. So I took it on myself to, to make it like a spiritual cleansing moment. And so I, at the time I had this, this weird goatee thing. I don't know what it was doing. I was doing, I thought I was doing something cool, but it was doing this goatee thing. And, uh, but I, I,

the ball drops, midnight happens, I kiss my wife, hey, happy new year, happy new millennium, hopefully we'll survive. And then I go into our little bathroom and I, I, I, I razor all my hair off, all my, all the stuff off my face. And, and I was going to start the spiritual cleanse. I look at myself in the mirror without hair on me. And I was like,

this was not Jesus talking. This was not the Holy Spirit. I don't think this, and my, and Tony's like, my wife's like, what are you doing in there? And I'm like, oh my goodness. I didn't tell her anything about this. And so I'm like, this is bad. So I come out and she, she said, put it back now. And she started feeding me like,

prenatal vitamins and making me wash with a, what's that? Like a horse and mane, horse and mane and tail. And, oh, and so anyway, I haven't touched it since then. She's the keeper of the beard. Yeah, she's into it. And so, you know, it, it comes and goes, but it's her, you know, it's all her, uh,

Beckoning, yeah. She'll tell me, I'll see the scissors come out, and she's like, all right, need a trim. But yeah, it's been- Jay's found that out as well. So when the show ended, for I think it was for Miamou, wasn't it, Jay? You shaved your beard. Well, I was gonna shave. That's a handsome man. When he shaved, though, it wasn't, it's not the same thing. I don't know. Oh,

I'm hiding behind a hedge. He had the best hedge's barber ever. Trimmed his hair, gave you a... You did look good. It was your wife. You cleaned up great. It was my wife, yeah. No, I felt... You know what's weird? Because we had just done Duck Dynasty, and the only show that wanted me to join them was that show Naked and Afraid. That was a joke. I'm getting into my speech here. But...

No, I don't know. I felt just really weird about it. I mean, our story, even though you can't go to the internet and find the truth out because there's so much misinformation there. Really? Well, people... Fake news. Fake news.

Paid for by Asha Safaiyi from Mayor 2024. Financial disclosure is available at SFX.org. I'm Asha Safaiyi. As mayor, I will fight for working families every single day. I'm an immigrant, former union organizer, and a supervisor. I have a track record of bringing people together. As mayor, I will build more affordable housing. I will protect our vulnerable renters and make sure we have accessible, affordable childcare. If you're fighting for working families, you're fighting for the soul of our city.

Join me in fighting for a city for all San Franciscans. What I was going to say about with us is, you know, people had all this stuff online and they were like,

uh busted the the truth is revealed because somebody in our family posted when we go to the beach we would all shave every year and they were like they're really not bearded families but we're our family's the ones that put those pictures online it's like for a while once a year we would we would shave after hunting season because that's why we had the beards it's good camouflage

It keeps your face warm. And I mean, that was kind of our thing, but it's wicking. Yeah. Yeah. And, and even, even all the benefits and I'm sure, you know, think how much time we say, that's the thing. Uh, when's the last time somebody tried to mug you? Never. That's what I'm saying. And so, uh, lots of times they'll just give you money too. That's just like, Hey, you know, exactly. Yeah. I tell the story all the time. Uh, Al,

I think told it a few podcasts ago when we were interviewing to do the show, Duck Dynasty, Willie and I were outside the A&E studio drinking $5 cups of coffee, you know, and, but just everybody's walking around in New York.

And just in a moment, a guy dropped some coins in Willie's coffee. Yeah, he just had his cup. That's what I'm talking about, man. It's like, yeah. The only time I've been to Casa is like, oh, man, homeless dude stole a car, you know? Yeah. That can't be his car. Like, yeah. Pull over. Anyway, so don't put your faith and trust what you read on the internet was the mall of that story. Well, I...

It's the first time I've heard that. I'm going to take that to heart next time I look at the internet. So Crowder, I was reading, you were talking about being from Texarkana and you talked about it being a divided town, which I thought was really interesting because it's,

you know, in some parts in Texas and part of it's in Arkansas. That's it. Yeah. And, and we've been there. I've spoken there many times and we actually, Jace, you know, Jimbo Lindsay, our old pal Jimbo lean lives in Texarkana. So he's there now. You know, I just made that connection. Yeah. There's a, there's a really good Mexican restaurant on the Arkansas side. What's the name of it? Yeah. That's our cousin that owns it. Did you know that? It's right downtown. Um,

It's a really great Mexican. Is it? No, I want to say Posada, but that doesn't sound quite right. Zapatos? Zapatos. That's it. Look at that. Oh, my. You've been there? Oh, yes. Now, who owns that? Did you know my cousin owns it? So my mom's first cousin, Janie, her husband is the one that owns it. And.

And he used to work at Superior Grill in Shreveport. And that's where he learned how to cook. And so then he started his own restaurant in Texarkana. Yeah, you can drink a pitcher to that salsa. Oh, man, it's so good. But anyway, so you were talking about this idea. But when I was reading it, it so resonated with me because we grew up.

Jason, I mean more because Jason's pretty young in Junction City, Arkansas, which is also Junction City, Louisiana. And right in the downtown, the red light is the dividing line. So if you go to the grocery store in Arkansas, you cross over to, you know, the Dollar General. You're in Louisiana. And so but you made some really interesting points about that. They kind of led to this thing about the prodigal son, which I thought was really, really interesting. This this piece that you wrote that I was reading.

And I love that idea about you said the word means lavish. Is that right from the prodigal son? And we've all had this grace lavished on us. And yet at the same time, you see, we seem to be more divided than ever, you know, in terms of a culture. But why would we be when in a prodigal son story, the story is as much for the older brother as it is the younger brother, right? To receive the grace. I just thought it was really, really good. I thought it was a good piece that you wrote.

Man, I don't remember that at all, but... Really? Sounds great. Yeah. I mean, I know Texarkana's got that line. Ours terminates at the post office, and there's literally a painted strip on the deal, and you can stand on one side or the other.

And I, you can't feel anything. I think that might be the, the, the point of that one is, is, you know, we're, it's just, it's just a painted strip and you can't feel, you can't feel nothing. One foot in Arkansas, one foot in Texas and feels just the same as standing on either side of it. So I don't know. So how did your singing career start? Man, I, well, as I said, I went to Baylor for college and,

And, um, while I was there, I, what I wanted to do was, uh, sell insurance. I wanted to sell insurance. That's what my dad did. He had, he had an insurance agency, independent insurance called Dan Crowder insurance agency. And I was like, man, this dude's the coolest dude in the world. He had like, you know, he had paneling on his walls and the, uh,

Behind him, he had this forest scene wallpaper and had that phone that you could rest on your shoulder, and he's doing car quotes and whatnot. I'm like, man, this guy's the coolest dude ever, and I want to take over the family practice, have that nepotistic hookup. I got in. So I thought that's what I was going to do. As long as I could pass an engineering exam, I could go ahead and get a job when I got

get done with school. So I was there at Baylor studying music, because I thought it would be fun. It was not fun at all. You're stuck in a practice room, just you and a piano, like, all day, every day. But the guy starting this church was like, hey, man, I know you're musically inclined. Why don't you help me out with the music on Sunday morning? So I wasn't like...

I wasn't singing. I was just sort of getting folks together, getting other college kids to show up, play, and sing, picking the songs, that kind of deal. We were like a worship leader before that was a...

Yeah, I called it the music director at MD. But here's what happened is, you know, it's college kids, so they're not going to show up every Sunday. So somebody wouldn't show up in the past to be like, well, you're going to have to sing. I'm like, oh, this is a terrible idea, but I guess I'm going to have to sing. And then it was...

about a year in, hey, we need some new songs. You should write some songs. I'm like, that's a terrible idea. So anyway, I started writing music about a year into it. And the songs, since we had, I guess, transient parishioners, they would go back home to wherever they came from and take the songs back straightaway.

show their worship leader or their music person, hey, man, here's a new song that we were singing back in Waco, Texas. And so the song kind of trickled out, and then we'd get calls like, hey, could you come do our ski trip or our conference or whatever? Because the songs got there before I did, and then we'd follow the songs. And so that's how I'm – at some point I'm calling home, and I'm like, Dad,

I think it's going to be a while. Here we are still. What was the first song that blew up? Well, it was actually the first one I wrote was called You Alone. And I was terrified. I mean, that first Sunday, I was just, you know, you're forming people's ideas about music.

how they think about God, the divine, how they think about their interactions with each other in light of the divine. It's just, it was a really weighty moment. And, and so the Sunday we do it, um,

My roommate at the time was my best friend growing up from Texarkana. His dad was the music director at the church I grew up in, First Baptist Church, Texarkana, Texas. And I'm telling him, I'm so nervous about this. And so we do it. And then after the deal, I'm like, man, what do you think? How do you think it went? And he's like, what? Doing the song that we wrote, that I wrote, like that. And he goes, man...

I wouldn't call that a song necessarily. That was, it was like three chords and you just said the same thing over and over. And I was like, oh man, well, that song is what led me or it got out. It got out to, uh, Louie Giglio, who is now my pastor in Atlanta, Georgia at, at, uh, Passion City Church. But that song found its way to Louie and the Passion Conference, which is a bunch of college kids. Um, and it was like the second year they were, they were,

they were getting together down in Austin and he, he called me. I was at the church and, uh, pick up the phone. He's like, I'm Louie Giglio. And I'm like, I know who you are. And he says, Hey, we got the song you alone that we want to put on a passion album. We're going to do it live with these college kids that are down there in, in, uh, in Austin, Texas. And I'm like, that sounds wonderful. And that, so that relationship is that he's, he's the, he's the label head of the,

record label I'm at, Six Steps Record. He's the president of the Six Steps Record, which is part of Capital Music Group. And then his wife, Shelly, is my manager. And so that one song, that song that my roommate said was terrible. Yeah, changed your life. It changed my life. It's why I'm sitting right here right now. Did you tell him he was wrong? Did you ever go back to him and say, you got that one wrong? Yeah, he knows. He's out there. He knows.

I want to say on the record, Crowder, that coming into an office thinking I wanted to buy insurance and I see you behind the desk, I'm thinking, nah. Dude, I was giving car quotes at like age 11. You're like, I talked to this really nice female. Well, so where did the kind of rock and roll folksy vibe, what...

Where did that come from? I mean, it had to be something from your childhood or teenage. Yeah, I mean. Because that's really why I like your music, because that was my background, because my dad wasn't a Christian. So we're listening to Pink Floyd. Eagles, yeah. And Credence Clearwater Revival, which is why I like Mack Bile. We were talking about him before we started. You know, that vibe, I thought, oh, this is Christian music? Yeah. And. You know, at the time when I was starting to make the music, it was in a college setting.

Dave Matthews band was huge at the time. I remember. Pearl Jam. Pearl Jam was my deal. Eddie Vedder. Eddie Vedder was my deal. Check this out. That dude taught me how to surf.

Eddie Vedder, I just met randomly on a beach in Hawaii. But what is surfing, really? Just getting on a board? Yeah, you're just trying to stand up. Was he Pearl Jam? Was he doing Pearl Jam when you met? Was he already famous? Oh, yeah. This is like after he's like,

hero for me. Um, this is probably, I don't know, 10, 15 years ago. And I'm like, this dude, this dude taught me really how to, how to, how to do what I do. I went, I was, I was asking all these people like, how do I, how do I lead, um, a group of people that are gathered in a congregation setting? How do I do this? And they tell me, Hey, you gotta be, you know, really careful about the key, you know, keys that you pick. So girls sing here, boys sing here. Man,

Man, I went to a Pearl Jam concert up in Dallas, and every single person in that place was at the top of their lungs singing along. No lyrics on the screen or nothing. They're just singing their heads off. And I'm like, man, that's what we want to do. We want to do something that stirs the soul, that just causes you to erupt. I mean, music is part of how we're put together. And you have the best subject.

On planet earth. Oh, can you sing about anything better now? So, but it forms your imagination in a way that, that, uh, uh, uh, didactic sermon just can't. I mean, you, you talk about forming people's idea who God is and who, what the kingdom is. I mean, there, I mean, it is one of the most powerful mediums for forming. Which is why it's terrifying too. You know, you know, you know, that it's sneaky. And so, and it's also, you know, I don't trust it. Those moments that you're, you're caught up in something, uh,

They feel great. They do form you. You do get some sense of understanding of what's intellectually difficult to grasp. But I trust the moments when you're stuck in traffic more than I do when we're all singing at the same time. You see who's on the throne when you're upset at the car in front of you. Yeah. That one gets me. Of course, I learned that in Willie's interview that you don't drive.

Man, I gave up. Atlanta, Georgia is not where you want to go. Oh, man. You're so right. I drive, but it's like I have like a 64 International Harvester. But it's like driving a lawnmower. It feels like it's trying to kill you. It's like driving a lawnmower. So I just drive around the neighborhood. I don't go anywhere important. I just get out and see the sunshine. I just thought it's funny because you, like me, we look homeless, and now you're basically a hitchhiker.

Which is, we were talking about growing in Christ, you know, and you think he was homeless and was basically, you know, walking around. You know, I mean, it's weird. But, so I thought that was interesting. But another thing in that interview that I listened to that I wanted you to share, because he asked you what, like, venues that...

stood out in your mind that you've been able to perform? Yeah. I don't know if you remember that story. I told him about the Fillmore. Yeah, I told him about the Fillmore. Yeah, I wanted you to share that. Dirty Dave, man. Dirty Dave. Well, first of all, what I didn't tell him is it took us a really long time. I wanted to play the Fillmore. It's one of those...

I mean, classic rock and roll venue. Everybody's played there. In San Francisco, right? San Francisco. And it probably took us three years that we kept asking them. Oh, so y'all were asking them. I was wondering how you wound up there. Oh, man. And it's basically just a bar, right? Oh, yeah. It only holds like about, I guess, 1,000 people, 1,100 people or something. So it's really just a small, tight little box of a thing. But it's cool.

So, I mean, it's historic. And we kept trying and they were like, no, we don't need no church music in here. Like they kept, nope, nope, nope, nope. That's not, this is not the place for that.

Man, that day was so special. Everybody that was working there. But how did you even get in? Do you know? Oh, yeah. They finally just said, okay. Yep. It's because we just kept knocking and knocking and knocking. And finally they're like, all right. And they were just like, this is a terrible idea. Things sold out so quick. So they were like, oh, well, maybe, okay. Maybe we're wrong. Isn't that funny how the world, if they make money, they're like, okay. They're fine with it. We had a show that kind of was like that.

But dude, the guy that was running the thing, at the end of the day, after he's been around all of our crew and whatnot, he grabbed me and was like, bro. He was like a bouncer, right? Now, this is two different stories. This guy was kind of running the whole venue. The Dirty Dave story that I told to Willie is a different deal. But this guy was running the place, and he goes, man, I don't know what happened in there, but...

y'all saying something out like it felt heavy and now you saying you saying whatever's here out it went out tonight i'm like oh really and he goes yeah you're gonna have to come back every year just to to cleanse this place and he didn't he didn't know all the words about it but i was like that's called the holy ghost man that's what i loved about that story because you talk about the dirty dave who was a bouncer or whatever and he's like man i'm

I looked up, and I was crying. Oh, he's like, man, I ain't cried until my mama died, is what he said. Yeah, he was actually like, what happened? He was trying to explain the phenomenon. You were like, it's the Holy Spirit. Man, it's so cool, man. That's what I...

I love about, you know, when you were saying earlier, like, it's the best thing to be singing about. And there's a tangible experience that happens for even people that don't, you know, that aren't of our faith. And they're like, what was that? And it's like, it's the people of God singing to God. And there's something. And the beauty of it is being able to get the gospel out in different ways. ♪

I was thinking about that, Crowder, because you mentioned that about the weight of it. And I feel the same way about preaching because I'm pretending to speak on behalf of the Almighty. And I'm just like, you know, I feel the way anytime I'm up front, I might get me out of the way. But I thought about I met a young man.

a couple of Sundays ago at our church, and he talked about going to see The Blind, which is the movie that Zach produced with Willie and Corey and, you know, about our family. Which we filmed right below your neck. Yeah, exactly. It was right in that area, in between the, you know, the Shreveport area. And, you know, this man told me, he said, you know, I just, I watched the movie and I went home, I couldn't quit crying. And he said, you know, I just kind of been a lukewarm Christian most of my life, living off the faith of my parents, now my wife.

He said, but something about it just tapped deeply into my soul. And all of a sudden, you know, I felt like I need to go all in for Jesus. And I thought, you know, that's another genre, you know, something like that. Just seeing the gospel on a movie screen by watching dad's life change, of course, and a change in our family's destiny. So I feel the same way about worship.

It's different things that God uses to penetrate the hearts of people, but it's the same message. It's just Jesus and what he did for us and how he's playing that out. Yeah, you didn't know this, and my lovely wife, because I asked her, because we knew we had met somewhere. Well, you weren't sure, but I said, I know I met you, and I thought it was in Monroe like 15 years ago, and you thought it was in Virginia 10 years ago.

And I just got the picture. It was actually in Shreveport, and it was five years ago. Five? No way. That's what I said, man. COVID math. I don't know. COVID math is a song. What's scary is this picture. Look, we literally look like twins. Look at that.

Okay, I take it back. We're handsome. I mean, if someone would have come up in that moment, my wife, they would have probably said, now which one are you married to? I mean, it's kind of shocking. We'll share this picture. We'll share the picture. But I've actually used you as an illustration of my speech. I only have one speech. It's never the same, but it is about Jesus.

But I say this all the time because we're introducing Jesus to people. And I go to a lot of worldly venues also. I've been to places where I was literally the only sober person there. And I do my little duck call. That's my musical instruments. But then I share Jesus. And so it's interesting because the tension in the room and people are like, should I put down my beer? It's weird, but in that moment,

I'm exhilarated because I'm like, these people need to hear about Jesus. And nobody says a negative word. It's amazing. But I'll have them just imagine what God looks like because most people, when you ask that question, they either see an old man with a gavel ready to strike them dead or they say light because there's a verse about that. But the number one answer, and I'll ask them what they see, the number one answer is nothing.

And it's like, well, no wonder there's no presence in your mind just goes blank. Cause this is based on faith, you know? And so, and then I usually hold up the Bible and say, look, this is not a rule book. This is not a collection of fairy tales. This is not just where you get information. It's a love story and it's, it's God revealing himself in a person named, named Jesus.

And so when you close your eyes and picture God, you see this Jewish carpenter 2,000 years ago. That's kind of my sermon there. But then I say, but if you're into pictures, you can watch The Chosen because they give you a...

visual image, 'cause now a lot of people when I say, "What did you see?" They see that guy from the chosen. I'm like, "That'll work." But I said, "Well, if you're into music, there's a song out there by Crowder called Red Letters." 'Cause when you came out with that song, that's why I liked it so much. Because when I read, that's how I came to Jesus.

I literally read the red letters and it revealed a picture in my mind of a human who is God named Jesus. And I thought, you know what? I'm going to follow him. So I'm giving you kudos on that song. And that's why I put that in my speech.

And I'm like, or you can read the Bible. He has a book for you if you're a reader. So if you're into pictures, you're into music, or you're a reader, I've got three options to see Jesus. That's incredible. Which is the point. I appreciate that. That's the point of what we've been talking about in Colossians. I mean, the fullness of deity lives in a place.

and a body. Yeah. And you think about to that point, how do you, how do you see who God is? We see in Jesus. That's the, that is, that's questions one and two. Yeah, exactly. I've always said it's a love story. It reveals Jesus, but I actually heard a sermon this morning because we're, we've been talking about how to mature in Christ, you know, have these,

characteristics of Jesus in us, which takes a lot longer than just the stop doing wrong. Yeah, that's not what it's about, right? Exactly. And I wrote this quote down because I thought that goes in perfect with what I say. It says, the Bible is...

is a portal into God's presence in reference. He said, it's not just a book of information. It's a portal through Jesus into God's presence. And I thought, oh, that's good. I like that. That's incredible. That's what's amazing about scripture is, you know, as you said, you kind of ruined it.

the ending, it leads to this person, but that, man, that red letter deal, man, there's a scarlet thread that starts in Genesis 1-1. I mean, it's all leading to God's

inhabiting and and emmanuel with us that's what that's what's a mind blow man oh it really is and a lot of your songs that old testament too it's that's some fun stuff so let's talk about the new album yeah we're almost out of time let's talk about the new album so you it's like i think you got a trilogy going here right yes well i've always done it in threes well here's what happens is you you sign a i sign a uh uh

record contract and it's for three albums. So from the very beginning, I'm like, I should probably know what I'm going to do. It feels like if you're signing on paper, I'm going to do this, then you should know what you're going to do. So I've always done it in threes. This little outfit was started with Promise.

And we did milk and honey. That was the first one of this little thing. We called it milk and honey. And then now we're at the exile. So I knew promise exile return. And that's kind of just, I just need that. I just need like a box to put stuff in. And so I knew that this is a, this is the trajectory of,

of what I want to say. And the first part is the promise. And man, when you're locked down in COVID, it was not difficult at all to write and sing and talk about something like, surely it's going to be better than it is right now. And so there's promise on the other side of this thing. And then Exile, though, man, these songs are more...

less they're less vertical and more horizontal more talking to each other almost like hey here's here's what's going on right now and in our in our culture in our in our time and space and the return though is is meant to be really vertical so coming back well i didn't figure out that the exile and the return were happening at the same time i was writing these songs and i'm like man this doesn't fit on the exile this is not at all what i want to do for the exile

But I love this song. And it took me probably about halfway through the exile that I realized...

ah, they're coming at the same time. And how great is that? Some of the best stories in Scripture are Daniel in the lion's den. That's in exile. I mean, he shuts the mouth of lions. And because he believed prayer was effective, the efficacy of it was worth getting thrown in a den, the lions were for it.

There's a song on there called Somebody Prayed. Oh, yeah, I love that. So I feel like what's coming is exciting, too, because wouldn't he give you something to sing about even when you're on the side of the river and heaven opens up? Wouldn't that give you something to sing about? So I'm excited about this season. We're carrying the...

exile songs right now but the return was happening at the same time the exile was happening i listened to the whole album and i love that uh somebody prayed because i just thought it was clever

when how you just, you see something happen that's beautiful and awesome. But the perspective of the song was, well, man, somebody, that one came out of, you know, um, speaking of, uh, social media, um, it was right after, right after, um, the Nashville shooting, we were on tour. We had a lot of friends that were really, it, it hit close and, uh,

people were carrying that thing, speaking of heavy, they were carrying that moment really heavily. Kids at the school and parents that were part of that. So all of a sudden you see on social media people sending, hey, thoughts and prayers, and immediately getting beat down. If you come at thoughts and prayers and you're hating on that, it's...

it's because you don't believe that that works at all. It's because you don't believe that there's anything to it. You just, I mean, in the worst it's, or in the least, I guess I should say it's, it's, it's, you're just trying to empathize and, and, and let people know, I feel, I feel what you're feeling, but in the best it's because you think God,

God still interacts with history and that when you, when you hit your knees and when you beg him to move, he moves. And I've seen it happen over and over. And so that was kind of like a fist to the air type songs, really defiant song. Plus our old, our old pal Dylan Scott is on there. He's from our neck. It was too, which he's, he's amazing talent. So look, we're out of time. We got to have you back some next time you're back in our area. We'll come back for some more tales. I would love it. See how you just got a look at you.

that I feel a comfort and a peace. Yeah, I feel like I could just stay right here, move in. That couch over there, too, is the most comfortable place I've ever sat in my life. That is pretty good. I'd take that with me if I could. Much of our studio audience has slept there. All right, Crowder, best of luck to you, brother. It's David Crowder. When you Google it, make sure you Google David Crowder.

We'll see you next time. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes. And for even more content that you won't get anywhere else, subscribe to BlazeTV at blazetv.com slash unashamed.