Matthew McConaughey Is The Coolest Dude In Texas | 2 Bears, 1 Cave
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Tickets are available now for my November and December shows. November 27th, I am at the Hollywood Florida Seminole Hard Rock. November 29th, I'm in Tallahassee at the Donald L. Tucker Civic Center. December 7th, I'm in Nolens at the Lakefront Arena. And December 8th, I'm in Pensacola at the Pensacola Bay Center. Tickets are at TomSagura.com slash tour. I will see you there. 100% on the stage.

- All right, we're sitting on the same side of the table this week, which is very strange, but it's because we are joined by the most handsome man

in Austin, Texas. In the world. In the world. And possibly in the entire world. And you can get his already huge smash hit book now available in paperback tomorrow. The book is, of course, called Greenlights. It's Matthew McConaughey, everybody. Give him a hand. How we doing, man? Buddy. Actually, I won most hands in 1988.

There's a story in there about how he lost a lawsuit case against this oil of mink when it had the bad acne. Do you mean when you put it on because your mom was selling it and she said it gave you cystic acne? Buddy, I will tell you the book's awesome. Buy it. But the fucking audio book is insane. Yeah. You want to have Matthew McConaughey sound like he's calling you. Get the audio book. It just fucking talks and you fucking push it to sleep. It was fun to read. I bet. They said it was going to take like four days to record it.

And I remember just sitting there going, man, I know these toys. I wrote this. It's not going to take four days. Popped a couple of buds and eight hours. One take. Really? Yeah. Wow. Don't listen to my audio book. Yeah. I can't read aloud. Did you fucking, I wrote a book a couple of years ago, number two, New York Times bestseller. Couldn't get to number one. But I have a question. When I handed in, like the first time I sent the publisher a,

like a draft yeah there is a different type of anxiety about submitting your writing yeah as opposed to like an audition oh hell yeah because you realize you know you can tweak you can deliver how you want to deliver a line you can deliver you can do things with your face with your body with your work but when it's just like here's what i wrote there's like this whole this thing you're like fuck man do you feel that too when you yeah hell yeah i mean i felt it for probably 15 years

I didn't have the courage to even go try and write it. I mean, I'd been gathering all these journals in a treasure chest and then telling my assistant, you know what? You're going to start logging that stuff. Maybe something's worth sharing one day. And it stayed on micro cassettes. And then I, and what the last kicker to get out the door and go see what I had to write something was I asked my wife.

If, hey, when I die, I got these books. These are really important to me. I'm looking in there and seeing something's worth sharing. And she just gave me the bird and said, F you, dude. You go do it. Don't put that on me. Yeah, that's a big thing to put. She was like, get out of here. So I loaded up the truck and headed off to Marford for 20 days with those, which was intimidating. But then when I did turn it in to declare. Yes.

Now being a writer. Yeah. It's a big thing. I can't dance around this thing. You can't kind of put lipstick on it and call it a thoroughbred if it's a donkey, right? Yeah, for sure. You put it there. I mean, I felt like it was something. Right. But I didn't know if it was going to translate, if anyone else was going to go...

Dude, that's your own pipe dream. Totally. I don't get it. Because there's also this thing like, I mean, I don't know if you feel this way when you, if you go back and forth, when you see yourself in a performance, but like when we do standup specials, right? A lot of times you'll watch an edit, the first like a cut of it. And you're like, this fucking sucks. Like I suck.

And then you watch it. And then there's just moments sometimes where you're like, you know what? This is actually pretty good. I like this. But you go back. Watch the same thing. You're watching the same thing. Multiple times you watch it. And then you have different feelings about it. And then there's that thing. It's like the night before the premiere. You're like, I feel pretty good. And then you're like, oh, fuck, man. It's just like roller coaster. But I don't know if...

if you feel that way about a performance, but on a book, I feel like there's this thing where you read it sometimes, and you're like, this is a good chapter. I like this chapter. And then you have your... It's just doubt. You get feelings of doubt. Yeah. I mean, look, every performance I see, I really don't see...

I don't think I'm fair about any performances of mine in the movies until about the third or fourth viewing. Right. It changes. Yeah, the first viewing, I'm among every film I've ever done, I physically have gotten sick in the parking lot. And I think it's partially...

You know, one scene, a full week comes rushing back. Yeah. And I'm like, why did you take four? Oh, the second half, take eight. I knew that morning. I didn't... Or, you know, so I'm not really laid back watching the story. I'm micromanaging my performance and everybody else's. And I'll get out of a two-hour screening. I'm sweating. It was a workout. Yeah. I was not really kicking back watching a movie, but...

second, third, or fourth time, I could sit back and watch it. It's kind of like watching any Coen Brothers movie for me, and I've never been in a Coen Brothers movie, but my favorite Coen Brothers movie is about the fourth time because you pick up all the great genius background stuff. Yeah, yeah. Oh, the line in Raising Arizona.

We are in the proverbial catbird seat. My fucking favorite line in any movie. Didn't catch it until my eighth time watching it. And I went to my wife, what is that? She goes, catbird. He's on catbirds. These bloody funny shapes, that one. Sure. Circular's funny. Circular's funny. So, I mean, I have that with performances with the book. By the time we had edited down, I will say this. Did you have this experience or that experience?

You send something in and you're like, ah, this is hot shit. This chapter's good. This story's great. It looks like somebody was murdered on it when they sent you the notes back. And they go, oh, I don't get it. Yeah. And I puffed up going, how can you not get that? If you don't get that, then you don't get the whole book's about. Sweet. What chapter is it? No, I had a few, but what happened, here's what I learned. Okay. 90% of the time, thankfully I had good editors,

I hadn't written it well enough. That was them saying, and then I went back and wrote it better. And they're like, oh, I get it. Right. But I went in thinking, you know, sometimes we have our own cliff notes and we don't. Sure. Oh, they're going to get that part. No, you didn't write it. I actually thought I got really lucky in that I had a, Suzanne O'Neill was the one who would send me emails.

notes about chap it was a collection of uh essays and and you know stories and there was times where i would see the notes coming back with like so much and i was like what the fun and then when i sat and read them and discussed and i was like yeah you're right this yeah this is i didn't do it well enough yeah but she made it way better by doing right yeah no my editors did too with me there's times or yeah there was a lot there's a lot cut but i had

Once I declared and we kind of put it all together and tried to make it a bit of an interactive play, interrupted by a prescribe or a poem or a picture and have that playfulness. And every time I'd get going, every time I'm preaching something, have to come off of that.

Or come in after precede that with a story where I eat shit. Yeah. Or so the reader can stomach it. You want to let, you know? Yeah. So you can see me self-deprecate and tell a story where I ate shit. And then after that, you can stomach me going, so here's the lesson I learned from it. Yes. You know? But don't be going straight advice across the board. People shut that thing on, shut up, quit telling me what the fuck to do. For sure. Did you notice this? This is something big thing. The person. First, second, third. I, you, we.

So it's about us telling the first person. This is my experience. You can have an opinion, but you can't really judge me right or wrong. I'm just telling you how I experienced it. Second person is you. Now we're giving advice. You've got to watch. You're telling people what to do, right? You've got to watch that because no one likes to be told what to do. Third, the royal we.

Which you got to watch that because then your shit can all sound like big platitudes. Like, what are you, God or something? You're speaking for us? You know, the proverbial we. But the interplay of those was a real, something that I got real conscious of along the way. Because if I would go into the you too much, it comes across preachy. Definitely. Go into the I all the time. You're going, well, it's your story, but what's that have to do with me? I don't see myself. And if you use the proverbial we, you're like, okay, yeah.

Yeah. Mr. Big stuff speaking with the voice of God. No, it's a huge lesson because it also, that's also how like we address crowds. Same thing. You know, you're always conscious of like, I did like, if it's, if it's a dumb ass moment, you're like, I'm a dumb ass. Right. But like, you kind of want to wrap people up.

you kind of want to dance with that stuff so that you can bring them in make fun of yourself and then you can also the more you do that then you give you have leverage to criticize then you can be like you know who's a idiot and you get to do that but you have to do me me me first yeah yeah you gotta you gotta look like the dumb ass for sure the takeaway from this book is that there are dudes who put on a hat

Because someone said it's cool and they want to look cool and they walk into a bar and you simply put on the hat and are cool like this fucking book is like like some people go I'm gonna drive through the desert for the next three days so that people say he's driving through the desert Yeah, it's on his Instagram. You did it at a time No one was talking about it. You get you right after you did a time to kill you just like fucking I'm getting a van I'm getting a dog. I'm gone. I

And you weren't doing it for anyone. In a world where everyone's doing it for optics, you were doing these journeys to the Congo, to Africa, fucking motorcycle with Cole Hauser and Roy Cochran. You guys weren't doing it for views. You didn't record it for social media, you mean? Did it even happen? Right, exactly. You know, got some killer black and whites from it. It's so cool. Well, I don't know. I mean, that's kind of what, if you try and be cool,

I don't know anyone that's really cool. No. We try to be cool. We always talk about this about the city of Austin. Yeah. All you got to do is be you. A lot of people move to Austin going, okay, well, I'm going to try to be what I think being me is like. No, that's not cool. Or I'm going to try to be what Austin is like. No, no, no. No, just be you, bro. Stay in your own lane. Do your own thing. Yeah.

you know, that's cool. This is what I want to ask about cool though, because there's a funny thing about when you watch a movie where the guy's cool. Yeah. Like when you get a cool role, because I think, like I was thinking about, I was watching Daniel Craig recently.

Right. And he's a he was in like a Knives Out thing where he gets. Yeah, it's like a fun. It's a different it's a character. Right. And you get to see like him having fun. Then you watch like a Bond movie. And I think the easy it's easy to watch and you go, oh, that's like that's not like a real acting. Right. But then you stop and you go, wait a minute, though, to like to be the coolest guy in the world.

for every shot, you're like, that actually is a thing. And you can't look like you're trying to be cool. Because then you're a fucking dork. Yeah. So it's like, he's got to walk cool. He's got to look cool. And it's like, how do you play cool? Dude, I think cool comes from just ownership. You know, if it's an actor, owning my man. Mm-hmm.

For instance, first role I ever did, Wooderson, Days Confused. Fucking love it. There's a line written in there, Richard Linklater, one of the original lines. I call it a launch pad line. Those lines that you go, this character means that. There's a book written I could write on that character, right? Wooderson's hanging out in front of the pool hall. High school chicks walk by. He checks him out the backside. His buddy leans in his ear and says, Wooderson, you got to cut that out, man. You're going to end up in jail.

He says, no, man, that's what I love about those high school girls, man. I get older, but they stay the same age. I went, who the fuck is that? This show is sponsored by DraftKings. This is the week fight fans have been waiting for. Two epic battles.

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is not saying that line to be cool. What if that guy's, that's not an attitude. He's not trying to make a joke to make Sasha laugh. Right.

No, what if he's like, I got life figured out, man. This is how the math works. Yeah, yeah. I am living in the salad days, to quote the Coens, right? Yeah. So it's a life philosophy. Yeah. Now that unpacked all kinds of stuff for that guy. Because it was truth. Truth. And the guy's saying it's truth. And I think what happened, and I look back at the scene, I actually stepped forward on the curb and kind of set it to the ether, set it to the universe. Like, we're good, man. Yeah, yeah.

That's why I like a Wooderson. I wasn't trying to be cool, but owning. Owning it. Your life, your politics, whatever it is, what you want, what you can do, what you can't do. Yeah. What works for you, what doesn't. Without soliciting, without intruding, cool doesn't really intrude. Cool doesn't trespass.

You know those people you talk to? You're like, man, I love talking to them because they kind of hold their space, man. You know those people you talk to that are always trying to get in there and solicit and get the... You're like, be cool, man. Yeah, yeah. Own your shit. Yeah. You don't need me...

convert to make you cool. Right. Chill the fuck out. Right. Right. So it's own, I think it's ownership. And if I can find that or any performance I see where you see somebody own whoever they are, the most, nerds are cool. Right. When they're like, I'm a nerd, man, I like this shit. That's cool. Yes. I don't think dorks are cool because dorks. What's the difference between a nerd and a dork? All right. Nerd,

Dorks want to say, dorks change their answer for wherever they are to fit the circumstance to do what they think is the cool thing to do. You need to come to the Comedy Mothership fucking green room. There's a bunch of dorks in there. Okay. I think you made it real clear. But I mean...

That's so true. When did I start drinking tequila? It's coming up. That's the perfect summary. That's the perfect summary. It really is. Because it becomes about

somebody being inauthentic. They're pleasing whoever is talking to them. Essentially, you're a fucking dork at that point. There's no compass. Everything's an affair. There's no marriage on any sort of POV or stance. You don't have anything. Where you come from. It's like we talk about improv a lot. Y'all know improv, but I mean movies.

And comedians do this sometimes. Some comedians are very good actors. Some...

are better performers at a skit and not necessarily a great actor. Totally. There are some scenes, and I won't point them out, but there are some scenes in the movie that we've all laughed at very hard, but I look at it and go, that's a great SNL skit, but that had nothing to do with the relationship and the circumstance in that movie. Right. So riffing and improv is not an amendment. It's not a one-off of, I've got to find a spot to get this joke in, and if I get a gap, I'm going to throw it. Yeah. If it has no context. Yeah, it doesn't. Right? Then it's like, okay, that's a skit.

Improv comes from the, good improv, I think, comes from the written word, from what was the base of who the character is, what's the circumstance, what's the relationship. And then if you can riff on that, then you're like, I don't know, you call it improv? I don't know, it's coming from, you're just expanding. Like, I get a launch pad line like that, I'm going, pfft.

I come back to work for three weeks. Linklater throws me in scenes. I'm going like, everything's based off the guy who believes that I've got life figured out because that's what I love about high school girls. I get older, they stay the same age. You know what car that guy drives. You know what time he's, you know if he's married, if he's got kids, if he doesn't, what music he listens to, what he's buying, if he's got a dollar in his pocket, goes in 7-Eleven. Yep. You know what this guy's got, right? You know what's in his car. You know what's in his console. Yep. Yep.

by that line by that line one of the things I just wrapped production yesterday here in Austin on a show we did and it was so much fun I got to work with so many great actors on it and one of my favorite things about great actors as opposed to

other ones is that great actors you I realize this we had like amazing people that came in to do it Shea Whigham came in hey Shea Whigham amazing yeah man Dan Stevens uh uh Malin Barr um just all these great actors can is that they all are in service of the scene yeah and that they go oh no like I should I should do less here

And you're like, cause most people are like, I want like some people would come in and go, I want to add a bunch of shit. I'm going to say, and you're like, dude, relax. You're just supposed to say like, excuse me. And those, and you bring in like great actors, like the ones I named and they would go like, oh yeah. So I think I'm just gonna, I think I should just, you know, look at the door and you're like, actually, yeah, that's way better. That serves the scene. You got to earn your moments acting in, in life. You got to earn your moment. Stand up. You got to earn that punchline. Sure. Right. You got to earn that callback.

Yeah. Right? If you don't earn it, it lands in like, what are you talking about? Yeah. You got to earn your moments in a performance. I think like in life too. You got to, it's just important to where you're not. Right. It's where you are.

this is if you look i i look at staying on days confusing wooderson the last scene we shot i'm now working three weeks i'm loving this people are telling me i'm they think i'm good at it i'm getting paid 360 bucks a day i'm going this is legal this is great man give me call me back as much as i can yeah there's a scene where wooderson they're they're at the they've had the night at the field now they're gonna go get the aerosmith tickets in wooderson's car

And he's like, talks to the gang. He goes, all right, man, we're heading out. And he goes to his car, towards his car. And the group stayed there. And I don't remember exactly, but the group stayed where they were. And I returned to the group. And I remember that night feeling like, false move. Bullshit. Wooderson would have never two-stepped. Wooderson would have gone to his car, sat back, cranked it up, put on some tunes, rolled the doobie, and waited for everyone in their own time to come get in his car. I two-stepped.

Not a Wooderson move. It's a tad dorky. Even though Wooderson's not a, you know what I mean? It was a two-step. And Wooderson was a guy who just, whatever way he heads, by hook or by crook, if he passes the pot of gold, well, he passed it. Maybe he'll catch it next time around. But he's never going to two-step. And I shouldn't have gone back to that scene. I shouldn't have re-entered that scene.

You didn't realize it at the time. No, I didn't realize it at the time. Getting more screen time, bro. Sure, yeah. Hanging out with a guy. I mean, why not? And it is your first movie. Yeah. And you have iconic, culturally iconic lines that we say for the rest of our lives. That's crazy. In your first fucking movie. Your first three movies, insane. Boys on the Side, that, and A Time to Kill. Your first three fucking movies.

Well, there's Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Oh, Texas Chainsaw Massacre. That's the... All right, so your first three. Yeah. Yeah. Dude, and I, yeah, the first one I get, walking in the right bar at the right time, meet a guy named Don Phillips, four in the morning. He's riding with me in a cab to go drop me off at my apartment. He rolls a dupe, says, you ever done any acting? I said, man, been in a Miller Lite commercial for about that long. More of a modeling job. Well, you might be right. Come to this address in the morning, pick up the script.

I go pick it up. That was three lines in days. That worked out for three weeks. The chainsaw, a masker. I was supposed to play a part of a guy that was like a Romeo to Renee Zellweger's Juliet, where I like ride up on a motorcycle at the beginning, pass the school, black leather helmet, look at her, ride off. And at the end, after she escapes, pick her up. I go in for that. I've already got my U-Haul packed to go west, young man.

It's packed. I've moved out. I'm out of that. I'm not renting a place anymore. I'm going to swing by. It's a one-day job. I go by the production house to go see the director. And while we're sitting there, and I'm going to shoot like two days, he goes, hey, we haven't been able to cast the main killer, Vilmer, the guy with the mechanical leg who can't find his remote. He drives a tow truck. He goes, you know any male actors in town? I gave him a couple names.

And I remember I left, I got to my car, and I'll never forget it. It was my blue truck, old blue. I opened the door, and as I was stepping from the sidewalk into the cab, I stopped, and I went, I should go read for that. I shut the door, went back in, said, I want to read for it. He goes, okay, we don't have any actors. The actors are around here. And I went...

And the secretary goes, I'll do it. And he goes, man, just, you know, I don't know, see if you can scare the hell out of her. And I went to the kitchen and I grabbed a big exercise-like serving spoon. And I came back and welded it like some knife and went off and scared the shit out of her. And she drew tears. And after we were over, she was like, that was great. You really scared me. And he goes, you got the part. So all of a sudden I'm working for a month in Pflugerville.

And I had to go sleep on a buddy's couch and pull out stuff out of my damn U-Haul for the next month. Then drove out west, which I had days confused. The film would come out and I had that as a bit of an audition. And then I had the stories in there about feeling needy, you know, feeling like I needed to get an agent. And that same guy, Don Phillips, who I met in the bar that night, is the one who ate my ass out and said, get the hell out of here. This town will eat you up. They smell needy.

Get out of here. Go ride. Go off with your buds. And me and Cole and Rory hit Europe for over a month riding motorcycles. Came back. I was ready. Because I was. I was running out of money, but I was also like, come on, man. I need it. And I would have taken those meetings, and they'd have been like,

not very he's not as cool as we thought he might have been he's like that desperation always reads i would have been trespassing i was desperate but there's a fine line between desperation and getting what you want like when you did a time to kill they wanted you to play a clan member yeah and you but there's so like there's the person who goes i want to be the star right yes but you've always navigated a great way of going of advocating for yourself like well that one was yeah i mean i'd read the script i was like jake mcgann it's that's

That's the guy I'd like to, you know. And I go in and I have that meeting and I did plan it. It's one of those things, those plans that kind of went well. I have to say I've been fortunate a few times where some ideal plans where I'm going to lay down the snafu or the bait that have worked out. Many of them haven't, but this one did. And after, I remember I was wearing a John Mellencamp sleeveless T-shirt, man. Smoking cigarettes.

I'm laying back and he's like, we've agreed. I've got the part of the Klansman. We're all set. And I said, so who's playing the lead of Jake Bregant? And he says, I don't know. Who do you think should? I think I should. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 answers. Rates will rise or fall. Inflation's up or down. Can someone please invent a crystal ball? Until then, over 38,000 businesses have future-proofed their business records.

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It planted a seed, though. And as you read, a lot of things went my way. Sandra Bullock, who was already cast while you were sleeping, did really made a lot of money. Yeah. All of a sudden, I think she could green light a movie where when she was cast, I don't think she was able to. John Grisham wouldn't approve my buddy Woody Harrelson. It's crazy. You know why? You hear this crazy stuff, man. So Oliver Stone, remember that time? I don't know if you remember the time Oliver Stone and John Grisham were having a battle. Mm hmm.

Evidently, there was a killing of a farmer in Mississippi, I think. Excuse me, I don't get the details right. And it was a murder by a young man and a young woman. And they said they were enacting the Mickey Mallory from Natural Born Killers. Oh, right. The farmer John Grisham was good friends with. John Grisham deconstructs, has approval over the roles. Well, that guy's not playing me.

Right. You know? So things, odd things opened up and then the timing was right and all of a sudden the movie's going, the last thing to cast is the lead. They got, you know, Carly Haley. They got Sam Jackson. They got Sandra. Everything's looking good. Well, maybe we'll take a chance on this more relatively unknown guy. And Schumacher does me a real solid. I remember it was either Valentine's Day or Mother's Day. I can't remember, but it was a Sunday.

And they flew me to LA and he said, we're going to shoot in this little studio on Fairfax. It was Mother's Day. Was it Mother's Day? Yeah. Okay. We're going to shoot. It's a pretty good day to Malaprop one or the other. Valentine's, Mother's Day. Love you, Mom. You called your mom that morning. So we go on Fairfax and he says, the reason we're not shooting in a studio is because no matter how good you do, you're probably not getting this part.

And I don't want it to be on your record or resume of try it out and didn't get it. It's not a good way for you to get started in Hollywood. Damn, that's so thoughtful. How about that? Cool as shit. That is really thoughtful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It worked out. That was a little... I planted a seed that day that did, I think, help for it to end up to pay off when I was in there in that audition and said, I think I should. I want to ask you this because we're talking about directors. Because...

You're an incredible actor, and you've worked with a ton of directors at this point. Is there something, whether or not they're well-known or not, that you love from a director when you're starting a production, and conversely, something that you really don't like? Yeah. So the best directors say yes. It puts fuel on your fire. Yeah. The best directors you want...

the actor you you want the talent to own their stuff you want them to believe it's their idea we all want it to feel like it's our idea sure i say one thing when i go and meet direction now and i just say it well i don't want to look man i'm easy to direct just don't tell me what to do yeah yeah that's great make me but but i love it when you manipulate me yeah and make me think it's my idea but it was really yours i'm quietly going bravo yeah i saw that but i'm not calling it out yeah but i caught that

I love that. Yeah. Trick me, bro. Yeah. It's simple. I'm letting you know. I'm easy prey, man. Like a coyote. Tell me to go that way, I'm going to go that way. So just tell me you want me to go the opposite way. Yeah. You know? I'll fall right into your hands. So a stubborn one is one who would be no fun for you, essentially. Well, so one is a lot of directors, if things are going well, and your actors, you know, and it's going, the performances are going well,

Have the confidence to sit back and go, yep, next. Because we get hot hands sometimes. Yeah. And you don't want a director, and you also don't want an actor that's competing for the best idea. That's a big one. It happens probably in some of those green rooms, right? For sure. You know? Because I've been around some of those. There's competition for the best idea. And when you've got the hot hand, and you've had the best six ideas in a row,

on a set when you're acting as a director, I want you to have the 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, 14th, 40th in a row. Yeah. You're hot, man. Yeah, go. You're in the line. You're getting me what I want and you're owning it. Now, let's do it. Yeah. If the director will try my way or try the way I want to do it and sincerely go, I see that.

Now we try it this way. I'm much more able to go. Damn right I will. And I'm going to give this give this real justice. I'm not worried that it's my idea. We just want the best idea. We just want the best idea to happen. Sure. The other thing is that when you're in a movie, I always say this. The communication with the director is what you do between action and cut. It's not what you say outside of it.

Here's what I think we want to do in the scene. All that can be great to get there, but really your communication is what you do between action and cut.

And the best thing that can happen is when you have an idea what you want to do in a scene, you don't say it to anybody. Then you do the scene and they come back and you go, you know why I love that? Here's what I got from the scene. And they go, pa-pa-pa, pa-pa-pa, pa-pa-pa, pa-pa-pa. And you pull your paper out of your pocket and you go, that's exactly what I wrote. I wrote down what I wanted to do, what I wanted to hopefully come across. You just said, and there it is. I'd written it down beforehand. That's kind of a kismet.

moment when that can happen. So I think no. I don't like the word no. Best directors started off with this with Linkletter. Listen, we call it verbal ping pong. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What if? Yeah, yeah. What if? Yeah, yeah. But it's a forward moving process. You're figuring out. And he's directing me, redirecting me through the give and the take and the flow of the creative, but never going no. No.

Not that. Boom. Axles will go, whoa, you just gave me a red light. You just stunted my growth. My creativity just stopped. Now anything you tell me to do after this, it's your idea, not mine. Come on, man. Trick me into thinking it's mine. Do you need approval from a director as you're doing it, or can you operate independently? I can operate independently, but I like approval of it. Because...

There's times where, and I've tried to close these gaps, meaning there's what we intend to do, there's what we actually do, there's what gets recorded, and there's what gets edited. Trying to close all those gaps. And over 35 years, I have been able to close the gaps where what I'm wanting to do is pretty close to what I'm doing, which is pretty close to what's getting recorded. Hopefully what's going to get edited. But sometimes it's not, and I need that director to go,

come here I know what you're trying to do but come look at it and I'll watch the scene and go oh that's not what's coming across gotcha maybe that's the angle maybe that's me but sometimes there's a larger gap here's what I thought I was doing maybe it was but it's not captured or maybe what you thought you were doing is not actually what you were doing what is because we're all mesmerized by Scorsese and you did Wolf of Wall Street what's he like on loves funny really

So, and nonverbal. I don't think he gave me any direction that had an English word in it. Really? No. It was all, do the, do the, go, go, go, go, go. It's musical. Everything's musical. And what we hear is boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Go, go, go.

Musical and funny. And to see his little shoulders start bouncing when he's laughing is just beautiful. That's awesome. So, you know, I go in. I wrote a lot of extra stuff in that scene and there. And that character had a launchpad line. That character who says to Leonardo's character, when Leonardo says, what's the secret of this business? There was a line written in the script that said, cocaine and hookers. And I just went, okay, is this guy being funny?

Or does he really believe that? What if the guy really believes that the secret to this brokering business is cocaine and hookers? We can unpack that and write a book, right? Yeah. Why cocaine? Why hookers? What do all these things do? Which led to, you know, jerking off. And how many times a day? Rookie numbers. Don't want too much travel. Need more bass. All that bullshit that I was spewing.

And I remember, you know. It was just so funny. It was so fun to do. Thank you. It was super fun to do. And I went in. Sometimes I'll just go like, let's just do it live. I'm going to introduce it on the day. Sometimes I don't have the balls for that. And I'm like, I might want to run this by.

Hey, Marty, I got an idea. So the day before, I said, listen, I've been playing with this scene and extended it, but I think it's like, yeah, we'll do it. And I did it. And I was like, those are the times like you better do it well. Yeah. Because if you don't, they're going to go, no.

no, and you can't bring them back, reel them back in the next day when you're live, right? So I did it. Well, he was sitting there kind of laughing. And I remember he just goes, did you say the thing about the thing? I went, yes, I did. He goes, did you say the thing about, there were two points he wanted to hit. Did you say the other thing about the thing? I said, yeah. He goes, okay, great, do that. And the next day he went out and did it. And I tell the story all the time, but we were five takes, got it, moving on. And Leonardo goes, hang on, Marty.

And he goes, what's that thing to me? He goes, what's that thing you're doing before the scene? Because I was doing the... And it was a thing I do before scenes in different rhythms to relax. Yeah. Get myself out of my head. Find the rhythm. You don't want to come in thinking, right? I'm stepping into a Scorsese movie. I'm a one-day worker, two-day worker. I got nerves. It helps get rid of anxiety. It also...

Helps the crew go, what's the fucking weirdo doing? Which is good. Puts you in an underdog situation. Fight out of it, right? That's this fucking lunatic doing that. It's a good feeling. So I'm going to, good. They're not sure, so I've got to really make this count. And I sold him. That's what I'm doing it for. He goes, what if you do that in the scene?

And the next take is what's in the movie. That's awesome. That's fucking wild. That's so cool. That's cool to know that two people I love could work together. So a lot of times you think you get two stars in there and there's a competition. There can be. There can be. Not with the really good ones. Look, you want to be stolen from. It's an honor to be stolen from on set in a way that you...

Again, you know they stole, but ooh, that was a good pickpocket. Yeah. It's kind of a compliment. And the way I was talking about the director, about like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but how about this? They're stealing. And it's an honor to kind of be stolen from. And you want to steal. And then also steal. That was a version of Leonardo giving. That's very giving, yeah. He goes, that thing, I don't know what it is, but this is a wild scene. It's a wild kick. You put that in. So we just, how it fell in, it fell in, and then...

He sat over there very easily. He's playing it. Listen, trying to get on the groove. What's he talking about? Yeah, I think I understand. Or do I? I'm not sure. And a lot of times, yeah, you will have people in that position that may go, dude, I don't like this. They will think I'm losing this scene. Right. Or I'm getting shown up in this scene. A really confident actor is not going to feel that way. A really confident actor is going to go,

I've got plenty to do. This is great. Let me put fuel on this fire. This makes the movie better maybe. This is a great scene. I watched this thing. It was the behind the scenes, like the rolling take of you on Eastbound and Down.

Yeah. And between takes, it was still, you know, it was rolling. It was watching you do like, you were just staying loose. Yeah. It's fun to watch because you're like, oh, he's just staying loose right here. Trying to not, you know, trying to get from the reason to the rhyme. Because you go study, you prepare, it's reason. You want to know what you're saying. I think words are important. But by the time you show up, you kind of want to hopefully chunk all that shit out of the way and get out. I don't want to get nonverbal now. Let's get into the...

Let's get into the rhyme and let's get into the ether here and get this thing off. Let's levitate. I love that you like getting weird. It's my favorite thing is late night, family's asleep, back to the man cave, bottle of wine, cowboy boots, gloves, Speedos, and listen to music. Like if someone walked in. You're just doing a Speedo ad out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like it. I like it. And it's so funny. I think that's the...

There's such a child still about you. You're still that kid in a loincloth building a fort. I hope so. I don't want to, you know. I remember when I met you. I wanted to tell you that. I met you. See if you remember this. It was 25 years ago. You definitely don't remember. It was fucking hilarious.

It was across the street from your house. Which house? In LA. In LA? So across from you, I'll paint the picture. If you walk out of your house, to your right, there was a woman who was divorced from a TV producer writer and she had a tennis court. And then, like if you walk- Hollywood Hills? Yes. Astral?

Yes. Yes. And then to the left, it was like a fucking Saudi arms dealer. Yes. And some things would go on late night over there. So I was at his house. You were filming. No, I wasn't filming. Tom did a porn. I go over there with the guy who would teach tennis.

To the lady on the right. And he's like, yeah, I live here sometimes. I'm like, you're not fucking hurting me. He was like, oh, I just teach tennis. I was like, okay. So he's like, he befriended the Saudi dude. Yeah. So we're over there one night. You walk, there's, and he's having a party and there's women and everybody. And I was like, you know, just walking around.

Walking up the hill, there's a dude in swim trunks, barefoot, with goggles on his head. I'm like, who's this motherfucker? And everyone's like, that's Matthew McConaughey. I was like, shut the fuck up. And so he walks up. I still remember this girl was like,

how do you spell your last name and you that's a really good question and you'd spelled it and then she's like wait what and then you were like i just spelled it you miss again again and then i was like this is why this felt like a real hollywood like thing you know i was like this is this is crazy

All these people around. Everyone started to create this energy. Like Matthew McConaughey's here. He's in swim trunks and goggles and there's not a fucking pool around. And then they were like, we're playing basketball. And you're like, I'm playing basketball too. So you started shooting hoops with us in your trunks. And then... I'm starting to remember this. Really? And then I remember, because I tried to get them to find it. I go, I remember, because this was, this would have been like 2002 or three. So it was like, there wasn't like,

social content. But I was like, dude, I saw it in like a, you know, like an inquire thing. Like it made it to some, somebody had taken a photo and I was like, it's out there. And they looked and they looked and they couldn't find it. But I was like, I remember, uh,

being at whatever internship and somebody being like hey there's the there's the photo evidence of your story that we thought you made up and I was like no I'm telling you I was at this fucking party and I was like that's that's where I met him I remember this the little gate had some steps up yeah plateaued out and there was thing yeah yeah I mean I would I would go I remember that yeah I I

I mean, they played some pretty good music. You could tell it was a good time to have it. I figured it was time to, you know, if I was already feeling corny, to keep the circus going. Yeah, it was a fun night. It was a fun night, dude. I mean, I would go over there with the fucking tennis guy, and they'd be like, yeah, she's the fucking Miss July. And I was like, Jesus Christ, like, who is this guy? And they're like, I don't know what he does. It was the thing, it was like, we don't know what he does. It was one of those guys, the guy that owned the place. I was like, what do you mean you don't know what he does?

And they're like. Yeah, it was. Yeah. I never knew. He drives an armored car. I never got to know that neighbor well. Yeah. But an armored car, you're like, okay, he drives an armored car. A lot of people don't like him. The tennis coach probably knows all the scoops. He knows the scene of the stories. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, we met in an acting class thing. We were like tennis guys in the acting class. Some of the Backstreet Boys were in the acting class. Like a very Hollywood acting class experience. How much of your book would you want your son to live through? Oh, good question, man. Thank you. So let me tell you this.

I can leave now. When are we going to drink tequila? Keep going. Because I don't want them to live. I got really scared for you in Australia. Like, I got really scared for you. As a father. Take a repo. As a father, I went, oh, my God. That's my fear is my kid to study abroad and that to happen. This is a very freaky part of that thing. But as I look and I go look at Times of Chateau. Yeah. You and the Native. It was in Canada, but I think Native Americans in Canada. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like all these wild things. You go into Africa. Yeah.

All these things are really cool in hindsight, but as a father of a young man, how much of this book do you want your son to live through? I mean, I honestly, what's in that book, I honestly hope he can live through that much or even more if he wants. There are stories that are not in that book that are the ones that I, are the reason I wear a mouth guard at night because I wake up. Yeah.

wake up at the exact second where I go back and I remember it and I was like, oh, I almost died right there. None of those did I almost die. And so those, I've got, you know, a few circumstances that I would not want my son to live through. Those, no, man. I mean, look, there's things I made it through. The beauty of ignorance. God bless ignorance. Cheers. It's my career. Can we cheers that? You know? Cheers. Yes, man. Yeah. All right. I got to reach over. 100%.

So there's things that I survived because I didn't know better. Thank goodness. But most of those stories in that book that I went through, I would not go back in my own life and say, ooh, if I could get rid of that, I wouldn't have to do it. And I wouldn't. You know, that's part of... Our kids are living a more affluent life than I was. That doesn't mean they don't or can't have the experiences that I had. Um...

I don't want them to fall under prey to any kind of entitlement. And part of not doing that in life is having to be in situations where you have no safety net. You're like, I've got my own devices, man. How am I going to roll here? How am I getting out? How am I getting what I want? How am I going to survive? How am I not going to go crazy? How am I going to go crazy and out endure the craze? How am I going to go wing it? How am I going to know better?

I want my son to be in those situations, you know, and I was in a lot of them. A lot of them. A lot of success. I engineered a lot of it. Didn't engineer at all. It was divine and divine, divine invention. Something I can't. I can't.

you know, make the math up. But you need that hunger. Like your son will never sleep on someone's couch for like an extended period. Cause he's, he, at some point he probably can just go, Hey dad, I'm in LA. But like when, when you're young and you're poor, you go, I, I, out of necessity, can I crash on your couch? There's a vulnerability when you wake up in someone's living room that I feel like makes this man, if that makes sense. You, you look, you might be right. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna, I sure don't think you're wrong. Um, do I think that's necessary? Um,

No. Do I think, do I try as a father and his mother as well to not make things harder, but to go, no, you got to earn that. I'm not handing that to you. That's hard sometimes, right? There's initiations and there's rites of passage. You got to skin your knees. If you pull it off the first time, bravo. But if you skin your knees a few times on the way, bravo. I'm not giving you the pass to the door. We like to say, look, you're going to get...

access more access you're gonna get more access with us those you get well i have no problem getting you in a door right once you're in that door bro it's on you so don't embarrass yourself and handle it and show up on the other side let's see see where the rubber hits the road um so yeah they getting a little quicker access to certain things and say i did sure

But we're doing our best to make sure they earn it. Whatever that is, I don't think you got a proverbial bleed to make it count. Trip yourself running downhill when things are going well. Face plant for the hell of it. It's a great chapter. I still battle with that. So, you know, confidence to go find shit out. I don't know. I want him to travel.

Travel has been my best educator. I think it's the best. Getting lost. The best. Getting found. Meeting strangers and going like, oh, geez, we are all a hell of a lot more similar than I thought. You travel. You don't vacation. You travel. I'm a much better traveler than vacationer. Yeah. I've still got to learn how to be. My wife tells me I've got to learn how to take a vacation better. Because I have to either write something or break a sweat or do something in the day to go, okay.

Cocktail's going to taste better this afternoon. Yeah. But if it's... I can only... I'm not as good at handling successive Saturdays. I need to chunk a little bit of Monday in each day just to go, all right, earn that. There we go. I think it does feel better. Another notch. That's why I love Friday the best. First half, business. Second half, 48-hour runway of freedom. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's true. Did you know that when people watch the trailer...

For tiptoes. They think it's a sketch. Did you know that? That no one thinks it's real? They think it's a what? It's an SNL sketch. Did you know that? I did not know that. I've shown that to so many people and they're like, what the fuck did...

"Eston, I'll do this." I'm like, "No, this is real, dude." Like, did you know? It wasn't quite real, but it was real. It's insane! The first time you see it, you're like, "What the fuck is happening?" Like, this is the most- have you seen the trailer? I have not seen it! Just play it for like ten seconds for the first- Wait, what is this?

- Put his hands on. - This is one of the craziest things that I've ever seen. And I've enjoyed it so much. - Yeah, that was perfect. Right? You're like, okay. - Hey baby. - Hey sweetie. - I love you. - There's one small problem. - Hi. - I'm Ralph. I'm his brother. We're twins. - Are you parents? - Yeah.

it can tear them apart. I think you're going to let me know that everyone in your family is a midget. Or bring them together. That's Gary Oldman, dude. That's Gary Oldman. Patricia Arquette. Peter Dinklage. Take back and tell. You could have prepared us for this, don't you think? If you embarrass me, I'll never speak to you again, so just get it together. How's that, five and three?

Wait, this trailer's so good. I've never seen the trailer. This is so good. You knocked up this great girl and you didn't tell her that her baby's probably gonna be little. I'm not like you. Oh, you're dropping the real drama. Don't discriminate against us. You said these parties got a little wild. I never expected this. There's sure a lot of midgets around here. You better back, Goldie Hawn. I'm ready for an adult relationship. What is this man doing in your bathroom? Ah! Ah!

This is chaos, dude. A walk down the aisle. He's a very lucky guy. Just hope he's smart enough not to screw it up. Is just a beginning. There'll be rough patches, there's no doubt about it. Canal Plus and Langley Productions proudly present command performances from Kate Beckinsale, Matthew McConaughey, Patricia Arquette, and in the role of a lifetime, I'm done!

Come on! What the fuck? That's real. That's so good! It's so good! I've never seen that! Trailer! You shot that movie? Yes! Real production! Real production day! Showed up to work! No one thinks that's real!

It doesn't look real. It doesn't look real, but damn, that's a good trailer. That goes for it. Oh, it would sell hard as fuck right now. The reason, too, that what takes you over of this is the VO guy goes...

tiptoes like it's not a real vo guy the second half yeah dropped into the serious which is like which is the best on a sketch yes yes when you go now go real grounded on this fucking madness that we and there's like people being thrown and fighting my fucking phone just woke up i love that you're also jewish yeah okay and i have the

I have the dwarf gene in me. Yeah. Okay. So if you have children like Kate and I in the films, I was going to like procreate.

Good chance. Yeah. If she doesn't know, I'm the biggie in the family. Yeah. That's actually what we called, there's a chair where they get out of the house and there's like one big chair. Oh no, that's his. He's the biggie. It's absurd. And Gary Oldman, who's fucking on the roll of a lifetime. The fucking balls of the VO guy to call that his roll of a lifetime. It's so great, dude. So was he just sitting inside the couch and they have baby legs attached to him?

Yeah, I think he's sitting on his... I think he's sitting on his... His knees? His heels back, and then you had the... Or he had just the green... You wear the green sort of back screen where they...

remove it in post and put there but I don't know they had much money to remove it during this production you guys are like straight facing it yeah and you guys think it's a you're not playing it like yeah this is a really good story I mean this is a yeah no we're playing look it was obviously a wild concept yeah the talent it drew the talent it was anarchic it still had some heart to it which maybe I think of the script felt less sentimental than that did um

We knew it was a soap opera, but it felt like so carny for that word to come out. It felt so carny. We're like, this is wild. And Matthew Bright, writer, director, was a good writer, had come up with the concept. And I just was like, this is bringing together two worlds of high comedy. Yeah. But if we straight face this, it can be really funny and also might actually make you drop a tear. Yeah. It's so good. Second half of that trailer.

Pushes that direction. I've shown a hundred people that trailer. I've never seen the trailer. By the way, I'd like to commit to that writer and director. Tom and I will do any movie you want to do, sight unseen, and we'll also pay for it. There you go. But it's got to be as good as that fucking trailer. That trailer's something else. That trailer's really good. Thank you for showing me that. That trailer's really good. That is fucking epic. One of my favorite things in Hollywood stories from people who have done a lot like you

is when people talk about roles they turn down do you have any where you like roles where you're like I turned that shit down and it becomes a like a regret or a you know what biggest damn it for me was probably right as we finished Time to Kill he just moved on L.A. Confidential Director good director

Anyway, excuse me. We had a meeting, and he'd come down, and he'd offer a role. I don't remember if it was the Guy Pearce role or the Russell role. Curtis Hanson? Curtis Hanson, thank you. Curtis Hanson came down, and it offered me a role in that. And I loved that movie. I think it's a great movie. And I said no. Now, mind you, at that time, people were asking me what I wanted to do. I'm like, things are starting to come in an onslaught. I'm like...

It was hard for me to sit down and read a script and go, no, this is really good, and I know why. Everything. It was just coming from like, I'll do whatever I can do. You're getting great stuff. And it's coming, and I'm supposed to be doing it, and I'm getting asked, well, which one of the great stuff do you want to do? I'm like, I write about this a lot in the book. I'm going, yesterday, I didn't have a chance. None of these were even on the table. And now you're telling me, which one of these do you want to do? That's why I packed up and got the hell out of Dodge and went to Peru. Or...

But that's a movie that I love, that I would love to be a part of, and I love that movie. There's always been a rumor that I think James Cameron started, he and I have had a few laughs about this, that I got offered and turned down the role in Titanic. That did not happen. That did not happen. I did not get offered. And as I've said to this day, if I did, I got to find that agent because they bogeyed. No, I did read for it. I was there at the end. Kate Winslet and I read. It was a good read. I walked out of there thinking that I may have had it, but I never got the offer.

So other than that, not really. Other than L.A. Confidential, which was early on in 96-ish, I don't, what movies I see, I'm like, ah, oh, that's good. That would have been fun. That would have been fun, yeah. But none that I'm like, ah, I can't believe I blood. Okay. I bogeyed that one or I blew that one or I didn't see that.

You did something super ballsy. I think it's very rare that somebody can do this, which is you willfully took yourself out of public eye and Hollywood for almost two years. So it's a really ballsy thing. I mean, most people, I think if you're voluntarily doing that in this job, they go, are you crazy? Why would you do that? But you're doing it because you want to, like, well,

figure out who you are more and then you get to basically reinvent yourself because of that. But it's accompanied by some fear too, right? Oh yeah. Okay. Oh hell yeah. A lot of fear. Cause I feel like we've even like, we know people who, you know, disappear sometimes. Um, but, and it's something, I mean, you could make the case that it's for maybe some of the same reasons, but I think, um,

The thing that makes it different about yours is that you're at such a level in choosing to do that. You could have just been like, another movie, another big paycheck, another movie, another movie, another movie. So you must have felt this turmoil to make that choice, right? Yeah. I kept having the 3 a.m. turmoil, unable to sleep. Oh, I remember having this thought. I was like, no, man, I feel like I'm just an entertainer.

I'm not an actor. And I remember my great mentor going, well, first of all, what the fuck's wrong with being an entertainer? It was a great question. Like, what are you, are you boohooing that? I was like, oh, you're right. It's not that, just something else is eating at me, man. And again, my life wildly full at that time. Fall in love with Camilla. She's pregnant with her first child. All I ever wanted to be is a dad and I got one coming, man. I mean, I'm vital, bro.

My head and loins and heart and gut are all in sync. My bets, I'm tripling down on them and they're like winning. But in my career, I'm going back and doing this thing, romantic comedies, that I had owned that lane at that time. And they were fun and they paid well. But I'm like, they feel like more different, in a wrong kind of vacation from my life. It's like I needed more resistance. In real life, I'm dealing with great drama, great comedy.

And work, I'm dealing with, yep, step right up. I can knock this out. I can do this tomorrow. Fine. Can I dig deeper to find a different... No, these things, these rom-coms have a certain frequency you need to be on. You need to bounce from cloud to cloud to cloud. If you drop the anchor, you can sink them. Yeah. No, don't go there. And that frequency that those were were just...

Not getting me off. I didn't feel like I was having an experience. Could you get a role that would have been fulfilling at that time? Could you have been like, well, I want to do this thing? Right. And they'd have been like, sure. Or would they be like, we don't want you to do that. No, they let me know, bro, stay in your lane. Stay over there. Really? I'd already done a couple. Tried. Where...

If they were in more of the dramatic side or outside of romantic comedy genre, the pay took a major pay cut. And then those didn't do well, box office wise. So they weren't going, please do this again. Whether you did well or not, Chops, you're leading the charge over here on rom-coms and you're nailing them. They cost us 35. They're coming back at 60. We're making good money and you're good at them and the people like them. So nothing wrong with that. Ben loved it.

I needed some resistance. So I self-imposed after many long talks, many late nights, many tears, many prayers, made a pact with my wife. She's great. She's a real baller this way. She was like, okay, I see what this means to you. But do you understand if we're going to do this, again, it's going to get rocky. And

You can't, we can't, there's no going back. We have to, it's committed. I was like, yeah, it's, we have to commit. It's commit the whole way. No flinching, no two-stepping, no going, stepping out. Oh, I think I'm coming back. Right. Day's going to get long. She knows me. It's like that bottle's going to look better earlier in the day. What'd you, what do you, what'd you, I know you need to accomplish for significance, but

We're going to have to trust this. And I was like, I'm trusting no matter how long it goes. She goes, it could be dry for a while. And it was. It was dry for a long time. And all those things did happen. The fact that I've got the looking forward to a son coming. The fact that I'm bored out of my mind, which is a great thing to be because you've got to

work some tools in your nugget that you don't have to work when everything's right there for you. The fact that I'm not on the beach in Malibu shirtless and my daily life there looks like turn the page into the romantic comedy that you go see in the theater the next night. They were kind of merged into one at that point when I removed myself. The fact that I was back home, the fact that we had a family, not tragedy, but a big crisis in my family that I needed to tend to, that sobers you up.

You know what I mean? Where you get like, that I had things that I knew were more ultimately existentially more important than my acting career. Kind of put that on the side. Go along, got tempted with the $8 million offer that turned into a $14.5 million offer. As I talk about, you know, not two-stepping, as I said, did I two-step enough to say when it got to 14.5, let me read that sumbitch again? Yes, I did. Yeah.

I ain't that pure. Still said no, though. Yeah. All right. The fact that saying no to that, do I believe that sent a little invisible lightning bolt through Hollywood going, this fucker's not bluffing. Yeah. He's serious. Who turns that shit down? What's he up to? Someone does that. You know? A girl in a relationship, whatever. You're like, what are they up to? You kind of become more attractive. Yeah. Novel. What are they up to? They got something going on. They're not just, they didn't just step out and waft.

they're on a line of something where they're going or what they're holding out for. And that's what I was doing. I was kind of on the picket line. I was kind of holding out. And what was the first one? I think it was Lincoln Lawyer. And that was a big success. That worked out really good. Yeah. And it was Killer Joe. And then it was Paperboy. And then Mud. Mud came. No, Mud came. Do you know another thing?

We named Ellis from Mudd. Are you serious? Oh, yeah. Yeah, my first son's name is Ellis. Right on. We were watching that movie while my wife was pregnant. And it was one of those movies, we probably don't know anything about it. Yeah. And it was like this sweet little kid. And it was like a real Southern way of like, Ellis. And then when it came time to name him, we both were like, I love that name, Ellis. It was from Mudd.

It's my favorite movie I've done. Really? Really. It's a really beautiful movie. It's a beautiful movie. It's the movie that my dad, when I was 12, would have come to me and said, hey, buddy, you seen this movie? And I'd have gone, no, sir. And he'd have gone, oh, we got to watch together. It's a good one. Yeah. And it's, I have a real, plus that,

The tree house that I built as a kid that's in that book was my boat in a tree that was in mud. The fantasy, the magic reality through a child's eyes. And then the aristocrat of the heart, the love story that mud has with Jupiter, Juniper. Yeah, it's a really cool movie. When I read your book, sometimes when people write books, there are little things that I can't stop noticing. You love catch up.

I love ketchup. I put ketchup on my ketchup. And I love ketchup. Like, I only eat meatloaf to eat ketchup. Right. I think I fell in love with ketchup first. Yeah. With the ketchup. I had to grow to love ketchup. And then once I realized what it was doing to me, I went, wow, you're expanding my horizons. I didn't know that I could enjoy salt and sweet at the same time. All in one. And let's admit it. Can we say it online? Can we say it like Heinz's?

Got the monopoly on fucking ketchup. It's the fucking now. Get the Del Monte out of here, guys. I don't need the fucking antibiotic. No, no, no. I want the fucking pines with the shit in it. What's the craziest thing you put ketchup on? Whatever not put ketchup on. I mean.

Scrambled eggs is not crazy. It's great. Scrambled eggs. It makes scrambled eggs. It makes scrambled eggs. Guy Fieri would like fucking ketchup with eggs with ketchup on them. Yeah. So, I mean, I put it on. We had one throw up vegetable in our household. We had one vegetable you didn't have to eat. And mine was boiled squash. Mama boiled everything. She was not a good cook. Ma, I know you're out there in 92. You were not a good cook. Boiled squash. And that's how I got it. But you had to eat it. Yeah.

Now that was the one, I'm sorry, the one I didn't have to eat, but then you had to eat everything else. So the boiled okra, nobody in the family liked it, but man, that's where ketchup became my favorite because I got to drown that shit. And I remember sitting there in our family, if you didn't finish it, you finally had to go to bed at dinner time. And then the next morning it was on the breakfast plate. Oh, wow. And if you were late for school, you got the demerit, then it just went back to sort of structure. So now what's your punishment for being late for school?

So you're like, oh man, ketchup was my friend. Get over things, to swallow things, and also just to... And it's where the ketchup is. I love ketchup on a burger, but what's the... It's best to dip it...

So the ketchup's the first thing to hit the palate. You don't want the ketchup. If you put the ketchup on top of the burger, it falls off the sides. Right. You want to dip it so that it's walking. It is the pimp walking the prostitutes into the party. Yeah. And there's a whole bunch behind him, but he does the intro. Dude, black-eyed peas, I cannot eat. Black-eyed peas with ketchup, I fucking love them. I'll tell you, I'm going to tell you one even further. If I'm drinking in the morning at an airport, and I don't feel like drinking, but I have to because I've got to get on the plane. Okay.

I'll take ketchup, smear it on my hand, let it dry, and then just slowly just... Yeah, that's it. Get down. Like on the flight later? On the fucking flight. Just give it a lick? Just a little...

Yeah. Just to have a buddy there. Just a reminder to have a treat. Just to have a friend right there. That's good, man. Fuck, I'm never going to eat ketchup and not think about you. I don't know. Next time I have ketchup, I'm going to not be able to not think about you licking on your hand. That's good, man. A little K-bump. I like that, yeah. Excuse me. Let me take a hit. Who doesn't like you? I mean, you're like the coolest dude in the world.

And he loves ketchup, man. My buddy actually, Marcus Stowers, made me a t-shirt, a red t-shirt in white, writing it and said, I put ketchup on my ketchup. Yeah. Heinz the one. Viva la ketchup. Cheers to that. People have tried to compete, right? There's so many people. I think it was Malcolm Gladwell that wrote a whole essay about this, about how...

There's this really competitive space for ketchup, but it doesn't fucking matter because Heinz just dominates. Dominates. There's like 50 other brands. I don't even know them. No one does. This is how we busted my mom. Mom would always, to save money, let's go to peanut butter. Peter Pan was the one. Yeah. For me, right? Heinz ketchup. We'd finish and we'd come back to dinner and all of a sudden, next night, you'd be at the end the night before.

And the next night, I'd be full, and you'd pour it, and it'd just pour out of the water. You're like, mom, bullshit. This is not. Yes, it is. And I'm like, no, it's not. She did what, like, a cheap diner does. She put the straight tomato soup in there, whatever. And she did the same thing with peanut butter for a while. And we're like, this is not peanut butter. This is...

Your local. Yeah, the bullshit knockoff. And we bust her every time on it. My favorite thing that I've got is I don't like A1 sauce on steak. I like it without anything. But I love A1 sauce on rice. Like when the rice sucks up A1. I bet you like, it's the Jamaican prickly, what's that Jamaican? It's a dark sauce like A1. It's Jamaican. Pick a pepper. You like pick a pepper? I don't think I do. If you like A1, you probably like pick a pepper.

Turn them on to Pickle Pepper. Try Pickle Pepper. Yeah, give me another tequila. Hey, I also like mustards. I'm a big mustard guy, but I'm really Asian mustards. I need my nose to feel it. I like hot mustards. Asian? More than that English mustard? We have that tight, tight, tight little white, little teaspoon of that. Coleman's is like the best English mustards, but Asian mustards are stronger than English mustards. Where's Asian mustards between English mustards and wasabi?

Closer to wasabi. Closer to wasabi. And Chinese, specifically, the Chinese mustard sauce is one of my favorites. Because that has... All right. You put that... That opens things up. Yeah. Mentally. You're like, am I fucking breathing through my eyes? Yeah. It opens everything up. I like Chinese mustard. I've been using wasabi pretty liberally lately. I do, too. I like wasabi. To mix up even with a tuna fish salad. I love tuna fish salad. I'm a tuna fish salad mastermaker. Really? Yeah. Every Sunday night, clean out the fridge, mashito style, going to make a badass tuna fish.

So do you put, so when, explain your tuna fish to me because my wife's a redneck and so she has pickle jalapenos, candied jalapenos in her tuna fish. Yeah. Okay, wait, I want to hear yours. Well, it's a long list of all kinds of things. I mean, it starts with the base, you get your good tuna. Yeah. Um,

Next, you've got to watch how much lemon and vinegar you add, because if you add the mayo mixed with wasabi... Oh, shut the fuck up! I didn't even think about putting wasabi into my fucking tuna fish! Whip it up, a little light green.

Get that in there on the tuna. Because if you put, whatever you put on the tuna first is going to soak it up. You're blowing my mind right now. You're blowing my mind. It's like the first time someone told me how to finger someone and I didn't know that you weren't just supposed to stick it in and leave it there. And I go, oh yeah, it would make sense to move it around. You're telling me tuna fish. It is like that. Tuna fish. If I would get high-end tuna, of course I'd put wasabi on it. Why wouldn't I put it on my tuna fish? I know, it's a good idea. Right?

We fucked this interview up. We should have been talking about this the whole time. Get a base. Yeah. And then all the rest of the stuff from the chopped red onions or the dill pickled gherkins. I'll finally slice the dill pickled gherkins. There's a jalapeno product now that they... It's been seared in hot oil, so it's crispy jalapeno chips to give it a little crunch. I come in with...

To balance that out, at the end, I do go. I'll go with some apple for some sweetness, a touch of agave to balance out that wasabi here. Yeah, yeah. And at the end, I do go, oh, man, I always have corn in there. I always got corn. Really? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And then at the end, I'll go some frozen green peas. Oh.

And then, as you know, as every redneck knows, is it better right then or is it better covered after you put it in the fridge the next day? It's all coagulated. All the tastes are right. You're sitting there now. I've hit the home run. So it sat in there. Marinating, basically, yeah. Now do you add any ketchup?

Oh, yeah, he did. Well, then I pull out extra pickles because I love to dip my pickle, take a bite of tuna, bite the pickle with the Heinz ketchup on the end of the pickle. The day after A Time to Kill, you went to the promenade and you had a tuna fish sandwich with ketchup on it. And all I heard was, I got to try ketchup on a tuna fish sandwich. That's all I heard. Yeah, man. Okay, real quick. Steak. What cut do you eat? One and five eighths inch American Wagyu ribeye.

Rib-eye's the steak. That's the good one. Rib-eye's the steak. Rib-eye's the steak. Admit it or not, if we're not talking about, oh, I want to eat lean, I know I have my elk, I do fillet. How do you have it cooked? Well, there are different ways. So I go one and five eighth inch, which means it's a big, thick piece of meat, which means I don't take it to the oven to ever bake it to get the middle cooked. I do like to sear it. I either go on the grill. Yeah. I mean, if I can get that green egg to sit there and hold at 455.

So tall. Then I'm, then I'm enclosed that thing and trust it. Beautiful. Yeah. Other times where we're just inside and I'm time for that. I'm a big 16 inch black skillet, oil, butter, cast iron, get that baby height and, and, and sear that and flip some oils and butter on top of that thing. Cause I just learned this, that that butter doesn't Brown. If you put it in early with the oil.

And then obviously that old trick that everyone forgets, let that son of a bitch sit for as long as you cooked it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's got to settle. Yeah. And all those tendons have to just kind of relax. And the juices kind of go absorb it back in. And also, do you all know this one? This may be obvious, but it's the cook it at room temperature. You can't pull it out of the fridge. Can you pull it right out of the fridge? Yeah, no, no. You got to let it sit. You got to let it sit, get back to room temperature. That's a good one. And all those pores open up. So one and five eighth inch American Wagyu ribeye. As the Austin guy...

like the OG Austin guy, favorite barbecue spot? - Jeez, right, that's like a religion around here. I mean, look man, I've never tasted any brisket I like better than Franklin's.

Have you had the steak over at Lambert's? No. I won't be doing that tonight. Taste that dirty little brown sugar top, son of a bitch. Oh, it's a dirty little dog. It's good. Yeah. The rib eye over there. Taste it. Make you want to go. Peter, please get us reservations for tonight. And they're not afraid of salt. No. Oh, neither. I'm on blood pressure medicine. I mean, come on. It's serious. Yeah.

Look, the barbecue I've had. I mean, there's so much good. Yeah, it's so good. I'm not a barbecue nerd. I'm not religious about it. Right. I've had great barbecue in many places. But look, Franklin's brisket, what he figured out. Yes, it's incredible. Walk away. Yeah. Drop your mic. That Opie's jalapeno cream corn with the jalapeno sausage. Take the chunk of sausage, fork it, dunk it in the Opie's.

Cream of corn and jalapeno. Then eat it. That's one of the top three bites I've ever had in my life. These are good wrecks, man. Good wrecks.

I'm drinking your tequila tomorrow morning. Yeah, man. Saturday morning. Hey, that's- I am too. Are you going to try our vodka? Yeah. Hey, can we bring another glass? We launched this vodka. I love- You and your wife did the smartest thing. For Halloween, you both dressed up- For osos. For the bears. For osos. Yeah. Bears. Bears. The bears. Two bears. You guys dressed up as bottles of your tequila for Halloween. I thought that was so cool. I was like, God damn it. Here's what the inspiration that was.

I was going through some old scrapbooks, and there was a picture of my mom and dad at Halloween. And they had taken these. She was in glad trash bags taped up, and it said M&M's with tape on it. Plain. I fucking love your parents. M&M's with nuts. I love your parents. What percentage of your dad are you, and what percentage of your mom are you? Out of 100%. Oh.

Because I feel like we all think you're your dad. I kind of, after reading your book, feel like you're... I'm a whole lot more my mom than I realize. And that's a happy trail for me to recognize and learn along the way. Look, my mom, I'm still aspiring to understand and be some things that she is. My mom is like real grade A proof in the value of denial if you truly commit to it.

And she commits to it. Not intellectually talks herself into it and then commits. No. Bam. That's what, I don't have cancer. Well, mom, you do. No, I don't. She's not doing an intellectual trick. I do not. Okay. Well, then would you take this pill anyway? Okay. But I don't have it. Life. I don't like you. I don't like whatever. You don't like someone. Nope. Boom. Out of my life. Mom, I mean, do you want to let him down easy? No. Why do I want to waste any time? No. Not for me. I didn't. No.

But she does. I mean, I don't know if I wrote about it. I've shared this many times. I went to this, the way, her ability to forgive herself or actually not even feel guilty about anything in the first place to forgive herself about is amazing. And this is not a shallow woman. This is a woman who, 92, mom, what's the secret? Well, I can't imagine not being here.

Walk off. Okay. And it's not a line. It's not a Hallmark card. It's not an intellectual choice she's making to say, oh, I want to think positively. Uh-uh. She's beyond that to where it's a full-on capacity. That's her identity. Yes is her favorite word. I really respect the side of your mom because there is a thing. It's like, yeah.

Why do I have to subscribe by everyone else's rules? I'll just live my own life. And the ability to forgive herself is fascinating. I wish I had that. Dude, I went to her because she pulls wild ass stunts. Wild stunts. My brother's playing golf one day after my father passed away and the four older men on the other fairway are like, hey, congratulations, Pat. Congratulations on you and your mom and CJ getting married. My brother's like, what?

I didn't get married. They're like, oh, yeah, anyway, sorry. You tell them that. Mom, what'd you do? What are you talking about? Mom, what'd you do? What's it say here about you and Jack getting married? Oh, that. Mom, what'd you do? Well, first, I didn't think you'd find out, but here's what we did. Look, the country club dues are $400 a month if you're just together, but they're only $250 a month if you're married. So we just told them we were married. Mom! Mom!

Come on. And she'll cry, say I'm sorry, and then boom, forget about it. To save $150. To have told everybody at the country club that they were married. To save $150 a month. Just like badass like that. And then he'll sit there and cry, say I'm sorry. Not a shallow woman at all, but just bam. So what part of you is your dad? I identify. I just said that to the boys outside. Explain what your dad said. You were flexing. Ask for show.

Makes all the girls scream, gets you on TV. That's for dough. Puts the roof over our head, food on the plate, takes care of business. It's a work muscle. Work ethic was a big thing to him. Don't half-ass it. If you're gonna do it, man, do it. And if you can't, don't say can't. If you're having trouble, ask for help. But don't sit there and say I can't, because there's a solution. That's a good lesson.

His dad, your dad, his dad, our dad, we all have the same dads. All have the same dads. And I think we all look at our dads the exact same way. I was saying this to Tommy earlier. Hey, to our dads. To our dads. Yeah, to dads, man. Hey, and to more Govans out there, because there's no better. You got kids? Two. And you got kids. Dude, this is a...

If more of dads, the dads out there uniting a toast here and say, can we be as good of a dad as we can be? Good of a father? This whole planet's going to be looking good for all of us, man. A lot better. Amen. What do you think? Oh, that's nice and easy. It's vodka. I don't drink much vodka. Not a lot of men do. But a little on the backside kind of opens up. Yeah. Yeah.

Let me tell you why we created a vodka. This is when I started drinking vodka. I was sitting on a plane next to a gorgeous man, beautiful man, jawbones, everything, cheekbones. It was early, and I said, I'll take a Heineken from the flight attendant. He said, I think I might drink two. I'm going to get a double Tito's and soda. I said, vodka? He goes, it's in my contract. I said, contract? He goes, I'm a male model. It's the only thing I'm allowed to drink. It doesn't bloat you. It keeps you healthy. And I went, hmm.

I said, uh, mix that Heineken. I think I'll take a double Tito's and soda. And I've been a vodka drinker now for 15 years. And look at you. It's in his contract. I walked in, he was doing a Speedo shoot. It's in his contract. It's in my contract. It's in the contract. Although this tequila is phenomenal. Yeah. And it's, and I'm telling you, man, you guys, I say marketing, but your representation of it. I think, I don't think you're a marketing guy. I think you're just, this is what I do. This is what I'm into. It's just been so genuine and authentic. And it's like, out of all these people

tequilas that you've seen show up at The Rock or whatever. I go, I don't know, for some reason I want to drink what he drinks. Well, let me ask you this because, look, you can sell snake oil with a good marketing campaign. You can get away with shit. You can put lipstick on the donkey and call it a thoroughbred and people will go bet on it in the race. Yeah.

But we said, look, let's make some real good fucking juice first. We're serious about our tequila. Let's make some really good juice first. Let's be formal about that process, which took two years and 47 tasters. But once we got that, we said, boom, circus. Now let's have some freaking fun. People have been talking real snooty up nosy about tequila for a long time. Now let's have some fun. Panthalones, great name. Oh, I can run with that. Oh, what can you do with your pants off? Pixels will be our friend. Mm.

The pixels covering our midsection are our joke. And they're a running joke. They're like the beep, mother beeper. They're like the beep. You laugh. Ah, I think they cussed right there. Ah, I think they're naked under there. And we can run with that forever. I also think, though, and ask me this. Curious if I'm over giving this too much justice. Do you think it would have worked if I'd have been with anyone other than my wife? No. No. It's all about the right partnership.

A thousand percent. Right? Yeah. Because there's a good, clean fun of it that whatever you know about Camilla and I, her and I married, we got kids. It's like, all right. There's a certain demographic, I think, if it had been me and, I don't know, another actress, there's a certain demographic that would have been like, no, I'm not. This is too much of a stunt. I don't want to think that those two are naked in front of each other. Yeah. Yeah. You know? It seems very homegrown.

It doesn't seem like you're, I know it's not a money grab for you because you don't need money. So like, that's why I think it's cool. You know, and there's an elusiveness to your wife. I know she's on Instagram, but she's not like out there telling her story and trying to get views. And there's also the idea that this is the chick that Matthew McConaughey was like, hey, don't leave. Please stay. Fucking crazy. Yeah, man.

My wife kind of dug her way in. Your story is the same here. I saw this guy, and I was like, don't leave. And so that's why we started Porosus. You don't get a lot of friends. Who's your best friend? Who's my best friend? Great question. That's two great questions I got in this interview. You got to take it to the third. He's so happy right now. Who's my best friend? Probably Camilla, I'm happy to say. I mean, I got some really close friends, and I don't have –

a best friend like i had best friend in high school best friend in college best friend early part of my career i mean as far as the you know the person that i share with and that sees me express myself and sits here and comes to me and pops me and gut checks me on places where maybe i'm trying to get away with something that she's like no no no that ain't gonna fly or lets me know hey man

Here's a glass of pantalones, man. Be easy on yourself for a second. She walks a good line with that. She's great about next days after the party. She's great about this. You know, everyone goes to the weekend wedding in Mexico, and it's Friday, Saturday night's the wedding, and then Sunday, everyone gets out of there, shading their eyes to make it to work on Monday morning. She's great about that.

Let's make sure that we have Monday open and the first thing on Tuesday is after 2 p.m. And we're going to not leave until Monday afternoon. So while everyone rushes out, we're going to merge out. Have a beer by the pool.

Sit back there today, grab another sign, have another cocktail that night, eat a good meal. She's really great about the soft landings. Are you trying to sell us on your wife? Jesus Christ, that was amazing. Let us pitch our wives. She's really good about that. My wife's like, it's 7 a.m. flight.

You've got a lot in your plate. What accent am I doing? Sorry, and I've got some other friends. I've got some real good, I have some girls I'm good friends with, but I have a lot of good male friends. And I've been seeking elders. I found myself in the last eight years. Mentors.

Older men that have done it well, held their stuff together, been about themselves. We should get some mentors. No, it's invaluable. You know what I mean? When you go, it takes a bit of modesty. You have to humble yourself to go, hey, I would like to learn something from you. You see, the thing is that older people, what you realize the most when you spend time with anybody much older is they just...

want to matter still. And when you ask somebody who's older their advice on something, man, they come alive. They love it. They love having to share and teach. I think it's like interacting with older people is fantastic. I'm with you, man. It reminds me of another, this is not a trick, but it's a good reminder. And it's a simple one that I think is a really good one, has been in my life.

In this world where so many of our relationships, whether it is for us or not, it is for the other, transactional. To sit there every month, and I've tried to do this, is reach out to people. It's just a five-minute howdy, and I don't ask for nothing. And I've noticed that it's almost like they go, well, what do you? Nothing. Don't need anything.

It can go a long way. Yeah. And it's a quick little hit. It's not a deep, long thing. It's just a quick little hit for nothing at all, just checking in. It's the fucking Joey Diaz. Joey Diaz is one of the best dudes in the world. Joey Diaz is a comedian friend of ours, and part of his thing is like weekly or biweekly,

you'll see the call and you know you answer it he's an old school dude he doesn't text you he goes if you send me another text I'll break your fucking fingers and you're like okay so he calls and you answer and he goes what's going on what's up cocksucker what's up hey you're like uh not much he's like

How's the wife? How's the kids? This is Joey Diaz. Joey Diaz. And you go, oh, everything's good. And he's like, I'm checking in. You good? And you go, yeah. And then you're kind of the same thing. You're like, what's up? And he's like, just remember, don't forget about me. I love you. Bingo. Yeah. It's a check-in. He just checks in. It ain't going to be long. No. You ain't going to go take a long walk, go sit down. And it's just a...

He won't let it go long. That's the thing. He's just like, all right, stop with the fucking talking. And he hangs up. But he checks in on you. And you always get, you know what? The thing is, you get like a little dopamine serotonin bump. You're like, that was great. Joey Diaz just checked in on me. So it's a nice feeling. Yeah, man. And you've worked with so many wild people that like fun. Like people that I go, I'd love to know that. Like, I think Sandra Bullock's the baddest motherfucker in town. I think she's so cool. I think...

Fucking Cole Hauser. He has one of the baddest motherfuckers in town. I'll tell you about it. I even think back to, can I tell you who I was obsessed with in Days Infused? It was Sasha.

Sasha. Yeah. It's great. I go, where the fuck? I want more of that guy in my life. He's writing. He's making a living writing scripts. For real? Yeah. He's writing scripts that are being made by major studios. So he found a good... I met with him. It's been a couple years, but I think he's doing... When I talked to him, he's doing well. He was such a scene stealer. Yeah. He was such a scene stealer. I fucking loved him. Yeah, man. That movie was so impressive. I must have watched it a million times. Everything you've done.

I know we got to get you out of here. We do. You are a legend. And the idea that we got to sit with you for an hour and a half. It was really awesome. Just pick your brain. Thank you for coming. Appreciate it. I hope we get to do it some other time, work together in some way. It was fantastic. Don't forget, Greenlights hits shelves in paperback tomorrow. You can get Pantalones, the delicious multiple styles Pantalones. I'm telling you right now, if you're a young man, I just say young man because that's what I think. This is the book you need. This will, well,

We'll walk you, you're just going to see, it's not a self-help book. It's a story of a dude who did it his way and did it differently than everyone else and turned out on top. And it's a great roadmap for the way to look at life. Maybe not live your life the same way, but look at life and go, fuck yeah, man, I need to get off the road. I need to get out of town. I need to go do something different. I got to roll the dice a little bit. You're a legend, brother. I appreciate it. Thank you very much. And again, it's Matthew McConaughey and it's spelled MCC.

O-N-A-U-G-H-E-Y. I've got to spell it twice for the girl at the party, though, right? How do you spell that? All right. Thanks a lot, man. We'll see you guys next time. Appreciate it. Bert and Tom, Tom and Bert. One goes topless while the other wears a shirt. Tom tells stories and Bert's the machine. There's not a chance in hell that they'll keep it clean. Here's what we call Two Bears, One Cave.