Trevor Takes Us Behind the Scenes of the Grammys
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Hey, what's going on, everybody? Welcome to another episode of What Now? My name is Trevor Noah, and this is the podcast where we chat about interesting things with interesting people who hopefully have interesting things to say. This week's a really fun and cool episode because the Grammys just happened, and I was lucky enough to host it. So we're going to chat everything Grammys. Why do people win? Who should win? And all the drama with Jay-Z and Taylor Swift. Oh!

This is What Now with Trevor Noah.

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Okay, but if we're recording, everybody ready? Has anyone else got loads of background noise in their ears, or is it just me? It may be my fridge where I keep my breast milk. Let me unplug it. I'm not even fucking joking. I think it is me. Oh yeah, it is. Let me pull the plug.

I think she's going to move it to another fridge. Breast milk is so resilient, guys. Breast milk is so resilient. I'm telling you, I can tell you all about the qualities of breast milk. It's actually good for skincare. Good for skincare. During the strike, I was like, do I have to start selling my breast milk to bodybuilders to make some extra money? I considered it. Yes, that's a very real thing. For their skin or their muscles? Their muscles, breast milk. Like bodybuilders really like breast milk. See, Josh, Josh knows. Yeah, you can get really ripped off some breast milk.

You know, there are many ways to start a conversation. Breast milk is easily the last one I would have thought we would start. Normally we'd start with like, hi, hello. I mean, I love this because it makes it interesting. Welcome to breast milk. If someone is just listening now, they wonder if this is the beginning of the podcast. They're like, wait, I'm sorry, what did I miss? You didn't miss anything. This is exactly how it started. Yeah. I'm turning into a lactivist, basically. I'm a bit of a lactivist.

I'm all for it. I'm pro the breast milk. But happy podcast day, everybody. How are you all feeling? How's everybody doing? Happy podcast day. I'm doing pretty good. I'm good. Congrats on the Grammys, Trevor. You're amazing. Yeah, great job, man. Thank you so much. I should pass the congratulations along to my...

executive producer and captain Ben Winston. Congratulations, sir. Another Grammys. Congrats. Yeah. Great job, Ben. Oh, look at all this self-congratulations. No, no, no. It's about you. Can I tell you, there are a few gigs I've done in my life that are more stressful than the Grammys. Like it's exciting. It's fun. But I don't know of any other shows I do where messing up

will have such it's not just the ramifications from the fans but it's like I don't know if I could ever listen to Beyonce's music again if I screwed up in front of Beyonce does that make sense like I'd always think of her now oh yeah you know what I'm saying it's like it's too much stress like these are all the people who are like you know there's a soundtrack to your life

And now you're going to mess up. And then, you know, like imagine Lana Del Rey just shaking her head at you while you walk out of the venue. What I want to know, I saw today on the... I was looking at some photographs and there was like a photo of you and Beyonce just like chatting like old friends. When did you become like best friends with Beyonce? How did that happen? I would never say that. I've never become best friends with Beyonce. But I do have an amazing story. The Emmys was a bunch of weeks ago. I've lost track of time. I was flying in and...

And I needed to get my hair done. Now, my hairstylist doesn't have the salon that she was working at. I couldn't find a place to get my hair done. It's a Sunday. Nothing was working. Nothing was open. So I asked my hairstylist, Erin, I said, hey, can we figure out something? She goes, let me see. Let me see if I can figure this out.

She sends me a text and she says, hey, Trevor, Beyonce said we can use her private hair studio if you need to. So I go, which Beyonce? Because I don't want to assume. I mean, you know what I mean? It's like Beyonce who? No, because this is not my life. I'm honest. This is not my life. She goes, Beyonce, can you? I don't have Beyonce's number. I don't even know Beyonce like that. I'm not going to claim it. So.

She goes, yeah, Beyonce, Beyonce. So I'm like, okay, what does this mean? She says, here's an address. Just go there. And Beyonce is going to hook you up. And so I drive to an address in the middle of LA. I don't even know where this place really is. It's a nondescript. I walked past the entrance five times. There's no windows. There's no doors. There's no nothing. You basically knock on a panel.

almost like Harry Potter, like that platform and three quarters thing. The door opens up, there's a whole haircare laboratory and they go, "Ah, Trevor, welcome. Beyonce told us to expect you."

And I go in there and my hairstylist is waiting inside. And then she basically hooks me up with like some secret products that Beyonce uses, I guess. Wow. I love that. Yeah. And so now when I was at the Grammys, I just went to say thank you. Is that why you won? Is that why you won the Emmy? I wouldn't be shocked, my friend. It's good luck. Yeah. So I went to say thank you to Beyonce for saving my hair, which is a really crazy conversation I never thought I would have in my entire life.

I never thought I'd have anything to say to Beyonce, let alone, thank you for saving my hair, Beyonce. So that's the conversation we had. And we just talked about hair and how stressful it can be and, you know, how the right products can save the day. Looked at that.

That was a conversation. That's amazing. Did you watch, Josh? You only watch like UFC. Did you even watch the Grammys? And you don't have to lie because we're friends. No, no, no. I did watch a good portion of the Grammys, but I watched a lot of it in clips as it was happening. I mean, that's how most people watch these days. Yeah. But I know exactly what you mean about the whole, like, if you mess up in front of a person, it changes everything.

how you take in their stuff. Because I, okay, I think I may have even told you about this when it happened. I met Colin Kaepernick very briefly. No, you didn't tell me this. Oh yeah, yeah. I met Colin Kaepernick. We were passing by each other and this is before I got my twist in. And so I had an Afro, he had an Afro and I was pretty starstruck. I'm not gonna lie. And so I was just like, oh yeah, you and me. And I just pointed to our hair and he was like, yeah, yeah.

And then he kept walking and then I waited for my Uber. And every Nike commercial after that, where I saw Colin Kaepernick, I was like, ah, I botched it. Here's the thing. If you make a fool of yourself,

in front of a stranger, where will you be reminded of them? You know what I mean? You screw up in front of somebody you're going to see all the time. That's stressful. I'm not going to lie. I started leaning on the conservative side. I was like, get this man off a TV. Oh, man. But it was good. Ben, how are you feeling? I feel like you don't even get tired. I am exhausted. I'm running on nothing. Yeah.

No, I was tired. I was like, this sounds really pathetic, but I was more like emotionally tired. Yeah, yeah. I like work on that show for like four months. And then the last three or four weeks, it just becomes intense. And then the last few days, it's even more intense. And then the last hour before the show is the worst of all of it. Because that's when like everything that you've been planning for a year falls apart. Because like artists aren't showing up. And I mean, in my office before the show,

starts for the last two years I've done I've run the Grammys for four years now for the last two years that half an hour before we've gone live I would say without question are the two most stressful half hours of my entire life those half hours like that's it like just the stuff that comes in

And you just feel like you're sinking on a ship that you've been building for months. That's where the Mariah Carey got picked up in a golf cart. Is that real? Like on the freeway? 100% real. So we had... Wow. There was a demonstration that was going on in the area that was blocking all the cars from getting in. And so a lot... Because it was also at the storms. So we had one artist who went out to the red carpet and...

and had taken a wrong turning and now was trapped and couldn't get back in. And they were in like the beginning of the show. And then Sizzler had gone to get her glam done at a hotel locally after dress run. She couldn't get back. She was in part two. So it's a house of cards, that show, like the sets, we time it, how long it takes to take down Tracy Chapman's set.

to put up scissors set. We know it's exactly like eight minutes. We time that. So it's not like we can like push her later in the show. Then we get told that our presenters, Mariah Carey was presenting the first award. There's no way she was going to be there.

Casey Musgraves, Lizzo, Christina Aguilera, all of them not in the building, and it's 4:48. It was just an absolute nightmare. So we got Patrick Menton, our head of talent, co-EP of the show, got a guy in a golf cart, this is God's honest truth, to drive the wrong way down the 405, literally wrong way down the freeway, down what in England we call the hard shoulder, as in the thing on the, is that what you call it in America as well, the hard shoulder? - Josh, what do you call it? What do you call that out here? - I don't reference it at all.

Okay, so the bit that you're not allowed to drive in. They drove the golf cart over a mile, got Mariah Carey out of her SUV, stuck umbrellas to either side of it so she wouldn't get soaked. And I'm literally, while you're doing your jokes, Trevor, I'm trying not to stress you out. No way. Because I'm in your ears the whole time, right? And I'm going, no way. I'm like, take your time, take your time. Oh, Taylor's just like, Trevor is, I have to tell him, I have to give him his.

Props here. He's unbelievable at taking information live in your ear. But I was slowing you down because Mariah Carey was not ready yet. She walked through that golf cart, up that back, and you went and literally you hit it and they went, Mariah is ready. And you went, time for our first award. And I was like, oh my God. And that was only part one. We had another 13 parts to go. It's like by the end of it, I just want to like curl up in a ball and like sleep.

Can I ask you a question then, Ben? Anything. Okay. So do you think that some of the logistics and some of the stuff that makes it so stressful is because everyone is so A-list, like A++? I'm not advocating for myself specifically, but I am depressingly available.

If you ever need anything, I could be there on reserve. Well, firstly, I'll have you anytime, Trevor. That means a lot. But I reckon it is a bit like that. I mean, what do you think, Trevor? In that room, it's like walking around Madame Tussauds. It's unbelievable. But I think also everybody thinks they are Beyonce. So therefore, the issues of like,

dressing rooms and like who gets what and what time you're on and rehearsal time. Yeah, you are dealing with absolute A-list stars and it's also a big night for them because it's the Grammys. So it matters to them. Yeah. The biggest things I noticed is the difference between the Grammys and all other award shows is the Grammys is full of artists. Most artists live in a world where they're never told no and they work with people who

who essentially worship them and then they've got fans and they've got like, they are everyone who's sitting there is the number one person in their lives. Whereas if you do like, let's say you're at the Emmys or the Oscars or any of those, yeah, you've got superstars, but a lot of the people are used to being, you know, number three on a call sheet or they're not the star of the movie there or cameo. And they know what it's like to be a co-star. They know everyone at the Grammys is full on A-list like everyone.

Were you taken aback by Jay-Z's speech, which I have opinions on? Ooh wee! Think about that. The most Grammys, never won album of the year. That doesn't work. Some of you, some of you are going to go home tonight and feel like you've been robbed. Some of you made it, Rob. Some of you don't belong in the category. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, when I get nervous, I tell the truth.

How did you guys feel about that? I mean, I'll tell you this much. I didn't expect it. I felt a little bit like Mike Myers. Remember when Kanye was doing his... Oh, it wasn't that level. Like George Bush doesn't care about black people. Because I was standing... Okay, you've got to understand this for me. I've just presented Jay with the Dr. Dre Award. Sorry.

So I'm on stage. I'm standing to the side. I'm expecting Jay-Z to come up and make a speech. And I expect it to be a speech the way everyone makes a speech. You reach for the stars, dream big. This is inspiration. Hope for the best. Thank you so much. I love you all. Good night. That's what I'm expecting. And then Jay gets up, starts his speech. And there are moments where I'm like, am I hearing this correctly? Because I'm behind him. You can't really hear exactly what... I'm like, did he? No, I don't think he said that.

And people are laughing. I mean, it was almost like a roast meets an acceptance speech. I liked it, though. I will say that. I liked it. I like it when people are honest. I won't lie. I loved it so much. I thought that he did the slap to everybody. The way that Will slapped Chris, he did the slap to... Some of y'all don't even belong in your category is like... Because he's not naming names. So it's like maybe everyone here... Yeah. I mean...

Just on a purely human level, I was like, it was a great husband move. You know, that was like, it was good to see him as a good husband, especially post-Lemonade. So I was like, good job, Jay, sticking up for your wife. But then I'm like, why go?

Because if I was that rich and I felt you were insulting my spouse all the time, I'm staying at home. Like, that was a thing. Like, it was an unexpected turn. And I'm like, I wonder what's simmering under that. Like, do you still crave the approval of this institution that you feel not just disrespects you and your wife and people like you, hip hop, like, why are you there? Like, that was the contradiction that I felt.

I couldn't really take in. But, you know, we're all a bundle of contradictions, but I'm not showing up. If I feel that insulted, maybe, again, I'm Nigerian. I get insulted all the time and I hold grudges. As they say in House of Cards, I don't just hold grudges, I nurse them. So I'm not coming if you have, like, overlooked me for album of the year multiple times, but...

there was a lot going, there was a lot to unpack in that moment. I think that he showed up because you can only slap in person. Do you know what I mean? Like, like if, if this is, if this is the thing of like, I know you're going to, you're going to give me my accolades, but I want to make it known how you've treated my wife. That's something that can only be done in person because I think there's something that's powerful about your presence. Okay. So here's, here's the thing I'll say. Jay-Z or anyone for that matter, who has, um,

any type of beef with how awards have been handed out or what the categories are, which by the way is not unique to the Grammys. I mean, the Emmys will have this, the Oscars will have this, people will complain about what's in which category and who gets nominated, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I think there is a strange...

paradox in that on the one hand, you can say something by staying away. On the other hand, you are complaining so that the thing will change because you wish for it to change in the future. Do you know what I mean? Because it does have legitimacy. It is an institution. It is this, you know, it's a strange one because on the one hand you're going, I think the Grammys could be better. That's why I think he's saying that. But on the other hand, you're going,

I also appreciate the Grammys as a concept and that's why I've come and that's why I always come. The two things can be opposite and true at the same time. That's what I think. I don't think he was as disrespectful to the Grammys as has been taken. I really don't. Like, don't forget, he stood there, him and his wife between them have won 60 Grammys.

as a couple. So he stood there as a real honored guy. Listen, I have nothing to do with the awards. Literally, I'm not even an Academy member. I can't vote. I make the TV show with you, Trevor. I've done it for the last four years. Of the last four years, they've turned up three out of the four. The only one they didn't come to was the one in Vegas in the COVID year that they came. Last year they came and this year they came. So I think that it matters to them. And I think the Grammys and the Recording Academy matters to them as an institution. And I think any institution that matters to you, you want it to be run right.

And you care about that. I respect that. And I also think fair play to the Grammys for like not minding him. It's sort of going, you know, speak your whatever you feel. He also gave it credit. He said the Black Music Collective had done a lot of good work. So I think, yeah, he feels like Beyonce should have won an album of the year. Which I second, by the way. Ben, I'm gonna let you finish. I'm gonna let you finish. But I do think Beyonce should have won for one of the greatest albums of all time. We're going to continue this conversation right after this short break.

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How is it that somebody can win the Grammy in like almost every category that they're nominated in except in Album of the Year? I find that strange. I also find it strange in like the Oscars sometimes where they'll do that. They'll say best...

best this, or you know what I mean? And then they won't win like the main one. And I'm like, wait, but how, how did you have the best actors, the best directors, the best everything, but it wasn't the best movie. I have a take. Go shoot. I think if you think about the Academy voter, uh,

It's some sound engineer who's an audiophile who cares about like the mixing, the mastering, how cohesive something is. So I think like Grammy voters care about artistic purity and they like records where there are maximum one or two producers and one or two writers and hip hop's issue for them. And I think this does come down to like some systemic issues. Samplings.

It's really hard to win album of the year if you have an album that has a ton of samples, a ton of producers and a ton of co-writers. And Adele, for good or for bad, she's seen as like a pure artist because it's just her, a guitar and some bloke who has a co-writing credit on it. Yeah, that's a valid point, actually. I'm just looking about the voter. They're not engaging with art in the way we are. We're like, oh, I don't,

I was in the club and I loved hearing Drunk In Love. He's like, well, I think the sound engineering on this album was great. I only see two credits. Beyonce has a lot of credits on her album. I never thought about the credits thing, to be honest with you. Now that you say that, Christiane, I wonder if there's just a disconnect in what the people are feeling.

Like Meek Mill said this about the hip hop category in general. He said, Grammys has never liked street hip hop. And he may be right. The thing that people like in the streets may not match up with the people's purists ideas or the, you know, if you're an expert in it, or if you work in like really in depth with it, maybe it's, maybe you see it differently. I can see that. Yeah. And like best new artist is another category. I remember one year, I think it was Esperanza Spalding who won. Yeah.

Yeah. Like the public, when I'm thinking about her, right? But the Grammy voter that listens to a certain type of music is like, I love the musicianship. She's like a classically trained jazz musician. No, she's phenomenal. They're going to vote for her, even though she probably doesn't have like the pop cultural sensibility. And I think Beyonce is too masked.

for the Academy voter. And that's a part of the reason why she just isn't going to get the votes. They're the Electoral College. I think they're the Electoral College and we're like the popular vote. And the Academy are the Electoral College and they're always going to go in a direction that you don't expect. I mean, Megan Thee Stallion won it, Best New Artist, four years ago. Victoria Monet won it. This year, Samara Joy won it and Olivia Rodrigo won it. Those are the four. So interestingly, of the Best New Artist, only one of them

you'd go, it's pop. So it's interesting how it's quite varied. Last year's an out-and-out jazz artist, Samara Joy. I got upset that the conversation last year became so much about Beyonce not winning Album of the Year and Harry beating her because I think Samara Joy is...

maybe one of the most important Black jazz singers of her generation. And it's like, no one even cares. Because everyone's like, Beyonce, who I do love, but I think her oversized impact means that we think she has bigger problems than she actually has. And I'm like, I think it's a bigger problem that Samara Joy is the future of music. And we're not even talking about her win. And it's just like, we just glided past it. And we're talking about this quote unquote, injustice of Beyonce losing, which it is an injustice, but I don't think it's the only

I'm just caging all of this because I don't want the beehive to come and show up at my house because I've got two kids and I don't need those problems. It really is amazing how in life you can have everything, but if you do not get the thing that you want, the everything can seem like nothing in comparison. It's pretty amazing. And I'm not saying this just about like, let's say Jay-Z talking about the Beyonce. I just, just people in general, literally in that moment, just after it was done, I was thinking to myself, man, it's amazing how...

we can get every, and I mean everything, everything, everything, everything. I honestly find that fascinating. Yeah. And look, not, this is me not running a bit on you, but this is literally like a thing I've talked about with friends over and over that I wish for everyone that I've told, I've told audiences this. I'm like, no matter who you are, where you are, what your life is, I hope that like,

two-third of your dreams come true because two-thirds is still most so when they do the movie of your life that's still most things you accomplished a lot but not having a third means that you can chase things without seeming crazy i like two-thirds actually i was um so i i got the um the apple vision pro right and it's interesting two of my friends got it as well the

The three of us have these Apple Vision Pros and we're comparing notes and both my friends were like, I'm returning them. I was like, what happened? They're like, yeah, I just, like, I don't know, man. It just doesn't like, I thought it would do more of this and I thought it would do. And what was amazing to me was seeing how they put it on their heads.

for the first hour, they were mesmerized. You know when people, it's almost like when you hear these stories of, you know, traders, you know, showing people mirrors for the first time and them losing them. That was them. They were like, I can't believe it. It's like I'm in another world. I'm on the moon.

I'm on the moon. This feels amazing. And then an hour later being like, oh, I wish it wasn't as heavy. Then I was like, you're on the moon. You were on the moon an hour ago. You really felt like you were on the moon. And now all of a sudden you're complaining to me that the thing that makes you feel like you're actually on the moon might be a little bit heavy. You ungrateful son of a, I couldn't believe that these people were saying this shit. Cause I was like, yeah, it's a little bit heavy.

But like, you know what doesn't weigh anything? Nothing. That's what doesn't weigh anything. Genuinely, I couldn't believe it. That two-thirds thing, because I literally told both of them, I was like, take it back, take it back, and allow me to enjoy my Apple vision. I'm in the future right now. Like...

I feel like I'm literally in the year 4,000. There's no weight on my face. I take that thing off and literally my cheekbones, they don't, I'll work my cheekbones. I'll get stronger cheekbones. I don't care. And it's funny you say that, Josh, because like I, maybe that's even the answer to living a happy life, right?

is acknowledging that you always have one third of your dreams that aren't met and then being happy with the two thirds that are. Yeah, that's why some of my dreams are just being taller. Things I know will never happen. Yeah. Well, you can do the taller. You can do the shin implants. No, no, no. You can do the six inches. No,

You can do leg lengthening, Josh. I'm not thick enough for that. What do you mean you're not thick enough? If I do that, I will snap in half. If I get taller without gaining some more weight. You don't need to get bigger, Josh. You can just get taller. Oh, no. That would look horrible. I mean, I've actually told a lot of people this. Like, whenever I meet, like, a nice tall man, I immediately get upset. I'm like, you're wasting all that height. Yeah.

God knew what size to make me because if I was big, I'd be a problem. I would, I'd be telling everybody what I think. I'd be, ooh. Oh, oh, before I forget. Okay, what do you think was a bigger scandal from the Grammys?

And I mean, I say scandal. These things will go away tomorrow. Was it the Jay-Z speech or do you think it was Taylor Swift not looking at Celine Dion when she got the award? Let me tell you, just an African in me, you have to greet your elders. It wasn't that. It was just Celine Dion. It's an older woman. I would be like, hello, auntie. Thank you. Then you do your speech. I didn't like it.

So some of my friends were at the Grammys, Africans, and they were all saying the same thing. They were just like, no, but Trevor, how, how can, how can, no, no, no, no, no. Hold on. To be fair, she was excited. She just won album of the year. I don't think she meant disrespect by it in any way. I think she was just excited. I'm not,

By the way, I'm not saying she meant anything. No, I think she was just excited. And it looked like they were cuddling backstage and all that and getting along. So I don't think there was anything untoward. And I think she was just really excited about winning out of the year. Ben, it's a real cultural thing. In my culture, like I couldn't even come downstairs and see my dad and not say good morning. Like it's like a real thing to see somebody and not just say hello. Like I walk down the street, I say,

to hello to every old person I see. If you're younger than me, you're supposed to say hello to me. If you're older than me, I say hello to you. She didn't greet that lady. She just said, just thank you. Honestly, in those moments, speaking from experience, humbly, you do black out a little bit when it's like a major moment. But what I found myself wondering is like, do we need our stars to be nice to

I'm not saying she is or isn't. I don't know her enough to say she is or isn't, but I'm asking the question, do we need these people who create things to be nice? When I was a child growing up in South Africa and we went to the butcher, the butcher wasn't very nice. He chopped the meat. He weighed the meat. He wrapped it in a bag. He gave it to us. All we wanted was good meat. Thank you very much.

When we were driving in the streets and there was a policeman who was guiding the traffic, he wasn't like friendly or anything. He was doing his job. He was moving things from point A to point B. We were like, yeah, whatever. And I'm not even saying I'm for this, but I sometimes ask myself the question, when did we become so obsessed with everyone being nice to everyone and everything being like smiley, happy? Do we need that?

Like, do you remember that campaign back in the day? Charles Barkley, he got into like a whole bunch of trouble way back in the day in his basketball career. And then he had a campaign. I think it was a Nike campaign where he came out and the whole campaign was, I'm not a role model. He was basically like, I'm here to dunk the ball and to win the game. I'm not a role model. But maybe it's just that. Maybe it's the expectation clashing up against the moment of reality, which again, I'm not saying because...

because I also do not want the Swifties coming for me because I also have children at my house. - Ben, I was on your side of like, people are making a lot out of a moment and it's like a moment that we don't know everything about. We saw it very quickly and we think we know everything that happened.

And I just think that that expectation is on people who do put out positive messages. You know what I mean? Like this impossible platform. Okay, but then why are we as a society so keen to pull down anyone who puts out a positive message into society? They try to make us be better. Ain't nobody want that, Ben. Don't be trying to improve me. All right? You saw how we deaded Jesus. Don't go anywhere because we got more What Now? after this.

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Were you worried, Trevor, when you started your monologue that literally no one who you were making jokes about was in the room because everybody was stuck outside? Because I was worried for you. I was trying to be as relaxed as I can. I'm literally in his ear going, Trevor, everything's fine. It was not fine. Everybody's on their way. I'm sounding like a pilot. I'm literally going, we are going to go live to air in a minute and...

And everybody's on their way. So just do the jokes and it will be fine. We'll be back with you in 30 seconds. Yeah, it was not fine. Tell me about it from your perspective. So live TV is live. The Grammys is weird because...

because everyone's trying to get to a venue that isn't particularly easy to get to. LA's got terrible traffic, there's flooding, and then it's like, there's tons of security, et cetera, et cetera. So this is all stressful. In this moment in particular, you're about to do something in a room where people aren't even sort of in yet. You're talking about them and to them, and they're not there. In my head, I'm going, well, ride this thing out and then hope for the best. But nobody, nobody's there. I'm literally scanning the room, praying that I will see anybody there.

Anybody, anybody, anybody in their seats. So you're looking around and you're like, oh, thank God, there's Ed Sheeran. Oh, thank God. Okay, okay, there's 21 Savage. Oh, thank God. All right. Like when Meryl Streep came in, I was already a fan of Meryl Streep's.

And now I will fight somebody for Meryl Streep now. I will go to bat for her. First of all, she's Meryl Streep. She didn't need to like run in because she was late. This is something Meryl Streep does not need to do. She ran in. She's going to be in this chair. I can't believe that Meryl Streep is here. I really can't believe it. Because I mean, oh, what? You thought I was lying. You thought I was lying.

You don't have to apologize to me. Meryl Streep. Yes. Yeah. And this moment right here, you know what that means? It means the Grammys is going to win an Oscar. Yeah. I don't know how, but we just did it. She apologized for being late in a really like nice, respectful human way. And I was just like, this is Meryl Streep. She was fun with it. She played with it. She had a good time with it.

In that moment, I was like, okay, everything is going to be okay. And thank you, Jesus. I think we're going to get through this thing. And then I, and then I was just like, you know, it's fine. I was stressed for like three minutes. Two things were genuinely amazed about that. One is when you got to the Meryl Streep bit, she literally walks in. And then when you got to the Taylor Swift bit,

I'm literally hearing that she's walking in and it was total coincidence that as you got to the bit about her, that she is literally coming in at that moment. As our parents would say, Ben, look at God, look at God. Yeah, it's Bichette, meant to be. But the thing was, I think about that is,

It's the only show that a monologue is done in the audience amongst the people. Yes. That is tough because most of the time with comedians at the beginning of a show, they're on a stage, they're safe, they've got their prompter. We literally stick you in amongst it. And the reason we do it is two reasons. Firstly, I think it's much more of an interesting what.

I think you walking around that room shows off who's in the room. But the second reason is the Grammys is the most difficult show because you've got to clear that stage for the next artist. So actually, we don't have space for you on the stage to stand because we're getting rid of Dua Lipa's cage and her glass rotating spirally thing. So actually, I'm just like, Trevor, would you mind just doing it in the audience? But like, there's no award show I've ever seen where it's like that. And now I think that's what people are

to a certain extent watching for, and they did in their many millions, we're very happy about that. But like, it's cause you're just like walking around and strolling about like a fan, but also just making jokes about them. But that is a lot of pressure on you. And very unlike any other standup comedian doing an award show. I, I both love and hate it. I love it from a, from a producer's perspective. I see why you, why you wanted to do it. And I enjoy that element of it as a performer. I go, this is,

It's chaos. Like already stage comes with a whole lot of stress. Do you know how hard it is to deliver a joke when you're on a stage to an audience? And now you go like, no, why don't you be in the audience? How about that? Why don't you do that? And then why don't you let some of the audience members walk by while you're doing it? The moment we hate most in a comedy club is when the check comes in.

And everyone is like looking at the check and trying to figure out who pays for which drink and servers are walking in, the waiters are handing like food. And that is the worst moment in a comedy club because no one's paying attention and

Nobody's listening to what you're saying. And then the Grammys comes along with Ben Winston and they go, you should do that, but for like 15,000 people. What about, why don't you do it like that? One of the main things I was really impressed with is that when you're doing that sort of thing, you know, we're in a new age and a lot of people think they could do crowd work. And it's...

Ooh, is that some change, Josh? Is that some change? A lot of people love like, hey, what do you do? That job? Crazy, right? But you over here, you really in, do a leap of faith. You really next to the person. And I don't know. I was just like, that's a real command of a room. It's terrifying. I won't lie to you guys. It's terrifying. But I do enjoy it. And I mean, I also love the night. I go, guys, we're not saving lives tonight.

I do think entertainment is an important aspect of life, but we're not saving lives. We're enhancing them, hopefully. So let's have fun. Let's enjoy it. Let's see what happens. That's why I even appreciate these moments.

I appreciate the moments where Jay-Z comes on stage and just throws a little spice into the pot. Like just, man, thank you, Jay-Z. Thank you. Like if Jay-Z can't do it, who can? Maybe he'll inspire more people to do it. You know what I mean? This is life. It gets people interested. It gets us talking. It's like, it's entertainment.

My highlights of the night was still, I like that it didn't overshadow things because Tracy Chapman was still like the highlights of my night. And it seems like everyone's night. Oh my God. When she got the standing ovation. Yeah.

Ben, the directing, the producing and that shot of her face where it's like the emotion, she looks like she's going to cry. Like it was just, it felt like something from a movie. Imagine like we've just watched the biopic and 30 years later, she's finally getting accolades. It was just, I felt it here. That was a beautiful moment. Good job, guys.

Beautiful. It was beautiful. Yeah, she's number one. I think she was number one on iTunes. Yeah, she is. She deserves. People who didn't know her were like, who is this? And then people who did were like, oh my God, this was... It is those moments juxtaposed against the other moments that make it all so beautiful. It's not perfect. It's not pristine. It is two thirds of what we wanted and one third of what we didn't. But you know what? That's what makes it so amazing. And real quick,

Actually, you know, that's such a great place to cut. You may want to cut everything I'm saying, but like I do have a quick question because you talked about, you know, getting two thirds, not getting the third. Is there a reason that best rap album wasn't televised?

I think we'll cut before there, won't we? Yeah. No, I mean, that's fine. Like I said, I saw this coming. I think you were right at first. Yeah. No, I think you were right. So I have to choose which awards go in the show. We only have room for 10. There's 93 Grammys that are given out every year. And I basically choose 10 that I think they could make the show.

And so I always have the four best record album, new artist.

and song. Those are like the big four. And then you do country and then you do a Latin, that's six. And then I did two pop ones, which you do pop album and best pop solo performance, which is quite common to do two pop because that's where a lot of like the mega stars are. Then usually it's rap album. And I decided that I thought we should do an R&B award because there were some amazing nominees in R&B. There was like Coco Jones, there was

Victoria Monet, there was SZA. And I just thought that was a really good award. And then because of the Dre award going to Jay-Z, I felt like that was a big rap one. And we also had two rap performances in Travis Scott and 21 Savage in Burner Boys. And last year we did like 18 minutes of hip hop plus that hip hop 50 tribute, which was like the show was dominated by it. And we had Jay-Z ending it on God Did. So I just felt like actually it was nice to give R&B a bit of shine.

That's why. There was nothing more to it than that. So yeah, R&B song replaced it this year, but maybe that was a mistake. I don't know. No, I think it was the right decision. But hearing your rationale for it, Ben, I'm glad you said that. Yeah. Josh, why didn't you ask about rock album not being televised? That's exactly right. Why not rock album? Because when I think about how I spend my time, it's so much more invested in best rap album than it is best rock album. I think that's one of the hardest things about these kinds of shows is

is that everyone takes for granted that everyone is listening to their music and everyone thinks that their music is the music that should be listened to. I'm also one of those people where sometimes I see an artist nominated or a category and I'm like, who are these people? And it's like, yeah, you just, you don't listen to them. But does it mean that they're any less deserving of the spotlight and that moment? I don't think so. By the way, comedy, best comedy album wasn't screened or televised at all. I know, I know, I know.

I listened to a podcast on the way home last night, which probably wasn't a good idea. It was like a review of the Grammys. And I take it all. I work so hard on it that I actually probably shouldn't listen to like review podcasts about it. And they were like, oh, hip hop has been overlooked. And I was sort of thinking to myself, I just don't know how you can look. That is such a hip hop fan saying that because if you were a country fan right now, you'd go, we got one performance.

And that was really Tracy Chapman. And I'm not sure you would 100% argue that Tracy Chapman's a country artist and Latin didn't get a look this year. And rock got like two and a half minutes from U2 and hip hop gets so much love. So I think it is difficult. You're right, Trevor. People speak from their own perspectives. My job, I think-

is to program that show to do the best I can to make sure that I have something for everybody, whether you're Auntie Margaret in Alabama or you're a cool kid in New York, there's something for you. You only get a viewing figure for a burner boy if you follow it up with a Billy Joel. So I think you've got to find that balance so that you can actually get

audiences for these new artists get people excited by Victoria Monet get people excited by Burner Boy get people because they're watching the other ones that they come for I love how many how many rabbit holes or trap doors you can fall down with this someone will go

why wasn't rap album in the awards? But then when you even go into rap album, Killer Mike wins it. And I don't know if you saw, guys in hip hop were like, how the hell can Killer Mike win it? Who the hell is Killer Mike? Nobody's listening to Killer Mike. The streets don't listen to Killer Mike. And then like guys like Meek Mill were like, the Grammys has never appreciated street hip hop. And it's so interesting how even in the category, rappers themselves are like, you do not deserve to be in this category.

Even though you are hip hop and now they're fighting. And so at the end of the day, it really just boils down to people generally agree with the thing that they agreed with before it happened. And it is very hard for us as people to then agree with something that happens when we did not think it would or should happen. That's one of the hardest things.

to think about. Yeah. People are going to argue and go down the rabbit holes all day, I think. Yeah. At least people are talking about it, I guess. Yeah. At least people had fun. I think that, Ben, you did a great job. Yeah. You should pat yourself on the back. Don't listen to the haters. You did great in a situation. No, just hear me out. In a situation where you were making an award show that requires voting. And this is America. We don't vote well anymore. Yeah.

You're right. Absolutely. What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by Spotify Studios in partnership with Day Zero Productions, Fullwell 73, and Odyssey's Pineapple Street Studios. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Ben Winston, Jenna Weiss-Berman, and Barry Finkel. Produced by Emmanuel Hapsis, Marina Henke, Jess Hackle, Natalie Pert, and Chelsea Williamson. Music, mixing, and mastering by Hannes Braun.

Join me next Thursday for another episode of What Now? What now?