13 | To Risk, We Must
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up and vanished in the midnight sun is released every thursday and brought to you absolutely free, but for a free listening and exclusive bonuses subscribed to tender for plus a tender fit plus dot com or on apple podcasts. Up and vanished in the midnight sun is intended for mature audiences and may include topics that can be upsetting, such as emotional, physical and sexual violence, rape and murder.

The names of survivors have been changed for anonymity purposes. Testimony shared by guest of the show is their own and does not reflect the views of tender, ford, T, V or auto. See.

thank you so much listening.

To love is to risk appearing. The fall web is to rist appearing sentiments to reach out for another is tourist involvement. To expose feelings is to risk expressing our true self.

Place your ideas and your dreams before the crowd is to risk loss. To love is to rist not being loved in return. Clive is to .

rest dying.

The hope is to risk despair. To try at all is to risk failure. But the risk we must, because the greatest hazard in life is to risk nothing. The man, the woman who risk nothing, does nothing, has nothing and is nothing. I'm taking a risk.

Are you willing .

to take a risk to pain?

From tender for A T, V in atlantic, this is up, vanished in the midnight sun. Chapter two, and your host pin lengthy.

The weekend Joseph ET missing has slowly become full of major contradictions. And here's the thing, people do forget things where they simply misremember. But when these discrepancies continue mountain and begin to form a pattern IT beggs. The question is, someone actually line, and if they are, at this point, eight years later, I want a pretty dam good reason why. And so is just his family indirectly, in the middle of all things that didn't make sense was Joseph roommate, jake.

The roommate was interviewed, told the twitter that he was gone on saturday night with friends, but that he saw Joseph the next morning walking down the hallway in the house.

This would have been sunday.

sunday morning after Joseph had stopped responding anyone.

So if that were true to that would have been ignoring people, right, which would be a little out of his character .

and then he was never hurt from again. When you say saw at one thirty, no one else saw him after that. barely. I'm looking at from saturday on as the where he was, what is going?

The state troopers found this .

ship pretty weird.

too. I have the ability, the equipment to help us establish a timely that's if you're willing to let me a bar, your phone, so I could go up right here.

They were suspicious, but did make sense to them, but they offered jake way to clear himself.

The troopers did download the contents of his phone, but they didn't look at the contents of his phone until they went back to engage. And then when they did look at the contents of his phone, they realized that he was texting friends, trying to get friends to create an alibi forum for saturday night.

Why was somebody, if you, doing that?

Obviously, because he was trying to hide something.

If jake soldiers alive and well on sunday afternoon, and why would jake even need to lie about saturday to begin with? If jake was hiding something well, what exactly could have be?

Take original. You told me that you will know for a try. And then I talk your bodies and I said that didn't happen. You told me to chose specifically for rive that way.

And then they told me that that they were with you related happen when confront you with, hey, what is you as we can? I wouldn't say I went for a drive, some place I wasn't. I would either not remember, but I wouldn't I wouldn't say I went for a driver.

I wouldn't come up with something I didn't do. I just, I can I I can understand how somebody would no RAID up until the point that they made at home. You just come out for four hours, you can do something else. I know that man saturday to me that seems like either you're lying now because you're covering is covering up for something that you don't want tell us that for.

or you were lying men .

in a murder investigation. You have to make sense of these kinds of things. I mean, come on, if you light to the cops in a murder investigation, you're making yourself looks suspicious.

The whole issue of jack lying about his wearables and trying to create an alabi. So I mean, jack said that he did that because he was nervous and he couldn't remember what he did that weekend. And when we have a situation where all of this, you know, all of this work that i've done is basically work that should have been done by the troopers. And now they're in a pretty defensive posture about the whole case.

If I worked in the enforcement, which I do not, I could only imagine that if a true crime podcast came poking around my case, IT would be pretty annoying. I'd probably hate me too, but I also imagine that I probably reflect on my own investigation as an officer. I didn't come to know to talk about solved cases.

I came here because the families told me law enforcement wasn't doing anything anymore. All I can do is ask questions and trying to find out myself. But things got off to a pretty rocky start.

Within the first thirty seconds, I stepped into the no pd office. I introduced myself as someone who is trying to help by the request of the victim's families. But the investigator was immediately on the defense, playing silly, like they don't even know what a journalist is.

And when I finally arranged a meeting with this investigator, the dude build, that's just the truth. And if you were me, you probably start to think, hey, I think the family might be right here. Here's an interview from the first time I met selena, truth of sister in his mother, melda.

We had a lot of people coming to us in the beginning, a lot. We didn't want to do anything that people are just going to put a story out there. You actually go, you actually look for answers. So that is only reason why we decided to do this podcast.

I know a lot of people know what happened to him. Everybody scared of law enforcement. They do away with people all the time.

There are so many missing people in. No, I do not think at all that Joseph death was an accident, that he was murdered. Why did they not look into everything that sounds terrible? Sometimes I feel like long first that knows what happened.

Why would they not .

be telling you they don't want .

to step on anybody's ys either? It's very terrible. And I feel back, although my brother is so much for while they are really was hard to live life, he was just constantly in your mind.

And you just feel so guilty that, you know, if something about him and there's nothing we can do, we can't buy him. We've gone to the governor. We've talked to the FBI.

We've gone everywhere. We've talked to representative. We've done so many things and it's always added. And my mom, Christ for my brother every single day.

I do feel like all the answers are there, but we don't know how to find them. We need somebody like you guys to put the pieces together. Sometimes I feel like similar troopers did think that he was murdered. We don't even call anymore .

because there's .

always nothing.

But I was back at noon. I stopped by the alaska ate trooper s. Office, located right downtown on front street. Never buzz the door ball for a few minutes. A trooper finally opened the door for us or journalists from atlanta who from the troopers here, and no one could speak to us about balers case.

I mean, I guess I not sure mean anyone trier cantos to, but I don't know how productive without no mean were. I I don't even I remember IT happening, but I don't I was a paying attention .

because I was strickly involved with investigating .

the .

i'm sure.

Much of equality interview any of us get really.

Is there like .

a particular agent who is in charge of this case? No.

there is no case officer anymore, really. I mean, that kind of depends if the call comes in and someone has information, then IT would usually come either well, depends on who gets IT. I mean, and then we would follow up on the the information that's providing.

So there really isn't an investigator .

here for cases like that. Okay.

interesting.

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In last week episode, you heard an interview with a man named curr. Jake stepped that who claims he saw Joseph truck fly by their camp on sunday afternoon. The story that seems pretty strange, given everything else we know about Joseph and how we stopped responding to people on saturday morning. On that same day, andy also interviewed kirk's wife, bony, who was apparently also there when they saw the truck. Bonny is also jake's mother.

Right in between clamps or and bonny round is the twenty nine of september twenty sixteen, the times now nine nine m and were bono, can you tell me how well you new josep and how you met him?

I met him through my niece, Christine per square. SHE was working at the courthouse and my mom would have a wednesday night dinner where they have a meal, food and SHE ended to bring justice brain Joseph over there. That's where we met him.

Tell me your general .

impressions .

of Joseph. He was a very, very nice guy um very friendly. Um you know all the times that we we would have dinner, my mom or seeing and passed him, he he was always very, very nice.

Do you recall seeing him at any point during the weekend that he disappeared?

The weekend that was a weekend .

of the twenty je twenty.

OK.

晓得。

That had mean the the sunday we were at camp and um I seen his vehicle drive by um we were outside working on the addition at camp and I remember same to kk。 I can we didn't stop.

About what time was that.

that had to be around three or four in the afternoon. probably.

How fast was he going?

I guess that would have .

to be maybe fifty .

or forty to fifty.

Was IT faster than Normal? 是 how .

sure are you .

that I was .

Joseph driving？ I don't know .

if I was. I couldn't tell you if I was Joseph. Er, not. But I know this is this car. I went between the glare in the way anyone think the sun was shining. But with the glare, I couldn't tell IT .

was him or not, was just one person. The car.

I can tell you that either and .

the truck go back.

no. And that that was my thought, was okay. Well, maybe he'll stop by on the way home. So the jack mentioned.

you seen Joseph at the house sunday morning or sunday afternoon.

When I first to us on monday, I got to call from the courthouse and they didn't. They knew that jack and Joseph looked in my mom's house. They had asked me, him, you know, can you call jake and see, maybe when the last time I was turn up to work, it's and not like him to not short. So when I had called jake and asked him, he. Said he had to be around one, and I was just impressing.

Remember anything else? He said.

he and I civil, do remember what he was wearing. He said, no, I mean, we didn't really even talk that much. I mean. The age gap was is know so big that they didn't really hang out in trick to Young kid.

Did stand seem pretty certain that he saw the truck park to the house on sunday morning when he is honest. Way to the airport. yes. So IT wasn't like a maybe.

No, no. I can not surprise me because Joseph had been there for a while, and I guess he just didn't notice, you know, but that truck .

was there, and so his truck is out. Do you know if anyone else who saw josef on sunday?

I don't know that anybody .

or some do you know .

anybody who might have seen him on saturday night .

other than Christine in that afternoon when they were at the beach? I don't know that they I don't know who.

What one of things is, oh, is that Megan head called him and left messages and text. Christina called him a number time and left messages and text. And if he came back to know, he would be very unlike him to not return any those .

right when he came down a camp saturday. But he had mention that SHE encode josef because they they SHE called him back after the hana speech, telling, hey, you know, we're going to cambria having a big dinner about you when you come down. And that's when he said that he SHE left at him a message because he didn't answer .

about come stopping by the king. Was jake out of that dinner?

no.

Any idea what he was doing on sunday night?

I don't know any .

a when he got home saturday?

Note no.

you think is possible that someone did something to Joseph versus .

a bear getting him I think with a bear um you know listening to a lot of the elders talk, I think with a bear um they're not going to eat clothing or shoes or backpacks. He I know when he was running, he'd always had his backpack on him. I mean, even in town I D him runback pack.

I think there would have been some something come out of him. I've heard of people standing on, you know, a buried animal or something. I'm not even knowing yeah not realizing IT. I've never seen you know anything yeah it's just .

hard to imagine nobody finding anything. He was just and .

and that was one of things that we know were flying around down there. We would do grids up and down the whole area. And that's what that's what I was looking for, for a new bear dig or know the ground was obviously get right and not seem really much of anything.

Had you have you heard any rumors about what might have happened to him?

There are um there were rumors um especially after um absolutely nothing you know no evidence, no nothing was found. There were a lot of rumors that both my mom and I had heard was that because jake was his roommate, there is no evidence a lot of rumors where that jake did something to him.

And that's one of the things that you, we don't want to contribute .

to that I know right. I mean, these rumors, as far as they got into drugs, we ve seen even at a drug houses having his girlfriend and josef found out and he question him about IT get into IT whatever, and taking to doing something.

I mean, that's health. Basic people make up. And just so doesn't sound like he talked much about his relationship, the mag, and looks with you.

not with me. I know Christine had known about, but I I didn't know anything about that.

I talk about Christine today. She's still very yeah yes.

he is he is SHE I mean it's it's funny but not only he gets since ighly very easily and you know when he had talked to the tribes, you know back when this is going on um and then the A B I guy came up and talking him also SHE SHE had a tough time talking about IT.

And the problem is that jake probably has the most relevant and important information of anybody, and even little details that he may not recognize. The significant could fit with other facts that we know about and help and are resolved ving this mystery, do you have any sense of why he he doesn't want to speak with us?

I think with jake, even with talking to me, you know talking about know what did those have say what was he wearing to know what time you know, trying to pull details out from him um I think you we've get really irritated .

um that a lot of .

people are asking him and and he finally just told me was bridget roommates? We just lived in the same house period in and we didn't even talk, barely even said hi to each other.

I tried to call j eleven times this afternoon in the evening, and each time the call failed because he wasn't accepting calls and and the first investigator that came out here were doing the surge and tried to interview jack a number of times. And he said that jack would agree to speak with them and then not show up or not return the call, and even ran into him in a barn he said he would talk with and then know didn't.

He he's still kid. He's still learning how to be a grown up.

The private investigator, andy glazer, had a melting list of red flags after seemingly every interview he did. And at this point in time, the biggest question mark was jose's roommate, jake, the lying, the trying to create alibis, the disappearing and reappearing rifle that was inside his apartment. Andy also called this dude eleven times, no answer.

He continues to say that he observed Joseph coming out of his bedroom about one thirty pm. On sunday and leaving the house. He claims that he never, never saw any guns at the house there the Joseph might have had, which struck me as Frankly, that didn't bring true to me because Joseph couldn't even launch the daughter is room, you know, he had to keep the door close with a bundy cord.

IT had bought that tourist pistol and march. And I just think it's highly unlikely that jay staying in a bedroom right next day, he wasn't aware of that, never thought. I feel pretty strongly that the most likely explanation for jose's disappearance is that someone has done something to him. So I I called jack a bunch of times, like eleven times. I think the first day I was there and he always had his phone set to not accept calls.

Immensely frustrating for the family, considering jake is the last person to a scene, Joseph alive, if he's actually telling the truth about that one, his room literally just vanished and he didn't even seem interested in knowing why or how he wanted nothing to do with that at all. But eventually andy just stopped taking no for an answer. He had limited time and name, and he was going to live there without trying to talk to jack. So he went to his house. This is the tape from his surprise visit.

No problem.

So when the right of that dropped off, fier was IT in the case or outside of a case? Okay.

okay.

My uncle bar for bear hunting.

Did you get anything? 不在。 yeah.

your. My friend, how to you .

don't do .

my shooting or hunting now? When did they .

moult the .

scope on IT?

Oh, really. So when he won the right fall, that came with the scoping, that's pretty nice.

nice.

Tends to bed that your uncle didn't just tell you he was drop at IT off.

So would you mind cycling one of these through the rifle and then letting me keep IT?

winter. I mean, could you just .

do a right now, just cycle one through because he just just loaded IT and put on in the chAmber and ejected.

Yeah, you the look here.

That's you. You on any handguns? no.

Because you didn't have a forty four, right? I don't know why one was missing out of IT. That's kind of weird bit. Which room was jose's in here? On the right bedrooms on the first floor.

this, the was in, and my eyes was found .

like a pantry.

I heard about that and he was IT.

I should. Does anybody staying in there now? Did he leave any new stuff here when they take everything.

everything?

Mabe, you'll take a few pictures, were quite on and large, the bunch cord. And then which room measures .

what the ship right here?

Okay, so was right.

basically right next door. yeah. And the door is open. I saw him here.

So when you said he would have been headed out, yes.

All right, i'm not a year.

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Ils, are you .

still .

looking .

for .

us on, put IT on the spot. Tric full .

diet for weeks.

Just buy IT already. You're right. Cross over this decisions, decide whether you know exactly what you want or like to take your time by your car. Convenient way. Va.

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The tremendous efforts of josey's family, friends and the private investigators they hired, what I believe will ultimately solve this case. Looking back eight years to right now, we have an unreal vantage point. They gave us hundreds and hundreds of documents. And I told to the first time I met her how hugely important this was. Be an incredible up like serious ly is the most information i've ever had .

for A I do feel like all the answers are there, but we don't know how to find them. We need somebody like you guys, the pieces together.

His family was confident there was foul play here.

All that a lot of people know because we've heard so many rumors. A lot of rumors aren't true. One of those rumors this, right?

So it's really hard to take all this information, tell whole world. No more secrets in anymore. So you going to start turning on each other, the police going to start doing their job, or going going to find out that somebody has been lying or is corrupt.

I've known jake since we were kids. He was a good kid. He loves swimming.

He did well in school and even went to college. But things changed. He quit school. He got into drugs and started hanging out with a different crowd. IT was tough to see him go .

down that path.

Shortly after Joseph disappeared, something really strange happened. Jack's mom and stepped down, got involved in a deep briefing of the case. I thought a debrief in was only for immediate family. IT didn't make sense to me. The thing is, I know jake very well, jack's part of a tightened group .

of friends.

They've been together forever. And I can tell you that after Joseph went missing, jack started acting weird. Drugs, heroin, this time, the people I know don't want to talk about this.

They don't want anything to do with that. At a party one night that summer, someone called jake the killer. He snapped, once I go, it's like people can only keep something like that inside for so long before IT starts .

to eat a way at them.

I can promise you, my source is very close to jack, very close. They told me that jake admitted to doing something to Joseph, and he said, IT.

clearly.

it's been a very long time now. Can jake still trust all of his friends? What do you think in.

Thanks for listening for every content just described, the tinner foot plus on apple podcast. And if you want to follow me on instagram, it's at pain lenzing and up vanished is at up advanced not that hard different that I got lucky with those anal. Thanks for listening. I'll see next week.

Up and vanished in the midnight sun is a production of tender for D, T, V. In association with auto sy. Your host is pain lencs. The show is written by pain lencs with additional assistance from mike rony. Executive producers are Donald Operate and pain lencs.

Lead producer is micro I, along with producers dylon harington and Cooper skinner, editing by micron I and Cooper skinner, with additional editing by Dylan harington. Supervising producer is Tracy caplin. Additional production by Victoria kani, Alice glen and eric kinda art work by rob sheraton.

Original music by makeup and vanity set mixit masters by couper skinner thank you to orn rosen bomb and the team at uta back media and marketing and the north group. Special thanks to all of the families and community members that spoke to the team. Additional information and resources can be found in our show notes for more podcasts like up and vanished search tender for A T, V on your favorite podcast APP or visitors at tenderfoot dot TV. Thanks for listening.

E, R, for pet. All right, my, we're here. I not believe you swell .

your whole toy.

Get you to. I wait.

You stay with your bed.

Hi, i'm doctor's turk. Hey milo. I'm going to set on the form with him so he can be more comfortable for the exam.

I wasn't sure how serious IT .

was looking at the expanse. He's going to need surgery. But the good news, he should be OK.

We're lucky. There's a venge.

My V E R for pith opens twenty four, seven.

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