"Team Normal" with Adam and Felix Frisch
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Hey, folks, and welcome back to the Lincoln Project Podcast. I'm your host, Rick Wilson. Thank you so very much for joining us today. We're going to have a pair of guests today who are working very closely to win a seat in Colorado that a lot of folks had sort of written off, but I think it's winnable. I think it's close. And so I'm happy to welcome Adam Frisch today, who's running in the Colorado 3rd Congressional District out there on the Western Slope.

and is looking to show a lot of other Democrats a way to go out and win in rural areas and go out and win in areas that a lot of people would have written off. And Felix is helping run this entire inspired and really smart campaign.

So, Adam, thank you for coming on the show. I want to ask you just at the start, what does the landscape look like out now, right now in Colorado 3? How's the campaign going? How's fundraising going? All the normal questions that I would be asking you if we were sitting down in a professional capacity. And I'd love to hear how the land looks ahead of you.

Great, Rick, and thanks for all the work you do. We need more money, but we'll get into that later on. The landscape is this. Our district's bigger than the state of Pennsylvania. It is 50% of Colorado. So we have the entire western slope of Colorado, all the Utah border, a third of the Wyoming border, and about 95% of the New Mexico border as well. And I've driven about 60,000 miles. I'm home about five days a month. It's been like that for two and a half years since we got on this journey.

with Representative Boebert at first. We obviously had the closest race in the country that cycle. Everybody blew us off.

My son, Felix, next door to me here, he ended up taking his junior year of high school off, did school online. We drove about 25,000 or 30,000 miles together last cycle. He's deferring college for a year now. He just graduated from high school. And as I tell people, I'm not sure where Karl Rove and David Axelrod were when they were 16, but Felix is on his path, or where Rick Wilson was when he was 16. But

Kind of getting towards something similar when I was 16. So for better or for worse, I have to admire it.

Yeah. No, so it's great. Obviously, the Father-Son Road trip has been fantastic. You know, a couple other landscape things. You know, Trump is going to win this district by, you know, five, six, seven, eight points. That's just the lay of the land. Right. There are five current congresspeople in Trump districts right now serving. There's 18 Republicans in Biden districts. So there are ways to build trust, trust.

outside of just running around with Team Red or Team Blue. I'm very, very focused on Team CD3. We'll be one of the more conservative Democrats for sure in there, but we don't spend a lot of time talking about the national conversation. It really just is what our ranchers and farmers and steel workers and people in the recreation industry want in this district. Our district is, we have 27 counties, Rick,

We have counties that are 85% Republican. We have counties that are 85% Democrat. And we got in this race partly because of Lauren Boebert and partly because there's a monopolization going on in the cities as well as in rural America. And we want to break through that. So as you look out across this enormous – and folks, when he says it's bigger than Pennsylvania, it is hard for people from the East Coast in particular to get their heads around how enormous Colorado really is. Yeah.

And so that district is hundreds and hundreds of miles and nothing's a straight line out there. So what are the issues that you've seen so far that are driving the conversation, driving the decisions about where people are going to cast their vote this fall? And how are you working through that as a conservative Democrat in a pretty red area?

Yeah, you know, I think, Rick, everyone is exhausted with national politics. They're just so fed up with all the yelling and the screaming. They want people that they want to they want someone to find to do their job. You know, my buddy who Dean Phillips, I grew up with, he talked about this anger, tame industry that has a little bit on the left, a lot on the right, yelling and screaming. And our ranchers and our farmers, our small business owners are still workers down in Pueblo. They just want

for lack of a better term, the shit show to stop, if I can say that. And they want- You can say that. Yeah, they can focus on their jobs and it's not hokey.

People sit around the kitchen table and they're trying to figure out about the cost of health care. Mental health ranchers and farmers are sadly surpassing veterans and suicide rates. We have a lot of problems out here in western and southern Colorado about how rural it is. And we have more in common with rural Tennessee than we do with downtown Denver when it comes to health care conversations. Water is obviously very, very big as well from a conservation ranching and farming perspective.

how important water is. We want to make sure that water stays in the western and southern part of Colorado as well. Felix might tack on a couple of things here. No, I'll say it. What else are you guys seeing out there? Absolutely. I don't think we can underestimate the importance of pocketbook issues, at least at a congressional level. I mean, we get thousands of questions asked. We're at hundreds of different events with all sorts of people. We have people that walk in regularly.

uh, with MAGA hats and we have people that drive, uh, their, their Priuses and, and come in and it's all fine. And we ask, we get questions and none of them are about the national conversation. None of them are about who said who said what and inside the beltway in Washington, DC. It's,

How am I going to afford health care, child care? People are living paycheck to paycheck. And they just want someone that they feel shares their values, can represent them well in Congress, and is not going to be focused on, I think, entertainment again is just this perfect word. And so much of the chaos that I think people are so disenfranchised against. So, Adam, I think you came to the attention of a lot of Americans when you ran against Lauren Boebert.

And of course, Lauren Boebert, it was one of the closest races in the country in in, well, almost history. It was a fight down to the last the last. It was like Bush v. Gore level close. And yet after you got back in the race, Lauren Boebert ran away. Talk to us a little bit about how that happened.

It's been a wild ride, Rick. I was on my city council. My wife was on her school board. That's election-free service, and hats off to anyone who does that local stuff. But Bober made some comments at the end of the summer of 21. Don't ask me what they were. All I can say is they were on brand. And Felix and my wife, Katie, we started talking about this conversation about sometimes you have to stand up. And I went and did some analysis of

And there's probably 15 people that are in Congress that are nationally known. There's a handful on the left and a lot on the right, correct? And I looked at this data and I came to realize that Lauren Boebert was the only person, no matter how much money went into a district or how hard it was going to work, she was the only one that had a chance to lose.

Now, not a lot of people believe me. It was not easy when 538, with due respect, said we're going to lose by 40,000 votes. They did actually say the day after the election that our race actually had the biggest surprise in their model, in the history of the model. So we take...

A little bit of pride with that. But it was not easy convincing people. I'm like, listen, there's a lot of crazy people in the world, but there are not that many crazy people in the world. And if a moderate conservative Democrat could get by the primary, which wasn't easy, we could build a coalition, as I mentioned, this pro-normal party coalition my mom talked about. And it required a lot of miles on the road. I was on the road. I was home about five days a month.

for the 10 months that we were running our race and did it. And sure enough, we ended up having the closest race in the country, 546 votes. We went at it. We took about a month off to do it. We hopped back in the saddle again. She started running. We started generating money. We started generating some polling out there that showed that we were...

on her way. She had her whole Beetlejuice thing, which is a whole other story, which we never talk about. But she did do polling in December. And we don't know what the exact results were, but we did see some of the questions. And they were all about the general election. She would have had a tougher primary, but she would have won.

And for the first time in, we think, 20 years, a sitting congressperson packed up their bags and packed up their tail between their legs, and they hightailed over to the eastern part

of Colorado. So on one hand, we got a mission accomplished. On the other hand, I had wished that there were four or five good-souled Republicans that were running against her, and I tried to convince them, you know, listen, if you guys can all pick straws and come together, you can take her. She ended up getting about 40-some percent of the vote in the primary, and everyone else got, like, you know, the 10 to 12 percent. And the Constitutionist asked me, like, what's he going to be doing? Like, working with

the representative i'm like well you know that really wasn't part of my plan uh but as i said listen the the times that she's focused on colorado issues i'll work with her the other 97 of the time um i'm not going to spend a lot of time when she's running around on her egocentric entertainment thing so yeah it wasn't a while one of the things that felix and i talked about when back one is i'm like i said felix

If we start to do well in 2022, this thing's going to turn into a big deal because there aren't any other opportunities, sadly, to see this extremism shed from either side. And obviously, it turned into a bit of a big deal. And now we're just trying to reset and going back in here. We're going to be working just as hard. We're going to be talking about the same issues that really matter, cost of living.

healthcare, childcare, mental health access lacking in rural America and going on. I think in a lot of ways you've got, I think in a lot of ways it's a huge advantage to not have the stunt player in the race. Now it's just ordinary people

A competition between the ordinary politics we should have, a competition between ideas, policies, and personalities, not just who's going to blow the world up, who's going to be the craziest person on the set every day of the campaign show.

Which she would always win. You know, I would never try to fight. You know, that would not be our path, and it wasn't. People were really frustrated. You know, the good thing about her leaving is that there was a lot of people that came into this space on television, social media. They hadn't heard about her personal foibles and the family stuff and her lack of formal education. We never spent any time on that whatsoever whatsoever.

It was always about her policies, always about her voting against veterans, always against voting against different stuff. And we got blamed for all these other people that came in outside because they wanted to pick fun of her. And we don't pick fun of these. We talk about our issues. And so we're excited to have a much clearer and less cluttered conversation at the level. Right.

And we're excited to have that conversation. And we're still getting some national exposure. But again, it's hyper local focused issues. And that's what we want to do.

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I think one thing, Adam, and the last time I saw you a few weeks ago when I was out in Colorado, I was thinking about this. You're basically running –

kind of old-fashioned campaign. A lot of campaigns now are all about the national conversation. They don't care about local issues. They don't care about their constituents. They want to get and do hits on TV. They want to talk about whatever's going to drive email engagement. And you've actually built a campaign that I really admire because it is

going out, doing the one-on-one conversations that, you know, when you're elected to Congress, I promise you, you're going to be able to go, hey, I talked to this guy in Pueblo and I remember this issue and here's what I can do to help it in Washington. I mean, that to me is a campaign that I think if America saw more campaigns like that, the cynicism about politics would be lessened pretty meaningfully. Yeah. You know,

People are frustrated with both parties. Everyone has been working very, very hard in their lives and they feel like they're just falling behind. In the '60s and '70s and '80s, you could actually have a factory job and you were not living paycheck to paycheck. I grew up in Minneapolis, next door is Michigan, obviously the classic story. You could buy a snowmobile, you could buy a pickup truck, you could have a cabin, you could save for college if that was the path, you could have some vacation time.

That ability, that level of income, even adjusted for inflation, that's just gone. You look at how much expensive health care is. You look at child care. You look at housing. They have not been going up a 2 percent a year, especially over the past 20 years. And listen, and Trump figured out in a really horrible, pessimistic way to get into that.

You know, I'll share this with you. There's 3,100 counties in the country. We're at 2,000 of them are rural, defined by the Department of Agriculture, all based on density, which is pretty much our 27 counties. Bill Clinton won half of the rural counties in the country. Rural America in the mid-'90s was 50-50. Twelve years later, Barack Obama, he wins 25%.

of the rural counties. Barack Obama won Iowa twice, Indiana once. I've said it with respect to a lot of people, these 20 big cities are not always getting the best version of the Democratic Party in my mind with humility. And a lot of rural America is certainly not getting the best version of any party or the Republican Party for that matter, because it's 90% Republican.

And I just spend my whole time not focused on Team Democrat or Team Republican, but Team CD3. And I have their backs. And people, there just aren't that many partisan people out there. We don't spend time on Twitter and everything else like that. We're out there meeting people where they are. We were just in the union hall yesterday or two days ago down in Pueblo. We got a factory meeting.

A tour of a manufacturing plant. We're meeting with school board, kind of school district people, just to find out what is going on in the community and what matters to people. I'm not here to write legislation, what the school board should be teaching, but it's interesting to hear what's

about what people are going through. Kids are not showing up ready to learn. Teachers have turned into social workers. Police officers have turned into social workers. Firefighters have turned into social workers. There's a lot of mental distress out there. And it's because people are not focusing on what really matters to the pocketbook kitchen table issue. And those things sound hokey, but they're true. You know, but that I think comes down to it again, is like that distance between

between the parties is enormous. But inside the parties, in both parties, there's a perverse incentive structure. You know, with the Republicans, the incentive structure is to go further and further and further out to the right. Democrats, the opposite. And that idea of, again, that idea of constituent service, that idea of being somebody who is engaged with the communities in your district is something I think that when you're elected, I think you'll have a great value from that.

I've worked for members of Congress and the US Senate before. I've done campaigns for both. The ones who liked being on the road in their states, the ones who actually liked meeting people, being with people, engaging with people,

They always were better legislators and better leaders because there was a connection to the district. I mean, and that's the thing I like about you a lot, Adam, is the iconoclastic nature of this campaign is, you know, you're climbing a steep hill with a lot of these cultural conservatives out there. But on the other on the on the flip of that.

I think when they sit and have a conversation, I think when you invest the time in them and ask them to invest in you, there can be a reciprocity there that leads us out of some of the complete silos of partisan journalism. Felix is nodding here. Are you seeing that, Felix, as well? It's like, are people able to overcome –

the, you know, what they think they should do or vote based on like culture war stuff or whatever. And, and listen, Rick, 80% of people agree on 80% of the same stuff. And, and that's how it is. And if you ask people their priorities, it is about having a good paying job, being able to raise a family the way that they want to and live in the community that they cherish. That's a big thing out here in Western and Southern Colorado. People want to be here.

And the reason that they're not is because there's not enough economic opportunities. Our kids, some of my friends have to leave because they can't afford to live on the Western Slope and depriving – our next generation is being deprived of the economic opportunities and being able to live here. So –

And we were talking – the national politics is another thing that everyone agrees on that's gone way too insane. In Colorado, everything is pretty urban-centric with regards to our friends in Denver. And even Democrats, Republicans or independents –

Everyone is tired of, whether it's federal funding from all these infrastructure bills that were passed. It gets to Denver and then it kind of stops there. And we're doing as best as we can to be an authentic advocate. One of the reasons we ran was because Representative Lauren Boebert was not bringing any of the federal funding back to her district.

And she was not advocating for that. She was taking credit for it after she voted against it, of course. But we all pay a lot of taxes, and it's a congressperson's job to bring as much money as possible back to the district in forms of grants and infrastructure projects, whatever the counties need. And we are deeply in touch.

with what every city, at the municipal, at the county, and even some projects at the state level of what people need. Interchanges, water projects, these things are really important to local communities, and everyone agrees that we need more money for those kinds of things. Let me ask you about an issue that a lot of folks on the East Coast do not have a fundamental understanding of the centrality of the immigration question out West.

Talk to me a little bit about, Adam, where you see the immigration question in Colorado's CD3. What are people's thoughts about where we're at with immigration? Talk to me about the balancing test between a secure border and the economic contributions that a lot of immigrants make to this country.

Yeah, you know, Rick, it's really, really important out here. Obviously, the vast majority of people want the border fixed. We talked about we need to have a secure border. I would say two years ago, there were two conversations going on about we have 12 or 13 million people that are here. They're already integrated in our small communities through church and school and everything else like that. But the border has always been a bit of a mess, whatever. But

Just because it's on Fox News doesn't mean it's not true. And over the past couple of years, the White House has been slow to that conversation. And there are seven times more people on the border a couple of months ago trying to cross than there were a couple of years ago. Things have gotten a lot better in the past couple of months, but it remains a big issue. So you really can't get into the Doc and Dreamers and everything else onboarding more of our –

more of our people in our community, which we need to do until that border gets under control. So I'm hoping that we actually are starting to make some movement with that. But ranchers and our farmers, our hospitality, our healthcare workers, everybody needs more workers.

And it's also not just an economic argument. There's a reason, as I call this, a Statue of Liberty argument to be made. And there's a Chamber of Commerce argument to be made. For the past 25 years, there's been a lot of fighting at the national level and it's been very destructive on all sides to only argue about the Statue of Liberty. I would much rather see the economic argument to be made going forward about how integral and important it is as we try to figure out

how to onboard more of our community members that are here. Having said that, fentanyl is a huge mess. Fentanyl, a lot of people that are living in big cities in urban America, they're not seeing it on a daily basis. But all of our sheriffs, we were just with the sheriff down in Pueblo a couple of days ago. All these sheriffs are struggling with the fentanyl crisis, the opioid crisis. It's really affecting. And a lot of that is coming up through

the New Mexico-Colorado border. There is a way to have a secure border. We need to have more security. We need to have more legal immigration, but we need to have a lot less illegal immigration. We need to go back to that border agreement that was very, very Republican. I would have proudly supported it.

and more border agents, more judges to process people because our workforce needs it. By the end of the day, we need to make sure that we have a secure border and it's really, really important for security reasons and these drug crises that are happening. But the vast majority of people in our district understand how important, not just economically, but from small communities,

The newer people that have come to this, the country are up to this, and we need to figure out a way to do it in a legal and a processed way. It's just spun out of control. The order has been a mess, and we need to bring more order back down to this whole process.

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Let me ask you two questions, kind of to both of you. What's the easiest place for you to find agreement with folks you're talking to, and what's the most difficult place to find agreement? I think the easiest thing to find agreement on is water, and this is another thing that I think from the East Coast, it's a little bit harder to understand. You probably have too much water in the East Coast and in some other places with all these rainstorms and flooding situations.

in western colorado and southern colorado frankly the whole state of colorado we couldn't have enough of it it is the most it's the lifeblood of our state of our agriculture uh it's what keeps the food on our plates and our families fed um there's nothing more important we have aquifers underground water storage that's drying up all across the state and the farmers and ranchers especially in the san luis valley are feeling that um everyone uh

wants to keep that water in Western and Southern Colorado. California seems to be using more and more of it and less and less of it as a percentage basis coming to California or coming to Colorado. Well, we're doing our part to make sure that we're using it as efficiently as possible and saving it in here. So again, Republican, Democrat,

It doesn't matter. Water is super important, and that's something that we love to talk about. And I will say our opponent likes to talk about it as well, but a lot of his backers have spent their time trying to build a pipeline from the San Luis Valley that I mentioned earlier up to the Denver suburbs and steal their water. And that's something that we're firmly against, and we're trying to make a case that we're not going to let special interests or corporations or any of their hand-picked politicians decide what they do with our farmer and ranchers.

on the Western and Southern Colorado. - Yeah, no, I couldn't have said it better myself and very proud to have Felix running around with us.

You know, the hard part is the perception, Rick, out there. You know, just the yelling and the screaming between the two parties. So many people have just been taught you're either on team red or team blue or team Republican or team Democrat. And I meet people all the time like, oh, you don't sound like a Democrat. I get accused that by Democrats and I get accused that by Republicans. I'm like, listen, after being a father and a husband and a small business owner, you

I don't have – and an American in Colorado, and I don't have any room left for the partisanship. Like it's just not there in my – I'm overflowing with other stuff. And so the policies that we're trying to run on are just focused on what it is in small communities that they need. The problem is the branding of the Democratic Party. Listen, I was independent for 25 years. I've said as a citizen, like since I got out of college, if there was a Get Stuff Done Party, I'd be in the Get Stuff Done Party. I've said that for 30 years.

And my mom – If there was a stuff gun party, 65% of Americans would re-register tomorrow. Yes. Yes. And the other one is my mom, she's like, Adam, you just need a – it's like a pro-normal party. So I'm building a pro-normal party coalition, Rick, and that's what we've been talking about. And so the hardest thing is not the reality of where we disagree. It's the perceptions that someone walks in there. As soon as they see someone that's on that other team –

It gets really frustrated. Yeah, they get turned off by that. And it's on both sides. It happens on all sides. Sure.

And so we just spend a lot of time talking about what we're hearing and confirming and learning always about how important it is to have domestic energy in our country, how important it is to have a secure border that we can do with humanity, with humane, and the ability to have economic opportunity. And economic opportunity is harder out in the rural parts of the country. And we want to try to make that case.

And again, there used to be a more equal distribution over how people voted in urban areas as well as

as well as in rural areas. And that conversation has flown out. So we're swimming upstream, but we've earned the trust of a lot of people. You know, I have a little disjointed things in some of the things I say as people can hear me, but I'm authentic and sincere. And we work very, very hard and being really, really good listeners. And that is how we end up building trust from Republicans, independents and Democrats.

I think that as much as we're going to stay out of the national conversation, there is an element to –

Every race I've seen in the country right now where they feel that tug of gravity all the time. Yeah. What do you think about this decision or that issue or that candidate's, you know, actions today? Do you get many questions? You don't get many questions about that, though, really, do you? People really are. They really want somebody to help them and not play the parlor games of D.C.,

I made a case in '22 and we're making it again. I said this, like, I'm not focused on who you voted for in 2016 or 2020. I don't care what you do in the rest of the battle with the respect. I'm just asking you to think about you and your family, your business, your community. Who do you want representing you in the House of Representatives to tackle these kind of really important issues? Obviously, people know who I'm going to vote for or I'm not going to vote for the national issue, but I'll tell you 60,000 miles, I've never been asked. I literally have never been asked.

by a single person. They just know where I'm going on that. But I don't, I'm just creating sincere permission paths that I don't hold it against you about how you want to vote in county commissioner races or for different sheriff races and everything else like that. The one thing I will say, listen, we were one of the first people in the entire country on the Democratic side. July 2nd, I had an op-ed in the Washington Post that I asked for both parties to actually have a change in the guard. Obviously, one party seems to be pretty hell-bent on going one way. Um,

And I'm not beat up by some people. But as I made my comment, like with all respect to the president, only in politics is stating the obvious.

It's so rare. And we made our comments six or seven days after the debate. But what I will say, I don't know the differences of policies, whether it's Vice President Harris or President Biden. What I can tell you is there's a lot of people who are just really excited. The couch was going to rack up a lot of votes if there was not a change at the top of the ticket. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. We talked about that when we were out there. There was a – the whole thing seems sort of stuck.

The race was stuck and it was not going to change. And now it's changing rather radically. And I think one thing you should be, you know, to the good side of watching what you're you're you're probably going to end up with a greater amount of enthusiasm on your side. Yeah, that should help in some of these areas. And while you don't have a lot of big, big metros, it's going to help.

roll up some numbers in Aspen and Pueblo and some other places that will be more engaged, I think, because there is more optimism on that side of the ticket right now. Yeah, listen, Nikki Haley might be right. I think she said whichever party ditches their 80-year-old presidential candidates probably most likely going to win. So we'll see what happens.

Yeah, I think that may be right with that conversation. But it's been a joy. We have the prettiest district in the country. I'm happy to argue. I every time I'm out there, I am absolutely in love with it. My sisters lived in Colorado for 25 years now and never leave. Loves it so much. Yeah.

And, you know, it is a truly beautiful state. And I really admire the campaign that you're running. And Felix, I admire the work you're doing. You are learning stuff that will never, ever go away from your life. You will learn, you know,

Learning young in politics, you learn how to deal with people one-on-one. You learn how to talk to people. It is a skill that I've never regretted for a single second of my life. And I think it's great that you're taking this path. And Adam, I think you really are a candidate I really admire because you are doing the Lord's work of running the kind of campaign that's

Whether Americans realize it, that it's what they need or not yet, it's what they need. And it's what both parties need to see examples of because, you know, in a lot of swing districts, Republican and Democrat out there,

People like you are going to have a vastly better opportunity to communicate with voters. If you don't sound like you are rattling off Fox talking points on one side or MSNBC on the other, when you're engaged in the thing – I mean, look, that's the beauty of what the founders thought about a representative democracy. People close to their communities would represent them best. Yeah.

So it's, it's exciting and I'm keeping track of the campaign. Uh, I wish you all the best. Tell folks how they can follow you, reach you, donate to the campaign, et cetera. That's great. It's, uh, our website is Adam for Colorado.com. It's Adam F O R Colorado.com. Um,

We have a volunteer button up there. We're always looking for volunteers. There's also a donate button. We're very proud that our average donation is still $30. Our opponent was $1,000 on average last year, which might have set a record for sure. And so we're still getting a lot of these $20 and $30 and $50. We obviously can take up to $3,300. Again, we have...

you can always use the more money to tell our story because we have a lot of gas to fill up in our tank and we have four media markets out here. But there's ways to volunteer as well, whether you live in the district, live in the state or elsewhere. And we think it's going to be a very close race.

the entire time as the whole country landscape is going to be. And I just think people are refreshed and rejuvenated to hear about kind of this pro-normal party coalition that we're trying to build. And we've done a very good job last time. And even with the representative moving on, we've been able to generate the revenue, but more importantly, the excitement and the coalition that we're going to go going forward. And we're really excited about the opportunity to be here with you. And thank you for what you did, Rick. It's really, really important to try to figure it out. I appreciate that.

how to get back to, um, you know, a serious conversation where most people are. Team normal. Yeah. Team normal. Well, Adam and Felix, thank you so much for coming on the Lincoln project podcast today. I really appreciate it. Wish you all the luck in the world. Folks, look up Adam for F O R Colorado.com. And you will find out more about Adam Frisch and his campaign for the third district of Colorado. Uh, good guy. Great, great campaign. Uh,

and really a model for what we should be doing in this country. Thanks again, guys. Thanks. Have a great day.