Cinco de Mayo Missing (Nancy Woodrum)
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Hi, I'm Ashley Flowers, creator and host of the number one true crime podcast, Crime Junkie. Every Monday, me and my best friend Britt break down a new case, but not in the way you've heard before and not the cases you've heard before. You'll hear stories on Crime Junkie that haven't been told anywhere else. I'll tell you what you can do to help victims and their families get justice.

Join us for new episodes of Crime Junkie every Monday. Already waiting for you by searching for Crime Junkie wherever you listen to podcasts. This kind of thing doesn't happen a whole lot in our county. They drew a lot of attention, a lot of attention, because it made no sense. I mean, to this day, it makes no sense that this is his first and only crime. I mean, this is huge. This is a huge crime. I'm Scott Weinberger, investigative journalist and former deputy sheriff.

I'm Anasiga Nicolazzi, former New York City homicide prosecutor and host of Investigation Discovery's True Conviction. And this is Anatomy of Murmur. We've spoken a few times on how we got started in our fields, but we haven't mentioned what prompted us to step away from it.

For me, I always envisioned I was actually retired being a prosecutor. But after doing homicides exclusively for 16 of my 21 years, that burnout really started to creep in. And if you can't give each case 100, 110 percent...

well, then you really probably shouldn't be doing it. And for me, while I would never not give a case that, it's what it was doing to my headspace and peace of mind that I just decided to sidestep and stay involved in this subject matter, but as you can all hear, a very different way. And for me, I had a unique opportunity years into my law enforcement career to move my passion for asking questions and digging for answers to the field of investigative journalism, where

Those similar skills are really in play. And then, of course, melding the two worlds, law enforcement and journalism, speaking up for victims and being passionate about telling these stories. The reason we're talking about this today is that the guest for today's episode is Detective Clint Cole. And as of March, he retired from a 32-year career with the San Luis Obispo County Sheriff's Office. But we interviewed him just weeks before his retirement. I started at 21.

So I didn't have a ton of experience. After working as a senior deputy, he was selected in 2017 to be the first investigator assigned to the newly created position of cold case homicide detective. Party of one. When I need help, then, you know, there's detectives here that can help me. You know, it's not like I never have help, but the position is a one person spot.

And in 2019, he was assigned and later solved, I might add, to the murder of Kristen Smart, who obviously many of you have heard about, who was a missing 19-year-old college student. And that case just would go cold. But today's case, in many ways, is the complete opposite of Kristen Smart's.

I was at home. It was on Cinco de Mayo, May 5th, 2018. And I got a phone call about six o'clock from my detective sergeant saying that there was a missing person under very suspicious circumstances. The missing person here is 62-year-old Nancy Woodrum. And he requested that I start responding to Nancy's house.

And Nancy's property is kind of unlike any property we've featured before on AOM, based on the fact it had multiple homes on the same piece of land. Her husband had died. Prior to that, her husband and her lived in the large house. Nancy's husband had passed away six years before, almost to the day. And then after he died, she decided to move to the studio and start renting the large place out.

So Nancy was living on the property alone with her daughter while renting out the other buildings, the main buildings, as a vacation rental or party venue. One was like a VBRO. Now, there was a large...

Five bedroom, five bathroom house, very large swimming pool behind it, kind of in the center of the property. Then there was another residence, which was like a two bedroom connected to that was a very small studio. It was you walked in, you could see Nancy's bed, the kitchen, everything. The only thing that had a door was the bathroom.

Nancy had a neighbor that she was close with, and they had a routine to go on walks together. But on this day, Nancy was a no-show. Nancy also didn't show up for a breakfast meeting with another friend. So the neighbor and Nancy's daughter went inside to check on her.

This was the small studio, had a sliding glass door. And when they got there, the door was open and they saw some very suspicious stuff, blood all on the bedding, the floor, Nancy's cell phone purse, her shoes she wore every day. We're all still there.

The TV was left on. Nancy's horses on the property hadn't been fed. Nancy's car keys and her personal items were still in the home. Both of her vehicles were there, and there was no sight of her anywhere on the property. So Nancy's daughter reported her mom missing.

For first responding officers, this was the first sign that something serious had happened.

There was a bloody handprint on a pillow. There was a large blood spot kind of at the foot left side of the bed. And there was a bunch of blood drops as if somebody may have been punched. And then there was a large blood spot, probably six inches wide by 10 inches in length.

Now, they also noticed that the bedding that you would expect to see on Nancy's bed was just gone. I mean, nowhere in sight. And that led them immediately outside. And that's where they started to notice things on the outside of the property also. Outside, there was an area where you could see truck tires. And behind the truck tires, you could see where the dirt had been disturbed as if there was a struggle.

There was bedding and clothing, which her daughter confirmed was hers. There was blood on the bedding, a pair of shorts, a shirt that a woman would sleep in, along with a pillow. It was found a couple miles down the road, off the side of the road.

You know, when I say go, one of the first things I thought of when I heard this is potentially her body may have been wrapped in that blanket and brought down the road and then perhaps transferred to a vehicle or find some way to get the body out of that location. And I also just picture whether this was one or more people. And if they are, we are to presume carrying Nancy or Scott, as you said, her body, then

that that's not an easy thing. And so if they're trying to get her into a car, you can almost picture the footprints, which are heavier because they're carrying a large object or certainly a heavy object, a person. And they are just kind of leaving these marks in the dirt as they're trying to get her from the home now into presumably a car. I had a strong sense that somebody had came into her studio and taken her, basically snatched her out of her house.

You know, I look at the first indication of no forced entry, that potentially the killer may have been let in by the victim or perhaps through an open door or window. Either way, it's a bit too early to determine whether this was a personally targeted attack or a home invasion gone wrong. There's just too many stories of the stranger, the abduction by someone that you never saw coming. So it is one of those like you

You could flip a coin at this point of seeing which way, if something bad happened, who it's going to be. Nancy Woodrum was well known in the area because she was a hairdresser, a really popular one for many years. Nancy cut my daughter's hair. My ex-wife knew her very, very well. So she was very well known.

So, of course, investigators look at those close to her, and absolutely no one is jumping out as having a reason to even do this woman harm. And it doesn't seem like the 62-year-old is just going to walk away or even disappear for even a couple of days. She was a devout Jehovah Witness who was very involved in the church. She wouldn't have gone anywhere that late. She would go to bed about 9 o'clock.

But Nancy did rent out her own property. You know, vacation rentals is a $15 billion industry, and the U.S. has the most lucrative market compared to the rest of the world.

But it does come with its own dangers. If you're renting out your primary home, there's all sorts of concerns that come along if you're the homeowner, right? From damage to the property to even pissing off your own neighbors that you have to live with all year long when you end up renting that house to others. So I could see that this could potentially be an issue.

And here she's actually living on the same property. So think about that, Scott, as this added layer. So now if there is an issue either because the renters just won't leave or they're maybe being too loud or you're seeing that they're causing some damage, well, tempers can flare. And here is this woman who we know is 62 years old and basically living alone. And there definitely is the potential for danger.

Now, Cinco de Mayo, which is May 5th, wasn't the only time that police had visited Nancy's home. They were actually there the day before. The deputies had showed up there for a noise complaint on Friday and just, you know, talked to the residents and told them to quiet down. And then they didn't have to come back until we got the call on the 5th. An investigator soon noticed something else that was curious. That same night, Nancy had called the police.

So on her phone records, there's a 911 call, but it never went through. It says zero seconds. That weekend, her property was being rented out for a wedding. The guests were just staying there, and they all showed up on Friday and had conversation with Nancy, was going about their normal activities for their wedding.

So when it comes to homes, whether it's one that someone's living in or even one that they rent out, there's usually only so many people that are inside at any one time. So that's going to leave you with a relatively short list of suspects if you're looking at those that were on the property. But here you have a wedding. So the pool of suspects here was obviously quite large. Yeah, this is one of those old boy moments.

The initial focus was interviewing all of those people from the wedding party who were now returning. There was probably at least 20 people in the house. At the time, we didn't know who could have done this. While the people that were staying there were there for a wedding celebration, the wedding festivities themselves were not taking place on Nancy's property. The guests were just staying there. The wedding was at another winery down the street.

And then there was another winery where they did their Friday night the night before. One or two of the males stayed back on Friday night. The one guy who stayed back gave some kind of weird answers. While most of the guests were at a winery down the street on Friday night, this one particular guest said he wasn't there.

He had had a conversation with Nancy while everybody else went to the wedding festivities on Friday. And he just, he just was very nervous, just didn't come across very good. But his story didn't ring true. And this was what was weird about this guy. Later on, they show us pictures on cell phones where he was at the party. So we don't know why he said he didn't go.

So why the lie? Why place himself at a potential murder scene if he wasn't there? You know, we can understand if someone doesn't remember what they did a week ago or a month ago, but he is being interviewed the next day. He made some inconsistent statements about staying back at the house. So was it nerves and he didn't know what to say? Or was it that he actually knew what happened and didn't want to say?

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Normally, we've heard it the other way around. People placing themselves as far away from the scene of a crime as possible. Was this just part of his odd behavior? And then there's always the flip side possibility as well, that he's covering up for somebody else. Remember, there was lots of people staying there that weekend. And that was all just part of his suspicion is he was just acting goofy. You know, we needed to get him cleared.

And they went to his home, a place where they thought he might be more comfortable at that point, which again is usually the reverse of when they're trying to speak to someone. They just wanted to see how he would act. Once we were at the house, he was fine. He gave us his DNA. He was eventually cleared. So you're probably asking yourself, why the odd behavior? While it may not be a factor in the case, we all know in general, most people are nervous when they're being questioned by police.

So one by one, a large list of potential persons of interest were being narrowed down. But maybe it was someone who was closer to Nancy. Her son is an odd dude. He never wanted to be involved. He didn't want to talk to us. He refused to give us DNA.

And of course, familial relationships can be tricky. But knowing that your mom is missing, not being willing to speak to police or give DNA or do anything to help them find her or give any information, it does make you tilt your head a bit.

Nothing really shocks, I think, you and I, Anastasia, in this world about the behavior of some people within these investigations. But, you know, a member of the victim's family, it's definitely not out of the norm, but it's usually the complete opposite. I would want to dig in a bit deeper into the why. We looked at her son because they didn't get along. You know, it was awful suspicious her son wouldn't provide his DNA to clear himself.

Without his cooperation, Clint would have to find ways to confirm or clear the son's potential involvement. It would all take the three S's: science, surveillance, and sample. So we all know there's other potential ways of getting DNA: abandoned samples. So they do go ahead and ultimately obtain a sample from him without him knowing, but yes, still legally. And when they did, they were able to check him off their list.

We just kind of kept going through people that either knew her or were close to her. Remember, while the leading theory here is that Nancy Woodrum was abducted from her home in a bloody struggle, it's just a theory. So the search for Nancy, dead or alive, is as active as a search for a possible killer.

This is a rural area. So we had canines, our search and rescue crew, the helicopter search the dry creek behind her house. You know, this is what we train for, creating a grid and systematically covering that area, hoping the dog gets an alert.

But our search and rescue people, we had them walk from the riverbed from Nancy's house all the way to Highway 58, looking in culverts. That's a good 15, 20 miles. 15 to 20 miles. Think about how long it takes to walk one mile. And here we are doubling, tripling, quadrupling that many times over. I felt bad for them.

We searched with the cadaver dogs behind Nancy's house. The helicopter flew several days. We really did exhaust a lot. But the search would come up empty. We had located a couple other persons of interest who were seen near the house. We tracked them down. They were cleared. We went door to door. There was another person of interest, a realtor, who didn't get along with Nancy. We went through the motions with him, and he was cleared.

So investigators are really at a loss. While they had all sorts of people to be looking at and their heads were turning from this one to that one, from all different facets of Nancy's life, nothing is panning out and they're still left with no one to hone in on and more importantly, no Nancy. The first couple months, you know, it was pretty much a whodunit. That was scary to us because those cases don't happen a whole lot here anymore.

The days turned into weeks, which turned into months. The more time that had passed, the more investigators believed that this was, in fact, a homicide.

So investigators are trying to think where else can they go or look to try to find some answers. And they started to look at her home itself. So during the time of this murder, the house had been sold, but they were in the process of fixing up a few things from the inspection. Now, there was a couple of contractors in and out doing different things.

Even though right now investigators don't have a body or even a prime suspect, this avenue of the investigation would eventually lead Clint Cole to Nancy's killer. And so there was a contractor that had not been getting along with Nancy over money. Where we got that information was from Nancy's daughter that Nancy had been telling her that this guy was a hothead and there were issues.

He had a significant criminal history. He was known to most of us as being not a very nice guy. Clint called to some of the other workers to find out more information about the contractor and specifically his behavior that Friday.

The contractor was there and the painter was there the most. He was painting the deck on the big house. I actually spoke to him on the phone to ask him about the contractor and if he had seen any issues between Nancy and the contractor. You know, if he saw anything, heard anything, and he said he never saw anything between them. He remembers the contractor being on scene, but he never saw any arguments between Nancy and the contractor.

So here they have two questions. If something happened to Nancy, of course they need to find the who, but they also need to find Nancy. We did one of the first ever Google geofences in California. So let's talk about geofences. It's a Google product which captures cellular data to define a virtual geographical boundary, a fence.

You basically draw a perimeter around Nancy's studio and the other small house. And we did it for the big property as well. Google assigns each person's cell phone a number only to that phone, like a fingerprint.

Just picture it. Every single one of us has a number that is given to Google, which of course seems to control the earth when it comes to technology. And they can draw this fence around a specific location and then just see what numbers pop up and then track the, at least who is registered to own that phone based on that. Pretty amazing technology.

To give you a sense of how popular geofence warrants are with law enforcement, in 2018 Google reported it received 982 geofence warrants. In two years the number of warrants grew by 8% and now a major chunk of data requests from Google, about one quarter of them, are geofences. But just by its nature,

Tracking brings up a lot of privacy issues, and I don't disagree with them. On one hand, you want investigators to have the best tools available to solve cases, but keep it in check. And that's why the courts must determine whether a warrant for the data is justified.

And there's also another reason why it isn't used in all the cases that it might be helpful. And that is just because the passage of time. It's not like you can snap your fingers and now you have the data. There not only takes a while to get this information, but then you have to sift through it and just think about almost any place that you live, unless you're somewhere completely rural, how many people are passing by and almost everyone has a phone. So it is time consuming. And so very often investigations don't have that type of time to waste or

Or, fortunately, a case is solved before they need to go there with this. Once we did the Google geofence, it took some time to get it in. We noticed the same two Google numbers were inside Nancy's studio at about 115 and 145 in the morning, Saturday. Then we have to write Google another warrant to identify who owns that device.

And then we got Carlo Fuentes as the owner of that cell phone. His full name was Carlo Alberto Fuentes Flores. He was 42 years old, and you actually have heard about him earlier in the story, and so had investigators. Remember the contractor who had allegedly had an argument with Nancy once before? Well, investigators tried to corroborate that story with the painter who had been on the property. But that man claimed not to have seen anything suspicious.

Well, maybe that's because the painter was Carlo Fuentes Flores. When it comes to bras, stop compromising because now you can have it all. Beauty and comfort, support and breathability. At last, Bally Breathe has arrived. A breathable and breathtaking collection of bras, underwear and shapewear that feel as good as they look.

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Detective Clint Cole had spoken to Carla Flores before, and he said he'd never noticed anything that was really suspicious. He went on to describe Nancy as friendly and nice. He said that she had fed him lunch and that they had discussed the Bible. But it seems that Flores was hiding something, and this painter was now a prime suspect. Well, the data leads us to his house. We put him under surveillance.

Forensic science has proven to aid investigators in the direction of the killer. And they had hoped once again it could help confirm it. Keep in mind, the blood evidence was found in Nancy's home. I mentioned there's a handprint, a bloody handprint on the pillow. And on the other side of the pillow, there was a lot of blood. So we were able to send that to the Department of Justice lab.

and they were able to get male DNA off of the handprint. So then we followed Carlo, got his surreptitious DNA, and it was a match. So now we have his phone and bloody handprint inside Nancy's house.

And this really is the bingo moment. He's already the prime suspect. They have what they got from his phone. But now you have his DNA and not just in the house, right? Because he said he'd been in the house and we knew that he was on the property painting. But you have his DNA that is tied to a bloody handprint in her home. We tried to learn as much about him as we could by talking to his boss. Everyone said he's the nicest guy in the world. And

No one thought he would be involved in something like this. We found a list of people that he had painted for. We called them all. Everyone praised him. He lived with his in-laws and his wife and just seemed to live a normal life. There's also one account that painted him in a very different light. There was one girl that he gave the creeps. He tried to enter her house and offer her a beer, but she was able to shut the door.

But other than that, he definitely had some serious issues. He was having an affair on his wife and videotaping it, all this stuff.

So obviously people have relationships outside of their primary ones. It's certainly not that uncommon to hear, but the videotaping does make you kind of turn and look, you know, why would he videotape these relationships, especially ones that are, you are most likely trying to keep a secret. I think it really goes to Scott something deeper in his psyche and

The fact that if any relationship that you don't want to document, it would be this one. And so it almost strikes me as like some sort of a deep seated need or desire or want on the part of this guy. We wrote warrants for his Google searches. We found out that he actually had a lot of searches on his Google history for like porn site cougars, older ladies.

I mean, the specificity of his interest in this type of adult content is completely irrelevant.

Everyone has their own interests, and it really is kind of whatever floats your boat. You're into younger, older, same-sex, different, you know, who cares? But when we look at the fact that this woman, 62-year-old, she is not the first one you normally check off the list when you're thinking about someone being targeted for this type of crime. But now that we see that he does have a type, and certainly in the age range, she checks that box, you know, you really start to, Scott, think about the

the scenario and it's all starting to unfortunately fit. And just expanding it further, what about any other cases which could be connected using this new intel as a factor?

We searched and searched, and we knew he was in Arizona shortly before the homicide. We called all those agencies over there. No one had any contact with him. It's the oddest thing in the world that this is what he does for his first crime.

You know, we do have somebody here who has no history of violence at all. You know, is it odd for him to go from zero to 60, from having done nothing like this before, to committing murder? I mean, that's got to be a question. Right, because, Scott, it is, and we know that people don't normally do that. There are these, you know, steps, dipping their toe in the water, starting to hone their skills. Either he's really never done it before, and then that's odd in and of itself, or he's just been hiding it really well.

That puzzled us. And the interesting thing is during his Google data, there's a church in the city of Pastor Robles. He pulls in there and he sits there for like 20 minutes before he heads to Nancy's house. I always wondered if he wasn't, you know, praying or trying to get the nerve up to do this.

Here's a theory. Let's assume that Flores does have a fetish for older women, and it's something that he fantasizes about. And while there was signs of a struggle in the home, what about the possibility that she is still alive somewhere, and he's still continuing to act out these fantasies?

There's certainly a concern that he's got her captive somewhere. We did put him under very strict surveillance just in case he was holding her captive somewhere because he had a storage facility where most of his painting stuff was. So what did they find when they put him under this microscope, this surveillance? Zip, zero, nada. No idea where she was. And we didn't find out until we actually sat him down and interviewed him.

So the real next step is to see if you can get Flores to sit down and talk. They don't know where Nancy is. Is she alive or dead? And that is going to be something, an added stressor for them as they try to gameplay the interview.

I like to prepare for my interviews, sometimes a little too crazy. Me and the other lead investigator, we spent several days developing a way to approach him. We didn't want to scare him off before we even started the interview. Our first goal was to just go get her. So Detective Clint Cole and his partner approach Flores. They ask him to come down to the station to talk about Nancy's disappearance. And surprisingly, he agrees to do that.

He came right to the station. He was eager. He says, I can't wait. Yeah, I want to help you. We also had the prosecuting attorney watching the interview. You already know that you have a top person of interest who is willing to talk and be very cooperative. In fact, one may say overly cooperative. So as an investigator sitting down, you want to welcome his openness. At the same time, try to find a potential weakness. Early on, he was nervous.

As investigators start to build a rapport with Flores, talking about golf, his family, his job, really anything but Nancy, they lull him in to a comfortable space. And then after about 45 minutes, they make that turn, right? They make that investigative turn where they begin to ask him direct questions about Nancy.

You know, he was denying any involvement at first. It just came to a point where my partner was telling him, "We think you're not being honest." And he starts getting nervous. I just told him, "Carlos, you're not here because we think things. You're here because we know things. And this is your chance to change your story if it needs changed." My heart was going to pound out of my chest.

I just thought, oh my gosh, he's going to do it. He's going to do it. You could literally see my shirt moving from my heart. And he starts crying, puts his head down and says, I made a huge mistake. Want to connect with more family and friends and their native language is in English?

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That's rosettastone.com slash N-A-T-O-M-Y. Hi, I'm Ashley Flowers, creator and host of the number one true crime podcast, Crime Junkie. Every Monday, me and my best friend Britt break down a new case, but not in the way you've heard before and not the cases you've heard before. You'll hear stories on Crime Junkie that haven't been told anywhere else. I'll tell you what you can do to help victims and their families get justice. Join us.

Join us for new episodes of Crime Junkie every Monday, already waiting for you by searching for Crime Junkie wherever you listen to podcasts. It was almost like he had two lives because he was super calm with us and he wanted to get this off his chest. It wasn't long until Carlo began in a seemingly remorseful tone to detail why Nancy hadn't been located.

And he put his head down almost to his knees and his hands over his face and he started crying. And he said, "Oh my gosh, I've made a huge mistake."

When anyone is feeling remorse, like, is there a part of me that wants to feel for them? Absolutely not. Because if you were the person that did this to her based on what I think is going to come, then no, no, no. You know, I don't want to hear the remorse. I wish you hadn't committed the crime. However, the thing that does strike me right away is certainly better to hear this than someone that shows no feeling. And we've certainly talked about many interviews like that before.

But on the more hopeful side, maybe he's going to lead them to Nancy's body. And then he says, I want to help you. I want to take you to the body. Then a real sense of relief, just this rush of anxiety when I knew he was going to take us to the body.

You know, but Clint made it clear that this was not a time for stories, but a real time for truth and facts. And so their goal here is different than what you might first think. Remember, they already have evidence that has led them to bringing him inside the room. But it isn't to catch the killer. It isn't to see if they can get him to confess. At least not yet. Right now, their primary objective is to find Nancy.

We had plenty of evidence against him, even if he quit talking to us, but we wanted her. And so we didn't want to spook him off with talking about rape and all that until we had her in our possession. It was time to do what's right for Nancy, her family, and to preserve the evidence in this important case. Recover her body and give her the burial that she deserves.

We take him in my car. This is very rural, way out in the middle of nowhere. And he described these rocks. He said, I have surrounded her with rocks. He didn't bury her. He just covered her with tumbleweeds. And so they drive him in their car and he takes them out to this remote area. And he really starts to talk about not only where she is, but the way that he left her. He put rocks around her. He put brush over here. And it's not just so they can find her.

He's like, you know, I covered her up with tumbleweeds. Like he didn't leave her uncovered. He says it almost with, I don't know, Scott, it was almost like a bit of,

Like, oh, look, at least I covered her body. Like, you should be happy that I at least left her with that dignity. And I just found that quite perverse based on what we're talking about here. Yeah, that was the really weird part of that interview with Clint. So you covered her to give her some form of dignity, yet you terrorized her and took her out of her home. We believe there's some sort of sexual assault involved.

And then you murdered her, but yet you're going to talk with pride about the way you left her body? It's just, wait, what? And eventually I saw this rock formation. And when I walked over there, there was, you know, not a lot of her left because this is animal territory, coyote, pigs. You know, it was a sad, very, very sad location. This obviously wasn't the result that anyone ever wanted.

So we just called the daughter and her husband, and they came down to the district attorney's office. And we told them, we have your mom at the coroner's office. So now that investigators do indeed have Nancy's body, their approach to Flores is markedly different when they get back in the room, because now that interview becomes much more of an interrogation. We then take him back to the station where we were standing with the prosecutor, and

And I said, what do you need me to get from him in case this is a death penalty case? Clint began to lean hard into Carlo to fill in some more of the blanks about what happened in the hours leading up to this assault. And we got him to admit a couple of days earlier she had brought him some tamales and was trying to convert him to the Jehovah Witnesses.

He admits that he basically saw her bringing him the tamales as flirting. And remember, her faith is very important to her. And part of her faith is trying to get others to think and believe the same thing. And he right away goes to, no, no, she's looking for something more. But that really speaks to more about the man we know behind the mask.

When he went out there, it was after midnight. So that's not the time you just go out to visit somebody who you don't even hardly know. You're just their painter. And Flores did go on to confess exactly what he had done in Nancy's home. But he did admit he went in there with the intent to rape her. He entered her home. He opens the slider. She hears him. And she gets up. And it was at this point that Nancy probably tried to dial 911.

But that call never went through. What I believe, she tried to call 911. He punches her, takes the phone from her. And what happened next can be described as nothing less than a struggle. A struggle for Nancy's life. She confronts him. He punches her in the nose, and that's the blood drops and the blood stain that I was talking about. She kept saying, why are you doing this to me? She knew who he was.

But then Flores decides to stop the confession right here. He refused to go on and explain what he did at that very moment.

And, you know, Scott, that is something that we often see. You know, there is a line, even when someone is confessing, especially in these sort of crimes that have a sexual assault component or a deviant component, that they're only willing to give so much. Yeah, I see it as a sense of shame in a way, because you can tell in these types of cases when it comes to this component, sort of a sexual component or a sexual assault component to a homicide,

They lower their head. They lower their tone of voice. If you read it properly, it looks like there's some sense of shame that they don't want to repeat that portion of the assault. He was in there for... I think he said he left around three. We couldn't get him to admit that, you know, were you having sex with her after she was dead? How many times did you rape her? He said it was just once. But the only thing we can figure out

If he wasn't still, you know, doing horrific things to her, was trying to figure out a plan. What he did go on to say was that he then drove her body to the Carrizo plane and dumped it. Flores waived his right to a jury trial, and a judge found Flores guilty of first-degree murder with enhancements for committing a crime along with a sexual assault and a burglary. Flores was sentenced to a life in prison without the possibility of parole.

Clint definitely strikes me as someone who really took many of his cases to heart. And it was the woman he never got to meet except after she had died that really seemed to strike the chord in Clint and what gave him that momentum to try to make sure that at least he could bring her home to her family.

Well, it's difficult. You just try and find a way to kind of compartmentalize it somewhere where you try not to think about it all the time. Because of our investigation, he pled to life without parole. What gives me some better feelings is he's never getting out. He'll never do this to anybody else.

Clint was very upfront in his conversation with us about the first time Flores came on his radar. That he interviewed him by phone instead of sitting down with him. Something upon reflection he would have done differently. But the facts showed that at the time that the phone conversation happened, Nancy was already dead. And for her family, her son, her daughter, and her five grandchildren, the efforts of investigators and prosecutors did bring them justice.

Clint acknowledges, though, it is still a case it's hard for him to put behind. When he starts telling us, you know, what he did to her, she was a complete innocent victim. She was just sleeping in bed and this happened to her. And so listening to that was probably the hardest thing.

This case really speaks to me about the secrets some people keep. You know, here's a guy who had a thing for older women and it was a focus of his porn, but that is such a far cry from murder. To then have it translate here to dominance, control, misogyny, sexual assault.

really speaks to the mysteries of the mind and that unfortunately remain the key to at least some of these cases and that we don't always know how to unlock those doors and see inside before it's too late. So I'm just left with rest in peace, Nancy Woodrum. Rest in peace. Tune in next week for another new episode of Anatomy of Murder.

Anatomy of Murder is an AudioChuck original. Produced and created by Weinberger Media and Frasetti Media. Ashley Flowers and Sumit David are executive producers. So, what do you think, Chuck? Do you approve?

Hi, I'm Ashley Flowers, creator and host of the number one true crime podcast, Crime Junkie. Every Monday, me and my best friend Britt break down a new case, but not in the way you've heard before, and not the cases you've heard before. You'll hear stories on Crime Junkie that haven't been told anywhere else. I'll tell you what you can do to help victims and their families get justice.

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