Clinton Kelly: "What Not To Wear" Icon and "Golden Girls Deep Dive" Superfan!
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That's hello, T-E-N-D dot com slash DC podcast to book today. Cheesecakes! It's Patrick. Hey, before we get to the interview with Clinton, I just wanted to give you an update on my tour. So as many of you know, I'm heading to seven cities in February and March with my storytelling party show, where for the first part of the evening, I'm telling you a hilarious true story about a disastrous evening I spent with Golden Girl icon Bea Arthur. And then for the

second half of the evening, we all head to the venue bar. We've got the place to ourselves for the entire evening and we're all going to drink and hang out and take pictures and become best friends.

friends. But I wanted to let you know we are very close to selling out in Seattle, Los Angeles, and Indianapolis. As in, there are fewer than 15 tickets left in each of those cities. I'm also coming to Denver, Salt Lake City, and New Orleans, and those shows are also selling really well. So if you're thinking about coming to see me, grab your tickets while you still can. And I'll be announcing a bunch more cities in the next few weeks.

You can get all the information and tickets at PatrickTours.com. I promise you it's going to be one of the funnest nights of your year, and I cannot wait to meet you. All right, now to the interview with Clinton.

Hi, Patrick Hines. Cheesecakes, we're taking a week off from our regular episodes for the holiday, but we'll be back next week with our regular recap and deep dive episode. In the meantime, Cheesecakes, gird your loins. We are super excited to bring you our interview with Golden Girls superfan and Golden Girls deep dive podcast superfan, Clinton Kelly. Woo-hoo!

Clinton! Your boyfriend Clinton was here. My boyfriend Clinton was here. We are two fashionistas. Yes, you heard that. You know Clinton from his 10 seasons as the co-host of the wildly popular reality fashion show What Not to Wear and as the Emmy-winning co-host of the ABC daytime hit The Chew. Bless you. Bless you.

The Chew, I hardly know you. Get it? Kiss you, I hardly know you. Okay, thank you. Anyway, he is also the author of several hilarious books. He's an icon. He's fabulous. And he's our new best friend because he brought us fancy baked goods. I mean, he brought us like ringdings and cheesecake. Yeah, and he brought Patrick ringdings because he's a communist and he hates cheesecake. I gotta tell you, it was so sweet of him to know that I didn't like cheesecake. He brought me a ringding. I ate both of them. That is in fact a super fan. It is in fact a super fan. Oh,

Oh, and by the way, does this guy have an amazing story about his trip to Action Park? If you know, you know. And if you don't know, you're about to find out. Enjoy cheesecakes. And we'll say a quick goodbye on the way out. Hi, Clinton Kelly. Hello, Patrick. And hello, Jennifer. I'm dying right now. Oh, we're dying, Clinton. I was going to say, welcome to the Golden Girls Deep Dive podcast. Thank you so much. The first thing I was saying to Jen today, you were the first, like, famous person to reach out to us. And I remember my husband was, like, freaking out when that happened. He's like, yeah.

Clinton Kelly commented on one of your things. He's like, you have to get in there and do it right now. And I think I DM'd you like instantly. And I was like, hi. I'm obsessed with you guys. I'm obsessed with this podcast. I listen religiously on Mondays. You don't understand. The weekend before, I will watch the episode that you're going to talk about so that I know exactly what you're going to talk about. And I can sort of talk along at you. Oh my God. Usually in the car. I'm

I'm driving. I was going to say, set the scene. You're a car listener. I'm a car listener on Monday. I have a two hour drive on Monday mornings. And it's like, boom, I'm with I'm with you, too. I'm talking to you in the car while driving. How did you find the podcast? My husband is a huge Golden Girls fan.

Okay. So we can never agree on a podcast. So he's, you know, he's searching for a podcast that we both might like. And he's like, why don't we try this one? And he goes, Jennifer Simard is on it. You love Jennifer Simard. And I was like, well, I do love Jennifer Simard. Oh my gosh. So I'll give it a shot. And no offense, Patrick, but I didn't know you. Right. So I was like, all right, let's listen to it. So we listened to it. And it's the one podcast that we can both listen to and be super happy about. I might cry right now. Honestly, I'm so, I'm so moved. Genuinely. Yes. Yes.

Yes. But you can't be surprised. Everybody loves you. Oh, gosh, no. But that's so sweet. No, Jennifer, first of all, I came here to basically rave about this podcast and about you, too, not to talk about myself. I saw you in company, and you blew my freaking mind. You were awesome.

You stole the show. I don't care who else might have, you know, gotten more accolades than you did. You were the best part of the show. I saw it before the pandemic. And then I saw it again after the pandemic. Wow. And you real after that, I was like, who is this woman? I need to know everything about her. So then I went to see you at 54 Below. So I'm a little bit of a stalker. So you saw her in the show and then you like bought a ticket to her 54 Below show. Yeah.

Amazing. And then, of course, I went to see Death Becomes Her before it even opened. Thank you very, very much. And one of the reasons why I feel teary is because I've been a fan of yours for a long time since What Not to Wear. And truthfully, so this is huge for me. But also because of the pandemic.

I don't have to tell you all what that was like. And so we never knew if theater would come back. And I used to listen to Patrick on TCO. And that was my walk around my childhood neighborhood was listening to this. So the fact that we've become such good friends and the fact that this came together and the fact that you're now here, it makes me truly emotional because doing this podcast is something I've always wanted to do. And here it is. And here you are. It is full circle because I...

I had been a fan of you for forever. We had mutual friends. And then I found out that you were listening to True Crime Obsessed. I couldn't believe it. Then you and I became friends. Yeah. Then we started making this podcast. Then you commented. My husband, who watched, I think, every single episode of What Not to Wear, like, totally obsessed.

And no offense to you, but Hadgett sort of explained to me who you were and what that was. And I was like, wait a second, what? And then I started watching your TikToks and your Instagram Reels. I was like, this is just going to be a love fest in here. It's going to be great. It is. I'm so happy to be here. Thanks for inviting me. I will say right off the bat, I'm not as obsessed with the Golden Girls as I am obsessed with the Golden Girls Deep Dive Pop.

Oh, I love you. You know what? We'll take it. Okay, good. We'll take it. I like the Golden Girls. Don't get me wrong. And notes. Do you think the podcast is too long? No. Okay. Well, he has that two-hour drive. That's true. Look, I'm team long podcast. I get sad when they're too short. Me too. Whatever I'm listening to. I've made a lot of podcasts in my day and I used to always say like an hour was the maximum. Some of our

Episodes are like an hour and 40 minutes. Hour 40. I have not once thought this episode is too long. Ever, ever, ever. In fact, I have thought that I want more episodes over the course of the week, which I know is too much to ask. Well, someday. Someday. We're working on it. It's just, it's so good that I find myself, like, when it comes up, you know, refreshes in the

feet. I'm like, oh my God, Clinton! Sometimes, too, we get curious if there's too many deep dives and then we started shaving them back and I'm like, I don't know that that's a good idea because people love the minis, the mini ones. You know what's so funny about the mini deep dives? When I first started listening, I'm like, why are they calling this a mini deep dive? Is that like a little plunge? Like, is it shallow? Is it not deep if it's mini? Okay.

That's so funny because the idea was like we would do a long deep dive at the end and then like mini deep dives throughout. I mean, once cork cheese came, it was all over. I have to do the annoying self-indulgent thing. What are your favorite deep dives? What are the things that like, what are the moments that you're like, oh, that's so interesting?

I love when you go into, like, characters that play supporting roles that we've seen in other shows. The lady who played the daughter in the second episode, whose, like, superintendent was Yoko Ono, of her building on Christopher Street. Oh, Kate. The one, the Kate who got married. Dorothy and Stan's daughter. Yeah. Yes. So many of them. It's just really, it's just such a treat. It's like, we were just talking about how, like, these prepping for the episodes can take full days because we get lost in the research. Like, one episode.

click begets another click and then that's your whole day. - How many times do you watch the episode before you do an episode of this? - Depends. This one I think I watched twice. What about you? - For today I watched twice. I usually, I mean, but I've seen them 800 times. But I'll speed watch it once to figure out what I want my mini deep dives to be to give to the researcher. Then I'll watch it on regular speed and then I'll watch it again like while I'm taking notes. - Yeah, there was some episode like the 900 apron episode. I had to count. I was like, who's wearing what apron?

Sometimes the timelines with our good friend Stan, I was like, wait, what day are we in? Like, I have to go back. It's true. I was talking to a friend. What show were we talking about where they were like, oh, it's amazing how on this other show the timelines are so consistent and everything is. And I'm like, the Golden Girls is not like that. In one episode, Blanche has never slept with a married man. In another episode, it's a hobby of hers to sleep with married men. It's like no consistency. Like no show Bible at all. Zero. Like Bible for...

free. These characters can come from wherever they want, do whatever they want. I was listening to the episode recently about where you guys were talking about your first times and I was dying. Dying. I have so many questions. Oh my God. I got

I gotta tell you, that guy is still in my life. Yeah. I wrote about it in my book and I had to get his permission kind of to write about it. And so I read him the chapter in front of my husband. My husband and him are also good friends now. And the whole way through, he's like, that didn't happen. That never happened. That's not how it happened. That's not what happened. Really? I'm like...

it is burned into my brain. It was, it was, it was a joy to write about it. And yours, the engorged penis. The engorged penis had me laughing. I was pulling into the garage, both of my car and I had to like stop. I was literally like making a right hand turn into the garage to park my car. And I was like, nope, I got to stop right here on the street and listen to this. Here's,

the thing and I couldn't tell you where I heard it some TV show or something someone used it in like a comedy thing and I thought have I told this story enough times now that they're using my material because I swear I didn't steal it from whatever I heard it from true story have to have sex have to have sex

Penis becomes engorged with blood. Engorged with blood. I mean, she's not going near that thing. And there you are with like, you know, jello pudding pops or whatever. You brought a whole buffet to the first time. Oh, to the first time. I mean. Oh, the nine and a half weeks of it all. The nine and a half weeks in a church. Yes. You know, a Catholic school gymnasium basement. I was like, this girl is a freak. Oh, I'm a freak. I know. There was a time in the 90s where it was like, if you weren't dripping hot wax on your partner, you were ruining the whole experience. Oh.

listen i've never done it with food i don't know well you know that's i'm the blanche devereaux what can i say now when did you first watch the golden girls clinton i think it was in the 90s like the you know when it was repeating on lifetime syndicated it was on all the time so yeah i never watched it when it came out in the in the late 80s and early yeah because i was always busy it was saturday night yeah oh somebody had a life over here and

Not us. Oh, no. No, I was working. I was a total nerd, too. But I was working. My parents were like big on work. So I was working as a busboy and as a waiter. And so every Saturday night, I was like, I got to make the cash. Long Island. Oh, amazing. Yeah. So I was working every Saturday night for the years that it was on, like the seven or eight years. So I watched it when I was a freelance writer in New York. I'd be working from home and I'd be like, I would just always have the TV on in the background.

Yeah. For noise. And so the Golden Girls was always just like seeping into my brain. Uh-huh. I never became obsessed with it, but it's just become a part of my life. Yeah. But your husband is obsessed with it. Yes. My husband loves the Golden Girls. Okay. He always has, I think. And during the pandemic, he just rewatched the entire thing. Do you know... Does he have a favorite that you know of? And do you have a favorite episode that you... Or... You know what? All right. So I don't know if I have a favorite episode as much as I have an episode that really like sticks out in my mind. Sure. It's...

I think it's called A Piece of Cake. Does that sound right? Okay, where it's, they're sort of having flashbacks. So there's a flashback of Dorothy as young Dorothy. Oh, everyone's obsessed with that actress. The one who plays, I mean, she's so beautiful. She actually goes on to direct a couple episodes of The Golden Girls. Oh, I didn't know that. Yes. But I remember watching that episode and seeing her and being like, oh my, this is the best cast

in the world. Her physicality, what she does with her hands. Also, as a fashion person, the way that she looks in those costumes, she's just slender and the clothes fit her so well. Well, this is the thing. I wish that older Dorothy had cinched her waist a little bit like young Dorothy did. We got some cards for you to look at in a second. We're going to get into that. I didn't say this. I was saving it for when we were recording, but don't worry. I usually walk in here and like, you know,

a garbage bag and today he's like oh why are you dressed like a broadway actress today i'm like no that's for clinton you don't understand she came as helen sharp she is helen sharp i was like i had to dress up for my boo you don't don't understand there was an episode of this podcast where you were giving a lot of fashion like cinching the waist and creating longer lines on the leg i was like all right jennifer smart has got to have seen at least a couple of episodes of what not to wear because i was like i've said all the

things before. Absolutely. Did you laugh when I described my curves as like a jar of jam? Like,

Like, if you put a curvy girl in a, like, you have to be careful. Like, you have to be structured. Yes, it does. You know, like, don't put her in a caftan. You can't. Come on. I remember listening back to that episode and just guffawing. Just a jar, just lumps. While we're here, we can transition into, like, into your wheelhouse. Because my first, like, fashion question for you is, what is it, why don't I have any, and how do I get some? You don't have style? Nope. I always say I'm a gay with no taste. That's what you always say.

I have like all my clothes are from Stitch Fix. They send them to me in a box. They send them to you. I keep the ones that I like. Yeah. Well, look, we can talk about this for three hours if you wanted to, because this is my life. I've been doing it for 20 years. Right. So the first thing you need to do is distinguish between fashion and style. Like, you know, everybody has a style. If you put those clothes on of your own free will this morning, you have a style. You may or may not like it. That's up to you. Right. Yeah. Then you have to decide what it is that you want to tell the rest of the world, because clothes are communication and communication is power. Right. Right.

So you want to ask yourself, what do I want to be communicating to the rest of the world with my clothes? So I might ask you right now, what do you want people to know about you? You know, I would say like I'm a dad. And so I like to sort of exude that I have some sort of energy. You know, one more thing.

word to describe what I'm trying to convey with my clothes that I'm like not old yet. Okay. So I'm hearing like young, energetic and feeling confident about yourself. Yeah. So the opposite of those things would be clothes that didn't fit. Yeah. Clothes that were in drab colors, things that just what I wore most of my life. Right. So the first step would be to do the opposite of that. Do the opposite of what you've been doing. Clothes that fit you a little bit better. Energy is often conveyed by brighter colors or patterns, textures, you know, that kind of

thing and also just paying attention to how clothes fit you which conveys a sense of responsibility when you said the dad thing you know like clothes that fit make the biggest difference in the world because truly they're hanging off of you it just sort of gives you this sense of like it gives other people the sense that you're like you don't really care enough you don't really want to be seen and if you wear clothes that are too tight other people get the impression that you don't really have a good sense of your body in the world it's like oh you

he's wearing, you know, a size medium when he's obviously a large, you know, it's like, you know, it's like totally. So it's just these subtle cues that other people pick up on that. That's what I love about style so much. It's like, it's really tricking other people to think about you, what you want them to think about you. Didn't you say once in, I don't know, episode something or other that to not be afraid to in

invest in a tailor to get your clothes tailored. Most people don't give themselves that gift. Yeah, you really need a tailor. Everybody you know has great style, has a great tailor. That's just the way it is. OK, if you let's talk about women's wear for a second, right? Because how are clothes designed? Clothes are designed on a dress form, right? And that dress form is a size four. OK, and it's about five foot seven.

OK, so that's what the designers are designing for. Then a computer. OK, a designer doesn't go in and say like, oh, I just designed the four. Let me design the zero. Let me design the eight. Let me design the 14. A computer does that. OK, so a computer does all the mathematics and then spits out a pattern for that other size. So if you are a woman who is five foot seven and a size four, you're in the zone, right? Yeah. You can really go into a store, pick up something off the rack, and it's probably going to fit you pretty well.

however if you are smaller than that either either shorter or taller or bigger or smaller like you're no longer in the bullseye so you're going to need something to help you look like you're in the bullseye and that is going to be a tailor now is it normal like when i take this to a tailor with this shirt i'm wearing yeah you wouldn't i could i would say that's a knit knits are harder to tailor they can be done but like wovens are you know like the

the fabric of your pants. Yeah. Like a jacket. A jacket. Those are easier to tailor. And did you always have this interest in sort of their foreknowledge or like, how do you learn this? Yeah. I didn't grow up with money, but I did have a grandmother who had excellent taste and worked at Saks Fifth Avenue. And she was a personal shopper at Saks Fifth Avenue. And I,

I learned very early that people will treat you in a certain way if you dress in a certain way. Yeah. Right? It's like, I learned very early on if I had a little shirt with an alligator on it, I got treated differently than the kid who had the flannel shirt on.

- Uh-huh. - Interesting. - And I liked that power. And so I always sort of had a sense of like, this is-- - That was one of my top three adjectives, by the way, when you were doing adjectives. - Yeah? - Powerful. - What are your other two? - They're kind of synonymous with powerful. Powerful, strong. I'm gonna put two together.

tastefully sexy. Yeah. OK. So whenever I hear tastefully sexy, I always feel like that's skin, but not too much skin. And then power is power is sharp lines. It's always sharp lines. Always, always, always.

Well, Bette Midler told me once that you'll know when it is, Jennifer, when you want to start dressing more like a woman than a girl. And when I say tastefully sexy, that's what I mean, too. Like, just womanly. Right. I don't want to, I don't need to wear a rubber band anymore. Yeah. You know, it's tricky. I mean, we're sort of jumping all over the place, but this is... No, it's okay.

It's good. I thought I was here for the golden. I'm here for whatever you want me to do. Like I will give you style consultations up the wazoo. So, you know, the thing is, I used to say years ago, like over the age, over a certain age. OK, women might not want to dress too sexy. Right. Show too much skin. And I used to say it was because you're setting up this competition between yourself and the 22 year old who walks into a bar wearing the exact same thing.

thing ordering a round of margaritas for her friends. Like you're wearing the same thing with her. You set up this competition like, oh, guess what? The 22 year old is probably going to win. But now my opinion has changed so much that like, you know, it's like if you're happy in your own skin, then you really can show as much of it as you want. But you have to ask yourself, why do I feel the need to show this much of myself to strangers? Is it for their validation or do I need validation from them? Really?

for opening night of death becomes her, another adjective of mine is comfortable. That's a big thing for me now. And I actually said to my stylist, I said,

I know the skin that I want to show. It has to do with my, my decolletage and my breasticles. But it's like, I don't want to worry about my arms. I don't want to worry about angles and back and all this stuff and legs. And I said, you know what? There's plenty of stunning young dancers in my show. I said, I really want, let them do that. I don't have any interest in, it's not a competition, but to your point, I have no interest in-

You looked incredible. I felt incredible. I felt sexy and womanly. Yeah. But not, and I felt my age. Yeah. And just as gorgeous as all these gorgeous young women, but in a completely different vein. Right. So it was great. And it's like, it's a wonderful place to be where you look at these young kids, you're like, enjoy. Yeah. Enjoy that taut, tight space.

body with that perfect skin because this is your future, bitch. Here it is. Exactly. I have to ask you, Patrick, do you want to, since we're doing fashion, do you want to segue to the fun, to the game? Clinton, if you don't mind, there are some just iconic moments

from the Golden Girls. Yes. And we went through and we picked like eight or nine and we wanted to sort of get your opinion. We wanted to sort of get your opinion, your thoughts, how you would style it, if they're nailing it, if you would have done it differently. Okay. I probably would have done it differently. I'll go first. I'll go first. And I'll say that I have this in my dressing room as a Christmas ornament. And hold it to the camera as well.

It's also a little bit like your costume in Jessica Cubs. That's why. That's why. This is, we learn in this episode, this was her wedding dress. This was her wedding.

So for people who are listening at home and you can't see it, it's Blanche's red, like, sexy wedding dress. What season is it? This is season six, episode 22. Yeah. So it comes later. She looks, I mean, like, she looks amazing. Yes. But so go ahead, Clinton. Tell us your thoughts. So my thought is that the dress is actually very flattering.

Right. I mean, this ruching is fantastic because it just hides a multitude of sins. And I say that with, you know, quotation marks, air quotes around it. Yeah. You know, I love bringing a little sparkle to the decolletage. Yeah.

my big issue with i would like to see more skin like i want to know like did she walk down the aisle with this sort of cape over it or was this an addition as as she got a little bit older but i gotta tell you i hate the hose so much i do i'm just not i've never been a fan of matchy matchy matchy matchy yeah and it's like oh look it's it's all red from head to toe yeah and it's just such a weird shade of of red it's like you know just do a nude like a

really expensive nude. What's your take on, like, not a traditional wedding dress? Oh, I'm all about that. Yeah. Like, right at your wedding? You know, this whole, like, white, I don't know if you got married in a white dress, but I have nothing against a white dress. Yeah. But I'm also like, you know, why? Is that because you were, you know, told at the age of four that one day you're going to grow up and you're going to be a princess in a white dress? And, you know, so I'm, you know, I'm a little bit like, I've seen so many brides walk down the aisle in white dresses. I'm like, please. Yeah, like Blanche. It's like, I know what you did last Tuesday. Yeah.

I'm all about the wear whatever you want for your wedding. I wouldn't suggest that to a funeral because I know she does wear a red dress to a funeral, right? Yes, same season she wears it to Dorothy's brother Phil who we never meet. Yeah. Who also was buried in a teddy because he was like a quote cross-dresser. Remember that whole thing? So this is Dorothy's classic green tuxedo. Oh my God. Hold it up to the camera, Patrick. Hold it to the camera. This is just absolutely stunning.

stunningly wild. This is season two, episode 10. Make it make sense, Clinton. I can't. I hate the proportions of this thing so much. I can't deal. It's like, why do you want to make your torso look that long? I know. Nobody needs a torso that long. I don't remember. Well, that's exactly right. I don't remember where she was going in this episode, but like she wasn't running a casino night, which is what it should be doing. Yes. I'm getting like a little PTSD because I went to a girl's prom wearing that color bow tie. Yeah.

and cummerbund and I'm just having like this flashback. It was so awkward and awful. No, I want to do so many things to that. I want to make that jacket shorter. I want to make the skirt shorter. I want to tuck in the blouse. I want to stop with the matchy-matchy-matchy. You know, you watch reruns of the show. You think that everybody in the 80s was wearing completely matching outfits. It wasn't. No, they were...

People would pop color all the time. My question about Bea Arthur being costumed in this show in general is like, she looks like she's got an incredible figure, right? And they're always dressing her in these like big blousey boxy. Do you think it was at her request? I think it really must have been because I'm trying to put myself in the place of the costume designer. Like, why would you put a woman in this? Because her clothes actually give off the impression that she does not like her body.

at all. Yes. And like you see her and you're like, I'd kill for that body. She's like 65. I want that body. She's like a wispy waif, you know? And it's like, yeah, she could be wearing lots of things. I don't know why there's no accent on the waist ever. Not even a belt. When we did the deep dive on the costumes, if you recall, everyone is shopped except her. Except for her. There's the one episode where Dorothy's like going out for the evening and she's like, come

out and then like rose and blanche are appraising her outfit and i just remember them being like like but non-existent boson oh god but you know the way that the pearls draw your eye to the spare tire around her square manly hips just horrible it's like why don't we put a sign back too ugly to live i know that you guys have talked about maude a

on this podcast before, right? Now, did you really, I don't think you dove into how different Bea Arthur looks just 10 years later. I said that she looks 10 years older on Maude than she ever does on the Golden Girls. She looks like a different person. And like, I don't know anything, but it looks like she's had some face work done. Yeah, I think she did. Yeah, and good for her. But she looks, and same with Ruma Cranahan, they both look significantly older on Maude.

on Maude than they do on the Golden Girls. Agreed. It's wild. Yeah, yeah. You know, I think that, you know, the Golden Girls, there was a lot of bright colors and stuff like that, so that made them look a little bit younger, but I'm fascinated by Bea Arthur's transformation body shape. She looks like she lost a lot of weight and had a little lift here and there, which I have no judgment from. Yeah, same. I don't know if you want, I definitely want to do this one next. I don't know if we do have to do all of them.

You let me know, but this one we've got to do. Oh, yes. So this is classic. This is the listeners at home. This is what season is it? This is season four, episode three, Rites of Spring. And it's the exercise outfits. That's all they know. They get tricked into buying like the exercise workout outfits. Right. Well, this is, you know, it's kind of amazing. Like it's totally hot. Like you want to go to you want to see them in the club like that. Right. It's like you want to see them in the club wearing those outfits.

And I just love that it sort of plays into the, you know, the Let's Get Physical, Olivia Newton-John thing of the time. Because it's like sequined. You would never work out in that outfit, yet they're at a workout class. Yeah. I mean, you know, the sequins are ridiculous. But people did wear things just like that to work out that weren't sequined. The headbands and the, do you remember this too? Like the inexplicable leg warmers that everyone wore? We're not dancers. We're not at the Joffrey. But it was just this thing we all, and I remember going, well, my calves are warm.

You know, even though I'm like not in any way going to do anything to ever tear a gastrocnemius. There's no way. It's just not happening. But I'm fashion. I'm fashion. It's also like the way women always wore those like super high cut leotards or whatever. Which I think were kind of sexy. I mean, it was a sexy movie. That movie, what was it called?

perfect with John Travolta and Jamie Lee Curtis. The world's most perfect body, Jamie Lee Curtis, Jay Scott. It's really sexy. All these people just like hip thrusting and wearing hardly anything and just sweating. Like, oh my God, I got to excuse myself and put this on pop. It's just funny that they were such easy marks in this episode to like spend all the money on like the fancy

Fancy workout clothes now are super expensive. Like Lululemon or whatever. It's very expensive, but it's practical. You can at least actually sweat in it. I think they could use this in other aspects of their lives. Totally. That gorgeous little tank. That embellished tank that Dorothy is wearing. You saw Company. This would have been great in the nightclub scene at the end. Totally. Oh my God. For Patty's ladies to lunch. We would have been in the background with that. Oh my God. This is when Stan slept over and

Yes, I know. You think this is so hot in this, you think, right? Cannot endure these pink bathrobes. Are you just trying to get me to validate your lust for Stan in this episode? Listen, I don't know what my problem is. Stan is not my type at all, but there's something about him in this bathrobe. Or the professor that hits on, not hits on, who sexually harasses Blanche. You're like, I would sleep with him.

He was like a tall, lanky drink of water. He was cute, yeah. This, you know, I really do like it as a bathrobe for Dorothy, as you guys mentioned at the time. Yeah. You never see Dorothy wearing something that beautiful. And, you know, is there something a little sexy about a man wearing a woman's bathrobe? There kind of is. Totally. Not Stan, however. A lot of times if Stan was in an episode, I'd just be like, I'm not watching. I'd turn it down. I know, yeah. He bothered the shit out of me. That's okay. It's like...

We don't like stick men. No, that's how I feel like the episodes where they tried to launch to, was it? Oh, Empty Nest. Empty Nest. You know, just like I was like, no, sorry. Yeah, no, no, no. The holidays are about spending time with your loved ones and creating magical memories that will last a lifetime. So whether it's family and friends you haven't seen in a while or those who you see all the time, share holiday magic this season with an ice cold Coca-Cola. Copyright 2024, The Coca-Cola Company.

Calling all of you theater lovers, both out and proud and on the DL, it's time to check out Broadway Breakdown, a podcast discussing the history and legacy of American theater's most exclusive address, Broadway. Hosted by me, Matt Koplik, a semi-famous, incredibly opinionated theater fan. Join me and my guests as we do major deep dives into some of your favorite, or least favorite shows. Here's some of our takes that are hot, yet nuanced, salty, but also sincere. We'll be right back.

Or come listen to my thoughts on the latest show to grace Broadway this season and see if it's up your alley. Or check out our frequent discussions on the Tony Awards and learn how to win your next prediction pool. Listening to an episode of Broadway Breakdown is like grabbing a drink with your bestie and gabbing about theater. Fun, foul-mouthed, and surprisingly informative.

Or at least that's what it's like when I'm with my bestie. So give a listen to Broadway Breakdown and take your theater discourse to the next level. Broadway Breakdown, found on the Broadway Podcast Network or wherever you listen to podcasts. ♪

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Yeah. So I make another podcast called True Crime Obsessed where we recap true crime documentaries. One of our most popular episodes is the episode we did. It's called Class Action Park on Action Park. So a lot of our cheesecakes are listeners to that podcast too. And you have a story about being at Action Park. Yes. Will you share? One of the worst days of my life was being at Action Park. Oh, God. You're here to tell. You lived. I wrote about this in my book that I wrote years ago. Tell them the title. It's called I Hate Everyone Except You. Except You. Yeah. All right.

All right. So I begged my parents to take me to Action Park because these commercials on TV made it seem like it was the coolest place in the whole world. The commercials are wild. They're wild. Yeah. And I love amusement parks and stuff like that. So I was like, please take me to Action Park. So we have the day at Action Park and it's kind of gross because it's like, you know, kind of grossies walking around and you're in the water with them. And I'm a little bit of a germaphobe. So I was like, this is gross. And they're all bleeding because...

because of the Alpine slide. And for Cheesecakes who don't know this, this is like the most dangerous water park. It was like run by children. The rides were not safe at all. There was like no lifeguards. You were not safe when you were there. Tell us about Kevin. Is that his name? Kevin? Oh, yeah.

You said children, so I was inspired. So I go up to Kamikaze, which nobody seems to be going on except a couple of fully grown men. And now keep in mind that I'm like, Kamikaze? Yeah, it was. And here I am, 13, maybe 12. And when I tell you I was a toothpick, I was so skinny.

So and I begged my parents. I begged my mom to get me this white OP. Remember OP bathing suit? Of course. Ocean Pacific? Of course. So I had this white OP bathing suit. I can't believe I'm talking about this. Okay. And so then I go up to the top of Kamikaze and it is a water slide that's straight down. It goes straight down and makes a 45 degree turn. Okay. Is that 45? Yeah. No, 90 degree turn. Yeah. And it goes pretty fast. And then it sort of shoots you out into a slightly deeper pool of water.

So and then so I go up there. The guy running the thing is named Kevin. And I'm like, he's looking. I'm like, should I be doing this? He's like, whatever. You know, he's like, who cares? And I'm like, I can't I can't climb down because my parents are watching. So Kevin presses this button and the floor drops out and I go down this thing and you're not even touching the slide. You don't even touch the slide. You're a literal warning. No warning. Literal. This is like.

Free fall. Oh my God. Free fall. Then you finally hit the slide. You do the turn and you get shot out. Now my spindly little leg spread wide open and water. And I was like, my bathing suit went up. My junk is fully hanging out. Just like a

Baby giraffe. Totally. Baby bat being born. Oh, God. My legs flay open. Water goes everywhere. My junk is hanging out. I pull my bathing suit down. My parents are like, wow, that was something. They couldn't believe that I did it. So then I'm walking around. I'm like, something feels funny in my insides. Oh, no.

So they're like, let's get out of here. This park sucks. I'm like, let's go. I was like, let's just get out of here. So I'm like, I think I have to use the bathroom. This park isn't scary enough for me. Let's go. Let's go. So they're like, use the bathroom because we've got a two hour drive back to Long Island. So I was like, okay. So I go into the bathroom and I'm standing in a urinal. And you know, sometimes before men go to pee, they fart a little bit. A little fart and then the pee comes out. Well, I fart. And water spills out onto the floor.

chlorinated water. And the guy next to me was like, looking at me like, what the fuck just happened? And

Oh, my God. It was terrible. Oh, that is wonderful. And then I just went back, you know, in the car and I didn't talk for the whole ride home. I was like, are you okay? What's wrong? I'm like, I put water. This is so personal and I, it's so personal and I'm so grateful that you shared it with us. That is. This is where Jillian, your beautiful partner from True Crime Obsessed, this is where I first heard her do the car noise. Oh,

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you cross the highway? The impression of a highway. The impression of a highway. What was it? That metal ball that crossed the highway? What was that? Oh, the man on the ball in the ball? The man on the ball in the ball? And like, did you do the one that was just like the... No, that was closed. Cannonball lube. Cannonball lube. I would have done it because I was so stupid. That's the one where their teeth

embedded in the ceiling. Did you watch the documentary? Because the documentary is insane. I did watch the documentary. It's insane. It's wild. It's 100% true. That place was ridiculous. Never should have been allowed to be open. People died. And after this story, I could use a cocktail. I'm not drinking. No. So this was one of the other things I was reading about you was that on the chew, sometimes people would do cocktails. You like to make cocktails. I love to consume a cocktail. I was a bartender for 15 years. Oh, you were? I had like a fancy

I feel like I'm actually a pretty good mixologist. Like I can make a nice drink. So tell me, what do you like to make? Well, I'm in my Manhattan phase right now. I like classic cocktails. I don't need the smoked whatever. I mean, go do your thing if that makes you happy. That's how you find out if it's a good cocktail. Exactly.

You know, I have a friend who only orders old fashions at every bar to find the best one. The best one. So I'm right. I'm a gin and tonic or I'm a gimlet, gin gimlet guy in the summer. Fresh or roses? Fresh. I love a gin and tonic. Gin and tonic. Do you like a gimlet? It's funny you should say that. I don't. I have to try one. But my hair supervisor at Death Becomes Her, hi, Mark Capalbo, his Sunday night ritual, he sends me a text every week saying,

He goes to his house upstate and he'll make himself a vodka gimlet while watching reruns of Murder, She Wrote. Oh. And that's his jam. And so when I go visit him, that's what we will be having. What kind of gin do you like? Is that true? A vodka? You can have a vodka gimlet? You can have a vodka gimlet. I prefer a gin gimlet. You know what? I grew up on Tangeray because I literally, this is how I used to get, this is how I was able to drink well before it was legal for me to drink. Like,

I would go into a bar at the age of 16 and say, I'll have a tangerine tonic, please. And they'd be like, what 16-year-old would do that? He must be of age. They're like, he's 6'12". He's got to be of age. You know what? His clothes are conveying power. Power. I went in in a suit. I went in wearing a suit. Yeah, you did. I put on.

And how tall were you at that age? At that age, I was 6'1". Yeah. So, duh. So I was like, yeah. They were like, okay, this tall, skinny. If you were wearing a flannel shirt, forget it. Get out of here. Wait, and for bourbon, what kind of bourbon do you like? I actually am drinking rye these days. I drink a rye Manhattan.

and I'm all about Angel's Envy right it's so good Angel's Envy is really good I love bourbon I'm an Eagle Rare drinker oh nice when we my other podcast we did one night on Broadway so we did like we made like our Broadway debuts and we splurged and bought a $3,000 bottle of

bourbon of Happy Van Winkle. Oh, yeah. Wow. Is that how much they cost? Yeah. And can you taste the difference? You know what? By the time we opened it that night, I was pretty drunk. But I do remember we snuck away into my daughter. We did the after party at my apartment and we snuck away into my daughter's bedroom. And it was me and my podcast partner and her parents and my husband. And we opened this bottle that we've been saving for like a year. And I remember sipping it and being like this is

tastes like $3,000. Okay. I have to suggest to all the listeners too, this is a fun game. Pick your alcohol of choice. Let's say it's red wine. But if you do like four different kinds of different price points and wrap them in brown paper and then do a tasting, you'll be amazed at how many cheap bastards all of you are out there. Most people like the cheap stuff. It's true. It's true.

Well, before we let you go, you're going to tell us about Wear Whatever the F You Want. Okay, yeah. So I don't know when it's coming out. Yes. It's all been shot and edited, and I'm just waiting for Amazon to release it. Wow. How is it different from What Not to Wear? It's kind of the opposite in a lot of ways. So right before the pandemic, I was hosting a show called, I forgot it because I hated it so much. Oh, right. Spring Baking Championship. Uh-huh. Cool.

Are we allowed to keep it in that you hated it so much? Yeah, I don't care. Food Network hates me and now I hate them. So it's like, whatever. Whatever, Food Network. Yeah, so I was doing promotion for them. Okay. And a producer said to me, I'm trying to think how this went down. Yeah, a producer said to me, I wish you'd bring What Not to Wear back. And I was like, you know, well, it's not mine to bring back. It's been 10 years. The world has changed. I've changed so much. And I said, any show that I was going to host right now regarding style would have to be called Wear Whatever the Fuck You Want because I kind of joke.

care. And I was like, oh, that's a good idea for a show. So I wrote up this idea for my agent and manager and then the world shut down. And so then when things started rolling around, I called up Stacey. I was like, well, I had my people call her people and asked if she wanted to be part of this show. And the idea is basically like, what is holding you back from being the most fabulous, authentic version of you? Like in everybody's head, they have this vision of themselves living this like

parallel life where they have a different style. So like the idea behind this is let's try that fantasy style out and see if you really do like it and you can keep it. And if you don't, maybe we tweak it a little bit so that it's more, you know, applicable to your everyday life. So that's what we did on the show. And it's, it's fun. It's really very different. It's not as telling. I don't, I have zero, even during what not to wear, I had no desire to tell people what to do. Like that always sort of bothered me a little bit. I have a question about that. It's,

I think you've said this before, that it is a fine line. You don't want to hurt someone's feelings either, right? And it's so hard when you're like, they want entertainment and how sassy can you be? But it's like you're a human being and you don't want to hurt someone, I imagine. What was that like, writing that line, I guess? Yeah, it was the format of the show, right? I didn't invent that show, but I was hired to do it. And I was like, all right, this is part of it. And I really struggled with that a lot because...

I'm not a critical person. I like, I really, really love helping people win the game. Oh,

That is like such a great, if you ever are on a dating website ever again, that's a great, that's like, oh my God, you want to introduce that person to your parents. Yeah, it's just like, you know, and the game 20 years ago was very different than the game now. The game has completely changed. But we were giving people advice based on the game of 20 years ago, which is that we all kind of assumed, and I came from the world of, you know, magazine editing. I was an editor at Marie Claire, Mademoiselle, all of my bosses were women. You know, it was the idea that

Of course, everybody wants to look taller and thinner and get a man who's a banker. Like, that's what you want, you know? And that obviously is not the case anymore. But back then, we sort of assumed that that's what everybody wanted. So we gave advice on that. Now, when it came to criticizing people's style, you have to remember, people think that, like, reality TV is real. It is not. So Stacey and I would barge into their lives and say, like, your friends and family nominated you for this show. Do you want to do it? And they would say yes or no. And then it would go cut.

Right. And then the producers would sweep swoop in and they would say, hey, this is what the show is all about. This is what you're getting yourself into. There's a little bit of razzing, a little bit of teasing. You know, don't take it personally. It's part of the show. And then they would either agree to do it or not. They'd sign the paperwork or not. So it was like everybody was in on the criticism. Right. So it's like we weren't just saying you're gross. Right.

You allowed us by signing this piece of paper to say that, you know, maybe your ass could look better in different jeans. Right, but the audience doesn't know behind the curtain. They don't know. So I'm glad to explain it to everyone. Reality TV is ridiculous. You know, we shot, just so you know about What Not To Wear, we shot like a solid hour for every minute that aired. Oh,

Really? Yeah, solid. I was reading that it was like 16, 17 hour days. Yeah. Oh, especially the first couple of seasons. Really? Wow. We lived in that studio. Oh my God. Yeah, we were miserable. So you've shot all of the episodes of the new show? Yeah, shot them all. Wow. Yeah, they're fun. Oh my God. I can't wait. But you don't know when they're coming out? Don't know. I think the word right now is April.

But we'll see. That's wonderful. And for what it's worth, and if you don't like her, we can cut it out. But the Chew, I just love Carla. I've always liked her since Top Chef. She's lovely. And let me just talk about lovely. I'm going to hold this up. So Clinton brought us what? Mini cheesecakes and ringdings. Ringdings for me because he knows I don't like cheesecake. Thank you. Will you come back and do this?

again. I will. I will come anytime you call. You're our food network. Maybe next time you bring your husband so we can talk to him about what he loves. That would be great. He said, you know, he's a psychologist. And so he doesn't like his patients knowing too much about him. But I asked him, is it OK if I let the world know that you like the Golden Girls? He said, you know, that's my dream job if I didn't do what I do for a living. Yeah. I went back to school during the pandemic to slowly chip away at it. And one day, one day I'll get

It's a lot of work. I thought about becoming one myself, but I was like, I can't go to school for another five years. I'll be dead by the time I get my degree. And the world needs us to do this. Sit around a table bitching. Clint and Kelly, we love you so much. I love you guys. Thank you for being our first celebrity fan. This is so exciting. It's my thrill to be here. I was talking about it for weeks. Well, we'll have you back soon. Okay, love that. All right, bye. Bye. Bye.

Oh, Cheesecakes, thanks for checking out our interview with our new best friend, Clinton Kelly. Yes, we are obsessed. You can learn every single thing about Clinton at his website, ClintonKelly.com. And we'll be back next week with our regularly scheduled recap and deep dive. We love you, Cheesies. Bye. Bye.

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Hey, Cheesecakes. I want to tell you about another podcast I really think you should check out. It's called Voices for Justice, and it's made by my friend, Sarah Turney. So Sarah's not just a true crime host. She's an advocate who has firsthand experience advocating for victims and their family members in the true crime space.

So Sarah Turney began Voices of Justice by discussing her own sister, Alyssa Turney's true crime case. And while Alyssa's case is now awaiting trial, she's covering other cases in need of justice. The podcast doesn't just cover cases in the traditional way. Each episode ends with a call to action with at least one actionable step to help cases in need of justice.

The show features exclusive audio interviews with families, victims, and advocates. And it features a mix of popular true crime cases as well as those virtually unknown to the media. Sarah often works directly with members of the victim's family to better understand their specific case needs. I love Voices for Justice. I've been listening to it from the beginning. Sarah is such an incredible advocate. I cannot recommend enough that you go and find Voices for Justice wherever you listen to podcasts.