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You're listening to Status Untraced, a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals participating in the podcast. This podcast also contains subject matter which may not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised.
India has reopened its borders to foreign tourists and has ended a 20-month clampdown due to the coronavirus pandemic. The reopening of international borders comes at a time... We purchased tickets, scheduled to land in New Delhi November 17th, 2021, two days after travel restrictions lift. In preparation for the trip, I dig deeper into the Parvati Valley. What I find is chilling. A dark pattern stretching back decades.
The earliest I find it begins is in the summer of '91. Odette Houghton, 24, from Australia, was living her travel dream in India, regularly writing to her family and sharing her adventures. Suddenly, the letters sent to Odette began to return, and she was reported missing. She was last seen in Manali, but since, there has been no trace of her.
August 1996, Ian Mugford, a 21-year-old from the UK, was exploring the Himalayan village of Manikaran. There, he befriended a Baba, and soon after, Ian disappeared. To date, there's been no sign of him. September 1997, Nedav Mincer, 26, an Israeli soldier, went missing in the Parvati Valley.
Four years later, his passport was discovered being offered for sale in Manali markets, and his remains were found wrapped up in a sleeping bag. July 2000, two young German travelers, Jorge Weirich and Adrian Meyer Tesch, were camping in the valley when they were ambushed in their sleep. Adrian escaped with four shotgun wounds to the leg, but Jorge was killed at point-blank range. A month later,
UK resident Martin Young was camping in the valley with his fiancee Maria and her 14-year-old son Cristobal when they were also attacked. No one was arrested. No witnesses ever came forward. Martin is the only one who survived. July 2007, five Israelis and a tour guide set out from Kirganga on a Sunday morning. Dror Shek, 23, started to lag behind. One of his friends went back to look for him and found Dror lying near the path bleeding.
Beside him, a knife stained with blood. The hikers carried Dror back to Kyrgyzstan. He didn't make it. August 2015. A year before Justin's disappearance, Bruno Muszelik, a 24-year-old Polish traveler, went missing in the Parvati. Bruno's father, Pieter, was suspicious of the police's efforts and has filed a report with the High Court of Himachal Pradesh demanding an independent agency investigate law enforcement. June 2016.
Just two months before Justin began his trek, 27-year-old Japanese backpacker Shota Sakai shared a photo on Facebook of an Indian man in a dhoti. He captioned it, "My guru." It's believed Shota was headed to the Parvati for a music festival, but two weeks after the guru post, all his communications went cold. Records hint that over 57 foreign travelers died in the region between '98 to 2009 alone, but the true number of disappearances is likely more harrowing.
I've remained hesitant to jump to conclusions about foul play within Justin's case. After all, motives are murky, reasons unclear. Why target him? But now, looking at this list, my skepticism is giving way. And what I find out next leaves chills running down my spine. Just past midnight, 21 hours before our flight, The Times of India publishes breaking news. A tourist, last seen on the trail leading to Kyrgyzstan,
has just gone missing. I'm Liam Luxen, and this is Status Untraced. Episode 6: He Looks Guilty
It's nearing 7:00 p.m. when Alex and I check in at LAX. Our itinerary: Paris first, then onward to New Delhi. The trip is long. In fact, it's the longest flight I've ever been on. But for the majority, I'm awake. Gazing out over an endless ocean, the weight of reality begins to sink in.
In a few hours, we'll be landing in India, a place I've never been before. And though I've been working on this case for months, this next step feels different. It's been five years and two months since Justin Alexander was last seen. If we're going to unravel this mystery, we will have to venture into the paths untaken. We'll have to face the same dangers that Justin did. Do you need anything else? Thank you. Have a good day.
We emerge from the New Delhi terminal under a moonlit sky and are immediately hit with the heat and thick smog of the city, a type of air that sours my eyes and scrapes my lungs. Our driver, a weathered local, leads us to a beat-up minivan. As we navigate the foggy highways, colorful lights from street vendors' wagons pass by in a blur. They wave their wares at us.
Everything from exotic snacks and trinkets. The roadside is dotted with little fires. I watch as flames cast shadows over the faces of the homeless, the deletes. Wanderers and families alike, they huddled together and alone, curled up on the dirt ground. An hour passes. We arrive at our accommodations, somewhere in a neighborhood called Lajpat Nagar, and enter a four-story building squeezed in among countless others. I'm disoriented. I need to sleep.
but I'm stressed about the days to come. - You feeling rested? - Yeah, ish. - I don't think I can go back to sleep. - It's 7:30 right now, so. - Yeah. - Day one. - Day one. - When I was stateside, I reached out to people in New Delhi to schedule interviews. Essentially, no one responded, except one guy. - Kabir? Wonderful, glad to meet you. - Kabir, how are you? - Say hello to Kabir, part guide, part enigma.
Though his frame is small, Kabir's network is vast. — People know that I was linked to the search for Bruno. — Yeah. — So people keep informing me, sometimes the cops, sometimes friends. — He offered to help with our investigation, but anticipated in New Delhi and India in general, it'd be difficult to schedule interviews. — So we start knocking on doors.
Our first prospect is a detective company called P.I. Sleuths, a group that could help us track down individuals across the country. We drive to their address and step out into a street of chaos. Bicycle carts and three-wheeled buggies dash around corners. Motorcycles and mopeds, sometimes seated with three to four people, weave through throngs of pedestrians, wild dogs, and cows that roam the streets. And the scents,
Aromas of ginger and spice and dusty air are inescapable. I find an intercom for PI sleuths and ring the call button. But no one is available. I wish I could say it was our only hiccup of the day, but bad luck follows us throughout Delhi. Be it the embassy or an expert on India syndrome, everyone's too busy to talk.
Managing to make one success, I do speak with the recipient of Justin's last sent WhatsApp message. Yeah, this must be the auntie. Namaste ji. Auntie owns a motorcycle shop at the center of a swarming market. He gave me call only on that time, and after that he never gave me any call. Got you. She confirms that she mailed the Royal Enfield Motorcycle part, the starter, to the U.S. for Justin. While to me, it indicates he intended to return home,
This is where Dele's trail goes cold. Not many answers here. With every rebuffed interview, my thoughts keep drifting back to the other disappearances in the Parvati Valley. Are there clues in their stories? Any parallels that might shed light on what happened to Justin? In particular, I think about the story that just broke, Dhruv Agarwal, and it feels obvious, almost inevitable. We need to look into it. - I'm going to Mexico City, and it's going to be an awesome vacation.
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From a Times of India article, we know that Dharuv Agarwal, age 32, was from New Delhi and was last heard from on November 9th, about a week ago. The Times quotes Dharuv's cousin, who said, he boarded a bus to Kisol on November 8th. He wanted to trek to Kyrgyzstan.
He made a WhatsApp video call on November 9th at 12:25 pm. And he last checked his second WhatsApp account at 12:37. It's not much to go on, but Kabir came through with a potential lead. He's obtained the number for Dhruv's brother. So, I came to know that you lost your brother a couple of days ago in Parvati.
— Kabir asks the brother if he would be open to speaking with us. — He said he's not interested really in talking with us, huh? Not yet? — He thinks his brother's still alive? — Did he say why he went up there?
According to the brother, Dhruv embarked on the Kierganga hike for exercise. But Kabir's heard other stories. There's been murmurs suggesting Dhruv's family might be concealing his real reason for the trip. Furthermore, Kabir learned a significant detail that the Times of India failed to report. He made it to where?
On the trek? On the trek, just beyond the dam there. Okay. And there's a camera there that they saw in the city? Yeah, at the dam. Yeah, you cross that. At the Kirganga trailhead, there is a dam. Supposedly, a newly installed CC camera caught footage of Dhruv starting the hike alone. We asked if Dhruv's family hired a private investigator. But Kabir explains PIs in India tend to be contracted for other services, like tailing unfaithful spouses.
However, Dhruv's family has engaged a Parvati Valley search and rescuer. Kabir says they need to be warned what they're paying for.
I'm not entirely sure what he means by that statement, so I ask him to clarify. This guy, he's been highlighted by the police, the department and all as a rescue guy. Yeah. You know, he parties around with the cops and everything. Yeah. And he charges a high amount for his search operations. We believe from our research and things that he could be the culprit. The people who are missing.
You think he's like robbing them and then taking the stuff? He's basically murdering them, I believe. After that, posing to look for the people. To get the money. Yeah, to get the money. Extract the money from the family or the embassy or the... Is that all speculation or do you have... I don't have evidence. There's no evidence. You cannot say it is speculation. You see...
What Kabir is saying is that this search guy might actually be murdering people in order to funnel more work into his business. It's a pretty heavy claim, and honestly, I'm not sure what to make of it. For obvious legal reasons, we'll give the search and rescuer an alias. We'll call him Korkhan. To my knowledge, he was never hired for Justin Alexander's case.
Nevertheless, hearing these rumors, I'm getting anxious to get to the Parvati. So I look to Kabir, seeking guidance. We take Kabir's advice and are on a flight to the mountains the next morning.
Our aircraft to Kulu is a mid-sized twin prop plane. There are maybe less than 10 other passengers on board. As we lift off, we break through the smog and the first rays of light peek over the horizon. It's not long before I catch a glimpse of snow-capped giants, the Himalayan mountains, looming like gods.
They're all at once majestic, fierce, and terrifying. Touching down on a small open runway, we step off the aircraft in complete awe. Wow. Wow. This is incredible. Holy shit. Shortly after, we are greeted by our driver and new guide, Kabir's nephew, Arshdeep. The breathing quality difference is just so insane. That's why I didn't go to Delhi. Yeah. But I want to avoid that.
Arshdeep operates a trekking and motorcycle expedition company. Like his uncle Kabir, he's from this district and has assisted with missing person cases. All these houses, beautiful color, blues, greens, yellow. We're along the right side of the valley. Every hill is a collection of pine and oak that tower up towards the sky. Colored rooftops dot the colossal landscape, and all of it is covered by a blanket of misty clouds.
Just living in some clouds today. We swing around a bend and a soft rumble begins to grow. The river, glistening like sapphire. Its color is unlike anything I've ever seen. I'm genuinely surprised by how many houses and cafes and stuff are along the road. The buildings multiply, the blacktop shifts to cobblestone, and within minutes, we're inside a lively market. We've hit the heart of the district capital, Kulu.
where an essential stop awaits. - He's here. - Yeah. - He is here? - Enclosed by a barbed wire gate, we enter the two-story unassuming office of the superintendent of police. - Hello. - How's it going? How are you doing? Wonderful. - From the looks we get, I can tell it's a rare sight. Foreigners at police headquarters requesting an unscheduled chat with the superintendent. Much to my astonishment, he accepts a meeting with us, but only off mic.
He's new here, just five months in, and Justin Alexander's case isn't on his radar. I provide him with the case number, and he promises to do what he can to search for information on the porter, Anil Kumar. Out of curiosity, I also ask what he knows about the search and rescue work, Kaur Khan. He states, matter-of-factly, that the man is a well-known figure in the Parvati, even lending a hand in police searches. I sense it's the extent of an opinion we'll hear from an officer of the law.
But I want to know more. So after our meeting, we head to Arshdeep's home for lentils and rice, and I casually bring up Korkhan's name. — And so I was speaking with Kabir. What do you think about — — According to Kabir, it's a different thing. That he thinks that every person missed in the valley is found by most other cases. So he thinks that he knows who's doing the things and who's the main culprit and
— But what do you think? What's your impression of him? — See, I never had a conversation with this guy. — Yeah. — So I can't— because I never met him and never dealt with him. But I can't say things like that easily, you know? — In contrast to his uncle Kabir, Arshdeep's a bit more careful in his thinking, not one to rush to judgments or conclusions. And that impartiality catches my attention. You see, before we left for India,
the interrogations of Baba Rawat and Anil Kumar were translated and transcribed into English. Although we can read the words, we lack the cultural understanding to discern if how any of it is being said is suspicious. We needed a trustworthy local to help us decipher it, and I'm now thinking, Arshtip could be that person.
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I'm Dan Taberski. In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York. I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad. I'm like, stop f***ing around. She's like...
I can't. A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast. It's like doubling and tripling, and it's all these girls. With a diagnosis the state tried to keep on the down low. Everybody thought I was holding something back. Well, you were holding something back intentionally. Yeah, well, yeah.
You know, it's hysteria. It's all in your head. It's not physical. Oh my gosh, you're exaggerating. Is this the largest mass hysteria since The Witches of Salem? Or is it something else entirely? Something's wrong here. Something's not right. Leroy was the new dateline and everyone was trying to solve the murder. A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios. Hysterical.
Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. This is the Bobber questioning. He's in the SP office, I think. This looks like an SP office. What are they talking about right now? He's just asking the questions about, like... The interrogation video of Bobber Watt unfolds in an office much like the superintendents we were in earlier.
It's shot on Jonathan Skeels' iPhone and shows Babruwat, a thin man with a tangled beard and orange turban, standing before a desk, uncuffed. Seated around the room are Susie Reeb, a few police officers, and several Indian men in plain clothing. One of these men is Rohan, a local who translates for Susie and Skeels. But it's worth noting that at the time, this footage was not professionally translated. In full,
The recording is 11 and a half minutes, but we've narrowed it down to these key points. Baba Rawat says Justin approached him in Kyrgyzstan. I said, "Okay, you can learn yoga. Serve Baba, and then only you learn yoga." Sometime later, he told Justin that he needed to go to Montelay Lake. He said, "I will also go." I said, "Then come." Then he went with us.
"Who was there with you?" "Sir, I had taken a porter along." Baba Rawat says Justin managed his own gear, while the porter carried Baba's items. Their journey began from Kierganga on August 28th. They made overnight stops along the way and reached Montilai on September 4th. Baba Rawat wanted to descend that same day, but Justin wanted to stay behind.
That's when he says four Indian trekkers arrived. So I told them I don't know English. Tell Justin in English that go with Baba. Otherwise, if something happens to you, then Baba will get defamed. Baba Rawat recounts that he and the porter proceeded down the mountain and reached the resting stop of Pundapur by 5 p.m. Justin supposedly arrived later, around 8 p.m. We stayed for the night. Eight to ten more people who were going to Mantalay. They also had stopped there.
No questions were asked about these 8-10 people. In the morning on 5th, Ras Thakur Kohn sat a little and had some food, smoked some chillum. And then I said to Porter, "You go ahead, make some eggs and food and keep it ready. I will reach slowly by evening." So, Porter went ahead. Behind was Justin and after that me. And in between Thakur Kohn and Tonda Vuj, where he stayed, he fell down or what happened, I don't know. Sir, I do not know.
Why didn't you report after he had not come? Justin is missing. I have come this side from Baidyanath for the first time. Sir, I don't know much about this place. I ask Arshjib if he finds Babarawat's answers suspicious. See, that's...
For the full interrogation, Baba Rawat sticks to his story. Despite neglecting to report Justin is missing,
he didn't run or hide, nor give any indication that he intended to. All things considered, he doesn't sound as malicious as the role he's been cast in. Put him inside. Arrest him. Take him out. Call the second one. After Baburawat, the porter, Anil Kumar, is immediately summoned for interrogation, but it's not recorded.
Only on October 26th, five days after Baba Rawat's death, is Anil questioned again and it's caught on tape. This time, it's a different office, different police officer. Anil Kumar, who looks to be 20-something, clutches a red beanie and shifts his weight anxiously. The recording lasts an hour and 12 minutes. But again, we've distilled it down to these key points.
Anil says the trek began on August 28th. He, too, describes reaching Mantalay on the 4th and how Justin wanted to stay behind, but ended up meeting them later that night at Pundapur. The following day, Anil says they continued down the mountain and reached the rest stop of Taku Kuan by 12:30. We had Prasad and they had Chilam. Then Baba told me to make food at Thanda Bhuj.
What did Justin say? Justin didn't say anything. He used to agree to whatever Baba said. Okay. So I picked up all the ration and other things and I came straight to Thundabuj. This portion of the hike takes about four to five hours for Anil, who reaches Thundabuj around 5 p.m. He says Baba Rawat arrived an hour later.
After coming, Baba asked me directly that Justin is not seen. I said, "Baba, he was with you. I left him with you." He said, "Okay. Must be here or there clicking some photos." Then? Then after some time, he sent me to look for him. Some people were coming. I asked them, "Did you see some foreigner?" They said they had not seen. Why didn't you tell the police after that?
I told Baba if he doesn't come in two, three days, then we should make a police complaint. Baba said, okay, he will come. Susie Reeb then intervenes, posing a question to the officers. One of the stories say that Justin and the porter had a fight or an argument and somebody got hurt. That was one of the very first stories that we heard. We heard about a fight from the hiker, Nirmal Patel.
But according to him, the argument was between Justin and the Baba, not Anil Kumar. Because that's what the Baba said and I'd like to know... What they want to ask is that between you and Justin, there was a fight? And Baba has given his statement. No, sir. Nothing like that has happened. Nothing with me. Then what happened in this? Someone was hurt a little or was injured badly? No, no, no. Nothing of this sort has happened. There was no meaning of a fight. We went together and came back together.
Did any fight take place in front of you? No, absolutely nothing. What do I have to do with fight? Okay, he's denying this fact. He's denying. There was no fight between him and you, sir. According to him. That day, they left Taku Kwan for Tundabush. Was anyone else on the trail? Did he see anyone else? There was a local party there. How many people were there? There were five to six people.
— He's saying that there are five to six local people. — Okay. — At Thakur Kua. — Does he know these people? These five people? — Do you know any one of those people? — No, sir. They were all locals, and I'm also new here, so I don't know them. — They continue to press Anil for a reason why neither he nor the baba ever filed a missing person report.
Sir, that Baba told me that he will come in one or two days. I said, all right. Then I got busy with other work. Anil circles back to the same points, that Justin was Baba's student, and that Baba assumed Justin wandered off with other travelers. But here's where things get weird. The cops demand Anil Kumar to speculate what happened. What do you feel happened to him? Tell us that.
Like I feel that either you people have done something to him or Baba has done something to him. What do you feel? What do I feel, sir? I don't know. Either you have killed or Baba has killed. One of you have done something. Did something like this happen? No, sir. I had gone ahead. He would have come behind you. Baba was fragile. There are two people more were sitting. I moved ahead. I had to make food. If you will tell the truth, then only you will be released.
Don't worry, nobody will hit you. Whatever I knew, I told you sir. I don't know anything as I came ahead. Has this Baba done anything like this before? Has somebody else gone missing like this with him? I don't know sir. I just met him in Kheerganga. What do you think happened to Justin? I'm still asking you. I don't know sir. I can't tell where he is and what happened.
He's saying that he's having no idea about just... So, what I want to say to him is this. If he's had nothing to do with my son's disappearance, I apologize that he is going through the interrogation. However, if he's withholding something, it will be his karma. And I don't... I'm sorry for him. Can we say that? Take this one very well.
Listen to me. If you are telling the truth, then they are saying that we are feeling bad that you are in custody of police at this time. But if not, then they'll also do everything possible to make sure you get punished. But I am telling the truth, whatever it was. I'm not telling lies. I'm telling the truth. An innocent man would do everything he can to find out the truth. Why is this man such a coward? At least an opinion. An innocent man would be remorseful, would say...
- To Suzy, he would say, "I'm sorry that your son is missing. I had nothing to do with it." But this man can't stand there and even look at her. Tell him he looks guilty. To me, he looks guilty. - Skeels and Suzy's frustration boils over, and the police, they just stand there. - What should I say? - If you have not done anything, then you could have told them that I have not done anything. - He's a coward for not going back. He's a coward for not telling the truth. Tell him.
If he was telling the truth, you'd have remorse. Please tell him he's a coward. Did you feel sorry for them? Have you apologized that I was with him and during this visit he got disappeared? But I don't have an idea about this. I have no fault in this. Did you say this? To them? No, I have not said anything to them. Do you want to say anything to them?
She is his mother. You want to tell something to them? Sir, I have not done anything. I have not seen also. I have stopped anger also. I don't know anything about previous things. And that's it. The video ends. Watching these interrogations, they feel fumbled. The situation is a delicate one, as I feel for Susie and Skeels, who are just craving progress. Yet, having them practically lead the interrogations seems like gross misconduct.
Their assertive approach leaves me with the impression that it steered the investigation, most likely without them even realizing it. Delving into case specifics, these recordings revealed that before Justin went missing, he passed at least three groups on his descent, and from my knowledge, law enforcement never approached any of them. I'm lost in thought about all these neglected leads when I notice Archdeep steps outside to take a call. When he returns...
He says he's put out an interview request to a group who can provide some more answers. A little eager, I ask if it's possible to have them come by that very evening. - How's it going? - That's Manu. That's Liam. - Liam. - We pull together chairs in a cold, rustic dining hall and flick on a single space heater. - Manu. - Yeah. - Very nice to meet you. - We meet Manu and Jagdish, two rugged men that run one of the few search and rescue companies here in the Valley.
Manu carries most of the conversation, as Jagdish speaks a little English. Manu walks me through the numerous cases he's been involved in, among them, Justin's. When did you first hear about Justin's disappearance?
The administration approached us to do that. I'm sorry, who did you say? With the administration, like police approached us. Basically, at that time we thought it's just a recovery case. Like we have to go there and pick the body or the person. So police approached us and they told that he was missing near Tunda Wuj.
and we go there and search with the police team. And we take around 12 days there. Manu and Jagdish briefly switch to Hindi, and Arshdeep translates an unusual detail about this search. The police guys, they sent this porter with them for the last search and rescue, you know. So during that, this porter started clarifying a few things.
We know the porter, Anil Kumar, assisted a search team at some point in the investigation. But we didn't know who. In light of the news that it was Manu and Jagdish, I ask what exactly the porter started to clarify. I pause.
trying to process the words Manu just said. He says the porter, Anil Kumar, told them that the group coming down the mountain with Justin was not a total of three, but five. Did the porter, did Anil say that they were all together? Yeah, that's what he's saying. So the two other people that you're referring to right now that were with them, do you know their names? No, no, no. Nobody knows. If true...
This means moments before Justin vanished, he left with the baba and these two individuals. Allegedly, Anil Kumar does not know who started down the mountain after him, but claims what happened next was strange. After maybe an hour or so, this couple crossed Anil Kumar because he was carrying a luggage with him, quite a heavy one. The first were the couples to arrive at Tundabhuj. And the day Justin was lost, this couple, they didn't stay in Tundabhuj.
— They came straight to Kheerganga's. — And they never came forward and talked to the police? — They didn't do anything. — This couple breezed past Anil. They did not stop, nor make any mention of the baba or Justin. They just continued on, silent and alone. So who are they? And what do they know? Coming up on Status Untraced. — I find it tough to believe, actually.
There's something more to the story which they're hiding. And trust me, there are plenty of Babas that are corrupt and Sadhus who are trying to rip you off. They believe that there was some, you know, sort of a backstab by the police. During that time, a lot of people got killed and it was definitely the same group of people. I mean, from that, the whole story, do you feel suspicious at all about the guy and the girl or just the Baba? Yeah, the same thing all three had done.
If you have tips or information on the individuals in this podcast, please email us at [email protected] or leave us a message at 407-2833. Status Untraced is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. I'm your host, Liam Luxen. Executive Producers are Alex Vespested, Donald Albright, and Payne Lindsey. Producers are Meredith Stedman and myself.
Supervising Producer is Tracy Kaplan. Consulting Producer, Jonathan Skeels. Associate Editors are David Bash and Charles Rosner of Get Up Productions. With additional editing by Sydney Evans. Artwork by Trevor Eyler. Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Our theme song is "Colder Heavens" by Blanco White. Mix by Cooper Skinner. Voice acting provided by Omer Walla, Sameer Goel, Kaushal Patel, and Panaki Kaur.
Thank you to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at UTA, Beck Media and Marketing, and the Nord Group. And also special thanks to Arshdeep Sharma and Kabir Sharman, to Samir at India Someday, who juggled all of our endless last-minute itinerary switch-ups, and to Neha Bharara. For maps and exclusive photos related to the podcast, find us on Instagram, at Status Untraced. For more podcasts like Status Untraced, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app.
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It's Madeline Barron from In The Dark. I spent the past four years investigating a crime. When you're driving down this road, I plan on killing somebody. A rock. A rock.
A four-year investigation, hundreds of interviews, thousands of documents, all in an effort to see what the U.S. military has kept from the public for years. Did you think that a war crime had been committed? I don't have any opinion on that. Season three of In the Dark is available now, wherever you get your podcasts.