The Truth Will Out (Season 1, Episode 16)
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Hi, Jennifer Samard. Hi, Patrick. Hi. I love you. I feel like I haven't seen you in days. I know. I'm so happy to be here. And I'm so happy that my baseball cap looks good on camera because I was worried it would cover my face. And I say this because every person knows that a baseball cap can really help you out when you're having a greasy hair day. Oh, or if you're having like a thinning hair day like happens to the men's sometimes. Yeah. When death becomes her starts back up, boy, you're going to see a lot of this baseball cap. Ha ha ha.

I really look forward to that. Okay, great. Cheesecakes, thanks for coming back for episode 16. I can't believe we're in episode 16 already. I know. Girls, tell the people what we do here at the Golden Girls Deep Dive Podcast. Okay, we recap variously, I might add, the episodes of the Golden Girls. We started at episode one. We're already up to episode 16. Wild. Yeah, we're going to go through the entire seven seasons. And then plus Golden Pal. What? We're going to the Gold Pal, the Golden Palace. Oh.

The G-Pow. Malice at the Palace. Malice at the Palace. That sounds like a boxing match at Madison Square Garden. But listen, not only do we do those delightful recaps I mentioned, we do little deep dives sprinkled throughout. We have a full-time researcher, Jess. We love you. And then we do a huge deep dive. Huge. Huge.

It can be huge, but we do a really detailed deep dive at the end of each episode based on something from the Golden Girls universe. And girl, you're doing the deep dive at the end of the episode today. Tell the Cheesies what you're doing. Well, I'm doing hair and makeup because my life is hair and makeup. So I told Patrick, it's like, girl, I'm doing hair and makeup. I got to tell you, this was previously recorded. I've already heard it and it is so...

So, so interesting. I know. I couldn't agree more. Think about the quaffs that they had to deal with with those ladies. And the Bea Arthur goes on a real hair journey in this series. Well, we talk about that. Don't give away my deep dive. All right, girls. Shall we get into the episode today? Yes. I love the title of this episode because it actually is one of my favorite quotes in real life. Oh, interesting. I don't like it because I don't like how punny they try to get. Oh, I see what you're saying. You know what I mean? I just like the phrase, I think, is the best.

But anyway, the name of this episode is The Truth Will Out. Yeah. And I see your point because a will, ladies and gentlemen, really factors into the storyline. Poor Rose. I know. She's trying to get her end of life papers in order, everybody. Written by Susan Beavers, directed by Terry Hughes. Original air date, January 18th, 1986.

And so, you know, we like to talk about fun things that were happening at that time. I've got one for you, Patrick. Tell me everything. All right. So on the Billboard chart at that time, ranked number three was Eddie Murphy's song, Party All the Time. Eddie Murphy had a song? No, I do not remember this. It actually made it all the way up to number two, where it lasted for three weeks. Oh, my goodness. He never passed Lionel Richie's Say You, Say Me. But Party All the Time, I remember this. It was like, my girl wants to party all the time, party all the time.

That's Eddie Murphy? Yes, yes. But here's the interesting factoid about it. Okay. He ran into Richard Pryor, the comedian, for those of you who don't know. Of course. And he said, I'm doing an album. And Pryor offered Eddie $100,000 as a bet that Eddie wouldn't be able to do a purely musical album without jokes.

Come on, Eddie Murphy can do anything. Right. So he did. And on a 2023 appearance on Jimmy Kimmel Live, Eddie Murphy said that Pryor never paid him the money before he died in 2005. But nonetheless, it existed. It lives on. The single was recorded at Rick James' home studio. No way. The Rick James in Buffalo, New York. Oh, my goodness. And in addition to writing and producing the song, Rick James also provided backup vocals.

vocals. So you can find it on YouTube. Go give a listen. I know that song. That's why, you know why I never made it to number one? Because this was the era of That's What Friends Are For. I talked about this last week. And That's What Friends Are For, this week is the first week it's number one and it stayed number one forever and ever and ever. Because now we're into 1986. It was the number one, number one song of 1986. Well, go check it out. And he did it. Wild. He did it. And he made it all the way up to number two, if not number one. You know what, Eddie Murphy, you get it. You know what I mean? Like, you get it.

All right, Cheesecakes. So we are getting into the episode. And I said normally we get the establishing shot of the outside of the house like straight on. Yeah, yeah. Or from the driveway. This is the first time we're getting a sort of catty corner. Yeah. And it threw me off. I was like, where are we? Are you okay? I'm okay now, but I'll tell you when it— Do you need a glass of water? Or maybe like fewer glasses of bourbon while I'm watching this late at night. But like when we come back from the commercial halfway through, we get the same establishing shot. And again, it like threw me off my balance. Yeah.

I definitely would like to talk about what Dorothy's wearing, if you don't mind. Please. We're in the kitchen. I have so many notes on this. It should be noted that Rose is baking and dressed for the day. And so Dorothy comes in. I don't want to steal any of your thunder, but I legitimately cannot decide if she's wearing clothes for the day or if she's wearing pajamas. I can't tell. I know. Well, Rose, she's wearing Big Yella. Remember we called that apron Big Yella? Yeah.

And she's wearing big yellow over a yellow dress. She's baking some kind of a roulade, which we'll learn more about in a moment. But I have Dot Enters wearing a robe over a nightgown. But the robe looks like a pen and ink drawing. Yes. That's why I was like, is it a

it a suit for the day i really can't tell go look up pen and ink drawings that's what it looks like it just looks like this fake cartoon outline the piping yeah i'm not kidding it doesn't look bad it's actually nice but it doesn't look real in some way but there's also so much material like the thing that she's wearing under the over thing and the over thing is so long and also it's confusing because she walks into the room and she's in a great mood morning oh here taste this

What is it? Oh, it's my special maple syrup, honey brown sugar, molasses rice krispies log. How practical. A snack you can panel your den with.

Good morning. Like, I watched it so many times because Dot is never, she's not a morning person. She's rarely in that good mood. Yeah, she walks in, good morning. You know, what do I always say? Uncharacteristically angry. Totally. She's, you know, characteristically joyful now. It's like, is she drunk? Like, she was in such a, she was very happy to be entering the kitchen. Rose is tasting her roulade. Yes. And Rose says, it's her special maple syrup, honey, brown sugar, molasses, rice, crispy log.

Can I tell you, I tried to do a deep dive on Rice Krispie Treats here. Okay. Even though that's not what Rose is making. Yeah. It made me feel like she's using Rice Krispies in this sweet treat that she's making. I started, there's a whole article about where they come from and it was so boring. I started to write it. I was like, who cares? Oh my God. Cheesecakes. Sometimes,

The deep dives are not worth it. Wait, the Rice Krispie Treats was boring? The history of the Rice Krispie Treats was... I refuse to believe it. It is the most delicious snack in the world. I know, I was just eating one yesterday. But the history of how they came to be, not that fun. Not that interesting. Because a lot of it is hotly debated. Oh, really? So I just was like, you know what? This is... I started thinking... It is a Golden Girls podcast, after all. You're like, how deep are we going, right? My dear, dear friend Mike Jensen listens to this. And he goes, so far, you guys are doing a good job of knowing when to get back to the episode. I mean...

I worry about that. I worry about that. You know, here's the thing. We're going to fail. Yeah, it's true. And this is a good time to say this, too. Yeah. You know, sometimes people are they're going to like episodes that we don't like. That's true. That's great. Anyway, she lists all of these sickly sweet ingredients. And Dorothy has a hilarious comeback. She says, how practical a snack you can panel your den with. I know.

And Dorothy does not like it. This is one of those Lindstrom delicacies that we're going to learn about throughout the series. Dorothy thinks it's disgusting. She regrets the moment she put it in her mouth. Yeah, yeah. Too sweet. She's making it, we learn, because it's Kirsten's favorite. Who's Kirsten, my love? Kirsten is Rose's daughter. Yes. And her granddaughter is coming, too. Yeah, they're coming to visit for the week. And I love that they're talking about

the plans for the week. Dorothy has such a great moment here. I know. So good. Rose goes, Oh, my granddaughter's never been to Florida before, so I thought I'd take them to Sea World and Gator World and Reptile World and Parrot Village. What? The parrots don't get a world? This is outrageous.

What? The parents don't get a world? So the way that Dorothy says what is with the same enthusiasm that she said good morning. She goes, what? I know. I have here funny. I said, okay, beavers. Ha ha.

Beavers is the last name. The Beef. Of the writer. You're right, The Beef. She did it. Just feels like Bea Arthur came to play that week. You know what I mean? I don't know. She's in a good mood. She's in a good mood. So Blanche enters next. She's wearing her regular blue satin ensemble. She looks sexy as hell. She always does. Always. She's reading a newspaper. And this is where we introduce the Bea storyline. Yes. And we also learn that Blanche is a true crime girly. I knew that I loved her. I always knew that I loved her. But Blanche is a true crime girly. Just like me. Dorothy!

Dorothy, just look at this man. He is obviously guilty of sin. I don't even know why they're bothering with a trial. What trial? Oh, the Duncan Osgood trial. You know, that big society murder over in Palm Beach. What makes you so sure he's guilty? His wife was found at the bottom of their private lake clutching his dickie in her hand. Well, that would certainly place him at the scene of the crime.

And I just said, we need more of this from Blanche. Yeah. I want this to be, it isn't, but I want it to be sprinkled throughout the series. The whole series. Yeah, that she, like, loves a murder mystery. Oh, I love that. We do see her reading books all the time. Like, I'd love to know that they're, like, Agatha Christie novels or whatever. I bet they're different kind of books than, like, because Dorothy's always reading. She reads in this episode. Joyce Kearns Goodwin, like, always. We talk about it. The edges of the paper are

They're colored or they're foiled. They're serious books. Very, very serious books. So Blanche is obsessed with this like trial, this murder trial that's happening over in Palm Beach. Right. And so like she's explaining the setup to Dorothy. She's explaining like what's going on. Right. I had to look up what a dickie was. I thought a dickie was

You don't know? I thought it was like a rubber ducky or some sort of like... I wear a dickie at one point in Death Becomes Her. Will you explain exactly what it is? All right. It's this false sort of a turtleneck piece or a shirt piece that you wear around your collar under another piece of clothing, you know, but it's not a full shirt. It's not a full turtleneck. It's the kind of thing you could rip off a man when he's trying to murder you, is what you're saying. Exactly.

Exactly right. And you carry it all the way down to the bottom of that private lake. That's right. That's right. So Sophia enters. Sophia is wearing this bright coral bathrobe that matches the napkins from the dinner party episode. Remember all those coral napkins? I do. She's bundled up for Jesus. Sophia must be constantly freezing. Well, yeah. Which I feel like it.

is a good choice for the character because she's like an old, like a little old lady who weighs like 86 pounds. 80. 86. But I was like, look around this kitchen. Dorothy's wearing 15 layers. Yeah. Sophia's bundled up. I'm like, this show takes place in Juneau, Alaska in mid-December. Not Juneau, Alaska. Juneau, Alaska. Next week on Northern Exposure. Right.

But she's wearing a blood pressure cuff as well. And she just says like, look, I'm a ticking time bomb. 2.30 over 1.90. Stand back. I could blow at any minute. She's trying to say that she's too ill to be moved. Because if you remember, Rose's daughter and granddaughter are coming. So of course, Sophia draws the shortest straw and has to move out of her room to accommodate them and go sleep with Dorothy. And Dorothy's like, you're fine. You're staying with me. You always complain and we always get through it. And I'm like, yeah, in that full bed, we've been over this. But also, Patrick, can no one hit the couch?

How about like little Charlie, perhaps? I know. Like we put children at the kiddie table at Thanksgiving. 100%. There's no world I can think of. Or like, I'm sorry, maybe Rose can hit the couch. So I have so many things to say here because Rose will say at some point, like there's just nothing like having family stay with you so much better than a hotel. And I was like, who thinks

that? Who actually wants that? I would spend my own money to get that friend or that family member at that hotel. Wait, I'd be putting up, if you lived with me, I'd be putting up your mother at the hotel when she came to stay with us. You know what I mean? Like the only thing this house has going for it is the 15 bathrooms. Remember? We've learned.

over the course of so many episodes. I'm like, well, at least there's multiple, multiple bathrooms. I will say this, though. This is very first world problem we're talking because I remember very well hotels are expensive. Hotels are not for Rose, thinks Kirsten. We'll get to that in a minute. Rose is rolling in cash, according to Kirsten. But also, I was

Yeah. Yeah.

had, Sophia has to move because she pays the least amount in rent. Maybe. Or just like even if they are paying the same thing, you think she'd get a discount this month for the time that they're staying. Also, who is displacing the 81-year-old? You know what I mean? I just don't understand it. That's why I'm like, little Charlie? Really? I know.

Little Charlie is Rose's daughter's daughter. Or like, how about this? Like, how about Rose and her daughter sleep in the bed and little Charlie can sleep in a sleeping bag on the floor? Or how about you just put them in a hotel? Hey, guess what? We're camping. Look at us, Charlie. There's a little tent. I know. Isn't this fun? I love my in-laws. I dread the holiday that we have to spend with them every year. Not because they're not wonderful. They are, and it's really fun, but they want us all to stay at the house. And it's a big house, but it's not big enough. There's eight families. Oh, God. I know. I know.

I'm really letting it out today, John. No, listen, I'm an introvert. This is really, I'm sweating hearing, just hearing about it. I know. All right. So Dorothy, you know, convinces Sophia she's fine. So Sophia says, all right, fine, but I'm begging you, while we're sleeping together, please lay off the broccoli at dinner. To which Dorothy looks up and thinks, you know what, that's probably a good call. It's probably a good call. You can see the look on her face. I mean, dinosaur farts, right? Just, no, seriously, what's that one from Jurassic Park? Is it Dilophosaurus? Like, brr, brr.

You know? Dinosaur farts. Dinosaur farts. Coming out of good old Dot. Oh, God. Anyway, Blanche asks Rose, you know, I bet you're pretty excited about her visit, right? And Rose tells them she's actually kind of nervous. Well, I'm nervous because I made Kirsten executor of my will and I have to go over the documents with her. Well, honey, she's a big girl. I mean, this may not be the most pleasant conversation you two will ever have, but she can handle it. Well, there are just some things in there that might surprise her.

Oh, some deep, dark family secrets? No, I just don't know how she's going to react. And I honestly really related to this because I'm my mom's everything. I'm her healthcare proxy. I'm all of that. So the power of attorney, the executor, not that my mom has anything. I'm like, I said to my sisters, I'm like, you ain't sure getting a book, which is about the number of possessions our mother has. But like, it is a tough conversation. Like, I remember buying my mother's

plot 10 years ago, you know? But that's good that you did. And, you know, for all of us to do, these are things that no one likes to think about. Yeah. But there are two ways to enter those inevitable things that happen in life. There's the chaotic way. Yes. And there's the calm, prepared way. Which I usually err on the side of chaotic. I'm very, you know what the difference is? What? The husband. Well. Steve Tipton brings the sanity. Good.

Now, I don't want to spend a lot of time on this, but I do have to just say this because it comes up in the following scene. Just before this, Sophia, who's making scrambled eggs, talks about her friend Maria, always nervous as well when her daughter Teresa comes for a visit because her daughter is a hitman for the mob or something, right? Right.

And I love this, though. The rumor is she dated Frank Sinatra. She says, you know the song, The Lady is a Tramp? It used to be Teresa is a Tramp, which I just found so funny because I was like, that's why Teresa is a tramp. But I just, that's funny. It's funny. I got a little deep dive on this song. Oh, well, we are going to go deep then on this. We are going to go a little deep. Let's go back.

But I wanted to, this just made me think, Steve used to send this meme to me all the time. Yeah. That was like, it was like two slides and was, did you know that it used to be called a jumpalene until your mom got on it? Yeah.

That's funny. That's really funny. But so I was looking up this song, The Lady is... How do you even say it? The Lady is the Tramp? The Lady is the Tramp. Yeah. Made famous by Frank Sinatra. But the song actually is a show tune from the 1937 Rogers and Hart musical Babes in Arms. That's it. That's the one. Yeah. In which it was introduced by former child star Mitzi Green. Mm-hmm.

The song is apparently a spoof of New York high society and its strict etiquette. So the song quickly became a popular musical standard and was recorded by many of the greats of the time, including Tommy Dorsey and his orchestra, Sophie Tucker, Lena Horne recorded it in 1948. The song became associated with Frank Sinatra when it was used in the film version of

Mm-hmm.

So it doesn't surprise me that it was originally Teresa is a tramp. You know what I mean? Yes. That version was never commercially released. He also sang the song with new lyrics as The Gentleman is a Champ at tribute events for Orson Welles and Spiro Agnew. Spiro Agnew being the 39th vice president of the United States from 1969 to 1973 before he was forced to resign when he got busted taking bribes literally in his office. Oh, dear. To which I think we can say, I don't think...

I don't think Frank always kept the most up and up company. No. Well, we know that now, don't we? But really, the options are kind of endless. Yeah. That's why the lady has a cramp. That's why the lady bought a lamp. I mean, I think the U.S. Postal Service could be like, that's why you mail it with a stamp. You know what I mean? That's why the lady is a vamp. Or that's why the pianist has to vamp.

Let's keep going. How about, you know what? I'm feeling kind of damp. Ew. But I didn't mean it like that. I just came in from a literal rage. What?

Anyway. So before we go to the living room, let's just talk about our funny gal Blanche here for a second. So she's talking about how she would love to put some surprises in her will. I'd love to put some surprises in my will. Like leaving a small remembrance to each of the men who has brought some special joy or pleasure to my life. Where would they read that will, Blanche? The Astrodome? No.

Or maybe I just do something like, to my sister Virginia, I hereby bequeath my diamond brooch, my collection of Wedgwood china, and all my stock in AT&T. You have stock in AT&T? I don't have any of those things, but for one brief moment, Virginia would think she'd hit the jackpot.

The thing that I wrote, like, not to take it too seriously, but I think it's interesting that Blanche, because they're trying to have a serious conversation about wills. Yeah. And, like, the end of life. And I think Blanche can't take it seriously because she can't imagine she'll ever, she's literally too petite to ever die. You know what I mean? Exactly. She's too tiny and petite to ever die. Those tiny little veins are going to live forever. With an incredible body. You know, kitty cats live longer than dogs, Dorothy. Yeah.

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So the next scene, we're in the living room. Dorothy's on the couch. I wrote, Sophia is knitting. I love it. Well, it's cold. It's cold. She's got to make herself another sweater. And I have here, Dorothy's looking beautiful in a brown top and cream slacks. Yes. And a little bit later on, we're going to see Dorothy in like a silk pink feminine night set. I have never seen before. I know. She is here, though. She is, as we mentioned, she's reading a serious looking book. Very serious. Red edging. Right. Yeah.

It's nonfiction for sure. Absolutely. It's probably the Spiro Agnew biography. But Sophia is humming our little tune. That's why the hmm-hmm is a tramp. I just, we, remember like a recent episode, Sophia was on the lanai with her headphones on. Purple rain. Singing purple rain. I love that Sophia's

into music. I mean, she went to the Madonna concert not too long ago. She's what they might call hep. She's absolutely hep. So Blanche comes in and she's asking if like Rose and family have arrived yet. And they have not. Blanche has been out shopping and she's got, she picked up a stunning silk dress, a quote, incredibly revealing lace nightie and these adorable sequined socks. She pulls them out. And my note here, Jen, this is insane.

She pulls out these bright blue sparkly sequin socks. I know. And I was like, where on earth did she get these? And I said, is Blanchard cocaine? No. Who wears socks like that? Think about it. This was the Michael Jackson era. Uh-huh. And you remember he had sequin socks. Sequin socks. What kind of shopping spree did Blanchard's go to?

An incredibly revealing nightie that you just got to tell the girls about? That, I think, is her. Okay. An incredibly revealing lace nightie. A stunning silk dress. But like you, I didn't remember the blue sequined socks. And I was a little like, huh? And like...

And like the costumes department that had to make these blue sequined socks for this one moment that they never get back. We never see her in them. Speaking of costume department, I just love the draped over one shoulder scarf that she has. She takes off at just the right moment. I love the direction on that. I was like,

make it look lived in. You know what I mean? Make it look like it's your favorite outfit. That's right. That's right. She's artistic. She works at a museum. That's a museum wear look right there. I just love that she pulls out the socks and Dorothy is as confused as I am. Like, who is wearing these? Sequined socks. I think they kind of make a personal statement. Yeah, this end up...

Like, Sophia, dirty. The beave is dirty. Dirty, dirty, dirty. Beavers. So Blanche is saying she's happy that she got back before Kirsten and Charlie. And Sophia's confused that a girl could be named Charlie. That's right. And this is where we learn that Charlie the granddaughter was named after Rose's husband. So Sophia exits and Blanche sets up, I have here, a...

surreptitious convo with Dot. It's one of those things where, like, to me, this can only be sexual because Blanche only gets that concerned look on her face when she has to ask somebody something sexual. I know. You know? And she says to Dorit, she wants to make it very clear she needs to ask her a question, but if it's none of her business, she can just tell her to shut the hell up. Right. And then we get this

really hilarious visual because dorothy is saying to her girl we have no secrets you can ask me anything remember that one time you found me naked coming out of the kitchen with an oreo make this scenario make sense jen well let's go even further flange you caught me one night sneaking out of the kitchen naked with an oreo in my mouth and we have no secrets now ask your damn question

sneaking out with an Oreo in her mouth. I was like, was Dorothy drunk? In what situation is Dorothy walking from her room? You and I have posited she probably has a drinking problem with all those four-in-the-afternoon nightgowns she's wearing. I know. To live with roommates means to never be naked inside your apartment. That's true. Not even in the shower. You know what I mean? Not falling, grabbing for a towel rack. I know.

In the shower. I was just trying to imagine the scenario in which Dorothy is naked, leaves her room naked, walks all the way to the kitchen naked, gets the Oreo. That's a big kitchen. And we know the cookie jar's on the other side. With the wheel in it. With the wheel in it, which we're about to find out. But I was like, and then Blanche busts her, like just standing there, bare ass naked. I know. I know. It's a wild scenario. But really, what we're really getting to here is this is all an excuse to bring up the B storyline again. Right. Yeah.

Right? Yeah, because Blanche is saying, like, have you noticed that Rose is acting very strange? Yeah. And Blanche is convinced it has to be about the will. That wills make people do crazy things. Right. And Dorothy asks, like what, Blanche? She's like, like killing people. And so she brings up the Duncan Osgood murder case again. She says, Do you know what they just uncovered in the Duncan Osgood murder case? That the day before she was murdered, Tippi Paxton Osgood had changed her will, making Duncan the sole heir to the Paxton napkin fortune.

That man is guilty. Oh, come on. That's circumstantial evidence. I mean, it's not enough to convict him. Well, actually, the more damning evidence was a snapshot they found of Duncan dressed in scuba gear, dragging Tippy's body down the stairs wrapped in a carpet. Maybe it was from their wedding album.

Patrick, I have We Need to Write and Do a Play for a live show. Totally. Of this called The Osgood Maid. And I found that on a website called femalevillainsfandom.com. Oh my God. Yes, yes. They talk about The Osgood Maid. Now we'll get to The Maid later. Everyone here has seen the episode. But I just thought that would be really funny if we acted out this. I love it. We have to do it. You have to be The Osgood Maid. Jennifer Simard, you get above the title billing. No, but I want to be Tippi Peck's Osgood. Ha ha ha.

Holding a dickie. I did look up the name Duncan Osgood. Oh, yeah, I did too. And there are several different Duncan Osgoods. And that must be kind of fun because it's not so famous that it would ruin your life like Michael Bolton or something. Cheesecake, stand by because I've got something wild to tell you later. You don't even know. I haven't even told you about it. I'm really excited. Yeah, yeah. But Dorothy's just saying like, oh my God, this is circumstantial evidence. It's not enough to convict him. And just as like a true crime girly myself, I love hearing words like circumstantial evidence. Go get them, Dotty.

Wouldn't Dot have been a perfect defense attorney or a prosecutor? I think defense attorney. Yeah. She strikes me as like, why didn't she go to law school? It seems like she missed a calling. You know what I mean? Yeah. She would have been really good at it. But then they say, and this is great, it was actually the more damning evidence they found was a snapshot they found of Duncan dressed in scuba gear, dragging Tippi's body down the stairs wrapped in a carpet.

But it really seems like Duncan did it. They got a snapshot of him walking down the stairs with Tippi's body wrapped in the carpet. She's going to be found at the bottom of the lake clutching his dickie. Well, stay tuned. Stay tuned. So,

So Rose enters with her daughter and her granddaughter. And I got to tell you right off the bat, I do not like the attitude. I know. Let's talk a little bit about the actress that plays her, shall we? Yeah. So this is the actress who plays Kirsten. I have a little DD on her. Her name is Christine Belford. Yes. She was born Christine Riley. And this is the most fascinating thing I have about her right here. You're going to love this. My true crime. Love that you are. What? So she was born in New York in Amityville, Long Island. The family once lived in New York.

At 112 Ocean Avenue, the location which later became famous as the setting of the Amityville Horror. She lived in that house? Yes, and guess this. She lived there for about five years from ages 11 to 16. So that's like old enough to remember that house. Would it have been before or after? It must have been after. No, they lived there before. Oh, they lived there before? Yes, yes.

Oh, wow. Yes, yes. But she was there at ages where you absolutely remember every nook and cranny of that house. Can I tell you something insane? Yes. I've driven out to see that house. You have? They've now renumbered all the streets on the block. But obviously, like, the house is unmissable. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It looks exactly like what it looks like. It's wild to think that I've driven out to this woman's old house. Like, I've seen... I know. Like, forget the Amityville Horror. I've seen, like, the home where this actress actually lived. That's wild. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. That is crazy. It's too bad we don't like her character.

I know. Because we should have her on the show. Let's be nice. She's a great actress. She is a great actress. It's just a character we don't like. And she's so beautiful. Well, she is. Those cheekbones. Yeah. She's doing a great job because you don't like her the second you see her. Right. But anyway. No. And I'll get more how much I actually do love this actress. And that's the truth. But anyway. So she moved to Los Angeles near the end of 1970. And at the suggestion of her friend, actress Carrie Snodgrass. Carrie Snodgrass? I just love that name. So I had to say it. Wow. Old-timey style. Snodgrass. Snodgrass.

She auditioned at Universal Pictures. She performed a scene from the film The Country Girl for the Head of Talent. And because of that, she received a seven-year acting contract from Universal Pictures. I also love that they were still offering, like, contracts at that time, you know? Anyway, this is how I know her, okay? She appeared in many, many guest roles. Like, you name a show, she was probably in it in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. That's...

really hard to do and she nailed it and there's too many to list so I'm gonna tell you the ones that I remember seeing her in okay Ironside The Six Million Dollar Man Chips The Greatest American Hero Wonder Woman Magnum P.I. Heart to Heart The Incredible Hulk Family Ties Beverly Hills 90210 Battlestar Galactica My Two Dads Murder She Wrote Diagnosis Murder Quincy and The Golden

The Golden Girls. Oh my goodness gracious. That's not even the whole list. Wow. I want to thank Christine. You nailed it, girl. And it's also hard because this character is hard to like. So they come in. It's her and it's her daughter, Charlie. And, you know, Rose is introducing them to everybody. And this is one more time, Dorothy. She says a regular hello to Kirsten. Then she goes, hello, Kirsten. Hiya, Charlie. Hiya, Charlie. Like, Dorothy.

Dorothy is out of her mind this week. Dorothy is out of her mind this week. Oh, Blanche's roses told us so much about you. They're so glad they finally got to Miami. Yeah. And this is where we first get the first little bit of, huh. Kirsten says, well, when mom told me she needed me to review the estate papers, I figured it was a perfect excuse to come for a visit. The thing about it is, and it really does.

settle into it eventually. It's hard to imagine this woman was raised by Rose. Yeah. But eventually, I think what happens is like, if you really imagine the actual characters as real people, it seems almost like she thought of her mother as a little bit simple-minded, even though we'll

see later Rose really does pull into a more parental role in one moment where you can kind of see the dynamic. And I think that like the daughter, Kirsten, strikes me as somebody who was like, I'm not going to be like that. I am going to go to law school. I am going to be, you know, assertive and aggressive in a way that my mother isn't. And so that like seeing that tension right now, because Rose is so beloved, it's a little bit hard to see like an antagonist.

to her. Yeah, and also, it seems to me that casting did that on purpose. They cast someone who kind of reeks of high-class wealth. Yes, yes. You know, she just, her whole air is just very classy. Like, if I'm running a character study for this woman, I'm like, she went to Stanford, graduated at the top of her class, you know, she works in New York City at some, like, big, high-stakes law firm. Like, that's the kind of woman she seems like. Yeah. Anyway, Rose is like, oh, it's just a will, Kirsten. I wouldn't call it estate papers. And now we get something real funny. This is good. Charlie

is excited. She's like, while we're down here, I'm going to go to astronaut camp. Astronaut camp? There's a camp for astronauts? Is it close by? Down, Blanche. It's a special program for young people. Isn't that something? My granddaughter wants to be an astronaut? Not really, Grandma. I just want to meet boys who want to be astronauts. Meet

Me too. To which I'm like, are we encouraging this? Can we just look at Charlie and be like, it's okay to want to be an astronaut. In fact, it's a great thing to want to be an astronaut. It's also okay to want to meet boys who

I know. I just have a 10-year-old daughter who's really starting to express interest in boys. And I want to be like, can you please maintain your personhood? Trigger warning. Trigger warning. Yeah, exactly. I got a little deep dive on Space Camp, though. Do it. Like, this astronaut camp is a real thing. So Space Camp sounds really fun until you learn what it actually is. Space Camp was founded in 1982 as an educational camp to promote

mathematics and science to children using the U.S. space program as a basis. So the one that we're talking about here, the Space Camp Florida opened in 1988. So it actually wouldn't have been opened when Charlie was there because it's 1986, but maybe they knew it was coming. And it shared facilities with the Astronaut Hall of Fame in Tuttsville, Florida, both of which were operated by the now defunct U.S. Space Camp Foundation. Now get this.

Remember, space camp sounds like a place where you get to go and pretend to do like moon landings and like anti-zero gravity shit and all the stuff where you're spinning around. The space camp facility closed in Florida in 2002 due to low attendance because you lied to people. Yeah. You tricked them into going to space camp and they get there, they have to do math and

science all summer. Yeah, homework. That's fun. But it's funny because do you remember the movie Space Camp? No. So there's a great movie called Space Camp with Kate Capshaw and Kelly Preston and Leif Phoenix who would then later go on to be Joaquin Phoenix and Leah Thompson and it was this movie that I watched a million times when I was a kid but it was all about Space Camp but it was really cool. These kids got access

accidentally launched into space and the big adventure was they had to get themselves home. So, like, all these kids want to go to space camp hoping they're going to get to do that, but now you're going to sit and do math all summer. You lied to us. You lied to us. All right, so we're back and, you know, Kirsten, the daughter, says, you know, Charlie, you want to give Dorothy and Blanche the presents we bought for them. And, of course, they're what? What?

They're very popular in Minnesota. Maple syrup, honey, brown sugar, molasses, rice crispy logs. One for each of you. One for each of you. Dorothy hates these. I know, but she's very funny here. She says, how sweet. How incredibly sweet. This is actually a really great moment because Charlie and Kirsten and Rose are going to go get settled in the bedroom. And so as they're walking away, we get this shot of Dorothy and Blanche. And Blanche says, What are you going to do with yours? It's a log. I'm going to burn it.

And as Kirsten walks by, we get this classic Bea Arthur joke delivery where she answers. She's like waving at Kirsten and looking down the hall and she just says, it's a log. I'm going to burn it. I know. She's waving to Kirsten's back. It's so good. I have that here because it's casual. It's filled with joy. Totally. Right? Yeah. It's a log. I'm going to burn it. You

You know, it's just so good. It's so good. So it's later that evening. We're all out on the... I know, it's impossible. It's impossible. On the lanai. I know. Finishing dinner. And I have to say, doesn't it look lovely? Yes. I want to live there.

They live there right now. The Lanai seems to be where they have their fancy dinners. We never really see them having dinner inside in the kitchen at the table. No. Well, because there aren't four seats. Right. Right. Exactly. But we saw there was Dr. Jonathan Newman. They had the big fancy dinner out there. They had the little tiki party for David when he was leaving. There is no, it looks like there's no actual dining room, right? Yeah, that's true. It's nice to have a table in the kitchen, especially any New York City dweller will tell you that. Yeah. But yeah, they're outdoor in Florida. They're outdoors in long sleeves and pants. I know. You know what I mean? I know.

Yeah.

But everyone is complimenting Rose on dinner. And like, here's my question to you. Okay. Because like everyone's like, oh my God, it must've been so hard to make. Oh my God, blah, blah, delicacy. But yeah, it's shepherd's pie. Do we live in a world where people haven't heard of shepherd's pie? Well, I mean, but it's so the show can happen. It's so the joke can happen. Okay. So it's not like shepherd's pie is an obscure thing. It was just done for the joke. No, it's not obscure. Yeah. It was just done for the joke. But I have a little deep dive on shepherd's pie. You do? I do. Tell me everything. I happen to love shepherd's pie. Same. Oh my God. It's like ground lamb and veggies and mashed potatoes. Is it your deep dive or

I'm sorry. I'll just sit here. No, why don't you go? I'll wait. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.

Okay. The name shepherd's pie. I'm teasing you. I'm in trouble, Cheesy. Oh, no, I love it. The name shepherd's pie first appeared in an English cookbook in 1877. Huh. And it attributes the dish to Scotland. Huh. While complaining that it is too, and I need your help here. Yeah. For Rinna. I meant to look this up before we started. Hold on. Okay.

While complaining that it is too farinaceous. Sorry, tell the cheesecakes how long it took us to figure out how to say that word. Guys, I had to look it up on pronunciation.com. I was like farinaceous, farinaceous. And then I was like, what does it mean? Farinaceous, starchy. We can't just say starchy. I mean, what an elaborate word for starchy. I know.

Complaining that it is too farinaceous. Farinaceous. All right. It was too, what did I say it was? Farinaceous. Farinaceous. Since the potato topping was evidently itself topped by a wheat flour shell. Oh, I don't think we need that. Listen, today's shepherd pie has no shell. It sounds very farinaceous to me. Do you know what I mean? It sounds a little too farinaceous. I love learning new words. When I was a little girl, I used to read big people.

books and I used to sit with a dictionary, but I was Dorothy as a little girl. I used to sit with the dictionary and that is how I learned the word Rubicund. And I just told my sister-in-law the other day and she wrote full grown adult in her 50s. I just had to look up Rubicund. What does it mean? I have no idea. It's like a ruddy complexion. Oh my God. So now all I'm saying is I'm going to try to put Farinaceous in everything I say. But anyway, today's shepherd pie has no shell. It's a

casserole of layered mashed potatoes on top, where the old shell used to be, and the bottom. And the bottom? Yes. It's like a mashed potato sandwich. I didn't know that. Exactly. It has a filling in the middle. Some cookbooks distinguish between Irish and Scottish versions. The former using lamb, which thank God you contributed to us. Thank you, Patrick. And the latter using beef and neeps, they say, or turnips.

I don't know what neeps are. Farinaceous, if ever there were a vegetable. You want to look up neeps? No. All right. Anyway, either way, it is comfort delicious food. And I have here, in the winter, I would recommend serving it with a nice Bordeaux or a Guinness. We're going to take your suggestion. No, and I'm looking up neeps. I can't. I cannot. Because you know that we can't.

say that and the cheesecakes are not going to... Let's see. Neeps definition. Oh, haggis and neeps. It's a turnip, ladies and gentlemen. Oh, so when I had neeps or turnips, they just meant the other word for neeps. Well, now I'm not going to say turnips anymore. Hey, Patrick.

Hey, Patrick, pick up some neeps, would you, at the farmer's market? Thank you. Oh, my God. Give me some farinaceous neeps. Okay. So back in the episode, everyone's complimenting it. Sophia hates it. She has absolutely no problem saying where I come from. It's called garbage. Because it's not Italian. Right, exactly. But Rose says it was her husband's favorite. Charlie used to ask for it at least once a week. Now, Blanche cannot hear somebody say a story about somebody asking for something once a week and not turn it into a sex story. That's right.

- No, I don't believe George ever requested anything special from me. At least not in the kitchen. No, that's not entirely true. Once on our anniversary. Or was it on payday? Anyway, I remember a butcher block table was involved. - Blanche.

Dorothy, like she's doing that thing where her eyes start to glaze over and she's slipping into a sex story. Like a shark. Like a shark. Her eyes roll back in her head. Like a doll's eyes. The best part is that she tells this story in her narcissism because she doesn't realize that like 11-year-old Charlie is sitting right across the table from her and Dorothy has to point it out to her. This young girl has been sitting across the table from her for the last three hours. Blanche doesn't even see her. That's right. Doesn't even see her. Dorothy says Blanche and then Blanche does see her and says, oh, oh.

I said Blanche is lost in her sex narcissism. So Rose asks if everyone's ready for dessert. Essentially, her and Kirsten get up to go into the kitchen to get the dessert. I will say that she's going to slice into the Rice Krispie Long, but I love a double. And Dorothy and Blanche both at the same time say, Just coffee. Just coffee. Just coffee.

Anyway, so yes, we're traveling from the living room to the kitchen. And Kirsten is telling her mother that she thinks her friends are lovely. And she's really actually very surprised. Yes. Because when Rose told her that she was moving in with some other ladies, you know, she didn't think that Rose needed to do that because she was so independent and she could afford to live on her own. She's saying for a person who can afford to live any way they want to, why would you want roommates? And yeah.

this as a viewer is when we're like, wait, what? Yeah, exactly. You know, like, like Kirsten, for some reason, thinks that her mother is very rich. That's right. And, you know, Rose is trying to like explain like Rose has something she wants to tell her, but doesn't know how to get it out. So she tells her, I want you to take a look at my will. And this is where she pulls out the cookie jar. And I have here, we talked about it a little bit before, but I'm like, does no one in the house eat cookies? I know. What about those Oreos Dot was talking about? Oh,

Or those Malamars that they're always eating. But also, don't we know that this is Blanche's backup location for her jewelry? That's right. It's a busy cookie jar. This jar is bottomless. I know. It's the Batcave. What if there is no... Oh, that brings out the artist in me.

And so, like, they sit down and Kirsten is, like, looking over the will. And she's instantly very concerned. She's saying the numbers don't add up. And the mom is like, no, no, no. Like, Rose is like, no, no, no. I've had it looked over by an accountant and a lawyer. And it's right. And Kirsten's like, there's nothing there. Right. And Rose is saying, of course there is. And Kirsten's like, no, no, no. But, like, not what should be there. Yeah. And this is where we realize that, like, Kirsten thinks that Charlie, the husband...

died and left Rose all of this money because he was the most successful insurance salesman in his company. And this is where Kirsten turns on her mother. Kirsten's got a temper that needs to be worked on. Right, right. Because she instantly is just like furious with her mother just as Blanche and Dorothy are walking in to sort of to try to help. In 15 years, you managed to piddle away the fortune it took Daddy a lifetime to build. Kirsten, it's not that simple. Just tell me how it happened.

How could you go through everything Daddy earned? I don't know. Bad investments. I guess I got a little greedy. You know, get-rich-quick schemes. I lost it all. I'm sorry. Mother, I am so ashamed of you.

bad investments. I got a little greedy. She said, that's the big clue that this story is not real. Right. You can just smell it too because Betty White is doing a good job of doing that face acting where she's saying something but we know her well enough now that it's not really true. It's funny. I wonder if we know her well enough now because we've watched the show 8,000 times because I do remember like one of the times seeing this, having not seen this episode in a long time, thinking like, oh my God, Rose, what did you do? Well, you know what? I think that's the job well done then to make us question it and not be sure. Yes. She just, she says, I lost it. I'm

sorry. And this is the big thing. This is why she was nervous. This is why she was afraid to have Kirsten come. And Kirsten says this in front of Blanche and Dorothy. She says, mother, I am so ashamed of you. Oh, that cut deep. If I ever talked to my lesbian mother like that, can you imagine? She'd be Sophia with a melon baller and she gets up and walks

out and it's just like to me it tells you a bit about who kirsten is as a person that a there's no empathy for her mother who clearly has many years of life left to live and has no is broke right she doesn't ask a question she doesn't want to hear it she doesn't really want the explanation she just gets up and walks out and i was like kirsten's a tough cookie she's very icy yes yeah yeah the character not the actress correct all right so dorothy come and blanche come right over to her once kirsten and they're like i don't believe it well me neither

-Rosen Island isn't the kind to squander her money on bad investments. -It's true. I did it. I guess you two don't know me as well as you think you do.

And I just have like, there's a lot to unpack here. Like number one, 15, like how much money does Kirsten think was left? Right. Right. 15 years. And you, Rose is a volunteer. She's not really working for a paycheck. Like how much money would it take for a regular person to live comfortably or even like modestly comfortably for 15 years? Oh, Patrick, you asked that question.

You know we're not going to be able to answer it because math. But now some cheesecakes are going to go back in time and do the inflation. Someone's going to do the math. Well, the point is just money goes fast. You know what I mean? Money goes real fast. And so, like, that's point number one. Point number two, don't talk to your mother like that, Kirsten. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's really icy. Also, mother. I know. What is she talking about? Mother. Cheesecake? Yeah.

At point number three, it's like, I hate it when people get wrapped up in money that isn't theirs. Like, Kirsten, are you mad because now money's not going to be left to you? That's what I thought. I was like, wait a minute, what are we really pissed off about here? Because if Rose was 40 when Charlie died and she's supposed

to live on that until she's, let's say, 85 and then leave money for Kirsten after that. That would have to have been millions and millions of dollars. Well, that's what I wonder. Like, is it that or is it, oh my gosh, I'm going to have to take care of my mother? Like, there's a lot of unanswered questions. Right. Look, not that these aren't valid concerns. I think, but because we know how sweet Rose is. Yes. And because Kirsten, the character they've written is just an ice queen. It's just hard to watch. It is hard to watch. Yeah.

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So we come back. It's later that night. I said Rose is watching a portable TV at the kitchen table. Very forlorn. Very forlorn. She's got her head leaning on her hand. And like whatever she's watching, the network that she's watching is tuning out for the night, which I was like, they were still doing that in 1986. I know. And they sang goodnight with a national anthem and Rose stands up and puts her hand over her heart. So sweet. The dot comes in in a nice,

coral satin number. I'm telling you, it's a bright pink, feminine satin pajamas. I've never seen it. Have we seen it? I don't know. It was reminiscent of the robe Stan was wearing. It's kind of like the same color. You're right. It was probably bought as a set. But the one thing that I will say that really stands out are the shoulder pads. Even in the night sets, even in the pajama sets, the shoulder pads were crazy. You gotta get those pads in. Anyway, she comes in and she turns off the radio and she's...

At ease, Rose. Come on, honey. Why don't you get some sleep? When we have nurturing Dorothy, I just think nobody does it better. No, and like Dorothy is the rock. You know what I mean? Like Dorothy is definitely the person that's going to like, you know, make you, and if she's not calling you a Jezebel and say you could never really be a good friend to a woman, she's going to make you feel better about it. Too extreme. Totally. If she's not calling you a slut, she's really nice. Yeah.

Guys, she's so nice. It's true. But, you know, we're also kind of learning here that there's still more to the story. Yeah. Because she's trying to get her to also talk about it. And Rose is saying, like, I can't. I just can't talk about it. And narcissistic Blanche enters. And she's like, listen, here you are. I just spent five minutes telling your bathroom door that everything's going to be fine between you and your daughter. Yes. And Rose is also

in her own world monologuing about how you should never lie, that lying is really bad. So Blanche just says... She looks at her ring and she's like, okay, it was only three minutes. But still, I stood there like a fool with a shimmy, Patrick. Right. Like a fool. But see, so this is the thing where like, we know that Rose has told some kind of lie, but we don't, she's not really ready to tell us yet. That's right. Sophia enters. Carrying her purse. And like this where Sophia just lays a, like, you tell a lie, you go straight to hell. Sometimes I forget how Catholic...

Sophia is. Exactly. You know? Like Italian Catholics. Can we call it with a straight to hell language? Seriously. It's very triggering for like a gay guy that grew up in the 90s. I know. I know. And raised Catholic. Exactly. Me too. Anyway, they go, we have a section here about, you know, the ball starts rolling on the gal's biggest lies. Yes. Right? Rose, ask them, what's the biggest lie you've ever told?

And this is so good. Yeah. Because we get more of Blanche's relationship with her sisters. Remember, like, Virginia was the one that we met, and they were very competitive. And Charmaine, it was like Virginia and Charmaine were really mean to her. They electrocuted her that one time, remember? Yes, yes. And then went and told Big Daddy that she electrocuted them. Oh, please. Charmaine got out of everything. Charmaine got out of everything. So the biggest lie that Blanche ever told Charmaine. I once told my sister Charmaine that she was left on our doorstep by gypsies. What?

Well, Flash, why would you want to do a thing like that? She annoyed me. Always mouthing off about how her hair was curlier than mine, her complexion was prettier than mine. I finally said there was good reason for it. She was left by gypsies. Had her completely convinced. What did she say when you told her the truth? Oh, I never did. I even tried to help her find her little old gypsy mama. Oh.

And so they ask Blanche, so when did you tell her that it wasn't true? And Blanche says, I never told her. I even tried to help her find her little old gypsy mama. Now, I know that gypsy is not a word that we say anymore. We don't say that anymore. We know that that is an antiquated word. We don't say that word. But I just have this note here that I love the idea that Charmaine is just out there thinking that she was abandoned on a doorstep. Yeah. To this day. To this day. And I wonder if it made its way into a chapter in a subplot of Vixen's story of a woman. Maybe. That's why she couldn't donate a kidney. Totally.

We're not related. Dorothy comes in. We love this. She says, well, I lied to Stan. Well, I lied to Stan. I used to tell him how great he was in bed. It was really very difficult, but fortunately, I only had to tell him on his birthday. Oh, my God.

Do you get it? They only had sex once a year on his birthday. You get that? Do you get it? The beef. Right. They get this really slow zoom in on Dorothy and you can really see how serious the shoulder pad situation is. They're like pointed. They're like pyramids. It's the 80s, baby. Dynasty country.

Anyway, you know, Rose tells them, I lied to Kirsten. Now she hates me for it. And the whole thing here that we're going to learn is that what she lied about was how successful Charlie was. And she can't tell Kirsten that, but she's trying to protect Kirsten and allow her to keep this image of her father that

isn't really true. So Rose's existential crisis here is like, am I going to tell her the truth and reconcile or am I going to let her think that I'm an irresponsible woman who fitted away all this money so she can keep this positive image of her father? It's a tough choice. Yeah. So Rose exits and Blanche says, oh my God, it's worse than I thought. And we're back to the B story. She's obsessed with the trial that's happening in Palm Beach and she's trying to find parallels. True crime Blanche. True crime girly Blanche. And she really wants whatever Rose's big secret

secret is to be juicy. Oh, she's just in it for the drama. Yes. And Dorothy's like, listen, Blanche, it's really none of our business. Come on, Ma, let's go to bed. And I was saying, like, I'm kind of on Blanche's side here. Like, I want the tea. I want to know what's going on. You know, Rose has been lying to her daughter for 15 years. I want to know what she's been lying about. That's right. They gave up a bedroom for her. Exactly.

So Blanche is like, you know what? Yeah, I have no secrets from any of you. My whole life is an open book. And Sophia says, your whole life is an open blouse. My favorite part of this, though, is Blanche's reaction afterwards. Because she's just like, looks up, her ring. I remember thinking about this years ago that like, when watching The Golden Girls, that Rue McClanahan as an actor had to decide how she was going to respond to insults from Sophia. And she decides to be in on the joke, which I think is so, it's the only way. We said

We started to say it the same time because we think the same thing.

But it's true. It's like, what is she going to get mad at Sophia every single time? No, like she's in on the joke. It's great. You know? So we transitioned to Rose's bedroom where Charlie is playing dress up and make believe something. It's a rite of passage for every little girl. It's so cute. And she's like, you know, she's like in grandma's high heels and she's got her necklace on and she's, you know, she's like feeling very cute. I said, this moment is very Daisy. That's right. This is something Daisy would definitely do. Actually, when we started today, I said, this moment made me think of Daisy. Yeah. I got to bring over like a

box of high heel shoes or something. Oh my God, she would go crazy. Yeah, we gotta do that. That'd be fun. Yeah. Rose is letting Charlie know that lunch is ready and this is just going to be a sweet scene between Charlie and grandma. Now, I want to say, I have a deep dive on the actress who plays Charlie. I'm going to save it for the end. Okay, that sounds good. And there's a reason. All right.

Well, astronaut boy Crazy Charlie tells her grandmother that she has a date. Yes. And I love that Rose's great grandmother, obviously a great mother, she says, oh, I see anybody I know. Charlie tells her that the name is Robert, right? And Rose says that she used to go with a boy named Robert and that his father owned the movie house in town. One month, I saw the same picture 15 times, Rose says. And Charlie says, sounds like cable, which is

such an 80s joke. Yeah. But I thought in doing the research on the actress who plays Charlie, and we'll get more when I do the deep dive at the end, this is kind of an inside baseball joke because the actress who plays Charlie, her name is Bridget Anderson. She starred in the 1982 film Savannah Smiles, which I totally remember that movie. She starred in it when she was seven years old. The film was a moderate success at the box office, but it became a much more popular over the years due to its notoriously frequent airings on cable TV. Cable. So it's funny that they give that line to that young actress. Yeah.

You know what I mean? I do know. A little bit of like a shout out to like her being famous. Oh, that's sweet. Yeah. So Rose, you know, asked her to tell her about Robert. What's he like? And Charlie says he's a lot like Grandpa. And Rose says, really, does he look like Grandpa? She says, no, he looks like Bruce Springsteen. Yeah. And I'm setting this all up

because this is important. Rose says, oh, well, then how is he like grandpa? And Charlie says he works very, very hard and he's very, very rich. So I said, let's pause on this for a second, because this tells us a bit about Kirsten, because Kirsten's her mother. That's who Charlie would have heard about her grandfather from. Right. And the only two things Kirsten says is he works very, very hard and he's very, very rich. Now, I love the he works very, very hard part. Yeah, I think that's great. Right. But he's very, very rich. It's like I was just

thinking like Kirsten you'd ever told her anything like no memories you had with your dad none of the special things or the songs you used to sing or the drives you used to take all that you wanted to impart to your daughter is that he was very hardworking and very very rich as a result and like I don't want to be too hard on the Kirsten character here because the next thing Rose says to her is like well what else do you know about grandpa and she says and what else I don't know that's all I've ever heard about grandpa oh I see

Oh, I wish you'd known, Grandpa Charlie.

You'd have liked him a lot. Do you think he would have liked me? Liked you? He would have adored you. And Rose says, oh, I see. And I have this is the aha moment. And, you know, kudos hats off to Betty White because she invests and what else in the OIC with a lot of pathos. Yes. And, you know, in those very few words, everything you just said. Yes. You know, just the way she acted it. She's realizing that, like, what did I do to raise a daughter that would only value these two things? Right. Because.

Because even though we learn later that he was out of town so much, surely they were spending holidays together. To your point, like, don't you have like a Christmas memory or birthdays or something? Or like a photo album. Right, right, right. Yeah. And it's also really sweet because Charlie, Daisy is literally a year younger than the actress who's playing Charlie in this moment. So I understand that kids this age do ask these kinds of questions. Like, would grandpa have liked me?

And it's kind of a sad moment because it's kind of like, oh, my God. And Rose is just like, of course, he would have adored you. And those relationships, if they can exist, are very important. Yeah. You know? So, Sofia pokes into the doorway in a plaid house dress to ask, are you two coming? The spaghetti is getting cold. Yes. I would like to eat Sofia's spaghetti. Honest to God. God, can you imagine? The pasta al forno. Oh, yeah.

Her pizza's not so good, though. That goddamn Mama Celeste. Goddamn it. Rose is like, we'll be there in a minute. We're in the middle of makeup lesson. And Sophia says, I hope the kid can help you. You wear more rouge than Miss Piggy. It's very funny. Very funny. That's a very good joke. So it's night now, and we're in Dot's full-size bed. Oh, God. It's like a three-quarter bed. It's so small. Anyway, so Dot is tossing and turning and punching her pillow. Like that pitch, she murdered it, essentially. And you know this?

stage direction was like Dorothy is tossing in her sleep. Like you say, Terry Hughes is like, okay, we got that. Okay, it was a 36. How about we take it at a 10? How do you feel about that? I love that she's saying to the actress, tell me again what the devil spirits were like in that house you grew up in because I want to levitate like how they did. What are the stage directions here? Like, okay, so Dorothy is being visited by an incubi.

You know? Dorothy is fully possessed. There's a succubus and an incubi. One at the feet, one at the head. Anyway. It's very over the top. Sophia's had it. That's it. I'm out of here. Ma, what's the matter? I can't sleep all night long, tossing and turning. I'd get more rest on Space Mountain.

I'm sorry, Ma. I can't help it. Hey, I could live with the tossing and turning. Your cold feet are what's driving me crazy. It's like having two size nine fudgicles pressed up against my butt. She calls them fudgicles, but I was like, or potatoes.

Those freezing cold baked potatoes. Those freezing cold baked potatoes. Dorothy, for some reason in this scene, is exhausted. She's like, Ma, I've got to get back to sleep. That's my question, too. Like, she's been so happy. I'm like, did the uppers wear off? But that's what it is. Like, she walked into the opening scene, good morning. How you doing, Charlie? Hiya, Charlie. Hiya, Charlie. It was so, like, yes, the uppers have absolutely worn off.

Oh, God. How dare we? We have decided that Dorothy is an alcoholic and addicted to pills. Totally. I know. I know. I mean, listen, we know she was a horse better. So Rose knocks on the door. She comes in and, you know, they basically flip-flop. Sophia is going to get her old bed back. And this is where it dawned on me for the first time, Patrick. I

I got it. So Kirsten and Charlie have Rose's room and Rose has had Sophia's room. I think I thought that Kirsten and Charlie were going to get Sophia's room. But Rose went in there instead. And again, I'm like, so Rose couldn't hit the couch? I'm just saying. I know.

They could just go to a hotel. I will never not go back to that. I know. You know what I mean? So Rose gets into the bed now with Dot. And Rose is asking Dorothy, do you feel like talking? Oh, honey, if it can wait until morning, I'd really appreciate it. I'm exhausted. She's so tired. What happened? Why is she so tired? The thing that's making me laugh is as I was watching it, I was like, but why? Like, we haven't heard what... Beavs, the beaver.

Leave it to Beaver. Why? I know. Why is she so tired? Why, Beaver? I need to know. Good morning! Hiya, Charlie! It's wild. And I love that maybe if you're Bea Arthur, it's like, you know what? Let's just do the first one for fun. They're never going to use this take. You know what I mean? Let me just get a feel for the room. I'm just crying. Anyway. Good morning!

So Rose just can't help herself. She says, Dorothy, you're sleeping with a liar. And Dorothy says, don't worry about it, Rose. Most of the people I've slept with with liars, which we know is true. The only one we know she's ever had sex with is Glenn. That's really it. Because, yeah, Stan's just birthdays. I mean, technically, she did sleep with him. That's true. But Elliot, we know that was just a sexless relationship. Absolutely. It was just all golf. We're not playing at anything anymore. Yeah.

Anyway, Dorothy. I'll call you in a few days when you've had time to calm down. Don't bother. I really have nothing else to say to you. So calm. Remember, it's

It's still flabbergasted by how calm. She must have been on a downer at that point. After a long night of tossing and turning. After a long night of calling Blanche a slut and a Jezebel, she took a downer and there it goes. Anyway, so she tells Rose goodnight. And Rose is just here to unburden herself. Like we, Cheesecakes, we've let you in a little bit on like what Rose's big secret is, but like Rose hasn't told anybody yet. That's right. That's right. And she's just

saying a lie is like a snowball. You tell one, you have to tell another to cover it up. And more and more and more. This is where she says, I was going to let Kirsten leave tomorrow and never tell her the truth. I was willing to risk having her hate me to protect Charlie's memory. That's Charlie, my husband, not Charlie, my granddaughter.

But you'd know that if you were still awake. Then today, I found that the lies I've been telling about Charlie are hurting Charlie, husband and granddaughter respectively. So tomorrow, I'm just gonna have to stop this lying.

and tell the truth no matter how much it might hurt all of us. The lie wasn't to Kirsten about where the money went. The lie was that there was no money ever to begin with. That's right. And she realizes that in hurting Charlie, she's going to hurt Charlie, meaning her granddaughter, you know. I think that moment of the fact that

granddaughter, all she knows about her grandfather is that he was successful and rich and worked very hard. Rose is like, he was such a wonderful man. Her internal monologue is like, he was such a great person and he actually wasn't those things. So you think you know him, but those two things, he worked very, very hard and was very, very rich. Those are the only two things you know about him that

aren't true. Yeah. Well, I think he did work very, very hard. Sure. But he just wasn't very good at his job. He's like me with math. Not so good at it. 100%. So this is what like she's working out with Dorothy is that she's got to tell Kirsten the truth, not even to save her relationship with Kirsten, but so that Kirsten and Charlie will get to know the real Charlie. It's the right thing to do. It's the right thing. That's the right thing to do. And so she works it all out. And she's, you know, expressing gratitude to Dorothy for helping her get through times like this.

As she's saying these nice things to Dorothy, this was a moment that I really loved. Because she's like, she thinks Dorothy is asleep and she's saying these really sweet things and she's saying them kind of slowly. And she's happy because she's made the decision. She knows what she's going to do. And it's the way she says it. She says, Dorothy, I want you to know that having friends like you really helps me get through times like this. You sleep well and I'll see you in the morning. I love you.

I love you. The way she says it is like, she's so grateful. Yeah. Like we were saying, Dorothy is such a rock. Yeah. And I think just the closeness to her physically made her feel like it was safe to make this decision. And that I love you is so like, you know, these women that found each other later in life and they are rocks for each other. I really felt that I love you. Like I really,

Right. And the thing is, first of all, I couldn't agree more. Yeah. And it only makes what comes up next even better. And I truly, I love that you were focused on that. I couldn't wait to get to this part. Yeah. Clearly you can see how excited I am. Right. Because there's like a four second pause. I have beat, beat, beat, beat. Thank God. I thought you'd never shut up. It's so good.

It's my favorite moment of the episode. It's so good. It's so fucking funny. It's so good. You know, I mean, like, I think anybody who has a friendship like that in your life, you're so lucky. I do. Yeah, I do too. Yeah. A couple. Me too. I have a couple friendships where they're my ride or dies. Yeah. I'm so glad you said that. Yes. Patrick and I don't compare notes about who's going to say what. And so sometimes we sort of work it out in the moment. Yeah. And I seriously couldn't wait for the thing. I know. I could never shut up. It was like me when I was ready to go to her hanging. Right, right, right.

I'm really glad you paused for that because it's really, it was lovely. Thank you. Thank you. I love you. I love you back. I love you. Oh, thank you for that. You know, when people say thank you, when you say, I love you. Thank you. I love you. Thank you. So rude. Anyway. Okay. So cheesecakes. Moving on. So we're at the B storyline again. Sorry. Can we break for a minute? Okay.

Oh, my God. So we're back in the living room. Yeah, we're back to the B-storyline. Blanche enters the living room. I swear it's the same folded newspaper from the first scene. Oh, really? I looked at it like, you know, it's just folded a different way. It's like you didn't go and get two of those. Totally. Podcasts didn't even exist back then. They never thought like two idiots 40 years later. Idiots. Goddamn geniuses. To you, sir. My good sir. I take it back.

But Blanche comes in and she's telling Dorothy that... Who's reading on the couch the very serious nonfiction red foil book. Oh, my God. Well, whoever said a man is innocent until proven guilty sure said a mouthful. I was wrong about Duncan. He didn't kill Tippy. What about all that evidence? The scuba gear, the carpet, the dickie?

It turns out it was one of their trusted servants who was trying to frame poor Duncan. Oh, don't tell me. The butler did it? No, he just thought of it. He made the maid do it. Now, I've got a little bit of a deep dive here. Oh. Because I, like you, searched Duncan Osgood. I wanted to see if there was, like, a case that this Duncan Osgood case was based on. I'm a true crime girly, just as everybody knows. Right. So it wasn't based on a case. Yeah. But there was a murder in Palm Beach the very week this episode aired. Oh.

The very weekend I just got goosebumps. I know. And there was evidence in the case last year that got the case reopened. Oh, my God. So the Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office said the remains of an unknown man were discovered nearly four decades ago on January 12th, 1986 in Palm Beach County. That is one week to the day before this episode aired. It wasn't until December 27th, 2023, that they were able to identify this man using genetic genealogy. That was 39 years later. He was identified as Terry Ketron.

Authorities got in touch with Terry's family. The authorities learned he moved to Palm Beach in the early 1980s with a woman named Connie or Bonnie with an unknown last name. And at some point in early 1986, Terry told his family over the phone that he was having problems with his girlfriend and her family members. And after that call, Terry's family never heard from him again and his whereabouts were unknown for decades.

In an update from 2023, detectives said they were looking for a man. And so this was in a local paper from the area. They were looking for a man and a woman who are photographed with Terry on a pier. And you see the actual photograph. So like that's probably the girlfriend and maybe the family member that she was having a hard time with. They shared the photo with the press and said the identities and location of the photo are unknown other than Terry. But the two may know something about his disappearance and death. And I have a Google alert set for this case. Oh.

Wild, right? Yes. Palm Beach County murder. And this all happened. Oh, my gosh. The murder happened one week before this episode aired. Oh, I predict this will be solved. And you and Jillian will be doing an episode on the documentary about it. I mean, honestly, right? Like, so interesting. Yeah. Thank you for the good job. Thank you. So back to the episode. Kirsten Ensor. Wearing a lovely pink Angora sweater. And once again, I do not care for her attitude. No.

I do not care for it. I know. I know. She says, like, good morning to Dorothy. They're having pleasantries. And Dorothy's saying, your mom's been looking for you. Kirsten says she's been to the airline office changing our tickets. We're leaving this afternoon. Can you imagine a day? Like, I just was traveling for my other podcast. And we had a travel nightmare. We had to change all of our flights. Can you imagine having to go into the airline office? I know. Yes. I'm just doing it on my phone at a bar. Right. But also just the disproportionate response. Right.

You know? But that's what I'm saying. Lord in heaven. She finds out that there's no money, doesn't ask a single question, doesn't ask her mom if she's okay. Remember when I stormed out mad last night? Maybe we should sit down and talk about it. No, I'm just going to go to the airline office and change my flight and go home and never speak to you again. That's what it sounds like. You old bitch.

Oh, my God. But I'm like showing no concern for her mother. Also, you thought she was loaded and now she doesn't have a penny to her name. Do you want to help your mom out a little bit? I know. Exactly. And just real quick, Dorothy says that Charlie's out on the lanai. Sophia's helping her put her Barbie's hair back on with poly grip. And like we get a little smirky smile out of Kirsten. She's not completely emotionless. But Rose comes in. Oh, Kirsten, you're back. I want to talk to you. And she says...

Not now, Mother. I promised Charlie I'd take her to lunch and then we have to pack. We're leaving early. Now? It's important. Mother, there's nothing to talk about. Oh, yes, there is. And I should have done it a long time ago. And that was the moment that I, like, you could really see their relationship. That, like, growing up, Rose was maybe a little bit of a breezy mom, kind of a pushover, always had the snack ready after school. We learned that in another episode. The BLT. Oh, my God. Mashed potatoes. I've never been so hungry in my life. He's chocolate cake.

But when Rose needed the kids to do what she needed them to do, you can hear the authority in her voice. Right. Which I thought was important. It was, but Kirsten pushes back. And parenthetically, I want to tell you what I have here. She says, mother, there's nothing to talk about. I have bitch. Like, what a bitch to her mother. Also, like, do you think that they were raised in a house where Rose made them call her mother?

mother. Well, that's the thing. But coming up, when she softens and quote unquote forgives her mother, she calls her mom. You're right. That's true. That's something I caught. Good job, Beaver. Beaver and Samard. I caught that.

You did. I'm not as dumb as I look. You're not just pretty. They sit down. She's like, Kirsten, your father wasn't who you thought he was. I know why you're laughing. Oh, God. My faith is so good. You love it so much. I'll lead you in. Dorothy says, oh, I don't think it's necessary for all of us to be here. She gets up to go to the bedroom. As she's walking away, Blanche waves at her back and says, You're right. Bye, Dorothy. Bye.

You're right. Bye, Dorothy. Like, she's lost the trial. She's got nothing. Like, she is totally leaning in. She just took it literally. We don't all need it. All of us. You're right. All of us don't. So you go. If Dorothy leaves, then Blanche gets more of the tea. That's right. You know what I mean? That's right. It was so well, like the look on her, she can't believe she's going to get the tea. She's so excited. And something happens

that we don't think will happen. Rose says, no, don't go. No, I want you all to hear this. So she says, she indicates to stay. Right. And she tells the room, I lied about the money. I didn't squander it on bad investments. I couldn't have. He didn't leave me any to begin with. And like, I'm looking at the ticker on the episode. We've got like a minute and 38 seconds. I'm like, how are we going to wrap this up?

Kirsten all of a sudden is softening. She's like, what are you telling me? And this is where Rose says all of the right things. Like your father was a wonderful man, kind and warm and caring, never willing to let a friend or a neighbor struggle through hard times, meaning he gave his money away when he needed to. He didn't. It wasn't about the material and service, you know, acts of service, I'm sure. Exactly. But he was the worst businessman to ever balance a checkbook.

And I said, poor Charlie is a businessman like me, but without a Steve Tipton to actually make sure things kept up. Oh, right. You know? And Kirsten says, but you always told us how successful daddy was. And this is, we get a great lesson here on what is the definition of success? Yes. He was a success as a human being, but his work took him away so much. I was afraid you wouldn't know that. That's why I made him into something he wasn't. I guess maybe I was afraid you'd think he was a failure. Yeah.

I never thought of him as a failure. I hope I never let him feel like one. If I did, I can only pray that he forgives me now.

You know, she's saying that, like, I built him up to you because he traveled a lot and we didn't have a lot of money, but he was working so hard. And the time away from you, I wanted you to think that it was worth it. She did it all out of love and the right reasons. Yeah, which is why when Charlie, the granddaughter, says he worked very hard and was very, very rich. I think in Rose's mind, she's saying, wait, all you know is that he wasn't around a lot.

He worked very hard, meaning he traveled a lot. Yeah, they didn't get a lot of time with him. Right, and that he cared more about money than time with the kids. Right. And I think maybe that's the thing that Rose couldn't live with them thinking. Yeah, exactly. You know? And to your point, a minute, 38 seconds left. Yeah. Kirsten says, oh, mom. Ha ha ha ha!

All is forgiven, mom. Come on. Let's go find Charlie and take her to lunch. And what we've seen to this point, up to this point, well, it's like that thing that poor David, Blanche's grandson, had to do where they do have to make these lightning fast transitions because it's a 23-minute show. And it's like the bottom fell out of Kirsten's future plans. Like she thought she was going to be a millionaire in a couple years. Right. Because the Kirsten we've met to this point, I'm sure is like, well, I'm still getting on that plane. Right. I'm still getting on that plane.

I went through all the trouble. I had to wait in line at the office for 15 hours to change the flight. My whole life. You've been lying to me my whole life. Wow. I know. I know. No, it's really true. I don't forgive you, mom. No. Charlie, get your coat. Get your coat. We're getting out of here. Oh, no.

Let me leave. Anyway, she forgives her. Well, Blanche is disappointed to find out that the big secret is that Charlie was a nice guy. She wanted blood and guts and drama. Blanche. She said, you know, Dorothy's like, I'm sorry it lacked the intrigue of the Duncan Osgood case. You know, in the end, Blanche is like, it's amazing how things always work out. Now Rose and her daughter have reconciled their differences and Duncan Osgood can walk the streets of Freeman. I guess all's well that ends well. And Dot says, that's easy for you to say. You're not at the bottom of a lake clutching someone's dickie. Now,

Funny line to end on. But I felt sort of a character inconsistency here because I feel like if Blanche knew that this man was now single and rich and his wife is dead, she'd be cruising the streets of Palm Beach trying to find this guy. Yeah. You know what I mean? I do. That would have been a funnier ending if she had jumped up and run out the door and tried to track down Duncan Osgood. Yeah. No, you know, the Beeve definitely wanted to end on a joke, which they got. Totally.

Endings are tough. It's really good. You know, speaking of tough endings, I want to do the deep dive here on the actress Bridget Anderson. Oh, please do. Who played Charlie. And I saved this for the end for a reason because it's a little sad. But, you know, she was born on July 11th, 1975 in Inglewood, California, which is part of Los Angeles. She has a sister and two brothers. And it seemed like her parents really wanted their kids to be in the business like from a young age. Her younger sister, Angelica, was in a Bank of America commercial and a commercial for a department store called Mervyn's when she was just a

But it was Bridget who was the breakout of the family at four years old. She was, quote, modeling, whatever that means for a four-year-old, and acting in TV ads and appearing in TV shows like King's Crossing and Washington Mistress. But as I mentioned earlier, she got her big break at age seven in 1982 when she was cast in the title role in the film Savannah Smiles, which I remember watching this movie. Yeah. Yeah.

It's a film about a little girl who runs away from home and eventually is taken in and cared for by two escaped convicts. Later in 1982, she was cast as young Mae West in the TV biopic Mae West. I remember that. I saw her then because I saw that. Amazing. In her preteen years, she had a lot of success. She guested on a bunch of TV shows and she was four times nominated for a Youth in Film Awards, which apparently is an award they used to give out. Wow.

And then when she became a teenager, she just wasn't getting work. She did the Golden Girls when she was 11, and she only has five more credits on IMDb after that. Her last credit, it's not even on IMDb, she's in a non-speaking role in a Super Bowl Pepsi ad in 1996.

And then tragically, on May 18th, 1997, she died of an accidental overdose of a combination of alcohol and heroin. She was 21. Heroin. You know, and the actress Amber Tamblyn has written several books of poetry about women in Hollywood who have died too young. And she wrote a poem about this girl. Jeez, Louise. Like, I'm thinking back to you said her big break.

Happened at seven. At seven years old. That's got to be really difficult when you go through puberty and the work dries up. I mean, it's happened to countless child actors. And you're nominated for all these awards and all of a sudden you just can't get any work. Right, right, right. You know, Daisy, for a minute when she was like real little, when she was about four actually, she got scouted by a major modeling agency. And she's

like at four, Daisy made it very clear she had absolutely no interest. She just didn't, did not want to do it. Good. And we're like, great. Thank God. Thank God. I love that. Yeah, yeah. So anyway, Cheesecakes, thank you for listening. It's already ended on a bummer, but we're not really ending on a bummer because we are going to take a quick little break and we're going to come back and you're going to do the deep dive today.

I'm going to do the deep dive. And remember when Sweet Charlie was doing all the, you know, Rose says, I'm going to do your makeup. Well, we're going to do your makeup, Cheesecakes. Here we go. It's the hair and makeup. And, you know, we're like, the way these things work, they're not always linear. So I've already heard this deep dive and I can tell you, Cheesecakes, it's fascinating. Yeah, I like it. I'm so excited.

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The glasses are the same. No, I pulled out one of my own wigs, the closest one I had to a rose, and brought it in. I brought a nice pink lip because I always have a nice pink lip. Uh-huh. Do you know what I realized? So, Cheesecakes, you can't see me over here, but I'm wearing this cute blonde wig. My lips are pink.

Do you know who I look like? I look like the Kelly shoes guy. Remember that shoes? Oh my God, shoes. Oh my God, shoes. Get thee to the Instagram because you gotta, you gotta look at this. You are gorgeous. I forgot too that you had facial hair. I did bring pink blush. I'm like, you know what? Purple eye shadow is good enough. Good enough.

Oh, my goodness. Well, what are we talking about? Well, this is a deep dive on the makeup and hair. We talk about it a lot. And we're like, let's just go in a little bit. Absolutely. I'm not taking the wig off. I'm keeping it on for the whole thing. No, that's why I brought it. Okay, good. This is officially my audition for Audrey in Little Shop. You know, I wouldn't do it if you didn't have it on. She was like, I will leave. I will walk out. I will walk out. Yeah. She's real difficult. All right. I'm just kidding. You're not difficult at all. They know. They know. They know.

They've got my energy. So let me tell you, there's three makeup artists credited with the Golden Girls. For the whole series. For the whole series. All right. Maurice Stein, he did 99 episodes between 1985 and 1989. He did the most. Art Harding, 76 episodes between 85 and 92. Wow. And poor old Tommy Cole, one episode, 1987. It didn't go great. I'm guessing it didn't go great. He did the look I'm wearing right now. My work is perfect.

He did a whole circle around his head as if it was something wrong with his look. No, no, no. What I meant was he did a great job. He was too good for them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's it. That's got to be it. Yeah. Since Maury Stein is coming in hot with the most episodes at 99, I wanted to start with him. Yeah. Okay. There's a lot of information about him in terms of his background, but he designed Barbra Streisand's look for the film Funny Girl. Whoa. Did you know that? No. I'm telling you.

deep dive. You're outgaying me in the deep dive. He was also a member of the Academy Award winning makeup team for Planet of the Apes. Oh, that was like legendary. That was like transformative. Really good, right? Yeah. And he did, of course, create Estelle Getty's old age makeup for the series. Okay. So his general philosophy about makeup, he's quoted as saying he's not a magician, he's an illusionist. I love it. That the essential trick for

camera work is this. Quote, everything looks bigger on screen. If one has a large nose, lips, hips, they will all look enormous. Oh. So he says, my job is basically the illusion of slenderizing. So he says they use two basic words for that, highlights and shadow. Anything you want to pull

want to pull out, you highlight. Anything you want to pull back, you shadow. Many people, he says, we're going to be amazed at the normalcy of Hollywood faces. And that is true. Like if you see a famous person, you're like, oh, they look so small or thin. Or like not stunningly beautiful. Right, right. They usually have basic structure to work with, but the tricks of the trade go a long way to create what you see on screen. That is wild.

And I actually don't mean this as a diss at all. And it's hard to say this without sounding like that. But I remember in 2003 running into Angelina Jolie, seeing, running into her, like I know I saw her at the bar, saw her at a bar at 73rd and Columbus. And she was meeting her brother. And, you know, she was so slight. Yes. Like maybe 5'6".

And just obviously a beautiful young woman, but such a normal, plain beauty. Yes. As opposed to, my God, those eyes, those lips, they just look so doe-like and enormous. I was like a bartender for 15 years and I met her once through bartending. And I would see a lot of famous people through bartending and they always look like normal people when they're out in the world. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

So he was called out. Maurice Stein was called out of retirement to work on the Golden Girls. Oh, wow. He reluctantly agreed to do the makeup for the first episode of the show. And he didn't even know the title of the show at this point. But the offer they kept making him kept getting better and better. For instance, they told him he only needed to come in on Fridays after 2 p.m. Wow.

Whoa. You know, they film sitcoms, for those of you who don't know, on a Friday night. Yeah. Right? So he didn't have to be there earlier in the week. So he would come in. He's like, wait a minute, I'm going to go to week salary for a shortened day. Sounded like a good gig, right? Yeah. So he decided he would stay and do one season of the new show, Golden Girls. And of course, he ended up doing more than anybody. Wow. Yeah. So it turned into six years and became...

you know, this popular, popular show. So here's something interesting. The Golden Girls wanted, the producers of the show, one reason they wanted Stein was they knew that he could probably figure out how to shorten the time it was taking to do Estelle Getty's makeup. Oh, was it taking like a super long time? It was taking a really long time. So it became clear that certain things had to change once it became clear that the show was a hit. Yeah. So the prevailing old age makeup technique at the time was a process called stretch and stipple. Oh.

I did that this morning. Thank you very much. Oh, my God. Those were our names at the strip club. Stretch and Stipple. But yes, to answer your question specifically, because we're there, it took over four hours to do this. Wow. And Maurice remembers Estelle actually saying, yeah, and an hour and a half and a couple of vodkas to take off. Oh.

So the technique is... I love knowing that she was a drinker. Right? I've never heard that before either. I know. So in this technique, they use this ultra-thin latex to areas of the skin that are stretched in specific directions. And then baby powder is applied to each area after the final coat dries so that the wrinkles don't stick together.

And the baby powder is removed with a damp brush at the end. So each week, stretch and stipple added up to five or six hours of expensive production time, you know, and an extra headache for Estelle. Yeah. So he had in his retirement time, he'd invented a new makeup product. This was new waterproof, oil-free foundation.

So instead of putting her through this, you know, four hour time consuming application, blow drying and powdering the layers, Maurice was able to cover her face. They call it several strata of fast drying foundation and followed by accentuating her natural wrinkles with a makeup.

pencil. And then I didn't know this. Maybe you did. I didn't. But she had a facelift between seasons one and two. No. Creating those lines like anew. Oh, wow. I know. So according to Stein, I kind of love this little dishy. According to him, Getty's makeup completely transformed her into character. While Getty agrees that Stein is the best, she disagrees, of course, that her makeup transformed her. She's like, I'm the artist. I would agree with her. Yeah.

Sure, I mean, it probably helps pull the illusion together. You know what I mean? If you're going to sound like an old person, you're going to be more believable as an old person when you are in makeup. And undoubtedly, her later look is better than the initial look on the show. Well, remember, we criticized the pilot. It was too much. It was like, it was... It looked...

Yeah. And we'll get there when we talk about the hair, too. But here's a little information on Art Harding. There's not as much background on him. And there's certainly absolutely nothing on good old one episode Tommy Cole. But Art Harding. Who died in prison. When Princess Diana threw him. No, that's just for us. That's a different episode. So Art Harding, even though there's not a lot of information, he recently did a Golden Girls Insider live show. Oh.

Where he is quoted as saying, there were no divas. He says, I know sometimes they didn't get along. There were some tough relationships, but they were always professional on the set. They always knew their lines and they were always ready to roll. I mean, and you can sort of tell that, right? Like, it seems like that was not the issue. Yeah, you didn't. I didn't. That really didn't come off on camera. Yeah. How's that wig for you? It's getting very itchy over here. Why don't you take it off?

Can I take it off? Yeah, take it off. Now I'll just have the lipstick on? Yeah. Okay. Oh, goodness gracious. Oh, beautiful. You look like Brad Pitt. I think I look kind of cute back with my normal hair and like the bright pink lip. It kind of pops. Yeah, it totally pops.

All right. So I just want to move on to some hair here. Yeah. OK, so here's some hairstyling credit. So Joyce Conroy was a hairstylist on one hundred and fifty two episodes, the most from eighty five to ninety one. And then Paulette Pennington was another hairstylist. Twenty three episodes in the latter part of the series. Ninety one to ninety two.

Wow. So let's get talking about Estelle's painted gray wig. Yeah. Because that was the thing. So in the early episodes of season one, as we know, Estelle's hair was merely sprayed gray because that's something she did herself to try to get the job at one of her many auditions. It wasn't a wig at first. It was like her hair spray. Right. Her hair. Yeah. Painted. Painted.

But because it was an enduring hit, just like the makeup, it became obvious that they had to change this. And so the producers commissioned Sofia's trademark and expensive curly white human hair wig. All right. Now, the easiest way to really get

a great wig is to have it custom made. And I know that just from the stage life that I do. They take a mold of your head. They trace the hairlines. So in a lot of photos, it looks completely natural and you can't really see it because you can really tell a bad wig. For sure. Yeah. But custom wigs are huge, you know, line item budgets.

They really are. There's like quotes anywhere from being 6,000 to 12,000. One quote, 8,000 to 15,000. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it really depends a lot on the length of the wig and the color of the wig as well. So one interesting thing to note is how Blanche Sophia and Rose's hair changed or didn't change. Yeah.

in the seasons, the seven seasons of The Golden Girls. Do you have a question? Well, I was just thinking, like, it doesn't look like Blanche, Rose, and Dorothy wear wigs. Do they? Or is it natural hair? No, it's natural hair. Yeah. And it says here, too, like, Betty White's hair stayed practically the same. Yeah, yeah. Like cotton candy, right? During the entire series. So if you want to use her as a guide to what season you're watching, good luck, right? Yeah.

Now, Estelle Getty definitely wore different wigs, as we just talked about. And Ru basically did what she wanted with her hair because she was a fashion boss, right? Oh, I love it. I actually love her hair in the screenshot if you go to the Golden Palace. Oh, yeah. Her hair is beautiful. It's just that kind of feathered back.

And I gotta tell you, like, the dyeing of the hair really kept her young looking. Yeah. You know? And it was a really pretty color, too. Yeah. And a real color looking, you know? Like, it looked like it could be real, her real hair color. And Dorothy's hair, of course, was the exception. That changed from season to season. So she's sort of the best person, if you have a well-trained eye, to determine which season you're watching. I can, like, see season seven Dorothy hair. Like, I can see it. But Bea was like, you know, I don't have time for the constant hair changes. So she said, pick one style per season and she'll stick with it.

it for 20 plus episodes because she was like I'm BFF and Arthur and I run this. Now here's an interesting rumor. There was a rumor that B brought in her own stylist. And so the rumor basically says that like Rue is rumored was saying that in this commentary on the Golden Girls DVD that B brought in a stylist with her from a project

that she did from a film that she did called My First Love. It was between seasons three and four. And that hair and makeup artist wanted to give Bea different looks than what she had on the Golden Girls, like more gentle and more feminine. So they combed her hair down over like her ears as opposed to the back. Yes. Right? And they sort of softened the tones of her makeup. Look, this is a major shift. I remember like it really did soften her...

It really did. And so Bea loved it. And so the makeup and hair artist was hired at Bea's insistence for Golden Girls. And that's the rumor there. So that's our little ditty. That's our little deep dive on the hair and makeup. Oh, I love it. It's so interesting. Well, thanks for the ditty, Jay, Jennifer. I called you Jay. That was so interesting.

P&J. Oh my God. Peanut butter and jelly. Peanut butter and jelly. Cheesecakes, we love you so much. Listen, once again, head over to iTunes, leave us a review, head over to Spotify. It makes such a big difference. Just click on that thing that says rate and review. Join our Facebook group. The Golden Girls Deep Dive Podcast Discussion Group. You did it. Come to

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