Ep 982 | Jase Drops a Hot Take That Will Ruffle Some Feathers & Elmer Fudd Makes an Appearance
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I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. We're still waiting on Dad. As you know, we film a couple in a row, so we still don't have Dad with us. He's probably going to be a while. Yeah, that's okay. Y'all pray for Phil. It's kind of funny. It's been one of those, watching Phil, because he's been this person in all of our lives, it's almost larger than life type figure, you know?

And to see him, I don't know, it's kind of shaken me up a little bit. Yeah, it's hard. And it was the same with your mom, Zach. Whenever she got sick at the end of her life, you know, someone that meant so much to you in a spiritual way, you know, as a mentor, that's a hard thing to watch, you know, when they're suffering and having a hard time. I did want to say this, Zach, it was interesting yesterday.

Uh, at WFR, um, dad hadn't been able to teach his class, you know, for a couple of weeks, but he's been, which is the first time in years, years. Cause in, in Friday, last Friday, he was going when I talked to him, but by Saturday he felt too bad. But, uh, so he's been training Jersey Joe and, and, you know, we had Joe not too long ago.

And Joe is doing really well. He's kind of been team teaching with dad. Who came from, I mean, you know, the Lord obviously worked it out. So let me clarify that. But he came from being a podcast listener. Yeah, exactly. And why not move in here? Yeah, moved his whole state from New Jersey, which he's now dubbed Jersey Joe. Yeah. And he's my Jersey in law because his son is married to my granddaughter. So it's been an interesting thing to watch. So yesterday I was so excited.

You know, Paul talks about having a godly pride when he talked about Timothy. I mean, when I was standing up there, so Joe's in the water, because a lot of times people come to get baptized, they'll come to the unashamed class, and

And so Joe's in the water, but Joe just had rotator cuff surgery on Monday. So he's got one arm in this crazy looking sling that's way out of away from him. I've dubbed him the one arm bandit for Jesus. He tried to baptize people one hand. He had one arm. And I said, I said, Joe, did you kill the fugitive's wife? Cause you're the one arm man in the, in the water, but he was smart enough to recruit him a

person that actually did the dipping, but they were standing there in the water and Joe was sharing. And it was just, I don't know. I felt so good about it. And then I met a couple, uh, from Tyler. They were here and they had both gotten baptized by Joe and whoever was helping him. And he told me, Zach, I was going to mention this cause you were talking about dad, that he, he said, I grew up religious, uh,

I went to church. I knew the stories. I knew about Jesus. I knew all the things. He said, and I really wasn't a terrible person. I certainly was not perfect. I made mistakes. He said, then I got married and my wife just was, was very spiritual minded, but it never really broke through to me until they went and saw the blind. And he said, when we were watching that movie, he said he was so overcome emotionally that

He just looked at his own life. He said, I went home that night and he said, I just, I couldn't quit crying.

And my wife was like, at first it was good. And then it was like, well, is something wrong with you? Like, you know, by now you should be like not crying. And he said, I just don't feel like I ever really went all in with Christ. And so the movie pushed him emotionally to want to know more about Jesus, not just in an intellectual way. Yeah. And so it was, it was watching the story of the gospel. And so it made me think about our discussion on the last podcast about

When we were talking about, Jace was talking about mentoring this person, this new Christian, and the idea is people say, well, I don't really have anything to say. But you do because it's the simplicity and authenticity of what Jesus does in you. And sometimes that's just seeing someone else's story played out. And this is exactly what happened to this young man. And I could tell he is on fire for Christ. And I found that to be where the...

like the real ministry of reconciliation that happens through the church, through the people of Christ, through the body of believers.

It happens through our sincerity of our stories, pointing people to who Jesus is and not to diminish doctrine, not to diminish theology, not to diminish these things. But the problem is you can get into this academic and we kind of go back and forth and joke around about this a lot on our podcast. But you can get so academic in this and you think I got to have all the things and the right doctrines already. I know I got to know it all.

And then I can be effective as a minister of the gospel. And it's just really not true. And I think that's actually the point. It's kind of one of the main points of where we're at in the text in Colossians 1 and 2. I mean, the point is, it's not all these things of God that are going to make you right. The reality is found actually in the person of who God is. And so that's why he continues using that language, faith.

for by him in him in him in him it's it's it's pointing everything it's like all these fingers are just pointing right to the same thing it's not the thing it's a person the person of jesus and that's what your stories do that's what the blind did it's just it's a story that we told you know our family origin story but at the end of it you're watching it you're like hmm that's my story you know i don't know we're we're tracking on this uh and that's

That's awesome that you say that because you are the academic representative of our group. But the book of Acts, it was a, and this is what I told my buddy, it was a simple declaration of who Jesus is, no matter who was in the audience. They say the same thing over and over. You know, Phil, to represent Phil, it's like,

They shared the gospel, the good news of Jesus over and over in the book of Acts. We get it that they're, you know, in the church, people have special gifts of teaching or preaching or, you know, serving or whatever it is. But as spirit-filled people,

We declare who Jesus is and God's story in our story. That's just what they did. And that should be the power in it. And it made me think of something. This will probably be a little controversial, but it's like even in the context of this church here at Colossae,

This deceptive philosophy comes up and this kind of mystical knowledge that they were in pursuit of. And you see that in our churches today. People are like, well, let's go deeper. And I'll give you a classic example. And I'm going to offend thousands of people, but I don't care.

You know how you're sitting there. I've never heard anybody declare that they're about to offend. I'm fixed to offend thousands of people because thousands of people at churches, tens of thousands, do this every Sunday. And I always think when they do it, I always think, huh.

So here you go. You've never heard this in the history of any kind of religious discussion, but I am fixed to take on something that up until this moment you thought was a good thing. I'm going to have a different take on it. So what will happen is these are pastors and teachers, which we love and we need, but they're flawed human beings. And so sometimes I feel like there'll be a sermon.

And you can read this person's mind because they'll come up with these clever little phrases or sentences that seem deep. I don't even know how to describe them. It's like the three points are like things that it's it's sounds fantastic. And then they'll give the point and somebody next to you will say, oh, that's good.

Oh, that's good. That's good. That's good. Have you heard that? Oh, yeah. Millions of times I've heard it. That's good. And I always think, huh, you think, what problem could you have with that? And I think the point is, nothing that we come up with is as good as the good news of Jesus. Nothing. Well, they're not saying it's better than the gospel. I'm not saying that. I'm not attacking this saying don't do this. I'm just saying the simplicity of

I agree with that. In reference to the book of Acts. Right. They weren't coming up with these clever arguments. And Paul says that over and over and over. You know, it jades to your point. What people should say in the pews is what our good friend Kurt Lively always says.

Jesus. The most simple-minded. I wanted to respond to your point, Jace, where that's good, but then I was like, but I can't. Exactly. I'm in a weird predicament right now. You can keep saying that. You can keep saying it. I'm not saying don't say it. I'm just trying to highlight the fact. No, it's a valid. The simplicity. Don't feel like you've got to go into a room and come up. Because you're right, because a lot of times pastors especially get in a one-up with each other.

where they feel like they have to come up with more clever ways to present Jesus. And so, you know, it's back to that peddling concept, Zach, you talked about in the last podcast.

We don't want to be peddlers, meaning that somehow it's my presentation that makes the difference. I'm not just doing this. Yeah, it doesn't mean that you don't seek to learn new languages. Look, I learned early on to alliterate in sermons. I just, I can't help myself. Stop watering down my point because what I'm saying is I do believe that is the point of Paul's letter to the Colossians because they're going out into the world in different religions and they're sitting there and they're saying, oh, that's good. That's good.

And Paul, in this section, he brags on them at first. You're doing great.

Faith, love, springing from the hope. And then he makes an interesting point. He starts zeroing in on spiritual wisdom in verse 9 and understanding. And then he says, grow in the knowledge of God because you're going to find out in chapter 2 that they think there's got to be something more. There's different kinds of this mystic knowledge that you can find out where you say, oh,

Oh, I got it. That's good. And so then he interrupts that conversation after he says about the kingdom. He's like, let's just get this straight. The father has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in the kingdom of light. Well, what's better than that? Yeah. There's nothing that you can say. Oh, that's better. No. And then he's rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the son he loves. That's right now.

In whom we have redemption.

The forgiveness of sins. Well, that's good. And you're not going to come up with something better than that. So they're hearing all this hollow and deceptive philosophy based on the elemental principles of the world. And so that's kind of the struggle. So then he, what many people believe is a poem or a song that they had concocted based on who Jesus is.

And do you want me to go ahead and read? Yeah. Let's read this. This is top 10 paragraphs in the Bible, I believe. And most scholars think, and have for a long time, that this was a song. I mean, he was preaching. Yeah, a song or a poem. Tell us where we're at. Colossians 1.15. He had just stated this.

that he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness, brought us into the kingdom of the son he loves. Cause you know, Al spoke yesterday and they called it one kingdom Sunday, but always remember we're part of the kingdom of heaven on earth, but we point people to the king. There is a king there.

That has made all this happen. And that is interwoven in everything that he's just read. Especially when you look at the Greek language here. He's saying there is a king and his name is Jesus. By the way, we didn't, I don't know that we said this when we were doing this text, but brought us in means we're in it.

Doesn't mean we're waiting on it. Yeah, he doesn't say, and he is going to deliver us from the domain of darkness and transfer us. That's past tense. Yeah. Which means if he's already transferred us into the kingdom, what does that mean about the kingdom? And it's accessibility. It means it's here now. And so this is a key text for one of the key texts for why we

so much about the kingdom of God being here. Exactly. And the Hebrew writer said he brought us into an unshakable kingdom, which I love that.

We talk a lot about life on the podcast and being pro-life. One of our partners, Preborn, works with us on that. I mean, it's a life philosophy for us just to be able to be there for kids and defend them. Yeah, look, I've spent the last two and a half years help raising a baby who I feel is fortunate to be here, who came out of a real difficult situation. But

but was granted life by his mom. And that's part of what we do, but it makes you appreciate life. I mean, these are human beings that will be productive and should have a shot at living their dreams. And look, everybody in the scenario of an unplanned pregnancy needs to be loved and needs to be helped. And that's what

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So watch how this works. So Jesus, this one who is the king, that we're his kingdom, is the image of the invisible God. Oh, that's good. Can we say that's good? Well, that's good. This is good. Can I say come on? That's best. So the firstborn over all creation.

Well, that's good. That's good. Now you say, what does that mean? Well, me finding out what that means literally made me give my wife about a 10 minute sermon this morning when she woke up. I was like, you ever thought about that phrase? Jesus was the firstborn over all creation, which is where I got the idea of that's good. And she's like, well, what'd you find out? I said, it's good. Yeah.

I tell you what it's not, because I did go down a rabbit hole myself, Jay. It's the people that said that Jesus was the first thing God created is what that means. And that's not true. That is not what it means. But people did follow, unfortunately, that pathway and it's not good. That's not good, Jay. That's not good. That's not good. All right, we'll get into that in a second. For by him all things were created.

Things in heaven and on earth, visible or invisible, whether thrones, powers, rulers, or authorities, all things were created by him and for him. Which is why you know that he wasn't created. That's right. He was there. All things that were created were created by him and for him. Yeah. Excellent point. So he can't create himself. You're smarter than you look. He's like an old Airedale dog. Yeah. But he's got on this...

He's got on this Elmer Fudd look. So that's what really makes it more powerful. What's funny is that Zach's got this costume on now across three podcasts. It's not a costume, guys. Zach, when I see you as telling me a subliminal message, you know what it is? What? Don't shoot me.

All right. Verse 18. Get back to a little thing we like to call Colossians 1.15. That's good. 17. Colossians 1.17. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. Now, at this point, your brain begins to... It's almost too much. It's pulsating. Wait a minute now. Is he before... So you want to immediately back up. That's why you can't even read this without stopping and talking, because you're like...

All right, wait a minute. He created all things, all things before him, everything, everything? The kings and power, that's all his doing? He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. Wow. And he is the head of the body, the church. Well, that's us. Yeah. It's not a building. Thank you. He is the beginning and the firstborn of,

From among the dead. It's the second firstborn thing. Second firstborn. He was firstborn over all creation, and now he's the firstborn from among the dead. So that in everything, he might have the supremacy. They translated supremacy. I don't think there's a word big enough to interject there. Yeah. Because you think supreme. My translation says preeminent supremacy.

Preeminence. That's pretty good. Preeminence. Because what's unfortunate is there's some pizza places that they'll sell a Supreme pizza. It's like everything being awesome. I mean, like the word has now gotten used so...

you know, menial. Yeah. So we're trying to use a word here to describe Christ that we also use in the pizza, pizza industry. That's laughable. And we said, he's not only the first one of creation, but now of also glorified living forever after dying. Yeah. So then it continues for God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, which is another brain teaser. Yeah.

So all the fullness, which he's going to say that again in 2.9 before he says, for in Christ, all the fullness of the deity, which is a God...

quality or description lives in bodily form of course verse 10 says and you have been given fullness in christ who is the head over every power that's good so back to that's real good so then it says in two i mean a 119 for god was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him and through him to reconcile or what's a better word uh bring

Put back together. Reconnect. Reconnect to himself. Now listen to this phrase. All things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood shed on the cross. I mean, this is a complete new creation, which what I find awesome is that it's definitely a reference to the first creation of

And now this is a, Jesus has brought a new creation. He was before and behind all the initial creation. Think Genesis 1 through 3. And now we have a new creation. But you got, I think to understand it, like you got to get the foundation correct. So I just want to, I was thinking this little exercise when you were reading this. I'm just going to read.

A few words from the one, two, three, four, five, six verses that you just read. I'm just going to read a few words to make the point. How do we develop a foundation here? I think this will make the point. He, him, he, him, him, he, him, he, he, he, him, him, himself, himself.

I mean, like you, you, you get this. It's such a repetition of, of him ref of, of Paul referencing to cry. It's just like, it's almost like over and over himself. He, he. So what's the, that was about what? 20, 20 references. It's like, if someone hadn't heard what we had talked about before, they would, they would have thought your brain just went, got weird. He, him, him, he, he, him, him, he, he, he, him, him. It was like a weird song.

It did sound weird when I was doing it, but I think I did it one time when you weren't here, when we referenced an introduction here, I just put Jesus in all those. And it's like, you say, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus. So, I mean, he's making a point here. Do not miss the simplicity. This is about a person.

So then he gets to 21. Once you were alienated from God... Because, by the way, the reason he adds this part in is to let you know that reconnect part you mentioned. Reconnect. If you don't understand that it's broken, you'll never understand that. And I would also argue that when you had...

the first creation in Genesis 1-3, you also had an exodus in the next book. And what did God do to God's chosen people? He rescued them, which is the same language in verse 15. So look, just think about what he's saying here.

to a lot of his audience were Jewish people and they're familiar with the creation story and the Exodus story. And now what is he sharing? There's a new creation that has occurred through Jesus and a new Exodus. He rescued us, that 115, we didn't bring that up when we read it. I purposely waited because it connects with 21. Once you were alienated from God,

And we're enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. And this sounds a lot like Ephesians 2, 3, you know, under the control of the evil one, remember the objects of God's wrath. But I love how this kind of gives you the process for how that happened. Don't blame God because he said once you were alienated from God. Now, whose fault was that? And we're enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.

But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death. This is beautiful. To present you wholly in his sight, in his presence, some versions say, without blemish and free from accusation.

I mean, it's one thing to be cleaned up. It's another thing to say you can't even be accused in the presence of God because of Jesus. Which, by the way, doesn't mean that the accuser is not still accusing. Exactly. But you're free from it. You're free, but where to think of it? Accuse all you want. Because when you think about being an enemy, that's an interesting phrase that he uses, that you are enemies in your mind, which makes some people uncomfortable.

with the implications of what that means. It doesn't make me uncomfortable at all because it's the scripture, but I was reminded of a quote somebody sent me recently that talked about the power of the mind and how this works. This was from St. Augustine. He said, "...the punishment of every disordered mind is its own disorder. This is the ultimate penalty."

This sounds a whole lot, by the way, like Romans when he says that they were given over to their own depravity. The mind's own state of confusion and alienation from truth is its punishment. There is no need for any external force to punish it. The internal disorder, this turning away from the order and the harmony of God's creation is the most severe penalty a soul can suffer. That is the state.

of the human condition when we are not reconciled with God, we are left to our own disorder, which actually is the worst form of punishment. And that's what Paul is addressing here of when he talks about being reconciled. And it's having that restored where you don't have to live in your own hell.

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Try Liver Health Formula by going to getliverhealth.com slash unashamed. That's getliverhealth.com slash unashamed to claim your free bonus gift. Verse 23 of chapter 1. If you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the good news, which is my point, people were trying to convince them there was something other to know than Jesus that was, ooh,

This is good. It's not going to be better than Jesus. And that's why I did the point a few podcasts ago about fake news versus good news. Any other God or Lord on the planet that's ever been, it was fake news, promising prosperity or security or eternity. And even in this first century, Jace, it's the main thing they were dealing with was people saying that we are divine.

That was the false teaching that they were directly dealing with. And people still do to this day, I mean, to make themselves God. And people just had a hard time, especially the Jewish section of saying God became a man. I mean, that first verse, Jesus is the image of the invisible God. Yeah. Because now look, everybody realizes that we're made in the image of God who are believers. But Paul is saying, okay, we're made in the image of God.

Jesus is the image of God. Yes, sir. I mean, that's a powerful thought if you think about it. That's good. So then it says, this is the gospel, good news, that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant. Now, whether they had actually heard

Reached all the people, or it was just saying this is available to all, which is kind of what I believe. This is for everybody. So I read an interesting view on this section from some PhD somewhere who had a take on N.T. Wright's course on Colossians 1. And I wanted to share that with you because at first I was like, wait, what? And

What N.T. Wright said was, according to this fellow, because I didn't take the course or read it, but I thought this was really interesting. He said, if you take Genesis 1 and you mix it with Proverbs 8, which was news to me because I thought Proverbs 8. And he said, and you mix it with Jesus on your mind, you'll get Colossians 1, 15 through 20.

So I was like, well, what in the world? How did I miss Proverbs 8? So I went over there and read it. And just to give you a little, I don't think we've ever done this on the podcast, but here's what happened to me last night in my study. I started reading Proverbs 8, and he said especially verse 22, so I want to get that on the record. But

When I started reading Proverbs 8.1, it says, does not wisdom call out, does not understanding raise her voice? And so me, I thought, you know what? I don't want to just hijack the context. So I went back and I read Proverbs 7. Well, Proverbs 7, I've used in multiple sermons. Oh, yeah. Because I've always said it was the birthplace of that song from ACDC, The Highway to Hell, because that's seven verses.

727, it's talking about the warning against the adulteress. It says her house is a highway to hell leading down to the chambers of death. It's a real interesting story. But then I backed up to Hebrews 6. I mean, not Hebrews 6. Then I backed up to Proverbs 6.

And you remember there's a famous passage in there. This is 616. There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him. And by the way, when I read these things, you know what it seems like it's the opposite of? The armor of God that we read in Ephesians 6. Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood.

a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies, and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers. If you want to mess up a society, live out those seven things because that's what's going on. But look, as I went backwards, it's all about wisdom. And people say that. They say, okay, Proverbs is written.

by Solomon and others who were deemed wise. And it's all about wisdom and this knowledge. And people go here and write hundreds of books over this idea of knowledge and wisdom. But in chapter eight to N.T. Wright's point in verse 22, all of a sudden wisdom is

And look, it's not unlike the whole book, because after I finished reading this chapter eight, I read the whole book. And you know what I realized for the first time is that the whole book of Proverbs is contrasting wisdom as a person. There's so many different relationships that are referred to treat wisdom like a mother or a brother or a wife or whatever.

But in Proverbs 8, you have this messianic reference of it being Jesus. And it says, the Lord brought me forth, this is 822, as the first of his works before his deeds of old, which is why people incorrectly say that Jesus was created. They call this lady wisdom, you know.

And he's not making a theological point other than verse 23 says, I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began. Well, all of a sudden you're like, well, this sounds a lot like Jesus. And so to N.T. Wright's point, when you get to Colossians 2, I know this is a long way around this, but I think it's awesome.

When he addresses the Colossians situation in Colossians 2.2, all of a sudden this idea of wisdom being a person becomes full circle. It says, 2.2 of Colossians, My purpose is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, which is a reference he gave in 1.9, in order that they may know the mystery of God.

Christ, in whom are hidden all treasures, look, of wisdom and knowledge. I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine sounding arguments. So that was my point about this is good. Wisdom is a person. His name is Jesus. And 1 Corinthians 1.

I mean, really the whole section in chapter one, he says the same identical thing. And just to give you a few points on that, when he says, you remember the conversation? Look, verse 20. Where's the wise man? Where's the scholar? Where's the philosopher? Has not God?

made foolish the wisdom of the world for since the wisdom of god the world through its wisdom did not know him god was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe jews demand miraculous signs greeks looks for wisdom but we preach jesus crucified

And look at what 24 says. But to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God. He doubles down on it in chapter 2.

He says, I came to you in verse 3 in weakness and fear and with trembling. My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power. And he starts talking about this secret wisdom that we possess because we have God's Holy Spirit. Yep.

Verse 12 of chapter 2, we have not received the spirit of the world, but the spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught to us by human wisdom, but in words taught by the spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The man without the spirit does not accept the things that come from God, the spirit of God, for they are foolishness.

And he gets all the way down in the last verse of chapter two and says, but we have the mind of Christ. And so when you add that, all that up, and you even remember in Jesus's own words, remember in Matthew 11, when they said, well, here's Jesus. And you say, because I hang out with sinners, that I'm a drunk and a glutton.

And he said, wisdom is proved right by her actions. So even he personified wisdom as well. So, I mean, that was a long dissertation, Proverbs 8. But really the whole book of Proverbs about it pointing to Jesus as the wisdom of God and being relational instead of you're going to hear some

Not mystical knowledge or you know, you know how people say that they're like, oh wait, let's get deeper We're gonna get deep this is for the believers and we're gonna get into the deep things of God You're never gonna get deeper than Jesus Christ. He is the wisdom of God. I agree and I think that's his point So one other thing NT Wright did that I wanted to bring up so

When you look at the first phrase in the Bible, you remember what it is? In the beginning. In the beginning. Well, in the Hebrew language and in the Greek language, by the way, it's just one word. And I can't pronounce it because I'm not very good in the Hebrew language.

But I did take a picture of it, and I'll spell it for you. They don't have any vowels in the book. Well, it's B-E-R-E-S-H-Y-T. And B means in, through, or for. And then the rest of the word, R-E-S-H-Y-T, means, listen to this, beginning, end.

Well, who's that sound like? Sounds like the firstborn. So what we find in Colossians 1 is Paul basically taking those seven definitions of those two separate words that when combined gives you the word in the beginning. Yeah.

And he deals with those definitions in that section, which is absolutely insane. It is. Which is why he mixed Proverbs 8 with Genesis 1. So if you're wondering what I'm saying, so be in, for, and through. How many times does it say in Christ, for Christ, through Christ in that section and in the whole book of Ephesians?

And how many times is it referenced? Beginning, firstborn or first fruits. Head, he's the head of the body or the sum of all. Bringing all on heaven and earth. Hey, and I would refer you to a little text we'd like to call John 1.1. I have a little text, John 1.1. Look what I just turned to in my notes. I literally was turning to his that before you said that.

It's funny how it must be the Spirit of God because it can't be that we're all on the same page. Well, it's just what he wrote. It's what he revealed. But it's funny that the whole thing that Jace just mentioned is really the way the whole book of John's Gospel is introduced. It's basically explaining just that. Well, and my point is, even that book of Proverbs, the reason I went through the whole book

is because I've always said, when you hold your Bible up and say, what's this about? It's just like when I do the duck, I'll do a duck call demonstration. Most people, they don't duck hunt. And so you're like, why are you doing that? Because that's kind of what we do. We build duck calls.

no one's interested in how that duck call works and if i tried to explain that okay you have a soundboard you have these reeds there's two of them there's a dimple on it they're bent up and they're aerodynamically well look even y'all i've lost y'all yep nobody cares but what is it for you say well look we use this to call ducks into painted pieces of plastic called decoys and we shoot them

And everybody, they laugh. That was not intended to be funny. That is really what is happening here. And it's based on Genesis 9. God said, look, anything that walks, crawls, flies, or swims, it'll be food for you. And people are like, wow, that's good. Well, it was an invention based on having meals with people. And so when you look at the Bible, I think the same thing applies.

Us as religious people, they take the Bible and they segment it into little sections and deep thoughts. And here's what this means. And what results in a lot of chaos among religious people, a lot of arguments, a lot of semantics. We can't get along. And so I always say, look, the Bible lets you unite on this. It's about Jesus. Even the Old Testament. Correct. And so what N.T. Wright did in the defining of that word, which seemed boring.

He actually showed you that what Paul did in Colossians 1, 15 through 21 was a definition of what the first word is in the Bible. He's been here. This is a plan that came about. And that's why when you read Ephesians 1, which is a very controversial verse, it makes more sense now. In verse 4, it says, for God chose us.

In him, listen to this, before the creation of the world, that in the beginning was God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit executing the plan. And it says, then he chose before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.

In love, he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ. Everything's going in, by, and through Jesus since the very first word of the Bible. And the book of Proverbs was an excellent example. Wisdom is a person. Wisdom that's godly wisdom is a person, and his name is Jesus Christ.

And Solomon, in his being led by the Holy Spirit to write that down, actually gave you a hint. Which, I mean, that's a great point. And I think that so often and sadly, we reduce these scriptures like the one you just mentioned, Ephesians, to some type of

position, you're diminishing it when you do that. I don't think this is to be read at its core as a doctrinal position in any of this. I think what this is meant to be read as, as a pointing us to the

the person of Jesus who is the living God, where all the fullness of deity dwells in bodily form. And to go back to that John 1 passage, I mean, that's the whole point of John, that in the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And then here's the pronoun. He was in the beginning with God. All things are made through Him, and without Him nothing that has been made was made. In Him was life.

And the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. I think this is the thing that Colossians 1 and 2 is so powerful is because it really does take our feeble attempts to corral God into a belief system, to corral him into a doctrinal position, not saying that none of those things don't matter. But what I am saying is they are all secondary to the person of Jesus who is the Son of the living God.

All of it's secondary to who he is, and all of it should point to him. So I think that is a key point of where this is headed in Colossians 1, not just with the mysticism that you talked about, but also with some of the legalism.

And some of the ritualistic rules, how you act with different religious festivities and festivals. And it's all of it. He's knocking down all these idols. And he's saying all this stuff. If you get focused on that and you miss who it was about, then you miss the whole thing. I wanted to add on to Jace's point because it's mind-blowing to me because I didn't know Jace was going here today. But when I think about the Old Testament and I think about Solomon,

I mean, to show you it's not us. It had to be Jesus even back then. What a conflicted individual. He was given the Spirit of God, and he was the wisest man that ever lived, the Bible says about him. And yet, he had a thousand wives. He had all these connections he made. Look, and the same guy that wrote Proverbs wrote Ecclesiastes. You're talking about a Debbie Downer. Exactly. Go read that. But this guy, Solomon...

was the product of David's adulterous relationship with Bathsheba, who was Solomon's mother. Exactly. And I really believe that all that played out the way it did historically to show us it was never about us. Oh, I agree. See, look, I'm embarrassed how I viewed Proverbs up until last night.

I'm just embarrassed because I thought the whole thing, I thought the same thing he did. He had a thousand wives, but he keeps making these references about, I mean, the whole last chapter is about finding a wife, a noble character. And he said, I had a thousand of them and I didn't find any of them. They're terrible. They're all bad. Stay away from that. And the adulterous wife. But I think it was a preview in light of Proverbs 8 to N.T. Wright's point.

It was a preview of us as humans being married to Jesus and Jesus finding people who are living a life worthy of the Lord, which is what he said in Colossians 1. And just to give you an example, a couple of examples, go read now in light of wisdom being a person and relational. When you go back and read the whole book of Proverbs, you're going to be filled with moments of saying, wow, wow.

That's good. This is awesome. And just a couple of nuggets to tease you on that. A couple of them I found funny.

is, you know, I already mentioned the one about the ACDC, but in Proverbs 12, 1, it says, whoever loves discipline, because we know God multiple times says he disciplines those he loves. Things, bad things are going to happen. Loves knowledge. But you got to remember, knowledge is

It's talking about knowing Jesus. He is the wisdom and knowledge of God. But then listen to what he says. But he who hates correction is stupid. I mean, it's just no. That's why it makes more sense when you look at it relationally. You want to go out there and think you're going to live life without discipline and live life without the creator of the universe on your side in Jesus? Guess what? That's stupid.

And it comes full circle to my point in Proverbs 21, which is a verse I've read many times in many speeches. And now I have a deeper understanding of it. And I'm preaching tonight and I will read this. 2130 says there is no wisdom, no insight, no plan that can succeed against the Lord. And that's why I made my little reference about offending people saying, well, that's good.

Jesus is what's good. That's the good news in who he is. And he's our wisdom. He's our knowledge. He's our understanding. And we have his spirit, which according to 1 Corinthians 2, allows us to have the mind of Christ functioning on this earth. And the next verse in that Proverbs 21 says, the horse is made ready for battle, for the day of battle, but victory is

Rest with the Lord. It comes back to that relational aspect of who Jesus as Lord is. And that's what Paul was reminding them of because they were so tempted to think that there was some knowledge, whether, as Zach said, it was God.

Legalism, this rule-oriented system, which you understand their dilemma. This is the way they were taught. This was the same God who had a system that they couldn't keep, they were not faithful to, and ultimately, in God's wisdom,

sent Jesus to rescue us from having a rule oriented system or some other kind of system that's out there in the world based on just, Oh, just go out there and do whatever feels natural, you know? And, and the proverb writer is right in saying, well, that's just stupid. It's not going to work. Cause, cause the hard thing is when we say that, cause you hear people say all the time, now it's like very popular over the last 15 years, uh,

you know, for church people to say something like, it's not about rules. It's about a relationship. I mean, we've all said that over and over again, right? Almost to the point where it's almost lost its meaning, but I think it's lost its meaning a lot is because it's, it's, it's, we don't understand what a relationship is. That's the problem. We, when we say relationship, what, what that, what we mean, a lot of times when we say that it's not about the rules, meaning,

Me and God got a thing going, but do you really have a relationship with him if you're not doing any of, if you're not like in communion with him? So when you talk about the word knowledge and knowing him, which is what, by the way, how Jesus defines eternal life is knowing God. That word, like think about even going back to the Old Testament, whenever they would use the term for the sexual union, they would say that they knew each other.

And so this idea of knowing someone, it's actually connected with intimacy. It's connected with really having a relationship where you know the person's spirit, where your souls are connected. The mingling of souls, as one author wrote about marriage, he used that term mingling of souls. I think it was Matt Chandler. But I mean, when you think about knowing God in an intimate way, in a way where we're actually connected, then it is about a relationship.

And that's why when it says the reality is found in Christ, you can try to supplement that. And we're crafty as humans, right? We can take all the good things of God and we can very easily twist them and convince ourselves that they're still about God when they're really not about God. They're really about us maintaining our own autonomy. But anything that drives us into our own autonomous, self-centered life

that is not what God has called us to. God has called us into union with

with Christ and that's an ever increasing and ever deepening relationship. So it's not relationship in the sense of, Oh yeah, we, yeah, we're buddies. We know each other. Like, like I met you, we met on Tinder. We met on some dating app. Yeah. We hook up. We're friends of benefit. It's not that this is a lifelong self sacrificial love that you see in true union and true. And I'll tell you how it changes you. Zach is, is we're about out of time is when I was a young preacher, um,

I prayed that the Almighty would empower me through His Spirit to speak His Word. Now, as a person who is fully submitted to Christ and realize the responsibility I have, I pray that I get out of the way and the Holy Spirit says what He needs to say.

through his word. You know what I'm saying? I mean, it takes me out of the pit. My constant prayer is don't let me get in the way of what you want to get done, which, which is what we should be praying. So we're out of time, man, chase. That's good. That's good. Yeah.

So we're going to bring back some more good stuff next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes. And for even more content that you won't get anywhere else, subscribe to BlazeTV at blazetv.com slash unashamed.