How Peptides Enhance Healing and Longevity | Dr. Edwin Lee
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Coming up on this episode of The Doctor's Pharmacy. In my neighborhood, all my neighbors ring my doorbell and they have some type of injury. So they just point to where they need a peptide injected. So they point to their shoulder or to the elbow, their foot, their ankles. I have every day someone's ringing my doorbell to get a peptide shot.

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Welcome to Doctors Pharmacy. I'm Dr. Mark Hyman. That's pharmacy when they have a place for conversations that matter. And today's podcast is on a topic you may or may not have heard about, peptides. Although you probably have heard about it if you've ever heard about insulin or the more recent peptide of note, Ozempic. Now, peptides are in our bodies all over the place, thousands and thousands of them. And most of us probably don't know what they are, how they work, but they're

critical in our health. And Dr. Edwin Lee, our guest today, is an expert. He's an endocrinologist, he's an author, and he's founded the Institute for Hormonal Balance in Orlando, Florida. He's a board-certified physician in internal medicine, endocrinology, diabetes, and metabolism, and has specialized training in regenerative and functional medicine. He's a graduate of the Medical College of Pennsylvania and finished his two fellowships, critical care and endocrinology, at the University of Pittsburgh, and is the author of many books. And the latest one is called The Fountain of Youth at

with peptides. He's the lead investigator for an IRB-approved senolytic study investigating the role of peptides as well in our health and the trial using BP-157, an important peptide for joint and bone and muscle repair injected for knee pain. And he also works as an assistant professor at the University of...

Central Florida College of Medicine, and he's the co-founder of the Clinical Peptide Society. So Dr. Lee and I dive deep in this topic, which you may think is a bit esoteric, but I encourage you to stay with me because peptides are the future of understanding how to regulate our biology using bioidentical molecules. Now, Zempik you've seen is the latest one, but there's lots more. We're going to talk about some of the most important ones. There's

There's 7,000 of them, maybe more. There's ones like thymus alpha-1, BP-157. We talk about what they do in the body, how safe they are, why the FDA is cracking down on them, and how they can delay aging and reduce inflammation. I personally use peptides with great advantage, and I encourage you to tune into this really enlightening conversation with Dr. Edwin Lee. So, Edwin, it's great to be here with you. We're at the Integrative Healthcare Symposium Live, and we're recording this podcast about a topic called

that I think is sort of captured a lot of people's imagination, particularly longevity biohacking space, which is peptides. And I don't know if the average person even knows what a peptide is, but we're going to get into what they are, but they're highly prevalent in the body. They're things your body makes to regulate almost everything that's going on. They're little mini proteins, essentially, that...

are the communication network of your body and they regulate every single function from your hormones to your brain function to your immune system, your sexual function to tissue repair. I mean, it's quite amazing that we've kind of

you know gone this long in medicine without really taking a hard look at peptides in a in a conventional way now there are things that people know of as peptides that you don't even know are peptides right like insulin is a peptide exactly uh ozempic is now the sort of blockbuster drug of the day and that's a peptide that's a peptide so the glutathione is a peptide we defile the peptide yeah so there's a lot of compounds that we use in medicine that are peptides

It's probably over 7,000 produced by the body, right? Actually, technically 300,000. 300,000. Okay, I was off by a few thousand. But we only understand a fraction of it. And outside in nature, there's, I think, I estimate about 6 million peptides out there. That's incredible, 6 million. I mean, a lot from venoms and from animals. Not in human peptides, but other peptides.

Oh yeah, dairy and there's really amazing spiders and just interesting creatures. Nature has a lot of wealth of... As a functional medicine doctor and in regenerative medicine, I really love the idea of using bioidentical molecules to support the body to do what it's supposed to do. Oh, definitely. Yeah. So the drug is essentially a...

molecule that interferes or interrupts or blocks some pathway in the body. And there's usually downstream side effects. Hepatitis also can have side effects when used in pharmacological doses like we're seeing with ozempic. But these are biomolecules that have, we've evolved over

over, you know, millennia that regulate everything that's happening in our body. So they're getting a lot of kind of play in the longevity space to optimize cognitive health, to rejuvenate your skin, to help with tissue repair, to improve sexuality, vitality, longevity. So kind of take us from the top down. What are peptides? How do they work in the body and how can they be used to treat disease and

optimize his health and rejuvenate our biology. You did a great explanation of peptides, but the way I explain to my patients, Mark, is that

Peptides are signaling molecules, they're miniature proteins, small little proteins that are made of amino acids. And unfortunately, the FDA has just arbitrarily just made a clarification that under 40 amino acids is considered a peptide, over 40 is a biologic, and then over 100 amino acids traditionally has been considered a protein. So it's the length of basically how many amino acids are put together.

Like I said, the body makes 300,000 peptides. We only understand a fraction of it. And anyway, it's really fun to read the research that's out there. And I just, I explained that

peptides to my patient is a signaling molecule. It's short acting and it's like a doorbell ringing, someone ringing your doorbell. That's a peptide and a reaction is going to happen. Either your dog's going to bark or someone's going to answer the door.

So if you give a peptide to basically help your immune system, like thymus and alpha-1, that's going to stimulate your immune system work better. So that's a natural peptide produced by your thymus gland. And as you know, Mark, you know, it's thyroid and thymus. It's always patients always get confused, but it sits like in your chest and

between your lungs in front of your heart. And I have some-- - Sweetbreads, if you like veal sweetbreads, it's when you go to a restaurant, you chance your restaurant they have great sweetbreads, that's what it is, your thymus gland. - I didn't know that. - You didn't know that? - I should order some sweetbread. - I wonder if eating it is actually good. I mean, if you get any TA1 or peptides from eating it after it's cooked, I don't know.

Well, they did a study, you probably read, that basically they gave human growth hormone and metformin DHEA and the thymus improved. It was only in men, so they were going to do another trial. I'm curious if it's women. But anyway, if the thymus gets healthier, your immune system gets healthier. So that's one key component, have a healthy immune system.

So how do they actually work? Are they like binding to receptors and activating gene expression and regulating various kind of protein networks in the body? Some peptides are so small, like epithelium, it can actually slip through and go through the nucleus and interact with the DNA through the histone binding sites. Ah, okay.

And some of these peptides were discovered by Dr. Kamisen, who is from St. Petersburg, Russia. He has probably 40 years of research on these wonderful peptides. And unfortunately, he just passed away a couple of weeks ago. So I'm really sad about that.

I have so many questions to ask. - You didn't get to ask them? - And I did have the privilege to talk to him once, but anyway, to me, he's like one of the top scientists and he should have got the Nobel Prize in medicine.

Yeah, it's quite amazing. But it also acts in certain receptors. So there's a group of receptors called the G protein couple receptor, and most peptides interact with that receptor and basically cause a cascade event. And then basically it's like...

doorbell ringing and then you get a cascade event. Well, it's like insulin. Insulin binds to receptors in the cell and then kind of opens the gate for the glucose to go in the cell. And PLP1 agonists do a similar thing like ozempic. There is a receptor, yes, exactly. So it's a general class called the G-protein couple receptors. It won the Nobel Prize in medicine, the G-protein couple receptors. Yeah, yeah, incredible. So they're...

About 150 peptides now out of the 300,000 that you said that are being researched for medical applications, right? And there's over 80 peptides that are already approved by the FDA for medical use. What are the kinds of things that people should be aware of that peptides work well for, or maybe even better than traditional therapies? Yeah.

Well, in my neighborhood, all my neighbors ring my doorbell and they have some type of injury. So they just point to where they need a peptide injected. So they point to their shoulder or to the elbow, their foot, their ankles. So I have every day someone's ringing my doorbell to get a peptide shot. But I usually give BPC-157, which is one of my favorite peptides. It comes from her stomach, stomach fluid. And

Actually, the history is kind of interesting about that peptide. I really... Anyway, I can go into that, but it was recently discovered like in 1990s in Croatia. Yeah. And anyway, I...

I actually published the first human clinical trial in peptides, a lot of research in animals, but I'm conducting two more human clinical trials, which is really exciting. That's amazing. So BP-157, for example, is a peptide that the body produces.

I'm assuming it's made synthetically in the lab by putting together the sequence of amino acids. They know the sequence of it. So they sequence amino acids and they put together that string amino acid. So it's synthetically made, but it's a bioidentical molecule. Exactly. Right.

So it's like making testosterone in the lab or making very small. And, and, uh, and then BB 157, let's just sort of unpack that. Cause that's a very popular one. Uh, I personally used it. I've had a bicep tendonitis. I was, you know, doing some, uh, strength training and it kind of got irritated and I'm like, well, I'm just going to shoot some BP 157 in there. I did a couple of shots and it went away. Uh, and it was, it was impressive. Um,

And I've used it for other things as well and found them really very effective for immune function. When I had COVID, I, for example, used TA1 as a peptide using my patients.

Um, BB-157, let's sort of just unpack that for a minute. How does that work in the body when you inject it, for example, systemically in your, I mean, subcutaneous fat in your abdomen, or if you have an issue with a particular muscle, uh, when you, a tendon tear, you inject it into that. What's actually happening? Is it? Well, for tendon tear, muscle tear, or even, um, like, um, like I inject in a patient's joints, um, and they have a tear. What, what it's interesting is that, uh,

The one classic study that was done is they had these rats and they cut the Achilles. That sounds fun. So poor rat. And basically one group basically got BPC injected in their stomach and the other group just got placebo. And the group that got injected into their stomach, in a month later, they were walking again.

And you don't see that in nature. When you have an Achilles repair, it's just going to be third grade. This was the first thing that was shown. And that was like, wow. So for my son, he had basically, he was in high school. It was a cross-country team. He had a six-pack. He was just like born to run.

He's developed basically an ITB injury, illiterate band, and he couldn't even walk. - Your ITB, I recall it, right. - Yeah, so he just could not even get in and out of the car.

and I told him that he was in ninth grade. I said, son, I can inject BPC into your leg. And he said, you aren't effing doing that. So I had to show him some slides and I showed him the rat. I had to show him hard data. And he goes, okay, you can inject. And then literally, he was, I don't know, 15 at that time. He quickly recovered. And like a week later, he was running again. That's amazing. It's amazing. And so...

It actually helps. There's multiple theories on how it works. Number one, it reduces inflammation. It recruits your immune system to basically heal. But the one part is there's a receptor called the

fat-glin C receptor that activates your growth hormone receptor. So it's a pathway to help growth hormone receptors to be activated so that whatever growth hormone you have, you can actually heal faster. So growth hormone is really involved in healing and

Dr. Exactly. It's an antibiotic hormone, but you need the receptors, and that's what BPC-157 does. And there was a study that once they stopped it, three days later, they still had high expression of growth hormone receptors. So if you use growth hormone peptides with basically BPC and TB4, you will heal much faster. So I have people

I have so many patients who've had all these massive injuries. - Like the tesamorelin, samorelin peptides you mean for adding? - Yeah, CJC, 1295, tesamorelin, yes. They can all help heal faster too. - Amazing, so it works by helping, for example, growth hormone. There may be mechanisms actually we don't really understand yet. - Exactly.

what you said in the rat was interesting because they just injected it into the abdominal fat. Right. It's a signaling molecule. So it basically tells the body to... But they didn't have to inject it into the Achilles tendon. They did not inject it even near the tendon. Does it work better if you inject it near the site? Yes, it always does work better. But that study was truly mind-blowing in the belly of the rat and the Achilles tendon. That's quite amazing. And, you know, in some ways, peptides are used to treat

you know, injury or illness, right? Like, for example, BP-157 or insulin. Ozempic, you could say, would be something that would be a semaglutide peptide that would be used to treat obesity or diabetes or to help with various things that it helps with. But many of the peptides are not really treating disease so much as bioregulators that regulate

our bodily functions to optimize them. Right. And my favorite one in regards to bioregulators is epithalon. Yeah. E-P-I-T-H-A-L-O-N. And that was discovered by Dr. Patterson. And so, for example... Before amino acid public.

four amino acids, it seems like, what would it do? It comes naturally from our pineal gland. And as we get older, like our thymus gland, it will calcify and will shrivel up and you lose melatonin and you lose epithelin from the pineal gland. And when you lose epithelin, what happens is your cells that are supposed to self-replicate get stuck in G2. So there's self-replication. So if you want a new skin cell, your body basically can get rid of the old skin cell and then you generate new skin cells.

Inside our body, we can generate new heart cells, new myocytes, new liver cells, new pancreas. But our ability gets less. Exactly, because we're losing epithelium. And epithelium basically turns on cell cycle. It's the peptide to make you younger. And I have patients who have prediabetes or type 2 diabetes. Some of them have reduction of their medication or even get off their insulin.

I have patients who basically their macular degeneration is improving, their vision is getting better. So it's actually making you younger, but you can't self-replicate forever because then you have discovered immortality, which I haven't discovered yet. Far from it, I don't think I'll ever do it, but I'll never find it. But anyway, I have patients that say, "Hurry up, Dr. Lee, how much time?"

But Epitalent is just amazing. I just love it. Is this something you take every day? Is this something you take a cycle? No, that Cavisin wants you to cycle it. And so I have made my patients, which is sad because the FDA has this on the chopping blocks there too, in terms of banning peptides. But yeah.

You can get EpiPallant spray, which is actually... Nasal spray. No, under the tongue. Under the tongue. Normally, you have to inject the Peptide. The problem is that there's so many on the internet, but if you can get from Russia, the original one, Cavisant, I'm sure... I'm sure there's not a lot of commerce going back and forth with Russia. Through China. Through China. Yeah. Yeah, the black market for Peptides. Well, this one's a spray, and this one, I trust Dr. Cavisant. Yeah. Yeah.

So, you know, these are... I don't trust the other ones. It's Capucin's brand. So, you mentioned, for example, sort of epithelium as a bioregulator that controls our... Self-replication. Self-replication, healing, repair. And so, they're not like treating a disease, right? Exactly. So, you get it. So, what happens is... Insulin can treat type 1 diabetes, and that's great. But not all peptides are doing that. In fact, most of them are not. They're actually simply just enhancing function, like...

Yeah, like PT-141, for example. Yeah, we both thought the same peptide, same type. Yeah, that's... For better libido, better sex drive, better motor. It's actually approved for women, sexual dysfunction. Yeah, it has been FDA approved for that. Yeah, and it also works for men. Yes, I have a lot of men and women on it. So it increases desire. So does oxytocin. Oxytocin is actually...

FDA approved. Is it peptide? It's a peptide. It's FDA approved. Yeah, so oxytocin is the love molecule. It's the rest when you have your sex or when you, you know, are breastfeeding. But there's a lot of other benefits. And my nurse practitioner, Becky Murray, is going to do a webinar

I hope stuff monthly webinar not as popular as yours. I you probably have thousands. I have only 30 people following but anyway One day I'll be it's popular as you mark. Well, let's see. I know I there's no way I'm a seller That's all right. Well, I bought my books I bought your book actually what I went on Kindle and it was free because I think it's for the Kindle unlimited. I

Oh really? Yeah. I'm going to take it off Amazon. I was going to buy it. I was like, wow, Kindle Unlimited. This is great. I got no boy. Maybe 10 cents a year from Amazon.

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a value for peptides in clinical practice and for patients. What are the ones you'd like to use? What do they use for? Okay, number one that I just truly love is if you want skin, GHK copper. Dr. Pickard discovered GHK, and it's a natural biopsy.

byproducts so when you have collagen and basically breaks down part of it is GHK so GHK can turn on your fibroblasts to make work basically collagen and hyaluronic acid and yeah the skin look better yeah and you don't inject in your face you can just put in your abdomen

Well, we have GHK copper topical. Topical. Yeah. So I'm not that smart, not that good looking, not a great athlete, but I have good skin even though I live in Florida and I don't even use sunscreen, but I use tons of GHK copper. On your face? Oh, yeah. Topical. I love it. And I tell all my patients. It stings like hell when you inject it.

Dr. Well, no, no, I'm talking about topical, but you can inject. And for my father who passed away recently with very aggressive cancer, T-cell lymphoma, he had a great life and he basically was told, "We really have like 30 days to live. Chemo radiation won't work." And I said,

"Alright dad, you're basically in a walker, let me give you some peptides." And so, for cancer, I made those

Several different peptides that have a lot of clinical studies in it. So, simosalpha-1 could help. To help your immune system fight cancer. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. As an adjuvant. Not the cure. We're not saying it's a cure. What you're saying is... Oh, yeah, yeah. All the studies, even stage four, most of them shows basically improvement of, basically, longevity than regression of mortality.

So, thymus alpha-1 has been used. You can use basically metencephalin, which I was using. GHK copper turns off also cancer genes. Epithelin can also do that. So, I told my dad, "You're going to get some peptides," and I already drew it up. And my dad goes, "I don't want them." He's like, "Go store it."

He goes, I don't want to. And he goes, I said, it's too late, Dad. Mom is going to inject you anyway. So...

You can say whatever you want. And we got eight great months with my dad. That's amazing. So he went from like literally from a walker to walking two miles a day, regained his weight and- That's incredible. Yeah, all through peptides. Yeah. And better nutrition too. Yeah. Amazing. So, you know, so kind of going down again into the sort of the rabbit hole of like, what are the best use cases? What are the top peptides in your toolkit, right? Yeah.

For example, I know my best supplements are magnesium, vitamin D, fish oil. Those are my go-to, right? Probiotic. I would say number one is I love BPC-157. You can take it orally. People with reflux, it tightens the LES junction. I have some people get off their reflux medicine. That's the bottom of your esophagus where the kind of...

reflux happens and it comes back up from the stomach. And there's not many things that tighten LES junction. Yeah, that's the lower esophageal sphincter. It's like a sphincter at the bottom of your esophagus and that's loose and you get reflux. As it comes up, you get reflux, GERD and all that. That's impressive. But BPC has, FYI, I have people taking it and I inject

peptides in their elbow and a month later they re-injure their elbow, but they go, "I've been taking that BPC, my shoulder, I can sleep much better." So it can improve your entire body. So I call it the Wolverine peptide. So you'll get younger. - So you can grow back. - Yeah, so you can say Wolverine peptide. - That's great. - Some people never watch Marvel. - BB-157, that's the top of your list. So we talked a bit about that and it's great for injuries, for trauma, for tissue repair.

And I think it's one of the ones that I tend to rely on because I think it really, personally, it's helped me and I think it helps a lot of patients. What other peptides are there? I love thymus and alpha-1 because as we get older, our thymus gland shrivels up and we're trying to basically help the thymus gland, I mean, your immune system get healthier. And as you know, Mark, you got to have a healthy immune system because once it goes down, it goes to two ways. It goes to cancer or to infection. So

Yeah, we get immunosenescence, which means the aging of our immune system, which is why when you're older, you get more infections. You can't fight them as well. You die of pneumonia. You don't respond as well to the vaccines.

And you get, you know, looking at COVID, the people who are elderly had the higher risk of death. And so I think you're talking about a very important phenomena that we don't really have a good treatment for with traditional medicine. So generally, I tell my patients to use like 250 micrograms of thymus alpha-1 like once or twice a week, just as... Not daily. You can use daily if you're sick, like higher doses. Like if you have COVID or flu. Yeah, my wife, one day, she goes...

When she gets sick, it's a nightmare because I don't know when to drop the kids off. Do I give them lunch money? Where do I pick them up? You don't have the playbook for... I just... This is the Uber driver. So, yeah, I mean... So, when my kids were younger, my wife goes, I took everything, the C, the D, the zinc, you know, silver...

I'm coming down with something. And she goes, you have something else? And I go, yeah, yeah, in the fridge I have the thymus alpha-1. So I gave her, I remember this clearly, way before COVID, probably 2016 or something like that. So I gave her about one milligram of thymus alpha-1. Next morning, she was perfect. I was like, thank God. She was sick.

I want to know how to handle the cold. We don't have the cure for the common cold, but if you take this, if you start to feel sick, when you get that feeling, I think I'm getting sick, and you take it, it can be

Profoundly effective. Exactly. What else besides TA1 and BP157? I love epithalin. Generally, we do 5 milligrams sub-Q daily for like 10 days. If you skip a day or like the weekend, you forget, that's okay. Just make sure you finish the vial. So one vial will have 50 5-0 milligrams of epithalin twice a year. So you just do it twice a year? Yeah, twice a year. So like 10 days, twice a year. It's kind of a reset for your longevity. Exactly.

And I have people like, for me when I was doing it, it's amazing, my sleep, I was on melatonin every year, higher and higher and higher doses. And do you know epithelin turns on three genes of your pineal gland to make melatonin?

And my wife goes, "How come you're not taking melatonin anymore?" I was like, "I don't need it. I can sleep without it." So it can reset your pineal gland and help you sleep better. So I love Epifalant because as we get older... And you mentioned the Russian version via the nasal spray, but you can also take it... Not nasal, it's under the tongue. Under the tongue? But you can also do it through... Injection through our 503A compound pharmacy, a prescription.

Yeah, amazing. And the... The problem is that most people, when they hear this, they're going to get addicted to epithelium. Do not use it every day for the rest of your life because you're going to stop the magic in terms of self-replication. It will eventually, like the hayflick...

theory, it's going to stop in terms of, it's no longer going to work. Just because a little bit's good doesn't mean a lot's better. Exactly. So, yeah, just be patient and don't take it every day of the year because it's going to eventually stop working. Now, you know, the other thing that sort of happens as we get older is, you know,

we end up with hormonal changes. You know, lower testosterone, we have, you know, lower growth hormone, we tend to lose muscle, we sort of age as a result of changes in our hormonal environment. And what's interesting, a lot of these peptides can be involved in regulating hormone function. Well, yes, there are, like,

In regards to women that are done with their post-menopause or finished with the menstrual cycle, sometimes I tell them, like, you may start your period coming back. And if you get pregnant, please mention me because I want to be famous. I'm not sure. Inquire, because I can't be famous like you, so I have to go to the other route.

So anyway, yeah, it's amazing. They go, "My period was gone five years ago and I was coming back." So I don't know how long it's going to keep on going, but they've, in the animal studies... Using which peptide? Epithelium. Epithelium. Yeah. So ovarian function gets better. So it works not just on the pineal gland, but also... Other organs. Maybe the hypothalamus or... It can help the heart. Because it turns on gene expression.

which is interesting. There's certain proteins that get kicked off and things work. So epithelium is like to me... That's a good one. I love it. Many people are using other ones like kispeptin, which is for testosterone. Yes, kispeptin-10. It may work like gonadarylin to help with testosterone function, but...

you know those are peptides um that may or may not work in men it's it's confusing because the data was iv and they would do it like 24 hours and per body weight and it's hard to convert that to how much do you do it subcube so um anyway i have some some guys uh with some better testosterone level with using his peptide then there's the whole growth hormone

category of supportive peptides like tesamorelin, samorelin, CJC, FIL95. Can you talk about those and what role they have and what they do? Yeah, there's really interesting in terms of growth hormone peptides. So I just want to start off with

out of all the side effects of all the peptides, that class has the most common side effects. Interesting. So it may affect about 20% of patients and they can't take it anymore. They really get welts in their injection sites.

And then some people really get really bad rashes and it's this entire body. So I warn them that, you know, if you see a welt just growing, growing, growing, just stop. You're developing antibodies to it and you're not going to be, even if you stop and retake it, like,

like six months later it's going to happen again so your body doesn't like it. Now everyone, I have some people on for five, six years and no reactions and doing well. So they're all very slightly, they're very similar but there's two receptors in the pituitary gland. There's the ghrelin receptor and then there's basically the growth hormone receptor. So these peptides can interact to either one and like you would do CJC with

1295, which is part of the growth hormone. It's like part of the active part of the growth hormone that activates the pituitary gland at the growth hormone receptor. And then, Ipermorillin basically interacts with the ghrelin receptor. So in combination, you have a higher level of basically growth hormone release.

And what are the consequences of having that higher level of growth hormone release? Well, this is the controversy about growth hormone. Does growth hormone make you younger or older? The literature is all over the place. I am doing a study on that, which is... Because I could show you literature on both sides of the... But generally, growth hormone is considered the founder of youth.

But if you overuse it, I think it's bad. It accelerates. I agree. So I think in little use and not bodybuilding use, I think you'll do fine.

So these compounds, you sort of hinted at a little bit, but they are powerful biomolecules, like Ozempic, for example, or semaglutide. We're finding that in the doses that it's being given for weight loss and for diabetes, at two years plus, we're seeing significant side effects, like increasing bowel wall thickness, small bowel obstruction, pancreatitis, and other things increasing.

And so these are not completely risk-free compounds. So how do you navigate the issue around safety? You think, oh, they're natural compounds, it's safe, I can take them, and people are playing with them. Yeah, so let's use the semaglutide or ozempic or manjaro, which is apatite, and there are others that's...

Zabound just got FDA approval for his Trizapatide for weight loss there. But the thing is that I was kind of the king of the GLP-1 way before the movie started. I wish I had got the hashtag SkinnyPen, but anyway, I don't even do social media, so I'm not on Facebook. So were you recommending semaglutide to your patients before, or was that the big deal? Brief use.

I have patients basically, you're stuck. They go, I just need a little help. And then we work on lifestyle modification. I want you to basically like really work on physical activity, you know, get your steps in, try to get a high intensity interval. Let's clean up the diet and maybe use it sparingly.

I'm okay with that. Like maybe three months a year, like during the holidays, they know that Thanksgiving, Christmas, too much temptations. And then after that, they go, okay, I'm fine. So if you can taper off or maybe use it sparingly, I think it's perfectly fine. There is a product that's called CaloCurb. It's a natural herb which actually activates basically the bitter receptor in the body.

small intestine. And it releases your natural GLP-1 and CCK to inhibit appetite. So I have some of my patients I go, let's see if you can use this and get off your... Yeah, I mean there's a whole set of ways of naturally to raise GLP-1. Whether it's certain compounds, for example, Himalayan Tyree Buckwheat works in the lower...

you test them with these taste receptors to increase GFP1, various kinds of polyphenols and other things can help. So it's definitely not just the drug that can do it.

But there are concerns around side effects. If you tend to use these things improperly, if you don't have proper guidance, if you don't understand the risks, you can get anybody, as you mentioned, like you said, to the growth hormone analogs, or you can end up with maybe other untoward side effects that you're not even aware of. So what are the kinds of things that people should be worried about or concerned about with PEP test?

Well, I think in general, peptides are generally very safe and efficacious. The ones that are of concern are the growth hormone-releasing peptides. And MOTC, I did see one person. That's for the mitochondria to make it from better energy. I've had one with anaphylactic. And I had another doctor friend. He's a co-founder of Clinical Peptide Society. He also saw one anaphylactic reaction. So just got to be careful. They're rare.

side effect, but you know, medications like, you know, even taking, you know, aspirin, you can get anaphylactic. So, you know, I agree. I mean, you guys take an aspirin and you almost bled to death in the stomach. So yeah. Yeah.

So, this field is really just exploding, but at the same time, there's a lot of pushback from the government and the FDA to try to regulate these in ways. And one of the things that I caught earlier that you said, which got my attention, was that there's not a lot of human clinical trials. A lot of the data you're talking about is animal studies.

Well, not all peptides. One of the peptides I just published was on thymus and alpha-1, and it's open access, so you can find it. It's the comprehensive review of the safety and efficacy of thymus and alpha-1 in human clinical trials. So there's 11,000 patients worldwide that have been on clinical trials on thymus and alpha-1, and basically, it's been safe.

And the efficacy based on those trials? Yeah, I mean, efficacy, most of them basically improved. I mean, they were doing studies like hep B, hep C. Now there's newer drugs and all that. But back then, they had nothing. So they were using thymus alpha-1 for chronic hep B. And this is, like, interesting. If you go back in history and you read it, it's like, well, you know, there's better ones here now.

- Yeah, yeah. Well, I remember seeing in China during COVID that there was some studies on TA1 and COVID treatment. - And some studies shows reduced mortality. And unfortunately, one compound pharmacy got this whole peptide upset with the FDA and it was the compound pharmacy

advertised that there's a cure for COVID. Oh, wow. And then you say cure to the FDA with COVID, oh, you're going to be shut down. That's why they were upset. So that was one of the reasons why it's on the banned list. But it has been approved as an orphan drug in the 70s. And when they did first clinical trials with children born without thymus glands. And

And they, even F.D.A. goes, let's get this going. Let's see if we can help these children. And it was remarkable. It saved their lives. So this is before time is enough on the precursor of it. But anyway, it's like...

"Hey, it's safe. It's around." So that's why I wrote the paper, to basically show it to these attorneys who are going to eventually file a lawsuit against the FDA about this. Yeah, well, it's a whole problem. Often, you know, we find that supplements or things that really work well tend to be regulated in ways that are confusing to me because they work, they're safe, there's a long history of use, there's plenty of evidence.

and their bioidentical compounds or things that the body makes or uses. And I just find it sort of striking that, you know, maybe I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist, but, you know, there's pushback maybe from pharma to kind of try to reduce access to certain compounds because they work too well. Well, you know, I have theories there too. But anyway, I just really want for people out there, especially your group, is to get onto safepeptides.org.

And hopefully you'll have that on your podcast there. And it's really quick to sign the petition, send it to your friends and family. We need more signatures. And it's grassroots. And I go on every lot of radio shows and podcasts. And we get a little blip after the podcast. That's great. Yeah, I think it's important. Edwin says it's important. We want to be able to...

have access to compounds that can support our health. And we have to be, they have to be used judiciously. They have to be prescribed by a physician. You have to be under someone's care who knows what they're doing.

But in that context, they should be available to be used. And what's happening now is a restriction on that use. So if you go to savepeptides.org-- Not com, dot org. --savepeptides.org, you can basically sign a petition. And that will help to the FDA to perhaps reduce their restrictions or potential ban. They're not banned yet. There's a proposed ban. So I think we're going to still see it's being fought. There's a lot of legal cases going on about this.

In terms of a few other use cases, one of the things that happens as we get older and often a big problem for people is energy. We lose energy. And one of the fundamental problems

things that happen as we get older is our mitochondria don't work as well, you know, produce energy from food and oxygen as well. So basically our engine starts to slow down. And we see, obviously, you see a two-year-old running around, bouncing up the walls and, you know, full of energy, and you see like a 92-year-old and they're moving super slow. And a lot of that has to do with mitochondria. Oh yeah, mitochondria's function is huge. So talk about why the importance of mitochondria and what

what the use of peptides are in helping to improve the function and health of the mitochondria and how they work. So, as you mentioned, mitochondrial function is critical for optimal health. And we check in our office NAD levels

So I say Nancy Apple Dog because it's nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide. And it's not something you can really check easily at a regular lab. So use a special lab. Yeah, it's Ginfinity Lab. Ginfinity. Can you spell that? Yeah, it's a finger stick. It's J-I-N-I-F-I-T-Y. Okay, we'll put that in the show notes, everybody. But Ginfinity Lab to check your NAD levels. Is that?

And you can order yourself. You have to go through it. I think you can order yourself. And basically you, it's, it measures your white blood cells, intracellular NAD levels. So it's a fingerprint test. There's like five whole circles. And if we draw your blood a little extra, we'll just put it on this and we let it dry. And there's the little droppers you have to do, but

We send it in bulk rather than one at a time because things get lost in the mail. But the thing is that

My wife's NAD level was low. It was, anyway, 20, not optimal. And I was 30, a little better, but I always had more energy than my wife. And so I told her, let's try this product that has NMN. So I tell my patients like Nancy, Michael, Nancy, it stands for a big chemical word, but it's a precursor of NAD. So a month later, we rechecked.

And she went from 20 to 40, I went from 30 to 50. Amazing. And it's amazing because I like to ride. I'm not a professional cyclist, but...

Anyway, I like to ride with younger people. Yeah, you keep up? Yeah, I try to keep up. Did you do better? Oh, yeah. I mean, there was a group ride. They go, oh, you're so young. I go, no, I have a higher NAD level. So this is like the enhanced Olympics then, right? Exactly. So, you know what? All the athletes are taking NMN to improve their energy, but you can measure it. And the second thing, I mean, from mitochondria. That's not a peptide. No, it's a supplement that FDA has now banned on steroids.

since March of 2023 against Amazon. It was available for over 10, 15 years. David Sinclair. Yeah, it's still available, but it's... It's through Physician's Office, but not on Amazon. So it's harder and harder, but I think David Sinclair is making a drug, so it's a shame. It's a natural product. Yeah, exactly. Anyway.

So you're talking about how to optimize an AD with another peptide. No, it's not a peptide. It's a B vitamin. But the other thing is what I'm trying to do is in conjunction with that, yeah, is that you've got to optimize sleep too. So I think epithelium can help with better sleep. And you'll get your REM up. And, you know, a lot of people have adrenal fatigue. So you've got to get that sleep.

deep sleep REM sleep up and get good good quality sleep so it's not quantity is also quality but

Anyway, there is a peptide since we're talking about peptide. It's MOTSC, MOTSC. It's a mitochondrial peptide. And it just basically turns on the mitochondria work faster. And for when I've tried it, the first dose is like, okay, good. Second time I tried it, I was like, hmm. And third time was, damn, this is great. So is this something you use every day long term? No, I do it intermittently. So, but

There's so many different compound pharmacies that make it. And the problem is I'm a wuss when it comes to injection and if it burns. I don't like the burn. And the ones that I was using never burned. And then they got stopped. TaylorMade stopped making it. And we had to go elsewhere. So I prefer IV pushes. If I get an IV of nutrition, I'll say do a MOXIE push. It doesn't burn at all. It feels great.

But I do it individually because most matzah burns and I'm a wimp. I mean, I can go in cold water. I love cold plunge, but I don't like to burn. Could you use it every day? If...

Well, you're supposed to, you can do, the protocol is 10 milligrams once a week or 5 milligrams sub-cube twice a week. You could go a little further if you have an event, like you're trying to run faster, like you have a marathon coming up or something like that. But in general, just once to two times a week. And are there any risks to it?

Well, like I said before, I did have one patient that developed anaphylactic reaction. And thank God she lived by herself. But she had a wherewithal to basically knew something was wrong. So she was in Arizona. She ran outside. Thank God her neighbor was there. She said, call 911. And she collapsed outside. Wow. And then she basically, like a month later, goes, can I try it again? No. Right. Never. Never.

But she goes, "I lost so much weight, it's so good." So that's another benefit with MOTC. - It helps with weight loss? - Yeah, speeds up metabolism. - Yeah. - Converts your white fat to brown fat too. - So it increases energy production and burning, right? So it increases your metabolism, literally. There's a few other mitochondrial peptides like SS31 and humanin. Can you talk a little bit about how those work, what they do, how they're used?

Yeah, so SS31 is another interesting mitochondrial peptide that can help. I kind of explain to my patients that as you get older, it's like your underwear, you wear that same underwear over time, you lose that elastic. So your mitochondria gets weak and SS31 kind of snaps it back in place. So then basically the

You know the electron chain where you produce all the ATP and energy basically it's better form so if the confirmation of the mitochondria doesn't work and it gets weak then that's why your production gets weak so it doesn't speed up the mitochondria, but it helps Basically their structure. Exactly. And what about human in?

I haven't used that yet. Have you? A little, yeah. A little. Okay. So I think there's a whole... I mean, like you said, there's 300,000. I don't know how many... I know. I get on podcasts and...

Always someone wants to stop me. What about blah, blah, blah, blah. I never heard. Yeah. And then they'll go one hour talking about giving me a lecture. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know all of the peptides. So the question really is, you know, when you're seeing a patient and we talked a lot about, you know, peptides where everything's going to be in the show notes here. So people can learn more about them. We're going to put links to the studies you mentioned. We're going to be links to save, save. Yeah. Yeah.

And if you can donate too, that'd be great. It's time to get a phase one clinical trial for BPC-157. Yeah, so you've got a few million dollars to do some research for this. I don't think it's millions, but just... No, it's important. And I think, you know... Even $20 will help. The more research that we have, the better off we're going to be to understand these. But they are kind of exciting new therapeutic in medicine that I never really learned about except for insulin. And I think that...

helpful across a range of human functions that tend to decline as we get older. So they seem to be sort of an adjunct in longevity and a lot of people in the longevity space are using this. You know, what are your sort of top longevity peptides? Well, number one is epithelium. That one you mentioned. Twice a year, 10 days, reset the pineal gland. Exactly. Okay, got it. And in terms of the

You know, the kind of... The second would be thymosulfone for your immune system. Yeah, those two, yeah. So there's some heavy hitters. There's some powerhouse peptides that are kind of go-to for you that are part of your standard practice. But when someone comes in to see you as a patient, you take their medical history...

How do you sort of begin to think about, you know, which are the right peptides for each person and how long to use them and how to give them? And it just seems like, you know, we don't really learn how to do that in medicine. Well, what I do is when a patient comes to see me, we actually, it's a pretty extensive process.

morning visit when they come and we do so many different testing. We're looking for DNA damage, we're looking at your genetic snips, and we're also looking at leaky gut. We're looking at many different things that most conventional doctors don't check, like oxidative stress protocol to see if you have cell membrane damage. And so anyway, the thing is,

I have this foundational triangle of health and a lot of people have different versions of it, but it's hormones, leaky gut, fix your liver to remove toxins, sleep, exercise, and then in the middle is nutrition. So I've been nutritional as well.

Try to get that balance and then later add peptides. I don't do that first. I mean, unless... So like phase two? Yeah, two or three, just add more or something like that. But unless they have an acute injury, it's like, okay, let me inject and... So their immune system is down or they've got an injury, there's things you'll pull out. Occasionally I'll pull out, but generally I...

We do a biological age too in all our patients. So anyway, I look at the intrinsic age and later I have to tell them you're older than your chronological age or younger and they always say how do I get better. So I'm publishing another paper and I just don't have time.

but we submitted a paper to be it's being reviewed and uh i'm trying to get that open access quickly and uh so it's an interesting thing i'll just tell you an alzheimer's patient 80 years old could not finish a sentence and in a year his uh cognitive test significantly improved he started two percent he was like failed yeah and now he's trading stocks he said and

his biological age reduced by eight years in a year. And his telomeres increased in size. And is he making money on the training stuff? Yes. But the beauty, I'm not going to tell you what the protocol is, but wait for the paper. Because the paper has to be published first. I don't want to curse it. No, okay. So interview me next time. Okay, we'll link to it eventually in the show notes. I'm dying to know what that protocol was because you're talking basically about reversing cognitive decline using...

I know. I'm really excited about that X price because I think I'm going to submit it. This is just one case. Yeah, but I have other cases. Oh, I have several. Yeah. I am busy in my practice. Do you want to maybe...

Sure, also a little before we get into sort of some of the case studies, do you want to share a little bit about the peptides related to sleep? Because there's a number of peptides that can help improve sleep and there's several 70 million Americans who have some type of sleep disruption, trouble falling asleep, stinging, stuff like that. - I think the best one, honestly, I'll just start with that, but there are other peptides there, but I mean,

I mean, I've used DSIP, delta sleep-inducing peptide, and Ryan Smith and I were doing it at the same time, texting, oh my God, my sleep's so good, you know, because we both struggle with sleep. But then eventually it stopped. It was like tachyphylaxis. It stopped working. And we were doing it every day, and then figured we had to put it back down to like three times a week or something like that. So that's DSIP. Yeah, I stopped using that. Epithelium is phenomenal.

epithelial over time you're you're because you're generating um you're turning on three genes for melatonin production so it's phenomenal so over time you're not going to require some sleeping i have people that are saying omg i am sleeping great so that's your top but it took me three years because i was doing it twice a year and then on the third year i was i was doing it just to get my biological age down yeah

That's amazing. Are there any others that are helpful for sleep? CJC 1295. When I first took it, I forgot that it burns like you, not burning injection, but you feel like you're on fire.

And I remember injecting, and it's worse if you drink alcohol, if you have wine. So I had wine, and then I injected. And I felt like I was on fire, but I was a little drunk, so I fell asleep quickly. But I had a brief moment of empathy of women going through menopause and getting hot flashes because it's like, if this is a hot flash, just shoot me because I can't survive. This is terrible. But then I slept like a baby. So is that something you do every day? Five days a week.

You don't want to burn out the pituitary gland. So I have a peptide class we teach healthcare providers, and I have a class March 16th. It's almost sold out. Now, is this a curriculum? Is this something that a healthcare provider would sign up for, and is it a multi-part course? That's a one-day introduction to peptides, but we teach seven new peptides. It's in case the FDA takes things out. So...

And anyway, it's exciting. It's on clinicalpeptidesociety.com if you're interested. I'm a co-founder of it. It's going to be in Orlando March 16th. So that's an in-person seminar. Yeah, in-person, not Zoom. I had someone from Beverly Hills sign up and they go, I thought it was Zoom. It's like, it says right there. So,

Say the website again. Clinicalpeptidesociety.com I'm a co-founder of Clinical Peptide Society. We're going to put that in the show notes if you're a practitioner and you want to learn more. Because it's hard to learn about this stuff. Actually, I remember you called me. I did. Like, what the hell about these peptides? You know what Mark said? He goes...

"Teach me peptides in five minutes." I said, "Marc, I can't do that." "Just read my book." And he goes, "I don't want to read the book." Give me the cheat sheet. I want the cheat sheet. So I mailed him the book. You read it and you're really good. I'm watching you. It's like you evolved. I'm learning. I'm learning. I like I'm a sponge. I like learning stuff.

So we've got three and five minutes. This is like peptide. Not fair. But I was looking for, because it's hard to get, is like a cheat sheet. Okay, here's the dose of the peptides. Here's the frequency of the peptides. Here's the use case. Here's how to mix them up. Here's the amount of units you get. We teach that in the class. And then we do offer like essential knowledge. It's not a certification. Essential knowledge of peptides.

clinical use of peptides. So you have, there's a test and there's 80 questions. - Like a certification kind of thing? - Yes, but we don't call it certification, we call it essential knowledge. - Yeah. - 'Cause we worked with AMG, Age Management Medicine Group. We would love for you to come and speak there. - Sure. Yeah, I think this is such an important deal. - I'm on the planning committee. - Okay, got it. - So do I have, who do you wanna come? - You're giving me a pitch now to go give a talk, I hear you. - I'll be in November. - But then someplace fun and beautiful,

No, definitely an option. It'll be Utah. Utah. Oh, my daughter lives there. Oh, cool. Salt Lake? I don't know if it's actually one hotel. Okay, Park City? That's close enough to Salt Lake. Yeah, close. Okay. So that sounds good. The other thing I kind of want to hear from you is there's an issue around cost, right? These are not cheap. Right. And so people might be listening and get excited about it, want to try it, and then they go look it up, and it's like...

So expensive. Well, what's expensive? It's all relative. I mean, some patients, it's investment of their life and their health. And I have people of all different backgrounds. And when it comes to their health, though, I mean, it's like there's not many alternatives. When you come to see me, you usually failed everything else. Everything else. And

So it's hundreds of dollars sometimes for a peptide. Yeah, I mean, but the thing is, it's starting to get you from A to B, and then over time, you know, if you use it sparingly, it's not... Yeah, so they're sort of like kind of the fix things and get you healthy, and then you can use them as sort of maintenance intermittently. Right, if you lose weight or, you know, things get better, and, you know, so it's...

I give you the path to get well. It's up to the patient to follow the path. And I've always been in business because they usually follow off the path. There you go. But a lot of my patients do. I'll try better. Yeah, if we do a good job at fixing the food system and maybe dealing with a new way of thinking about chronic disease, we might have a reduction in business, I hope, but there's going to be sick people for a long time. In terms of...

Case studies. Can you share a few highlights from your career? You mentioned the Alzheimer's case, you mentioned your son with IT band, you mentioned yourself a few times. I've certainly had a few positive experiences myself, patients. Well, I've had one woman who slipped chasing her grandchild on carpet and her shoulder popped out.

got worked up and they said you need a shoulder replacement. So she said I want a second opinion and she drove like two hours to see me. She used to live closer but she wanted to see me. And she had five tears on her shoulder.

Supraspinatus, Infraspinatus, the labrum tear and two other tears. So I said, "Let me inject with ultrasound guidance." And she could not even put deodorant underneath her arm. She could not. She was limited. But she didn't want to have surgery because

She wanted to try this alternative way and there was no one to take care of her. Her husband passed away so she didn't have anyone to help her after shoulder surgery. So each month she came once a month and I've told her five times.

her movement with these peptides, I used BPC and Thymus and Beta-4. That's it. No stem cells, no exosomes, no growth factors, just peptides. I knew where the tears were, and I basically injected there. And each month, it just got better. By the third month, it's like, you know, you could see significant improvement. By the fifth month, I was telling her, I probably have to inject your good shoulder because you're going to realize you're

The damaged shoulder is going to get so well. So a year later, I mean, she did come back. She goes, you know, my good shoulder, I mean, the one that you injected feels like it's super young and she likes the golf. She goes, you got to fix my other one. That's amazing. So it's amazing. Yeah. I mean, it's regenerative. And I gave a talk. You just gave her once a month in the joint BP-157 and TB-4. Mm-hmm.

So, I gave a talk to traumatic brain injury to Mark Corden's workshop to healthcare providers. And I was talking about peptides to help the brain. And I kind of got off label and was talking about some of these interesting cases. And there was a retired Air Force orthopedic, he was like a captain in the Air Force, and he got up, put his finger in my face.

And he goes, damn you, you're going to ruin the orthopedic careers. And I say, yes, me by myself is going to ruin all these orthopedics. No, you can be educated and offer this to your patients. So I'm excited. There is a doctor that graduated from the Dominican Republic, and he found me, and he goes, I want to become an orthopedic surgeon, and I need to get something published. And my dad's an orthopedic surgeon. And it's like,

in Miami. It's like, "Oh, so we've been talking, we have two clinical trials. He needs to get IRB approval." I go, "I don't need IRB approval. I don't have anything to prove, but I think for your future career, you should get IRB approval." And I told him, "What are some sites you can go to? And hopefully we can get this quickly approved and start to study." That's amazing. Because one is we're going to do MRIs before the knee injury, like ACL.

And then do a month into the knee for like three times, like once a month for three times, and then in six months repeat the MRI.

Now, I did a study published and it was a subject of people recalls, they didn't feel better. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But orthopedic surgeons want to see. Yeah, yeah. For example, heel and meniscus that's torn? Yeah. My mother had a partial meniscus tear and I actually, I flew to Pennsylvania because she was getting...

I couldn't figure out how bad it was. And when I saw the airport, it was like, "Oh, Houston, we have a problem." She couldn't even turn like 180. It was like just really slow. And so when I got home, I injected her and then... Did that go in any joint or just around the joint? Yeah, in the joint. It has to be in the joint. Yes. You could try around, but the best is in the joints. It's easy to... I mean, anyway.

For me, it's relatively easy. Yeah, yeah. But the thing is that I injected later. That was October, and then Thanksgiving, I was there and injected. So I flew back to Pennsylvania, and then Christmas time, I injected her. And, I mean, Christmas time, she didn't need a third injection. But she goes, once you're here, just inject me. So my mother is now a peptide junkie. And for osteoarthritis, too, would it help? Yes, it can help a little. It can.

Dr. Yeah. And they did studies in animals with arthritis. They induced arthritis in the paws and gave BPC, and it has reduced the… Dr. The regrowth cartilage?

I think to regrow, you do need the stem cells. Yeah, stem cells. So last thing I want to sort of just touch on, you know, the sourcing and finding peptides and finding practitioners and safely doing this because it's a bit of a wild west out there. So people are getting it off of unregulated websites and, you know, you don't really know what you're getting and there's not really, there's risk to it. So how, one, how do you, how do you sort of, you know,

find the right practitioner and use the right compounding pharmacies to find the right peptides? Well, on our Clinical Peptide Society, we do have practitioners who've taken the, quote, they passed their tests. So they've had training. They have training. So anyway, they basically have the essential knowledge on how to use peptides, and they basically do a lot of peptides in their practice. So you can look at per state where they are located. And anyway,

I don't know all the doctors in America or

But I do know some people that I deal with. But we usually, I mean, there's only about 20 compound pharmacies that are 503A that produce sterile injectables. So 503A means it's good for human use and it's regulated by the FDA. Exactly. State inspected and all that. State inspected and you can be confident in the compounds that are coming from those. And they check for basically third-party inspection for...

Basically, any mold or bacteria. And you list those on clinicalpeptidesociety.com? I don't even know all the 20. I have several, but I don't know all 20. To me, I know most of them, but don't know all 20.

know all of it but i don't list it all there but i will give you a personal list what i use so but so basically you have to find someone who understands the science behind it who knows how to use them appropriately for example what you're sharing is you know some of these you only take for 10 days twice a year or some of them you take you know you take periodically or i'd love for you to take my class i mean yeah i can give you the next level

Okay, great. I'm coming. I'm coming. So I think this has just been such an enlightening discussion. I think people can learn more about your work by going to clinicalpeptidesociety.com. Definitely sign the petition and say peptides.org. And of course, you can check out Dr. Lee's books, The Fountain of Youth with Peptides, and his new one called... Is that the one? That's the newest one. That's the newest one. Yeah. So this has really been a fabulous conversation. I've learned a lot. And I think...

While not everybody can easily access these compounds, it's something to kind of explore, particularly if you have certain conditions and issues that really respond well to this, as we talked about. And not all peptides are injectables. There are peptides that you can take by mouth. Orally. Orally. And there is a booth here at this show called Healthgevity.

And it's only through doctors. So if they have an account with Healthgevity, I'm kind of helping him. Kind of

with that journey. So we're kind of, I get no royalties. Yeah, so it's true that your PEMFES can really help the gut healing like BP 157 and other. So yeah. So I hit some pretty cool products there. Great. Well, thanks for your dedication in this field, for educating all of us, for writing the book, for teaching the courses, for fighting the fight against the FDA. I really appreciate it. I feel like I have the flag up the mountain. Yeah.

Well, thank you so much for what you do and hope everybody loved listening to this podcast. And thanks for being on The Doctor's Pharmacy. Yes. Thanks. Pleasure. Thanks for listening today. If you love this podcast, please share it with your friends and family. Leave a comment on your own best practices on how you upgrade your health and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And follow me on all social media channels at DrMarkHyman. And we'll see you next time on The Doctor's Pharmacy.

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This podcast is separate from my clinical practice at the Health and Wellness Center and my work at Cleveland Clinic and Function Health, where I'm the chief medical officer. This podcast represents my opinions and my guests' opinions, and neither myself nor the podcast endorses the views or statements of my guests. This podcast is for educational purposes only. This podcast is not a substitute for professional care by a doctor or other qualified medical professional.

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