Case Evidence 09.03.24
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Veg, E, R, for pet. Oh, right my way. We're here.

I cannot believe you swallow your whole toy. Well, you can just get you to do. I wait. No, you stay with your pet.

Hi, i'm doctors. stick. Hey mo, i'm going to set on the floor with him so he can be more comfortable for the exam. I wasn't .

sure how serious .

IT was looking at the x ray. He's going to need surgery. But the good news, he should be OK.

We're lucky. There's a .

venge r pills. Opens twenty four, seven.

Welcome to up advances in the midnight side. Chapter two case evidence. I like rui. One of the producers have up and vanished.

We've been getting a lot of request from the listeners asking to hear the raw interviews from the private investigators tapes. So we're going to start releasing them today. We're sharing the interview that andy claim sare recorded with Christine.

right? This will be an interview between andy. Climbs are in question, but cos twenty nine of september twenty sixteen time now about two twenty four pm and were in the conference room at the era and and known, can you tell me how well you new job and how you guys map?

I have known joes have since you started working as a law clerk for the court because I was a he clerk when he first took on his first year of been clerk and since then we've ben friends and he stayed on for a long lot for two years. So how long I him?

So how close is your friendship? I mean, you do, you know him well. Did he share important personal things with you?

Some things he did? I mean, I would say wear friends because he would come to my family's dinner when we had ask for food during the winter, will have IT at least once a week, and then he occasionally joined for other dinners, like he went ever for Christmas breakfast. I don't remember he went over for thanksgiving, but you know, if my family was was like a second family to him, or a family here?

no. Can you to tell me what your general impressions of justify as a person? If somebody asked you to describe him, how would .

you describe him? He is really nice, outgoing, not really shy, but not putting himself out there. He did keep himself and k and just overall, all seem like a good person and I don't get any bad vives from him, just really nice.

And they just seem to be excited about moving the juno and getting married to magg and opening the law practice down there.

Yeah, he said he was excited that he can't wait. I mean, he had told me about he wanted to open a lot for months before he was gonna done here. Instead, he was saving up money and he was going to june often to look for a job that he could be into until he, but no lock from. And then he had told me about Megan, and I IT was asked him how they met. And he said that was his friend's x way facing as what he said in then, he had told me he was excited and was looking forward to IT OK.

And do that include, you know, write up until you disappeared was no change of heart that you were aware of.

Not what I know. I mean, he never said anything. All I knew he was excited.

Um did he talk much about his relationship with mag and his plans to get married?

We didn't talk about that much. He had only told me about her probably in the beginning of june and I think I was a big thing and that was about IT you pretty sure .

was as recently as the beginning of june.

And he said, yeah, I mean, I didn't know he was seen anybody until june.

Would you will call him saying about Megan and his plans?

He was saying that that was his girlfriend, that they were planning. He was like, i'm i'm going to ask for d to mary and we were talking about how the relationship started and he said IT was his friends and I said, just if you don't date to your friend's acts I mean, that's that's weird and I was like, that's like, okay, see you and I were dating and we broke up and I did did your best friend how would you feel about IT? It's like, I see your point, you're right, I said.

But I mean, if you all are cool with out, then go ahead. He's again that i'm gonna marry her. I said, if you're happy, then do IT yes, I am going to hi well, i'll do IT and okay, i'll support you because i'm your friend and if you're happy, then go head go and marry her.

He's like, well, thank you. I will, I will do IT OK. He does what he can saying.

He just, yeah, he wasn't .

june when he was telling me about.

do you know if he discussed with lake or acts?

I didn't even know that was his name. We didn't talk about him or who he was. I have, I have no idea who is.

No.

so, no, I guess.

So he came out the search. Did you meet him?

No, I add, IT was the only people I met was his parents and his sister, sila macho. And that was IT every time I went to the fire hall, I would just start prying so too hard for me. Then when I asked my family I should go out there, they said, no, because so ouldn't be too much anxiety for me.

Were you aware that he was planning to move in August and get marry? We got down there, daddy. Sure, specifics like them.

He was renting in a place out a nice of you and he wasn't really there because he was house sitting for judge us until he passed away. Then when janna was coming back, Joseph didn't want to a stay at janus because he had already given his place up out of ice of you between before judges died, he don't know when he gave a his place out of ice civil and so we were at dinner and he was telling me that he was looking for a place or needed a short term place, because he would be living in August, or, you know, living soon.

And when I was driving to drop him after jester's house, I was like, why don't you I gram to set her old out because they bought a new house. And so my grandmaster has her old house and nobody was staying there. And I said, just a fortune ice. And if you can stay there, I mean, he's like, would you charged me? And I said, I don't know.

You go ask, you go talk to because like he said, can you you just go asher said, no, Joseph, you if you need a place to stay, you go aster and then he's like, it's your grand though you could ask her said, i'm not living there and so we talked about IT. He was like, can you be with me when I ask her? I said, no, you're grown now you go ask her and then I was like, fine, just for you.

Ready now let's go. He's like, so we wouldn't talk to gram and i'm in gram figured out logistics, I guess, to him standing at her house. And so he was gonna at my grand's house until he was leaving.

you know, what was going on? And Joseph life, in the week leading up to his disappearance.

he was just working here. Mostly what he did here was probably work. And then he helped out with the no youth court.

Then when he wasn't busy doing that, he was either running or just been at home. I thought he was happy here. He seemed he liked IT here. Then from time to time, he would go out, you know, downtown. I mean.

you say that because you think that there are some possibility to commit suicide?

I don't think so. I did the feeling I have. I just don't think he would do that. But a lot of suicides, people don't know what they're thinking. I could even even tell or look Robin Williams, but I don't believe would even do that to do .

a lot of people, you know, always relatives and friends. And there nobody thought that was even possible, as parents are quite legions, and that would be awful for them. First IT, no note.

So everybody's left tiny. Nobody really thought that was a possibility. Did you see any depression issues or sadness or anything leading up to his disappear?

no. Because he told me I was happy he was looking for to things. Even in june, when we were at dinner one night, we were talking about how he was asking about the process of dry fish.

How do you make dry fish? And so we were going to take in the camp and when the fish we're running to show me how to make dry fish, and that was going to be the weekend of the fourth that we are going to do IT. And so he was looking forward to that because he just didn't believe, I guess he wanted to see how the process was. He mean, he was easily, no, but he wanted to see how he was.

And so the weekend of the fourth man was going.

which you going to go there too? I don't know. He was coming until the public think friday we had been now in, said he was coming in in the didn.

I don't have a problem because our families pretty open to people coming in. Yeah, I say have a good heart and stuff. We don't. We have an open door. So what .

would have been on? Yeah yeah I understand from reading all the other material that you went out within friday night until late, do you remember seeing anyone or interacting with anyone while you guys we're out?

No, because IT was well, was me just have in my sister and I mean, he to say, I think kim felt like he was a third will and so he didn't really interact with a lot of people because we would just sit there and talk like we always did who just talked about whatever is gone on or you know, just talking. And I didn't see him interact with a lot of people.

How about yourself or king? Did you guys run into people?

You know, I mean, you know, a lot of people. And so we said, I do a lot of people. We talk to other people. I mean, he was right there with us but and he was real cord you know saying hi or no i'm josep for you know just he remember who .

those people were they ran into ah there was .

a lot of people and at the time .

that wouldn't be something that you have to commit a memory guess. I'm just wondering if there's anyone that sticks out. Do you remember?

No, I mean, Joseph literally probably just talked and hang out with him. I when he didn't really put himself out there to be like I would jump in reading and being, you know, roll allowed him kind of want to hang out.

Do you remember anything that you guys talked about that night?

He was held me about Megan. And nothing really is just hit out. Nothing that I could remember that sticks out is just generally what we talk about.

What do you remember him saying .

about everything I said? I mean, he said he had a grow friend, said he was moving there. He once open a last friend that he was gonna married her.

And that's about IT saying he has to spend a police down there. And that was about IT. And I guess the understanding and Joseph and I had was that we, unless we have directly asked about stuff, wouldn't really tell all. He seemed pretty reserved with his private life. I mean, we are friends, but IT wasn't like questions I knew I should ask him or you know all hay of a girlfriend oh, what you know instead like that I didn't know and not that he couldn't have of a girlfriend, just he didn't really have one here. And no so.

Well, and that night, did he sound excited about big changes in the way?

He was excited. He was really excited. He was happy about IT. Looking forward to IT.

How much did he .

drink that night? He was drinking ips, and we had some shots at break ers, but mostly bear because that's what he stuck to.

Did he hear any shots?

Yeah, hear shots with me and kim, only a couple. And he stuck to bear because he wasn't a big like a drinker.

I'd like you to use a one to ten scale with ten being passed out drug and one being sober, and estimate his level of intoxication by the time you part ways that you mean.

So he was probably of five. I mean, he knows his limits and he wasn't sober because he had ready been doing before I met up with him.

How do you know that .

that he had been drinking? Well, he had ended up taxi between eleven and twelve that night and then night calling them because I did. I started drinking about eleven, and I called him, and I asked what he was doing and he said he was having some beer and then he was good goal person being deemed because he was hungry.

And I, of all, maybe by the time you get done eating and we could meet up somewhere downtown, he said, okay, well, let me get some food and i'll made up with you and I said, waiting for the sitter anyways, so let me know when you're done. That was that. And then I called them when we were going to town, and he said he was at suen suds. I think it's really got food from and he asked if I wanted anything, that if I wanted something, he would bring out that. Now i'm i'm okay.

What time was that .

we've finally met up with partly about between twelve thirty and one isn't. We've finally we're making IT downtown and I one just think IT was around yeah between two hundred thirty and one. I don't know the exact time, won't we met up because we met up at players in Kevin. I got there first sin, we had a drinking and ground to beer. Then we were waiting and then he showed up.

And then where did you last? See him that nighter.

early morning breakers. I think we parted ways at breakers. Clay was feeling pretty drunk.

Did he go back to soap suds at night?

I don't know, and I don't think. I don't know, and I don't think they won't. He ate before, because I believe, kim, I got into a carvin. We had went home. And since he lived right in town, he walked and he usually walked anyways.

But what time do you think you guys, part of ways.

probably a barber's bar closes about harder to three or three Operate, a must come with a quarter to.

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How firm is a memory .

about all that? It's fuzz here and there. But i'd remember being at brokers when remember being there, we are drinking, then going home when I by the time I got home, then I don't remember being at home.

And then what happened the next day on saturday.

I ended up, we I we talked to the morning, but I very remember we talked about and we talked for a while, but I can't remember what we talked about. This is generally, again, whatever. And IT happened to be nice out that day and was testing them.

I'm going to eat something and shower and eat something who we should go to the beach. And so by the time I showered, finally something got other kids ready. It's too nice to be inside too, hung over to be inside two and so he said, okay.

And so I got all the kids ready down to the beach. Then we are waiting for him. Then we at the beach for a couple hours and then I decided, okay, well, we should.

Well, I said we like the kids should go to camp because I wasn't nice out. And I told jose said, if you wanna go to camp, you're welcome to go. You know where it's out he spent a camp before but he said, no, i'm google. Look for fish and I kind of laugh and said, where you find Fishers fish, it's too early and he's like the mass people said they're catching fish and said, okay, he's like, you can go I said, i'm not looking for this. I'm going to camp.

So at that at the end of june, they want any strong salmon runs.

I don't think so. I mean, they could have been tried, but I I didn't think there is fish, but I could have been wrong. People work, teaching some here and there, but nothing like a strong ready because, like I said, the weekend of july four, as we again ago, look, get go, get drive. fish.

He was a big Fisher person, right?

He liked, yeah, he really liked fishing. He.

you never go fishing with him.

We did go fishing once. I think last year we had went out to between solon and whatever s after so I can think east bark lady, between that point we went in, had a picnic.

Do you think that Joseph went out a mile forty four to fish? Seems like a long way to go for a marginal river.

You can find proud and grille y not there. But I don't know. He didn't tell me about fear place.

He said he was going fishing was at the mouse. No member right here. You know, not anything out there. He he didn't say anything. But I mean, you can catch trial and grilling, I think at east Spark and anywhere between east .

fork and okay, so you presume that you walk home that night, but you don't know for sure yeah.

he was a runner, was fine, was walking and I said, okay and he's like, I live right there. He would just point over there because it's actually in town to where is when he lived out of ice vu, it's right there. I live in town. No, not on the cambodia was just cheminor.

okay. Do you know of anyone who saw Joseph for the truck back in on after saturday afternoon?

Not that I know if I mean, jake had just moved in to my grand's house. My cousin, i've never talked to jake about what he saw, what he thought or what had happened that day because Joseph in jake, I don't know if they really talk to, he was just like a cordaro may, you know, type thing. But I I don't know.

I know when I came back from count, I didn't drive over there to see if he was in town or anything, and I didn't text him. So I don't, I don't know. I do know on sunday, because my sister was going to have ny surgery.

We are bringing in her out there and infect to my parents to meet up with my parents because they were, my mom was going with kim, and my mom had mentioned, dad was, I keep forgetting, ask you, how come there's a blue car park at gram's house? Because josep was like one when he was first moving in there. He was like, nobody sga holic ops at me, right? For me being at that house, I said, I don't think so.

I mean, he's like, okay. And so um my dad was going to ask whose blue car that was we drove down that way. But I don't remember if I saw them up, but I know my parents had seen that on sunday because kim was living on the midday late.

What time would they have gone to the airport?

I think I brought him to check in closer to eleven, and I don't know when my parents checked in because they, we, we want separately.

So did your parents fly engage .

my mom and my sister dead because he was gg, i'll have news surgery.

What you did? Dad didn't.

No, I don't think so.

And this was on some yes.

And I had texted Joseph on sunday asking him if he wanna a go A B picnic. And I never got an answer. And I called them once, and I went to voice ell.

And I never heard from him on sunday because he likes winter community things. I am, I always offered him to go places to do things, and he never answered about the A M. P. picnic.

Did they say that they definitely saw Joseph truck at the house on their way to the airport?

I would not ask them. I mean, because I know my mom had mentioned that dad has been wondering whose car is there, cause for a long time there was no cars there and I was just as smoothly things because, I mean, I know mom has said dad was wondering and generally will ask each other questions if we know something and so mom said, dad, who was onder ing, his car was there because his car was always there, because he always walked, because he was in town. Did jack have a car? no.

So he didn't have a vehicle?

No, because I think this was down at the time.

What kind of our when .

before jake moved out of his dose, IT was before the car broke down? I think IT was a Green. I actually have to tell you the brand or what type is a small Green carve.

Do you member just have ever talking about anyone that use any problems with a .

known he never said anything, but I don't think he's the type of person to be, have soon to be mad at him because he would confront if there was an issue, he would ask him about adora. I don't think he was at the prison to have anybody matter him.

What about someone related to his work at the court?

He kept to himself at the court. I mean, he would come up and do his work and talk to us, but he generally kept to himself in his office. I don't think he had any misunderstanding with anybody, but wouldn't be one of those questions of I would asked Joseph he, joe said, as anybody mad at you today or you know, he didn't same thing, so I didn't .

know to ask so you know anything about this whole issue with jake, three only rifle that Kevin had taken over to their house and put down on the storage room after Joseph.

we were talking about IT at grounds one day. I don't I never asked Kevin about IT, but a bony gram had mentioned that Kevin, a brotha gone over the jake's house and I don't know Kevin told anybody or or why burning adjust that that IT was in the grocery room, I think is very sad.

Put IT like storage ery downstairs.

yeah.

Whose right for was IT bali .

was saying that was jake. But I don't know jake ver had any gun and I don't I don't know. I would imagine jake having guns as dad goes hunting. Yeah so I would have yeah .

and you not recalled .

josef ever .

saying anything about fishing in the salmon river around out that far? Forty four?

No, i'm sure he would have an idea about fishing out there because like I said, when we went to that picnic, my dad had went fishing, but he's never, he never said anything. Yeah, i'm going fishing out there. Or was that .

picnic near there?

If there is a straight way that happens out, there are not even our mild is, but you can turn off to the right and then you go, dad, a little bit. And there's this little pit area where we next to the river, where we had a picnic.

This, the area worst truck was between the two bridges.

I don't know. I haven't gone out there since just of his witness. Son, it's hard enough for me to go to camp, so I have bad xiety and and I want to a lot there to see where IT is with.

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to chose the first talk with you about running .

the ridges out. Ke, that wouldn't. We were out on that ride on the picnic. He said he wanted to do the travelled mountain hike.

IT was a real nice hill that you could just run up and went back down. And he said he can. He wanted do that and someday he'll do IT and that this was on the picnic when we're going back in the town. I knew he went hiking, but the only other hike mentioned about what doing was like a four seven three or four three seven hike. But I think that once on the teller er road, I don't .

know the mountain.

It's in that general area. I would have to go out there to show you too. Nowhere except .

so do they search.

I don't know .

anyone tell about that.

I want to say I think kirk mentioned that they were around between, they looked all around the travel mountain and east fork wears car by that mine judge area in that area out there, but just all around the area.

How will be no jack and what you just sort general pressure.

I used a baby, said jake, when he was Younger, and through the years we would always know, have family dinner, but to be like, oh, hang out with you all the time, IT wasn't like that. I was a lot older and had my own thing going on and never really hung out with jake. My did support him when he was playing basketball and doing high school stuff.

I supported him. I would go watch the games here. You do not ask how everything's going. And then he left for school and just really didn't talk to take.

Then he did. He go to U A, A.

yes.

And so how did just go two years? Or I don't .

even have to remember. I know this last year he's gone.

So was he gone like for the whole school year in encode?

I think so because he was looking at creating in one here and then he transferred there so he can go to school so he was going to school and working .

where he was living in enrich.

I think bi said human reni had a place in of their own. But I don't know .

where I was and would this .

past year, within the last year.

but they aren't together anymore.

No.

you know why I don't.

And do you know who Joseph .

would usually hang out in the noon with other than you know yourself.

just I don't even know. I mean, I know he had other friends, but jersey is like a hometown pe person, like he was OK with staying at home. I mean, the job he had, he didn't really want to go out and be out because of the dark he had.

So was an unusual for them to go out drinking like that on friday .

night from time to time Josephson. He went, do IT often, but he would. I know he never went out when he was doing judge work on the weekends.

It's very likely he was killed by a bear, and the searchers found no trace of IT.

I don't think that would be possible. I mean, if he was killed by a bear, where is his stuff? The researcher, from what i've heard, the searchers have found nothing I can run, no backpacker or no close, nothing. So I, if if he was killed by a very with something, has had to show up, right? I mean, theoretically .

that's yeah. And from one of her.

they haven't found anything. nothing.

Is there anything I hadn't asked you about .

the thing might be important? Told everybody everything that I know what i've thought when I was talking to the private together that they hired. He was ago.

What do you think happened to him? And he started saying these things and asking me if that's what could have happened. And I was time I thought if i'm saying yes, that could have happened. And that's me giving up hope for IT.

Anybody finding jesson? He's like, you think you could have been murdered, red kid, but killed by a barrow, other things and I said, I do I don't know because the way I feels that if I say yes to something that it's i'm losing hope, I mean him and so I don't want to give up because I just thinking about IT negatively just I don't think we would be the way to go and never told that. I said, I can't think negative about what may you or could have happened to you.

So because the second I start doing that, and that means i'm giving up and I don't want to and he told, asking why. I said, because I just the way I hope you and I believe is that second I started thinking my mind of everything that could have happened and that means are giving up or starting to lose hope. And I don't, I don't want to. So he could asking me questions about IT, but I was just like, I don't want to lose hope.

If you really want to engage in the conversation here, by all means, go join the up in vance discord. I put a link to the this word in the episode description. Also, if you want to stock me on instagram, its p lenz y and if you're not already, you should definitely follow up and vanish on instagram at up and vanished. See next week.

Up and vanished in the midnight sun is a production of tenderfoot v in association with autism. Your host is pain. The show was written by pain lenzing with additional assistance from mic roni executive producers are Donald Operate, and pain ad producer is micro y, along with producers Dylan harington and skinner, editing by Michael roni and Cooper skinner, with additional editing by Dylan hering ton.

Supervising producer is Tracy cabin, additional production by Victoria kani Alice eric kin by rob sheraton, music by makeup vanity set mixed masters by coop er skinner. Thank you to orn rose bomb and the team at U. T.

I, back media and marketing and the north group. Special thanks to all of the families and community members s that spoke to the team. Additional main resources can be found in our show notes for more podcasts like up and vanished search tender for A T, V on your favorite podcast APP or visitors at tenderfoot dot TV. Thanks for listening.

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