Ep 929 | Phil & Jase Defend Trump VP Pick JD Vance & He Looks Half Robertson!
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I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to the Unashamed Podcast. We were sitting here talking just before we started rolling and we were reminiscing. We had sound recently. For two podcasts. For back-to-back, which has never happened. You know, last time we had Willie on.

We went back to back because we got so much into his book, The Gospeler, by the way, which is a great book if you want to check it out. And don't forget about Dad's book, too, which is still for sale out there. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. But we had Simon, and he was... First of all, I don't know if it's this new, you know, the shaving. And now he's... I didn't realize it was combined with his... I guess he had LASIK surgery or something on his eyes. He had some kind of surgery. So now he doesn't have to have glasses anymore. But it's kind of like...

He's like a renaissance, and he seems to be pretty excited about everything. He's reinvented himself. He has. But I was impressed. I was just impressed by his. Now, I hadn't been on his podcast lately. Oh, I've been on it a few times. Yeah, he's had a take in over there, too, so he's doing great. What was your experience like with that, Jace? How'd it go when you were on there? You know, it was just a meandering experience.

bunch of topics that nothing connected but at the end of the day i was extremely entertained just and i was on there so uh i thought it was i thought it was good you know they the few times i've been on there they get to the end and i think they feel guilty about the nonsensical nature of what they've been talking about so they're like okay give us something spiritual

It's like somebody on your show trying to do something funny. You know, you just got to, okay. But I think Si through that has gotten really good at, one, I think studying his Bible. I was really impressed. Well, what I love about having Si on our podcast is Si loves studying the Bible. And he loves talking about Bible study. Because I get it all the time. When I preach, I mean, he'll usually call me.

at some point within a day or two after a sermon and want to go through it with me. And I love that. Cause I'm like, I know no matter who's out there in the audience, I know size is going to be with me, you know, and he's going to want to talk about that. So I think that's why it's enjoyable having him on here. Well, now he's had this epiphany for years. He's always said he didn't want to speak. So like when he does events, he might tell a story or they may, uh, he, he, he came out and did our faith family freedom, uh,

And I wish I would have listened to what they did, but I was doing my own thing. But I think they did Bible trivia, which Missy said, oh, it was great. But I don't even know how you do Bible trivia. What did Cy just get up with a microphone and they ask him questions or was he asking? He may have been asking the trivia questions to the audience, which would have been fun. That's what I would have done.

He needs to read the Ten Commandments because there is a commandment that says, thou shalt not steal. And the last time he was on the podcast, he stole a piece of valuable metal that literally has my name on the back. I thought he was kidding. I thought the whole thing was a joke. Now he walked out and

I don't know. I called the very why would you why would you think I was kidding about that? That's right. I was like, is it what it is? Because I've noticed something. I gave it to Bill and side. They never left this old style patriarch system where you respect your elders. And when they say they get a percentage of whatever you're going to do, I'm taking this block of silver in your honor. That means you just lost your silver.

The percentage they took out was 100%. So his take was- But only 25% of what came here, see? So that's the difference. I really think Si thinks that you should feel good about that. I do too. He's going to say, look, look at what my nephew- This is my nephew. Did for me. Did for me. It's got his name on it right there. Oh, I'm going to tell you right now, Zad, this will make him feel better. That's going in the middle of a pot in a poker game.

within the next six months. I hope I'm there. Look, Si did so well the other day. I didn't even tell you. Now, look, Si's almost 80 years old.

And he's had what? Open heart surgery. Well, the night before he hosted a poker game, the night before we did those podcasts that I was at and did quite well, by the way. But I didn't want to bring that up because I was feeling bad for Si because I thought, I mean, this dude stayed up all night and now he's here and is showing no sign. And left here and went and did his podcast.

Yeah. I mean, he did three podcasts. Pretty impressive. Which is pretty impressive because we do this all the time in two or two. But I think he's had this epiphany that now he wants to speak about Jesus. And so he's actually lining up in a few events. And we actually talked about that. Me and Cy, because I said, look, I was always the same way. My biggest fear was public speaking or just...

being out there. I've told many times, you know, I walked out of speech class in the ninth grade because I thought we were going to try to debunk a lot of this English. I mean, I thought we were going to debunk a lot of our English language tendencies as rednecks. Yeah. I thought, oh, they're going to help me

learn how everybody else in the real world is speaking and speech. Right. Because a lot of people don't understand, especially some of our fringe people like Godwin, you know, half of what Godwin says, I have no idea what the word is. And he's been on the podcast recently too. I know. But when they said, no, this is about you getting up in front of an audience and speaking, I'm like, I'm out. I will never do that.

And so Si's always kind of felt the same way. He doesn't want to do that. But I think through all this Bible study and kind of our theme in Ephesians, getting to know Jesus better, I think he's realized this is not about us. Anybody can do this. And so he's really pursuing that now. Well, you know, he and I used to do some events together before.

on back when the show was going on. And so he loved doing it with me because like he let me kind of bring the, you know, the glue and the coherence to our conversations, but I knew how to bring out the best inside. So I would just kind of interview him and then we would do it together and it worked out really well. But now he's got to where, yeah, you're right. He's on his own. Well, I think that's a sign of the Holy Spirit that we were talking before we started today about the role of the Holy Spirit. But, you know,

There's a passage in John 16 that talks about the Spirit when Jesus would send the Spirit. I mean, that whole section is about him sending the Spirit, which in turn makes Jesus' presence known. We become like Jesus. We have his Spirit. And the Spirit's primary function in a human being is declaring Jesus, is pointing to Jesus. That was what...

Jesus said himself, and that's what he does. I mean, and then you see the fruit of it.

Which are all these things that Jesus did while he was on the earth. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, good. And Jempa's kind of like that too. He never, he's always been super afraid to get in front of audience, but he figured out that he had an opportunity because of our show and because of who he was. And so he just kind of, you know, asked God to deliver him from that fear. And now he'll get up and speak or share his story. You know, it's interesting, Jase, I was in, um,

When I was in, I took speech in college at, back then it was NLU and I was working for the church. So I was teaching a couple of Bible classes a week. And so I was very comfortable up front, but I was in this class. So I'm probably in my early thirties and I'm in a class with a bunch of 20 year olds that are in college. And so you take speech with them. Well, it's painful.

to listen, you know, because they don't know anything, number one, and they're trying to, but, you know, they're trying to teach them how to put some thoughts together and speak. So listening to it is terrible. But my problem is I, who was very adept at speaking, because I did it all the time, but my problem was taking what they told me to do and putting it into five minutes. You know, the speech couldn't be over five minutes. And if you went over five

It went off your score. Oh, I'd have failed. So I want to make it like a B in the class instead of an A. And there's no doubt everybody in the class knew I was the best speaker in the group because I did it all the time. But I still couldn't make an A because I couldn't. Well, the gifts are sprinkled out among the people of God, Ephesians, living as children of light. Well, to make a point of that, you would have to just stay with it and accord us with the truth.

It's in Jesus. Put on the new self, created to be like God, true righteousness and holiness in a very sinful world. If you're involved in what I am speaking of right here, oh, it's a bone to be chewed. Yeah. But God did give us, I think, a pretty good outline. You got to remember Ephesians 4. I don't think probably it wasn't, wasn't, uh,

Living as children of light. In other words, that was just whoever, when they looked at these texts, probably living as children of light is not in there. You know, as you get past infancy, speaking the truth in love, surely you've heard of him, Jesus, and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that's in Jesus. It's showing you

How to operate in a very sinful world, doing the right thing and taking the right steps and putting Jesus in front of people where they can say, he's forgiven me of all my sin. Yeah. And he's going to raise me from the dead. Yeah. You're on it. Yeah. Well, if you just approach it that way, you end up living like Jesus did.

You just stay with what he recommended. You make a good point because you don't have to be gifted. You don't have to be some kind of scholar. No, you don't have to. It's not a gift to be a child of light. All you got to do is shine. That's right. I mean, it's in you. That's right. So the work is there. And there are some people that then are children of light that have specific gifts that they function with, like you said in Ephesians 4. Yep.

So any of us has the opportunity to share what God has done in our lives. And I always say, people say, well, you know, I don't have a story like yours. He said, you don't need one like mine. You just need the one, you just need what God did in you. I mean, like every one of us have been blessed by what Christ has done in us. Your faith has saved you and you live as Jesus lives.

lived, you say you're on your way to redemption. Stay with it and just point to Jesus no matter what anybody says. Just say, I follow Jesus Christ. You ever thought about him? And go into what he's done for us, is doing now, and he will do in the future. It's all covered. Yeah, no, that's exactly right. It comes from voices like Cy. You think, well, you know, I don't listen to that old guy. Might ought to pay attention to what he says sometime.

Well, look. You're talking about evidence that there's a God? Oh. The fact that, because, you know, Si's notorious for arguing. The fact that he surrendered at some point, because a lot of times Si'll just take an opposing argument, not that he believes in it, but just to argue with you. Yep. You know, and then at the end of the day, he might change his mind.

But I think it's incredible. In all of that, there's one hope when you recall. There's one Lord. Jesus has one faith. He died for you. He was buried and raised from the dead. There's one baptism. It's simple what it is. Go to the creek. Go to the river. Be baptized. Seal the deal. God and Father of all, just one. He's over all, through all, and in all. If you get that on right, I don't care how...

mentally, how much mental faith is needed. You don't have to be a rocket scientist. In fact, most of the things that God requires of us is not rocket science anyway. Right. It's just not there. So, you know, Lisa and I have been dealing with this, her breast cancer situation, and she's doing amazing. God has really blessed her. But one of the things you realize when you go through something like this is

Whether you have insurance or not, there's a lot of medical bills that just come your way you've got to deal with. It's not cheap to be able to get great care. And so we've really been appreciative of this idea of medical sharing.

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I think you're seeing that even in a, not necessarily, we think about the ultimate story, which is the story of Jesus and how he redeems us. But let's face it. You look at like the,

J.D. Vance, who was just picked to be President Trump's running mate as a VP, what's so remarkable about this young man, because he's only 39, is that his story. I mean, he became famous way before he was a senator. Now he's running for vice president of the country. Yep. Because of a story that...

that he told, and he told it quite well in a book that later became a movie, about someone who was transformed out of something very, very difficult into something very successful. But that's the story of Jesus. That's the transformational story that we all have. We all come from a situation where in sin we're dead, and he makes us alive. So, I mean, look at that. The reason people are drawn to that. You don't have to be a genius. You don't have to be a genius.

Just be a follower. Simply follow. Trust in the Lord. Reach out to your neighbor. And it all boils down to when you're getting done, you say, well, what do you do to get out of here alive? Just be like God. Do what he says. Right. That's exactly right. It's transformational, which is powerful. I was thinking about I got...

No less than 40 texts when J.D. Vance was...

that he was going to be the nominee for vice president. And everybody said congratulations to me because apparently we're like, he's my doppelganger or I'm his doppelganger. I'm not kidding. And I'd never heard that, but I had like 40 texts. My phone was just like, what in the world? What do you think about the vice president? Why are you asking me? Because you look just like him. And I mean, I'm kidding. It's 44.

40 texts. I got about that. Show how detached I am from the political world. I went, who? I had never heard of him. I went and looked at him. I mean, I'd read that book. Well, let's see if you look like him. Yeah, they could pass. You know what? There is some similarities. Let's see it.

Yeah. We got a picture of him pulled up here. I think his face is a little more round than yours, but yeah, it's similar. Now that he's got the beard and you got the beard. He's got the beard. He grew up in the hillbillies. Well, he needed to have the beard because he took two baby face from before. I think that was why. Yeah, y'all do look similar. It's kind of a. Matty's got it a side by side. Like a pass for brothers. Yeah, look at there. There's the side by side we're looking at. Matty, you had to put that together and put it on the podcast.

Maybe you can be as...

stunt double if... Had you read the book, Zach? Because I just ordered a copy of it, which, by the way, is hard to find right now. He's fixing to sell a bunch of new books. But it was years ago. And then there was a movie that... Ron Howard directed the movie about it. Yeah. That was way before he was even interested in politics. Yeah, this was way back when. And I don't even know anything about his spiritual background or if he's... Oh, so he wasn't a career politician? No. No.

He was a – Well, that's probably why Trump picked him. Yeah, he was a businessman. He went to Yale. He's a lawyer, and he's married to an attorney as well. And I don't think he ever really necessarily was going to get in politics. I started to see – the first time I saw him, he was on Tucker Carlson.

back several years ago, just talking about the movie and the book and all this. And he had an interesting, even me listened to him way back then. I think he was in the Marine Corps. He was a Marine? Yeah. Well, no wonder, Trump. This is all making sense. Y'all not putting all these pieces together? Oh, sure. Trump's in court every other week. He's like, boy, I need a lawyer. And then people are attacking him. He's like, let me get a Marine. Okay, you're hired. Hey.

And he's a MAGA guy. He believes in America. Well, we cleared that up for everybody. He was an MAGA. He was actually an anti- He was anti-Trump. He was a self-proclaimed never-Trumper when he first kind of came. Really? Oh, big time.

Which is interesting because they say Trump holds a grudge and never goes back. Not at all. Not true. He was bad-mouthing Trump. Yeah. Trump talked it over with him, said, you're the kind of man I'm looking for. And there he is. Where are y'all getting all this information? Oh, it's out there, Jason. You just got to know where to look. On the news, Jason. While y'all were watching the news, I was studying my Bible.

I found the text I was referring to earlier. It's John 16, 12, when he said, and he had just said in verse 7, I tell you the truth, it is for your good that I'm going away, because he was talking about going to the right hand. Unless I go away, the counselor will not come to you, but if I go, I will send him to you. But in verse 12, he says, I have much more to say to you

More than you can now bear. But when he, the spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own. That's the point I was trying to make. Yep. He will not speak on his own. He will speak only what he hears and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will bring glory to me.

by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. So that's why I said his number one function, the reason that's why I made that statement, is to declare Jesus, to point to Jesus. So when we have the Spirit, that's why we do that. That's why we declare Jesus. And you have all these texts that go in with it because it's very confusing. You remember that text in Galatians 5?

that says something about the spirit of his son. Well, if you read to kind of get the context in 326, it says, you're all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourself with Christ. There's neither Jew, Greek, slave, free, male or female. And so then he goes on to say in verse four, but when the time had fully come, God sent his son born of a woman, born under the law to redeem those under the law

that we might receive the full rights of sons. Because you are sons, God sent the spirit of his son into our hearts. The spirit who calls out father. So we're no longer a slave, but a son. And since you are a son, God has made you an heir. So you say, well, what's the point? Well, you read that. And then you read like 1 John 4, where it says, verse 12,

No one has ever seen God, but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete. We know that we live in him and he in us because he has given his spirit. It's the spirit that is pointing to himself, which is Jesus, but the spirit is taken kind of like Jesus did when he became a human.

a servant role in that he's not making claims about himself. I mean, the Spirit is God also. My point is, so then when you get down to 1 John 4 and verse 16, if you keep reading this, it says, so we rely on the love God has for us because the fruit of the Spirit is love. It says, whoever lives in love lives in God and God in him.

Here's the point I wanted to make. In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment. And then there's this phrase, because in this world, we are like him, because we have God's spirit, the spirit of Jesus. So it becomes just like when Jesus was on the earth and he was going around doing the things he was doing by the power of the spirit.

And now we have the same spirit as Jesus is exalted at the right hand of God. Yeah. That's why a lot of times it's very confusing in the Bible where it says Christ lives in you. Right. You're like, well, I thought the spirit lives in me. And you're like, yes. Right. Because it's the spirit of Christ. Well, Christ bodily is at the right hand of God, but his spirit is connecting. So in Ephesians, because I was trying to get to Ephesians. So then you see why he says we're connected.

the body of Christ. We have his spirit in our bodies individually, but collectively to become the spiritual nation of God. You have to wade through them all, 1 John 4. Do not believe every spirit.

but test the spirits, see whether they're from God or not, because many false prophets have gone into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God. Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. God did become flesh and die on the cross, was buried and raised from the dead. Get that one on straight. If somebody tells you something different, don't pay any attention to it.

Jace, you ever been someplace where you didn't have good cell phone coverage? Well, as a man of the wilderness and a guy who likes to fish, that is a constant problem. But I just roll with it.

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That's the point that y'all brought up. You know, when you talk about J.D. Vance, he basically surrenders by being a vice president because he's it's, you know, Trump is running for president. And so he's not J.D. Vance, not going to start going around saying, well,

you know, vote for me. He's going to say, vote for Trump. He's basically kind of how the Holy Spirit operates in us. The Holy Spirit is pointing people to Jesus. And so you're taking a more servant role, which, you know, forget the politics, the overarching theme here, it goes back to what we talked about in Genesis 3, when the evil one tempted Jesus,

the first two humans, he was saying, you know, if you eat of this, you'll be like God. And that's a principle that you're going to see that we weren't designed to be God. There's one God. Your point, Phil, on Ephesians 4. Yep. We're to be servants. We're not good at being gods. Just look at the earth. Right. What happens when a human thinks he's a god? Huh.

Nothing good. Nothing. So I think that's our lives as Spirit-filled people is a reflection of the love of God and His interaction or what they call the dance with Him being Son and Holy Spirit. Because you see the Son and the Holy Spirit taking a role.

as a servant to relate to us how we can live eternally with God. You have to wrap your head around this to see. And it's not easy because they're distinctive and yet they're one. I was thinking about the picture of when Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist and you get that glimpse in that moment of the differences in the Father, Son, and the Spirit.

You see all three. You heard the voice of the Father. You see the Spirit. In this case, it said it looked like a dove. It descended upon Jesus. It fell on him. And then you have Jesus Christ, this man who's also God, who was there and standing in the water. So you see in that moment the distinctiveness of the three, but at the same time, they're all unified in what their purpose was and who they are. You hear the Father say,

This is my son whom I will please. So I always it's been helpful for me to think about the different roles inside the Godhead, the roles, the father, son and spirit as this. And I didn't come up with this. This is kind of standard teaching and probably any seminary that that the role of the father is he is the planner of salvation. He plans the whole thing. The role of the son is he accomplishes it.

And then the role of the Spirit is He applies it to us. And so, like, you think, like, when Jesus said, not my will, but yours be done, you know, when He's here on earth and He's, Jesus is actually working everything that Jesus did. He relied on the power of the Holy Spirit in order to accomplish what He accomplished. He's relying, because, you know, Jesus in His incarnate state, there were things that He didn't know in His incarnation, right?

In his bodily form, he did not know when they said, when's the end of time is going to happen? And he says, that's only for the father. I don't know. He knows that. And so he's limited in self-limiting himself in body. And Christ has two natures, which is a whole bigger discussion. But

But when you read his words in John 14 through John 17, when he's talking about the coming of the spirit, the way that he describes it, Jesus is he's basically saying that the spirit is going to he's going to be the person inside the Godhead who's going to convict you about your sin.

And he's going to be the one that will convict you about righteousness. And he's going to be the one that's going to convict you about judgment. That's John 16. He's going to be the one that's going to make what's mine known to you. He's going to be the one that is going to deliver you into all truth. Well, what is the truth that he's going to deliver us into? Ultimately, it's the truth of who Jesus is. Well, who's Jesus?

the Son of God who was sent by the Father to die for our sins. And so you see it all working together. And I think where we get into trouble with trying to understand who God is, is we either try to make Jesus the same person as the Father or the Spirit, which is not biblical and is a heresy, or

We try to separate them so much that they're not one in their being and their essence. And it is difficult. But I think that's why the scripture says you can't compare God to anything. There's no comparison that we can come up with. So God's like that because why? Because God is...

self-referential. He doesn't refer to anything to describe himself. In fact, I think Jace or somebody mentioned in the last podcast, Jesus, what does he call himself? I am. He's the great I am. He doesn't refer to himself by giving you something that he's like because he's self-referential. And that's a big thing we've got to understand about who God is.

Yeah, I think that's the theme, though, in Ephesians, why he said, you've been given this Holy Spirit as a deposit, guarantee your inheritance. But then in the next two verses, he says, I pray that you may know him better, because that's his job. His job is to point you to Jesus. So when you meet people who seem to have figured out what the Bible is for and that it is about Jesus, we talked about this last podcast. Well, that's the Holy Spirit.

doing that. Yeah. You know, and so when you look at God's plan overall, you realize like when you read that passage in Peter where he said he's not wanting anyone to perish, but what's that verse say? Everyone to come to everlasting life. Yeah. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Uh, it's, it's like that quote that was, uh, somewhere out there that talking about a guy saying, I always thought, you know, once he came to the Lord that God wouldn't forget me, but he's like, but once I had kids, I realized he can't forget me. He's not going to give up on me because we kind of see it in our own lives where if God is love,

he's not going to abandon this and say, oh, well, that didn't work. Like it was an experiment or something. I made the garden. It was all good. No. And that's where I think you see the nature of God being Jesus and the Holy Spirit and how that functions together. Well, he came up with a plan in human history and the future for humans that could redeem human beings and make it even more

where you could live forever with God, but not only that, but have a book that could reveal that to you. And you're like, oh, because I think it's hard for people to wrap their head around what this book is about a lot of times. And you make a good point. All humanity...

In creation, God looks at that in love. God looks at every person in love. But only some regain their rights as sons and daughters. That was the word you used a minute ago in Galatians 4. Full rights as a son, the sonship. And how do you do that? By the Holy Spirit living in you. That's what differentiates you. And I love that you mentioned that. The verse Jason just mentioned was 2 Peter 3, 9.

You should go look it up if you're taking notes on the podcast. But that verse shows me the heart of God. What is his heart? What does God want? What does he want? I mean, that's a good question that we should ask. And thankfully, the Bible tells us the word here in 2 Peter 3, 9 says that the Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient towards you, not wishing.

that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. Or the NIV says that God is not wanting anyone to perish, but what does he want? Everyone to come to repentance. I love that because that gives us the heart of who God is and what does God want. And I think that when we start to examine the character of God, I mean, we have to remember what Chase just said and Al too, that at the core of what God's wanting is love,

And to love his people and for his people to love him. And that's what the spirit, that's what he's ultimately revealing. And I was thinking about a conversation we had after the last podcast and what we've now termed the after podcast podcast that I don't think is recorded, but we should record that. But you guys were talking about when Phil left the church in Luna.

And what was the reason why you left? I think that's important because we grew up in a tradition that said that the Holy Spirit only speaks to us through the written word and through the Bible, which is he does speak to the Bible because the Bible is inspired. But the Holy Spirit, you read John 14 through John 17. He's clearly speaking to our hearts as well in this conviction. And I thought that was interesting that you guys were having that conversation with

Years ago, 30 years ago. It was almost 40. Well, it was. It was. It is worthy that we're going down the road. You're driving the vehicle within weeks of the gospel being preached to one politician.

When you look at it, that day was right along. He was asking about the new birth and all. He was talking about Trump, yeah. That right there, that happened. You saw it and I did too.

No, I was thinking that was spot on, is that's why we do what we do, because you never know who you're going to have an opportunity to talk to. I want to mention a text. Jace had read John 16, 12 through 15 earlier, talking about the idea that the Holy Spirit

He says he's when he comes, he's the spirit of truth and he will guide you into all truth. That verse you read earlier, Jase. And I thought about something he said later in that same sort of he's praying now when he get over to John 17. But listen to the wording here, which shows you so much about the work of the spirit. He says in verse 15, my prayer. This is Jesus praying to the father.

My prayer is not that you take them out of the world, talking about the disciples, but that you protect them from the evil one.

To your point, Dad, there are spirits out there at work in those who are disobedient as well as the Holy Spirit. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Talking about the disciples. And check this out. Sanctify them. And the word means set apart to make holy. Sanctify them by the truth. Your word is truth.

As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. For them, I sanctify myself that they may be truly sanctified. And the reason I want to read that is because that word sanctify, we see it in the epistles and it's always attributed to the work of the Holy Spirit. The sanctifying work of the Spirit in 1 Thessalonians 5, this idea that the Holy Spirit, that's what he does in us. He guides us into truth.

and he sets us apart to make us holy, gives us rights to son that Jason read earlier in Galatians 4. But you see here that Jesus clearly squares that up, that that's him.

And the spirit, his spirit in us that gives us that ability to understand what truth really is. So I can see why you would get off base if you didn't understand the way the flow works. Well, you look at it, if you read John three, I think it's a great text to understand how this relates to the kingdom, which we talk about a lot on the podcast.

Our understanding and our entrance into the kingdom of God, Jesus said, it comes from the Spirit. When he's talking to Nicodemus, and Nicodemus basically says, let me pull it up here. He says, you got to be born again. How can I be born when I'm old? He said, truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

And Nicodemus said to him, well, how can a man be born when he's old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born, which is actually, think about the graphic nature of what Nicodemus is asking here. And Jesus answers, truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. And I think this is important, particularly because we're in an election season right now, and there is a temptation. And I may get flack for saying this. I don't really care. You cannot conflate the GOP with the kingdom of God. It's not the same thing. It is not the same. I mean, you cannot conflate the two. And I think what happens sometimes is we want to latch on to these rival kingdoms on the earth.

And we think that these somehow this is going to save us. And I think what Jesus is saying here now, that's that's all get involved. Go do what you're going to do there. But that is not the kingdom. Like that is like the kingdom is not in. I'm not saying the kingdom is not in it. I'm just saying that that you can't you can't confuse the two. The kingdom of God is way more expansive and its way it's its agenda is.

is an agenda of sacrifice. It's an agenda of the cross. It's an agenda of laying down your life. It's an agenda of the first becoming last, and those who want to receive will actually give, and those who want to live will actually die. It's a completely upside-down kingdom, and I think that you can't

understand something so seemingly bizarre because it is seemingly bizarre without a revelation from the Holy Spirit who reveals the beauty and the wonder and the transcendent nature of the kingdom to us. I think the Spirit's key to all of it. No, there's no doubt about that. And even in John 3 when I had mentioned this before about when heavenly was used as an adjective here

He went on to say in verse 12, I've spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe. How then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven, the Son of Man. And he goes on to say in 14, so when the Son of Man must be lifted up that everyone who believes on him may have eternal life. He's already planting that seed of what was going to happen post-resurrection.

him ascending to the Father and the Holy Spirit being poured out. He also makes a reference in John 7. We read this a lot, but I think it's a real interesting verse. In verse 37, when it says, On the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as the Scriptures has said,

streams of living water will flow from within him. By this, he meant the spirit whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time, the spirit had not yet been given since Jesus hadn't yet been glorified. So that's why when he gets to John 14 through 16, he starts specifically saying what this counselor, this spirit's going to do. And if you're wondering why we're talking about this,

Because when we get to the end of Ephesians 2, there's this very profound sentence that says, as members of the body of Christ, we become the temple of the living God with his presence by the Holy Spirit.

collectively. So it's a powerful statement. But when you start going back to the Old Testament, because right now we're just giving you some verses about the Holy Spirit. We have the Holy Spirit. What does that mean? But just in reference to this John 7, there's two passages that come to mind. One is in Isaiah 32, and he gives this

prophecy of like there's a famine in the nation of Israel and the land becomes filled with briars and thickets and it's painful. And just imagine the earth having no rain and everybody starving to death and it's a dust bowl. There's briars and there's thickets. He paints this brutal picture. And I'm going to read this in Isaiah 32.

Verse 14 says, the fortress will be abandoned, the noisy city deserted. The citadel and watchtower will become a wasteland forever. It will only be a delight for donkeys in the pastures. And then verse 15 says, till the spirit is poured upon us from on high.

And the desert becomes a fertile field, and the fertile field seems like a forest. That was one I thought of, that what an illustration. When you put that into a personal application of you, I mean, before you encounter Jesus and get God's Spirit, I mean, he's giving you these pictures of what your life looks like.

It's like a famine in a wasteland where it hasn't rained. Because you know what happens when that rain comes? Living water. It produces life. You're recreated.

Crops burst forth. Almost immediately. I mean, it's like Jill bought these ferns for the house, and she's like, oh, you don't have to water these ferns. These are some hybrid. I'm like, Jill, there's no such thing. She's like, I bought these from the lady. She said, you don't have to water. I said, let me tell you, it's a plant. It has to be watered. So under her direction, she watered them like the lady said, and guess what happened to the ferns?

They literally turned brown and started to shrivel up and die. And I said, now I'm, so I took the ferns and soaked them in a big pot in a water. And within 24 hours, it was like life came back. And that's the picture that's being pointed there. And by the way, Jace, same picture in John chapter four, when, when the lady at the woman at the well says, where do we worship on the mountain or in Jerusalem? You know, we're Samaritans. We up there on the mountain. You guys are in Jerusalem. Where do we worship? And he said, I don't know.

A time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. Going back to your Ephesians passage about the temple being in us now. You Samaritans worship what you do not know. We worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.

That is directly—and by the way, that's linked to him saying that if you drink the water I have to give you—

It'll be a spring in you welling up to eternal life. So there's this idea of the connection of the water and life and the spirit. The spirit is that spring in us that wells up to eternal life, and it's just spewing life out of us. So when you get to that Ephesians 2 passage, it says, what does it mean to work in the temple? That means that God planted a spring in you. His name is the Holy Spirit, and he's feeding you water so that life may emerge out of you.

Yeah, and that goes along with the second one I was going to give in Ezekiel 36 and 37, where, you know, one, you had this, the idea of a famine and barren land. And here it was, you remember this famous picture of the Valley of Dry Bones, and there's just everything spooky that we imagine going in a cave and seeing a bunch of dead bones or

Hollywood has all kinds of... It's always trying to make it all look spooky and scary, but it's actually real because at some point,

We're all headed to that mode of existence. But in Ezekiel 36, he says the same type of thing. I will give you a new heart. I will put a new spirit in you. I'll remove from you a heart of stone. Then he goes on to say, when I pour out my spirit, you will be able to follow my decrees. And so then he gives this picture of the Valley of Dry Bones, and he sees this image of life all of a sudden forming and changing.

It's a new creation. And my point is, it's so easy when you're reading over here in Ephesians and trying to explain how the Holy Spirit is going to work in your life. But it's giving you pictures all along the way. When you look deep into your life and wonder what the problem is, you know, if you're outside of Jesus.

You're the equivalent to these barren wastelands and these cemeteries with bones. That's the picture he's giving you. God can make you something new that is so spectacular.

It's like the worst possible scenarios that you can think of that can happen on the earth. That's the equivalent of what happens to you when you come to Christ and get his spirit in you. I was thinking John 7, Zach, to your point you had said that Jason just described. He says in 737, on the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, if anyone is thirsty,

Let him come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as the scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him. And now John tells us what that means. By this, he meant the spirit.

Yeah. Wow. Whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up till that time, the spirit had not been given since Jesus had not yet been glorified. Yeah, I read that one. Yeah, I know. That's what I'm saying. It makes sense when you understand that when Jesus said the spirit is a seal, or the Bible says that the spirit is a seal, a deposit,

that guarantees our inheritance, right? I've read that a thousand times, but if it's a seal, if it's a deposit, if it's a guarantee, then the question you should be asking yourself is,

Do I have the spirit? Yeah, I better make sure. Yeah. And number two, how do I know I have the spirit? And I think one of the ways, you know, you have the spirit is do you feel is there is there a life springing up out of you? Are you looking around your life and are you engaged in what Carl Truman calls death works?

Or are you engaged in what I think the Bible might refer to as a life work? What does the fruit look like in your life? And I think that that's what we're kind of striving towards is participating in his kingdom, experiencing the fullness of life, experiencing peace of mind, not...

become bitter, outraged, angry. I mean, there's a time for that, but man, that should not be the spirit in which we live. We need to live in not a spirit of, of, of dividing, but a spirit of, of, of, of,

Unimaginable love that we would embody how Christ loved us while we were still enemies. The Bible says Christ died for us. So can I love my enemy like that? Well, you can by the power of the Spirit, but that's the only way you're going to love your enemy. So Zach, you brought us back full circle to, I like that idea about the life works, because that takes us back to Ephesians 2, verse 10, which we're out of time. We're going to pick up there in the next podcast to get back to Ephesians 2, 11.

on our next Unashamed podcast. We'll see you there. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes. And for even more content that you won't get anywhere else, subscribe to BlazeTV at blazetv.com slash unashamed.