cover of episode Heroism & Trump’s Cowardice (with Jeffrey Goldberg & Joyce Vance)

Heroism & Trump’s Cowardice (with Jeffrey Goldberg & Joyce Vance)

2024/9/10
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Preet Bharara
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Preet Bharara：许多高级官员明知特朗普的为人，却仍然选择为他工作，令人费解。 Jeffrey Goldberg：这些官员最初抱有特朗普上任后会变得更成熟、更专注的希望，也有一些人认同特朗普的部分政策立场。他们意识到，即使他们不为特朗普工作，特朗普仍然会是总统，而他们的缺席可能会导致灾难性的后果。为了防止特朗普做出鲁莽的决定，一些高级官员采取了“保姆”策略，确保至少有一人随时待在华盛顿附近。 Joyce Vance：那些在白宫附近“看护”特朗普的高级官员，为什么没有更早采取行动阻止特朗普？ Jeffrey Goldberg：在1月6日事件之前，五角大楼在保护和捍卫宪法方面发挥了关键作用，这与人们普遍认为的将军发动政变的印象相反。我们不知道这些官员在幕后做了多少事情，他们的不作为可能导致更糟糕的结果。约翰·凯利可能通过巧妙的策略阻止了一场潜在的核战争，他利用特朗普的虚荣心，劝说特朗普不要挑衅朝鲜，并促成美朝之间的对话。 Preet Bharara：特朗普的支持者是否相信特朗普贬低军人的言论，以及林赛·格雷厄姆对特朗普的支持令人费解。 Jeffrey Goldberg：林赛·格雷厄姆对特朗普的支持可能源于他对权力和地位的渴望，以及对被边缘化的恐惧。特朗普的支持者支持他的原因复杂，可能包括对民主党的反感、对特定政策的支持以及对身份认同的认同。共和党对特朗普的支持可能源于对人口结构变化的恐惧，以及对传统共和党价值观的认同。 Joyce Vance：特朗普的支持者可能出于多种原因支持他，包括对民主党的反感、对特定政策的支持以及对被剥夺权利的恐惧。特朗普的政治行为并非基于任何具体的政策立场，而是源于一种权威主义的个人崇拜。 Jeffrey Goldberg：特朗普在暗杀未遂事件中的反应，体现了他对自身安全的本能反应，而非真正的勇气或英勇。特朗普的行为更多的是出于自我保护和自我中心，而非真正的勇气。特朗普对受伤退伍军人的厌恶，以及他对死亡和受伤的恐惧，体现了他的懦弱。

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Preet Bharara and Joyce Vance speak with Jeffrey Goldberg, editor-in-chief of The Atlantic magazine, in front of a live audience at the Texas Tribune Festival in Austin, Texas. Goldberg discusses his new book, On Heroism: McCain, Milley, Mattis, and the Cowardice of Donald Trump, which includes his reporting on Republican leaders and top White House officials who stood up to Trump while he was president, as well as Trump’s controversial statements reportedly calling members of the military “suckers” and “losers.”

In a conversation exclusively for members of CAFE Insider, Goldberg speaks about the media’s approach to covering Trump and the presidential election, and what a second Trump term might look like. To listen to the full interview and get access to all of the exclusive Insider content, become a member at CAFE.com/insider). You can now try the membership for just $1 for one month. CAFE Insiders click HERE) to listen.

Stay Tuned in Brief is presented by CAFE) and the Vox Media Podcast Network. Please write to us with your thoughts and questions at [email protected], or leave a voicemail at 669-247-7338. This episode was recorded live at the 2024 Texas Tribune Festival in downtown Austin. For recaps from this year's recently concluded event and to stay updated on next year's program, visit TribFest.org.

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