S4E11: Who Do You Think They Were?
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When I stumbled upon an old box full of V H. S. Tapes and police reports, I didn't expect uncover connections to several unsolved murders near my hometown a bit, investigating how these murders could be connected to a group called the lords of death. Check out this clip from the show.

So tied at two on his ARM. That was just letters. I said, L O D.

And I ask mike what L O D stood for. And I was told a stood for lords of death. So ask, you know, for the meaning behind IT.

And only a couple people had the tattoo, apparently. And in order to get the tattoo, you had to take someone soul as a murder. Someone is what I was told, but never really clicked with me, that I was like they were really the lords of death.

I could just see them being like a cool were the lords of death. And that really meaning nothing, is how I looked at IT. But I was wrong and meant a lot.

Treasure banks hosted the new tenderfoot v podcast lords of death, foreign free bench subscribe a tender foot plus a tender fu plus out .

com up and vanished in the .

midnight sun is released every thursday and brought to you absolutely free, but for a free listening and exclusive bonuses subscribed to tender fu plus a tender fit plus dot com or on apple podcasts. Up and vanished in the midnight sun is intended for mature audiences and may include topics that can be upsetting, such as emotional, physical in sexual violence, rape and murder. The names of survivors have been changed for anonymity purposes. Testimony shared by guest of the show is their own and does not reflect the views of tender for T, V or osa.

Thank you so much listening.

He was a cab driver for a checker cab. He dropped, everybody is soft, but her and he says, you know what? I could have killed you .

and nobody would have known about IT. He pulled out at night.

This guy, thanks again.

What was the name that you knew him about?

Organ, jan.

I was the last person. See, or a line besides the guy had killed.

The more you look into IT, the more unanswered questions and red flags there were. Everybody was pretty consistent about what they said about Joseph. You're dealing with a successful professional person who just finishes the state's conclusion. He had been attacked by a bear and they just didn't find the .

body there going to be parts and .

pieces .

that the body is not interesting.

doesn't want to be found.

or someone doesn't want .

him to be found.

So you, as were never boyfriend.

girlfriend, were just for him.

Friends and our friends.

do you still have .

the text so you can everything I had on my phone was gone.

The roomy flied about is wear about on saturday night. There was also an issue with parental testing your friends to try and get them to create an hour by.

I was trying to save musin just from what .

there not like you were doing anything wrong.

If you come to know you're not going to go very far, you go about any mal that way, any other way, about seven, five.

When I first touched down a nom about two years ago now, the first person I met was this guy literally on the plane there. And within the first hour of me being there, he was talking to me on record.

body.

Sure about that.

Where does that tell you? Do you not there?

There's a lot of people that come up to high because you can disappear, appear if you want me to have been a known now for twenty five years, love people. They show up here, 也没有 办。 过了。

He's a gold miner who's been there for two decades, and he seemed to hear a lot of talk in the town about floridans, ocp, oex disappears.

west beach. There was a lot of people out there looking .

for her all .

the way up to that country. I don't know grandma who he was weird for a work, you know, but I do know that he was supposedly last thing with this guy. They found her danger. He is, can do.

You know who that guy may have been?

No, I don't know the guys. I don't even man. And I and I think logically and a logically think he got a one in the wrong. Can some people don't like .

that drive down .

the down beach? You just see somebody walking along and jump back, killing that don't make any sense either. You want to have some interaction.

And people on that beach is really had interaction with her. Where the guy won't? I don't know. He's not know. I don't know, we went, but I do know that if I was an investigator, I been on here as like the one ship.

Do that.

哒哒 哒哒。

From tender fd TV in atlantic, this is up and vanished in the midnight sun. Chapter two, i'm your host pin lenzing.

Where the guy, when I don't know what kind of hard .

to forget this guy, an old town minor, and noone who seems to have heard all the other other no.

he's not. No, I don't know. We went, but I do know that if I was an investigator or I be on, he has as like, stink on shit.

I love that line. And he was right. He was not in known.

He wasn't catch a kalash. And he goes by the name of organ. john.

I was was a year I was driving a taxi cab up and know you've been to know.

Let's revisit my interview with john for a second.

Why do I I get to remember the girl come and hanging out my time when and SHE walked off somewhere and somebody .

didn't have to mood.

And yeah yeah, he passed. And in the morning I welcomes, he was gone to lift her shoes both. Well, there was no chase on.

Why did they thought and think you did in that?

Because I was the last person known to have seen her a lot. SHE just vanished. And I thought I did. It's my baLance. I was the last person see her a lot besides the guy killed.

besides the guy who killed her. We go on all day about the things that john said that don't sit well with me, but going back and listening again.

Something did stand out to me.

though, is correct. You have no idea. Three times in the last twelve, the low enforcement department has been shut down and taken over by the, they are so corrupt of this is crazy.

We know about the judge that disappear, right? No yeah yeah. They to the bears he's .

talking about, Joseph.

those moved to alaska to be but eighty percent of people they killed. The nobody finds .

out in unsolved .

murder cases. The inevitable always happens. The conspiracy theories, the because IT they're in on IT. This person's a suspect, that person's a suspect. But rarely, any of those things actually true. On the first day at noon, I talked to ray for about two hours, and he was very well aware of just a boldre is disappearance too.

The bears going to eat is not to eat your ten issues. I just don't think that's what happened to how of my animals want to bear reach. You you going to leave something? I've seen people get need up here before, you know? And there's something always left.

What I think happened doing there's using the wrong person, wrong down. The guy was just in the wrong place. I think maybe what the non drug deals going on and so like that and they just that happens.

Do I think you'll ever finding. People hunt, they feel here, somebody will come across something if I was there. I don't think he's there. I think he's very illusion. Somewhere there's OK the things can happen to you here when go right back to adami can enable the human species is the only species that will kill from the region or that kind people.

I just .

see you, I see IT that don't .

mean because 上 T V.

you watch your crime story, you take your stories, you're always body get killed, which you never see. The end result that the family and people are effective by lag day dead. Nice to dish people on me. He was in the wrong place, the wrong time.

referring to Jones case.

Yes, I never heard if i'm being involved in drugs. What I hear he never was a with, but his roommate was. Why anto held you try out tear.

I mean, I should not have going right clear out there. I can see everything I won't see from the road that's just expect to me. I don't think he's there, his cars there.

If I did the guy, and I guess I drive his corner and make a look like you got lost. When he disappeared, there was lots of people looking for him. They may need bear. They would found something, I think, his carbon driven .

out there.

Joseph dropping at a communication with his Fiona early in the morning on saturday, din twenty fifth than a truck surfacing forty plus miles outside the city, parked in a strange spot, is just a flat out, confusing at a circumstances. But with nobody in this case, Joseph truck remains a central piece of evidence.

I don't know. IT seems awful .

suspicious without .

a piece of anything to go on other than fish truck.

This is jim west, and no local who is helping sphere had the search back in the day. The first private investigator interviewed gym a few weeks, afford ers have disappeared.

We've been searching, rescue that the last person gonna seen within about a mile, half a mile of a truck. And we covered all. You told a cracked I, yes.

Did you note anything .

suspicious about the truck? S, I, S, T.

There were several sightings of Joseph truck that weekend, some of which don't seem to really. But the thing is, sometimes eyewitnesses can just be wrong. But not everybody, not much of evidence value was ever found in jose's vehicle.

But a cell phone is missing along with him, and it's not the only important thing missing. In march of two thousand sixteen, about two months before Joseph went missing, he went to a local outdoors store and no me and purchase a handgun, a tourist P T, one one, one g two subcompact, nine millimeter. But according to jose's friends and family, he wasn't really that into guns, so wasn't for protection, just the fire off rounds and the wilderness, we don't really know.

What we do know is that is missing, along with its traveling case, where to go, according to the alaska state troopers report, upon their first visit inside Joseph home, they noted, quote, no signs of foul play, no blood, broken objects, bleach, freshly cleaned areas, eeta. But they did notice a full box of american ego. Nine million etre amo in jose's room in exactly one round was missing from the amo box, but the state troopers didn't seem to find this interesting at all.

Both the gun and the case are missing. Not only was his gun missing this new handgun that he had purchased, but the case for the long gun was missing. I think that's a very significant fact. The troopers didn't even enter that handgun into .

the computer .

is an interest. I mean, this is just my impression. The case was done. They had moved on and they didn't want to reopen IT and do more work done. This has been completely .

overlooked. The missing .

gun and the case that went with IT is really excited. I think. I mean, they just completely ignored the whole issue. These are big leads to follow up on in a missing persons case.

What does that tell you?

There's somebody stalled the gun he's missing and somebody stole the gun. Something happened to him and his gun in the case disappeared.

So what can I say never to those still for you .

in your head that he was murdered?

Let's go back to Christine for a second in the whole frustrating story about her cell phone. In one version, Christine says her brother punched in her password and then somehow disabled .

her phones. Had picked in one of the races he was wanting to record IT. So he flicked up and took a pitch record IT IT or something.

And then my brother is a jack as he likes to fuck with things. And so he punched in my password and disabled my phone. So I had to restore IT as a new phone.

I have an iphone, like a lot of us do, and here's how this actually works. After you punch in the wrong pass code six times, the phone will lock you out for one minute on the seventh five minutes, eighth fifteen minutes, eighth one hour. And finally, if you put the wrong pass code in ten times in a row, IT will permanently lock you out.

Her brother must have been a pretty type. er. What's interesting is that at the time, Christine had an iphone six s one of the last iphones that you could unlock with a thumbprint.

So her brother disables IT because he doesn't know her pin code, but then all the sudden he couldn't remember her pencoed either. I'm confused who exactly disabled the phone. He disabled .

that I member my pink code because, you know, the iphone I could use my son, and so I thought I was using. And so he disabled IT is so every pink code I thought I thought I would be I used and IT wasn't so I didn't disable. You know.

when IT comes to Christine restoring her iphone, we could split hairs on this all day. The bottom is it's fucked and weird.

So her phone is your raced. Immediately after those have disappears, her tire phone is erased.

That is a little bit concerning. Maybe it's odd timing or maybe not if you start looking around other places. People like Joseph roommate jay start to feel like a bigger part of the story.

The roommate was interviewed right away, told the troopers he was gone saturday night with friends, but that he saw josef the next morning walking down the hallway in the house sunday morning after Joseph had stopped responding anyone. He's the only person who claims to have seen Joseph on sunday.

So if his romney's jake is told the truth, he's the last person to see choice of alive history of sisters selena.

Everything doesn't add up. All the inconsistencies. He saw him morning with the backpack whenever somebody else witnessed the truck already planted out there on mile forty four. But all the other sightings from different people who aren't related, they don't connect. There are all different timings.

His roommate, jake, has stuck with the story of seeing Joseph on sunday, twenty four hours after anyone else had heard from him. The private investigator andy ask Christine about this.

Do you know if anyone who saw Joseph for the truck back in name after saturday afternoon?

Not that I know if I mean, jake had just moved in to my grand's house, my cousin and I don't know. I've never talked to jg about what he's saw, what he's sad.

Why not Joseph?

Fan, jake? I don't know if they really talk was just like A C oh you know type thing, but I I don't know.

Andy claims were interviewed one of josep co workers. Perhaps the more insight on jake and Joseph for relationship .

had josef said anything to you about his romance jaks that .

in bth is that is often quiet. We don't talk. I don't know what to do with him.

I said, have you tried? He said that he just comes. And girls, he is a dog that's messy into the nature.

L A time. He was messy and had a dog and was very strange. Because other that were ships in the night.

Jake was a lot Younger than Joseph and seemed to throw parties a lot at the house. And according to friends and family, Joseph didn't know like this, not to mention he wasn't paying his bill either. Jars has mention to a co worker on friday during twenty fourth, but he was really upset about jake using up all the internet and not paying for IT.

And this comment seemed out of character for him. How are you slice IT? There was clearly some tension there, aside from Joseph handgun, which is currently still missing when the police originally searches house, they took photos and notes of what they saw. But when they came back about a week later, they noticed something that wasn't there beforehand. A rifle.

there was wean involved. When the trooper went in to the room, he didn't see anything. And then all the sudden we goes back into the room. There was a rifle inside Joseph's room. Are you sold on that?

When they asked his romance jake about IT.

he claimed he didn't know whose IT was.

What do you mean they found?

A rifle in his room. Jx, uncle put IT there. Kevin. Kevin would be his uncle. What's uncle name?

Kevin IT was eventually learned that jack's uncle Kevin had just mysteriously put IT there unbonneted ed to j himself who just sets guns in people's houses and not tell them Kevin .

as good as a former officer that was fired. Why would he place a gun in somebody else's room after the guy went missing?

Mandy clAmbers briefly talked to jake when he was a note and asked about this rifle when .

the river had dropped off. Was IT in the case?

go. okay.

So you ever shot IT?

So after I got back, the my uncle bar is very hunting camera. yeah. nice.

Too bad that your uncle didn't just tell you he was drop at IT off.

This became a topic events on their conference calls, too, 就是。

on the arms。 I know a leader with that that's on account for said .

that we found a rifle in his house. We showed up and there was no rifle. We showed up again and there was a rifle.

So there is this disappearing and reappearing rifle. That jacket first claims wasn't his, only to find out later IT actually was his, but he just didn't know how I got there. But andy asked the state trooper surgeon cross about this.

The family and the attorneys .

were confused about the issues surrounding the three or eight rifle that Kevin peskov put in the story geria. After Joseph disappeared, IT seemed onto them that jake wouldn't recognize the rifle which had been given to him as a gift by his father, a twenty year old who has given a nice rifle by his dad as a gift year before. Why would he not recognize that? Do you call anything about that?

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I think we need .

to go to the bat, I pet.

Me, everyone loves you are the pet.

This is, how can I help you?

Hi, I think my dog, my, eat his toy.

Let me get one of our bins on the line. Hey, you must be my life. Just take you to see our bit right away.

guys.

Open the E, R for this opens. Twenty four, seven.

pretty much right away. After he went missing, the family went out to know one of the family members. Talk to the roommate.

Here's Joseph ster. selena. We're calling her first visit to know.

We went to the search, the first search we were sitting with his mother and rust's parents, and this boy comes in in talks to bi SHE is .

referring to jack just was through me. But at the time, SHE didn't know that.

didn't know that was her son bony is his mother .

here just his mom? Noder IT was the room fall of people that.

just like his hand.

looked up and sell him and .

scratches all over his face. IT looked like somebody grabs your face and scratched you.

You would follow up on that. You'd talk to the people who were with him that something happened is face, get, preach. I mean, this is police work. What I want could have just been something that happened innocently. Bori could mention he was .

in a fight.

Something happened between him and Joseph, and Joseph for back. They could explain scratches.

I asked him to take pictures of his face.

your his mother, what's your mother 的 instincts about what may have happened？ Somebody did harm to him. IT was no bear.

He didn't gets lost. Somebody did harm to him. The scratches on jake face seemed fresh at the time. They didn't even know he was his roommate. As they started putting into into together, this became much more concerning .

when we realized that was his roommate. Everything starting to look shady. Now I told across, you need to interview him.

You need to go see IT feels like everybody y's connected, everybody y's scared. You live in this small city. You can get out of this small town. And many of the people that I have talked to that have told me things are very scared.

When we first met just of sister selena in his mother neta, you were at their home in love c texas for years. They had their own tip line in celina would answer every single call one call particular really stood out to her.

I just .

how 来 yeah hi， I was coming to, I guess reports and closed.

Okay, what would .

you like to report? okay. Um I was a nub in August. Talk everybody that I could talk to about IT. Nobody thought he was taken by a car. Nobody feels like he went out into the, I know, IT also, everything that was Christian an to square a her.

The relationship with josey was, for me, was that intimate.

Her sister had said that they were when we find girlfriend. And I know the family was kind of put the squeeze on him to kind of hook up with her. He went to their house for dinner and family dinners, and they treated him like family.

I talked to shorts at the native village .

council .

and in jack sentences works there. He told me that he let know he could go hope in the search, and he said no. He have to canalized later and he said, no, just so you know, I don't need to know the guy. I know there were romance, feel like there's .

a reason .

why he didn't go held.

I don't know made so and then he made a point to say that he didn't know him so I don't have anybody asked him if he didn't know help because they had the work because his supervision told him he could .

go help twice and .

then he said no and just so you know, I don't even know him.

I'm also talked to.

And I said, do you know what happened and he said, will we were out earlier that night? And he said, we departed about nine, but I can tell you that he was out to three A M, and jack had a party that night at his house the way.

because you went the same.

Do you know if there was anybody else looking at the house there to your knowledge that was just take and jokes?

no. And Kevin, to score A J .

uncle, was there a third roomy in the house too? This would change things.

Then I would really nerve the call, but I just kind of felt really strongly about the weird dealing I got from no al per square in bali.

She's referring to jake and Christ's family. From her impression, their behavior just seemed a little off.

They were really catty. And typically there the kind of people that are really penistone off. And just the more I kind of started asking around IT became clear that there was something like like you're covering up for each other or something.

I can explain that the parents of Christiaan is that we kind of gravitated towards being more friendly with that the old man moment. I mean, being very social. I just in a way. Trying there that was untold credibility or something.

There's a lot of things that need to be cleared up in this case. Why is IT that so many details are just inconclusive? I'm holding back as much as I can to not fall down all these rabid holes, but some of them seem actually worth expLoring.

It's time to dig a little deeper and push for our own tips. About a year ago, we made our own tip line for fluences ocp oic in Joseph, and we put up a fifty thousand dollar reward for information leading to an arrest. We did not put this number out publicly, but is very easy to find if you live in known for months and months. We got nothing, not a single call. But then, seemingly out of the blue, I started receiving very cyp tic anonymous messages.

pain, I want to stay anonyme, but I have a lot to tell you. I knew Kevin is coia, and I don't know why nothing came out about his dark past. He was crazy.

One time, Kevin told me something weird. He said, I know how to make people disappear. I used to be a cop. He was always anxious, always angry. On saturday, june twenty five, I was driving out IT was around three or four pm, and that's when we saw .

Joseph truck.

IT was off the road down the hill, and there were two men standing next to the vehicle. One was tall and the other was shorter. One had a black jacket, the other a blue one.

Both doors of the truck were open, and they had their backs to us and hoods covering their faces. They clearly didn't want us to see them. I never told the police this. What do you think they were a pain?

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Up and vanished in the midnight sun is a production of tenderfoot v in association with autism. Your host is pain. The show was written by pain lenzing with additional assistance from Michael ony.

Executive producers are Donald Operate and pain lenzing lead producer is Michael rony, along with producers dyan hering ton and Cooper skinner, editing by Michael ony and Cooper skinner with editing by Dylan hering ton. Supervising producer is Tracy cabin, additional production by Victoria macan I Alice kelland and eric kinda artwork. Rob sherman original music by makeup vanity set makes them mastered by couper skinner.

Thank you to orn rosing bomb and the team at uta, back commedia and marketing and the nord group. Special thanks to all of the families and community members that spoke to the team. Additional information and resources can be found in our show notes for more podcasts like up and vanished search tender of A T V on your favorite podcast APP or visit us at tenderfoot dot TV. Thanks for listening.

If you want to be a bigger part of the discussion here, go join the up and vanish discord. We put a link to IT in the episode description.

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