Surrender to Forgive w/ Laura Lentz
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You could sit there and listen to ads, or you could take a moment to have a Diet Coke break. First, grab a chilled Diet Coke, because if you want it to be perfect, it needs to be crispy. Next, get a big cup of ice, because everyone knows Diet Coke is best served swimming in ice. Then, sip it slowly, feel that burn, and enjoy your break for as long as possible. When you need a break, don't forget to grab an ice-cold Diet Coke and take a Diet Coke break.

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I am one of the people who are of the belief system that you can say anything you want to someone if you figure out how to say it. Jesus paid the price so that I didn't have to get on the cross and live up to something that I couldn't be. Being able to stay and wait on the Lord has been my biggest strength and that's my hope for people that when you are in a tough, broken place, remind yourself that you will see the goodness of the Lord, whatever that situation is.

All right. So I'm going to be honest with you. I am on vacation in real life, but I'm recording this early, which means I still don't know who your president is. I don't know. I mean, I know, but I can't, me and you can't unpack who your president is. So I don't even know what to tell you. We may not even have one the way this country is set up. Who knows what's happening? But one thing I know for sure is I'm so

we're on vacation, okay? Where I am, I am the president. Rest is the president. Sleep is the president. Me taking naps is the president. My man, my man, my man is the president. And that's 10 years of wedded bliss. I don't know what to tell you about that. So I can't even tell you what's happening in the world. But I can say that I love you and that I just pray God's best.

over this nation and over the world because we're going to need it. And also, Jesus, if you want to come get us, we wouldn't mind it. We have missed quite a few things that will be, we will humble ourselves and say, we don't know what we're doing out here. If you want to come pick us up, come pick us up. Okay. So yeah, that's it. I can't even tell you how I'm doing because I'm in the future. Like I'm not, you know what I mean?

Like this podcast is coming to you from a place I haven't even been yet. So I don't even know. I hope I'm doing well. I hope I'm tan and melanated. I hope that I am well rested and just basking in the presence of the Lord. So let me mind your business. Here we go. Let's go. Hi, my name is Nazca. I'm originally from Houston, Texas, but now I live in South Carolina due to the military. I recently retired.

This transition, nobody talks about women in the military and trying to get the position back in the home. So this is my business. I'm trying to evolve from a soldier to a wife to a stay-at-home mom.

And it's not easy. So if you have any advice or anything like that, I'm in my word. I'm just not lying about it. I'm in my word. I'm catching up on every episode, every podcast. Y'all won't let me mind y'all business because all the tickets were sold out when I tried to come. So I'm standing by. I'm on the wait list for new tickets. But until then, Sarah, help us veterans.

Transition and evolve into like natural women. I know with God all things are possible, but I can tell you this stuff is not easy. And a lot of times we're misunderstood. And a lot of times there's not a lot of places of comfort for Christian veterans. It's all about the men and this and that and the third. But to have a space or to get some advice or anything like that, that's what's going on in my business.

transferring from active duty to return. And it's been going on for a while, but just trying to find that place, trying to find my new tribe, trying to find my new identity.

trying to find, not overcompensate, compensate from being deployed so much. It's just so much that's never talked about. It's never talked about. And we out here. We out here trying. So on behalf of every veteran military woman that's retiring, that's our business. You know, we serve the country, but now we're trying to evolve and serve our families. And there's no instruction to that.

So I just want to let you know I appreciate what you do and everything that you're sharing. It gives me some kind of insight or a chance to, you know, learn what y'all did experience. And I really appreciate that so, so much. So thank you. Thank you to your family for sharing you with us. But, yeah.

We need a veteran to go off of this. It ain't for the weak. I pray that you're having an amazing day. Be blessed. And thank you, thank you, thank you for the vision and following God on this. So many lives have changed because of you and your team and your family. Thank you again. Be blessed.

First of all, I want to thank you for your service. I know that oftentimes when we think about those who are serving in the armed forces or the military that we think of men, but I am fully aware that there are so many women who are

on those front lines who are suited up and who are serving their country, oftentimes at the expense of not being present in the lives of their family and their children. And so I want to thank you for the ultimate sacrifice for our freedom and protection. I'm really grateful. I can imagine that that is quite the...

quite the transition to go from whoever you must become in order to be in the military to whom you need to be in your home. And I can imagine that with that transition, I think even when we have conversations about PTSD and transitioning from military into home life, it really centers around men. But to your point, there's not a lot of conversations about women. I cannot tell you that I can give you personal advice. Obviously, I haven't been there. But I can tell you that I can give you personal advice.

But I can share with you what I'm just learning about wearing many hats and really having to transition from a hat that can be high demand, very cognitive, very intellectual or physical into something that requires a little bit more vulnerability, softness and confidence.

I say femininity loosely, recognizing that that term has different meanings and different connotations for different people, but a more nurturing role. And what I will say to you is it's part of the reason why I wrote the book Power Moves is that what makes us powerful in one context is

that same set of characteristics doesn't make us powerful in a different context. So we have to discover what does power look like for me now as a mother, maybe in the military, it had X, Y, and Z components. But now that I am a wife and a mother, I need to figure out what power looks like for me within what's within reach for me as well, because I don't want to live up to someone else's definition of power. And so I would say

advise you to take a minute and to really determine, am I trying to live up to someone else's expectations of what it means to be a mother and a wife?

Does that definition resonate with what is within my capacity? What is within my skill set and availability? Like, can I even live up to that? Or am I trying to stretch myself, perhaps even break myself to be someone else's definition of a good mother? I am reading a lot about responsive parenting and just being responsive in relationships in general. And I would...

Then challenge you to ask yourself the question, what would make a good wife for my husband? What makes me a good wife for my partner? What makes me a good mother for this child? What makes me a good mother for the other child? What are their needs? Recognizing that the people who are in my life, that God has assigned them to me.

to me and assign me to them, which means that God knows exactly what I'm working with and what I'm not working with. God knows what I can offer and what I can't offer. God knows what they can pull out of me that I didn't even know was what was in me. And so sometimes we have asked our children, like, you know,

Did I say children's? Ghetto. Sometimes I have asked our children, you know, like, what's one thing that mommy can do better? And, you know, sometimes like just give me candy all the time. Or sometimes when you're working, I feel like I'm annoying you. And it helps me to understand like, OK, I need to.

I asked Ella this the other day and I'm like, OK, would it help if I told you like, hey, I'm studying for a test right now? I need a minute. Or do you just want me to stop everything? So I want to make sure that she has realistic expectations, too. And she's like, no, it will help me if you would just tell me to wait a minute. And that way I wouldn't feel annoyed. I don't want you to try and show up in your life as what you think other people need when you can find out from them directly what it is that they need from you.

Because you may be stressing yourself trying to make sure that you're making homemade bread and being Norah Smith Jr. over there when all your children want is for you to take them outside and play. And that could be something that is within your ability to do. And to be able to share with them like, hey, mommy's trying to figure out how to be a mommy again. Mommy was gone. And now I get to be here with you all the time. And I'm really excited about that. So I may need your help trying to figure out what you need to have those types of conversations with your husband.

And I think instead of judging and assessing your performance in the wife category to make space for you to be a person who is also a wife to allow him to understand that I am transitioning. This has been a little bit challenging for me, and I would appreciate your patience, your sensitivity, your communication, and

as I figure out what I'm able to do. I am one of the people who are of the belief system that you can say anything you want to someone if you figure out how to say it.

Creating a space where honesty and transparency is the baseline and norm for all that you do is the gateway for power. And if you're going to be powerful as a wife, as a mother, as a sister, as a friend, you have to be willing to first be authentic and from that place of authenticity to really say, all right, God, I'm going to do this.

I don't have it. I can't be who I saw my mother be. I can't be who I see the person on television or on social media being, but I can be me. God, I need your wisdom, your strength, your insight into how you can get the glory out of every single role that I'm showing up in without me also, um,

becoming the sacrificial lamb that you died so that I didn't have to do. You know what I mean? Like Jesus paid the price so that I didn't have to get on the cross and live up to something that I couldn't be. And instead he gives me wisdom. He gives me insight into how, where I am can be used for who he wants me to become and how he can take where I am and use it for his glory. And so I think there's an opportunity to surrender, to say,

this is where I am. This is what I have. God, show me how to work it. Show me how to use it so that I can create an environment where my children see me, see you working through me and can also see me as a person. So I know that that may not. I will also say there's probably some type of connect group, some type of

ministry, some type of community that can be built around this growing number of women who are transitioning from military into home life. Because if no one's talking about it, that means that there's a stage and a platform for someone else to do what no one else is doing. So maybe this is your call. And that's something that you should marinate on because it sounds like there's a need for it. And I'm sending you...

God's best wishes and just love as you discover how to take this pain point and transform it into purpose that can bless other women. Evolve. This is Coke Zero Sugar. Could I be the best Coke ever? Try and taste with your ears. Hear those bubbles? Imagine them tingling on your tongue. Fizzy deliciousness.

Listen to that cascading liquid, a mouthwatering waterfall, irresistibly tasty, zero sugar, crisp, refreshing, and ice gold. Is Coke Zero Sugar the best Coke ever? Try and decide. There were so many layers to my conversation with Laura that I felt like this episode really needed to be probably just many sessions long, but

We obviously talked about the betrayal that she experienced within the context of her marriage, but then she experienced church hurt. She was also experiencing some betrayal within friendships. And then just based off of the way that, you know, this cookie crumbled, there were a lot of people who felt hurt by, you know,

What happened between her and her husband? And I wanted to ask her how she was dealing with those many layers of betrayal. And before we hop into the second part of this conversation, I want to talk a little bit about betrayal in friendships.

I do believe that friendships are more romanticized than actual romantic relationships. That when we have a friend, we kind of anticipate that they're going to be like the siblings we never had and that we're going to be able to weather whatever storms come our way. And then life happens and we see a side of a person that we

We never thought that we would see. We never knew that that side of them existed and we are charged with trying to make it work, letting it fall apart. Either way, that feeling of betrayal has to be acknowledged and addressed for us to experience healing. And so while we talk about the different layers of healing that one must go through when they experience anything as catastrophic as infidelity, especially one that was as public as

I think that the layers of how expansive this hurt was is something that I really wanted us to take some time to dive into. I have experienced betrayals in friendship and I think it's important to understand

that betrayals in friendship is not necessarily, you know, the big ones like, oh, my friend slept with my husband or my boyfriend. That sometimes betrayal is just that you weren't there. When I think about Peter in the Bible denying Jesus and Peter thinks himself, I would never do that. And then doing that,

That denial was hard for him to comprehend, but his absence was, it was felt by Jesus. Him denying him, he knew that that was something that was going to occur and that he was going to have to face a hard season on his own. But that denial was not necessarily the betrayal that Judas performed, but it was...

betrayal of the bond that I think Peter thought that he would have. And so I want to say that if you have found yourself maybe not showing up for a friend in the way that the bond would have dictated, not showing up

For someone who's going through a hard time, maybe you didn't feel like you had the words. Maybe you felt like you couldn't show up or you couldn't change anything. So you stayed away because you're a fixer. And if you can't fix, you go away. Or because it was just messy and you didn't want to get your hands dirty and you feel convicted about that. You feel like you wish you would have done things differently. I just want you to know that it's not too late to acknowledge that hurt, to acknowledge this reality that you...

Wish you would have done better and hope that if there is an opportunity in the future that you will do better. But betrayal and friendships are real. And yet there is healing on the other side of them. I am navigating a healing in a friendship and it is required just to

thorough communication, over communication. And in that over communication, I think we're experiencing healing and growth. And so I wish the same for you if you're going through that. But I also just want you to hear more from my conversation with Laura Lentz. If you didn't hear it last week, put a pause on this and go back so that you can be all caught up because you don't want to miss anything that was shared throughout this conversation. I am wondering what did you have to surrender in order to forgive?

I'm going to ask you, I'm going to ask you, I'm going to break it up. What did you have to surrender in order to forgive him? And then I want to know like what you had to surrender in order to forgive the people in church who hurt you. Okay. I think I had to surrender just my pride. It was pride and like,

Because you, you've, I hadn't, the thing is, I had no idea that this was in my marriage. And so you're in church and you're like leading and you just, you feel like, yeah, we've got a great marriage. Our kids are great. You know, all of these things. And then your world comes crashing down. And so there was that, but then the, the anger that I would feel towards him and that, that

Yeah.

But we were very honest in those moments. And I think for me, that helped me get through because I was very much like that Christian that would just push everything down and move on and forgive and keep going. And I had to really learn to let my feelings out. And I'd never done that before. And so that was very, it was firstly very hard, but also very freeing. And being able to say things to him in a safe space was very freeing.

And so there was that. And in terms of the people, that took me a lot longer. Really? It's taken me a lot longer, I think, for the people that had left. Because it's hard to understand, especially when, you know, for Carl and I, we're those people that will be with you no matter what. Like we're just those friends, you know. And so when our friends...

kind of like up and left. And I understand now why, and I get it. I get it because, well, firstly, they're confused. They don't know what's going on. They don't know if they can trust what he said or who he is because of, because of everything it's betrayal, right? It betrayed everyone in terms of that side. And so I understand that, um,

But I had to really go deeper to have that empathy for other people of like, okay, I just had, I really had to dig deep. I had to dig deep for that because I just felt like there's other people out there that have gone through similar things and they were there for them and they still have them in their church. They still have them there.

or preaching or coming to be that special guest, you know, like so it's not like it was just because of the infidelity, you know, it's like what can I bring to you? Like what could Carl do for them anymore? Not much. And that was hard for me to really see that side of people of like, oh, right, now that we have nothing, that's –

we're kind of like pushed off to the side now. I get it. So that was a tough thing for me because we're just not that type of friend. But also I've had to – and Carl's much better. He would have a much better response than I do. He is like –

because of his therapy and all the rehab stuff and all the stuff he's done to work through his, you know, his steps that he's done and all that stuff. Like he knows that he's the one that has caused these problems and these hurts. So he gets it. When you're the one that isn't,

the one that's caused the pain but your friends still leave, that's really tough. And I think I just, I pray that for my friends, they never have to, my old friends, I pray that they never have to feel what I've felt and what I went through because you just need one or two people. It's not like I was asking anyone, wow, I'm emotional, thanks for making me cry. I'm Oprah and just call me Oprah. Yeah, you are. Exactly. Exactly.

But you don't wish it on anyone. And then I think when you don't have that support from people that I wasn't like asking you to come and like be my friend and be Carl's friend. It was just like you can't even send a text. Like you can't even say, hey, thinking of you. There was probably about three people that did that from our old huge life, you know. So that was really tough.

Maybe I'm still working through that. That's fine. That's fine. Take your time. Do you feel like, because I don't think I, I don't know that we had met before everything happened. I don't even know if I was following you before everything happened. Yeah. But I tried to, like, I really, I didn't know you well enough to be like.

Girl, how you doing? But could you sense like a little more leaning in from like people on the outskirts who were like, cause I try, I really, what my heart really went out to you and you, you weren't blatantly talking about it publicly and I didn't know you personally, but I would just like be commenting or stuff or liking stuff. Cause I just, I hate this idea of

you're loved, people have this sense of connection to you, then something happens. And I think that's my own trauma. I got pregnant and all of a sudden you're a pariah. No one wants to be around you. So while I know that

Like no one could make up for those close friends that you maybe thought should have, could have, would have been there in those moments. I just want you to know that in that season of your life, I'm sure that there are more people who are like me, who are like, man, I hope she's doing okay. And if liking this post or laughing about this thing or dropping a comment is just a reminder that like we see her as a person and a woman outside of all of this. Like I hope that this adds to that because like,

We do, we need people in moments like that. Absolutely. I definitely felt it from people like you, you know, that were like new of us and knew our story. So it was, that was all lifelines for me at that time. Yeah. For sure. For sure. Yeah. Well, we, I, you know, I, I haven't done a lot of work. So, you know, in my mind, we could do like one or two things. Like we could pray for them and we could ask God to soften our hearts or

Or we could put sugar in their gas tank and slash fire. Yes. Jess, you know what I mean? And you just let me know. I love you. Well, that's something that Carl would do too. Like he was that type of friend, you know. I love it. How do you define forgiveness in your own words? You know, I think I've talked about this too. We talked about this at some point, but it took me...

three years to say, I forgive you to Carl. So I didn't like, I like that. I like that. Yeah. I, I just feel like, I feel like sometimes, you know, we're told again, as Christians, you got to forgive and forget and get on with your life. And I was like, no, I've,

This was the last thing that I had to protect myself. This was the last piece for me that I really just needed time and I think it's okay. And I think there's so much pressure to, you know, be that good Christian and, like, forgive. So for me, like, I had forgiven him, but I just couldn't say it. Yeah. And I couldn't say it. And when I did say it, I completely broke down. Yeah. But...

So I think it's okay to take your time and to protect yourself and to feel safe to say you forgive someone. And I didn't necessarily have to say it to his face, but I felt like I did. You know, I had to. And I don't even think he had realised that I hadn't forgiven him, you know, because we've done so much work together and all of that, but it was...

For me, it was just that final letdown of that guard that I had put up to protect myself. And I had to take that time to say, I forgive you. And I think that's okay. And I think God knew my heart. And I'm not, you know, I just feel like sometimes people need some time to say, I forgive you or, like, let's move on from this. But...

Yeah, sometimes you just feel that pressure to do it straight away. And I just don't know that that's healthy. You said something that I think

We don't talk enough about when having conversations about forgiveness, which is that unforgiveness feels like protection. It's not necessarily that we don't think the person deserves it or that we are incapable of it. But sometimes there are moments where forgiving you feels like being vulnerable again. Yeah, I can totally relate to like,

This unforgiveness, you can call it bitterness, whatever you want to call it. It feels like as long as I live with the reminder of what happened, I can keep it from happening again. I can make sure that I see you through this lens so that I know what's possible from you. And so unforgiveness is doing me a favor by staying present in my heart because to forgive is to open myself up to perhaps the possibility of it happening again. But like-

Why is that not true? Tell me about the work you did that made that not true. I think I, I mean, I had done, I have done so much work and I think I just needed, I just needed time. And I think something like this, when you're so betrayed, it takes time and it takes time and a lot of work and a lot of mindfulness to get to that space of being able to like fully be

be able to forgive someone. I don't know if that answers your question. No, I think it does. I think that, I just think there's something to be said about unforgiveness not being real protection and nor does it keep it from happening again. And forgiveness itself isn't necessarily guaranteeing that something won't happen again. It's recognizing that it happened, that I'm okay. And

If it happened and I'm okay, then I can survive whatever is next on this crazy wildlife called... This crazy wild ride called life. Like, I don't want to face it again. But there may be something else that happens. It's completely different from this. I think forgiveness is an opportunity to honor your resiliency. Yeah. Absolutely. I do totally agree with that. Okay, so...

How's family? How's life? What's your dreams? What excites you now? We are so good. We are in Tulsa. We live in Tulsa, which of all places I just never thought we would be. But we are here. We go to Transformation Church with Pastor Mike Todd. And he was someone that

kept reaching out to Carl in, you know, during these years. And it was actually Natalie as well, his wife, who really kept pushing on Mike to reach out to Carl and keep like, keep making sure he was okay and keep making sure we were okay. And so we came to visit one weekend and, um,

I just was like, cause at the time we're in Florida, which was fine, but it just didn't feel like home, but it was just a great hiding place for the moment that we're in. Um,

So when we came to Transformation, we just came to, like, visit for a weekend and I just sobbed. My son was with us who was, he would have been 13 at the time, 14, yeah, 13, and he was like, I could come to this church because everything would remind us of Hillsong, the church that we'd been at. And so being at a multicultural black church was just amazing.

so beautiful for us and such a different pace. And, like, we just fell in love with it. And Mike is just such a special leader and such a great friend. And we were flying out back to Florida and I just said to Kyle, I think we need to move. I think we need to be with Mike. And so he had the conversation with Mike and he was, like, open arms, you know, like, come be. And he said to us something really beautiful that I think just made

I needed to hear at the time, which was I want to stand next to you, Carl. I want to get blood on my shirt basically for you. Like I want to show the world that you can stand next to someone and see a restoration happen and see a family heal. And for me that meant everything. Yeah. And to see the way that, I mean, you would get this, but just how –

you've, you were brought in as family and you are protected as family, um, is just so remarkable and so special. And I hadn't, I hadn't felt that in a long time. So yeah, we love it. We love it here. It's a dev, definitely a different pace. Um,

But we love it here. My girls are in college. They're in California. They are living the absolute dream. They go to this beautiful, like, liberal arts Christian college out there and they just, they love it. Carl's actually with them right now, actually. He went out there yesterday to be with them for a couple of days, but...

Yeah, they're just wonderful. The kids are great. Him and the kids have such a great relationship because I think he's been so honest and open. Yeah. And them seeing this side of their dad that, like, they hadn't seen. So they're all really close and we're great. The dreams in my heart would be, I think...

Just being able to, I talked to my life coach, my coach the other week about it. I was like, what am I doing with my life? Like, I just feel like, ah. So she was just helping me, you know, frame a few things. And I just, I feel such a burden for women who have been in my position or who are in my position who have lost their voice. Yeah.

And that is kind of my dream right now is to help women find their voice for themselves and be in a place of strength, even in a marriage or as a single person or whatever it is, but just to be able to have a voice and be

find it and use it because I think for so long for me I had lost it. I had lost that voice. And going through this process I really realised what was in me and what I was capable of and the strength that I did have. And I always felt like I was, like I'm Aussie. I'm like, yeah, you can just do anything you want. Like, you know, we're strong as a people. But I think life had just, like, taken it out of me. And so...

On this side, I just really feel, and the amount of people that reach out to me, I just feel such a heart for that. Like just being able to help other people in a similar situation. So, yeah. This is Coke Zero Sugar. Could I be the best Coke ever? Try and taste with your ears. Hear those bubbles? Imagine them tingling on your tongue. Fizzy deliciousness.

Listen to that cascading liquid. A mouth-watering waterfall. Irresistibly tasty. Zero sugar. Crisp. Refreshing. And ice gold. Is Coke Zero Sugar the best Coke ever? Try and decide. Do you feel like you're at a stage... This is my last question and I'll leave you alone. Thank you for letting me mind your business. Of course. Do you feel like you're at a stage where...

You're not necessarily grateful it happened, but you have found the blessings that may have not been uncovered unless it happened.

I can say that I'm grateful. Okay. Which is so crazy to think that I would ever say because back, you know, when I was in such pain and such brokenness, I was like, this is like F life. You know, I was just like done. It's like I hate everyone. I hate everything. But on this side, seeing the blessing of,

what life is and what my marriage is now, like because we're so connected and we've done so much work to be so connected. I just never thought this would be possible. And so I am absolutely grateful for where I am. I'm grateful that we are, you know, in the space that we're in at the church that we're in with the people that we do life with, like,

It's very different and I never thought that I would be able to say that, but I love it.

I love this side. Yeah, I really do. And that's my, I think that's my excitement for people who do, if you do end up going through something like this, it's either going to be like you get stronger together and your marriage is going to be, you know, everything you thought it could be, or you're by yourself and you're strong and you're doing everything you thought you could do and you are greater for it.

So I just think sometimes, you know, life throws us some really hard stuff and you've got two choices. And, you know, there was a scripture that was given to me right at the very beginning and it was in Psalm 27, you know, where it talks about, I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. And then it says, and just wait on the Lord, basically. It was like, you just wait. And that has been...

what has held me in this space has been like, I will see the goodness. I know I will. It's just going to take some time and I will wait and I will see it. And in that time, I've been honest. I've been open. I've been broken. I've been all these things that being able to

stay and wait on the Lord has been my biggest strength. And that's my hope for people that when you are in a tough, broken place, that you can just remind yourself that you will see the goodness of the Lord, whatever that situation is. You know, it's funny. I love that. I feel like one of the things that I have, like just, it's scary as God allows us

to continue to impact other people. It is scary. And I try to be as authentic and honest as possible. And obviously, you know, as holy and righteous and in pursuit of the Lord as possible too. But I still think it's scary to feel vulnerable to people and vulnerable to their feelings

whatever could possibly get you canceled from day to day. But I will say that whenever I've had moments where it was like, whether it was a lie that was circulating and going viral or just like some TikTok, something that was happening where I'm like, oh my gosh, what if this is like the beginning of a snowball effect and people are going to just like, you know, like starting out someone from college is talking about how you used to smoke weed with them. And then, you know what I mean? Like, what if all of these,

of these things. And I'm like, I think I told them about that. I think I already said that. Like, what else do I need to, you know? I started thinking to myself, like, if either one or two things are going to happen, God's going to protect you and these weapons are formed and they are going to prosper. Or these weapons that prosper are weapons that God is using to deconstruct the

an image, a philosophy, a belief that you have subscribed to, like if this can tear your ministry down, if this can tear down what God has done in your life, then God has allowed it. And you have to trust that you are not just your ministry. You are not just who people have gravitated towards, that you are a child of God first. And so I feel like

I want to thank you and you can just give my regards to your husband as well. But I just want to thank you for...

being a model of what happens when you allow your life to be torn down, like literally, like just kind of lay down and let it crumble and then only rebuild with God's hand and with patience and with humility and transparency. I pray that I don't go through what you went through. I pray. Be true. Jesus.

If there is some version of something that happens in my life that reminds me of what it is like to have been in your shoes or that allows me to pull from this conversation, I pray that I don't just pull from what you modeled, but that I'll pull from the joy that's on the other side of the crumbling. Because I just...

I have a lot of honor for someone who just allows what happens to happen so that God can be God and then you can be restored. And I pray that that is the legacy of your ministry that outlives any narratives, any story that has been told, because I think that that what you all have modeled is

is the one thing that we all need to lean into is just letting God tear down what his name wasn't on so that we can rebuild with what he has given us and what's left. So thank you. I hope that came out the way I meant it in my heart. It did. Thank you so much. I love you. I love you too.

That's it. This has been another episode of the Woman Evolved podcast. And I hope that as you were listening that you felt hope.

Maybe it's not in a relationship. Maybe it's for a friendship. If you have experienced any number of heartbreaks that you felt like you couldn't recover from, I hope that Laura's story lays a foundation for you to start leaning into what healing can look like for you and to not put any limits on what that healing could look like. I bet you there is a chance that... I think she actually said that where...

If you would have told her in advance that she would have never in a thousand years thought that she would stay, that they would work it out. She thought that she would be one who would make a different choice. But when you're in the moment and you're open to however God wants things to play out, I think that it allows you access to restoration that you couldn't have imagined either. A lot of times we say we would never go through something because we don't trust that we could be restored from it.

And yet their life is serving as an example that unbelievable restoration can happen even after unbelievable heartbreak. And so I'm grateful for her generosity and sharing her story and trusting me. And I pray that I was able to honor that vulnerability and to be delicate with it because I can only imagine because I have been in a similar situation where you're sharing some of the hard truths about your life.

but prayerfully God's getting the glory out of it. And so I just thank you, Laura, for taking the time to talk to me. And I'm grateful for the way that you opened up your scars so that we could be healed. Thank you very, very much.

God, I thank you. Lord, we're talking about the way that we have been betrayed and how many times that we betrayed you, betrayed your word, betrayed your call, betrayed what we knew to be your truth for our life and choosing our own. And so God, we repent. We ask that you would allow us to really lean into what restoration looks like in our relationship with you. We thank you God for grace.

We thank you, God, for mercy. We thank you for your forgiveness. We thank you for giving us another chance that the mere fact that we're listening right now, that we hear your voice, that we have heard this podcast is a sign that you're willing to extend your arms towards us again. And we say yes, yes to your will and yes to your ways. Help us to forgive ourselves for the ways that we have betrayed who we thought we would be.

the way that we have betrayed our own morality and our own integrity and allowed our brokenness or temptation to rule over us. We renounce covenants that we have made with brokenness. We renounce covenants that we have made with insecurity, covenants that we have made with lust, covenants that we've made with temptation. We renounce it in the name of Jesus and we call ourselves to a higher standard. Holy Spirit,

Meet us in the area of our deficiency and our brokenness and give us strength and courage to lean into healing. Thank you, God, for what we get to do through this podcast. May we never forget the privilege it is to be in community with one another, to have tough conversations and to see your presence and your glory shining through it all. In Jesus name I pray. Amen.