It’s All About the Vote!
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Welcome to Sisters-in-Law, the podcast, episode 10. It's all about the vote. From now until November 3rd, 2020, Sisters-in-Law, the podcast will be all about the vote. We're not going to be distracted. We're not going to be deterred. It's all about the vote because we all have to vote. If you're eligible to vote, you must do so.

We are real sisters, real lawyers, and we hope to have really good talk every time we do this podcast. Now, I said we won't be distracted or deterred from talking about the vote because it is all about the vote. But I have to say something about Trump. I'm sorry. He signed an executive order purportedly extending unemployment benefits because the Republicans voted.

could not get it together to extend the $600 a week they were giving states to give to those people who've been unemployed due to the pandemic. Well, let me just say, because I can't let it go without being said, that Trump does not have the power to appropriate funds. That power is reserved for Congress. That's number one. Number two,

He says that he's going to use some of the leftover coronavirus appropriations. He does not have that authority. Number three, the federal government under a previous act was supplying $600 a week for every person who was unemployed due to COVID-19. Trump's executive order only extends $400 a week. $100 of that or 25% of that

must be covered by the states. In other words, the states would pay it and not the federal government. And only if the states chose to pay it. So the $600 a week contributed by the federal government expired August 1st. Trump's executive order says $400 a week, except he can't appropriate funds.

And it's not going to be $400 a week. The federal government would only contribute $300 a week. And the states, if they chose to, would contribute $100 a week additional to unemployment benefits. Will it happen? Probably not. But he's scared to death of guess what? The vote. Well, the vote is coming and we want you to participate and we're going to talk about

The vote because it's all about the vote on Sisters-in-Law, the podcast, episode 10. Thanks for listening. Welcome to Sisters-in-Law, the podcast, episode 10. We're talking about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about voting. It's all about

We promised that we would do it and I hope we can stick with it. We are Janice and Davina Mathis, real sisters, real lawyers, and we hope to have some really good talk all about voting until the 2020 general election. Specifically, we want to talk about absentee voting, doing it the hard way, state by state. I'm going to cover South Carolina and North Carolina, and Janice is going to cover Florida, the

very important swing state of Florida and Maryland. Jan, I remember Barack Obama when he first left office talked about how to make the news fun and entertaining. I guess for a minute or two, I wonder why should news have to be fun and entertaining?

because news is worthy by itself. And this news about voting, it's not news, but this information about voting, I think is the most important thing we could talk about on this podcast. I don't know whether it's entertaining, but I know it's important.

And I don't want to be distracted by anything. Well, one of the reasons it's so important is that so many areas of our lives are affected by voting. But in this particular season, it's important that we pay attention to the details of how to vote, because there's been so much misinformation and noise in the news about

whether the election is reliable, whether it ought to be postponed and all this foolishness. So we want to shed some light on what the process is so that you'll be prepared when you go, whatever method of voting you choose to use. Today, we're focusing in on early voting or some people call it absentee voting, not early voting. We're focusing in on vote by mail or absentee voting.

But there's also early voting and there are other ways. But today we're focused in on vote by mail or absentee voting. I remember something that Jimmy Carter said, President Jimmy Carter. You know, he traveled the world monitoring elections to make sure that they were free and democratic. And he said, but I can't monitor U.S. elections. And I thought, how odd.

He went on to say, "In the United States, each of the 50 states and each of the counties within those states have their own voting rules and procedures. There's no way for anyone to monitor an election system when there's no central voting authority and no uniform voting procedures.

Some people say there are many as 20,000 jurisdictions in the United States, each with their own voting processes. And now that we don't have the Voting Rights Act to filter and monitor those voting practices, it's even more incumbent upon us that we understand them for ourselves. I particularly understand it this year because

We know Trump has a habit of having the Russians interfere with our elections. And I was reading today in the New York Times that the interference has already started. But I'm going to be discouraged by the fact that the Republicans are going to cheat. They're going to cheat because they're Republicans and they can't win unless they cheat.

I'm not really discouraged by the Russian interference because if we vote strongly, we can overcome whatever interference they

put in the mix. Well, let me get it started. South Carolina has some strange rules about voting. And it would be so because South Carolina was the head of the Confederacy. Well, you say the capital of the Confederacy was in Virginia, but I say South Carolina was the head of the Confederacy because South Carolina was the first state to secede from the United States of America.

And so we have a spotted history, not spotted, we have a true red history of trying to keep people from voting. It's really a misnomer in South Carolina. Absentee voting can be done two ways, by mail and in person.

Well, if it's absentee, how can you vote in person? Well, let me tell you how. A month before the election starts, people who have any one of 24 or 25 reasons can vote at their county voter registration office. All they have to have is a valid voter registration card or a valid picture ID showing

voter registration office, stand in line to give their reason and vote. I voted that way in the last several elections. There are two advantages. You can vote early, although South Carolina is not supposed to have early voting, but you can vote a month early.

And the other advantage is the lines are not long. It goes very quickly. I voted in presidential elections that way. You can go and vote in 10 minutes, even though you have to give a reason. And my reason was always that I had to work on election day. I work every election day. So that reason is valid. The older I get, the more reasons I have. I'm a little handicapped now, so I can vote early for that reason.

It is called absentee voting, but you can do it in person in South Carolina at your county voter registration office. I was reading over the rules, which are very confusing. You got to kind of have a law degree to be able to read the rules and understand them. But they say you can do it.

absentee voting in person at your county voter registration office, except some counties have other locations other than the voter registration office. So you really have to know what's going on in your particular county, not just in your state. So absentee voting in South Carolina can be done in person, which is an oxymoron, at your county voter registration office. Okay.

30 days before the election. It can be done by mail, but doing it by mail means you have to get an application for an absentee ballot.

You can get an absentee ballot application online, or you can call your voter registration office and get it. You can go to the voter registration office and get it, or you can write them and get it. But you must get an application in advance to be able to vote by mail, that kind of absentee ballot.

Now, the application might be the hardest part of doing it. And the deadline for getting an absentee ballot application, that's just asking for it. I'm a little concerned about that, Jan, because the fourth day prior to the election is like on Friday and the general election is on Tuesday.

I wouldn't want to wait until the Friday before that Tuesday election to ask for an absentee ballot. I would want to do it now. South Carolina, you can ask for that absentee ballot application now for the November 18th.

I'm afraid that those people who wait until Friday before the Tuesday election will not get their ballots in time and they will not be able to return them in time because no matter when you get them, you have to return them by 7 p.m. on election day. Do it early. Do it early. Do it early. So that's South Carolina.

You want to look at a different state? Yeah, let's look at a different state. Why don't I talk about Maryland a little bit? Okay. And, you know, we will find that the political inclinations of the state are carried out through the voting process. Maryland has a fairly easy vote-by-mail option. As a matter of fact, believe it or not, up until

two or three days before the election, you can vote early and register at the same time that you vote in Maryland. You can just show up at one of the early voting sites and any county with more than 200,000 registered voters has to have at least four early voting sites

You show up, cast your early ballot and register at the same time or change your registration if you need to. And all you have to bring are the old motor voter identification, a utility bill, a bank statement, a paycheck stuff. Remember back in the day when that was all you needed to register to vote? Yes, I remember that.

Maryland still uses those old motor voter criteria for qualifying somebody to register to vote. Now, if you want to vote by mail, you do have to request an application. You have to go to the online site, which is let's see, Maryland I lost my place. It is elections.maryland.gov

That's the State Board of Elections website. And you click on Quick Links, and then you click on Mail-In Voting from a mobile device or from your computer, and it'll take you to a question and answer page. And this is a little bit, requires more documentation. You have to have your date of birth, your driver's license number, if you have one, or a state-issued ID number, your address,

And they take you through a series of steps to verify who you are before they will agree to send you a mail-in ballot. But you can get your ballot by mail or they will email you your ballot. So it's really quite easy. I've already requested my early voting, my vote by mail. I'm getting them mixed up. I've already requested my vote by mail ballot.

And I expect it to be delivered by email in time for me to cast the ballot. And it has to be back at the Board of Elections office by November the 3rd at 7 p.m. That's pretty much true across the state. And so I have to make sure that I send it back in time to get it. I can't send it back by email. I can get the ballot by email, but I have to mail it back to them or take it to one of the drop boxes around the county. Well, Dan, let me ask a question about that.

When you mail it back, does it have to arrive at your voter, your elections office by November the 3rd at 7 p.m. or must it be postmarked? Because that's one of the issues that has gone around the country, especially around the South. You know, I don't know the answer to that question, but let me see if I can find it out before we leave the podcast today. Okay.

Because you're right, that makes a difference. My impression was that it has to be back in their office by then. But remember, you don't have to mail it. You can take it to a drop box, a secure box that is only for ballots to be turned in.

Well, that's a good thing. But my question about that is if you have to take it to a drop box and if you're a person who has limited mobility or limited transportation, you know, it might be difficult to take it back in. Yeah, it might be. But you have more flexibility because you don't have to wait until the last day. True. You know, you can do it the same day. I plan to vote my ballot as soon as I get it.

I do too, Jane. You can go online to check to see to confirm whether your ballot, you can track it just like a FedEx pick. Your ballot application has been received. Your ballot is being processed. Your ID has been verified. And they take you right through the steps so that you don't have to guess whether you're going to get the ballot or not. And it is awfully convenient.

Well, that's the difference between a blue state and a red state. That's what I wanted people to see, that when you're in a state that wants you to vote, the process is easier. You can feel the voter suppression in places where voting is more of an obstacle and something not to be encouraged. Well, do you have to present a reason in Maryland to vote absentee? No. No reason needed.

And they don't even call it absentee voting. They call it vote by mail or early voting. Okay. The phrase, I couldn't find the phrase absentee voting on there. There's no requirement that you give any reason why. Again, a trait of a blue state. Yeah. Yeah, a trait of a blue state. Now, there's North Carolina. Now, that's one of the states that partly contested. And I know their procedures. You know, North Carolina used to have

pre-registration for 17-year-olds. But when they went to the other party, that was one of the first things they repealed was that pre-registration for 17-year-olds. Well, they've loosened their laws again because the state is more than likely going to be blue this time. You know, they have a Democratic governor. And that makes all the difference.

They're a little schizophrenic right now, but they're leaning blue. Any North Carolina registered voter can request and receive an absentee ballot. There is no need for photo ID when you're voting by mail. Absentee voting and voting by mail in North Carolina are the same thing. You know, this vote by mail, North Carolina was sued about it.

And the voter ID, they were sued about it and they lost. So in other words, voter ID is not the law in North Carolina. And I hope I'm stating that clearly and stating that correctly. But in any event, no photo ID is required to vote by mail. You know, we used to talk about that a lot when we were talking about the

photo ID laws around the Confederacy and around the country that if you voted in person, you had to have a photo ID. If you voted by mail, you didn't have to. And it was so disingenuous for them to say, we're trying to curb fraud when it would be easier for someone else to use your right to vote. If you were voting by mail, then it would be easier.

They just wanted to do what they wanted to do. At that time, the more affluent you were, the more likely you were to know about vote by mail and take advantage of it. And the whiter you were. Yeah, the more affluent you are, the more likely you are to be white and conservative. So there is a political link to all of this.

Of course. So any North Carolina registered voter can request a mail-in or absentee ballot. No voter ID is required. They have some steps you have to follow. You have to complete the absentee ballot request form like in South Carolina. You can get it emailed to you or mailed to you or you can pick it up in person. You can use a helper. A helper, a close relative's

spouse, brother, sister, parent, child, grandchild, in-law, mother-in-law, father-in-law, son-in-law can assist you in getting it. They can assist you in returning these absentee ballot request forms.

They can also assist you in returning your ballot after you receive it in the mail and you mark your ballot. A close relative who I just defined for North Carolina can return your ballot for you. In addition to that, they have something called the Multipartisan Assistance Team, M-A-T, Multipartisan. I learned that word today. Assistance Team.

Those are designated people to help with people who are trying to vote by absentee ballot. They even are designated to assist people who cannot read or who cannot see or who cannot write for any reason.

Pretty easy, pretty open for the South. Once they receive the ballot, they have to mark it and return it either to a mail or to one of those drop-off points. A relative can help or one of the members of the multi-partisan assistance team can return it.

They don't have tracking like Maryland, but I think it's a very good system comparatively. Well, let me say one other thing about Maryland that I forgot to mention. And that is, you know, I mentioned that they don't call it absentee balloting anymore. They call it mail-in voting.

because of the conflict you know you don't really have to be absent so why but i didn't know that there was a statute adopted in maryland in may of this year requiring election officials to stop using the term absentee ballot voting that the official language is now mail-in voting which tells you something too i also want i don't get it jan what does it tell us

Some people are trying to discourage absentee voting and confuse people about absentee voting and set up all kinds of reasons for why you have to give a reason for why you're going to be absent and all that. If you do away with the terminology, then all of those questions seem to become irrelevant. Very interesting.

I read an article by a New York University law professor today, and it was talking about Trump and how he's been railing against voting by mail and absentee voting. Well, it was brought out in many news outlets that Trump has voted by mail for years.

And this professor said that Trump has made the case for voting by mail. Maybe inadvertently he made the case in favor of voting by mail because voting by mail and universal mail vote are two different things. He's suing. Is it the state of Indiana he's suing?

Because they want to send that balance to all registered voters. Well, that's... I thought it was the bottom.

Well, Nevada is one of them, but I don't think he's suing Nevada. But anyway, he's suing one of the states for sending out ballots universally to all registered voters. The governor of that state is a female. And I'm thinking it's in the Midwest, but we'll check that while we're doing this podcast.

But he made the case because voting by mail and universal voting by mail are two different things. He has now endorsed voting by mail in Florida because he says Florida's system is good. They've used it for years. They haven't had any problems. Well, about 37 states have been using it for years and they haven't had any problems. And they're very similar to the ones that we talked about today.

So for all but a few states, Trump is probably inadvertently endorsed voting by mail, although I don't think he intended to. Yeah, it depends on whether he's leading the polls in that state or not. It seems to me being his main criteria for whether he approves it or not. Well, he's not leading in Florida.

Well, he's closer in Florida. He expects and hopes to win Florida. Tuesday, October 20th is the deadline for requesting a vote by mail ballot in Maryland. You have to do it by October the 20th. It's important to go to the website, and I don't know how people manage all of this without at least a smartphone or a computer or a tablet. Go to Grand Filcher.

or grandchildren who have computers or tablets or cell phones, yeah, go and look at the specific instructions for your state and your county. We're giving you an overview today, but we caution you too that every state is different. The deadline for registering to vote for most states is 30 days before the election, which is October the 3rd, would make it November the 3rd.

But it ranges everywhere from 30 all the way to 15. In Maryland, you can, three or four days before the election, go vote early and register at the same time. The rules are all in place.

The rules are different everywhere, which is why Jimmy Carter said what he said. We don't have 50 different elections. We have 50 times the number of counties in each one of those 50 states, different elections. But you know, I like to tell this story because it's true and it illustrates something about voting. When Avery voted the first time, she was in college at Howard and she asked me to request an absentee ballot for her and I did.

the absentee ballot didn't come. We both went together to the county voter registration office to request the absentee ballot.

and it still didn't come. And on election day, she called me crying because she still hadn't received it. So I don't know whether she thought of it or I thought of it, but somebody thought of it. To go to one of those same-day on-site voter places, which was right off the campus, she went there, they asked her had she voted anywhere else, they verified her age, they looked at her driver's license,

And she registered and voted that same day. And that was in D.C.? That was in D.C. Blue State. It should be a blue state. Well... It's a blue district. Yeah, it should be a blue state. And to the extent that it has city council and mayor and offices other than federal officers. And Eleanor Holmes Norton represents them in the Congress, but she can't vote, which is ludicrous.

Delegate. It is a blue state for all intents and purposes. This is my first time living in a blue state. And so the differences have been striking and interesting and revealing to me. It's your first time living in a blue state as an adult. What blue state did I live in as a child? South Carolina. Remember we had Fritz Hollins for governor in...

I couldn't vote there. Right. We lived there as a child. Yeah. And being a Democrat in the South meant something a little bit different then than it does now. I mentioned Fritz Hollins because he was a different kind of Democrat from, say, Strom Thurmond when Strom Thurmond was a Democrat. That's true. He was more of the new school that came through. When Reverend Jackson talks about

the cotton curtain came down. He was an example of one of those governors after the cotton curtain came down.

Yeah, I remember him kind of fondly. And I had a few bones to pick with him, but kind of fondly when I was a senior in high school, I did a project on poverty in South Carolina. And he came to Greenville and took a tour of some of the neighborhoods that I studied. Oh, my goodness. And wrote about them.

And I don't know too many Democrats right now that want to look at any poverty. I don't know too many elected officials who are white who want to look at anything about poverty. But he did that. Now, the bad part was when...

I can't even call his name in that awful the Supreme Court Justice who is black Clarence Thomas when Clarence Thomas had been nominated for the Supreme Court I called Fritz Hollis who was a senator and told him please don't vote for him but he voted for him he voted for him I called all of them and told them please don't vote for him but they voted for him but you know I guess they had to

That was in the Bush one years. The country was taking a decided turn in the wrong direction. That was immediately after Willie Horton added

I don't think the Democrats wanted to be seen as voting against a black man who had been nominated for the Supreme Court. But I sure didn't want him in there. And I had the opportunity to go see Holder versus Shelby or Shelby versus Holder. It's Holder versus Shelby, isn't it? Shelby versus Holder. Shelby versus Holder. I sat in on the deliberations at the Supreme Court for one day.

and Clarence Thomas had his back turned to the attorneys who were making their cases. You know, that was the only time I think I've ever been jealous of you. Yeah, you got to go see the Supreme Court argument. I couldn't go. It was not a good day for us in the Supreme Court, but I did get to see Clarence Thomas and I thought

something is wrong with him. Everybody was facing those attorneys who were arguing their cases. They were asking questions and they were making comments and

Paying attention to what was being said and what was being done, except for Clarence Thomas. He turned his back as if he was mad at somebody, like a little kid mad at somebody. Oh, my goodness. A question didn't open his mouth. And then I did some reading and found out he didn't open his mouth for most of the years that he's been on the Supreme Court. Not in public. He would not say anything, which I found to be strange.

Yeah, they said his first words in like 2018. Yeah, they said that he was ashamed of his dialect or something, that he was insecure about the way he spoke. I want to tell a little bit about Florida before we have to end this episode of Sisters-in-Law, the podcast. Florida is one of those states that's going to be hotly contested.

And of course, the general election is November 3rd. And the deadline for registration, if you want to vote in the November 3rd election, is October the 5th. So it's a little bit less than 30 days, October the 5th, if you want to register in time to vote.

Vote by mail must be received no later than 7:00 PM on election day, November the 3rd in order to be counted and it can be received by mail. In Florida, they too have drop boxes at strategic locations in the County Board of Elections office. They encourage you to mail your ballot back if you're going to mail it back at least one week ahead to make sure that it is received on time.

And the secure drop boxes are at the supervisor of elections main office and the branch offices in the various counties. You can visit their website to find out where you have to do it. And in Florida, you don't have to have any excuse. They do have pretty extensive early voting in Florida, which surprised me a little bit from October 24th all the way through October 31st.

They have early voting that is mandatory for at least eight days, October 24th to October 31st this year. And then the supervisor of elections can provide additional early voting on October 19th, 20th, 21, 22, 23, and November the 1st. Again, you have to check with the county supervisor of elections to know whether any of those optional dates are available in your county. And you can register to vote

online in Florida at registertovoteflorida.gov. We're telling everybody if you have any problems with voting, remember this number 1-800-866-OUR-VOTE. That's been a hotline for a long time, 1-800-866-OUR-VOTE to report any discrepancies or irregularities.

And I would encourage everyone to consider being a poll worker or a poll observer. We hope nothing happens, but I can't help but remember the year 2000, I ended up riding a bus to Tallahassee, Florida, to be part of a rally to protest the selection of George Bush II by the Supreme Court. Yeah, I heard you say selection. Uh-uh.

It wasn't election. It was selection. Well, the Supreme Court ordered that the vote count be stopped. And so you will never know. There are statisticians who believe that Al Gore actually won Florida. But because the Supreme Court ordered that the counting be stopped, we don't have good verification one way or another. So that's why I say selection. Well, that's right. That was the year of the hanging chads. Yeah, the pregnant chads, the hanging chads.

It went back and forth from one court to the other. The Florida Supreme Court was playing ping pong with the federal courts. Eventually, the Supreme Court ordered without much elaboration and by stating that this case shall not stand as a precedent, which is telling in and of itself, just ordered that the counting be stopped. What kind of Supreme Court case is not a precedent for other cases?

Yeah, that's why we have a Supreme Court. Exactly. That is their main, well, that's one of their main functions.

Well, since you're talking about how to register to vote in Florida, if you would like to register to vote in North Carolina, you're a resident of North Carolina, you want to register to vote, go to ncvoter.org, ncvoter.org. And to register to vote in South Carolina online, scvotes.org, scvotes.org.

Now, you know, that is a relatively new development that in most states now you can register to vote online. That's right. And that just makes the digital divide all that more important to bridge.

Well, it does. I don't know if you recall when I was in law school, I did. For some reason, I wrote a paper. Now, you know, we had the 100 page writing requirement and all of that. But this was a paper. I think it was in my voting rights class. And I wrote about how we had the capability in 1989 to vote online.

We had the capability to register online, same-day voter registration and voting, to vote online. ATM machines were possible. Why couldn't we have voting machines like we have ATM machines? It's going to happen. I hope it happens in my lifetime. I'd like to see it. But think about how long ago that was. That was 31 years ago. Longer than that when I wrote about it. We had technology.

over 30 years ago to do it. We just don't have the will to do it. This is just the tip of being able to register online. We could really vote and our vote would be more secure if we did it online. If we did it like we do banks, but we have to have the will along with the technology. That's certainly the case. And when, you know, if you look at our history, though,

From the very beginning, from the three-fifths compromise that made Africans in America count as three-fifths of a human, there has been controversy and dissension about who has the right to vote. And I guess you always need to listen. Well, the real truth is we still don't have a federal right to vote. Yes.

You know, it's interesting when you talk to lawyers here in the Beltway, you're right. It's not stated explicitly. It says the right to vote may not be abridged or denied on account of race or previous conditional servitude. And so implicit is the right to vote, but it's not explicit. And you would think that just like the right to bear arms, it would be explicitly stated somewhere. But that's not accidental.

The lawyers here who work on this stuff every day, like at the Lawyers Committee and the Legal Defense Fund, think about it, I think, as if it's a Pandora's box or a can of worms. They don't want to open it because they're afraid of what might jump out. That's interesting, Jan. They will admit, when it's in there, they will debate you for a long time about the fact that the right to vote does exist in the federal government.

But why not make it explicit? Then they start talking about, well, if you start trying to amend the Constitution in order to make it clearer, you might end up with something that you don't like. Well, you would end up with something that some people don't like. Because some people think only landowners should vote. And that's kind of what the founders thought. Not so much educated, but rich people should vote. Well, that is true.

and certainly not people who were enslaved. They certainly didn't contemplate that. I had a judge tell me since I've been practicing law within the last 40 years that he thought there was nothing wrong with the poll tax because it guaranteed a certain caliber of person participating in the election. Yeah, except for the fact that you could be a black millionaire and still couldn't vote.

It just defies logic. But you know, if you want to be devilish, you can find any reason to do it. And this was a man who was known for his gentility and his intelligence. He read the Wall Street Journal every day. He was a reasonably fab judge.

Probably the fairest one in our county at that time. I know exactly who you're talking about. But, you know, if people want to discriminate and be unfair, they can find all kinds of justifications for doing it. And what was so ironic, he nor any of his children had to work because they owned 2,000 acres of Georgia pine timberland.

And you better believe it had some slaves on it at one time. Well, what I know for a fact is that a prominent boxer named Joe Lewis grew up on that plantation and carried their last name. Wow. Well, it is believable. And he looked as much like them as Thomas Jefferson's Sally Hemings children look like him.

Well, I keep saying that I'm going to keep saying that until it happens or until I leave here. I don't mind the memorials exist to the Confederates and even to the slavers like the founders of our country, the so-called founding fathers.

But the Jefferson Memorial needs to have monuments to Sally and all her children and all his slaves, a statue for each one of his known slaves all around the Jefferson Memorial. And Washington Memorial needs to have, the monument needs to have slaves all around it with their missing teeth. And the story about how he pulled the slaves' teeth and put them in his mouth and they called them wood. But you know, common sense.

tells you that he couldn't chew on wooden teeth. But, you know, just get the history correct. You don't have to pull down all the monuments. Just put up the monuments that go with them. And I think some of the ones, when we talk about founding fathers and founding mothers, we have to think about people like John Lewis and Diane Nash, those brave kids in SNCC back in the day, who really created a new America, Swerna Goodman and Cheney.

Emmett Till and his mother. Somebody said they created, Reverend Jackson I think said they created a white nationalist nation. In the 60s we recreated democracy. We created democracy. They created white nationalism. Absolutely. And you know down here, except for Atlanta, Dr. King is not really celebrated. Not like

But he was more a founding father of America that we know than George Washington was. Certainly more than George Washington and Thomas Jefferson and those people. Well, as beautiful as I was, I watched Les Miserables last night. Of course, that's the French Revolution. And that made me think about

how the French Revolution was influenced by the American Revolution, heavily so. And that beautiful poetry that Thomas Jefferson wrote, we believe all men are created equal and endowed by their creator. That has been an aspiration. That has been an aspiration. That has not been our reality. The extent to which we've come closer to that being a reality is because of those

young folk in the 40s, 50s, 60s, and now who continue to press toward that mark.

Absolutely. And I've been asked a lot, I guess because I'm an old head now, but I've been asked a lot, what do you think about Black Lives Matter? I think Black Lives Matter is the same as SNCC. It's the same as the lunch counter sit-ins. It's the same as the college students who integrated various public places. It's the same as the people who integrated transportation interstate.

It's the same fight. It's the same fight as depicted in Glory. Massachusetts, is it the 53rd or the 54th? Massachusetts, 54th. It's the same story. Our story here in America has been the same, that we want justice. We want what people are entitled to, you know, those unalienable rights.

that God gave us. Yeah, we want them to re-recognize. The name changes, but the fight is the same. We want the more perfect union. Right, and I think the reason I'm asked a lot is because somebody maybe wants me to say, oh, no, I don't believe in getting down the street and protesting. I don't believe in the kind of protesting they're doing.

or we have it good here and they need to stop well I'm never going to say that well they don't anybody I don't know who would ask you that but anybody who would ask you that that know you well or at least they haven't followed you on Facebook because they would see that picture of you lying down in the middle of the street with your good coat court suit on pretending you were dead um

It wasn't that good of a suit. But I think the point is, well, the protests of bygone days were okay, but these protests are unnecessary. Well, I've lived long enough to know that the protests of the bygone days...

were not okay when they happened. White people didn't like Martin Luther King. A whole lot of Black people didn't like Martin Luther King. And a lot of the professors of those students who were protesting, those college students were urging them not to protest for fear of funds to the school being cut off.

It was not monolithic. Protest because they would lose their jobs. And it was all kinds of stuff that was rabble rousing. Then it hasn't changed. It's always been a risky endeavor to demand justice. And we've always done it. Not everybody, but enough people have done it to move the pendulum a little further, a little further. And that's all that's happened. I would like to live to see things get a lot better than they are now.

But somebody's got to keep doing it. And I'm glad the young people are doing it. I'm glad that they're doing it and I hope they persevere. And I'm glad to hear and see that it's not just Black folk. It was never just Black folk. A lot of those Freedom Riders, a lot of those city and participants were also white. The testers who went to test to see what housing discrimination was all about, many of them were white. But I'm certainly glad to see young white folk out participating in the demonstrations and

with African Americans. I think that signals something that is positive and healthy. And we can see it. In the fullness of time, we can see it because of technology. And that's a wonderful thing. That propelled the civil rights movement in the 50s and the 60s, the fact that we had televisions in a lot of homes. Absolutely. And I tell you something else that fueled it, and I'm kind of waiting to see how this shoe will drop.

It was also because it was embarrassing overseas. Now, right now, we've been so thoroughly embarrassed on the global stage that it just kind of pales by comparison. But it was the dogs in the fire hoses in Birmingham, but it was also the fact that they were being seen in Britain and in Germany and Russia. Well, I was encouraged to see protests around the world after the George Floyd killing.

Not only did they see it, but they felt compelled to express their dissatisfaction with it. All the way to Japan, they were protesting. Yes, that is true. And that is absolutely important. Well, we've almost come to the end of our podcast episode for this week. We encourage you to contact us. You can contact me at JaniceLMathis at Yahoo.com.

My cell phone number is 404-394-1500. Facebook, or what's it called, Sisters-in-Law on Facebook. Or you can visit us in our individual accounts on Facebook, Janice L. Mathis and Davida Mathis. Together, we are the Sisters-in-Law. Real sisters, real lawyers, really good talk, but it's all going to be about voting from here until November the 3rd.

Thank you for joining Sisters in Law, the podcast, episode 10.