Blind Ambitions (Season 1, Episode 23)
01:31:02 Share

The holidays are all about sharing with family. Meals, couches, stories, grandma's secret pecan pie recipe. And now you can also share a cart with Instacart's family carts. Everyone can add what they want to one group cart from wherever they are. So you don't have to go from room to room to find out who wants cranberry sauce or who should get mini marshmallows for the yams or collecting votes for sugar cookies versus shortbread. Just share a cart and then share the meals and the moments. Download the Instacart app and get delivery in as fast as

Oh, no. Thanks, Revere. I really should keep Zycam in the house. Ha!

Take it from America's most revered messenger. Shorten your cold at the first sign with cold shortening products from Zycam, the number one cold shortening brand. Available in stores or see where to buy at Zycam.com.

Hey, Cheesecakes. Just a quick reminder that tickets for my upcoming tour are now on sale. So the tour is a storytelling event that turns into a party. For the first part of the evening, I'm telling you a very true story about a disastrously hilarious evening I spent with the Golden Girls icon herself, BR.

It was a disaster because I was obsessed with her and she hated me, but she was stuck with me for the entire night. That part of the evening is a little bit less than an hour long and includes an appearance via video by the great Bea Arthur impersonator, Jason B. Schmidt, who's embodying Bea from Beyond the Grave to give her slightly drunk, definitely annoyed take on the whole thing.

Then after that, we all move to the venue bar, which we have for the whole rest of the evening, where we'll meet and greet, we'll drink, we'll take pictures, and we will all become Bast Franz. The first seven cities I'm coming to in February and March are Seattle for opening night, then Los Angeles, Salt Lake City, Denver, New Orleans, Indianapolis, and Kansas City. The venues are super small and tickets are going fast. Tickets and info are available at PatrickTours.com. That's

PatrickTours.com and I can't wait to see you at the show. Okay, now to the episode. Hi, Jennifer Simard. Hi, Patrick Hines. Girl, we gotta just break to the cheesecakes. We're at episode 23 already. We're at episode 23 already. I mean, we are almost a quarter century in. I know. I'm like, we're almost one seventh done with the series. It's like,

Isn't that wild? It is. Don't say it because I never want it to be over. It's never going to be over. We were talking about doing a wrap party for season one. When this is done, Cheesecakes will do like another Zoom happy hour hangout or whatever to celebrate the end of season one. Well, hopefully I can be there. Yeah, maybe Jen can't be there because she's a very famous Broadway star. But I will be there. We'll get Zimmerman back. You know, he's going to join us for a cocktail. The hostess with the mostest. Oh, and girl, you're doing the deep dive this week. Yes, it's on set decoration. And we've said so many things. I mean...

I mean, let's get into that lobster cock. Let's do it. The lobster cock hanging on the wall. No, it's really fascinating information. I sat here wrapped. I was so interested to hear you. I love the not often used wrapped. I was wrapped. My attention was wrapped listening to you do it earlier because we recorded it earlier and it's so interesting. So that's going to be the deep dive at the end of the episode. Girls.

What are we talking about today? Today, as we said, is season one, episode 23, Blind Ambitions. It was written by R.J. Kaliri, otherwise known as Bub. And this is his only Golden Girls credit. Weird. Directed by Terry Hughes, and it originally aired on March 29th, 1986. You want to talk current events? Yeah, I got two. Two things going on in the world this week. Number one, the movie The Money Pit is number one at the box office this week. Because it is one of my favorite movies and Jillian Pensavalli's favorite movies. I did a mini-ditty. Oh, good. I did a mini-ditty.

A ditty right off the bat. A mini ditty right off the bat. A mini ditty. I just found a couple of like interesting facts about the movie because there wasn't any drama involved. So it was kind of interesting facts. So number one, did you know it's a remake? I did not know it was a remake. So it's a remake of a 1948 Cary Grant movie called Mr. Blanding's Builds His Dream House, which was based on a novel, which was based on a short story, which is based on some guy's real life experience. So it's a remake of a movie that's an adaptation of a novel that's an adaptation of a short story that's based on a real life event. I'm so confused. Yeah.

But sure. And also it's everyone's life story when they buy a house, a fixer-upper. I know. Like homeownership, you're never done. Also, Shelley Long was not the original choice for that role. It was originally offered to Kathleen Turner, who couldn't do it because she had to do Jewel of the Nile, which we know she didn't want to do with the sequel to Romancing the Stone. So there's dueling stories that she tried to use the money pit offer to get

out of doing The Jewel of the Nile, but also at the same time tried to use the offer of the money pit to increase her salary on The Jewel of the Nile. Get it, Kathleen Turner. That's the way to do it. In 2013, there was a pilot for a TV show based on the movie, but they said they couldn't find actors as good as Tom Hanks and Shelley Long, so they scrapped it. How about that? And lastly, Tom Hanks doesn't like the movie. He said in a 1989 interview, he said there are parts of the movie that are funny, but overall it doesn't really cut it. I don't agree with you, Tom Hanks. I'm with Tom. It's not my favorite.

interesting and i'm in the minority it's one of my best friends favorites it's your favorite but i love it it's so funny i should re-watch it it's very tom and jerry to me i love a movie where there's like people running around like stepping on rakes and it's so fun i used to say that wasn't my flavor of comedy of cartoon either oh interesting i used to want my mom would put me in front of it for hours yeah i guess it's an energy thing i'm a little manic well i also have two ditties too oh great we're not two ditties but no i also have i have two two two i have two two two

I have one more, but you tell me what you got. Oh, wait. You do your second one. My second. Okay. Well, this week, Estelle Getty got her first big national interview in People magazine. Oh, that's huge. Yeah. And so one of the funniest parts of the article is that she's talking about how the Golden Girls at the time was so new that people, when they met her in real life, would congratulate her on looking so good for an 80-year-old. Yeah. They thought she was 80, but she was really only 60. Right. Right.

You know, I want to ask Stan, too. He brought this up the other day in our party, our cocktail hour. Yeah. You know, poor Estelle was struggling with her lines already in season one and that they didn't know at the time that it was dementia. But the beginnings of dementia, they just thought she wasn't learning her lines. And one thing I want to know from him is maybe it's one of these books. I don't know, like

how was the treatment of other people to her because of that? Because that's quite a thing. If you think someone's not doing their job as opposed to a very serious illness, like how was she treated? That's a good question. One of the other things she wanted to do in the article was, quote, clear the air. She wanted to make it clear that no, she's not jealous because her co-stars get more attention. She doesn't think of herself as a scene stealer. And no, she doesn't think she's a rotten wife because her husband of

38 years, Arthur Gettleman, age 62, still lives in New York while tending to his retail glass business. Oh my God. I know. I love that he's doing that. I love that he's got his glass business in Queens. That's so sweet. She describes living in her two-bedroom apartment in Hollywood. She has a roommate. Oh,

Oh, my God. Her roommate is this guy, J. David Krasner, who appeared with her in the touring company of Torch Song Trilogy. Yes. And the interviewer asked her, since she'd made a career of playing a mother, did she enjoy motherhood herself? And she gives the most Sophia Petrillo answer. She says, no, I wouldn't claim I enjoyed it. It was the days of Dr. Spock and everything was so regimented. You stayed home, never left. Fear kept me from enjoying my children. It was such a chore being a mother in those days. Terrible, awful, no fun at all. Wow.

Tell us how you really feel, Estelle. But then her status quo is being like, she was a great mom. I don't know what's wrong with her. That's so sweet. So those are my two events for the week. I have two, too. Please tell me. All right. Well, on the New York Times bestseller list, March 29th, 1986, Robert Ludlam's The Bourne Supremacy was on there. I loved this.

book. Oh, amazing. And I was a kid reading all of these, The Bourne Identity, The Bourne Supremacy. You know, I just love to read and that was one of them. Yeah. And then for the Billboard chart, Prince and the Revolution's Kiss was ranked number five that week. What is that song? You don't know Kiss? How does it go? It's like, I'm helping!

And he's doing that skrelting that I love. Oh, damn. But not only does he skrilt, then he goes all the way down. I mean, it's so... Oh, that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you a big Prince fan? Am I? Oh, my. Oh, my God. Prince. He just made us all want to take off our clothes. Oh, my God. I love it. He's so sexy. Such musicianship. I am such a Prince fan. If you want to get my clothes off, play Prince. Well, now I know. Shall we get into it? Let's get into it.

All right. I just want to start by saying this is not my favorite episode. Okay. Okay. This is not my... Why? I love... We're going to have so much fun talking about it together. It just feels like a very special Golden Girls to me. I get it. I get it. This is one of the ones that I would usually skip. Okay. But it's kind of fun to watch it and take notes on it and really think about it. Yes. Because there's a lot of nuance. There's a lot of interesting things here. I understand the skipping only because you have to take...

deep breaths sometime when something taps one's fears. One has to take a break, you know. I do like this episode because, and if I'm repeating myself, Cheesecakes, I'm sorry, that's going to happen on these podcasts because we don't always remember. It's your age. You know what I mean? I need some ginkgo biloba. Me and Estelle Getty. So if this is a twofer, just bear with me. But

No one thinks about aging in place more than Jennifer Simard. Oh, yeah. I think I said this the other day. Like, you know, like, how close is the nurse hospital? How many stairs does the property have? And I do, in the back of my mind, think, geez, what if I go blind in my old age? What if I go deaf? And the thing that this episode makes me think of, besides the courage of anyone who has to do this, is, you know, it's like when you hear about children learning languages, that there's an age where the transition to learn languages as you get older becomes less easy. It's easier younger. Yes.

And I have to wonder, like, how difficult would it be to learn the skills as a blind person compared to when you're younger, you know? And so I just, the thoughts of that, the fear of that, it really taps into something that I think about a lot about aging. So this episode is about Rose's sister, Lily, who has lost her sight. Yeah. But a

few years ago, I was having very, I was having a lot of trouble with my eyes. And I was seeing specialists all the time. And I was getting very painful treatments. For a minute, we thought I was losing my sight. Jesus. Yeah. What was it? You know, we don't, we don't really know. It seems to have corrected itself and things are fine now. Did you have to take anything or drops? I had to get shots in my eye. That sounds fun. Actual shots in my eye. Of what? I can't remember what it was, like a steroid. A steroid, yeah. But it was, the most painful part wasn't the shot. They, she had to put

iodine in my eyes. That burns, yeah. That was excruciating. Did you have like high pressure in your eyes or anything? No. We didn't know what it was. We thought my retinas were just deteriorating. We thought it could be macular degeneration. Oh my God. Which is my guess is what happened to Lily in this episode because that is something that can come later in life and you can then lose your sight. Because like we don't really know what Lily has or how she lost her sight. Right. But that was my guess was that she had macular degeneration. Now how many cheesecakes have

skipped this episode of ours because it's all too horrible to contemplate. Shots in my eyes, you say. It's like, and what's the next one? What's the next one come out? So we open on the lanai and they're having a little cookout. And my very first note here is what on earth

What on earth is Dorothy wearing? You texted me. I had to take a picture and send it to you. She's wearing this blood red sort of like fancy blousey shirt with a plunging neckline, a black scarf that is just decorative. Yeah. And then she's wearing what looks to be a wool apron. Now, we'll see her in another scene wearing this apron. So it's not an apron. It's like a right. It's a wool vest. You know what I call it, Patrick? And Dorothy is wearing a giant question mark. I know.

Because I looked after I got your text. You know, I rewatched the episode. I'm like, actually, I don't know how to explain it to you. So for me, I'm calling it the giant question mark. Because the shirt itself is quite nice. It's a nice color on her. But you're right. I don't understand the scarf piece. The scarf is just decorative. I also don't understand how that's not getting in the way of the barbecue. I don't understand the choice. I know.

It's not even that I dislike it. I genuinely don't understand it. I know. And she's barbecuing. And I wrote, of course, Dorothy is the house meat smoker. Of course. Exactly right. She can plumb anything. That's right. She can now install a toilet, we learned. Exactly. Dorothy can do anything. She can do anything. Oh, Lily, honey, how do you like your steak? Oh, medium is fine. Why are we cooking outdoors? Ma, we're having a barbecue. Do you know what they call cooking meat over an open fire in Sicily? No, what? Poverty.

Gee, those steaks smell good. What do you know, Rose? You thought you could go out in the ocean and catch fish sticks. Now, she asked someone named Lily, whom we don't know yet, how she likes her steak. Sophia is not having the whole thing. Blanche is just sitting at the table like your mother, Patrick. I'm telling you, if we had a grill and outdoor space at my house, we wouldn't even need a kitchen.

Oh, really? You love it that much? Yeah. My older sister and her family used to do that. Like, all seasons, they had a back deck, and they would just, like, grill burgers and chicken. See, it's the cooking I don't mind. It's the cleaning of the grill that I hate. Yeah. All those food products just getting stuck to it. Yeah.

Yeah, you're right. That is kind of disgusting now that we're talking about it. It is disgusting now that we're talking about it. So don't invite me over for a barbecue. Anyway. So Rose enters. With a salad. Yeah. She says the steaks smell amazing. We get a great joke from Sophia. Good joke. But it's such a child's. I know. It's like when I was a little girl, I used to think that there were real people living in the radio. Do you know what I mean? You did. Little tiny. That's so funny. Like the Tweedlebugs from Sesame Street. Just doing shows in there for you. Just little tiny people live there. Yeah.

I just thought of that now. That's so funny. Right? In the mind of a child. Yeah. I mean, I was 17, but no, anyway. No.

We get a monologue from Blanche in a second, but before we get there, I just want to say that I love her outfit. She's wearing this like yellow jumper with this polka dot shirt over it with the upturned collar. Yeah. And I said the upturned collar is really giving me life. It's a clear intentional choice. She's always adorbs. She is. I love her. But in this story, she starts waxing poetic of barbecues of yore. Oh, I just love barbecues. We used to have the most wonderful ones back home. I can remember sitting out under a big old tree with the Darcy triplets.

Hank, Bo, and Dove, eating and talking and laughing. And then long towards the end of the meal, why, the boys always got into a fight over who was gonna get to lick the barbecue sauce from my fingertips and kiss away the little droplet of butter that always drizzled down my chin.

It's gotten awful hot out here. I looked up the name Dove. It used to be a common boy's name in England. I love it. Dove. Dove. Can you imagine? Dove Hines. Listen to me. I grew up being called Pat.

A fat, sort of androgynous-looking, young, effeminate gay boy in the era of Pat from Saturday Night Live. There comes Pat. Yes. Like, horrifying jokes you couldn't make. No. Imagine my name had been Dove. Right. I'm imagining it. Little gay, chubby Dove Hines. Oh, God.

Hey, you have your own emoji. I know. That's one positive, right? Well, because the thing is, like, Hank, Bo, Dove, those are sexy. If these boys are as sexy as Blanche is claiming, like, those are sexy names. Right. But you can't name the chubby, ugly little one with the glasses Dove. You just can't do it. Well, first of all, we don't know what Dove looks like. I'm picking some sort of Ichabod Crane poet. Okay.

Tall and skinny. He's a poet, I'm guessing. I don't know. Yeah, he's a poet. Poet. He's probably the gay one, if we're being honest. Well, she's hilarious because she's saying that the boys always used to fight over who got to lick the barbecue sauce from her fingertips and kiss away the little droplet of butter that always drizzled down her chin. It's so gross. It's so gross.

and she thinks it's hot. And she's like, ooh, that hot in here. I'll have to go get the lemonade. I mean, it's so gross. The way she says it. Kiss away the little drop, little butter that always drizzled down my chin. Butter. Like the butter dripping down my chin. Oh, God. It's so gross. It's so gross.

You all know, like, you know how gross your hands feel after barbecue? Like, you want to wet. A napkin won't do it. You want to cut your hands off. No, you all use 37 napkins. We all know this, right? But then, like, we all need a wet wipe. And there she is. And you know, I can just picture that's her impression. These boys were probably like, no blush, no.

Like, you know, they're just like fighting to be pushed away from those little fingers. She's shoving her fingers down. They're little sticky mitts. They're gagging on her hands. Her little sticky fucking fingers. Poor Dove. We got to revive Dove. Dove is in a full blackout. Okay, wait. So our first live show, whenever I'm free in five years, I'm going to put barbecue sauce on my fingers and make you suffer.

No, you know what we'll do? Instead of a dunking booth, we'll have a barbecue finger sucking booth. I love that we were both completely traumatized by that story. Or how about you'll have a butter on the chin booth. Cheesecakes to come lick the butter off your chin. Is there a market out there? You know that there is. Oh, 100%. Some freak will just be like, I'll do it. Get over here.

Oh, my God. Oh. So Blanche leaves. She's got to go get the lemonade. Right. We've now learned here that Rose and Lily, that Lily is Rose's sister. Yes. We learned here that and that they're both named after flowers. Yes. Isn't that lovely? I love that. So, you know, like Rose is just saying that like she loves the barbecue because it reminds her of like her childhood. Right. And then she says, remember when we used to cook outdoors all the time? Remember our camping trips, Lily? Yes. Oh, I sure do.

During the summer, our father would take the whole family on camping trips into the wilderness. Of course, it wasn't really the wilderness. He'd drive in circles for about 20 minutes and then end up in the woods just beyond the barn.

It was years before all the kids caught on to dad's trick. What do you mean just beyond the barn? What do you mean just beyond the barn? So cute. It's such a good Rose joke. Not since Jennifer just found out that people didn't live in the radio. But it

But it is funny and it makes you wonder about Rose's childhood. Like, we know that Rose is one of nine and it's like, was she always this, like, simple-minded and was she the only one that's like Lily? Because we're going to learn that Lily was like a pilot who, like, flew planes by herself. Yeah, they had different character, yeah. Yeah, so it's like, was Rose really this sort of, I don't want to call her dumb, but was she this sort of, like, naive? And she was the only one of the nine islands that was kind of like that? Probably. Yeah. But Blanche,

judges with a lemonade and we clearly see here that Lily is seeing impaired. It's been six months since she lost her sight. Here we are.

A nice fresh pitcher of ice cold lemonade. Pour me a cup, would you? I'm sweating like a horse. Here, Sophia, let me get it for you. That's okay, honey. I'll do it. No, now, Rose, please. I told you when I first arrived, I didn't want any special treatment. You know, when I was in college, I taught school part-time at one of those schools for the blind. It is really amazing what they can accomplish. Oh, I went to one of those schools for a little while. I think I'm just the kind of person that likes to get out there and do it.

In this scene, what I think is important to note is that Lily is being very confident about her abilities as a blind person, as a newly blind person. Yeah. And we'll see it through the first couple of scenes that she's sort of over correcting or she's sort of being... And here we agree, like she seems very competent. Very competent. It doesn't want any help. Yeah, yeah. You know, even there's a moment where Dorothy is saying that like she's complimenting

Lily on how well she's doing and that Dorothy's saying, you know, she taught part time at one of those schools for the blind. It's really amazing what they can accomplish now. Right. And Lily kind of rudely shuts her down. And she's like, oh, I tried one of those schools. I've never been so bored in my life. Yeah. What's really happening that we're not seeing is that Lily is kind of having a hard time really accepting her blindness or accepting the fact that the blindness has changed her experience in the world. But she does need some help. She does need to relearn how to do things.

Yeah. And that you have to, they don't say this implicitly, but, you know, that you have to allow yourself to be bad at something before you're good at something. And I imagine for such an accomplished woman, you know, she thought she could just muscle through. And I'm sure taking baby steps at a school was difficult.

I would imagine. It's interesting because I was saying a few years ago, I was having really bad problems with my eyes. And for a minute, my eye doctor and I was seeing specialists and we thought that I was maybe losing my sight. And I remember thinking, like, even when it was clear that I wasn't going to lose my sight, but my vision is a little bit blurry now, that, like, what if I had been a surgeon? You know, like, what if I had been something that, like, can you imagine me going to medical school? But

But like, you know, what have I been something that like, you know, my whole life, it would really affect my life the way that's affecting Lily. Like, yeah, it's a scary thing. It is a scary thing. As we said, she's an accomplished woman. And we know this because Rose has started to list off all of her accomplishments. Did you know that my sister Lily still holds the record at our high school for the 100 yard dash?

She served three terms on the city council, and she was the first woman in St. Olaf's to ever have a pilot's license. Oh, really? Well, we have something in common, Lily. I was the first woman in my hometown ever to have a pilot. Oh, good.

Blanche's bed is next to the X-15 at the Space and Aviation Museum. Dirty. It's very dirty. But it's, you know, Rose sort of overcompensating or reminding Lily, like, you're really good at things and the blindness is just a momentary blip. That's right. Dorothy follows up that funny dirty joke by saying Blanche's bed is next to the X-15 at the Space and Aviation Museum, which I just looked up because I was like, what is the X-15? It's a hypersonic rocket-powered aircraft. Oh! Like, very much like

Blanche herself. That's what I'm saying. That's why I like it. It was great. Exactly right. That's why it's funny. And Rose is saying to Lily, like, you know, do you want to go to this outdoor concert tonight? And Lily says she's not going anywhere because her favorite program, the way she says program, is on tonight. It's St. Elsewhere and she never misses it.

That's right. Starring Denzel Washington. Is that right? Starring also the wonderful actress Bonnie Bartlett. Cheesecakes, I'm going to tell you a little secret. So Bonnie Bartlett plays Barbara Thorndyke in season three, I think it is. Season three, yes. Whenever this comes out, whenever you hear it, Jen and I are interviewing her this afternoon. And Bonnie Bartlett, like, I got to tell you, Barbara Thorndyke lives rent-free in my brain. She is one of, to me, the most iconic actresses.

character, like guest character on the Golden Girls. But she won two Emmys for St. Elsewhere. Yeah. And one night, her and her husband, who was also on St. Elsewhere, both won Emmys for their work on St. Elsewhere. They won on the same night. Isn't that magical? I know. They were one of only two couples in history that that's ever happened to. That's incredible. I know. But once again, Lily is just, you know, even with the watching of the TV, she describes it as like, well, I don't really watch TV anymore. It's kind of like listening to a radio. I'm like, Lily would have loved podcasts. Yeah.

She would have. And also, like me, she loved the radio. The little people in the radio. I know. She loved it. It's just another way of her saying that she can do anything they all can do. That's right. And Sophia is saying that they don't exactly watch it either. She's bitching that they have a crummy TV. They only get two channels at once. Welcome to the B-line. That's right. The B-story line. That's right. Exactly. Exactly.

Because, right, they're complaining about the TV. Dorothy calls Sophie a mom. She says, we can't afford a new TV. We're using the household money to repair the roof and repave the driveway. To which I'm like, Dot, we know you can do it. We know you can do it. How is Dorothy not up on the roof every Saturday afternoon repairing the roof and paving the driveway? That's right. Here's my question. Yeah. What is this household money? Do you think that in this living situation they have like their rent plus common charges? Well, this is what I don't understand. Like, are

are you going to get some of the money at the sale of the house at the end? Because this is actually Blanche's responsibility. Blanche is like hoodwinks, you guys. If you are giving her like common charge money, you're not getting that money back, girls. Exactly. You know, good for you, Blanche. Yeah. But Rose comes up with the idea of selling the TV. Maybe we could sell our old TV and use the money towards one of those new stereo mops. Sell?

Honey, I don't think we could give it away. Oh, you'd be amazed at the things people will buy. When I moved from my house into the apartment, I had a garage sale and I made a lot of money. Of course, I probably would have made a lot more if I could tell a one from a 20. Girls, let's do that. Let's have a garage sale. Well, can we get in trouble having a garage sale? I mean, we're not actually selling a garage.

If it's a choice between the two, then let the blind one make change. Can you imagine ripping off a blind lady at a garage sale? I can imagine. Like, I hope that that fucker is burning in hell. Who would do that? I'm sure there's some fucker out there who has and will again. If you're listening to this podcast, you unsubscribe right now and you get yourself out of the Facebook group. James Bronski, you get yourself out of the Facebook group. Yeah, Steve Tipton. Go.

But Blanche loves the idea of a garage sale. That's right. Which I'm obsessed. Before I remembered what happens at the garage sale, I'm like, that's a great setting for this cast of characters. It is. What's going to go down at this garage sale? You know, I have a mini-ditty on Polly Holiday. Oh. The actress who plays Lily. Yeah. So Polly is here, and fun fact, in the previous episode, Mel's Diner is mentioned. Do you remember that? Oh, yeah. Yeah. And that is where her character Flo worked as a waitress on the TV show Alice. Oh.

Yeah. So Mel's Diner is a fictional diner in the show Alice. In the show Alice, correct. Ah, gotcha, okay. And this actress had the wonderful role of Flo, and she got much acclaim to that. Oh, wow. So in this episode, she's 48 years old, which is 15 years younger than Betty White. And you might have noticed she has a Southern accent, despite growing up in Minnesota. Oh, yeah.

Right. It's probably because she was born in Jasper, Alabama. Her catchphrase on the previously mentioned Alice was, kiss my grits. Oh, that was her? That was her, yeah. Oh, wow. It remains the most memorable line associated with the series Alice. Yeah. I think it's a little bit better than B's hello, hello, hello. I'm telling you. She tried. Hello, hello, hello.

Anyway, in 1973, Polly Holliday, and I love... That's a great name. I love the assonance and the alliteration of it. It's just so great. So she moved to New York City and appeared in Alice Childress' play Wedding Band at the Public Theater. More than a year later, she was cast in the Broadway hit All Over Town. And while working on All Over Town, she befriended the play's director,

Dustin Hoffman. No way! Who later worked with her on the 1976 movie All the President's Men. Wow! She was wonderful in that film. All right, so in 1976, she was cast in Alice. Her success as the brassy, cynical, gregarious Flo—she wore a red wig in that—reportedly did not endear her to the titular star of the show, Linda Lavin. Who I love, by the way. Linda Lavin's like a great Broadway star. The friction between the two actresses was such that Polly left for her own short-lived spinoff series, Flo—

Alice remained on the air for several more seasons, but Polly never returned even to make a guest appearance. Oh, that sucks. Yeah. In 1983, she joined the cast of the CBS television sitcom Private Benjamin as a temporary replacement for Eileen Brennan, who was the star of the show who was recovering from serious injuries after being struck by a car. Oh. I remember all of this. In addition to all the president's men, some notable roles were in Moon Over Peridot, Mrs. Doubtfire, The Parent Trap, and the 1984 hit Gremlins. Oh.

On Broadway, she appeared in revivals of Arsenic and Old Lace in 1986, which I have to tell you all is the first Broadway show I ever saw. You saw her in it? I saw her in it. It was my first Broadway show. Oh, wow. I have a horrific side tale that relates to this episode. Tell me everything. I have to beg people not to cancel me. I was a child. It's something I wouldn't do now. Yeah, I'm dying to know. And my mother's dead, so don't come for her. She was the most wonderful woman in the world. But this was my first Broadway show, and I was dying to have a good seat. I didn't want to waste the opportunity and all this stuff.

Oh, no. Did you, like, make a wish yet? So I said to my mother, we went up to the box office and I put on sunglasses. And I told my mother, Mom, we'll just tell them I need to sit in the front row because I'm visually impaired. And so we did. And we got front row center tickets.

Like a little fucking psychopath. You sociopath. You horrible human being. No, stop it. Stop it. You did one bad thing as a child. But you know what? Listen, but I paid for it because William Hickey spit all over me. I was in the front row and he knew what I did. I'm sure. He just spit all over me the whole time. He knew what you did. Look at her. Look at her with full vision. Look at that full vision.

Little psychopath. You liar. Anyway, so Polly Holiday was in the show that I saw. It was the first Broadway show I ever saw. Was that a terrible story? No. All right. I won't be canceled. No, no, no. All right. So several other shows. But you have to know she was nominated for a Tony Award for her portrayal of Big Mama in Cat on a Hot Tin Roof. Good for her. I love that play.

I'm going to end there. She's just wonderful, has had an amazing career. And the thing I love about Polly Holliday is while she can do comedy, you know, go watch her in All the President's Men. Yeah. She's just one of these actresses. She has that quality that Allison Janney has to me. Oh, yeah. Where she's just equally adept at drama and comedy and just has like an every woman quality that you're just so drawn to. And I just think she's wonderful. Oh, I love that. I love that you love Polly Holliday. Holliday.

Holiday magic is in the air, and DSW's got all the shoes to make your season extra merry. Believe, you've got parties to attend and lists to check twice, so DSW is taking care of the details, like gifts to make their eyes all aglow, styles that bring joy to your world, brands everyone wants, like UGG, Nike, Birkenstock, and more.

and deals to make your budget bright. Find the perfect shoes for you and yours at a DSW store near you or DSW.com.

True crime bullshit is now in its sixth season and Josh's 10-year investigation is paying off in spades. This is huge, Cheesecakes. Josh and his team have helped the FBI identify the first Israel Keyes kill kit found since Keyes' 2012 suicide.

And it's the only one ever identified without Keyes' help. And that kill kit literally opened up the FBI's vault, where they have over 70 maps found on Keyes' computer, maps they now believe lead to other kill kits and possible trophies and remains. Josh and his team have also found new evidence

evidence in the case, linking keys to multiple new victims. If you like deep dive investigative podcasts that are ethical and victim-centered, True Crime Bullshit is the podcast for you. Josh and his team are doing some wild stuff to get to the bottom of the keys case. They're data mining. They're searching lakes with side sonar scanning. They're working with some of the top minds in forensics, criminal psychology, genealogy, and now even the FBI. I have been listening to True Crime Bullshit from the beginning, and I'm

I can tell you it is an edge of your seat listen, and I cannot recommend it highly enough. So please introduce yourself or reintroduce yourself to True Crime Bullshit now wherever you get your podcasts. Or go to truecrimebullshit.com to subscribe and learn more about Josh's investigation into Israel Keyes. And I'll just say, if you don't know why this show is called True Crime Bullshit, you're going to find out in episode one. I love it, and I hope you check it out.

Well, next scene, we're in the living room. They're all kind of like, now they've all dragged the boxes of their crap out from under their beds so they can go through it all for the garage sale. This is where I have the note, Dorothy's still wearing the outfit from before, so the thing that I thought was a wool apron is not. It's just like a wool vest. It's Miami. Okay.

Miami. They're in there because they're going through items they're going to put up at the garage sale. Dorothy pulls out a doll. She's describing the doll as like her clothes are all worn. She smells of mothballs. Sophia passes through, thinks she's talking about her. Exactly. Will you look at this? I got this doll on my 10th birthday. Oh, I can't believe I've kept her all these years. Her hair's falling out. Her clothes are all worn. She smells of mothballs.

Hey, I may not be Aunt Margaret, but I'm still your mother. Can't believe I kept her all these years. Yeah.

You're going to be saying that about me in two years. Oh, two. Two weeks. Anyway. I can't believe I kept her all these weeks. I can't believe I kept him these two minutes. Okay. Okay. All right. Everyone pull over. Blanche comes out of her bedroom. She's clearly been going through her stuff in her room. She comes out of her room looking ridiculous. She's like, girls, look at this. Look at this. And the audience goes nuts. I have Patrick. She looks as young as I do.

Because she's wearing this outfit that she's going to claim that she wore to Woodstock, but it's like these jeans or whatever and this top. A little skirt. And a wig. But the wig, this is what I love. It's her real hair in front, so it's just like clipped in on the sides. Yeah, it's just a hairpiece around the sides and the back. Now, we're going to learn that she wore this to Woodstock. We'll get a whole thing on that in a minute because she didn't actually go to Woodstock. But the thing about

the wig is. Did she wear the wig as part of the outfit or is the wig from like today like in her like sex toy closet? Oh, I know. How is the wig part of the outfit that you found that you wore to Woodstock? I think you have to take a leap in logic so the show can happen because they had to make her look youthful to make the bit work. It doesn't make any sense.

make any sense that she would hold on to this wig because her hair obviously looked like that back then. It's funny because when you go to Hulu and you click on the episode, the picture of Blanche in this outfit and the wig is the image that you click on. And I'm like, what is going on? It freaks me out. If you look carefully, it's like a three-quarter wig, right? So what I mean by that, it's

It's her bangs in front, and then it kind of rests in the back and on the sides, and then the bows help cover up the wire or the clips. It looks crazy. So she's saying she wore this to Woodstock, and she says... You know, I remember wearing this outfit the night George took me to Woodstock.

Oh, what a night. I will never forget it. Listening to the music of Mr. Richie Havens and Mr. Bob Dylan and then making love in the mud. You went to Woodstock? Well, actually, it was the movie, but afterwards we did go home and make love in the mud. I guess the 60s were a confusing time for all of us, Flann.

I've got a mini ditty on Woodstock. Okay. Just something that I thought was kind of interesting. So Woodstock happened in August 1969. The Woodstock Music and Art Fair took place on a dairy farm in Bethel, New York, which is about an hour from actual Woodstock. Over half a million people came to a 600-acre farm to hear 32 acts, which were the leading and emerging performers of the time.

the time play over the course of four days was August 15th to August 18th. Now, Blanche said she was listening to Bob Dylan. Notably, Bob Dylan is one of the artists that did not appear at Woodstock. And it's weird, they say, that he wasn't there because he was a mainstay of the East Coast music scene and a vital force in the 1960s. But not only did he sit it out, he wasn't even really invited.

And they say his absence is made even weirder by the fact that he lived in Woodstock at the time, that he and his wife had settled down there to escape the chaos of New York City. Apparently, also, he's like such an old man about this whole thing. He did not want Woodstock to really even happen. He said he wondered if it would forever ruin the

peace and quiet he'd found and lead people to come knocking on his door, a thing which never happened. A few more interesting fun facts about Woodstock. Two people died during the festival. An 18-year-old named Richard Beiler, I think is how you say it. It was thought to be a drug overdose, but Time Magazine investigated and it seems like it was a heart problem brought on by hyperthermia, which is a condition where you get too hot. The other was a man who was run over by a tractor while they were cleaning up trash. He was in his sleeping bag, like horrified.

Oh, no. Yeah. Oh, God. I know. That's awful. I know.

I'm laughing at your reaction, not at the death of the man. It's claimed that two babies were born at Woodstock, but the San Diego Tribune investigated this in 2009 and didn't find anyone actually claiming that their mother brought them into the world during the show. I'm sure two babies were made at Woodstock. At least. At least. There's a famous picture of a couple taken at Woodstock that became iconic because it was used on the official album cover and the poster for the Woodstock movie. That couple stayed together until death literally did them part. So their names are Nick and Bobby Adler.

They had just started dating when they went to Woodstock. They got married in 1971, had two kids. They celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary in 2021. Didn't they recreate the photo? They did. Oh, yeah, I saw it. Yeah. And Bobby died in March 2023 at age 73. Oh, just. I know. And get this, Jimi Hendrix's iconic performance at Woodstock. Remember, like, you see it everywhere and he played the Star-Spangled Banner and the whole thing? That happened in, like, the middle of the morning on the last day. It was a Monday morning that that happened.

And they said it was scheduled that way because he had it in his contract that no performer could go on after him. Well. So he had to go last on Monday morning. There he goes. He wanted to be the anchor leg. Yeah. There you go. That's my mini Diddy on Woodstock. I love it. I love it. So they keep finding things, right? And Rose sees some candlesticks. And she's like, oh, I forgot I had these. They were my mother's. Oh, they'd be perfect.

Perfect for the alcove table. So here starts a segment where Lily offers to help. She wants to appear independent. And she's, you know, Rose is chiming in. Let me help you. Let me help you. Let me help you. And this is where we start to see it go south. Now, Rose, I'm fine. No, I'm just going to get your cane. No, I don't need that. Last night I memorized the layout for the whole house. Now, please stop treating me as if I'm totally helpless. I'm sorry. You know how I am. I guess I'm overprotective.

Girls, I'm feeling a little chilly. I think I'll go and get my sweater. Oh, no, I'll get that. I'll get that. Rose, for heaven's sakes, I can find my own way. I know you're trying to help, but if I could pilot my own plane cross-country during a storm, I can certainly find my way across the room.

And now you have to remember the living room, like you may have memorized the layout of the house, but it's cluttered with all of the boxes and all of the things. So the layout's changed. And also we also know is the cheesecakes. Girl, we can't figure out the layout of the house. You're not going to be able to do it. But anyway, that's just a side note.

Then, so she goes and puts the candlesticks at the alcove table. So then she turns and she's like, I'm going to go get my sweater. And then all of the women make a mad dash to move all the boxes and all the clutter out of her way. As Lily is literally like telling them they're being ridiculous. And she used to fly airplanes across the United States in storms all by herself. And she's basically just saying like, stop treating me as though I'm helpless. Exactly. So it's the next day and Lily is making bacon. Good choice, Lily. I know. On the stove. That looked delicious. It did look delicious. But a grease fire starts. So this scene...

lives rent free in my head. Yeah. I think about this scene all the time because now there's a fire. Yeah. It's like grease fire and she senses it and she starts screaming for Rose to help because like, oh my God, you're a blind person. What do you do? Right. And Blanche and Rose rush in and Blanche is sweet. She says, oh wait, she's like, get over there, darling. And you know, it's all right. It's

Looks like she's never going to be able to deploy the fire extinguisher, right? I have this big note here that she pulls out the fire extinguisher. It's a full, it's like a fire extinguisher the size that you would see like in a high school. She struggles with it, but she pulls the pin out. She uses a fire extinguisher to put out this fire. Yeah. And I just thought if that's what it takes, we would all be dead if it were my house. Do you not have one in the kitchen? We have one, but I would have no idea how to use it. I have one in the kitchen. You do? You know what? I know. Have you ever

Have you ever deployed a fire extinguisher? Yes. Hope is not a plan. In one of my apartments in the city, I had a... Hope is not a plan. Hope is not a plan. It's my favorite phrase. Oh, my God. So anyway, I had this toaster oven. Yeah. And everyone who has a toaster oven, please be careful. These little bitches like to get it lit on fire. So, some cheese toast in there. Okay. All of a sudden. So anyway...

I'm making my cheese toast. Making my cheese toast, like you do. And all of a sudden, that thing just bursts into flames and it catches the cabinets above. And I'm telling you, those cabinets were on fire in three seconds. And I grabbed the fire extinguisher. I had already studied how to do it. And you pull the thing and the pan. Oh, my God. And I was actually nervous that one wouldn't be enough. That's how quickly the cabinets lit on fire. And

Yes, it's scary in a house, but when you're in an apartment building and responsible for other lives, too. I mean, Jesus. That is the most harrowing story I have ever heard. Yeah. Get your fire extinguisher. You know what else I did? What? I have one of those ladders. I need a break. No, I have one of those ladders that you can throw out an apartment window. Oh, my God.

I'm a park ranger. I know. Oh, my God. I thought about getting those, too. You should. If you're on a high floor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes ladders won't work. But if you're on a low enough floor, get yourself a ladder. You are prepared for any situation. If I'm in a car that goes off a bridge, I want you in the passenger seat. No, I have to say, you do want me on your zombie apocalypse team. Totally. Not me. Because the second that she's caught on fire. Ah!

I would have been out of there. I cannot tell you how fast I would have been out of there. You were that friend of mine that pushed me in front of him at the haunted house. Yes. That's you. When I tell you I would pick up my 10-year-old daughter and use her as a human shield in a haunted house, I am not joking. You're like, Daisy! Daisy, get the fire extinguisher! Daddy's gonna die!

From the hallway, I'd be screaming that. I know. From the hallway. Oh, my God. So Blanche is... Let me repeat this because it's important for what's coming up. Yeah. Blanche is being soothing here and lovely. Well, until she isn't. That's what I'm saying. In the crisis, she's saying, it's all right. It's all right. She's putting it out. There we go. It's all right. Yes. Dorothy rushes in. No, I love Dorothy's acting in this moment. Is everyone okay? She's doing calm frantic. Yes. Which is a level I don't have. No, no, you don't. I would... Is everyone okay? Okay.

And Rose is saying, everyone's fine. We just had a little accident. And I said, now Blanche. Here we go. Here we go. Because Blanche is very upset. Well, we didn't have a little accident. Lily had a little accident. Blanche, please. I'm sorry. I guess I'm not used to your stove. Maybe you shouldn't have been cooking on it, darling. Well, somebody could have gotten hurt. I said I was sorry. It was an accident.

Let's be fair. It could have happened to any one of you. Yeah, and she splits that line in half. Like, she's saying that to Lily and, you know, Rose keeps grabbing her. And so she does turn to Rose and say, look, somebody could have gotten hurt. And she does have a point. Yeah, and it's her house. I understand. I feel like she just realized that her, like, fire insurance has lapsed or something. I mean, listen, we've already said the girls have to pay for the roof, the driveway.

Exactly. She's like, listen, if you bitches pay me for some more fire insurance, it's fine. Exactly. But until then, I'm going to be pissed. But I just have always thought that Blanche was a little hard on Lily in this moment, you know? And Lily's just saying, you know, she's sorry. She's very embarrassed. She's, you know, trying to find her way out of the kitchen. She just wants to get the hell out of there. Right. And she leaves. But before she leaves, there could be an argument made that she's also not really owning her stuff here, right? Because she says it was an accident. Could have happened to any one of you. True. But

Also, any one of them knows where the fire extinguisher is just a as a houseguest. But B, because you couldn't see where the fire extinguisher was and you didn't know where it was, you know, you you were rightly so calling for your sister. Yeah. And my God, what if you were there alone? I think that this is meant to show that the amount of confidence that Lily has been exhibiting up till now has just been bravado. It's been her denial.

Yeah. It's a defense mechanism. Yeah. That she thinks she can't. She knows where everything is. She knows the house. She's not going to fall over. She's not going to hurt herself. And now all of a sudden her like the reality has been exposed, which is like Lily can't now not understand or not see that like she does need some help. And I have a question here, Patrick. I says Lily exits. I say, how long is she staying? Two weeks. They all stay for two weeks. They all stay too long. That's right. Too long. But anyway, the girls start to talk turkey to Rose. Rose, Lily can't go on like this. You have to do something.

I think you girls are overreacting. I mean, it was just a little grease fire. No harm done. This time? What if nobody had been home? Rose, it's not just the fire. What do you expect me to do? There's nothing you can do, Rose. She has to learn to do things for herself. Honey, maybe she ought to go back to that school. Well, you heard her. That's not for her. She's a very independent person. No, she's not, Rose.

Not till she learns to be independent as a blind person. And then I just have like Dorothy said, the most important thing in the scene, which is like she's not independent, Rose, until she learns how to be independent as a blind person. Yeah, there's a difference between those two things. Yes.

Being independent and being independent as a blind person. And again, it's Dorothy and Blanche telling it to Rose like it is. Yeah. And Rose does go on a little emotional journey of denial and then she kind of gets mad. Yeah. And then she realizes it. And by the end, she has tears in her eyes. She does. She's like, I'll talk to her. And I think the way she delivered that was beautiful. Yeah. Because she's kind of like, you're right. But at the same time, I have no control over this other adult human. Right. So Rose goes to their shared bedroom at this point. Now, can we talk about this for a second? Yeah.

I'm really obsessed with the seating area in Rose's bedroom. Listen, if you remember when we had the episode about how they became roommates, she and Dorothy had to flip a coin for that room. Oh, is that right? Yes, because Blanche promised it to both of them because ostensibly it's the better room. Oh, funny. And I was imagining...

Like, she's got a whole seating area in there. She can hang out in her room all day. I have that note later for when Sophia's trying to get her little mitts on the room. Yes. It's a great room. It's a great room. Fresh cut flowers on the table in the seating area in Rose's room. She's got a sitting room. She does. It's fabulous. A receiving room. A receiving room.

Oh, my God. It's really great. So she goes in there and Lily is pulling a dress out of the closet. We'll get to that in a minute. You know, Lily is defensive. She's saying, I'm fine. You know, I've been having accidents all my life. And Rose is saying she worries about her. And Lily's giving Rose shit, saying, like, you worry about everything. You're a worrier. And we've seen it. We saw it with Alma. You know, this is who she is for people she cares about, people she loves in her family. And it comes with, like, the dim-wittedness, I feel like.

You know, what God didn't give her in brains, he gave her in heart. This is where I see myself in Rose. Am I the smartest knife in the toolbox? No. But am I a lover? Absolutely. So here we get to some really good writing, I think. So Rose is saying like, yes, I'm a worrier. But like this time, I think I really do have a reason to worry about you because you're trying to do too much by yourself.

Right. And Lily starts to get angry saying, you know, she's never been one to depend on other people. This is like where her mood changes from sort of like, oh, everything's fine to like beginning to acknowledge that like shit's going down. Right. And Rose is not letting it up and telling her that it's different. And I have heard that this next session, oof, the writing, I said, RJ, Bob. Yeah. It's really good to have your sight taken away as one thing, but to have your memories taken away is something else entirely. And so this is where the dress comes in that Patrick mentioned. Do you see this dress, Rose? It's my favorite.

It's awfully pretty. It's my favorite because it's the only one I can clearly remember. I remember what it looks like, and I remember what it looks like on me. And because of that, I wear it all the time. You will adjust. I don't want to adjust. I want to be the person that I used to be.

I have to say, do you ever think about that with someone who's passed? I think about that with my mother. This is the 10 year anniversary of her death coming up in October. My biggest fear with my grief now, which has gotten so much better than it was in the beginning. However, I'm so afraid to forget her.

To forget her face, to forget her laugh. Like, you know, those people who suffer through themselves or family members with dementia. To lose your memories is a special kind of thievery. It's just awful. You know, I've been so lucky in my life that I haven't had anything

anybody really, really close to me die yet. Okay. You know, like I didn't have grandparents growing up or aunts and uncles even like, you know, my mom's wife died maybe 10 years ago, but you know, she came into my mom's life long after I was long gone. So I loved her, but I didn't really know her that well. But I worry about it like with Daisy, like God forbid if something should happen with Daisy and then you forget what the laugh sounds like, or you forget, you know, you can't just instantly conjure the face. And that is, I think, such a

human fear. And it hasn't happened to me. And also when they visit you in dreams, it's the beautiful thing. Yes. The pain of her losing the memory of that. Of everything but this one dress. I just thought the psychology behind his writing here was just spectacular. Yeah. And it continues to kind of the crux of the whole thing is when Rose is saying like, but you have to face the truth. You need help. Now you can deal with it, but you can't

I can't do it all by yourself. All my life, I've done everything I wanted to do. Nothing's ever stood in my way before. For the past six months, that's how I've been trying to deal with everything. I thought that I could overcome this thing by myself. I guess that deep down inside, I thought I could make it go away. But I can't. Every morning when I wake up, it's still there. And that terrifies me.

Rose, I do need your help. That's why I came to Miami. And she asked her sister straight out, I need your help. That's why I came to Miami to ask you to come home with me. And it gets really emotional. She's like, oh, Rose, please come home with me. I can't make it by myself. I'm going to cry. Yeah. And Rose is like, oh, honey. And they cry in tears together. And that's how the scene ends. I mean, it's very natural how human. Of course, that's part of this journey. Yeah.

Yeah, of course. And it's like, you know, the Lily from like 20 minutes ago where she's like finding her way around the living room and, you know, like everything was fine. It's such a major change that like this is clearly was what she was coming here to do. I just had a thought now. You could make an argument that she's also trying to show how independent she is

so that Rose might feel more comfortable to come live with her. Uh-huh. Totally. Like, it won't be so bad. Look, look what I can do. Right. And, you know, and it's such an unfair question because it's like Rose is like finally, you know, her husband only died five years ago or whatever it was. And like, she's finally resettled. And we learned last episode, she had to pick her whole life back up

And put herself back together after her husband died. And, you know, now she's got this life. And, like, her sister wants her to go live with her in Chicago. I don't know that I see it as unfair. I don't even know if you see it as unfair. But I see it as human. Yeah. I see it as such a human question. I would never.

Really? I would never. You do see it as unfair. I do. I really do. It's like Rose is so happy. These are her golden years. She's got this great life. I agree with you. I see that point. I'm just saying that in the part of Lily's emotional processing of what's happened to her, this part of the emotional process seems very natural and human to me. Yeah. That's all I mean. I think for me, and again, it's like so the show can happen, but it's like, well, Lily, we'll just move you down to Miami. You know what I mean? Like, then Rose gets to keep her life. What a great option.

That's a good idea, actually. Did I solve it? We don't even need to do the rest of the episode. I solved it. Okay, Cheesecakes, join the Facebook group.

Whatever the adventure, there's a BMW engineered to take it on. The X3 delivers a striking design with agile performance. The 100% electric i4 packed with pure electric energy. Or the plug-in hybrid X5, an impressive versatile SUV granting full control on every journey. Choose what powers your next adventure during the BMW Road Home Sales Event. BMW, the ultimate driving machine.

Visit the Valley BMW Center today for attractive lease and finance offers. Next scene, we're in the kitchen. I love this as a writing technique where we come in, we, the audience, comes in mid-conversation. Rose has been filling in Blanche and Dorothy on what, you know, what the conversation was. And then she's going to do it. She's going to go to Chicago with Lily. And I have the note here that Dorothy doesn't seem to care that much. Dorothy's

not heartbroken about the idea of Rose moving to Chicago. Oh my God. Dorothy is really engaging in the conversation and she has thoughts, but it's not like when Sophia was going to leave and everybody was like devastated. Well, maybe she's not voicing it, but she's probably thinking, I'm finally going to get that fucking bedroom. One coin toss.

kept me from Nirvana. You know, and Rose is just saying it would be the easiest thing for me to do, you know, and Dorothy is saying you're not helping her by moving there and letting her fall apart and then just do everything for her. And you offering to be her nursemaid. Yeah. Yeah. Rose is saying I don't have a choice here.

all my life, Lily took care of me. She's now asking me to return the favor. I'm obligated. I have to go do this. Right. And Dorothy thinks she's doing it out of guilt. You know, Dorothy says it seems like part of the reason you're going is out of guilt. And now we get this kind of crazy monologue from Blanche about her impression of guilt and why it's a terrible thing to do. Just about the time that George and I were getting serious, he was shipped off to Korea. Well, I wanted to do my part for the war effort, so I took a job in a factory that made canteens. I

figured that one of the canteens that I had riveted would somehow find its way to George and his lips would drink from the galvanized spout I had so lovingly fashioned. Lynch, that's a beautiful reason to take that job. Well, that wasn't the only reason. That factory also had a comprehensive dental plan and I was in desperate need of a bridge and two crowns.

Imagine Blanche Devereaux working like the line, like Laverne and Shirley making canteens. But you know, she just took care to make herself look so cute in her little outfits with her blue denim and her little kerchief and her hair. Rose of the Riveter, but hot. But hot. Hot Rose of the Riveter, yeah. So, and then it continues from there.

While I was working on that assembly line, I met a young man named Andrew Beendorf. Oh, it was just a platonic thing. We just went out to the movies and dinner. But when George came home on leave, he was furious. He accused me unjustly of infidelity while he was off fighting in some foreign land, some God forsaken land where people didn't even believe in Jesus.

And he forbade me ever to see Andrew again. So you lost a good friend just because George made you feel guilty about it. That's right. I lost a good friend and a wonderful companion and an excellent lover. That's right. I lost a good friend and a wonderful companion and an excellent lover. And it just hangs there for a second. I am cackling. And Rose says, excellent lover? Yeah.

I said excellent lover? Oh, no. I meant excellent riveter. She was totally Beendorffing Beendorff. That's right. No question. And Dorothy says, I can understand how you could confuse the two. Oh, my God. It's so good. It's such good writing. So Sophia enters. Throwing down some truths, I have. Throwing down...

Totally. She says she was just talking to Lily, finds out that Rose is moving to Chicago. Rose says, that's right. Sophia thinks it's a bad idea, but she's fine with it because she wants Rose's room. Right. I love that she also says, like, you can ruin your life and hers. Like, she just doesn't mince words at all. We get a really good story here because the story that Dorothy is about to tell is going to prove her point about how Rose going to live and, like, basically just, like, wait and on and take care of Lily is not going to help her because she has experience because of when her mom had the stroke. Yeah.

Sophia says, tell her what you did. And Dorothy says, you were really sick, Ma. You know, in the beginning, she couldn't walk. She couldn't talk. She couldn't even feed herself. All I could do was sit and feel sorry for myself, which is what I did all the time. But you got better. Yeah, because she stopped coddling me. She screamed. She hollered day and night. She made me do my therapy. She forced me to rebuild my life because she knew I could. And for that, I'll always be grateful. Thanks, Ma.

I only have one question. Now that I'm better, why do you still scream and holler at me? It's a powerful anecdote about like, Lily is fine. You know what I mean? Like she's blind and that sucks. And she probably needs mental health services as much as she needs like services, like learning how to redo things or whatever. Like the depression, I'm sure when I was afraid, I was like,

I was losing my sight. I remember like going to my therapy twice a week. Yeah. And being like, I don't know what's going to happen. I hope you'll pardon these either or questions, but I legitimately have thought about these my entire life. Like if you had a choice between these three things, like drowning or fire. Oh God. Knife or gun. Oh. Blind or deaf. It's dark in there. Listen, I never said it was a rose garden in here, but it's the truth. Oh my God.

Oh, my God. Yeah. If you had to lose one of your senses, like, I remember thinking— Lose a smell. I'd say smell. For sure. But if it's sight or hearing— But if it's sight or hearing, I'd say— Hearing. Hearing. No question. Hearing. Because if you're blind, you feel— Like, I imagine what it would be like to be Helen Keller, the hero Helen Keller, who could never hear or see, and how terrifying that would be for me. Yeah. And for me, like, I need to be able to feel a part of— I'm in such an extrovert—

extrovert. I need to be able to see faces. And, you know, so I understand it's very scary. But I'm with Dorothy and Sophia, like, you know, be there for her, visit her, tell her that you love her, help her get the services that she needs. But going and living with her and letting her just fall apart, that's not doing her any favors. And on the Golden Girls, like they usually are experts in, this is no exception. So they have a serious topic, but they end it with something funny. So Sophia, you know, is grateful to her daughter. And Sophia comes back with, I only have one question. Now that I'm better, why do you

will scream and holler at me. And even Dorothy finds that funny. The funny thing about that is she doesn't. You're the mean one, Sophia. You're the mean one. So it's the next scene. We're finally at the garage sale, which I'm so excited about. Yeah, I love a garage sale. When I was a kid, my dad used to take us yard saling

every weekend. And then the only thing that sucks about that is when you end up going to school in clothes that were owned by your classmates and you didn't know it. That happened to me. Oh, I hear that. Can you imagine? We were so poor that we couldn't like go to Macy's. Like we went clothes shopping at yard sales. Yeah. And one time I was wearing this other kid's overalls and it had his name in it. It was pretty bad. That's hard. If you're laughing, Cheesecake, that's totally fine. No, but I love you. And look at

Look at you. Look what you've done with your life. Oh, well, thank you, my love. I'm proud of you. So we're at the garage sale. Now, what I love about the garage sale is that it's on the lanai. Like, they have a front yard and they have a garage. And they have a deck. Did you notice that? Totally. But how much would I hate that deck just exposed to the street? But I'm like, the people have

I guess we now know that you can enter the lanai from the street because people have to. I noticed that before. Like, that's where that gate is. Yes. Which, again, I wouldn't want Blanche's bedroom with just a glass sliding door. I know. It's scary. You know me. Always prepared. My God. My God. What exists under your mattress, I can only imagine. Oh, well, nunchucks. Yeah.

So the garage sale is not going well because none of the women actually want to sell any of the stuff that they have. Right. And they're throwing people out for presuming to try to buy the things at the garage sale. That's right. They're too sentimental about everything and they've overpriced everything. Anyone who's ever thrown a garage sale knows you really have to throw away everything at bargain basement prices. I used to love throwing a garage sale. Oh, yeah. Make 10 bucks or whatever. Oh, it's just fun. So the first thing is Sophia with a glass picture. Sophia thinks the lady's trying to lowball her. Sophia throws her out. Dorothy is horrified.

How much? Two bucks. Get wild. Treat yourself. Uh, give you a dollar fifty. What does this look like, Baghdad? Get the hell out of here!

That's no way to sell things. Hey, go to Neiman Marcus sometimes, see if they treat you any better. Next, Blanche can't let go of her Elvis Presley salt and pepper shakers. Right. I'll give you a dollar for these Elvis Presley salt and pepper shakers. A dollar? I will have you know the day I bought these salt and pepper shakers at the Graceland gift shop, I thought I saw the king himself walk by eating a giant chili cheeseburger and drinking a 36 ounce Dr. Pepper.

Turned out it was an impersonator, but these are still very special mementos. And parting with them is an extremely painful sacrifice on my part. Buck and a quarter.

And then Rose comes in with Mr. Longfellow, which is a teddy bear. Yeah. So this is the Rose that makes me crazy because she's chasing some lady out who's trying to buy this teddy bear. And Rose has a little teddy bear voice that she does for Mr. Longfellow. And it makes me hate her. Oh, really? Yeah. It's the kind of thing that if I lived with a person who made voices like that, I would have to move out or they would. Do you hate Betty White for doing it? A little. A little bit? Okay. Do you want me to do it for you right now? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mr. Longfellow got him by mistake. He is not for sale. Isn't that right, Mr. Longfellow? Yes, it is, Rose. Yes, it is, Rose. I hate it so much. Yes, it is, Rose. And somebody told me once that when you don't like people, it's because they have pieces to their personality or who they are that remind you of the things you don't like about yourself. And I don't know, am I annoying like that? Because Rose is really on my nerves in this episode. Yes.

I think you froze. I'm not sure what's going on over there. I'm going to take the fifth. Should we just move on? We should just move on. So the next person that can't let go is Dorothy. And this is in regards to a hockey stick. Rose, in my opinion, it is time to say bye bye to Mr. Longfellow and Elvis. I mean, what's the use of having a garage sale if we can't park with anything? How much for this hockey stick? Eleven hundred dollars. What?

Dorothy. This isn't an ordinary hockey stick. Bobby, I'll use this. This is a piece of history. It's a piece of junk. And the price tag says $4. $4.50. I'll take it. $1,100.

She just turns her head. It reminds me, during the pandemic, I made this, I had this video series I would do called Q-Tips with Jen. Oh. Q-Tips with Jen, like quarantine tips. Love. And I did this thing where I was living in the country and so I had these, I gathered a bunch of pine cones. Yeah. They were all around. And there's this fun thing you can do, like melting crayons and dipping...

So fire starters. You dip pine cones into melted wax crayons. Okay. So it's attractive and it can help start your fire quickly. But I remember... This is the weirdest country bumpkin thing I've ever heard. Oh, just, you know, that's me. I'm a nerd. Anyway, but my favorite line in my video, and if you don't have pine cones, you can write to me and I will send you some for $10,000. Yeah.

$10,000. For a fresh pine cone. Pine cone. So eventually they settle on a price of $450,000 and Dorothy's like, ah, let me take you in the house and get that special wax I have to use on it. They go inside and Rose and Blanche are like, we're not buying this. They go inside to see Dorothy haggling with the kid. And like struggling back and forth like a sword. Yeah, totally right. And Dorothy ends up paying this kid $25 to get back the hockey sticks.

She sold to him for four. By the way, I have a little ditty on that hockey player she spoke of. Oh, who is it? I grew up in a hockey rink, so I had to do it. His name is Bobby Hall. Okay. And he was a Canadian professional ice hockey player, widely regarded as one of the greatest players of all time. And with his blonde hair, skating speed, end-to-end rushes, and ability to shoot the puck at very high velocity, this all earned him the nickname, the Golden Jet. No. Yeah.

By the way, he was born in 1939. He did pass away just recently in 2023. But during his 23-year playing career from 1957 to 1980, he played in both the NHL and the World Hockey Association with the Chicago Blackhawks, Winnipeg Jets, and Hartford Whalers. He was elected to the Hockey Hall of Fame in 1983, the Ontario Sports Hall of Fame in 1997, and received the Wayne Gretzky International Award in 2003. And in 2017...

And in 2017, Hall was named one of the 100 greatest NHL players in history. And that's my mini-diddy. And by the way, I typed mini-diddy and that's where I coined it, mini-diddy. And you're welcome. You can use that phrase from now on. Thanks for falling asleep during my mini-diddy. It's not a comment on you. It's a comment on the sports. But you know, my brothers both played hockey. New England girl. Of course, I was going to be in the hockey rink supporting them. But I love that Dorothy, of course, loves hockey. It was

so rude of me to pretend to fall asleep during your mini-dinning. No, it was so funny. Oh, good. Okay. I'm sure you weren't alone. I'm sure several cheesecakes were like, when is it going to end? I know. I know. So anyway, they decide they've got to face the facts. They don't want to have the garage sale. They don't want to sell any of their stuff. We might just as well call this whole garage sale off. And kiss our new TV goodbye.

Isn't that right, Mr. Longfellow? Yes, it is. Please! It's off camera, and it makes me wonder if it was not intended to be this big, because as she's doing the voice, Dorothy is me, and Dorothy goes, please! Like, she screams it so loud that it startled even me, and then the camera cuts back to her, but it feels like she wasn't on camera for that moment. Like, they didn't get her doing it. Right. But it was such a big reaction. It was so...

It was so funny to me. And it's one of those moments we were talking about last time. We're like, how much of this is Dorothy and how much is Bea Arthur? I mean, I feel like Bea Arthur feels about Betty White the way I feel about Rose. I think so. And it was just like the angry scream that came from within my soul. I felt so seen. So Dorothy has this idea to get the TV. They can each put like $20 down and then pay the rest off overtime.

Is that layaway? What is that? Yeah, like, that's what they called it. And yeah, it's like layaway. But you get to leave with the TV? Like, you get to pay $60 or whatever? So you put down a down payment. Uh-huh. And then they sort of charge the rest and you pay it over time. Over time. Like a credit card, yeah. But I love that she describes the idea as a little strange. Yes. A little bizarre. Right. Slightly off the wall. I was like, wait a second. But it just might work. And I was like, that's an insane idea. I know.

That they pool their resources. That's a normal idea. Like, I don't know why she thought it was so crazy. I think it was supposed to be a joke that maybe just didn't really land. Oh. Yeah. So Dorothy and Blanche go off to shut down the garage sale. Yeah. And probably very unceremoniously kick everybody out. Probably. She's got the hockey stick and she's, you know. Oh, exactly. So Blanche and Dorothy are gone. Lily enters and like suddenly Lily needs a lot of help.

Rose? Yes, Lily. Could you help me get to the sofa, please? Oh, sure, honey. Here you go. You're not getting tired of me yet, are you? Oh, don't be silly. Could you please get me a glass of water? Lily, you've been here a week now. You know where the kitchen is. Well, I figured the way I've been crashing into everything, you'd rather get it. Maybe you should get your drink of water yourself.

I thought you said you'd look after me, Rose. Lily, if you can't even get yourself a drink of water, you're helpless. And that scares me. How do you think I feel? Rose has a really good line. She says, if you can't even get yourself a drink of water, you're helpless. And that scares me. Yeah. And I like took a breath when she said helpless. Like that, like the feeling, like Lily leaning into the helplessness. Yeah. Like if I had gone blind, like absolutely not was I going to be helpless.

Yeah. Rose is doing very gently, I might add, very tough love. Yes. And Lily is getting very defensive. Yes. You know, and understandably so. She's terrified and she can see what's happening here. And she's not reacting well to this honest and healthy communication, frankly. And she's sad. Like, there's just like, it would be very sad. And Rose is saying you need professional help more than I, your sister, can give you. Right. And this is where Lily just says like, oh my God, you're not going to come back to Chicago with me, are you? Right.

of like in real life, you know, what is she, 15 years older than the actress playing it? Like, what if Rose dies? Like, she needs to learn some skills. Like, Rose, you're asking Rose to give up her life, not only her life in Miami, but her life in Chicago when, like, she's just got to wait on you hand and foot? Correct. Like, they'd be the baby Jane sisters. Exactly. Exactly. But, ah, Rose! Yes, yes. So, you know, it escalates, you know, and words are said. How can you turn your back on your own sister? I'm not trying to.

I'm not turning my back on you. I love you. I'm just trying to do what I think is best for you. What you think is best? What do you know about being blind? Oh, Lily, this is very painful for me. Please don't make it any harder than it already is. I'm sorry, Rose. I'm sorry.

I promise I won't ever ask you for anything again. And Lily gets up to exit and says she'll never ask Rose for anything ever again. Stumbles into a plant and exits. Sorry to laugh. I'm laughing at you laughing. I know. Because it's like, in case you didn't know, I'm struggling. Now, two months later, we find out. We are in the living room. Rose wearing a fetching red suit. I have the

same note. She's wearing this red power suit. You go, Rose. Chicago red. Rose is saying goodbye to the girls. Presumably it's a driver who's helping her. He's carting her luggage out to the car. Yes. And we find out she's off to visit her sister. Yeah. And she comes back a hundred times. It's actually kind of reminiscent of the

final moment of the series. When we get there, you understand I'm going to be such a wreck. Oh, I know. I have a really hard time watching the final episodes of series. Like it really, it's very hard for me. I agree. I agree. But she has a lot of anxiety is basically what this in and out is showing. She's coming and going and coming and going. False exit after false exit. But finally she's gone.

My final thought on when she, like, leaves the final time, I just have this note that, like, there's a part of Dorothy that hopes she doesn't come back. Like, there's a part of Dorothy... Because, like, Rose is going for a week and she's going to come back and she keeps saying, like, I'm not going to stay. I'm going to be firm. There's a part of Dorothy that hopes she doesn't come back. Maybe. So we get...

Chicago. We're at the airport. Rose is like a tourist in New York City, just stopping at the top of the subway stairs. No offense, everyone, but like on the sidewalk, pull over to the side. You don't stop in the center. It's not a side stand. It's a sidewalk. You know, these things matter. And she's oblivious to a plane full of people behind her. It makes me insane. Somebody who travels as much as I do, there are times that I'm on planes like four or five times a month. Rose, we learn like they're on the jet bridge, right? Like they're leaving. All the people...

behind her, Rose stops to speak to the flight attendant. Now no one else can leave. That's right. Thank you for flying near Florida. I hope you enjoyed your flight. Oh, I certainly did. And I want to especially thank you for that pillow from first class. There's so much fluffier. Oh, you're welcome. But that was Julie. I'm the one that got you the Dramamine and the packs of Smokehouse Almond. Fine.

Can I bother you one more time? Ten packs is all I can give you. I told you that on the plane. I just want to know which way to the baggage plane. Oh, thank you. And thanks again for the wings.

The extras are not acting annoyed. They're just acting as though like they're just waiting for this nice old lady to finish her conversation. I am screaming. I'm like, move! Step aside! Exactly. And she doesn't, in Rose's fashion, she doesn't know she's being difficult. They never do, Jen. They never do. She's just excited. Like, it's her first airplane ride. Yeah, yeah. But she got a lot of extras from first class. Right. We find out

10 packs of Smokehouse almonds. I know. That's her limit. Too many. Yeah. Finally, Rose continues on and we hear Lily. So she's like looking for baggage claim because she's going to Lily's house. But Lily has surprised her and shown up to the airport to receive her. And Rose says, did you come all this way by yourself? And we learned that she has a seeing eye dog. Lily says, no, I came with Becky, a gorgeous German shepherd. So,

I always love seeing Betty White in a scene with animals because you know how much she loves animals. And she gives the dog a little pet, which you're not supposed to do. You don't pet the service dogs. Yes, right. And Lily is just showing her independence. I was angry at the world because I couldn't see it anymore. That's why I wanted you to take care of me. I didn't think it was worth the effort to do it myself. But you didn't give me any other choice. So I went back to that school. Once I got out there and...

She just realized that the effort was worth it. So still got a long way to go, but she feels really good about her future. Rose is saying, oh, she felt silly coming out there when, you know, she doesn't even need her. And Lily makes it clear that she absolutely needs to see her sister and she needed her to see that Rose was right. Yes.

And so it ends with this really cute moment where Rose is like, let me, you know, take my arm and I'll guide you out of the airport. And Lily's like, you're terrible at directions. You take my arm. 49 steps this way. I'll guide you. And Rose is just so proud. And Lily goes, oh, this is nothing. Wait till you see me drive us home. Come on, Becky. Very sweet. Very funny. I take it back.

You actually did enjoy it. Okay. Well, I'll enjoy talking about anything with you. Aw, thank you. And Cheesecake, don't go anywhere. When we come back, Jen's going to do the deep dive on the set decoration. Lots of really interesting tidbits, girl, I got to say. I loved doing it, and I can't wait for you all to hear it. Yes. Carla only has the best tech. Can't connect to network. But she didn't have the best internet. So she got Cox Multigig speeds to power all her...

Now, all her tech is connected. Exactly. Step it up with Cox Multi-Gig Speeds. Available everywhere. Two gig download speeds. Individual speeds vary. See cox.com for details.

When you think about businesses that are selling through the roof like Aloe, Allbirds, or Skims, sure, you think about a great product, a cool brand, and brilliant marketing. But an often overlooked secret is actually the businesses behind the business, making selling and for shoppers buying simple.

For millions of businesses, that business is Shopify. Nobody does selling better than Shopify, home of the number one checkout on the planet and the not-so-secret secret, with shop pay that boosts conversions up to 50%, meaning way less carts going abandoned and way more sales going...

So if you're into growing your business, your commerce platform better be ready to sell whenever your customers are scrolling or strolling on the web, in your store, in their feed, and everywhere in between. Upgrade your business and get the same checkout experience as business powerhouses like Allo, Allbirds, and Skims.

Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash odyssey podcast, all lowercase. Go to shopify.com slash odyssey podcast to upgrade your selling today. Shopify.com slash odyssey podcast.

Girl, you're up. You're doing the deep dive this week on set decoration. Yeah, we promised. We deliver. I mean, I can't wait to hear what I'm going to learn. What an interesting art form. Yeah, and again, this is cherry-picked. You know, there's a lot of great stuff in here. And we've already talked about a lot of stuff that you've already done, for example, like the exclamation point and the doors, you know, that kind of stuff. Yeah.

But there's so many juicy things to tell you. Oh, my goodness. All right. So we're going to start with the exterior of the made-up address of 6151 Richmond Street. Oh, my God. I didn't even know we had an address. Yeah. From what I understand, it's made up. I hope I'm not wrong. Oh, my God.

This is basically this house is essentially the fifth character of the show. It's lovingly called that. Right. So in the show's first season, the exterior was actually a real home. We've discussed that. It's located in Los Angeles. That's the house that we see used in the intro. All right. It was designed by Hawaii-based architectural firm Johnson & Perkins. It was built in 1955. Wow. And it still stands at 245 North Saltare Avenue in Brentwood. Wow.

This is also the neighborhood that Bea Arthur lived in. Oh, really? Oh, so she would like drive by the house every day? Well, maybe. Oh my God. I'm sure she certainly knew where it was. That's what I remember. This was just on the market, like maybe two years ago for like $3 million. I'm talking about it right now. Sorry. I'll just pop a cheesecake or shut the hell up.

But also, I can correct you. So the house sold in 2020 for not $3 million. It sold for $4 million. Whoa. But you probably got that number because it actually sold for a million over the asking price. Oh, wow. There were at least 20 interested parties. There was a big...

bidding war. I mean, who doesn't want to own the Golden Girls house? You'd say that, but listen to this. You're going to be like happy, disappointed. Okay. So members of the family that purchased this home say they would like to remain anonymous. I can respect that. They state they're big fans of the house, distinctive mid-century modern architecture. And one thing they admit, they're not really fans of the Golden Girls. No.

Wow. I know. They got screwed because I feel like that bidding war was only because it was such a famous house. I know, but seriously, I mean, surely there were other mid-century modern homes. Exactly. 100%. I feel like it should have gone to a lover of the show. Right, because HGTV did that whole Brady renovation where the Brady Bunch house or whatever, and it went to a major Brady Bunch fan. Ugh. Someday. Maybe you and I will buy it and retire there. That'd be nice. Yeah. Can we get Coco to cook for us? Yeah.

Enchiladas. All right. So from season two onward, a replica of the house was then built on Walt Disney World's Hollywood Studios backlot. Which we've both seen. Yes, we have. Yeah. I was there in 1999. I was there later when I was in college. Well, from the second season on, the intro then featured the exterior of this replica built on a residential street. And like we said, it's part of the back.

lot tour. Oh, wow. Yeah. Now, the replica provided a brighter, more visible view of the house, which is better for filming, right? Yeah. It allowed for additional creative footage, such as cars pulling up in the driveway. Oh, interesting. That helped to set the scene in later episodes. So we were just talking about that recently, about you see taillights pull up or a car door open, but no one comes out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And hold, we're going to break in five, four, three, two, cut, cut. Yeah.

Anyway, unfortunately, the residential street house was demolished in 2003. So does that jive with when you saw it? The residential street? You mean the... The backlot tour ended in 2014. What was demolished? The house on the backlot tour. Yes, I would have seen it around the same time, actually.

You just got in under the wire, then. So it's not there anymore. No, it's not there. It's demolished. Oh, wow. Isn't that sad? Yeah. And today, apparently, on that site, the Star Wars Galaxy's Edge attraction occupies the space. You know what? Because the Star Wars stuff doesn't get enough attention. You know what I mean? Exactly.

So let's go to the interior of the actual set. The Golden Girls production designer was a man named Ed Stevenson. He was born February 9th, 1917 in Algona, Iowa. Ed was an acclaimed industry veteran when he took the Golden Girls job. He'd previously worked on both the Betty White Show and on Maud. He won his first Emmy Award in 1959 for An Evening with Fred Astaire. And he went on to win two more over the course of his career. Congratulations.

Yeah, he won for Soap and for The Andy Williams Show. He was also nominated in 1986 for the Golden Girls pilot episode. So another person that worked in this department was someone named John Schaffner. He does not appear on the IMDb credits, though he did work on the show.

So this designer is an Emmy Award winning production designer and art director. He's responsible for some of the most iconic sitcom sets of all time. For instance, Monica's Apartment on Friends. No way. Yeah, so he knows what he's doing. Oh, wow. The Golden Girls Living Room and Charlie Sheen's and later Ashton Kutcher's Home on Two and a Half Men. Oh, yeah. Iconic.

Yeah. When he first moved to California, he began working with Ed Stevenson and Stevenson gave him a script for the Golden Girls. And while Stevenson laid out the design of the house, he gave Schaffner plenty of creative freedom when it came to decorating the set. He's responsible for the wicker. Probably. Yeah. The bar cart. I just put it on the set.

Which is all I can think about. It's after five o'clock. Someone somewhere has that bar cart. I mean, you know, some gay in like. Some gay in Palm Springs is just making slow gin fizzes. Exactly. As we speak. On that bar cart. On that bar cart. That's what I love too, though. I love the leadership of delegation. You know, just like Ed Secure. He's like, you know what? You do this. Totally. You know, and they work together. When you look at the set, like the

set is layered and there's like the stuff behind the couch. There's like that whole step up and there's like the fireplace back there. No, and I'm getting to that. It was designed to your point to feel homey and not aspirational. And it's said to have felt really familiar to viewers because of that. Like people have had some experience of a lived in home. And that's what I remember when I was looking at like the character studies of the character. They wanted this house to feel like it's where you and your friends live.

Yeah, exactly. Like not aspirational. That makes sense to me. So here are some of the signature elements on the set. The rattan flourishes, especially on the furniture. Yeah. The tropical palette, the lush vegetation motifs. As evidenced in our show art. The ceramic vases in signature 80s colors. The Asian touches such as the porcelain face and wall art. Yeah.

I hate it. I know. Now, the layout floor plan of the Golden Girls house. Now, due to the changing of scriptwriters throughout the series, the layout of the house changed and fluctuated throughout the show's seven-year run. Oh, wow. Now, there was never an official blueprint or layout of the home. I have one. Well, you probably have what I have here, which is we have an approximated floor plan. And then they also have a floor plan where it kind of shows you that

this layout wouldn't be possible. That's how we keep saying that, like, the house is, like, 40,000 square feet because all the bedrooms are so enormous. And the roommates, it appears that they keep switching bedrooms, right? Yes. It's so interesting to watch this show with a real critical eye, you know? Yes, I know, and go slowly. Yeah. So in the world of the show, Blanche was most likely responsible for decorating, right? Because she was the original owner of the show. Her house, Lord knows she was robbed. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

But yeah, you know, and she references Ronald and Nancy Reagan, you know, and Blanche was Republican. Don't forget. Is that right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Elements of the living room changed after the pilot. But there's a coffee table from the pilot is one example. It sticks out because it doesn't seem to go with the rest of the room. Oh, wow. And by the second episode, it's replaced with one that matches the sofa and chairs more. Oh, interesting. So the kitchen...

The kitchen is like an eclectic mix of decor from the Chippendale dining chairs to the mid-century still life, you know, and decorative accents like the frilly curtains and the copper molds on the walls. And I have a little info about the copper molds. Because if you recall in one of the early episodes, I said that the lobster mold, it took me a while to realize it was a lobster. I was like, why is there a cock and balls on the wall? Right.

So we got a nice message. And Cheesecakes, we gave you that email. You can write us too at info at goldengirlsdeepdive.com. But we want to thank our listener Mark Graven for this email he sent.

Just heard about your podcast on Handsome. What a great idea for a podcast. So great to hear all the background info as well as hearing someone else discuss the odd little things I have noticed. I had to make a comment in regards to one of your comments, the copper lobster on the wall. In the 70s and 80s, in lots of kitchens, a common wall decoration was a set of what was called jello molds. The idea, I suppose, was that you could make fun shapes when making jello or any other moldable food. How wacky and fun. It's just like Arnie driving through a toll booth. I know.

They usually came in sets of three. A lobster, a fish, and a round cake-like shape, sometimes like a Bundt cake pan. I think I may actually have a set in my attic, having been a gift from my mom when setting up my first, quote, grown-up kitchen in the late 70s. I don't remember ever using them, nor anyone I know who also had them ever using them. Just a decoration in the same vein as everyone had a string of plastic vegetables.

I never had one of those. So thank you, Mark. We appreciate that. That's so great. Now, the kitchen, you've referenced this before. It was a last minute addition to the set because I'm going to talk about it coming from It Takes Two. Yeah. You had mentioned that. But Ed Stevenson came up with the show's layout over one weekend. All right. Right. Oh, right. He made a model of the three rooms needed for the pilot episode. So all they needed was Blanche's bedroom, the living room and the lanai. Yes. But everything changed quickly when the script was revised, which was...

What you shoot Friday is very rarely what you read on Monday. Yes. All right. And this revised script included a kitchen, a room that hadn't even been thought of yet. So production designers came up with ways to get around this issue. But since the Golden Girls kitchen was added last minute, it caused this ripple effect of other changes. And ultimately, the layout of the house no longer made sense. So...

Quote, the kitchen created issues no one could ever solve, assistant art director Michael Hines said to Jim Colucci in Golden Girls Forever. Yes. Quote, we said, well, when we get through the pilot, we'll fix it. And then we never did.

And this is what you mentioned before, Patrick, that the kitchen was a duplicate of It Takes Two. When the script for the pilot episode of The Golden Girls was revised and it included this kitchen, Ed turned to the TV sets he had tucked away in storage from other shows. So wild. And so in the end, the kitchen of the short-lived sitcom It Takes Two was chosen. And Cheesecake, you can go on YouTube and see like young Helen Hunt going from one room into the kitchen, which is The Golden Girls kitchen. It is wild. That's crazy. Yeah.

Here's another fun fact. The kitchen table had no tablecloth in the pilot, but then always had one after that. Interesting. And I loved this. I loved this. Michael Hines from Jim's book says, quote, the tablecloth quickly became a big deal on the show. Ed always wanted a pad.

a pattern. But then, after dress rehearsal, the producers would often note that the tablecloth clashed with someone's dress. So we started collecting different options. We ended up with a whole rack of 50 to 60 tablecloths, which we kept right behind the refrigerator. Wow! Isn't that crazy? I feel like right behind that was the row of 800 bathrobes and aprons. Probably. Probably.

So, and again, we say this every now and then, but real props to Jim Colucci. Go get his book. Golden Girls Forever. Jim Colucci is a genius. He did all the work. He talked to everybody. It's so brilliant. It's so great. Golden Girls Forever. Go get it. Go buy it and throw some cash his way because, I mean, this is the Bible of the Golden Girls. It's true. And people are always asking in the Facebook group, we're always dropping a link to the book. So go get it. Go get it. Maybe we'll put a permanent link to the book on the website. That'd be a good idea. And as you've said in another episode,

Yeah.

So according to assistant art director John Schaffner, who we've mentioned, having the fourth person sit on the stool or cooking at the island nearby gave viewers the feeling that they were seeing a play. Yes. Making the experience feel more appealing. It feels like that so often I feel like we know. Yeah. Yeah. You know, usually it's Sophia. I love that they make the old lady stand. And then it's like Blanche dipping bread and but then never eating. Yeah, I know. But like, you know, Sophia, put some back into it. That sauce. What are we? Hour 13. Keep going.

Shady pines for you otherwise. Shady pines, Ma. So the three golden girls were usually the ones chosen to sit at the kitchen table. And then each episode, they were also strategically placed.

The seating arrangements depended on two things. The particular situation and who needed, I loved this, who needed to exit the kitchen during the scene. So look for that next time. So far it's always been Dorothy sitting in the middle. Well, I'm going to talk about that right now. She was always given the middle chair because of her height. And it was also the perfect spot for the camera to catch her unique face expressions. Do you know if the

is true, Patrick, but I'm thinking it's not. I think it might be an old wives' tale, but I'd heard that she actually had it in her contract that she got to sit in the middle seat. Oh, interesting. That's a thing we should find out. I'll email Jim Colucci and see if he knows. Because maybe if not in season one, maybe she learned that maybe in subsequent seasons. Totally. But they're saying it's because of her height. Rose and Blanche will flip-flop either end, but Dorothy's always

always in the middle. But now I'm going to look, or sometimes when Sophia sits, but now I'm going to look for the entrances and exits because that's something I didn't know, which I love. And now we know the person sitting closest to the door is going to exit. You know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. So a little bit about Blanche's bedroom or boudoir, our favorite Southern belle. You know, the room is a butt of a lot of jokes with the palm frond decals. And this is something you've already discussed. We won't spend a lot of time on it, but the Martinique wallpaper. It's beautiful. You hate it. I love it. I don't hate it, but it's just, it's not my, I don't really look good in green. Right. No, but I'm,

But yes, it's famously from the Beverly Hills Hotel. Yeah. But I want to focus on this little gem. There are family photos in the corner of Blanche's room. Oh. And as we see in episodes, Blanche has a somewhat tenuous relationship with most of her family. And maybe you don't see these at first, these photos, but I think

because they're there, it kind of shows that Blanche cares deeply about her family. And it's sort of a lovely touch on Stevenson's part, I think. Oh, I love that. That's great. Now, Dorothy's bedroom, conversely, is a very stately bedroom. Yeah. And it's moving all the time. Right. Exactly. But they describe her room as more sophisticated and saucy, much like her personality. It's sort of like it's very elegant, decked out in worldly decor and filled with smart books. Okay.

We do. She does like to read. She loves to stay home on a Friday night and read. A nice foiled paper. Something historic. Yes, absolutely. And Rose's room may be described more as romantic. Retro cloud wallpaper, a nod to Rose's head in the clouds. Remember, like, all the different seating areas? Oh, yeah. Like, Rose's room is 8,000 square feet. But almost like a little girl's room. It reflects her sweet personality with pink and ruffles and chintz. And then Sophia's granny chic bedroom. Oh, yeah.

Soothing blue, dainty floral wallpaper and wool wallpaper, wallpaper and old school like fleece bedding. Yeah. Piped in satin trim. So everything kind of goes with everyone's personality. And like we said, despite how iconic and beloved the set was, Ed Stevenson only got nominated for an Emmy Award for Art Direction. Only one time? Only one time for the pilot episode. Wow.

But, you know, at least he did win. I mean, he won three Emmys in his illustrious career. Yeah. He died February 28th, 2011 at the age of 94 in the Hollywood Hills from complications of Alzheimer's disease and pneumonia. And we thank you, Ed, for being a friend. Thank you for being a friend, Ed. Aww. Aww.

Great deep dive, girl. Well, you know, and I was also proud of us. Proud of you. Why? Michael Beschloss. Oh, I was like, what did I do? Because you already covered a lot of this, like the exclamation point and the wallpaper. Well. And what else? Please, you've covered plenty of interesting things as we go. Well, I came up with cheesecakes. You did? You came up with- You love it or hate it. You came up with cheesecakes, Mother Cheesecake. Hey, you know what, though? You know what I came up with? The idea for a Facebook group. Ooh.

Cheesecakes. Will you please join us in our Facebook group? It's the, what is it called, girl? Golden Girls Deep Dive Podcast Discussion Group. You did it. I did it. You did it. Come and make some friends. Come and hang out. Share your Golden Girls memes. Just find some community on the internet where you can talk Golden Girls all day long. Send us an email. You mentioned this in your deep dive, but if you have topics you want us to cover, what's the email address? He can never remember. Info at GoldenGirlsDeepDive.com. Did I do it?

Oh, my. We are nailing it today. Papa. Oh, thank you. And last.

And lastly, follow us on the Instagram and the TikTok if you want to see like the funny, silly videos from our recordings. They're so good. They are so good. You know, the comments are also great. The handles are at Golden Girls Deep Dive. Just a quick reminder, I'm heading out on tour in February and I want to meet all of you. Come and see me in Seattle, Los Angeles, Salt Lake City, Denver, New Orleans, Indianapolis, and Kansas City with more cities to be announced soon. Tickets and info are available at PatrickTours.com.

I think that's it. Except this. Yeah. Thank you for being a friend by telling a friend about our podcast. I love it. It's my favorite thing. You get very Stepford wifey when you do it. I love it very much. You can't look me in the eye when you're saying it. Anything for you, Papa Cheesecake. Thank you, Mama Cheesecake. Not mama. Oh, thank you, Mother Cheesecake. Oh, God, I love it so much. All right, Cheesecakes, we love you. Love you. Bye. Bye.

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Whether you love true crime or comedy, celebrity interviews or news, you call the shots on what's in your podcast queue. And guess what? Now you can call them on your auto insurance too, with the Name Your Price tool from Progressive. It works just the way it sounds. You tell Progressive how much you want to pay for car insurance, and they'll show you coverage options that fit your budget.

Get your quote today at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Oh no, not on the carpet. I took a bath.

I found a Veg-E-R for pets only 10 minutes away. Yes, Veg! That's the one Dr. Holt told us about. Jen loves that place. Wow, the reviews. Everyone loves this place. Veg-E-R for pets. This is Anne. How can I help you? Hi, I think my dog Milo ate his toy. Let me get one of our veterinarians on the line.

Hey, you must be Milo. Let's take you to see our vet right away. So glad you guys are open. Veg ER for pets. Open 24-7. Cheesecakes, Patrick here. The holidays are upon us and we just wanted to let you know you are going to be getting episodes from us every single week. We are taking no time off for the holidays. Just make sure you're subscribed to the Golden Girls Deep Dive podcast so you get our episodes as soon as they drop. And we love you.