A Family Affair (Season 2, Episode 7)
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Hi, Jennifer Simard. Hi, Patrick Hines. I'm feeling silly today. I don't know why. I'm feeling a little silly. I know. Well, you just dropped your phone and your computer and the mic's down, so maybe that's why. I'm also feeling silly. Do you want to know why? Please. So, Cheesecakes, these reading glasses that I'm wearing, this is a little trick that I use sometimes. Based on where I am with my eyesight, sometimes I don't like to have any glassware. Yep. But I do like to cover up the bags under my eyes. Stop it. So these are readers with the lenses popped out.

She just stuck her fingers through her glasses. It was like an act of magic. Wow. Because, you know, the bottoms of them are covering up the

The crevasses. No, your face is perfect. Right, because I'm wearing glasses. Ah, with the sorcery of it all. The sorcery. So that's a little tip from your friend, Jen. Oh, Cheesecakes, how are you? We love you. How's it all going? How's death becomes, huh? Wonderful, wonderful. You know, living the dream. There and here. Amazing. Well, look, what are we talking about today? We are talking about season two, episode seven. This is entitled...

family affair. Oh, weird. Mine is titled The Hot Actor Who Plays Michael Spornak. God, I thought of that the whole time. The slatatiousness of this episode for you. He's so cute. I remember, like, thinking that he was cute and then somebody was like, what are you talking about? I think Stan was like, what are you talking about? He's not cute. No, it was me. Was it you? It was me, but I have to say, now watching the episode as an adult, I can see the appeal. But at

But younger, I was like, no, no, no. But I have to say now, yes, yes, yes. I see it. But I mean, I still don't think for me it wouldn't be a go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. But I can. For you, it would be a no. It would be like I said in a prior episode. It would be a hard pass. Okay, great. But I do recognize that he's attractive. Maybe I could go three hours with Michael Spornak. Maybe he'd be the one to get me going for three hours. That's all I'm saying. You get Dorothy as a mother-in-law. Like, it's a win-win. You'd go rounds with him. I would go rounds. You would go rounds. Well, now I'm getting old.

getting it all hot and bothered. Oh, I'm sorry. Oh my goodness. All right. It's written by Winifred Hervey, directed by Terry Hughes, original air date, November 22nd, 1986. And if I'm being honest, nothing all that interesting happened that week in real life. So I don't have any current events. You know what? I was going to do the same thing. And then at the last second, in case you didn't have anything, I pulled the number four song. Not three. Number three was True Blue by Madonna. All right. Well, this wasn't even on the podium, folks, but it was number four, top five. And it was Bon Jovi's song, but

Here's the thing. I only know, like, literally the title of the song. I couldn't tell you the rest of the tune. Here we go. You give love a bad name. Bad name. Bad. Take my shot and you play your game, darling. You give love a bad name.

name. You're a rock star. Shot through the heart. Oh, shit. And you're to blame. Oh, my God. I used to go to the gym with Jesse Bon Jovi, his son. And I gotta tell you, looks just like his dad. And it's super duper nice. Well, there you go. And you said nothing happened this week. Our apologies, Bon Jovi. Our apologies to Jon Bon Jovi, who apparently wrote an amazing memoir and doesn't do the singing anymore. Because how could you after all those years of doing that? Exactly. You know, well, should we jump in? Let's do it.

So we open in the living room. Once again, with Sophia sneaking in for food. Do they feed her? She loves to sneak. Do they keep her in a cage? Somebody needs to tell me. They keep her out in the garage with the minks. Time to feed the minks and Sophia. Like she sneaks in, once again, wearing 18 layers, looking for food. Dorothy enters. Dorothy's wearing a simple yellow sweater. She is, my note here, finally something not the color of a bodily function. It's true. I would say good for you, Dot, stepping outside of your comfort zone in 1986. Although, it's true.

and still basically a poncho blouse. I know. Right? It's so long. It is a mid-sized sweater for her. Does she have 10 dressers? Where do they all fit? I know. But, and also, I have to say, the poncho blouse is placed over a light blue collared shirt, presumably to protect it. I don't understand. I just feel like... So she's been finger painting? Right. I don't really get it, but anyway. Well, she scolds her mother. Ma, what do you think you're doing? It's a funny little habit I picked up. I call it eating.

Look, Rose made this for her daughter. Now, you know you're not supposed to eat it until she gets here. Oh, please. There's enough food here to feed my entire village in Sicily. Right, because Sophia's gone straight to the charcuterie spread, which is gigantic, by the way. It's a ton of food that nobody ever actually eats. Like, she yelled at her mom for trying to, like, have a little snack. Yeah. And she's not allowed to have any. We're going to learn this is for Rose's daughter who's arriving. Right. And Rose has made all of her favorite foods and put them out, but then nobody eats any of them. By the way, we meet Rose's daughter. She's a star.

Right. You know what I mean? And Michael, who also we all know is coming up. Hubba hubba hubba hubba hubba hubba. You know, he just sort of chowed down. Totally. Just eating like a boy. Exactly. You know, crumbs everywhere. Blanche enters hunched over. And I said, for the first time, Blanche looks not as youthful. Yep.

I agree. She is wearing, this time she gets like the ugliest top award, I think. That's usually me when I go to the bars. Oh, okay. You know what I mean? Well, she's wearing this light blue oversized shirt with black checkered stuff on it. I do have to say, though, I loved her accents in this outfit. The royal blue accents down to her socks. Yes, yes. Right? The top, the purse, the socks. Well, because she went to an aerobics class.

Right. So she's in like her aerobics outfit. Right. Remember when aerobics was like a thing? Yeah. You would go on like jazzercise or whatever? Jazzercise, yeah. And she's thrown her back out is the issue. Yes. And we get the reason as to how she threw her back out. What? Oh dear, Dorothy, can you hear me?

help me with the chair. Oh, my back gave out. I figured that would have been about the third thing to go. Honey, what happened? Well, I was in my aerobics class when I noticed this gorgeous man checking me out. So during the buttocks lifts, he motioned for my phone number. Well, I didn't want to appear easy, so I rolled over on my back and flung my legs over my head. That's what I call giving him the brush off.

And she describes something the way we never describe it. She says during the buttocks lifts. No one calls it buttocks lifts. That's the surgery, for God's sake. But anyway. The buttocks lift is the gay bar I was at when I was the ugliest top. Oh, no.

I mean, it's really funny. Sophia says, no, that's what I call giving them the brush off. But my whole point here is no straight man is going to aerobics. I'm sorry. Like, fight me. But no straight man is going to aerobics. Step aerobics. Right. Totally. In the 90s. That was a little later than the gals here. But yeah. No, no straight man is going to aerobics. If this man was asking for your number, he wanted to know where you get your highlights done. I'm going to say you're right. I'm going to say you're right. Yeah.

If there's a straight man out there who's been to a single aerobics class, show yourself in the Facebook group with a picture and what you wore. So,

So there's a doorbell and Dot goes to answer the door and lo, it's her son Michael in a sea of denim who has surprised her. Oh, he's so cute. And the thing about Michael and this actor has such an easygoing vibe. Yeah. Because he's meant to be like a young artist. He's like 29 or whatever. Like he's a jazz musician. And that really comes through. Like he really does. He's not bothered. Yeah. I

I think that's part of his attractiveness. 100%. And something I didn't quite appreciate, like I did with the actress who played Dorothy in the flashbacks, is what a great casting job they did with him because he really looks like he could be the son of the actors they have playing Stan and Dorothy. I have a mini deep dive on him in a minute, but what's interesting is

he is the real life older half brother of the guy who played Blanche's grandson, David. Yeah. But also, Michael shows up completely unannounced. Would you ever? No. And I gather that later at the very end of the episode where Bridget says, do you want to share a cab to the airport? I'm like, okay, so he had enough time to catch a flight. Yeah, exactly. You wouldn't have called from the airport? That's what I'm saying. But then I was thinking,

I was thinking if I had a mother who lived in Miami and I lived in New York, which is where I currently live, and it's a frigid negative 10 degrees every day right now. And I could just hop a flight to Miami anytime. I guess I might show up unannounced or whatever. It definitely would have thrilled my parents to have surprised them. But to his point... Not my mom. My mom would have been like, where are you staying, kid? But I will say, to Michael's credit, he says he'll stay somewhere else. That is true. Because that is the appropriate thing. I also feel like my husband, Michael...

Didn't necessarily make the decision of where he was going until he got on the flight. He like got to the airport, knew he wanted to go somewhere warm. Saw like what flights were leaving in the next hour. Was like, oh, I know someone in Miami. I'll go there. Someone. That's how like Michael lives. I feel like he flies by the seat of his pants. Exactly. It's one of the things that attracts me to him. You know what I mean? We have some great reversal jokes, as our good friend Stan Zimmerman might call them. Yeah.

Oh, my God, it is Michael! Oh, Michael! Look, Ma, it's Michael! Oh, honey, what a surprise! You look great. Oh, am I glad to see you. Honey, I have missed you so... Why the hell haven't you written, you little ingrate? Please, Dorothy. He's a big-time musician in New York. You think he has time to write letters home? Hi, Grandma. Don't hi me. You can't pick up a phone and call your own grandmother?

And then my note here is like, there was a time when we kept in touch via letter. Why haven't you written? I know. Like he was going to sit at his desk and write a letter to his mother. I know. Send it by carrier pigeon. Can you imagine? Seagull. You know that Dorothy is of the days of the Pony Express. Like we know she was probably a postmaster. Wax seal. Ha ha ha.

What with those nightgowns? I mean, from the Civil War collection, we're going to see one of them in this episode. We are. We are. And I love, too, that, like, Grandma, of course, assumes he's like a big time musician in New York. Oh, yeah. He's a good guy. Yeah. And she clearly loves him. I mean, Sophia uncharacteristically has a smile from ear to ear and or smirks, you know, like she definitely loves her grandson. 100 percent. So Dorothy introduces Michael to Blanche. This is actually a really funny moment.

What has she written in the letters to him about Blanche? Oh my goodness, the letter writing. I know, I have get it? And Dorothy hits her son.

But anyway, they sit on the couch and we learn he's visiting because his gig at the jazz club, quote, ended early. But really, he was fired because he wouldn't consent to the dress code. We soon find out. Which is funny. So Michael gets fired because the boss of the jazz club wants everyone in the band to wear ties and Michael won't wear a tie. And this is where Michael and I are having our first relationship issue.

You know what I mean? Because it's sort of like, girl, just wear the tie. You know what I mean? Well, and that sort of sets up the conflict with Dorothy later on. Yes. Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? Because it sort of shows that he doesn't... Like, he's trying to say he puts his art above, you know, whatever. Like, he's doing it for the good of the art. He's not wearing the tie. But then you don't get to play the gig. Right. To Dorothy's point about responsibility. Yeah. So this is all a primer coat for that. Yeah. So...

Rose opens the door and she's with her daughter, Bridget. Now, Rose is introducing everybody to Bridget. Bridget, this is Blanche. Hi. And Dorothy. And

And Sophia and a total stranger. Honey, this is my son, Michael. He's going to be staying with us for a few days. This is where I'm like, the roommate situation is a little dicey here because everybody obviously knew that Bridget was coming. Yeah. Accommodations have been made for that to happen. But now without asking anybody, Dorothy's now just having her male son come and stay with them. And nobody's mad about it. Correct. I have in parentheses didn't ask.

But OK. And I said, like you, we had each other's notes. I said, presumably Bridget was planned. And then I said, is there a house guest calendar? But honestly, honestly, there should be. And I was thinking, too, maybe I'm wrong because I don't watch that much TV anymore. But I feel like we don't see these kinds of characters on sitcoms anymore. Like, right. You've got like the son that comes in and gets a whole episode. Right. The niece that comes in and gets a whole episode. We don't really see those characters anymore. Yes, that's a good point.

But Michael, as we said earlier, correctly so, says, Ma, you don't have the space. I'll take a room somewhere. And finally, we have someone who thinks, oh, duh, there's a couch. Blanche, of all people, says, don't be silly. You can have my room with my bad back. I'll just camp out on the couch.

Because that wasn't offered to Bridget. So like, obviously Rose and Bridget are sleeping together. So isn't Rose now pissed that Michael the interloper is getting the full bed? But also, can we talk about this for a second? Do you have qualms about sleeping in other people's beds? Because I definitely do. If I'm not making love to you, I don't want to sleep in your bed.

If I let myself think about it too much, yes. Like, I used to love hotels, and now I'm like, can I just bring, like, one of those blue light ion cleaners to every room? Like, weirdly, hotels are fine, but, like, if you go away for the weekend and you have this beautiful house somewhere and you're like, come stay in my house for the weekend, I'm like, oh, I'm sleeping in Jen's bed. That's weird. You're weird. I know.

It's funny. Once a year, we give up our apartment to this organization that I work with. And the people sleep in my bed. And I'm like, she's going to be sleeping in my bed tonight. And it makes me awkward. Well, yes. Them sleeping in your bed. But you sleeping in their bed is different. It's just like there's something about sleeping that is so intimate. It's weird to do that in somebody that you know's space.

you know i do agree with that i do agree with that especially like the blanche of it all like first of all it's also i know it's so the show can happen but it's so unrealistic that blanche would willingly just give up her bed to michael oh i know disgusting boy from new york who doesn't shower it's another thing he and i talk about all the time this is so the opposite of everything we've come to know about blanche i mean first of all it's not narcissistic in the least um but also i will say i think

didn't Dorothy's friend Jean offer to sleep on the couch? Yeah. So at least, you know, some people are thinking about the couch, but like none of these girls have thought of it. So, but again, I know make Michael sleep on the couch. I just, gross boy, Michael sleep on the couch. Absolutely. That is why even I didn't think of it.

I was like, of course he goes to Blanche's bed. At the end, well, because we're spending so much time on it now, I will say this. There's a problem here when Blanche says, oh, could you bring me back my, and then she's like, it's on my dresser. Uh-huh. And it's something of Bridget's. Presumably that Bridget is staying in Blanche's room. Oh, interesting. Oh, right. Michael. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? Uh-huh. Or something. We'll get there. Yeah, we'll get there. We'll get there. Also, we meet Bridget now, and I don't like her. Like, right away, I don't like her.

I think Rose's kids suck. I think they've got attitude. Yeah. I didn't like the other one, Kirsten. I thought she was like from the jump. I was like, what's her problem? I understand. Well, they are. Yeah, they're uppity. Totally. And we learned that Bridget's going to Oxford. Like she's going to be going to Oxford for college. And I do think this is like an interesting choice because we met Kirsten. She was like a lawyer or something. Like she had a really big job and Bridget's got like she's going to like Rose's

kids are really smart. Yeah. And Rose is like the simple flighty one, which I think is an interesting choice to write the kids that way. And Betty White was in her 60s, right, when she filmed this. And so I'm looking at Bridget, who's clearly in her 20s, you know, and it's just like, OK, so she had her in her 40s. You know, even though we know that by 40, she'd been a widow for 15 years. So that's what was messing me up.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Also, the actresses back then just look older. It's like the hair is so much bigger. The big 80s hair. The big 80s hair, the big 80s clothes. You know, I have a little deep dive on the actress who plays Bridget. Oh, lay it on me. All right. So her name is Marilyn Jones. She's the oldest of four siblings born to a surgeon father. She was raised in the affluent Detroit suburb of Grosse Pointe. After graduating from high school in Michigan, she graduated from the University of Colorado with a humanities degree.

After a stint in New York, waiting on tables and working as an office clerk in between acting jobs, because she wanted to be an actress, she was signed with 30 other performers to Columbia Pictures' Talent and Development Workshop and sent to Los Angeles. Good for you! I mean, I don't think that kind of thing happens anymore. I don't think so either. But the program...

unfolded when the executive who ran the studio at the time resigned. But through this, she did land an agent and she began acting on episodic television shows such as this one and some of my favorites such as Matlock and Murder, She Wrote. But I remember her, I have to tell you, I remember loving her as a series regular. And I wish the series had run longer on a show called King's Crossing. And it starred her along with

an actress who's very well known who played her sister and that actress was named Linda Hamilton. Linda Hamilton from like Terminator? And this was before Terminator, I think. Oh, wow. Or just around then. Yeah, but it was, she was very young. She had the

the cutest curly hair. And unlike what you just said, she looked super young in this episode. Was it Hamilton? No, this actress who played Bridget, Marilyn Jones. But I remember loving her. And of the two sisters, I kind of wanted to be her. Oh, funny. Isn't that funny? So I've always liked this actress. Even if we don't like the character of Bridget, I like the actress a lot. I don't know why I don't like her. I think I just, the Lindstrom bloodline, I'm just not into it. They're much more worldly than Rose, right? Yes.

Well, you don't like any of the Nylons. You don't like Rose either. I don't like the Nylons. I don't like them. And she's mean to Michael right off the bat. And he's like just this sweet, stinky artist. Well, you say mean. I say flirty. Okay. Because what I have here is how many times, Patrick, have you ended up finding the person attractive that at first you hated? Oh, about every single time. That happens a lot. Cheesecakes, they're with. Except for my husband, which was legitimately love at first sight. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. But at Cheesecakes, they're with us. You know that person, you're like, I don't like this about them. I don't like. And then the sex is so good. You have that angry through your teeth sex. Yeah.

Sorry, one more time. What does it look like? Oh my God. I am now, I will always think of Jennifer Simard's gritty, angry through her teeth. You're going to take it.

Who's on top and who's on bottom now? Oh, my stars. Oh, that's so good. Oh, I don't know. Cheesecakes, thanks for listening to the episode. I, uh, whoo!

Oh, man. Oh, God. So Bridget tells us that she found a terrific flat on campus and Michael makes a dumb joke. Oh, Michael, it's nice meeting you. Dorothy's told us so much about you. This is my daughter, Bridget. Hello. Bridget's on her way to study at Oxford in England. And I found a terrific flat on campus. Oh, that's great. I hear the commute from here is a killer. Pardon me?

It was a joke. Cute. Where do you go to school, Michael? Well, college isn't really my style. I attend the school of life. Really? A lot of people go there when they can't get accepted anywhere else. Cute.

Jennifer Smart, is this how straight people flirt? Yeah, it can be. Yeah. There's that thing. I remember even schoolyard kids flirting. You always knew the boy had a crush on you when he'd tease you. Oh, God. You know what I mean? I hate that. So at least in straight people land, it is not the only way to flirt, but it's not uncommon for the straights to... To antagonize each other? To tease each other, yeah.

Okay, so that's what's going on. You think they both know that they're flirting? Yes, because we have a callback right away. I just wrote, shots fired, Bridget. And I said, if I'm Rose, am I horrified? If I'm Dorothy, am I horrified? Well, if you're Rose, you're not because...

That bitch is the one that completely started that fight coming up with Dorothy. Oh, listen. I mean, four insults. One after another, after another, after another. I can't remember the words I used to describe Rose, but when we get there, I'm like, I have words for her. But I just was like, I guess this is how straight people flirt? We've been over this. Let me slow down. Okay.

It is not the only way straight people flirt. Uh-huh. I'm guessing some gays flirt this way, too. I guess so. I guess so. Give me the gritted teeth angry sex again. You're going to take it. You're going to lick it. Yeah, that actually does sound like the flirting of my people. In fact, that does. I do recognize that flirting. No, that's not the flirting. That's the post-flirting when this person that you've been teasing that you kind of hate and you decide to get it on. Then it's completely. That's the doing. That's the angry rage sex. And you can keep that up for three hours, you say. Yeah.

Yeah. Wait, wait, with breaks. Oh, God. You know the male anatomy. You need breaks. I guess that's true. In between the rounds. Oh, man. I, oh, God. Gotta refill the coffers, you know? Get over here. Get over here. Oh, my God. So we learned that Rose is- You know who I'm thinking about right now? What? Our good friend from What Not to Wear. Oh, your boyfriend, Clinton Kelly? He came over to my house for a drink the other night. Oh, I love that. But I love that he is laughing right now. Get over here. I know.

All right. So we learned that Rose is made of all of Bridget's favorite foods. She's so annoying. She loves wooden shoes carved out of cheese. And I said, Patrick, can you imagine carving anything out of cheese, let alone making them look like wooden shoes? But I feel like she does it because Bridget makes her. Oh, I don't think Bridget makes her. Bridget throws a fit if Rose doesn't make it the way she likes it. She's mean to my Michael. Oh.

So I'm going to do the deep dive on my boy Scott Jacoby right here, if that's okay. My boyfriend, Michael. Okay. So Scott Jacoby was born on November 26, 1956 in the Chicago suburb of Skokie, Illinois. And his family moved to Queens in New York City when he was nine years old. Money was very tight. And his mom, Dolores, who was an aspiring actress and singer herself, she was working as a hostess at the World's Fair. Oh. Good for her. Okay, cool. But she worried that Scott wouldn't have money to pay for college. Okay.

And she thought that he was like a cute kid. So she was like, let me take him to a commercial agent and see if like while he's young and cute, he can make some commercials and like pay for school. And so they get to the commercial agent and she literally says to them, he's not all American looking enough for her and says he would do better in theater. And the mom was like, I don't know about that, but takes him to one audition for a professional production of The Music Man. It's his first audition. He books it. He's making 132 bucks a week playing the role of Winthrop Winthrop.

Yeah. Do we know that role? Yes, it's a great role. What part does he sing? Isn't he the one with like... Gary, Indiana, Gary, Indiana. Well, I don't know, but he's the little boy. He's like the little boy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the one who just did it with Hugh and Sutton was marvelous. So can I say, we went to see The Music Man. Steve dragged me kicking and screaming. I didn't. Over my dead body did I want to go see that show. I loved it.

I was screaming my head off. I loved it so much. Anyway, so Scott books this gig. He's making $132 a week, which is the equivalent of $1,300 a week in today money, which is a lot. And then at the age of 11, he gets nominated for a Tony Award. Yeah. He was nominated for his portrayal of Ali in the Broadway musical Golden Rainbow, which starred Steve Lawrence and Edie Gourmet. Oh, my God.

Which is like something similar to what you're working on for your Carnegie Hall show, right? Yes. The Carnegie Hall show we're doing is to celebrate the 25th anniversary of a musical called Pete and Keely. Yeah. And it's loosely based on the kind of show or TV special that Steve Lawrence and Edie Gourmet might have done. And they famously performed at Carnegie Hall. So this is going to be a fun night. And you and Christine were doing it at Carnegie Hall. We are.

Cheesecakes can get tickets, right? They can. I mean, we're selling out fast. But yes, Monday, February 17th. I don't know if this will have aired. Yeah, I think it will. Hashtag not an ad, but get your tickets. I'll be there. By the age of 15, Scott Jacoby broke into film. He was hailed as this amazing, fresh face and was said to be poised to have a career rivaling a young Mickey Rooney. Oh. This did not happen. I don't see it.

don't see the Mickey Rooney correlation. No, me either. And that career did not materialize, but he worked consistently until 1991 when he seems to have just decided to walk away. And he appeared in three episodes of The Golden Girls. It's his second to last IMDb credit. Okay. Before he sort of just wandered off into the sunset. As I mentioned, he's the older half-brother of Billie Jane who played Blanche's dirtbag grandson, David. Is that how I have it here? Yeah.

In 2001, he did direct a documentary about punk rock called Rage, 20 Years of Punk Rock West Coast Style. Listen, I always love the people and respect the people who walk away. Totally. Like, this sucks. I'm doing something else. Totally. Whatever the reason. You know what I mean? Yeah. And as far as we know, he's still with us. He's been married to his wife, Lynn, since 1985. And they have two children. And he's a Tony nominee. Thank you very much. And I love him. Forever and ever. And you love him. And I love him. And now I find him attractive. Good. I'm so glad to hear it.

Where'd you get those shoes? Easy. They're from DSW because DSW has the exact right shoes for whatever you're into right now. You know, like the sneakers that make office hours feel like happy hour, the boots that turn grocery aisles into runways and all the styles that show off the many sides of you from daydreamer to multitasker and everything in between because you do it all in really great shoes.

Find a shoe for every you at your DSW store or DSW.com. So we're in the kitchen the next morning and Michael is wearing one of Dorothy's sweaters. Oh, that's what I made a big note about this because I think it looks so good on him. It's mustard gold and blousey. But that's what I love that look on him. You would hate it on her. You listen, he could wear it.

He could wear a rubber band. He'd be into it. I just, I was like, he's got some, it's a little feminine. He's got some style. It looked really cute on him. The last denim shirt he wears is feminine. Anyway. They're just toying with me over there. So it's probably not her clothes after all. Yeah, maybe it is. There's nothing feminine about hers clothes.

I know. You're absolutely. Sorry. Her outfit in this scene is unacceptable. Yeah. She is wearing a white blouse. That's fine. But she's wearing a pink V-neck sweater. That's fine. Yeah. What's not fine is the loosened gray tie. This is like the second episode in a row. We learned that Dorothy has a collection of men's ties. Yeah. And she wears them. And

no one gives her any shit about it. But to be fair, that was very fashionable in the day. That was the whole Madonna, uh, Cindy Lauper thing. Like, you know, there's the loosened, uh, what's her name? Molly Ringwald. Yeah. You know, my, my whole thing is that Dorothy doesn't strike me as somebody who cares about fashion. Well, she's around the

on the high school kids all the time, though. That's true. She's got to look hip. Once again, when she sits down, we see the shoulder pads. This is the worst offender of the shoulder pads we've seen so far. Linebacker for Jesus. I mean, the shoulders are absolutely enormous. Yeah.

Well, they've had breakfast and Dorothy just loves mothering her son, cooking for him, cleaning for him, for which Sophia takes full advantage. Mom, this is the best breakfast I've had in ages. Me too, Dorothy. When we're alone, she feeds me lumpy oatmeal and black bananas. Mom, I'll do that. No, you will not. You don't have to clean up after me. I enjoy doing it. Here, why not double your fun?

Blanche enters, says good morning to everybody. She hobbles in. She's wearing a gray sweater with black horsies on it. Yes, yes. I have a question for you, Patrick. Sure. How does this work? Her getting back into her room to shower and change? Good question. I mean, we know there's that enormous bathroom down the hall. Maybe she's showering in there. Keeping her clothes in there, too? Michael, Michael. Michael, it's Blanche. Are you up here?

What would she say to him if he was in the bathroom and she wanted him to get out of the bathroom? Michael, honey, this is Blanche. I need to hurry up into those raindrops, do Lily. I have to get my beauty rinse. Thank you. That's terrible. I was thinking she was going to say, get out of here. Yours is better. She'd be like, Michael, it's Blanche. Get out of here. Get out of here.

Blanche is just saying that the doctor told her, the doctor, after, of course, telling her how beautiful she is. Yes. Then has to break the bad news to her that she has a back problem. Good morning, everybody. Hi, Blanche. Honey, how's your back? Terrible. What'd the doctor say? Well, after commenting that I am the most spectacular specimen of the female anatomy he has seen since Miss Julie Newmar, he said I have a back problem. Thank God you went to a specialist. He said no physical activity for a week. I have to wear a corset.

And stay on my back with my legs elevated. That's the same thing you did last Saturday. She has to stay on her back with her legs elevated, to which I say, so how is that going to happen in the living room? I'm really, it's all about where she's staying for me.

It really did go right over my head how willingly and how quickly she gave up her bed for somebody else would never happen. Never happen. No. That's right. She's lamenting how she cannot go without physical activity for a week because she has, quote, serious needs because she's at her sexual peak. That's right. And Dorothy is horrified that she's talking like this in front of Michael, who, if you ask me, is more than mildly turned on. Dorothy, I cannot possibly go without physical activity for an entire week.

I have serious needs. After all, I'm at my sexual peak. Blanche. Well, I am Dorothy. When a woman's at her sexual peak... Blanche, boy, this is my child. Mom, I'm not a child anymore. I wish you wouldn't treat me like one. Oh, don't be ridiculous. I don't treat you like one. Ooh, here's $10. Go take your grandmother to see The Journey of Natty Gang. Shut up and take the money.

The Journey of Natty Gann. Yeah, I have a very brief history of that. Oh, you have a ditty? Oh, tell me. I was obsessed with this movie. Oh, I didn't know what it was. Oh, my God. If people are like me, I'll just tell you. This is a film that made a whole generation of young girls want to be hobos. I'm going to say the word hobo later in a whole separate ditty. All right. Well, it's not my word. That was the research I found. But Natty Gann is essentially the triumphant story of a girl and her wolf riding the rails of Depression-era America.

A girl and her what? Wolf. Come here, you're gonna... Come on, we're gonna ride these rails. We're gonna ride them.

A girl and her wolf. A girl and her wolf. Well, it's Meredith Salinger and her dad is John Cusack and he gets sent away somewhere and she's like 13 or whatever. She's going to ride the rails with her wolf to go find her dad. And I was obsessed with this movie and I loved it because Meredith Salinger was like a big deal to me. She would go on to be in a movie called Dream a Little Dream with the Corys that I was like totally obsessed with. But she was also in a movie called A Night in the Life of Jimmy Reardon in which she played River Phoenix's girlfriend then became River Phoenix's girlfriend anyway.

in real life. Oh. So I was like massively obsessed with her. And now, get this. River Phoenix's lifelong like love in his young years with Martha Plimpton. Yeah. They were together for a decade. They were the couple of my youth. They were my Brangelina. I was totally obsessed. They break up. River dies tragically at 23. But Meredith had been with him at 1.2. Meredith and Martha become really good friends. Aw.

Then Patton Oswalt, right? The comedian. Also friends with Martha. Marries Michelle McNamara, who goes on to write the book, I'll Be Gone in the Dark. She dies before the book comes out. It's about the catching of the Golden State Killer. Patton Oswalt is like devastated. They've got a young daughter. He's devastated. It's a nightmare. He meets Meredith Salinger online. They go on one date, fall madly in love. Guess who performs the wedding? Martha Plimpton. Like, what a story, right? That's amazing.

I know. They both dated River and they became friends after he died. It's a whole thing. Oh my gosh. Well, like you said earlier, thanks for listening, Cheesecakes. I mean, how does it get better than that? I know. I know. Well, this movie, I didn't even know the name of it. I've never heard of it. The Journes of the Gams. It's so good. I'm a little shaken up right now. I am too. Let's take a breath. Let's talk through our teeth. Take a drink of water, Patrick.

Cheesecakes. I did that. No, no. It's all off the cuff. I just, that's, it's my base level of knowledge about Meredith Salinger. I'm obsessed. So Sophia and Michael, he takes the 10 bucks. They go, she promises him a day at the racetrack. Like just take the money kid. Let's go. Right. So they exit. This is like one of my favorite moments ever. Blanche and Dorothy are sitting alone at the table. Blanche, once again, this right here, like shoulder pads for days. It's like the only thing you can see in the frame. Yeah. I said, Dot is ready for takeoff. Yes.

Great joke from Blanche incoming when she says, Michael seems like such a nice young man. Oh, he really is. But I'm worried about him. He's always been a little flighty. Oh, I wouldn't worry about that. Grandma Hollingsworth always said I was a little flighty. Or was it a little floozy?

Was a little floozy. I know. I should have entitled this episode Winnie because with all these great jokes, I have to say about the episode overall. Yeah. When I first saw this episode come up, I had categorized it as not one of my favorites. Yeah. Just because of guest stars. You know, I just love the girls. Yeah. But in viewing it,

with such a fine-tooth comb like we do. Yeah. I have to say, I'm much more impressed with it than my memory served me. Yeah. And in large part because of Winifred Hervey's writing. A hundred percent. So good. You know what? Nothing will ever beat that joke that Stan wrote in season one. The whole, the Tina Sinatra. Remember that moment where it was like a joke inside a joke inside a joke? Yeah. Tina Sinatra! Like at the end. It was so...

Good. But all of the writing is like that. Yeah. It's great. Yeah. So Rose enters wearing a lovely periwinkle pantsuit. And I love the word periwinkle. Oh, yeah? So much. I love it so much.

Get over here, Perry Winkle. I texted you the other day when I was listening to one of our other episodes. Yeah. And you said that for your, when you got confirmed to the Catholic Church, you had to pick a saint name. Yeah. And you went as Saint Bernadette for Bernadette Peters. Yes. Which I just texted you like, sometimes you out gay, even me. Like, sometimes you're gayer than I am. Yeah. And for you to just be like, I love Perry Winkle. I love Perry Winkle. That is so gay. It's not that I love the color Perry Winkle, but I love the name Perry Winkle. Wow.

What's better? Blue. Right. No, I agree. Periwinkle. It sounds like fairy dust or something. It sounds magical. Can we say that when you were younger and you had that vanity play that said X, it wasn't blue. It was periwinkle. It was periwinkle.

So we learn about Rose's morning and this actually sounds delightful. Morning, everyone. Hi, Rose. You want some breakfast? Oh, no, thanks. Bridget packed a delicious meal and drove me to the country for breakfast. Oh, we took a walk and we picked wildflowers and we rolled up our pant legs and waded in the creek. And then guess what? Julie Andrews showed up. You all fed deer from your hand and sang If I Had a Hammer.

No, listen, good joke, Dot. But that sounds like a great morning. It does. Like your daughter drives you out to the country. You get to walk in a stream with your kid. Yeah, lovely. And Blanche agrees. And it sounds like a lovely morning. And Rose says, yes, it was. Now they're like sitting down because Bridget's there and Michael's there like visiting. They're sort of describing their relationships with their kids.

You know, and Rose and Bridget are very close. And Dorothy's saying that she and Michael used to be like that. And they're like, what do you mean? It seems like you are very close. And she's like, no, we like, we love each other. But he's kind of grown into this young man that she doesn't really recognize. And she, in some ways, she's like, I didn't raise this child.

young man, you know? So what follows here, basically, Dot is worried that Michael is not driven enough. And we are setting up that Michael and Bridget are polar opposites. And Blanche has the idea that Michael may be more driven if he spends some time with Bridget, who is more so. But Dorothy and Rose disagree. I'm of two minds about this. My big note here, first of all, is that it seems like Bridget and Michael came to visit and neither of their parents want to spend any time with them.

You know what I mean? Like, Bridget and Michael are left to their own devices so often on this trip that, like, of course they're going to start hanging out. Well, Michael, Dorothy substitute teaching. He didn't tell her he was coming. It's true, but, like, at one point, Rose has, like, been grocery shopping and has no idea where Bridget is. I'm like, if I see Daisy twice a year and she goes to the...

with her every minute. Like, I'm not going to not know where she is. But that's kind of the point is that like Rose and Dorothy are like, Blanche, stay out of it. Don't try to put them together. Just because you can't have sex this week doesn't mean that everybody else should be. So you said you have two minds. What's your other thought? And my other thought is like, let them hang out. Like they're both young. They're both cute. They're both single. Right. I was really spending a lot of time trying to remember and I was obviously very young, but like were the 80s a much more of a prudish time? Because I'm like, if there's two

hot young people in a house today that are single, they're definitely having sex. Oh, okay. Sorry, I didn't mean to take a left turn there. But like everyone is saying like basically keep them away from each other. And I'm like, but they're two young, hot, single people that are literally here by happenstance at the same time. They're never going to see each other again. If sex doesn't happen, that would be strange. Well,

Or am I just like a horny midlife gay guy? There you go. But I do think the issue here is not really so much the sex thing as where the sex thing happens. Well, right. Because, yeah, and we're not even there yet. Right now, like Blanche is suggesting, let's set them up on a date kind of. And the parents are like, let's not do that. Right, exactly. And so they said, no, they both realized a long time ago, don't get in our children's social lives anymore.

And Rose says...

And I have here, Patrick, just the image of a herring on a leash. I know. Made me laugh. It's funny because I had the exact thing. You can see it. You can see it. Like it's walking on its tail. You know what I mean? Or its belly just slithering. I don't know. And of course, we have a really great joke. Blanche says, all right, fine. I thought maybe they'd have more fun going out together instead of hanging around with me and three old ladies.

And one reason it's great is not only in and of itself, but because it's one of those pause, you got to think about it for two seconds jokes. We're going to get another one of those in a minute that I actually dissected why it's so funny. Okay. So now Rose is off for an exciting day of fabric shopping with Bridget. She's going to go. They're going fabric shopping and then wool shopping. And Rose just can't get in the car fast enough. Just crazy over felt. I know.

Very funny. And I was thinking, too, that, like, Rose is probably one of those people who's great at crafting, which is one of those things that I wish I could be good at, but I just never would be. I mean, those cheese wooden shoes. I know. Those Triscuit windmills. I think that Steve, like, fears the day that I become a crafter because what I would do is go buy all... Oh, God.

You need another room. You're like, Steve, this is my crafting room. It's my crafting room. I would go buy all the stuff. I would take it all out, work on the crafting project for two minutes and then leave everything everywhere and come out of the room wrapped up in like in scotch tape covered in glitter. With an open container of milk sitting out on the fabric. Yeah. On the felt and the wool. I shouldn't go into crafting is what you're saying. You shouldn't. But Winnie had some good ones here with the jokes, you know, about the felt and the world of wool.

I'm going to get changed too. Bridget's going to take me to the House of Fabrics. They're having a big felt sale. I hope I just don't get too crazy. Yeah, you better take a tranquilizer before you go. Remember last time you hyperventilated and almost passed out. I never passed out at the House of Fabrics. I passed out at the World of Wool. Save on Cox Internet when you add Cox Mobile and get fiber-powered internet at home and unbeatable 5G reliability on the go.

So whether you're playing a game at home. Yes, go. Or attending one live. Go. You can do more without spending more. Learn how to save at Cox.com slash internet. Cox Internet is connected to the premises via coaxial cable. Cox Mobile runs on the network with unbeatable 5G reliability as measured by UCLA LLC in the U.S. to age 2023. Results may vary, not an endorsement of the restrictions apply.

So it's the evening and Dot and Soph are playing cards and not talking to one another, which is weird because I thought that's where they love to talk. Exactly. I was like, they're playing cards because Dorothy never learns. Do you remember that episode where from another room we heard a teacup fly across the kitchen?

Like, Dorothy, just in a fit of rage, threw a teacup across the kitchen, playing Rummy with her mother. The anger issues. The anger. Blanche enters wearing a beautiful nightgown and robe. Hobbling down the hallway. Yes. She's just saying, like, for the first time in her life, she feels old. She can't do the things that she used to do. And this is where, like, this

is kind of interesting. It was kind of like the conversation that they were having about like women getting their period and then stopping it because they're all having a different experience of getting older. Like for Dorothy, it's fine. She notices it. She doesn't really mind. Sophia's like, my body falls apart. Right. You know, and Dorothy just doesn't see it that way. I will say this monologue that Dorothy has, this is a real thing.

I remember the first time I felt I was getting older. I was visiting my daughter in New York. She had one of those walk-up apartments, five flights up. Oh, it got harder and harder each year to climb those stairs. And finally, one year, I couldn't make it without stopping. Oh, it depressed me for weeks.

One thing that I always thought about as a young woman in my 20s when I first moved here was even at that age where I could easily manage that, I didn't know how long I would have the apartment. And no one thinks about aging in place more than Jennifer Smart. I was like, well, that's going to be a problem when I'm 80. I just don't think I should do it. Yeah.

When I tell you the way that you just said, I just don't think I should do it, is the most iconic Jennifer Simard way of saying a line. Okay. Like, it sounded so much like stage Jennifer Simard. It was beautiful to hear in my ears. Thank you. But it's true. You know what, Patrick? Get over here across that table. Get over here.

But she's saying that like her daughter lived in this fifth floor walk up and every year it got harder to do. And then one year she had to take a break. Yeah. And that really like wrecked her soul. Yeah. I lived in a sixth floor walk up for nine years. And it was one of those things I did.

eventually get used to it. But you it's not uncommon in New York. In New York, you don't have to have an elevator in a building unless it goes above six floors. Yeah. And so it was a nice neighborhood. It was a nice apartment. Steve and I lived there for a year. I lived there for eight years before I met him. And you have to arrange your whole day around it. But my mother never saw the inside of that apartment. Grocery shopping is such a thing. It's a real barometer. Also, if you injure yourself, God help you. Oh, my God. If I like broken a leg, I never that would have been

it. Oh, man. Oh, man. Now I'm thinking about aging. Now I'm depressed. This is the joke. We get an iconic joke from Blanche because, you know, Dorothy is talking about not being able to make it up all those stairs anymore. And Blanche goes, oh, my God. Is that what I have to look forward to 15 years from now?

I wrote down the science of why this is so funny. I scream laughing. And I'm like, first of all, there's just no reason to put a number there. You know what I mean? She's clearly a little bit younger than maybe five years younger than Dorothy or whatever. But to put the number 15 on it is so savage. It's so funny. And then the way that she looks away and plays with her hair. And her clothes. Yes. It's amazing.

absolutely genius. I have Winnie. I know. It's so good. All right. Sophia wants to play another round before bed. Dorothy doesn't want to suggest that she plays with Michael. And this is when we learned that Bridget and Michael are not home. Oh, he's not here. Where is he? While you and Sophia were at the market, the kids decided to go out. But Michael asked Bridget out? Well, not exactly. No, I just happen to have some free tickets to the symphony and they were sitting around here bored. So I suggested they take him.

Blanche, both Rose and I told you not to interfere with their social lives. I know it. I just thought it might be fun for them. Oh, being set up on a date is never fun. In Sicily, everything is set up. Dates, marriage, death...

Especially death. And they were sitting around bored because, again, their parents don't want to hang out with them. No, this is a plot point that is so crazy. They're like, where's Dot? Where's Rose? That, like, Michael and Bridget are just sitting around the living room hating each other until they decide to go to the symphony together. I also love that Blanche is a subscriber to the symphony. I love that. Right? For, you know, a way it kind of works. Yeah. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, she loves love art. It's true. But anyway, she suggested this, and I have in parentheses boundary crossing. Yeah. Well, no. But this is my thing. Like, I don't know. These two young, cute kids are... Maybe it's a way of keeping them from having sex. Take my tickets and go to the symphony. Here's the thing. I'm...

with you to a point, and I think you'll see my point as well. I agree with Blanche that, you know, having them hang out isn't necessarily a date. That doesn't mean dating. And certainly, you know, she had these tickets with her back being the way, you know. I understand that. The issue is not that it's not a good idea. I think it is a good idea. No one could foresee they were going to have sex. But the issue is when your friend's

set a boundary and ask you not to do something, you should honor that. Yeah, I guess that's true. Oh, I hate that though. Well, let me ask you this. I mean, how would you feel? I know she's a child. These are adults. But still, how would you feel if you set a very clear boundary about your daughter? Yes. And I just got in my truck and drove right through it. I guess I would be annoyed. But at the same time, if my kid was visiting, I'd be spending time with her. That's all I'm saying. You know what I mean? So it's their fault. It's their fault.

Now, interestingly, Rose isn't here for this. Now, Dorothy knows that they're out, not on a date, but they're out hanging out together. We go to the next scene. Yeah. We're in the kitchen. Rose walks in after an evening of doing who knows what, an evening of avoiding spending time with her daughter. I said she enters from grocery shopping, I guess, for the minks in addition to her daughter. And she says, hi, Blanche, shouldn't you be laying down? And Blanche says, yes, but I'm tired of being on my back. Did I just say that? Yeah.

Dot enters in her Betsy Ross nightgown, the white and light blue one. I mean, it's from the Civil War collection. Yeah. And this is where Rose finds out that the kids are, quote, on a date. Right. I will say this, though. Yeah. She says, are the kids back from their date? Our kids know, Rose, the Katzenjammer kids. And I didn't know what that was. Me either. So I looked it up. So Rudolph Dirks created the comic strip...

The Katzenjammer Kids in 1897 for the American Humorist, which was a famed Sunday supplement of the New York Journal. Inspired in part by Max und Moritz, the famous German children's stories of the 1860s, the Katzenjammer Kids featured the adventures of Hans and Fritz, toy

twins, and fellow warriors in the battle against any form of authority. The Katsies, as they were known, as they were known, like the Cheesies, rebelled against Mama. Hey, wait a minute. Hey, against Mama, their own mother, of course. Dare Captain, the shipwrecked sailor who acted as their surrogate father, and Darren Spector, dreaded representative of the school authorities.

The oldest comic strip still in syndication, the Katz and Gemmer Kids was adapted to the stage in 1903 and inspired countless animated cartoons. The U.S. Postal Service also saluted the Katzies with a commemorative stamp. Okay, then. I mean, pretty famous. Very good. And it also shows Dorothy's weird set of knowledge. You know what I mean? So funny. Only the tall girls who couldn't get a date write poetry. Yeah.

and had stamp collections. So Rose is saying, well, hang on a second. I thought we decided not to interfere, right? Right. And then just kind of like, how could you? But Blanche is just saying she doesn't know. Like, she doesn't, what's all the fuss about? Like, and besides, I heard them come in hours ago. Nothing happened. They went to the symphony. They came home. And this is,

my issue that I mentioned earlier. Rose says, I think I'll go say goodnight to Bridget. And Blanche says, oh, honey, would you bring me back my heating pad? It's on my dresser. Huh. And we don't know that they're sleeping together yet. No. So she's either saying, like, can you knock on the room and see if Michael's decent and get the heating pad? Right. Exactly. It's just giving her a reason to go to Blanche's room. I know. I know. Yeah. So the show can happen. But I didn't like it.

Now, Rose leaves, but before it goes great, we get this great moment between Blanche and Dorothy. All I have in big caps is this. Do you realize it has been four days since I have enjoyed the company of a man? I know, Blanche. I've been marking the days off on my big ships of the Navy calendar.

I don't think I can stand it much longer. My body feels like a corvette up on blocks with its engine racing and wheels just spinning and spinning with nowhere to go. I feel like I'm going to explode. Dutty, you have to help me. You have to do something. Honey, there's nothing I can do, so get that look out of your eye and let go of my hand.

Blanche hasn't had a man inside her for four days. So she is so horny and she thinks she might actually die. She hasn't grit talked through her teeth in four days. She's so, so funny. She's just like, I don't think I can stand it much longer. My body feels like a Corvette upon blocks with its engine racing and the wheels just spinning and spinning with nowhere to go. I feel like I'm going to explode. Dorothy, you must help me. You have to do something.

She can't get halfway through the line before the audience is screaming and you almost can't hear the rest of the line. Oh, God, it's funny. It's so good because my note here is like, what if this was the moment that Blanche and Dorothy realized that in a pinch they could be there for each other sexually? In a pinch? You know what I mean? How dare you? Oh, my God. I know. What if she did like Blanche has grabbed Dorothy's hand and Dorothy's like, does this Civil War night gone do it for you? Yeah.

Take me by the mix. Exactly. I don't think that Blanche wasn't asking for a little something, something. You know what I mean? I don't think that, like, I think Blanche kind of knew what she was asking for. Oh, no.

Oh, God. We hear Rose shriek from down the hall. And so, yes. Oh, my God. And Dorothy and Blanche run to Blanche's bedroom. Yes. Bridget says hi there. And basically, we see Bridget and Michael. They're in Blanche's bed together with the palm leaf background. Yes. Clearly naked. Clearly poised quotas. And Rose and Dot are shocked. Hands to face. Hands to chest. Blanche, I really wanted to see her reaction. I know. I know. Now, she's just sort of slightly indignant. Yeah.

You know, I just got to say, and I'm not going to objectify him too much, but the actor playing Michael with his shirt off is really, really doing it for me. That's all. I can't say the same. I can respect his physique and I do, but not for me. What's your preferred physique? If you don't mind me asking. I mind you asking. So Rose looks especially panicked. The girls don't look.

Michael Zbornak, you get out of that bed right now. Believe me, Mom, I'd like to, but in light of the fact that my clothes are hanging on the doorknob, I don't think it's such a good idea. Oh, my God, they're naked! People usually are in this situation, Rose. Unless they're all dressed up in costumes.

That is so funny. It's so funny. Because you think the scene is just going to be about the catastrophe of them having had sex. Right. Rose just realizing that she, like, I feel like, I know nothing, but I feel like that was a 2 a.m., the night before the script was due, edition, that somebody just came up in the moment and, like, everyone is scream laughing. It's so funny. Winnie. I love Winifred Hervey. I want her to write for me. I love her so much. Oh, this.

is the moment. I don't know if you caught this, but this is the moment that we see Michael's saxophone in the chair covered by the clothes. Oh, yeah. So what has happened? If everybody isn't following, they went to the symphony. They got the music got them so hot that they got back to the house, went to Blanche's room where Michael pulled out his

saxophone played more for Bridget just to really get her in the mood. They are so turned on by his saxophone playing. He throws the saxophone in a chair. They rip their clothes off and jump into Blanche's bed.

The placement of the saxophone as though he played for her before they had sex is so brilliant. I love your attention to detail. It is so funny. When I was pre-watching this to figure out what I wanted to do my mini deep dive on, I clocked it. And I was like, they did not. Who did that? That is so funny. That is my favorite part of this episode so far. The saxophone, the pre-sex saxophone in the chair. I cannot.

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I can say to my new Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra, hey, find a keto-friendly restaurant nearby and text it to Beth and Steve. And it does without me lifting a finger. So I can get in more squats anywhere I can. One, two, three. Will that be cash or credit? Credit.

Galaxy S25 Ultra, the AI companion that does the heavy lifting so you can do you. Get yours at Samsung.com. Compatible with select apps requires Google Gemini account results may vary based on input check responses for accuracy. Well, Sophia enters and she's, you know, wondering what all the commotion is. She sees them and says, oh boy. Oh boy. Grandma, this isn't what it looks like. Please, I'm 80 years old. I may not remember what it feels like, but I sure as hell remember what it looks like.

Grandma, listen. You listen. How dare you come into our home and act like a common gigolo? You've embarrassed me, your mother, our friends. Not to mention that poor, stupid, flat-chested girl. Poor, stupid, flat-chested girl. Patrick. Patrick texted me that. He's bouncing up and down the chair. That noise you just heard was Patrick. Go ahead. Do it again for them.

That poor, stupid, flat-chested girl. He texted me that this morning. My note here is, I wonder if Bea Arthur finally felt like she had a comrade at the table read that week. Right. They had to say that in front of her. It's the one guest star Bea Arthur liked. I know. The actress who played Bridget. That stupid flat-chested girl. God damn it. It's this...

Oh, God. Give him a minute, everyone. Give him a minute. It is so funny. Could you be more specific, Big Daddy? Oh, my God. Like, that writing is so funny. And, like, you look at the actress in the moment, she just takes it. Oh, yeah. What else can she do? What else can she do? But Sophia says, you've broken my heart. I'm ashamed to call you my grandson. Oh, man. And Dorothy, now look what you've done. I hope you're proud of yourself.

And that to me, now look what you've done. It's so like old world Sicilian New York tenement housing. Like, you know, the Italian grandmother. Totally. She goes and gets the wooden spoon. Oh, yeah. Look what you've done. But it's also like finally Blanche is like the voice of reason. She's like, can everybody just calm down? They're adults. They went out. They had a great time. They came home. He played some saxophone for her. They hopped into bed.

That poor, stupid, flat-chested girl. And then I wrote, because Blanche says they had a great time. And then Bridget goes, It was nice. I wouldn't call it great. Sorry. Too much wine. Would you like us to leave so you can try it again? That poor, stupid, flat-chested girl has the audacity to critique my Michael's lovemaking.

They decide to leave and go to the living room and let the kids get dressed. Now, get ready for a showdown for the ages, Cheesecakes. That being said, I have to out myself. I had plenty of sex in my house growing up with the family members all present. Yeah. You know, I mean, this one boyfriend in high school that like we did the sex in the bedroom. And it was like I lived in a very, very small house with like three siblings and my mom. Yeah. And like I had my own room. But like my mom would just walk in with wild abandon. Yeah. She once walked in on me and him.

asleep in bed together, but not during the sex thing. One of my brothers walked in on me and a fella sleeping, but many times it was sort of in the rec room basement, you know, with various, not various, maybe just a couple of guys, but you know. You would go to the refrigerator, get the chocolate sauce, get the wax candle, get the ice cube, and come back downstairs for your nine and a half week style lovemaking sessions that would go on for three hours.

Jen, we just want to use the foosball table. Hurry up. Okay. So the women are all in the living room. Rose is in disbelief. Rose blames Blanche for this. You know, and my note here is like just the idea that someone is to blame is so dumb. It's like they're adults. They had sex. Oh, my God. This is what happens, though, when people get upset. And here's where the fight begins.

Rose is the first one to draw blood. She says to Blanche, she says, if you hadn't sent them out on that date, Michael never would have seduced my daughter. And it cuts to Dorothy. She makes the face before she speaks. And I always love when she does that. And she's like, what are you talking about? Seduced her. Oh, you were there? Oh, I happen to know he didn't. How? Bridget isn't his type. Of course she isn't. She's too good for him. How?

a nice glass of lemonade. Now, what do you mean she is too good for him? Well, he doesn't even have a job. Well, neither does Henry Kissinger, really, but he's still very highly regarded.

My son is an artist. That's a nice way of saying he's a loser. I said, and locked and loaded Rose fires back with. Locked and loaded. Rose is really ready for the fight. Oh, yeah. I said shots fired Rose. Rose started it. Since the minute she laid eyes on that dirt bag, she had that in the chamber. And so Dorothy says, my son is not a loser. He happens to be very talented. Yes, and taking advantage of poor young girls. You see, you both agree he does have talent.

Rose, face it. Your daughter moves faster than Marcus Allen. I can't face it.

I don't even know who Marcus Allen is. And Dorothy says, face it, your daughter moves faster than Marcus Allen. And Rose and I both don't know who that is. Well, I'll handle it, Patrick, because sports. Briefly, Marcus Allen is an American football legend, and he's the only player in the history of football to have won a Heisman Trophy, an NCAA National Championship, a Super Bowl, and be named National Football League MVP. Good.

For you, Marcus Allen. Most people might know him from this. He was also very close friends with OJ Simpson, and he was alleged to have had an affair with Nicole Brown Simpson. Oh, right. So in May 1996...

Allen testified during the wrongful death suit filed against Simpson by the families of Brown and Goldman. During his deposition, Allen denied Simpson's previous claims that he'd had a sexual relationship with Brown when she was still married to Simpson, CNN reported at the time. He also alleged that Simpson had called him from jail and asked him to lie about his relationship with Brown.

Alan said that he ended his longtime friendship with Simpson after that phone call. Why would he want him to lie about it? I don't know. And I don't know which direction say that you did have an affair with her or say that you didn't. Yeah. So did he lie or was the lie that he had the affair?

And to what end would that help OJ? Because I do remember now that I think of it, there was like the idea that OJ went as crazy as he did and did what we all know what he did because she was having an affair. And maybe because she was having an affair with him. I do remember that. Yeah. So anyway, back to the episode. We now think for maybe for just a second that Dorothy has calmed down and is trying to reason with Rose because she says, let me put it another way. And like you said, her tone is very calm.

Let me put it to you another way. Rose, when are you going to face up to the fact that your daughter is not the goody two shoes you think she is? What do you mean by that? Rose, what would you call a girl who sleeps with a man she has known for one day? A damn good spoilt?

I call her a tramp. What? You heard me, tramp. Tramp, tramp, tramp. Dorothy, we have always had our differences, but I don't think you've ever said anything so vicious or so cruel. I don't believe I'll ever be able to speak to you again. But calling Bridget a tramp, like, is the big friendship ender, as far as Rose is concerned. Yeah, and I had, you had it coming, Nyland. Right, Dorothy.

Because I certainly don't think Dorothy thinks she's actually a tramp, but she's looking to wound Rose. Exactly. I've got a mini-ditty on the word tramp because I was curious where it came from. So the earliest definition of the word means persons who wander about, also idle, vagrant, or vagabond. There were female tramps, but it mostly referred to male unhoused people. Word historians would like us, they were very clear on this, would like us not to confuse the word tramp with unhoused.

quote, hobos, as we mentioned earlier. One 18th century scholar said the difference between a tramp and a, quote, hobo. A hobo, or a beau, is simply a migratory laborer. He may take some longish holidays, but sooner or later, he returns to work. A tramp never works if it can be avoided. He simply travels. Don't confuse tramp and...

No, the journey of Natty Gant. Exactly. The word tramp did not come to mean a, quote, promiscuous woman until the 1920s and only in the U.S. Linguists say that this is perhaps because female tramps were often regarded as sex workers. In the United States, the term tramp also came to refer to a promiscuous woman. However, this is not global usage. Interesting.

Interesting, right? Because you think about the lady in the tramp, right? The tramp being like the wandering male dog. Yeah. That always confused me. I want spaghetti so badly right now. Should we sit at that table and do the spaghetti thing where we meet in the middle? Should we? Next photo shoot. That's not a bad idea.

Oh, my goodness. So next scene, it's the morning. We're in the kitchen. Dorothy enters. She is not speaking to Blanche. She's not speaking wearing a royal blue tunic top. Yes. Blanche in her signature bright floral bathrobe. You know, Blanche is like, I guess you're still upset with me about last night, aren't you? And Dorothy says, no, I'm upset because Crockett and Tubbs are wearing darker colors. And as a fan at the time, I have to say we were all upset about that. Well, who are they? Oh, my Lord, we've been over this. Miami Vice?

Oh, oh, oh, oh, right. Yeah, they went from their bright pastels to moodier tones, and everyone was in an uproar. Oh, I can't imagine. I mean, come on. So Sophia enters. She's wearing a full funeral veil because Michael is dead to her. So funny. And even before she starts making jokes, you can tell she can't see through that veil.

It's so thick, but she's still carrying her signature wicker purse. I just think it's so funny that like the sex was so egregious that he is dead to Sophia. Out of the will, dead to her. That's right. Rose enters the kitchen and she and Dot nearly bump. She's wearing a lavender shirt covered by a pink cardigan. Yes. And Blanche is really in the doghouse with both of them. Right. Though it should definitely be Rose and Dorothy who are mad at each other. You know what I mean? Of course. You know, Blanche is just

saying she had no intention of the kids coming home and jumping in bed together but things happen it's not the end of the world right and she goes on to tell this hilarious story i mean this is so good about miss macgyver's finishing school which we've heard her talk about before that's right

I was taking some classes at Miss MacGyver's finishing school, and one night, Bobby Joe Springer had escorted me back to my dormitory after the annual fine manners ball, when an innocent goodnight kiss developed into an evening of passion. But at 3 a.m., the door flung open, and there stood Miss MacGyver, making one of those bed checks she was famous for.

Well, I tried to handle the whole thing like a lady. I waved politely over Bobby Joe's shoulder with my foot. Now, hang on a second. I have Winnie. Winnie. Like, can't you see it? I can just see it. And it's so... Like, she's not going to, like, disentangle herself from his embrace. But she will politely wave with her foot. If I haven't said this before, this might be a twofer. Okay. When I...

I saw Flashdance. The movie. The movie. I was 12 years old. And my best friend, Kirsten, wanted to see the movie. And her mother was skeptical because she had heard something about it. So she called my mother, Yvette. You have this amazing analytical way of telling stories sometimes. Oh, okay. And it's so delicious. Oh, good. Well, Yvette is on the phone. So all of a sudden, my mother puts the phone down and she, you know, for a moment on her shoulder. And she asked me, she says, Jennifer, it's Kirsten's mother, Mrs. Jersey. So...

She wants to know, is there a scene in Flashdance where a woman is at a bar and puts her hand on the man's penis? And I went really exasperated and impatient. I went...

Rolled my eyes. I said, Mom, first of all, it wasn't a bar. It was a restaurant. And second of all, it wasn't her hand. It was her foot. And my mother closed her eyes gently, put her hand over her mouth, picked up the phone, and started to cry, laugh through the phone. She went, Vicki, no problem. It wasn't a bar. It was a restaurant. And it wasn't her hand. No.

Oh, my God. And that's when my mother just realized, too, for the first time that I had seen it. Yes. And that I was completely like, Mom, that's the big deal. Oh, God. When the penis becomes engorged with blood. Shouldn't they have known then that I was going to have the honey and the wax and the chocolate syrup down on the foosball table? That should have been the first clue. A hundred percent. Anyway, the next morning, Blanche gets a talking to from the headmistress and gets thrown out of school, but she doesn't care because she knows what ecstasy was. Yeah.

But she gets serious and she's saying like: "Alright, look, maybe you don't feel like talking to me or to each other, but at least talk to your children. Tell them how you feel. Only just make sure after it's all over that it's brought you closer together, not further apart." "Who are you, Mr. Spock?" "I think you mean Dr. Spock, Sophia." "They're both real smart and they've got big ears, so don't get technical, okay?" "I am speaking from experience, Sophia.

I fail to listen to my children. And you don't see any of them visiting here now, do you? Ouch. Ouch. And we will see Rebecca the model eventually. We're going to get two different versions of Rebecca. But, like, that is serious. Yeah, it is. You know? And it cuts through because Dorothy says, Blanche, you're making a lot of sense. And Rose says, I guess we were so busy protecting our kids, we took it out on each other. And rightly so. She says this first. Dorothy, I think I owe you an apology. Yeah. And Dorothy says...

I owe you one. And Rose says, no, no, no. And I'm like, yes, yes, yes. You know, like, you know. You still did call her son a loser and her daughter a tramp. Yeah. So go ahead. Apologize. But I still think Rose drew first blood. Sorry. Totally agree. And I love this, too. She says, girls, what's the difference? The important thing is we're all friends again. And I'm like, also, I'm sorry for crossing your boundaries. No apology. No.

No apology from Blanche. Also, don't forget to include that extra $200 this month for the maintenance fee. For them staying at my house. And somebody go feed the minks. Thank you so much. You know, the $200, I had to sleep on the couch after all. I know.

So the next scene, Dorothy goes out to the lanai where Michael has been practicing the saxophone. And he's in light colored denim with puffy shoulders. He's so cute. I just can't get over it. But like, she wants to talk to him. And I said, Michael, be careful because this is where Dorothy gave your dad the speech from the pilot episode that ended with, I said goodbye, Stanley. Right. And I have here-

have here later fuck around on the one eye no and since you brought up stan i'm guessing he does take after stan a bit i would imagine with this irresponsibility his dad on this trip i guess because we're not quite sure where stan lives who knows is he in hawaii who the fuck i don't know where we are in the timeline who knows where's the show bible oh right we don't have one okay do not have one and first you know dorothy like she's trying to stay calm and at first she's just you know she says you ungrateful brat how could you do this to me

I'm sorry, I'm sorry. That's not what I planned on saying. It's okay. You have every right to be angry. I just don't understand how you could do such a thing. It wasn't anything planned. The whole thing just kind of happened. Just kind of happened? Michael, dandruff just kind of happens.

Not a thing like this. And if you don't know the difference, then I must have failed somewhere along the line. Will you stop torturing yourself? None of this is your fault. Yes, it is. Where did I go wrong with you? You didn't. He says to her, like, you were a great mom. And she's like, no, if I was a great mom, you'd be graduating from medical school.

And this is where we see the crux of the issue. And this kind of harkens back to the beginning where she was saying that like, he's an artist and he goes from job to job and relationship to relationship. And he's not taking life seriously and he's not settling down. And Michael finally just kind of says to her, like, look, I'm sorry about what happened. And I'm sorry. I'm never going to be all the things you hoped I would be. The only thing I want you to be, Michael, is happy.

I just don't want you waking up one morning sorry for choices you made. I appreciate that. But, Ma, I have to live my own life. And despite my flaws, I am basically a decent, honest person. You think maybe you could just love me for that? I already do. Then you forgive me? Of course I forgive you.

A couple things. It's interesting that she does take it on and make it about her, the fact that he did that. Secondly, when she says, I already do, I will say, yeah, but she also just told him that she would rather he have become a doctor. She says, where did I go wrong with you? We save things like that for the gays that come out in the 80s. I mean, you can be a musician and be responsible. Totally. There is a happy medium, right? Yeah, we talked about Bon Jovi in this episode. That's right. He did quite well for himself. He did just fine, thank you. Exactly.

But yeah, so they hug. All is forgiven. Sophia comes out. And she's like, did you guys make up? I'm like, so I guess he's not dead to you anymore. He was dead to you 10 minutes ago. Dead to you. And she's hilarious. So she's like, did you apologize to your mother and beg for her forgiveness? Yes, grandma. Okay, now do it to me. She points to the ground as if she wants him to...

lie on the ground. Get on his knees. And he probably would. He's easygoing. Yeah, exactly. But she goes for broke. She doesn't just accept the apology. She's like, I'm sorry, Grandma. I wouldn't hurt you for the world. I hope you can forgive me. That's it? And I promise to write you more often. And? And call you every week. Every week? What, you think I don't have a social life? You can call me every other week. Okay, every other week. Good, you're forgiven.

Oh, thank God this mess is over. I couldn't see a thing through this crap. I love that she's got a life and does not want to be bothered every week by her dirtbag grandson. So we're in the kitchen. Bridget enters.

Now, everything is very farm-like and soft. Yeah. From their clothes to the lunch basket to the freshly baked cookies. Yeah. And I think here they're juxtaposing the wholesomeness with which Rose grew up and raised her children with this very adult topic that Rose would prefer to sweep under the rug. Because truly, Rose is making a picnic basket for her daughter to take to the airport. Her adult daughter. Oh, my God. Yeah.

And so Bridget comes in and, you know, ready to go. And she's saying, Mom, I think we should talk. And Rose does not want to talk. Like, this strikes me as like Rose never had like the birds and the bees talk with her daughter either. It doesn't sound like it. Which is weird. Yeah. And, you know, and Bridget's saying, you know, I'm not some kind of perfect angel. To Dorothy's point. Yeah. She isn't some just a goody two shoes. Right. And that's, you know, that's what I mean about this sort of.

bucolic existence like they talked about earlier wading through the stream and so no Rose very much wants to infantilize her daughter and keep her a kid right to the point that she says because Bridget is saying mom you've got to stop pretending I'm some kind of perfect angel I'm not I make mistakes and what I did the other night was one of them and I am sorry about embarrassing you and your friends

But that doesn't change the fact that I slept with Michael. Oh, honey, I so wanted your first time to be special. It was, Mom, four years ago. The way Rose's face falls. Oh, I really don't want to talk about this. And I have to say, after this next sentence...

Spoiler alert. I wrote nope after this. Bridget says, I want us to talk about this. I want us to have an open, honest relationship. I want to be able to share my deepest, darkest secrets with you. That's the sentence I was like, no. No. Boundaries. You know, I mean, maybe that's your relationship with your, but I think that's something your friends are for. Totally. And there's some things. Yeah. I wouldn't mean my parents. Daisy can definitely come to me in her darkest hour. Like, that's fine. But I don't need to know all the details.

of everything. You know what I mean? Right. If my dad doesn't listen to the nine and a half weeks of it all, I'm fine with that. And if he does, sorry, dad. I know. I'm a professional. This is my job. Dad, come on.

But, you know, at the end of the day, you know, Rose is just saying to Bridget, like, it feels like it's all happening to Rose too quickly. Yeah. Like, Bridget, she now is being forced to see Bridget as a woman and she doesn't want to. Like, remember, Rose's mom came and she was infantilizing her mother. Exactly. Rose is a caretaker. She wants to sort of take care of people, but at the same time, see them as like not fully formed humans. Yeah. And she's able to separate here in a wise way, much like she did with Jean. Like, Rose has these lightning fast transitions, but she says, I'm

Sorry, honey, but it's just that suddenly it's like you're a whole new person. Yeah. It's going to take a little getting used to. And Bridget says, I understand. And they hug. So now we're all in the living room. Bridget's going to the airport. Michael pops out. Suddenly Michael's got to go. Dorothy is in 1970s colors again. We love that. Yes. Michael enters wearing a sweatshirt. He's carrying a duffel bag. And, you know, that saxophone that we love so much. That's how he travels. The sex sax. The sex sax.

And Dorothy thought he was staying for the whole week. And he's like, I just got a gig in New Orleans. I got to get going. This is his life. It's the life of a traveling musician. That is right. That is right. He's going to share a taxi to the airport with Bridget. And what service, by the way? The cab driver comes and gets the luggage. Oh, can you imagine? But I'm like, they're sharing a cab. You know she's paying for that taxi. Oh, yeah. And on the way out, he says goodbye to everybody. And Rose is really cold to him. Did you notice? She nods awkwardly.

Everyone's giving him hugs and kisses on the cheek. Rose nods. No, and this is where I had to earlier, like the airport, like New Orleans, you know he's taking a bus from Miami to New Orleans. He's not flying. No, right. He's not flying, let's be honest. Right. So Blanche emerges from the bedroom. She's got a date in the middle of the day, I said. And she looks really fetching in this teal dress. She looks great. And she's walking normally. She's upright. Yeah. Girl, have a look. Blanche, where are you going? I have a date.

Winnie. Blanche laughs. Ep over. So...

good. So good. Excellent writing. Excellent jokes. Excellent jokes. The whole lesbian moment between Dorothy and Blanche. I'm obsessed with that. It's very funny. It's very good. Cheesecakes, join our Facebook group, please. It's the Golden Girls Deep Dive Podcast Discussion Group. We had asked you to get in there and put your favorite picture of your Halloween costume, but I also want to know your take on Michael. Do you think Michael's cute or not? Yes, we should have a poll. We need a cutometer in there. Well, how do we do that? I don't know. We can do a poll on Facebook. I'll

I'll put the poll in the Facebook group. Come see me on Tour of Cheesecakes. I just announced 10 new cities. I'm up to 17 cities total. Four of the shows are already sold out. Tickets are going fast. So it's PatrickTours.com. Come spend an evening with me and meet your fellow Cheesecakes. It's going to be really, really fun. Follow us on our social media. Yes. Right? It's Golden Girls Deep Dive on Instagram. You know the Facebook group. And we love you. Cheesecakes, we love you so much. Thanks for listening. Love you. Oh, also, thank you for being a friend by telling a friend about our podcast.

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