The Road to The Big Three | "The Big Day" (S1E12)
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On today's episode of That Was Us, we will be discussing Season 1, Episode 12, The Big Day. Rebecca forgets Jack's birthday. The birth of the big three fast approaches. Dr. K struggles with the loss of his wife. And Firefighter Joe prays for a miracle. Are you looking to take control of your skincare routine and discover a product that redefines anti-aging technology?

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Visit Lima.life, L for live, Y for younger, M for masterful, A for approved, and learn more about the Lima Laser. That's L-Y-M-A dot life. Here we are, guys, back with That Was Us. I'm just going to jump in very quickly and say I hope you are enjoying our show. And if you are, please rate us.

Review, subscribe, tell all your friends and family that we are doing this podcast. Rewatch the show with us. Leave us an emotional support.

Hotline voicemail, send us a video, an email, thatwasuspod at gmail.com. If you want to keep hearing these episodes, you can also support our sponsors. And we have some dynamite sponsors, so I think it's pretty easy to support them. Easy peasy, lemon squeezy, on to the show. Episode 12. Season 1. Who wants to start this off? Let's talk, I mean, many more.

I love and adore you. Here's what I will say. What? As we jump into this. So this was yet another one of Dan Fogelman's genius ideas of shaking up the format of the show, right? Yes. We're already jumping around in time. We don't know what time period we're going to find the Pearsons in on any given episode. And this episode kind of was different in the sense that

We are meeting-- We quickly come to realize we are meeting Jack and Rebecca on Jack's birthday, which is when the triplets were born. And we are following them on what happened throughout the course of the day before the pilot. We join up with the pilot at a certain point.

But we are also following the story of Dr. K on the day the triplets were born. Yes. And Firefighter Joe. That's right. Who found Randall at his fire station. And another different thing about this episode is that for the first time, I'm not sure what happened. Don't ask me what happened. For the first time in this podcast, this is not a rewatch episode.

podcast for me. This was the first time I've seen this episode. Oh, you hadn't seen it before? I... What? You skipped 12? Don't know how it happened. Get out of here! I did not intentionally skip 12. No way! But somewhere along the line, I'm watching this episode and I'm going, this is, for me, this is a new episode of This Is Us. So much new information.

And I was like, how did I miss this episode? So I don't know what happened back in those days. Oh, this is good. It was very exciting. I can't wait to hear. Your insight is very valued. Because I'll have one hot take. What's your hot take? It's a hot take. Do it. I don't care. No, no. I enjoyed the episode. This is not a hot take. Nope. I did not enjoy the Fireman Joe storyline.

- That's not a hot take. - Why? - Why? - Okay, why? - That's the question? - Because... - Yeah, okay. I was trying to figure this out for myself too. Watching it as a fan, it was sort of this moment that I had. And I remember watching things like this on social being like, "Where are Randall and Kate and Kevin?" - Yeah, this is the first episode, right? - This is the first one that we're not in. - Where no one else is in it. - None of the adult kids are in it. - It's all in the past. - All in the past, right? Right now? And I guess I was like,

Fireman Joe's having a difficult time with his marriage. I've been there. I can relate to that. But I think what it was, was like, I don't know you. And I don't know what you have to do with the Pearsons. That was really like the feeling that I had at the beginning of the thing. That's interesting. So I'm curious. Since I was watching it for the first time. Yes. And I had just recently rewatched. The pilot. The pilot. I was like.

Oh, I was for a second. I was like, who's, who is this? Oh, firefighter, firefighter, firefighter. Oh, he's the guy from, and I really liked. You did. I did. This is good. I did because it all. Sorry. What I was saying to my husband as we were watching and I was like, wow, casting is pretty genius. Yes.

Because you are casting a pilot. You're casting a one-line, two-line role in a pilot, not thinking eventually this person will be a third of an entire episode of a television drama. That's right.

And he did a great job, I thought. I agree that as seasons progress and we understand that the format is so wild on our show that you can be introduced to people and then you will eventually live with them and understand their role in the Pearson's life. And this doesn't really factor back in ever again. I do appreciate...

what he brought to the table. - Sure. - I appreciate that you're sort of like, "Is he gonna, does, are they gonna adopt Randall?" Or that, you know. - Right, right, right. - Because, and it does open up a door to casting, to the writers, everyone has to be on their toes.

You cannot be casting anybody for one line in "This Is Us." - Yeah, without the realization of like, this could be so much more down the road. - Right, because what you do kind of realize is like, when you think back to the pilot is, well, when he saw Jack at the window, he was kind of cavalier about smoking and dropping this baby off. - Right, yeah. - And then you realize, oh, there's a whole backstory. - There's a whole backstory. - That maybe wasn't quite fully developed when they shot the pilot. - Sure. - Right? - You guys liked it better than me. - I mean, I liked him.

I thought he was great. I thought she was great too. His wife was really good. Yeah. You guys liked it better than me.

And I'm okay with that. No, no, but I appreciate your hot take because I agree this is not a story that like really factors into the larger macro picture of this family in any meaningful way. And hopefully this starts a new segment on our show called, yeah, hot takes. Like, I don't know what the music is. No! That's a hot take! There's definitely some sort of guitar riff. We can play that underneath it? Okay, I appreciate it. But I'll tell you what was awesome. It was Mandy Moore. Yes.

- Stop. - Manny Moore, Milo Ventimiglia, and just sort of seeing, and you can comment on this now. I'm curious because you've never been pregnant before when we shot this show. And you see all the good times of pregnant and playing the Stevie Wonder music and everything's good until it's not.

In your experience, is that how it goes down? - Yeah. Yeah. By the time I was like, I am not there yet physically in this pregnancy, but everyone eventually gets there. - Sure. - And I cannot imagine what it's like to be that pregnant with three.

My grievance was watching it, I was like, oh, she'd be in way more pain. Okay. Would be hospitalized. Correct. Like at this level of the pregnancy. There's probably like bed rest. Today, exactly. That woman is in the hospital. She's not allowed to be duct taping flip flops on and like walking to go get some cake mix. Like that is absurd. Okay, so how did you feel watching? Hey. Hot take! Hot take!

This episode's going to be full of hot takes. How did you feel watching Rebecca's treatment of Jack? Because I know we were talking before about how a lot of people are like, how dare you treat this man? And you don't understand what's a good man. But you're also, on the day that you realize that this is like your delivery day. Yeah. I liked it. Screw Jack Pearson. Hot take! Take that, Jack Pearson. You did this to me. Oh, man.

Three babies with your super sperm. Has Mandy Moore ever been sort of like frustrated with Taylor? Oh, yeah. Yeah? Yeah. We were watching this and I was like, hmm. Yeah. You recognize that? Uh-huh. This happened before it happened in real life. Yeah. And Taylor was like, yeah, yesterday was my birthday. Yeah.

- I mean, it's funny. I love seeing, I had forgotten this episode. I love seeing those colors for Rebecca. It's the reality of like what it means to truly be a pregnant person. It's like, you love being pregnant. You hate being pregnant. This is what I wrote down. Like the nesting is so real. Like that I really glommed on to. Like, this is what a man will never fully understand. Your partner is like, the frustration of the house being,

not ready for these babies. Like it is a fundamental chemical thing that happens inside of you that you want calm and comfort and not the chaos. And there's just, there is no winning. And he was such a great sport about it. Like he really was perfect.

and submitted and understood like, this is where we are, this is the juncture, she's about to have these babies, like I'm just gonna shut up and put up with it and do whatever I have to do. And even though she's forgotten my birthday. - Completely. - And I love the realization of like just the sort of the switch when Rebecca does realize like. - Sure, yeah.

I am an absolute monster. And I have forgotten like this man's birthday and he is perfect. And the whole sort of like soliloquy she gives the convenience store worker when she's trying, she's like, you don't understand like what I have put this man through for the last nine months. And it's his birthday today. And I do this thing for him and I'm just unprepared. And she's at her wits end. You heard it here. Mandy Moore. Yeah.

thinks that Rebecca Pearson is a monster. - Yes, she's monster. - What were you gonna say, Sterling? - Breaking news, breaking news. - You talk oftentimes, not oftentimes, but you'll say like, I'm not funny or whatnot. I thought you were really funny in this episode. - Oh, thanks. - I also really enjoyed, hey, thanks again for the bathroom sex at Froggy's, Jack. I thought the delivery was delightful. - Kick the screen door open. Hey! - Hey! - Thanks again!

I mean, it was just like twisting the knife. Yeah. Yeah. And then it took me a minute to realize it was like, oh, it's his birthday. And so you catch up with Jack. He's out with Miguel at the golf course. Is that like when we go? Yeah. Miguel says, come on, we'll go. Yeah. We'll take you golfing. We'll hang out. We'll be cool and everything. And then Jack's talking to his buddies in the pro shop. And they're like, oh, man, it's four or five hours. Yeah. They can't get to us and everything. And I always love to listen. I love to watch movies.

Milo Ventimiglia as Jack Pearson listened to like lesser men. I love it. - Yes. - I love to see him just take a minute and say, "You guys are trash." - Yeah. - And I aspire to be better than all of you because I wanna be with you. - I like being with my wife. - I wanna be with my kids. - I wanna be with my kids. - Even though all the things you say are true, there's nowhere else I'd rather be than right there. - Yeah. - You know? And then what the guy says is like, "This guy's gonna make the rest of us look bad."

and he did yeah and he pretty much did that it is such an interesting like uh there there seem to be these evolutions of uh of manhood at least in the 80s where it's like all right your first set of golf clubs your first polo shirt yeah you're right and you can kind of see miguel making these absolutely making these leaps right where it's like i guess i play golf now

And I've had family members and friends who are like, I remember you running laps around the block drunk and high when we were in Chicago. We couldn't find you because you decided to go jogging.

2.30 in the morning. And now you're golfing? And now you're golfing. Why? Because that's what society tells you. Okay. And being the iconic class that he is, Pearson's like, I'm just going to be true to who I am. You know what I'm saying? And I appreciate that. Then you see them come together. You see everything that goes into the birthday dance. You see her put her lingerie on top of it because it doesn't fit. It was, yes, where we kind of melded pilot footage. Yeah.

which was sort of tricky because, you know, my hair was different. You talk a lot about like how you look different for the pilot versus like showing up for episode two. Same, like I had cut bangs and not that that was a really big deal, but...

- That's kind of a hot take. - A hot take. - These days. - For a couple of months later to then have to match the pilot again, these are things that like you don't often think about or worry about, but we truly like frame for frame had to shoot things a certain way, match things a certain way. - Milo had gained a little weight, so it was like, it's hard to. - But it's all in the booty, so it was fine.

That might have been a fake beard. We went back and forth so many times so often with Milo because it was the mustache. We should play that game with his character, actually, and anybody listening. Spot the fake beard. Spot the fake beard. Because it's really hard to do. It is. Because our makeup department is that good. Shout out to Zoe Hay. Zoe Hay is exceptional. He was mostly mustachioed in real life through the show.

- Throughout the show, right? - He was. - He kept the mustache so you could either add whatever you needed to add to it. - Beard or goatee. - And let me tell you, as someone who had to kiss him a lot, I had so much gross, loose hair. - Yeah, just in your mouth. - In my mouth. - Listen to me. - Slow down and tell us all about it. Let's hear it. - Detail by detail. No, it's because part of like the beard, the process to put the beard on. - You talk about it and I'll make this sound.

- Audio people love that. - There are like loose hairs sort of glued onto the foundation of a goatee. - I would get it every once in a while. - Right? And it's a...

- It's not a fun, it's not a hot thing to kiss. - It's not because also the way that Jack and Rebecca, they open their mouths. - Yeah, like there's passion. - Pretty wide. - Yeah. - So it's easy to get hairs. - Yeah, in the mouth. - Get hairs in there. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - More "That Was Us" after this short break.

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This was an episode also directed by Ken Olin. I believe at this point, Ken had only done one other episode. Is that right? Yeah, this is like for series, you know, for a BTS look, I feel like Ken Olin is a

is a director/producer on our show. And so oftentimes that means, you know, he's kind of overseeing things from a macro point of view on the show. And it often means that they like come in and direct many, many episodes. And over the course of the series, Ken did. He directed, what, like 50 or something crazy. - Yeah, more than anybody else. - More than anyone else. He knew the show and the characters and stuff.

But at this point, you know, I felt a very instant deep connection with Ken. You did. I remember this. From the minute that, like, he was brought on board, I remember, like, going to his office in, like, the early days and talking about the show. And I think because of his...

You know, experience on 30-something and everything that he sort of brought to the table being a part of like, you know, a very celebrated family, you know, drama in that sense. Like he had a very specific perspective. And I loved, I loved him as a director. I loved...

how thoughtful he was about these characters and the direction that he would give, even though, bless him, cannot complete a full sentence to save his life. Oh, can't complete a effing sentence. Effing sentence to save his life. But I just remember this episode in particular being so special, more so than even episode two, which he directed, just feeling like, oh, we're safe. We're in really good hands. And this is such a...

a specific episode because it's really centering these three stories in such a foundational way. Especially that scene where I'm talking to the babies. - That scene is outstanding. I put smiley faces next to ones that really hit. I was like, "Mandy Moore acting by herself, but killing the whole thing." - Wearing that weird fake belly, so bizarre.

And then Milo, who is a photographer himself, so he was always very invested in like... Anytime Jack had to like photograph something or like be the videographer, Milo like really relished that role. And like working with Yasu, our DP, and figuring all of that out was great because this footage that Jack shot like came back around again at the end of the episode in a really beautiful way that I absolutely like. Some of these scenes you watch and you're like, oh,

I have this very visceral memory of shooting the scene with the little big three, watching the footage of that particular footage. I remember setting it up and how complicated it was, but it was very... Us eating popcorn and just how much fun we were having. It was something that just stuck in my brain. -Doctor K? -Doctor K?

This storyline killed me. Real quick, just because this is interesting. I'm saying this for my brother, Armin Slaughter, whose wife of 31 years passed away recently. And just sort of watching him deal with the grief of losing his partner, his life partner, and how...

and people sort of wanna say like, "Hey, let's do this, let's do that." And that grief is something that you have to allow space for, for yourself and hopefully other people, your community give you that space as well. And what we see is a man who's in the midst of, while it's been 14 months, but his partner of 53 years has been absent from his life and he's trying to figure out how do I move forward without her?

And it's so interesting because we see from the pilot, this man who kind of seems to have all the answers and all this wisdom to share with other people. And it's sort of a really interesting thing to know that you can hold both of those things, that you can have something of benefit to share with people and also be really struggling with what it is that you're telling yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To not know how to take your own... Yeah. Advice. Advice.

I heard someone say, you cannot have wisdom, you can only be wise.

Which is an interesting way of thinking about how you have processed the things in your life and how you communicate those things to other people. Yeah. And what I have learned may have no context for you or you. It may just be for me. Right. And maybe it applies to somebody else. And I think what we've learned about our show is that it applies to quite a few people. Yeah. But I guess the kind of realization that...

When I-- I'm starting to understand why people pegged this show as the sad show or as the crying show. But what it really is, is a show about grief. And all of the different ways that it manifests itself, all of the different times in our life when we're faced with it, and all of the different ways to process it and to, um...

to work through it. And I guess when I realized, especially with the Dr. K storyline in this episode, was that it didn't-- His grief to me didn't feel sad. And I don't know-- It was like a comfort to him or something, 'cause it still allowed him a piece of his wife. Yeah, and it didn't-- There was intention.

to it with the rituals and her things and the morning breakfast and the conversation. - Yeah, talking to her. - And there's joy in that intentionality. - Sure. - Even if it is around grief or around grieving. - Right. - Especially seeing the episode for my first time. - That's right, you were seeing it for your first time? I mean, but because he was still

acknowledging the presence of his partner in his life, even though her physical being wasn't there. She's still there. You know what I mean? And I think what happens by the end, which I liked because when he was in the grocery store and that old fine aunt was talking to him. Excuse me. That lady was beautiful. Old fine aunt was talking to him. And I was like, hey man, fine aunt asking you to dinner. She will cook you food.

and make you nourishment and keep you healthy, you better accept that. And so I do like the idea that like you can still acknowledge the presence of your partner in your life. And at the end of the episode, he took her up on that dinner. It made me happy. Yeah. Yeah.

I think we've talked about this before. It's being able to hold both things. Yes. To say that my grief is real and it is painful. Yeah. And to not allow the grief to outweigh

outshine the joy of being alive, of still being a doctor, still being a father, still being whatever the thing is and being able to hold both. - And seeing what Jack and Rebecca went through helped unlock in him, right? I mean, that was the point. - When in need, sow a seed. You know what I'm saying? Like when you're going through something, if you are able to give something to someone else, like it actually helps you move through whatever it is that you're going through.

- Right, yeah. - And he acknowledges that. Like, 'cause he talks to her and is like, "I helped a couple today who lost their child." You know, it's like, I didn't realize just how much Dr. K was peppered into this first season. - Neither did I. - It really took me by surprise. - It did. - Just the little moments that we've seen of him so far in these episodes. And it's a beautiful surprise. I mean, I loved any time I saw

Gerald in the script and Gerald on the call sheet, but it's-- I can't wait to see how the future seasons unfold because so many of the iconic moments that live in my head, I've already seen them. Sure.

in the first 12 episodes of season one. And I'm like, what am I missing? And I've got like five more seasons of stories. - Buckle up, Sally. - Yeah, six more episodes in this season, yeah. - And some of the biggest moments yet still. - Yes, turns out I haven't seen 30 episodes. I'm like, six seasons. - It may be one of those things where Sal just said like, I'm not watching episodes, I'm not in. And then I'll just be delightfully surprised. - If it happens again and I'm not in the episode, you're back.

Oh, I see what happened. - We see the pattern here. - I see the pattern. I see the pattern. Gerald is now, I'm shooting a different show for Hulu right now. He plays a character that is completely different.

And it's a testimony to how beautiful an actor is because he's kind of evil in this one. And he's kind of heart and soul of season one of "This Is Us." - Yeah, he's kind of the heart and soul of the show. Very much akin to William in a way. I think that's why he came back on the train in season six.

There is, he's such an indelible part of the Pearson family. Yeah, for sure, for sure. And we don't know in our life where we're going to get those

those parental figures or father figures, mother figures. And Jack certainly needed a little Dr. K. And yeah, it's just interesting to see how he kind of plugs into Jack's psyche. And literally forms the motto of the entire Pearson. The mantra of our show. The mantra. It's true that Jack shares with us.

Well said. There is something really interesting that I did connect with as a married man of 18 years of getting to that place in your marriage and you're just trying to figure out

what is, and I'll put it in quotation marks, wrong. We are missing each other. - Yeah. - There are two people and he's-- - Living parallel lives. - Living parallel lives and not mean, not angry at each other, but just not connected to each other. - Sure. - And so desperate times call for desperate measures. And there was something really interesting about him being like, maybe this baby is the thing. - It's a sign. - That could save us.

And then there was something really refreshing about his wife, because here's the truth. If you are having problems before you are parents, those problems do not go away when you become... They're exacerbated. Come on now. Yes. Yeah. We all understand, right? Yeah. We do now. So his wife looking at him being like, bruh, you know, this ain't going to say...

This is not our baby and whatever we're going through has nothing to do with this. You're a sweet man and I appreciate you trying to do something to make us whole, but I don't think this is our path to wholeness. - Yeah. - Right? - Right. - That part of the storyline was pretty cool. - Well, and it was nice how it kind of got buttoned up in that way. And that was it. And we moved on and, you know, Randall went to his rightful place. - And as far as the handbook for living goes, it's interesting to see

admit that. Yes. To finally just say, this isn't working. That's not the solution. Right. But this isn't working. So what can we do different? And they do a hard reset. There you go. Yeah. And they, let's try, let's start over. Yeah. Let's shake hands and introduce ourselves to one another again like we did the night we met and move forward from there. Get into some fireman role play. You know. We leave them there. We don't know what happens behind closed doors. Get out the hose, slide down the pole, whatever the, you know. All right.

Is there anything else on 112? We're getting silly now. Let's button it up. More That Was Us after these words from our sponsors.

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Okay, we are back with our favorite segment of the show, our emotional support hotline presented by our friends at Talkspace. That's right. Check your insurance coverage and you can start speaking to a therapist today at Talkspace.com slash TWU. Yeah, talk to a real therapist. Don't call us for actual therapy. Please. It would be illegal, I think.

Today we have a voicemail from our fan Nicole. So let's give that a listen. Let's listen. Hi. I have tried to find a way to thank everyone, the creators and the writers and actors and everyone on this show for so long. My grandmother actually told me to start watching this show. My name is Nicole. I'm the mother of six.

And she had me watching it in 2018 right after I had had a stillborn son. And...

It was very hard the first season, but we got through it. And the emotional support that you felt on the show from everyone was... You felt it in your real life as well. And it helped get me through that. And then later when my grandmother died, my mother and I continued to watch it along with my kids every week. And I was the caretaker of my mother for 15 years.

And then we lost my mother right before the final season. And my mother had had a long battle with forgetting who she was and who we were. And I took care of her along with my kids through all of that. And then we lost her right before the final season. And it took a while to watch the final season. But when I did the train episode, really...

helped get through what was the worst time in my life and the writing and the way that it was done really was something that I hoped my mom had went through in her final times. So

I really just wanted to find a way to thank you guys for what you have done and this amazing show that you have created that has helped me through some of the worst times in my life, as well as a lot of my family, as we still go through a year and a half later with my mom passing my best friend. And really connecting with the show and with the actors and writers was...

something that really helped us and still does when we watch and rewatch. And it keeps me connected to my mother and to my grandmother and my son. So I really just wanted to thank you guys for that. It has been really amazing going on the journey with you guys. Again, my name is Nicole. Holy...

- Let's call Nicole. Let's call Nicole back. - Let's call Nicole. Good gracious. - Oh, glad we have those unlimited minutes from Mint Mobile to give our new friend a call back. - Yeah. - Let's do it. Holy. - Let's connect. - I can't speak. - I know. I'm a little floored myself. - You're gonna have to call back. Maybe she doesn't because it's a different phone. - Hey friends, it's Mandy. - Oh no, this is our- - And you have reached the back. - We called our own emotional support hub. - Great, cool.

I called the emotional support hotline, guys. I'm like, wait a second. I recognize that annoying voice. Hey! I'm like, ugh. Nothing annoying. Nothing annoying about that. Let's save all of that. Leave all of that. That was funny. Leave it in. That was on. Good job. I dialed the phone just for anyone wondering. Hello? Nicole? Hey. This is Chris, Mandy, and Sterling.

Hi, Nicole. Hi, how are you guys? How are you? Nicole, we're incredibly moved. We just listened to your voicemail. You told us about the loss that you experienced during the course of the show and before. Mandy Moore couldn't keep herself from crying, and I had to take a lot of deep breaths. You've gone through so much.

And I guess I'm happy that we were able to go through some of it with you. Thank you for sharing your story and thank you for going on the journey of our show with us. How, if I may, you said thank you to us, but I'm saying thank you to you. How would you say the show was able to be of service for you? Well, I mean,

Once I started watching after my grandmother pushed and pushed for quite a while, once we started watching it, we were in a very bad place. We had just lost my son. I had four other children to take care of. And I was taking care of my mom full time. So we had a lot going on at that time. And, yeah.

After watching the show, listening to all the things that Dr. K had said to Jack was very helpful. And just watching, you know, kind of how he made it OK for both Jack

Jack and Rebecca to grieve in different ways. Yeah, and and make that it's acceptable for Everyone and we were all grieving in very different ways and it was hard. You are a pillar of strength I am I'm so floored by your story. I'm so floored by your vulnerability and sharing it with us It means so much. I mean

We are so grateful for the show, for the opportunity to be able to tell the story, but to connect with people like yourself who truly lived this. I mean, you are Rebecca Pearson. I mean, just my hats off to you.

We're so grateful, like Sterling said, that the show was able to keep you company and help sort of be an instruction manual in a way of like, these are some options. These are ways that people in similar situations have handled these kinds of things. And I just, how are you doing now, if I may ask? How are you on this day? Today we are out.

We are out at my aunt's house actually having a celebration. My kids are all in the pool. It has been rough. My mother was our Rebecca. So we kind of, my mom got sick and

She had what is called an ABM. So she regularly would forget who she was and forget who we were. And so our lives kind of surrounded hers is the best way I can explain it. We lived life for her. What was the best way to make her comfortable and make her

the remaining years safe and as least stressful for her as possible. And we weren't sure how long that was going to be. It ended up being a little over 15 years that we kind of surrounded her and just, she was,

She was the magnet that held us all together and kept us all going. So once we lost her, I have an eight year old, she's eight now. She was seven at the time, Willow. And she actually kind of fell apart first and she, she really lost it. There was a whole year where she just, she was bad and we got her into grief counseling and through grief counseling and, you know, kind of coping mechanisms and,

We got her to where she needed to be. She's still on the edge because she is autistic, so it's hard for her to express anyway. But she's doing much better. She is now about to go to third grade. She's making better grades. She's connecting more with people. And all of my kids have learned a grieving process through this. And they're coping a little bit better.

I think it's interesting to, to, we think, we think that, that something like grief is, is just inherent and people just know how to do it. But it, it, it's interesting for you to say that she has learned a process, you know, that, that it is, it is an unfortunate process. That is a huge part of all of our lives at some point or another. Yeah.

Yes. Each of my kids has actually coped in a different way. They've learned to process in a different way. Willow actually sleeps with my mom's pillow still. And she says that's her Nana sleeping beside her. And I

I have other children that they have to have a necklace of my mom's and they wear that all the time. So each one of them is kind of doing it in a different way. And I have to learn to navigate it in a different way with each of them while still learning to navigate it for myself as well. Because losing your best friend is never an easy thing. Like she was the only person there for me. I grew up with just me and my mom. Yeah. So yeah.

it's been a huge process for us. It was just us for 15 years together, living together. I say I don't know how to live. I've never lived more than a year away from my mom between the time that I turned 18 and the time that I started taking care of her. So I don't know what life is without her. And I'm trying to learn that as well.

It sounds like you're doing it though. And you're like, you're doing a great job, mom. You've got a lot on your plate and you're doing it all and you're learning and you're evolving and...

I hope that you are, like, I hope you are finding ways to nurture and care for yourself as well because you are doing a heck of a lot. And we are, I'm just, yeah, I stand in awe. In awe.

We actually had a big success most recently, about six months ago. All of my children have a genetic condition and we weren't really sure what that meant. We knew that it probably came from my mom's family. But in learning about the genetic condition, we actually learned that, you know, all of my mom's siblings, she only has two remaining and all of them have died by the age of 57, which was the age my mom died. Wow.

and my grandmother lived a little bit longer than that. She was in her eighties, but, um, all of the rest of my, my mom's siblings have died very young. And that is a common theme in that family. And we found out that, uh, they all had some sort of heart related conditions. Um, and I,

I found out through my seven year old this year that she had some genetic testing done and the genetic condition that she actually has, as do all of my children. It actually presents in her heart. She's showing signs of, of a hole in her heart and some other things. So we actually learned through that, that my mom's entire family can get some kind of help and relief from

just by knowing that this runs in their family. So that was kind of a big thing for us and to be able to pass that on to the rest of my mom's family. We couldn't save her, but maybe we can help some of the rest of them. Yeah, future generations. Yes. Good gracious, Nicole, what a story. And Mandy, every time you came on the screen, every time you were singing, my mom was always talking about how beautiful you were

and how beautiful your voice was and what a good person she thought you were. So there is also that. That means a lot. Thank you. Your mom was right. Your mom was right. She's a good person. We were just talking about that. She loved Mandy. She also loved Sterling and Chris as well. She talked about Toby all the time. She wanted someone like Toby. She wanted someone to love her like Toby loved Kate. She loved Toby and Kate.

Don't we all? Oh, Nicole, we are so touched that this show has sort of

journeyed with you in all of these different seasons of your life. We hope it can continue to do that and can continue to provide relief and answers and a comfort blanket and help you feel connected to your mom and your grandma and your son and that you're able to share it with your kids. And we're just, we're so touched that you would take the time to tell us what the show has meant to you and for you to share your story with all of our listeners as well.

Thank you guys. It was absolutely amazing to be able to talk to you guys and to thank you guys and the writers for the amazing things that they did throughout this show and the amazing twists and turns that they created within this show.

We will share this with our writers. Definitely, if Fogelman doesn't watch this himself, I'm going to have to play it for him so he knows the impact that he's had on somebody's life. God bless you and thank you, Nicole. Thank you, guys. Take care. Thanks, Nicole. Have a great day. You too. Bye. Bye. Bye. Guys, I just want to say...

- I just wanna say, 'cause like sometimes I take it for granted and it sounds like a easy sort of like line to put out there. You can never underestimate the power of a story well told to affect people's lives, to keep them company, to just sort of like allow them to be seen so that they know they're not going through this thing by themselves. Like, holy moly. - It's so powerful. I mean, it just like,

It's hard not to, it's hard to wrap your head around that. You know what I mean? It's like, this is art, this is our job. And we are, you know, years removed from it in some ways. And also just like, it's so palpable in other ways. And for someone to take the time to let people know like, hey, this really was...

a comfort. This was so helpful to me at, you know, some of my darkest, hardest, most challenging moments in life is what a gift, you know?

That was the Talkspace emotional support hotline segment. If you would like to call in, that number is 412-501-3028. We would love to hear from you. For sure. And we look forward to connecting with more of our fans. Yeah. That Was Us is filmed at The Crow and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions and Sarah Wareheim. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith.