On Golden Girls (Season 1, Episode 6)
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Hi, Jennifer Simard. Hello, Patrick. Hi. Cheesecakes. I want to say again, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for the Apple podcast and Spotify reviews. I know you are as an actor. You're not a review reader. Right. But I'm going through and I'm reading them. They're saying the nicest things. And it really helps people find the show. It helps people decide if they want to listen to the show. So keep those coming. Cheesecakes. Yeah, we really appreciate it. And like I said last week, even though I'm not a reader, I'm a lover.

And I love you all. Also, you know what, Patrick? You want to tell them a little bit about what the show's about for those people who don't know? So on the Golden Girls Deep Dive podcast, we do our funny and hilarious episode recaps and sprinkle throughout. We've got little mini deep dives and trivia and hot gossip and all the facts. We've got a full-time researcher named Jess who helps us research the episodes. We also research

them on our own. And then at the end of the episode, we do a full deep dive on something from the Golden Girls universe. So you're doing the deep dive today. What are you doing? Oh my gosh. I get to have the honor of doing a deep dive on Herb Edelman, who's the actor who plays our beloved Stacey.

I'm so excited. Do you have all the good information on Stan? I have all the good information. Yay! And I just love him as an actor. He's so perfect in this part, isn't he? He is. I mean, there's literally nobody better. No notes. I can't imagine anybody. No notes. No notes. Also, Cheesecakes, we wanted to ask you, a lot of people have been, you know, casually writing us questions or suggestions about things they want to know about. Yes. So to make it more official, go ahead and write us. Here's our email address. Info at goldengirlsdeepdive.com. That's info at goldengirlsdeepdive.com. Discover!

Yeah, let us know the deep dives you want to do. If there are things that you have in like episodes that are coming up that you want to make sure we hit, send them to us. Steve monitors the inbox. He'll make sure that we see them. And lastly, join the Facebook group. It's the Golden Girls Deep Dive Podcast Discussion Group on Facebook.

There's over a thousand people in there already. We're having the time of our lives in there, making friends, sharing the memes, talking about the episodes, just like sharing the love of all things Golden Girls. That's right. And Patrick and I both post pictures of our cleavage every now and then. That is true. That is absolutely true. Cheesecakes, I got to tell you what's going on. We're on episode six. Jennifer Simard-

Broadway royalty comes to us directly from rehearsal for the show she's going to be starring in in Chicago. And then on Broadway, death becomes her. And we're recording at 7 p.m. I'm usually in bed by this hour. Me too. I'm never up this late. Oh, Patrick, I've been getting home from rehearsal. It's 6.59. By 8 o'clock, I'm in bed. I mean, face is washed. The moisturizer is on.

on. I have some nice, probably an old Dateline episode, perhaps, you know, some terrible crime to fall asleep to. It's awful. Like everybody in a Broadway show works hard, but you are starring in this show. And I know, I don't know, because I've weirdly, well, I did start a Broadway show once for one night only. But I mean, I cannot imagine what it would take. I'm just in awe that you're here. I'm complaining about being tired, but not for any good reason.

Well, today we're talking about season one, episode six. It's called On Golden Girls. Isn't it strange? I really don't understand the title. I don't either. On Golden Pond. That's what I was trying to say. It's something about, I think, that the nephew treats them like they're geriatrics or something. Is that what it is? It's definitely the whole, the issues that come up with aging, you know? Oh, all right. Well, so this originally aired October 26, 1985. It was written by Liz Smith.

I didn't write down the director, did you? I did, Jim Drake. Jim Drake. We've seen Jim before. We have. I love that all these episodes are always directed by men. Where are the lady directors? Oh, well, 1985. But, you know, Patrick, a lot of interesting things happened around this time. A lot of events. Yeah. I love that we will discuss what was going on in the world around the time of the launch of the episode. So tell us. Yeah, well, some of them, just in terms of the songs, at that time, the number one song was Whitney Houston's, Hey.

For you.

Remember that? Is that right? How could I possibly forget? But there were lots of good songs. Number four, I have to say. Yeah. The Miami Vice theme. It was just instrumental, remember? By Jan Hammer. I vaguely do remember this. I mean, I listened to all of this. Oh my God. Because I was 15 years old when this happened. For me, I was going to say, on the front page of the New York Times on the day this episode came out, October 26th, it was a Saturday. One of the headlines on the front page was, "'State permits closing of bathhouses to cut AIDS.'"

I think it is so, so interesting that the launch of the Golden Girls really coincided with when AIDS was really not brand new, but when people were really dying and we were really starting to really understand what this thing was going to be.

And the closing of the bathhouses, I'm a little bit of a very amateur gay historian, so I kind of know a bit about this stuff. The closing of the bathhouses was a really big deal because, you know, I looked it up today. We knew that by this point, scientists knew that AIDS was a sexually transmitted disease.

And I know just from my history that that was a very hard thing to convince the gay community of because the fact that it was a sexually transmitted disease and was really hitting the gay community hard, they wanted to do things like closing the bathhouses. And the bathhouses were really a place that the gay community saw as

as an expression of liberation and as a place to go meet other gay people. And the gays really felt that this was discriminatory. They didn't necessarily believe that AIDS was a sexually transmitted disease because the scientists understood it, but it wasn't very easy to communicate that to the gays. And so the gays were not in favor of this. It was a really, really bad, scary, horrible time. It was only a 60-day permit, but they were closing the bathhouses and it was very upsetting. And this really got me thinking about

People are always asking why the Golden Girls is so beloved by the gay community. And of course, the themes of like chosen family and all of that, that's a major part of it. But it really got me thinking, October 26, 1985, gays were dying left, right and center. You know, people at this time will talk about going to 10, 12 funerals a week. Billy Porter, he'll talk about it. Go Google Billy Porter talking about this time. Harvey Fierstein, you know, anybody who survived

I really got to thinking that like they were having a horrible weeks. And then on Saturday night, they would come home and watch the Golden Girls. It was an escape. It was an escape and it was comfort. And I think that it is in the DNA of gay people for this show to be a comfort show because it was a comfort show at the time.

I love that. You know, it really just occurred to me today that like, yeah, people were seeking out the love they saw in this show as a comfort from the 10, 12, 25 funerals they went to that week. Oh, my gosh. So anyway, not to bring the room down. No, but no, it's very important. And I love your thought process. And I thought it was really important that you go there. Thank you. You know, yeah. But if you don't want to bring the room down, I can bring it up for a hot second. Please.

Just because we're musical theater people on October 13th of this year. So like the like 10, like nine, 12 days before that. Because math. Yeah, that sounds good. Sunday in the Park with George closed at the Booth Theater on Broadway after 604 performances.

Wow. That was at this time. And the last thing I'll say, you true crime lover, is number one at the box office at this time, October 26, 1985, was Jagged Edge, starring Glenn Close and Jeff Bridges. Have you seen it? No, but you know, my mom... You have to go. You'll love this film. Really? Yes. She plays an attorney who's defending him and

Wow. I'll leave it there. Can I give a little plug for my book here? So my book is called Failure is Not Not an Option. It's like 12 funny stories from my life. My mom and Glenn Close were very good friends at the time in my mom's life when she came out. And for years in my family, for decades, the question was like, did my mom and Glenn Close do it? I tracked Glenn Close down at a party and asked her. Oh, my God. I got an answer from Glenn Close herself. What was it? Well, you have to read the book to find out. Okay. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

And I have the book. You gifted me the book. Of course. I'm such a good friend. Have you read it? Have I read it? No. 90% of the people in my life, I'm like, what did you think of my book? Well, I haven't quite gotten to it yet. Get it on Audible. It's easier to digest it that way. It's me reading it. So should we dive in? Let's dive in. Let's dive in.

So we open in the kitchen. Sophia is cooking. Dorothy is at the table. We're going to learn that she is furiously studying for a French exam. I know, trying to better herself. Trying to better herself. I really love it when Bea Arthur, of all of them, is the one who leans into the background acting more than any of the rest. She is mouthing the words. She is writing furiously in her notebook. She's really committed to the bit. Oh, yeah. And Sophia is separating eggs, I think, at the kitchen island. And I just want to say how

unsafe that toaster looks. It's like plugged under what's basically a two by four. The island is a two by four piece of wood, you know, and the toaster looks like it's from 1972. They eventually get a bigger island. Yeah, but for now. And it's always Sophia who's banished to the island because there's famously only ever three seats at the table. Right. I want to also say there's a coffee pot taken out of the coffee maker and put

on the table on like a towel in a way that would never happen. It wouldn't happen. Think about the coffee maker in your kitchen. Would you ever take the coffee pot out of the maker and put it on a towel on the table? It just wouldn't happen. I would not. And here too, we do have a continued bathrobe extravaganza, our apron extravaganza. Yes, yes. Should we talk about the apron count? You were texting me, like you've done such a deep dive on the number of aprons and bathrobes. I said, Patrick, I couldn't stand it anymore. I

I did a to date apron tally. Did you go back through every episode one through six? I did. I said, so since episode two, we've had nine aprons with only one repeat offender, which is Sophia's yellow number. Yes. And in episode six alone, we have four different aprons. Oh,

Just in this episode we're doing today. We were talking off mic about how we get really long scenes in this episode. And in the bedroom scene with Ma and Dorothy, they are back in their bathrobes from the 1800s up to their necks. Do women really sleep in bathrobes from neck to ankle? I mean, everything goes in phases, right? And I do remember, I would say it's a little bit earlier, like 1981. I do remember these long nightgowns and stuff like that. Doesn't it get all caught up?

under you when you're trying to turn. I mean, I don't like it. And in fact, I didn't do the tally, but I did send you pictures of the different bathrooms and pajamas. Yes. So that number's coming at you real soon. I gotta say, there's a lot of this episode takes place at night and in the morning. So they're in their bathroom. They're in their jammies a lot in this one. They're so comfortable.

I'm living for it because you just know they're like, oh, I can have so much craft service today. In your Girls 5 episode, weren't you in jammies most of the time? I wasn't in jammies, but I was in wide palazzo pants. You looked very comfortable. Yes, sweaters, lots of blankets. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, Blanche enters, and I gotta say, Rue McClanahan is really perfecting her ability to enter a room's shoulders first.

Why do these things always happen to me? I'm just a wreck. I don't know what I'm going to do. Blanche, we go through this every morning. Now admit it, you have cellulite. I am not talking about cellulite, which I don't have. I am talking about my daughter, Janet. I just got off the phone with her. She's having marital troubles. I said Blanche enters in full narcissism.

That is so well said. She's very upset. Yep. Because why do these things always happen to her? She's just a wreck. She doesn't know what she's going to do. And Dorothy says, Blanche, we go through this every morning. Just admit it. You have cellulite. Cellulite's not like a word we say anymore. No, it really came out of left field. But I love that they did it because...

You know, majority of women have cellulite, even if you're skinny. So she says she's not talking about cellulite. She's talking about her daughter, Janet, who's having marital troubles, but they're trying to work it out. They're going to go to Hawaii for a second honeymoon. They're going to do that. And right around this time, too, we get a close-up of Dorothy for the first time. And I have to say, she looks realistic in this scene. You know, we're talking about how they're normally in full beat. Oh, and Rose is in this episode is the worst offender. She still is. But Dorothy has...

has that no makeup makeup look. And I was, you know, I thought it was really good. And she's very honest. Like when Blanche explains that the 14 year old son has to stay with them. While Janet and the husband, who we are about to find out is a Yankee, are going to be in Hawaii for two weeks, they're leaving Blanche's 14 year old grandson with them. And now I just want to say, Rose is always so excited to have the children around.

Yeah. I love my daughter and I'm sure I will love her kids. But when I am that age, I'm not watching your kid for two weeks. I'm just not doing it. This is what I have here is that Dorothy, while looking great in her no makeup makeup look, is honest in a way that I think most people would be. She says, you know, she's like, no, I should be upset. How am I supposed to study for my French final with a 14 year old in the house? Yeah. And I'm like...

Like, absolutely. I told you, Patrick, that I would be that roommate who's in my room for two weeks with the door locked. Like, I'd get a mini fridge so I wouldn't even have to go to the kitchen. Wait, do you hate kids? Um, I don't. That wasn't a quick no. It wasn't a quick no. It's not a quick no and a yes. It's, um, do I hate kids? No. No.

Are you glad you don't have them? But I'm really glad I don't have them. Yeah. What I was going to say was, like, speaking of Blanche entering with her narcissism, it never occurred to her to ask her roommates if it was okay if her nephew came to stay for two weeks? No, seriously. It's her house, but they are paying her rent. And at what point does it cease to be your house? I mean, like, I guess you're the landlord, but you— Especially because you're going to be asking them to, like, Dorothy's got to go bunk with her mom now for two weeks. I have this, like, not only bunk with her mom, in a full-size bed. I know.

I mean, Dorothy is longer than the bed. You know? Yes. No, it's wild. Like, couldn't they have gone to Dorothy's room? Like, why are they in monster? I know. Because, you know, Dorothy's got a California king. She has to. And she sleeps the other way, you know? Yeah.

She's like diagonally. Or starfish across the whole bed. But they're talking about like Blanche is nervous. Like, what am I possibly going to do with him? And so they start listing things they can do. And of course, Rose, to your point, is just so positive about everything. And, you know, she says, there are plenty of things to do down here. We can take him to Disney World, the Seaquarium, the Everglades. Rambo. The movie.

with Sly Stallone. I sat through it twice, you'll love it. He sweats like a pig and he doesn't put his shirt on. You can go see Rambo, that movie with Sly Stallone. Which clearly, it feels like she's seen a bunch of times and we find out that Sofia's seen it twice. Yeah.

I'm trying to imagine Sophia Petrillo, like, taking the bus downtown to the mall to, like, go watch Rambo on her own twice. And we know later that she went on a Stelgeti that is to star in a film with him called Stop or My Mom Will Shoot. Yeah. Here's a spoiler. It's terrible. Did you see it? No.

No, I never saw it. We're going to do a whole deep dive on Estelle Getty's film career because she has a pretty good film career after The Golden Girls. But Sly Stallone was saying that the problem was they wanted it to be like Throw Mama from the Train. But Estelle Getty, as we know from her deep dive, was the most liked person on TV at the time. So they just couldn't make her unlikable and that's why it flopped. Well, she was unlikable enough to get a Golden Raspberry Award. Yeah.

So did he. And so did the screenplay as well. But I do want to ask you this, Patrick. Yeah. Do you know that I was a card-carrying member of the Sylvester Stallone fan club? Like literally card-carrying. Literally card-carrying. Have you seen the porno that he did in the 70s? Yes, I have. Are you kidding? You answered that like a gay man. You answered that very fast. I'm sorry. He was born July 6, 1946. What do you want to know? I don't know.

Oh, my God. Yeah. There was this guy named Tony Manafo, who is a producer, since deceased, God rest his soul. And I hope I'm saying his name right. But I remember I signed up for this fan club in one of those little magazines that you had, and I got my card. But on the card, it said, and just so you know, if you run into Tony, Tony will try to set up a rendezvous with Sly. Really? So my little kid brain thought,

where can I find Tony? So I would take my bike and go down to like the country store in my little farm town. Like, is Tony here? Like, where's Tony? Because I got to get to, I got to get to the big guy. I got to be sly. I got to, he sweats like a pig and he doesn't put his shirt on, according to Sophia. So anyway. Oh my God. That is so funny.

So next scene, Dorothy's in the living room reading. Sophia enters and she just says, It's not going to work. I'm not sharing my room. Oh, Ma, Ma, I'm not thrilled with the arrangement either. But for the two weeks that David is here, we'll make do. Sure, it's easy for you. I'm not the one who snores. I do not snore. Please, I'll bet less disgusting noises come out of Ernest Borgnine.

Now, two things about this. There is absolutely no way on earth that Dorothy Spornack does not snore so loud that it wakes up the entire house. Oh, yeah. She absolutely snores. She's a snorer. Even louder than my husband, which is loud. That's dangerous.

Number two, I didn't really know who Ernest Borgnine was. So I looked him up. He's an American actor who has a career that spans six decades. Fine. He won an Academy Award in 1956. Fine. Whatever. He was apparently a cranky, volatile old bastard. He was married five times. His third marriage was to actress Ethel Merman in 1964. The marriage lasted only 42 days. And Merman's description of the marriage in her autobiography was a solitary blank page. Which...

When she wrote about her marriage to Ernest Borgnine, she was like, my marriage went like this. And it was a blank page. And later, Borgnine's friend Tim Conway later said, Ernie is volatile. I mean, there's no question about that. And Ethel was a very strong lady. So you put two bombs in a room, something is going to explode. And I guess it probably did. Now, I went to tell my husband this story. He told me, he's like, you're going to tell me the Ethel Merman in the blank page. And I was like, how did you know that? He's like, because I'm gay.

He apparently used to also Dutch oven her. Do you know what that means? Yes, I do. He would like get under the blankets and like fart. You don't do that to Ethel Merman. Ethel Merman does that to you. I do want to say this about this scene too. Here, I wanted to say drum roll Patrick because Dorothy's outfit is beautiful.

She's wearing nice white plaques, a white shirt with a light gray salt blazer with an aqua and indigo lapel trim. I mean, she looked really nice. That's what studying French has done for her. Those French women are so stylish.

I was going to say, we hear her say some French in the final scene, and I was expecting it to sound ridiculous. It sounds kind of sexy. You know, with that low... With that low baritone. You know what I mean? So Rose comes in. This is funny to me, right? She's like, I just fixed a special treat for David. Yeah.

It's the same little after-school snack I used to make for my own son. A triple-decker BLT and a hearty helping of homemade potato salad and a great big slice of double chocolate fudge cake. And Dorothy has the best line of the episode. Oh, where was he going after school? The electric chair? No!

The electric chair. I have in front. This is a great joke, Liz. It's a good joke. It's so, so funny. Do you know that I've often wondered what I would have for my final meal if I was on death row? Oh, do you know what? I think I know what it would be. It's not changed since I was like 10 and I started contemplating this. A 20 piece chicken McNugget with. Wait, wait.

I know. I can have anything. Let's go back. I know. Talk about my friend Patrick now. I can have anything in the world. It's a 20-piece chicken McNugget from McDonald's with hot mustard sauce, a large fry, and a shamrock shake. That is the saddest thing. Tell me you were a poor kid raised by lesbians without. I know, but also, like, this isn't your lucky day, but I'll have a shamrock shake. Maybe the governor will come in at the last moment. Totally. Totally.

I mean, a 20-piece chicken nugget with hot mustard sauce. It's what I want to have right before I meet Jesus. I know mine. What is it? Do you want to know mine? Yeah. It's one of my mom's recipes. I still make it on special occasions. Wow. You're going to make your mother cook for you right before they put you in the chair? No, I make it now. Okay. It's in her recipe. My mother's dead, Patrick. I know that. She's dead. Yeah. Let's talk about my dead mom. Jesus.

She died nine years ago. I'm just imagining that you were on death row, like in your 20s. Mom. And you're like, Mom, can I need you to fire up the grill one more time? No, but I asked my mother. I said, the one thing I want, I want a book of the family recipes because food is family and memories to me. So it's chicken with crab meat stuffing and this beautiful mushroom sauce and rice and baby peas. Will you put the recipe in the Facebook group?

Or is it just a Jen Family recipe? No, you don't have to put it in the Facebook group. No, maybe I will. Maybe I'll make it for you first and you tell me if it's good enough to put in the Facebook group. Oh my God, I'm dying. I can't wait. So Blanche enters in the front door. She's in a tizzy, Patrick. Yes, she's freaking out. She doesn't know where David is. He wasn't on the plane. My favorite part is Sophia...

We have a lost 14-year-old. His parents are in Hawaii. His home life is falling apart. We don't know where he is. We know he's not here. And Sophia jumps up and says, come on, Dorothy, I'll help you move your things back to your room. Yep. Not concerned. Oh, well. So the doorbell rings. Yes. And...

Lo and behold, it's David. And so David is there, like, backed by a cop. And it turns out David stowed away in the airplane bathroom when the plane landed in Miami. Authorities picked him up in the duty-free shop in Freeport, the Bahamas. Now, I looked up the actor who played the cop. Okay. His name is John Hostetter. And listen.

Listen to this. This guy got a graduate degree in acting from Cornell University, then toured the country with the National Shakespeare Company, and then went on to work in Hollywood for 24 years, never made it. You know what I mean? I do know what you mean. He had a beautiful life. He was married to his wife for 41 years until the day he died in 2016, by which point they had retired in a little beach community in Florida where he had taken up painting. She had him cremated, spread his ashes in the Atlantic Ocean. No, he had a beautiful life, but like...

he never got famous. Well, that's most stories. That's wild. I know. He had all the education and bona fides. I know. It just doesn't happen for one. And do you know how hard it was probably for him to book the role of the cop? I know. How many auditions do you think he went on? Oh, God. Hundreds. I mean,

I mean, honestly. Yeah, I know. In a year. And then it's random. It's so random. Yeah. And I did a little deep dive on the actor who played our David. Yes. His name is Billy Jane. Yes. This is a fun fact. He's the brother to the actor who played Dorothy's son, Michael. I know. In three episodes. I thought the son, and I'm not objectifying anybody here, but from the time I was a kid and I watched The Golden Girls, the man who plays Dorothy's son, I think is

so physically beautiful. Okay. And I looked him up today on Instagram. He's still with us. He's still doing great. Okay. But I remember like having the biggest crush on him. Really? I also like know this actor, Billy Jane. Like I know him from other things. Uh-huh. Now you have a crush on his brother, not Billy. Yes, correct. Yeah. Billy is, this freaked me out. He's only a year older than me. He still looks great too. He's running a digital content business in LA now. Get it?

Billy Jane. I know. He's like doing really well. All right. But when he was younger, I know him from a movie called Just One of the Guys, which is a movie that would never be made today. Why? Well, in the 80s, it was a movie about a young woman who like was a reporter and like an attempt to battle sexism and not be like just be seen for her body. She like cuts her hair and wears boys clothes and goes to a high school and like registers as a boy student to like see what it would be like to like live as a boy and like

It's too convoluted with like gendered understanding of gender norms and all of that. You could never make that movie now, but nor should you necessarily. But I remember him from that. I never saw that movie. When I was in high school, it was like on HBO all the time. And so like it was weirdly always on. You wouldn't recommend going back and watching it. I watched the preview for it today. And like they make the pitch that it's a movie about feminism or whatever, which is great. I just think that like it's cringy now, you know, like anything from back then. For sure. No, I get it.

So he's explaining that, you know, hey, it's no big deal. I went to the bathroom. Next thing you know, I'm in the Bahamas, right? He's got a story for everything. Blanche really wants to thank the cop. Oh, I just don't know how to thank you, officer, but I would like to try. I'm usually at Wally's for happy hour on Tuesdays. Blanche! Blanche!

You know, Patrick, I looked up if there was a Wally's. Did you? I couldn't find anything now. Yeah. I welcome any of the cheesecakes to correct me, but I'm going to text you a picture of something I found called Club Wally. Was it in Miami? In Miami in the 50s. Oh, my God. And the address is right on the

And from what I can ascertain now, it's just luxury apartment buildings. And I'm also going to send you that picture. Oh, my God. But Club Wally. And I looked for maybe an hour and I couldn't find when the place closed. Oh, my God. Those condos look gorgeous. I know.

Screw Club Wally. Blanche is like, I'm at my new luxury apartment at 151 Southeast 3rd Ave. It's just hard to imagine Blanche frolicking at a happy hour. You know what I mean? Except remember that bar cart we had a couple weeks ago. I'm glad to know they can drink. We're going to have some cocktails. They have like a tiki party at the end of this episode. So Blanche tells David she should give him a good talking to, but she's so happy that he's there. She's willing to overlook this. She introduces him to the roommates. Dorothy!

you can tell is skeptical. He does this like weird cool kid handshake with Rose that catches Rose off guard. It's going to come back at the end. He makes the joke, this first ages joke. You know, David, I went to the Bahamas once. Oh yeah? Was it on the Nina the Pinter or the Santa Maria? It was a DC-10. I don't think it had a name.

And Dorothy does one of those laughs like, I'm going to let this one slide. Oh, you. Because we are old, you guys. So she doesn't know yet how disrespectful he is. That's right. And then he says he's going to grab a bite to eat. He saw a burger joint around the corner. Looked like there were some kids there. This kid is 14 years old. My big note here is, but what about the feast Rose made for him? I'm dying for that triple-decker BLT. And to your point, Patrick, the way she says it, I planned a special meal for you, David.

It's just like, it's like, it's like a run episode of Lassie or something. She's so into it. I know. And he says, you know, he's like making his way out the door. He says, tomorrow, I love leftovers. Blanche asks him when he's going to be back. He says, depends on how late the guys from Miami Vice want to party. And then he just leaves. And, you know, my big note here is like, I dare Daisy's kid to try to pull this shit with me. You know what I mean? I do. Like, absolutely.

Absolutely not. That being said, I don't think you'd react like Sophia. What do you think? Okay, so like I got to tell you, I have a lot of issues with this episode. Yeah. And I spent a lot of time on the internet like seeing if it was just me because Blanche says I should have given him some money and Sophia says you should have given him a smack. Now, I understand it was 1985. It was different back then. But like Blanche says very clearly, and I think this is the crux of the issue. You should have given him a smack. I don't believe in hitting children.

Personally, I like to lay into a kid with a melon baller. It's got a nice weight, balance in the hand, and it's portable.

This is a joke about child abuse. Right. And they tried to soften it by making it a melon baller. You know, they tried to throw something funny in there to minimize the fact that it is physical assault. Because I think the idea is like, oh, they're Italians and they beat their kids. Like that actually gets said later in the episode. Like when we get there, when this slap eventually happens, it's very not OK. And I have written after that, Patrick, I don't believe Blanche doesn't believe in hitting children. Yeah.

Do you know what I mean? Totally. Like, I believe Dorothy doesn't and I believe Rose doesn't. Yes. Well, because you would think based on this episode that Dorothy was beaten within an inch of her life by her mother every day of her growing up. I know.

You know, break the cycle, ladies. Oh, man. So Rose tells them that her father used to punish them by sending them to the dairy barn to milk Alice. And everyone's like, well, you grew up on a farm. Like, what's so terrible about that? You had to milk Alice sitting on a stool. I thought you always milked a cow sitting on a stool. No, no. Alice had to sit on a stool. You see, she was involved in this nasty plowing accident. Oh.

It was during spring planning and daddy had hitched her up to the plow because poor old Toby had gotten a fever and gone deaf. And Patrick, when I first heard this, I thought Alice was a person. Like Alice from the Brady Bunch? Just a woman. Like they're milking a woman. I'm sorry. I'm embarrassed to admit that. But that was my image. I was like, that is horrible. And also child abuse. And illegal. Right. It's abusive.

abuse all the way around. Liz, the writing of this joke is kind of perfect. Not only the writing, but the acting because I have here that Dorothy's response played by Bea Arthur was so subtle. I said, she must have watched the dailies by this point because this was beautiful Rosie acting. Not Rosie. But she says, Rose, Rose, Rose, sweetheart, save the story. When David comes back, tell him that can be his punishment. And Rose fully accepts it. She's like, you know what? That does sound like it would be a good punishment for him.

So it's the next scene. We were talking a lot about this scene before we started. It's in Sophia's room. And this scene goes on longer because it's season one that I think it would in subsequent episodes down the line where it was more of like a laugh factory situation. A lot of things to say about it and we'll get there. But for one thing, they do say the good night, mom. Good night. Good night, mom. Good night. They do that five times. Five good nights. Is that right?

Yeah. And I think a lot of things about that comedy is in odd numbers, threes and fives. So we're good there. But also this is a very touching scene. And, you know, I don't know everyone's relationship with their mothers, but I can guarantee you that plenty of mother and daughters who were watching this show and you think of an older demographic, women who are missing their moms who have passed. I mean, that's how I relate to it. I mean, when they go on and on in this whole section about the memories of childhood and crawling into bed, it's like everyone has a memory like

that and or most people. And, you know, it's really touching. Going back to the whole thing about like the gays dying of AIDS in 1985, like think about like the gay men who maybe have lost their relationship with their parents and like and this is so touching to them as well. Like it's why this show it's universal. Yeah. And it's why they were so smart to make a show about older women. Like, you know, today was the day I was researching my deep dive on Susan Harris. And one of the things that she talks about was that old people have stories. It's why it's more interesting to write about old people than it is to write about young people.

I would agree with that. And there's something safe about that, too. But anyway, getting back to the actual scene, it of course starts for comedic effect like none other. And Estelle Getty is doing the actor's version of making noise with every object she can find. Nail filing, moisturizer, tissues, everything's loud. And the two of them, we talk about their nightgowns a lot. They're in the Nina and Pinta Santa Maria nightgowns. The prototype. They're in the prototype of nightgowns. And in this scene, I have to say, Patrick, you really see...

a close-up without her glasses of Estelle Getty's age makeup near her eyes. You can really see the makeup, how they've aged her, which I thought was interesting. It's true. Dorothy's studying, because remember, she's studying for that French final. I just kept equating this to like a marriage. Like, you know what I mean? Like, when I'm in bed with my husband at night and he like makes any sound, it's infuriating. Or I make any sound or whatever, like because they're trapped in a room together. And then at one point, like Sophia starts to

slapping the back of her hand, like right in Dorothy's face and ear. And you're like, you can feel the tension building. It's really, it's great. And finally, Dorothy just can't stand the noise anymore. And just as she's like confronting her mother about the noise, Sophia's now pulling chin hairs out of her chin. Oh God. When she finally does go over to bed though, Sophia, that is, I have to say, Patrick, if you look closely, she goes to hit a wall sconce light on the wall and turn it off. And I looked closely. There's 100% not a button on that sconce.

That was the electrician on set turning off the light. Thanks, Jerry. Thanks, Jer.

And after making all that noise, Sophia has the audacity to have an issue with the sound that Dorothy's pencil is making in her notebook. Yeah, I mean, because she's making the point that like Dorothy is such a bookworm. Dorothy wants an A. She doesn't just want to pass. And Sophia's like, you've been like this all your life. And then Dorothy finally says, I give up. And she goes and gets into bed. Now, as she's sitting down and Sophia's saying to her, like, look at me, I can tell you're about to get a cold. I'm realizing how many layers there are to this nightgown that she's wearing. Yeah.

And I'm just thinking, like, on cold nights when I wear a t-shirt and sweatpants, I know that is a nightmare in and of itself, just, like, turning over and the t-shirt's too big. Like, you are not going to be able to move in that thing. If you were to throw Dorothy in a river in what she's wearing, she would drown. She would sink like a witch. Oh!

Oh, God, that's funny. Well, they finally settle in and Dorothy. And again, we have another great comedy comes in threes moment where Dorothy says, you know, what is that smell? I was thinking we were going to get our first Sophia fart joke. I know. Which become abundant in later seasons. Yes, yes. But of course, she's like, I don't smell anything. Are you wearing something? And then with great pauses in between, Sophia says. What's that smell? I don't smell anything. Are you wearing something? A little Bengay on my knees.

A little Vicks on my chest. A little DP'd on my neck. What are you trying to do? Pickle yourself so you'll live to be 100? I will say, not the first best because she could have ended with pickle yourself. Yeah. Right? Totally. No, these jokes are good. They're very good. They're very good. So we have this whole series here of tossing and turning. What's the noise you're making? Post nasal drip. It goes on and on. I mean...

I was personally traumatized by like that sound. Yeah. Like the sniffing and the snorting and the, you know, I will say for me, the hardest thing about marriage is dealing with your person's sleep noises. You know what I mean? But we're leading up to, I think, the kind of sweet section that we were talking about earlier. Yes. And Dorothy is saying, you know, we haven't slept like this together since I was a little girl. And Sophia says, thank God. But then they get into this whole thing about how like she would climb into

bed with her mom when she would have a bad dream. Like my daughter still does this. My daughter is 10 and she'll still come and climb it. And I know we're getting to that point where it's going to stop very soon. And it makes me sad. I'll crawl in your bed. Thank you. Oh my God. Oh, that would be just as lovely. But it really gets cute. And Sophia remembers. You were so cute. You were always so polite when you woke me.

Mommy, I'm having a bad dream. Could I come in? I felt so safe with you. Listen, I felt safe with you when you were three. Mommy, I'm having a bad dream. Could I come in? The idea that at three years old, she's a baritone. So funny. She takes it in stride. She doesn't even know. I felt so safe with you.

And then again, listen, I felt safe with you when you were three. Which is a joke that doesn't even get a laugh from the audience. It doesn't even get a laugh, but it's really good. It's so funny.

Oh, and here's something, Patrick. Dorothy says, and you always used to smell from Midnight in Paris perfume. And I had to look it up. Oh, is it a real thing? Well, apparently the real Midnight in Paris, it was a men's fragrance by Van Cleef & Arpels. It's discontinued. And most people think what she was probably referring to was a perfume that existed called Evening in Paris.

like Bourgeois Soir de Paris. It's still manufactured. And in the 1930s and 40s, it had a vanilla nutty smell. The 50s and 60s, it was light floral. And the modern mix is sort of a version of both mixed together.

Lovely. At the end of the scene, Sophia says, good night, pussycat. And I think that's the first time we hear Sophia say it. I asked, is that the first time we get there? Because we later learn why she says it. Oh, I don't remember. Oh, yeah. Something about like, mom, why do you always call me pussycats? Because I love pussycats and I love you. Oh,

I think it's something like that. Well, we heard Pussycat in the episode where they were babysitting that kid for a couple days. Like, Rose says it. So I was thinking, like, maybe it's a Susan Harris thing or whatever. But anyway, the moment is broken because we hear insanely loud music coming from the living room and everyone is up and running out to the living room. We do. We hear that. And I think we've touched upon Sophia's purse. But I have to give full credit to Estelle Getty because as I was going back looking at the apron...

situation. You know, she's had her purse with her in the most incongruous settings, no matter what. And I think it's such a forward thinking actor moment. Oh, yeah. You know, like she bought the purse, right? The actress. But I mean, just the idea that Sophia takes her purse with her no matter what, it makes me think, is this her hospital to go bag? Like what is in there? It's a gun. You know, she'll take it to the lanai. It's the middle of

the night. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She's in her bathrobe, but gosh darn it, she's going to grab that purse. It's just so funny. That is, I didn't even notice. So subtle. Because you're an actor, I feel like maybe you noticed. I didn't even notice that. Yeah, yeah. So they go out there. David is out there with a bunch of young boys in the living room eating pizza. They're all jamming out to this music.

as though they're all stoned. It's very weird. I know, this boombox. Boombox, oh my God. Like, children, if you don't know what that is, go give it a goog. But Blanche turns off the boombox and says, like, ask David what's going on. And David said he couldn't sleep. He got up to go out for a pizza, made some new friends, and decided to have a party. Come back to my grandmother's house. And it was all so unrealistic, this party, I have to say. Wasn't it? Like, there's a number of just, like, 14-year-old boys just hanging out at the pizza place.

pizza place in Miami. And Dorothy, I love how Dorothy phrases this. She says, David, this is an inconvenience. You need to ask your friends to leave. It feels very undaught to me. I feel like she would be the one picking up the pizza boxes and hitting the boys over the head and forcing them out of the house. We'll get there, you know, sort of, right? She gets mad pretty quickly, rightly so. But yeah, she pauses. She sees the friend with a rat

tale. You know, David tells, you know, relax, loosen up. Life's too short, especially for you guys. Yeah. Blanche says, David. And Sophia says, what, Patrick? I'll get the melon ball up. Oh, dear. So some blonde kid says, take it easy, ladies. Don't get your support hose in a knot. Now, I had to do a little bit of a deep dive on this kid. Did you, too? A little bit. Yes. So his name is Carl Wiedergott. And I found out that he made his professional stage debut in Torch Song Trilogy.

Oh, my gosh. And the national tour. So he had worked with Estelle Getty. Now, I couldn't find anywhere that it said that she got him this gig, but she probably got him this gig. Oh, I'm sure. I didn't know that. That's wonderful. Oh, and also, didn't we find out that the producers, they all saw the show. So they saw him, too. That's true. You're right. Because they did bring him back to play a homeless man in a future episode of season four, episode eight, Brother, Can You Spare That Jacket? I mean, those Christmas episodes are ridiculous. I cannot wait to get there. They are so...

so absurd. It's unbelievable. But yeah, he made his professional stage debut playing David, the son of the Harvey Fierstein character in Torchton Trilogy. I did not know that. That's great. So Dorothy throws them all out and she says, if anything's missing, I'll give your names to every narc in the city. Except, Dorothy, you don't have their names, girl. You know what I mean? That's a very good point. It's kind of an empty threat, Dot. But,

You know? But just as she says that, the blonde kid turns around and hands them a snow globe. Like, of all the things you could have told... I think it's an atomizer. Oh, is it? I really tried to look. Yeah. I think it's one of Blanche's little... Blanche is always perfuming herself. Well, we went over this last week, right? Yes.

So many sprays. Always perfuming. 75 blush brushes. So we're coming to the climax, right? David says, why don't you clean up the mess yourself? What's the big deal? We were just having some fun. Those happen to be my friends you just threw out. No, he makes the point of like, look, what he did was wrong. He should not have brought those. I mean, obviously, you don't bring like strange kids into your grandmother's house with like four old ladies sleeping. Like very dangerous situation. But also what bullshit? Those are my friends that I met five seconds ago. Five seconds ago. Yeah. But anyway, Dorothy says...

You know something? I am having a real problem with your attitude. Oh, really? Well, you can all just kiss my attitude. That is some writing right there. And then Sophia slaps him. And one audience member leads the applause. I know. I know. And those lemmings just join right in. I feel like that applause sign was flashing. For sure. You know what I mean? For sure. Because, like, I...

I feel like I could talk about this for the next two hours. Blanche has established in the previous scene, I do not believe in hitting children. If that were my grandson, Dorothy and her mother would be out on the sidewalk the next day. What she did to me is so, so, so wrong. It actually is so uncomfortable to watch even like on a sitcom. Like NBC went on many, many, many years later to make a whole TV show called The Slap.

I never watched it, but my understanding is that the whole story is about a neighborhood where they were having a barbecue and one kid says something to an adult and an adult who's not his parent slaps the kid. Like, it's that polarizing of a thing to do, you know? Yeah. What's your take on it all? I don't...

I don't believe in it. I used to have more questions than answers. Like, what would I do if my child was going to touch the hot stove? Would your instinct, when you're going to grab them, be like, it ends up slapping their hand. My issue is, I don't believe in corporal punishment. When you're a child looking up at an adult...

children know the disparity of their physical power. And that is no matter how in control you may think you are as the parent, let alone the fact how many people use it as a parent when they've lost their temper or an adult when they've lost their temper. Even if you think it's in control and for their own good, the disparity between the power imbalance, it is pure terror for a child. So I am of the school under no circumstances that is appropriate.

Yeah, and I just Googled Sophia Slap Golden Girls, right? And the first thing that came up was a Reddit thread. I mean, 99% of the people on the Reddit thread were like, he had it coming. It should have been Blanche who hit him. Everybody was saying like, this is good. This is what you should have done. When I think about the canon of the Golden Girls, this is a moment that

always stands out to me as like a whoa. And now everyone is rightfully horrified. Dorothy apologizes to Blanche and says, you know, my mother never should have done that. I'm so sorry. Blanche says, And you love my Blanche, so I'll do it. Please. Is that all you Italians know how to do? Scream and hit? Ha!

That's such a good Blanche. Thank you. Sophia says, no, we also know how to make love and sing opera, which I think is a very good, funny comeback, Liz. So Blanche goes out to the lanai to talk to David. I do have a good joke to get out of this. Because they have to break it up. This is like the long day's journey into light. Night, Rose. Night, Dorothy. And she walks into her bedroom. Very good. Liz is on fire. Oh, Liz is on fire. No,

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So out on the Lanai or Cinderblock Alley, the annex to Cinderblock Alley, which I have to say, you know, they've tried to dress it up by covering it with floral vines. If you look closely, I have to say David has like a little fuzz stash. Does he? He has a little fuzz stash. And I have to say, it's like a Hitler shape. Yeah.

You have to look closely. It's really unfortunate. And also his hairstyle. I have to say, like my brother would blow his hair out like his, you know, with that tiny curl brush. Yes, I know. All the gentlemen did it. All the young teenagers did that. I was looking at this guy's Instagram today. He's still got a great head of hair, this guy. He does. And the last thing I want to say about the set design here is I love that the black red iron fence mimics prison bars for David, you know? You know? Yeah.

Totally. Nobody knows the trouble. Yeah, I mean, it's wild. So Blanche is just asking him if he's okay. And he's like, he's stunned. He's like, no one's ever hit me before. Like the other thing I was thinking, like, I know this isn't real life and I know I'm probably overthinking it and taking it too seriously. But when you're like a kid...

And somebody hits you, like your instincts might just be to react. You know, like I don't like violence. You think about it too. A kid doesn't have agency is coming up in the next scene with their finances. Right. They can't afford to take themselves and leave. Exactly. And I know that that's a huge issue. Of course. When someone else, again, the power struggle, the power dynamic, when someone else controls the

Yes. Yes. And then your physical safety is at risk. I mean, it's not fair to put any child in that position. And David says he wants to go home. And Blanche is saying you can't. There's nobody there to take care of you. And he says, I'd rather be alone there than trapped here with you. Besides, I can take care of myself. I've been doing it long enough. And so all of this is to get him to explain what his home life has been like.

Now, I guess we're assuming that David is an only child. It's clear that he is. It's funny because I'm thinking as a child of divorce myself, like I'm thinking like, did he have any allies? Did he have anybody at home? No, because I'm sure that would have come up, like there would have been a conversation in this episode that the granddaughter is going to this person or that, you know. Yeah. And he just,

He explains that his parents are fighting all the time. They don't even know that he exists. And Blanche is asking him if he's told them how he feels. And he says they wouldn't listen. And, you know, he's describing all of the things that any kid has been through. Parents who are more centered on themselves and their issues than they are taking care of their kids. It gets worked up. And, of course, he storms out. And it leads us into a very special outro intro music. That's right.

So the intro music brings us to the next morning in the kitchen. Sophia, don't worry. She's wearing a new purple pansy apron over her bathroom. You know, it's the other thing with the bathrooms that I wanted to mention before. Like, it's Miami. It's hot. I'm like, it's 100 degrees in that house with the air conditioning on. And they're just trying to make her look older, like,

Oh, she's so old all the time. Even David is wearing layers. I clocked it. Every outfit he's wearing is like a shirt with like two over shirts. And really you're like, yeah, those sound stages are freezing. Totally. Totally.

So anyway, they have a list that Dorothy has made of chores that David can do as his punishment, you know, but also give him some sort of structure that will actually make him feel good about himself. I'm like, unfortunately, that's not really how this all works. We don't undo like mental health trauma by just making them, for example, trim the hedges, mow the lawn, paint the patio furniture, wash the windows, clean out the garage and scrub the denture cup. Yeah.

Sophia, I added that. I hate doing it. That is disgusting. It's so disgusting. My dad wore dentures from the time he was like in his 30s. Oh, dear. I know. Yeah. Blanche is hemming and hawing. Blanche is the kind of parent that I kind of am, I think, where she like, you know, Steve is very good at structure. I will say I've gotten much better at structure with Daisy, but Blanche is afraid that he won't do it and he's going to hate her and

it's already bad enough and he hates his parents and I don't want her to hate me too. But authoritative parenting, they say, is very good, not authoritarian parenting. Yes, yes. And that, you know, to leave a kid completely without structure is kind of... As Rose says. I took this human growth and development class and that's what they said. I'm getting it all wrong. But that, you know, just to completely ignore your kid is not... No. That's actually worse than authoritarian. Absolutely. But, you know, Rose says... Which is not what you do, by the way. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Just so don't be like Patrick Hines, everyone. Don't you...

Rose says the idle hands are the devil's workshop. She's in another pink apron, a single rose, while she cleans the stove. I know.

Isn't that David's job? I guess so. Blanche is just saying she doesn't understand how that's going to make him feel loved. And Dorothy is saying that, like, he needs structure. So one thing he doesn't have, like, he's describing his life. Nothing is the same every day. He doesn't feel safe. So, right. And so Rose and Dorothy are encouraging her, listing the various chores that she had to do, that they had to do. Rose, of course, on the farm. Dorothy in New York City. I made the beds. I washed the dishes, scoured the plants.

pots, cleaned the bathroom, folded the laundry, took out the garbage. My, did you attend a military school? No, she lived with me. And I said, in fairness to Blanche, that does seem like a lot of chores. But honestly, that's what I do. That's my adulting. That's what, you know, that's all the stuff that you do in a New York City apartment. It's wild. Like Daisy has chores, but they're like set the table and take out the trash. And like taking out the trash means taking it down the hallway to the trash chute. It's so funny, though, when Dorothy told that story, I pictured...

the Dorothy that we meet, the young Dorothy. I pictured a much older. Yes. I pictured someone David's age. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not your daughter's age. I guess that's true. That would be too much. Because when your daughter is David's age, watch out. I know. Windows. She better do windows. I want her. She's going to be a chimney sweep. Call Aunt Jen. Aunt Jen's got things for you to do, girl. But anyway, Rose asked Sophia if they had chores in Sicily. And here's a very uncomfortable joke.

Did they have chores in Sicily? Are you kidding? They invented chores in Sicily. Crossing the street without getting pregnant was a chore in Sicily. What? You know, you and Rose have the same question. Dorothy says Rose never mentioned Sicily. And, you know, this is where Blanche is saying, like, she's having that moment of realizing, like, I grew up not having to do anything. And you can imagine Blanche's growing up with servants and people like, you know, she comes from the Deep South.

Weeping willows. Yes. Spanish moss everywhere. Oh my God, exactly. It's cat on a hot tin roof everywhere you look. But she was saying that like, I raised my daughter the same way. And so now it's my fault that David is the way that he is. And Dorothy says, oh, now Blanche, you can't blame yourself for David. And Blanche says, you're right. It's my mother's fault. And so that was her exit line. Yes. But Blanche decides like today's the day she's going to shape up and she's going to go give the list to David and make sure he starts right away. Rose is still on how do you get pregnant in Sicily? Yeah.

by just crossing the street. And Sophia says cheap Chianti and narrow streets. I'm not sure I understand the joke. Well, I think they're trying to save it from being a necessarily against your will sexual encounter. Like a sexual assault joke? Right. Because that was the implication. And I'm like, okay, well, I mean, it's still, it's on the line, man. I mean, it's like, you know, like you're,

Okay, so you're just drinking. We just watched an old lady slap a kid, so I guess anything's on the table. But it's like, you know, like that subway thing. Like, oh, I just bumped into you. I mean, come on. Right, totally. Because the whole narrow streets thing is the issue. It's like cheap Chianti and... Don't. The implication is, oh, I just brushed past you. I mean, that's... You know what's so sad? The commentary on the fact that

I didn't even understand the joke and it makes perfect sense to you. You know what I mean? Like, God damn it. Yeah. It's yeah. So next scene, it's nighttime. We see David sneaking out of a bedroom. Now, number one, he's sneaking out of Rose's bedroom. I'm going to let it go. I'm going to let it slide. But he's literally doing that cartoon tiptoe across the room. Yes. And Dorothy like a bat.

I'm going to text you a picture, Patrick. Oh, my God. Yes. Because this has to happen in real time. We're pausing. Hold on. All right, Patrick. So not only does Dorothy appear from the kitchen to the living room wearing for the first time since the pilot episode, the blue pajamas and that really beautiful bathrobe. But more importantly, hitting send. OK. We have barefoot Dorothy. Look at those. Look at those flippers. Oh, my God.

Oh, my God. Those are baked potatoes. If I've ever... Look at the bunions. No, the bunions. The bunions. Oh, my God. And I want to talk about this. This is a musical theater actress, ladies and gentlemen, through and through. This woman has worn high heels eight shows a week. Look at that right pinky. What is that nubbin over there? And also, I'm just like...

Sound stages are cold. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm like, all of a sudden she's like, we've just talked about how it's freezing in Miami apparently and they're all wrapped up, but there is barefoot Bunyan Dorothy. God damn, do we ever see her? Do we ever see those flippers again? Ever? Somebody get her to a hospital. It's so bad. Because I look bad.

She needs immediate medical attention. You don't know how hard it was for me not to text you that because I was like, I've got to save this for the recording. I mean, this is perfect. Oh, my. I can smell them from here. You're going to go back and watch it frame by frame. Her rotting old lady feet. Oh, God. Oh.

Oh, my God. Anyway, and then she has the audacity and the flipper feet to offer to make him a sandwich. Yeah, she stops him and says, like, where are you going? It's a great scene. It's a great scene. I was saying this to you earlier. Like, this is an episode of long, thought out scenes. It's not a joke a second. And I do think that changes later in the series. And I was saying, like, this feels like the kind of scene that you would use in an acting class.

Because really, there's a lot of intention. She literally changes her tactic at one moment. You can see it happen. She should have submitted this for the Emmy, not that Doug Elliott one. But my question is, what are we meant to believe Dorothy was doing in the kitchen? Do you think she thought, like she knew David was going to try to sneak out and she's waiting? I think she was in there studying. I actually have a note about that. I forgot about that. I said, wait, Patrick, I said...

I said, middle of the night, David is sneaking out. Dot enters from kitchen, flicking on light, presumably studying for that goddamn French final. She's been studying. You're absolutely right. She's studying. Oh, my God. But she also knew this was coming. She knew it was coming. Because she is kind of the oracle with David, right? Absolutely. She's the David whisperer. She is. You're right. Oh, my God.

So Dorothy says, if you wait a few minutes, I'll make you some sandwiches. And so I said, Dorothy goes into full substitute teacher mode. Remember, like that's what Dorothy does for a living. She talks to kids like this all the time and she asks him where he's going. And he says, I don't know. She says, how are you going to get there? He says, I'll take a bus. And she goes, I see. And when the bus gets you to you don't know where, what will you do then? And he says, get a job.

Like, this scene is really good. Yeah, just really, yeah, as what? Secretary of State? Yes. Excellent, Liz. Now she changes her tactics. Yep. Because she's trying to, like, level with him. And then when it's not... Because he's still going. He's still going. And then she changes her tactic and calls him a chicken. So you're just going to wimp out, huh?

I'm not wimping out. What do you call this? Why should I stay here when I got all this crappy stuff to do? And no one likes me anyway. You know, first of all, buddy boy, life is full of crappy stuff to do. It's everywhere, so you better get used to it. The president has crappy stuff to do. Second of all, your grandmother happens to like you. My mother likes you. She doesn't hit anyone unless she really cares. Take it from me. And I happen to like you.

He says, you're just going to wimp out, huh? Yes. And it gets him to turn around and say, Liz, this is a really well-written episode. It's really good. And we were saying, too, earlier, I bet most people would say this is an annoying episode because it feels messagey. Well, we talked about that, you and I, that

we're not overall necessarily a fan of the on a very special anything. Yes. Right. But as a cursory viewer, maybe that's how you feel. But if you really are doing the work that we're doing, you're like, wow, this is actually really good. And it's really fascinating to talk about it with an actor because it is like, yeah, because I mean, I could see you in 20 years doing this scene with a younger person. You know what I mean? Thanks for saying that. And,

88 years. But like to see real acting, like to see Bea Arthur change a tactic like that, which she can only do if it's good writing and the writing is great. And he says next, you know, like, why should I stay here when I got all this crappy stuff to do and no one likes me anyway? Yes. And she says, you know, first of all, buddy boy. And I have in parentheses, Patrick, I'm going to call you buddy boy from now on. It's just so like every time we have a disagreement, first of all, buddy boy.

Life is full of crappy stuff to do. And then she says, second of all, your grandmother happens to like you. My mother happens to like you. Now, this is where she tries to justify the physical assault that we saw earlier. Yeah. She doesn't hit anyone unless she really cares. Take it from me. A lifetime of getting the shit kicked out of her by her mother. Oh, yeah.

And Dorothy says, and I happen to like you. It's a very sweet moment. I have to beg your indulgence, Patrick, of how I wish these next few lines went and see if you know the difference. Okay. Yeah. Because he says, my life stinks. And she says, I know. Things are tough at home and that really does stink, but not like my feet. Yeah.

But you have a choice. You can tough it out or you can let it beat you. But right now you're here. And this doesn't have to stink like my feet. And if you stay and work at it and everything turns out, you'll have a place to visit when the things at home really get to stink like my feet. I do love the idea that he's like, I would really appreciate it if you get those baked potatoes away from me. Thanks, Dot. Oh, God, those stinky baked potatoes. Oh.

But he says, I can't just like come here whenever. She's like, you can just like come here whenever. Yeah. But now he only wants to do the boy chores. He's like, I don't mind doing the gardening, but vacuuming is for girls. I understand they're just trying to make him be the kind of kid that he is. But she's great. And she says, OK, we can renegotiate if you'll like learn English. Commenting on. Yeah. Then she says, come on, I'll fix you something to eat. I'm like, well, how about that triple decker BLT? He's like, how about you just put some socks on?

Or he stands up and like having not said anything earlier, he goes, you know, I could really go for a fully loaded baked potato. There you go.

So it's the next day. It's probably the, what is the, it's the night before he leaves. Yes. They're having like a tiki party out on the lanai. Blanche proposes a toast to Dorothy who got an A in her French class, proving that you can teach old dogs new tricks. Sophia says, and if anyone should know about tricks. And here's that French moment you liked, Patrick. Yeah. Dorothy says, thank you, ladies and gentlemen.

Or should I say, merci beaucoup, mes amis. Which I didn't think she said very well. It sounded sexy because it was like, no, no, no. Merci beaucoup, mes amis. Mes amis. And Rose says, that's impressive. And then we get a Jane Goodall moment where Sophia says, Jane Goodall once taught an ape to Roomba. That's impressive. And like, how,

we learned in the last episode when they mentioned Mrs. Steinbeck and we learned that like Betty White was actually friends with John Steinbeck and his wife Betty White was good friends with Jane Goodall I think they kind of all were it's interesting that like in the deep dives we did about all of them they all kind of passionately cared about

animal rights. They did. And Jane Goodall actually wrote something lovely after Betty White passed, a tribute. She said, while many people knew her as an iconic actress, I knew her for her love of animals, a love that was genuine and meaningful. She was a patron of L.A. Zoo, where I met her several times, and I like to think she regarded me as a friend. Oh, that's so sweet, Jane. Good on you, Goodall.

That's sweet. I have to say here, too, I noticed that David is drinking this little ginger ale out of a bottle. It looks like a beer. It's a little ginger ale. Yeah, okay, good. And the reason I say this is because my mémé, that's my French for grandmother, my mémé always used to store those ginger ales in a bottle, those mémé bottles. Oh, really? And so it just made me feel nice and warm. Because I also, the first time I saw the Golden Girls was at my mémé's house. Oh, really? Yeah, in real time, when I was his age. I love your warm fuzzies with the Golden Girls. Yeah.

So many good memories. Yeah, really. But it's funny. I have to say, I remember not responding to the show at that age. Like, oh, that's my grandmother's show. Of course. You know what I mean? And it was only like five years later when I was like 19. I was like, this is the best show of all time. You would have been like, that's my grandmother's show and also my gay friend Patrick's show. Like, I was 10 and I was obsessed. You're obsessed. Oh, my God. Yeah. So Dorothy proposes a toast to David, who in the past weeks has proven that he's one damn good kid. Yeah.

And he stands up and says, it's interesting. In the past week, I got hit. I did chores. I learned a lot about handicapped animals. Awesome.

All in all, it hasn't been half bad. But this is when he makes a bombshell. David announces that he would like to move in and live with them full time. And I was like, this show really has a knack for introducing like a bombshell. I'm like, we got three and a half minutes left of this episode. What is going on here? I know. And I have to say from an acting point of view, Patrick, I hate this kind of transition that they make an actor do. Okay, tell me. So he's been there for two weeks. We know as the audience that time has passed.

However, for us as the audience watching the show, it's been 12 seconds. Right. And this poor kid, this actor has to be, and now I'm a new softer, David. You know, we see it again in his goodbye. You know, when he's like, you know, you know. See you later, slugger. Yeah. And he's just like, and all in all, hasn't been half bad. Yeah.

Like he was just a tyrant. Totally. Five seconds ago. Oh my God. Well, excuse me, 12 seconds ago. Well, like on stage that must happen to you all the time. You know what I mean? Yeah, you have to make and justify these lightning fast transitions. Yes. That feel really disingenuous. Oh, that's so interesting. And I just love like when he's like, it's a newer, softer David. Yeah.

Dorothy laughs because she thinks he's kidding, then realizes he's not kidding. And Blanche says she would have to discuss that with his parents. That's right. No mention of her roommates. No. You know what I mean? Where is he going to sleep? That's...

That's not a bedroom for Coco. That's our girl. That's her. That's what she does. I wanted to go back and see what she says. Well, I would certainly have to discuss it with, and I want all like Rose and Sophia and Dorothy to lean in to be like, of course you have to discuss it. And she says, your parents. Yeah. And just see what their faces do. And he's like, oh, listen, oh, mom and dad will say yes. They'll be as happy with the ideas as I am. Well, I'm going to get some ice cream. And Patrick, I'm going to send you a text here because this is,

There is some continuity problems with the food. Oh, no. Yep. And I feel bad for the continuity person that I'm going to out them. So here's the food. I guess they're French fries. And then I couldn't really tell what the other product was. Oh, God. And then they're reversed. Ha ha ha ha ha.

Like, let me ask you this. How long was this shooting day? You know what I mean? Like, they set it down and then, like, how does that get moved? Well, they might have split the shoot either before or after a lunch break or over two days. I don't think this warranted a two-day shoot. Yeah. So at some point there was a break and someone, when they were redressing, they call it redressing the set, when they were redressing the set, they reversed the place. Yeah.

Like when they were probably in between camera angles, camera shots, you know, setups because they do it from different angles. I just love the idea that they weren't thinking like 40 years in the future or some... Some asshole named Jennifer Seuss. Who like is doing a thing that doesn't even exist yet. No, well, I did the movie The Flintstones in Viva Rock Vegas. And there was one scene after lunch where we did several takes and I had to stop. I was mortified. I had my watch on. Oh.

Oh, no. And there was no watches back in the Stone Age, you know? So I had to say something, and I remember the very kind director, but he went over to the continuity person. He's just like, please just make sure this never happens again. Oh, my God. And it wasn't...

It was my fault, not their fault. Who were you in the movie? I was the bride-to-be. I was at the beginning. I was Wilma's cousin. Oh, my God! You can see it's my bridal shower. Ah! So Blanche, like, takes the portable phone and calls the mom in front of the roommates. Yep. And she does an excellent job. Rue...

So I was going to make a note of this because I was asking you in an earlier episode what it's like to do a phone call as an actor. She is one of the best I've seen at conveying that someone else is answering her. The timing was exactly right. Yes. It was really good. And she punctuates the whole thing with that hilarious antenna on the phone. It was just really good. It was really well done. I'm calling you about David. No, he's fine. Matter of fact, he's so happy here, Janet, that I've decided to keep him and raise him myself.

She ends the call by saying, if you don't straighten up and give this boy the love and attention he deserves, I will kick your uppity butt until hell won't have it again. I've never heard that expression before. Well, you did know. I know.

And so that's kind of it. I mean, it's, you know, Dorothy says to her, like, nice bluff. And Blanche says that was no bluff. I meant every word of it. I would love to have the chance to raise David. I might make up for the mess I made for Janet. Did you want to ask your roommates if they wanted to also help co-parent David? Which is what would be happening. I know, exactly. You know? And also, yes, it was nice bluff. And we thought that she did a really good idea. Reverse psychology is what you said. But now this is the first time we're learning that there was a part of her that really wanted him. This was true. Yes. Narcissistic Blanche. I know.

She walks in in full narcissism. Dorothy, you don't mind staying with your mom forever, do you? In a full size bed? How's that going to work for you? Yeah.

So then it's the next scene. It's the last scene. David is leaving. He doesn't want them to drive him to the airport because he's seen how they all drive. Right. And just jab at women drivers on the way out the door. Why not? Thanks, Liz. But I have here eye roll. That's an eye roll for me, ladies and gentlemen, because he's like, I'm going to miss you guys. I'm a new, a new, sweeter, softer, special David. Okay.

I was like, oh, Jesus. Well, because then he goes down the line, right? Like, he gives Blanche the hug. Yeah. And then he goes to Rose and does, like, that handshake that he did at the beginning. And then he gives one to Dorothy. And then he goes over and has this moment with Sophia where she pretends that she's not slapping him this time. She's going to full-on close fist punch him in the face. Mm-hmm. But then goes full karate kid, grabs his nose. Ha!

I have to say here with Dorothy, too, we are back, ladies and gentlemen, to a double papoose top. She could hold two kangaroos in that thing. Just go back and look. Right? She could hold two kangaroos. Remember when I said, yeah, it's just a double there. Yeah, yeah.

We're back. She's back. Remember what she said to Dr. Elliot Clayton? And I usually look much better. Yes. No, no, no. It's unusual when you look much better. Remember that beautiful aqua indigo thing you wore a few days ago? That was better. It's the, no. No. Oh, honey. Oh, no, honey. He's cheating on you. Oh, honey. Oh, honey.

Oh, honey, he's cheating. Oh, my God. Anyway, so he's like, well, bye, Grandma. Oh, wait, this is important that Dorothy's on board. Yeah. Giving permission that Blanche never asked her for. What choice does she have? It's either that or homelessness.

You know, that if things get too tough, you can come live. You can come live with us. Yeah. You know, he goes, Blanche is emotional. Dorothy says she meant it. And, you know, and everyone's saying it's going to be really quiet without him. And Sophia says, I'll say no more listening to Dorothy snore. Dorothy says, Ma, don't snore. And Sophia says, this is the funniest. I scream laughed. Yeah. Sophia says, please, I had to turn you from the window so you wouldn't inhale the dreams. Yeah.

The best part to me is that you scream laugh. I did. And I was like, eh. I'm just thinking about- But you know what did make me scream laugh? What? Is when he hugs Dorothy goodbye. It's extremely subtle, but you can just see that Bea Arthur is making sure she goes downstage for the hug. Yeah.

You will not send me upstage, young David. I always think about the episode with Lisa Jane Persky where she told in the book Golden Girls Forever, which everyone should go and get because it's the tome of this whole show, that Bea Arthur barely spoke to her on the set. The only thing she said to her was, don't hug me around the neck. Well, she's very particular about her hugs and like, Billie Jane, you better not. You better not go downstage. That's all. That's all I'm saying. Such a good episode. So good.

You're so talented. No, you are the talented one. Okay. No, it's really you. Everybody knows it's you. Cheesecakes, when we come back from our little breaky break, Jen's going to give us her deep dive on Herb Edelman. I'm so excited. Hi, it's me, Stan. Get in us, Stan. Oh, get in me, Stan. All right. Two seconds. We'll be right back.

My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big ROAS man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend.

My friend's still laughing at me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com slash results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com slash results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. All right, two-time Tony nominee Jennifer Samard. Thank you. You're doing your deep dive on Stan Spornack.

Take it away, girl. Yeah, so this is a little deep dive on Herb Edelman. Herb Edelman. What a name. It's a great name, isn't it? He's the actor who played Stan Spornak. He was born in Brooklyn, New York. Oh, my. November 5th, 1933. That is so long ago. It feels like ages. You know, I would give anything to go back and see what New York was like in the 1930s. Would you give anything? Maybe not anything. Even my kid.

The husband is negotiable. I would give almost anything. Like, that's the time. If I could get in a time machine and go back to anywhere, Greenwich Village, 1933. It's funny you should say that. Someone asked me that question once, and I always said, I want to go back to 1940 and babysit my three-year-old mother. That sounds amazing. We were like, how do I do that? Oh, my God.

Can you imagine? Oh, I love it. These big brown eyes. Meanwhile, I just want to go like see like the 1930s gays in the village and see how cute they were. What a good idea. You know what I mean? Yeah. Anyway. Anyway, back to Herb. He became known as this towering presence, okay? Because he has a tall drink of water. Yeah. But Herb himself said that he used to be the shortest, fattest kid in his high school. Wow. Yeah. Until he hit a growth spurt in his senior year, which is late. Usually it's around 15 sophomore year. Yeah. But...

I could only imagine him at 15, tall and the Stan Zbornak baldness. I know. Or at that age, at 15, he would have been short and fat with the baldness. Danny DeVito or whatever. But by 18, he was 6'5", 210 pounds. Holy cow. Now, at the end of high school, you know, he was deciding to go to school. His dad wanted him to become a policeman. Wow. He said he wanted to be an actor, and his dad was, he didn't want him to be, quote, a no-good actor. Which I take very personally. Yeah.

Anyway, it would take him years to become an actor because at first, just like the aforementioned Harold Gould, Harold Gould who played Arnie and Miles, but just like this guy, Herb Edelman went to Cornell. Oh, wow. He was a smarty pants. He was an Ivy League boy. Do you know what he studied? I do. He studied veterinary medicine. Holy moly. Can you imagine? Hi, it's me, Stan. I'm here to service your cat. I know. Can you imagine?

That is so funny. I know, but he was a brainiac. Anyway, that got interrupted because he joined the army. That's what a lot of these fellas did. When he came back to the States, though, he had a lot of odd jobs in New York for about seven years. All right. And some of them are he was a cab driver. Yeah. He was a peanut salesman. He was a hotel man, whatever that means. A hotel man. Does that mean you work the front desk? Are you sleeping with people in their rooms? Knock, knock, knock. Who is it? I'm the hotel man.

That's wild. He was an advertising salesman. These are all jobs that Stan Spornack would definitely have. True. You know what I mean? It was very mirroring. Maybe it was foreshadowing. That's a literary term for something introduced that's going to happen in the future. Anyway, he was half of a nightclub team, but they were usually unemployed. Yeah.

That sounds like us. I want to know that the nightclub actors called Zbornak and Zbornak. You know what I mean? Z and Z. They were usually unemployed. But by the time he was 28 years old, this is in 1961, he decides to fully devote himself to becoming an actor. Huh. And he enrolls in that famous acting school, Brooklyn College. But...

He never graduated. And I feel very at one with him because, Patrick, I did the same thing. Oh, really? It's a very common story for actors. I went to the Boston Conservatory of Music. I loved it. I took classes there when I was in high school. I'm sure you did, but I never graduated because I started working and that's what happened with him. He started getting jobs and...

Wow. Off you go. Now, he's very proud that he was a working actor before this moment happened in his life. But this was still a big break. He was driving the aforementioned taxi cab. And one of his riders was none other than director Mike Nichols. And Mike Nichols later cast him in Barefoot in the Park.

No way. On Broadway, yep. And then in the subsequent film. And it's the sweetest, funniest role. Wow. Yeah, it's the role of Harry Pepper, who is the telephone installer. And if you don't know what I'm talking about, go watch the film starring Robert Redford and Jane Fonda. Also, I talk about this in other interviews I've done, but

I fell in love with the actress Barbara Berry from a televised production of Barefoot in the Park that you can still find on YouTube. Wow. And that starred James Cromwell in the role of telephone installer Harry Pepper. But it's just a really funny, funny role. And it really did launch Herb's career. I got to tell you, I once, when I was a bartender, I served Mike Nichols. Did you? He was so nice. And he was with Natalie Portman. Yeah. And they were, I think it's when they were doing The Seagull. I was at the opening night party for The

Oh, my God. Really? And danced right next to Michael. Yeah. It was working at Ruby Foods on the Upper West Side. They came in. They were sitting down. They were going over the script together at the bar. And they were both very nice. They were very nice then. Yeah. Meryl Streep, by the way, was in that production. Yes. She memorized everyone's name in the cast and the crew on the first day of rehearsal. She did. She asked everyone's name in a semicircle and then went back every single person's name. We get it, Meryl. You're not. We get it. You're nice. Have you seen the TikTok where she's like accepting some award and she goes, there are days.

that even I think I'm overrated. She's wrong. She's underrated, if anything. She's perfect. Now, I just want to say as a side note that the play staged by Mike Nichols is...

It really launched the career of a lot of people. This is Barefoot in the Park? This is Barefoot in the Park on Broadway. It ran from 1963 to 1968. It was hugely successful. A play? Wow. And it launched the careers of Robert Redford and Elizabeth Ashley. And then, of course, the movie, like I said. Anyway, Herb went on to a very successful career in both film and television. He appeared in 26 episodes of The Golden Girls, which is the most appearance by any non-regular cast member. Oh, wow. And he received

two Emmy nominations for his work on the show. As Stan? Mm-hmm. And he also appeared in one episode of The Golden Palace. Oh, he did? Mm-hmm. Now, Bea Arthur is said to have been the one to recommend him for the role of Stan Spornick. I heard this. Yeah. I read somewhere that they were saying that, like, they wanted somebody that she would like. Mm-hmm. And, like, in the pilot or whatever episode he's in, like, they didn't know. Oh, we said this

in the other episode that they didn't, they weren't thinking of him as like a returning character, but they wanted somebody as tall as her and somebody that she knew and she recommended him. And she had seen his work and she was a fan. And I'm like, good job, Bea. Like, you nailed it. Yeah, I said, thanks, Dot. Thanks, Bea.

I know they're my notes. Thanks, Dot. Thanks, Steve. And that did work, too, the height thing that you bring up, because they mentioned that, that that's one of the chemistry things they love. They love how tall they both were juxtaposed with how tiny Estelle Getty was. Oh, that's hilarious. It just added to the comedy. Yeah. Now, Stan Lee Spornack is probably most well-known for his

hi, it's me, Stan, catchphrase. And in fact, if you go on YouTube, there's a montage of all the different versions. Oh my God. Because it evolved. You know, like the first episode, you know, he's like, hi, it's Stan. Or, you know, like, hey everyone, it's me. But then it definitely became, hi, it's me, Stan. And it's just whether he's coming through the kitchen or no matter, it's just, it becomes a really funny gag. It's the best.

And Dorothy had her own terms for him. Some of them included dirtbag, barfbag, yellow-bellied sleazeball, and big bald girl. I think of the episode where they had to sleep in the same bed for whatever reason. Like, he had to sleep over at the house. Yeah. And they get into the bedroom, and she gets into the bed, and he looks, and he goes, well, where am I supposed to sleep? And she goes, on the floor like any dog. 38 years of marriage. I know. That's how you talk to me.

Oh, God. Now, there is a bit of a Stanley Spornack controversy. Ooh. Well, you're going to be aware of this. Okay. You know, we're not going to ignore it. No, of course not. Here in the deep dive. But throughout the show, Dorothy mentions how she got pregnant on her first date at a drive-in movie. Yes.

With Stanley when she was in high school. Yeah. Right. And at the time he claimed he was, you know, being sent to fight in Korea the next day. And this wasn't true, but he convinced Dorothy to sleep with him. Uh-huh. Now, in the season five episode, The Accurate Conception, Dorothy mentions how she wasn't aware of what was happening during her date. She was unconscious, which means that Stan raped her.

Wait, what? Right? She said she was asleep in the car? Yeah. And so, like I said, in the episode of The Accurate Conception, when Blanche's daughter Becky is about to get inseminated as sperm bake, Dorothy tries to make Blanche feel better by casually saying, quote, among the four of us, we each conceived our children in a different way. I was totally unconscious. When I came to, there was Stan carving a notch into his dashboard. So to your question, was she asleep? Well, yeah, she was unconscious. Oh, my God.

And it continues. The lines continue. Sophia says, I never bought that unconscious story. And Dorothy says, I swear he must have slipped me something. Apparently, Sophia retorts. And of course, a huge laugh from the audience. Oh my God.

Dorothy clearly states that Stan drugged and raped her while she was unconscious and the studio laughed. That is wild. Right. And so if you think about it, since 2018, NBC's, you know, they pulled the Cosby show from syndication because of him being convicted of drugging and raping. So, you know, it makes you question everything in this reckoning of the Me Too era. Right. Of course. Yeah.

in instances like this, it's really hard to put yourself in the mindset of like what we're laughing at in 1985. Right. You know, because like she's doubling down and saying, no, I was asleep. I'm telling you, I was unconscious. Well, and then it makes you wonder, I go back and watch movies from the 70s and 80s that I used to think were really funny and they're unwatchable. 100%. And it just,

it disturbs me and it should disturb me. Yes. That I ever found that funny. You know what I mean? Of course. And so it's a conundrum for me. And I don't know how the fans feel about it. You know, I don't know how the cheesecakes feel about it, but it's something to talk about anyway. For sure. And I just want to say this. The National Sexual Assault Hotline is 1-800-656-4673. It's anonymous. And to be clear, I want to make sure that you know we're talking about the character Stanley Spornack, not the person or gentleman. Correct.

Well, you told me the other day there was a date rape allegation and I thought it was about him. So I'm glad to hear that. No, it's about Stan. But it's tricky. And they talk about this now in a few episodes. It's not just the one. So do you pull both episodes? You know, maybe. Right. Or do you leave it and just say like, that's what we were. I don't know. Like, it's it's all horrifying to me. I'm glad I'm not the person making the decisions here. Yeah. Oof.

But, you know, he died very young. How old was he? He was only 62. Oh, my God. That's young. What did he die of? Emphysema. Oh. On July 21st, 1996 in Los Angeles.

But you can visit his grave site here in New York. He's buried at the Montefiore Cemetery in Springfield Gardens, Queens. Wow. All right. A little D.D. on her, Bettelman. Thanks for the D.D. You know, and a little, yeah, a little darkness at the Golden Girls. You know what, though? Like, I bet that's not the only time we're going to encounter stuff like that. No. I'm sure there's a bunch of...

We're going to have an AIDS episode. We're going to have a political episode. We're going to have interracial marriage. We're going to have a lot of things to talk about. Yep. And issues that were, quote unquote, issues that should never have been issues. Of course. You know, so it's interesting. Well, I love you. You're the best. I love you more times two plus one. Oh, my God. Oh, Cheesecake. Thanks for coming along on the journey. I will never tire of your briefs.

Ever. Cheesecakes, I want you to go join the Facebook group right now. It's the Golden Girls Deep Dive Podcast Discussion Group. Let us know what you thought about the episode. Shoot us an email if you've got ideas on deep dives or just things about episodes you want to talk about. What's the email address? It is

at goldengirlsdeepdive.com. And follow us on Instagram and TikTok if you want to see the really funny moments from the episode brought to life. Erin, our content producer, takes the moments and like and turns them into pure magic. They're so funny. Go have a laugh. Go have a laugh. It's Golden Girls Deep Dive both on TikTok and on the Instagram. Yay. Thanks, Jen.

Thanks, Cheesecake. We love you, Cheesecake. We'll see you next week. Look, it's already going too fast. It's already going too fast. We're working on episode seven next week. I refuse to accept that. Has anybody ever told you that you look like Chaperone? No. Do you know she's like that new pop star that everyone's going crazy over? H-O-T-T-O.

Oh, Gio. You look just like Chablerone. It's really hitting me. Oh, I'm young and hip. You are. You are young and hip. All right. Well, Cheesecakes, you heard it here. But seriously, we love you. This has been so much fun. And yeah, we're going fast, but we have a lot of time yet to cover. I can't wait. I can't wait. I love the episodes where we're taking our time, where we're really doing, like, we're talking about whatever we want to talk about. We're really getting it out. I personally love a 90-minute episode. Same. These episodes are long, girl. You know, people are stuck in traffic. They need us. Are we doing...

the Lord's work. We are really, somebody actually DM'd us and said you're doing the Lord's work. Did they really? Yeah. Well, you're welcome. Our halos are being polished. Peace be with you. We'll see you next time. Bye. Bye.