The Whale
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Okay, you say, I want some breakfast. Your so-called boyfriend says, we got eggs in the fridge. Obviously, when you say breakfast, you mean McDonald's. Definitely a side-eye situation. Bring home the bacon, steak patty, or others with a BOGO for $1 breakfast. Only in the app. Limited time only at participating McDonald's. Valid once a day. Must opt into rewards. Visit McDApp for details. Ba-da-ba-ba-ba.

I'm Jenna Fisher. And I'm Angela Kinsey. We were on The Office together. And we're best friends. And now we're doing the Ultimate Office Rewatch Podcast just for you. Each week, we will break down an episode of The Office and give exclusive behind-the-scenes stories that only two people who were there can tell you. We're The Office Ladies. Hi there. Every time I hear our little opening intro and I hear Creed playing, it makes me happy. Me too. So just starting with that.

It's a nice way to start a moment, a day, a podcast for sure. For sure. Our podcast for sure. Well, yes, that for sure. You want to hear what we're talking about today? Oh, I do. I hope it's not a surprise to you. I hope not. It is The Whale. It is season nine, episode seven, written by Carrie Kemper and directed by Rodman Flender. Do you remember Rodman? I do. He was so fun. So fun. And I remember being like, Rodman, come back.

I know. He's directed a ton of television, and he has a very famous nephew, Timothy Chalamet. Can you believe it? Yeah. We didn't realize that back then. No. But Timothy Chalamet wasn't Timothy Chalamet back then. I know. Rodman, we would be asking for all the deets on your nephew. What a talent. Like the annoying aunts. We would. Yes. We would be like, what project is he in now?

Now, what's he up to? I noticed he changed his hair and I like it. I think it frames his face nicely. Well, I love his fashion on the red carpet. Yes, he takes chances and he sticks with it. We love him, Rodman. We love him. Rodman's listening to this right now and he's like, thank God. Oh my gosh. All right, here is your summary.

Dwight is tasked with securing a new client, so the ladies in the office attempt to teach him how to sell to women. Yeah. Because this new client is a woman. That's all we know about her at first. Yeah. A woman. Oscar is going to help Angela investigate her hunch that the senator might be having an affair.

And finally, Jim's telecommuting is not quite working out. No. He's trying to take a phone call. This reminds me of trying to have a private conversation when you have a house full of kids. You like duck into nooks and crannies, but everyone still finds you. Yeah. Yeah. We got a lot of mail about that particular storyline. I can't wait for us to discuss. Ooh, good.

All right. Fast fact number one. This episode was written by Keri Kemper, who is the sister of Ellie Kemper. And Keri also plays Jan's assistant, Molly. I thought she did so great as Molly. So good. I want to know more about Molly. Well, I reached out to Keri to ask her some questions about this episode, and I

I just love her. I mean, I love these Kemper gals. I know. They're such good gals. Carrie told me that the original pitch for this episode was very different from the final script. It was originally called Land Jan. They knew that they were going to have Jan come back and that she was going to be someone we were pitching to.

And in the original pitch, Pam comes into work at the beginning of the day, and she is so bummed because she ran into Jan at the grocery store and promised to go to lunch with her. But then Pam realizes that if she makes Dwight go with her, that Jan will probably end the lunch early because Jan hates Dwight. So Dwight and Pam go to lunch with Jan, and while they're there, they realize that she wants to...

Give them her business. Okay. And they start competing for who can sell Jan more paper, and it becomes very clear that Dwight is horrible at selling to women. Okay.

So Carrie said that Greg read the pitch and he zeroed in on one detail, which was that Dwight is terrible at selling to women. And Greg said, that's your story. That's what it should be. And also, Jan should be a surprise. It should be a reveal. I 100% agree. This is the genius of Greg, right? I know, that he could look at that pitch and then find the two things that were going to make it zing. Yes. So they changed the title to The Whale, and here we are.

Carrie also said that the Oscar Angela Senator storyline was an absolute dream. She said the minute the writers pitched that and decided that that was going to be the storyline for this season, the whole story just kind of wrote itself.

I have been so excited to get to these episodes because of my whole entire time on The Office. I know I had amazing scenes with Rain, and we got to play out the Dwight and Angela romance, but these scenes with Oscar are some of my absolute favorites, and it's

You know, you guys remember Oscar and I met doing sketch comedy like, oh my gosh, 20 years ago. And to be able to do these scenes with him was just pure joy. We were giddy. It was so fun. Carrie said that the two of you together is absolute magic. And she said that she felt like this particular beat of the story of you guys watching this yoga class, she said she felt like

She like won the lottery because this was her particular favorite beat of the storyline and she got it. Thanks, Carrie. I know. Well, you know, I also asked Carrie how she got her job on The Office because we got a lot of mail. People were curious if Ellie had anything to do with it.

And Carrie said that Ellie kind of did, that Ellie had been on the show for about a year and she was sitting with Claire Scanlon one day and Claire told her that Greg and Paul were setting some meetings for new potential female writers for season seven. And Ellie said, my sister is a TV writer. But the thing was, was that Carrie was an aspiring TV writer. She'd never actually had a job writing for television. She

She had been the editor of her college humor magazine, but she was at the very beginning of her career. But she had three spec scripts. Do people know what spec scripts are? I think we've shared about it. They're like a script that you write as a sample of your work, of what you can do. Yeah. So you'll pick a show that's already on television, and then you'll write an episode of it. So she had written spec scripts of the Sarah Silverman program. She did one for 30 Rock, and she did one for Modern Family. Okay.

And so Claire agreed to pass on her Modern Family spec script to Paul. And Paul read it, and he called her in. He loved it. He called her in for a meeting. And Carrie was like, oh, he's just being nice because my sister's on the show. And listen to what her mom said. I love their mom. Her mom said, do you think he has time to be nice?

Yeah, that's great. This is a real meeting. You own it. You got yourself in the door with this good script. Good momming. I like that. Yeah.

So, Carrie went to the meeting, and she said after the meeting, he asked for another writing sample. So, she sent him a one-act play that she had written, and she got hired a week later. That's such a great story. She said The Office was her favorite TV show. It was her first job writing on television. But, you know, she has gone on to write on some of, seriously, the best stuff on TV. Silicon Valley. Oh, man. Beef. Oh, yeah.

the rehearsal, and she's currently co-executive producer of The Curse, which is now streaming on Paramount+. There you go. I love that story. I also just love the bond of sisterhood, that Ellie, without any hesitation, was like, my sister's a writer. Yeah. So great. I know. All the women in that family helped Carrie, right? Yes. Like, have the courage, the confidence, and the boost. The opportunity. I love it. All right. Fast fact number two.

Another big storyline in this episode, which I failed to mention in my summary, is that all the men in the office are growing mustaches. Yes, they are. Do you say mustache or moose-tache? Who says moose-tache? I realized... That's like a Muppet. A Muppet says moose-tache. Is that from Sesame Street? No, that's how I...

Is that how you say mustache as one of your animals? Yes. That's how Sonny says mustache. Okay, you guys know. Because he has a little white mustache. Jenna does the voices of her pets. We all do. That's why I was like, I almost said mustache. And then as I said it out loud, I realized no one says that. Just Sonny. Just Sonny. Sonny would say, oh my God, you have a really nice mustache. And you're a made-up voice for him. Yeah. Anyway. All right. Okay.

So all the men in the office are growing mustaches for Movember. Movember is an annual event. Every November, men grow a mustache to help raise awareness for men's health issues like prostate cancer.

And a lot of people do fundraisers in conjunction with growing their mustache. We got a fan letter from Keith S. in Los Angeles who said, I work for Movember, and I worked there in 2012 when this episode was written, and I would love to answer any questions anyone may have about Movember or how we worked with the writers to make sure there was an accurate representation of our organization. Way to go, Keith. I love that you wrote that.

He said he loves the podcast and he's been waiting for this episode. So we did reach out to Keith. And here's what he said. He said the writing staff reached out and let them know that they were going to use Movember in a storyline, but they didn't share the script.

But they checked to make sure that they were allowed to use it in the way they were using it and wanted to make sure that they got it accurate. He also heard that some of the writers had participated in Movember. And I remember that, Ange. I do, too. So he said they were just thrilled that the office...

talked about Movember correctly, and it was such a great public platform. He said the whole team had a watch party to watch the episode, and he said they still share a GIF of Toby saying, smile if you love men's prostates on Slack. Keith said the writers also sent over a cookie bouquet of mustache and office-themed cookies when the episode aired.

I love that. Isn't that so sweet? Mm-hmm. Keith did want to say that Movember has come a long way since the whale. He said they always focused on prostate and testicular cancer, but they now also raise awareness and funds for men's mental health and suicide prevention. He said that since 2003, they have built a global men's health movement funding more than 1,300 projects.

And he said our listeners can learn more or donate at Movember.com. Keith, I will put that in our stories with the swipe up. And thanks so much for writing in. Yeah, thank you, Keith. Oh, one more thing. He did want to give a shout out to Lisa, Abby, and Caitlin for helping him with all these details. Awesome. All right. Fast fact number three. I'm very excited, everyone, because Angela has asked for fast fact number three.

And we are now going to have a mailbag moment with Angela Kinsey. A mailbag moment. By the way, Cody, who works on Office Ladies, told us there's even more mail.

that we need to go through. There's been even more. A new pile. A new stack of mail. Or as Sonny would say, a pall. A pall of mall. Well, this letter is from Jacqueline. And Jacqueline, the envelope was a little bent in the corner, but I think you're from Canada. Jacqueline S. from Canada. I was trying to see the postage stamp.

And I just loved this letter, Jenna, and I wanted to share it. Jacqueline wrote in and said, Dear Jenna and Angela, my husband introduced me to the office during the pandemic, and it took about five minutes before I was hooked. While COVID was raging on and everything seemed to be in a constant state of flux and the unknown, the office became my safe place, and I quickly binged the entire series before going back and watching favorite episodes again and again. Just when I thought I couldn't love anything more, I found the Office Ladies podcast.

While it feels odd to thank you when we have never properly met, having listened to the entire podcast twice already. Wow. I know. I feel like we are friends. I have spent countless hours listening to the two of you banter back and forth. And because you share so much of yourselves each week, it's easy to forget you are not my real life friends. Just having a girl chat, sharing updates about your week.

I wanted to share how much your podcast means to me. You've made me laugh, cry, think, and have spurred many a deep dive. All right. I know. I love that. She goes on to say that she had a few years of real big life transitions. She had her first baby. She went on maternity leave, went back to work. They renovated their house. Her father was diagnosed with cancer. And then she became pregnant with their second baby. And she writes this. While most of the time life can feel a little crazy, your podcast is a constant.

I listened to it while I breastfed, when I couldn't sleep, while I cooked and cleaned, when I was in the car, when I was crying and needed a distraction, and when I wanted a laugh. My female friendships are so important to me. And while I really do love The Office, it is now your podcast that I keep coming back to. To me, it is a celebration of female friendships and relationships, something that the world needs more of. Thank you for the love and energy and care you put into it each and every week.

Jacqueline, your letter. Thank you so much for taking the time to write that letter. That was very touching to me. And wow, you have been through a lot in the last couple of years. And we're happy to be there with you through all of it, in your ear, keeping you company, keeping you distracted, whatever we can do. Spurring on a deep dive. Yes. And you know, this is that

Making the podcast is that same touchstone for me. Coming in here each week and making this podcast, whatever else is going on in my life is

All of the things, because we all always have all of the things, you know? Yes, everybody is carrying so much. Yeah, and we don't know what everybody is carrying, but everyone's got something, right? Yep. And this is that same escape and release and laughter and fun for me, making it, that

It sounds like it is for Jacqueline when she listens, and it makes me so happy. Me too. It made me so happy to read that letter. Jacqueline, thank you for taking the time to write us. And like Jenna said, we're here for you. Well, I think that is a nice time to take a break. Yes, because when we come back, we're going to catch up with Andy. He's on his boat. It's not going well. No, it is not.

Okay, you say, I want some breakfast. Your so-called boyfriend says, we got eggs in the fridge. Obviously, when you say breakfast, you mean McDonald's. Definitely a side-eye situation. Bring home the bacon, steak patty, or others with a BOGO for $1 breakfast. Only in the app. Limited time only at participating McDonald's. Valid once a day. Must opt into rewards. Visit McDApp for details. Ba-da-ba-ba-ba.

We are back on Andy's boat, and he's, I guess, doing some form of FaceTime. I think he's Skyping. Skype. Yes, Skype. They said Skype. Of course I would get that wrong. I'm going to get all of that wrong. Do people still Skype?

I don't know. Now we Zoom, right? Now we Zoom. We Skyped, then we FaceTimed, now we Zoom. I still FaceTime with my mom, but she calls it Facebook. So she'll say, do you want to Facebook? And I'm like, I'll FaceTime. Yeah. But I am becoming my mom. You are, slowly. Slowly.

He shares with everyone that he's been watching Dirty Dancing on repeat, and he's super sunburned because Walter Jr. has been hoarding all the sunscreen. Yeah. While he's talking with everyone, he manages to drop his drinking water overboard. Then he drops his desalinator overboard. And you know what? He looks awful. He looks like he's going crazy.

I know. He does. Daryl says, you know what? He's only been sailing for two days. Yeah. I mean, he looks like he's been out to sea for months. There were some alts within this scene. You know when Andy says, be more worried about my eyes because they've become flaming meatballs in my skull? Yes, yes. Here was his alt. If you want to worry about some part of my body, worry about my eyes. Brushed my teeth with a sea urchin this a.m. Oh.

Boy. I know. I think the writers had a lot of fun pitching this Andy Boat stuff. One of the other lines was, he said, my skin's too sensitive now. The shirt part of my life is over, dudes. He's not going to wear shirts anymore. No. That's it. He's done with shirts. He has no sunscreen, but he's going to take off his shirt. That's a great idea. Yeah, I know. We had a fan question from Olivia Bee in Las Vegas who really loved the line, keeps my hair out of my stare, also helps me combat the glare bear. I loved that.

I loved that line too, Olivia. Olivia wanted to know who wrote that line. Oh, I have a guess. Did you find out? I did. Carrie told me. Was it Brent? It was not, but that is such a good guess because he loves the puns. I know. Who was it? Although that's not a pun. It's more of a rhyme, right? I know, but still, very Brent-ish. Very Brent. Okay, Carrie said...

Olivia, I am so happy you asked this question. It was written by our writer, Graham Wagner. She said Graham is a good friend. They went on to write on Silicon Valley together. And she said she completely remembers cracking up in Paul Lieberstein's office when Graham pitched that line. Oh.

I love that. So she's so glad you appreciated it. Well, Graham, way to go. As Andy's dropping everything that's important over the side of the boat, including his laptop, I wrote two words. What? Fumble fingers. Oh.

Because he has a real fumble fingers. This is the thing my dad used to say when we were like teenagers clomping through the house and we would drop things. My dad would be like, someone's got a case of the fumble fingers. Well, I'll have you know, we really shot that on a boat. We shot Andy's side of the conversation the week prior when we were shooting the boat.

And getting that shot of the laptop going into the water was a really time-consuming shot. I bet. So what they did was our cinematographer put a waterproof GoPro camera and he attached it to a stick because they had to make sure that the camera didn't really sink. Right. But they also had to make sure it looked realistic. Right.

So it was like many times of someone like using this GoPro on a stick to look like fall and then bobbing and all that sort of stuff. Also, during the scene, we had a real boat captain. His name was Chris Robertson, and he was laying on the bottom of the cockpit driving the boat. Oh, my gosh. The whole time we did this shot. He was like hidden. But yeah. You know, the very last moment where Andy says,

He strikes a pose and is like, let this be the lasting memory of a man on a boat, you know? Yes. I have a background catch at 1 minute 27 seconds. What's that? Pam, Daryl, Angela, Phyllis, Oscar, and Aaron are all watching Andy as he drops his computer into the water. You even hear us react like, oh! And then at 1 minute 36 seconds, we're all gone. Only Aaron and Daryl remain. We left immediately. Immediately. Ran out of air. Everyone bailed.

I remember shooting that that morning, Angela. You know, we were not really live with him. No. But they did bring it up on the computer. And I remember being like legitimately shocked when I saw the makeup job of his like flaky skin. His face and his lips. His lips were so disturbing. I think they used our real reaction because I remember it. I remember being completely horrified. I was like, oh, my gosh. Oh, my God, Ed, what happened to you?

Well, let's get into the meat of this episode, or should I say the blubber of this episode. David Wallace is going to call Dwight and tell him some news. Yeah. He's very excited, puts him on speakerphone, only to want to take him off speakerphone because he doesn't want Jim to hear. Well, I mean, Jim rips the handheld part off the main phone, and now he's got to be on speaker. Yes, and what we learn is that the Scranton White Pages—

have dropped their paper supplier of 10 years, and they are up for grabs. And he wants Dwight and Jim to go and get this business.

He says he wants the top salesman, which is Dwight. Yeah. Dwight is over the moon. He's so excited. So excited. He has a talking head where he says, the white pages aren't something that you want or need, but it shows up on your doorstep anyway. And there's a reason why it's called the white whale. And then he flips through all the pages and he says, look at all that sweet blubber. Need a lot of paper to make the white pages. This is a big score. I think it might be time for a little mini, a mini dive.

On the white pages? On the first ever phone book. Oh, the first ever. I was so curious. I was like, you know, I love an origin story. So here's a little bit about the first phone book ever. It all went down in Connecticut. Connecticut. And he would be so proud. Yeah. Here's what the UConn Library website had to share. George Coy was the manager of a telegraph office in New Haven, Connecticut, and

and he attended a demonstration of the telephone by inventor Alexander Graham Bell in April 1877. This led to Coy establishing the world's first public telephone exchange in January of 1878. Lady, it says he used carriage bolts, teapot lids, and wire to make a switchboard of eight lines.

I mean, this feels like a little MacGyver action. Yeah. Right? It feels like something your kid does in science class. I know, but it worked, and the New Haven District Telephone Company was established.

And it was the first public telephone company in the world. Wow. The company established another first. It produced the first ever telephone directory. The directory listed 50 customers with no phone numbers. Oh. Yeah. How do I call them? Well, to us now, this might seem odd, but back then... How many pages was this? It was...

I mean, just three pages. It's like a little pamphlet. I saw a picture of it. Here's how it worked. Since every call was connected manually, you know, by a... Oh, you didn't dial a number. No, you were connected by a central switchboard operator, and the subscriber list was so small, no numbers were necessary. Sure, you would just dial up the person, the switchboard, and you'd be like... Connect me to... To whoever. Right. Yeah, Angela Kinsey. If you were in the pamphlet, I'd know you have a phone. That's right. Huh.

What's amazing is this company grew and went through many different configurations, but it provided independent telecommunications service to the state of Connecticut until 1998. Wow. I know. I love reading about the origin of things, but it also reminded me of a simpler time. And...

When I moved to Archer City, Texas, I would ask for people's phone numbers, and they would just give you four digits. Because the first ones were all the same? Yes, and the town was so small. So I moved from Indonesia, you know, and then I moved to this small town, and I thought everyone just had four numbers. That's so funny. And when I went to college, I would be like, what are your four numbers? Yeah.

I know. It's just crazy to think about. People were like, don't you need all of them, Ange? I'm like, no, I just need four. And they're like, nope. Just need the last four. Nope. Do you remember 411? Yes. Is that still a thing? Like you used to call up 411 and be like, I'm looking for the phone number of...

something like Lewis's Tires. I don't know. Should we call it? Sure. I mean, I'm scared. What happens when you dial 411 now? Let's not be scared. Well, what are we going to ask for? Ask for Pizza Hut. Okay.

The service you are calling is not available from this location. Oh. If this is an emergency. Oh. Well, we'll never get Pizza Hut now. Nope. We're just going to go without pizza today, I guess. Now you have me hungry for pizza. Sorry. Well, there you go. A little bit of the origin of the first phone book. The first phone book would not have been a whale. It would have been like a little, like a minnow.

Yes. Also, during this phone call with David Wallace, Dwight asks if Tom Peterman is still in charge of the White Pages account. We find out no. It is now run by a woman, but David doesn't know her name. Phyllis immediately perks up. She's like, no, no, no. Dwight cannot handle this sale. He is horrible with women. Yes. He kept calling Gina Rogers Jaina. Yes. She said she had to correct him five times. Dwight says, Jaina said that?

The scene was actually longer, and in the shooting draft, Dwight then turns to Angela and asks her, did I ever make you feel uncomfortable? This is how it read. Dwight, false. Angela, did I make you uncomfortable when I'd have sex with you in the warehouse? Angela, quickly for camera. I was a virgin before marriage, and I have never set foot in a warehouse. So they let us do a bunch of takes, and in one we improvised, and it made it into deleted scenes. I want you to hear it.

Dwight, you make women feel uncomfortable. That, oh, come on. That is so not true. Angela, when we would have meetings in the warehouse, did I make you feel uncomfortable? Those meetings were very brief. Boring, even. I remember them being... Well, they weren't. Oh, Angela, that is so funny. I know. That is such a good improv. It was so fun when I was like, it was very brief. I was like, Rain's face as Dwight was like, hey.

Well, Phyllis is not going to let this go, you guys. She's like, listen, an account this size could double their gross, you know, their salaries, their bonuses. Pizza Friday could come back. They're not going to be able to call Pizza Hut, though. Not with 411. No, they're not. Pam says, Jim, can you go instead? But he can't. He has his first board meeting conference call for his new business. Yeah. Yeah. So he's busy.

Dwight's going to run point on this. Oh, no. Buckle in. Meanwhile, we have this whole other storyline that really cracked me up. We talked about it. Movember. Pete is going to enter the break room. I don't even know what you would title this. Stashy in the break room? I guess so. Moustache in the break room. Moustache in the break room. He's got a little moustache, and so do Daryl, Clark, and Kevin. They're all very unshaven. Pete and Clark have a joint talking head where they say Toby got them to participate in Movember.

And they're going to have mustaches the whole month. So, you know, hope you like being turned on all the time. Toby enters and he has a very... I don't even know what you call it. It's a... It's a squirrel. It's a squirrel tail. He's very proud. He can clearly grow a mustache, a very hardy mustache. When he...

When Paul walked on set with that, I remember losing it because it was so wispy and weird and it hung down on his chin. I want you to know, lady, when Toby says that he has very fertile hair glands... Yes.

I googled that. I wondered if it was a thing. Oh. Fertile hair glands. Yeah. Do you want to know the very first thing that comes up when you just type in fertile hair glands? Do I? Do I? It's a photo of Toby. No. Yep. It's the very first thing that comes up. I

I didn't feel like I had to go any further than that because that was amazing. Paul Lieberstein, just so you know, on Google, if you type in fertile hair glands, a photo of you comes up.

That is pretty incredible. Well, Toby is so delighted that these guys have participated in Movember. Well, because he's got a buddy group now. Yes. They're bonded over their mustaches. And they're all back in the annex hanging out. They go to lunch. They do stuff together. They're hanging out. The scene was longer, and Creed is going to share about a time he grew a mustache. I think we should hear it. I had a mustache once. My lady friends called it the tickler because they stick it right in their armpits.

Well, I'm going to say that was a good edit. That they took out Creed saying his lady friends called him the tickler? Yes. Oh, it cracked me up. Well, I'll tell you what cracked me up this next scene. This is one of my favorites. Oscar is doing some fall cleaning. He's cleaning out his desk drawer. I want you to know every single bit about that desk drawer was scripted. I know.

I was like, what was this bit? All of it. The whole thing. All the details were scripted. He's cleaning out this drawer. And Angela says, I think the senator is having an affair. And the drawer comes unhinged in his hands. It is so good. And you know when that happens. It's like,

You can't get it back in there. No, no. Carrie Kemper said this is her favorite scene. She said she originally scripted it a little differently. She said it was originally scripted in the kitchen and Oscar was going to be toasting some bread. And you were going to come in and say, I think the senator is cheating on me. And he was going to accidentally knock the toast lever up and the toast was going to go flying in the air and he was going to like swat at the toast.

She said it was a little much. It got changed to the desk drawer gag. But she said she just loved seeing Oscar do physical comedy. And she really, she still kind of wishes that she would have gotten her toast gag because she thinks Oscar would have killed it. And she wanted to see your reaction of him like swatting toast. It was just so funny. I can't even imagine him swatting toast. I wouldn't have been able to get through it. Also...

Oscar feigning surprise or any emotion like that is just, he's brilliant. He's such a good actor. This cuts to a talking head with Oscar. He shares that he has had nightmares about this exact scenario. And he wakes up in a sweat and makes Angela's husband spoon him back to bed. Well, there was actually one more scripted line after that line. It's in the shooting draft. And I thought I'd read it to you. All right.

After he says, I would make Angela's husband spoon me back to bed, he would then look ashamed and then look at camera and say, I'm one cold mother****er. There was also a candy bag alt. It was a must shoot. So we did shoot it. Oscar would have said, I have nightmares in which Angela walks in on the senator and me. I also have nightmares in which Angela and I have lunch. It's weird. Angela's in all my nightmares. I kind of love that. I did too.

I love that the idea of the two of them having lunch is a nightmare. Well, Angela confides in Oscar that the senator has a secret little smile on his face when he comes home in the morning. And Oscar makes a noise like, aww. Also, she says the senator is always at this yoga studio. Yeah. He never misses noon hot yoga with Blake.

And Oscar's like, you have nothing to worry about. Blake is also a guy's name. So he could be spending the day, wait, with the guy. Wait a second. Yes. And then Oscar's like, who is this Blake? And Angela's like, yeah. And Oscar's like, I never heard anything about the senator doing yoga, you know, from you. And I'm like, right?

What's with all the yoga? Exactly. And then Oscar's like, okay, calm down. But we have to check this out. And Angela's like, what? Yeah. He's like, I'll go with you. I loved every second of this scene. It's delicious. It's so good. I always thought a really fun spinoff would be Angela and Oscar being roommates. You know, when Angela moves in with him, we're not there yet. But I remember telling Greg, if I could see anything more of this show, it'd be Angela and Oscar living together. It's like the odd couple. Yes. Yes.

That's a really good idea. I know. All right. Now we're going to go into the conference room and a bunch of the women in the office are trying to teach Dwight how to pitch to a female client. Yeah. It's not going great. No. No. They try to do some role playing, but Dwight is just creepy.

Yeah. Dwight's like, no, I'm going to tell her what her needs are and fill them all within 12 minutes. And everyone's like, OK, pump the brakes, buddy. We had a fan question from Zoe M. in Arkansas who said, I was wondering if Nellie's lines about Dwight murdering women were improvised. It appears that Rainn Wilson almost breaks after Catherine Tate finishes delivering her lines.

Well, Zoe, they were scripted. Yes, they were. And afterward, Pam had a talking head. Here's what I said. I just want to make it clear that Dwight would never willingly harm a woman. Although, if she steps into one of his booby traps, that's on her. Well, yeah, that goes for anyone. Yes, man or woman. That's true, or animal. That's on you. That's right. I have a coffee mug callback. Okay.

I bet I know which one it is because Tess from London, England spotted it as well. Tess, did you see Meredith's coffee mug? It's the one where Kelly gives everyone a mug that came to her America's Got Talent party. Yes.

Good catch, guys. I still have mine. I didn't get one. Pam didn't get one. I like that we're sing-songy. We're doing that thing like, I didn't get one. Well, I did. Yeah, that's right. As if I'm not still bitter about it. I'm not angry. Because everyone got one but me. If I sing it, if I sing it, I'm not pissed.

Well, Jim is going to start his big conference call. And guess what? He learns he's the only one calling in. Everyone else is in person in the meeting. Yeah. And Kevin keeps distracting him. I love that they had him start with that wrapper because someone opening up a noisy wrapper of like any kind of food item would make me crazy. Crazy. Well, Jim...

trying to, I guess, he starts whispering and they make fun of him for that. Then he tries to fix his voice and then they make fun of him for that. They call him Batman. Fan question from Samantha L. in Tampa, Florida. Samantha says, is it just me or are Jim's colleagues at his new company kind of being jerks? I think they're able to

They're a-holes. Yeah. She says him whispering or talking in a deeper voice really isn't that big of a deal. Isn't one of them supposed to be his friend from college? This has always bothered me. Am I the only one? You are not the only one. I kind of felt like they were making fun of him or being too cool for school and exclusive. I didn't care for it. I didn't like it. I didn't like it that they had absolutely, like, no compassion or patience. Yeah.

I agree, Samantha. I agree, Samantha. Well, we're going to get even more mail about this storyline later. It really triggered some people. Well, let's take a break because when we come back, the ladies are still trying to help Dwight in the conference room. Yes, we're going to learn Pam's selling to women rules. Yes, and we're also going to watch Dwight creepily nod like he's listening. It's terrifying. We'll be right back.

Pulling up to Mickey D's just for drinks. Oh yeah, that's me. Nothing extra, just perfection and a straw. Coming in hot for the coldest cups on the block. Because there are drinks. Then there are drinks from McDonald's. Mix things up with any size lemonade or sweet tea for $1.49. Perfect with our classic fries. Price and participation may vary. Cannot be combined with any other offer. Ba-da-ba-ba-ba.

All right, we are back. And here are Pam's selling to women rules. Okay, let's hear it. Listen, respect physical space. No eye rolling. Don't insult body. Don't compliment body. Don't mention body at all.

And then she's like, Dwight, are you even listening? Because he just looks like a statue. A statue. Yeah. And he's like, yes. And then she's like, look, see what I'm doing? I'm looking at you and I am nodding and I shows you that I am listening. And Dwight starts to do that.

And it's just so creepy. So, so creepy. The ladies are not convinced that Dwight can do this. Meredith says, we're screwed. And then Phyllis tries some role-playing and says, Dwight, ignore every instinct you have. They're all garbage, okay? You're the woman. I'm the salesman. Watch what I do and try to learn.

So Phyllis says, Miss Thomas, good to see you. Dwight says, hello. Phyllis goes, oh, are those your kids? They're so cute. They could be models. Dwight says, thank you. I'm so proud of them. I carried each one of them for nine months inside my torso and then pushed them out of

my vagina. Phyllis had to turn her head. Did you see it? She's breaking. She's full on breaking and had to physically turn away from the table. I did notice it. And you know who else noticed it? Destiny B from Folsom, California noticed it. It's at 10 minutes and 20 seconds. Yes, Destiny. She's totally breaking. And then right after that line, Meredith says, boo, weird.

Well, Pam decides she needs to go with Dwight. Yeah. So they're in the car together, and she says, Dwight, you know, there's a lot of benefits to getting along with women. Yeah, Dwight's like, Pam, I don't have a problem with women. I have a problem with business women. Mm-hmm. Because they wear these suits, and they have shoulder pads. He's very, very put off by shoulder pads. Yeah, he says, don't lie about your shoulders. Yeah.

We had a fan question from Samantha L. in Tampa, Florida, who says, Dwight kind of has a point here. Why on earth were shoulder pads ever a trend? I thought about Googling it, but I had a suspicion that the office ladies who Googled might already be on the case. You're not wrong. Yeah.

Can we get a breakdown on the history of women's shoulder pads, please? Samantha, I want you to know, whenever there's a line like this in an episode, like the phone book, the shoulder pads, Jenna and I get very excited. We're like, are you taking shoulder pads? I want phone book. It's true. I took shoulder pads. Yeah. And here is your brief history of the shoulder pad. You might be interested in hearing that shoulder pads did not originate in women's clothing.

The very first shoulder pad was invented in 1877 by a Princeton football player. I was going to say, isn't it like a sports thing? Yes, it was first used in American football. The first shoulder pads in fashion became popular in the 1930s when fashion designers Elson Schiaparelli and Marcel Rokas spoke.

started including them in their designs for women. Joan Crawford famously wore shoulder pads, and they became quite a trend in the 1940s. But we all know the shoulder pad from the 1980s. They were the defining fashion statement of the 80s,

It became known as power dressing. It gave you the perception of status. It gave the appearance of authority and confidence. This is also why a lot of military uniform jackets, both men and women's, almost always have padded shoulders.

Shoulder pads for women also make the shoulders and hips appear wider, thus making your waist look smaller. It gives you the illusion of an hourglass figure. They've had minor comebacks since the 80s, but really nothing as impactful. I had a question when I was reviewing this. Why do I need an hourglass figure? Why is that like the thing? Like, why do I need a tiny waist? And by the way, just full disclosure,

This might be a question I'm asking because I don't have a waist. I have a cylinder.

For a body of like a, just like a, what would you like it? This is what happens. I don't go in at the waist. Maybe I did when I was younger. Yes, everyone does when they're younger. But do you remember, I mean, there's a point in your life where you go to your family reunion and you're in your 20s and you're looking out at your aunts and they're all talking by the food table and they all look like marshmallows with like toothpick legs. Yeah. That's the phase of life we're at. We're marshmallows with toothpicks.

We've lost our waist. It happens. It does happen. And you know what? The fashion, though, is still designed for the waist. Not for the marshmallow. No. I know. And we need more fashion for the cylinder body. Yes. You know? Not for the hourglass. No. For the straight. For the rectangle. The marshmallow. I don't know what you would call it. Yes. I call it a marshmallow. But I go from my shoulder to my hips straight.

It's just a straight line. Right. Yeah. So it wouldn't matter if you put shoulder pads on me. No, it wouldn't. It's not. There's still no waste happening. You'd have to put giant shoulder pads on me. They never worked on me because shoulder pads are like one size fits all. But guess what? Not all shoulders are the same size. So you put a shoulder pad on me that you would put on someone taller and I lost my neck and

It was like a little head sitting on these two little shelves. I don't know. I looked like a turtle. I just remember that movie Working Girl. Yes. There were so many shoulder pads in that movie. So many shoulder pads. And I do remember Joan Crawford. When she walks into that boardroom of the Pepsi company and she goes, don't. Now Joan Crawford could do a shoulder pad. She could. She gets the pass. She's the one. Yes.

There it is. There it is. I hope you liked it. I liked it. I have one background catch here in this scene at 11 minutes and 16 seconds. Did anyone else watching this wonder what the heck happened?

Pam and Dwight are driving past. It looks like a bunch of orange vehicles, maybe like road crew vehicles, you know, or like some kind of transportation, orange vehicles. I didn't notice. And then lots of stuff that looks like bagged up trash. Anyone else go to 11 minutes, 16 seconds and be like, what the heck is that? What was it? I don't know. Oh. I took a screen grab. We're questioning it. We're not answering it. Does anyone else know? No.

Please write me. Well, we got another fan question about this scene from Gabriel M. in Brazil, who said, after four years, you guys might be able to finally end my seven-year-long quest. There is a deleted scene where Pam and Dwight are in the car.

and Dwight is hyping himself up to some loud metal. Yes, he's hyping himself up to go win this big sale. Yes, they're actually in the parking lot outside of the building where they're going to do this sale. He's doing that thing that he does, right? So Gabriel goes on to say...

that after seeing Pam's discomfort to this metal music, Dwight changes to a softer song. Yeah. Gabriel says, do you guys know either the song or the singer of the softer song? I love that little snippet of it, but I've never been able to find it. Well, I remember shooting this, but I couldn't remember the songs. And I didn't recognize it when I rewatched it. That's because Steve Burgess told me that it was scripted

To switch from a Metallica track to a Carpenter's track. Okay. Metallica said yes. Great. The Carpenter's said no. So then what did we switch to? We ended up recording it with no music. And this is why I couldn't remember. We added the music in post and we just used what Steve called library tracks.

It's just generic tracks of styles of music. It's much less expensive. But Steve said, unfortunately, he didn't have any information about it, but it's kind of like the stock photo of the music world. So it was, they were not like songs that we could point to. They were just this stock music. That's why I couldn't figure it out. Yes. And also, Gabriel, why you couldn't figure it out. Right. Yeah.

Well, Angela and Oscar are now at the yoga studio. They're actually in a food court where they can look through like a glass window into the yoga studio. Yeah, you guys are drinking. What are you drinking? Shakes? Are you drinking smoothies? They were like smoothies. Okay. The senator walks in with a very petite blonde. This really, really sends Angela off. Oh, she's a double zero for sure. Yeah, sure. And

And then she starts adjusting his hips for downward dog. Angela's like, I have heard of this. Yeah. Dog style. But then a guy walks up with a ponytail and gives the yoga instructor a big hug. And Angela is so relieved. She's like, ugh, guy with a ponytail. I'd like to see that run for office. Yes. But then Oscar sees the senator hugging a man who then starts giving him some adjustments as he's doing his yoga pose. Yeah.

He says, Angela's ready to leave. But Oscar says, no, shut up. We're staying. The plot thickens. Jim is still trying to take this phone call and make this meeting happen. He now goes outside, but there's construction going on. And then he kind of leans on Meredith's van and sets an alarm off.

And this is my favorite line of the whole episode. Hank comes out and is like, are those skateboarders back? And then Meredith is like, who was messing with my van? And then Hank yells, and this is my favorite line, ends now.

Like he is done. He is ready to take on this whole pack of skateboarders. And poor Jim is like, where can I talk to these people? Oh, where can you talk to these people, Jim? We've got a fan mail flurry to answer that question. What is it? It really teeds some people off. Fan question from Deanna H. in Plant City, Florida, who said, why wouldn't Jim just go into Andy's office to make the call? Andy isn't there.

Sarah C. from New Jersey said, I have been waiting so long to comment on Jim's phone call. I was so frustrated with Jim in this episode because there was no need for this, Jim. Here is a list of 10 places where Jim could have taken that call. I can't wait to hear this because one place came to mind immediately for me. I bet you can guess it. I don't know. It's where all the secret stuff happens. The secret stairwell. The stairwell. Why didn't he go

he go to the stairwell? Yes, that was number four on her list. Let's hear the rest. All right. Number one, Andy's office. Number two, Daryl's office. Surely Daryl would have given him his office for this. I mean, how long is this phone call going to be? Not long. Three, inside Pam and Jim's car. Yeah, I thought of that too. The stairwell. Number five, close off the break room like how Toby did when he was having a counseling session with Michael.

Six, the former Michael Scott paper company room. There it is. Seven, the room that they used for spying on Danny Cordray. Number eight, the Dwight Schrute gym for muscles. Number nine, Ryan's closet. Oh, yeah. Number 10, the closet near accounting where Jim and Pam sneak off in the episode PDA. This is a really good list.

Really good list. I understand the whole list. The only two that I think would be difficult are Andy's office and Daryl's office. I'll tell you why. Why? Because people can look in and be nosy and be like, hey, what are you doing in here? Like Kevin would be like, what's up? What are we doing in here? Are we hanging out? Yeah. All the rest I think makes sense. I've got another one. Home. Home. Go home. Who's in

in the office that's going to give you grief about it. Dwight has left and Andy's not there. Toby is completely distracted by his Movember gang. Just sneak out and go home and take the call. Go home. They don't live that far. No. Dwight and Pam are now walking into the office where they're going to meet this new prospective client. And Pam asks the receptionist, Molly, for the woman's name, but Molly won't tell her the name.

And Pam starts to look around the room, and Jen, I thought your performance was so great, as you start to see multiple clues that this is Jan. Yes.

You know, I asked Carrie about her role as Molly because she's so funny. I remember she did it at the table read, which often happened. Like, writers would read some of the smaller roles because sometimes those roles would get cut after the table read. So they didn't want to cast them until they were, like, locked in. Yes. So she said that after the table read, they asked her to play the part.

And she said she had used to act in musicals in high schools and college but had never done any on-camera work before. And she said one of the things that she remembered the most from the shoot, it's a very funny story, she said she remembered walking on set and that I looked at her and I said, oh, my gosh, I think you're wearing one of your sister's outfits. One of Erin's outfits? Yes. Yes.

Because, you know, that would happen sometimes. We would have guest actors and I would look over and they would be wearing some of Pam's clothes. Yeah. This happened. I'd be like, I think that's my...

Yeah. And so, yes, it turns out if you look at this outfit, it is one of Erin's outfits. She was wearing an Erin outfit, which I actually think is a really sweet nod to them being sisters. Yeah, I do too. Well, Jan is not happy that it is Dwight and Pam. She was really hoping for a reunion, a revenge union with David Wallace. Yeah.

Dwight is going to try to butter her up by complimenting Astrid, saying she could be a bubble bath model. So creepy, Dwight. Melora does...

something in this scene that I had to go back. I had to rewind because I thought it was so great. It's not in the script. It's just Melora being Jan and she's so brilliant. While she's frustrated and talking to them, Jan picks up a frame and wipes the dust off with her boob. I noticed that. On her shirt. It's so funny. That is not in the script. Melora is so good. We got a lot of fan mail. People wanted to know whose idea it was to bring Melora back. Well, it was Greg.

In this final season, he wanted us to touch base with some of the office favorites. Remember, David Denman came back for Roy's wedding. So this was the Jan episode. And I traded texts with Melora because after I watched this episode, I was just like, God, she's so good. She's so good. She said it was so great to get to come back and see everybody. She said she especially loved all of the Pam and Jan awkward interactions. Yeah.

And I had to ask her about that skydiving photo. I was like, did you, what is that? Like, well, how did you do that? Because it was scripted that there was going to be the skydiving photo in the office. And it's really big. It takes up the whole wall. She said that she had to come in one day and they put her in a skydiving suit and they had her lay on a table that was green. And then they set up a fan and they blew it in her face. And

And then in post, they removed the table and they put in the sky background. And that's how they got that picture. By the way, Angela, I don't know if you know this. There is a huge monk crossover with Melora.

Yes, I have been told this. She plays Trudy Monk. Yes. She is his ex-wife who was killed in a car bomb. And she comes back like as an apparition sometimes. Yes. And her murder is the only one that Adrienne Monk has not been able to solve. It was like this whole runner of the series. I'll have you know, she is back for the Monk movie, Monk's Last Case. Oh, I am not because my character went to jail. Sorry for the spoiler.

Yeah. Well, I loved all the little accents on Jan's desk. I'm sure a lot of you noticed these as well. She has her serenity candle. She has a fancy pin set. She has clacky balls.

Balls. Yes. Oh, you know what? My clacky balls are tangled. Oh, you have to bring them in for Cassie. We need Cassie to untangle my clacky balls. Jan not only has clacky balls, but she has basket of balls. And then she has one of those little mini zen, like sand gardens. And I just love the physical comedy callback that when Jan got stressed, she lit one of her own candles and started- She wafts it. Wafts it. I love that too. Well, it becomes very clear to Pam very quickly that-

Jan has no intention of giving them her business. So she's like, we need to go. But Dwight is like, no, stay here. I have an idea. And he leaves. And Pam has to sort of just fill the time until Dwight gets back. The scene was much longer of Pam trying to bond with Jan. I really want you to hear it. It's in deleted scenes. Astrid will be fine. My sperm donor was a Caltech physicist. Your sperm donor sells paper.

By my sperm donor? Do you mean my husband, Jim? I'm just saying your sperm was free. You get what you pay for. Well, Jim and I love each other, so that's got to be worth something. So now you're saying that I'm unlovable. That's what you're basically saying. I'm very sorry. I am. Is that it, Pam? No. I'm sorry. I hear it. Do you have another one of these? The slideshows? Let's see it. Molly! Oh my goodness.

Jan is so unpredictable. Pam is just trying to, like, have a conversation. Are you saying I'm unlovable? Like, wait, how did we get there? But she's also, like, trying to defend herself because Jan is insulting her. I know. Oh, my goodness. I also feel like we have to talk about the slideshow and the song. And this is the last time we're going to hear Jan sing. Yes. And we need to hear it. Okay. Okay.

Wow. Wow is right. Wow is the only response to that. Wow. Wow. Oh, Melora, amazing, amazing job. Well, there's a little flirty at reception happening.

There is. Pete is trying to talk to Erin, but she's very grossed out by his mustache. Here's a list of all the insults Erin says to Pete. I mean, she says them nicely. She says, there's an eyebrow in the middle of your face. She says, your handsome eyebrow makes it look like your mouth is like an eye socket. She also says he looks like a cyclops, but whose eye fell out. And Pete immediately goes and shaves off the mustache. Yes, exactly.

Movember is over now for Pete. Back at the yoga studio, Oscar and Angela continue to spy on the senator, and Oscar suggests

That maybe the affair that Angela should be worried about is with this man. Yeah. Angela's like, Oscar, what is happening here? Why would you say you think the senator might be gay? And I loved Oscar's performance here when he says, I don't know, Angela, I'm dehydrated. Maybe you heard me wrong. We should just go. And then Angela's like, oh, here he comes. What's he doing? And Oscar says he's making a phone call.

And then Oscar's phone rings. This is how the stage direction was written for this moment in the shooting draft. Okay. Suddenly, Oscar's phone rings. Angela looks at the phone. Oscar fumbles with it, trying to turn it off. Angela looks from Oscar to the senator and back. Oscar looks at her guiltily. She reads it in his face and knows. Very interesting. That all played out. I mean, I saw all of that play out in your scene.

Well, you know, we filmed the scene multiple times. They kept moving the camera around because they really wanted to make sure that they could capture Oscar and I looking at each other, but that we were also hidden from the senator, but that the camera could see the senator. So they kept moving the camera around, and I actually have all of the unedited takes from this moment. Really?

Yeah. They were given to me way back when I found them in my digital clutter and I have all of them. The moment the phone rings and I look at him. In some takes, they had me grab my coat and walk off in a huff. And then other takes, they just had me hold the stare at him. And that's what they used.

Wow. Well, it's really funny. When I was watching this episode and I saw these scenes, I was like, why do I feel like I was there? This was a location. I wouldn't have been there. But Angela, I was. I was. Steve Burgess reminded me that we shot this yoga studio at the 360 Health Club in Reseda, California. And I was like, why do I feel like I was there?

In the morning, we shot in the parking lot. We shot that scene of me and Dwight out in the car. Oh, in the car. And we did all of our driving scenes around this area. And I came in and I said hi to you guys because they were setting up your interior work. So I was there. Oh, my gosh. I know. I totally remember it. Our base camp was in the parking lot. And so...

I was there that day. I remember. And I love those scenes. Thank you. I absolutely love them, and I loved rewatching them. And I want to call Oscar and be like, Oscar, let's do a show. You should. Well, Dwight is now going to come back to Jan's office, and guess who he has in tow?

Clark. Clark. Clark. Like as a token? Like Dwight is offering up Clark to Jan? What the heck? Well, he says, Molly is a crap assistant. You can have Clark. Yeah. How about that? Pam's like, Clark, you don't have to do this. And he goes, no, I want to get ahead. I want to get ahead in the paper sale industry. Do you know why the storyline was in place?

Where was Clark in real life going? Had he booked a movie? Exactly. Yes, he had. Clark needed time off to go film Kick-Ass 2. So we put Ed on a boat because he was off filming Hangover 3. We gave Clark to Jan because he had to film Kick-Ass 2. Also, after we shot this episode, we took a three-week hiatus to give these gentlemen a little bit more time to do their movies. Oh. Hmm.

Did you hear that? It's exactly one year ago at the same time that I was asking for maternity leave. Correct. And I was told we can't do that. No. We can't take three-week breaks so that you can heal from birthing a human. Yeah. We couldn't do that. We'd done it

All the other years for movie projects, seasons one through seven, and then again here in season nine. But apparently in season eight, we just couldn't. You know what? You should have been in Kick-Ass 3. Maybe if I'd done Blades of Glory 2, I could have had three weeks off. I don't know what Kick-Ass is. I don't know Kick-Ass 1. Oh, it's a really funny movie. I need to see it. Yeah. I mean, I love Clark.

But yeah, I hear you on all of that. Yeah. I hear you. Anywho, I'll leave it there. We'll leave it there and we're going to save it for our spinoff podcast, Office Ladies Burn It to the Ground. This episode ends with Pam and Dwight. They are leaving and they run into Molly. And Pam says, I think you should quit. And Dwight wishes her luck with her feelings. Pam is like, wow, Dwight, you should ask her for her number. And then he says, I already did.

He reads off what's clearly a license plate. And Pam says, oh, is that her license number? Lady, I was very confused why you would call it a license number. Oh. So I went to the shooting draft. And your actual line is, Dwight, that's a license plate. But I said license number and it stayed in. I think you just fumbled it and it stayed in. But it cracked me up.

And it's a very sweet moment, though, between Dwight and Pam because Dwight says, you are my friend. Yeah. Yeah. I always love those moments. Me too. There's a really great episode coming up that actually Lee, my husband Lee, directed. It's vandalism. And-

Pam and Dwight are going to team up to figure out who vandalized something. I won't, I guess, spoil it, but. This is a duo I love. I love Pam and Dwight, and I love Angela and Oscar. Me too. All right, you guys, that was The Whale. We want to thank you all for writing in and sending your questions and your comments. We love them so much. A big thank you to Steve Burgess, Carrie Kemper, and to Melora Hardin, who, by the way, I don't know if you know this, but she started a line of wallpaper.

Yes, it's beautiful. Beautiful. And she also stars in a one-woman film called Golden Vanity. The film has won several awards at various film festivals, including three Best Actress awards for Melora. You can learn more about the movie and more about her wallpaper at melora.com. But don't you worry, because I'll put it in stories, y'all, with a swipey. Yes, you will. All right. Bye, you guys. See you next week. Bye.

Thank you for listening to Office Ladies. Office Ladies is produced by Earwolf, Jenna Fisher, and Angela Kinsey. Our senior producer is Cassie Jerkins. Our in-studio engineer is Sam Kiefer. Our editing and mixing engineer is Jordan Duffy. And our associate producer is Ainsley Bubbico. Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton. For ad-free versions of Office Ladies, go to stitcherpremium.com. For a free one-month trial of Stitcher Premium, use code OFFICE.

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