That Was No Lady (Season 1, Episode 14)
01:24:35 Share

Girl, NoCD is a new sponsor. And look, I want to talk about something kind of serious here, something that usually gets a laugh line, but can be really serious, which is obsessive compulsive disorder or OCD as it's called. Yeah. And I have OCD myself, so I know firsthand. Yeah. And I'm happy to share that. I really do believe in mental health that one person raises their hand and then another and another. And that's how you destigmatize things. That's how you get healthy. To soothe my own anxiety, I need to count sometimes to the number eight or

Even numbers I found very soothing. Oh, wow. Or certain colors. And I would have to do that to calm my anxiety. And, you know, a lot of people just think it's about being neat. That's not it in its entirety. Because they say that OCD can latch onto anything, but it often focuses on the things we care about most, right? Our relationships, religious beliefs, our hobbies, our passions.

But you know, OCD is highly treatable, but it needs specialized treatment. Okay, tell me more. So NoCD is a virtual therapy provider for OCD that makes getting specialized therapy easier than ever. I like things that are easier than ever because I don't have a lot of time. That's how I was described in college.

Well, with NoCD, you can do live face-to-face video therapy with licensed therapists who specialize in OCD. And I love that, you know, someone who really knows their field and can really help you. Yes. So these NoCD therapists, they receive in-depth specialized training in exposure and response prevention, or ERP as it's known, which is a type of therapy that was designed specifically to treat OCD. Right. And let's get to the bottom line here. NoCD accepts many different types of therapy.

major insurance plans. Oh, my life changer. Yeah. And it offers always on support between sessions. OK, so you can message your therapist. There's therapy tools. There's peer committee support groups. And I find that really, really helpful. So if you think you might be struggling with OCD and want to learn more about therapy with NoCD, go to NoCD.com and schedule a free 15 minute call with their team. That's NoCD.com to learn more and book a free 15 minute call.

Oh, could be life changing. You know what? Therapy is always life changing. Truly. You know, it's self-care. So do it. Please. Do you catch yourself tossing and turning all night and feeling exhausted when it's time to get up? Instead of reaching for that second cup of coffee, you should be tackling the problem at the source.

Your mattress. But with a Purple mattress, those problems are a thing of the past. Purple's flexible structure rebound with every movement, conforming to the curves of your body with no lag time or sinking stuck sensation like with memory foam. What places Purple a step above your average mattress? The GelFlex Grid. Their patented material delivers a sleep experience unlike any other, all thanks to its unique calm structure.

Beneath the concentrated weight of pressure points like shoulders and hips, the flexible structure buckles to create cradling made for you comfort. Simultaneously, beneath broad surfaces such as your back and legs, the columns maintain their integrity, providing total support and alignment. Hello, 40% less pain. And with over 114,000 five-star reviews, you know it's good. Visit purple.com to find the perfect purple for you and enter code podcast10 to get 10% off.

Hi, Jennifer Simard. Hi, Patrick Hines, Papa. Mother Cheesecake, thank you for meeting me back here in the studio. You look ravishing today. I do. It's just like a, just a collared blue shirt. Tell them what I'm doing. I'm drinking a beer. Yes, I brought, it's,

It's so humid in New York City today. I know, I know. And I always like to keep a stash of non-alcoholic beer because they're really flavorful and they taste like real beer. It's true. There's one that I love and now I can't remember what it's called, but I used to stock my fridge with these non-alcoholic beers. And this is a non-alcoholic beer cheesecake. And it's really good. It's a Stella Artois Liberté. Liberté. You're welcome for the free ad, but it's really good. And I just love seeing you chug a beer. Oh yeah, this is like not an ad. Hashtag not an ad. Hashtag not an ad. Cheesecakes, can I ask you kindly to join the Facebook group? What?

Jen, can you stumble through what the Facebook group is called? Oh God, okay. I'm gonna, I can do it. Golden Girls Deep Dive Podcast Discussion Group. You nailed it. I did it. You did it. I'm always inverting a word, everybody. It's just never gonna roll off the tongue. It's what I keep saying. It's where you can go to like make friends, be part of this community. I really want to build this community. Someday when Jen isn't like the most famous as she is right now and doing like the most fancy Broadway show, we're going to be able to go on tour and that's where you're going to be able to learn about that.

That'll be fun. Maybe we'll do a meetup at some point. And it's just a great place to make friends. And I also love, because I'm new to the Facebook group, I wasn't sure if it was just going to be about what we do every week. But what I love, it's like, for example, yesterday, I posted a picture of this potpourri that I simmer on my stove. Oh my God. It's just about life. It's about life. And I love just posting pictures of the family and my daughter. And we'll be at the dog park. But I also love to

talking about the Golden Girls. It's just a very safe, fun place online to come and hang out. Emphasis on safe. Yeah. Oh, and this is the part where we tell you that we do deep dives at the end of every recap episode. So today you're doing the deep dive. What are you doing the deep dive on? Well, I don't want to tell you too much because it's too juicy McJuicerstein. But basically, I am doing a deep dive on the actor who plays

Oh, the actor in this episode. The actor in this episode. Who plays Glenn? There's enough there. His name is Alex Brokaw. Okay. And there is, in fact, enough there. Oh my goodness gracious. Okay, I can't wait. Shall we get to it? Let's get into it. All right, girl, what is the episode we're doing today? It's episode 14, That Was No Lady. Ha ha ha.

It aired December 21st, 1985. It was written by Liz Sage and directed by Jim Drake. So can we do some current events that are going on in the world at the time? Yeah. So number one on the Billboard chart was a song by Lionel Richie. Oh, God. Say you, say me, say it for always. That's the way it should be. I love Lionel Richie. Why don't you marry Lionel Richie? You know what? I don't think he'd have me.

You know, I did a little bit of a deep dive because the movie version of A Chorus Line opened this week. The week this episode aired, A Chorus Line opened at the box office. And I just did a little deep dive because I knew it was kind of famously like a flop, whereas the Broadway show was like a huge, massive cultural phenomenon. So the original Broadway show is one of the most successful.

Mm-hmm.

hugely successful. It's still the seventh longest running Broadway show of all time. It opened in 1975 and closed in 1990. I mean, I mean that spread of those years, like I could tell you that it was like over 6,000 performances, but that doesn't sound nearly as long as like 75, which is before I was born to 1990 when I was in high school.

Isn't that wild? That's a long time. So the movie version was a major flop, despite the fact the original Broadway show was like such a huge success. The director of the Broadway show, Michael Bennett, was originally hired as the director producer, but then turned down the job when his concept for the film was rejected. Now, I thought it was going to be ridiculous, but I kind of like this. His concept was to turn it into a story about dancers auditioning for the film version of A Chorus Line. Oh, I like that. The Broadway show was so sick.

as it was in real life. Now we're going to make a movie and the movie version is the dancers auditioning for the movie. But the producers and the studio didn't want that. They wanted more of like a straight up adaptation. And Michael Bennett was like, well, then you can't have me. So he bowed out. I think he won that fight. I think he definitely won that fight. Apparently, Madonna auditioned in person at the Royal Theater, which is now the Jacobs Theater, where they held the auditions for the movie. She auditioned

incognito she went just by her last name Ciccone for her dance audition and she did not book it oh wow I just love that it was at the Jacobs that's where I did Company oh that's right yes oh my gosh I love like do Broadway shows still audition at the Broadway theater where the shows are gonna be um

I can't say a blanket no, but typically no. I know that I did that once when Grease was on Broadway. Oh, really? Uh-huh. This was way back in 93, I think. And you auditioned for Grease, like, on the stage? On the stage, yeah. I mean, that's, like, the romantic idea of what it's like to audition for a Broadway show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it lost its magic. The critics hated it. It only made $14 million, and it currently has a 48% on Rotten Tomatoes. Ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Well, speaking of films, also on December 16th in this week, the Color Purple film premiered here in New York. Oh, wow. And here's one small piece of trivia. It still holds the record for receiving the most Academy Award nominations, which was 11, without a win. Oh, my God. Really? Yeah, they didn't win. Can I tell a quick story about the Color Purple? Yeah. Oprah Winfrey famously is in the Color Purple, and it was before her show. And she says she has a story about going to Steven Spielberg and saying, like, my name isn't supposed to be on the poster, but I have this, like, show starting in the fall that I

I think it's going to be really popular. And he's like, sorry, we're still not putting your name on the poster. Steven Spielberg. Well, she won that fight.

All right. So shall we jump into the action of the episode? Yes, let's do it. It opens with Rose and Sophia playing a game on the limai. First of all, what is the game they're playing? Do we know? I looked it up and I couldn't find an accurate answer. Someone gave some odd answer and I was like, and it doesn't look like that at all. But basically, it's a trivia game. Oh. And if any of you cheesecakes recognize the board game, do let us know. Please let us know. Because I looked. I was like, girl, Rose, this is a dangerous place.

We know that Sophia will, like, do anything to win a game. She's good at all the games. She's going to smash that popcorn. Now you've got popcorn dust.

But Rose could be like the perfect stooge to play again. Because like, you know, Rose is just going to go along. She doesn't care about winning. She's just there to like to be social. But she does care about winning and bowling. She's too competitive. We found out in the bowling episode how layered she was. Because she became unhinged in that episode. She becomes completely unhinged in this episode as well for a different reason. For a totally different reason. The last thing I noticed was that

I don't know what time of day it is, but I'm thinking it's like happy hour o'clock. Oh, it's in the evening. It's dark. It's dark out. It looks like Sophia's drinking a glass of milk and she's having like a glass of lemonade. And I'm like, girls, can we have a cocktail? Well, I saw a pitcher of lemonade. So maybe there's a little vodka in it. I noticed because Dorothy comes in eventually and pours herself a glass of lemonade. And I was like, please let it be spiked. Like, girls, have a drink.

Just please. Don't have a non-alcoholic beer like Patrick is drinking right now. I'm drinking a non-alcoholic beer cheesecake. It is going down. But I'm just like, wheel out that bar cart, have a cocktail. Please, loosen up. Anyway, some sort of trivia game. And it's Sophia's turn. And Rose reads her the following question. Who was known as the world's fastest human being? Dominic Tanzi. It says Jesse Owens here. Trust me, it was Dominic Tanzi. He got four women pregnant in one night.

Two in New York, two in New Jersey. But this was a really interesting thing. I was able to do like a Jesse Owens deep dive a little bit. Yeah. Really, really interesting and important figure. So Jesse Owens in the 1936 Olympics won four gold medals. This was in Berlin. He set three world records and tied another...

All in 45 minutes. I mean, and it's kind of significant because we're recording this during the Paris Olympics. That's right. It's happening right now. We're getting ahead of track and field is not till next week. Oh, is that right? My husband will not tear his damn self away from the Olympics. Why don't I care about the Olympics like a good gay? I don't know. And now I have to leave. I have to leave. Papa, I'm out. Thank you for coming in, Mother Cheesecake. But the thing is, Jesse Owens was the world record holder of the men's 100 meter dash forever.

80 years. When he broke the world record, he could run 21.7 miles per hour. Owens was the most successful athlete at those Olympic Games and as a black American man, was credited with single-handedly crushing Hitler's myth of the Aryan supremacy. How amazing is that? That is just like the

perfect ending in a villain movie where you know who beat you and you know how they did it. You know, and there he is, Jesse Owens, just right in his face. Right in Hitler's face. In Jesse Owens' lifetime, he was the greatest and most famous athlete in track and field history. And today, the Jesse Owens Award is USA Track and Field's highest accolade for the year's best track and field athlete. I want the Jesse Owens Award. We got to get real good at shot put, girl. Aren't you? You're running like a 5K every day. I do run a 5K.

I do it pretty slowly. I am certainly not doing 21.7 miles per hour. Jeez Louise. So anyway, we're back on the lanai. Blanche enters. She's very excited. She's very excited. She tells them about her plans to buy a new car as long as she can sell her old one or she says it unloaded. Girls, I am so excited. I am finally going to do something you've heard me talk about doing for years. You decided to install a trapeze over your bed.

No, actually, I'm talking about this car. And Blanche pauses to think about it. And the audience doesn't get it. I know. Happens sometimes. I know. And it's so good. I know. But think about it. We're getting a close-up at home with a camera. You're right. And the studio audience is far away. You're right. That's why. I have the same note. Blanche really considers it. Yeah. And so that's a joke that's for the camera. Totally. And it's really, really fun. And I love that they don't do an artificial laugh track. I love that it's real. Me too. Me too. So, Blanche.

Blanche's whole thing, like you said, is she's trying to decide if she can afford the car. The only way she can afford the car is if she sells the car she currently has. Right. And I was thinking they never say what kind of car Blanche currently has and what kind of car she's looking to buy. But I'm like, you know, they're both slutty sports cars. They have to be. I don't know.

about that or if they have one car for the household because we see Dorothy drive up in this episode and just like a four-door sedan like a boat like you know it's my favorite I'm just thinking like if Blanche is so excited to get this car it's got to be sexy in some way you know like a Carmen Ghia

Exactly. Exactly. But Sophia says, Rose, you need a car. Why don't you buy it? And here we're going to skip this, folks, because it's a horrific joke. Yes. And they try to save it, but it's far too late. The damage is done. At the end of the day, what's being said here is that Lance doesn't want to sell the car to Rose because they're friends and you should never like have that kind of business transaction with a friend. Correct. We'll just leave it at that. We'll leave it at that. But, you know, Rose is saying, Oh, I couldn't buy your car. Oh, it's not my type. I want a car that says practical.

Your car says available. Well, just take off my personalized plates. Because you know Rose drives a Subaru, right? Oh yeah, something real safe. Real safe, real, it's like a Volvo, very reliable. Volvo, yeah, I would say she drives a Volvo. But I want to also say, I agree with this, sort of like, don't sell a major appliance to your friend who's also your roommate. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because you know what's always going to happen, like she's going to come home and complain about the noises and the sounds. But that's a learned skill. Like you either have to have a,

A friend who's had that experience or you've had to learn that experience yourself, I think. These ladies are in their 50s. They've learned it by now. You're right. Yeah. You know that Rose's husband, you know, Charlie sold a tractor to some, you know, on the farm. Yeah. Like a transaction that did not go well. Agreed. You know. You know, Blanche says, too, what Rose says about, you know, her car staying available. Blanche says, well, just take off my personalized plates. Okay.

I wrote, I really want to know that Blanche's plates actually say slut puppy. I know. That's what Sophia eventually called her. Well, it must be in a briefs, as you would say, for available. Yeah. A, B, B, L, E or whatever. Or I would love it if they just said bed. What would your vanity plate say if you drove a car? What would it say? You don't understand. I'm so mortified right now. Why do you have a vanity plate? My first car that I bought, I got a vanity plate. Tell me everything, girl. Tell me everything. It was a light blue Chevy Chevette. Oh, my God. And it was.

This plate said A-C-T-R-E-S-1-S because it couldn't have two. That is...

Like, that is so good. I was 19. And now, of course, that I am an actress, I would never have that. Of course. It'd be like you wearing your, like, Debbie Comfort show jacket walking down 9th Avenue. Which I would hate. Can you explain to me what happens when the gays stop you on 9th Avenue? Like, what's the reaction? What do they say to you? Oh, they're just like, I'm sorry, Jennifer Smart, I love you. I love your work. And then they're always very nice. And I say, thank you so much. And then I'll usually offer to take a selfie with them. That is

So nice. Yeah, it's really an honor. Oh, I love you so much. If I'm ever on Ninth Avenue having lunch and I see you walking, that's exactly what I'm going to do. And I'm going to ignore you. Sorry, I'm just trying to live is what I want you to scream at me. Anyway, Blanche has wrote, take the car for two weeks. Just try it out. If you don't absolutely love it, I'll take it back. No questions asked. She's now dangling the keys. We both did that at the same time. What I think is really funny about that is like in this franchise,

friend group, everybody wonders what it's like to be Blanche. Like, there's no way Dorothy, even Sophia, they all want a little bit of what Blanche has. Yeah. And I'm like, this is an opportunity for Rose to experience what it's like for Blanche, like Blanche's sexy car. Take a walk on the wild side. Totally. And you can kind of see it in Rose's eyes. Like, the mere idea of, like, walking in Blanche's shoes for, like, a couple weeks is very exciting to her. So what the heck?

You only live once. Might as well be daring. And then Sophia says, Rose, it's a used car, not a seat on the space shuttle. But driving home the point that, like, Rose is really excited to get to try it out. Like, it's one way of, like, living like Blanche for a week. I think that's a good point. You know? Speaking of space shuttle, though, Dorothy enters wearing that space shuttle sweater from the Starship Enterprise from...

Previous episode, the gray and purple number. Oh, I wrote, she's wearing another purple sweater. And this one isn't hideous. The same one, though. It's a repeat sweater. I love that Dorothy is recycling her clothes, always. Well, and just listen to that episode of TCO and the importance of buying less and recycling clothes. Listen, it was the Brandy Hellville documentary that we covered. And what you can do, Cheesecakes, to decrease your environmental footprint, buy less. Buy less. And wear what you have. So they were ahead of the curve, is what I'm trying to say. Yeah.

Environmental activist from the beginning. So Dorothy comes in with five. Hello, hello, hello, hello. My note right here is Dorothy enters. And I'm sorry, Jen, you just have to do it. Oh, I did it. I know it was so perfect. Dorothy is really excited for she has news. Hello, hello, hello, hello, hello. Blanche, I need you to give me a manicure. Rose, I need you to lend me your pearls. Ma, I need you to stay off my back.

What? What'd I do? I am going out with a new man tonight, and he is not Italian. Oh, who is he, Dorothy? Oh, his name is Glenn O'Brien. Now, here's the thing. Once again, I'm saying, Dorothy does not do badly for dates. I feel like she's had more dates than Rose in the 14 episodes we've covered. And yet everyone is on Dorothy's ass for, like, staying home and not having dates. But I love that she has so many dates but has no idea how to get her own self ready for it. She

She needs people to dress her. She needs people to do her nails. It's like the Cowardly Lion getting ready to go to Oz. How was there never a production of The Wizard of Oz with Bea Arthur playing the Cowardly Lion? That would have been absolutely iconic. All of them in their chairs. I'm sorry. I'm just having a vision of RuPaul saying, Chevy Chevette, sashay, you stay. Actress. Oh my God. Actress.

Were you so proud when you saw that license plate? Yes, until the adults in the room absolutely made fun of me. Because of course they did. Of course they did. I mean, they should have. Oh, God. It's like wearing a kick me sign. Anyway, so she tells them that she's going out with this gym teacher at the school where she's been subbing. And they ask who he is. And she says his name is Glenn O'Brien. She says he's a gorgeous gym teacher. And then there's a cut to Blanche who is salivating.

It's just mouths and eyebrows. She's mouthing ooh, but you don't hear it. I know. I know. Blanche cannot believe that there is a gorgeous gym teacher in the city of Miami that she has not met. No, if she's not doing it, she wants to hear about someone doing it. That is exactly right. Blanche is horny at all times, which is so admirable about her. I love that Rue McClanahan is always working.

working. She's always responding. She's always perfectly in character. You know what I mean? I so appreciate her. I appreciate her more now even than I ever did. It's funny because there's a scene later where there's like a phone ringing and Blanche is sitting on the couch doing her nails and she makes Rose answer the phone. We'll get there. But remember, we know that Dorothy wanted Blanche to do her manicure. And it's a callback to the fact that Blanche is good at it. She's

sitting on there. The show is getting to a place where it's so lived in. It's so real. And I want to believe that when Rue McClanahan sat down to do that scene, she's like, oh, give me some nail polish so I can do that thing that I'm known for in the house. Probably. I'm not saying that's what happened, but I want to believe that. Jim Colucci, tell me. I bet you know if that's what happened. So she goes on to explain and it's kind of funny how she does it

Well, I noticed him a few times, and today, as luck would have it, I found myself right behind him in the line in the cafeteria after I butted ahead of 25 students. Anyway, we started talking, and...

In 30 seconds, I was in love. You know, she's a substitute teacher. She's a guest in this world. She's not always there. Like he's the gym teacher. And like, this is an episode of Dorothy advocating for herself. I love that she like took a chance. She went up and did it, you know? Yeah. She went after the hot gym teacher and it worked because Blanche said he asked you out and she says, yes, and they're going to dinner tonight. And I just love this side of Dorothy because she's just saying, I can't believe how excited I am. I mean, he's practically

Yeah.

excited. Yeah. She says, you know, like even though they were only talking for 30 seconds, she says, I was in love. And of course, like we know that that's more she's infatuated. But that feeling of infatuation, if they could bottle, I've said this before, if they could bottle that feeling of infatuation, we'd all be billionaires because, you know, it's just the greatest feeling in the world. A hundred percent. And again, I know it's a TV show, not to take it too seriously, but like after a 38 year marriage to this deadbeat,

You know? And two years of like, you know, she just had her boyfriend stolen from her from Blanche a couple of weeks ago. And, you know, all of these things aren't working out. And now she's met this guy and it's a possibility. And, you know, she's 60 years old and she's like feeling it. I feel the need to defend Blanche now. Blanche did not steal her boyfriend. The boyfriend was a dog. You know what? Dr. Elliot Clayton, go fuck yourself. Clayton Mastroianni.

Misogyny just came out and I'm ashamed. I am ashamed. We forgive you. You're absolutely right. Papa, Papa, mother forgives you. Thank you, mother. Thank you, mother cheesecake. So this is where Blanche is describing like you've been hit by the thunderbolt. Honey, you've been hit by the thunderbolt. Love at first sight.

It happened to me once. Once you've been hit by more lightning in the World Trade Center. I was hit by the Thunderbolt once. Probably a direct hit to the forehead. It was the first time I saw my Charlie. I was seven and he was eight. And so she goes, she says, it was the first time I saw my Charlie. I was seven and he was eight. And they all settle in. It is sad.

so funny because it's now a trope it's like anytime rose starts to like lean into a story blanche is like you know they're all in the line eyes sort of leaning forward in their chairs they all resigned back on the lounge chair sofia and dorothy leaned back in their chairs they were all rolling their eyes this is the first time we hear rose call him charlie oh yes that's right and i said also they met when they were seven and eight i was like wow but then i thought like

I can, Daisy's had this little quote unquote boyfriend since she was eight. I won't say his name because he goes to her school. We've become really good friends with the parents. And she's like, now she'll describe having a little crush on him. I could totally see her marrying him. You know what I mean? Of course, I'm sure she won't. But like the fact that Rose and Charlie met when they were eight and ended up getting married now feels a little more plausible to me. Right, right. You know? And this is very sweet and funny. She says, you know, it was a hot Minnesota summer and he had put up one of those little stands on the sidewalk.

And then Blanche says, selling lemonade. Insurance. Like the Charlie Brown of it all. You know what I mean? So Rose goes on to explain that she bought a nickel policy on her red wagon. And right after that, her wagon was destroyed. And I have here, Blanche says how with a wide A. How? Because she also says naked a lot. Like that's how Blanche says it.

Going back to Red Wagon, I've often said my dream on Broadway is to be pulled across the stage in a red wagon. Oh my God. And so the ensemble men during Once Upon a One More Time bought me a little red wagon. Stop it. Isn't that sweet? How did they know that was your dream? You told them? Because I guess we

just, I was saying it in passing one day. Did they pull you across the stage in it? Well, I was also on the hunt for Diet Coke, so they bought me a six-pack of Diet Coke and put it in the little red wagon and brought it to my dressing room whistling like the Seven Dwarves. That's amazing. Isn't that sweet? That's how you know that you were a good cast

leader. They loved you. They wanted to do nice things for you. I put a picture of them on my Instagram page. You can find them. They were just wonderful. It's so funny. We mentioned Once Upon a One More Time in a recent episode. So many people saw it and loved it. People loved that show. They had a great time. Anyway, so she goes on and on about the wagon. We have to learn how the wagon got destroyed. Right after that, my wagon was destroyed.

Act of swine.

And there's a pause that lasts, I don't know, five seconds. I feel like Patti LuPone would say it's a pause you could drive a truck through. That's right. Because Dorothy is the focus of the pause. And everyone is so annoyed at Rose's story. And they think that these are so just annoying and awful. And it's just like it cuts to Dorothy who just says, acts of swine. And it just ends the scene. That's the end of the scene.

We'll be right back.

Cheesecakes, we are thrilled to tell you about Kenan and Lakin give you Deja Vu, a step-by-step rewatch podcast.

Hosted by Stacey Keenan, who played Dana Foster, and Christine Lakin, who played Al Lambert, Keenan and Lakin Give You Deja Vu takes you through every episode of the hit 90s TGIF sitcom. Stacey and Christine share their personal memories of coming of age on television, eagle-eyed analysis of the choicest 90s fashion from the TV show, and juicy behind-the-scenes stories they have never shared before. Stacey never watched her own show and brings fresh eyes to this nostalgic time.

Which is weird, Stacey, because I watched it over and over and over again. Also, Christine and Stacey bring you inside their lifelong friendship from TV stepsisters as kids in the 90s to now sharing perspectives from both inside the industry. Christine is a choreographer and director and out. Stacey is now a prosecuting attorney and my friend. So whether you follow along rewatching the show that brought those Friday night warm fuzzies or are discovering it for the first time, you're in good company.

The studio audience has lavished the pod with hundreds of glowing reviews. One recent reviewer wrote, Christine and Stacey are hilarious, thoughtful, poignant, and have chef's kiss chemistry. I love that. Me too. They're great. Season two of Kenan and Lakin Give You Deja Vu just launched. The new season features interviews with other step-by-step cast members and creators and other 90s stars. Also brand new for season two is the Kenan and Lakin Give You Deja Vu Patreon, which

with full video episodes, extended interviews, and bonus content for our VIP studio audience. And Kenan and Lakin Give You Deja Vu is produced and edited by Stephen Ray Morris of My Favorite Murder fame. Check out Kenan and Lakin Give You Deja Vu on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. And follow them on social media at Kenan and Lakin. Love them.

So we transition to a hotel and we know that because the establishing shot says hotel. Yes, yes. It's fancy. It seems like a nice hotel. It does seem nice. And inside we are presumably poised coitus. Yes. Dorothy is putting on her earrings. Glenn is putting on his shoes. And we find out they've been seeing each other for three weeks. And during the following, I have that Glenn is looking at her with such love. And Patrick, I also keep picturing there would be children. Oh, yeah. And how those children would come out with little husky voices. Yeah.

It's funny because there have been some people that I've seen that have been like, watch it to us when we're talking about Dorothy and her low voice. And it's all said in love and respect and admiration. But, you know, it's funny because in this scene, she talks a lot about feeling vulnerable, but feeling sexy. And as she's saying,

these things her voice keeps getting lower and lower and lower and it really feels like an unnaturally baritone voice which I just kind of like love and it's just her being exactly who she is you know every time you tell me you love me I turn around to see who you're talking to I can't believe it believe it I love you and everything that I used to worry about and you know I didn't worry about with you like like like

How do I look? How do I sound? Is my breath bad? What's jiggling?

And I also have to note that while she's sitting at this dressing table, getting dressed, like, she's just so calm and she's so at peace. And she's so, just so, so happy to be with this man. And this is where she starts saying, like, it's amazing. And he's like, what's amazing? And you're amazing. And, you know, no, I'm not. You are. And, you know, it's this beautiful post-coital. Yeah. They just, they both have such stars in their eyes. Yes. And at one point, he comes up behind her when she's putting her earring at the table. Yeah. And I have to tell you, Patrick, it's so beautiful.

Glenn here uses the imaginary mirror in Once Upon a One More Time that we talked about. He's using it to tie his tie. Is that right? You have to go back and look. Oh, that's so, and acting. He's like, you know what, I'm going to do some acting. I'm going to do some acting. There's nothing in front of him, but he's just placing an imaginary mirror up there. Well, Dorothy's just saying, like, it's amazing that I just made love in the daylight. And I just wrote, why does the expression made love always make me cringe? We're lover. Does anybody say made, would you ever say made love? Remember the first time we made love? No, I wouldn't. It's so weird.

I hope that that expression is like on its way out. I hope that we're, I hope that we are like in 15 years, we have to explain to our children what that expression once meant. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah.

But it's sweet. And, you know, she's like, at night I could be Godzilla. You'd be thrilled. And he's so sweet. He gets down on his knees and grabs her by the waist. Yeah. It's like, I'm thrilled, period. Everything about you thrills me. The note I made here is that it's so great to see a man really admiring and appreciating Dorothy. And I was like...

she's the one I know that I'm the rose but she's the one physically aesthetically that I feel the most like in terms of like feeling like awkward and not always feeling sexy and you know he like this man is you know so into her and it's just nice I'm like Dorothy is like the

smart one and she's funny and she's intelligent. She's lived an interesting life. And it's like she should be getting these kinds of men attracted to her. And also, I think no matter who you identify with, there's not a person in the world who doesn't identify with. I think Dorothy is the most relatable because we all know what that feels like to feel insecure or less than, you know, no matter how

beautiful other people may view you as. How you feel inside is usually vastly different from how you're perceived by other people. 100%. And like, you know, Dorothy goes on to say that, first of all, Glenn is saying, I love you, which three weeks they're already saying I love you. But she's just saying like, you know, she doesn't have to worry about the things she usually worries about, like how she looks and what is jiggly and how do I sound? And I have, how do I sound? Sorry.

We're just told to be careful, right? But I love it. That's what I'm saying. When we're making a comment on her voice, it's like so distinct and unique and I love it. And for me, it's also jealousy because when you can have a low voice like that, I mean, there's a reason why she's not topped as far as deadpan delivery. Totally. Do you know what I mean? Well, Stan Zimmerman told us in the interview that we did last episode that they worked on that. The Dorothy glance, the Dorothy deadpan look was a thing that they came up with on the

set. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which I think is so interesting. But I was saying that this whole line about like what's jiggling and whatever, I said it's funny and it gets a laugh, but she's really talking about being like naked and vulnerable and what that feels like. And to your point, I'm getting there right now. Glenn says, well, let's see. And I have they stand and kiss and it

Yeah, it is. And that's what I'm so excited to see. I don't know about all the listeners, the cheesecakes out there, but I love seeing Dorothy, this person that F&A deserves it. Yes. Truly having a passionate relationship with someone. And being not only loved, but lusted. Right. Like, he's really hot for her.

Totally into her. And he's really handsome. And they just, they're hot together. And Cheesecake's the only reason we haven't done a mini deep dive on this guy is because it's going to be the full deep dive at the end of the episode today. So just bear that in mind. So they're going on and on and on about how amazing everybody is. And, you know, Dorothy's saying, like, forget school, forget work, forget responsibilities. Let's just jump on a plane and go to the Bahamas. That's right. And I feel like they're always starting to go to the Bahamas and then they're always going to the Bahamas. Someone is. David is going, he's ending up there. Right.

At the gift shop. Kate want to get married there. She want, exactly. The Bahamas are very close by. That's right. And Glenn says, I can't do it. Dorothy, listen. He takes her by the hand to the end of the bed. He has to tell her something. And she's like, what, what, what, what? And he says, oh boy. And this moment, we've all been there. This is the penny drops. It's too good to be true moment. I have to tell you something. What? What, what, what? Oh boy. Oh God. I'm married. What?

It's not a good marriage, Dorothy. It was over years ago. I can't believe this. You lied to me. No, I didn't lie. I'm telling you now.

And you really, I have the same note. You really see Bea Arthur doing that thing. Like, Dorothy, in this moment, she doesn't know exactly what he's going to say, though she probably, in this instant, knows what's coming. But, like, her whole, everything about her changes. This is another scene that's really long. And it feels almost like a scene in a play. And they're really acting the hell out of it. And Dorothy's whole vibe, her whole, like, lovey-dovey, poised, coital, you know, like, all of a sudden she's tense and she's bracing herself. Well, and she's the way she says...

Oh, God. It's a woman who is of an age who knows who's and I have an age that can really be any age as long as the experience. Yeah. You all we've all been there. Yes. The penny drops. The other shoe has dropped. The rug is being pulled out. You don't know the specifics of what's coming, but brace yourselves. It's not going to be good. It's not going to be good. Yeah. And this is where he starts to go into it. Like the marriage isn't good. It was over your this.

funny that I think about this scene. I think about this. When I think about the Golden Girls, sometimes like this is one of the scenes that comes up. Yeah. Because he also goes in my estimation from being sexy to kind of being a sad sack instantly. Yeah. It's like sad sack of a man who is trapped in this marriage and he's a gym teacher. And all of a sudden you realize he's not really happy in his life. And Dorothy's saying like, you lied to me. And he's saying, I didn't lie to you. I'm telling you now. And Dorothy's saying like, no, by allowing me to like have sex with you, by allowing me to receive you

saying I love you and not telling me that you're married. It's a lie. I have it here. It's a lie of omission. Yeah. Guess what, folks? That's a lie. That's a lie. Especially when someone else's health is involved. And like it is like three weeks. It's been three weeks and she's been sleeping with him. Yeah. And it's funny because I, you know, I guess I've seen this episode enough times now to know, but like it's

funny that they've been together for three weeks. Why are they at a hotel? You know what I mean? Right. Like that stuck with me when I saw the exterior shot. I was like, oh, right. This all happens in a hotel room. And then I started to be like, Dorothy, wait, are there other clues? Like, did we miss other clues? Right, right, right. Has he ever been to your place and you only go to hotels with him? Like, does he not live near

We'll never know. We'll never know. So Dorothy decides she's getting out of there. And I love this, too. He grabs her arm and she's like rips it away, like let go of me. It's like physical acting. It feels like a play. And I love what she says. Listen, listen to what? How your wife doesn't understand you. How you stayed because of the children. Just all these usual tropes. And I love, too, that she now begins a mad dash around the room picking up her shit. Because what that tells us is that as soon as they got into the door, they just flinched.

flung their stuff everywhere to get to the bed. Her shirt's over here and her keys are over here and her purse is over here. Like everything is passionate, very passionate. And that's a very interesting, like whoever decorated the set or whose ever idea it was to put all of her stuff all over the place so that when she's cleaning it up, you realize like it was, they just threw their shit everywhere. And so he,

he keeps going on and saying, but I did stay for the children. And she's like, look, they're over 30. You still staying for them? And that tells you everything you need to know. You know what I mean? Because I'm saying to Dorothy, like, hang on a second. There's a world in which this could work. You know what I mean? Like, OK, fine. Maybe he was waiting for another love of his life. Now you're here and you put him on a plan. You know, you got three months to tell her and you got six months to get out of the house. And like there's a way in which this

could work if everybody wanted it to and everybody's on the same page. But it's like the kids are over 30. So your marriage was over years ago, but you stayed for the kids. But it's been at least 10, 12 years since the kids were of age. Also, this is a big trigger for her in particular because of what happened to her. Right. Right. Exactly. And I'm sure she's told him all about Stan, which means there's been instances. Oh, he probably had opportunities and didn't say anything.

Exactly. Were you a real writer for this? Stan Zimmerman just seeping into my brain. But truly, you know, it feels like Bea Arthur is bringing all of that, you know, in this character into this moment. This next part is really fun. You know I love a good door acting moment. I couldn't leave her because of all the things we're going through. Oh, look, I don't want to hear about it. Oh, my God, I'm storming out to the bathroom. Will you look at what we have? We make each other happy. You lied to me.

I couldn't lie to you. That's why I told you. Don't end this, Dorothy. You mean everything to me. It's over with my wife. It's just hard to walk out is all. Well, not for me it isn't.

Look, now I know door acting is always on the table. You know what I mean? Door acting is on the table. What I tell you, though, it punctuates jokes. Yes, for sure. You know, that's, it's like, we've complimented them before on sipping, when to sip, when to land the teacup, when to put the teacup in the saucer, when to make a sound, and that's a very good, it's like an exclamation point. But all of us knew that she was going into the bathroom. Like, that's clearly

the bathroom. You know, she's so discombobulated or whatever that, you know, it really works. It's great. And he says, don't end the story that you mean everything to me. It's over with my wife. It's just hard to walk out. And Dorothy says, well, not for me, in a sense. Really good. And that goes to your point. It's just hard to walk out is all. Yeah. Okay. And that's that like insipid, cowardly. Well, but that's, I agree with all of that, but it's also,

So a moment where you can say, I'll give you three months to tell her. Right. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Next scene, we're in the living room. This is where I wrote Blanche is doing her best busy actress work, doing her nails. But it's also a callback to like she was going to do the nails for Dorothy's date. So it's character continuity. I love it. Yeah. So she's got her feet up and Sophia's on the chair flipping through what looks like a grocery store flyer or something. Coupons. Coupons.

Rose enters through the front door. Rose tells Blanche there's something wrong with the car. Which is why I said this is why you don't sell your car to your friend. That's right. Because for the rest of time, she's going to talk about the sound the car is making, the noises and how the windows don't close. You know what I mean? Like, that's why you don't do it. I mean, but here...

the funny thing is we'll find out later that Blanche knew all along and people know that, but, but here she's kind of, she's not mean about it, but she's politely denying it and putting Rose off and gaslighting Rose. Completely gaslighting. Cause Rose is like going through, like it's making some kind of funny noise. And then it's like, it started making a wheezing, coughing, rattling kind of sound every time it goes up a hill and Blanche is blowing the whole thing off. But once again, it's,

speaks to Blanche's narcissism. Like, we're going to find out that Blanche did know all, you're going to sell your friend a lemon of a card just so you can get like this sexy new thing. Right. Blanche is kind of a sociopath. Eventually the phone rings. Yes. And Rose says, I'll get it. And she really has no choice because Blanche indicates she can't because of her nails. It's very subtle. Yes. And then not only that, Blanche doesn't move her legs and Rose has to

step over narcissistic Blanche's legs. She has to climb over Blanche's legs. And you can see Betty trying to make a bit out of it. But again, it's one of those it works for camera, but not for the studio audience. Yeah, right. It's perfect. Blanche is exactly who she is. That's right. So Rose answers the phone. It's for Dorothy. She thinks it's Glenn. And apparently Dorothy has given the girls a list of like exactly what she's supposed to tell them if Glenn calls. And Blanche reminds Rose of that. And Rose really doesn't want to do it. And it's kind of an

Kind of an unfair thing to ask your roommates to do. You know what I mean? Oh, boy, I would. And my girlfriends, I don't know, girl code. We do that for one another. It's true. And I would do it too. But I guess like in the day and age of cell phones, it's never, you're never going to encounter this. This is like there's nary an answering machine to be found, right? I know.

Right? Can you just imagine it? Like, they'd be like, hi, you've reached Blanche, Dorothy. Oh, no. You know, it would be Blanche like, hello. It would be like Jillian with those 1-800 boobs or whatever. Totally, totally, totally. You're right. You're right. Hello, this is Blanche Devereaux. Oh, please, please, please leave a message after the tone. You know how to do it. Oh, my God. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. So Rose does it. She says, hello.

It's for Dorothy. I think it's Glenn. That's the fourth time he's called today. Well, you know what we're supposed to tell him. Hello? Dorothy's not home and she's never coming home again. Now, don't call here anymore. This is Rose. Who is this? Mr. Yamamoto from the school district. Rose. I'm so sorry. I thought you were the man Dorothy's having the affair with. What?

So Rose, you know, stays on the phone. The whole thing completely falls apart. Right. And Dorothy walks in and Rose says to her, Dorothy, Mr. Yamamoto just called about a teaching job. And Dot says, oh, I'm not ready to go back to work yet. And I have here because she's in her second trimester. Oh, my God.

With that top. I know. Like, again, she's wearing this, like, not flattering gray outfit. This is not the last terrible dot outfit we're going to see in this episode. But she's also just so sad. It's sad. And we've all been there. Like, genuinely depressed. And she also walks out of a room that is not her room. She walks out of the room that I know to be Sophia's room. But they've switched. They switch it up.

You're right. Maybe they really do. There's no continuity at all. They really do. It's just like every month they have to change. They can't make it work for the storytelling. Right. Yeah. Because they're all like tired of sharing a wall with Blanche because she's too loud. That's a good point.

But Rose says, are you depressed about Glenn? And Dorothy says, no, I'm depressed because Phyllis George left the morning news. I have a little ditty about Phyllis George. Oh, do we? Just because I'm sure a lot of people may not know who she is. I didn't know. She was an American businesswoman, actress and sportscaster in 75. That's 1975. Wow. She was hired as a reporter and co-host of the CBS sports pre-show, The NFL Today. Which is Dorothy's favorite show if ever there was a favorite show.

She became one of the first women to hold an on-air position in national televised sports broadcasting. That's huge. That's a man's game. Absolutely. She got in there. So in 1985, CBS settled on her to serve as a permanent anchor for its morning news program. She was given a three-year contract following a

two-week trial run. And as co-anchor, she interviewed a lot of newsmakers, including then First Lady Nancy Reagan. Who is always popping up in these episodes. Always, because then it was 1985. Yeah. She was married twice. And I had to put this in here. Her first marriage was to Hollywood producer Robert Evans, Bob Evans. Wait, how do we know that name? Because he had a long-term relationship with Ali McGraw. Oh. Yeah, because he was with Ali McGraw forever. And the character of Bob Evans was portrayed in the TV show The Offer.

this fabulous TV show about the making of The Godfather. She was married twice, like I said. Bob Evans was one of them. And then her second marriage was to Kentucky Fried Chicken owner and governor of Kentucky, John Y. Brown Jr. And all I have to say about that is can you imagine like Kentucky Fried Chicken for life? I was just going to say, does she know the original recipe? You know, it's a secret only the colonel knows. I don't know. We can't ask her. Unfortunately, she passed away May 14th, 2020. Wow. Good long life for her. Yeah. But yeah, Phyllis Ann George. Well, back to the episode. Dorothy is just saying she

sad because for three weeks, Glenn made her the happiest woman in the world. And the past week without him has been miserable, you know? And I was like, once again, I'm saying like, it has to be black and white. There's no world in which we can try. You know what I mean? Again, like give the man, he's calling, calling, calling. And I'm saying, I understand you don't want to stay with the guy if he's not going to leave his wife, but maybe he will. A lot of people would stay with black and white and there's nothing wrong with that. But a lot of

people initially would have that reaction and then their boundaries might soften when they look at the gray of the situation. But that's going to take time for the emotional impact to wear off. I agree. And if Dorothy wants to get married again, which it seems like she does, like I understand that you don't stay with this guy long term. If it were

me and I were really in love with this person, I would just say three months to tell her, six months to get out of the house. That's a strict timeline. Right. I'm sticking to it. Right, right, right. You know? And then Rose says here, well, at least you have the comfort of knowing you did the right thing. And this is the beginning of... The unhingery. The unhingery. Because I had here, Patrick, in these last several episodes we've had, I guess when I was originally watching it, I didn't really realize how Rose is the voice of all things conservative, the conservative viewpoint. I know.

You know what I mean? It's true. And like Rose, like it's the kind of thing where in any friendship, it's totally fine to have your opinion. And even if you think that your friends are doing something bad for them, like to be there and let them know that. But like, it doesn't feel like that's where Rose is coming from and all that's about to happen. Rose feels like Dorothy is just breaking some sort of moral code. And it's not a

important to Rose that Dorothy could be doing something that would be emotionally damaging to Dorothy. Right. It's that she's breaking some moral code and Rose just can't be a party to it. Right. You know what I mean? It might be known as the patriarchy. Anyway. Yeah.

Right. Because Dorothy is saying, like, if I'm doing the right thing, why do I feel so rotten? You know, she's like, Dorothy, he's married. You have to forget him. And this is where Dorothy starts screaming. She's like, I can't just forget him. And I'm like, I'm with her. And like, maybe we're just in a more evolved time now. And I just don't think she needs to just up and decide. Right. She can't do it. Right. You know, Blanche comes in as the other voice in this. And she's like, Rose, come on. None of us is a schoolgirl anymore. Right.

Although, quite frankly, I am sometimes mistaken for one. Oh, please, Glenn. As long as Glenn and Dorothy are realistic and discreet about their situation, who are they really hurting? No one. That's who. Blanche, are you condoning their behavior? No, I'm just not passing judgment. Rose, sometimes life doesn't work out the way we'd like it to. Sometimes we have to just grab our happiness where we can get it. Now, I...

as a gay person said is this code to the gays like are they in their 1985 like love the sinner hate the sin way trying to say like we see you gays and you know like Stan Zimmerman was saying that like even on the set of the Golden Girls like it had to be a secret but like we want you to know that we see

you. It felt very coded to me in that way. I don't know that it's just for the gays. I think that's under the umbrella. Yeah. Because I coming out of Blanche's mouth, you could take it as, you know, she's a widow now. Right. And maybe she thinks she'll never get married again, but she doesn't want to deny herself happiness. So she, you know, that didn't work out the way she wanted to. I just people get divorced. You know, it didn't work out the way they wanted to. The thing is, I want to be on Blanche's side here. But when Rose says Blanche, are you condoning their behavior? And Blanche says no. But then

goes on to say, grab your happiness where you can get it. She's saying, Dorothy's doing a bad thing here, but she's a person that we love and she deserves happiness. So let her go and get her happiness where she deserves it. So even though she's saying a nice, she's trying to say a nice thing. And I know it's a sitcom and I know I'm probably overthinking it, but it was a very interesting character moment to say that like, I'm also not condoning what they're doing, but I am saying I love this person and this person is making her happy. So let her go and do this bad thing.

thing and i will still love her now i hear you you know so as they're having this conversation the phone rings and because dorothy is like sitting right next to the phone and she's like you know ping-ponging back and forth between these two people she instinctively answers the phone and it's glenn perfect timing glenn and there's that fight between rose and blant hang up on that bed hopper don't hang up on him that man cares for you hop go with your feelings hop hop

Like we were discussing off camera that, you know, you know, she does lay down the law with Glenn. She's like, no, I will not change my mind. Goodbye, Glenn. And it's really great because, you know, Rose is like, you know, you'll see it's not the end of the world. And Dorothy says, and

And so honestly, no, it just feels like it. Yeah. Oh, I hope I'm doing the right thing. Which is, to Patrick's point, every choice you make is going to have a consequence. Yes. And so she's like, well, by being black and white about it, is this the right thing? I think Dorothy is play acting a little bit here because I think Dorothy's...

already made up her mind about what she's going to do. You're probably right because the transition is lightning fast. It's lightning fast. So Blanche and Rose go into the kitchen. Now Rose lingers. They're going to go make dinner. Blanche goes in first. Rose lingers and kind of looks back at Dorothy just to, just to,

make sure that Dorothy's okay, but also just to make sure we're, like, she wants to do, like, the fingers with the eyes thing. Like, we're on the same page here, right? Oh, so your point is because they were witness to his phone call, like, if they weren't in the room, she would have said what she's about to say to him, probably. Yes, exactly. Yes, yes, yes. So Blanche and Rose exit into the kitchen and Dorothy immediately picks up the phone and calls Glenn back and says she misses him. And Rose comes back in. And Dorothy pretends now she's on the phone with Mr. Yamamoto. Glenn, Dorothy,

Yeah, I miss you. I think we have to talk. Yes, yes, Mr. Yamamoto. Yes. Fine, I'll see you there. Oh, I'm so glad you're going back to work. Yeah, he was thrilled, too.

And it's good because this is what I'm saying. Like, all right, Dorothy, give him a shot, you know, but you got to be strict with him, Dot. You can't just go back into what it was and have it be nebulous. You got to go in and say, I really like you. I want to try to do this, but here's the plan. But in a way, you could say that's just delaying the pain because she's already breaking down the boundary by going back, you know, so he kind of knows that the boundaries are not as strict. I'm giving him a little bit of the benefit of the doubt that maybe he really does love her, you know, and we'll see. Okay.

Where'd you get those shoes? Easy. They're from DSW because DSW has the exact right shoes for whatever you're into right now. You know, like the sneakers that make office hours feel like happy hour or the boots that turn grocery aisles into runways. Basically DSW has all the styles that show off the many sides of you from daydreamer to multitasker and everything in between because you do it all in really great shoes. Of course,

And your style can't be defined by just one pair. Lucky for you, DSW has tons of options, so you can turn any mood into a whole look. Find the latest shoes and must-own trends for everything you do from the brands you love, like Nike, UGG, Birkenstock, Adidas, Steve Madden, and more.

Oh, and they just so happen to be the perfect price. Find a shoe for every you at your DSW store and always at DSW.com. Well, we come back from commercial break and Dorothy has on a green and purple shiny pantsuit with a yellowish gold on delay and gold shiny flats, even though she doesn't have to wear flats. No, I wrote Dorothy enters the living room wearing something that can only be described as being from the Dorothy's Bornax collection of Woolworths.

This is definitely a repeat pantsuit. It's a repeat pantsuit, and it is so perfectly Dorothy. And it is like the mustard yellow blouse, the plunging neckline. She's wearing a yellow shirt underneath it. And like the outfit is so ugly, but then you see the yellow shirt and it's actually kind of sexy. It is. And we're going to see this, like I said, in future episodes. But as the character, she has a completely disproportionate paranoid response to Rose simply saying her name. So Dorothy's obviously coming back from a date with Glenn. Right. And Rose...

doesn't know that she was necessarily out with Glenn. So Rose enters the living room as Dorothy's walking to her bedroom and says, Dorothy? Dorothy? What is this, the Spanish Inquisition? Look, I don't have to defend myself. If I want to see Glenn, I'll see Glenn. You're seeing Glenn? I don't want to hear about it. Well, I don't want to talk about it. Good night. Good night. It's

It's so, so funny. But Rose is immediately just like the morality of it all, you know? Yeah, yeah. Like, it's such a shitty thing to say, you know what I mean? I know, I know. Like, make your feelings and opinions known. If you really think that Dorothy's doing something to hurt herself, tell her that. Yeah. But like, you're not going to like cut off the conversation with your friend just because, you know what I mean? I do, but it's so the sitcom can happen. I know.

See, I'm taking it. To me, it's a drama. To me, it's a drama. But they have this funny exchange that's repeated. Good night. Good night. You know, and so Dot exits the bedroom, Rose to the kitchen. But after a pause, they each return and meet in the living room. Yes. Dorothy asked her, what are you doing up so late? Rose was hungry. She was making herself a sandwich and asked Dorothy if she wants one and said, no, thanks. We went out to dinner. And so Rose is like, oh, that's nice. She's she's, you know, thinks it's positive. So you spent the evening at

dinner because all that rose cares about is that she shouldn't be having sex with a married man she's not doing something untoward exactly it's like on it's just sort of like okay so you don't care that they're spending time together it's the sex that really bothers rose that's right you know uh so dorothy says no we spent dinner at dinner we spent the evening at a motel yeah and rose is just horrified by this a cheap tawdry bear ball den of iniquity dorothy says we didn't drive to

Sodom and Gomorrah rose. It was a very pleasant place overlooking Biscayne Bay and Rose cuts her off. Cuts her off and covers her ears. Yeah. And she's saying, I don't want to hear about it. And Dorothy's saying, well, and I didn't want to talk about it. Which, you know, again, this show is really good at the characters saying something but meaning something else. Yeah. Like, Rose knows she's being an asshole and Dorothy also feels like Rose maybe has a point. And the reason they keep bumping into each other in this scene

scene when like Rose should be going to the kitchen and Dorothy should be going to bed. Yeah. Because they actually do want to talk to each other. That's right. They do want to hear what the other one has to say. You know, we have the same repeat. Good night. Good night. Yes. But this time Rose goes to the kitchen and then a few minutes later, Dorothy enters the kitchen. Yeah. And, you know, you can she's kind of sheepish. She's like, maybe I will have something. I was too nervous to eat much at dinner. Well, then Blanche enters and they all sit down for a snack at the table. Dorothy's snack is an enormous

enormous slice of chocolate cake. Blanche's snack is a petite little jar of olives. Right. But I have here, no one is eating. No one's eating. You gotta get this. Not the sandwich, not the cake. And Blanche is just sucking on the tip of one olive.

Again, it's the food continuity. The other two don't eat a thing. Nobody eats anything. But I love that if they were going to eat, Dorothy is about to house this chocolate cake. She's going to just like, you know what I mean? And like, meanwhile, Blanche is just like licking on the olive, just smelling the jar. That's all she needs. Tiny little breasts.

Our blood cells are so petite. Don't forget. Don't forget. Oh, I said also this is a study in nightgowns. Yeah. Rose is wearing your grandmother's terrycloth number. Blanche's is practically see-through. It's ivory. It's ivory. It's like satin. It's very sexy. It's turning me on. It's very wedding night. Totally. Totally.

So, you know, basically they're sitting around the table and, you know, it's going on and on. But it ultimately culminates in Dorothy thinking that she has an ally in Blanche. You know, so she's telling Rose. Oh, will you stop being so judgmental? This is a situation you know nothing about. At least Blanche has been there before and she knows what I'm going through. Well, not exactly. Actually, I've never been with a married man. Out of here. Out of here.

Get out of here. Which is very funny. It's great for the joke, but I was like, remember like four episodes ago where Blanche was asleep at the table when they were going to go to the bowling practice? Right. You know, Blanche wake up. She's having this sex dream about her like married suitor. I'm glad you brought

that up because that's what I was thinking earlier. Like, do you condone? And she's like, no. I'm like, I don't think she's like, I'm not passing judgment, but I think she does condone it. Of course. I like the idea that Blanche has never been with a married man. Come on. But, you know, Rose is attributing some sort of moral compass to this. And Blanche is like, basically, no, that's not it. It's not the morality. It's that she's no fool because the husband's always so guilty. He ends up giving the really expensive gifts to the wife. Exactly. Fake nibbling on the olive. Ha ha ha ha.

So Dorothy is saying, you know, again, she's just tortured by this. She's like, listen, I tried to do the right thing, but the right thing was not right for me. I'm in love. And if there are sacrifices that have to be made, I can accept them. I'm happy. And you know, she's not, but she's I'm happy. And that's what matters. And Sophia enters at this point in a baby blue robe and no purse. Oh, no.

purse this time. No purse, yeah. And Dorothy greets her. Sophia says, so you started up with your married man again, and Dorothy says, how did you know? And Sophia said, I'm the amazing Kreskin. And then she says, just kidding, I was listening outside the door. And I was thinking, like, this just made me think, there is an eventual scene that we get one day when the three women are, like, Blanche, Dorothy, and Rose are

in the kitchen talking and they go to open the door and you hear it hit Sophia who's been listening on the other side. It's very funny. But I did a little deep dive on Kreskin. Oh, lay it on us. So this is really interesting. So Kreskin is an American mentalist who became popular on television in the 1970s. He always presented himself as an entertainer and never as a psychic.

who operates on the basis of suggestion, not the paranormal or supernatural. So he was able to do things, like guess things or like do things that people who claim to be psychic or paranormal can do, but he's doing it just like through understanding the human condition. Okay. So he appeared on The Tonight Show 61 times from 1970 to 1980. And then in the 1980s and 90s, he came to prominence again through several appearances on Late Night with David Letterman and on The Howard Stern Show. And then in 2009, he became the first guest to make things

three appearances on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon. Though Kreskin makes, quote, predictions, he does not claim to have paranormal or clairvoyant powers and does not like to be considered a psychic. One of his best known tricks is to find his own check for his current performance. If he does not find it, he does not get paid for that day. And this is how he does it. He instructs the audience to hide an envelope containing his paycheck while he's escorted off the stage and into seclusion by

other members of the audience. He then reemerges and hunts through the audience, almost always being able to ferret out the correct location just by studying human behavior. Wow. And I met a magician once. We did an event with TCO where we hired a magician who did the same thing. She was able to like, Jillian and I were over here doing a thing and she was able to like ferret out the answers to what we were doing just based on asking us questions and seeing how we were doing. It was pretty amazing. That is. Yeah, it's a thing you can learn. Oh my gosh. But back

to the episode, you know, Sophia is saying, because Dorothy is like chiding the mom for listening in on the conversation and Dorothy says, oh ma, and Sophia says, oh, I can't put my ear to the door but you can put your heart. Ma,

And she says, and I don't like this. Sophia says, I raised you to have respect for yourself, not be somebody's floozy. Right. And I'm like, I think we're all being a little hard on Dot, you know? And on women, like this is a very, this is a message a lot of women can relate to. Sure. And that the message we were given, you know, like, why is he going to buy the cow if you give him the milk for free and all these terrible things that women can relate to.

women are allowed to enjoy sex. Yes. Just like a man. Yeah, 100%. And also like women or anybody are allowed to sort of have their own experiences and learn their own lessons. Yeah. And to call her a floozy, it's like she's 60 years old. She's a grown ass woman who's having sex with a man she finds hot. And she's figuring the rest of it out. Can we give Dot a minute? Yeah, exactly. You know, hashtag justice for Dot. So...

It's the next scene. We're out on the lanai, which I still have to say very slowly. I cannot say that quickly. It does not work. Right. Sophia has her headphones in and she's playing the air guitar. She is. Like, that's the funniest thing. It's the thing that, like, would Sophia ever actually do that? I love that. Well, and that's the joke. Not only that and what she's listening to. And Cheesecakes, if you watch this on Hulu, you may. I don't know if they didn't get the rights to it, but it's still in the DVD set. Oh. But they cut it on Hulu because that's why I have...

Wright's written here, she actually vocalizes Purple Rain. Oh, is that right? Yeah. And so for some reason, you can't listen to it anymore. They make a little, but that's in fact what she's listening to. So if you can't see it, that's what was originally there. I love that Sophia loves Prince. Like that makes total sense. Oh yeah. She's got good taste. Anyway, I said Rose enters from the wrought iron gate and I'm like, I hope they have SimpliSafe. I know. I know.

I was like, we've never seen this entrance to the Lanai before. We never will again. It's where they keep the bar cart. Right. And we saw Blanche's grandson holding on to it like prison bars. That's right. That's right. Because Rose comes in screaming. She's frantic for Blanche. Blanche comes in basically around the same time. Yes. Rose is trying to tell her Blanche about your car and Blanche is trying to fess up.

trying to fess up in this moment and do the right thing. Yeah, they're having this thing where Blanche is trying to talk and Rose is trying to talk. And Blanche basically says, honey, I can't sell you that car. And we now learn through a long speech that she can't sell Rose the car because the car is like a lemon. The car really has lots of problems with it. She tried to trade it in, but they were only going to give her half the blue book value. And so she was trying to then sell it for the full blue book value. Right. So she says, I cannot sell you that car. And Rose says, you can't sell it to anyone. Somebody's

Now Blanche turns and she's mad at Rose. Very nice, Rose. I lend you a perfectly fine automobile, no strings attached. And you let some thief drive off in it. Rose Nyland, I will never forgive you. Wasn't it insured? They'll pay you full blue book. All is forgiven. I'm going to go call the car dealer right now and tell him he made a sale. Was the gist of what you were saying before that you intended to cheat me?

Chee-choo. Rose, you just analyzed everything to death. Rose, you just analyzed everything to death. I love Blanche getting called out on her shit. Blanche is like, she is that friend you will make excuse for after excuse for because she's fun. You know her heart's in the right place. You know she loves you. You know she'll do anything for you except donate a kidney because her blood vessels are too petite. She actually doesn't qualify. Right.

Or own her shit when you confront her with facts. Right, exactly, exactly. She won't do that either. But like, you know, she loves you. You know what I mean? And so you just make excuses for her. And so Rose just lets it go and walks away. Now, Dorothy enters looking very nice in a gray and pale pink pantsuit. I said this outfit is from the Shoulder Pads Hall of Fame. Like, if this is not on display somewhere, it is shoulder pads for the gods. Yes, but I thought it was lovely. It is lovely, but weird.

What's the deal with the shoulder pads? It was a very 80s thing. Okay. Really? It was like dynasty. Women just wanted to look broad? Yeah, well, everything goes in cycles. And in the 80s, there was a very big hearkening back to the 40s. Oh. And so that was all the rage. Oh, interesting. Wide shoulder pads. Yeah. I remember my

mom having the shoulder pads and be like, what is this all about? No, all of the things. I mean, I was in high school, so fashion was very important, but shoulder pads were definitely in. What was your hair like in high school? Oh, gosh. I got the perm. You did? But it wasn't the kind I wanted. Oh, no. I wanted like one of those banana curl ringlets, you know, ringlets. Of course, the Bernadette Peters hair. Right, right. But a friend's mother did it like, I can perm your hair. And it's basically like when they go to the salon and that's what my hair looked like.

You know that episode? Yes. You know, like, obsession. Oh, and they all have the same tight, tight. So I had no choice but to, like, cut my hair. You did? So then I had, like, short Sheena Easton perm hair. I'm just seeing you at your friend's mom's house getting it done. So excited. Seeing how horrible it is. And then getting back in your little blue car with the actress, Vivian.

Fantasy play. This was prior to the actress. And peeling off. This was when I was 14, I think, when I had this done. But it was a tragedy. And I had braces. Do you know when I was in high school, I did a reverse perm because I had curly hair in the front and I really wanted straight River Phoenix hair. And they said if you get a home perm and you just like use it but make it straight, it like straightens your hair. It just made my hair fall off, essentially. Oh, God. Just burned it, I'm sure. But we love it.

Dorothy is running out to the lanai because she's getting in her going out outfit and she can't find her shoes because her mother has hidden them. Oh, my God. Her mother has hidden the shoes. Don't you have to do that with Daisy? You have to hide her shoes. Oh, yeah. Or she hides her shoes. There's a lot of shoe hiding going on in my house. I can't tell you exactly why. Okay. But there are shoes that Steve does not want Daisy wearing to school. He hides those. Okay. And when Daisy finds them and wants to be able to wear them at a later date, she'll hide them from us. Yep. We never know where Daisy's shoes are. Okay.

Well, Sophia is just savage. She's like another date with Mrs. O'Brien's husband. I mean, look, I want to know how long Dorothy's been going back out with Glenn now because I want to know if she put him on a timeline or not, or if she's just now living in the sadness of like dating this guy who now it's clear is never going to leave the house. I can answer that. It's clearly the latter. Oh, that's so sad. But you know, Dorothy is really doubling down here on how happy she is. Ma, for the first time in a long time, I am really happy.

So please leave me alone. If you're so happy, how come I hear you pacing in your room night after night? I can't sleep. I have a lot on my mind. I'll tell you what's on your mind. You hate yourself. I do not. My mistake. I've only known you since the day you were born. Look, I've heard enough, Ma. I'm leaving now to meet Glenn and have a perfectly marvelous time. I hope he's taking you bowling. Bowling? Yeah, you could rent shoes there.

This is clearly really eating at her. She's back with the guy that she really likes. And that's the part, if I were the friend, that would really make me crazy. It's like, all right, you said you were going to go back. Now he's really not going to leave his wife. So now you have a decision to make. Are you going to be the other woman? Which if that's what you want to be, then go be it with my blessing. Or you got to get out of this. Well, it's hard because when she says she's happy, you know what she means. She's in love with him. Yes.

She loves him. Right. And obviously in the moment when she can lose herself. Yeah. And they're having sex and just being in love. Yeah. She is happy-ish. Right. But obviously it's settling. Yeah. Because we get to the next scene and now we're with Dorothy and Glenn in the hotel room and you see her. It's post-coital again. So they've just had sex. She's fully dressed and looking miserable.

So remember, the first time we saw her, like, after sex, in the same hotel room, she was so happy and light. And this is really so much on her mind. And Glenn comes out of the bathroom and says, sweetheart, if you want to grab some dinner, we'll have to take separate cars. I'm going to have to leave for home right from the restaurant. So Glenn is now fully comfortable.

Yeah. Talking about her as the other woman. I'm uncomfortable hearing you talk about it. I know. You know. And that's what made me so sad because Dorothy is now settled into being the other woman with no plan for him to leave the wife. And here's the thing. Let's say she were in a relationship too or married too. It might be something that was great for her. Absolutely. And guess what? If she was actually fine with this and didn't want a relationship at all,

and more with him, then it probably wouldn't be a problem. But we know that she does want more. Right, exactly. That's the problem. And just the way that he is so openly talking about his family now, it's like it's so clear what's going on. Yeah. You know, Dorothy says, Glenn, like, forget dinner. We have to talk. Yeah. Glenn, forget dinner. We need to talk. Things aren't working out anymore, and I don't know what to do to make them any better. You can't leave your wife, and I'm not cut out to be the other woman.

Dorothy, you know I love you. I know that. But it's not enough. And I love how clinical she is and frankly not histrionic. It's just like, listen. Yeah. She's very just paint by numbers. She's like, you can't leave your wife. I'm not cut out to be the other woman. Yes. It's an episode where we really see how well Dorothy really does know herself. She knows what she wants. She knows what she's willing to settle for and what she isn't. What she can't do. And he starts it with the, I love you and I don't want to lose you. And, you know, her saying, I don't want to lose you either. That's why I came back. And Glenn says,

says, I thought you understood. And that is what is so enraging. And he says, you know, I can't break up my marriage. And he's blaming it on his age and this stage of his life and saying that it's too risky. If things didn't work out with Dorothy, then he'll be alone. Now, to me, I was like, when you have conversations like this with somebody that you found so hot and sexy, the sexiness is gone. You're such a weak, broken man. And you're such a man who's putting yourself first ahead of your wife, ahead of your girlfriend. Like there's nothing sexy. You're just a

sad, pathetic old man who's afraid to be alone. Right. And also saying it to a woman who is alone. Yes. Like, that's the thing that kind of splashed water on my face. I'm like, who do you think you're talking to? And what's different about her life is that she's got this chosen family to go back. That's what makes the show so great. Right. No matter these ups and downs. Alone in quotes. Exactly. You know, and that's what makes his life so sad is that he feels alone, you know? And I love what she said. If I stay, I am throwing away my future.

Now I'll go home. I'll hurt, but after a while I'll feel better and I'll go on with my life. If I continue this, I'll end up alone and I care too much about myself to let that happen.

You did it, Dot. You did it. You read anything about having a healthy relationship. Yes. And it all comes back to the same thing. It's about loving yourself. Yes, exactly. And not just lip service. Really digging in, doing the work, and loving yourself. And truly realizing, I don't actually need someone. And if you're going to invite someone in, having it be, you know...

Something to add to your life, but truly internalizing, I don't need someone to be happy. That happiness is from the inside. You said the key phrase, which is doing the work. That's why, hopefully, by the time you get to be Dorothy's age, you're as grounded as she seems to be in this. Which is one year from now. Stop it. Stop it. You're not anywhere near that. But I love to. So Glenn says, I love you. And Dorothy says, I love you too. Goodbye. And she touches his face and like she leaves. And I wanted to say, also see you at school on Monday. Exactly.

But I love this. He reaches toward the door as the frame fades. Oh, does he? And it's like, you see the sign in the back. And you're like, I'm going to miss these hotel exit instructions. Yeah.

Oh my God. So we get home, we get the transition shot of the car pulling into the driveway. I always love that. It's such a rare thing. Sometimes I'm telling you there are episodes where the car pulls in and the driver's side door opens. Nobody gets out or the trunk opens. Nobody gets out. Listen, we're going to do a deep dive on set decorations pretty soon. Oh, I love it. And, uh,

this is talked about there. Oh, great. That kind of thing. So, you know, Sophia's up late doing the dishes. Dorothy comes in and now they're going to have that sort of like conversation about what's going on, who was right. And they're just going to have the conversation. Correct. And they both know it. Yes. And it's very calm. Yes. You know, and Sophia's like, you're home early. And Dorothy tells her, I broke up with Glenn. I told him I couldn't see him anymore. And Sophia says, I'm sorry. I thought you'd be happy. You want me to be happy? Help me put away the dishes. Yes.

You still angry with me? I was never really angry. I was worried. I don't like seeing you in pain. You still angry with me? What for? For trying to stop your daughter from making a mistake? Somebody has to. You kids get to be middle-aged. You think you know everything.

And it's not that she's angry with her. Yes. She was worried. She was worried. She doesn't like seeing her child in pain. And any parent feels that way about their child, right? Yeah. Or any good parent. They're just, right. And they're just kind of making up, you know. So Rose and Blanche enter. And I said, what is Blanche wearing? Is that a nightgown or a summer dress? I was like, what?

Oh, I didn't write it down. Oh, my God. It looks like a nightgown, but feels like a house dress. It's a house dress. It's a house dress. Yeah. It is very unblanched because it's not form fitting. No, it's not her. It's pretty, but it's like she's in her new sexy car, but now like in this grandma nightgown. It's more Vivian. Totally. Totally.

So they're coming in from a drive and they've been pulled over and Blanche is convinced they got pulled over because the trooper wanted to meet Blanche. And you just hear Dorothy, oh, please, Blanche. They're all just coming back together. Like this is the beauty of this show and the relationship. They're all in the kitchen. They're all kind of coming back together. Blanche has got the new car. Dorothy is letting them know that like, you know, he's going to stay married. It's not going to work out. This next part I love because it's all about what great pals they all are. I have the

Yeah, because Dorothy's like, you know what? I'm just going to stay home tonight and have fun cruising. But I feel like, you know, just sitting. Yeah, because the rest of the girls want to go out and take Blanche's new car for a spin. Yeah, and like, you know, almost immediately, Sophie is like... Me too. I think I'll have a cup of tea. Yeah, it's kind of late. I'm a little tired. I think I'll just stick around. What the heck? That car will still be there tomorrow. You know, when you're depressed, like...

is all you feel like you can do, right? And no matter all of their diverging opinions about what's been going on, they want to be there for their friends. They want to be there for their friends. You know, and they sit there for 10 seconds in silence. And then Dorothy just says, this is depressing. Let's go cruising. That's right. With a well-placed clap. Girls! Girls, let's go cruising. I know a place where guys wrestle naked in the mud. Da-da-da-da-da.

Can I tell you, I googled guys wrestling naked in the mud. Wondering if that's an actual form of entertainment. It is apparently a form of entertainment for the homosexual community. There is so much porn online.

about men wrestling each other naked in the mud. I've never seen anything like it. Well, there you go. But there's an abundance if that's your cup of tea. Just give it a go. You heard it here. Who knew you had to listen to the Golden Girls Deep Dive podcast? Exactly. Oh, girl, that was such a good episode. Tell the cheesecake what we're going to do for the deep dive right after the break. Oh, my gosh. You have to come back because it's fascinating. This is all about the actor who played Glenn, Alex Rocco. Strap in. Oh, my goodness. Cheesecake, strap in. I'm so excited. All right.

When you think about businesses that are selling through the roof like Aloe, Allbirds, or Skims, sure, you think about a great product, a cool brand, and brilliant marketing. But an often overlooked secret is actually the businesses behind the business, making selling and for shoppers buying simple.

For millions of businesses, that business is Shopify. Nobody does selling better than Shopify, home of the number one checkout on the planet and the not-so-secret secret, with shop pay that boosts conversions up to 50%, meaning way less carts going abandoned and way more sales going...

So if you're into growing your business, your commerce platform better be ready to sell whenever your customers are scrolling or strolling on the web, in your store, in their feed, and everywhere in between. Upgrade your business and get the same checkout experience as business powerhouses like Allo, Allbirds, and Skims.

Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com slash Odyssey podcast, all lowercase. Go to Shopify.com slash Odyssey podcast to upgrade your selling today. Shopify.com slash Odyssey podcast. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Whether you love true crime or comedy, celebrity interviews or news, you call the shots on what's in your podcast queue. And guess what? Now you can call them on your auto insurance too with the Name Your Price tool from Progressive.

It works just the way it sounds. You tell Progressive how much you want to pay for car insurance, and they'll show you coverage options that fit your budget. Get your quote today at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law.

Hi, Jen Simard. Hi, Papa Cheesecake Patrick. Welcome back to Mother Cheesecake. This is a cult. It's like Papa and Mother Cheesecake. I just like it when you call me Mother. Yes, Mother. Yes, Mother. Oh my God, that's so funny. Jen is going to do the deep dive now. What's this guy's name? So, Glenn O'Brien is played by the actor Alex Rocco. Okay. And that's spelled R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-K-E-R-O-C-E-R

Just in case you need to look it up and really get all the genes. Yeah, but there's more coming up about his name. All right. Now, at first, we were just going to put this inside the episode, but this is too juicy, juicy fruity. I love juicy fruit gum, by the way. Me too. Oh, yeah. Hubba Bubba. Oh, yeah. Come on, Bubblicious. Bubba Bubba.

All right. So listen, Alex Rocco plays Glenn O'Brien. Now, just fun facts here. Yeah, okay. He was also in an episode of Murder, She Wrote as a mobster who was followed by a private eye, and the private eye was played by Jerry Orbach. And that's significant here because...

Yes. Although Jerry Orbach would go on to play Glenn O'Brien in a later episode, Cheaters, from season five, which I actually had to watch this morning. I'm so glad you said that because I always conflate them. I thought Jerry Orbach was the guy in this episode. But it's the same character five seasons ago? Same character in season five where he is divorced from his wife. That's...

That's why I've always conflated these episodes. Oh, my God. Yes, that's why. It's kind of like Arnie Miles. Miles Arnie. Except that's even more so because it's the same actor. Same actor, different characters, but different actors, same character. Okay, got it. And you know how we were talking about in the episode about both Alex and Bea had lower raspy voices? Yes. Well, Alex would go on to impersonate her voice in the 2001 season three Family Guy episode. What? Ready, Willing, and Disabled. No.

Isn't that a fun fact? That is a fun fact. All right, getting into it. He was insufferable on the side. You know, when I worked with Bea in that episode of The Golden Girls, I wasn't asked back to do it a second time, but...

Well, I don't know if this had anything to do with it, but let me lay this on you. Oh, God. Oh, I should say this, Cheesecakes. Patrick didn't read any of the research that we, because I did my own research. It's more extensive, but Jess started us out great. And the thing is, I said, you're not going to believe this. And he said, I'm not even going to read anything. So this is all a surprise to him. I don't even know. I can't even imagine what I'm in for. Okay. Alex Rocco was born Alessandro Federico Petricone Jr.,

Whoa. February 29th, 1936. He was an American actor known for his distinctive gravelly voice, as we've discussed, and he was often cast as villains, including, famously, Moe Green in The Godfather. Oh.

Oh, okay. Yeah, Mo Green is like, you know, you don't buy me out, I buy you out. People think it's like, he's like the Bugsy Siegel mobster, you know, in Vegas. That was hot what you just said. Yeah, well, I've seen that movie so many times, you guys. Okay. Anyway, he's also known for his primetime Emmy Award winning role in the famous Teddy Z. Okay. And I have here, as I said before, okay, Strapp and Patrick, Cheesecakes.

Here we go. Oh, my God. According to organized crime turncoat Vincent Teresa, Alex, known as Alexander Bobo Petricone. So from now on, I'm going to call this actor who played Glenn, I'm going to call him Bobo. Oh, my God. Okay? Because there are a lot of names. Okay. So when I say Bobo. We're talking about Glenn. We're talking about Glenn kissing Dorothy in the hotel room. Okay. Very hot. All right. So Bobo was a hanger-on with the Winter Hill Gang of the Boston area. What? Yes. Now, an unwanted advance toward Bobo.

Bobo's girlfriend on Labor Day 1961 touched off the Boston Irish gang war of the 1960s. What? Georgie McLaughlin, a.k.a. Little George, who made the advance, and apparently the advance was a drunken groping,

of Bobo's girlfriend. So because of that, he was beaten by the Winter Hill gang. They thought he was dead and they loaded him into a car to dispose of the body. But when they realized he was alive, they dropped him off on a hospital lawn. No!

That's not even the juicy part. Is this pre-Golden Girls? Yes, this is in the 60s, honey. I know, it's a lot. What? Okay, so listen to this. So Bobo, Glenn. So Bobo was arrested in Charlestown on October 31st, 1961. Okay, so this is just a month later. So the beating up

of the guy who groped his girlfriend, allegedly groped his girlfriend. That was Labor Day. Now we're here at Halloween. Okay. So on Halloween. So Bobo, along with James Buddy McClain, I'm going to call him Buddy, Buddy McClain, they were arrested on suspicion of murder following the death of Bernie McLaughlin. So he died, the guy.

No, he didn't die. That guy's name was Little George. They beat up Little George McLaughlin. This is his brother, Bernie. Okay. So Bernie was the brother of Little George, the guy they beat up. Bernie was the head of the McLaughlin brothers gang. Okay. And he was murdered. This was the first murder in the war. So what happened here is in October of this month before Halloween, because they were arrested on Halloween.

Buddy McClain, Alex Rocco, a.k.a. Bobo, and a corrupt police officer named Russell Nicholson found Bernie, the guy that they killed, head of the McLaughlin Brothers gang, in front of the Morning Glory Cafe in Charlestown and shot him dead. Despite the large crowd, I think there were like 100 people, almost all of the witnesses wouldn't agree to violate the neighborhood code of silence. Nobody saw anything. Nobody saw anything. They were all looking at the Duncan sign. That's right. So,

One witness claimed that Bobo was the driver of the getaway car. And he and Buddy were formerly charged in the slaying on All Saints Day on November 1st, 1961. But!

They were released after a grand jury found a lack of evidence, which doesn't that sound so suspicious? Of course. I mean, just you can imagine. A grand jury of your peers in South Boston or whatever. Like they didn't get names, right? Yeah. Both did serve a prison term for the assault on the owner of a diner in Somerville. So wait, so they almost killed that guy, dumped him on the lawn of the hospital.

Then they actually killed that guy's brother, got away with it, and now they're beating up this other guy? No, no, no. Actually, the timeline is such that the assault on the owner of the diner in Somerville and the wrecking of his diner, the establishment, was the previous August. So they beat up this guy in Somerville. Yeah, like 9 and 60 or something. They wreck his diner. Then there's the one that they thought that they killed, but they didn't, so they dumped him on the hospital lawn. And then they killed his brother. Then they killed his brother. Right. Then he went on to be in the Golden Girls. Right.

Things happen, though, in between. So in 1962, while in prison, Bobo's wife's car was bombed. Bobo's wife's car was bombed? Her name was Grace. Was she in it? Yes. Oh, no. So police believe the bomb was intended for Howie Winter, head of the Winter Hill gang. OK. That's how Winter Hill got its name. Howie Winter, I guess, who had driven the car to her

earlier. So I'm like, this is just like Michael and his wife Apollonia in The Godfather. Oh my God. Right? Right? So Grace was shaken but lived. The hood of the car blew off. But what's strange here, there's no record that I could find of the year they got married and no record of when they specifically divorced. But...

Bobo decided to move to California. And when he was there, he remarried a woman named Sandra in 1964. So he didn't wait a long time. And regarding starting over, he's quoted as saying, this is Glenn, everyone. Yeah. Alex Rocco. He's going by Alex, right? But anyway...

Bobo says, I had to get out of the Boston area. So I flipped a coin and said, heads Miami, tails California. Oh, my God. I was in my mid-20s and came out here with no training. Acting wasn't even on my mind. Wow. I mean, and how many actors do we have doing guest spots on this show? Oh, I know. Who have all the theater training in the world. Right. Oh, yeah. And he's far more famous than any of them. That's insane. Anyway, so after moving to Los Angeles, I'm not going to call him Bobo anymore. Yep.

Alex Rocco became a member of the Baha'i Faith. Oh, wow. I had a friend who was a member of the Baha'i Faith. He appeared in a number of productions related to the religion over the years. He also thanked Baha'u'llah, the prophet founder of the Baha'i Faith, in his Emmy Award acceptance speech. Wow. Alex Rocco died on July 18th, 2015, from pancreatic cancer in his Studio City home at the age of 79. Wow.

So that's my deep dive on the actor who played Glenn, on the actor who played Mo Green. And so he only spent a little bit of time in prison. We're not even really sure for what. Well, not much because about a year, less than a year, because he moved, or a year or two, because he, again, from what I read, the diner thing happened in 1960. Yeah. The murder happened in 61. He was in prison in 1962. But by 1964, he was already in California remarried. Wow, that is wild.

I know. So, like, I mean, it sounds like he got away with murder. For three, like a couple. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. So when you read that, you're like, this needs its own deep dive. It does. But also to your question earlier about like, or what you said earlier, like he wasn't invited back. You just see B. Arthur reading. We're going to bring, let's bring that over. I'm just going to read. Oh, what has he done? Oh, my. Oh, my. Oh, my. Oh, no, no.

That's so funny that they did the same character and didn't bring him back. I thought all of this was going to come later. Like he was going to be in prison or something. Yeah. But no, that's so funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, well, Cheesecake, that was an amazing deep dive, Mother Cheesecake. Thank you so much. That was incredible. Cheesecakes, we love you so much. I'm going to tell you again, join the Facebook group. It's the Golden Girls Deep Dive Podcast discussion group. We're all best friends in there. We're hanging out every single day. Keep those reviews coming on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Yeah. And if you have ideas of things you want us to do deep dives on and you want to drop us an email, what's that email address, girl? It's info at goldengirlsdeepdive.com. And Steve sees them all and he makes sure that they get to us. So we are taking your marching orders. We're going to do whatever you want. And you know what, Cheesecakes? We promise we will never leave you for dead and dump you in front of a hospital. No, no. But we will say

thank you for being a friend by telling a friend about our show. About our podcast. About our podcast. Oh, God. We love you, Cheesecake. Love you. Bye.