For Better or For Worse | "I Call Marriage" (S1E14)
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On today's episode of That Was Us, we'll be discussing Season 1, Episode 14, I Call Marriage. Toby throws a wrench in Kate's weight loss journey. Randall struggles to accept his father's failing health. Miguel and Shelly have terrible news for Jack and Rebecca. Rebecca receives a work opportunity, and Kevin examines his romantic past. Hello, hello, friends. What's going on, sister? Do-do-do.

How y'all doing? Hey, hey, hey. Welcome back to That Was Us, your favorite podcast on the ones and tens. Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe if you want us to keep recording these episodes.

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They're all worthy of supporting. So with that... Episode 14. Here we go. Another big one. I Call Marriage. I Call Marriage. And I want to say that Ryan Michelle Bethay has, every once in a while throughout the years, since this episode, said, I Call Marriage.

In what context? So give us an example. There'll be like, you know, something's going on and there's a conflict between two things and she needs me to show up for her or whatnot. And she said, hey, Brown, I call marriage. And I'll be like, oh. Got it. Got it. Understood. Got to go. Message received. Sure. That's it. I love it. Yeah. It's really interesting that I did a mother effing show that my wife references to make me be better. Yeah.

- There you go. - It's crazy. - Amazing. - It's crazy. Where does this one start? - We start at Jack and Rebecca's wedding at City Hall. - All different stages of marriage in this episode, right? The different phases, the different seasons of marriage. And so we start at the beginning of one. - Yeah, and sort of a montage of the happiest times

in the early days of their courtship and marriage, things are splendid. And then that is immediately juxtaposed with

finding them in, not present day, but in this particular timeline with teenagers. They're brushing their teeth. They're brushing their teeth. And it's just dark. Yeah. Silent. Contrast it with a little sexy, playful brushing teeth. Yeah. Right. That's right. There was that before. Just depressed. Yeah. Just depressed teeth. Time has taken its toll on these two. And it's maybe the most brutal mirror that this show's held up so far. Yeah.

- Probably. - In the sad brushing of teeth. - They just look tired and in their routine. - You know what? Like it actually is so, I find it refreshing. - Hey Sterling, why is it refreshing? - I'll tell you why I find it refreshing, Chris. - That shit is real, bro. - Yeah. - That shit is real.

That shit is real. It becomes such a cliche when people talk about, how do you stay together? How do you make a marriage work? And I heard somebody make a joke once. There was an old lady. They asked, you guys were married for 80 years. How did you stay together? And the answer was, we just didn't get divorced. There you go.

Just keep showing up. And it's like, hate to break it to you. Yeah. It might be just as easy as that sometimes. It might just be as easy as that. And those feel good drugs, those love drugs, the serotonin, whatever the thing is, are not always there. No. Sometimes for years at a time.

You gotta push through. And you have to push through. We talked about it in the last episode about sleep deprivation. And I was heavy in therapy early in our parental lives. And my therapist was just like, most marriages that don't last with kids that get divorced happens within the first two years of the child's life. Really? And they said, because people are just not...

in their right, you're sleep deprived, you're-- You've been pushed to the brink. You've been pushed to the brink, your body's been through something

completely unique that it has never been through before. A partnership that has always been, you've spent a lot of time, my friend said it well, like you spend your whole life when you decide to partner up, bringing your circle down to two. Okay, this is the unit, right? I call marriage. This is the two. And then a baby comes along, it's like, all right, but make room for just one more. Sure. And so those first couple of years,

of just letting it be. Rach and I got much better the second crowd. We're like, "Yes, yes, this first year, year and a half is gonna be different. We're gonna be parallel. We're gonna be maybe not as connected as we want to be, but let's not do or say anything that's gonna make it worse." There you go. Well played. Let it be. I'm gonna say one thing. This is a total tangent. Yeah. This is to, this is to,

pregnant couples feel a hot take coming on please keep having sex with your husband i love that that was to pregnant couples to pregnant couples yeah this is just as couples in general not necessarily okay explain so okay this is my experience and you tell me how you feel about this take your body at one point in time before parenthood was something that was sort of like with your partner

for mutual pleasure. Sure. Then you enter into a place that's like, there's a functionality beyond pleasure that my body was made for. It is to rear, raise, and grow a child, be it inside of my body and also outside of my body. Sure. So sometimes I have...

experienced in my own life where there can be sort of like, well, how can my body be something that is something for pleasure and something for the nourishment of a child? I have to choose one or the other. And then in that time, the husband is just blowing in the wind. On the sidelines. On the sidelines. And I don't know if that's in every marriage.

But I'm saying to those couples that are going through, just don't forget, there's good times that were there. And you need to continue to feed your coupledom as you raise your children. Because I think sometimes that gets pushed to the side. That gets neglected. Now tell me, is that your experience? I mean, look, look, look. It is a time of not...

Of discomfort. Yes, ma'am. I understand. It's not the most comfortable time. I am in awe of women that feel like a goddess when they are pregnant. I am not one of those women. I'm just like, let's... I'm grateful, endlessly grateful to my body, but I'm going to put my head down and march through this time and get to the end of it. Sure.

let it do its thing. Yes. So yeah, it's like, it is a tricky balance, but I agree with you. Like there is, there are still ways though to function as, as partners and husband and wife and to, to acknowledge the intimacy that should be there that you want to carry with you through all these different stages. Yeah. And an excellent time to maybe take a closer look at

at how you can express that intimacy. Correct. Yeah. In different ways. Yeah. And maybe to come to realize that physical intimacy has played, I don't know what the word is, to take a look at the role that physical intimacy has played in propping up

a relationship. Okay. Because I do know what you're talking about. Guys, we are getting real. This is early in the episode. This is early. This is early. This is early. I love this. This is free. I'm looking at our producers who are like, this is getting cut. Someone downloaded this for free. Shall we talk about this? Oh, right. This is us. This is us. This is not a sex podcast. Ha ha.

We see early on in this episode, speaking of like all of the different seasons of a relationship, after Jack and Rebecca are brushing their teeth, parents of teenagers, stuck in sort of that rut, they go out to dinner with Shelly and Miguel, where the bomb is dropped that they are getting divorced. And it really rocks Jack and Rebecca. Yeah.

because it's like a relationship transmitted disease, divorce. Yes. Where you're like, oh, that's possible? Yeah, could it happen to us? And I think it definitely like plants the seed in the brains of this couple that we love of could that be us? How did it happen to them and how do we prevent it from happening with us? It happened to my group of friends post-college. One couple broke up and all of those couples that had been together for like three, four years,

It just, not saying that they were- Like a domino effect. Like a domino effect. Everyone was like, yes, us too. Us too. And just everybody. Really? Yeah. Everybody split. Relationships or marriages? Just relationships. Just relationships. Okay. But it was one of those things where it was like, oh, well, if they-

wait we don't have to like you almost don't realize like oh that is that is an option but that is an option yeah yeah that's breaking up yeah it is it is one of those uncomfortable things because um

Like that was their couple. So like the couple that you kick it with or whatnot. So like you're messing up the whole social structure of like how we tend to enjoy ourselves is now sort of like been dismantled, right? And that feeling is a weird one. Like I haven't had any of my friends. Knock on wood, yeah. Get divorced. And I think it forces Jack and Rebecca to question each other. But Jack actually puts it to Miguel and was like, what happened?

Like he's a little more surprised, I think, than Rebecca. Rebecca's like, she's been unhappy for a long time. Like maybe saw this coming a little bit more than him, but still freaked out. I think beyond just even what happened, I think he's angry.

Like, Jack seems like pissed. Yeah, he's like, this is not how you tend to a relationship. Like, you find your soulmate. You're married forever. You ride the waves together no matter what. Like a fatherly disappointment. For sure. And Miguel's just sort of like, we stopped noticing each other. We stopped making each other happy. Huertas kills this thing. Like, every day I wake up and make her a cup of coffee, right? 6.30, make the cup for both of us. One day I just didn't make it.

And it's just like, it can be like that. - Yeah, that light bulb moment. - It is, it's weird. I always say this to people. It's like, you guys continue to grow throughout life. And if you're not careful, one person can kind of grow like that and the other person, and before you know it, what seemed like nothing, after a second, you're like, oh, wow. - You're going miles apart. - What the hell? - Yeah, no, Rach and I have been through couples therapy and it's almost like,

The contemplation, I am of the opinion that the contemplation of death or the end of life is important to a life fully lived. Okay. Yeah. And I believe also that the contemplation of divorce is important. Oh, that's a hot take. Hot take! Hot take! Is important to a full relationship. Because it keeps you from taking it for granted. We can beat around this bush, but like, do you want to? Me neither. Me neither.

Right. Okay. 'Cause what would that look like? What would that be? But we can't just not talk about it. Like that is an option. You're not trapped here, I'm not trapped here. Ooh, wow. And it's brutal. Making me feel something. And it's brutal and it's honest.

And it takes a long time to get-- You can't-- -You can't-- - Out of the gate. You can't breach that subject in the middle of a fight. - No. - It has to come from-- Distance and perspective. And honesty and compassion and love and...

knowing that it's something that is an option, which can be scary. Yeah, it shouldn't be like, exactly, but shouldn't be like feared or not talked about out of that sake. People just shouldn't be silently wondering if the other person is thinking about it or not. That is, you know, I've never thought about it in that way. I think I've thought about it because normally

Not normally. Don't make it sound like it comes up all the time, Brown. The times in which there's been difficult times and every once in a while it can come up, but it'll be in the heat of something. Sure. And that's not the time that it should happen. But if you actually have a sobriety about like, we're checking in. The pause. How are you feeling about this marriage right now?

What are you missing? What do you need from me? What can I do? What could I get from you, et cetera? Like, I think it does keep you from taking something for granted. Yeah. And it allows you to have those conversations that is like, and I've had these with Rachel, where it's just like, I am not feeling loved by you. Chris is getting real. And here is how I need it expressed. Yeah. In order for it to come through. Does she watch this podcast? What's that? Does your...

I'm just curious. Are we rolling? We're not recording this. No, listen, I record, but I don't think Ryan knows how to find podcasts. Don't worry. I'll send this to her. Thank you so much. We'll text this to her afterwards. But if you could get her to rate, review, and subscribe, that would be great. At the very least. At the least she could do. Come on. No, no. I don't mean that I've said... I mean, this is conversations that Rachel and I have had both ways. Yes. Where it's like, if you...

want me to feel loved, this is what I need. Especially after having kids, like it's almost like we've forgotten how to do it. And so the conversations are like practical. It's like, you know what I need? I need once a day for you to come up and- - Have we talked about this? What is your love language? - So my love language in order for me to feel loved is words of affirmation and grounding touch. I've told our producer Rob that. He gives me the nicest- - A lot of grounding touch. - Nicest grounding touch.

But here's the interesting thing about love languages is that people then assume that

that their love language is someone else's love language. - So if I give you a grounding touch and words of affirmation, then I'm loving you. - Sure. - But if that's not the language you speak. - Yeah, man. - Rachel for the first seven years of our marriage did all these acts of service for me thinking that- - That's what meant something. - 'Cause that was the love language she speaks. - All I need is that touch. - And I'm like, that's nice.

Don't get me wrong. I appreciate it. Thank you. But that doesn't make me feel loved. We have that in gift giving between Brown and his wife. Gift giving is your love language that you share? Not even close. Oh, oh, oh. It's hers. Oh, hers. When you give me a gift, I'm like, cool. I need that grounding touch. Yeah. Yeah. A gift means. Yeah, yeah. Nothing. Yeah, yeah. Right.

Right. But it means something to her. So I have to be better. I have to be better. Yes. I mean, this is the conversation, right? This is the conversation. So do I learn your language? Yes. Because I'm living in your country. Yes. Then I should learn to speak your language. Yes. But also. Yes. You should learn mine. Yeah. Yes. We should learn each other. Hot take. Yes. Hot take. Hot take.

Okay, wait. Let's keep moving forward with Jack and Rebecca. Because this, were you at rehearsal? Yes. My Funny Valentine? Did you pick this? No, that's a show. That is actually, yes. That's a show? Yes. Singing your face off. Oh. You're sultry with it. Oh, you're sweet. You know what I'm saying? Because people met you when you were 15 and whatnot, but you like being sultry with it. Who was your influence, would you say? I have no idea.

I think you do. I don't. Who do you like? Who's your sultry singer? Yeah. I don't know. Who do you love? We know you love Joni Mitchell. I love Joni. I would say she's a sultry singer. She can be, for sure. Not known for it. No, no, no. But she has sort of a jazzy element to her. I was a bit taken aback. I was like, oh, Rebecca's doing music again and she's kind of...

doing this like jazz thing that was, I was like back into the singer songwriter thing that she, she loved as like a young person. I don't really, I don't, there's not anybody top of mind that I can think of that I like was emulating or that I look to. But I, I, I did. She's her own thing. I,

I love this opportunity to show this different side of Rebecca, that she's revisiting this after so many years and able to tap into a very unfulfilled part of who

She is. Yeah. I think the problem is that she's kept a little bit of a secret that we'll get into in 15, but her bandmate is someone that she does have a history with. So you call it, we'll get into this in the next episode. Sure. Because you're calling it now, you're saying that you did keep a secret. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I think she acknowledged, we'll get into that. But she didn't lie. She didn't lie. She kept a secret. Sure. Okay.

- But a lie by omission is still a lie. - Same thing. - I would argue. But let's see, what else do I have written down here? - So he does say, well, Ben does say at the end of the, "Hey, great show tonight. Aren't you looking forward to going on the road?" And you're like, "Yeah, I haven't got to talk it through." - Yeah, we got offered. There was a talent scout who saw our show and wants to do a tour of the East Coast. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're like, "Oh, wow, that's cool. I got to talk to my husband, make sure it's cool." And he's like, "Well, if he loves you."

Of course he would support you. And then that's when you see Rebecca clap back. She said, hey, man.

My husband is a superhero. Don't be talking about what love is and what love ain't, bruh. Because we can end this right now. That was our first hint. There was something going on there with old Ben, old Benny boy. Yeah. Well, maybe feelings from his side, but I think... She's like, not from mine. No, no, no, no. I think Rebecca was like, this is strictly professional. I am elated to have this opportunity again. I feel like a, you know, early 20-something-year-old, like up on stage and...

But yeah, I loved seeing the shade of Rebecca. It's almost like she needed that to activate her definition of what an – like for her to remember and recognize and acknowledge, especially out loud to someone, what an incredible partner she has. Yeah. This man who has like wordlessly picked up all the slack at home and

being at both football games for both kids who play on different teams, like going through the laundry list of everything that Jack has done in order for her to be at rehearsal and to do this thing that used to be a hobby of her, you know? Like I loved that it was like, it was an easy reminder for her of like, I know what I have at home. Sure. Was this the first episode we meet Sam Trammell?

No, we met him back in episode seven, I believe. That's right. That was when she kind of this, the musical side had reemerged, as it were. To kind of put a pin in the Jack and Rebecca storyline, Jack surprises her with like a little, like we're going to go have like a little date night, just the two of us after she gets back.

from this performance and-- He packed the bag and he's like, "Come on, let's go." And he takes them to their very first apartment. Yes. And it's empty. It's filled with these beautiful Christmas lights.

They have like an overnight, I'm like, where are they sleeping? What are they doing? Why are they showering? They're not sleeping. If you know what I mean. They're staying overnight, but they're not sleeping. It's a callback too, because there's sweet lovemaking in the opening montage in which somebody tried to put a foot up on the soap.

and the soap dish came off the side. I'm like, yeah, 'cause you're trying to get a good angle. So you have to put the foot up. - Yeah, yeah. - And it came off. - I understand what you're getting at. Listen. - What? - If you're watching now, shower sex is not safe, all right? Practice safe sex. - Someone's gonna slip. - Get out of the shower.

- I'm gonna say this too. It's not that much fun. - It's not that much fun and it's uncanny. - It's cinematic on TV, but like in real life, the times in which you go for it and you're like, I'd rather be dry and moisturized. - Yeah, should we get out of here and moisturize? - Moisturize. - Now. - Wait. - Moisturize sex. - That's a whole nother thing. - Moisturize sex. - More That Was Us after this short break.

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Can I bring it back to the PG audience for everybody? Excuse me, madam. There's nothing non-PG about sex, sexual intercourse. It's a natural part of life. There might be young people who listen to this podcast, my friend. Sure. Younger people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When a man loves a woman...

Or a woman loves a woman or a man loves a man. I will just say this little tidbit. It reminded me when my husband and I got engaged, he took a cue from Jack Pearson. We went to our unfinished, our home that we were building together, that we were renovating together. And I remember he picked me up from work.

It was very Jack Pearson. He picked me up from work and I was like, oh, he'd been out of town. He's a musician, so he's always traveling. And I was like, oh, we should go see like the progress that's been made at the house. And so we pull up to the house and

He like runs up ahead of me and I'm like, "Hello, where are you going?" Like I'm trying to point out all the things that have been done or happened since he'd last been there. And he's just like nowhere to be found. And I'm like, "Taylor, hello." And I turn and like round the corner and there is a little circle of Christmas lights, a la Jack Pearson on the ground in the middle of the day, mind you. And I was like in this unfinished home, reminded me very much of this scene. - Yes.

He got down on the one knee. And I was like, I saw the Christmas lights and was like, those weren't there. Like, it took me a while to sort of like, what is going on?

the christmas lights and they're in a semi like what is going on it took me like my brain a second to catch up what was happening and then he got down on his knee and and proposed and in our unfinished home but it was it just when i was watching this scene the other day i was like oh wow that's really cool he borrowed a cue the romantic gesture yeah yeah yeah it was sweet marriage i call marriage what are your love languages real quick um

Spanish. Latin. I would say acts of service.

And what are the five? - Acts of service, gift, gift giving, grounding touch, love languages, and quality time. - Quality time and acts of service. - Affirmative words, right? You said love languages, but- - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Words of affirmation. - Words of affirmation. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah. - Okay. - I had pregnancy right there. Yes, those are mine too. And yours are grounding touch? - It's really just touch me. - Just grounding touch?

- Not words of affirmation? - No, words of affirmation are good, but I had a recent dearth of lack of grounding touch and I was like, "I'll just take that, please."

I hear you. Now, grounding touch does not mean sexual touch. No. No, no, no. It means it can. For all you dirty birds listening. It's not just. My husband is grounding touch, too. Like, if I just, like, come up behind him and, like, give him a hug, he just melts. Yeah. I mean, I love it, too, but I'm also like, no, no, you taking out the garbage before I have to ask. Sure. Yeah, we'll get you some grounding touch. We'll get you all the grounding touch you want. Oh,

Yeah. I mean. I saw a short on YouTube yesterday and it said, this is how my husband flirts with me. And it's this woman walking through the house and it's her husband giving her sexy eyes and folding laundry. Yeah.

Giving her sexy eyes and taking out the trash. Totally. Yeah. Totally. Totally. So, okay. You're saying we're wrapping up Jack and Rebecca. We're in the old place. Yes. And this big gesture of him sort of trying to counter his fears of what happened to Shelly and Miguel, being romantic, finding a way to get them back into their newlywed apartment and

And they had this beautiful, romantic, passionate night together. Yes, they do. And at the end of the episode, when they're all snuggled up together, fresh out of the shower, Rebecca breaks it to him like, I guess there's no better time. She says, the band booked a dive state tour. Five state tour. Five state tour. And I think I want to go.

And the episode ends. The delivery was so good. Just your head on his shoulder. Very quiet. And Jack was just like... So we leave that hanging there. Yes. Chris, you're talking about the importance of talking about death and accepting that as a part of life as well as divorce being a part of marriage and not something to be afraid of. So that sort of, I think, is a good segue into Randall.

because we open on Randall, he comes home calling for his family. It's kind of dark in the house, wondering where the kids are, his wife, his dad. His dad's over at the piano sitting there just like, "Oh, there you are." Randall walks over to him, puts his hand on him and William just sort of falls into the piano. - Yeah. - And then Randall wakes up like, "Whoa."

And it is so funny because when I was watching it, I was like, I don't remember this scene. Same. I was like, where is everybody? It's quiet in the Pearson house. Black Pearson house is normally full of life and vim and vigor. What is happening? And it took me a minute to realize, oh, this is a dream. And it got me. Same. It got me. And you start to recognize just how scared he is. Yeah. Yeah.

This man is going to go. Yeah. Right? And how hard he grips. He just holds on. To everything. I mean, to tradition, to whatever the thing is. The hyper focus of somebody, of his intelligence level, of his whatever it is, his personality type. His emotional intelligence. Yeah.

I think the next thing we see is him going downstairs at the chess match between William and Tess. -They're playing chess. -They're having a chess match. This is an interesting metaphor to put in the episode of "I Call Marriage." - Extrapolate. -Just chess being not a game of champ, but a game of strategy. But the thing that William says to her is, "You always protect your queen."

Which I was like, oh, that's interesting. That's good writing. That's good. They're good. They're subtle. They do big things like that. But you can see there's a growing sort of discomfort with the discussion of just like,

His illness, his sickness. Later in the episode, Beth, because her father passed away from cancer, is introducing the idea of a memory box and talking to the girls about it. And you can see Randall's just like, why are we...

What are you talking about? Yeah. Yeah, he's so uncomfortable. This is not the time for that. Like, nobody's dying right now. Didn't they bring in, was it an estate planner or was it a doctor? Someone who works in palliative care. In palliative care. And same. Again, another shade that we've never really seen him, Randall. He's just like, he,

He's distracted, he has a lot on his plate, he's overwhelmed and like... This idea of having to deal with something that feels totally unworthy of his time right now. Yeah. It's like he... He can't hide it. He can't hide his discomfort or his annoyance almost at...

what is unfolding and he just like abruptly is like, I gotta go to work. Like I've already wasted enough time. And you know, he's sort of burning the candle at both ends. - Both ends. And you also start to see like the high, the chemo high that William had from a week prior has now worn off, right? 'Cause he's trying to like do things for William. He's like, you know, I can wash a piece of fruit or whatever it is. He walks to the sink and he just sort of collapses. That's this episode.

He's just sort of collapsed and he's like, "Sit back down." So it's not, it's in his face. And his wife is doing an incredible job of preparing their children for what's going to happen. And Randall's just not there. He's not there, right? So they go to, oh, and that's what it was.

He has to, because Sanjay, or Sanjay, depending on Tyler's pronunciation, has to take out a client to dinner. And they pick this particular night, and it's also the night of his daughter's chess tournament.

And so he comes in and he's got, it reminds me of like a rayon sort of thing that used to be at a popular store called Oak Tree back when I was a kid. Rocked a lot of rayon back in my day. That's why I was like, "Oh, this is cool." And so he was about to tell his wife, he's gotta go out to this thing. And she's like, "Look, no, she's been planning this thing for a long time. It's important." And that's where we hear, "I call marriage." She's like, "I'm not gonna sit through a chess tournament by myself. Like if I'm going to this thing, you gonna be there with me."

And they go to the tournament after, shout out to Sue, who delightfully ribs Randall for his fashion choice in the episode. It's funny. It's funny and it has this sort of overlapping because it dissipates when things feel heavy, like the writers have a way and then Sue in particular, I think has a way of just dissipating like the heaviness with injecting her funny bone, right? Then we get to the chess tournament.

And you can tell he's still distracted. He's trying to check in on the dinner that he's, there's clients and whatnot, but still be here for this. She wins the chess tournament and there's celebration and you see William and Tess hugging everything. And he's just wondering, did I do a bad thing? Like, did I do a bad thing by introducing this man who's eventually going to die? Now, this is an interesting thing because I actually have this conversation with myself, not to the same degree as this.

But I do have this weird relationship with pets because I had my dog died when I was a young boy, Dutch, may he rest in peace. And it makes me reticent to get a pet. But I know I've had this conversation with you because you say like, well, that is something that everybody has to be familiar with. And what a great way for kids to learn that that's an eventuality with the pet before it happens with somebody in their life, right? And-

Just, over this arc of episodes right now, these things that are happening with Randall in terms of work-life balance, death in the home, the competition at work, he develops a slight tremor. And it sort of makes the audience go like, ooh. Uh-oh, something's coming. What's going on with this dude? Is there anything else in that arc? No, unfortunately not. I think that's just, it's interesting to...

Because Randall dealt with death in such a traumatic way when he was a kid, he's trying so hard to, like you said earlier, protect his children from the same thing. But again, you cannot keep death from your children. And it's interesting, Bear...

just at three and a half, just experienced his first death. They have two bunnies at his school. Okay. And one of the bunnies died of old age. And the school had a whole thing in place. They emailed all the parents about how we talk about this.

how we're going to tell the children that this bunny died, his body stopped working, and now he'll be planted in the ground and so forth. And it's just interesting, before children have a context about what it means to live and die, Bear has also recently, we got some encyclopedia of important things that talked about animals

uh, mummies in each ancient Egypt, which was essentially people being planted in the ground. Yeah. And so he was asking grandma and grandpa, you know, someday you'll be planted in the ground.

But he has no fear around it. Sure, sure. He has nothing attached to it. Yeah. He has no context for it. Yeah. And, you know, the bunny's names were Truffles and Kevin. Who passed away? Truffles. Truffles, RIP. But Kevin's off to a bunny camp to pick a new roommate. Okay. Which is how they send the bunny away for a week to partner up. Cool. And like find a friend. Huh.

And I was telling that story to somebody in front of Bear. And I'm like, right? And Kevin's off to camp to find a new friend. And Bear goes, yeah, because Truffles died. You're like, yeah. That's it. Yeah, that's it. You're right. Correct. And so then the question then becomes, at least for me, is, okay.

Instead of protecting or keeping death from them, it's like, how do you teach them to relate to it in a way? To not fear it. To not fear it, to understand it. But for Randall, I mean, and Kate, and it was just, there's this death in their life that, you know, maybe you never fully process. Maybe you never...

fully understand, maybe you never, you know, who knows? - It was just hard watching this episode, watching Randall specifically, because it's, you know something is coming. They're planting the seeds for some eventuality of this coming to a head and-- - It makes me deeply uncomfortable. - Yeah, it is, it's uncomfortable. - Like as an audience member, I'm like, hold it together, big dog. - Yeah, it's like the character you would least expect this from.

Like this person seemingly has all of the coping skills, all of the resources to manage these stressful moments and to see him really questioning like, did I do the wrong thing by bringing this person? It's almost like he's asking like into their lives, into my life because it has opened a cacophony.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? It's like every other thing is starting to feel like it's failing. Right. That you can't, you can't, you know, meet as a husband, as an employee, as like a father, like all of these things are starting to sort of wane. Yeah. It is deeply uncomfortable, I feel like watching. And it's such an interesting, like in an episode called I Am Marriage and an episode that I call marriage. Oh.

- I am marriage. - This is weddings.

to to pick this as a as a season of a marriage like to pick a wedding day or to pick someone getting divorced or yeah and or to pick this season of a marriage where you're having to deal with your children and death and all these things is is an interesting spot to uh to pick that one up and then i guess the the only other

not the only, the other plot line is, is a divorced couple who are now trying, or one is maybe trying-- To find their way back to each other, perhaps. Is maybe trying to find their way back to each other. So let's talk about this. God, this Justin Hartley, he comes into this diner

And he sees, I don't know who the guy is, but I know- Marla Gibbs. It's Marla Gibbs. Yeah. It's Marla Gibbs. And as you said, we sort of pepper people throughout the episode who are part of our television history, who we grew up with. And it was so delightful to see that. And so he starts talking about this booth. And for anybody who doesn't know, Marla Gibbs. Marla Gibbs was the housekeeper on the Jeffersons, 227. She was the mama on that. She is brilliant and delightful and wonderful. I was actually at a-

uh restaurant where so her daughter side bit for later on plays my mom no yes on on this is us no but later you know that's wow i didn't know that i didn't know that her daughter plays a mom wow wow wow wow that crazy that is wild um but there's a little easter egg right there the lady that that uh uh

Kevin talks to you in this diner is Randall's grandmother. - There you go. And he's telling her about this booth and how he had his first date in this booth with his ex-wife and how it's really important to her and she's gonna be here any minute and if I could just get this booth. And it's funny, it's like, he's so sincere and also this dude has the nerve to ask these old ass people to get up out of this booth. - For a booth. - Yeah. And she sort of benignly looks at him and says,

Are you the Manny? And he's like, yeah. Yes, I am. He's just like, if we take this picture or whatever, and he's like, cool, all good. And it reminded me, I don't know if you guys have these moments, and Manny, you may not. So I forget, like, you're just relating to people on a human-to-human level because you need something or you want something, et cetera, et cetera. And in their mind, they're going like,

Dude, aren't you? You're random? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But could I just get this, you know, rental car? I just need my car back. I need my car back. I need this nose fillet. Whatever it is. I need to clear, whatever. But so it was. Wait, what was your example? No, what's the thing you put up your nose for allergies? The floamies. I said nose fillets. You did say nose fillets. That's why I was like, wait a second. What is a nose fillet? And what have I been missing my whole life? Floamies. In slang for cocaine. Floamies.

- Listen, I just need the nose filets. If you could just give me. - Just deliver. - She didn't give them the booth. Right in time for Sophie to come in. And it's really sweet 'cause he's just so happy to have her in that space. And we don't know what she wants from the situation, but she eventually winds up sort of saying that like, I just wanted to like look at you and let you know that like,

to sort of be done. What does she say? I mean, in the episode previous, she ends, but he says, please just meet me somewhere and I'll think about it. And the episode ends with her texting where. Yes, right. And you think, all right, maybe she's... She's open to it. Maybe she's open to it. She comes in hot, real hot. Essentially just to tell him off. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But he ordered...

- Lava fries? - The lava fries or whatnot. - She's like, "Damn it, gotta stay for my fries, you know me well." - She sits down with the fries and they have a conversation. We wind up getting some really interesting information. Like, I guess we knew that they were married from the previous episode.

- I think the new information is that he was unfaithful. - Yes, yes, that he cheated. - That he was unfaithful. And we don't really get into, because at that point in time, she leaves and he follows her out to the subway. - Yeah, he says something about- - They're walking and talking. - He's like, "You wanna talk about it? I'll talk about it." - Yeah. - Well, he said something that made her go like, "Okay, this is over." And that's why she left and he chased after her. And they found themselves on the subway.

which got stuck. They're sitting apart from each other. Yeah. And eventually he kind of works up the nerve of like, we're stuck. I've got to talk to you. Was this the episode, Hartley does this stuff, where the old lady fell asleep on his shoulder? Was that real? No, no, no. Yes, yes, yes. Where he kind of like very gingerly moves her. Does this stuff?

He's a natural born clown. He really is. Like his precision. I watch him and I'm just like, this guy, where did he learn to do that? He's great. Yeah. He's great. And then he asked the person that changed seats and they sit next to each other. You get the sense that something could come. He's like, look, I don't, I'm not here to jack up your life.

Because she says she's happy. Because if you tell me you're happy and you tell me this guy that you're with is your guy, I will respect that and I'll back up out of your life. But if you tell me that that's not the case, if you tell me that there's a potential for something that exists here, I'm telling you that that's something that I'm ready and wanting right now in my life, right? I love the instant. I mean, we just learn so much about their history just in the simple of her asking about his family. Yeah.

She's like, how's, you know, Randall? How's Kate? And he's like, Kate's getting married and I really like the guy. And then she asks about Rebecca and Miguel. And like, you could tell she knows exactly how to rib him and calls him Miggy. And he's like, I hate when you do that. And then I love that he admitted to being a fake Facebook friend. Oh, yeah. So he could follow her life.

I thought that was like a fun, cute, very real. - What was the name? I wanna know the name that he picked. - It was Sui He Xiong. - Sui He Xiong and she was- - You are not Sui He, I'm Sui He. Chinese woman.

So he could keep tabs. That is, now I don't have exactly that, but I do have a first girlfriend from high school. She's not on any social media. So you have to follow her in real life. I have to follow her in real life. You follow her around town. Haven't been able to find her. Haven't been able to find her. But like every once in a while, not because I want anything, but I was like, she was such a big part of my life at this one point in time. I wonder how she's doing. Yeah. Haven't been able to find her. Yeah. Yeah.

So I'm not going to say her name. You could pull a Randall Pearson and hire a private detective. It's not that, no. If you're listening, we'd like to have you as a guest is all we're saying. That's what we're getting. If you dated me in high school and there's only one of you, you know who I'm talking about. You know who you are. Yeah. The email is thatwassuspod at gmail.com.

Come on. Sterling's high school girlfriend. We're on the hunt. We want to talk to you. Oh my goodness. What does this show mean to you? We want to ask you about Sterling as a high schooler. We sort of end that arc in a certain sense of... Real quick. You don't have to send us a letter, but if you just want to attach a bunch of photos...

from that time period. I look pretty much the same. My neck was bigger. I just want to see a cute little 17 inch neck. Probably weighed like 205 pounds, but was just big. I looked back and I was like, why are you so big? What was with all the neck exercises? Yeah, I was like, what are you doing? This over here? It was good times. We'll be right back with more That Was Us.

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So that, so it ends on a certain sense of hopefulness because she's like, she didn't run away. No, after he professed his love, she was. Yeah.

- Yeah. - She took it. - She took it. - But we don't know what she's going to do with that. - We don't know what she's gonna do with it. So then we go back to the immersive experience. - Yes. - I love how we love, we're all very cognizant about saying immersive experience 'cause the other term just sounds bad. - Antiquated. - Antiquated, old, old. Where is Kate at this point? She gets a visit from- - Toby. - From Toby.

- Who wants to take her into town. - And do some low impact lovemaking. - Low impact, the doctor said I'm cleared. - I've been cleared to be on the bottom. - None of that crazy stuff you're into is my favorite. - I loved that line. - But there's always this sort of like, Toby comes in and he comes in with such joy and glee, but not always his first,

thing is not to read the room per se. - Yeah. - He can be tactless. - Right. - At times. - At times, at times. - Thoughtful and tactless. - Incredibly well-meaning. - Yeah, well intentioned. - Never trying to bring things down, but he's like, he's not the dude that's like, let me take a temperature of this room real quick. And then I'll sort of, he's like, no, no, no. - I'm just gonna show up. - He shows up and he's like, I brought donuts. Come on. - I brought my grandma's ring. - We've got like the hypoglycemic syringe because we're, you know, can't do sugar.

So then she's sort of, and he comes and he hangs out.

and he bought a new outfit, I think, and he winds up going to- - He just has a quick run in on the way. She says, "No, I gotta stay." He understands, you're right. You gotta stay. - That's what you're here for. - You gotta stay. And then on the way out, he runs into Duke spelled D-I-C-K. - Spelled D-I-C-K. Wait, is that before or after you go to the class and like- - Before. - It's before. - It's before. - The next episode is where I show up at the class. - I think you're right, yes.

Is that right? Yeah. I thought you went to New York to hang out with Kev in the last episode. I'm bugging. I show up at the drumming class in the next episode. Copy that. Okay. But you do meet Duke. In the parking lot. Still got my gift bag because she forgets to take it. And I do, if I do see him, I have a wonderful double take at the end of the singing room. Oh, you forgot your...

Or I don't say you forgot your bag, but I let the audience know like, oh, she forgot her bag. Yeah. If you go back, rewatch it. It's, I mean, four years of acting college. I also wrote here, Duke is a POS. What's a POS? Piece of. It's a point of sale. Copy that. Point of sale. Point of sale.

He is a point of sale. Well, because he's a whole big thing about like, oh, this just got awkward. And you're like. To Toby. Yeah, like, oh, Kate's your girl? Oh, this just got awkward. Yeah. Like, ew. So listen, our distaste for him means let's credit the man with doing his job because. Correct. Because he is the nicest man. He's really cool. What's his name? The actor himself, Adam.

Adam, good dude who plays D-I-C-K. Which is hard for a nice guy to do. To really come across, like a truly nice person to truly come across as a Duke. As a Duke. And he also, I said, he gives Kate pause. He says he's in cabin 13. Like, if you want to, you know, talk about it, do anything about it. My ball's in your court. Yeah.

Wow, this podcast is veered into territory. It's still PG. You just have to listen close. Okay. It's like a Pixar movie. Is that the end of the October visit? Cleared for lovemaking. Kate can't take Toby in stride. This is a segment of the podcast called Welcome to Sterling's Brain. He is rolling through the files, checking his notes.

to see if he has anything else he wants to talk about. - You're not supposed to be here. You ever think I might need something from you? - This is what it's like. Oh, wait, hold on, we found something. - I think that's a good point for this. - We found something. - Because there is, it does point to, I just got out of frigging surgery. Like I could have lost my life or whatnot. I'm trying to clear all this space for you to do this thing that you need, but like I have needs as well. And I appreciate Tobias articulating that in that moment.

Because it's important. To bring the podcast back around. It is important. It's something that if you looked on social media throughout the years, every once in a while, we big three would get painted with this swath of selfishness. Which I'm like, okay, I'm okay with that. Most human beings are from time to time. We want what we want when we want it and we can forget. A group of young people who have been, quote unquote, abandoned by a parent when they're teenagers. Right.

will start to put themselves first in order to protect themselves. - But kudos to you and your character for saying like, "Hey, I'm the center of my life too. And so while I'm honoring you and what it is that you need, please don't forget that like, I just, something almost happened to me."

And it kind of snaps her in a real way and be like, you know what, man? That's on me. You're right. And Toby did give her a beautiful ring. His grandmother's ring. Yep, yep, yep. Which I did like that little moment. It felt like, okay, this really solidified. They are engaged. They are going to get married. We've been talking a lot about marriage. Should we get to our fan segment? Oh, I would love to. Let's get to the fan segment.

Toby is not my Molly, except who you are rather than be someone you're not. Nope, we're back in Sterling's brain. No, it's just like, you know, he's saying, Duke is saying that like you're trying to be something that you're not. But like, this is masterful gaslighting by this dude. That's it. Bandbook at that bar. Okay, I'm good. Let's get to the fan segment. We will be right back after these messages from our sponsors. I didn't want to miss anything.

All righty, it's time for our fan segment. We asked our listeners to share the secret to a happy, healthy marriage, and they did not disappoint. I hope I learned something. Right? Me too. I already took a look at some of these responses. Let me say this, guys. Color me impressed. Let's go. Let's go. Hit me with some boys. Let's take a look. Let's go. Let's see what they have to say. Watch this. Making time for each other slash date nights. Megan. Megan Head.

Don't leave off her last name anymore. Guys, this has just become something else altogether. Firstly, Mandy, I don't know what you're even talking about. Megan looks lovely. Megan Head.

- Oh my God. - Yeah. - How good are you guys at this? How good are you guys at date night? Are you pretty solid? Do you make space and time for that? Yes, yes. - I think we do. Not as much as I would like, but we are conscientious about it. Are you guys? - We need to do better.

We need to do better. Like, you know, the kids are at this age. It's weird because we want them to be happy. So then sometimes it means like, you know, some babysitters they like, some babysitters they don't or whatnot. And sometimes it's like, just be happy with a warm adult body. So mommy and daddy can go kick it. That's right. Mind your own business. Yeah.

watch something on the television. There you go. Yeah. The thing that helped Rach and I is one, it has to go on the schedule. It can't just be like, hey, do you want to maybe like... Go on Tuesday maybe? I agree. Time, place. Got it. But we haven't discounted breakfast and lunch. Oh, yeah. Okay. Turning those into like date time. I love that. That's good. Thank you, Megan Head. Right on, Megan Head. Veruna M. says, trust in open communication.

Trust is, if there's no trust, there's no relationship. - Right. - Any relationship. - Yeah, friendship. - It doesn't merit anything else. - Right. - Yeah, any definition. - And the open communication, we talked about this earlier, it's figuring out what you need to communicate and then doubling back and communicating it in a way that is loving and open and honest without being in the heat of a... - Group, main. - Yep. - Like a lot of times the things that I find out I need to talk about

I'm realizing it because we've had a rupture or like a little-- - Sure, sure. - And I'm like, oh, I need to talk about this. - Sure. - Now's not the time. - Yeah. - Why don't you circle back after a little while when you think of a really nice way to talk about this. - Amen, well done. Thank you, Veruna M. Hayden. - Never. - 777. - Never stop saying I love you. - That's good.

I like that. I like that. I love hearing that. I do too. Yeah. You know, and sometimes you get at the end of a phone call or whatnot, you're like, all right. You rush. You're going to do something. You have to go. But that's three words that you cannot say too much to your partner. Mm-hmm.

so i like that we grew up in a household saying i love you all the time especially like you just saying getting off the phone yes it's very it's just ingrained in like the fiber of who i am yeah it's like my family my friends like i don't have any qualms like saying bye to people and saying like love you like i just so here's interesting dudes can be a little bit different

Just like for some reason it seems too gushy to whatever to like dudes. Oh, please explain it to us. Okay. Let me let me dude explain this to you My brother and I who my brother's 14 years older than me Rarely say it at the end of a phone call, right? He loves me. I know that I love him I know it too since his wife passed away I will not end a phone conversation without saying I love that interesting. I

Why? Because I know, I feel in my soul that he needs it more. And I need to say it. I don't need it to be assumed. Yeah. I need it to be explicit. Yeah. And I think just like...

through his grieving process, I just want him to know and not have to like, "I think my brother." - Yeah. - Not second guess. - Just know my brother just said it. - I think I've realized maybe it's only recent, maybe in the last 10 years that my love language is words of affirmation. And I've started to realize like, well, if I want it, I need to give it. - Sure. - And so I say it a lot. - When it needs some seed, yes sir. - Including to people, I shouldn't say it too.

They're not deserving of your I love you. No, no, no. I just mean like the UPS guy drops off a page. Thanks. Love you. Not him. God. It like...

It just flies out. Love you, folks. Thank you so much for the tech support. All right. Yeah. Have a good day. Love you. Nope. No. Chris. Christopher. Do you really? It has slipped out at the wrong, like, because it just is, I don't know. It's just on my. It's a better thing to have slip out than that's what she said. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's good. Yeah. That's a positive. I do the other one. Randomly.

I'll do it. Thank you. So that's the end of this episode. No, I'm just saying that that's the thing that I do. And yours is a better one than mine. What's the next one? Grace. Forgive me. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Say that name. Go ahead. Say that name. As Chimweg. No, I don't know. Now you say it, Sterling.

Listen, when you're starting a social media account, one of the things is a name. How would you pronounce that? A shimweg. A shimweg. That's what it sounds like. Well, they say grace, forgiveness, laughter, fun, and adventure. Yes to all of those. That was just exemplified in my response to your pronunciation. Yeah.

Grace is a big one for me and Rach. We constantly, because we can get into these rhythms where somebody thinks maybe some, we make up stories. Sure. About like, oh, I know what you're thinking. And I know you well enough to know what you're thinking. So when you said that, what you actually meant was this. Right, right. And Rachel has something that she has come up with in her business life, which is, it's called MRI, the most respectful interpretation. It's like, if you're going to make up a story,

Why not fantasize the most respectful version of that story instead of making up the worst? Yeah. And it works in life. I mean, it's grace in life. I love that. It works in traffic. Like if someone cuts you off, you have, you're going to be making up a story about this person and you've got two options. It can either be one of grace and forgiveness or one of,

F this POS. F this POS. I think about that like just on grace for oneself in a relationship or in life. I think about how

Everybody's had these moments on screen or on stage or whatnot, and you have like a hiccup in your brain and you can't remember a line. And I think early in my career, I would have this sort of like self-flagellating thing of like, ah, what the F is wrong with you, Brown? Get this thing together or whatnot. And I would never do that to a fellow castmate. And I was like, why can't you be as kind to yourself as you would be to anybody else in this particular situation? Including my partner. Including my partner. Forgiveness. Listen, laughter, forgiveness.

for my wife and I is probably number one with a bullet. We go hard in the paint. I think we keep our hearts healthy and strong.

because we laugh so daggum much. - I love that. - Like it really is one of the cornerstones of my marriage. So I think a shimweg hit that one on the head. Fun and adventure, don't forget about that. You wanna do one more? - Old David Bombonato. - Hey! - That's the best last name. - Bombonato. - Bombonato in the house. Having a strong foundation of friendship and love.

How can that go wrong? It's an important, foundation is a term that gets thrown around a lot in a relationship, but it is important. Essential. It is important. I think because if you forget about it, that oddly enough, there are things that you can wind up doing and saying to your partner.

that you would never do or say to your friend. - Yeah. - Right? So if you always remember that like, oh, this before anything came between us. - You're my friend. - She was like my best friend. Someone I could run and talk to when me and my, anyway. - Agreed. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Friendship's big. - Yeah. - One more?

Georgina Jones, 2014, saying that sense of humor and tolerance of a messy house. Secrets to a happy marriage. And then this emoji. This is the audio of this emoji. So you think of what this emoji is, and I'm going to go. That's exactly what I think of when I see that emoji. You know exactly what emoji I'm talking about. Sorry, Georgina. You don't tolerate mess? No. I mean, not tolerate it, but I prefer mess.

- A house in order. - Do you feel like your tolerance for mess has grown since becoming a mother? - It has to. - It has to. - Yeah. You have no choice. - You do the best that you can, but like the kid's gonna kid. - Yes. - Yeah. Have you taught them how to clean up after? Have you taught Gus how to clean up after himself? - Gus is starting to learn the concept of cleanup, but it's still, he gets distracted. - Well, mine is 13 and it's still. - He knows how to throw things away and help put his dishes in the sink and whatnot. - Okay.

- This is in the sink is good. - Yeah, it's helpful. - Aoife has enjoyed the game when we go out to like a bookstore or something of she'll pick up everything, right? And she'll show it to me, I go, wow, can you put that back?

She gets all excited, puts it back. Whoa! You did that? And the game is her being like, and this? Yeah, can you put it back? And it's the most exciting part. She only picks things up now to put them back, which is kind of working out. Amazing. It's a good game, man. It's a good game.

I think that was a really saucy episode of That Was Us. The sauciest, dare I say. I hope you enjoyed that commute to work. Gave you some pep in your step. Yeah, please reach out to us at thatwassuspod at gmail.com. Chris, do you want to hit us with that number? We have an emotional support hotline that is brought to you by Talkspace. And...

And the phone number for that is, it's a Pittsburgh number. Did you know that? Yes, it is. It is Pittsburgh area code. 412-501-3028. Again, that number is 412-501-3028. Give us a ring. Leave us a message. Maybe we'll give you a ring back. And that was us. Thanks for listening. See you next week. Thanks, friends.

That Was Us is filmed at The Crow and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions and Sarah Warehunt. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith.