What Would Jack Do? | "Jack Pearson's Son" (S1E15) with special guest Alexandra Breckenridge
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On today's episode of That Was Us, we'll be discussing Season 1, Episode 15, Jack Pearson's Son. Kevin stresses about the premiere of his play. Randall struggles under the pressure of his work and his ailing father. Rebecca and Jack's Valentine's Day doesn't go as planned. Toby and Kate decide to get to know each other's biggest secrets. Mandy.

- Yeah. - Hello. - Mandy's like, by the time this comes out, she'll have had a third child. - I will have a child. - But it's there. - I know. - How are you feeling? You feel good? - She's good, yeah. - You ready for her to be? - I'm ready for her to make her appearance. Yeah, we're like over nine months now. It's like, if you're cooked, let's get the show on the road. - She's too comfortable. - It reminds me, we were shooting season six or season five when the first comes.

And you had like this coat on one day. Oh, yeah. And just belly. Yeah. Just. And you're almost there. What was funny about the show was I remember like going back in early COVID days, like September of 2020, and I was like five, five and a half months pregnant or something. And like I got to be pregnant, but like way more pregnant. Sure. So it was fun to like jump around with the show. It's like sometimes I got to be pregnant with Tripp.

- Did you have to have a fake belly over your real pregnant belly? - Yes, I did. - Hysterical. - I had a fake prosthetic belly over my real belly. - Bizarre. - Yeah, what a weird world. - What a weird job we have. - We were just saying, just like we started the show, Mandy Moore had no children.

I had two. I was the only one with two, I think. Yeah. Because Justin has his older. Yeah. And then now you got, Sully has tied me. Yeah. Mandy is now left. Now in the lead. Three under four. Three under four. Three children under four. You were trying to replicate the big three experience as closely as possible? Apparently. With two sons and a daughter? Exactly. I bet they have those little knit onesies somewhere in the- I know. We should try to find them. Yeah.

- Contact someone from the props department. - I saw Lyric the other day. - Like in person. - Lyric will be 21 years old. - No. - Wow. - And we'll get to that later, obviously. - Sure, sure. - But she was 13. - Wow. - My son is 13. My son is the age that Lyric was when I first met her. - Wow.

Right? And so I have pictures of her with like her hair cut and just like cupid doll, what have you, you know, with faith and air. It's strange because it feels, since the show was a reenactment

realistic television show. It wasn't a sci-fi. It wasn't a fantasy. Sure. It's like, it feels like another life. It does. Yeah. Like a different life that I lived before I was born. Sure. You know what I mean? Well, and it's such a time capsule because you, remarking on Lyric, I just, I was looking through Instagram the other day and saw Mackenzie who played young Kate. Who's taller than all of us now. And who is

in her senior year of high school. She was eight. Oh my gosh. I know. I know. I'm like, what is time? It's wild. And these kids are, I saw a beautiful picture of Eris on Instagram too. And I'm like, they've just grown into these beautiful, like young adults. And it's wild to not be a part of their journey in the same way anymore, but to be able to, you know, be on the other side and just sort of

wishing them well. It's amazing. I feel like I've raised daughters. These children aren't mine. Sure, sure. They have parents of their own. But I was like, well, I know what it's like to raise daughters because I'm trying to spread them.

I mean, you went through a lot. You went through a lot with them. We went through a lot. It's not wrong. Totally wrong. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. We should probably talk about this episode. This episode. 115. This episode has always kind of like stayed with me. I remember when it aired initially, like the impact it had. There was a huge conversation around mental health and, you know, the episode that Randall sort of suffers and –

Not to give anything away, but how his brother sort of swoops in and saves the day. Yeah. And their journey as brothers. It just – it was a really, really –

surprisingly, like, emotionally impactful episode. I remember at the time and it still hit that way watching it now. Yeah. Yeah, I read an article this morning on anxiety. Yeah. And on how it affects men and women differently and how we process it differently. And it was just, I was just reading the article as it, kind of as it related to the conversation I was about to have with you two. And I thought it was so interesting that this episode

like focuses on everyone's anxiety like it's it's like you clearly have randall has this this breakdown but kevin and kate are all left with this anxiety and as we continue to talk about this show you know as a handbook for living i think it's it it might all come down to how well we all

deal with anxiety. The anxiety that we have. The tools that we are given by our parents to help us along or the work that we do or the therapy that we have or whatever it is to deal with our anxiety. Or else it comes out sideways or it gets coped with rather than dealt with. And so this was just a really interesting focused episode on anxiety and how people are constantly focusing

fighting it off or trying to deal with them. It was... Yeah, and how it manifests itself in different ways. Yeah. And it can come out sideways in addiction. It can come out sideways in anger or... Resentment. Resentment or a full emotional breakdown, whatever the thing is. But yeah, this was a really like...

condensed focused episode of like, oh, here are three children who've been through something. Yeah. And Toby tries to kind of poke at that story again in this episode. Like, so what happened? You know? Yeah. Toby is kind of, when it comes to what happened to Jack Pearson, he lives where the audience lives. Yeah, that's absolutely. Because he still isn't clear on what exactly happened.

But it's a reminder as he asks about it in this episode that there are these three children who are left to deal with whatever happened in their own different ways. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Can we delve, let's delve into Katobi. I think that's a good entree into that. We start with Kate giving the gas face to the dude. - Right.

Tells him off. Duke. Tells him off. I was like, that's enough of Duke. Yeah. We're done with you, sir. So you're a little too brusque for us. Let's go on about our business. And he gets her kicked out because his family runs the thing in the jigger. And we're like, okay, cool.

Kate comes to see Toby at the hotel and she's like surprised and Toby's brushing his teeth like, "I don't know exactly how I'm feeling about this interaction right now because you kicked me to the curb." And I was telling Yusel before, Toby does a wonderful job of expressing how he feels when he feels it.

You know what I'm saying? A lot of us will hold on to stuff and be like, "Oh, never mind. It's all good. Don't worry about it." And then later, you're like, "You know when you kicked me out?" - Yeah. You remember that? - Yeah. You say it in that moment. Like, "That wasn't cool. Made me feel a certain way about myself." I was just like, in a very real way, one of the most emotionally mature characters that we've seen on the show, I think, at this point in time in the history of the show. - That's such a good point. I am not like that.

You're not. I'm not. I think I take a while to like metabolize something, to process something, and then I can have a conversation about it. Okay. I feel like I'm partnered up with someone very much like Toby who is like, who is comfortable enough and really like insistent upon like when they feel something in the moment or want to have a conversation or their feelings have been hurt, like...

they're ready to have that conversation. I am not. That's not you. No. That's not your wheelhouse. Are you guys? Rach is the same as you. Yeah. It takes her a long time to process. And I may be kind of the same, but I'm more, I'm not even processing. I'm just stuffing. Yeah.

And, and which is not good, but Rach and I very recently, we had a state of the relationship. We did, we took Sterling's advice. I texted you immediately after. You did text me. We took a night away, one night. And we went to this place and I, and I texted, I'll tell you guys about it too, this hotel with this spa treatment. And, and we just had like 24 hours of like,

No talking about the kids, no talking about work, no talking about the renovations. Just us very loving, but also very like,

all right we need to knock it off like we need here are the things that need to change sure type conversations and we very recently started getting into the into the very much like trying not to process trying to process in the moment and be like i don't like that whatever just happened there i don't like it i don't like it and we try to keep it light yeah we try to keep it playful yeah and it doesn't always work uh-huh but it it's really exciting i like that like it's like it's because it's because it's

there's an adrenaline rush to it. - Yeah. - Because you're like, it's like skydiving emotionally. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - You're like, "Yeah, here we go." I don't like, whatever that tone was, I don't like that tone. And I don't know why I don't like it because I haven't had time to process it, but I don't like it. - But I'm just saying it. - I'm just saying it and we should talk about it now. And it's exciting in that it's the unknown and maybe it's not the norm for us. - Sure. - But it is, it's maybe a change we're trying to make.

I would say rise like you two. Which I find very interesting because it feels like Taylor, Sully and myself are probably, interestingly enough, I feel like role reversals in most relationships, it's the dude who holds on a little bit longer. - You're right. - I am the sensitive flower in our relationship. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. The bird represents the masculine in this particular way. She's like, "I don't wanna talk about it." And I'm like, "Well, why not?"

- Yeah, yeah. - Yes. - Yeah, yeah. It's very like, I can be, what's the matter? Nothing. No, no, no, something's the matter. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. - And it does take her a minute. I will say this, in 18 years of marriage, there were moments early on where it would take a week. - Yeah.

- That now takes a day. - Got it. - Yes. - You know what I'm saying? And like, so she'd walk around for a week and I'd be like, okay, we're not gonna talk about it when you're ready. - Yeah. - Okay. - You'll come to me. - Now it takes about a day. And I'm like, okay, cool. - For Rach and I, it started, it took six years and now it takes a couple of hours. - I love it.

- I love it. - Back to the thing, 'cause you just said you wanted to get to know each other better. Like you felt like there's so many things that were happening and things happen so fast. Like, can we get a chance to like really sort of explore and ask each other questions? Which I find, I was listening to this thing, Esther Perel on my Instagram feed was talking about earlier in relationships,

There's this curiosity. There's this literal sort of deflowering, whether we're talking about intimacy or not. But you're just sort of like opening yourself up to a person to get to know each other. And it's exciting and stuff. And at a certain point in time in the relationship, that curiosity becomes muted. Yeah. Or you're sort of taken for granted. Life sort of intervenes and children have to be taken care of. And that curiosity that you have for your partner sort of becomes lessened to a certain extent. Yeah. And I'm trying to like make sure that that doesn't happen over. Sure. You know what I mean? Like...

We're different people now than when we first got together. The core is still the same or whatever, but you know, we learn different things. We read different books. We see different things. I need to still be curious about you and I hope that you're still curious about me. It's vulnerability foreplay. Yeah. That's like the hot take. Hot take. That you slowly get guarded against, you know,

death by a thousand paper cuts. Like you kind of wound each other a million times in little tiny ways. You eventually just go, you know what? I'm not telling you anything anymore. Sure. Keep it buttoned up. You know enough. You know all you need to know. Yeah. Yeah.

You don't even know anymore. But resisting that, like you're talking about, is the important part. Yeah. Staying curious. Yeah. So, okay. So you guys go... Real quick, side note, before we get too far past the toothbrushing scene, I've told you the story. I remember this. Actor's lesson. If you ever wonder why, when you see actors on TV and they're brushing their teeth, they're just finishing. They're just like...

in the sink and then they wash their mouth out and they're like I brushed my teeth not Chris Sullivan Chris Sullivan's like I'm gonna brush my teeth through this whole conversation because that's how conversations happen and I used real toothpaste yeah and if you do that for 30 minutes oh boy all of the skin on the inside of your mouth will fall off gone gone I remember

You're like, I burned my mouth. I'm like second degree burned. Your cheeks will shluff off. And I didn't ever think I would ever use the word shluff on this podcast, but I'm using it today. So be warned. I guess toothpaste works. Toothpaste works. Too well. A little too well. Don't leave it in there too long. Yeah. Okay. Moving on. Got it. You make the decision to know each other better. And so you guys wind up, because you have to get an outfit for opening night of the play.

- Yes. - Which is the first intersection here is your sense of style along with Toby's. - Yeah. - Similar. Is this you? Is this Harlow? - Harlow. Totally independent that the costume department was like, we're gonna make this guy kind of overly flashy. - And let's say like when Sully hits the red carpet, he goes hard. - Yes. - I try to. There are hits and misses, but I go hard nonetheless. - You take the swing. - I take the swing. - Yeah, always.

Yeah, you can Google it. There have been articles that have put all the looks next to each other. The wins and the losses. Awesome. But yeah, the worst part about this is that Toby in season one is getting all this amazing clothes and I can't wear any of it. Can't wear any. Because the sizes are so far off. I feel you. Yeah, so we go and we get to know each other. And there's questions that are being asked. There's a couple of things that I wanted to ask you guys.

First celebrity crush for you guys? That was a question that was asked in the episode. Gillian Anderson. X-Files Gillian Anderson? X-Files Gillian Anderson. I was like 13 or 14 when that show came out, and I was like... Scully. Scully did it. Scully. Scully did it.

Just a nerdy, like, cold FBI agent. Yeah, man. I don't know. Manny Moore? Joey McIntyre from New Kids on the Block. Really? Yeah, yeah. I was little, but I was like, I had his Barbie doll. Yeah, I had his doll with the rat tail. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. The rat. The rat tail did it for me. I remember how quickly...

How quickly I loved that cassette tape and how quickly something happened socially where I was like, Dad, forget that cassette tape. I don't like when kids all walk. I don't know all the dance steps. I'd do it right now. I could do them right now. My first. Dolly Parton. Really? Yeah. The boobs did it for you? Hold on, how? Hold on.

I mean, probably nine to five. Nine to five. Nine to five. Krasinski to the camera. Nine to five. I was just like. All right. I was just, you know. Have you ever listened to the song Jolene and thought about how beautiful Dolly Parton was when she was young and thought, how beautiful is Jolene? How did she take her man? Like if she can easily take her man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It had to be something. Then you guys get into.

she asked you about the suicide. - Yes. - Because you had mentioned to her before that you had thoughts about that. And so she was sort of sitting on it for a minute, got to it. And so then the next one, you guys are grabbing a bite to eat.

You didn't try to obfuscate or hide. You said, like, this is where I was in my life. I had depression as a young man. At the point of the divorce, I had reached an all-time low. I didn't have to go buy a gun or anything, but I did look at the pain pills I had left over from the surgery and wondered, would this be enough? And I thought it was so...

you ask the question, I'm going to give you the answer. Yeah. You know what I mean? Instead of having to do anything else. Yeah. The painful kind of reality of where I was at in my life when this show started, best of times, worst of times. I had just started therapy. I had just started exploring these things.

with myself because I had experienced the same things. Suicidal ideation, anxiety, depression, things like that. Never again. This is why the show was so spooky for me to experience because the writers would deliver these things and I'd be like, they're in my head. I just had this conversation two days ago with my therapist. And it was like a really interesting low point in my life where, and I think that this is why people...

People have a hard time talking about anxiety, suicide, suicidal ideation, depression, because it scares people. Yeah. Maybe not the person talking about it, but the people who are being told about it. Sure. And that makes people not want to talk about it. Yeah. And that makes people feel alone with it. Right. And...

i found that the the key for me is is to talk about it whether it's through therapy or with friends or family or whoever whoever is whoever is whoever i have in my life who is emotionally capable of listening sure without without making it about them yeah you know um because there was the way i experienced it in my personal life was not that i wanted to to end my life but that

everybody else would be better off if I just disappeared. If I was just like, and I think the more I talk about it and the more I've talked about it to other people, that that is a more common thing

Feeling. Way of feeling. And the only thing close to that feeling is suicide. Right. So, yeah. So, it was an odd... The reason the conversation was so easy and blunt in the show is because I was like, I've been having this conversation for the last six months in therapy. Yeah. And again, I was never in danger of committing suicide. I was never in that place. But these thoughts are...

are happening and for certain people they can get obsessive and they can become they become a bigger issue man I love you yeah I love you you're just you're just freaking naked your vulnerability is just you're naked with clothes on son look at you

I mean, they're getting shorter and shorter. You are. You're wearing some dukes. I like them. They're right up. Well, look, if you got the gams. Come on now. They're looking good. So, okay. So let's counterpoint that character-wise, Toby, with Kate. Because you said like, okay, you asked me this question. I have a question that I would like to know too. Yes. Every once in a while we bring up your dad and how he passed away and whatnot. And I don't have the full story there.

Would you mind sharing? Yeah. And she says, okay. And this was like a beautiful Mets moment. Yeah. Because I don't even know how she really does it, to be perfectly honest with you, because she starts, like she really wants to talk and can't. Yeah. Yeah. And you can see it, like in her eyes, she's like, I really want to. I love you and you should know about it. I just can't.

Can't do it. And there was such grace because you're like, okay, well, when you're ready, you let me know. And she was like, okay. And the way that you guys were able to conclude this thing, because this could have gone snarky. This could have gone like, well, if you can't tell me this, then I don't know if we should be together. That wasn't the tone in which like right before you go into the play, you're like, listen,

I've been thinking about it. Things have been moving really fast and whatnot. I feel like the person that I marry should be able to tell me anything, right? So how about we enjoy being engaged to each other and not rush it and get to know each other as much as possible. And then when we're ready, we'll go to the water park because that's my jam. Yeah.

and we'll make it go down just that way. - I loved that it didn't feel like a punishment. - That's what I'm saying. - You know what I mean? It wasn't just sort of, it wasn't petty like, oh, well you're not gonna tell me your side of the story, then guess what? We're not getting married. - Yeah. - Yeah. Yeah, I mean, the writers handle him very gently and they handle that relationship very well. And like we talked about earlier, it's Toby in a lot of ways,

is the closest thing in the show to a surrogate for the audience. - Yes. - Sure. - Like he's watching the Pearsons. - Yeah. - And he can see the Pearsons and he can see them clearly because he's not, he's an outsider. - Not one of them. - Yeah. - Yeah. - And he can see Kevin and he can see you and he can, you know, and he kind of pops in and once in a while is like, "See you, I see you." - Right. - And it's, and so as the audience is like, we forget right now is dying to know-- - For any morsel of information. - What happened to Jack Pearson.

they know that Toby is like scratching at that storyline. Tell him. Tell the boy. He wants to know. More That Was Us after this short break.

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Let's do Jack and Rebecca. Sure. Back in the day...

Rebecca is going on tour. About to go on tour. And Jack is resentful. Not feeling it, is he? No. He's not feeling it so much. He's trying to feel it. He is. He's doing the best that he can to be supportive. Mandy's making a face. Yeah, I mean. He's trying to be a 2020 husband, but he's a 1980 husband. You know what I mean? Correct. He's like doing his best to like, yeah, yeah.

That sounds good. Yeah, go have fun. Yeah, it is very thinly veiled. Very thinly veiled. But here's the thing. At the beginning of the episode, I'm wondering if you have this with Taylor or if you have this with, or Rachel has this with you. When my wife goes out of town for work, which happens from time to time, I'm often left feeling like she's like, you're not going to kill my children, are you?

And I'm like, "No, no, I'm not gonna kill your children." And she's like, "Are you sure you're not gonna kill my children?" And I'm like, "No, no, your children will be alive. They will have done homework. They will be well nourished, et cetera." And she's like, "I don't know if you know how to do that." And I'm like, "No, no, no, I can do it. I can totally do it." And I'm wondering if you guys experienced that at all in your marriages with your kids. 'Cause mothering and fathering do look slightly different. - Sure.

but everything that needs to get done gets done. - Yes. - Yes, correct. - Yes. - I trust that it will. - You trust that it will. - Oh, 100%. Things are done a little differently. I'm like, I...

I like to set up breakfast the night before. You know, like, I like to wake up early and get the lunch made and stuff. Sure, sure, sure, yeah. But, like, however you need to do whatever your process is, like, I respect that. And I totally trust that, like, it's all going to. Okay. I've really been working on, like, my game is.

If I don't like the way something is being done, I should do it myself. Yeah. And I should do it myself without resentment. Yeah. Like I should be like, no, no, I think, and without conversation. Yeah. Like not like, let me, without comment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. Let me show you how this is supposed to go. Oh, that's the worst. Yeah. Like if I don't like the way the dishwasher's loaded, then rearrange it. Just do it yourself. Yeah. And don't do it huffy and don't do it by, who loaded this? What?

Who loaded this dish for us? Clankety clankety. Yeah, a real loud dish. Clankety clankety. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So everybody knows I'm moving dish. None of that. And I think Rach and I are starting to get to a point where we can both do that. That's beautiful. Because we clearly do, we like to do things very differently. Sure. And we've, and you know, as you, as your marriage or your parental roles evolve, it's like kind of,

assignments happen. Yeah. Like, you take care of this, I'll take care of this. But you don't really talk about it. It just happens that way. But yeah, when I go out of town, it's a little, there's a little more anxiety now. So when Rach goes out of town, I can tell, I can tell how she feels about me going out of town when she goes out of town. Okay. Where she's like, really thankful and very like, she's, she's worried that I'm

feeling some resentment. So she's like trying to take care of that. And I'm like, everything's fine. Everything's fine. Yeah. But yeah, we're, we're slowly learning how to do all that, especially with kiddos. Okay. That's what that opening scene reminded me of because you had writing everything down. She has a laundry list of things that like need to get done. And I think she does take care of that stuff normally. And it's like, he, he doesn't assume this role often if at all.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not that he's not a present father and all of that stuff. But it's like, I think she runs the ship. And so like the fact that she is leaving, leaving for this amount of time, like this is pretty unheard of. Yeah, yeah. So she wants to like be as organized and make it as easy as possible. And especially for that time in the world. Yeah. For a mom to hit the road.

with her band as a unique- - They were more traditionally defined roles. - Yeah, correct. - Yeah, yeah. Especially with someone she used to hook up with. - Which we didn't, okay, yeah. - Which we didn't know. - Which we didn't know, but we'll get to it. We'll get to it. So next week, I think we see Jack and Miguel.

at work and they're talking and everything. And he's telling her like, "Why she got to go on the road?" Like, you know, what she thinks she's doing. What she thinks she's doing. Something along those lines, right? And Miguel's like, "Dude, it's not that big of a deal. Like everything's going to be fine." Miguel is just, he's like, "Look, I'm divorced.

Like, can we go kick it? He's like, well, why don't you come? This episode is called Jack Pearson's Son. It should be called Jack Pearson's Best Friend. It's great! Yeah. I feel like this was a real turning point for...

Well, maybe for some people, but in terms of the perception of Miguel. Miguel delivers. I think so, absolutely. It was beautiful. Yes. So we see him back in the day, and they decide to go out. He's getting flirted with by this brunette woman, and he winks and waves at the same time. He's like, should I wink or wave? He goes, I didn't vote. I think it was too much. He's so dumb. Like, John West is so dumb.

- He's so dumb and so delightful. - He's a classically trained clown. - He really is. - Yes, yes. - The way his comedy is old, it's like black and white silent film. He's so good. - Yeah.

So Mandy's up on stage. They're singing, what's the song we're singing right now? Sam Cooke's song, Bring It On Home To Me. Bring It On Home To Me. You and Sam are doing your thing. Quick anecdote about this song. Go. I think I've told you guys this. I've told you this before. I don't know if I've told you this before. What you don't know about Sam Cooke's Bring It On Home To Me is that Chris Sullivan sings backup on that song. You do? No, I do not. But when you go to listen to that song,

And you hear the backup singer come in behind Sam Cooke. Yeah. Even if you've never heard me sing, you're like, that's Chris Sullivan. Wow. Are you serious? That is Chris Sullivan. Wait, on the original? On the original. Okay, we'll listen to the original version of Sam Cooke's. I want you to play it after we finish recording this just so I can hear it. Okay. I can hear it in my head and I feel like I know what you're talking about. Uh-huh. Yeah. That one. Yeah. It's me. It's me. Hold on. Let me see. Hold on.

- It's wild. - It's wild. - Oh my God! - It's wild. - He just played it for us, so you can watch the part where he played, but oh my God, it sounds like you. - We'll edit it out, but you all can go find it.

It's why somebody else pointed it out to me. They sent me the song. Like, are you singing backup on Bring It On? Oh, my God. And I was like, that can't be. Can't be. This is amazing. It's amazing. One word. Okay. But it does sound like you. Anyway. So anyway. Anyway. So Jack is sort of watching. The dynamic on stage. The dynamic on stage. And he's not feeling it.

Because, and Miguel says, "Hey man, it's just part of the shtick." You know what I'm saying? - He senses something. - He senses something, right? Which is really interesting because we're all married to people who sort of understand like our artistic journey and like that's part of it. Like my wife rarely trips over anything that happens on camera with somebody, what have you. But Jack does not understand that world. - No, no, no, no, no. - And he's like, "I don't like what I see," right?

So then it's later, Miguel takes off. He goes to flirt with a girl and everything like that. So he's sort of left stewing by himself. Is the next scene we see with them, is it Sam coming over to talk to him? - Yes. - Yeah. - He comes over to talk to him. He's like, "Hey Jackie, I haven't made it out to many of these things. It's good to see you." He's like, "Yeah, man, no problem."

And I was like, man, isn't Rebecca great? She's awesome. Like, can't wait to get her on the road again. Like back in the day when we were together, like, you know, she never would have thought about getting married, et cetera. And Jack's like, what was that? Let me tell you something. I don't want to cross Milo Ventimiglia. Correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I may be a little bigger.

- No, no, the look in his eye. - I don't want to cry. - No, and it's like the record stopping, the record scratch, like, excuse me? - And he's like, I thought you knew. He's like, yeah, don't worry about what I knew and what I didn't know. - That's between me and him. - What a response. - You don't worry about what I knew. - I was like, it's time to go. - Even if I did know that, you don't frame a conversation when we were together. - That's between me and my wife.

So then he's like, okay, man. I'll see myself out. And then here comes Rebecca. Are we going to O'Houlihan's? What's the name of the place? I don't remember. O'Donnell's, O'Houlihan's. When it gets smashed? Irish. And he's like, you know, actually, I just want to go home. No. And you're like... Their little Thanksgiving, their Valentine's Day tradition has been squashed and...

I was like, what a poor sport. Talk about someone who should in the moment be able to bring up like, hold on, let's just get this out of the way so we can go enjoy our evening. And the anti-Toby. Yeah, the anti-Toby. Although they have big grand gestures, but no. But to be fair, there is a difference between our business. If I did a movie. Yeah.

And had a love interest. Sure. That's one thing. Right. If this love interest and I dated in high school or college and I didn't tell Rachel, that's a different... Facts! It is a different story. Oh, here we go. Sure. But I also understand Rebecca's perspective of like,

- It seemed to me like this was a casual relationship that turned into, it was something for a couple months and then it was like-- - It was two months when I was 19. - Monica's about to go on the road with someone she had sex with once. This is, and she knows, and she knows-- - She knows who she's married to, that is correct. - He knew that. She's not going on tour.

Yeah. Which is stuff. Which is, okay. Yes. So let's get to this conversation. Next thing you know, we're back at the house. You're like, Jack, you're not talking. You're being real weird. What's going on? He's like, how come I had to find out that you wound up dating this dude back in the day? And you're like, it was nothing, bro. Like, it was nothing. It was nothing. It was so long ago. So long ago. She was 19. She's 30-something now. No, I'm in my 40s. We've been together.

We have three kids. Yeah, 40 something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is ancient history, right? But Sully has a 40. Sure. Yeah.

There are points all around. Listen, everybody has a point. Everyone has a point. But you have a point too. It's like, look, man, I've put everything on hold for the past 16 years so that I can make sure that my family was well taken care of. Right? I finally get something that's just for me. And I knew if I said something, you would do what you're doing right now.

Like that's why I didn't say it. Point proven. This is important to me that I start to prioritize myself in a way that I haven't had a chance to for over a decade. That's right. You know what I'm saying? And so everybody has a point. I'm getting that. Yes.

It's just, oh God, this stuff makes my heart hurt. It's hard to watch them in this place. Yeah. It gets brutal over the next few episodes. It really does. And this is like the start of it all. You see that train starting to like chug along and you're like, oh no, this is headed to a bad place. This handbook for living is going to lead to divorce for somebody in this show. Yeah. Yeah.

And it better not be Jack and Rebecca. Better not be Jay and our man. People are like, this is not going the way we want it. Not at all. Because then he tries to forbid you. And you wind up coming up with a bar. I can't remember the exact line, but it was like, you know, I just wanted something without you getting in the way. To which you see hurt Jack, which is, I never imagined myself being in the way. There you go, get some air. That's good. That's good.

Perfect. Nailed it. But it was like, it's like she let it live. And I got it. I got a sense for a second. I was like, I don't want to fight with Mandy Moore. Yeah. Either one. I don't want to fight with neither one of them two people.

- Wow. - Because when it comes, I was like, it may hit you like, "Ooh!" 'Cause it hit me. I felt it as a dude, like, "Oh, am I in the way?" I was like, "Oh, I'm getting in the way." - Yeah. - Yeah. - Let's jump into Kev and- - Let's do Kev. - Storyline. And Kevin and Miguel and- - Yeah. Kev is nervous. And like,

I relate so hard to Kev because he's the actor and like a lot of people would be like, "Oh, you just like Randall, whatever." I was like, "No, I feel this Kev thing pretty acutely." Like my man has sort of upended his career. He's taken a major shot on himself. - Yes. - He knows that the perception of himself in the industry is not what he wants it to be and he's trying to recreate himself in this thing. And so he's nervous. - Right? - Yeah. - It's a huge gamble. - He's going around trying to talk to everybody, trying to sort of calm himself down.

He winds up calling Sophie.

And we find out that they are casually dating, right? Will she be able to make it to the play? I don't think, I'm not sure she is or not. I think she's gonna like say, she's like sneaking in. She's like, I don't need to like- I don't need to see everybody. See the whole family. We don't have to like promote this whole thing. Yeah. Is that later? That's in 117 when the play happens again. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Okay, okay. But in this one, she's like, maybe I might make it because she's got to shift. He tells her, oh, so before this-

Let's give a big shout out to Katie mother effing Kirk. So incredible. Katie Kirk, you killed it. Yes. She murked that scene so hard. She was so just like, so you're like this pretty boy who wound up sleeping with your lead actress. And then after you slept with the lead actress, slept with the playwright.

Then when it fell through, decided to self-finance it because you want to be taken serious as an actor. She's like, why am I here? Can I get, I got to go play tennis with Tomlin Rush. She was ice cold. Katie Kirk, we need more acting from you. It was gorgeous. Gorgeous. He wakes up, calls up and she's like, did you just have the Katie Kirk dream again? He's been having it for years.

Katie Couric's the reason he wants to be taken seriously. So he talks to her. He tries to call Kate. I don't think he's able to connect with his sister. He goes to his brother's office, which will intersect with Randall and I'll try to make it through this as quickly as possible. But he's just looking for touchstones, people to tell him it's going to be okay. Yeah. Right? And we see through this whole episode, the flashbacks of the two of these brothers trying to

reach each other through their whole life. Yeah. One struggling, the other one having an opportunity to help and deciding not to. Yeah. This is a good point because going back to that timeline, they all come home, the three of them, the chit-chat and whatnot. And then Kate runs up saying to Kev, like, you're just like happy or whatever because you and Sophie are finally having sex. To which Rebecca comes around the corner like, what?

That was a, you don't have to, and I was like, it reminded me, this is one of those moments because the next part of that part was Jack Pearson saying, so condoms, respect. And they're like, Jack, we don't have to have this conversation right now. So mortifying. Real quick, who had the sex talk with you? God. Nobody. No one. Nobody. No one. Yeah. That's usually how it goes. You? Yeah. Nobody. The sex talk was don't have it.

There it is. That was my sex talk. My father passed away when I was 10, 'cause he would have had it with me. He would have really been like, "All right, let's have a heart-to-heart." There's times in which when it first happened, I can actually hear him talking to me. My mom's conversation with me would be random interjections of, "You know fornication is a sin, right?" Right, okay. And I'd be like, "Okay."

- Yeah. - So nobody really had the sex talk. Okay, good times. - At least Jack did one level up. - Yeah, he really did. Handbook for living. - Garnet. - Respect. - Respect. Okay, so going back to Kev, he's trying to find somebody to talk to, goes to his mom's house. She's a fellow artist. She knows what it's like to have jitters, et cetera. - Artist to artist. - Artist to artist, but mom's not there. Who's in the house? - Miguel. - Big mix, right? And so he starts trying to explain things to him and Miguel's like, "Kevin,

Kevin, just calm down. You know what I'm saying? And he sort of lets him know that you're going to be fine. You remind me a lot of your father. And your father was the person that I would go and talk to when I was having a feeling. And so all you have to do is ask yourself, what would Jack do? He'd be okay. And he winds up saying, you know, when I look at you, I see him. I see my friend. He says, that's why it hurts me so much that you don't like me. That you don't like me.

Right? Because when I'm around you, I see my friend. Yeah. Yeah, and it's like I have my friend back. Yeah. The way you move your hands and everything. And you see Justin at the end of it. It's like, it's not that I don't, you know, like you, Miguel. And then he goes, well, you want to wait for your mom? And he's like, no.

I'm good. Miguel comes through. Miguel comes through. This is the importance of relationship, right? The relationships we have is if people know us well enough, we're talking about this, right? If we are vulnerable enough with these people, they are able to, in our moments of doubt, in our moments of anxiety, in our moments of not knowing, reflect back to us who we truly are. Yeah. And...

And the title of this episode, as it relates to Kevin's anxiety, is not even what would Jack do. It's like, you don't need to worry. You are Jack Pearson's son. So know this. And to have people in your life who can, in your...

be like, hey, this is okay, but know this. - You are enough. - About you. - Yeah. - Is just, it's the most, it's the most important thing. - It's really, it's massive.

It's massive. So he is going to his opening night. I love Justin doing like his vocal warmups and stuff. And he's like, you're going to suck. I can't remember what he said. You're going to bomb or something like that. And he winds up getting a phone call from his brother, from Randall. And Randall's like, hey, what's going on? And he's like, what do you need? And he's like, well, you just called me. And he's like, yeah, I'm not going to be able to come to the show tonight.

And he's like, well, you've known about it for a minute. He's like, well, you'll see it later, right? And he's like, all right, man, I gotta go. All right, take care. Oh, something is so off. Yeah, it's spooky. But also, just to sort of back up to the beginning of the episode with Randall, it's like we see Randall being overwhelmed with the running. With Kevin, we see shaky hands in the shower. Yeah.

The toll of the stress in Randall's life is very viscerally making itself apparent. Manifest itself physically. Yeah, and it's really discerning because it does harken back to what Beth says, I believe in the second episode to William or the third episode when she's like, you don't know my husband. My husband went blind. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like, oh, wow, we're seeing a glimpse into like,

this road that Randall is predisposed to perhaps go down. And it, again, you're just sort of like, I, being a voyeur and just like watching this, it's really hard. So let's dovetail Kev and Randall because we'll get back up. So Randall, as you said, man, a lot of stuff's happening right now. He's got work pressure because Sanjay's sort of moving in to his territory that

His father, since he's gone off the chemo, he had like a week of like a high. - And now things are down. - And now sort of he's kind of going down. He could barely stand up to wash his dish. Beth's mother took a fall, so she has to leave. The play is happening tonight. Randall has to get a nurse to stay with William to make sure everything's okay.

And so he gets to work. Something gets moved up that wasn't supposed to happen that day. You're unprepared. He gets there. He sees Kev. Can't keep up with his headset on his head. Has to go back home because William wound up locking the nurse out of the house because she wouldn't give him a Coca-Cola. He goes back home.

He says, "Look, man, if the man wants a Coke, let him have a Coke." But mortality is in front of him. Yeah. Imminent. It's like they both know it's going to happen or whatnot. He's just trying to buy as much time as he possibly can, right?

Goes back to work, late for that, has the meeting that's happening. The young lady who's in the meeting right there, Chris Marshall, is on the new show with me and Dan Fogelman, Paradise, which is really cool to see her in this one scene. And the guy's like, young lady, I don't need to hear any more about that. Just very sort of dismissively patronizing. And then Randall comes in with the figures, with the numbers. And this was a wonderful piece of direction from Ken Olin.

Because he was like, "I want you to think of it as an implosion." I think at first I was probably doing too much or showing too much. He's like, "Everything is happening internally and you can't stop it from happening, but it's like you are paralyzed."

but everything is still trying to like rumble about and it just has no sort of release for you. - Wow. - I remember like just sitting there and like wanting to, I know what I'm supposed to do in that moment. And I know what everybody expects me to do in that moment. And I can't do any of it, right?

And I remember it was the first time when Sanjay took the iPad where it was like an act of grace, not of a competition or trying to show up. He was just like, let me take this and sort of do what I could because I couldn't do anything. Then later on, we're in the office. He's there by himself trying to catch up with work or whatnot. And again, it's like...

There's so many things happening inside of him. It's those moments in life. What I relate to is you have somebody just ask you to do everything. Oh, you know you have to do this. You know you have to do this. You know you have to do this. And then because of that, I was like, I'm not going to do any of that stuff. That's too much. To even start. That's too much to even start. You know what I'm saying? And so he calls his brother and he's like, hey, man,

And he's like, what do you need? And he's like, you called me. And he's like, oh yeah, can't make it tonight. He's like, well, why not? You know, he's like, yeah. All right, bye. And it's so off and his brother can hear it. And as he's about to go on stage for the play,

And there's apparently like this big New York Times critic that like this could make or break the show, right? Absolutely. If this critic is in their seat and they're watching the show and they review the show well, like it could. Yep, make or break. And then Sloane says, what are you thinking about? He's like, I'm wondering what my dad would do. Yeah. Lights go down. Nice little piece of like, you know, Steadicam work. We follow her out into the dark. She says her opening line and turns to find Kevin Lowe.

Gone. Gone. Not there. Audience is like, what's happening? Is this part of the play? Is this part of the thing? As a viewer, when this first happened and I see my brother running down the street. Forget it. Fuck out of here, bro. I was done. Same. Done. Same. As an audience member. I was like, he left the show? And he's just sort of like going and he sees me in the thing just in the corner, not moving. And he just says, random.

And just hold me in a crumbling tune. As an audience member, I know I did it. I know we did it together. But I'm sitting there watching and I was like, thanks for loving me. Yeah. Yeah. I feel the same way. It was like...

I think that's like what I, that image of the two of you in my mind is what I think about when I think of this episode and the impact that it had. Yeah. And that moment, you're right. Like as soon as the lights come up and Kevin's not on stage and you just see that next shot of him running, it's like,

It's so unbelievable and yet totally believable and totally plausible. And it says everything about this family, everything about these brothers. And it shows the growth of the relationship because he spent his entire life not showing up for you. Right.

in one way or the other. - We see the flashback of Randall freaking out over this English paper that he has to write. And Kev's like, "I could go say something, but I'm just gonna go take a shower." - Makes a conscious decision to take off. - And he showed up. I know we're running out of time for that, but like that,

Yeah, that's one of those quintessential "This is Us" moments that I think it's him running those. I mean, the shot of you two is still in like, it's just in, it was in montages for all of our promos after that. Yeah, it's such an indelible image. It's just two men showing up, I mean, being with each other in a moment of-- Crisis, of need, of, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, what an episode. And I feel like it's such a great prelude to like,

We know there's, what, one, two, three, four episodes left in the season, and it's just like, where are we going? Yeah, things are changing. Or no, wait, 16, 17, 18. There's three episodes left. Things are changing. Things are changing. There is, like, big pieces moving. Yes. And it's going to be interesting to see. Do we know where to announce our guest? Oh, and today. Today. Today of all days. We're joined by...

Alexandra Breckenridge. We are indeed. Sophie herself. The incredible. We love her. We adore her. Can't wait to talk to her. Stay tuned. We'll be right back. More That Was Us after these words from our sponsors.

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80.

It's so nice to see you guys. It's so nice to see you too. You look good. Your eyebrow game is on point. Oh gosh. I've been really, you know, just, I let them, so I usually dye them lighter, but I've let them grow in because they're naturally black and I'm just trying them out. It's working for you, girl. The lips and the sweater and the cheeks. Pretty in pink over here. That's me. Where do we find you today?

I'm in Georgia. She's in Georgia. She got caught in her chicken coop. I saw that on Instagram. The other day. You should be able to have some way of getting out from the inside, shouldn't you? No. You don't want those chickens to get out. There's supposed to be a string attached.

There's supposed to be a string attached to the latch from the outside. Yeah. But I don't know. The string got broken off or something. So I just walk in there and then it closes behind me. I don't even. And I turn around and I was like. You spent three days eating raw eggs. How long were you in the chicken coop?

I wasn't actually in there for very long. I would say maybe like five, ten minutes. But I was screaming for my husband who was inside and he could not hear me because I didn't have my phone. But you also had a dude who walked by and who just left you. Yes, he was on a golf cart because we drive golf carts here in the South, apparently. And so this guy was driving down my road on the golf cart and I was like, hey. And he didn't look at me.

He could hear me. There's no way that man did not hear me. And he just drove on by. And I was like, I'm stuck in the coop. Ladies and gentlemen, if you see a woman trapped in a chicken coop, stop your golf cart. Do we need to do an official introduction? Yes, we should. Let's do this. Ladies and gentlemen, we're back with more That Was Us with our special guest, Alexandra Breckenridge, everybody. Hey, B, how are you doing today? Hi.

I'm doing great today. It's a great Sunday out here in Georgia. How are you? We're wonderful. We're reunited and it feels so good and happy to be talking to you and happy to be talking about all things Sophie. Yes. Oh, Sophie. So if we can, like what was the, was there an audition process? Was there an offer? How did Sophie first come across your desk?

Sophie, I was living in Georgia. I had moved to Georgia. Well, you know I read for Rebecca, right? No. I didn't know that. You talked about this? Yes, I saw her there. Oh, my gosh. Yes. Breaking news. I didn't know. Breaking news. Breaking news. Alexandra Breger, which also read for The World of Rebecca. No, but I was there, and we were testing that day with Milo, who had already been cast, and

And I had gone out, like I hadn't, I didn't live there. And I was going out trying to find a flowery, flowy dress. Cause I was like, that's Rebecca. And I couldn't find one for the life of me. And in walks Mandy with the dress. And I was like. With the flowery, flowy dress. Yes, she did. And I,

She immediately walked in and I was like, well, there's Rebecca. Oh, no. You were so nice. I remember Alex, I was like, oh, she's so like, you were so confident and comfortable in your skin and you were so chatty. And I am, yes, but in the nicest way that made me feel so comfortable because those auditions and callbacks and everything.

make me so uncomfortable. And I'm just like, I don't want to be here. I want to run away. And you immediately just like you were like your fault, Alex, you put her at ease. Oh, it's wonderful. I was so happy for I immediately when I saw her, I was like, I just said it was Rebecca. And so I was just like, well, I'm not getting this part. But whatever, that's fine. No, I mean, of course, I wanted the part. But you know how like,

You know when someone is that character. And Mandy is Rebecca. Rebecca is Mandy. Like, it's just not. You're very kind. It just wasn't even a thing. Well, you clearly made such a deep, deep impression on production and the powers that be because when this very pivotal role came up, how did it, like, come to you? You were working on another show at the time, right? No. Virgin River hadn't started yet. Oh, okay. Yeah.

Yeah, I moved to Georgia. I had just had my son, Jack. Okay. And so, but that was part of this, that's part of my point was that I had already tested for the show. So like the network saw me, the studio saw me and the whole rigmarole. And then Sophie came along. And so I put myself on tape for Sophie.

And I remember it was over Thanksgiving and I had just had my son in September. And yeah, I just had him. And so, you know, I mean, I framed up.

But I read with my husband. I actually just put this video on my Instagram because I came across it and I was like, oh, it's my audition for This Is Us. How funny. Oh, no way. Oh, we got to find it. Yeah, it's on my Instagram if you want to watch it. People make hysterical comments about my husband's acting. It's sad. I'm sure he's great. He's a musician. He's not an actor. Yeah, he's not an actor. He's not meant to be. No, but we laugh about it because I always say that

I would always tell him not to act because whenever he would try to act, it was so like, it would take me out of it. And I'd be like, please just don't, I can't. I used to do tapes with my mom and my mom thought that she was Meryl Streep. And I was like, ma, if you could just say the lines and she's like, well, if you want me to do it, I have to do it. Listen, Sterling, I had a, I had a, uh, somebody who used to help me go on tape and they would unknowingly, uh,

say their lines and then mouth my lines. Oh, no. Oh, I hate that. I actually had to stop somebody. I had to stop somebody in an actual audition. And everybody... It was a reader. And everybody looked at me like I had just been the world's biggest... Not going to say a word. But I was like...

I was like, you're mouthing my lines. I'm so sorry. I have to look at you while you're mouthing my lines. Yeah, that didn't work. Yeah, I'm like really distracted. Don't act, but don't not act. It's like...

So, okay. You sent in your tape. So I put myself on tape. I did three scenes and I really wanted the part. I mean, at this point, you guys were already on air. Yeah. And I got to see the show and really feel the tone of the show, which was so invaluable to have that. Sure, yeah. Yeah.

Cause sometimes you can get a role that could be read like 10 different ways. And I was able to like really grasp it. And I was just, I remember like waiting and it was Thanksgiving. It was going to be Thanksgiving. And I was like, it was like right before the holiday weekend. I was like, did that, they called yet? Like what's going on, please. And, and then I can't, I think they, they were like, I think they came back to me over the holiday and I was like,

I had to wait. Yeah. But I was so happy. I was really just thrilled with the part and the storyline between Kevin and Sophie I thought was so sweet. It was beautiful. Just so endearing. And did you have any idea like where it was going or that like it would be such a huge –

Part of Kevin's storyline, the fabric of the show, like just how deep it went. Like, did anybody sort of clue you into that initially or not really? No, no, not at all. No, no. And I know. So I didn't know where it was going. It was just sort of like, oh, we're going to you know, you'll be a regular for forever.

Was I even a regular the first season? I don't remember. Yeah, maybe. And then... Were you? And then they're like, oh, come back the second season. But then I got pregnant again with Billy. And then they sort of switched. I was actually originally supposed to be the one with the drug problem. Oh. Really? Oh, really? Yeah. Dan was like, so Sophie's going to have an issue with addiction. And I was like, okay, fun. Cool. Cool.

And then they decided not to do that. And they were like, okay, so no, Kevin is the one with the addiction now. Really? Yeah.

I had no idea. Isn't it funny how things just sort of like storylines weave and turn in different directions? So yeah, so then obviously Sophie couldn't hang around. And then I went and got Virgin River and then they called back and they were like, we'd like you to come back now. And I was like, I can't. They were like, about that, real quick. So there's a couple of things that are interesting here too because I can see how production and life sort of are at odds because...

Kevin decides, and this is where I'm jumping to season two, I believe, that he's ready to have kids. - Yeah. - Yes. - Right? And that like Sophie wasn't the person who was sort of on the fence. So like, I guess they couldn't have you pregnant and being like, "I don't want any kids." - Let me hide this. - Yeah. - Any of your kids. - Well, they actually digitally took out the belly in a couple scenes. - Digitally? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Did they ever do that to you?

- I think they did. - I don't know what they can do with this world. - Witchcraft and wizardry. - Yes, they can just sort of like,

Take it away. Okay. So then the river happens. Why don't they ever take away my belly? Wait a minute. That was part of the story. The river happens. The river runs through it. Congratulations. You guys are on season... We finished season six, which will come out this year. But it's like you get a job and then you get another job, what have you. And so I think a lot of our storyline probably...

out of necessity became very interesting because I think we were hoping to just have Alex. - Yes. I think things definitely had to shift and change. - You know what I'm saying? - For sure. No, I remember that being the case. - Yeah. And so now it became this thing of like who Kev is gonna wind up with or whatnot. And so- - Based on their shooting schedule. - How are we able to get you back

In the end, like, how did it work out? Was it a lot to go through or was it easy? I remember being really devastated because I had just started filming season two of Virgin River and it hadn't even dropped yet. Like we were filming season two. It hadn't been on. Oh, wow. And they called in. They're like, we want you to come back for two seasons, blah, blah, blah.

And then Netflix was like, no. And I was like, and then I was, I mean, I was devastated, but I kept trying to remind myself. I was like, this is an amazing problem to have. Realistically, you have to put this in perspective, but still I was, you know, sure. And, and so, and then COVID happened and just like logistically, it never would have, we were filming at the same time. It never happened, but I think what it did for the storyline was,

was really wonderful and profound. So it took his character on a completely different trajectory from, I think, where they were going to go with Kevin and Sophie. And by the time you get to them at the end, they're like two fully formed characters

and they can actually come together in a much more solid way. So I thought that was a really beautiful twist of fate. But they, yeah, so for the final season, they were like, we're going to try to work it out. We're going to try to work it out. But my production, I think, pushed and also your production pushed or something. And so it just happened that I was not working at all.

and was able to come and do all the episodes. - Lucky for us. - That would have sucked so bad. - I know. - Because like we'd have all these sort of polls about who should Kevin wind up with, who would it be? - Madison. - Yeah, there's Madison. And then who did our director play? The director friend, she was on,

- The soldier. - Jen Morrison. - Oh, Jen Morrison. - Jennifer, yeah. - Jen, Jen, Jen. - Jen, Jen, Jen. - So then there was a moment where all three of you guys-- - Cassidy. - Yeah, there was-- - Cassidy. - Yeah, yeah. - And it was such a good Roshamon and the audience was just like, "Who is it gonna be?" And everybody was rooting for different people, but I think most people were team Sophie. - Correct. - The way that you first introduced at that birthday party, when we find out with the whole-- - With the little kids. - Princess Bride thing. - When they're young. - That this has been his person since.

Oh my God, it was so cute. So sweet. So sweet, so romantic. Yeah. It's really good. So romantic. The Valentine's Day card? Yes. Yeah. I remember when I read that episode, I legitimately cried. Yeah. It got me too.

- I'm also gonna say this because we won't have you when we talk about episode 117, but you're such a seminal part of this because in 117, we find out that you guys are together, but you have pressed pause on the intimacy button 'cause they have not had sex. - Yeah. - Right? And the play finally opens and she comes to the play. She brings a crutch. She surprises him. It's all very sweet. And he winds up, Kevin Pearson says, look,

I came here not for this play, not for this, but to be close to people who I love, to be close to my family. And I came here for you, Sophie. And you're like, if there's a way to get you out of these draws, the next thing we know, boots are being knocked. And I was like, note to self, just tell them you came for her. Yeah, I know, I know. She was like, can we go now? Can we get home? Let's get out of here.

The chemistry between you and Justin, just from the jump too, was so... It was immediate. It was understood. It was familiar. Like, how did you guys...

Find that. Yeah, we got so lucky. I don't know. It just sort of organically happened. We didn't do a chemistry read. Wow. Like I said, I just put myself on tape. I think you have chemistry with probably most people. That's true. That's true. I mean, she's just. I think that's just you. That's an Alex quality. You're just a chemist. So I think Kevin is also trying to like find footing. And I feel like Alex slash Sophie is so grounded. So grounded.

You know what I mean? That those two energies sort of just complement each other really, really well. Like, if you sit and talk to AB about like her life story, because I don't want to go into it, but like she'll tell you stuff and you'll be like,

How are you? You went to school till you, like she has like a, I don't know how much you talk about it on your podcast and I'm not trying to blow up your spot. Oh, I do. No, no, no. I'm pretty open about most stuff. Which is why you know so much, Sterling, because you were like, so what's this? And I'm like, well, I basically don't have an education. Brown asked a question. She dropped out of school in the eighth grade. Wow.

And then like, I mean, yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. But like no one would ever guess these because you're so put together. Yeah. Besides getting caught in chicken. Yeah. The chicken coop aside. Yeah.

That could happen to anyone. The chicken coop is the real me. I'm just a woman stuck in a chicken coop yelling at a man on a golf course. When I'm following her on Instagram, it's a lot like talking to you too, Sully, because you guys are both

really naked people with clothes on. And sort of like when you're going through something, not afraid to share that you're going through something. I remember I like DM'd you one time and I was like, whatever it is, you're gonna make it through to the other side or what have you. Because it was just a real moment that I was like, oh, I should say something to this because

It's easy to meet people where they are when they share themselves in such a full and beautiful way. And that's who you are to me, AB. You're a full, beautiful human being. I adore you to the ends of the earth. - Oh my gosh.

Thank you. But that's who you are. So that's why you're open to receiving other people's truth, right? Thank you. Thank you very much. Sterling brought it up. Will you tell us about your podcast and where everyone can go listen to it? Yeah, it's called I Like You Very Much. We like you very much.

I like you very much, which is a saying that a dear friend of mine would always say. And I don't know if you guys ever saw in Silver Lake, there was a billboard that he put up that just said, I like you very much on it. Nothing else. No. Really? He just paid for this billboard for no reason. It's beautiful. I wish I'd seen it. It's a beautiful message. That's awesome.

It is. So we, you know, my friend Zibi and I, Zibi Allen, who works on the show, she plays my co-star, Martin Henderson's sister. And we just became instantaneous friends. Like, it just clicked for us. And we just get into these discussions and we thought...

We have such a lovely time talking together and we feel so inspired by each other. We wanted to invite other people into the conversation and try out a podcast. I was like, well, why not do something with this? Sure.

So, yeah, that's what we've been doing. Is there a format or do you guys just like have different episodes about different topics? Yeah, it's kind of, I mean, so yours is a little more structured in that you're talking to characters about their character and you're talking about specific episodes. We actually did...

um interview most of the cast of our show plus some directors and writers but um it's not about the show it's really just sort of like about who these people are how they got into the industry like why they do what they do where like if you have insecurities or it just sort of runs the gamut all over the place and that's what i really love about it is you get to see people

all of themselves and discuss the whys and wherefores of their humanness. And we always try to tell somebody what we like about them as like a sort of starter or like midway through conversation if we sort of get ahead of ourselves. But it's been just such a lovely journey. And where is it available? When is it available? Yeah.

So we decided to put it up on Supercast. So it's a paid subscription platform. It's 25 episodes for $25. Great. A steal. And I think we do 10% goes to Save the Children. Great. Amazing. It's been lovely. The reaction from people that have been subscribing has been really positive. So that's really, really nice. That's awesome. Great.

Congrats. A.B., thank you for taking time to be with us today. Yeah. And I hope that maybe you'll come back when there's maybe more Sophie-specific episodes in the future. I mean, we are just coming to the end of the first season, but there's so much more Sophie to dig into that it would be fun to be able to really pick your brain down the road. There's some Sophie. I miss Sophie. I really enjoyed playing her. She was...

She was great. It's so interesting playing a person that's so similar to yourself, but yet not. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I think we all had a very similar experience on this show. But yeah, I mean, look, I'm hoping to come to Los Angeles for season two of I Like You Very Much. And hopefully I can get any or all of you. Oh, absolutely. We'll make it happen. We'll make it happen. Thank you, AB. Love you. Oh, thank you so much. So good to see you. Sending you all the love. Congratulations on your baby, Mandy. Thank you so much.

All right, we are back with another segment of the Emotional Support Hotline presented by Talkspace. Check your insurance coverage. Visit Talkspace.com slash TWU and you can start speaking to a therapist today. I love that. But first, but first everyone, we love hearing your messages and we love calling you back even more. So Mandy Moore, roll the tapes, please. Yes, sir.

All right, here we go. Hi guys. Oh my God. Um, I just want to say that this show has been amazing. Sorry. I'm just like freaking out. Okay. This show has been very amazing. It helped me with a lot. Um,

Honestly, like family-wise, relationship-wise, friendship-wise, just a lot. And I really appreciate you guys. So my name is Zamari, and my number is 777- Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. So much love you. Zamari.

Her excitement is so palpable. Completely and totally. This sister needs, I need to pinch some cheeks or something. We got to call her back. We got to call her back. Sterling loves to pinch a cheek. I do. I like juicy cheeks. I love the dog's excitement too. Yeah. All right, let's call her back. We're going to call her back using our Mint Mobile account who's given us unlimited minutes for calling all of these folks. Here we go. Come through, Mint Mobile. 773. Let's do it. Chicago? Is it? That's Chicago.

That's the Chi. You know. All right. Hello. Zamari, this is Sterling Brown. How you doing? Hi, I'm good. And you? I'm all right. Guess who else is here? Mandy Moore. And Chris Sullivan. How are you?

I'm good, and you guys? All right. We're doing wonderful. We just listened to your voicemail, and we wanted to say thank you for sharing. And we're so happy that the show moved you and helped you in so many different ways. And we just want to holler at you, girl, and see how you're doing right now. You good? What's popping?

Yes, I'm good. I'm so excited to hear from you guys. Oh my gosh, we're so excited to talk to you. Thank you for leaving us the sweetest voicemail. You were so excited. Your dog was so excited. It was a nice voicemail from your dog too. Yeah, everybody participated. I love it. Because you were using, we're using the tone of voice that indicated to the dog that somebody might actually be here. Yeah.

That's what happens when I use that voice. My dog's like, is someone actually here? You seem excited. Yes, indeed. So talk to us a little bit about your journey with the show. And you said it helped you through so many different things. Can you give us some examples of ways in which you connected with the show and sort of helped you through life?

Yes. So definitely your character, actually, Sterling Randall. Yeah. Like when he had his anxiety, I definitely, definitely experienced that in my lifetime. So it was hard. It was hard to watch that because I know I've like dealt with trying to be perfect all the time. And like just overcoming that, like had helped me from not being so hard on myself. Yeah. Sorry, my dog is barking. What's this dog's name? I have to know. Yeah.

Bailey. That's a good name. My ring doorbell just went off and she was like, barking. So Randall definitely helped me. And then also Rebecca's character, when she had Alzheimer's, my grandmother had dementia. So it was like watching my grandmother again, like through the show. And just...

Watching how you guys communicated with one another about like the plan, you know for Rebecca my family You have siblings. No, I don't have any siblings. I'm the only child. Okay has a lot of siblings so it kind of reminded me of that so I

Understood. Understood. How is your anxiety right now? How are you living with it at present? My voice is shaking right now. I'm very anxious. I got it.

But I'm fine. Like in life, I'm doing, I'm a nursing student right now. Okay. Yeah, so it's been going great. My quiz grades and test grades are great because I'm not anxious anymore. Yes. So it's been going great. That's good. Love to hear that. Congratulations. Yeah, congrats. That's really, what an exciting chapter in your life. I just wanted to say, because I am,

I personally wouldn't say I have anxiety, but I've had moments of desiring to be perfect. Yes. And I think once you reach that realization. But then he accomplished it and now he doesn't have to worry about that anymore. Stop, stop, stop, stop. Right. The realization that perfection is not something that can be attained.

That betterment is always something is worthy of pursuit as long as you know that there's no end goal to it. Then there's acceptance of the fact that your will fall short of the mark, right? And the same kind of grace that you tend to give to other people, because I know you're a nurse and you're a naturally caring person, we have to learn to make sure that we give that same grace to ourselves.

So I'm glad to hear that you are on that road of being graceful and kind to you. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. It takes a lot to not be so hard on yourself because, you know, all you see is the mistakes that you make and not the good things that you do. So learning that, you know, was good for me to, you know, see all the things that I'm helping others with. Yes, ma'am. Yeah. Yeah.

Whenever anybody asked me in interviews about which character I related to most, it was usually Randall because of my anxiety levels and the ways that I've had to try and deal with it over the years. And one of the things that shifted my relationship to anxiety was a super conscious gratitude practice.

Literally writing out a list every day of the things that I am grateful for. Because like you just said, I can focus on everything I do wrong. I could focus on everything I screw up. I can focus on all the things I don't have, all the things I want. And I forget about that list.

of things that I have to be grateful for. And it was so helpful for me to like write those things out and, and see them on paper. Yeah. Cause the list is long. Yeah. Yes. Very long. Well, take good care of yourself. I have, I have a lot of nurses in my life. A lot of like our close family friends and friends that, that Rachel grew up with my wife are nurses and it's,

It's an emotional profession. Yes, it is. It definitely is. To be able to extend yourself in that manner. So make sure you are also doing whatever it takes to take care of you. Yeah. Thank you, guys. You're welcome, Samari. Great advice. Samari, thank you for making our day with that beautiful message. And it was so lovely to talk to you. And again, congrats on all you have happening in your life right now. It's so exciting.

Thank you so much, guy. I really love you, guy. We love you too. Do me one more favor. Give Bailey a hug and a kiss, but not on the mouth because I'm black and I don't do that with dogs.

I'm with you, Sterling. I was laughing with my mom yesterday because I was watching your video of you dancing to Beyonce live. And I was like, Mom, I'm going to tell Sterling, look at that horse, look at that horse. She's like, don't do that. You did it, though, and I'm so happy that you did. Yeah.

I love it. You have a great rest of the day, Zamari. Thank you for being a fan. Thank you for your call. And we sending you nothing but love, sister. All the best. Thank you so much. Back to you guys. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Bye. That was amazing. Another one. Come on. We should do this all over again.

the time let's just do it all day emotional hotline the show just becomes voicemails and calling back can you tell me who's your favorite character on the show and is it the person who's asking you the question if it's not one of the three of us then we can move on then we'll move to the next caller alright thanks to men mobile thanks to talkspace.com

I love the emotional hotline. Yeah. This is slowly becoming my favorite segment of the show. It's highly supportive. It is indeed. All right. Later. That Was Us is filmed at The Crow and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions and Sarah Warehunt. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. That was us.