Ep 914 | Phil’s Wild-Eyed, Barefoot Run from the Law & Jase Is Accused of Turning into Si
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I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. We're excited about being here today with you guys. Zach, you've been monitoring the response. I've been getting several texts and emails from people around the country over Jason's

run in with the law. Apparently that episode has dropped. So I've been getting some interesting comments. What do you see? Give me the good, bad, and ugly. I have no idea what people think. Are they going to take you to court? Well, they're not going to take me to court. I'm summoned to go to court. If you don't pay the ticket, you got to go to court. So I'm going to court, which I will say, I tried to call the number where you pay the ticket.

And I was going to explain to them that I was going to go to court, but I kept getting the, this number is no longer in service. Maybe I should bring that up in court that I can't pay the ticket because the number you've given me is not functional. I'll give you the good, the bad, the ugly. And there's a little bit of everything. I would say probably 70% of the people who,

have sided with you, Jace, on this. But the problem is the 30% that have not, I think, are all law enforcement officers and have one of the guys has actually said he if he sees you, he will pull you over and give you a ticket for that. Yeah, just. But but maybe we need to change some legislation, you know.

Well, the best comment probably of all, and maybe the best comment I've ever seen on any of our podcasts ever. And I think this, I don't know how this is going to hit with you, Jace. I'm almost a little nervous to say that there was, there was a major, major breakthrough in our, our comment section. And one of the people said that Jace, let me read it. Jace is becoming uncle sigh. Yeah.

I mean, you wanted the good, the bad, the ugly. Where does that fall with you, Jace? According to the people, you are becoming... I would simply say on my behalf... Don't mind that. The brother of one... Yeah, what does yours take, Dad? Well, the brother of one... The father of the other. Yeah. But the bottom line is, you know,

There's more weightier, there's far weightier things to discuss than your strap is underneath your arm or on top of it. And there's an issue when you pay money. That's worth noting and looking at it and saying, ha!

Well, in my defense, I mean, that happened. This is not Silas' territory. Well, I appreciate it, Phil. Phil's trying to. But I don't mind. I mean, that happened. I was in the spirit of the moment. I was late. Then we do a podcast, you know. And I actually, I thought it was a good opportunity to get a warning. But look, he wanted to go all the way with it.

What do I do? I call a lawyer and the lawyer is like, Jace, I think you have a case. So here you go. Yeah. Well, that's what the people. And I will say this for our law enforcement listeners out there. We're very supportive of you guys in law enforcement. And Jace, in his defense, he never maligned this person. No. He didn't even mention his name. So I will venture to say, I mean, I have done numerous events.

events for our law enforcement and I'm all for it. You know, I just say in this moment, if you're quoting a statute that does not apply on the ticket that I'm giving, that I'm have been given,

We need to change legislation or give me a warning and say, go read the statute that I'm saying, because I didn't know that that was a law. Well, we say all that to say we appreciate your service. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I mean, I get it. Well, so, Jason, I got a thing in the mail last week from when I was in New Orleans with Lisa when she had her breast cancer surgery.

And apparently in the city of New Orleans, you don't even have to get pulled over by a police officer. They just have a camera that takes a picture of your license plate. And they said I was doing 24 and a 20. And so it's going to cost me 75 bucks.

I mean, I don't know whether I was or wasn't the things that I was, uh, and I'm going to pay it because I was four miles over now with a police officer probably to stop me for that. Probably not. And so, you know, sometimes you just have to go with the whole parking ticket situation to where I live, but yeah, I was listening or somebody told me this. I didn't hear it, but we had John Chris on the podcast a while back and he has been running an experiment, which I think this is brilliant.

on how much does it cost to pay the parking fee versus how many times you get busted and have to pay the ticket. And he has been keeping a running tally of this apparently, and it's cheaper than

To just get the ticket, pay the ticket that it is if you live in a place where you have to pay for parking and actually just so he doesn't have it. He doesn't pay. He never puts the coins in the in the machine. He just waits for the dice. But he's been keeping up with it. And he's actually from what I've been told, I haven't talked. I need to ask John about this. But from what I've been told, he is he's he's saving money by doing this.

But my whole point, I think you got to remember my point. I'm supposed to be preaching this Sunday, which I thought was last Sunday. And so I was studying the book of Hebrews because, Alan, I'm really not sure. What chapter did y'all read? Your Hebrews 9, 1 through 10 is your assigned text. I don't know where you're going, but that's...

Hebrews 9. Well, the reason that's not ringing a bell to you, Zach, is because when you read Hebrews 9, 1 through 10, that's probably the least preached about section in the New Testament, or it's among the top. And so I was trying to practically think, well, how do you talk about the sacrifices under the old Jewish system, Judaism? Yep.

How do you apply that in a 30-minute sermon to, you know, obviously being a shadow of Jesus offering a better sacrifice? I mean, that is the message. But I'm thinking about this. And when I looked into the book of Leviticus and Hebrews, I'm like, you keep seeing accidental sins, unintentional sins. They would do sacrifices to prepare the actual tabernacle for

to send a representative to encounter the presence of God. And then all of a sudden this happens. And I'm like, in the moment, I'm like, well, this is an accidental, unintentional breaking of the law. So it just came out of me in the moment. Because that's where you were. I'm studying this in the word. And I'm like, wait a minute, I'm not guilty. And he's like, what?

Well, you're telling me I didn't wear the seatbelt properly, but I didn't know that was a sin. I get it. If that's what it says, I will pay the tax. I said that over and over. But he was. But you're in Hebrews 9. What is it? 10 through. 1 through 10. 1 through 10.

It's about the earthly tabernacle and the earthly temple. This is the, I'm just reading through it. This is exactly what we've been talking about. Well, which is what I thought. It's right in Jesus wheelhouse. He's trying to, he's like, how do I do the whole big bite of the apple? Look, I get it. I just had Hebrew seven and I had to do Melchizedek.

In 30 minutes. I mean, it's not easy. I mean, to be able to... I need to go back and listen to your sermon series on this. You're just going straight through, expository through the book of Hebrews? Yep. Well, I feel like I'm going to just give an overview of Hebrews 8 and 9 because...

Life is too short. I'm not going to get bogged down in what was happening in the sacrifice. I mean, if you'd have walked up on the tabernacle out in the wilderness and you got a couple, one goat's dead and there's some blood being sprinkled and we're fixed to send somebody in here and then another goat's running out carrying the sins, you'd think, well, this is like a modern day sci-fi movie playing out. And we would have probably all ran. Yeah.

You know, if you weren't, if you didn't believe that, you're like, whoa. It kind of made me think about when I visited Phil as a kid. They put a little bit of that in the movie, The Blind. But I remember visiting you when you were running from the law and you were living out in the woods. I'm probably sure that you don't remember that. You didn't look like you were clicking, you know.

On all cylinders. I mean, that was before Jesus, you know. But I just remember looking at just this big pile of carcasses, like in front of this little cabin without electricity. Because really what that was was survival. You were running from the law, you were living in the woods, and you were just eating what you killed. But it looked like some kind of weird...

sacrificial system going on, you know, wild-eyed, barefooted man comes out. And I was like backing up, you know, it just looked eerie to me with the carcasses and all. And then there was another big pile of cans. But that's kind of where I went to. But what Jesus brings...

It's so much better, but kind of making that transition seems difficult. But I thought what happened to me is really a good illustration of what that is. I mean, you can be trying to do what's right. I mean, we get it. We're all lawbreakers as far as God's law. We're all sinful.

Bad things have happened in all our lives based on decisions we made. But just trying to function in a world with laws, even when you're trying not to break them, becomes difficult. Yeah. You know, I mean, I said I'm guilty. I did not know that that was against the law.

All I can give you is my word, and here's the Bible. I got my hand on it. I thought as long as I had it fastened across my torso and everything was connected, I was good. So in verse 23 of Hebrews 9, it says, It was necessary then for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves were the better sacrifice than these. For Christ did not enter into

A sanctuary made by human hands. That's very reminiscent, by the way, of Paul's language in Acts 17 and Stephen's language in Acts 7 when he right before he stoned the temple built by man's hand. That was only a copy. So the sanctuary that was made by the human hands, the temple that we're talking about here was only a copy of the true one.

He entered heaven itself now to appear for God, for us in God's presence. So think about this idea of the presence being in the, in the temple, in the tabernacle. Uh, that's where God dwells, but that's a, that's a copy. So when you go back to Ephesians, uh,

I mean, this really is kind of the core or at least part of the core of the whole book of Ephesians. Verse 19, we've read it before in chapter two, read it again. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but your fellow citizens with the saints and the members of the household of God built on a foundation of the apostles and the prophets,

Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone in whom the whole structure being joined together grows into a holy temple. So that holy temple that he's speaking of here, that's not a copy. That's the real temple that the other temple was a copy of. In the Lord, in him, you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit. So that's going to be interesting. I think our Hebrew study is going to have you well prepared, Chase.

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Over 37,000 companies have already made the move. So we want you to check these guys out. By popular demand, NetSuite has extended its one-of-a-kind flexible financing plan for a few weeks. So head over to netsuite.com slash phil. That's netsuite.com slash phil. Check them out, netsuite.com slash phil. Well, that's what I was telling Al. I was like, well, I can't stay in the first 10 verses.

Or everybody leaves there bewildered, depressed. You see what I mean? I was like, I don't know who set up this, and I won't throw them under the bus, but I have to do an overview. If you don't get to Jesus in this...

What are we doing? I mean, I think we should teach a class on that if people are interested. Well, and that's the difference, Chase. Your approach is right, because if you had a class, you can take more time to develop out all those Old Testament thoughts. You don't in a 30-minute sermon. You don't. You can't do that. So you mentioned, you know, I was planning on reading the first verse of chapter 9 and then maybe 6 through 10, I think is interesting.

But then maybe skip down and pick up 14, where it says, how much more then will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death so that we may serve the living God? I really think that's the boom verse. And then just like Zach did, I was going to 23 through 28.

Because then I think you get into this whole new world. Because they called and asked me what my title was. And they said, Jesus is greater. And then what's your tagline? And I said, because it's a whole new world. Are you going to sing the song, Jay? Well, that's why they come up with those kind of cartoons. Because people look at what's going on on our earth. And they have this inner desire to.

For a new world. What can we do? Well, there's a lot to be said in that when you get to Ephesians 4, as a prisoner for the Lord, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you receive. That's pretty, I mean, the level, everything was, Jesus came,

Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, the entire thing is about Jesus becoming flesh, dying on a cross, being buried and raised from the dead, and we should view ourselves as a prisoner for the Lord. It's Ephesians 4 there, before he gets...

Well, he was a literal prisoner. Worthy of the calling you've received. You're like, hmm, man, what a eyeball of that one is.

Be completely in a world of sin. You know, I just added that. Be completely humble and gentle. Be patient, bearing with one another in love. And that's right before he says, look, there's one body. You're a member of it. Act that way. There's one spirit that you received to help you do it. Just as you were called to one hope because there's no other individual ever.

who pulled off what Jesus did on our behalf. One hope, you recall, one Lord, one faith, one baptism. The centerpiece is Jesus and Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, where he came, he kept bringing that up for all to see. All four, all four ends up with Jesus, his death, his burial, his resurrection,

And we are to be the same, the same way when they run up on us. I mean, it's a heavy burden. It is. As a prisoner for the Lord, that I'd urge you to live a life worthy of the God of. You're like a prisoner of the Lord. How can I be a prisoner of God? Within all these statutes that they tried to earn it,

That's obliterated, and your faith comes back to one individual who ever lived and continues to live to this very day, Jesus Christ.

I mean, over and over. He went over and over and over. Jesus died. I'm fixing to die. We're going up to Jerusalem. I've got to die. I've got to die. Three days I'll be raised from the dead. Hold on to that. And I mean, you can start in Matthew, and by the time you get to Ephesians, it's the centerpiece. And that's why the Apostle Paul is looking at it like one. It's a one shot, one individual deal, one lifestyle.

as a prisoner for the Lord, urged to live a life worthy of the calling you've received. The whole time Jesus was here, that's all he talked about was what was fixing to happen to him. And it did. Be completely humble. How in the world are you completely humble and gentle and patient and bearing with one another in love? Somebody said, oh, you did wrong. We've got a little violence going on here. We've got an accusation.

So say, how do you treat it? Just pay the fine or say, I did nothing wrong.

Yeah. So, Jace, I was going to bring this up before, and I hadn't brought it up till now. The brilliance of the Hebrew writer going back before is all the stuff dad was talking about in Jesus. Actually, faith has pointed to this all along. You know, Job is really interesting because the Bible says in Job 1 that he made sacrifices for

for his children just in case they had sinned without knowing it, which in Job is an ancient. So he's before Abraham for everybody. I mean, everybody pretty much agrees he's way back. So it's really interesting. Where would that concept come from for a man like Job? I mean, why would he think he needed to make sacrifices on behalf of his children just in case they had made a mistake?

That's how faithful he was. And look what happened to him. I mean, what happened to him was the evil one literally died.

Got after him at such a level and such a point. Oh, he he took me in because he was a good man. So I think, again, it shows you that concept from Hebrews to the point we're talking about is that all throughout human history, even before the law, before sacrifices were instituted as part of Israel's existence, the idea was belief in God and who he was was always stronger. That's the whole concept of Abraham.

And what he does, that was the concept behind the Kislev. Yeah, back to that Ephesians 4. I mean, there's just one body, one spirit, one...

Just as you were called one hope, you were called one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God. Well, that's all the information you picked up before you get to Ephesians. But by the time you get there, that's what it's saying. You have it, and that's pretty well the way to keep it right there. Because you know you've got the blood of Jesus on your side.

Well, when you get to Ephesians 4 and you have this whole idea of unity, Paul says, make every effort to keep the spirit of unity to the bond of peace. Yep. It's very much in line with the whole idea.

trajectory of what we've been arguing is the main one of the main purposes of the book of Ephesians is to unite all things in him things in heaven and things on earth and that's my point particularly Jew and Gentile in this case but it's really the idea is that God is bringing all things together and I love this idea of you're leaning in on this it's key to the whole

Bible is sacrifice that God accomplishes this through sacrifice. I was just pulled this up because a friend of mine is writing. He wrote a book and I was, he wanted me to read through it. And I thought this was so good. I mean, this is some of this stuff is really, in my opinion, groundbreaking, but yeah,

But he talked about this idea of dominion, you know, the cultural mandate, be fruitful and multiply, fill the earth, rule over. That's out of Genesis. He argues in this book here that the cross, he says, is the only way to fulfill the mandate. I had to chew on that for a second. But he goes on to say dominion.

Because we hear this idea of dominion, right? God created us to have dominion. But what is dominion from a biblical perspective? And he makes the point that dominion is the sacrificial service for others. It's not the control of others. It's the sacrificial service for others. And I think, man, that like God displays that.

in the cross. I think there's something in the cross itself that is so core to the nature of who God is, that he is a God that condescends and sacrifices for the ones that he loves. I think that's a core teaching throughout the book of Hebrews.

But I also think it's the unifying thing that Ephesians is built on as well as he's making this case for oneness. How do we bring in diverse people from diverse cultures that honestly are very much opposed politically and socially? How does God bring them together?

You keep Jesus as the model and you're on your way to recovery. Yeah, his sacrifice. He's a model. Jason, I don't know if you knew this or not, but the average person doesn't eat half of the recommended servings a day of fruits and vegetables. Were you aware of this fact? No, but I'm not shocked because, you know, when you go through the grocery store, you got the little...

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You see that in the idea of him washing the disciples' feet, in him standing accused and basically saying, this is why I'm here. So to your point, Zach, even everything leading up to the cross showed you this is the God of the universe who was submitting himself to sacrifice. And the way he did it shows you how we should live as well. Go ahead, Jace. What were you going to say? Well, I was just going to say, because I was thinking the same thing.

Zach was about the cross. You know, when John 10, when he said in verse 16 and 17, or verse 17, says, the reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down on my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. You know, why is he saying that? And I think in our world,

In the religious world, people so much want to say, well, Jesus had to die. And I wrote down a few thoughts about that. And Jesus' death was not so much about Jesus getting what we deserve, which I've said that many times. But when you think about it, it's God getting what he deserved. And based on that verse, which is this kind of love,

where his son is giving his life solely out of the love of every other human. And that's why when you read something like Hebrews 2.9, because you're uncomfortable when you hear that at first, but just think about God gives us life. We're humans. And what does God deserve? Gratefulness.

Yeah. You know, gratitude for having life and the earth and trust. I mean, this takes you back to the garden. You look at everything he gave Adam and Eve and he set the parameters. I don't think it was too much to ask. You work it. Let's live forever. We got one thing. Stay away from that tree because I want you to trust me when it comes to good and evil. And so what did God deserve in that? I think love and appreciation.

So when you read Hebrews 2.9, you see this same kind of idea where it says, but we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels. He humbled himself, sacrificed to Zach's point. Now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death so that by the grace of God, he might taste death for everyone. Well, that's a way more positive thing.

Thought by the grace of God, him humbling himself and sacrificing himself so that he might taste death for everyone. So my point is, I get it. God's wrath can be revealed in that. But the focus of it is love.

That that's the focus. But you got to remember that. Yeah, I agree. I just pulled this quote up from one of my favorite books, but, and I'm not saying I'm Eastern Orthodox or anything. I just love this book. But Alexander Spaven says that this in our perspective, going back to what you were talking about in the garden, he said, however, the original sin is not primarily that man disobeyed God. The sin is that he ceased to be hungry for him.

and for him alone, ceased to see his whole life depending on the whole world as a sacrament of communion with God. The sin was not that man neglected his religious duties. The sin was that he thought of God in terms of religion, i.e. opposing him to life. The only real fall of man is that, and I won't read this because it has some words that will get us distracted, but it's the idea that when he looked at that fruit,

And he ate the fruit for the sake of itself. He did not eat the fruit as a communion with God and then giving praise and thanksgiving back to God. And that's going back to your point about like it is. It's like God deserves our gratefulness. God deserves for us to be thankful and to actually live the life that we were created to live is to live in a spirit of thankfulness, not in a spirit of entitlement, but in a spirit of humility that we literally look at the father and we're like,

How gracious are you that you would even give us existence, much less the bread of life itself? Well, no, you think about everything in that quote you read, Zach. Remember, it was pleasing to the eye. It was desirable for gaining wisdom. Those are what we want outside of God. That's for us.

I want to know something more than God. I want to have pleasure that goes beyond what God's design for me is. And so you can see the trappings even in the mindset before the action was taken. And it's the same thing that continues to happen all these thousands of years later. Same thing, right? I mean, that's the thing. So I grew up thinking sin. If you would have asked me,

to define sin. I don't know if I would have had the ability to articulate what I'm about to say, you know, as a teenager and young adult, but now that I look back on it, I can tell you the way I view sin is,

was I thought sin was a religious commandment from God. And then somewhere in my brain and my psyche, I thought it was to test my loyalty to him, my devotion to him. And it was almost like an arbitrary list of commandments that God gave to meet that end. But to your point, and I think this, the Schmaiman's point is we, it's not that it's not that it is to eat that fruit.

is to believe that there is life outside of God. That's it. And that's what it was. And we do the same thing. When you think about this, your own sin that you've fallen into, what is, what is the nature of it? It's to say, I think there's life outside of God, autonomously from God, away from God. I think there's something out there. Cause that was the, the, the lie that the evil one told him was that, you know, that God doesn't want you to eat this fruit. Cause he knows that if you do,

There's you're going to be like him. And in other words, he's holding out on you. There's life over here and he doesn't want you to taste that life. He's not he doesn't have your best interest at heart. That's the nature of sin. Yeah, I think the question that comes up in people's minds is like, well, why did God move against sin? I mean, that's a good question. Did he get mad? Was this an apology? Was this a reboot? You know, oh, oh, no.

What's happened? What do you mean when you say move against sin? What do you mean? Well, I'm saying God created man, put him in the garden. Okay. Well, sin happened. So in that moment, I'm like, people talk about this. I mean, did God get mad? Why did he move? Because he did. He moved. I mean, in Genesis 3, 15, I think it's universally agreed by all scholars that you see the first sign of Jesus appear. Yeah.

that there's a plan that's going to happen when he was speaking to the woman. Yeah. I can go back and read that if I need to, but...

I will put enmity. Let's see. Yeah. He was addressing Satan and he says, I will put enmity between you and the woman. You will strike his heel. He will crush your head. Well, who's he talking about? He's definitely talking about Jesus. So I'm saying, why did he move? That was my question. So, and the reason I'm saying that, because so when you look where it came from, it basically came from a partnership between,

of the evil powers, specifically Satan, and humans wanting to put created things over the creator or their own idea of creation over trusting God. We all agree on that, right? Yeah. But sin is opposed to God. I mean, you have all these verses. Light can have no fellowship with darkness.

The ingratitude, the pride, the rebellion that all happened. Sin ultimately was a deal breaker with God because of who he is. And so I said all that to say, so God must somehow, from that point on, set himself up against sin. What he didn't create. He didn't create sin. He has to set himself up against sin. But he must be...

For the human who sinned. So that is the quandary that we're in. Is that possible? And I think it is because of the love of God for the human being by sending Jesus as a human to pay for the sins of the people. I think that's how you can set up a plan, the scheme of redemption, which is his plan, sending Jesus on earth.

to die for the sins, you're setting yourself up against sin while loving the human. And I was going to read the scripture to what you just said, because I had it pulled up here, Hebrews 4, 14, because we talked about this when you were talking about the heavenly realms a few podcasts back. Since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens,

If I'm not mistaken, that was that same word, the heavenly rounds. Jesus, the son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess, for we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way. So that's why I had to come here. Just.

just as we are, yet was without sin. Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need."

So to your point, that's exactly what the Hebrew writer is saying. Even the sacrifice and the understanding of why the sacrifice had to be there is what gives us confidence. Well, and I think going back to that passage in Ephesians 2, at the end of Ephesians 2, there's that – because this is the destination, I think we've got to remember –

The destination of all of this sacrificial system, the destination of the atonement, the destination of making all things new, bringing all things together, the oneness, all of it is the destination is verse 22 of chapter 2 in him.

you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the spirit. So when you think about the original position in the garden, pre-sin, that's what it was. It was oneness with God. It was being in the presence of God. What sin does is then sin says, we're going to choose life outside of God. We want to live autonomously and in God's grace, right?

He cast them out of the garden. That's another big point here. It was in his grace that he separated from sin. I mean, that to me is profound that God's actual separation from us because we're sinful is an act of grace because God's not going to let us live autonomously in the garden without his presence.

The definition of that, by the way, to live autonomously forever and ever and ever out of God's presence, Paul says to the church in Thessalonica, that that's hell. That's the definition of hell, being shut out from the presence of the Lord. So God's grace is not going to allow that. So then when you go like where we're at in Ephesians, where we left off at, I think we left off at verse 15, but he's making this case of this is what God wants to reveal to

To you. So when he says for this reason, because I've heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love toward all the saints, I do not cease to get thanks for you. Remembering you in my prayers that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the father of glory may give you.

The Spirit, and that's a capital S, the Holy Spirit of wisdom and revelation and the knowledge of Him having the eyes of your hearts enlightened

That you may know what is the hope to which he has called you. What's the hope? What's the riches of his glory? Glorious inheritance in the saints. It was the immeasurable greatness of his powers, powers toward those who believe it's, it's that we would dwell in the presence of God, that we ourselves will become a dwelling place in,

For God is to return back to the garden. We're tracking. So to continue, because that's exactly what I... I wrote down these notes because I wanted to be real clear on this, because I realize a lot of people have differing views on this. But just thinking of how God setting himself up against sin before humans, if he becomes a man who's innocent...

gives this sacrifice all of a sudden this starts making sense because it highlights love and I wrote this down could a great God set himself up against sin and yet redeem the sinner and we all know what sin does in our lives it becomes a part of us it shapes us it shapes our surrounding and it infects us it pollutes us it paralyzes us what God

brought is more than a status. We tend to focus on either we're forgiven, not guilty, Jesus on the cross, that made us forgiven, not guilty. But if you just leave it there, you're missing out one key thrust, which is where I wanted to get to at the end of the day. He offers a redeemed relationship to

So when you think about how to word that as far as atonement, sin, by what Jesus did on the cross, no longer disrupts our relationship with God. That's the whole problem. I mean, when you think, what is the Bible about? It's about Jesus, but it's also about the preservation of life itself with God.

So when we talk about going into the presence of God, sin is the ultimate deal breaker because our God has no sin or evil in his presence. He cannot coexist with it. So it's not that he's just offering us life in him and with him later because we've been deemed not guilty. He offers us life in him and with him now.

And that's why the Spirit is poured out into our hearts. But why is it now? It's now because He is life. And I think this is such a good point, Jace, because if you view this only through the lens of what we would call justification, although we believe that you're justified by Christ and His blood, but if that's where it begins and ends for you, then what happens is you will tend to view this whole thing as,

a list of rules that you break. So you've broken the rule and now you're out. And now you have to do some kind of magic password in the form of whatever, the sinner's prayer, a baptism, whatever your version of that is. And,

And now I'm good. But you're kind of missing the whole thing there. You're kind of missing the fact that, no, God is the prize. He is the source of life. Relationship with him is heaven. His presence is where it's at. It's a complete paradigm shift. And I don't know how we have victory over sin, at least the power of sin in our life. How do you beat temptation if you really believe that the sinful life is better?

Like, how do you ever really have victory? Are you just going to will that away? No, you're not going to will away that temptation in your life. If you believe that, that, that, that is, is, is where real fulfillment is. You're never, you're going to, you're never going to have true freedom. True freedom is to be able to do whatever you want and,

And it's wanting God. So it's ever like it's being able to to be in Christ. That's true. Freedom is to see him as the source of fulfillment. That's why he says, blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be filled. That's the point. You'll be filled if you hunger for righteousness. That's the whole point of the beatitude. Your feet fitted with the gospel of peace and down below that and the final words of Ephesians.

pray also for me that he's needing the help of the brothers that whenever i open my mouth words may be given me so that i will fearlessly make known

and rightfully so, the mystery of the gospel, for which I'm an ambassador in chains. Pray that I should declare it fearlessly as I should. Yeah. I mean, just it's critical. Well, the foundation he started off in Ephesians 1 and what we're all kind of focused on is when we read in verse 4, he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. And then there's those two words, in love.

He predestined us to be adopted as sons through Jesus Christ. When you get to verse 7, in him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins in accordance with the riches of God's grace.

that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. And so when you go to Zach's point, when you read Ephesians 2, 19 and 20, in him, because of that act of love, dealing with sin and loving the human and redeeming the human, you are now in a position to have that intimate, eternal relationship, which is why Jesus is at the right hand of God, right?

preparing the presence of God for our eternal dwelling. I mean, that's what it's about. It is a dwelling place with God that he has constructed by being crucified and presented as a sacrifice in love on our behalf. And he only had to do it once. You know, they were going through all these rituals and all these things. And what was happening? Unfaithfulness.

But now, by Jesus and what he did, it produces faithful people in an intimate relationship with God. So the reason I read all that and the reason I asked those questions like, well, what, did God get mad or is this an apology? It's all positive from Paul's writings. When you read Colossians 2, and I want to read this again, we read this before, but he's calling this a triumph.

In verse 13 and 14, it says, when you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. It is literally a new creation. You know, he had just talked about

the work he did in the power of God through your faith in him and in your baptism. He had just said that in verse 12. But watch what he says about the cross. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code with his regulations that was against us and that stood opposed to us. He took it away, nailing it to the cross. It's over. It's done. The IOUs are broken.

No more. Forgiven. And then, having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them. And there's the word I really wanted to get to. Triumphing over them by the cross. I mean, this is victory. The partnership that was formed in the garden between the evil powers and the human decision was triumphed over them.

in love to produce a relationship with the eternal God forever on the cross. Well done. No, I agree. And the one thing we know that's true, Jay, is we don't know a lot about Satan's origin. We know he was an angel who made a decision that God wasn't enough. And then he was cast out of the heavenly realms and then became an instigator in our realm.

And then, of course, offered a choice. And that first choice was made and people have been making those choices ever since. So you see the idea that we're always going to be linked there. But the cross, the triumph, the victory is over Satan and dominion, but also over us. It's not too hard to figure out whether you're a spiritual heavenly being or a human earthling created by God. You still...

Right. Right.

Which I think you just read out of Colossians. Yeah, Colossians 2. Yeah, there's another verse in there in that section. Yeah, there's another verse in that section that says that. Look, Hebrews 9.14 says, How much more then will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,

So that we may serve the living God. There's the relationship. That's why I wanted to go there. Go back to go back to the passage when you were you were in you were in Colossians 2, but in Colossians 1 at the very end of it, right before it gets to the point that you made in chapter 2. Listen to how Paul uses the language here about our alienation from God. Listen to this language in verse 21. Once.

You were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. So think about the nature of sin, because what is sin again? It's us thinking we can find life autonomously auto alone without God. We can find it on our own without him. So if you go that direction.

Naturally, what is that? In your mind, you are separated from God because of our own evil behavior. So here's where the cross comes in. But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through...

through death to present you holy in his sight without blemish and free from accusation if you continue in your faith established and firm and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel so why do i bring it up do i i do think that that obviously we're enemies of christ as well but but but but we never talk about this idea of that we're enemies in our mind

Like I'm separated from God in my own mind. And Christ, his reconciliation makes that right, which is what allows me to approach him with a clean conscience. Going back to the language when Peter says that about baptism, it saves you by the resurrection. It's a pledge of a good conscience towards God. Well, because what he did, not what I did, but it's his atonement that removes the accusation.

To which now I can go to God and pledge a good conscience. And I'm not saying, God, look at how awesome I am. That's not what I'm saying. None of us are saying that. We're saying, look how awesome you are. He brought the relationship back to him. I know we're out of time, but I just wanted to reiterate because you read that. Romans 5, 10 says the same thing. For if when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his son, how much more have we been reconciled? Shall we be saved through his life?

But my whole point was verse 8 of Romans 5 says, God demonstrates his own love for us. While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. That is the hub and the focus of why Jesus came to earth.

All right. We're out of time. Good stuff. I got the perfect illustration to talk about this, but I'm going to wait and save it for the next podcast. We'll see you on the next Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes. And for even more content that you won't get anywhere else, subscribe to BlazeTV at blazetv.com slash unashamed.