Big Daddy (Season 1, Episode 24)
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Hey, Cheesecakes. Just a quick reminder that tickets for my upcoming tour are now on sale. So the tour is a storytelling event that turns into a party. For the first part of the evening, I'm telling you a very true story about a disastrously hilarious evening I spent with the Golden Girls icon herself, Bea Arthur. It was a disaster because I was obsessed with her and she hated me, but she was stuck with me for the entire night. That

part of the evening is a little bit less than an hour long and includes an appearance via video by the great Bea Arthur impersonator Jason B. Schmidt who's embodying Bea from Beyond the Grave to give her slightly drunk definitely annoyed take on the whole thing then after that we all move to the venue bar which we have for the whole rest of the evening where we'll meet and greet we'll drink we'll take pictures and we will all become vast fronds

The first seven cities I'm coming to in February and March are Seattle for opening night, then Los Angeles, Salt Lake City, Denver, New Orleans, Indianapolis, and Kansas City. The venues are super small and tickets are going fast. Tickets and info are available at PatrickTours.com. That's PatrickTours.com. And I can't wait to see you at the show. Okay, now to the episode. ♪

Hi, Jennifer Simard. Hi, Patrick Hines. Oh, hi, Cheesecakes. We love you. We love you so much. I'm so happy to be in the booth with you today. Me too. Episode 24. It's happening. Our baby is growing up too fast. We got to take two-year-old pictures so we always remember our baby. Listen, by the time they hear this, it's going to be far in the future, but you just finished your third day of rehearsal. I did. Give us three sentences of how it's going. It's going magically, beautifully, and hilariously. Yes.

Death Becomes Her. It's probably already in previews when you hear this episode. Go. Who knows? Oh, my God. We got to remind the people what we do here. We do hilarious. Speaking of hilarious, we do hilarious recaps of each episode of The Golden Girls. We started with season one. We're almost at the end of season one. It's wild. Yeah. This is episode 24. We've got one left of season one. And we do little mini deep dives. Itty diddies. Itty diddy bitty diddies. Itty diddy bitty diddies.

sprinkled throughout. Interesting facts. We have a full-time researcher, Jess. Yes. We'd be lost without him. And then at the end of each episode, we give you a more extended deep dive on something from the Golden Girls universe. Yeah, so I'm doing a deep dive today. I'm doing a deep dive all about a woman named Ellen Stewart who founded an

off-off-Broadway theater in New York City called La Mama. La Mama is where Torch Song Trilogy was done. Torch Song Trilogy is what gave us Estelle Getty. Literally, she was in Torch Song Trilogy when she got cast. Like, because she was doing the show, she got cast on The Golden Girls. Right. You know, Ellen Stewart is a woman of color who created a thriving off-Broadway theater in the 50s that is still thriving to this day, giving us some of, like, the greatest off-Broadway downtown talent. I'm so excited to share this deep dive cheesecake, so stick around at the end. Love it. Shall we jump into the episode? Let's do it.

Take us away, girl. What are we doing? All right. So this episode, number 24, season one, was called Big Daddy. It was written by Barry Fennaro and Mort Nathan. You know those names by now. Of course. Directed by Terry Hughes, another familiar source. Its original air date was May 3rd, 1986. So one really crazy thing that happened in the world this week that I wanted to tell you about. Yeah. Are you familiar with the Captain Midnight Hack of HBO? No.

Okay, it is such a weird and wild story. I'm going to tell it quickly because we've got a lot to get to. But I had to tell it when I learned of this. I'm like, I have to tell the story. So HBO, home box office, like, da-da, da-da, da-da, da-da, da-da. Everyone knows HBO. I'm still mad that it's not HBO Max anymore. I know.

Because literally I was team HBO between the two. So sorry, I'm not over it. I know, me either. Well, HBO launched in 1972. Cable subscribers had to pay for the service, but anybody with a home satellite dish did not. Now, the home satellite dish thing is not what we know it to be today. It was like kind of a really big deal. The people who had them had been sold on this idea that the hassle...

of installing the expensive equipment because it was like $1,000 to install these satellite dishes meant that you would never have a cable bill, let alone when like pay cable like HBO came along, you would never need to worry about getting that $500 setup box plus the, you know, the monthly $12.99 bill. So when HBO came around, they went to Congress and in 1985, what?

I thought you were going to say, he just happened to work for NASA. I know.

And he said HBO to the moon. Was it something called Hubble? I don't know. Anyway. Well, his whole job was to transmit programming data to cable stations. So he's alone in the office one night and this guy has both the equipment and the know-how to disrupt the entire HBO feed on the East Coast. Oh, wow.

Which is about 8 million subscribers, which is also half of HBO's entire subscription base. Oh, wow. So on the evening of April 27, 1986, as the credits are rolling on Pee-wee's Big Adventure, remember, this guy's alone in the office, he, like, types out a quick message and then does the smarty pants, pressing all the button-y things to the satellites or whatever, and suddenly Pee-wee's Big Adventure disappears and a message pops up.

pops up to these eight, nine million subscribers. A manifesto? Well, the message reads, and you can see it on HBO. It's very, it's old school looking. It's not fancy, but it just reads, good evening, HBO from Captain Midnight, 1295 slash month question mark. No way, exclamation mark. And then down below it in brackets, it says Showtime slash movie channel beware. Wow. Wow.

So the technicians at HBO are losing their mind. They don't know what's going on. They don't know how that got there. They can't figure out how to get it off. McDougal leaves the message up for four minutes, gets bored, turns the thing off, resumes programming, which right after Pee-Wee's Big Adventure was the 1985 Sean Penn conspiracy thriller, The Falcon and the Snowman. So it took the FBI until July, so about two and a half months to figure out who did it. They find McDougal. He pleads guilty in exchange for one year's probation and a $5,000 fine. Yeah.

But he made his point. But did he have to pay $12.95? I think he did. I think going forward, he had to pay $12.95 slash month question mark. No way. Wow. How very sneakers. How very the Matrix. How very the net sneakers.

When I read that story, I was like, oh my God. Like I thought, I just thought it was a wild, fascinating story. Well, that was worth it. I have a very quick one. Oh, please. Billboard chart, May 3rd, 1986. Just because I loved this song. Oh yeah. And I loved the video. Uh-huh. And I loved the fashion in the video. Robert Palmer's number one that week, Addicted to Love. Oh yeah. Do you remember that song? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Robert Palmer girls used to call them. They were wearing those black dresses and the slick back hair. But it's like, might as well, Faye, say you're addicted to love. Yes, Patrick. Might as well.

That was number one. What a week. Apparently the Chernobyl disaster was also that week, but I did not do a deep dive on it because I had to do the Captain Midnight hack. We do have to get to the Golden Girls. We are not the History Channel, right? Sometimes I'm like, wait, did we make the wrong podcast? I don't know. We're coming for you, Beshi. It's true. All right. All right.

All right, we open in the kitchen. Sophia pulls the orange juice out of the fridge. Dorothy enters wearing a lovely white and brown tunic top. Yeah. She looks really cute. That's what I said. I love this top. Dorothy is turning into a really good dresser. She is. She looks great. Sophia pours just like a quarter of a cup into a glass. Morning, Ma. Taste this. Mmm.

It's awful. What's the matter with it? It's expired. But sometimes it's good after the date. I just wanted a check. And her mother did her so dirty. So dirty. That's mean. No, it's like when you smell the milk. Yeah, look. And you, and the thing is.

The thing is, you can smell that it's spoiled. So you don't need another person to back up that evidence. Right. The other morning, I have like a milk and a protein bar for breakfast. Yeah. Mornings. Yeah. And I took a sip of the milk and it was bad. And I thought I was just going to upchuck all over my right. Did you send Daisy out to the corner store? Yeah. God, the days of like when the parents would like send the 10 year old out for like a pack of smokes and a gallon of milk. Yeah. That's not my house. No, no. Nor should it be. Nor should it be.

But it's just so mean to make Dorothy be like the taste tester for the rotten orange juice. Yeah, so Dot goes to pour a cup of Joe. Yeah.

And, you know, Dorothy does tell her mother that she looks tired, but there's a good reason. Yeah. You look tired, Mom. Rose kept me up all night. Oh, why? I don't know. She was afraid of the storm. Three o'clock in the morning, she knocks on my door, crying, begging, pleading to get into bed with me, just like your father used to do before we got married. So what did you do? I told him, you're not getting anything till you put a ring on my finger and a donkey in my father's barn. LAUGHTER

Not Pop, Rose. I told her to get the hell out of my room. First of all, the idea of Rose crying at Sophia's door at three in the morning is a little ridiculous. Yes, yes. Sophia tells us that she told Rose to get the hell out of her room. She's lovely. Yeah.

Of all the people you're going to go cuddle up with, I don't imagine it would be Sophia. You know what I mean? I know. And, like, just making her beg and plead. And, oh, my gosh. How long did that go on is what I wonder. This 55-year-old woman scared of a thunderstorm. Like, can you get your life together? But we've said that she's not. She has that childlike quality. So she's scared like a child. And, like, Daisy is still afraid of storms. And I kind of never want that to go away. Like, when it thunders out, Daisy does come running into our room. Listen, I only found out until later in life that as an adult...

My mother was afraid of thunderstorms. Wow. And my dad actually turned it into a game and us kids loved it. And they, you know, some parents... Turned her trauma into a game? Yeah, well, because we would go camping in the summer. And, you know, when you're in a camper, you imagine how scary it is with the trees. My mom was terrified of thunder and lightning. So he would pile us all into this car and we'd go driving around Tamworth, New Hampshire. And he would just, like, he'd go pretend that there were...

like spies after us and that we were like trying to run from like this, you know, like whatever, like a James Bond movie, right? And so he like, he drove to like, everyone get down. Like he was so creative and we were just squealing. But basically it was all while the storm was going on to distract my mother because she felt safe with the rubber tires on the car. Isn't that sweet? That is sweet. You know what my dad did when I was 10? What? Abandoned the family. So can't relate. Yeah.

Well, let's do a sad commercial. Let's do the sad music into a commercial break. Wow. In fact, what a perfect ad spot. With actually the Golden Girls sad music into it. I'm not kidding.

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True crime bullshit is now in its sixth season and Josh's 10-year investigation is paying off in spades. This is huge, Cheesecakes. Josh and his team have helped the FBI identify the first Israel Keyes kill kit found since Keyes' 2012 suicide.

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So we're back from Patrick's tragic story. So Rose enters and she's trying to explain to Sophia why she was so scared last night. Like Sophia, who never misses an opportunity to just be horribly mean to Rose. She says, Rose, did I give you any indication that I give a shit? Yeah, exactly. And they're in the living room at this point, by the way. They've entered there with their coffee. Blanche enters looking, as usual, fetching. I mean, she's wearing this like yellow jumper with this peach floral like overshoot. She looks perfect.

Yeah, perfect. And she's also perfectly ecstatic because her father is coming heretofore called. Girls, my father's coming. Big Daddy's coming. He just called. Big Daddy's going to be in Miami tomorrow. I can't believe it. I can't believe I know anyone who calls their father Big Daddy.

Big Daddy. Now, I love a Big Daddy episode. I will take a Big Daddy episode any day of the week. I love the idea of this character. I love the little bell that Blanche becomes in the presence of Big Daddy. Oh, my God. I know. I have here, Big Daddy's coming for a visit. Probably for two weeks. That's what they do.

Yeah. Is he going to, like, for some reason, it's fine to have any extended family but him stay at the house. It feels like he should be at a hotel. Exactly. You know what I mean? Like, where's he going to, like, what's he going to do? He's going to forget to put the toilet seat down. No, and this is probably something about me. I probably shouldn't be this uncomfortable. But also because there's such a, like, look at your beautiful eyes, my little dog. Like, it makes me uncomfortable. No, I agree. It's a little sexual. And it's like, please don't stay in Bledge's bed. What's happening? No! No! No!

Oh, no. It just makes me, I don't like it. Oh, I couldn't agree more. And I don't mean anything by that about the bed. Of course. It's just the compliments. I guess there's something in me that I find it, I would not. No, it's weird. You know, it's weird. It's not you, it's weird. Okay, okay, okay.

Dorothy says she can't believe she knows anyone who calls their father Big Daddy, which makes it sound like Blanche has never told a story about her dad before. Yes, exactly. I know. I know. But Blanche is just explaining who Big Daddy is in their community back home. He's like the most loved and respected man in town. But as she goes on in this story, it just becomes like a script from Gone with the Wind. I think they even referenced Gone with the Wind. People from all over the county would drive up to Twin Oaks.

That's the name of our house. To ask Big Daddy's advice on one thing or the other. And while the men were discussing business on the veranda, the ladies would retire to the shade of an old magnolia to sip mint juleps and exchange prize-winning pecan pie recipes. Tell me, Blanche, during any of this, would the farmhands suddenly break into a chorus of dem old cotton fields back in the day?

The thing I will acknowledge about this speech is I'm not sure it would be used today. Yeah. But I will say at least Dorothy slash Bea Arthur's delivery is so disgusted by the antebellum picture Blanche is painting. Oh, totally. You know what I mean? Like, I see where they're going with it, but it's also in light of where we are in this world, like the whole good old days sentiment. Yes. Wait, Jess, our researcher put in the fun facts trivia. It says in May 2020, this episode was broadcast in the UK on Channel 5.

with a warning that it contained, quote, historical attitudes. Yeah. Like this episode came with a warning to the very point that you're making. Yes, the good old days of slavery. Right, right. Oh, my God. And then, of course, it being the Southern gal she is, she's like, well, maybe I'm exaggerating just a touch, but not about Big Daddy. Oh, he's a very special man. He has truly been a father to everybody in our town. Your mother must have been a very forgiving woman.

The audience loved Blanche's line. They loved Rose's line. So Blanche's got a million things to do before he arrives. She's got to go pick up his favorite food, his favorite brandy, his favorite cigars. She wants him to feel right at home, to which I said, all I can say is take a lesson, Daisy. When I come to visit you and your children, that bar better be stocked. That's all I'm saying. I want Dunkin' Donuts coffee ground up and in the coffee maker. All right. What is your favorite food? Since they said favorite food. Bourbon. Okay. Favorite brandy, bourbon. Okay.

Cigars, bourbon, bourbon cigars. Yeah, no cigars. No cigars, Daisy. Just bourbon and Dunkin' Coffee. That's all I need. I'm good to go. So Rose says she's going to go out to the Lanai for a little bit. She says, and I actually kind of love this. She says the air is always so nice and fresh after a storm. I'm with her. Me too. It's my favorite. I take videos of me sometimes out in the rain. Really? Because everything is so green and beautiful. And I...

Sometimes your hippie just really comes out. Do you know I'm literally a tree hugger? I am. I just... Oh, I love that about you. Oh, yeah. It's my favorite. Hello, tree. And I do. The Ents are my favorite character in Lord of the Rings. Oh, Lord of the Rings. Your nerd is showing now. Oh.

All right. So Sophia, always with an angle, she says, I'm going to go out on the lanai for a while. The air is always so nice and fresh after a storm. As long as you're out there, Rose, why don't you pull some weeds? Okay. Ma, yesterday you said you were going to pull the weeds. I said I'd get it done and it's getting done. So lighten up. So,

So lighten up. You know what? I love that for you, Sophia. That's right. So Rose comes running back in. Dorothy, Sophia, come quick. Now, my note here is sometimes when somebody screams out, like, for example, when Sophia went into the kitchen when the attack dog was in there. Yeah. Dorothy can barely

twirling down the hallway at 80 miles an hour. When Rose needs something on the one night, no one's in a rush. Well, no, they think it's going to be a St. Olaf story or something. Or something ridiculous. It's like, it's not quite the boy that cried wolf, but it is a little bit with her. And I think that Dorothy's still reeling from the fact that Rose actually didn't go live with her sister in Chicago. Yeah.

You know what I mean? She almost had that room. Almost had it. That Blanche promised her. Almost had it. Oh. So they get out to the Linn-Eye and they see like a big palm tree. Yeah. And the set decorator did a good job. It looks very destructive. Obviously, we know there was a big storm last night. I instantly, though, went to the loss of privacy they now have because you can see the buildings in the back. It's true. I'm like, oh, no. I mean, yes, you know, Cheesecakes, I just said I love trees. Yes. But I also love what they can do for me. And they can keep me hidden forever.

Mr. Barton. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Here comes Mr. Barton. And, like, this guy right away is giving, like, dad who drinks too much energy. You know what I mean? He's very angry. He's really angry. Aggressive. He's aggressive. Aggressive. Good morning, ladies. And, you know, good morning, Mr. Barton. I'm also suspicious of any neighbor the women aren't on first name basis with.

Do you know what I mean? Why do they call him Mr. Barton? What kind of jerk is he at the neighborhood meetings? I know, exactly. But Mr. Barton says, well, looks like you had a little bad luck here. Yes. And Dorothy uses, boy, we certainly did. She doesn't emphasize it, but it's important to the story. And she says, any damage to your place? Nope, not a scratch. And Rose points out, like, thank goodness if the wind had been blowing the other way, your tree could have fallen into your living room. And here we go. What do you mean, my tree?

She means your tree because it was on your property. No way, lady. This is your tree. It's your responsibility. Oh, my goodness! Our tree fell into your yard!

And Mrs. Barton comes in and it's such a great laugh. She says, oh my goodness, our tree fell into your yard. That's a great Mrs. Barton. Well, I love her. You're so versatile. Oh, thank you. Forbidden Broadway is how I moved to New York City. Yes, yes. But no, I love this actress. She played the secretary with the drinking problem in 9 to 5. The Dolly Parton, Lily Tomlin, Jane Fonda. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so she's at her desk and every time one of our leading ladies would do something awesome,

She would say, Where are you going? I need a drink, Roz. I'm taking the rest of the day off. Atta girl. Atta girl.

I love her too. Her name is Peggy Pope. We just have a little bit of information on her. She's born in Montclair, New Jersey on May 15th, 1929. She graduated from Smith College with a major in theater in 1951. And she had a really great like Broadway career. The career highlight that I'm obsessed with is in 1970. She appeared in the revival of Harvey on Broadway with Sam Waterston. Oh, yeah. Remember like the Jimmy Stewart thing with like the pretend rabbit or whatever? Yes.

I do. She was in the revival. Oh, that's awesome. She was also on Soap. She recurred as Mrs. David, who, after meeting Billy Crystal's gay character, admits to her daughter that he's her first homo. Oh. Oh.

As you said, she played tipsy office secretary Margaret in the 1980 hit 95. And then she did a bunch of film work and she died on May 27th, 2020, aged 91. 91. I didn't know she had passed away. That makes me sad. Yeah. I don't know why. You know, some of these actors and actresses who play such endearing characters, you just think they'll live forever. I know. Because they do live forever in one sense on your TV screen. It's true. But 1986 was a long time ago. A long time ago. You know,

while we're here, let me do my deep dive on the man who plays Mr. Barton. Yeah, I like you're doing the wedded couple today. The wedded couple. His name is Gordon Jump, and he looks so familiar to me. And I just, my notes are like, he was just one of those happy working actors. He's one of those like, oh, you're that guy from the

thing, but you don't really like know his name. He's best known for two roles. He played Arthur Carlson on WKRP in Cincinnati. Now, I don't know anything about that show, but apparently he's best remembered for an episode in which his well-meaning character, I watched the YouTube clip of this today and it's hilarious. Yeah. The character conceived a WKRP promotional stunt to drop live turkeys from a helicopter at Thanksgiving. Yes. And when disaster followed, because you see the newscaster being like, they're dropping...

something. They're dropping turkey. He's dropping live turkeys out of a helicopter. His famous line from the scene where he has to explain himself, he says, As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

And apparently that's an oft-quoted line. Yes. The other role he's known for, now you're going to remember him for this. He was the Maytag appliance guy. Yes. So Maytag was that company that they made like dishwashers and washing machines. Yeah. And like his whole character was that he was like the lonely appliance man. He was the Maytag man. Yeah, but he was always lonely because the appliances never broke, so they never needed the service guy or whatever. He played that role from 1989 until he retired.

Well, ka-ching. Good for him. I love it. Thank you for that little ditty. Thank you for that itty-bitty ditty.

Back to the episode. Mr. Barton tells his wife, clam up, Gladys. This is their tree. Now, I have to say, Dorothy is very kind and reasonable here. I have a lot here if you'll indulge me. So she says, look, there seems to be some confusion here, but we are neighbors. What do you say we split the costs and have the tree hauled away? To which I think to myself, again, Blanche, the owner of the home, nowhere to be found.

Well, because I was thinking that's a very nice gesture. Yeah. But like the tree's legitimately on his property. It's his tree. If I'm Rose, I'm like, girl, why are you offering to pay half? You can't say this for all women, but this is such a woman thing to do. Just to take the empathetic. Yes. Kind hearted. Like I know I'm right. Yes. But I'd rather keep the peace.

We're neighbors. Let's just split it. And that's what I mean. Kind and reasonable doesn't have to do it. And then, of course, in the face of that anyway, he's such a shit bird. Right. He just escalates and he's like, what do you say you have it hauled away and I'll split? That does it. You don't have any choice. You're hauling that tree away, capisce? You Italians have got some temper. You Italians? With disdain in his voice, he said it. Now you're going to pay.

What are you doing? That's the evil eye. I just put a Sicilian curse on you. You're not going to have a moment's peace until you hold that tree away. And Patrick, I have a ditty on the evil eye. Oh, please. First of all, I'm just going to jump to the fact that if you're like me, you know, you've seen those evil eye amulets and I give them as gifts. I love them. Yes, they're beautiful. So there's this blue concentric rings, blue, white and a dark center. And it's to keep evil spirits away. But here's more about it here.

So one of the most popular superstitions in Italy is something called the mal occhio or evil eye. The mal occhio is a superstitious condition characterized by misfortune, unluckiness, negative energy, and sometimes illness. The word mal meaning bad and occhio eye can also be associated with the green eye or envy. My apologies if I...

pronouncing that wrong. My Italian is rusty. Negative energy can be sent to someone who is jealous or envious of the other person, essentially putting the evil eye on them. In Southern Italy, the curse can be detected by dropping olive oil in a bowl of water. And if the oil turns into an eye, the victim has the dreaded malocchio. Oh,

I'm going to do that when I get home. Yes. I bet that's what's wrong. That's what's wrong. Anyway, so the curse of the malocchio is said to come from the root of envy, another superstitious belief of the Italians to never brag or say how well they're doing. The evil eye can be traced back to the Romans in Italy where people were

punished if they were said to have put a curse on another. Many other ancient cultures believed in the evil eye throughout the Mediterranean. The Italian bull's horn, or cornicello, is said to protect against the evil eye, which kind of looks like she did, though. So often worn as an amulet for protection and often mistaken as a red chili, the cornicello charm is said to safeguard and bring good luck to the wearer. Elsewhere, the concept of an evil eye is mentioned in several verses of the Bible, and

and in the works of Plato. Wow. In the 17th century, Francis Bacon's Of Envy suggested that humans have a power that they ejaculate upon any object or person they behold, and that person can cause ill will. Let me tell you, I'm going to have some ill will if you ejaculate on me, Patrick.

Oh, my God. I'm sorry. Did I read that correctly? All right. Humans have a power that they ejaculate upon any object or person they behold, and that power can cause ill will. I don't know, Plato. I don't know, girl.

I don't know, Plato, girl. So listen, on that note, Plato, we're going to leave it there. Okay. Girl. The evil eye is just no good, is what you're saying. And it's very real, according to Sophia. According to Sophia. So Mr. Barton is not taking this seriously. He and his wife exit. Right. And Dorothy's now mad at her mother, saying like, why did you do that? You just made it worse. And Sophia says...

Ridiculous? The curse works, believe me. I've used it before. When? Baltimore Colts, New York Jets, 1969. Draw your own conclusions.

Girl, when I tell you, I asked Jess, the researcher, can you explain this to me? Give me some information on this 1969 Colts-Jets game. Yeah. He did his very best. I wanted to, like, understand this and, like, whatever, and do a little deep dive. Jess did his best. He even translated, like, sports into gay. Uh-huh. He literally...

He literally bolded definitions to words like blintz, offensive line, and secondary, a.k.a. defensive backs. I don't think it's blintz. I think it's blintz. See? This is what I'm talking about. Am I wrong? No, I think you're probably right. He explained who a person named Joe Namath is. You don't know who Joe Namath is? No, but I got to

tell you, I got nothing. I read through the packet like twice. You know what? We've done a lot of ditties already. I really tried. The cheesecakes want us to get to the episode. One team won by a lot and it was an upset and people were mad. That's all I, that's, that's what I took away from it. Oh, that's a great ditty. Thank you so much.

So the next day, we're in the living room. Rose enters from the kitchen in a lovely coral dress with a flower arrangement. Yes. Sophia is needle pointing, I think. Dorothy enters the front door and she's just come from the courthouse where she has found the property lines because of course she went. And I was like, where's Blanche?

She's getting cigars. She's the house cartographer in addition to being the house undertaker and the barbecuer. I'm sorry. That does not sound like fun. She's going down to get the property records for a house she doesn't own. And Blanche...

is playing Scarlett O'Hara over there. Oh my God. I love, I mean this from the bottom of my heart. I love your sense of responsibility of the homeowner. I have to tell you, this is where I'm not Blanche. I don't think I've said to people, I've always been a Dorothy, but I'm really in a good Blanche phase in my life. And that's great. But this is where the path splits from Blanche because I am so responsible. I know you would be the,

the rent-paying roommate down at the courthouse getting the property lines drawn. Oh, yeah. Yeah, no question. So Dorothy's excited because she's saying, like... Ah, ah, great news. I stopped by the courthouse this morning and got a copy of our property map. The tree definitely belongs to Mr. Barton, and it is his responsibility to remove it. Play it safe. Stick with the curse. Oh, my. Well, I've stayed with you all these years. Oh, my.

And I love that her mother considers evil eyeing Dorothy. Yeah, just poised to lay one on Dorothy. I know.

So Blanche enters. Get ready for the ridiculousness. Yeah. Like this is what I'm talking about, where like the Big Daddy episodes, it makes Blanche insane every time. I have here, she enters dressed like me in Act 2 of Once Upon a One More Time. And if you go to my Instagram page. Oh my God. Add the Jennifer Smart and find it, you know, from last year and I'll post it with the Facebook group. So if you want to see that, join the Facebook group. Please do. Yeah, I posted it because I literally my dress in Act 2 looked

Like the same sleeves, the same neckline. Oh my God. It's funny because it's like she really does look like a Disney princess in a 55-year-old woman's body. Yeah. So she looks ridiculous, right? Right, right. It's this like old-timey southern blue dress. She asks how she looks. Sophia says, like the night hostess at Denny's. Which is just... Like, I don't know exactly what that looks like, but I can see it exactly in my head when Sophia says it. I can see that and I can see moons over my hammy. Yeah.

That's what I see. And Blanche is saying this is exactly what I wore to my Sweet 16. It was always Big Daddy's favorite. And I have, ew. Exactly. I have in parentheses EWW question mark. And I have to say, maybe not everyone will agree with us, but I love that you're agreeing with me because I thought

Is there something wrong with me that I think that's gross? No, because look, I've got a daughter. You know what I mean? And like, you're just always very hyper aware when you're like two men and a little girl in a house. Like, I used to do theater in high school. And I remember there was, you know, when I did shows where maybe I was too scantily clad, my dad was not happy about it and wanted me to cover up some more. So like, I can't imagine that a dress with that low a décolletage. I know, I know.

Would be my daddy's favorite. Would be Big Daddy's favorite. Right. Like there is something to her calling him Big Daddy. It's a lot. It's a lot. Well, and I will say this. Since the 80s, you know, maybe that's part of why we're saying, ooh, I have more questions than answers. Yeah. But you know that whole like, oh, that is, that is, you know, like all that stuff. So maybe that's why because I don't know.

I don't know either. We're getting a slippery slope over here, folks. Moving on, moving on. So the doorbell rings. Everyone thinks it's Big Daddy. And Blanche is explaining to the room. Now listen, girls. My father is an old-time Southern aristocrat who is used to fine manners and gentility. So please, please, please be on your best behavior.

And they all look to Sophia. To which she says, why is everyone looking at me? So they open the door. She thinks it's going to be Big Daddy. It's Mr. Barton looking for Sophia. He says, where's the old lady? Sophia, not scared, has the line of the episode. She jumps out of her chair and goes, you're looking for me, mouth. I love that she calls him mouth. Hi, it's Charlie. Hello, hello, hello. Oh, I love it.

So Dorothy is trying to be calm and rational. She's got the property map. Polite, composed. Totally. She's trying to de-escalate. You know what I mean? Which is also not like her.

like her you're right but mr barton is kind of scary like he's like a big oafish mean angry man yes okay and so she says i'm glad you're here i went down to the courthouse this morning and he cuts her off and says this is not a social call sir yeah when was the last time you were invited over to the lanai for it's never been a social call girl but apparently someone let the air out of his

tire. And he thinks that, you know, Sophia did it. He literally thinks that this 81-year-old woman snuck out in the middle of the night and let the air out of her tires. Now, I am not saying that that is something I think she wouldn't do. Oh, I think she absolutely would. She would definitely do it. But on its face, it's a ridiculous accusation. Exactly. He threatens to have her arrested if he ever catches her on his property. So Rose, like, Rose wants to grab Sophia for, like, she must be saved at all costs.

That's right. And Dorothy's trying to convince him and assure him that, you know, her mother had nothing to do with it. It's just a coincidence. And Sophia takes issue with that. She's very proud of her curse. It's a coincidence, my eye. And she makes the curse motion from across the room. And so Dorothy, like once again, thrusts the property map into his hand and says, like, the tree is yours. And he insists he's not going to move it. He tears up the map. Dorothy is getting like angrier. The level of energy is rising. Rising. Rising.

I'm not gonna move it. Not after what she did. You have to! Sue me! We will! Fine! That jerk! Trying to intimidate us. Just who does he think he is? What is it, mouse? Back home, most people start off with "How do?"

What is it, mouth? But it's... It's Big Daddy! Dorothy looks horrified. Big Daddy, he's funny. He doesn't care. He's charming right off the get, as they would say. And Blanche runs in, Daddy!

And here we go. Big Daddy's like, baby girl. Look at it. You takes my breath away. Hair as shiny as the dew on a field of sunflowers. Eyes that sparkle blue in the Mississippi and the prettiest smile on either side of the Mason-Dixon line. Did not tell you my daddy was the smartest man who ever lived.

Which is just not how I'm going to greet Daisy when I go to visit her. You know what I mean? I'm just not, I'm going to say like, hi, sweetie. Please. I was going to make a joke, but it's inappropriate. Anyway. Well, but like the reaction shots of the roommates are just hilarious. Yeah. And so Blanche is like, didn't I tell you my daddy was the smallest man who ever lived? So Blanche is like,

So he comes in, he heads right for Sophia. Now we know Sophia doesn't like this. Right. Sophia does not like it when people, even people her age, like Big Daddy probably is. Yeah. Sort of like pander to her. Now I have to say as independent and modern a woman as I am, I am a sucker for old fashioned manners. And I love the fact that he went to the most elder lady of the group. She hates it. She hates it, but Jen Smart likes it. You must be Sophia.

It's a pleasure to meet you. Excuse me for staring, ma'am, but I've always felt that the stunning classical beauty of an Italian woman should be admired like a fine work of art. You need boots to listen to this guy.

For those of you who don't know, that means full of shit. Exactly. Yes. And then she does what she always does. She gets up and leaves. Like, I love that she literally just can't stand being around these people after a certain amount of time. That's right. It happens in every episode. Blanche wants Daddy to meet her best friends, and she starts to introduce them. And so he introduces her to Rose, and he tells her, has anyone ever told you that you're the spitting image of Miss Dinah Shore? And Rose, you're putting me on. And Blanche says, of course he is. Because Blanche has to be the prettiest one in the room. I was like, she can't stand it. No. No.

She can't stand it. And then Dorothy apologizes for accidentally yelling at him. And he says, I'm sorry. I hope I didn't offend you. No harm done, darling. Now, I want you to promise me you won't fret none. Well, I would, except I'm not exactly sure what fret none is.

So good. Because Dorothy just has this great way of not suffering the foolishness. Yeah. In a way that isn't rude. That's right. Now, I did a ditty on Dinah Shore. I met Dinah Shore. You did? When I was 13 years old. Wow. Yeah, I was visiting my brother with my family at West Point. Your brother went to West Point? My oldest brother, Tom, went to West Point. Damn, Tom. Yeah. Damn. Did it just get hot in here? Yeah.

My brothers are both brilliant. Wow. Yeah. So we're at the Thayer Hotel and Dinah Shore was performing on campus at, I think it was Eisenhower Hall is where they would have the theater. And we knew she was staying in the penthouse suite and I rode the elevator up and down a few times. I was like, I know she's going to be there.

I know she's coming out at this time. And sure enough, I caught her on the elevator and she gave me her autograph. I was a fan, even though I was so young and I was also fascinated. This ties into Golden Girls. Would you probably have your deep dive? She dated Burt Reynolds. No, I don't have that in my deep dive. Oh, she dated Burt Reynolds. My deep dive is kind of specific. Okay. I didn't know anything about her. I knew one thing about her, which we'll get to in a second. So Dinah Shore was a singer, actress, television personality, and chart-topping female vocalist.

From the 40s to the 60s, she had a string of 80 chart-topping pop songs. In the 50s and 60s, she starred in her own television, music, and variety shows, and she hosted two talk shows in the 1970s. She was a huge start. TV Guide ranks her number 16 on...

on their list of top television performers of all time. 16. So all of that is great. My big curiosity about Dinah Shore has always been Dinah Shore Weekend. Do you know what this is? No. It's a huge lesbian party. Okay. That happens every year in Palm Springs. It's called Dinah Shore Weekend, but she was not a lesbian. Right. She wasn't even like a lesbian icon. I've never understood the connection. Okay. So here's what I found out. It turns out that Dinah Shore loved women's golf. Okay.

And in 1972, Dinah Shore partnered with Colgate Palmolive to create the Dinah Shore Golf Championship, which still exists to this day and is now called the Chevron Championship. And as we know, women's golf attracts a lot of lesbians. So in the late 80s, lesbians started to venture to Palm Springs while the matches were taking place to party at loosely organized events with like boom boxes and alcohol.

They were like, oh, a lot of lesbians are going to be there. Like, let's go there and party. Then in 1990, a promoter named Mariah Hansen attended one of these parties and she had a vision. She said she wanted to create a lesbian world. So in 1991, the next year, she organized a one night diner party borrowing the name from the golf tournament at

the Palm Springs Museum of Art where she was a corporate sponsor. The event got so wild that some of the art was damaged, so she never held the event at the museum again, and instead she brokered a partnership with the Hilton, expanding the event from a weekend to a long weekend to a five-day music festival filled with daytime pool parties and live performances that would run into the early hours of the morning. It's like this iconic

iconic lesbian weekend. It was featured on the L Word in 2012, and then it doubled in size, and everyone goes. Dinosaur weekend is huge. 34 years later, the golf tournament has moved to Houston, but the lesbian event lives on and is now more popular than ever. And in fact, that woman, Mariah, she still organizes it every year. And she was like, we were kind of thrilled when the golf tournament went to another city because a lot of the hotels were taken up. It was hard to run two events in the same city at the same time. You know, Patrick, this reminds me, though, of what you were saying about Ellen Stewart, the

The fact that there wouldn't be a LaMama without Ellen Stewart and there wouldn't be a Harvey without that and there wouldn't be an Estelle Getty without that. And it just makes me think of that. Like, could Dinah Shore have ever imagined that this is the journey that all of that would become? I know, I know. It's so cool. And it's, you know, we live in a world where there are precious, precious friends

few areas for lesbians to gather. We know there's only like 18 lesbian bars left in the country or something. There's an Instagram account about it. You know, there's not enough safe, secure spaces for lesbians to like hang out and meet each other and fucking party if they want. So go dine a short weekend. Love it. Love it. So Blanche is asking daddy to sit down and he says, oh, I can't stay, honey. I've got some business to attend to. Yes. And so, you know, if

but he's like, "I'll be back later tonight. I got a surprise for you." And then she is like, it's like her sweet 16th party. - I know. - Right? She's like, "Oh, did you get me something? What is it? What did you buy for me, Daddy?" - Oh, did you get me something? What is it? What did you buy for me, Daddy? - Well, nothing, sugar. - Oh, fiddle-dee-dee. - Fiddle-dee-dee. - This is so much fun. It's like being in Gone with the Wind. - Oh, fiddle-dee-dee.

It's so good. We need fiddle DD merch. We need it. We need fiddle DD merch. Oh, my God. So, you know, Blanche says, well, then what is the surprise, Daddy? And I love this. Big Daddy says, well, I was going to save it, but what the heck? And he puts his head down kind of shyly and sweetly. Yeah. He's a great actor. I love him. Yeah. I'm singing at the Sagebrush Club tomorrow night.

You doing what?

I, because remember that whole monologue about what a pillar of the community he was. He was a community leader and everybody loved the most important man in town. Yeah. He's now singing for his supper. Ah.

I so don't get where she's coming from in all of this episode. I'm with you. I'm with you. Because he's saying, I'm singing. That's my surprise. I want you and your friends to come and be my guests. And she just cannot get it. Right. And I'm saying, like, am I the only one who thinks this is so sweet? I do, too. Like, this old man. No, you're not the only one. In his twilight years, just, like, living his dream. I know. You do it. You get it, Big Daddy. That's right. This reminds me of, like, when actors were considered just scum.

scum of the earth for doing something so disreputable. Yes, exactly. And then he like runs out the door. He's like, I'll explain more later. Leave the key under the mat. That was when I was like, oh, shit, Big Daddy, you're staying at the house? I don't like it. I don't like it. He's staying in Coco's room. I don't like it. Like all the men who stay at the house, I want to see him in some pink floral bathrobe the next morning. I mean, I don't know where he's staying. I hate it. I don't want him staying there. And the thing is, we haven't heard that Blanche is bunking with one of the girls. I know.

I know. I don't like it. I don't like it. She's like, sing me to sleep, daddy. Sing me to sleep, big daddy.

They sing at the end. I know they do. They really do. Maybe that's how they sing themselves to sleep. Oh, my God. So he's left. They're still in the living room. And Blanche just can't believe it. And Rose can't either. Free tickets. My note here is Rose is my husband. So excited for free tickets. Doesn't matter what it's due. He's going. He's going. You get free tickets. He's totally going. Hey, you know. And Blanche is saying she's worried about him. She's going to call her sisters. And Dorothy, I just love what Dorothy yells at Blanche. Blanche! You're overreacting! Oh, come on, Blanche. You're overreacting.

reacting. If you're really concerned, why don't you talk to him? You're right. That's what I'm going to do. I'm going to stay completely objective and keep an open mind. I'm sure there's some perfectly logical explanation why my daddy's lost the stuffing out of his comforter. And I have a, since we're there, I have a, I have a ditty on Big Daddy. Oh, yes. Let's have it. The actor's name is Murray Hamilton. He was born in Washington, North Carolina. And he's a

And he displayed an early interest in performing during his days at Washington High School. He moved to New York City as a 19-year-old, very young, to find a career on stage. And he made his Broadway debut in Strange Fruit in 1945. Yes, Big Daddy! It gets better. He won a Tony Award. What? Yep, 1964 for Absence of a Cello. Wow. Yeah.

Because this is how most people know him, I just want to talk about how he was cast in Jaws. Oh, I didn't know he was in Jaws. Oh, yeah. He was in Jaws. He was the mayor. Oh, yeah. He was Steven Spielberg's first choice for the role of Mayor Vaughn in Jaws. And he was the only actor considered for that role. Steve.

Steven Spielberg has admitted on many occasions that he was a lifelong fan of Murray Hamilton's. At note, he actually played Anne Bancroft's husband in The Graduate. Oh! Yeah, he had a really nice career. So, like, Steven Spielberg knew him from, like, his bit parts. Yeah, and just, like, I love that. I love respecting a great actor, you know? Yep. So, for many, it's Murray as the mayor and not the shark that is the true villain of Jaws. But, really, it's thanks to his fantastic character

of this complicated man. He makes such a memorable impact, even though he's only on screen for about 10 minutes in the whole film. So some things to note. Murray Hamilton, the actor, passed away only four months after this episode of The Golden Girls aired. No way! We said it aired in May of 1986. By September, he was gone. Whoa!

So Murray Hamilton plays Rue McClanahan's father, even though he's only 10 years older than she is. They love doing that on this show. I know. Yeah. Yeah. In a guest appearance on Mama's Family, he played Betty White's uncle. Oh. You know, you said you love the Big Daddy episodes. Well, after his death, David Wayne replaced him as Big Daddy in season two in the episode Big Daddy's Little Lady. Oh. He's going to get married. Yes. And the stepmother's younger than him. Meet Big Mommy. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

That's so great. And then just as a sad coincidence, both these actors, they both died of lung cancer. Oh, no.

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Their luggage has smooth, shock-absorbing wheels for easy navigation on any terrain. Visit Briggs-Riley.com. So speaking of Big Daddy, next scene, it's nighttime. Big Daddy is very loudly trying to sneak into this house. I've got a hundred questions. Yes. He's got his guitar. He's banging. He's like...

With the guitar. He's like acting like he's trying to be quiet, but he's not actually trying to be quiet. This guitar clearly does not have a case. He's like carrying the guitar around. And I just want to note that like, I feel like this happens all the time. People are always trying to quietly sneak into this house. Nobody accomplishes it. No. It's very loud. It's very, very loud. And you know, she's been sleeping on the couch. She was trying to stay awake, you know, for him. Loving the purple bathrobe night set. Oh yeah. She looks gorgeous. She looks gorgeous. She's gotta look gorgeous for Big Daddy. I mean, they're sleeping together. So, sorry. Sorry.

Perhaps. I mean, where is he staying? What room is he sleeping in? By sleeping, I mean genuinely sleeping. What room McClanahan is he sleeping in? You know what? He's going to have sex with Rose and be dead by morning. Anyway. Wait, my joke was so funny. What was your, I didn't hear it. I said, what room McClanahan is he sleeping in? Oh.

That's cute. Get it? Room. Room. Not since the M in hamburger. Right. Totally. So she's been waiting up for him and of course he wakes her up. Oh, sorry, darling. I didn't mean to wake you. Yeah. And it's just like they have this conversation where he's like really excited about his new music career and Blanche is just like the big buzzkill. Like he's trying to be so positive about it. He believes like if he gets

out there. He's like, literally, if you build it, the audience will come, right? Right. Which is what any performer has to believe when they're just starting out. And he's just sharing his passion. Yes. You know, and everyone says, follow your passion, follow your bliss, and that's what he's doing. Right, and she's saying, you're talking about this like it's some kind of career, and he's like, girl, it is a career. Yeah. And then he sits down and he plays a song for her. Yeah. It ain't gonna worry me for long. It ain't gonna worry me for long. I'll get

Now, is it just me or is there a market for this kind of song? I think so. I was like, there's a little Willie Nelson in there. There's a little Johnny Cash. He sounded great. I mean, his chords are a little slow and that's okay. But he's, you know, he's a beginner and he's doing it for the love of it. Not because he's any good at it or in his words, he already knows. Exactly. But I do love

The audience definitely wanted to clap after the song, but they didn't know if they were supposed to. Well, I have here, I love how she paused to see if the applause would catch on. It doesn't. So then she continues. It doesn't. That was so savage. It doesn't.

Oh my God. So she asked him to put the guitar down. She really wants to talk to him. And here she really goes in on him here. She tells him he's being foolish. You don't talk to Big Daddy like that. Yeah, really harsh. She actually uses the word crazy and that sets him off. Yeah. That what he's doing sounds pretty crazy to her. And he says, now don't you sass me, Missy. And,

You know what? I gotta say, Rue is doing a great job. She really is playing different objectives here. Yeah, she does feel bad about that immediately. And she also, like, you can see the character of Blanche catch herself. Like, oh my God, this is Big Daddy. Like, you don't talk to him. And she's like, no, no, no, that's not what I meant. I'm not trying to sass you, Big Daddy. Yeah, she's like, I'm concerned. Now, I want you to promise me that you're gonna forget all about this nonsense and go back to Twin Oaks and have a nice long rest. Now...

this is where he lays out some knowledge. And I think we start to understand Blanche's motivation a little bit better here. Right. Because he says there is no Twin Oaks. He sold the whole thing. He sold the house. He sold the property. He sold everything. Yeah. And Blanche does not take this well. You what? Sold it. Sold everything. Well, if I'm going to go out on the road and do this thing right, I need money. All right. This has gone far enough. I will...

I will not allow you to disgrace yourself or your family. I absolutely forbid you to go on with this foolishness one minute longer. You forbid, Big Daddy? You're the one who's going crazy, girl. Less than the financial thing, it would have been nice to be told, you know, not that you have to, it's his house, but just the emotional connection to a home, right? But also, like, Blanche is a woman in her twilight years, and, like, I...

certainly have no inheritance coming to me when my mother dies. But if you're a person who has been expecting some kind of inheritance that's going to like carry you through and all of a sudden like you learn this kind of, I'm never a fan of children spending their parents' money. I'm not okay with that. But you would at least have thought that you would have mentioned it to her before he sold the property. Oh, it's so funny. I didn't take it at all that it was about her inheritance. I kind of took it as that's what it's

all about. Oh, interesting. I get, I can see both sides. You know what I took it as, and this is again, thematically what you feel from it. What I thought it was about is that thing, you get upset with someone when they don't follow the script that you have in your mind of them. Yes. And Big Daddy's not playing his part anymore. Right. Because he was the big respected man about town. In the fairy tale book of her, you know, her Southern Gothic novel, he's not playing that

part. And so I think it is destabilizing for her. Yeah. And I think it could be all of it. And again, we know that Rue really wanted to be given complicated shit. So I think it's layered. Like, you know, I think it's that it's the idea that her dad isn't the big respected man anymore. It's also like her childhood home is gone. Her inheritance is gone. Also, Big Daddy, if this doesn't work out and you spend all of your money like in the next year on the road, you're going to be living on my couch. You know, these are all the thoughts.

Yeah. That's right. That's right.

concerned looks on their faces. Like, too concerned. They come out looking like they now hate Big Daddy and they're not trying to size up what's going on. They're there to back up Blanche. And I'm kind of like, but she's the one being the asshole, ladies. So funny. I didn't take it that way at all. No, I

It's the same episode. No, I just, it's just not my impression. No, no, no, I know. I just thought that they heard loud voices. You know, like when her grandson's music was playing, like the voices have escalated. So they're coming to make sure everything's okay. To see what's going on. Yeah, yeah. He says, I'm sorry you had to witness this spectacle, ladies. It's hardly a spectacle, right? I know. It's just like two loved ones having a loud conversation. That's right. And so he apologizes and he goes to exit. Yeah. And she tries to get him to stay. And he says, too late. And he says, too late with his back turned, which I look, I felt that.

Yeah. You know. And he says, you know. You know, if there was some rain coming down and a soft train whistle in the distance, this moment would have the makings of a first-rate country song. Bye, Blanche. He says, bye, Blanche. Bye, Blanche. With his back to her. Yeah, on a very special Golden Girl outro music to commercial break. Yes.

Yes. So Big Daddy leaves. Blanche is feeling really guilty for losing her temper. And, you know, the girls are trying to comfort her. Dorothy's counsel that maybe it's not as serious as she thinks. Dorothy's just saying, like, maybe it's not as big of a deal because they didn't hear the part of the selling of the house. Right, right, right. So she's like, maybe he's just going through a phase. And this is where Blanche is like, no, no, no, girl. Like, he sold everything. That's right. He's off on some crazy lark, she says. And then she says, I never thought this could happen to my father.

Other people's parents get old and grow frail and need taken care of. But somehow I'd always thought Big Daddy would go on forever. You know, I love these writers. We've talked about it. And they've gone into the kitchen at this point. But the thing that's strange to me is, and I guess they have to switch it up from Rose's mother's visit. Uh-huh. But the thoughts don't connect for me. Because she says, I never thought this could happen to my father. Other people's parents get old and grow frail. Uh-huh. And I don't see any frailty here. The man just was out till two in the morning. Right.

Leave the key under the door. Don't wait up, Lance. I mean, he's pretty violent.

He's pretty vibrant. Yeah, he's been playing gigs. He's doing two in a night. So I just feel like there's a conflation of issues here that's not really, what is being said is not what is happening. Because Blanche is telling herself a story. What she is saying is my dad has lost his mind. He's clearly mentally unstable. And that's not the truth of what's happening. She's just not accepting. The only answer for her is that he must have lost it and now I have to care for him. Yeah, she's driving me crazy in this episode. I know.

In that blue dress? I'm like, just let him live, girl. Why can't we get her back in that outfit from Woodstock with the wings? Just be happy for him.

And isn't it funny, too, that for me, I would never, I guess the thing, because in my own life, you can't help but put your own self in there, right? Of course. That's what makes it so relatable. And for me, it would be upsetting if my dad sold the home because of the emotional connection to the home, not the money. Well, wait, and I'm putting the money on her. That's what I'm thinking. Well, who knows? And I'm not saying you're wrong. It's just fascinating to me how different human beings are about that kind of thing. Who knows? As a person with no inheritance coming to him, I'm like, but she had a whole inheritance coming to him.

to her. Well, the thing is, just because he sold it doesn't mean he has the funds now. Well, and I was also thinking it's got to be a ton of money. I mean, it must have been millions of dollars. Well, I don't know in $86, but you know, it wasn't a small home and lots of land. No, it was a

manor house on like acres and acres of land. Like, yeah, it would have been a lot of money. Right. Like, you know, I would say if you're traveling the country, staying at Motel 6 is playing the honky tonk. Like that can add up. Yeah, I guess so. With the brandy and cigars he likes. Yeah. So Dorothy is, you know, commiserating with her and invalidates her. Says, honey, we all think of our fathers that way. We remember them as strong and handsome and wise. And I have Rose brings tea to the table, which boiled really fast. Yeah.

I mean, they just got to that kitchen. I was also actually watching her. She's balancing three mugs and the kettle. Like, Betty White, good on you. Like, she knew how to do it. Yeah. But she tells this just, it's such a good, it's like, I love it when they do this. It's too serious that we got to get an insane story from Rose. I mean, I'll have whatever they're having when they write these things. I know.

I know. It's so funny. She basically is just telling a story about like, well, when I think of my father, I think of him dragging a giant tuna up a hill. They're like, don't we all think of them like that? You probably don't know this, but my hometown was founded by Heinrich von Anderdrennen. The first man to ever can tuna in its own natural juices. And.

Anyway, it was the 50th anniversary celebration of the founding of our town. My father was chosen to pull the float. He thought it was because he had the newest tractor, but actually it was because he was the only one small enough to fit into the mayonnaise jar costume.

To which I was like, wait, remember in Rose's dream when Grant's dad was an actual little person? So maybe he was. Maybe he was. I had that same thought. I know. But she had this really proud moment of when she caught sight of him turning off Sycamore onto Elm. Something must have happened to the tractor because there he was, this lone little mayonnaise jar dragging this giant tuna up the hill past the reviewing stand. I don't think I've ever been prouder in my life. And it's like, what's so great is that

Dorothy, like head in her hands, just like grabbing Blanche's arm. She looks to Rose and says, That's very touching, Rose. It shouldn't be, but it is. Halfway through, somewhere around the mayonnaise jar costume, the first time it was mentioned, Blanche and Dot hold hands just to get through it.

I just love the idea that it's like on second thought, that is a touching story. I know. I know. I know. Blanche says, you know, when I think of my father, I don't remember just one incident. I just know that he was always there to take care of me whenever I got into trouble, which was all the time. I just never dreamed that the day would come when the tables were turned and I'd have to take care of him. But I guess it has. It's kind of a repeat of old information. But all I have here is, girl, he just wants a hobby. He's fine. I know.

Exactly. He just wants to sing in a honky tonk. And sorry, no impression because she's just on my nerves at this point. I just want to get through it. Like, God damn, girl. I know, Blanche. I know. I know. So next thing, we're in the living room. They're all leaving. Blanche, Dorothy, and Rose are going out for Big Daddy's show. And

There's a moment here where Rose says to Sophia, like, are you sure you don't want to come? And Sophia says no. And she says it might be fun. And Sophia, once again, never missing a chance to be mean to Rose, says to you, Rose, but what do you know about a good time? Now, I think it was a victim of the editing because that line is funny and it didn't get a single laugh. Interesting. And so, like, it actually sounds mean because the audience doesn't react to it. And I think it's just a weird ending.

edit that and I was thinking this earlier have you noticed and this is based in fact everyone let me be perfectly clear it's a speculation on my part and it maybe is not true yeah but one of the things I've noticed in the last few episodes is how much Sophia departs scenes yes quite a bit and

And I'm wondering if it has to do with her memorization problem. Oh, yeah. That Stan was telling us about. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I do really like because we know that Sophia was originally only supposed to be in every third or fourth episode or whatever. Yeah. Because it really is. You know, I like that it is about the women of a certain age that are the same age. But it's a good question.

Well, listen, if you think of how short an episode is with four characters, how are you going to evenly distribute stuff between four, 10 minutes each and still tell the plot? Right, which is why they had to cut Coco. Yeah, you just don't have the bandwidth for that. So the doorbell rings, it's the Bartons, and he comes in, he says he's here, he wants to see the witch. To which the wife says, Leonard, don't call her a witch, you'll get another boil on your butt.

That's really gross. Yeah, so they've stormed in. Mrs. B is wearing a periwinkle sweatsuit. Mr. B gets down on his knee to surrender to Sophia. You've won. I'm begging you, take off the curse, will you? My golf clubs are missing. My clocks are all wrong. I can't sleep. I can't eat. You can't sit. That, too. Please take it off. Move the tree. You'll be out of here tomorrow. You got a deal. Dorothy says, you can't sit. Yeah.

That's in reference to the boil. To the boil on the butt. And so, you know, Sophia says she will only do it when he moves the tree. He says, it'll be out of here tomorrow. You got a deal. She burps in his face. Yeah, she puts her hand to her mouth and he says, does that mean it's gone? She's like, that means I shouldn't eat asparagus for dinner. So gross. But she snaps her fingers and that means it's gone. Yes. And she exits.

So he leaves. Mrs. Barton hangs back. That's right. To apologize for him being so awful. She says, I just wanted to apologize to you ladies. Leonard has been just terrible about this whole situation. That's why I did all those things to him. It was you all along. Except for the boil. That was just luck. Yeah.

Just luck. Mr. Barton comes back to get her. He yanks her out. He really manhandles her. Are we surprised? No, and I was kind of like, this was before the days of, I guess, asking that actress if she was okay with being handled like that. I mean, it bothered me. I don't like it. No, same, same. And, uh,

He says, if there's anything I can do to improve the relationship, I'd be happy to oblige. That gets like an ooh from the audience, like a sexy ooh from the audience. But Dorothy basically says, yeah, you know what? There is one thing you can do. When you go out to get the paper in the morning and you're in your robe, could you keep your dick inside the robe? Well, that's paraphrased. That's how it would be done in 2024. But yeah, he's, you know, he's Bucknagget Bendanova. So...

We're at what appears to be a honky-tonk. And is this the Sagebrush Club? I guess so, Sagebrush. Yeah, this is it. All right. And this is really funny. I just wrote, A, the sheer number of cowboy hats. Like, somebody had to go on a run to get— There's, like, 20 cowboy hats in this shot. Right, they're like, get the cheapest hats you can find. I know.

So Rose and Blanche and Dorothy enter. They all look equally terrified and interested. And then Rose asks if they're real cowboys. And, you know, Dorothy's got a good, funny answer. Of course, Rose. You can tell because they wear cowboy hats and drink wine spritzers and drive Volvos. Blanche, who do we see about our table? Well, I don't know. This is the first time I've ever been here. Well, howdy, Blanche.

Hi there, Blanche. Ladies. No, I'm wrong. I think the museum did have its Christmas party here. Busted. And then three cowboys come over and say hello to her by name. Oh, yeah. So we find out they have reservations for Big Daddy's second show of the evening, but to no avail because management...

canceled his second one once they saw it. Ouch. Now, if you'll bear with me for one second, I did a ditty on this actor. His name is Gary Grubbs. And you recognize him from stuff. Well, I did a ditty because I thought he was Gary Shandling.

I see the resemblance. I really thought he was Gary Shandling. Yeah, the mouth, yeah. If you Google them side by side, like they really do look a lot alike. But Gary Grubbs, like honestly, there's not a lot to tell. He like had a normal life. He did tons of sports all of his life, went to college for business, then graduated from college, was one day like asleep on the couch, heard a voice on the TV that was familiar. He opened his eyes. His roommate from college was a guest star

on Little House on the Prairie. Oh. Calls the roommate's parents to get that guy's number. That guy's like, come to LA, girl. The sky's the limit out here. And he's like, if you come out here, I'll show you the ropes. Gary Grebs gets out there, gets shown the ropes. He accumulates like over 200 TV and film credits. Yeah. Two like really big breaks was he played Leonardo DiCaprio's dad.

on Growing Pains in that season with Leonardo DiCaprio. And on the first two seasons of Will & Grace, he played Harlan Polk. That's what I know him from. There you go. He was Will Truman's number one client. But he had this really great long career. After 25 years, he and his wife moved back to, I think, Mississippi, where they're from. He teaches acting to this day. His wife is an artist. That's fantastic.

Yeah, he did it. Good job, Gary. Good job. We find out that Big Daddy's booking has been canceled. He had like two shows that night. The first one did not go well. They canceled the second one. Blanche goes back to find him. Yeah, he's backstage somewhere. And then I have...

i'm not really sure why this scene exists but anyway a guy named rusty comes over to flirt with rose and dorothy but he does it in this like weird old-timey like howdy ladies well because this is because of dorothy's joke before about the volvos and stuff yeah this is like cosplay right essentially right joint right because he's like howdy ladies my name's rusty i don't recollect seeing you two fillies around these parts

Mind if a lonesome cowboy puts his saddlebags around your campfire? Give us a break, would you, Mac? No!

She cuts him off. And also, even saddlebags. What a terrible sounding word, right? Saddlebags. So she goes back and finds Big Daddy in the dressing room. And this is just like a really sweet scene. I have here, too. Big Daddy has placed his guitar away and he's looking mighty handsome in a black and gray outfit. And Patrick, I have here, since you've been so honest about Stan, Big Daddy could get it. I agree with you. I agree with you. Big Daddy could get it. No question. Wait, we just have to do these two lines. You and me. Daddy? Sugar? Sugar?

I didn't expect to see you here. Papa Cheesecake? Sugar?

Sugar? Oh, my God. But it's like, did he really expect her not to come? I know. Like, whatever. I know. I mean, he lights up like a Christmas bulb when he sees her, too. It's so sweet. And she's just all apologizing. And he's so sweet. He's like, oh, don't worry. It's my own fault if I wasn't such a stubborn old fool. Yeah. And we don't know what he means. Right. You know, we all think he's, oh, he's depressed. He shouldn't have tried it. Right.

But no. No. He's just saying that he shouldn't have tried the Beatles medley. That's right. You know. And he says there's the next time. She can't believe that he's going to stick with it. And he's like, why not? And she's like, because they didn't like you. That's why not. You weren't any good. And we love Big Daddy because he says, honey, I know I'm not any good. Yeah. She doesn't understand.

And you know, I'm going to paraphrase his monologue here, but basically it's this beautiful, and I kind of love the staging of it because he's talking to her, but then he walks away from her and stares into middle distance, which if it was real, he'd just be looking at the wall of his dressing room. Exactly. But that's where the imaginary, you know, no longer with us. Why?

Well, right. So he's just saying that, like, you know, he was young. He was always adventurous and he wanted to go out and conquer the world. But then he met this woman with this beautiful hair and the blue eyes. And that's what you inherited from her. And when I looked into her eyes, I knew it wasn't time to go have adventures. It was time to build a family and build a life. And he loved the life that they built. And he knew that they would get to, like, have the adventures together later. And then she dies. And all of a sudden he's, like, left home alone in this big house. Yeah.

You know, and so he's sort of saying it's like now or never. And what else am I doing? That's right. He has no regrets, essentially, but he wants to fulfill those dormant dreams and adventures for himself. Yes. And she understands and she says, you always were there for me. I should have been there for you. Do you think you could ever forgive me? And he does tell us here, this is new information. He says, darn, the life's too short to not forgive my favorite little girl. And I'm like, shade, Virginia Charmaine. I know.

Oh, okay. I know. He's like, I know she used to electrocute you and say that it was you that did it to her. That's right. That's right. I know it was her. And they have I love you and I love you and then they just, they end with singing. Ready? I'll start it, Patrick. Yeah. It ain't gonna worry me for long. It ain't gonna worry me for long. I'll get up in the morning and I'll still be singing my song.

Aw, what a, it's a sweet episode. I love episode 24. I do too, sugar. Oh, Cheesecake, don't go anywhere. When we come back, I'm going to give you my deep dive on Ellen Stewart, who founded La Mama, which was the theater that gave us Torch Song Trilogy, which was the play that gave us Estelle Getty, which is the person who gave us So Trello. Woohoo! Yeah, it's a good deep dive. Stick around.

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All right, girl, I am very excited for my deep dive on Ellen Stewart. Yes, amazing human. Amazing human. So here's the deal, Cheesecakes. Ellen Stewart, just as a reminder, she was the founder of La Mama, which is an off-off Broadway theater space. La Mama is where Torch Song Trilogy with Estelle Getty began.

right? That's right. And Estelle Getty 100% got the role of Sophia Petrillo because she took Torch Song Trilogy on tour after Broadway. She took it to Los Angeles, which is where the producers first saw her and brought her in to read for Sophia. So it is my contention that there is no Estelle Getty as Sophia Petrillo without Ellen Stewart creating La Mama. Truly. And I just loved your deep dive, as did we all, on Torch Song Trilogy. And just...

the syzygy of, you know, him having his play even produced and the friend dying and then him being the assistant. Oh, my God. I'm going to give you a little bit of a reminder of that. And by him, we're talking about... The great Harvey Fierstein. So Ellen Stewart, once she became a well-known person, famously did not like to talk about her life before she arrived in New York City. And she definitely did not like to talk about her family. Although, like from the little we know, it seems like her family was very close.

So her history is sort of difficult to sort out because on the occasions she did talk about it, she would give like conflicting information. So we know she was born in 1919, but has given conflicting statements as to where she was born. Okay. So we believe it was either Chicago or Alexandria, Louisiana. We know that her father was a tailor. Her mother was a school teacher. She had a foster brother named Frederick Lights. Remember that name? That becomes important. Okay.

Okay. He would go on to go to the Yale School of Drama and was an aspiring playwright. And she had family members who had been in vaudeville and burlesque. So, like, show business wasn't, like, the main thing for the family, but, like, they were around it. It was adjacent. My family, too. Yeah. So there was, like, creativity, and it seems like the family was very close. Nobody knows why she doesn't like to talk about her family, but it seems like they all loved each other. Okay.

Okay. So it was around 1950 when Ellen Stewart, in her own words, says she fled to the East Village from her fifth marriage in the Long Island suburbs. I mean, I'm just impressed. Five. I'm exhausted. Five? Five.

All right. Her big plan upon arriving in New York City was to get a job in fashion, but she really struggled to find work. And she tells the story that one day she went to Midtown for a job interview, didn't get it. She walked out of the building where she'd been interviewing. She sees this big church across the street from a big store. And she went into the church, which we now know was St. Patrick's.

I was going to say it had to be. Yeah. She said a prayer. She came out and went into the store, which we now know was Saks Fifth Avenue. She said she had no idea what Saks Fifth Avenue was. She was just called to just wander around the store. So she's wandering around the eighth floor of Saks when she encounters a woman named Edith Lances. And Edith Lances had a whole department for her custom made bras and corsets. She was like a big deal in that world. And Edith

In the moment that Ellen is there, Edith is there frantically looking for a trimmer to cut the threads off the bras. And Ellen, who just didn't get the job a minute ago, is like, I can do that. So Edith like grabs her by the arm, takes her to the fourth floor and like instantly puts her to work. Right. Yeah. So creativity is like seeping out of Ellen during this period in her life. By the time she got the job at Saks, she'd been visiting a fabric store on Delancey Street downtown and she'd started making her own dresses.

And the owner of the shop encouraged her to become a fashion designer. But like, how do you do that? Like not knowing where to start. She just started wearing her own handmade dresses to work at Saks. Now, Ellen told the rest of the story in her own words to a newspaper called The Villager in 2006. And she said, and I've adjusted this just slightly to use updated language in a few places. But Ellen said, and I quote, in those days in Saks Fifth Avenue, the people of color had to wear a blue smock.

but at lunchtime, you could take the smock off. Rumors were flying all over Saks that an exotic black model was going around the store wearing Balenciaga clothes. We were all trying to figure out who this model was. It turned out it was me. And then all these white women started to ask what I was wearing. I was afraid of them, and Edith Lances thought I should have a better job and took me to Sophie Gimbel, who owned the store. Now, Sophie Gimbel said...

something so horrifically racist that I'm not going to repeat it here. God damn. But then going back on the record, Ellen said, yes, she really said that. So Edith Lance has decided I was going to be her executive designer. She said, you take off that smock. And from this day on, you are Miss Ellen. At that time in Saks, people of color were not allowed to be called Miss or Mr. Anything.

Well, they set me up in a workshop, a floor of my own, my own department staffed by 15 concentration camp survivors from Eastern Europe. Jesus. They give Ellen Stewart her own, this Black woman, this young Black woman, her own floor to design dresses at Saks Fifth Avenue. Like, unbelievable. Well, you know, I just had this thought, just like Harvey Fierstein and the syzygy of all of that. Yeah. You know, her not getting the job and then having to walk into Saks and the syzygy of that. And you could say the syzygy of this, but...

You know, it sounds also like she made her opportunities, too. Like, she seized the opportunities. She was, you know, she just, she could have shied away from them. Yeah. And she also really pays attention to the energy. Like, this will come up again, that, like, she felt sort of called to go into the church and then called to go over to Saks, like, for no real reason, but she just paid attention to her gut. And also, are you saying that only...

the African-American employees had to wear blue smocks. That's what she said. Jesus. Okay. So she does this dressmaking job for a while, but eventually quits in 1961 because she's so frustrated by the daily discrimination that she's facing. I bet. And she said that like then in disgust, she took herself off to Morocco to clear her head.

So it's 1961. And according to Ellen, she's in Morocco. She's out on a walk one day and she hears the voice of a man who had been really important to her in New York. It was the voice of an old Jewish man that she called Papa Diamond. And she knew him from her early years in New York when he had sort of... Not to be conflated with Papa Cheesecake, everyone. Ha ha ha!

We are in the same family, but we're loosely related. Loosely related. I'm sorry to interrupt. Please. She had known him from her early years in New York when he had sort of adopted her into his own family. And back then he had said to her, whatever you do for a living, always keep a push cart. Something you do because you love it, because it's

Good for people. Now, Papa Diamond was long dead by the time Ellen was on this trip in Morocco and was out on this walk and sort of heard his voice. But she swears she heard him say it to her in an earthly voice. You go back to New York, get a push cart, and I'm going to push it with you. And you're going to go anywhere you want. Mm-hmm.

She hears that. Now, same day, she's on the street in Morocco and she runs into a friend that she'd known in New York. And they get to talking. Again, what are the chances? What are the chances? Right. The friend says to her, you should go back to New York and open a theater. Now, this was something that had been on Ellen Stewart's mind for a long time at this point, because remember I mentioned her foster brother, Frederick Lights? Yeah. Well, after he graduated from Yale Drama School in 1955, he wrote a musical called The Vamp.

It debuted on Broadway in 1955 and starred Carol Channing as a farm girl turned film star. But Frederick's script had been heavily rewritten by the producers and the show was a huge hit.

huge flop to the tune of like $400,000 in like 1955 money. And Frederick quit the business in disgust and his foster sister Ellen hated this and for a long time had wanted to find a way to help him get his work produced. And so having had this conversation in Morocco and hearing Papa Diamond's voice in her head, she said the very next day she left Morocco with the intention of going back to New York and starting a theater in part to produce her brother's work.

And give them a safe space. Yeah, exactly. So she gets back to New York and finds a basement space in the East Village available for $50 a month at 321 East 9th Street. Now, the basement space had not been used since the building was constructed decades earlier. So it required hours of trash removal and cleaning. And she and a few friends built a wood floor on top of the dirt floor using wood that they had salvaged from orange crates. Yeah. Bada bing, bada boom, they had a theater. And they called it La Mama after Ellen herself, who'd been given the nickname.

named by the actors and playwrights she was attracting to the space. So La Mama was off and running, but it was clear from the start that they didn't really know what they were doing. So this is like such a great story that really encapsulates that. One of their earliest productions was Harold Pinter's The Room.

At the time, it was a brand new play that was set to have its New York debut at the much fancier Cherry Lane Theater just a few days after it was going to open at La Mama. And nobody at La Mama had gotten the rights to the show. And so the playwright was not going to make any royalties on the show. So the day before opening at La Mama, Harold Pinter and his

agent show up at the basement theater and demand to speak to this quote mama person. This becomes a debacle so quickly. Ellen apparently calmly tried to explain to Pinter that she didn't have any money, but she hoped that she could produce all of his plays. Now this incenses the

agent who screams at Ellen saying that nobody can produce Pinter's plays without her, the agent's consent. That incenses Harold Pinter, who starts screaming at the agent, since when can Harold Pinter not put on his own work? Wow. So he then turns to Ellen Stewart and says, my dear lady, I hereby give you permission to do the room as many times as you'd like. Wow. It was chaos. Nobody knew what was going on. The goal of La Mama at the time was to have a show performing at

every night of the week. So they said sometimes they could maybe get an audience of 10 people. They would literally pull people in from off the street to watch the shows. And right from day one, they also created the tradition that Ellen Stewart would ring a cowbell at the top of each performance to get people to stop talking and then make an announcement. Welcome to La Mama, dedicated to playwrights and all aspects of theater. And she would do that for every show until the day she died. I think we need a cowbell in our podcast somewhere. We do.

Right? I'm very cowbell positive. Absolutely. Absolutely. Let's think about it. We'll think about it. All right. So Paul Foster, who was La Mama's resident designer, said of those lean years, if somebody needed to make the coffee for the customers, I would make the coffee. If there was some woodwork that needed to be done, I would get the nails and I would nail it together.

I'm going to cry.

cry. Like the power of theater and the scrappiness of like off-off-Broadway theater in the 50s. It's just so fucking cool. That's what I love. It's like we think of these places now as legendary places, but they started out as startups, essentially. Literally, with no money, people just doing the best they could, you know, not even really knowing what they were going to do day to day. So over the next few years, La Mama continued to grow in popularity. That

coupled with demanding landlords, a slew of racist neighbors, and city officials enforcing strict capacity limitations meant that La Mama had to move several times. And Ellen was convinced that the only way around all the problems in the city government regulations was to get their own theater. So Ellen's tour begins looking for grant money. Now, of course, she has no idea that there's actual protocol.

to doing this kind of thing. So in 1967, Ellen naively just picks up the phone and calls the Ford Foundation. Good girl. And extends an invitation to visit La Mama. They take her up on it. Listen, side story. I was having a hard time getting a HELOC at one point just because... What's a HELOC? A home equity line of credit. Uh-huh. And I had met the

president of Bank of America at a theatrical event, let's say. Okay. And they were kind enough to give me their business card. If you ever need anything, give me a call. And I was like, you know what? I need a home equity line of credit, girl. You know, I went straight to the top, as Georgia Hardstock would say, you know? Yeah. And did it happen? Yeah. The

The point is, they really helped us like cut through all the red tape. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's complicated getting normal person things when you're an actor and you get paid differently. It's just they don't, computer systems don't understand it. I'm a podcaster, I get it. Yeah, so that's all. Well, the Ford Foundation takes her up on it. Like she cold called Ford Foundation and this man, McNeil Lowry and his wife go to attend a performance. They are blown away. So after the performance, Ellen brings them to the fifth

Street Deli and charms them over hot dogs and sauerkraut. And she just makes her pitch. Works every time. Works every time. She tells him she needs $10,000 for a down payment on a building at 74A East 4th Street, along with a $15,000 check to renovate the four-story space as a theater.

And so a week later, in November 1967, La Mama received its first foundation grant of $25,000. What a goddamn heroine. I mean, Ellen Stewart, oh my God. La Mama's newly acquired building, a former hot dog factory, needed a lot of work. Two floors were made into theaters that sat 85 people. One floor was set aside for rehearsal space. And on April 2nd, 1969, a renovated and newly renamed La Mama Experimental Theater Club opened its doors to the public.

It's wonderful. You know, to this day, you still get a slight whiff of pork on Wednesdays at 2 p.m. As they're ringing the cowbell. And then get this. Five years later, in 1974, Ellen Stewart opened the annex down the street from the 4th Street building, which houses a

295 C Theater. Both of these buildings are still owned and operated by LaMama today. I'm going to sob. I know, I know. I'm going to sob. I know. So Ellen Stewart lived and worked at LaMama basically until the day she died. One of the renovations that they did was they made her an apartment at the very top of the thing so she could stay and oversee it. She cooked for the artist almost every day. She never really took a salary. Instead, putting everything she would have made back into the theater. She would introduce the shows and then go sit on the steps outside to shush people and prevent interruptions. Love it.

Mm-hmm.

She was adamant that central to her missions was the freedom for artists to experiment without commercial pressure. We talked about this a bit in the Torchton Trilogy deep dive, but when it came to choosing plays to be done at La Mama, she often said that she didn't read the plays, she read the people, meaning the playwrights. She said, if a script beeps to me, I do it. Audiences may hate these plays, but I believe in them. The only way I can explain my beeps is that I'm no intellectual, but my instincts tell me automatically when a playwright has something.

And now when it comes to Torch Song Trilogy at La Mama, we covered this in the Torch Song Deep Dive. But remember, she didn't want to do it at first. It was not one of the plays that spoke to her. But when her assistant was killed in that bathhouse fire and she asked Harvey Fierstein to come replace him for a time, in return, she would produce his play. And remember, it was his director that said to Harvey, tell her it's actually three plays to get her on the hook to produce, you know, three of your productions. Mm-hmm.

But that was how we ended up with Estelle Getty playing the mom in Torch Song because Harvey was at a loss as to what to write for the third play in Torch Song, if you remember. And Estelle, who he knew just from like the off-off Broadway scene, challenged him by saying, give yourself a mother and I'll come and play her. And the rest is history. And that La Mama and Torch Song and Estelle Getty and the Golden Girls will always be connected. I love it. So Ellen Stewart died in January 2011 at age 91.

At the time of her death, La Mama has supported more than 5,000 productions featuring 150,000 artists from 70 nations. Wow. After her death, Harvey Fierstein said to Vanity Fair, 80% of what is now considered the American theater originated at La Mama. She had an instinct. She didn't read scripts. She was the first to tell you, I don't read scripts. She didn't watch very many of the shows. She wasn't all that interested.

What interested her was being Mama and inspiring people to do work. What an incredible human being. Yeah. So, you know, the Annex, the space with the 215-seat theater, was renamed the Ellen Stewart Theater in a gala celebration in November 2009. La Mama also has an art gallery, a six-story rehearsal and studio building nearby, and an extensive art gallery.

archive on the history of off-off broadway theater which i just think is so cool and today over 100 productions with over 400 performances are staged at la mama each season that's really inspiring yeah i know a lot of actors listen to this and it's just you know yeah learn more about theater history i think it's so interesting and and i really believe that without ellen stewart creating la mama somebody else would have played sofia petrillo on the golden girls probably

right. You know, I'm sure you're right. Well, thanks for listening to my deep dive, girl. Thanks for doing it. It was wonderful. And I love your passion about it. And it made me made me tear up. Oh, well, cheesecake. I hope you teared up, too. If you teared up, I'm going to ask you a favor. Share this episode with five of your friends that you think would also tear up at a Golden Girls deep dive. Yeah, please. Maybe join the Facebook group, too. It's called the Golden Girls Deep Dive Podcast Discussion Group. You did that so well. Thank you, girl.

Yeah, and if you have something to write to us, we make Steve read it. It's true, but he does pass it on to us. He does, he does. But it's info at goldengirlsdeepdive.com. Yep, that's it. You nailed it. I nailed it. Just a quick reminder, I'm heading out on tour in February and I want to meet all of you. Come and see me in Seattle, Los Angeles, Salt Lake City, Denver, New Orleans, Indianapolis, and Kansas City with more cities to be announced soon. Tickets and info are available at patricktours.com.

We love you, Cheesecakes. Thanks for hanging out with us. Bye. See you later. Bye.

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Hey, Cheesecakes. I want to tell you about another podcast I really think you should check out. It's called Voices for Justice, and it's made by my friend, Sarah Turney. So Sarah's not just a true crime host. She's an advocate who has firsthand experience advocating for victims and their family members in the true crime space.

So Sarah Turney began Voices of Justice by discussing her own sister, Alyssa Turney's true crime case. And while Alyssa's case is now awaiting trial, she's covering other cases in need of justice. The podcast doesn't just cover cases in the traditional way. Each episode ends with a call to action with at least one actionable step to help cases in need of justice.

The show features exclusive audio interviews with families, victims, and advocates. And it features a mix of popular true crime cases as well as those virtually unknown to the media. Sarah often works directly with members of the victim's family to better understand their specific case needs. I love Voices for Justice. I've been listening to it from the beginning. Sarah is such an incredible advocate. I cannot recommend enough that you go and find Voices for Justice wherever you listen to podcasts.

Cheesecakes, Patrick here. The holidays are upon us and we just wanted to let you know you are going to be getting episodes from us every single week. We are taking no time off for the holidays. Just make sure you're subscribed to the Golden Girls Deep Dive podcast so you get our episodes as soon as they drop. And we love you.