Part Two: Kent Hovind: Fake Dinosaur Scholar and Accidental Child Killer
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Hey, everyone. Robert Evans here. And I wanted to let you know we're doing another fundraiser for the fifth year in a row for the Portland Diaper Bank, which provides diapers to parents who wouldn't be able to afford them. Otherwise, if you go to BTB Fundraiser for PDX Diaper Bank, GoFundMe. That's just type BTB Fundraiser for PDX Diaper Bank, GoFundMe into Google. And you can donate there in order to help out some people who really need it with some diapers.

Oh my God. Welcome back to Behind the Bastards. Oh my God. Speaking of great bits, you know what's not a great bit, Molly? Tax protesters. I was going to say pedophilia because- Oh no. I'm going to be honest with you. I picked Kent because we had just had some hard episodes. This has been a tough year and we had some hard episodes specifically dealt with pedophilia and the German left. And I was like, I'm going to do Kent Hovind, you know?

Something lighter. Wacky dinosaur guy, tax protester, sovereign citizen. Nah, man, there's some pedophilia in here. Kids are still getting touched. It's not Kents. He's not a pedophile. Maybe. He might be, actually. It's kind of weird. Can you say that? Yeah. It's an open question, Molly. People are asking. But you know what's not an open question? The fact that the cold open is done.

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We're back. We're warmed up from the cold open. And when we left off with Kent, he had started preaching a new gospel that Christians are immune to taxes if they just claim to be ministers and anyone can be a minister. Now, this is not how the law works. Partially, this is how the law works, right? Churches get away with a lot of tax bullshit they shouldn't, right? But there are things you have to do.

You can't just say there's paperwork and like they aren't immune to taxes. For example, church payrolls still have to pay income tax. Right. You can't just walk outside and say, I'm a church. I'm a church. It's not that simple. Yeah. Now, in a letter, Kent wrote outlining his beliefs for fans of his 15 and a half hour lecture series on taxes. He marks the source of his break with the federal government as income taxes, which are communist, quote.

Right.

I don't really know how we got here. I'll tell you, Molly. So the idea that there's tin planks by which communists destroy a society so they can take over is a common conservative bugbear to the present day. You can find people talking about the tin planks of communism all over the place.

What they are actually referring to is chapter two of the Communist Manifesto, which Kent did get right. It was written in 1848, right? The chapter is titled Proletarians and Communists. And Marx does not lay out tin planks by which communists can take over a society. But he does describe the ways in which the revolution of the working class will, in his eyes, progress to raise the proletariat to the ruling class and win what he describes as the battle of democracy.

Mark states that he believes that in most advanced countries, a victorious proletariat will engage in a number of activities like abolition of property and land and a heavy progressive income tax, which is number two on a list of activities he thought would be generally applicable.

So number one, this is different from what Kent's saying. He's not saying this is how we destroy a society. He's saying that in advanced societies, when the proletariat wins the battle of democracy, they're going to do a number of things. And one of those things is a progressive income tax, right? To try and reduce income inequality, disparity in wealth, right? Karl Marx wants to take your dino land. Yes, that's a bit different from what Hovind and these other guys claim is happening. It's also for people like to talk about Marx like he was some evil mastermind. He was like a

like a journalist and a theory nerd who spent a lot of time, well, I think these kind of things might happen. He wouldn't write the same things he wrote then today because he would be looking at a different world, right? In their stuff, he was wrong about in terms of predicting the ways in which he thought society would progress. Obviously, it didn't happen that way, right? Marx would not have been like, oh, everything I thought was wrong. He'd be like, well, yeah, you can't predict the future. I was just laying out

what I saw best based on my understanding of the world at the time. Anyway, I also don't think he's wrong that if we were to ever have the proletariat take charge in the battle of democracy, we should have a heavy progressive income tax. We should just have that in general. It's a good idea. Carl would have said that Kent should pay his taxes. Carl would have said Kent should be paying taxes on the millions of dollars he's making in dinosaur merchandise.

Is he still selling the dino merch? I'm interested. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You can find some dino merch. I'm getting some. Anyway, Hovind, though, insists that FDR, who is, of course, a communist, forced income tax unconstitutionally upon us.

And so, as a result, Hovind resists the temptation to obey tax law and writes, I am not afraid of the IRS. I know the truth and have been set free. Oh, you should be. You should be. You should be afraid. That's the number one thing you shouldn't say. And for the record, I'm very scared of the IRS. Terrified. I pay my taxes. Oh, my God.

It's like they send you a letter. Like if you log into your account online, they send you a letter in the mail to be like, did you log in online? Was this you? And that's fair enough. But I get the email ahead of time about like what mail I'm getting. And so I get this email that like, oh, no, it's the IRS. It's terrifying. Why is the IRS sending me like, am I am I going to jail? Oh, God, what did I do wrong? Are you coming after me? Did I accidentally like misplace a decimal point and lie about a deduction? Yeah.

I was so careful. Yeah, no. And this is like, again, this is the difference between somebody who claims to resist this, like hate the state, but does so based on like nonsense and somebody who hates the state, but also understands the reality of the state.

That's part of why I hate it. Yeah, I'm going to try not to go to prison for tax shit. I'm going to pay my taxes and do my best to abide by the law because that's not a fight I want. I'll take some fights. I'll pick some fights with the government, but not every fight because that's stupid. Because you can't keep fighting if you're in jail for tax fraud. No, no. You have to pick your battles. It's a big thing, government. Yeah.

I'll focus on like, I don't know, trying to make the police less heavily armed. God told me I don't have to do this paperwork. So yeah. Yeah. So and Kent does again, the thing you're not supposed to do, which he has all these quotes where he's like, if the IRS really, you know, if the IRS actually has the ability to arrest me, they can come and do it. And they're about to. They will do it. They will.

They're like, oh, really? Oh, really? He's the tax equivalent of like, what are you going to do? Stab me, guy. Or they'll never hit us from over here, guy. But I think a lot of people who are doing tax fraud don't realize is they don't come after you year one or year two. They wait. They wait until they have a very robust case. They're like Target coming after you for shoplifting. Exactly. They wait until you hit the felony level. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

So for a surprisingly long time, Kent and his wife were able to sail by on this bullshit without getting clapped in irons. But eventually, the man came for them. And in 2006, Kent was charged with 58 tax-related crimes, including two counts of willful failure to withhold federal income tax from employee wages and 45 counts of structuring transactions to evade reporting requirements. Ooh.

He's doing shit like every time he withdraws money, he'll withdraw $9,500 to keep it under the $10,000 limit that he thinks the government can't pay attention to small. I don't know, man. If you have $1,000, $9,500 withdraws, what that says to the IRS is, well, this guy's trying not to get on our radar, which means he's breaking some law.

Like the teller that would normally have you fill out the cash transaction record form, which is the form you fill out if you're making a withdrawal or a deposit of $10,000 or more, just because you're putting it in a 9500, like she's saying something to the manager that's getting written down. Mm hmm.

And if you can do that, I've had to do like when I went to Syria, I think I took seven or eight grand out because like it costs a lot of money to pay fixers and there's not cash machines over there. But if you do it 10 times. But I did it once. You do it 100 times. It's not structuring to do it once. Yeah. Yeah. That's what they're talking about here.

Now, with any of these guys, it's always a little bit of a mystery. How much of this bullshit is them like believing this shit? And how much are they just trying to get away with not paying taxes and they have to hold the lie because what else are they going to do? We'll call them A, we'll call them B. I think so generally. Whatever the case, Kent does the dumbest thing possible when he gets arraigned eventually for this in 2006.

And he tells a U.S. magistrate, I still don't understand what I'm being charged for and who is charging me. Now, one thing I'll say about our federal government is that, like, I don't think any that's ever a valid complaint, because even if the charges are bullshit, it's always very clear who is charging you and what the charges are. You get that on a piece of paper, right? Right. He had an attorney at this point who would explain that to him.

This is not one of the shortcomings, in my opinion, of the justice system. And Kent was adequately informed of what he had done wrong. There had been years of communication with the IRS prior to this. Right. That's not usually a surprise when you get charged with 58 tax crimes. Right. Right. Like you're not really shocked. Yeah. Yeah.

Kent's brain, I think, just kind of shuts down when they read out these charges because in his personal headcanon of the Constitution, none of this should be possible, right? Yeah. The court case winds on for about a year or a lot of that year, 2006, and Kent tries to delay it. He files frivolous lawsuits against the IRS for criminal trespass, which eventually earns him a charge for impeding an IRS investigation. Yeah.

Later that year, his dinosaur park gets shut down for refusing to get a building permit. Oh, no. I do not contract with the zoning administrator. Yeah, yeah, I don't need to.

I found in his article on Rational Wiki, which is the best repository of all of the Kent Hovind lore, they write, quote, Hovind claims that his decision to build without permits from the county is based on the Bible, questioning, does the Escambia County, Florida, civil government have jurisdiction over a church of the sovereign god of the universe? Yes, they do. The Escambia County clerk would say yes. When it comes to making a Bible park, yes. Yes.

Like, who's inspecting this roller coaster, Kent? Yeah. During a hearing, Hovind was marked by the local county commissioner with the response that scripture also says, render unto Caesar what Caesar demands. And right now, Caesar demands a building permit. And that's not a bad response. That's so good.

I mean, that is, I will say, people talk a lot, what would Jesus Christ say? I think if he came back and a guy was like, look, we just need him to get a permit before he lets children onto rides, Jesus would be like, well, yeah, okay. That seems reasonable. Especially since, again, he's going to kill a seven-year-old later on in this episode. Oh, no.

Don't worry. It's on his next park. So that same year, he gets charged by the tax court for failing to pay income tax. As you can imagine, he doesn't respond well to this. And once things go to court, it all goes disastrously for Kent. He is convicted of all of the tax fraud and held in jail while he awaits sentencing. One local paper reports that he ran up eight hours of calls per week during the time he was in jail, which I think is meant to make him sound like a crazy person. But that actually sounds reasonable to me.

It's like an hour a day. He's got a wife and kids. It's like an hour a day. I think they're kind of being unfair to Kent here. That seems like a pretty normal amount of time to want to be on the phone when you're locked up. Three kids, a wife, and a lawyer. Right, right, right. Like, I'm not, I don't think that's actually an unreasonable amount. On the other hand, during sentencing, he threatened the judge and prosecutor, claiming their case against him was illegal, and he was going to make their lives miserable in revenge, which, again, not a great call. Oh, they love that.

Yeah, they love being threatened. Judges love that. That's every judge's favorite thing is being personally threatened by a defendant. Surprised he didn't catch a new charge for that. Yeah. Well, he had a lot going on.

In 2007, he gets sentenced to 10 years in prison and is sent to a federal prison camp or it's just called Federal Prison Camp in Pensacola. That's a scary name, but this is actually a minimum security facility. At least it's close to home. Yeah, it's close to his friends and family. Like within kind of our carceral system, he does not get the harshest kind of thing he could get.

No, he's in tax jail. He's in tax jail. He does serve his time. He does about nine years and he definitely did the crime. But this was not to be the end of the Kent Hovind story. Just the beginning or at least like up to the middle part.

Yes! Yeah!

Oh, yeah. No, Molly, of course. There's so many fun little cults in the kids' story. The Embassy of Heaven. I'm sorry. I'm inside the consulate. The IRS cannot get me. Yeah, that is basically what they're doing, right? As the Embassy of Heaven, we can hand out stuff like driver's licenses and passports. I have diplomatic immunity. And you don't have to obey the real government. They're, of course, based in Oregon. Yeah.

They're the leader of the embassy of heaven. The founder is a former computer systems analyst who calls himself Paul Revere. Yes. Yeah, I'm there. It's so good. It's all the good shit right there, baby. Now, because Glenn doesn't really know how the law works, none of his motions do anything, nor does an attempt in 2013 by Kent to use what's called a Bivens action to file a civil rights suit against the staff at his minimum security prison.

Kent believed that this would launch a chain of dominoes that would see his conviction overturned and himself freed, but a federal judge rejected his claims and threatened to hold him in contempt of court for continuing to file false bullshit. In 2014, the year before he was set to be freed, Hovind was indicted by a grand jury on two counts of mail fraud and conspiracy to commit mail fraud. He was doing mail fraud from prison? Oh, yeah. That's the worst place to do mail fraud. Yeah, it's a terrible idea. But it's very funny. Yeah.

This doesn't, again, is not many crimes. And he, you know, nine years is not a slap on the wrist. That's a serious sentence. But given that he should have done more time, given the number of crime, like anyone who is not a right wing Christian is doing 20 years for all this shit. Because that's a lot of money laundering. Yeah, it's a lot of crime. In an article for the Pensacola News Journal, Kevin Robinson wrote, quote,

According to an October 21st federal indictment filed against Hovind and Paul John Hanson, a Nebraska man known for his vigorous opposition of government tax and property laws, the duo has been charged with mail fraud and criminal contempt for interfering with the sale of Pensacola properties Hovind was forced to forfeit as a result of the 2006 case.

The indictment says that in 2011, Hansen filed liens on nine of Hovind's forfeited properties on North Palafox Street, Cummings Road, and Oleander Drive. In 2012, the government was granted an injunction ordering that neither Hovind nor any agent acting on his behalf file or attempt to file any liens, notices, financing titles, and claims of whatever nature to cloud the title of the properties. The following year, both Hovind and Hansen reportedly mailed additional documents disputing the ownership of the property. So basically...

He has to forfeit a bunch of properties because of the tax fraud. And so he starts putting liens on the properties to stop the government from being able to, like, do anything with them, which is like fraud. No, it does not work. And the court said that that injunction was just the court saying, like, fucking knock it off. Yeah. Stop this shit. Just knock it off. And he couldn't knock it off. He could knock it off. And they still don't really punish him further for this. Ultimately, Kent squeaks through this without additional sentencing. And he is a free man by 2015.

I think he spends like a year basically doing a parole sort of situation. So he's like fully off the hook in 2016. His first act after he gets out of prison is to create a YouTube channel. Obviously. Of course. Put it back to video.

Pivot right back to video. It has like 200,000 followers at its peak. It's since been removed and he is on Rumble now. I'm sure you can see that one coming. Rumble's the right place for him. He is not as popular on Rumble. Is he on Band.Video? I don't think he's on Band.Video, but I didn't really look.

Kent's arguments by this point had evolved into what he humbly calls the Hovind theory, which argues that dinosaurs and humans lived together at one point. During this Edenic period, even carnivorous dinosaurs were vegetarians, a trait they lost once Adam and Eve fell from grace.

Hovind has taken some flack from flat earthers who agree with aspects of his theory but are angry that he is not a flat earther. For his part, his theory includes the idea that God kept up a sort of vapor barrier to protect the earth until Adam and Eve were forced out of paradise.

When this happened, ice meteors hit the Earth and shattered fragments from one meteor caused impact craters on the moon, right? Now, that seems like a weird thing to need to explain. Kent needs this sweaty explanation because one of the ways that we actually know the universe is old as fuck is that we can look at something like the moon and see all of these different impacts over time, right? And you can kind of tell from that. It's part of how you can tell. One of the things you can use to sort of tell how long it's been sitting up.

there right because you can see how often it gets impact and be like well it's it's clearly been up there getting hit by shit for a long ass time right so Kent needs a way to explain how all of those impact craters happened at the same time like a hundred years ago right that's it's a little more than that I just feel like he's going to a lot of trouble

Yeah, you have to because it's nonsense, right? It's very easy to see that like, oh yeah, the moon's been up there a long time. There's just shit flying through space. Of course it's getting hit. We get hit. Dinosaurs didn't have sharp teeth until Eve ate the apple. Then they got to get sharp teeth. Yeah, but that's probably those meteors again. They carved off little chunks of the teeth, sharpened them up. Absolutely.

Yeah, that's what meteors do. Now, I haven't wasted a lot of time in these episodes arguing logic with Kent's nonsense because I see little point, but this is a perfect example. You don't really need to go point by point. You can find hundreds, you could spend a whole week reading nothing but people breaking down every argument this man has ever made, and a lot of them are actual scientists, but that's not really necessary, right? We know this is nonsense. I think this, some of this nonsense, the shit about the vapor barrier, is good evidence of why he's not...

super popular even with creationists. Kent has actually spent most of the last 20 years arguing with more mainstream creationist thinkers like Carl Weiland. And this seems to be due to the fact that a lot of the arguments Kent makes are easy to debunk, right?

These guys are all creationists, but there are creationists like Weiland for a long time would be like, Hovind is fraudulent because he's a bad creationist. He's doing a bad job of making these arguments and it makes us look stupid. Why didn't he read some books in prison? I think he probably wrote some books in prison. I don't think he really reads. One Australian ministry split with their US cousins over a debate on Hovind and Ken Ham supported Hovind in that debate, by the way. He's the guy with the good fake Bible dinosaur park.

Kent's new videos focused on the same stuff as his old mail-order videos and lectures, arguing about evolution and evangelizing to the kind of people who find that compelling. He also continued throwing out challenges for debates to famous scientists and scientific writers like Dawkins and Stephen Jay Gould. No one credible takes him up on this, but he's made a public offer of a quarter of a million dollars to anyone who could give empirical evidence for evolution.

As I noted last episode, his definition of evolution makes any kind of good faith response to this impossible. He also notes that a panel of judges, who he has never named or specified, would be the ones to decide if a proof met his requirements. It has become clear over the years that the only judge in this case is Kent.

I think the only judge is God, Robert. Yeah, that's my, you know, God, Molly, and the sponsors of our podcast, who might as well be God to us, you know, sitting here, you know, looking down on their creation, up at their creation, their creation being this podcast. So thank you, sponsors. We worship you.

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We're back.

So despite the fact that Kent's arguments are nonsense and all pretty bad faith, he does well enough to earn some serious fans. In 2015, one of them donates 140 acres of land to him. And by the way, folks, if anyone wants to donate 140 acres to the Behind the Bastards podcast,

I don't know what we'll do, but we'll probably we'll get raided by somebody. I promise you that, folks. You know, send it on over and I'll get to work. I'll get to work cooking up something that'll be an entertaining news story. You're going to get a good like three part Daily Beast article out of what happens. Make your own allergy medicine. That's right, baby. Succeed from the government to make our own pseudophantomy.

An independent Sudafed-based republic. Yes, this is the answer, Molly. You're going to reverse engineer Sudafed from meth that you bought from a biker. Turn it back into Sudafed. Great idea, Molly. Yeah.

So this land that gets donated to him is about an hour and a half north of his old home in Florida. It's in Conica County, Alabama. I'm going to, again, fuck up again and say Arkansas several times later in the episode. Conica County, Alabama. Sorry. Again, gas station drugs. And I'm probably pronouncing that wrong, but I don't like Arkansas very much.

Hovind created a new 501c3 to hold the property and named it Creation Science Evangelism Ministries. An article on Kent in AL.com, Alabama.com, not long after he took possession of the property, says this, quote,

On a driving tour of the property, he explained that it used to be a gravel pit where sand, gravel, and clay were mined. Because of that, huge sand dunes occupy much of the middle of the property. It's a popular place for four-wheeling. Part of the property is wooded and crisscrossed with dirt trails. The main pond has a redneck water slide made from corrugated plastic tubing and a zip line from a sand dune on the shore to a light post stuck on a tiny island in the middle of the pond.

At any one time, Hovind says there are about 25 people living and working at Dinosaur Adventure Land. We've probably had 1,200 people volunteer to come help us build things since they first started work on the park in 2016, he said. People just call. They say they love us. That's the hallmark of a great nonprofit is basically slavery? Mm-hmm.

That's why God created the 501c3 is so that you could have slaves. That's not legal. You do still have to pay people. Yeah, yeah. Kent, what he's doing, he verges on a cult, right? I think it's actually a little more irresponsible because he lacks the kind of centralized control that cult leaders can sometimes use to mitigate the worst aspects of having a cult. He's like a cult leader who's too lazy to take full responsibility. Yeah.

He's the clockmaker cult leader. L. Ron Hubbard would never. Yeah. So Kent basically welcomed in anyone who dropped in for a lecture in a view of his Slapdash Dinosaur Museum. If they had like a trailer, he was like, you can live here, right? And he used them as free labor to expand his park, which is usually just called DAL. And this led him to invite in a man named Chris Jones. And this is where the pedophile comes into the story, Molly. Yeah.

Jones had an ugly record. Oh, this is a fascinating story about whether or not he knew Molly.

Jones had an ugly record by the time he started hanging out around DAL during the Trump years. In 2001, he'd been working at a church watching a couple of young boys when he got in trouble hitting a seven-year-old who was naked repeatedly on the butt. He was convicted of battery for this. In 2004, he started hanging out with a trio of children ages 9, 11, and 12. One night, he decided to play strip poker with them. No! Yeah, yeah, yeah. Here's a quote from a court decision on the matter.

Defendant produced a deck of cards and explained the game to the boys. He dealt the cards, told the boys who won or lost each hand, and directed the losers to take off some clothes. The boys did as instructed. Alexam remembered he and Anthony M stripped down to their underwear. Anthony M remembered only himself getting naked. EG remembered the other two boys stripped him naked and took off their own shirts.

There's a lot more there. It's a lot worse. I'm not going to read it all. You get the picture, right? Jones is convicted. It's honestly just not fair. Like, of course you're going to beat the children at poker. Yeah, you have more, like, there's a lot of reasons why it's bad. Jones was convicted of three charges of lewd acts on children. And after this point, he starts hanging out at DAL. Now, you might think-

Maybe old Kent didn't know about his past, right? This guy shows up. Kent's not doing background checks on these people, these volunteer cult members, right? Of course not. But he's not Ghana, right? He's not doing that. The Lord will handle it. Yeah, that's Kent's attitude. And we know he actually becomes aware of this because of a guy named Billy Summers. Billy...

Lives in South Carolina, kind of near where Jones lives, and he visits D.A.L. in 2017. Kent Unprompted tells him, oh, we've got a guy who comes and volunteers here and he lives near where you live. And he gives the guy's name and Billy gets in contact with that guy. And basically Kent Unprompted tells him also he's a convicted child sex offender.

Right. So he can't tells Billy that. But then it's like we did. He did. No. Yeah. But he's like, don't worry. The charges are bullshit. They're politically motivated. Right. And then he goes on to argue Jones didn't even do anything bad. He was just playing strip poker with several children. Since when is that illegal? Oh, so he's not saying it didn't happen. He's just saying it did happen. But like, you know, it's fine. Summers recalls. Hoven says to him, Jones stopped at their underwear. So he did nothing wrong. Right.

I don't think that's good. That's really bad, right? I deeply hate all these people. They all fucking suck. And this guy was like operating the jump-a-saur or whatever. Yeah, I don't know what exactly he's doing, but he's quote-unquote volunteering. He's volunteering. He has informed

Hovind and Hovind unprompted is like yeah he's technically a child sex offender but it's bullshit he just some strip poker with the boys you know the literal boys like the actual boys very young

Oh, no. Summers is, I presume, a guy with some pretty intense religious beliefs. Otherwise, why would he be here? But he was not so cooked that he was willing to listen to Kent's pedophile apologism and move on. So he goes – to his credit, he goes home. He calls Kent to talk about Jones so he can record the call and get a recording of Kent being like, yeah, I know this guy is a pedophile, right? Yeah.

He eventually puts this up online. It becomes a whole thing in the community. And the Daily Beast, who reviewed a copy of the call, describes what happened next. Jones got a job at Bohemian. And this is him talking to Hovind. Jones got a job at Bohemian Grove. That's where they make all their plans for the New World Order, Hovind says on the recording. He got a job there and videotaped a bunch of stuff and they wanted him in prison.

That's why they arrested him for that bullshit strip poker charge. It was the New World Order trying to stop him from getting out the truth. That's not even a good lie. That's a genre of guy. There's this dude who started out as an anti-Iraq war guy, which is at least a reasonable point, and is now just a...

Bashar al-Assad never did anything wrong, yada, yada, nonsense dude who Scott Ritter, who is a pedophile, like has been convicted of repeatedly trying to fuck kids. And like everybody is basically like it's bullshit. It's but they're trying to stop me from getting out the truth. Like even within that your bullshit ecosystem, there's plenty of people making those arguments who do not have pedophilia convictions. Like he was supposed to speak at that time.

pro-russia that like anti-war rally that was yeah russia rally last year like at the 11th hour they're like fine we probably shouldn't have a literal pedophile the pedophile won't be there yeah like man it's a it's a and that is you know i'll give them that right like that's a that's a low bar but like kicking the pedophile out eventually is at least better than hovind does i'll give them that

Summers is not convinced by Hovind's explanation about Bohemian Grove. And so he makes that YouTube video about his concerns. Yeah. You know, you give it, it's nice to know that they're even within these weird communities of like dinosaur adventure land volunteers. There's people who are like, this seems wrong. Yeah.

I should probably spread the word about this. I believe that a child could write a triceratops, but a child should not be playing strip poker with a grown man. Right. It's like at least there's a line for you. Some of you people. Right. Hovind calls Summers after he puts this video up and demands the video be removed.

Jones eventually gets into contact directly with Summers and Jones tells Summers that like, yeah, it was the New World Order that got me arrested. My conviction was bullshit. It's always happening. He admits he calls it a technical crime. And this is how he describes this is the bullshit technicality they got me on.

It was throwing an 11-year-old boy in the pool in his underwear. That's my big sex crime. Even if I am guilty, hopefully the blood of Christ works. At least you're not questioning that. The blood of Christ works, man. We're all forgiven and cleaned up. Not a great argument. Just because God will still let you into heaven doesn't mean I have to let you into the children's theme park. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Right? I think that's the argument Summers is making, right? Like you can be washed clean in the blood of the lamb, but you're still on the sex offender list. You're not coming to my house, yeah. You're still not allowed in elementary schools. You should still be on the sex offender list, right?

The fewer summers created around all this even reached in the community of Bible weirdos who had chosen to live at DAL. A lot of these people had brought their kids with them or had partial visitation rights with their children is more common. That sounds right. Yeah, that sounds about right. And to their credit, again, a lot of them don't feel good about this pedophile having free access to the property. Well, it's not good for their custody cases. It's bad for a lot of things. Yeah.

In 2019, said pedophile visits again, and Hovind complained to his secretary that people were freaking out about it. A number of folks did leave. And this segment from that Daily Beast article makes it very clear why people were unsatisfied with Hovind's answers about Jones.

Asked about Jones, Hovind told the Daily Beast that Jones had done nothing wrong, either in his criminal case or at DAL. He's come here to visit twice, I think. Never spends the night, Hovind said. But Jones did spend the night near DAL during the November 2019 visit. Oh, that's right, Hovind recalled when reminded of the incident. They did spend one night here. They were Jones and a young boy who's named the Daily Beast. Yeah, yeah, 11 years old. Did he just go LOL, oops?

Yeah, LOL, oops. Like, oh yeah, okay, they did. There was that one time they stayed here, right? There was that one time. Oh.

And it was his what kind of makes this an issue is that there's this lady shunk who is his like secretary, basically. And she greets this pedophile and this boy on arrival. And Jones is white and the 11 year old boy is black. And so she's like, not his son. Well, they don't look like they're related. You know, not that it's impossible for them to have been related, but like they don't look related. This seems very sketchy. And also, he probably wouldn't have custody of his own kids. Yeah, there's a lot that seems wrong with it.

Right.

Hovind's assistant tries to, okay, well, you're staying here. Let me get you two separate bedrooms, right? Hovind intervenes personally to put them in a cabin on a neighboring property that DAL has access to. The only bed in the cabin is a queen-size mattress. His former assistant claims Hovind specifically wanted Jones and the 11-year-old to share the bed. When confronted on this, Hovind insisted the child was emotionally unstable and just needed to sleep with Jones because he was scared.

He told the Daily Beast, Chris is not a pedophile, if that's what you or anyone else is driving at. That's what I'm driving at. Yes, I am. I'm driving directly into it. It seems like there's a lot of evidence that he's a pedophile. Maybe the boy's emotionally disturbed because he's being trafficked by this pedophile. And by the way, Daily Beast gets in charge with his mom, who, you know, you get the feeling she makes some mistakes. And we'll talk about her in a second. But she's like, he's not emotionally disturbed. Like now he might be. Yeah. But also-

The secretary. You didn't think that was fucking weird? She makes a statement that like, I probably should have called the police and like, yeah, lady. Yeah, girl. Perhaps you should have. Yeah, girl. What?

I'm not a big fan of calling the police, but if I see a pedophile with a boy that doesn't belong to him. You have to do something. The thing to do is not just be like, well, I hope it's fine. Enjoy the cabin. Yeah, what you don't do is be like, here's some fresh towels. Have a good time. Enjoy your private cabin. God damn. You're enabling pedophilia. You're disgusting. Yeah.

Eventually, this causes enough of an uproar that there's a meeting with the whole community of weirdos living on DAL, and most of them express disbelief and shock that Kent can't understand why they're unhappy with him. Right? Your friend is a pedophile. You let him take a child into a cabin.

Yeah. Yeah. And Hovind responds to their complaints. You're tarnishing Dinosaur Adventureland. That's Chris's decision and the kid's decision. How people react to that is their decision. He's got a right to wrestle with a kid if he wants. And you've got a right to say, I'm not getting around Chris. He does not have a right to wrestle with someone else's kid. That's not a right you have. That's not one of the rights. That's not in the Constitution or the Bible. I don't know where you're getting that right from.

Wow. Just imagine like fucking Thomas Jefferson. And of course, the right to wrestle other people's children. Well, Thomas Jefferson might have felt that way, actually. He himself had a thing for teenagers. So yes, as we'll be talking about in about a week. Oh, good.

good. Yeah. Yeah. Good stuff. If you're wondering where Jones got access to this kid, it seems to be a case of his mom is very busy. She didn't know Jones's backstory. Um, she worked at a boost mobile and Jones was her manager and he had like occasionally taken her kids when she needed like a babysitter basically. And this kind of evolves to him volunteering to take one kid to dinosaur adventure land. Um, and she claims that her son later, uh, confessed that Chris molested him. Um,

She does file. She files like a complaint, but eventually has to drop it. I don't think she has a lot of resources. I think it's just kind of a. I mean, she works at a boost mobile. She works at a boost mobile, right? She's I don't know much about this lady. I'm sure she regrets it. It sounds like a situation where she really did not have the wherewithal or the resources to pursue this the way it ought to have been pursued. It's very sad. Yeah, it's a bummer. But you know what's not a bummer, Molly?

Oh, these products and services. These products and services, yes. They won't molest your kids. They sure weren't. We make that guarantee.

Except for the Washington State Highway Patrol. That's a maybe. I was going to say, we don't approve all the ads. We do not approve all the ads. Look, we don't know who's going to be on there, folks. We don't approve most of the ads. So one of them might molest your kids. We're never going to say 100% either way. It's not a definitive thing. Let's just get away from this.

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We're back. And it's good that we at least did the ad break there because now we're going to talk about that time a kid died on Dinosaur Adventureland. In March of 2020, a family with five young children came to visit DAL. The property, as we noted, featured a good- Every time you give a date, I'm like, wait, because- This is way too recent. This is way too recent. That was like yesterday. I was like, literally, because the last four years, the math's not mathing. It's a blur. But-

When you first started showing us videos, I was like, all right, this is an older video. It's like, this is now. Yeah, this is now. Yeah, I mean, spoiler, this guy's family, the last thing they do before COVID is go lose one of their kids in dinosaur adventure land.

God. What a fucked up year. So the property features a good-sized pond, which Hovind is quick to note they often use for baptisms. Something went wrong while they were playing, and one of the little boys, a seven-year-old, started drowning. Several adults rushed in, and they pulled this kid out, but in the chaos, another seven-year-old boy goes under. The child is rushed to the hospital, where they are pronounced dead. Now...

In every detailed article that you will find on DAL, Kent makes it clear he does not hold any insurance on the property. And anyone who comes there is taking their lives into their own hands. That's a fucking choice. I will say this is the kind of tragedy that could have happened anywhere. Right. I went to a lot of swimming holes as a kid that are just out in the middle of nowhere. Like shit goes down sometimes. This would not. This isn't a swimming hole. This is a theme park.

It's not really a theme park. There should be a lifeguard or a fence. There definitely isn't. I don't think that's not valid, but it's the kind of thing where like,

Yeah. The bastardry, I think the real evil here from Kent comes after. This is negligence, probably. You can make that case. Sure. It's certainly a tragedy. Here's where it gets really fucked up on Kent's behalf, right? So his secretary claims that he goes to the hospital with the family who is in the process of losing their seven-year-old boy. Oh, your lawyer would tell you not to do that.

They sure would. But rather than focus on providing comfort to these parents, he sees the experience as an opportunity to advertise for his dinosaur park. Quote, and this is from his secretary. The dinosaur park the child just died in? Yes. Yes.

Because they already know about it. And I don't think they're coming back. I don't think they're. No, that's not a repeat customer. I'll just read the quote. Kent Hovind is walking around the hospital, passing out ministry cards saying, come to Dinosaur Adventureland. We'll give you tours. We're free. Everything's free. Come see us. And I'm like, Dr. Hovind, you're supposed to be sitting with the father having sympathy for him. What are you talking about? Come on.

hey guys dinosaur park yeah i'm here because a kid just died there but like it's pretty cool it's not it's free it's free it's free if you want to you want to lose a child this is the cheapest way i know that's a fucked up choice it's wild wow that's not even good marketing no you want to distract attention from your dinosaur park after you kill a seven-year-old and also just like the

at the hospital are not the target demographic for a theme park. They're at the hospital. No, but Kent knows it's never a wrong time to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ. That's so true. The gospel of Jesus Christ includes dinosaurs. They're a load-bearing part of the gospel. Fire-breathing dinosaurs.

So when questioned about this by the Daily Beast, Hovind replied, yes, I probably did that. My business card has the plan of salvation. They're actually gospel tracks. So I do that everywhere I go. I'm trying to get people saved. I'm an evangelist. He goes on to say- That sounds like me. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds like me. He goes on to say, the father of the dead boy holds no grudge and loves our ministry. In fact, he even paid to build a gazebo on the land to honor his dead son. Wow. Why did you make him pay for it? Wow.

Why didn't you build a gazebo, kids? There's like so many, I don't know, the red flags. This guy, this guy just, oh. Oh, it's amazing. I don't even know what to say. It's so baffling. And this is after he went to prison. Yeah, this is after prison.

The new dinosaur adventure land is much more elaborate than the first one. Kent eventually acquired an 80 foot tall dinosaur statue, the largest in the state of Arkansas. So that's good. Yeah. I didn't know. Yeah, I guess that makes sense. I wouldn't expect Arkansas to have a taller dinosaur statue. Anything bigger than that is just gauche. Yeah. Yeah. You don't really need. No honest man needs a taller dinosaur than 80 feet.

Attendance exceeded 1,000 people per year, though it is extremely difficult to get a clear idea of how many people visit this place. That's not very many, actually. Yeah, it does not sound like much. I feel like, Robert, I do feel like we should show Molly a couple pictures of what this looks like. Show me the dinosaur, please. 1,000 people?

Throw it up, Sophie. Yeah, I have. That's like none people. Yeah. It's more people than should be visiting Dinosaur Action Land. Yeah. But I thought you were going to say like a thousand a day or like a week. However many people visit, you got to take one off because of the casualty rates. I've been looking through the Dinosaur Adventure Land Yelp page. It's a fun one. But yeah, let me show you some photos. Because you're like, it's a theme park.

Yeah. Oh, look at that dinosaur. That's a good one. You know. Surprisingly, honestly, surprisingly good T-Rex head busting out of a building. Wait. I'll give him that. What's going on here? I think these are like for how tall you have to be to ride them. You know, if your kid goes up to this point on the dinosaur's neck or some shit. There's just, you know. Whoa.

Anyways, that's I think that's a different one. Oh, I was like, I was like, that's dinosaur world. That looks good. That looks way too good for for for dinosaur adventure land. Anyways. Yeah. Just wanted Molly to have some some visuals. Yeah. That's really always good to have visuals.

So I think this park is less of a park and more of a tax dodge for Kent, who seems to spend most of his time there entrancing new female volunteers, marrying them, and then revealing himself to be an abusive prick in very short order. He has done this at least three times so far after his first wife. Sometimes...

I've heard allegations that he drains financial assets from them first. His second wife, Mary Taco, T-O-C-C-O, met him in 2016 after, in her words, raising her five kids on his videos. So Mary may not have great judgment. She reached out to Kent at some point and spent six months communicating with him online. After this time, she traveled to DAL and they got married, which lasted less than a year.

In a Facebook post, she explained that the split had started when she realized the finances of DAL were not, quote, above board. Given Kent's past, I assume this means he's back to committing tax fraud and probably stealing donor money to fund his lifestyle. When she brought her concerns to the DAL board, which she claims Kent controls, she was pushed off.

Cindy Lincoln, his third wife, claims that she also met him through his videos, which she saw while she was teaching preschoolers for what I certainly hope was some sort of Bible school. In 2016, when she finished his video series, she moved to DAL in a tent and wound up married a matter of days afterwards, I think. Um,

By early 2020, around the time that little boy died, she had started to see what she described as huge red flags. Oh, really? You saw one? You saw a red flag? The pedophile might have been a big one. The tax fraud, honestly, might have been one. There's a lot of red flags in Ken's life. He's mostly red flags. I just feel like everybody needs that one friend that's like, hey, girl.

Yeah. Hey, girl. Hey, girl. Don't marry the dinosaur man whose best friend is a pedophile. Hey, girl. Yeah. So things degenerated between them over the course of that first COVID year. And by the end of the year, he had graduated to physical abuse, body slamming Lincoln badly enough that she had to go to the ER and received a protective order against him. Oh.

Hovind himself was recording audio of this moment. I think he thought that the audio – he claims it's because the audio makes it clear that Lincoln's bipolar. And like, I don't know if she is or not. That's a fucking classic move, right? It's illegal to beat your partner even if they are bipolar. This bitch is so crazy. You're not allowed to body slam someone because they have a mental illness. That's not in the law books. That is a crime. Yeah.

Yeah, it's just a crime. In 2021, and again, I don't know that she, I'm not saying she is. That's what his claim is. I'm just saying it doesn't matter. It doesn't even matter, yeah. Yeah, in 2021, he was convicted of domestic violence. His second wife actually testified in Cindy's defense and claimed in court that she had seen Kent body slam a 13-year-old boy. She...

She wrote on Facebook later, several of us watched in horror as he attacked this young boy like he went insane. It was very scary. I shouldn't be laughing, but that's such a wild thing to do. Once again, if there's several of you around and there's one dude attacking one young boy, several of you could do a thing.

I think the action could have been taken against Kent at an earlier point than this, perhaps. There were a lot of sort of forked paths here. Right, right. There were a lot of, what did you say? Some red flags. Some red flags. Some sliding doors moments. Couple three, yeah.

That same year, one of his former residents went public with allegations that Kent fraudulently entered into a trust with him in DAL's name and then broke that trust, taking something like $100,000. This person committed suicide in 2022, and Hovind has denied that any such trust exists. It remains unclear to me the precise nature of Kent's marital status. Based on claims he's made publicly, he is now on his fourth wife in roughly five years. Two

Tuco, who seems to be the most activist of his ex-wives, published an open letter to his fourth wife on Facebook and claimed he is legally married to Cindy and possibly me still. That is a felony charge. Okay. Bigger meat. Bigger meat. I don't want to be mean to you because it sounds like you've been through a lot, but how are you not sure?

This is actually this I've looked into this. This is more common than people realize where they think they are divorced. I mean, they filed for divorce, but they lost track of it.

And when you get married, it's honor system, baby. When you fill out that paperwork, you check a box and say, yeah, I promise I'm not still married to anybody else. Nobody's checking. Nobody's checking. A lot of people are accidentally committing bigamy. Well, U.S. government doesn't. I actually don't think bigamy should be a crime. But yeah, I also think there should be like a guy who checks to be like, all right, but is this like a fucked up religious thing or is this just like a paperwork? You just want to get a couple of different marriages on your under your belt. Yeah.

Because I just, you know, a guy who does, who says that, you know, God says he doesn't have to do paperwork. He probably isn't finalizing his divorce. He's probably not doing much. Because when you finalize the divorce, you have to pay the alimony. Yeah. And he's not doing that. No. He's not doing that. Absolutely not.

So for his part, Kent's life is a monument to how much terrible shit you can get away with as a Christian conservative. He only does 30 days in jail for that domestic violence charge. And that's more than most people get. Yeah, unfortunately. Yeah, this is not like the least punishment I've heard of for something like this.

And the whole thing went down while he was in the process of filing a lawsuit against the federal government for his 2006 conviction. An analysis in Forbes notes, it was based on the theory that the federal government did not have jurisdiction over Kent Hovind, along with 76% more or less of what we consider the United States. He was seeking damages for a conviction that had been upheld on appeal to the 11th Circuit. To get damages for an unlawful conviction, you have to show that it was, you know, unlawful.

The appeal was ultimately dismissed due to the fact that Kent couldn't get his shit together to file it on time. So that's good. Classic. Tell me where he's getting this 76% number. So like what are the 24% of people who are subject to the jurisdiction? My guess would be it has something to do with like the original boundaries of like the 13 colonies or some shit like that. Hell yeah. Yeah.

So if you live in Maryland, get fucked. The federal government is coming for you. Look, I've been saying for years, like most of the states aren't real. Like Wisconsin. Come on. You're going to tell me Thomas Jefferson wanted us to have Wisconsin. Yeah. I don't believe in any of those rectangle states. You show New Mexico to Ben Franklin and he's just going to vomit. He's going to vomit. You know, he's going to be furious.

um so speaking of vomiting youtube vomited kent up uh which is why he has to be on rumble now um i know you're just champing which is if you're not familiar rumble is like kind of right wing youtube um and i know you're just champing but it doesn't work very well it doesn't work as well i was gonna say to to get this clip up that you want you want me to show the listeners here it was very annoying like

Look at the advertisement. It tells you to press skip ads, but it doesn't work till the third time because it's just giving you pop-ups. Yeah. As you can see on the screen, the ad right next to the video is Ivermectin? We've got you covered. And it's like a little case full of worm medicine. Oh, God.

Wait, what else? Okay. Oh, there's two comments, Robert. Oh my God. Okay. Wait, we should watch the... Key it up for us. Let's watch this clip. So this is... I just want to give you an example because most of what he does is plugged for donations. So here's how he sounds today. Next Friday starts our fishing tournament. I don't have my flyer about that. It's like a calendar. Come on down. I'm fishing. A dinosaur adventure. It's all free. Okay. Okay.

And then my 1,000-day anniversary coming up next month. Creation Boot Camp coming up July 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th. If you want to come down for that, I'd love to have you. A bunch of speakers coming in. It's going to be a really cool place. You can help us stay open for free. We've been open for free for eight years. Join our 777 Club. Say, I like what you're doing. Would you please keep going? You can't give a dollar a day. If you can't give anything, that's fine. We're going to keep going anyway as long as we can. Contact Sandra. What was the deal? I'm supposed to tell people, call Sandra if you're doing PayPal, right? Yes.

There's still some issues. If you have an automatic PayPal thing set up, call Sandra. Make sure it's going to the right place. You can't give them PayPal. You have to call Sandra. You gotta call Sandra. I think might be, I'm sure, if not his next wife, then his future wife, just based on his past precedent. I mean, I like the vibe.

Look at the vibe, though, where he's got his Aloha shirt. Yeah, he's got his Hawaiian shirt. He's chilling. He's pretty marginal on today's far right, thankfully. Yeah. What's his view count, kind of? Like 1,500 a video. Most of his stuff has trouble breaking 1,500. It's not much. So in terms of far right views,

YouTube rumblers. That's no. He's with the exception of the pedophile stuff, which I really was not happy to run into. This was supposed to be a fun episode. Like, let's talk about this guy who sucks, but it's mostly wacky. Then you get the pedophile and the dead kid. And it's like, well, I guess these guys, there's not really any fun ones. That's unavoidable. Yeah. But anyway, I hope everybody's found this to be like a nice cool glass of water.

Yeah, show me some more dinosaurs. It's like a pedophile LaCroix. Oh, it's Anderson. It's Anderson. Yeah, there we go. I had to pick her up because Robert bummed me out at the end there. But look at her. Her head looks completely empty. She didn't hear any of this. She heard nothing. She heard nothing. Well, she's gotten really good at tuning Robert and I out. I don't have a dog or any other kind of adorable pet with me. I do have what is for me the good book, Molly.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. My copy of Nazis and the Occult by D. Skylar. Great book. So you're having a good time. Yeah. I'm having a great time. Yeah. I got it from Powell's, their used book section. It's a classic. I think this was published. When did this edition come out? 1977 by Dusty Sklar.

Ah, yeah. These are the good ones. And then I dropped into the chat a photo of me at Ken Ham's Creation Museum riding the Triceratops with the saddle on it. You look really cool, I have to say. Thank you. Almost as cool as my Nazis in the occult book. Well, everybody...

2009 maybe and like I went with my college girlfriend and like we really thought that like oh there'll be like there'll be other people there who are just like joking right like there'll be other people there who just like trying to no no no no no everyone there everyone so serious so serious about it was wearing an ankle length denim skirt and pushing a triple stroller everyone there was so serious it was a bad it was a mistake it was a mistake don't go wow

Molly, if people want to go follow you and your work, how can they do that? Yeah, how can they do that, Molly? You can find me on the rapidly degrading twitter.com at Socialist Dog Mom. I'm trying to get back into writing my newsletter, The Devil's Advocates, on Ghost. And sometimes I'm making a little podcast on here every now and again. Oh, yeah. Well, that's going to be it for us here at Behind the Bastards this week. You know, go...

Make a dinosaur statue. Make it. You know what, folks? If you want to make me proud, if you want to if you want to make 85 feet, me, me, a proud cult leader. Yeah. Go to Arkansas and build an 85 foot tall dinosaur. Take this away from kids. There needs to be a taller guy. Eighty one feet's fine. We just got to beat him, you know.

This is how we can get some justice. The taller the dinosaur, the closer to God. Yeah. We just need it to be 81 feet. 81 foot tall dinosaur would give us the win. I do like the number 81. I will email that journalist at al.com or whatever. Well, this is it. This is the end of the podcast. Goodbye.

Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com. Or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, icons. It's Paris Hilton. Check out my new single, Chasin', featuring Meghan Trainor. Out today. I would have died for you. Now I'm saying goodbye to you. Cause I'm done chasing you.

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