Nothing Bad Ever Happens on Christmas Eve | "Last Christmas" (S1E10)
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On today's episode of That Was Us, we are talking season one, episode 10, Last Christmas. Kate comes down with appendicitis. Jack and Rebecca are unexpectedly reunited with an old friend. And Kevin celebrates Hanukkah with Sloan's family. All right, guys, pop quiz for you. How healthy are your scalps? Yours looks good, Chris. It's all I got. It's the only hairdo I got.

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Oh boy. Oh boy. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Happy holidays. Back. How's everybody doing today? Doing good. Good. Glad to hear it. Nice to see you, everybody. Wonderful to see you, Amanda Moore. Always a pleasure, Christopher Sullivan. Sterling K. Brown. Thank you very much. We're talking about One Tint.

I know you guys have some thoughts. Like the first thought that I have is like the format of the show is we played around with the format a little bit. - Yeah. - And every once in a while, Dan likes to sort of just like, people think they know what the show is or whatnot. And he sort of like takes it a little way, which is really cool because this was a series of sort of one act plays. - Yeah. - Where normally we cut in between the storylines of all the characters. We let each one sort of play out on its own. - All about death and dying.

All about death and dying, which is the Christmas, isn't that the reason for the season? Yeah, the Christmas spirit. Well, yeah. It's the first episode that is a darker episode. Yeah. Not just topic-wise. I would say second. For me, the first one was the discord in the marriage of Jack and Rebecca, where things were sort of like- Oh, wow. Like episode two, way back then? I mean, it didn't feel dark. Three? Three. Three.

This had a heaviness hanging over this episode to me that like-- - But also stylistically. - Correct, the way it was shot, the way it was directed. - Literally darker. - Like, yeah. - It was darker, less music, like underneath things, like things sort of played out very bare bones. - Yeah, and for those who missed it in the credits, this episode was directed by Helen Hunt. - That's correct. - The one and only. - The Helen Hunt. - The. - Who again, playing on the theme of my naivete during season one, didn't know I was directing the episode until I walked on set.

- And see, and see. - Yeah. And, well, I was worried about a lot of things that season, a lot of suits and anyways, I was like, oh. - Keeping the job. - No, we're not mad about you. You don't stay. - Yeah, I was very excited to see her on set. But the first thing she did, she came up to me

Because, you know, directors, they're down to business. It's time to shoot. We got a day to make. And, and, uh, the first thing she did, the first thing she just walked in me with an iPad, just like this and goes, have you ever seen anyone have a heart attack?

And I was like, she pulled up some YouTube videos to show me how people fall when they have heart attacks. And I was like, okay, I think I got it. Which can we just stop? It's the very end of the episode. I understand it's the end of the episode. But did this guy not give the best fall of all time? I mean, we were on set and I remember in that moment, I was like, oh, he's going to hurt himself. I was genuinely concerned. But watching the episode back, I was like,

Slow clap. That is like an impressive...

No, but in an episode of death and dying, then at the end, someone maybe dies. We're not sure. Yes, this is true. So wait, let's hang right there. We'll go back to the beginning. Let's go back to the beginning. Let's go back to Jack and Rebecca celebrating Christmas. Yes. Trying. Trying to celebrate Christmas. Trying to celebrate doggone Christmas. You got Jack. I remember Rebecca saying like, do you think we overdid it? Did we get too much? Like, no, you know, like I work hard and the kids deserve this sort of thing.

And then Kate's like, "I don't know, something's not right. I don't feel good." And you said something about the cookies. - The cookies, she got into the Christmas cookies for Santa Claus. - Hey, Santa, those are for Santa. Like, you know, you get what you get. - Yeah. - The fellas are sort of, what are they doing? - They're fighting. - Just typical Kevin Randall. - About presents. They've missed the meaning of Christmas. - Yes, and you guys, do you guys know what the meaning of Christmas is? And young Kev's just like, "It's like some Jesus stuff or whatever." - Some Jesus stuff. - We gotta go to church. - We're going to church. - Some Jesus stuff. - We're going to church.

But it turns out Jack comes over to his daughter, feels her head or whatever. She's warm or whatnot. He's like, babe, I think something's really going on. She's got appendicitis, right? Take her to the hospital. Anybody ever had it? No. I have not. Yeah, I've had it. When did you get yours? When I was 19. Oh.

19? Yeah. Yeah, I had a temp job at the Double Tree Hotel in Sacramento, California. Copy that. Best chocolate chip cookies. Best chocolate chip cookies. Best chocolate chip cookies. Don't sleep on the Double Tree chocolate chip cookies. What do you think? They give you cookies at check-in. Okay. Do they still do that?

- Oh yeah, but if you work there, you got access to that. - Unlimited cookies. - I'm not kidding, there's a cookie kitchen. - I believe it. - If you guys want the behind the scenes, welcome to the Doubletree Hotel rewatch podcast. Let me give you the behind the scenes.

I don't want to brag, but Ani DiFranco did stay at our hotel that summer. Listen, you're 19. And so I'm 19 and I'm doing clerical work because if I wasn't an actor, filing would probably be my dream job. Copy that. Taking a stack of files that are out of order and putting them back in order. Bringing order. And putting them in bins. Yeah. Very good at it. Nice. I do enjoy it. I can believe it. And I'm 19 and I am slowly, pain is rising in my side and I'm slowly...

being bent over until I cannot, until I can't stand up straight.

- Are you serious? - Yeah. - Why is it always like you have to wait for near rupture to get the... Can we ever be proactive with it? Like they say it's just... - Some sort of like warning sign before that. - To be fair, I was at the doctor that afternoon. - You were? - Yeah. He was a large doctor, Santa Claus looking character with very large fingers. And I don't know if you know how they check to see if you have appendicitis. - I do not. I did not know this. I thought this was just prostate. - But it's, no, it's also, yeah, they, he,

He went in a few times. And Sterling and I were talking before the podcast that I deal when I'm in the hospital. Yeah. We'll talk about it next episode. But I'm very funny. Because I'm so nervous. And so I'm...

was in my bed yelling out to the nurses like hey i'm an eagle scout so if you give me a scalpel i'll take this thing out like i don't we don't need to do surgery i can figure this out um because just don't let that doctor come back in here with the giant hand with the giant fingers

Anyways, huge sidebar. So Kate has appendicitis. Okay, Kate. Kate has appendicitis. And I feel like why do these things always happen on a holiday, right? Yeah.

- Yeah. - Children, pets, like anything that is gonna go catastrophically wrong for some reason has to happen. - The Murphy's Law. - Yeah, like over a holiday break where things are crowded, crazy, it's just like the worst possible timing. - It's pretty terrible. - Yeah. - So Christmas Eve, they're in the hospital. - Christmas Eve, they're in the hospital. - She's getting her appendix out. - She's getting her appendix out. And you see sort of like, there's a couple of moments that pop out in my head.

is sort of Kev's care and love for his sister. - Yeah, their connection. - Their connection. - He's like literally walking, holding her hand while she's on the gurney. - He's just holding her hand and just like not letting her go, right? You see Randall talking to mom being like, "Oh yeah, this is bad."

And what I like about Rana and Lani as Rana is just his listening. Like nothing sort of gets by. - Yeah. - Right? He takes it all in. - He's an observer. - He's an observer. But the thing that we don't expect in this episode is that we have a Dr. K reunion. - Yeah. - Dr. K is in the hospital. He just got, he was in a car accident. - Yes. - Right? He's got internal bleeding. Things are not looking good for him.

and his family's unable to make it to join him because of weather conditions. I can't remember what the reason was. - I believe so. I believe it's weather conditions. - Something like that. And the Pearsons are like, "All right, well, we're gonna be your family today." - Yeah. - And it's such a beautiful like- - And Jack gives him pretty much the same speech he gave him when the babies were being born, which is like, "You're gonna be fine. No, I don't wanna hear it."

You're gonna be fine. - It's Jack's go-to. - Yeah. - He believes in emphasizing the sunny side of the house, which I'm not mad at at all whatsoever. - And I love the full circledness of,

Dr. K being there for their scariest, most vulnerable moments and for them to be able to provide comfort for him in this potential, like potentially what could be the end for him, felt really beautiful and synchronistic. - It's beautiful. Randall goes to get a snow globe.

He's like, I hear you're the man that's responsible for me being in this family, so I just wanted you to have a gift on Christmas or whatnot. And he goes, I was only pointing a family in the direction that they already wanted to go. It was just super, super sweet. Spent his own money. And beautiful. Yeah. Spent his own money. Because Randall's a saver. And reinstated the meaning of Christmas. There you go. There you go. So that was the first one that we saw, and then we come back to it towards the end. So this is, I think, my...

My smile comes from, number one, Ron, the director. Oh, genius. This guy slays this shit. He really does. He absolutely slays it. Anytime he's on the show, I was like, dude, you're a fucking beast. Yeah, yeah. He has directed theater before, or at least has been directed in theater before. By someone like that character. Because he says something to the effect of like, I thought this was going to be...

just like the worst, you know, the vanity project at the sitcom. And it turns out that you guys actually have a lot of heart. I think we're gonna be okay. And Kevin's like, "There's more? Oh, there's more!" And they hug each other and it's so sweet. And something positive is coming.

She told her family that she was dating the mani. - Yes. - Right? And he's like, "Well, actually I gotta go to my brother's house. This is what I do." She's like, "Dude, you owe me at least this much." Right? So he goes and celebrates Hanukkah with Sloane. And you see Kevin sort of be charmed

by Sloane in her telling of the Hanukkah story. - Yeah. - Right? By the way, Melania, she kind of slays it. - She does. - Do you like, Melania Feintra brings it in this episode. - Yes. - She is absolutely wonderful and adorable. - So winning, so charming. - I see why she sells so many phones.

- You can see why Kevin was charmed by her as well. - Was completely, and her family was hilarious. I actually felt like it was an opportunity for Dan, who is Jewish, in the midst of our Christmas story to be like, you know what? We put a little bit of something to my stuff in this story too. So it all goes together, right? In the sauce.

And he's like, "You know what? We should do this." Like, people think that I'm not a serious actor. They don't think you're a serious playwright. She's like, "Who doesn't think that?" Her mom's like, "You know, I don't." My sister's like, "I don't." Whatever. It's like, you know, forget what other people think. Let's go ahead and do this ourselves. Completely charming, completely beautiful. Love it, right? Then we go to Kate. Is there anything else from the cabin? - No, no, that was it. - No, it's just, it's interesting. It's interesting to watch because if we are, if this show deals in

Yeah. Right? If it deals in anxiety, if it deals in alcoholism. There's something about Kevin's character that is a bit of a love addict. Oh, for sure. Like he cannot, like an official cannot be alone, doesn't like to be alone. Yeah. Even in his description of why he's doing it, there's a compulsion to relate or to...

couple or to save or to whatever the thing is. But yeah, it's kind of the first time you see him like he's, it's weird to me because when I see this unfold, it's like he phrases it incorrectly and he doesn't understand what's going on. But it is actually what he should be doing. He should be trying to partner with somebody who he's not fully attracted to.

Sure. Because when he goes after somebody who's fully attracted, it's dysfunctional. Yeah. And it's... That's in 111. We get to that more specifically. Right, right, right. Sorry. See, I tell you, I watch him back to back and I'm like... Yeah, same, same, same. It's hard. It's hard. I'm with you. Anyways. I'm totally with you. It plays out. We will be revisiting. It plays out. Let's talk about Kate...

with her mom, goes to consult for the gastric bypass. And this is, you know, as I'm listening to all of the possible side effects that could come, I find myself being like, oh man, I didn't realize. You know, it's like every time you go in for surgery or whatnot and you have to sign away this thing that like, you know, if you die. There are potential complications. There's potential complications. And it was so interesting to see

Sidebar. I was talking to my wife about Mandy Moore and her portrayal of Rebecca Pearson. I said, Ryan, I'm just sitting here watching this show. I said, Mandy Moore is a killer. Like she's a killer. And she goes, yeah, she's a killer. And I would say this, I was like, why do you think

Do you think because she started off in music that people don't see her as a killer in this particular form in the same way? She's like, "No, no, no. She makes it look too easy." - Oh, guys, that's very kind. - And I was like, "Ryan, she's playing 60-something shit, but she does it so effortlessly that people think that like anyone can just do it." - People forget that there's a 30-year-old in there. - Do you know what I'm saying? - You guys, it's... - So I'm just saying too... - Do you wanna leave? Do you need to leave so that we can continue? - I'm gonna take a break.

Because we have things to talk about. To my on-screen mom who's eight years younger than me, you can kill her. Yeah. Thank you, guys. You're welcome. That's very kind. So as I'm sitting here watching it, and like, it's so like...

it perfectly encapsulates, I catch myself as a parent with my children. Like there's sometimes I just can't help but say something. And like, I'm not doing anything what I think is right or wrong. I just wanna like, there's more information to be had. Let me help get the information. 'Cause my kid tends to sit back a little bit, but I can be like, oh, I need to ask this question. And that's exactly, you're just getting all the information that you can get. - All the information. - Not clocking that she's like,

"Can I do this?" You know what I'm saying? - Yeah. - Sort of like annoyed, but like, I think it's just kids are annoyed by parents. Once, you guys probably are not old enough yet to be that. - I don't know if they're old enough. - I'm not quite there. - Are you asking if they're old enough to be annoying? - That, no, if they're- - Annoyed by you. - Annoyed by you. - Not yet. - Oh no, he's old enough yet to be annoyed by me. - Really? - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

- Especially if I, like, you know, the position shift, but if I'm, if I've swung into like the boundary position. - Yeah. - Oh, sure, sure. - For too long. - Okay. - Where last night at bedtime, he was just like, he took on a character. Like he like all of a sudden like took on a posture that he hasn't taken on before. And I don't know where it came from, but he was like, "Dad, just go, just go." He's three and a half. - Like done. He was done for the night. - He's like, "Just go."

Just go. Because I was like trying to like stick to the bedtime routine. Wow. And so I was like, you know what?

- Okay. - He knows what he wants. - Yeah, yeah, I'll see you later. - He's there. - Good night, buddy. I love you. - He's there. - Anyways. - Yeah, it happens more when they get even older, right? And so just sort of watching that dynamic between the two of you, and please feel free to comment on anything that you think of because what really hit me is when we got to that moment in the car, did I do this? Like, and you ask in such sincerity,

Like, I didn't know when not to talk about the food or how much to bring the food up or to not bring it up. Like, I was constantly trying to figure out what was right and what was wrong. - 'Cause we also got the Prozac information. - We got the Prozac information because we didn't know that she was dealing with depression or whatnot. - And mom didn't either. - They had no idea. And then like her response was about the most honest, "I don't know. Did I do this? I don't know."

And that's, I just, you just got to sit with that for a sec, man, because we're all now these parents and we're probably going to send them to therapy for something and just wondering what it is that they're going to be going there for. You know, because there's no getting it right. There's getting it the best that you can. Yeah. The best that you can. I like, and I think about it, I look at them, I'm like, all right.

Like, I know like, Rhy and I will argue from time to time. And like you said before, hopefully I also get a chance to witness the repair. Argument's gonna happen, the repair's gonna happen, right? I talk to my kids about food all the time. Rhy and I did on our podcast this whole thing about diet culture. And...

Especially in Hollywood, I think the emphasis is so much on thinness being equated with health that I would like to debunk here and now. Like different body types show up in different ways and can be healthy. Healthy, exactly. You know what I'm saying? Correct. And however that manifests and just wanting them to be healthy, right? And I think about like, Ryan and I will go, we've, our kids have never had

- General Mills cereal. - Sure. - Right. - I had nothing but General Mills cereal. - Sure, yeah. - I guess they're not gonna be responsible. - Reese's Peanut Butter Puffs? - You know what I'm saying? - Yeah. - For breakfast? - Used to kill 'em. I went-- - The Crunch. - Captain Crunch. - I went to the roof of my mouth. - Was bleeding. - Was real. - Yeah.

- Right? And so you do these things to try to introduce them to healthier options or whatnot. And there's still, it's gonna be something that comes up later on. You know what I'm saying? So like, it was a moment of real empathy from parent to parent being like, man, you did, I see you trying to do it the right way. And even in that, like you feel responsible for,

an outcome that you, I don't know. - And before becoming a parent, I remember thinking about this scene and rolling my eyes like, I love my mom, but I'm like, oh, this reminds me of my own mom who just like inserts herself into things and like,

And now being a parent, obviously, I have a completely different perspective. And I'm just like, of course she wants to be there. Of course she wants to hold her hand. Of course she's concerned. Like, that never goes away. So, yeah, I've had a real perspective shift since we filmed this episode. I can imagine. And maybe there's – maybe certainly you can tell us if there's a shift that has to happen. Because there has to be a shift at some point, right, that goes –

from keeping them alive to letting them live. You know what I mean? Like, like, wow. Like, and how, how do you do that? And how do you transition? Like, when is that transition? I was trying to explain to a friend of mine, like, there's a reason why I need my son to listen to me. Yes. All the time. Yeah. Not, not sometimes. And sometimes it's for dumb things that he,

It doesn't really have to do, but if I ask him to do them, I need him to listen because I don't have the time when it matters, when his safety is at stake to explain which is which. I just need you to listen to me. So the great profundity of because I said so becomes clearer than it ever has before.

Now, there essentially comes a time where I'm going to have to transition out of that. Yeah. And people are going to have to learn from... Their own mistakes. Yeah, mistakes and consequences of their mistakes, right? Sometimes you have to touch the phone. I don't know. And maybe that's the sign of successful parenting is to make that transition fully or to make it in a healthy way. More That Was Us after these words from our sponsors.

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I think my mom was pretty good at this, to be honest, because

I think the trap can be is always seeing them as that thing that first manifested in your life. - Right. - And not allowing them to mature into who they are now. - Sure. - So always just trying to relate to them where they are in that particular moment. I see with my oldest son, he sort of demands it. - Yeah. - Which I give him all the credit in the world for. Like, you can't be like, "Oh, you're my little boy." And everything's like, "No, dude, I'm about to be 13 at the end of the month. Like, you gotta, like, can I have my phone?"

Yes, you may. There's rules to the phone. If you violate those rules, they go away. Sure. So he'll violate the rule, the phone goes away. And he's like, ah, I had that coming because I messed up, right? At a certain point in time, I want to be able to earn my way back into your good graces. I was like, if and when you do that, then you will get this back, right? So he's actually pretty mature in that way and insisting on that you deal with me where I am right now. Right. I think that's what it is. You know how it is sometimes when you go home

And we all, to a certain extent, maybe you guys don't fall into like a role that you played when you lived in that house. - Sure. - Because it feels familiar and comfortable and that sort of thing. So like we kind of play a part in it too, to a certain extent. - Sure. - Yeah. - Because it's kind of nice to be at home and it's kind of nice to be Kelvy and like, "Oh Kel, what you doing?" And so like we play a part in it too, but it's also 'cause it feels,

familiar and comfortable. And so I guess you kind of got to take the kid's lead to a certain extent of like when they want to be sort of like when 16 year old Sterling wants to get into the shopping cart and be pushed around by his mom, which is fun. You know what I'm saying? And you're in the store like at nine o'clock at night and nobody else is there. She's pushing you around. He's happy as the lamb. And the times when you're like, mom, I need you to deal with me like where I am right now. And so I guess the difference, like the real question then becomes like,

You two have already had an interaction like this where you come to the door and you talk about you knowing about your biological father. And there's like this, it's really like a moment of growth for Rebecca, even at however old she is at that point. And this question is also an interest. Did I do this? Okay, well, why are you asking?

Are you asking for forgiveness? Are you asking for absolution? Are you, and I don't, I don't, I don't know. Like, are you asking so that you can take responsibility for those things? Like it's such an interesting, pivotal, it's a pivotal moment for adults and adult and a parent.

My takeaway from it when we were filming it at least was sort of like this is such a taboo conversation and not something that she fundamentally feels comfortable talking about with her mom. I'm sure with Kevin, maybe with Randall, like she's been a little bit more open about this part of her life and who she is and what she wants to change. But I feel like it's kept from mom a lot. So just the simple fact that she wanted me at that appointment –

allowed me the space to ask that question that I probably had never asked before. Because it is such a profound, earth-shattering question. It felt to me, Mandy, like...

If this is my fault, allow me to apologize. Yeah. Right. Right. Like if like I don't think Rebecca has any problems. Like if indeed I did something wrong, let me know and I can tell you I'm sorry. Yeah. I can take accountability because here we are now at this juncture where you are considering major surgery with all of those complications. Like it's.

terrifying as a parent to think about that, of your child's life in peril and that you played a part maybe at them arriving to this place, you know? Absolutely. Especially to watch your kids struggle in all the different ways that they do or will, addiction or breakups, divorce, whatever the thing is. Like you pointed out, I guess the most profound part of this conversation is her response, which is, I don't know.

Yeah. Which doesn't really leave you anywhere. No. It doesn't. So I'm still trying to figure that out. Yeah. Okay. Do we go to William and Jess? Yes. Every time I see him, I well up. Yeah. I'm just like, yeah. I'm just like, yeah.

It's like being visited. He's beautiful. It is like being visited. Yeah. He has this aura around him. But it's always there. It's not just there because we see it in hindsight. It's like he just is so special. He has this like... It's why people, I think, loved that character so much. Everything he brought to him. And I think I'm remembering the feeling of seeing... I think...

seeing him in real life felt like being visited by a wiser being. - Yeah. - A wise old owl? - A Pixar wise old owl. - Just by a spiritual entity. - Yeah. - Like, and to be reminded, every time I see him, I'm just reminded of that feeling. - So before this episode happens, I am reminded of a conversation that Fogelman had with me when I was on set. And he's like, "So I got this crazy idea.

And he goes, "I think your dad is going to wind up being bisexual. Do you think he'll have a problem with that?"

And I was like, "I don't know." I was like, "You should probably ask him." He's like, "He's an actor, so he's probably pretty cool with it." He's like, cause Dan, his cheeks get all red and he gets all giddy cause he's got an idea. He's like, "I think we're gonna make William bisexual." Like, "What do you think? He's gonna be okay?" I was like, "Should be. Go talk to him." - Yeah. - And he was like, "Yeah, man, what are you talking about? I ain't doing anything." So there they are in NA.

And he's telling the story about a monkey. Like that he encounters on the street, like at 3:30 in the morning. And what we, the crux of it, 'cause in a very sort of circular way is like, why am I up at 3:30 in the morning? Like what positive is supposed to be happening right now? And he's like, oh, and he's like, is this a monkey? Like, it's almost like I'm high. Is this a freaking monkey?

"Oh, I should not be high anymore." Like it was like a moment of clarity. And then he decided to turn his life around, get clarity. He reconnected with his son and sort of says that he gets to go home and spend Christmas with them and celebrate in that way. And he doesn't have many Christmases left. He's also aware that he's dying. He lets everybody know, but he's happy that he's at this place in his life, right? So then after he speaks, we hear from this dude, Jesse, from the first time, played by Dennis O'Hare.

And Jesse talks about how he had love in his life. And then all of a sudden it went away or the object of his love, the love did not go away. This was really well, well pinned, by the way. Like he kind of killed this shit, right? And all of a sudden he just disappeared and he was left wondering what had happened to him. And you see William in the foreground, just like, oh man. And Jesse telling his story.

And you realize, we as an audience, we're like, "Oh my goodness." - William's the object of his- - William's the object of his love. And so at the end of that section, the two of them come together and he said, "I didn't know how to tell you. I knew that I was dying. I didn't want to burden you with that.

And he goes, "Well, are you dying like this instant?" And he's like, "No." And he's like, "Are you dying tomorrow?" "Not that I can tell." He said, "Well, I love you and I would like to spend whatever little time that you have together. Is that okay with you?" So beautiful. There was something else about this sequence of events that I found I maybe didn't notice the first time through, but throughout this whole episode, a bunch of Jesus stuff. We're going to church.

Also in that story, he talks about a higher power. Yeah. And it's, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's like the first time in our show that God is discussed. Probably. In my mind, the first time that God is discussed is 105 with the painting. In my mind. Sure, sure. But yes. The universe, another entity. Almost in a, not in a spiritual, but a religious way. Right. And to have...

This character, William, be the one who talks about a higher power in his life. It's literally put into the character of an ex-junkie. Yeah. And then minutes later, at least a bisexual ex-junkie is kind of an incredible...

network television discussion. Yeah. Like, I was kind of like, this was on NBC. Bung, bung, bung. I think Dan, in his...

infinite wells of humanity knows how easily certain people can be dismissed. And he puts in the mouths of people who are oftentimes dismissed by society, profound truths and revelations and like wisdom, whether it's Kevin and sort of like being the handsome sort of like actor who's supposed to be vapid or what have you, or someone who's supposed to sort of occupy the fringes of society like William or whatnot and giving them a depth

and sort of richness that makes you say like, I should not dismiss anybody. - Anyone ever. - And if I see myself in this show and I relate to this man in this way, now I see myself in this man. - Bam. Okay, so now there's Randall and Beth. And I tell you like real quick sidebar, I always, most of my career,

I always have to play someone who's like the heavy, who's very much in charge and like, you know, rock solid. I'm always Oberon or Cino, or I'm like, in Shakespeare times, I'm like that dude. I never get to be like one of the lovers or anything because you have,

or whatever it is, right? So I say all that to say like, we sort of open our section with like a bit about a boat. Like it's Beth and Randall. And it made me laugh so much. And because I think Sue being the gorgeous human being that she is, who is so funny, doesn't always get a chance to flex that funny bone. She's so damn funny.

And the two of us get a chance to do this thing. And it was, ah, I just smile from ear to ear. Because it's also sort of a bit of a respite from the heaviness of what just happened in the NA. So she's like, you need to get the money back for this boat. Yeah.

And I'm like, okay. - It's funny, I'm like, Randall's a boat man. Like that was a revelation to me as well. - Sometimes a brother just needs a boat. - There's some curve balls, the South Carolina curve ball later. - There's another one that we didn't, that's in this episode, it's a small one. Our kids are staying with her sister. - Yeah. - We never meet.

Beth's sister. Ever, ever? You never meet Rebecca's sister either. They're just like mentioned and then forgotten about. Yeah. Yeah. I think Toby has a sister too. I'm serious. Toby does? Yeah, yeah. Toby definitely has a younger brother. I remember you making mention of him. Maybe that's what it was. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. To be continued. A sibling. So here's an interesting little tidbit. I don't know if we ever talked about this, but it was deeply profound.

So Jimmy Simpson plays in this episode. He plays the guy, Andy, who I bought the boat from. Incredible actor. Incredible actor. I met Jimmy Simpson in summer of 1999 at the Williamstown Theater Festival. Oh, wow. Him, Charlie Day, a bunch of other people, right? Good buddies. So a friend of mine, one of my best friends from undergrad, died the summer of 99, one year after I graduated from undergrad. Wow.

His name is Andrew. His name is the namesake for my firstborn child. He, in the obituary, either fell, jumped, or pushed from like several stories high on his office building where he worked, right? And so I'm reading this episode and I'm talking to this dude named Andy who was about to commit suicide. And I was like, it was one of those moments of like spirit. I was like, God, is this real?

What's happening? So friends of mine called me after the episode. - I had no idea Sterling. I had no idea. - Called me after the episode and they're like, did you put this? I was like, no. - Wow. - They were like, did you ask for the name? I was like, nope, but I didn't change it. So as this scene is happening or whatnot, like there's this sort of weird thing about like if I had been fresh as like now I am here,

to do this thing. - Jeez, man. - And so the summer that I met Jimmy Simpson is also the summer that my friend Andrew passed away. - Wow. - Did you ever share that with Jimmy? - No. - Wow. - No, I think this is the first time I've ever talked about it. - I had no idea. I just remember,

I mean, not to speak out of turn here, but I remember that there was a lot of moving parts with this particular episode. And there was something about the script, like being altered and changed last minute

in your section in particular, this whole scene with Jimmy and people having to relearn lines and all of that. So I just assumed that like, oh my gosh, so on top of the burden of like that shift happening, you had to bring all of your collective, like real life experience. Like, whoa, Sterling, heavy. - Heavy. The lighter part of what you're talking about is the scene got rewritten like a day and a half before.

And, you know, we try to be good students and get it all under things and whatnot. But, like, they hadn't gotten Jimmy attached to it yet. So Jimmy had some ideas about how it could change or whatnot. And they're like, cool. So then they changed the script. So Fogelman, he sees me. He's like, hey, let me talk to you for a second.

Because I was like, dude, I just have to memorize everything over again. Sidebar for SKB real quick. I memorized fairly quickly, but I also put in a lot of time to it or whatnot. This was the first time that I was anxious about memorizing lines and having enough time to do it. Because it's a whole act. It's a whole act. It was like seven, eight pages, whatever. So I don't.

I smoke a lot, but I have like a joint in my closet of my old house that I've had for like two years that I'll take and I'll put the joint back. I was like, I think I'm

So I took like a couple of puffs of joint and I go into my garage and I just hammer it out. I hammer it out and I got to where I needed to be. And then I go and I see the writers the next day. I was like, I had to memorize the lines and everything. Dan's like, come, let me talk to you. He's like, do you want me to change it back? Cause I'll change it back in a heartbeat. Like, I'm sorry if this happened to you and dah, dah, dah. I'm like, no, no, no. It was the first time I saw Dan sort of be like upset. I was like, it's okay.

I got it. We're going to make this thing work. And he's like, okay. I was like, all right. But shooting it was, it was sort of, I got to release something, you know, in a way. Like similar to as we get further on down the road, the William and Randall storyline and the parallels between my own life or what have you. Like, it's like God put this TV show in my life.

I'm not saying like it's all therapy and whatnot, but like there's things that were very close to the surface and they were easily accessed, right? Because when I'm watching it, like you said, I cry. Like when I saw myself be like, no, no, no, no, no,

I was like, I had like anxiety. Oh, for sure. So I looked away, like I got distracted by something. And then when I heard your reaction, I looked back at the TV and I saw you looking over the edge. And I turned to Rachel, I'm like, did he jump? I forgot how the scene ended. Yeah. I was like, your reaction to it. I was like, wait, no, he didn't. On our show, he didn't actually jump, did he? And then they show him walking away and I was like...

- Holy shit. - Dude. It was such a perfect moment because there's also my black wife walking in and me being like, "Hey, don't come no further." She's like, "You don't tell me what to do." I was like, "No, don't do that." - Yeah. You don't understand what you're walking into. - I was like, "Don't tell me I don't understand." - We'll be right back with more "That Was Us."

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Everybody has to go through something, but the story doesn't have to end here. Wherever you are right now, you get a chance to write a new ending, but you have to keep going. - Right. - Yeah. - Right. Which is the thesis of our show. - It's the thesis of our show, right? So that's the end of that section. We go home, we pick up our daughters from my wife's sister and- - Who we'll call Claudine. - Claudine. - Claudine. - Claudine. - Claudine's house.

And we're prepared for a quiet Christmas 'cause everybody can't make it. And then slowly but surely,

everybody trickles in. And it's such a warm feeling. - Beautiful montage, Christmas montage. - Oh my gosh. - With a Sufjan Stevens song to boot. - Song's great. - Yeah. - Song is great. And so the first time us seeing each other since the end of 109? - Yep. - Seeing 109. And like after that moment, like it sort of made sense.

I didn't say anything directly to you or whatnot, but I was like, oh, life's too short. Like, I got to let it go. Let me take your coat. Come on in. You know what I'm saying? And there's a lovely moment where we're naming the reindeer. I was like, I bet your grandma knows and whatnot. And we improv that. Like, that wasn't in the script, was it? It wasn't. But they just left it in there. And I was like, I'll send it to somebody.

- I love a montage. - I love a montage. Justin throwing popcorn into my mouth. And you come in, wait, before the montage, before the montage, you come in. - I'm part of the montage, yeah. - Part of the montage. - But yeah, Toby arrives, the big grand gesture of a surprise. - You guys have done, you guys have been working on this album for like eight days. - I'm gonna say two things. I said, 'cause I wrote in my notes, I said, "And Toby comes," and then later I wrote twice.

And so you make a grand gesture. It's like, they're like, my kids are like, I think Santa Claus is here. Sure does look like it. You got the hat on and everything. And you tell her how much you love her and you sit in the middle seat and you have a lot of time to sort of craft what you think and know. And so a beautiful sort of reunion transpires.

And listen, speaking on Randall's behalf, I don't know how I feel about y'all knocking boots in the crib. Yeah. But I understand. Again. You know. Again, it's distasteful at best. Romantic. You did it, but you do a great job of threading the needle of like post-coital exhaustion. And like, I don't know if that brother right. Like he...

Yeah, something's a mess. Something may not be 100%. I get that from my, that was me. That wasn't acting. That was just a choice. That's just how I, this is how it looks. How does it look for you? Wait a minute. You don't look like you're about to have a heart attack. I could go into it on another podcast. Maybe you're doing it wrong. I'm doing it on another podcast. I don't have good judgment. That's not quite the one. If you don't look like you're going to have a heart attack, Sterling, maybe try a little harder? I don't know.

- So wait, now this is an important tidbit. - Yeah. - Because as everything, all the merriment is transpiring, people are getting along. - Yeah. - Oh, let's do one real quick, 'cause I think this is how it happens sequentially.

he's checking out randall's checking out william and jesse kicking it with each other and his daughter comes up to him i was like i think grandpa may be like um my friend from school's got the two dads and like what are you talking about he's like grandpa's gay dad or at least he's bi yeah and she strolls off like like

Did I miss something? So it was really like, and that goes into the next episode. So we'll talk about that later. But then everybody's chilling, kicking it, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. And all of a sudden, Tobias gets up on his feet and there we go into, what are the frames per second when we go into the slow-mo thing? - 48. - 48, you know what I'm saying? Goes to 48 frames. And you just like go right over the top. - But it's like the knee buckle, then the fall. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was excellent. I'm now remembering why it was so shocking to me. Because you guys have been working on this episode for a long time. And then this is my one day of shooting. That's true. And I come in. You realize this was our first time all being together like that with everybody. Except for Jack. Except for Jack. But everybody was there at the same time. Yeah. And Helen Hunt. And Helen Hunt. Have you ever seen anyone how someone has a heart attack? No.

Here's three examples on YouTube. And it was all like CCTV footage from YouTube of people at a counter like... Obviously, it's not funny. It is when you meet somebody for the first time and that's what they greet you as. It's as serious as a heart attack. Listen, it's funny because Helen Hunt, who's one of the best actors in the world...

She's so serious. She is. - Very serious. - So serious. So it makes sense that she would come up to you. - I mean, the job of a guest director on a television show,

is gotta be the most terrifying, even if you've been doing it forever. - You're coming into somebody else's family. - You're coming into somebody else's house and they're like, "Hey, good luck making a show that already is a hit." - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And fitting yourself in and just, that's why. Hey, have you ever seen anyone have a heart attack? - Yeah, it's like you have to be as over-prepared as possible. - Here's the other part. You are not a series regular.

- Right, so this is what we've talked about before. It's like, I've gotten this script and at the end of this episode, Toby has a heart attack over the, it says right there, falls over the car, through the coffee table and the questions begin. 'Cause we do actually go to a Christmas break. - Yeah, we do. - Yes, we do. - We had off for like-- - We have like six weeks off. - Six weeks off. - Like we leave people hanging right there. - Of just people on Twitter

- Being like, what's gonna happen? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Did you have questions? - Yeah, did you? - No, I think-- - Or 'cause you knew going into 111. - When I got the script, I was like, "Ugh." And then,

But then I saw that I was in 111 and I was like, okay, okay, all right. - He survives. - Did you ever have the conversation with Dan is like, am I still just episode to episode? Is there, did you know that it would be more concrete before the season was done? - Again, my naivete in season one, I didn't know what conversations to have, who not to talk to, what not to talk about. - Yeah, what you're allowed to ask. - So I was just like, show up, talk to Alan Hunt.

And fall over this diamond. You know, you've been seeing them have a heart attack. And if you haven't ever seen anyone have a heart attack, it's exactly what it looks like. There you go. I nailed it!

and this episode also rounds out in that montage with kate being okay she comes out of her appendectomy she's fine as well as dr k yeah he wakes up and sees that the pearsons are in his hospital room yeah there to help him usher in yeah his next chapter but also the holiday and it's yes it's very sweet it's like okay he lives to fight another day kate is okay and this sort of mantra that i think gets carried through

Christmas is down the line for the Pearsons, this idea of like nothing bad ever happens on Christmas. That theme sort of comes up again in later seasons and stuff. - And Toby is left, is the last shot him on the operating table? What's the very last shot? - Yeah, yes. - With the heart monitor beeping and we're all left to, do you guys remember? I mean, this is a real sidebar as well.

We went to our first award show shortly after, like, days after this episode aired. We went to the Critics' Choice Awards. Yeah. And it was the first time that I had ever been a part of something that, like, you're in a sea of people that are movie stars and TV stars and regular folks who are just there to, like, attend the award show. Yeah. And we all, like, there were so many people coming up to us talking about the show. Yeah. I think it was the first...

that I was sort of like, oh, we are a part of something that people are watching and talking about and curious about because we were also just in our little bubble of like, you're going to work and just like chugging along every day. And sure, you'd go out in the world and stuff, but like, you know, we live in Los Angeles. People are pretty like blase about like,

This sort of stuff about the business. Right? And I just remember this exact moment because this episode had aired and people were... I was with you. I was with Chrissy and Sue. And people were coming up to you specifically like, what's going to happen? But it was being a part of like a water cooler moment, which it was very, very new. It's pretty cool. It was cool. I don't know how many more...

-shows will get that sort of thing. -I mean, a network television show. -A network television. -Yeah, where you're-- For those first few seasons. -Yeah. -Where you're not streaming, right? So you're not just like people binging and watching something like all at once. Like there was an event idea around it and watching it on Tuesdays and being able to like-- I mean, it just, yeah, it was a different time. You're right. I'm not sure there will be anything quite like that again.

- And the idea that like, as I remember, I can remember, and we'll wrap this up. I can remember doing OJ and being like, oh dude, like I get to do some prestige television. - Yeah. - How exciting. And I remember reading "This Is Us" and I was like, oh, this show is so good. And I was like, it's gonna be on network. So it's not gonna get the same sort of prestige, whatnot consideration.

but like it's good. And that's all that matters, right? And then it turned out to be good and it wound up catching the zeitgeist. And the fact that we got invited to those places was the most unanticipated part of it all. - Golden globes. - Absolutely, yeah. - Critics choice. - That's pretty cool. - Yeah. - To be in that conversation.

when you're telling a 42 minute story alongside dragons. - Yeah, the confines of network television versus what the freedom that everybody else had is. Yeah, it's pretty remarkable to be in that same conversation. - So this episode, this is our Christmas episode. It left people feeling all warm and fuzzy on the inside. - Ish. - Yeah. - You said you did not cry. - This is the first episode I did not cry rewatching. - That's interesting. - Yeah. - Well,

I don't know if I did. I cried. I got, you know, I cried. I cried. I absolutely cried. But that's because, again, of this personal thing that I was talking about. Yeah. And I, in terms of the reason for the season, right? What I appreciated about Dan putting in Hanukkah, putting in Christmas, talking about sort of faith, like, but also like the way people showed up.

Right, like Christmas is a time in which people show up for each other, right? So like you can say it's for a particular religious reason or not, but like people showed up. And what that ending part of us, the family showing up for Dr. K is like, hey, it doesn't matter now. Like we're family, we're here. We got your back. Like that's...

Maybe it sounds too pat for people, but I kind of dig it. I like seeing people show up. Me too. Ring, ring. We are back with another segment of the Emotional Support Hotline presented by Talkspace. Be sure to check your insurance coverage and visit Talkspace.com slash TWU to start speaking with a therapist today. All right. We love, love, love hearing your messages, Sterling. You have someone for us today. This is Jaisal.

Let me press this play and see what we got. Come on. Hi, guys. I just saw the video through Instagram about your podcast and this phone number, and I'm like, she tried it out because it's crazy amazing, and I'm so excited. Anyways, I've been a huge fan of your show. I watched it all through COVID and through my miscarriage and before the baby, and now I...

I have a two-year-old, and I'm re-watching the whole thing because it just hits different, and everyone's just so relatable. And I've already watched it, the whole thing, and now I'm re-watching it, and I'm excited to just re-watch it again later. So I talk about it a lot.

through my friends and now they're all watching it it's just it's a beautiful life story lesson and you know it's just us it's just life so thank you for doing what you do and i'm excited to watch the pod or hear the podcast watch a video of it and um

Yeah, thank you. And I miss you guys. And I'm going to watch it again now. Okay, bye. Oh, I forgot to say my name. Jazel, J-A-Z-E-L, from San Diego, California. Jazel, sweet. Let's call her. Let's call Jazel. Let's do it. I'm not going to tell you her phone number. Hello? Hi, is this Jazel?

It is. Hi, Jaisal. It's Sterling K. Brown. Chris Sullivan. Oh, my goodness. Hi. Hi, Jaisal. How you doing? Hi. I'm good. I am watching. Of course. This is us. And Rebecca just said the word caboose. Oh, wow. And it's perfect timing. Really? Wait. You were saying in your voicemail that you've watched the show a few times. How many times...

Have you watched the show? Well, it finished the whole thing, the whole six seasons, binge-watch it during COVID.

And then now I'm just like back to it. And now I'm back to season six and I am just going to rewatch it again after this. Good gracious. We love that we've been able to keep you company. Like what, what is it about the show for you that feels comfortable? Like that you keep coming back to it. What is, what is it about the show that you keep coming back to? Curious. I made a whole list. I did my homework. Okay.

No, I think it's bottom line. It's really just the connection. And I'm a Pearson now. I'm just part of your family, whether you like it or not. I'm another adopted Pearson. I'm so sorry, Randall. You're not the only adopted. It's quite all right. There's room. There's plenty of room. Come get some of this Pearson love. Yes, but it's...

It's just seeing yourself and your loved ones and all the characters and the stories and how we're all like just intertwined, just like, you know, Kevin's drawings and paintings. It's life. It's just us. You said you had a baby. How old is your baby now? Oh, actually, yes. So she is now two. She just turned two last week. Congratulations. Happy birthday. Yes. Thank you. Motherhood is a trip. Oh, yeah.

there's more there there's more there what is it what's the trip for you oh you know i watched the whole this is us before parenthood i watched it after i had my miscarriage and yeah it was i was newlywed and it was coveted and i was working three jobs so this is something which is my me time um and it hits different back then it's great but now that i'm a parent it's totally a different vibe and it's

the parenting and seeing your kids and they grow up and them having kids and how to manage little things like when they get a little heartbreak and all that stuff. So it's, yeah. Chris and I are in that same boat where, you know, obviously when the show started, we weren't parents. Sterling was. And re-watching the show now and like,

kind of living the storylines through a completely different lens makes things feel, it is wild how different it feels. Yeah, and I love it. Thank you guys for doing this beautiful work because I just can't get enough of it. Jaisal, first of all, I love your name because I ain't never heard it before. It's real cool. Is it a family name? Is it your name? Like, how'd you get your name?

I don't know. So my dad claims that he named me after the music jazz.

because she loves jazz. And then my mom says that she named me after this girl that she saw on TV named Jaisal. So now they're still at it and they're divorced now, but that's not because of my name. They just couldn't agree on who picked the name. Just to claim that, yeah. Both of them work for me. It's a cool name. Did you get compliments for it all the time? Because it's not one that you hear a lot.

Yeah, I get called different names, different versions of it, which I'm totally fine. Wait, how do people mess it up? How do they mess it up? What do they call you? Of course, they call me Giselle at first, Hazel. That's not right. High school, they go Giselle because they're immature, you know. But it's all good. I got you. Sorry, you caught me off guard.

I'm too immature to take it. I just went back to high school. Sorry. It's okay. It's all good. Thank you. You are a lovely human being. I wanted to, like, because you said it in your voicemail and you said it like, our condolences on your miscarriage, our congratulations on

on your baby and your family. So like to be able to have gone through not having anybody, to having lost somebody, to now having somebody is a beautiful thing. And I'm glad we've been able to be with you through that whole journey. So just wanted to say that out loud. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for saying that. Yeah, it's been lovely. And that's just life, you know, you go with the punches, you take the sour lemon and

Make it to something with lemonade. Come on, girl. Add tequila to it, maybe. Yes! A little tequila never hurt anybody unless you're under 21. And postnatal. Postnatal. We will let you go now, Jaisal. Thank you so much for your lovely message. Thank you for being a fan. I hope the show is good the third time around. Yeah, I hope it still hits the third time around.

out. You know? Thank you. Thank you guys so much. Such a huge fan of everybody. Thank you. Thank you, Jay. Thanks for the beautiful message. Have a good one. Bye. Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye. Jayzl. It's about as sweet as they come, you guys. I mean, and we are also grateful to Mint Mobile for...

giving us those unlimited minutes to make those phone calls back so we can chat with Jaisal. I love this emotional support hotline, guys. The EHS, it's... Oh, we've already abbreviated it. I like it. The EHS is something special.

Because like I said before, it's full circle. We feed them in ways that we don't even know about, and they come and say really kind and wonderful things about our show and the way that it impacted them. Just real quick, there's these moments in time, I don't know if you guys have ever had them, where you question whether or not what you do as an artist is important. And there are moments like these that you go like, oh yeah.

- It's important. You know what I'm saying? Like sometimes we're like, should I be building airplanes or I don't know, boat, nevermind. - Somebody should be. - Somebody should be. Not me. I'm not that dude, but I'm so happy that we get a chance to do what we do and it does have a real impact in the world. So that's it for this episode of That Was Us. That's it. We'll see you next time. - Bye. - Bye.

That Was Us is filmed at The Crow and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions and Sarah Warehunt. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith.