Job Hunting (Season 1, Episode 22)
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Cheesecakes, Patrick here. I am so excited to tell you that tickets for my tour are now on sale. So in case you're like, girl, what the hell are you talking about tour? Here's the details. I've put together an evening that I'm bringing all across the country starting in February. It's a storytelling event that turns into a party, Cheesecakes. So for the first part of the evening, I'm going to tell you a story about a disastrously hilarious evening I spent with Golden Girls icon herself, Bea Arthur.

And because I'm extra, we've brought in the incredible Bea Arthur impersonator, Jason B. Schmidt, who'll be appearing via video to play the role of Bea Arthur from Beyond the Grave, giving her take on this

whole ridiculous situation. The story part lasts a little less than an hour and then after that we all go to the venue bar. We've got the whole venue to ourselves for the entire night. It's a cash bar and we'll drink, we'll mix and mingle. I'll get to meet every last one of you and you all will get to meet fellow cheesecakes in your area.

For the first leg of the tour, I'll be coming to Seattle for opening night and then Los Angeles, Denver, Salt Lake City, Indianapolis, New Orleans, and Kansas City. Tickets are on sale right now, Cheesecakes, and you can get them at PatrickTours.com. The venues are super small. Most of them are just about 100 seats, so it's going to be a super fun and intimate evening, and I hope you'll come and see me. Once again, it's PatrickTours.com to get your tickets, and I can't wait to meet you. All right, Cheesecakes, now to the show.

Jennifer Simard. Hi, Patrick Hines. Oh, girl. Who are you? I'm great. I'm so happy to be here with the cheesecakes and you. It's episode 22. Can you believe it? I can believe it because we have been cranking these out and working so hard. I know. I just love being here.

being here with everybody. Me too. Cheesecakes, join the Facebook group if you have not. It's the Golden Girls Deep Dive podcast discussion group. It's where we drop announcements like when we're doing happy hours or hangout sessions. It's where you can make new friends. It's where you can drop your Golden Girls memes. It's a really fun and safe place on the internet to come and just hang out for a while. That's right. And if you have anything you want to write us separately, do so at our email, info at goldengirlsdeepdive.com. Yeah. For those of you who don't know what we... Don't knew? For those of you who didn't knew. Didn't knew. Didn't knew what we do. Yeah.

We do recaps of each episode in order and then we do funny little sprinkled deep dives throughout of stuff that interests us and hopefully you. And at the end, one of us does a deep dive of something from the Golden Girls universe. So you want to know what we're doing today? Yeah. We are doing your deep dive on the movie Stop or My Mom Will Shoot. The movie starring Estelle Getty and Sylvester Stallone. You know I love me my

It's live. I know. And you love Estelle, so we're doing it. I'm so excited about this. I know nothing about this movie. I've never seen it. You've never seen it. No, I read a little bit about it early on when we were doing the Estelle Getty Deep Dive, but I'm excited to hear what you're going to tell us today, girl. All right. All right. What episode are we talking about today? We're doing season one, episode 22. This is Job Hunting. It was written by Kathy Spear and Terry Grossman, directed by Paul Bogart, and it originally aired March 8th, 1986.

So this week in the world, I was very excited to find out this was the week that Pretty in Pink was number one in the country. The movie Pretty in Pink. So it came out the week before, but this week it was the number one movie in the world. And I wanted to do like a little deep dive on it because I love that movie. This is quick. It's what I found to be the most interesting thing about it because it's, you know, everybody knows it's a cult classic movie. It's all about the cast.

Like the cast is really what made the movie. So the movie stars Molly Ringwald, Andrew McCarthy, James Spader, and John Cryer. But the thing that I found so interesting was that almost all of those people were not in the movie. Like almost all of those roles that they played were almost played by other people.

Oh. This is my little deep dive. Are you ready? John Hughes wrote the movie Pretty in Pink for Molly Ringwald, but the studio wanted Jennifer Beals in that role. Oh, sure. From Flashdance. Right. She just had like a major success in Flashdance. Yeah. She's like overnight stardom. Overnight stardom. And the studio really wanted her, but John Hughes really fought for Molly Ringwald. They had just done Six

and candles together. Oh, yeah. And this was like the follow-up. He wrote it for her, so they had to have her. Yeah. The role of Ducky, famously played by John Cryer, was written for Anthony Michael Hall. Well, yeah, I can see that. They worked together constantly. They were part of that rat pack together, right? Exactly, yep. And John Hughes wrote that role for Anthony Michael Hall, but he turned it down. And when he turned it down, Molly Ringwald really wanted Robert Downey Jr. Ah. Because he was like weird and quirky

and cute, but the studio really wanted to go with John Cryer, and they went in that direction. So, for the role of Blaine, played by Andrew McCarthy, the studio really wanted Charlie Sheen for that role. But Molly Ringwald said that she really pulled for Andrew McCarthy. It's like, John Hughes pulls for her, she pulls for Andrew McCarthy. It's wild. She pulls for Andrew McCarthy because she felt that they had, like, an almost

perfect on-screen chemistry. Sure. She said that he had an appeal to women that guys didn't really understand. She said women found him charming and handsome, whereas men just like found him annoying. And she said almost every woman she knew thought he was hot. But that men were like positioned to make these decisions, like didn't understand that women felt that way about Andrew McCarthy. Yeah, I'm one of the people that didn't find him hot, but I can see where people would. Yeah. I think

the thing that he overlapped with both men and women and maybe not in the same opinion. Yeah. Was that he just seemed like an everyman. It's funny too, like an interesting tidbit is that when they, they had to reshoot the ending because it initially ended with her ending up with Ducky. Yeah. But John Cryer played the character pretty queer. And so when they did it for test audiences, like it did not work. People did not like it. So they had to rewrite it and reshoot it. So she ended up with the Andrew McCarthy character. But he was doing a

play in New York at that point and it shaved his head so they had to like famously put him in a wig and they say like the wig is really bad and you can tell that it's not like his real hair but anyway finally James Spader the role of Steph so he's like the bad guy asshole character in the movie he almost didn't get the

part because his audition was so good that the director thought he was an asshole oh like he did such a good job playing an asshole that they were like he's gonna be miserable to work with i get it i get it and so they brought him in for another like a callback and they chatted with him and they're like oh my god he's like a really nice guy he's just like a really good god they did that i know right imagine being so good at your job yeah you lose it because they think you're that person wild so let's get to the episode proper is that okay yeah

The first thing I noticed in this episode, I have to say, was the makeup and the hair. Yes. Blanche is serving us a warm palette and doesn't look like we've seen her recently. Yes. Sophia's wig. I was like, wait a minute. This is episode 22. We're well into the first season. We both recognize that. I'm sure the cheesecakes did too. And so I'm like, they had to have filmed this earlier, but released it later. Right. And so I need some answers. So I found them. Oh, amazing. So this was the

second episode they ever filmed. It was the first one after the pilot. Oh my God. Okay. Now you can tell for all the aforementioned reasons. And also you can tell because of all the scenes that we see in the opening credits. Yes. Right. They're all from this episode. There are so many from this episode. And once you see the episode, you'll understand. But

There is speculation that maybe the episode was too risque, you know, and maybe they delayed it to know if they had a hit on their hands because of the sex talk later. Yeah. Right. But here is the reason I found out. This is alleged, right, from what I found. I found this on Reddit, but it's from the book Betty White on TV from Video Vanguard to Golden Girl. And this is what

It said, Oh.

Oh! Oh my God! What a nightmare for the actors! Oh!

So, Pissarro said the director ultimately lowered morale for the cast and crew. Frankly, during the Bogart episodes, everybody was in a little panic. When we had done the pilot, you could feel the energy all around the set. People knew that they had a hit. Then, all of a sudden, it was rocky. Witt and Thomas so disliked Bogart that they delayed the episode he directed, Job Hunting, this one, from airing after the pilot as originally planned. Instead, the show ran on March 8th, 1986, as we said, by which time he had departed.

This is what's strange to me, though. His work on Guest Who's Coming to the Wedding did air as the second episode. Yes. So I don't really see how that correlates to a punishment of him. That's weird. Isn't that weird? This is why I really want to say this is alleged in this source. Yeah. Bogart's other two shows were Transplant that we saw airing October 5th, 1985. Oh, the one where the sister comes and wants a kidney. And Break-In. Oh, yeah. You shot my mom. All right.

Are you feeling lucky, punk? And those were his four episodes just before his dismissal. Interesting. Yeah. And here's the thing, too. When Golden Girls won the Emmy for Outstanding Comedy Series, Bogart claimed a statuette because his early credit as supervising producer was on the nomination. And get this. Last thing I'll say. He never directed another sitcom before retiring in 1995. Wow. Isn't that crazy? Yeah.

This episode looks so different. Like, I noticed in Blanche's hair. Yeah. Like, her hair. Her hair, everything. The lighting looks really different. I know. I said, it looks like an episode of Hill Street Blues. Yes. It's very dark. It looks like it's, like, in HD and the close-ups. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just so different. That's wild. Yeah. As I said to start, we're in the kitchen. Blanche is making a crudité platter. She's singing. Yes. She's got, like, a

beautiful singing voice and it goes on for like a minute like her like the song she sounds really good little lady love you was mighty lucky baby ball kentucky close your eyes and sleep pepperoni

I'm starving and we're out of pepperoni. I'm sorry, Sophia, honey. Would you like some celery stuffed with cottage cheese? I can't eat cottage cheese. It repeats on me. And Sophia needs pepperoni. It's very strange. Blanche is cutting up veggies and Sophia is starving.

And like Blanche is offering her like, do you want a celery stock stuffed with cottage cheese? Nothing in the world sounds more disgusting to me than that. Oh, really? Yeah. Not even cheesecake? So like cream, yeah, right? Cream cheese and celery is a thing that I like grew up on. But like cottage cheese, like it's like gooey and doesn't taste like anything. So door of the answers. Now I have a theory here, especially knowing that this is episode two. Door of the answers. Hello, hello. Hi Blanche. How are you, sweet mother? We're out of pepperoni. Did you call Dan Rather?

I'm starving. I defrosted some chicken. We'll eat in half an hour. I can't eat chicken. It repeats on me. Look, Ma, you don't have to make excuses. If you don't want chicken, just say, I don't want chicken. I don't want chicken. Good. It repeats on me. Hello, hello. There's another part where she enters later in the episode. Hello, hello, hello. Uh-huh. I think she was trying to give herself a catchphrase because we've heard her do that before. I wonder. In another episode, I don't remember which one it is. Dory, the answer is from hello, hello, hello.

And it feels very much like she's trying to... Hiya, Charlie. Hello, hello, hello, Charlie. Hiya, Charlie. It feels very much like she's trying to give herself a catchphrase. That's just my guess. Maybe she was. I don't know. And she's acting very strange. She's very happy. She's very happy to see her mother. She walks over to her and squeezes her mother on the head. How are you, sweet mother?

That's how she says it. Right. And, you know, Sophia's still on and on about the pepperoni. And Dorothy tells her they're going to eat in half an hour. And Sophia keeps saying she can't have any of this food because it, quote, repeats on her. We all know what that means. No, I did not. You didn't? No. So it means you eat something, but then you keep tasting it? No, it's going to, like, give you gas. You're either going to, like, you're either going to burp or you're going to fart. Ew. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what that means? I think so. Look it up. Let's just move on from it. Oh, my God. So.

So, you know, she's already made the chicken. She offers it to Blanche. Blanche is saying, no, no, no, no, I'm having a raw veggie platter. You probably haven't noticed it, but I put on three pounds on each side. I used to have a waist just like Scarlett O'Hara. Well, you know that girl had an 18-inch waistline. Blanche, that girl and her waistline were fiction. On each side. On each side.

Yep. She says that she used to have a waist just like Scarlett O'Hara. And I'd have to tell you, I read this, Patrick. I don't know if you know. Yeah. And it makes sense, right? But Ru McClanahan once said that she based Blanche on Scarlett O'Hara and Blanche Dubois. Oh, interesting. Yes, which makes sense.

And I noticed on my second watching, she's kind of dressed like Scarlett O'Hara. Yeah, yeah. Like the dress is like old South dress. It's white. It's kind of puffy. It's kind of like... She's really doing her best to look like Scarlett O'Hara. As well as sound like and act like, right? Yeah. Oh, the other thing I noticed here too, because it's episode two. Yeah. Her...

Southern accent is not fully formed. It comes and goes in this episode. Well, we've mentioned that early on when we covered it, that it really took a few just to kind of... Yeah, because by the fourth episode they shot, which is the second episode they aired, it was fully formed, right? Correct, correct. So, like, you feel like after the pilot, she's, like, nailed it. But no, this is the second episode they filmed, and it still isn't quite there yet. Exactly. So interesting. Did you hear how I said exactly? Exactly.

We're recording two episodes in a row. This is episode two of two. I mean, this water is just getting to me. So Rose enters. She's very upset. She's saying it's terrible. It's terrible. Dorothy, once again, it's episode two. B is a little over the top. Rose, honey, sit down, sweetheart. Tell us all about it. Mark, would you get Rose some water? What is she going to do with water? Is water the thing that made you feel better when you were upset?

Have you ever heard anyone say, "Thank God the water's here"?

Do you want some water? And Sophia's like, what is she going to do with the water? Yeah. Like, it's a good point. Like, when has water ever really made someone feel better? And why can't you get it for yourself, Dorothy? Why are you asking your 80-year-old mother to do it? Exactly. Sophia's really annoyed about the request for the water, and she's leaving. Like, this is the thing that Sophia does. She will, like, leave the room sometimes and just, like, let the three other three talk on their own. Right, right. She gives Rose the nastiest look on the way out. She literally just looks at her like this nasty.

nasty. Look, they get this really big reaction from the audience. It's very funny. Very funny. Yeah. Rose goes on to tell them not to worry about her. But basically the issue here we get to is that the grief counseling center is closing. And now immediately, like our understanding that Rose is worried about the people who go to the grief counseling center. That's her main concern. Everybody else, especially Dorothy, who is me, straight up is like in a

panic for Rose's finances. That's right. And that would be me. Like Dorothy is saying, you know, you're me. You go a couple of weeks without a paycheck. Like you're in a really bad spot. No, I look, I'm going through a divorce. This is not the future I had planned, but Rose, Rose is looking for a job. Right. But that's like, I've been so grateful lately that I have

such abundance in my career. How many people do go through what I'm going through and they don't have that, right? This was why I wanted to work for myself and build my own thing because I was always really worried that, like I was in the service industry for forever. I was a bartender and a waiter and a concierge. And I was like, you do eventually age out of that

I think it becomes either too hard on your body or you can't get rehired because people think you're too old. Yeah, we'll get there. We'll get there. And we talk about that a lot. I have lots of feelings about... That was always my biggest fear was like getting to an age where I like the ageism would not let me get a job. Not only the ageism not getting you a job, but when we find out later that Rose...

becomes a waitress. Yes. There's nothing wrong with being a waitress. 100%. However, I know my limitations and one of my biggest fears, this was prior to my divorce, like I used to just cry sometimes when I would see people who are, in my opinion, from what I saw, they far exceed the age where we're allowed to retire.

Yes. Working in a service industry job. Yes. And I can't even tell you how I worry. I know. For these individuals. I know. Do you know what I mean? Me too. Absolutely. I don't know if it's by choice. Yeah. But if it's not, it literally makes me cry. Yeah. And I have to, you know, take a breath, you know? That's why Dorothy is like making all the good points here. She's saying like... Rose, you and I are in the same boat. If we miss a couple of paychecks, we are in big trouble. Thank God I had the foresight to marry money. Tramp. Tramp.

Dorothy, my main concern is making sure those miserable people find other sources of help. Then I'll get a job. I'm dependable, friendly, loyal, eager.

That's great. If she learns to catch a frisbee in her teeth, she can get work as a golden retriever. Girl, you need to be panicking, honestly, you know? Yeah, yeah. You know, we will come to understand that Rose is kind of like in denial a bit, but like it's just not enough to be like a good worker to be to

Like, when you literally have to apply for a job and other people are in charge of whether or not you get that job, that is scary for me. Yeah, and the ageism of it all. And just to go back a little bit, a couple of lines that Blanche was talking about. She makes the joke, thank God I had the foresight to marry money. And I think to myself, because we've questioned how well off they are, right? So we learned that she is relatively well off. And it makes me wonder why she got roommates. Was it for the company? It's a very serious topic.

to have with you. Yeah. And again, I just want to say... Well, you and I are so... One of the reasons why we're such good friends is because we're so similar in our work ethic. Yeah. You know, that working is very important to us. Well, we also know truly what it means to not have a safety net. Mm-hmm. You know? 100%. And I think I've had a larger safety net than most people. Yeah. And my parents were always there to help. Let me, you know, paint them in the most generous light. Yeah. Mine were not. Okay. I had nothing. Yeah. Not because my mom didn't want to. We just... We didn't have any money. Well, and my dad...

it's not like they were wealthy. He was very, I'm not saying this is a comment on your mother. I think he probably had a bit more

more means than your mother, by the way. But also he was just very responsible with his money. So he would always have enough to provide what he could. But those resources had a limit. And of course, I wasn't going to tap into them like a mad woman. But I just think going into retirement, I'll say this, as great as my career is going, as a career in the arts, you also never know. Well, of course. So you just, I just look at these women and I never thought I'd be their age-ish thinking about the things that Dorothy's thinking about. Of course. I just never thought that that would be where I am. Anyway. Absolutely. All right.

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Hey, Cheesecakes. I wanted to take a minute to tell you about one of my favorite podcasts. It's a true crime podcast hosted by my good friend, Josh Hallmark. It's called True Crime Bullshit. And it's a serialized podcast investigating methodical serial killer Israel Keyes.

True crime bullshit is now in its sixth season and Josh's 10-year investigation is paying off in spades. This is huge cheesecakes. Josh and his team have helped the FBI identify the first Israel Keyes kill kit found since Keyes' 2012 suicide.

And it's the only one ever identified without Keyes' help. And that kill kit literally opened up the FBI's vault, where they have over 70 maps found on Keyes' computer, maps they now believe lead to other kill kits and possible trophies and remains. Josh and his team have also found new evidence

evidence in the case, linking keys to multiple new victims. If you like deep dive investigative podcasts that are ethical and victim-centered, True Crime Bullshit is the podcast for you. Josh and his team are doing some wild stuff to get to the bottom of the keys case. They're data mining. They're searching lakes with side sonar scanning. They're working with some of the top minds in forensics, criminal psychology, genealogy, and now even the FBI. I have been listening to True Crime Bullshit from the beginning, and I'm

I can tell you it is an

edge of your seat listen, and I cannot recommend it highly enough. So please introduce yourself or reintroduce yourself to True Crime Bullshit now wherever you get your podcasts. Or go to truecrimebullshit.com to subscribe and learn more about Josh's investigation into Israel Keyes. And I'll just say, if you don't know why this show is called True Crime Bullshit, you're gonna find out in episode one. I love it, and I hope you check it out. So next scene, Dorothy is walking out to the lanai. I said, I have the note, she's looking lovely in peach. I have the

Holy shit. I have Dot enters Lanai dressed like Blanche in a lovely peach lounging pant and top. Are we on the same wavelength? 22 episodes in and we have the same brain. And laggy?

I know. She looks really cute. Yeah. And she's drinking a glass of orange juice, which I have to believe is a screwdriver. Like, I just need to know. Let's pray that it is. And she does a really great, subtle double take to a stranger. This is such a good scene. I love a scene where it's like something doesn't make any sense. Yeah. You know, because there's a man sitting on

on the lanai, like reading a Newsweek magazine. Yeah. Once again, I maintain it is very weird to me to see a man in their space. Yeah. It's like such a female dominated space. It's always weird when there's a man there. And I love that her response is not to panic. Yes. I have the same note. But there's just so many funny face acting moments, pauses. Yes. And just her calm sort of the absurdity of it all. Right. Because he doesn't feel the need to acknowledge her. So she just looks at him and goes, Hello. Hello.

I'm Dorothy Milton pleased to meet you Milton likewise I live here oh you don't I live over on Dorado ah it's about a 20 minute walk but I usually take the bus are you waiting for one now

This whole exchange is so funny because him being there makes no sense to her. No. And why would it? Right. Basically, get you. She's like, I live here. Exactly. Exactly. And he says, no, I'm learning to get in touch with my emotions. And she goes, tell me, will it take long? You know, you're reading my news week.

Right. Because what we're about to learn is that like Rose is having people from the grief center that she's helping come to her home. That's right. She clearly has not made the roommates aware that this is what she's doing, but this is what's happening. This is what's happening. It's like we now know why Miltie is here. Yes. Yes.

Exactly. So Rose enters. His name is Milton. Dorothy thinks that this is a date for Rose. And she's like, dump him. He's a loser. Yeah. And Rose is like, no, no, no. He's from the center. His partner ran off with his wife and all the money from the business. And Dorothy says, oh, Milton, I'm sorry. Keep the news weak. Very funny.

And then she's telling him, in the meantime, you know, before you get to this new private counseling service, don't hesitate to call me, Rose, anytime, day or night. Now, Dorothy takes to the camera and over the mouth mouths the words day or night.

Like in the biggest way possible. Yes, yes, yes. And they're like all exiting back into the house and Rose is walking Milton to the door. Rose turns and closes the door on him. We have a funny sort of reversal here where she's being so nurturing when she guides him out of the door but then she shuts the door and she says he's such a royal pain in the butt. And it's

funny because you notice that because we've all seen all of these episodes 8,000 times. The moment she turns around after he leaves, you instantly recognize that as her moment from the opening credits. And it's kind of wild to see the moment that we got that moment from. It is. And it reminds me of one of my favorite moments in episodes later where they interview Sophia to be the husband's wife when his wife is about to die. And they say, will you consider it then? And Dorothy's like, of course we will. How could we not? I'm like,

What a pair of loons!

They're very good at this kind of thing on this show. It's so good. But like you said, Rose said it's all part of the job. And Dorothy reminds her, girl, you don't have a job. Right. And she's like, I haven't forgotten, Dorothy. And she says, I've just been too busy to start looking. And Dorothy is like levitating off the ground. She cannot believe. She goes full vampire. She cannot believe that Rose hasn't even started looking yet. Yep. I haven't forgotten, Dorothy. I've just been too busy to start looking. You haven't even started looking?

Don't worry, will you? I will get a job. There's always a job for people who aren't afraid of hard work. That's what my father used to say. Yeah, he was talking about milking cows in Minnesota. Dorothy is doubly worried. She's worried that Rose doesn't have a job and she's worried that Rose isn't worried about it. Right. And you wonder what she's thinking. Like, am I going to have to float her? Am I going to have to actually kick her out of this house? I know. Does she have that power, though?

Blanche would. No, but like they would have to like they would have to agree to do it together. You know what I mean? They'd all have to chip in to cover her. Not to take it all too seriously, but you like we know that Dorothy is paying her mother's share of the rent as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like Dorothy really has a vested interest in Rose being able to pay her bills. So Sophia enters. Right. And I have she's wearing a strangely beautiful dress.

Yeah. It's like this purple and pink dress. It's like not an old lady outfit like we usually see her in. It was a little odd to see her so well-dressed. Right. And I have a whole thing about these messages, right? Now, is there an answering machine at the house or are they calling? Because Sophia is the one who at some point has transcribed the messages. Yes. And she's handing them out. And Rose has...

three patients and she was ripping those up. And yes, this is the one that gave me a question. Apparently, this guy, Barry Glick, is coming to town, right? Yes. And she's giddy like a teenager, just flouncing around. I don't believe it. Barry Glick is in town. Oh, I haven't seen him since high school. Barry Glick, mom. Oh, look, look. Barry Glick.

Oh, boy, did I have the hots for him. He says he wants to get together next week. You gonna see him? See him. If he's within 50 pounds of where he used to be, I'm gonna marry him. Again, it's early Dorothy where she's playing everything to the back row. Because she's like, really, she cannot believe that this guy that she had a big crush on in high school is coming to town and wants to see her. That's right. That's right. What we're learning here is that Rose has given all...

All of them, the home phone number? Correct. Like, I know this is before cell phones, but like you've given out the number to like the house where all of these people live? Have you learned that boundary? Like there are just certain people. Yes. Like I'll just speak as someone in the public eye a little bit at the level that I am. Yeah. I'm not super famous or anything, but even on that level...

I have, like, realized, oh, I need more boundaries. You know what I mean? Because you never know. So next scene, it's the middle of the night. Now, Dorothy is pounding. The whole house would wake up at this point. She's pounding on Rose's bedroom door. I have a note here. I mean fucking pounding. Ha ha!

Like, she's going to break her hand. And so, like, you know, Dorothy's, you know, mug to the camera night or day, day or night, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, we now know that look and why she was, you know, foreshadowing the hell to come because here it is. Yes, exactly. Rose. Rose. Rose, will you wake up? You have a call. Is it time to milk the cows?

No, kitten. You have a phone call. What did you say, Dorothy? You have a phone call. It's your friend Milton. I can't believe he's calling at this hour. Well, you told him to call day or night. I didn't mean it. It's an expression. Like laugh when the world laughs with you. Well, the whole world doesn't really laugh.

Rose, will you wake up? You have a phone call. Rose is in the middle of a dream. She says, is it time to milk the cows, daddy? Like, does she just dream of her childhood every single night? So Dorothy responds, no, kitten, you have a phone call. And as she's saying that, Rose is pulling out.

Yeah. Out of her ears. This made me angry. Oh, yeah. It made me angry that Rose is telling these people they can call here day or night. Day or night. But she has earplugs in. Earplugs. She's like, why is that phone ringing all the time? I'm going to put my earplugs in. And Dorothy says, and I actually texted you, Patrick, this morning. She starts hand rage acting. You have a phone call. It's your friend Milton. Yes. The way she says goodnight. Goodnight, Rose. Exactly. And now I love this moment because we're like, oh, this is the opening credits.

opening credits. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Dorothy storms out of the room and she runs into Blanche and they both scream at the same time. Blanche is wearing that incredible pink nightgown looking sexy all the time. And we have a classic line. I hate phone calls in the middle of the night. Now I'll never get back to sleep. I was jumpy as a virgin at a prison rodeo. Boy, that's

Pretty jumpy. I'm as jumpy as a virgin at a prison rodeo.

But it's like the way that I just love the choice that Rue McClanahan makes to walk with her shoulders. Oh, shoulders. Shoulders first. It's like sexy angry, like angry but make it sexy. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? Strut, strut, strut. Yeah. And it's obviously from the opening credits as well. And it's a beautiful moment. I love it. She looks great. Classic. Now, Dorothy and Blanche walk into the living room. And, you know, this is where Dorothy is saying that, like, she hates phone calls in the middle of the night. It's scary. This is one of those times she really misses having a man around. They're good at answering the phone. And I just.

made a note that these types of lines from Dorothy never work for me. Okay. Because you know that Stan was not a protector. I just can see the scene in my mind of like they hear a sound downstairs and Stan's like, you go, Dorothy. You go. Oh, he knew he'd push her in front of him. Absolutely. To your point. Totally. Stan would push Dorothy in front of a moving bus if it got him across the street faster. I just pause.

just popped into my head. I visited Makada Island years ago where they filmed Somewhere in Time, like the Grand Hotel. Oh, yeah. But what was the old theater in the movie was a haunted house now. Oh. And my, this is, you know, years ago, but my best friend Rob, when we ran around this haunted house and it was

pitch black that motherfucker my best friend took me and put me in front of him like a human shield to get around 100% do that to my own daughter if I got stuck in a haunted house with my kid just Daisy I would hold her in front of my face

We got you. We got you. Thank you, girl. Oh, my God. So now all of a sudden, Blanche and Dorothy are chatting. And all of a sudden, we hear Sophia. Like an assassin. In the darkened part of the living room that we never have been to before and we will never go to again. That is the cleanest part of the house. I know. That floor. You could eat off that floor. She's just sitting there. And when they're really good, you don't even hear the phone.

Ma, Ma, why are you sitting here in the dark? Why not? I've seen the living room before. Look, look, I've got to get some rest. Tomorrow I am seeing Barry Glick for the first time in 35 years. If I don't get at least six hours sleep, I look like Buddy Epson.

Now that you mention it. Shut up, Black. Hey, Patrick. Yeah. I've got a very quick thing about Buddy Epson. Oh, great. Okay, so he was born in 1908, died in 2003. Yeah. Six foot three inches tall, this one. Holy shit. Best known as Judd on the Beverly Hillbillies and later as Barnaby Jones. Yes. All right. But this is

the thing I knew as a kid because it was something I did this show when I was nine years old. Okay. And for those cheesecakes who don't know, it's such a fun fact to have to put it in here. Oh, my God. He was originally signed to play the Scarecrow in The Wizard of Oz. Oh, my God. But when Ray Bolger kind of pushed him out of the part, he then was recast as the Tin Woodsman. Yes. And he was in rehearsal for a few weeks. And my God, Cheesecakes, he was forced to quit the

because the aluminum-based makeup that they used on the Tin Man poisoned him. No! I don't know how Jack Haley got through it. Oh, my God. Because he ended up playing the Tin Woodsman, but it was supposed to be our friend Buddy Epson mentioned here. It was supposed to be in The Wizard of Oz? Yeah, he was originally supposed to be the Scarecrow, got fucked over for that, got to be the Tin Woodsman, and then was in rehearsal for a couple weeks, and then he had to bow out because the paint...

Poison town. I weirdly know this fact, too. Margaret Hamilton, I think is her name, she got burned because her makeup, the green makeup, had copper in it. Oh, fuck. And when they did that scene where she arrives and she's in the fire, she got burns on her skin from the makeup heating. Damn, 1939. I know. Clean up your side of the sidewalk. I know.

1939. 1939, get your ass together. Get your shit together, 1939. So back to the episode, Blanche is saying, she's like, oh, no one can sleep. Like, when I get up in the middle of the night, I have to eat. So Rose comes back in, and Dorothy takes this opportunity to, like, really tell it to Rose how it is. Yeah. And we all kind of need a friend like this. But now that we've had the conversation about Dorothy's motivation, I think she wants Rose to get a job because Rose needs a job. But she's also like, I don't have any more money. I can't pay any more money for rent. So, like, she's a vested interest in this.

That's right.

Honey, we know it's not easy, but you've got to get out there and try. She's really telling Rose where it's at. I have to say, going back a little, that Rose softens this pretty harsh statement. But those wimps need me. Because pathetic wimps. Again, I texted Patrick this morning. I was like, Jesus Christ. I know. I know.

be nice to these people, would you please? BetterHelp is one of our sponsors. I've been in therapy for 10 years. I have been on and off in therapy since I was 15 years old. Best thing I ever did in my life. Me too. I would not be alive without it. Yeah. And I was like, yeah, she's not very emotionally intelligent, this one, for such an intelligent woman. Oh, I was going to say, I feel like Dorothy would benefit from some therapy. You know,

Some anger management, perhaps. Exactly, exactly. You can look it up on BetterHelp. They have people for that. So Blanche is saying, you know, face it, Rose, you're not exactly married. We read in Honey. We know it's not easy, but you got to get out there and try. And this is where Rose breaks down and tells the truth. I have tried. I just haven't told you. I've had dozens of job interviews since the center closed. No one wants me. I can't afford not to work. I need something to do with my life.

I never think of myself as old, but everyone else does. Maybe I am old. Old and useless.

And terrified. We said it earlier, but all of those feelings just came over me, you know? And, like, the other thing, too, is that, remember, like, it was just a couple episodes ago that, like, her whole family thought she was set for life. That Charlie worked so hard and left her all this money. That's what I'm saying. The best laid plans. Yeah. You know? And, like, you know, Rose is all of us. She's going to be working until the day she dies. So, a few moments later, we're in the bedroom. Rose is laying on the bed. Now, I...

love this Blanche and Dorothy come in and they get in the bed with her which I was just like I had this moment on the second watching of it where I was like this is why we love this show who doesn't want the best friends I know I had so many slumber parties as a little girl yeah to see these middle aged women yes acting like a

Tight girl group. Yeah. And, you know, it's going to get even better. But like Dorothy and Blanche have been very soft with Rose. Right. But this is where Dorothy is like not going to let Rose sit around and feel sorry for herself. She's not giving Rose an inch here. Oh, right, Rose. So your life isn't the same as it used to be. The rules have changed, but it's happened before, hasn't it? I mean, what did you do after Charlie died? Buried him. Oh.

I mean, what did you do the next day when you had to start putting your life together? I couldn't do it. I'd been a housewife for 32 years. I totally...

Rose is trying to tell them that she did not survive when Charlie died. Right. But Dorothy is like, but you did. Yeah. Because you're here. Yeah. You're stronger than you think is the message, right? Because Rose is saying, you know, I was a housewife for 32 years. I relied on him for everything. But Dorothy's like...

But you're here. Right. And Rose is still on it. She's like, it's not exactly the same position because I'm five years older and nobody wants me around. Yeah. And Blanche is like, honey, we want you around. We just can't afford to pay you. Right. But Blanche, you married for money, girl. Exactly. And I have here...

This is one of the greatest jokes of the series. It's like, it's just perfection. It's a series of threes that is just perfect. Yes. And she says, Rose, Rose, look at me. Rose, listen, you are feeling sorry for yourself. Sure, you're five years older. So am I. So is Blanche. The camera pulls into Blanche's face. Oh, the reactions. I mean, Blanche just looks at her like a skew, like she can't believe she's at it. All right. You have a few more wrinkles. So do I. So is Blanche.

Blanche has the same reaction. She's not going to say anything. All right, you're a little thick around the middle. So is Blanche. That's perfection. I just love the perfect joke telling, though, of like, she's included in the first two, but not the thickest around the middle. I mean, it's just, it's

It's just so funny. It's so good. But this is, again, where she says, like, we're not going to let you give up. We're going to help you. That's right. We're going to help you figure out what you're doing wrong in these interviews and we're going to fix it and we're going to try to get you some more appointments. And that's what friends are for and that's why we all love this in Feel of Heart because we all know, I don't care who you are, I don't care if you're

coupled. Everyone knows what it feels like to feel alone. You can be in a relationship and feel alone. You know what I mean? And so to have people see you and be willing to be with you when the chips are down, there's nothing better. And so Dorothy was like, give me your resume. And this is so great. She's going to help her, the teacher, in the way she knows. She's got

Dorothy written all over it. Yes. Right. One hundred percent. And she just grabs it and starts marking it up to make corrections. Because the resume reads home ec major at Rockport Community College, six months at St. Paul's Business School, 32 years of marriage, laid off my job at the Grief Counseling Center. Then we get the hobbies. Dorothy does not approve. No. The hobbies are cheese making. Probably cork cheese for those cheese balls.

You're absolutely right. Stamp collecting and Viking history, to which I said, those are great hobbies. Right. And I think would look great on a resume. Like, what a great conversation piece for an interview. Right. But she says no. Rose, this stinks. Like the quark cheese. That's right. And, you know, and she's like, it's the truth. And Blanche is like, listen, sometimes you have to stretch the truth, which I just thought of this. Oh, my God. So the first time I auditioned for a professional company, I was 16 years old and I was trying to stretch my resume because I really it was my first.

time, you know, like really since I was a kid, you know, like just as an almost grown up. Right. So my mother is helping me with my resume and she's like, she's doing this for me. She's like, OK, guest vocalist at La Vie et Q restaurant in Paris, France.

Let me explain. My dad, as a French teacher, used to plan trips to Europe. Yeah. And so we went on one of his trips. And one night we were all at a restaurant and people were just randomly getting up to sing. And I randomly got up to sing at seven years old. But my mom, guest singer at La Vie et Q restaurant, Paris, France. Oh, that's perfect. Oh, my God. Thanks, Yvette.

And guess who got the job? Me. Two Tony Award nominations later, starring in a Broadway show this year. Please, your mom did it. So Dorothy works her magic. Graduated top of your class. Intensive postgraduate study. 32 years with the same employer until you moved to Miami. Currently seeking work in the...

Private sector. Voila. This is the resume of a potential hospital administrator. The way she says private sector. I know, the er. I can't believe you said that. I have the OR as a green. Private sector. So Rose is thrilled. She's like, I don't know if I can pull it off, but I am definitely willing to try. And like, great. Now we can all get some sleep.

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Plus, enjoy free delivery on your first three orders. Service fees and terms apply. And we go into another great section, right? We have the food section. Here we go. I have here we go. Anyway, they're all like, oh, we can't sleep now. So they go into the kitchen, right? Rose is going to make them warm milk. I have a note here that that sounds disgusting, but it's actually really good. I love warm milk. I used to work at a coffee shop where I would make steamers, I called them, which was like warm milk with honey. And it was the most delicious thing I've ever had. No one can bring a party down better than Samard. But I got into warm milk.

when I had anorexia, when I was recovering. I love that. I love that my anorexia made you laugh. But when I was recovering, it was something that I could justify for nutrition. And like, you know, I would let myself have warm milk. Don't go crazy. But I was like, this is good. Warm milk really is good. I wasn't laughing at the anorexia. I was laughing at the follow through of the joke about nobody can bring it down like smart. So let's talk about my anorexia smart. Yeah.

All right. So this is great. So now begins the food parade. Yes. And so like, they can't just have plain milk. Rose is now pulling cookies out of the fridge. And Blanche is like, well, if we're having cookies, we're having cheesecake. Hell, if I'm going to have cookies, I'm going to have cheesecake. Is there

Is there cheesecake? Chocolate cheesecake. You bought chocolate cheesecake? For an emergency. What kind of emergency? Nuclear war? Depression. Chocolate cheesecake. I almost brought us chocolate cheesecake, but I know you don't really like cheesecake. I don't really, but is this the first mention of cheesecake in the series? Yeah, and this is what's amazing. We've talked about this

before how long it seemed to get the cheesecake. But really, it should have been in episode two. Somebody, you're right. You're right. This would have been episode two. Come on. I mean, right off. Just OG. Because it gets, this is like, comes out as episode 22. Right. So now they're like, everyone's pulling out food. Dorothy makes the nonsensical statement that if they're going to have dessert, they have to start with like real food first. Can we have justice for having just dessert? Oh no, she just wants to chow down. Right, right, right.

That's how I took it. Rose finds, like, the cookies and cream ice cream. Oh, my God. But to Dorothy's point, they're taking out lemon chicken, smoked ham. She slams that smoked ham down on the table solid. It's not sliced at all. Somebody's got the smoked oysters. Did somebody make smoked oysters? I know, because Blanche is like, let's have app.

And she's just jars, jars everywhere. It's all about justifying. She's like, all this food would have spoiled anyway. Right, right, right. Then they find the pepperoni. By the way, episode two, Dorothy says, don't tell mom. I know. Remember, that came up early on where I was like, she didn't say ma. She's not saying ma yet. She said, don't tell mom. I know, I know. Dorothy says, and I love this. She's like, oh boy. I am so glad that my date with Barry is tomorrow.

The fat won't have time to show. It won't? No, it always takes a few days before it shows. Where does it go?

in the meantime. To Connecticut. How do I know where it goes? Now, I don't know if this is true or not, but ever since I saw this in this original airing in 1986, I've thought of that. Me too. This is where I learned it. Yeah. But it's not exactly true. I guess protein and carbs do take a couple of days because they have to turn what the body can't use into waste and or fats. Oh. But the fats they found out in a study, I think in 2012, they found out that

By the way, I just remember this. I had to write this down. I just remember it. But a study in 2012, fats take only four hours to hit your body. So really, what Blanche says coming up is more true. With me, the minute it goes in my mouth, I balloon up. I can go out to dinner and in the middle of the meal, my pants are cutting off my circulation so bad my feet are turning blue. And in the middle of the meal, my pants are cutting off my circulation so bad my feet are turning blue.

My fears are blue. If you don't want to gain weight, stay away from the fat. Maybe have some protein and other kinds of carbs. You'll be okay. Yeah. And Dorothy's saying she just wants to look hot for Barry. Svelte, I believe is the word. And so now we're getting into just how important Barry was to Dorothy. And then we get into really groundbreaking shit. Yes.

She says, like, Barry was the man that I wanted to be the first. Yes, but he wasn't her first because of Stan. That's right. I went to a drive-in with Stanley. He said he was being shipped off to Korea and would probably die and it would mean so much. That was my part of the war effort. It took three seconds. I wasn't sure that we had done anything, actually.

Until nine months later when the baby came. Then I figured out that we had. You know, that was my only proof. She didn't even know what happened until nine months later when she found out she was pregnant. I was like, God damn, Dot. That's a lot of backstory. That's right. And the audience found it very funny. Not horrified like you. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rose tells us that she waited to her wedding night. Blanche cannot believe it. No, this would have been a perfect get out of here. But all she says is, no.

But, you know, Rose is saying that it was like a surprise. Like the whole idea of sex was a surprise to her. And like, of course it was. That's right. This was like in the age before like porn was readily available. And like Rose was just like a quote good girl. Right. Her mother probably never sat her down and had the talk.

with her. Right. Like, of course it was a surprise to her. I'm with Rose here on this section, too. When Dorothy says, not even your father. Because Rose is saying she's never seen a penis before. That's right. And I don't want to think about that. We got to go slow through this next section. Yes. Okay? Yes. Starting with Rose's first night of actually seeing a man. Yes. Right? Her first night with Charlie. Their wedding night. So Rose is saying the first night that she had sex with Charlie was her wedding night, and she says she was appalled. Actually, that first night...

I was kind of, well, appalled, I guess. But Charlie was very patient. It was really very nice once I understood that that's what you were supposed to do. It wasn't some colossal joke, you know. I mean, didn't you think it was a ridiculous thing to do the first time?

No. And I actually love that word. I think that's a great word for it. Yeah. Because, like, if you don't know what is supposed to happen, like, of course it's appalling. Listen, my mom teaching me about the birds and the bees. I don't even know. I know that my brother Tom listens to this podcast. Yeah. Hi, Tom. Hi, Tom. This might be the first time he's hearing this story. Oh, shit, Tom. Pull over. Pull over, girl. He's going to die laughing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, basically, my...

my mother sits me down. Oh, no. And you know, your tone affects the conversation. Sure. It affects the other person's energy. Yeah. What you come to the table with with your energy. Yeah, yeah. She sits me down and she is serious as hell. And I'm like, oh, shit. What is about to happen? How old were you? I was 12. Okay. That's a good age. And she says to me, Jennifer. Oh, no. So, when a man and a woman get married and they have to have sex. Ha, ha, ha.

the man becomes excited and his penis becomes engorged with blood. And,

And I'm like, ah! Because in my head, all I was thinking of is this bloody penis. Just this, ah! Like, she's a goddamn genius. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What a way to keep me away. Totally. From this, I'm sorry, appalling, colossal joke that Rose is telling me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, damn, Yvette. I mean, engorged with blood. Engorged has to have sex. Has to. When a woman has to have sex. Oh, my God. The man becomes excited. Yes.

and his penis becomes engorged with blood. Jesus Christ, woman. Oh my God.

No one ever had the talk with me. My mom never. My mom was pretty sure I was not going to need to have the don't get her pregnant conversation. We weren't in any real danger of that. What's your mom's name? Pam. Thanks, Pam. Thanks, Pam. God, I wish Pam and Yvette knew each other. Oh, my God. They would have been like Betty White and Lucille Ball's parents. Remember, they were best friends. I love that. So when Rose refers to it as some colossal joke, Dorothy chokes on the chicken. She chokes on it. She does. You're right. Yeah.

And so, of course, she's asking them if they also thought it was ridiculous the first time. Yes, yes, yes. And it's just, I love her calling it ridiculous. Like, of course it would be ridiculous to Rose. Yeah, exactly. Blanche, of course, did not wait for her wedding night. Why? Well, I certainly didn't wait for my wedding night, honey. I couldn't. I had these urges. You know, in the South, we mature faster. I think it's the heat. Honey, I couldn't.

You know, in the South, we mature faster. I think it's the heat. The way that she described having the urges. You can see her. You can just see that 18-year-old horny Blanche. 18? You think she waited until she was 18? I was trying to make her the age of legal consent. That's all. And Blanche was saying, anyhow, her first was Billy. And she remembers it so well, just like it was yesterday. But Blanche says, anyhow, my first was Billy. Oh, I remember it so well, just like it was yesterday. That night under the dogwood trees.

The air thick with perfume and me with Billy. Oh, Bobby. Yeah, Bobby. Yeah, it was Bobby. It was Ben. Oh, who knows? Anyway, it started with B. It's so good. It's so funny. Anyway, do you remember your first time? I do. Are you willing to talk about it? Yeah, I wrote about it in my book. Oh, I didn't read your book. Yeah.

You didn't read my book. I will. I will. It's a really sweet story. And the guy is still in my life. He's so, so, so dear to me. Tell us again. Tell us again. Essentially, I was obsessed with this boy that I met at theater school. He was into boys and girls. And I was really obsessed with him. And over the course of a year, we became really good friends. And sometimes we'd fall asleep in the same bed together at sleepovers. But nothing ever really happened. But we would kind of hold hands sometimes. Aw. He was so sweet.

so hot he's still so hot i love it um and the night we were opening bye bye birdie at my high school the day before opening night he was coming down for the show he lived in boston i lived on the cape he called me and said he just i picked up on hello i want to be your first oh yeah oh and i'll never forget it i we i did the show i i mean i could we like just could not get through the show fast enough we went back to my house we wasted very quick good nights to everybody we went up to my room and

He kissed me. He had never kissed me before. And it was like, oh, I mean, I was like everything that was happening all at once. Yeah. And I remember being like, oh, my God, we need music. We need music. And I ran over to my CD player and the only options were either the original cast recording of The Who's Tommy or Miss Saigon or one of like several Indigo Girls albums. And I remember I put on...

Cedar Tree by the Indigo Girls. And I won't get into the details, but it was pretty amazing. Basically, my first was a week shy of my 18th birthday. Okay. So I was 17 going on 18. And he was from Wales. He looked like James Dean. And I said that to him. I want you to be my first, you know? And I mean, this little blanch in the making. It was in the basement gymnasium of a Catholic high school.

And I mean, I set the stage to be like a picnic, like straight out of nine and a half weeks. Oh. Like we had, I had blindfolds. No. Oh, yeah. I had food. I had Nutella. I had honey. I had whipped cream. Oh, my God. This is incredible. Just this little virgin slut. Anyway.

Oh my God. And that was my first time. Oh, that's incredible. I'm obsessed. Thank you. The nine and a half weeks wild orchid of it all did make us feel like if we weren't dripping hot candle wax on people, we were not good at sex. That was around this time. I had to be like Rose. I had to be as good as Rose at sex. Of course. Oh my God. So I'm sorry, Dad. I know. Sorry to my brothers.

I really am. But, you know, I'm old enough now. You can hear that, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. Well, I love that my friend is still in my life. I call him Logan in the book. And Logan is still in my life. He's a very good friend. I love him very much. All right. So now Rose wants to ask the ladies if they had orgasms the first time they had sex. She can't say the word. No. But she wants to know if they had orgasms. That first time, did you have...

Are you serious? How many times that first time? Many, many times. You did. You didn't? No. Oh, it was nice. Being near Charlie was nice. But it was five years before I knew what made your eyes go back in your head. Are you serious? How many times that first time? Many, many times.

It's so funny. And I don't think she's being honest, to be honest. She's not. This is a tall tale. This is one of her southern tall tales. Rose says it took her five years before she knew what made your eyes go back in your head. I know. And then Dorothy, they asked Dorothy. She said,

How could I? I mean, it always seemed to happen before I was in the room. And then all of a sudden they've noticed just how much they've eaten. Yes. And they also realize it's like so late that it's early. And I love this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then they just decide to stay up and eat. Like they're like, do you want some coffee? How about some Danish? How about some eggs? Do we have any bacon?

And you look out the window and it is just starting to come up. The sky is blue. And I have at this moment, Patrick, I was like, I want to live there. Yeah, I know. I want this place. This is so great. So it's the next scene. We're out on the lanai. Blanche is chatting with Milton. And fanning herself. Wait,

I need a fan in my dressing room. Totally. But I made a note that Blanche's beautiful yellow dress perfectly matches the lemonade in the glassware. Did you notice this? Of course I did. It's beautiful. It's a beautiful thing to look at it. It all perfectly matches. That's right. But her and Milton are flirting. They are. Full on. Okay. Okay.

Milton really wants to say to her, like, get off that diet. Men my age like a woman with a few pounds. Now, you understand that that is as garbagey as telling her she's going to lose a few pounds. Like, commenting on her body in a sexual way like that is so gross. It was never okay, but it's something that I think people are aware of now. Yes. My friend Beanie Feldstein during Hello Dolly wrote a great— Okay, casual name drop. I love her. No, I'm sorry. She was my—

I don't mean that in a bad way. She sat three inches to my right for over a year when we did Hello Dolly. Oh my God. We shared a dressing room with Melanie Moore and the three of us. And she wrote a great article. I think it was for Refinery. You can look it up. But basically, like, don't comment on my weight, whether I've lost weight or not. Yes. It's not appropriate to comment on someone's body. It's interesting because...

I love it. Like I've recently lost a lot of weight. I mean, healthfully. And I got on the weight loss drugs and did it with my doctor and went to the gym and all of that. But I like love it when people come in. Well, and that's your, that's your agency and that's your prerogative. But you do have to ask permission sometimes. Err on the side of don't do it. Err on the side of don't do it. Depends on who it is. And asking for permission, like, may I compliment something about you? Yes. Yeah. I remember one time saying to a woman, is it okay?

okay if I pay you a compliment? Right. And she said, sure. And I was like, you are so beautiful. She was like this beautiful, beautiful woman. I don't even know if that's appropriate, but I feel like that seems to go over well with most people. Yeah. Yeah. I just thought it was kind of like, oh, like he thinks it's flirty. She thinks it's flirty. It's fine. But I thought it was kind of gross. But also for me as a curvy woman, I sort of love it. A lot of my girlfriends and I talk about

the pressure that we experienced younger to be super skinny. Yes. And how now we could give a fuck. And the funny thing is, we're actually more fit than ever because we do it for, quote unquote, for us, the right reasons. Yeah. You know, we're doing it to feel good and feel healthy. Yes. And it just happens to be that we love our bodies as is. So there you go. See, self-love is where it's at. There you go. So, you know, Blanche and Milton have set a date for seven o'clock tonight. Milton is leaving. So Sophia enters and the Dorothy enters and Dorothy comes in. Hello, hello, hello. Hello.

Hello, hello, hello. I'm telling you, she's trying to come up with a catchphrase. And she's, you know, she's asking Blanche if Barry called because they had a great time and they're supposed to go out again tonight. After 35 years. Yeah. You know, and Blanche is like, how did it go? There must have been some surprise.

And Dot's like, well, his hair is a little thinner. He's put on a little weight. And she's like, so is he still your fantasy lover or is the fantasy become a reality? And this is where we learned that Barry Glick is gay. Yes, I love that. And I was saying, too, that like I am so jealous of any gay that gets to have Dorothy as their best friend. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Because like she's like he's gay. So no, but they're like she's totally excited to hang out with him. She can't wait to go. I want her to go to whatever like gay night at the petting zoo or whatever. Exactly. Exactly. Sophia knew it because of the way that he looked at Buster Gormley.

I don't know who that is. So I have to look Buster Crabb up. He was an Olympian who won the gold medal in the 400 meter relay in like the 1932 Olympics. Right, right, right. And somehow was able to parlay that into like a major, major film and television career. Get it, Buster. So I looked him up because I was like, oh, I bet he's like some gay icon. I bet he like if he was mentioned in this context. Nope.

He wasn't. Okay. He just like had this really long career where he worked in TV and film. Like, he played Tarzan and Barnaby Jones. Oh, I knew he was. Yes, yes, yes, yes. He did like all this amazing stuff. He just had a great long career, but he was gorgeous. No, I do remember him now. When you said Tarzan, I was like, that guy.

Yeah, that guy. And he was like, and then like you look at pictures of him and you're like, oh my God, this guy was like beautiful. Yeah. So it makes sense that the little gay boy liked him. I get it. I get it. So Rose enters and heads straight for the lemonade. Now she didn't get that hospital administrator job. She's in a very good mood. So they're wondering like, did you get the job? And she's like, not even close. And then I love that she went to a place. She went to a coffee shop at the Fountain Rock for a root beer float to make her feel better. Remember, she used to go and get an ice cream every Saturday.

Saturday and the soda jerk arranged them in an inappropriate manner. Right. Ice cream is her comfort food. That is. I love it. And it seems like a healthy choice, right? Totally. And so she goes, it's sweet. She's like, you know what? After she drank it, she started to get sad again. And then she says she saw the answer right in front of her. A help wanted sign. Right. And they're like, okay, what's the job? And she got a job as a waitress at the coffee shop. She said 12 hours a day, four days a week, minimum wage plus tips and a 60% employee discount on day old Danish. Blanche and Dorothy are not impressed.

A coffee shot. Day-old Danish. 12-hour days in a steamy hash joint serving chili to a bunch of grubby truckers? Oh, come on, Blanche. I mean, she's working at the Fountain Rock. It's not Mel's Diner. I mean, the worst that can happen is she'll get scratched by a pinky ring.

But 12 hours on your feet waiting tables? Honey, that is gritty, grimy, grueling work. They're judging her for getting a job as a waitress. Well, I didn't take it as judging her as much as maybe the situation. Yeah, I mean, 12 hours a day, four days a week for anybody would be way too long. Listen, I know you don't judge anyone who does that, and nor do I. I also know that I...

am limited on my pioneer women ability. I don't know that I'm strong enough, truly, physically. I don't think I could. I was a bartender for 15 years when I was like in my prime, like from my 20s to my mid 30s or whatever. And we would stand like we bartenders did not get a break. Our shift started at like 3.30. We didn't get out of there until sometimes like midnight, 12.30. And you're standing the entire time. I did. I tried catering. It just broke my body. And like you, I was in my 20s. Right. Let alone now. That's what I was meaning earlier when I talked about

the fear I feel for someone who is post, I'll just say it clinically, post-retirement age doing a job like this. You're referring to Rose. Rose or earlier, I was talking about elderly people working at Walmart or wherever. If it's by choice, that's one thing. But if you have to get a job and you literally are over 67 years old, it makes me nervous. 12 hours are too long. You know, Blanche and Dorothy, it's like, just be fucking happy for her. She got a job. And she's saying, she's like, but it's work.

If she's happy about it, they should be. Exactly. And she is. And that's kind of where they end up, right? Right. And so the episode ends with Blanche saying to Rose...

wanted to ask you about Milton from the center. Yes. Well, now that is strictly a professional relationship. Oh, absolutely. Oh, there couldn't be anything between Milton and me. He has this thing about only dating fat women. He has this thing about only dating fat women. Which is just kind of like, once again, none of them are fat. It wouldn't matter if they were, you know, but like. Right. But I think the thing that we can get behind here is the reason why it's so funny, too, is that it's Blanche who cares so goddamn much about her

Tiny little lips. Like, she's just so full of herself. Yes. And her self-esteem is through the roof. And she, you know, you saw her face. So did I. So does Blanche. Like, she can't take anything that's perceived as being anything other than 18 years old. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

And that's how it ends, Cheesecakes. Aw. Did you have fun? I loved it. Such a good episode. And Cheesecakes, don't go away because when we come back, Jen is going to do her deep dive on the movie Stop or My Mom Will Shoot starring Estelle Getty and Sylvester Stallone. I can still hear his voice. Stop or my mom will shoot. Oh, bless.

♪♪♪

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All right, girl, you're going to give us the deep dive on Stopper. My mom will shoot the Estelle Getty Sylvester Stallone together forever together at last. That's right. And actually, there's more of a connection that you might think that I learned only when I researched this. Did you get extra material because you were a member of the Sylvester Stallone fan club when you were a kid? Well, in my soul, it lives forever. Yeah. The answer is yes. OK, good. So

So let's launch right in, shall we? All right, let's do it. All right, stop or my mom will shoot. Or let me try to do an impression of my slide. Stop or my mom will shoot. Ha ha ha!

is a 1992 American buddy cop action comedy starring Sylvester Stallone and Estelle Getty. Now, here's the premise. A tough police sergeant's mother comes to visit him and promptly starts trying to fix up his life, much to his embarrassment. For his birthday, she buys him a machine gun out of the back of a van and begins to further interfere with his job and love life, eventually helping him with a case he's on.

So it was directed by a man named Roger Spudiswood. It was written by Blake Snyder. Sylvester Stallone played the part of Sergeant Joseph Andrew Joe Bumowski and Estelle Getty as Tootie Bumowski. Tootie, huh? So a little bit about the director, okay? He was a native of England and Canada. He began his career as an editor. This I loved. He wrote the 1982 film 48 Hours. Oh, wow. Starring Nick Nolte and Eddie Murphy. That was a good film.

That was a good film. That was a good film. I mean, I haven't watched it in years. It might be one of those 80s, 70s films where you're like, it's unwatchable. No, I hope not. But I remember thinking it was a great cop buddy flick. Anyway, he also directed his first film, Terror Train, starring Jamie Lee Curtis. Now, since then, he's directed films such as Turner and Hooch, and this I love. He directed the James Bond thriller, Tomorrow Never Dies. No way. What happened here, guys? Ha ha ha.

We'll get there. Our new podcast. We'll get there. So Blake Snyder, the writer, not only wrote this, but he also wrote the Disney family film Blank Check. Never saw it. Okay. Me neither. 1994. All right. No. But he became most well-known as a screenwriting teacher whose best-selling book, Save the Cat, the

the last book on screenwriting you'll ever need, 2005, encouraged a host of aspiring writers, producers, and development executives to see the patterns in all successful movies. Oh, interesting. I would want to read that book. Yeah, totally. That sounds really cool, right? Yep, yep. So this writer, in an interview, he gave the info on the origin of the film. Oh. He says, let me tell you about Stop or My Mom Will Shoot. Ha ha ha.

Please, please. This was a spec sale for which I got $500,000. Whoa! Yeah, which at the time was a good payday. I'm like, that's a good payday now. Anyway. At the time was a good payday, girl. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Hey, Richie Rich. It's good now, girl. Anyway, the bad news was after my first revision, they went out to other writers. By the time it hit the screen, there was one line left from my script. Not even the best line. What?

He says, my original inspiration for that movie was The Thin Man, which I'm like, that's a stretch, but okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He says, I saw my story as a charming mother-son crime-solving team. In my original, the mom's dog helped solve the case, but in the movie, the dog was just a prop. Oh.

He says, there's no lesson to be learned here. They paid me a handsome sum for my script and it got me a lot of meetings because everyone liked the writing. It just happens. So let's get to the casting of our girl, Estelle Getty. All right. And this is where I'm like, oh, the crossover is more than you think. So allegedly this character was supposed to be played by a much meaner character. And according to what we have here, the producers originally wanted Bea Arthur to

play the role. No! Yes. According to Sylvester Stallone, the role of the mother was originally supposed to be, as we've said, very mean and cruel, which in his mind strained the relationship with her son even more than it wanted to end up being. So during this early stage of pre-production, as said, the filmmakers, you know, approached her.

Approached Bea? Approached Bea to play the role. But she wanted to slow down her workload at the time, focusing on finishing up The Golden Girls, which was about to film its final season. And as a result, she passed on the film. When Estelle Getty found out that her Golden Girls co-star Bea passed on the film, she expressed interest as she wanted to work with Sylvester Stallone. She was a big fan of Rocky. I'm like, girl, same. And I wonder how Bea felt about that. You're like, I'm going in. I know. Anyway.

So Estelle Getty eventually was cast and her character was changed to a sweet old lady type. Okay. So the original concept was closer to a black comedy, but the mother character was almost an antagonist. But once producers cast her, Estelle, for the role, the character completely changed. They changed the character

They hired the most wonderful woman to play the part, Estelle Getty said Stallone, in an Instagram Q&A. She's like America's sweetheart, one of the Golden Girls. She's the mother that everyone says, God, I wish she could have raised me. And he says it took all that tension away. Yeah. So Stallone has since acknowledged he felt the film would have done better and he would have liked the film better if the role of the mother was mean as originally scripted. Yep.

So the casting of Sly Stallone and his feud with Arnold. Oh. Allegedly, and I knew this, Stallone and Schwarzenegger hated each other. I love that you knew this. Oh, yeah. Well, now they love each other. And the question here is what caused their earlier hatred? This wasn't in my research packet, but... It's just in your heart and your brain. It's in my heart and my brain and my soul. Allegedly, one of the reasons was because Schwarzenegger had an affair with Brigitte Nielsen, who was...

Stallone's second wife. Oh! Yeah. And I said allegedly. Okay, yeah. Their feud dates back to the 1977 Golden Globes where they were seated at the same table. So, Sylvester Stallone lost in five of the six nominated categories while Arnold won the New Star Award. Stallone claimed that Schwarzenegger laughed at his losses, leading Stallone to throw a bowl of flowers at him when Rocky...

actually won for best motion picture drama. Oh, my God. Boys, enough. I mean, you're both pretty. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So the two constantly sniped after that. But I do remember in lore, like, that competition. The Betty White, Bea Arthur of it all. Yeah, exactly. So Schwarzenegger struck a nerve when he alleged that Stallone used body doubles in a number of his films. That led many to assume that in 1985's Rocky IV...

Villainous opponent Ivan Drago had an unidentifiable accent. Many interpret it as a dig at Schwarzenegger. I'm like, but it's not like. And also like you love Stallone. You love him. I do. And also like I like studied that body. It's his body.

Jesus, God. The posters I had everywhere. What a horny 14-year-old you were. Oh, my God. So for years, this was a Hollywood legend that the feud spilled over to the stop where my mom will shoot casting process. So Schwarzenegger read the script, thought it was terrible, but decided to

purposefully leak it to the press that he was interested in starring in it in order to lure Stallone into getting jealous and trying to steal the film out from under him. According to Arnold. So he's saying that Arnold knew that it was going to be bad. So he tricked Stallone into doing it. Exactly. And Schwarzenegger wrote,

It's 100% true. No, I can't do his accent. So Schwarzenegger says it's 100% true. In those days, we did all kinds of crazy things to get ahead in our rivalry. Luckily for us and everyone else today, we root for each other. Thank God, because we sure don't ever need another stop or my mom will shoot.

He says, I read the script. It was so bad. You know, I've also done some movies that went right in the toilet, right? They were bad, but this was really bad. So I went in. Oh, my God. This was during our war. I said to myself, I'm going to leak out that I have tremendous interest. I know the way it works in Hollywood. I would then ask for a lot of money. So then they'd say, let's go give it to Sly. Maybe we can get him for cheaper. Sly.

So they told Sly, Schwarzenegger's interested. Here's the press clippings. He's talked about that. If you want to grab that one away from him, that is available. And he went for it. He totally went for it. Stallone, you idiot. A week. Don't you talk about my Sly like that. A week later, I heard about it. Sly is signing now to do this movie. And I said, pump's fist.

Oh, my God. Jeez Louise. So Stallone also confirmed the story. He said, I had heard Schwarzenegger was going to do that movie. And I said, I'm going to beat him to it. I think he set me up. Have you ever? That's incredible. Oh, the cat fight of it all. Oh, my God. It's so good. So good. I have a note here. Patrick, this is the best part of the deep dive. Allegedly, Estelle Getty did her own stunts for the film.

Stallone dared her to do them. Oh, my God. He told me, don't be such a wimp. Estelle, who was 67 years old at the time, said that she endured such experiences as being slammed into a plane, driving over sandbags and being carried on Stallone's shoulder as he ran through a warehouse that was being demolished.

I told him, don't use my head for a ramrod. To which he replied, why? You got something in there I don't know about? She was a huge fan of working with him. She describes her relationship with Sly as a real love affair. She says, a real one? I mean, still. I'm jealous, girl. Anyway, she says she and Stallone hit it off right from the start. Sylvester is one of the funniest people in the world, she says. Oh, God, is he funny. He was a big surprise. He's literate, thanks? Ha ha ha.

Surprising? All right. You know, he did write the script of Rocky at 29. He's like a really smart guy. He's a very smart man. Yeah. Painted his windows black to write that in three days. Don't, don't. He's literate. Anyway. That's all right. I'm going to let it slide. You're okay. I'm okay. I'm all right. I'm all right. I'm all right. He's literate, intelligent, funny, and very quick-witted. And he's a very good guy. He doesn't like to be known as a good guy because he does everything very quietly. He helps people out, but very quietly. There's much more to Sly Stallone than meets the eye. Yeah.

All right. So she says Stallone is also very flirtatious. I'm like, does he purr into a microphone? I don't know. But he has to flirt with everybody and he makes innuendos all sexual to everybody. Well, not anymore, I'm sure. But anyway, you know, but me included. I think it's his stock and trade. Oh, no. Anyway, I should cut this up. His style is sexy. He's terribly attractive. Okay, I

- It is though, we got it. - Yeah, we got it. All right, the critical reception. - Oh no.

Stopper My Mom Will Shoot won three Razzies and scored bad reviews across the board. Even Stallone holds nothing but contempt for this project. Sucker. You sucker, Stallone. In a 2006 interview with Ain't It Cool News, I'm going to go say no because it's called Ain't It Cool News. Anyway, the actor pegged it as, quote, maybe one of the worst films in the entire solar system, end quote, and that a flatworm could write a better script. Oh, wow.

All right. Unfortunately and unsurprisingly, the critical reception was Estelle's worst case scenario based on her comments prior to the film's release. Estelle said that she was nervous about seeing the completed picture. Quote, I'm afraid I won't like myself. I've been a stage actress all my life. She said that this is not her first feature film, but it is my first starring role and that makes a difference. Uh-huh. But I want to end with some love for the two of them. Great. One review said, Stallone has developed into an accomplished comedy actor.

knowing to react to situations rather than cause them. Getty has the role of her lifetime, spouting one-liners with fine precision. I don't know that that was the role of her lifetime. I think we know what the role of her lifetime was. Can we give them a win here? Just throw them a bomb, Patrick. You're right, you're right. Just go with it. Get a little hard on them. Just go with it. And even though the film received highly negative reviews upon release, it grossed $70.6 million worldwide. Whoa! So... That's pretty good, I guess. I mean, that's...

that's a lot of money. Yeah, that's pretty good. We'll take it. We'll take it. Oh my God. Bitty titty. That was a great deep dive on Stop or My Mom Will Shoot Girl. I'm very impressed. Be Arthur. Oh my God. Oh, that's wild. Isn't that funny? That's crazy. Anyway. Cheesecakes, join the Facebook group. It's the Golden Girls Deep Dive Podcast Discussion Group. Keep those Apple and Spotify reviews coming. They're so nice. They're so good. We love them so much. Yeah, and if you have something to tell us, if you have notes for us, believe me, Steve loves giving us notes. He does.

You can write us at info at goldengirlsdeepdive.com. Also, thank you for being a friend by telling a friend about our podcast.

Every time I do it, you close your eyes. Every single time. It's so great. Tell a friend, share this episode with five friends you think would find that deep dive hilarious. Actually, yeah. Would you do that for us? Share it with five friends. That's my ask. Would you pretty please do that? No, do it for me and my sly. Yes, exactly. Do it for us. Do it for us. All right, Cheesecakes, we love you. Love you, bye. Bye.

Cheesecakes, Patrick here. The holidays are upon us and we just wanted to let you know you are going to be getting episodes from us every single week. We are taking no time off for the holidays. Just make sure you're subscribed to the Golden Girls Deep Dive podcast so you get our episodes as soon as they drop. And we love you.