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WBUR Podcasts, Boston. Heads up, if you didn't already know by now, this show contains descriptions of violence and strong language. Previously on Beyond All Repair. As long as they think I have done this, then they're not looking for who actually did this. Sophia, own agenda, my brother. He would do anything to save his own skin, so I definitely don't trust his testimony at all. Was there any...
Physical evidence connecting Sophia to the crime scene the way that there was the drop of blood on Sean's boot? Physical evidence, no. Be careful. You're digging deep.
In a place that's been very peaceful for a while. Do it anyway. Dig. There is no connection between Marlene Johnson and Sean Correa. The only connection is Sophia Johnson. I can't root for people in this story, but I can root for the truth. And if the people are aligned with the truth, then I'm rooting for the people, you know? I agree with that. All I've wanted is to know what fucking happened. And this makes me feel like I know what happened.
Hi. Good, how are you? Here to see Shane Correa. Your name? Amory. A-M-O-R-Y. It's autumn of 2023. I'm in the lobby of Shane's New York City apartment building. Audio kit in hand, backpack on my back. And in that backpack is a copy of a report. The report. In which Sophia confessed to a detective eight years after her mother-in-law's murder that the whole thing was her idea.
Playing on loop in my head as I prepared for this visit was a conversation Shane had sent me between him and his sister. I'm doing. Days before I'd gotten the report, he'd called Sophia to say that after 20 years of not knowing what or whom to believe about the murder she was accused of,
He believed her. It doesn't make sense that five foot four, six month pregnant, you could beat a woman so violently to death that the handles from the tongue separate and that the teeth fly from the mouth of the victim. It just, it doesn't, it doesn't equate. And so... I didn't know that. Yeah. That really bothers me to hear that. Yeah. Check, check, check, check, check.
What would it be like for Shane to hear what I had to tell him? I was an elevator ride away from finding out. Tango, Shane Shiba Inu, can smell my nerves, I just know it. I haven't seen Shane in almost a year, but it doesn't feel like it.
He'd sent me dozens, hundreds of hours of voice memos since then as he read and thought through Sophia's case file. So, Ann Marie, I don't know how much of this is going to be relevant to your podcast. All right, take two. I've been thinking about this. You've received so many ranges of me, um...
I'd hinted at some new information I had to share with Shane before coming this time, but kept it vague. I mean, you let me know if the lounge is actually a comfortable or a practical space. Well, we should try it. Yeah. I pulled a copy of the report out of my backpack and braced myself to brace Shane. This was hard for me to read, and... Oh, God. Oh, God.
I'm Anne-Marie Seifertsen from WBUR and ZSP Media. This is Beyond All Repair. Chapter 10, Truth. I just was not expecting it. Am I going to need a Xanax? No, I'm just kidding. I don't know, Shane. I actually started the morning with one, so. Oh my gosh. A little levity before Shane and I really dug in. And a little background on how this report even came to be.
I mentioned last time that the detective who'd interviewed Sophia in 2010 and written this report, Kevin Harper, had gone down to California to do so. Sophia was in custody there for trying to cross the border illegally the year before. Detective Harper made that trip because he'd heard Sophia had more to tell him about Marlene Johnson's murder. And he learned that from someone who'd come to see him. Here's Shane reading from the first few paragraphs of the report.
Morgan, Sophia's former cellmate in Clark County Jail, where she knew him as Tina, now turned romantic partner. Morgan said he couldn't believe it when Sophia told him because all these years she had insisted that she was innocent. Before Sophia confessed her involvement in Marlene's murder to Detective Harper,
She'd confessed to Morgan, Shane read. She told him that she was telling Morgan because Morgan had shown her unconditional love and that she had never experienced unconditional love before. Yeah, that's definitely fucking true. And that she wanted to do the right thing. Sophia and Morgan had told me something about this. We'll get there. But first...
But for now, just know what I'd heard was not at all like what I read in the report. Like what I was now witnessing Shane read for the first time right in front of me. Sophia said she told Sean that Marlene had hidden money in the house and that they both started searching for the money. Sophia said that as casually as I'm talking to you, she said to Sean, maybe we should just kill her. Sophia asked Sean if Marlene was still alive. Sean answered, I don't think so. She said that she knew he was going to kill Marlene because I knew what I asked him to do.
Shane read all 26 pages of the report, practically straight through. And at such a lightning pace, he barely made space to breathe, even when he moved on from what Detective Harper wrote to the part Sophia had written herself. I fully understand all of the consequences that may occur. However, to free my soul and enable me to live in peace with God and throughout eternity, I'm willing and able to accept the outcome. I have no monetary interest and no alternative motive other than to do the right thing and turn.
allowing others the knowledge they need and the freedom of peace as well. When all was said and read... The written statement completed by Sophia was placed into property and evidence. Oy...
Shana told Sophia at this point that he doesn't think she committed the physical murder. But in that oi, perhaps, was the fact that he still wasn't sure if his sister had told him the whole story about the day Marlene was killed. You know, I still can't figure out if she was there or not or like, you know, that morning of.
And to make things more complicated, Sophia's story for Detective Harper was so unnervingly detailed. You know, here's the thing about lies. The really good ones are based on some elements of truth. And, like, you sync enough of them up and you might get something that actually makes sense. So, yeah, just that's where my head's at. That's where my head was at, too. As in, kind of all over the place.
But Shane, like usual, was trying to make order out of the chaos. Feels a lot easier if you just accept Sophia's not credible. Yeah. Like she's, she's, and you want to, you need her to be credible now. I get it. For you as a person who's listened to her and all of these things. I get it. You can't trust her. But a liar doesn't make a killer.
blood on the person and the ability to actually commit the violent act and the history of violence probably implies more of the killer. But I guess I don't think a killer is just a physical killer. Of course, of course not. And so like, yes, it doesn't make a killer, but... Could she be the devious manipulative psychopath that does this in order to manipulate situations? And even if it means the death of the only person that was kind of her friend back in the day, I get it.
I don't want to read another lie from Sophia. And I don't want to know that there's another version of the story out there somewhere. And I don't want to have to find out about these things because I'm requesting reports that might never be found. But can we, let's explore that. Because first, I don't want to. I want to because this messes with my head, Shane. Girl, trust me, I've been at that table. I've been in this room trying, like for the past months, going through the same feelings of...
It feels terrible, one, to support a liar, two, to support a liar who's capable of murder. But Shane also clocked something during his speed read of the report that made him doubt Sophia's confession to Detective Harper. Something that maybe only someone who knows the two suspects like a brother would pick up on. But given the opportunity to say she saw Sean do it, as he had said about her on the stand years before...
Sophia doesn't take it. If she's the mastermind, why not just pit it fully on Sean? If she's truly that psychopathic and can kill an old woman and think it through, you're telling me she's cool with saving Sean in that instance? That doesn't make sense to me, you know? So that's why it doesn't shake me. Shaken or not.
The report did leave Shane with a big question. Yeah, what happened after this? So she admits essentially to murder. Now, legally, she has already been tried for the murder and acquitted. So is that why nothing happened? Like, how is she on the run right now as opposed to in that jail for 43 years? This is precisely what I wanted to ask the detective who wrote the report after I read it for the first time. Is it long and boring?
No, no. You sure? Former detective Kevin Harper, who didn't remember Sophia saying anything new about Marlene's murder in their interview. But now, I'd sent him a copy of his report, he'd read it over, and called me back. What did you make of it? Well, I was surprised I had forgotten so much detail that's in my report. Me too, Kevin. Me too.
including the fact that the report ends with him referring Sophia's confession to the Clark County Prosecutor's Office, saying, basically, you may want to take another look at Marlene Johnson's homicide, a referral that went nowhere. I don't spend a lot of time dwelling on it. I don't spend a lot of time...
kicking my feet in anger and saying, well, those dumb guys, they should have done this anyway. It's like, okay, I get it. They made a decision. But upon revisiting the actual report with me, Harper was reminded why things played out the way they did back in 2010. Life isn't fair. I'll initiate by that. Strong start. So then we get down to her confession, which if you read through it carefully, is not actually a confession other than
You could maybe say a conspiracy, which the statute of limitations has long gone past for. She did not witness in her statement. She did not witness Sean doing anything. She did not participate in the murder. So she still is not admitting anything culpable. There's that point Shane made.
Kevin told me that because Sophia doesn't say she witnessed Sean killing Marlene, there wasn't much the prosecutor's office felt they could do with her so-called confession. And even if they tried to act on it, they'd be relying on the word of a woman who, A, might just be trying to get back at her brother for implicating her in the murder initially, and B, had just admitted to a detective to having lied on the stand before. Well, you lied in this trial. What else are you lying about?
And yet, despite Sophia's lack of credibility, Detective Harper told me, he thinks the version of events Sophia laid out in her confession, specifically around Sean's role in Marlene's death, is a lot closer to the truth of what actually happened than the version Sean gave on the stand. The story that Sean was the one who did the beating certainly made more sense to me. He had blood spatter on him.
We had him, I thought, dead to rice. Slam dunk case from the beginning. And the tactical decision by a different detective to instead go after Sophia was a poor choice. But I wasn't part of that decision. A tactical decision by a different detective named... Rick Buckner. Hi, Rick. It's Anne-Marie.
How are you? Hello there. I am fantastic. How are you? Rick Buckner, I gotta say, has been refreshingly open with me about the Sophia Johnson case and about his thinking around Sean in particular, which has maybe evolved in the two years between our first conversation in 2021. He had no reason to kill Marlene as viciously as she was killed.
killed. To our last conversation in late 2023. You know, his story about, well, I went downstairs and I was surprised to see somebody with a mask on, you know, bludgeoning this woman. And I freaked out. Bullshit. I mean, that's the dumbest story you've ever heard. But that dumb story, excuse me, dumbest story is the one the prosecution ran with.
When there's more than one suspect, and you need the testimony of one to get a conviction against another, you've got to figure out where to place your bets. We needed Sean's cooperation to get to Sophia. Sean had no motive to kill Marlene Johnson, seemingly. But he had her blood on his boot. Sophia had no physical evidence putting her at the scene of the crime, but she seemed to have more of a motive, detectives thought. And she had Sean putting her there.
And so, the prosecution chose to go after Sophia and cooperate Sean. Offer him that sweet single year in jail. Allow him to swear to 12 jurors that his dumb story was the whole truth and nothing but the truth. But 20-plus years later, the now-retired Detective Rick Buckner told me... I mean, if anything, we had a better case against Sean.
I sent Rick the report of Kevin Harper's 2010 interview with Sophia, and it did get him thinking about the lack of accountability in a case that could have gone very differently, and maybe still can. I would hope that somebody would look at it and take a hard look at it and go, maybe we should reopen this case. Maybe we should do something about it. To have Sean get away with murder like that, it's ridiculous. I guess from here, I'm just trying to figure out
Where does this go? Like, what I'm hoping is that someone from the prosecutor's office today to tell me why. They can't do it. Why they can't, why they won't. Just what is the future of this? Can this go anywhere? I think it should be looked at again. Sean's responsible for the murder. You know, will they do it?
I've put this question to the Clark County Washington Prosecutor's Office many times. Will they ever look at the Marlene Johnson homicide case again? What will it take? They've never answered me. It's like, it's over? This is it? Nothing? Remember Roylene, Marlene's sister? She wanted to see the investigation and legal process continue after Sophia's acquittal in 2005. This is not fair.
Someone got away free with murdering someone. I mean, if it was your sister, you would have the feelings I have. Someone swung that and killed her. That person should be made accountable for it. Would you want to see murder charges brought against Sean now? Yeah. Somebody should be in jail for murdering my sister. That's all there is to it. That's been on my mind for 20 years.
But the other people who loved Marlene haven't always shared the ongoing pursuit for criminal justice. Back then, or more recently. It's a waste of time. It's a waste of time, at least as far as I'm concerned. The late Richard Johnson, Marlene's widower. They got it right the first time. I don't know why other people can't understand that. They got it right. They convicted her on the evidence that was presented at trial. Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
Sophia told me in our very first conversation nearly three years ago that she wants justice for Marlene. But after reading Detective Harper's report, I started to wonder if Richard had been right about her all along. There is nothing that comes out of the mouth of Sophia that you can believe. I needed to talk to Sophia. I did get this report, finally. And so...
I wanted to share what was in it. Oh, good. Okay. More in a minute. It's Madeline Barron from In the Dark. I spent the past four years investigating a crime. When you're driving down this road, I plan on killing somebody. A robber.
A four-year investigation, hundreds of interviews, thousands of documents, all in an effort to see what the U.S. military has kept from the public for years. Did you think that a war crime had been committed? I don't have any opinion on that. Season three of In the Dark is available now, wherever you get your podcasts.
Real quick before we get back to the show, I know you listen to Beyond All Repair, but do you follow the show? Are you following the show in your podcast app or subscribe to it or whatever the terminology is in your app of choice? I don't want you missing any new episodes as they come out or having them served up to you out of order. And I don't want you losing your place in an episode if you need to pause it part of the way through. So do me another favor, will you? Look for the little follow button or a plus sign button in your app and
Follow the show officially wherever you listen. And thank you. Do you want me to start recording? Oh, yes. See, you're good at that. Okay, so I'm going to start now. It's a Monday morning. Why did I schedule a confrontation about a confession for a Monday morning? I feel heavy and jumpy at the same time, knowing that this call won't be like any of the others Sophia and I have had previously. And depending upon how it goes...
Would we ever talk again after this? So I eased in. Your internet seems good, wherever you are. Yes, I will say the internet has been better. Wherever she is, I say, because months before I started sharing any of this with you, Sophia and Morgan went from being in hiding to more or less on the run. I don't know where Sophia and Morgan are. I never know when they'll have Wi-Fi or cell service or
But on this day, the internet gods wanted this conversation to happen. But where to begin? I'd given this a lot of thought. I decided I would tell Sophia I had a new theory of the case, but I wouldn't tell her where it came from. So the theory is that on the day of the murder, Susie does drive you and Sean over to
the Johnsons' house, so that you can get, supposedly get your jacket that has the money in the coat pocket. I explained that according to this theory, the jacket story was made up, just a way to get Sean over to her in-law's house with her. That she and Sean end up looking around the house together for Marlene's stash of cash, but they can't find it. So after a while, you suggest to Sean, why don't we kill Marlene?
I'm trying to balance looking at the notes I'd prepared to steady myself and studying Sophia's face for any kind of subtle reactions to what I was saying. But she stays calm and mm-hmms as she takes it all in, as if I'm telling a story about someone else telling her brother to make sure her mother-in-law's death isn't too painful. And then he drives Marlene's van to Albertson's, where it was found, and he takes the bus home.
And that's the theory. That's a little different. Whose theory is this? I've actually never heard this version of it before from anyone. According to Kevin Harper's report, this is the version of events that you tell him. That I tell him? Yes. Absolutely not. I had played this out in my head. I knew flat out denial was a possibility. I was ready for it.
I just wasn't ready for it. But Sophia wasn't either. Because, as I reminded her, she and Detective Kevin Harper aren't the only people involved in this confession. So this report actually starts with Morgan coming to see him. And as she'd hear, Morgan's account for Detective Harper was almost verbatim what I'd just read for her.
Morgan said Sophia told him that she asked Sean if he wanted to kill Marlene. Sophia told Morgan that she never saw Marlene as Sean was doing this because she had exited through the sliding glass door and waited outside. Morgan said Sophia told him that she was guilty of the murder and that she had been manipulating people her whole life. So what, how did this come to be?
First thing is, yes, I did say those things to Morgan when he visited me in 2010. And I said it to him because I was so tired, Emery, and there didn't seem to be a life for Morgan and I that was safe. At the time Sophia gave this confession, she'd been in federal custody for about a year after attempting to enter the U.S. at the Calexico border in 2009.
The three years since being deported had been destitute and dangerous, she told me. She'd been hopping precariously between Guyana, Trinidad and Tobago, and eventually Mexico, trying to find work and a sense of stability. Morgan was helping support her and would visit as often and for as long as he could.
But this was not a future for either of them. Sophia didn't feel safe given Sean's proximity and growing prominence in Guyana. And Sophia and Morgan didn't feel safe living as a couple in that region, given that Morgan was still living as Tina at the time. Now Sophia was back in the U.S., but not for long, she worried. Being deported back to Guyana, that would be a death sentence for me.
Morgan was willing to keep fighting for her, to look for lawyers who could potentially help her get asylum and stay in the country legally. But Sophia saw a different way forward. She would use Morgan to give the authorities what they'd wanted all along. And it killed me to do so, because he does have that kind of a sense of right and wrong. He's got a strong, he's a strong moral character.
And so if he believed that I was evil, that'd be the only way, because he wouldn't lie. So I mentioned earlier that long before I got Detective Harper's report, Sophia and Morgan had told me something about talking to him in 2010. This is the version they gave me. It was late summer. Morgan comes to see me. It was a weekend visit. Morgan had driven some 600 miles to visit Sophia in custody in California.
There they were, catching up in the prison yard. We're walking along the fence and... And I tell him that he needs to go to Clark County and tell them I did it. And I said... He said, you did it? I said, yeah, I did it. And she said, will you go tell Clark County I did it? I said, Morgan, I lied to you. I'm guilty. Go and tell them I did it. Tell them where I'm at and tell them to come see me.
Tell them I'm ready to talk. I'm guilty. I did it. Never did Morgan, the only person whose belief in Sophia's innocence up to this point had been unwavering, never did he think he would hear her say those words. But that's all, she said. No details, Morgan told me initially. That was the extent of the information I had when I left there. Because I didn't ask him, I was like, I gotta get out of here. I can't even breathe right now.
Morgan couldn't imagine why Sophia would say something this seismic if it wasn't true. But it wasn't, Sophia told me. Her confession was allegedly a strategy, an attempt to try to get back to the most stable place she could think of. Really, the most stable place she'd been in her whole life, she says. Great job, great roommate, I'm in classes that I love, I have a life. Prison.
Sophia says she wanted to go back to prison in Washington state. Double jeopardy be damned, she'd see if she could get herself a conviction for being an accomplice to the murder or for lying on the stand. Sophia just needed a convincing messenger to take this confession to the authorities in Clark County. And in order for Morgan to be convincing, Sophia would have to convince him first that, yes, she really was guilty.
And so we're back to Sophia in the present day, trying to explain to me how Morgan was able to give the very different, very detailed account of her confession that I'd read in the report. I had to try to tell him enough of what he would have heard over the years about the case and then the details you gave me. I had to give him because he was asking me those types of questions. I'm not saying that all things can't be true.
Now that is true. I followed up with the Clark County Records Office to see if they had recordings or transcripts of these interviews.
But it turns out those materials, per protocol they say, had just recently been destroyed. So we're left with just the report itself, which somehow survived.
And with Sophia, whose first reaction to the version of events laid out in the report was... I've actually never heard this version of it before from anyone. But then, several minutes later... Yes, I did say those things to Morgan. And then several more minutes later, a combination of the two. I had never heard that before. I put that together because I believed that Sean was there. ♪♪
Sophia's voice memo had accidentally stopped recording at this point. Hence the change in audio quality to accompany the change in tune. The whole report, which is like 28 pages long. Mm-hmm.
and includes a handwritten confession from you, spelling out... Yes. Spelling out that theory of the case, confessing to having been the one whose idea it was to kill Marlene. I don't remember that. Who did I write that to? The report includes two statements from Sophia, actually. One typed and signed for Morgan to bring to Clark County...
and a four-page handwritten confession in Sophia's signature cursive, prepared in front of Detective Kevin Harper, which she says she doesn't remember writing, but can imagine why she would have. And I would have written it out in the way I think it needed to be written out for me to get to go to prison. The thing is, I can believe that Sophia wanted to go back to the security and stability of prison. I can believe that she feared for her life being near Sean in Guyana.
Hell, I can even believe that Sophia didn't physically murder her mother-in-law. But was Sophia involved? To any extent? Is it possible she tipped Sean off to her mother-in-law's stash of cash and told him how to get to Marlene's house without going with him?
Or could Sophia have roped Sean into a burglary at her in-law's place? He panicked when Marlene came home and ended up roping her into being present for an impulsive murder carried out by someone with numerous allegations and a documented history of violence. Or, as the confession lays out, did she suggest or even request that Sean kill Marlene?
And if so, is it possible that she really has been telling the truth every time she's said this? I never would say that I killed her. I will never say I killed Marlene because I didn't. If I did Marlene's murder, they wouldn't have to worry about finding me. I would turn myself in. And when Sophia says she doesn't know the details of the crime scene...
Is it because she really didn't see Marlene die? I didn't know that her teeth came out of her mouth. Yeah. That really bothers me to hear that. Is it possible that in giving a so-called false confession with the hope of being sent back to prison... I was trying to put the best story together. Sophia actually gave a real one. I put all of this to her. I have to say, when I first read through this whole statement... Mm-hmm.
Yeah, that's fair.
That's fair.
I pointed to specific examples for Sophia, like how Detective Harper wrote that she said part of her was expecting Marlene to answer the call she was making to her to cover her tracks and to still show up for their lunch date, quote, even though it was crazy to think that way. And that, I will say, was also really hard to read because it made me wonder if I'm taking this at its word, if you...
really have just become good at convincing yourself that it didn't go down this way. Because how could I actually have suggested something like that? How could Sean have carried it out when I did? I get what you're saying. Some of those things ring true to me. Like, I really was frustrated with her that she comes in my house, but not because I killed her or I had anything to do with it.
I don't know why I mixed that in there. Probably because that part of it was true. But I'm not confused whether or not I was at the Johnson's house with Sean or Susie. That never happened. I'm not confused as to whether or not I asked Sean to kill Marlene. That was never a conversation. No matter what troubling detail I presented Sophia with from her narrative for Harper, her bottom line was this.
It was all in service of constructing the most believable story, which either makes the confession feel less true now, or it makes Sophia seem more capable of deception, less credible overall. Yes, I lied to Kevin Harper. Yes, I lied to Morgan. Yes, I know exactly why I did it, because I needed to be safe. And yes, I went about doing it the stupidest way possible. But when you feel like you have no options...
and that the only way to stay in this country is to be in prison, and that's safer, and you're at your bottom, then it's what you do. It's what I did. I know. And yet, there are lines Sophia told me she would not cross. Even in this confession, she wouldn't say that she saw Sean kill Marlene.
Just that she saw him right before and right after Marlene died, leaving the details of the actual murder to the imagination. I cannot in any good conscience say I saw somebody do something I didn't. Which, as Detective Harper said, is part of why the Clark County Prosecutor's Office at the time didn't feel like they had enough to work with in Sophia's confession to reopen Marlene Johnson's homicide case and bring charges against Sean.
And it didn't result in any new charges being brought against her, either. So her strategy didn't work. There was one final portion of Detective Harper's report that I needed to ask Sophia about. Something that, when I first read it, seemed like straight-up stomping on the box she's hoped more than anything this series might be able to open. It says Sophia said she wanted to know how her son Ethan was doing. That she wanted her son to know...
that she set things right, and that she needed her son to be free of all of this. I feel like from the beginning, you've been really clear with me about wanting to tell Ethan the truth about what he'd heard about his whole life. You're saying the same thing here. But if this confession, that killing Marlene was your idea, if this is a lie, then you're lying to Ethan by making this confession. I'd like to explain that.
So, yes, that was. But I was protecting him differently. I could not and would not let him have anything to do with my family. There is no planet that I wanted him going to Guyana, that I wanted him reaching out to George or even my mother. Family was too broken. There was nothing good for him. So if I couldn't be out there to protect him,
then they couldn't tap him either. So if it means falling on the sword to protect him, I'll do it still. Sophia, the other thing here is that this podcast may honestly be the only thing you ever get to say to Ethan. If what Shane has said is true and this ends up being your only chance to talk to Ethan, I just want you to feel really comfortable
sure that you're telling him everything you possibly can and that this is the version, not the Kevin Harper version that you say, this is me doing the right thing. This is me telling my son everything he needs to know. But this version is the final version you want to tell. I don't have any reason to lie to you. I freely admit my mistakes in my life, the ones that I have made for sure. And I know there are many.
Coming up, a verdict of my own. Okay, it's time for me to confess something. The day I confronted Sophia about her 2010 confession to Detective Kevin Harper...
I woke up that morning telling myself, "Today is the day I get the truth." The wordle that day, for those who wordle, was, I kid you not, truth. Now, I was leaving the studio mad or sad or something, but I couldn't tell if it was because I hadn't gotten the truth or because, in a way, I had, and it just didn't feel good.
But the answer to that did eventually come into full, undeniable focus for me. So yeah, this is where I tell you where I land on all of this. Was I right that this story is a house that has many rooms and many boxes? Hell yeah. Which is not where I started. A little nervous, I won't lie. Yeah, well, we're embarking on something new.
In the beginning, I felt like I really might be hearing the story of one of the unluckiest, most misunderstood people I'd ever talked to. Keywords, might be. I knew I had a lot of work ahead of me if I chose to dig in. But I was also operating from the place I usually operate from. As a person who thinks hearing other people out is the only shot we have at preserving whatever amount of compassion and capacity for empathy is left in humanity.
Trust, but verify starts with trust. I did. It helped that Sophia did too. She mailed me what was then the only existing copy of her trial footage, not knowing if she'd ever get it back. She did. Her memory of names and details got me to certain people and information faster than I ever would have been able to on my own. I wanted to try to get a hold of someone that can tell the story in its entirety without any bias.
And her objective seemed straightforward, to tell her story in hopes that it would lead to justice for Marlene and for herself. The only thing I can do because I'm at my bottom is stand up for myself because I have zero expectations that anyone else can do it for me. And so I listened as she told me vulnerable, sometimes unflattering things.
tried to stay composed as she recounted painful memories from childhood of having her newborn son taken out of her arms not knowing when or if she'd ever see him again of hearing horrible things said about or to her for decades
I also heard some of those horrible things myself from people who knew her around the time of the murder. She was just a bitch. I don't think you should marry her. She had a really short temper. No sentence would be strong enough for Sophia. Who is Sophia? In the countless hours I've spent talking to her, she's demonstrated herself to be someone who loves fiercely and protectively.
She's been self-deprecating in humorous and earnest ways, shown care for the small group of people she has in her life — Morgan, Sean's first wife Cynthia, and Shane — with frequent check-ins and phone calls and a patient ear. And Sophia's expressed empathy for the Johnsons, and for anyone who loved Marlene and still believes that she's the one who took her away from them. I don't doubt that Sophia was a different person when she was 23 than she is today at 45.
But I also want to acknowledge that, based on what I've heard across interviews and voicemails and recorded calls within the Coria family, Sophia grew up in a house of aggression and lies and lying about lies. She grew up being called names and having her father take Sean's word over hers. She grew up raising and trying to protect Shane, which means she likely didn't get to fully grow up. How did Sophia end up not being believed?
The answer, I think, is that she never really was, which makes me want to throw up at what I'm about to say next. I don't believe what Sophia has told me about the day of the murder, not fully. I don't think she physically killed her mother-in-law, but I do think she was involved.
Last episode, I played for you parts of the wiretapped call between Sophia and Sean that took place three days after Marlene's murder and convinced detectives of Sophia's involvement. Near the beginning of this series, I played very different parts for you, ones that capture moments of seemingly genuine confusion and concern on Sophia's part.
This call has been like a Rorschach test for me, as I've waded through weeks worth of trial footage, hundreds of hours of interviews, thousands of pages of records. The simplest way to check in with myself about where my head is, what I believe. I've listened to it more times than I can count. And I've vacillated, a lot. But through most of this process, the question for me while listening hasn't actually been Sophia versus Sean.
It's been Sophia now versus Sophia then. Do I believe the Sophia now enough to believe that the Sophia then wasn't involved in Marlene's murder? To be honest, I don't think I would believe the Sophia then about much. But the Sophia now has been up front with me about many of her biggest mistakes, from the embezzlement to lying on the stand, and now she would say this confession. But
I have to say, something about the confession in the Harper report just doesn't feel like the other mistakes Sophia has told me about. Reading in her own handwriting so many things that she's spent nearly three years telling me are not even a little bit true, mixed in so casually with things she swears are. It was written a full decade before Sophia and I started talking, and finding it still somehow felt like a betrayal.
And after reading the Harper report for the first time and going back to my Rorschach test, the wiretapped phone call, what I found is that the line between Sophia's truth and deception had, for me, been blurred irreparably. And this realization is encapsulated fully in these five seconds. Hey, don't, Sophia. Sophia. Don't tell me this is all a lie.
This exchange, near the beginning of Sean's call to Sophia on the day of Marlene's funeral, after he said he needs to talk to her, but before he said what about, I cannot shake the belief that in this moment, Sophia knew where Sean was headed with this. Which, in my mind, is why her response to, I think they know, isn't, you think they know what? It's...
Sophia has told me that she swears she didn't know what Sean was talking about in this call. I used to believe that might be true. Sophia's confession to Detective Harper changed that for me. Not because I believe every sentence of it, but because I don't know which sentences to believe. And because, together, they form a lie that is more manipulative and chilling than anything I thought I'd ever hear from Sophia. Then again...
I don't believe that Sophia wanted Marlene dead, the woman who really was the most supportive person in her life at the time. That doesn't make sense to me. But what I can see, and where I've landed, is that Marlene's murder feels like a burglary gone horribly wrong. But however it went down...
It is hard to imagine Sean at Marlene's house without Sophia having had at least an inkling of it, if not a physical presence there as well, given what I hear in that wiretapped sibling phone call. I don't know everything, but this is where I'm left. Wanting to believe in Sophia then's absolute innocence after getting to know Sophia now, but unable to. It's hard to say that out loud to you, and it's going to be hard for Sophia to hear it.
But also, what I believe ultimately doesn't matter. I am not Sophia's peace or justice. Ethan, her son, is. I think that even if you did play a role in Marlene's murder, I don't think that that means that you don't deserve to meet your son someday. Because I truly don't believe in quote-unquote good people or bad people. I think we're all messed up in our own way. I really do.
I don't think any of us is the worst thing we've ever done. And I think the only thing that makes us, makes any person irredeemable is if they don't own up to it. It would be so much easier if I could just bring myself to say it because it would, it would stop all the fighting and heartache within my family. And I think everybody would accept it because it's what they were told.
But I cannot say what I didn't do. And I got found guilty on the truth, Amory. So ask me how I'm supposed to believe and accept that the truth is going to set you free when that's what I experienced first. The only reason I'm at this point now is because I have to do this for my own soul. I am putting out there all of my own lies and my own
faults in the story, I'm willing to admit I fucked up. And I don't know that anyone will believe me. I don't think you should believe me. I think you should follow the facts and see where the investigation takes you because it's too easy for someone to tell a compelling story. I understand that. But at least I know that once and for all, the truth is out there.
Shortly before this series launched, Ethan responded to the only message I'd ever sent him through the only means of contact I'd ever been able to find for him. I told him what I was making, and that if he ever had any questions about his grandmother's murder or about Sophia, I'd be happy to talk. He wrote, I'm not really looking to have a full-blown conversation, but if it's of any interest or help, I'm honestly pretty disconnected from the history, all things considered.
My mom has been, and will always be, Danielle. That's the woman Brad started dating shortly after Sophia was arrested. Ethan goes on, I'm sure most people in my situation would show more interest. However, to me, Sophia is nothing more than the common killer you hear about on the news. Since then, I don't know if Ethan has heard or will ever hear a single second of this.
I don't know if he'll ever believe Sophia, or even want to begin the conversation with her. But Sophia does have something she didn't have at the beginning of this. The person she did get to raise. How you doing? Good.
I am doing great. You, on the other hand, I know what you are. Let's talk. I love you, brother. Older sister. I am. Well, so you are never to say older. Drop the word older and say loving anything other than old.
22 years later than Sophia might have hoped, Shane has now read and processed and voice memoed his way to answering his own question. He does not think his sister committed or is responsible for Marlene Johnson's murder.
Thank you so much. I'm sorry it's taken me this long. It really means a lot to me. You know, it was my fault to think that you should just accept my word for it because you can lose sight that other people need time to digest the things you already know because they weren't a part of any of it. Sophia has Shane back, her baby brother and her lawyer brother. I believe that there is a path forward to make you whole.
A path to help Sophia stay in the country legally, perhaps. To try to get Marlene Johnson's homicide case reopened. And maybe, someday, on his terms, a path to Ethan. Absolutely. I mean, look, he's family. Yes, that's the first time somebody said that. I know. I'm sorry, Sophia. Maybe that's the biggest thing he could do for me, is make sure he's okay if I can't.
"There was a lot to ask, but..." "No, it's not, Sophia. If he chooses to reach out, Sophia, he will have family. He will have family that understands." "I think so." Whatever happens from here, whatever can be repaired, Shane will be there with Sophia, he says. And in that, there is some peace for both of them. "We'll fix it. We'll do the best we can to fix it." "Yeah, well, we're sure it's all gonna try, right?" "Yeah, we're gonna try."
Yeah. I love you, Sophia. I love you too, Shane. Always have. Talk to you soon. Bye. All right. I feel better. Beyond All Repair is a production of WBUR, Boston's NPR, and ZSP Media. It's written and reported by me, Amory Severson. It's produced by the wonderful Sophie Codner.
Mix and sound design by Matt Reed and Paul Vycus, production manager of WBUR Podcasts. Original scoring by Paul Vycus and Matt Reed. Yes, they wrote all the music in this series, except the theme and credits music. Those are by me. And you can stream them if you want them.
Our managing producers are Summa Tajoshi for WBUR and Liz Stiles of ZSP Media. Our editors and executive producers are Ben Brock-Johnson of WBUR and Zach Stewart-Pontier of ZSP Media. I love this team. But wait, there's more of them. Our show art is by Beth Morris, episode art by Lillian Lee, and our video trailer was made by Matt Kliegman.
Huge thanks to our lawyers, Sheila O'Leary and Jeff Pyle, and to Margaret Lowe, Victor Hernandez, Kristen Holgerson, Briley Weaver, Jessica Coughlin of Onward and Upward Media, Kathleen Mora, Jason Molnoh, and Tina Safford. Thanks also to Shannon Dooling, Beth Schwartzapfel, Dean Russell, Emily Jankowski, and Lisa Pollack. And I could not do anything without my family.
And my husband. I wish someone so wonderful for all of you, but not him. He's taken. Okay, we will be making a listener Q&A episode. So if you have questions about anything at all in this series, the case, the people, the music, the making of the whole damn thing, we want to hear them. Email beyondallrepairpod at gmail.com. You can record a voice memo. You can send a written message.
You do you. BeyondAllRepairPod at gmail.com. You can also find pictures and a lot more information on Instagram by following WBUR Presents. Do me a favor, will ya? Breathe. Pet an animal. Quit something. Drink some water. Consider a nap. Listen to a good song. Eat a treat. Go for a little walk. Tell someone you love them. And then tell them about this show. In that order. Thank you so much for listening.
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