Seasons of Sisterhood w/ Tommye and Yvette Williams
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can't bless who you pretend to be or who you compare yourself to he can only bless you and the lane that was created for you I feel that for somebody you don't need no edge entity you need boundaries what I don't need your likes I don't need your validation all I need is a God fighting for me that says all things all things all things Chad

Have you ever had a top tier experience and you know for sure that like nothing could ever surpass this, like nothing's going to be better than this? That's kind of how I'm beginning to feel about June's podcast episodes. Like I'm feeling

feeling like we did this thing. Okay, each week is getting better and better. I promise you. This week, I get to introduce you to more of my family, specifically my mother in love, Tommy, and her sister Yvette, the generational wisdom that we're about to receive. Listen,

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I'm feeling very special because I don't think we've ever had a conversation like this before and I'm excited about it.

All right. Me too. Yeah, I don't think we have. Okay, so mom and Aunt Yvette, I have a question for you as it relates to sisterhood, especially like revolutionary sisterhood. I am wondering if each of you can share a memory of the other one doing something that was like revolutionary for herself, maybe it was outside of her

comfort zone or revolutionary for your family? Like, I just want to hear how each of you have surprised each other in different seasons of your life. Wow. You want to go first? I know what I'm thinking. Okay. So, um, when Tommy left home, um, to go to UCLA, um, it was, um,

you know, she moved into the dorms. So we were all kind of sad that she was no longer in the household. And Tommy was always very quiet. Um, at least that's how I perceive you is very quiet. And when she got to UCLA, um, she became involved with, uh, the black Panther movement and, um,

You know, just kind of to me, it was maybe it's who she really was, but she just got out there working hard for the people and for justice. And she put herself at risk in order to help the people in the community.

And so for me, that was outside of how I perceived her because she was always quiet. And I didn't see her as that revolutionary to get out there and fight for the people in such a bold way. I could see it happening in a more quiet way and a more behind the scenes way. So that was something that was surprising to me. But I was very, very...

very proud of her for that strength and the courage to do that. So that's amazing. I haven't done anything anywhere near as revolutionary as that. Mom, before you answer, I wonder, was that a part of like what was always in you or did something happen at UCLA that made you change who you were? Well, what was always in me was a compassion and caring about the underdog that's been with me all of my life. So when I got pregnant,

you know, out of high school. That was just an avenue. It offered an avenue for me to explore that, but that's always been a part of me. So what really kind of got me started was UCLA. They had this tutorial program where they would go out to Watts and tutor the kids, and that just got me right there. And so, yeah.

It's always been in me. So it just offered me an opportunity to express that. Okay. Makes sense. Okay. Now it's your turn. Anivet, what has Anivet done that has surprised you that was revolutionary for her? Well, you know, um,

I'm seven years older than Yvette. And so, you know, she used to be in the house. So, you know, she was the youngest daughter and she used to cut up and be a terror. Oh, now I know where Ella got it from. Things are making sense already and we just started. Yeah.

Yeah, so she would terrorize and she would have a hot temper and, you know, things didn't go our way. She was going to smash a window or a door. But in terms of being revolutionary, it's in a quiet way. But just what she emulates and the example and the standard that she sets for all of us is just amazing. She, you know, we both...

We've decided in the family, like 24-7, we would be with my mom. Someone would be there. But Yvette is the one that just exemplifies such grace and patience and love. So to me, that's revolutionary. The rest of us, you know, we do it. But she is the one that exemplifies grace and love. And if you could contrast that to when she was a little one and terrorizing everyone and

I had a little temper there. Yes. Okay. I'm taking notes because now I'm drawing some connections here to some things I'm seeing at home. You know, one of the things that you both mentioned is really how over time you

the other one changed in some way, some phase, some capacity. And one of the things that I hear a lot from sisters who are maybe in my age range or maybe they're just on the cusp of adulthood is that they often feel like their sibling, their sister in particular, may not give them room to grow. Like you only see me as your little baby sister, but I'm a woman now.

or you've only seen me this way. How did you all go about introducing the evolved version of yourselves to your siblings? And was that difficult or did it always just kind of flow? And, you know, and Yvette and I may have different perspectives because actually once I graduated from high school, I was kind of out. I didn't actually go back home to live at home. So she may have a different perspective, but, um,

So maybe I'll have her answer that first. And yeah. Yeah. Because when Tommy left home, I think I must've, I probably was 11. Cause you were 17 when you started UCLA. 18. 18. So I was 11 years old. So when Tommy came back, she was an adult and I was already adult and adult. So I,

I think it just kind of naturally evolved where we both came back together as adults. And we'd see each other over the years, but we didn't have that every day or several days a week contact until we were both adults. So I think we just automatically...

Depended on each other as sisters, as friends and as adults. It just kind of happened naturally. But I don't think we had any growing pains in that area or anything.

Where one of us, you know, maybe Tommy as the older sister was treating me as a child or as a little sister that she had to, you know, make sure I was doing things appropriately. We just kind of saw each other as adults and didn't have any difficulty transitioning. Hmm.

At least not in my mind. No, I may have missed something. No, there was no there was no difficulty. Like you said, I was I was where I was up in Oakland after, you know, I was only at UCLA for just about a year. And then after that, I was up in Oakland for probably seven or eight years. But yeah.

Yvette, you know, and our other sister Shirley had passed away. It had always just been a, I guess, a respect and just honoring who the other one was. So things just naturally evolved. It wasn't like, oh, wow, now you're an adult. It was just like a natural progression. And, you know, I'm amazed. So even like now, you know, a lot of times I'll go to Yvette. She's my go-to person. She's kind of like my sounding board and things. So it's never been...

this thing where, oh, you were a little one and you don't know, or, you know, it's never been like that. It was just a natural, just, I think just honoring and respecting who we were. Yeah. That's so interesting. So you guys, I didn't, obviously I didn't know you were seven years apart and

And, you know, Ella and Kenzie are about seven years apart. So I see the distance in age and yet the connection that they have forged. When, mom, when you moved to Oakland and then came back and

you know, were connected with your family again, did like Anivet, did she automatically become like your sounding board? How did you learn to trust one another even into the adult season of your life where like you don't have to share like you're an adult, you've got your own business, like you don't have to share. Was there an experience that happened that made you say, you know what, I'm going to open up to my sister about this? And Anivet, I want to hear your answer as well. Like at what

point do you make a decision to not just be sisters by blood but like this is my friend and i can trust her with my heart yeah it's um i think with me in terms of yvette and i'm trying to think if there was anything in particular it was more just um knowing her heart knowing who she was um

Just like when I moved back to L.A. and then for a while we were all living in close proximity. My grandmother had...

property all probably, I think three, maybe two or three, a duplex or a triplex. So all on the same property. And so just getting to spend time with her and just her maturity level, her wisdom, even being seven years younger, I just knew that I could trust her, you know, and I do trust her with, with my heart, with everything. So I think it was just,

And like I said, I don't think it was any one thing at all. It was just just being around her and just knowing that just knowing her heart, knowing who she was. I just knew that I could trust her. And that's the same with me.

When Tommy and Trey moved here back to L.A., they were in my grandmother's front duplex. And I think I was in the back house at that time. And or had just. Oh, no, I was actually living in Long Beach before I moved back. And then just interacting every day and the respect I already had for her, for everything she had done for the community and for the family. And then.

Just interacting almost on a daily basis as a family made a big difference. And I think we never had a time in our lives where we clashed. We just never had that.

I did have that with my other sister, maybe because we were closer in age. But, you know, we kind of had those little growing pains where we, you know, we'd clash and she'd try to tell me what to do and I would be resistant. But I never had that with Ami because of the age difference and her leaving the house. But I just trusted her and just...

everything she was doing, everything she believed in.

just led me to know that I could trust her. And it was just not only as a sister, but as a friend, I lived up to her tremendously. And I'd actually spent a lot of time worrying about her because of, you know, I really did. Yeah. With a lot of the stuff that was going on with any of the revolutionaries during a period of time. So I was

relieved when she came back and she was close to all of the family. So, yeah, we just never had those sister clashes that a lot of sisters have. So, yeah.

Yeah. Okay. So I need that kind of alluded to it, but, but mom, do you want to talk about your experience being a revolutionary and how that may have changed who you were or how it changed who you were? Cause you had, you know, an experience that I know I've, I've heard about you in documentaries at, you know, um, but I don't know if you want to give it words yourself. Well, um,

Yeah, that was quite a chapter in my life. I would say from 1969 to 79. 69 was when I first started college and that year began very traumatically for me. I mean, I'll just share, just be very candid. I was 19. I had just turned 19 and I got very much involved with the Black Student Union there at UCLA and I was going to the meetings and that's kind of how I got involved

um, introduced to the party because they had members of the Black Panther Party, as well as another organization, a cultural organization called us that would both be participants in the, excuse me, the Black Student Union meetings. And so I would go, but anyway, there was an event that happened. And when I say an event, it was a tragic event, um, that happened in January of 69, that I was a witness to very traumatic, um,

gunshots fired, people died. And so that's how my 19th year started culminating in December of that same year. And, um, I was, um, one of the people that was a part of what they call the, um, December 8th police shootout. So it was, uh, then when I was 19, that was a crazy wild year for me, but, um,

I think it was a transformative year for me in so many ways. I just felt that at that time, I didn't know how much longer I had to live. My mindset was, you know, I'm going to do this, but I don't know that I'll have much of a future, but that just, I guess that lit something in me just knowing that I did want my life to make a difference. And so whatever that would look like, so be it. So yeah,

Yeah. And I think that's part of where that tremendous respect comes from that. And that you still to this day are always giving of yourself. And in that situation, your life was on the line and you knew it, but you still wanted to help. You wanted the kids in the community to learn and kids that were hungry to be fed and to

you were willing to sacrifice everything for it so that, um,

Just that respect of knowing someone who's willing to give their all for people that not only you love and know, but people that are complete strangers. So there's just a tremendous amount of respect. And I remember that day that she's talking about December 8th. It's like forever etched in my mind because I remember sitting at home and with my other siblings and we were all

just petrified because one of the local radio stations was airing all the coverage. And I think Angela Davis was out there and actually spoke to our mom, but you could hear the gunfire going into the building. And we knowing that Tommy was in that building was we were just petrified. And so when, you know, she came out,

injured, but okay. I mean, it was such a relief and really, I guess, confirmation that there was just so much more for you to do. And it's just, like I said, a tremendous amount of respect. It's probably deeper than anybody wanted to go, but... No, this is where we like it. We like it this deep. We like it this deep. Yeah, so, yeah, that was a crazy period, though, but...

I think all of that solidified just the connection and the love and concern for one another.

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It's, you know, difficult to really put into words how deep, you know, the connection is that you all share. And I'm just from the outside looking in. But I hear Tere's stories about growing up and how pivotal, you know, each of you, obviously you, mom, in raising him. But you two, Aunty Vet and Aunty Shirley, and like taking care of him as well. And the definition of womanhood and the respect that he has for women. Yeah.

centering around this sisterhood unit that existed amongst the three of you. And I know that Aunt Shirley passed away. I'm wondering, in her passing, did that change anything about the way that you all cherish one another? Did it become that much more intense? And do you still get glimpses of Aunt Shirley in the other sister? Yeah.

Well, that's a good question. So much happened in terms of when Shirley got sick and, you know, I had just retired and I'm so thankful that I retired when I did because it was been a quality time with her, which I didn't have before. And just speaking of her, we sometimes had our clashes as well. Yeah.

So that provided an opportunity just to get to know her better. But, you know, through it, Yvette and I, I think just because we shared something, a tremendous loss. And so I think that was the most traumatic experience that we've gone through together from my perspective anyway. And so we became closer as a result of that. And yeah.

That's so interesting. I think that, you know,

In life, we think about our parents transitioning, but you very rarely think of this idea of losing a sibling, you know, because they're just like, you know, they've been a part of your life forever. And the idea of confronting that, I don't think I ever really thought about it heavily until I saw you all going through the experience of, you know, Aunt Shirley receiving her wings. How does...

losing a sibling change who you are as a sibling? I think for me, there are a lot of things you just take for granted that, you know, you're always going to be together and you just take a lot of things for granted. And I think with my sister being surely becoming ill and going through that process, it made me

realize that, you know, nothing is promised and you have to really cherish and acknowledge everyone in your life that you love and to not take anything for granted. So I think it made me value our relationship more and to

say and be the things you want to be because of what my sister surely there are some things I wish I had said that I didn't say um partly because I didn't want to acknowledge that she was going to pass so for me it was you know let me be positive and um

not go down that road we're talking about her not being here and I think she realized she believed that she wasn't going to make it through that process

I think we were all holding out hope. So I didn't really want to acknowledge that. So I think it just made me realize that whatever is on your heart, you need to speak whatever is on your heart. If it's uncomfortable, that's okay. It's just uncomfortable that you need to do that. So I think it's just a greater appreciation and an acknowledgement that

You need to take the time to spend with each other to not be afraid to say what you need to say and then just cherish the time you have. Yeah. And I think it's also for me just really just being more accepting, understanding, because sometimes, you know, we can get on each other's nerves sometimes. But with that process is really just more of understanding.

acceptance and extending grace to others you know because I know sometimes I'm the you know first born and you know sometimes you know we can be a bit much so I just learned for me to just really be more accepting and kind of chill a little bit also just from you know yeah and just uh

really just trust God with everything and not try to be the one to fix everything, but just really kind of trust God. So I learned that just, yeah, I'm still learning. I'm a work in progress, you know? Yeah. And we all have different ways of doing things sometimes that, yeah. Yeah. I know I get on her nerves sometimes. Yeah.

Okay, I want to hear about it. What does Aunt Yvette do that gets on your nerves? And we don't want to hear that, oh, everything's fine and we love each other. I want to know, as sisters, you guys have been in the sisterhood game for a long time now. And obviously, if you're watching, just so you know, your sister's going to get on your nerves for a long time. These are notes to take. What do you guys do that gets on the other one's nerves? Let me see. Um...

I can say, and it's okay. She, my sister, she is so super nice. And sometimes, you know, you know, I'm just saying too much. Yeah. That's too much. And so she just super nice. And sometimes it's just like, where do you want to, where do you want to get something to eat from? And I, you know, she's always yielding all the time to someone else. It doesn't matter what. And sometimes I just want to say just, just,

you know, just say where you want to just say it. She's so kind. She yields to everyone. I love this. Yeah. She thinks I do too much. I can tell when she's like, really? You're going to do that or let somebody else do that. So, yeah. And I know I get on her nerves. So, I bet. Is that true? We don't. Yeah.

On occasion, I think it's, I think maybe when, when she thinks I do too much. So I think sometimes for me,

If like in my mom's house and my brother lives here, younger brother, and if I just see something that needs to be done, I just will do it. You know, so if it's trash day and maybe my brother's sleeping, the trash can needs to go out, I'll just do it. Or the light went out, I'll just do it. And so sometimes she thinks I need to let others do some of those things, but I'm just the type where,

If I see it, I just want to get it done and out of the way. So, yeah. So, okay. I need that. You reminded me of what I experienced with Ella, but now mom, you're reminding me of Trey because he is the don't do too much King. Like there you can do, you can do stuff and be nice, but like let someone else do some other things as well. That's right. That is funny to me. Say no. Say no. Yes. I'm going to start working on it.

I need that. How did seeing mom become a mom change

change or did it change like how you saw her, like seeing her in this new stage, this new role? And she's still parenting. Like it's not like she became a mom. She raised her kids and she's done. And now she's like the grandmother, like creme de la creme queen grandmother. Is it interesting to see her? Oh, no. Better question. Is grandma different with her grandkids than she was when raising Trey? Let me see. Yeah.

I see a lot of similarities in terms of wanting to provide different experiences, like the little trips and things. I see the similarities there. I don't know, maybe a little more...

Patience with the grandkids. Not that you were impatient. That's a good point. Yeah. But look, we were all there in the mix. But yeah, but she just that's the only thing I think of and not even a major difference. I think once

You have the grandkids, I think, because they have their own parents, you know, to take care of all the little stuff. You can kind of have a little different relationship there, but that would be about the only thing I could think of. But you always sacrifice everything for Tere. Yeah.

And did everything you could, like the birthday parties and the trips to San Diego. That started with Trey. Wow. And they would just go out to, what was it, the Bahia Hotel and stuff. And yeah, that's the only thing I can think of.

And not even in a major way. Well, you know, the thing about patience, that's because raising Trey was not easy at all. And there were times when I wasn't patient, but I lost my patience. So I don't know if you witnessed any of that, but I have my days and my moments for sure when I had no patience or, you know, I was at the end of my rope many days like that. So, yeah. Yeah.

I heard a story about you and a wall with Trey one time. I still have. Yes. My kids, they have not seen that. I don't think I heard the wall story. Yeah.

I was so angry and upset that I hit the wall versus hitting him. Oh, okay. Yeah. See, now we're similar there because I don't know if you remember, but my sister Shirley had angered me one time and I probably was...

or 13. And we used to have this croquet set, you know, the little hard croquet balls. So she made me so angry. I picked up a croquet ball and threw it at her and she put up the sheet. It missed her, but it hit the wall. And there was an indentation in the wall from that croquet ball. It

it's probably still there. I mean, we move, but let me tell you, we have that in common there. A lot of things are making sense. Yeah. You were out of the house. A lot of things. Cause Ella is violent towards McKenzie and a lot of things are beginning to make sense. I'm going to play her this podcast and let her know it's in your blood. It's just in your blood.

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Have a question. I wonder is there anything about? Either of you that you feel like you see but that like your sibling doesn't see so like for me I think like with my sister core like I think to myself like Cora is in my opinion So much stronger

in spirit than she is in personality. And her personality is obviously very strong, but I don't think, I think she underestimates just how strong she is in spirit and her ability to overcome things that are challenging. Do you see a hidden strength in your sister that you don't think she has discovered yet? Hmm.

Yeah, I think Yvette is amazing. And I don't think that she knows the, what's the word? I don't think she knows how powerful she is. She's amazing. And the wisdom that she has, the insight, understanding, et cetera. I don't think she realizes the depth, the magnitude of that. Yeah, she yields a lot to others, but yeah, the...

Yeah. I don't think she realized like those things that are hidden in her that are so powerful, but she's, um, she's dynamite, you know, and I don't think she realizes that. Well, you're too kind. Thank you. I just always see myself as going with the flow, not sweating it, but, um, with Tommy, something hidden. I think, I think, you know, um,

how strong you are, and something that you don't know about yourself. I think you're more in tune with yourself probably than I am. I think you maybe just have a greater self-awareness, but I think you know how powerful you are and

how powerful you can be, um, through the Lord. I think your spirituality is a lot. Um, I think maybe you manifest it, um, much more than I actually do, but I can't really think of anything that you're not aware of about yourself. Um,

Well, that's interesting that you're saying that because I'm on a journey of becoming more aware of myself, especially with these. Yeah, I'm on a journey of that, especially since the pandemic and then the teachings that Therese had. I've just been I've been on this journey of becoming more self-aware and just self.

Like I said, I'm a work in progress. You know, for sure. We all are. Yeah. I have to ask since you brought it up with Trey and his teaching, what was it like for the two of you to see Trey go from being the child that got the wall punched to being someone whose ministry you now listen to and is allowing to guide your own spirituality? It's just...

It's amazing, mind-blowing, all of these things. I glean from his messages. I glean from his wisdom and the brilliance of his mind and how profound he is and just the richness of what he brings. It's amazing to me. Yeah, just his understanding. I remember even as a little kid, he just...

was above his age group in terms of just all of the skills. I remember one day we were driving down the street and he had to be

Three, I don't know if he was closer to four, but he was definitely three. And I remember we were just driving and he was in the backseat and he was saying these words. And I was like, what is he doing? What is he saying? Because the words weren't making any sense. And then I realized that as we pass billboards,

he was reading the billboards. So, and I was shocked that he was reading at that level at such an early age. And that's the way he would ask questions as a kid that, that weren't questions that you'd normally expect a child to ask. I see that in Ella too, watching her, you know, and yeah,

So watching him grow as that little boy and then, you know, getting into the challenging phase and then just growing spiritually and just his understanding of the Bible. And I think I was saying this the other day. I've been to a number of churches. I've heard a number of different pastors and pastors.

There's that are, you know, twice his age or much older than him that just did not have that understanding and the ability to.

interpret the words of the Bible in a way that you could really relate to and that would really resonate with you. It was just something special from the early days when he first got into the ministry and watching that evolution from that little boy to where he is now. And I was always amazed that, you know, Tommy said, I was just learning so much from him that

I wasn't learning before. And then just the, just those pearls of wisdom to live by and the spiritual growth. And, you know, I'm still growing, but just to me, it's just been amazing. But I saw those flashes early on, you know, and then he just came into his own. So it's, it's wonderful to see that it's just amazing.

That's been, um, one of the real blessings in my life has been to see that process and just how he just helps people and gives and pours and, um,

That's just amazing to me. Mom, you look so proud over there. He's a spunky little critter. He used to threaten us if you he would go to daycare during the summers when he stayed with us. And the deal was you had to give him you had to stop at McDonald's or Burger King and get cheeseburger fries or a shake.

And I remember one time my sister didn't have my sister. Shirley didn't have that much cash. And he was like, no, I have to have my, you know, so he pulled over and was digging, looking under the seats so that she could buy him his hamburger, cheeseburger, fries and shake. It was hysterical. And if he didn't get it.

he was going to have a holy little fit that would make you want to stop, pull over and ask somebody for some money. So, yeah.

And look at my child. You see, when Ella be cutting up and I be looking at him for support and he don't have no support. Now I know why he feels convicted. He can't show up because he sees himself. And you know what? This podcast has blessed me if it has not blessed anyone else, because that is full circle for me. He's going to hear about this later. I

I have a question about sisters in relationships, right? So like seeing your sister, whether it's a friendship or a romantic relationship and something that doesn't necessarily feel like suitable for her. It's not what you would choose or what you would want for her. How do you do like, can you guys still stay close and connect? Have you stayed close and connected in those seasons or did you kind of have to like pull apart?

so that you could just like let her do her thing without trying to like interrupt what was going on in her life. How do you navigate those seasons where your sister's doing something that you don't agree with? It's not necessarily harmful. It's just not what you would choose for her while still maintaining the connection. Well, for me, it would always be hard if I, if I see something, I'm going to say something that's kind of me and, uh,

Yeah, so there hasn't been a whole lot really that, you know, I've seen that. I said, oh, well, I think she's going down the wrong path or I don't necessarily agree with it. Hasn't been a whole lot of that. But, you know, for me, if I see something, I am going to say something. If the Lord really kind of puts it on my heart, then I just have to, you know,

voice my opinion but that does not um change anything in terms of you know my love uh our closeness anything like that but that's part of my makeup so yeah yeah and I can't really think of anything um that I've seen you do um is a concern like that um yeah I really can't think of anything um

If it would be anything, it would be maybe if you're not feeling well, not really, you know, letting maybe things go on a little bit long without. And I don't even know how to say that sometimes, like what if you get headaches or something and I'm like, well, maybe you should go to the doctor, but you want to wait it out. It'd be something along those lines, but not anything serious.

That's really major or something where I'm like, oh, God, stop. You can't do that or that's wrong. Nothing along those lines.

You know what I admire about what you both said is that you all have found a way to not make your opinion law for someone else's actions. And I think especially in sibling dynamics, whether you're older or younger, there are moments where you can see maybe something differently than your sibling does. And in that moment, it can be very interesting to say, it can be very tempting rather to say, you know what? I know this is right. I know that this is what you should be doing.

And that opinion can become law for that person. But it's important to remember that relationships are not ownership. And just because you have an opinion doesn't mean that that person has to follow by that rule. And if they don't follow by that rule, they shouldn't lose you as a result of not. And they're not harming you. You just don't agree with it. Then I think that there is an opportunity to grow in love and allow that person to have space to be whoever they are in that season. Yeah.

Yeah. That totally makes sense. Yeah. It seems like you guys have that mastered. Yeah.

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We're going to answer an advice question together, and I cannot wait to hear your wisdom. It says, Hi, Pastor Sarah. My question is simple. How do I evolve? Listening to your podcast has opened my eyes to a lot of things I've never even thought about, specifically about being a woman. Things such as showing up for myself, doing the work. Well, how do I do that? How do I make the conscious decision to show up for myself or to do the work?

or evolve into a woman I've never seen or have no idea how to be. I'm 27 years old, and my life is not the way I want it to be. The transition from child to adult is surreal and scary. I have invited Christ into my life, but wonder if I need to do more. I want to get to the next level. When did you make the decision to begin your healing process? Bottom line, I want to grow, but get in my own way. What can I do to stop getting in my own way?

I'm gonna let you guys answer first. Goodness. Okay. Yeah, that's loaded. There's a lot there, but I'm so glad that she asked the question. So that's, that's the first thing, you know, asking the question and, you know, even at my age, just really being open, honest, honest,

First of all, I'd say with my I'm talking in terms of myself, being open and honest with myself, acknowledging, acknowledging feelings, acknowledging areas where, you know, perhaps in my past things that have that I've kind of just like pushed under and, you know, not really given voice or thought.

And so just really kind of addressing those issues. So I think her first step is just great, asking the question and then now asking the question of herself. Lord, you made me, you formed me. What did you have in mind when you thought of me? Just really, I think the honesty and truthfulness is the first start, being truthful and honest with yourself and then going forward with that and just really not being afraid to

Let me take that back. Being okay to say, Lord, I'm afraid. These are some of the fears that I have. And just being open and honest and then just seeing where that path takes you. So I think the openness and Sarah, you, I think are...

you major in that just being open and vulnerable and sharing. And I think that's the first step and, you know, it's a journey, you know, it's a journey and, you know, step by step by step. So, you know, really taking one step at a time, but just starting from a place of honesty with yourself. Yeah. And I think it, it is a process and just acknowledging that, um,

In life, you are going to evolve. That's why I love Women Evolve because we're evolving. And particularly at that age, there's so much more to learn and there's so much more growth out there. So I think to acknowledge that you don't have all the answers and that you're going through this process and to take the time, that quiet time to really learn

listen to yourself and anything that God's going to pour into you, but just take the time to acknowledge, okay, I'm going to grow. I'm going to learn. Everything is not going to be perfect. There are going to be ups. There are going to be downs. There are going to be disappointments and joyous occasions and to acknowledge that early on so that when you

hit those different phases that you know that's just part of what you go through to grow and to learn. And you're not going to learn everything, all the strength you have, unless you have some of those challenges. So I think that to give yourself permission to be...

to be afraid of what's ahead because you don't exactly know what's ahead. And that's okay because we've, I think any of us, especially when you hit our ages, we can tell you that we were afraid at that age and we weren't sure what life had in store for us at that age. And we weren't sure if we were equipped for what life had in store for us so that it's okay to feel all those things, but you have to just keep

As Tommy said, you need to be open. You need to surround yourself with people that are going to uplift you. And sometimes we can get caught up in relationships with people just because they've been part of our lives for a long time, a childhood friend. And so you have to be careful who you surround yourself with and are open

a helping in this process or are they doing something that is making you not feel so good about yourself? So I think it's just taking the time to learn yourself.

about yourself and what you want and to move forward even if you're feeling a little fearful. We've been down that path and still on the path. As Tommy said, it's a journey that doesn't end until we leave this earth. So,

I love that. I hear both. I hear you all saying that she needs to be both honest and patient, honest about where she is and how she's feeling and also patient as she stretches herself to to grow and evolve. I feel like when a woman begins to get unsettled in her identity, unsettled in her spirit, that it's a sign that she's ready for growth.

And what's frustrating is that we don't know where we want to grow or how we want to grow. And I believe that that's an incredible opportunity for you to really sit in stillness and say, what is it that I'm longing for? Is it freedom? Is it confidence? Is it courage?

and to really pinpoint exactly what it is that you are looking for, and then say, "How can this show up in my life today? What does that courage look like for me in my life and my roles and responsibilities? What does confidence look like?" And then begin to make the choices and decisions that lead you towards that vision. I hear so often so many women are striving to become something they've never seen before.

But just because you haven't seen it, it doesn't mean that you can't describe it. God is trying to show you something in that unsettling. And I dare you to sit down and to write it down. What is it that you're trying to show me about myself? I can feel it in my spirit. I can feel it in my soul. And you can give it a vision with your words. And once you give it a vision with your words, you can embody it with your actions.

And so that's part of the way that we become something we've never seen before is we find a place of honesty, the place of patience, and then the place of courage to dare to write down what it is we're reaching for and then get up and stretch and do it. I think that's the way that we get it done. I've loved this conversation so much. Before I go, though, I want to ask each of you to define sisterhood in your own words. Well, I think it's...

a friend for life, having someone you can depend on, um, who is going to support you and just be there no matter what. So, um, for me, it's that friendship, the bond and it's the support. And, um,

I think for us, we would have been friends had we not had the biological connection. Yeah, I agree with what Yvette said. And sisterhood for me also means that person, I can trust that person. So it's trust and loyalty and trust.

Yeah, friendship, you know, I would be her friend, like you said, even if she weren't my sister, but just really that trustworthiness, loyalty, can be honest with each other. And even in the honesty that doesn't, we don't have to worry about being honest that the relationship would be damaged or harmed. So I think loyalty, honesty, trustworthiness, friendship, yeah.

Yeah, knowing whatever is said or done is coming from a place of love, not in any way trying to harm in any way. Knowing, you know, it may not be something you want to hear, but it's still coming from a place of love and that makes the difference. Yeah, it's just like when they say ride or die, you know. Yeah.

I love that you guys are sister goals and an inspiration to me. So I appreciate you so much for being open and honest and willing to have this conversation with me and the other members of the woman evolved delegation, because I know it's going to mend some sister relationships and it's going to give perspective for sister relationships. So thank you for your time and for your story.

Okay. And thank you. And I just want to say, you know, we were talking about Trey and all he's done, but I really have a tremendous amount of respect for you. And you are just so wise. You're like a 90 year old woman. I mean, you're just wise and how you put everything together and everything.

Just the wisdom that you have is incredible to me, especially in, you know, someone as young as you are. And I'm telling you, it just reminds me of a, like a much older woman who's lived and, you know, you're just, yeah. It's a blessing. You're just wise. It's amazing. Wise and courageous. Yeah. So, yeah.

Thank you. You're amazing. Oh, I love y'all. Thank you. That means a lot to me. I'm going to save this little clip and keep it in my phone for those moments where I don't feel so wise or courageous. But I love you guys. I'll see you Sunday. Okay. Love you, Sunday. Love you, too. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.

All right, listen. So like I try to not be the person who says, I told you so. But I kind of did warn you that we'd get blessed with wisdom. OK, let me tell you how encouraged I couldn't help it. I was just smiling the whole time. I don't know if it's because I was imagining court and myself at that. Like how are we going to be talking crazy to each other or just marveling at how pure and patient and kind and kind.

consistent sisterhood can be when two women choose to love above all. I want to hear your story. I want to be inspired by what's happening in your world. So delegation, bestie, niece, sis, I want to talk to you on this here podcast. Shoot your shot to be my next co-host. It's simple. Email podcast at womanevolved.com with a one to two minute video about why you should be my next co-host or

Or send me an advice question that you'd like for me to answer. Don't leave me on this podcast alone. All right. I will fight you. All right. Until next week. I'm a good lawyer and I want to win. I think I killed GT.

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Hello. From Wonder Media Network, I'm Jenny Kaplan, host of Womanica, a daily podcast that introduces you to the fascinating lives of women history has forgotten.

Who doesn't love a sports story? The rivalries, the feats of strength and stamina. But these tales go beyond the podium. There's the team table tennis champ, the ice skater who earned a medal and a medical degree, and the sprinter fighting for Aboriginal rights. Listen to Womanica on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.