End of the Curse (Season 2 Episode 1)
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Hi, Jennifer Simard. Oh, hi, Patrick Hines. I've missed you. I've missed you to Cheesecakes. This will mean nothing to you because you will experience no break in the flow, but we have not been in the booth together for over two months. Right. Tell the Cheesecakes why. Well, I was opening a new Broadway show called Death Becomes Her. Yes. It's the musical. It's on Broadway now based on the classic film Death Becomes Her. I have the distinct honor of stepping into Goldie Hawn's red stilettos in the role of Helen Sharp, and we are open. It is the same.

Smash hit of the season. I saw it in Chicago. I saw it here. You were so sweet to invite us to opening night. It is so, so good. Are you having the time of your life? Yeah, it's a big responsibility and an even greater joy. I mean, so many women would give the hole in their stomach, so to speak.

to get to do this, but for some reason I got to and I don't take it for granted and I'm very grateful. I hope I live up to the responsibility. It is really going well. Everyone seems to love, love, love the show and you'd know that this is where I've been if you're on our Facebook

Oh, she's transitioning away. That's right. So if you join the Facebook group, it's the Golden Girls Deep Dive Podcast Discussion Group. Get in there. Talk about Death Becomes Her. Talk about the Golden Girls. Talk about our podcast. Talk about whatever the hell you want. It's just a really fun place to come and hang out with us. Yeah, it is. And you get all the behind-the-scenes stuff. So do that. You'll have a good time. One more thing, just to remind you all, because it's the beginning of a new season. Yeah. What we do here, we do...

our regular recap where we do a hilarious, funny, and good-looking deep dive of the episode. We do mini deep dives throughout. And then at the end of each episode, we do a fully researched deep dive from something from the Golden Girls universe. Yeah. I'm doing it today. Do you want to know what it is? I do. I'm doing a deep dive on...

on the movie Mannequin. Oh my gosh. Now tell us why, or do you want to save the reason why? I'll just say that Estelle Getty is one of the stars. She did the movie in between seasons one and two of The Golden Girls. So that's kind of what brings it into the universe. It is a classic film from my childhood. I absolutely love it. It was so much fun to do this deep dive. I was up at four in the morning re-watching the movie. I have so much to say. So stay tuned at the end of the app for my deep dive.

I'm very excited to hear that. And I'm also very excited not only to recap this episode, but I'm reminded how much I love, love, love our little mini deep dive sprinkles. Oh my God, me too. And thank you to our researcher, Jess, and to ourselves. And to ourselves.

Well, shall we jump in? Let's do it. When did this episode drop? This dropped September 27th, 1986. And this was a big week. I was going to say, we usually do like a current event or two. Yeah. A movie that came out this week was a movie called The Boy That Could Fly. Do you remember this movie? Yes.

It's one of those 80s movies that I feel like I was the only person who saw it and I was absolutely obsessed with it. Okay. They start Jay Underwood and it's basically the story of these like two houses that are kind of next to each other and the kids in both houses are really suffering. Like the Jay Underwood character, he's a nonverbal teenager and he lost both of his parents and the teenage girl across the street, her parents just got divorced and they're going through a hard time and they...

Mm-hmm.

And nobody knows that he can fly but her. And they like grab hands and they jump off the roof of the school. And they almost hit the ground, but then they like take off and fly away. And then like they fly around for like four minutes. Then he brings her home and then he flies off into the sunset, like never to be seen again. So I love this movie. But in doing this mini deep dive on it, I learned something even cooler. So the guy who wrote and directed the movie, his name is Nick Cass.

Mm-hmm.

We need somebody to wear this like rubber mask and like be the bad guy. Like there's no lines. You don't have to, you just kind of have to like walk around menacingly. So this guy, Nick Castle, who would go on to direct The Boy That Can Fly, was like, sure, I'll do it. Like whatever. Puts on this rubber mask. He's Michael Myers in the original Halloween movie. Yeah. The only horror movie I actually like. Yeah. And not only that, like it's a yearly viewing for me. Oh, really? Yeah. And his friend is none other than John Carpenter. Exactly. That's his buddy from college. He just wanted to hang with John. Just hang with him on the set. But,

I was just like in doing this little mini deep dive. I was so happy to find this other little mini deep dive about him being in the original Halloween movie. Are you kidding me? Oh my God. It's my favorite. Annie forever. But yes, this, like we said, this episode aired September 27th, 1986. It's season two, episode one. It's called end of the,

Curse. Yes. Written by Susan Harris, directed by our good old pal Terry Hughes. Yes. And also this week, this is very major, at the 38th Emmy Awards, the week that this aired, the Golden Girls won Outstanding Comedy Series for Season 1. Oh, my goodness. Outstanding Lead Actress, Betty White. Oh, my goodness. Outstanding Writing in a Comedy Series for A Little Romance, written by Mort Nathan and Barry Fennaro.

And they did get nine total nominations. So, like, what a way to go into season two. I know. Like, they were a hit immediately. Immediately. Stan Zimmerman talks about that all the time. They were really protective of the show because they knew from the pilot that they had a serious hit on their hands. Yeah, yeah. Sort of like Death Becomes for the Musical. Look, girl, like, your amount to God, that is a truism you just said. And the last thing I have to say, because I loved this song, on the Billboard charts, number three this week was this little number. See if you recognize it. Okay.

What a feeling when we're dancing on the ceiling. That's Lionel Richie. Oh, my God. That's not my impression of Lionel Richie. That was a really good Lionel Richie. Thank you so much. So we open in the garage and I was saying like it's a really fun way to open a new season by showing us a new space. Right. We love those moments where we, you know, we're like,

Where they filmed in the living room where the TV bar cart lived. Totally. That's always refreshing. Totally. And again, the location of the garage. Listen, I've got a mini deep dive on this in a minute. I'm going to hold it for a second. Of course. It is wild. But we're in there and Dorothy and Rose are cleaning a set of six rolling rack cages. Can I just say, once again, the layers upon layers upon layers. They are bundled up.

Yeah. Like it is Juno, Alaska. Oh yeah. Dots in her signature art smock. She has never met a color of throw up brown that she can't rock. She wears another brown outfit in this episode later. I'm like, can they put her in a color that is not the ugliest color on earth? Especially in this

drab garage, right? Because Rose, at least, she's in her baby blue pants and some sort of farm motif sweater. It's got like little clouds on it. It's like a sweater vest. Yes, it's very, it's very Rose. Oh, God. But I said Dorothy looking exhausted in a vomit brown long sleeve over shirt and a white sweater. It is Miami. Yes. And this is a good setup for a joke, though, by our gal Susan Harris.

And they say the Everglades are drying up and being built on. No. Yes, yes, such a beautiful place. No, eventually there won't be any land anywhere. It's really a shame. Oh, it is. It really is. You know what's also a shame? What? When you sit down and your thighs squish out to twice their size. That's a shame.

And it's true. I talk about it in my cabaret, like when you sit on a stool. I know. Can I tell you that I've been exercising a lot this last year? I've got pretty strong legs. I run and I squat. But I'm telling you, when I was wearing my slutty short shorts this summer, I would sit down and I'm like, my legs turn into the Great Lakes. That's my issue. I have...

very strong thighs that could choke a bear, right? Like just a male Romanian gymnast. You are not afraid of running into a bear in the forest because you could choke him with those bangers. You know what I would do? I would entice him to make love to me. And then I would wrap my...

My very generous thighs right around his bare neck. And that'd be it. That's the bear dying. That's the bear dying. And then I would skin him and have a nice coat. Sorry, faux coat. But like, let me say how inappropriate that is and how inappropriate.

And out of context and character, this whole thing is to me... Even back in 86, I was like... I know. Mink? What? This is what they're doing. They're planning on breeding minks. And I have the note here. Whose idea was this? There are so many ways that they could try to make money. Like, they tried a garage sale. They tried the bacon, lettuce, potato business. Yeah. Like, you guys are going to breed minks? I know. And also, can we just get out of the way the difference between minks and minks? What? So, like, we're talking...

M-I-N-K-S, right? But every time you say minx, I'm like, M-I-N-X, like a minx. Like a minx? Like a minx.

Like my friend Jennifer Simone's a minx. Every time I'm like, wait a minute, which kind of minx am I talking about? But like, and again, you know, Dorothy, she seems not the person. Like, it seems like something Blanche would do. Dorothy? And it's like, it seems like a project that Rose and Dorothy are working on together. Yeah. We know that Dot barely tolerates Rose. Yeah. We're going to see her slap the living shit out of her later in this episode. I can't wait. I counted 15 times. Well, anyway, so.

But it's like, it took me all the way to the end of the episode to understand that this bee storyline is here for the metaphor, which we'll get to later. Correct, but we couldn't choose any other animal. I know. Okay. Like, Blanche is just going to let rodents live in the garage. You know what I mean? I know. And you see, like, you know, there's no internet when they were doing this in a usable fashion. So there's what, Susan Harris down at the library, like, with, like, a microfiche, you know, dialed in.

in her hair. Holding up a bun and just the dialing like, you know, is she looking at old newspapers? I don't know, but she's just... This show was written in the 1870s. I know, I know. Sophia's entered and she has a bunch of newspapers and she sits in a wicker chair that might have been old furniture from season one. I'm not sure. It's a

Like, we're in the garage, but, like, it looks like a car has never been parked in there. No. It's all wood paneling. That's right. Well, think about it now. They all brought their lives to this house. I guess that's true. Like, they need to store it somewhere. There's no basement. No. No.

You know, that's it. No, that's true. They're having this whole conversation about like Dorothy's that please that Rose is like into this business. Oh, I am just so excited about doing this. Mink breeding is such a great idea. You know, I didn't think you'd like it. Why? Well, I know how you feel about animals. And since we're breeding mink for fur, eventually they're going to have to be killed. And I just didn't think you'd go for it. Do they have to be killed? No, Rose. Many women like wearing coats that urinate. What?

And in this moment, I want you all to look behind Bea Arthur because there's vampire garlic hanging right behind her. I don't think that was an accident. I can just see the director with his camera and cinematographer just like, little to the right, little to the right, little to the right. There you go.

She's really bitching me out today. I want those there. I was going to say, too, that, like, Rose is explaining she understands that animals have to die. She grew up working on a farm. And she's like, it's the cycle of life. Animals serve man, then they go to heaven. And Dorothy doesn't believe that animals go to heaven, to which I took personal offense. Really? Like, where do you think they go, Dorothy? Well, that's the Rose in you, dear. I know.

Isn't it? I will say this, too. In this moment, because I'm sure you'll touch upon this later. Yeah. Rose is sitting and we see what looks like Cinderblock Alley right behind Rose, but not so fast in this house of deceit. You know? Totally. No, I've got a whole thing. It's going to be wild. Because when they reenter the kitchen, it's like, well, where is this garage? Where is the garage? I thought that was the pantry. Nope. Can we go back to heaven for just a second? Yes. I'm sorry we left. I'm with Rose.

I got to believe that animals, like, that's where all the animals go. I believe it's all animals and zero human beings, honestly. No.

You've not met a single person worthy of going to heaven. Well. Not once in your life. Maybe Yvette Samari, but even she is in like the stand-up comic lounge, you know, entertaining the animals. You know that my husband, Steve, firmly believes that there's an endless heaven buffet, that when you get to heaven, there's just a buffet full of all of your favorite foods that you can eat as much as you want and you never get full and you never get fat. God, I hope not. I hate a buffet. No, I do. I hate a buffet.

You would see we're going to very different heavens, I think. No, I like a nice sit-down situation where Grosserstein isn't sneezing underneath the sneeze guard onto my buffet. No, it's your own personal endless heaven buffet. You get your own. If everyone has their own buffet, that's fine. Because you know what? I'm not sneezing on the buffet like every other mofo I've seen do. It's so disgusting. Mine is full of bourbon and spicy tuna rolls. That's all I need.

Wait, no, you need that McFlurry, your shamrock shake or something. I do need a shamrock shake. I would like some pizza. You know, I would. Did you get McDonald's today? I did. What did you get? I got a crispy chicken sandwich and the fries, like you said. I recommended that he do that. Because of my voice. You needed to retain water a little bit to help. And that's a good trick. I don't think I need any help retaining water over here. So Rose asks if Blanche is going to help. And this is where we learn that nobody's seen Blanche for a while because she's taken to the bed. Isn't Blanche going to help?

No, she still won't come out of her room. Oh, she's never been in her room that long. Except for that time with a lifeguard. No, she must really be depressed. She'll cheer up when the minks come. If they come from Neiman Marcus.

So, like, they're just sort of going back and forth about the minx and what they're going to do and what's going to become of the minx or whatever. And Blanche appears in the doorway. Looking lovely in an aqua satin robe. Yes. And Dorothy to Rosie, oh, Blanche, you must be feeling better. And this is the first of many too aghast, you know, jokes that Blanche has throughout the episode. But she's like, better, better. Oh, Blanche, you must be feeling better. Better, better. Oh.

She storms out. Now, this is the kind of thing where I want that silent movie piano underneath it because they all chase her. Because they chase Blanche into the house. Blanche is running a thousand miles an hour. That's right. They follow her into the kitchen and then ultimately to the living room. I have...

from the second cinder block alley? So this is where I have my deep dive on the layout of the house. They chase Blanche in through the kitchen, in the living room. I'm like, wait a second, where is this garage, right? And so here's what I found out. Due to the changing of the script writers throughout the series, especially in the beginning, the layout of the house changed and fluctuated throughout the show's seven-year run. And an official blueprint or layout of the home was never created. So

So the writers never had anything to reference when having the characters move around the house. You could kind of just put anything anywhere. Like, we always see this. People have different rooms on different weeks. The hallway is in one configuration. There's something, that enormous bathroom. Remember that? Yep, yep, yep. And we know that this sort of started in one of our very first deep dives when we talked about in the pilot when they had to add the kitchen. Yeah. And they're like, oh, we'll fix that later. And they just, like, never did. Yeah. But according to Wikipedia, because I was really curious about

where is the garage in the house? We see them coming in from the garage into the kitchen. Right. But you can see the garage from the driveway. So that's exactly it. So according to Wikipedia, in the pilot episode, The Engagement, it's established that the exit from the kitchen becomes the exit into the garage. So I guess that happened in the first episode. But however, that would mean that the garage would be extending into the rear hallway and into the bedrooms of Sophia and Dorothy, which are right behind the kitchen, right? Maybe that's why Dorothy and Rose were fighting over that bedroom. But

Basically, they live in the garage. They live in the garage. And, you know, it says that moreover, this also didn't match the external shots of the house, which clearly have the garage at the front of the home. Yeah. So according to the exterior shots of the house, the garage would have been located on the right side of the house when facing the house from the outside, which would place the garage off the living room and the right side of the kitchen. At the end of the day, the long and the short of it is just that the studio audience and the cameras are...

where the garage would be in the realistic layout of the house. Oh, you can keep going. I'm just saying they exhaust me. I know. This house. But that house is going to send me. I know. I'm not drinking alcohol this year at all. I know. This house layout might do it. It's going to drive you to drink. I know. Well, we're back to the episode. Dorothy and Rose have chased Blanche into the house to find out what is wrong.

Blanche, what's wrong? Nothing. What is it, Blanche? Nothing. But you've been crying, honey. Or are those tears of joy? Joy, joy, joy. Is that joy? It doesn't look like joy. Blanche, what is wrong? I'm eating, I'm eating. Eating is good. And I'm nauseated, I'm so nauseated. Then stop eating. How did this happen to me? How?

Blanche starts to go on with a list of, you know... Symptoms. Symptoms. She's eating a lot. She's nauseated. She's wondering, how did this happen to me? She says, how, with an H-A-U accent. How? How? And they finally get her to spit it out. Blanche is pregnant. And Rose faints. I mean, I...

I made a note here that she faints onto the couch. It looks very much like you would do it in a play. You know, it would have been funnier if she'd been behind the couch and she actually timbered. She actually hit the deck. Or on the floor. Like under the floor. Like if the illusion was that like she's behind the couch and she actually fell onto the floor. Yeah. And that of course would have been more complicated because you'd hurt yourself probably going all the way to the floor. There'd have to be a hot mattress, you know, because I was thinking to myself,

physical comedy or do something similar in the show. It's, you know, I was impressed with Betty White. Did it, you know, sweet. Yeah. But she faints and Dorothy runs over Rose, Rose and be sweet.

Slaps Betty's face. I'm going to say B slaps Betty's face. That's what's happening. All right. No. We see about 11 slaps, but off camera, you hear it make it to 15. I love that they were shooting the scene. Betty faints. And B was like, can we take up time? I got an idea for my character. I know what my character would do here. You know that B to the director was like, I don't think we got it. Let's roll again.

Patrick's jumping up and down. I don't think we got it. You know, 15 takes later. Can we go again? Can we go again? I just want to try this different energy.

But Blanche is in shock. And they're talking about how Rose fainted. And Blanche is saying, I would have fainted myself, except I'm afraid I would have fallen face down and chipped my beautiful teeth. I'd also like to back up a hair and just say that once Rose does come to, Dorothy starts rubbing her hand, like, presumably to get her warm. Like, no apologies. It's what the abuser always does. You know what I mean? Yes, exactly.

So, Sophia is asking what this shocking news is, and Rose informs her that Blanche is pregnant. Blanche says she did a home pregnancy test. It's right here. They go through this whole thing about what color the test actually is. And it's basically a setup for a good joke from Dorothy, essentially. Like, you know, when people are just talking and not paying attention to you, right? Yes, yes. See...

It starts out red, and then if it doesn't change color, if it stays red, they say you're not pregnant. But if you are pregnant, then it turns light pink or light gray. I had drapes that color once. I think it's called puce. Is that what puce is? I always wondered. That's what the decorator told me. Looks kind of lavender to me. Oh, I hated those drapes. Lavender's a great color on me. Brings out my eyes. Your eyes aren't lavender. Girls! Girls!

What's so good about it is that it's always off camera. Yeah. You know, you hear Dorothy scream like she's been shot. Just so impatient. Oh, my God. It is. Every time it happens, I jump out of my skin. It is my favorite moment of the episode. But her point is, who cares? Yeah. Let's get to the nitty gritty. Who's the dad? Who's the father? And this has not occurred.

occurred to Blanche. Blanche clearly knows she's been pregnant for days. That's why she hasn't left her room. This is such a good episode of Blanche only thinking about herself. She's not thinking about the father. She's not thinking about the baby. That comes up at the end. I'm going to go there right now where she comes into the garage and then they have this whole scene and then she's like, oh, the mink are

Mink are still here. Like, I mean, it's hard to miss this. I love that she plays it. Like, that is just who Blanche is because the idea with the dad has not occurred to her. But now we have some really good fodder to play with here. Yeah. So Dorothy's like, go get your book. We got to figure out what you were doing that week. Right. First of all, a book, for those of you who don't know, you know, you actually had a date book with paper and pen. But I do have to say Blanche has

awfully good recall as someone in her 50s. I'm like, wait a minute. Like, when Dorothy asks her when her fertile period is, she doesn't miss a beat. She says, well, let's see. I'm nine weeks late. It would have been two weeks before that. So about 11 weeks. I'm like, I'd be like, I don't know what I had for breakfast. What are you talking about? For somebody who has as much sex as Blanche does, she probably is on top of that stuff. You don't know my life, Patrick. How dare you?

How dare you? You know what? You're absolutely right. Don't just act like I just... You seem like... Don't just act like I work all the time, go home in bed by myself and watch Dateline all night. You seem like the person who's got plenty of time to be hitting the bars after work. Yeah. Your night job, as I call it. You don't know me. But yes, to your point, yes. But like, you know, it's been nine weeks. That's right. She's late by nine weeks, right? So she leaves. And of course, Rose starts telling a story about how they had a pig once.

All the male pigs loved her. And I found this next sentence so funny. We had a pig once. All the male pigs loved her. Oh, she was very beautiful. And she got pregnant and we never knew who the father was. Oh, my God, Rose, what did you do on Father's Day? It's just a drive-by. She's like, oh, she was very beautiful. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

Dorothy screams another punchline. She does, but I loved it. I thought it's so dramatic. And the thing is... Can you give us a line reading? I will, because here's the thing. Bea Arthur, master as she is at dry delivery, made this choice, and I think it was far superior. She was just like, oh my God, Rose, what did you do on Father's Day? Yeah.

Just so concerned. It's so good. It's so good. Oh, my God. I know. Well, Blanche goes back with her book. We learn that Blanche slept with too many men in that fertile period window for her to be able to narrow it down. Well, that was a particularly active time for me. I was looking quite stunning. You know, I just had my teeth bonded and I was really irresistible. Hello, Blanche. A few people. How many is a few? Two? Three? Do we hear four?

Well, that was more like a 10-day, two-week span. For me, that's a lifetime span. Now, can we talk about this for a second? Yeah. Because any...

with a sexually active gay man in their life knows this is a low number. Like, it's not, you know what I mean? Like, because Dorothy and Rose are saying, Blanche had sex with more men in one week than they have had sex with in their entire lives. Yeah. And I was just thinking, like, I know so many single gay men who it's just like could be multiple in a day. Oh, sure. You know? And as far as that lifetime span, I started to count, and correct me if I'm wrong, at least what we've seen so far. So Dorothy's had Stan. Yep.

Glenn. Dr. Elliot Clayton, maybe. They were a firm handshake couple. That's right. Right? Rose, she had Charlie, Arnie, Al. Oh, yeah. He died in bed. Isn't that it, though? Right. Because she didn't have Dr. Jonathan Newman. You're right. Yeah, you're right. So they're each at like three. That doesn't seem like enough. Enough sex? Yeah. Oh, I agree. Okay. I mean, I don't know who you're talking to, but yeah, I agree. You all have my super slutty friend, Jen Simard, right? Yeah.

Playbill, you listen to this, don't you? So Blanche is just, you know, filled with anxiety. She says, do you realize I'll be 65 years old when this child graduates high school? Sophia says, try 70. I think it's really interesting that there's no discussion of Blanche having an abortion. Never even comes up. Well, their Q scores would go down. You're right.

They learned the hard way. They learned the hard way. Dorothy got that job with the skin of her teeth. It was probably in there. Yeah. And, you know, and Bea was like, no, we can't. Especially because, like, Susan Harris is around. You know what I mean? But NBC. I guess. I'm sure that was at least a discussion because they nearly didn't give the job to Bea Arthur for that precise reason because of the controversy from Maude. It doesn't come up, which is unrealistic. It is unrealistic. Even if she's not going to have the baby, somebody would at least say, you don't have to. Yeah.

The danger to her health is going to come up. And there's more about that later. Yeah. We'll get there. We'll get there. We'll get there. Blanche's biggest concern about the whole thing is not being the hottest mom. Do you realize I'll be 65 years old when this child graduates high school? Try 70. I'll be the oldest mother. What I always loved about my children was everybody thought I was their sister.

My body will never come back from this one. It barely came back from the last one. This is too depressing. I'm going back to bed. She's gonna have a baby. And if it's a boy, she can name it after its father, Rick Joe Bob Don Dave.

You know what's really interesting about that moment? Yeah. She's reading a book, and I actually slowed it down to see if you could see her lines written for her. Yeah. You kind of can. Of course, yeah. You almost can see the script in the book she's reading. Yeah. Well, the book being the date book. She's grabbed the date book. Oh, is that what that is? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh. I, like, really looked. I'm like, you can kind of see where somebody's wedged in, like, a piece of the script. But I wonder, if I am correct, and it's the date book...

props would have it written in there. Do you know what I mean? Totally. Because Blanche would have written their names down. Yeah, that's true. Oh, good thinking. Well, I'm a professional, Patrick. I know.

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So Blanche takes to the bed. It's too depressing. She's going to bed. It's a different day. I said, we're back in the garage for the weirdest B storyline of all time. Them raising minks. I just have like in all caps, they are breeding minks. It's so bizarre. Makes no sense. Look, I was 16 years old watching it going, huh? I know.

You know? I mean, cheesecakes, it's all for the metaphor in the end. We'll get there. But I'm like watching it to get to that point. You're like, what? What is this storyline? This makes no sense. Like, it sounds so expensive. Yeah. It sounds like really time consuming. Exactly. You know what I mean? And they are in the whole, to your point of a metaphor, the minks aren't stooping. And of course, you know, Blanche is afraid, as we'll soon find out, that she's not going to be able to stoop anymore. Yes. Yes. Uh.

It's a funny setup here, though, where Dorothy's like, well, the minks need an aphrodisiac. And like Rose, of course, has no idea what an aphrodisiac is. That's right. Yeah. So Dorothy has to explain it to her and she brings up the Spanish fly. Right.

Right.

I don't care, Rose. Forget it. I don't care. The minks can just sit there. Just don't mention Spanish fly to me ever again. This dissolves into like a really hilarious conversation about like, what is Spanish fly? Everything aside, my biggest takeaway was, am I the only one shocked to find out that Rose has been to Spain? Oh. You know what I mean? Like, imagine Rose in Spain. That makes no sense to me. No, I just keep coming back to the

I don't know, the racism of it all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this isn't the first script where it's... Been an issue. Been an issue with Jews and the... And I'm using her words, not mine. Yeah, of course. And now... And we'll get there. In fact, the end of this joke, it's like, how do they know it's Spanish? Because it wears a little sombrero rose. And I wrote, nope.

Nope. I know. And your sombrero is a symbol of Mexican culture, not Spanish culture. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Our girl Blanche has entered and she's wearing white with a cute red bag and cute red shoes. She's been to the doctor. That's right. Oh, Blanche, what did the doctor say? Say? Say!

The double outrage moment. Say, say! She flies back into the house to her bedroom this time. Now, we're in the hallway outside of her bedroom, but also where that enormous bathroom was from season one. And I thought, huh, we're going to do a whole scene here. I love that we're getting all of the spaces of the house that we've never really spent any time in before. Yeah, exactly. That's a good observation. Or as you would say, observation. It's a good observation. And I have to say, this next joke made me so happy. It's

Blanche? Blanche, what happened? Blanche! Blanche? She's in there. Really, Columbo? Nice.

Hi, Jillian. But no, the she's in there said so matter of factly is really funny. And it has to have the pause after it to make it even funnier. I wrote, I would definitely have said that. In that exact same thing, you and I are chasing Jillian down the hallway. Jillian slams locks herself in the room. Well, she's in there. And I would be like, why don't you go out to the night? Jillian and I will handle this.

Oh my God. The sitcom where you and me and Jillian live in a house together. I can't speak for Jillian. Neither can you. I'm just going to say.

You would be the classic buffoon dad in that scenario, right? No question. I'm guessing. No question. She's in there. That is a really funny line. It's so funny. It's so funny and it's well executed. I mean, because it's got to be both, right? Like a line like that has to, like the actress has to recognize that that's really funny. Yeah. And be able to make it funny. So they ask Blanche what's wrong.

And, you know, through the door, she's saying, oh, the worst, just the worst thing ever. Now, Dorothy and Rose assume that Blanche is worried about the health of the baby. She is not. Correct. You know, Dorothy is saying, it's OK. Like, we're going to be fine. We're going to, you know, we're going to help you raise the baby. We're going to do this together. They all and this this thing happens throughout the series. They have this fantasy of them all raising children together. Like they all.

loved being mothers and they all want to like raise kids together. That's right. Dorothy is saying, I'll help with the homework and Rose is going to help with the carpool. And then they get into a fight over like where the kid's going to go to college. Exactly. You know, and all of this drives Blanche to open the door with a Kleenex to say he's not going anywhere, i.e. to college because she's not pregnant. It's much more

worse. Yes. And now there really is a shift in tone here. And she's brilliant. The actress, Rue McClanahan, is brilliant. She really is because immediately nothing's funny anymore and it's like, oh my god, she could be seriously sick. Yeah. And that's sort of like what we think is we're about to be told. And Rose thinks that too. I'm sorry for thinking all those bad things about you when I thought you were pregnant. Like what a slut you were for having all those men.

That thing's only a tramp, you do. But now that you're dying, I mean, please forgive me, Blanche. I didn't know, please. I am not dying, Rose, but I might as well be. It's menopause. Well, I wish I could die, because as far as I'm concerned, this is the end of my life.

And she really lays into this where she says, like, what a slut. She shakes her head. Like, what a slut you were. And in that moment, the look and camera pick up on Blanche's face slash Rude McClanahan's genius acting. It's so good. She's like, like, what a slut you were for having all those men. The things only a tramp would do.

But now that you're dying, I mean, please forgive me. I didn't know. Oh, my God. Like, the way... I'm sorry for all the bad things I thought about you. Pause. I'm going to give you some examples. Like, what a slut I thought you were. Oh, it's so good. So good. But Blanche tells her that she's not dying, but she might as well be. Yeah. It's menopause. No, no.

we're going to get into a whole conversation about menopause for the rest of the episode. I think it is a really, I'm a man. I'm not trying to say that I know anything or, but I think it is a really interesting conversation. My mother, by the way, started going through menopause right at this time. And I remember my mother, I was what, 13. My mother would,

talk to me about it. Yeah. So I was very aware of menopause at this age. I knew what it was when I first saw this episode. Yeah. And the three women primarily here that we're dealing with, like their different approaches to menopause, their different understandings of what it means to them is really, really interesting. Well, I'm going to take up the torch on this one a little bit. I am 54 years old. I am perimenopausal. And what does that mean? So menopause is

is when you've stopped your menstrual cycle. Well, technically, you're in menopause when you've not had a period for a year. OK, so in perimenopause, you can be in that for over a decade, you know, but where your your period starts to slow down and you're you're essentially ramping up to not having a period anymore, i.e. able to bear children. But as I'm going to say in a very broad overview, and I'm going to give you a really good resource later. Oh, yes. There are

so many more symptoms to menopause that I didn't know about, that most women don't know about, that they certainly didn't know about here in the 80s. Yes. They didn't talk about. I'm going to get on my soapbox a little bit here. Please, please. But we spend a lot of money on little blue pills in this country so men can have boners. Oh, yeah. You know, we need to do better by women's health. Oh, my God, yes. Reproductive health, all of it. I'm not saying that as a...

Oh, that perimenopausal emotional woman, which is the stigma attached to it, quite frankly. Oh, and even Dorothy says it regarding premenstrual syndrome. You know, like, no, it's not a woman getting crazy once a month. There are so many hormonal things going on in your body. We need to educate women more. More on that later. But I do want to talk about something we talked about earlier, which is a little bit more about pregnancy and women at this age. Right. OK, so Blanche, the character, she was 55 years old in this episode. And as I said, Cheesecakes, hi, I'm 54.

Now, according to the season three episode Mother's Day, it was revealed that Blanche was 17 years old in 1949. So in 85, when the series began, she was 53. So throughout the series, she ages between 53 and 60. All right. Most women begin their menopausal transition somewhere between 45 and 55. Like I said, it's approximately a 10 year thing, give or take. Right. Right.

The process may last several years. Women reach it at different ages, menopause, that is. And the average age of menopause in the United States is 52. So in the United States, between 1997 and 1999, 539 births were reported among mothers over age 50, to your question earlier, with 194 of those being menopausal.

for women over 55. Wow. And that does make me curious because technically I could still have a baby. Yep. You know? I have a friend whose mother had a baby at 49. Wow. Yeah. Okay. The number of women having children over the age of 50 has skyrocketed since then. So in 2022, this number significantly increased to over 1,200 births among women. Wow. Over age 50. Right? So that's incredible. That's over like 750% increase. Yeah. And this is how I'm going to finish this out. The oldest woman that we know of to ever give birth

Picture it. India. Oh, wow. 2019, age 74. No way. Yes. A 74-year-old woman from southern India gave birth for the first time to twin girls. No way. Possibly becoming the oldest woman ever to give birth. She had an in vitro fertilization. Yep. And it was...

In the United States, the oldest woman that we know of that we could find was in 1997. She was age 63. Wow. Isn't that incredible? That's amazing. Yeah, so you don't... That's what I mean. Like, no one knows these stories. We don't talk about it. We don't talk about it at all. So a little bit more on resources for menopause a little bit later. Yeah. Okay. Wonderful. So...

The next scene, we're in the waiting room of a psychiatrist's office. The ladies are dressed up to go see the psychiatrist. I got to tell you, once again, they've put Dorothy in a brown suit. What is it with that? You know, it's steady Eddie when he's brown. I know.

Stallwart. Trustworthy. Oh my God. Yeah. They've taken Blanche to see a psychiatrist because she hasn't gotten out of bed in a week. They're saying she doesn't eat or sleep. All she does is cry. And Dorothy's like, either you're going to the psychiatrist or we're going to the psychiatrist. She's driving them nuts, you know? I don't know why you all have to be here with me. I'm fine by myself. I'm here because she's having lunch at Wolfie's after. Did you see him? Total fruitcake. We're talking serial murderer. If somebody tries to murder a serial, he should see a psychiatrist. Yeah.

Don't talk for the rest of the afternoon. So a patient is seen exiting the doctor's office proper, and Sophia is just adding to the stigma of going to therapy. It's so funny. I feel like it was such a different time. I feel like my friends will talk about menopause all the time. I feel like we'll talk about going to therapy all the time. I feel like there definitely were stigmas attached to all of these.

things in the 80s in a way that there are not now. Well, it was very fresh, I'd say, in the lexicon of America, I think, in the 70s, which I think was the first time we really, in my opinion, shed a spotlight on it in a public sense. And anything new always is going to have a curve where people are afraid of it and talk about it. And, you know, of course, you know, psychology has been around for a very long time. But

Therapy, you know, someone close to me, as I'll say, years ago when I first went said to me, so are you going to see your shrink? Right. You know, and it just had such a punitiveness to it. Well, and somebody like Blanche that you know is like a conservative person, you know, there is probably that like only crazy people go to see a therapist. Blanche is feeling crazy enough going through this change that like she doesn't want to be made to feel crazier by going to get help for it. Right. As we've said, like conservative, you

Minnesotan Rose to add to the stigma. She's like, you know, psychiatrist means psych or psycho. Right.

Like, Rose, you're there for the moral support, girl. You're there to help your friend go see this doctor. Psych for psycho. Not helping. But Blanche is, you know, she's scared and she has a bit of a panter. She's like, she's right. I'm not staying. I'm not crazy. He's going to think I'm crazy because what else would be here? I'm not staying. I'm leaving. She is so good at the mad scene. Oh, yeah. She is like, she gets up to go. Everyone chases her. She's like, I won't do it. I can't. I can't. I won't. I can't. She's like, you can see that Dorothy wants to physically slap her to like...

It was. And I wish the audience gave it more of the deserved response because it's hilarious. It is really funny. It spirals, it spirals, it spirals. I'm not staying. No, I'm not crazy, but he's going to think I'm crazy because why else would I be? I'm not staying. I'm leaving. Don't touch me. You cannot make me. No, no, no. Talk to a perfect stranger who thinks I'm crazy and reveal the entire secrets of my life. I won't do it. I can't. I can't. I won't. I won't. Pull yourself together. For God's sake, you're in a psychiatrist's office.

Like, i.e., let me explain it. The one place where you don't really have to have yourself together. Exactly. And it's funny, too, that she's having that meltdown and Dorothy doesn't slap her in the same way that Bea Arthur had the instinct to be like, you know what Dorothy would do in this scene with Rose? She'd slap. Get on, lean down on top of her and slap the living shit out of her. That's what she would do. Can we take this again, Ed? Susan Harris said I could do it as many times until I really felt like we got it.

Oh, well, Patrick, the psychiatrist, Dr. Barenfeld comes out. Do you have a crush on him? No, not really. He's just kind of a stupid man. Well, and he's not a stupid actor. He's a fine actor, but we're not doing a deep dive on him. Oh, screw that guy. Screw that guy.

What, does he think he is the daughter from episode two? No, because as we've discussed, we can't do everyone. I know. But we're going to do a little mini, like super mini on that hot vet later. Oh, that vet is so hot. Right? We'll get to him. Okay. But Blanche goes into the office and we'll have that scene in a second. But I really wish, and tell me if I don't have a right to have this

opinion yeah i wish she was going to see a woman doctor oh i understand i'm not trying to tell her what to do but like yeah it's gonna quickly become clear he doesn't really understand you know well and in the 80s like again we're getting it's like once you start pulling the threads yeah susan harris is writing about something i'm sure that was very significant to her which i love and respect totally you know you know just like chronic fatigue syndrome and all of that and that's

to be applauded, right? But it just goes to show you from what I'm hearing in the script, even Susan Harris, who wrote it, and we as women were not educated, woefully educated about what it is and what it isn't. And again, what's our podcast name? We'll get there. So before we get the scene with Blanche and the doctor, we're with Sophie. We're still like the friends are going to wait for Blanche. So Rose and Sophia and Dorothy are still in the waiting room. And so

And Sophia looks at this one guy sitting by himself and he does look like he's muttering to himself. Sophia calls him a banana boat. Yeah. She said fruitcake, banana boat. I mean, it's just one. And I was like, excuse me, the fruitcake is a slur reserved specifically for the homosexuals. That's a gay slander. Thank you. I said good day, sir. Yeah. How dare you? How dare you, ma'am? Trying to use that on somebody else. But, you know, Dorothy's like, he's not, he's not talking to himself. He has dentures. They're slipping. Sophia's like, yeah, right. Yeah. And she just goes to ask him. She just goes up

Excuse me, sir. Are you talking to yourself? Of course not. Fram Walk is talking to me. He's my Martian friend who landed a spacecraft in my yard. See you at Wolfie's.

So look on Dorothy's face as Sophia gets up to walk over to this man. She's not phoning it in. Bea Arthur came to act today. Oh, yeah. You know? And then this patient with this great low voice. And, Patrick, I have a Cape Cod accent straight out of Jaws. Ha ha ha!

Died in his spacecraft in my yard. I was like, all I hear. That is very Kennedy Hyannisport. You're right. It's so Cape Cod. It's so all those guys on their boats trying to catch the shark. Oh, God. It's so good. No, here's my question. Yeah. What if this guy's telling the truth? What would happen if a Martian landed in your yard? You're the only person who knows. Of course, you're going to go to a psychiatrist. Well, also, like, can we just be curious? I would have a thousand questions for this guy. How do you know? I know. I know.

Tell me more about this. Tell me more. Tell me more about this Fran walk. Listen, live your lives curiously. That's all I'm going to say. Shall we go into the interior of the psychiatrist's office? So we're in the psychiatrist's office. My whole thing is what I get from this scene is that she's trying to talk about what menopause means to her. And he's trying to validate her reality.

by invalidating her feelings, which makes me crazy. Interesting that you got that from it. Because what I got from it, we're going to take some time here. Yeah, let's do it. What I got is twice he's telling her in different ways all that...

Yes. Yes.

she's so afraid her womanhood is going away. So in context, if I was going to use my context clues, like in context, you know, I know why that's there. However, I do take issue with the language of that's all it means. That's all it is. Yeah. And this is my point that I'm going to say to you. I encourage you all to get Tamsyn Fadal's book. Oh, Tamsyn Fadal, wonderful journalist on the Broadway channel. Yeah. Worked with Broadway.com for years.

She's written a book called How to Menopause. You can go find it at a website, howtomenopause.com. Yep. Go to her Instagram page. Follow her there. She has all kinds of reels and videos up. She's done a documentary that's incredible about this very topic. So we're the same age. And Patrick, you'll love this. She's a New England gal. She's from Massachusetts. Oh, wow. Yep.

She will help you in this book from research she's done with lots of experts identify 34 symptoms of menopause. 34. Wow. You heard me correctly. Navigating the health care system, a love life, your career while balancing demands of menopause. Like all of this stuff.

stuff that is far more than just about not being able to have children. Yes. And I feel like, and tell me if I'm crazy, all Blanche... Yes. 100%. Yes, yes. Thank you for yes-anding me. All Blanche wants to be told is that she's still attractive. That's

All Blanche wants to be told, right? I think that it's more layered than that for her. I don't mean it's that simple for her. But I think what is happening is that Blanche just needs to be reassured that she still has her hotness. And while that might be a thing that Blanche as a person might need to work on, and the doctor does say, he says yes, but...

So he's saying, you feel unattractive, but you just need to look for the other ways that you make people happy. And what he's not saying to her is, you're gorgeous, you're beautiful. I honestly feel like Rue McClanahan has never looked more beautiful than she does in this episode. And it's like, to know Blanche from how we know her, from that narcissism of like, she begins with her beauty and everything sort of comes out from that. And in the end, that's what saves her here, is that she is made to feel beautiful again. And the doctor is just like,

I understand that he's trying to make her understand that it's not as big of a deal as she thinks or whatever. But, like, I feel like what he's not reading is that when she's saying, I'm not a woman anymore, what she's saying is I'm not beautiful anymore. Right. Well, yes, what you're saying, but it's a little bit more than that. Because she talks about her Aunt Lynette going crazy. Yes. And she is afraid of that. Yes. She's afraid of... She doesn't understand why...

why she's feeling this way, for one thing. And that's where the education I'm talking about comes in. To your point, I think we, all us and Cheesecakes, we have the benefit of knowing who Blanche is and he's just meeting her for the first time. So I do think it's a big ask for him to figure out her narcissism, her need for that, right? But we do know because of what happens with the vet, how much she is craving that. And she starts to tell him that here, right?

Right.

All right, it is not just menopause. It's what it represents to you, growing older. Yes. And growing older represents a loss of attractiveness. Yes. Is that all there is to you, sex appeal? Yes.

You just show me a woman in her 50s who can do that, Jennifer Simard. I'm sorry. One thousand percent. One thousand percent. And I love Joan Collins, who I had the pleasure of working with. Don't tell me, Joan Collins, that woman belongs in a wax museum. I saw a picture of her recently. I'm like, Jesus Christ.

She looks amazing. I know. There are some people who just like, I remember like Mrs. Brady looked like Mrs. Brady from the 70s until her last dying breath. Yeah, right. You know? And to your question, I do think the doctor does a little bit better job with his next line. Yeah. Where he says, all right, it's not just menopause. It's what it represents to you growing older. Exactly. But I have to say that Rue McClanahan does such a good job with this monologue at the end about her mom. Oh, looking in the mirror, seeing her mother's face. Yeah.

You know, sometimes I look in the mirror and I see my mother's face looking back at me. Not all the time, just every now and then when the light's too bright or it's too early in the morning or late at night or I look real fast. There it is, my mother's face. Scares me to death. It just scares me to death. I just get so depressed I don't want to get out of bed in the morning. I don't want to get out of bed ever again.

I thought her delivery was perfection. I thought it was moving. And I have to say, I have always thought about this scene kind of forgetting that it was in this episode, to be honest with you. I just knew that it was there in my canon. That happens with this show. Yeah. And since rewatching it, I was like, oh, my God, it was this scene. It was this show. Because the older I get, I do look in the mirror and every now and then, not as much as I want to.

frankly, I'll see my mother's face. And since she's deceased, I find it very poetic and it fills me with a melancholic joy. Totally. You know what I mean? I mean, I have moments of that where I look so much like my mother. Oh, how beautiful. It's wild. I will look at a picture of myself and I'm like, my mother looks great in this picture. Like, I look just like my mom. My mom looks skinny today. Mom, your beard is just really on point today. Mom, you're fucking hot. Damn.

Damn. The other day. Can I tell you something horrible? Yes. That I can't believe I'm going to admit into a microphone. Do it. I was getting ready to like leave in the morning and I was getting dressed. I did my hair and I was getting ready to go. I like get ready now in a way I never used to. Okay. And I was ready and I did like one last look in the mirror and I looked at myself and I went, yes, daddy. And I said those words out loud. I couldn't breathe.

believe I would it is at the same time hilarious and humiliating that I'm admitting this and that it actually happened I think you should do that every day yes daddy is it Jennifer Lewis I'll have to go look it up but she says she every day she goes into the mirror brushes her teeth looks at herself and says you are bad if I might be paraphrasing but whatever is gonna get it done for you to feel great about yourself just do it

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So next scene, we're in the kitchen and this is a long scene. We stipulate. This is going to be a long episode. For sure. It's too good. It's too good. And this is really getting into having a period and then not having a period means to these women. Yeah. How they learned or didn't learn that it was going to happen. Like, it's really, to your point from earlier, like, Susan Harris was really telling us everything from all these vast different experiences that women experience.

had. And it's so important. So the first thing we learn is that like Rose and Dorothy are walking into the kitchen from the garage where they've called a vet to try to like have this vet get the animals to fuck, essentially. Yeah. You know, and they're coming into the kitchen and they sit down and Blanche is sitting at the table, depressed, but looking absolutely gorgeous. Right. In her signature floral robe. Yes. But notably, she's in her pajamas and they're all dressed for the day. So she's still depressed.

Right. And she's saying, like, I was in my bed eating. And if I don't get up and walk around, I'll become as big as a hippo. She's just like, she's really feeling her feels from discovering that she's going into menopause. Right. And Sophia says, this is all because you're going through the change. And Blanche says, God, I hate that expression. Dorothy's like, what is the big deal, Blanche? It's nothing. Look at it this way. You don't get cramps once a month. You don't go on eating binges once a month. You don't get crazy once a month. You just grow a beard.

Don't listen to her, Blanche. You grow a beard, Dorothy. Believe me, I woke up one morning, I looked like Arafat. Oh, God.

What's going on here is that like Dorothy is saying going into menopause was a blessing for her. Yeah. That not having to deal with it anymore was the gift. It's not one size fits all. It's not, you know, and PMS, premenstrual syndrome, that varies from woman to woman. Yeah. And Rose is another one who's saying like she never had PMS. For her, it was like she basically had hot flashes and that was it. Like menopause wasn't that bad for her. Right, right, right. You know, and everyone's just kind of trying to reassure Blanche that it really isn't that bad.

I do love this speech that we have coming up. Yeah. Blanche is talking about her childhood and how she kept hearing about the curse. Oh, I was absolutely terrified. The year of my 13th birthday, I slept with the lights on all year. Oh, I was sure there was a witch behind every wisteria. But...

The year went by and no curse. And finally, when I was 15, Mama took me to the doctor because I still didn't have the curse. And he said, Blanche, do you mean to tell me you still don't have your period? And I said, well, of course I have my period, you fool. I'm not a child. I've had my period almost two years. It's the curse I don't have. This speech happens because...

Rose explains no one ever told her she was going to get her period. It just happened, right? And that was, like, my big fear for Daisy. Having, like, two gay men as her dads who never had periods and were never, like, married to people who had periods. Right. How were we going to learn to talk to her about it? When were we going to talk to her about it? And we had to do a lot of learning about, like, the last thing. Like, all I could imagine was that opening scene from Carrie where they're throwing pads at her in the shower. And I'm like...

And she doesn't know what's happening. And, you know, that was my big fear for Daisy. So, you know, obviously, Steve and I have already started talking to Daisy about this stuff. Yeah, yeah. And then Blanche is saying all of her growing up years, she heard about the curse. And I'm like, well, that's my other fear is that talking to her about it in the wrong way and scaring her or confusing her as happens to Blanche. Well, a few things about that. Number one, when I started my period, my mom got me a red rose and we pressed it in a book. Oh, my God. Isn't that beautiful?

I never would want to overstep, but I'm always offering my services if you need me to talk to her. Thank you. And the last thing I'll say is they do take this serious subject in classic Golden Girls. They do make it really funny because Rue McClanahan, God damn it. And this is great because it really tells you about what kind of person Blanche was when she was a 13-year-old. I just love knowing that Blanche got her period, didn't necessarily...

Yeah.

Right. You know? Well, I know because you're a caring, thoughtful parent, you are worried about it. But listen, your daughter could be just like Sophia, who was just fine. I mean, Sophia's story is the most horrifying because she says nobody ever told her about her period and nobody ever told her about menopause. She just was like... I got it. Nobody told me. I didn't get it. Nobody told me. I figured this is life. I went back to my meatballs. Like...

You know what? When Daisy gets her period, we'll get her meatballs. We'll get her meatballs. Totally. But like, I love Sophia's take on it, but it's like, we know now, like we know, or at least we can be educated on like how to talk to our kids and prepare them so it's not scary and traumatizing. Blanche, through all of this, is just,

sad and depressed. And Dorothy is saying she'll cheer up when she realizes it makes no difference at all in her life. Dorothy had said earlier in the episode, it wasn't hard for me to go through menopause because I didn't connect it to my sexuality. It was just a thing that made my life better because I wasn't in pain once a month. And you know,

these are all very different women who handle things in very, like Dorothy is the daughter of the woman who never knew that she was going to get a period and never knew that it was going to stop and just went back to her meatballs. So of course, Dorothy, they handle it matter of factly. Right. Blanche is just a more emotional being. Right. But just in the nick of time, we have a knock, knock, knock on the door. It's Dr. Park, the veterinarian. Remember, he was there to like get the minks to have sex so the girls could make the money on this mink mating business that they're trying to get on the ground. So before we bring it back around to this

Thinly veiled metaphor. Let me just tell you one very admirable thing about the actor playing Dr. Park. He's very handsome. Well, besides that, then two very admirable things. Yes, he's very handsome. And that goes directly to virtue. We all know that. But his name is Vince Cannon.

And I love this. He was very active in the Rosa Parks Foundation, Cher, the Michael Jordan Foundation, Martin Luther King Jr. slash Drew Medical Center, the Venice Family Clinic and the Magic Johnson Foundation. He was also a founding member of Artists for a Free South Africa. Amazing. So props to Vince Cannon. Thank you for all of your work. Yeah. Thanks for that face too. And thanks for being so fucking hot. Yeah.

How is it? Damn daddy. What did you say in the mirror? I said damn daddy. Damn daddy. I said damn daddy. Damn daddy. I said damn daddy to myself. I know, but I'm saying it about Vince Cannon. Damn daddy. Damn daddy merch coming your way. You better do all those good deeds. Damn daddy. You can get it for that alone. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God.

Blanche has previously said nothing will ever cheer her up. But as soon as this handsome veterinarian is in the kitchen, she's back to her old self. Oh, yeah. She jumps out of her seat. She runs right over to him. Dr. Parks, I don't believe you've met Blanche. No, he has not because I certainly would remember it if he had. Well, I want to thank you so much for coming. A man as brilliant as you must be terribly busy. Thank you.

The change of life didn't change her life. But we learned, the vet is here to tell us that the problem with the minks is that they're too old to breed. And we now understand why this insane bee storyline has been... I literally smacked myself in the forehead. I was like, oh. You know, we should do a poll. Is it worth it? I don't know. I'm not sure. That's a long walk for a small drink of water.

What was the conversation between the women? What should we do to earn some extra money? Let's breed minks. Let's breed them. You know? You know what? I'm a substitute teacher in Miami. I know. I need a hobby. Look at a mink. I'm going to make a little extra cash. Maybe I could waitress at the Rusty Anger. Nah. Nah.

You know what? Minx. M-I-N-X. That's the name of their business. It's on the business card. M-I-N-X. Minx for Minx. Minx. Oh, my God. I'm dead. Wait, merch. Minx for Minx. Minx for Minx. Minx for Minx.

So, like, everyone is very interested in, like, wait, the minks are too old to breed. But he makes the point, the minks are too old to breed, which makes them, quote, useless, right? And that's been Blanche's whole thing the whole time. She's no longer a woman. She's no longer of, like, childbearing age. So she is useless. But the man is here to save the day. And man's playing to everybody. That's right. But that doesn't happen to humans. Right. She says, you mean you can be too old? Right. And he says...

Rodents can be, not humans. Is that a theory or is that based on personal experience? Both. Dr. Parks, there's a lizard out on the lanai that's looking awful peaked lately. I wonder if you'd mind taking a look. Not at all. Oh, just can't sleep at all. You know, I'm such a lover of animals.

She could be in a coma. Put a man within five miles, she'd roll over and shave her legs. Is that a theory or is that based on personal experience?

Cheesecakes. The way she, the mouth acting that's happening on this one. Personal experience. The mouth acting. It's so good. It's not me, it's her. No, it's great. It's great. Then Blanche coaxes him out to the lanai so that they can be alone. There's an iguana out there. She wants him to check on him. I believe it's a lizard, which I'm guessing is his penis. But anyway. Anyway.

There's a lizard out on the line that's looking awfully peaked lately. I wonder if you'd mind taking a look. That is hilarious. Well, then my favorite line of the episode is Dorothy standing. She shouts it. She goes, she could be in a coma. Put a man within five miles and she'd shave her legs. My favorite line of the episode. Hiya, Charlie.

Hi, Charlie. All right. So, final scene. We're back in the garage. Once again, the women are shocked that somebody has taken advantage of them. You know what I mean? That some mink dealer found these, like, four old women who had no idea what they were doing. I like, like...

That's what we should look up. I know. The mink dealership in Miami. Honestly, who's in like the underground mink trade that saw these four later in life women that were like, sure, ladies, we can definitely sell you some minks for your new mink business. Damn it. Dot is calculating frantically. I know.

She's like, well, we wound up spending $678 in the mink business. Listen, I calculated that to 2024 money. They lost $1,927. That's a lot of money if you're on a fixed income. Listen, it is. Blanche enters. She's coming in from her date with the vet. She's looking gorgeous in her blue dress. She's in a great mood. And Dorothy is asking, how did it go? And, you know, she's back with all of her, like, fabulous Blanche narcissism. Hello there. Hello.

Hi, how did it go? Is your lizard still alive? He just loved me. But then, of course, he would. I'm sophisticated, worldly, glamorous. But, you know, I don't know. Maybe he's just too down-to-earth and nice and decent for me. You know what I mean? Yes.

But she wants to make the point that like she's gotten her groove back, but it wasn't because of the hot doctor. Right. It was because of you, girl. Honey, you just needed the confidence to know that you're still attractive. And Dr. Parks helped do that. Oh, no. Well, maybe a little. But I know that beauty like mine cannot fade overnight. So he didn't really have that much to do with it. It was you girls. Yes. You just let me carry on and be crazy. And you were right there through it all. We live here.

You were caring and supportive, and I want to thank you for it. I'm really lucky to have friends like you. But Dorothy says the crux of the whole thing. She says you just needed to get your confidence back that you're still attractive. Like, that's what it comes down to for Blanche. Also, I love her A's, Blanche. I know we talk about her E-R's a lot, but she's like, you were caring and supportive, and I want to thank you for it. For it. For it.

Right? Totally. Caring and supportive. You were caring and supportive. I want to thank you for it. Thank you for it. Like I said earlier, she's like, I'm lucky to have friends like you. Oh, the little rats are still here. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Hasn't noticed. It's just this giant rolling rack. Full of live animals. Live animals. In the center of the garage. What would you look at there? Huh?

Well, they've been nice and caring, too. Well, they say that the animal people are coming to get them tomorrow, but Rose has called it off. She does say this thing about how, like, they're retired. They served man. Now we serve them. I like that thinking. I do, too. I do, too. She's named them Fluffy, Muffy, Buffy, and Joanne. And I said, Patrick, is that some sort of shade and a lane stretch from Susan Harris?

Oh, it could be. Oh, I love it. Whether or not there's Elaine's strict shade or not, in the deciding to let the mink stay, I do love this moment because Rose asks, Are you saying that just because they're too old to breed, they're useless? That they're no good for anything anymore? The mink stay.

Right. I mean, that's the crux of the whole episode, right? That's the whole thing. That's the whole enchilada, as they say. Because my next thought is like, y'all are going to now raise minks for the next, what, six years? Like, I love that these are episodic and we never have to deal with the minks ever again. But in the life of the Golden Girls, these minks are now going to live in the garage as like pets.

for the next however long mink's life. It just makes no sense. Like, they would have a happier life if you let the animal people come and take them away. I mean, like, who's cleaning their poop? Not Blanche. It's Rose, for sure. For sure they're making Rose do it. Yeah, she's talking to them. Remember, she thinks she can communicate with animals. That's right. And she just loves the shit. She's like, this reminds me of cleaning up the chicken coops in the farm. Right?

As they're going back into the house, they're like, wait a second. Oh. Two of them are actually mating. That's right. And so they're like, Dorothy's like, no. She's like so incredulous. They brought all kinds of honey just like me to the bottom of that school gymnasium. No, I'm kidding.

the hot wax the hot wax and everything but they're like no they really aren't it's really them and Dorothy like takes a peek and she goes oh they certainly are but don't count your money yet those are the two males how do you feel about that Patrick so listen I love it so much I decided we gotta end this episode with a little deep dive into homosexuality in the animal kingdom love it and I look

it up to see if this was a real thing. It turns out, based on an article from the National Wildlife Foundation in July 2023, not only is it a thing, it is much more common than previously thought. Researchers have observed very gay behavior in more than 1,500 species. Now, here are just a few examples that have been recently observed by scientists. Female bonobos chimpanzees will rub genitals together, which scientists say reduces tension and helps them share. Scissoring. They're scissoring.

Okay. Scissoring chimps helps them share. That's right. Bone-in flying foxes, a type of bat, curl up in same-sex clusters to keep warm during the mating season, and oral genital stimulation is common in the male clusters. Honestly, we can cut everything else out of this episode. Oh, I'm not done. I'm so happy. Go ahead. Male zebra finches form lifelong, socially monogamous relationships that include courtship dances and sex, and they don't break up when females become available. Okay. Courtship dances and sex, girl.

Female Laysian albatrosses in Hawaii share nests, mount each other sexually, and raise their young together. And the blanchiest of them all, Paul Vassie, a sex researcher at Canada's University at Lethbridge, has spent three decades studying female Japanese macaws, or snow monkeys, who often...

These are the female macaws. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Instead, he found a more straightforward explanation. They're getting immediate sexual gratification, Vassie says, which seems to be all they are looking for. Amen. Get it. Get it. Get it, macaws. Get it, macaws.

I also read somewhere that dolphins, when an older male dolphin comes into a group of younger dolphins, he might flip on his side to allow the younger male to mount him. To let the young males worship him. Do you want to hear my dolphin impression? Sure. Well, you know why? In Death Becomes Her, you know that red gown I wear? Everyone's like, smart. How are you not falling out of that? Well, they have this little tab that they call a flipper. Oh, yeah.

hooks from the dress behind the bustier that I wear underneath it. I have a corset. To which the ladies stay in. You know, like an 1890s corset. And then I have the dress, which is corseted above that. So on the dress is a thing called the flipper. Oh my God. I have a nine minute change to go from hospital Helen into the red gown. And so they say to me, Jen, is the flipper in? And I always answer like this.

And you recognized it immediately. Oh, it was perfect. Okay, thanks. Oh my God. Okay. Anyway, get it, macaws. These lesbian macaws, I'm obsessed. Cheesecakes, don't go away. When we come back, I'm doing my full deep dive on Mannequin. I'm so, so, so excited. One of my favorite movies from when I was a kid. It is fascinating and fun and I'm obsessed. Great. Stay tuned. Back after these messages. Back after these messages.

All right, Cheezies. It's Jennifer Simard. Hi, Cheezies. Hi, Cheezies. Welcome back. I'm going to give you my deep dive on Mannequin. I'm so excited to talk about this movie. Me too. This is in my childhood memory bank, you know? Yeah, yeah. Little Andrew McCarthy, right? Oh, yes. Oh, dreamy. I probably see this movie 40 times. Yay! So we're talking about Mannequin, obviously, because it was Estelle Getty's first major film role ever. She'd been in other movies, but this was her first, like,

big role in a movie. Yeah, that's a big deal. And even that, she's not in it that much, but like it's still like her big... It's a big deal. Yeah. And it comes between the first and second seasons of The Golden Girls. Oh, perfect. Yeah. So Mannequin, for anybody who doesn't know, it's a 1987 romantic comedy which centers around a chronically underemployed artist named Jonathan Switzer who lands a job as a department store window dresser and the mannequin he created, which becomes inhabited by the spirit of a woman from ancient Egypt who can only come alive for him.

The film was co-written and directed by Michael Gottlieb. This is by far the most famous thing he ever did in his career. He says he was inspired to write the script in 1982 after walking past the window display of the Bergdorf Goodman department store on Fifth Avenue and swearing he saw a mannequin move out of the corner of his eye. Okay, that's cool because I don't know if any Cheezys can relate to this, but as a little girl, I really was fascinated by the store window mannequins. Oh, yes. And I mean, they're just

captivating and it does capture your imagination yeah and like something about kim cattrall's mannequin here she posed for six weeks to make this mannequin the mannequins of her and i did a rewatch of the movie to get ready for it and i'll talk about it in a minute it is really good and the mannequins that look like her because they're like sometimes it is a mannequin looks so much like her it's

unbelievable it's also just like a great idea for a movie and like like I said I did a rewatch I got about four in the morning to watch this movie before like doing the research on it it's so perfectly 80s Belinda Carlisle sings the theme song for the opening credits and the opening credits are all in cartoon the

movie has all of those amazing iconic 80 like musical montages where they're like dancing through the store and they're like playing dress up and falling in love always a music montage always a music montage the hair is huge the clothes are ridiculous and the official theme song for the movie is starships nothing's gonna stop us now oh you love

that song. I love it. And it was nominated for an Academy Award for this. I remember. Yeah, I love that song. The critics hated the movie. We'll get there at the end. But the song was nominated for an Academy Award. Okay. Isn't that great? Before we talk about the cast, I want to talk about a central character that is not a person. And that is the location where 90% of the film is shot. So it is the absolute

stunning department store john wanamaker's in downtown philadelphia have you ever been into that store no it's still in operation it's a macy's now but it's still operation still looks exactly the same at the time filming began there in march of 1986 the store as john wanamaker was still in use as john wanamaker before it became a macy's like 10 years later okay it's a perfectly preserved building at the time it was over 100 years old it has a stunning seven-story atrium so like in the

middle area of the building the whole building is just the store it's this like seven story atrium and they use it to full effect in the movie shooting was primarily done at night because the store was still in use so the shooting usually started at about 9 p.m. so there's also

Who didn't have this fantasy of just spending the night in a department store? This is literally my next note. I was saying there's this childlike adventure quality of this movie, which is like being in a place you're not supposed to be late at night, playing dress up. Hiding in the clothes, you know, like circular clothes. I always had that fantasy of hiding. And then when security goes, and now, of course, we live in a world with cameras. It would never happen. Did you ever see the movie based on the book from the mixed up files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler?

It's like from the same time. It's about these two kids who hide in the Met overnight and they like live in the Met. Like, and it's just like they're like these like young kids in the 70s in New York. That's so cool. But that's one of the things about Mannequin to me that made it so special is that it has that magical Never Neverland feel to it. Yeah, that's a great way to put it. You know, so let's talk about the cast. So Andrew McCarthy was cast as Jonathan, the lead of the film. So we, of course, remember Andrew McCarthy as a member of the Bratz.

But in 1986, when Mannequin started filming, he was only 24 and still, like, a pretty fresh face. The only two films he was really known for at the time were the ensemble drama St. Elmo's Fire and Pretty in Pink, which had just come out. So he was new, but, like, he was doing well, but he wasn't considered a box office draw. Right.

really. But the executive producer of the film, a guy named Joseph Farrell, thought that he had the innocent quality of an outsider looking in and that he was a good embodiment of, quote, an innocent guy trying to do the best he can. And importantly, this producer, who I'm going to talk about more in a bit, determined that McCarthy had the strong appeal to the demographic of young women that he designated as the film's target market.

That like he was really marketing this film towards like young women. And he thought that Andrew McCarthy just sort of had that thing that they would be drawn to. And that's the biggest reason Andrew McCarthy got the role. 30-year-old Kim Cattrall was cast as Emmy the mannequin. Kim Cattrall would obviously achieve worldwide stardom when she was cast as Samantha Jones in Sex and the City in 1998. But before that, Mannequin, which came out 12 years before the first season of Sex and the City, was pre-released.

probably the thing that she would become best known for. She had a really interesting life and career before booking Mannequin. She was born in England, but then as a baby moved to Canada. At age 16, she moved to New York City by herself to pursue acting professionally. I didn't know she was

born in England. Neither did I until we did this research. She went to AMDA in New York City, which is like a certificate program. Back then it was a certificate program. It was like an 18 month thing. And that stands for American Musical and Dramatic Academy. And get this. When she graduated, she was offered a five year contract with Universal Studios and became one of the last people to participate in the studio contract player system. You think of that from like old Hollywood. Yeah.

think of it for like Kim Cattrall. No, you don't. Who's that? The actress who played Kirsten. Didn't she have a contract? Yes. Yeah, you're right. And you don't think of it as a 70s, 80s thing. No. You think of it as a 1940s thing. Yeah. And she eventually gets bought out of all of her contracts by various movie productions. She wouldn't really become a household name until Sex and the City, but she did pretty well for herself in the 80s and the 90s. She did

a lot of theater both in London and in New York, and her feature film credits include memorable roles in Porky's, Police Academy, and Big Trouble in Little China. And it was apparently the role in Big Trouble in Little China that led to her being cast in Mannequin. Mannequin was a big break for her. Not only was it her first starring role in a film, but Mannequin is the rare Hollywood romance where the lead actress is older than the lead actor.

Kim Cattrall was 30 and Andrew McCarthy was 24. Yeah, well, we love that. We love it. She looks incredible. There's like a scene in one of the montage sequences where she like flashes him and she's wearing a bikini and you just cannot believe how hot she is. Yeah, she's gorgeous. Outrageous. Is it problematic that a blonde white woman is

playing a citizen of ancient Egypt. I have not seen it for years. And when you described it, I went, well, the first question I'm going to ask him is that. Because the movie opens in ancient Egypt and it's her as a citizen trying to like outrun her mother who's trying to like marry her off to some like camel dung salesman. Like, yes, that's the problem. I mean, it's hugely problematic. Huge. It would never happen today. And they never address it in the movie at all.

all. And like the actress who plays her mother in the opening does not look like a blonde white woman. I'm sorry. It's very problematic. I know that we have to say then we love parts of Mannequin, but this is what I mean. Like how many 70s and 80s movies are unwatchable now? It stands out so much. There's still there's so many bullshit things even much more recent than that, you know? So next up is Meshack Taylor as the very gay and flamboyant window dresser Hollywood. Of course, we all know Meshack Taylor as

Anthony Bouvier from his nine seasons on Designing Women, but he also has a really interesting backstory. He was born in 1947 in Boston. I always think of him for being from the South because of Designing Women. Yes, I hear you. So learning that he was born in Boston was funny. He moved to Los Angeles in the 70s where he lived in his car while going on auditions. And he did really well. He has...

over 30 IMDb credits between 1978 and 1985 when he appears as the cop in the pilot episode of The Golden Girls. And then, including this leading role in Mannequin, he has at least another 30 IMDb credits before his 152 episodes of Designing Women starting in 1986. I mean, nine seasons. What a dream. I mean...

Something interesting to note about his work on Designing Women is that his character was originally only supposed to be in one episode in the first season. But the producers said that they loved the energy between him and the women so much and they wanted to expand on that relationship and explore that relationship. So they just kept him around and made him a regular player. No, and he had such a warmth.

about him, you know? Like, if you didn't like him, there was something wrong with you. Yeah, 100%. He was so beloved on the show that he lasted two seasons longer than two of the show's original female stars, Delta Burke and Jean Smart. And he was nominated for an Emmy for his work in 1989. But getting back to his work as the character Hollywood in Mannequin, so much of what I read about this talked about how for a straight Black man in 1986 to take on the role of this

over-the-top, flamboyantly and unapologetically out gay character was a really big risk for him. But his commitment to the role and what people saw as real gay authenticity endeared the character to audiences to the point that modern film critics looking back on the film refer to Hollywood as the film's moral center. Interesting. Watching it

back it was I forgot that the character was openly gay that like I thought it was coded it's not he's got a boyfriend the whole thing and Andrew McCarthy's character sticks up for him all the time there's this bigoted cop character who makes fun of Hollywood a lot and Andrew McCarthy openly calls him a bigot and like talks about how awful it must be to have to be a bigot when you could just not

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's very amazing to see the friendship between Andrew McCarthy's character and Hollywood because Andrew McCarthy's character loves him. He's not afraid to be friends. He's not afraid to show affection for this like flamboyantly gay man. And like, it must have been one of the things as a very young gay kid watching this that I was drawn to. Yeah. And I'll talk more about that at the end because there's a whole piece that was written about this recently. Okay. That's really interesting. It's worth mentioning that Meshack Taylor is the only actor from the original film to come back for the sequel, Mannequin.

On the move. And of course, we get to talk about Estelle Getty. So Estelle Getty played Claire Trimkin, the owner of the department store where all of the shenanigans take place. Also from Egypt. Also from Egypt. Sorry.

There's no question that Estelle's popularity from the first season of The Golden Girls is largely responsible for her landing this role. Like we said, it was her first ever lead role in a film. And to support this, we get to talk about her Q score again. It's our favorite subject of conversation. As we've said a thousand times, the Q score measures an actor's recognizability and how well-liked they are by the public. And at the time of the filming of Mannequin, Estelle's Q score was off the charts. It was off the charts! Off the charts!

No, you're correct. Of all the people measured in 1986, Estelle was ranked number seven. And they don't just rank actors. That's incredible. They rank like dignitaries and politicians. They rank every known person. What world dignitaries was she ahead of? I know, I know, I know. That's what I want to know. But her score was 1%.

way higher than her three much bigger named co-stars on the Golden Girls. And her score continued to climb every year. And just for reference, by 1991, she was in a three-way tie for third place with Bill Cosby and Whoopi Goldberg. And these were people who had been around for a really long time. And Estelle was basically like in her first year of being famous. And guess who was number one that year? Who? Jaleel White. Oh my. Urkel from Family Matters. Okay. Was the most liked and most recognized public figure in America. Yeah.

Estelle Getty is not much of a presence in the film, but at the same time, she's like so perfect. And every time she's on screen, she's like not even acting. She's just being Estelle Getty, but you're just so happy to see her. There's like just such a warmth to her. I was looking for anything I could find on her or Meshack Taylor talking about like working with each other again on this movie set, having just been in like the pilot episode of The Cold and the Cold together, but I couldn't find anything or anywhere where they ever talked about it. But the fact that Estelle Getty's Q score is a major part of why she was cast as

as a lead in this movie is a good transition to our next topic of conversation, which is the fact that the studio brought on a man named Joe Farrell, who I talked a little bit about early on as an executive producer for the movie. So Joseph Farrell was a market research guru, and he was the first person to apply market research technique to Hollywood movies.

Oh. Now, Mannequin wasn't the first that it was applied to, but he was the first person to do it for other movies. Okay. And market research, for anybody who doesn't know, is the practice of surveying the public to determine a product's market potential. So they do this for, like, household products or, like, food products all the time. Like, there'll be a sample, you'll give feedback, you make changes. Joe Farrell was the first person to apply it to movies. He literally invented the practice of, before a film was released, doing test screening, tracking, and...

and trailer and TV spot testing in order to see how audience responded to movies. Well, that's huge. And that's something I didn't know because you always just think, you know, what does this test audience think? And how many times have we heard that they've changed endings based on it? So this fella invented that? He invented it for movies. For movies. So that's where I...

I think of it. I think of it for film. Totally. And like what would happen was Joe Farrell would then take those findings to the studios and with his suggestions for how they should change the movie in whatever way to have the highest chance of the film becoming a hit. And one of the most famous examples of Joe Farrell's market research dramatically altering a film is

is Fatal Attraction. Yeah. Where the original ending had Glenn Close's character dying by suicide and then framing the Michael Douglas character for her murder. But test audiences hated that and they wanted like a showdown between the two characters. And so the ending was changed to that dramatic bloody bathroom scene between the two characters that is maybe one of the most memorable endings of any thriller. It's funny. It's like a market research thing that people, and it's honestly one of the movies people remember from the 80s. I think they might have done that with Death Becomes Her too. Is that right? I have to go look it up.

Oh, interesting. But I know that there was a different ending in the works that was not what it ended up being. So whereas Joe Farrell had always been merely a consultant on films, which meant that the studios could take or leave his suggestions, on Mannequin, he was the executive producer, which meant that he had final say over everything, every decision that was made from casting to final cut to everything. And so it's been said that at Farrell's insistence, each aspect of

So Farrell himself says he produced the film to be, quote, He said, He says it works for a certain type of person, young, frivolous,

female optimistic about life which is a big part of the population he said every actor in the movie had been successful in a youth movie before kids like familiarity they like what they like and all of Farrell's decisions paid off because Mannequin was released on February 13th 1987 it debuted at number 3 at the US box office behind Platoon and Outrageous Fortune it had a budget of 7.9 million dollars and took in

$41 million in the United States and Canada alone. To convert $41 million from 1987 money to today money is $111 million. Hey. Like, the movie was very, very financially successful. So you're saying he had control over everything? Everything. Okay, I will say this. If that was his vision, then that's a good thing. The issue I have with a lot of these studio audiences changing endings is that

Sometimes someone's creative vision really needs to be preserved, especially if it's a strong vision. And sometimes that's what we sometimes, sometimes we call, oh, that person's a creative genius. And I'm sorry, maybe the majority of the studio audience is not...

seeing this person's vision. Maybe they're geniuses in other ways in their life, but maybe that's really interfering with this individual's vision. And that bothers me a little. There was more on that, which was just kind of like the thing about doing the test screenings and doing all of the market research and all of that stuff is that it is designed for mass appeal and not necessarily for like artistic purity. Yeah. And so it's kind of like you're making a thing that you're pretty sure is going to make money, but it isn't going to be like a piece.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Let's talk about artistic purity again. Exactly. Exactly. It has an approval rating of 20% on Rotten Tomatoes. Janet Maslin of the New York Times found the movie to be both racist and homophobic. Roger Ebert called the movie worse than bad. It's, quote, dead. The Washington Post said, quote, this is a movie made by, for, and about dummies.

It's the lowest common denominator. Listen, I didn't say it. I know. And the thing that's most shocking to me is that Mannequin is considered a bad movie because I'm like, am I crazy or is it like a staple of our childhoods? No, I saw it once. Yeah, yeah. And I don't really remember it. I mean, I remember watching it a

Okay. It was on all the time. Right. So I watched it a lot. I loved the magic. Like I was saying before, there's a magical childlike quality. But I wrote here, maybe I'm not alone here. Our wonderful researcher, Jess, found this great article by a man named James Kenny called, If Mannequin is so bad, why have you seen it so many times? My spirited defense of a humpback classic. And I just want to read a little bit of this article. So he writes...

To shoot a film about not just abiding, but embracing what would be considered a, quote, alternative lifestyle. What better location than Philadelphia, the city of brotherly love, where the Declaration of Independence, a document about escaping unjust oppression, was signed.

Well, before you get too smug, nodding sagely, ah yes, he's speaking of Jonathan Demme's 1992 classic film Philadelphia, the first Hollywood film to address the AIDS crisis and its effect especially on the gay community, you are mistaken. A film beat Demme to the punch in its call for

empathy, for understanding, for supporting lifestyles that hurt no one else, a film encouraging every viewer to be themselves, not caring what anyone else thinks, and its makers chose the symbolically potent city of Philadelphia as its location. Yes, that film is the 1987 screwball comedy Mannequin, starring Andrew McCarthy and Kim Cattrall, which most of you insist is no good, yet you've seen it 13 times.

And I was like, you know, I was trying to understand why I loved this movie so much. And I was saying that just hit the nail on the head for me, because even if I was too young when I first saw it to really understand it, the movie is about misfits, right? The misunderstood artist who thinks he's going crazy because he's falling in love with this mannequin that comes to life only for him, his black gay friend and mentor, and a plastic

mannequin who was given freedom from her life circumstances but by definition has to hide her true self from everyone but one person. And it's like they're all just a bunch of freaks in the eye of the world but like this article is saying it's the fact that they all see each other and therefore are sexist

scene and they are made to feel like they're not crazy and they're made to feel like they have worth and they're made to feel like the way that they live their lives should be celebrated and it's what I was saying about like the friendship between Andrew McCarthy and the Hollywood character like these two mismatched like straight quote normal white guy and this like flamboyant black gay man and how the flamboyant gay character is sort of he's like the ringleader who's telling everybody to like love themselves and be who they are and like they say at one point it's his acceptance of the Andrew McCarthy character that is at the

center of this thing and like not the other way around so it's sort of about the weirdos being okay in the end and I think I must have just needed that as a kid because that did that world did not exist for me outside of a fairy tale like this it doesn't even matter if it's a good movie because I think at the end of the day like if you take something meaningful out of it you know and you feel a little bit more seen or whatever I think that's why for me the movie kind of like lives on gotcha I love you you know and I love you and that's my deep dive on the movie mannequin I mean that was a 26 10 that was

It was not a mini ditty. It was not a mini ditty. That was a major ditty. That was a major ditty.

Cheesecakes, we love you so much. Thank you for going with us on these journeys. Because we're all on a journey. Because we're all on a journey. Hey, Cheesecakes, before we get you out of here, I want to remind you, I am on tour starting in February. All you got to do is go to PatrickTours.com to get all the info, all the tickets. The shows are selling out, but most of them are more than half sold. A lot of them only have a couple tickets left. So come and see me. Meet your fellow Cheesecakes. It's going to be amazing. What else do we want these Cheesecakes to do? We want them to join the Golden Girls Deep Dive Podcast discussion group on Facebook.

Yes, get in there. The group is growing. We've got almost 5,000 members. I mean, what? If you want to make new friends, talk about the Golden Girls, just like share your life story. Talk about life. That's what I do. I know. Every now and then I'll post a random video. Your videos from your dressing room are so fun. I love those. Oh, well, thank you. They're so good. That's it, Cheezies. We love you. We'll see you next week. Bye. Bye.

Hey, Cheesecakes. I want to tell you about another podcast I really think you should check out. It's called Voices for Justice, and it's made by my friend, Sarah Turney. So Sarah's not just a true crime host. She's an advocate who has firsthand experience advocating for victims and their family members in the true crime space.

So Sarah Turney began Voices of Justice by discussing her own sister, Alyssa Turney's true crime case. And while Alyssa's case is now awaiting trial, she's covering other cases in need of justice. The podcast doesn't just cover cases in the traditional way. Each episode ends with a call to action with at least one actionable step to help cases in need of justice.

The show features exclusive audio interviews with families, victims, and advocates. And it features a mix of popular true crime cases as well as those virtually unknown to the media. Sarah often works directly with members of the victim's family to better understand their specific case needs. I love Voices for Justice. I've been listening to it from the beginning. Sarah is such an incredible advocate. I cannot recommend enough that you go and find Voices for Justice wherever you listen to podcasts.