Part Three: The RFK Jr. Episodes
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Cody, it has been an eventful news week since we started the RFK Jr. episodes. It really has. Yeah. I didn't realize that until we hopped on again, how much had truly happened since last we recorded. I was like, hey, Cody, remember when we recorded the day before former President Trump had an assassination attempt on his life? It was the day before. It was the day before.

And then it kept going. The news just kept going. Yeah, the news kept going. It was attempted assassination attempt. RNC. JD Vance. What a weird guy. Yeah, JD Vance. Fuck the couch. All the hits. Then it was Jovid. And then it was Jover. And now we're here. Kamal Awakening. And now it's the Kamal New Age. I don't know. Yeah, the K-Hives.

Glorious return, I guess. What a wild time. So I don't know. We'll see what what next week brings. Who knows? I mean, maybe tomorrow or today something will happen. Maybe maybe maybe things will just never stop happening now. Yeah. Maybe things are always going to keep happening.

Yeah, fuck. I don't even know what else to say about it. But you know who understands the way our current national feeling of whiplash and just like mind-dulling shock is a guy who has been going through it longer than we have. RFK Jr. Jr.

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I sat down to write these episodes basically when I was on the plane to the RNC right after Trump had been shot. And like the whole the jarring nature of just that, which was several twists in the the national story ago, made me think of RFK Jr. Obviously, you know, the obvious reason would be that, you know, he lost his dad during a presidential campaign.

Because an assassin shot him, right? Yeah. Assassination attempts, I think, just make you think of Kennedy's. Right. Right. Obviously. Yeah. And yeah, it kind of continues, you know, that campaign they had to find a new guy to run didn't wind up working out well in this case. And that it kind of continues these weird, distorted, maybe reversed echoes of 1968 that this whole election has where it's like it's a lot like 68, but not like

It's so interesting how it's so like it, but so not. Yeah. Mostly I thought of RFK Jr. because the whole sordid business is is was clear, like everything that happened to Trump, like everything detailed that's come out about the Corey comparator, the guy who died instead of Trump. It's it's really clear evidence of the severe maybe terminal death.

brain rot at the heart of this country. You know, not just our fetishistic love of guns, although that's a part of it, or all the conspiracy theories, but the casual derangement of even regular everyday people, the warping of sense and sensibility that you have to endure not only as part of life here, but to like survive in the United States.

In the first comments I made to my own posts on the assassination, I saw people theorizing that it was a false flag, that one of my favorites, and I think we're even past this now, was that Trump had bladed himself, slicing his own ear with a hidden razor like a wrestler. And then on the right wing side, obviously, people immediately decided to blame the female secret service agents on Trump's team. Really, really, really America. You mean the women...

after he was already shot at? Yeah, after he was shot at. Yes, yes. Solid point, Shodi. He immediately, he thanked during his speech because obviously you're not going to talk shit about your bodyguards. Yeah, that would be a bad move. But,

But what's really going on with all of this is that reality has fractured entirely in this country. The shooting of Donald Trump was a prism and the color of light that we run through that prism and the direction we shoot at it is going to determine what comes out the other end. We're living in like reality a la carte. You and me and everyone we know are in the process of

coping with this and we're doing mixed jobs of it. But RFK Jr. has spent his entire life pretty much in this space, right? For him, reality fractured back in 1968, and there's never really been any chance of fixing what's broken.

We've already discussed a few of the ways that he started coping with this brokenness as a young man. Some of these ways were not unhealthy. You know, he leaned into his hobbies, even if they are crazy rich guy hobbies. Yeah, he leaned into his hobbies. Describe the hobbies. They're baffling. Yeah, they're unhinged hobbies, but they are hobbies.

He and his friends used humor to help themselves cope and find control in the chaos, which is not a bad way to deal with it. But he also turned to drugs to cope. And when you've got a fracture, you know, a fractured bone or a fracture of reality, nothing covers up the pain like heroin.

Bobby was using heroin and any other narcotic he could get his hands on by the time he got to Harvard. And that was not his only coping tactic for dealing with the pain and uncertainty of a world that for him had never been quite sane. Lim Billings remained his primary adult authority figure and anchor to sanity. Now, Lim legitimately cared about him, which put Bobby ahead of a lot of his fellows. But Lim also wanted him to be the new JFK, and Bobby wanted to oblige him.

JFK had first risen to superstardom by dint of his perceived tremendous heroism as the captain of PT-109. That heroism had already helped drive another Uncle Joe to an early grave. But Lim felt that for Bobby to have a chance of taking on that mantle, he needed to do something brave, something that would just as crucially let him make the news for being brave. And I'm going to quote again from Oppenheimer's book here as to what they decided to do.

In the summer of 1974, before Bobby began his junior year at Harvard, Lem Billings proposed that they explore the very isolated and dangerous Aparamac River in southern Peru, an adventure that Billings had convinced Bobby would engrave his name alongside that of his father and his uncle Jack in terms of bravery and daring.

Several of his school chums went along as well as David Kennedy, and they benefited from the best guides and equipment that money could buy. But there's a fairly low ceiling on how safe a journey like this could be, right? Like you're going to be in danger even if you have the money for the best equipment.

And Bobby immediately gets dysentery and his dysentery is exacerbated as Oppenheimer writes by his refusal to eat anything but the weirdest shit he could find. Quote, including boiled rat, pulling out the eyes from the dead rodent's head and popping them into his mouth.

Billings, who idolized Bobby, did the same. Bobby could also kill a chicken for food in a split second by snapping its neck between two of his fingers. And he had the ability to drink half a bottle of beer, then press his hand down on the bottle's mouth, making the thick glass bottom fall out.

Bobby, what are you doing? What is this? What is going on? Like, what is this life you've decided? Just like, what a sicko. What a sicko. He's not even a weirdo. He's a sicko. Isn't that baffling? Yeah, there's just like a level here that's, it's not even like, you're like, oh, you're up here. It's parallel. You've escaped here and you've gone sideways to just this other world that is...

Well, did it cure his dysentery eating the rats? I don't think it cured his dysentery, Cody. I do think it, again, I think it explains the worm. I was going to say like when you were like, he decided, they decided to do something like dangerous. I was like, so they decided to give him a brain worm. They were just like, Bobby, get in there. We're going to put this in your brain. Yeah.

Yeah, we're going to live on the river eating rat eyes. That's brave. Yeah, like voluntarily getting a fucking brain worm put in your skull. America will love you, Bobby, if you live on the river and eat rat eyes. Some Americans will. It's so funny.

So they brought with them on this journey down the river in Peru, a veritable medicine cabinet full of drugs, which a doctor had given them to accommodate potential illnesses. Bobby put himself in charge of the trip's medicine cabinet, and mostly he spent the trip downing every bit of morphine and every opiate that they had been given.

Now, having been, I've had dysentery before and I would have taken morphine if I'd had the opportunity, but his friends were frustrated because when they were sick and they asked for medicine, he would tell them, nah, man, we got to save the drugs for emergencies. Yeah.

Well, he's not wrong. You should have saved him from emergencies. That's what he was doing, but the thing is a true lie that he said. Yeah, it's a true lie. That's where that movie came from, Cody. RFK holding out on his friends in the jungle. So David became kind of unsettled. It's like in the dark with the reporters being like, no, eat the rat slowly. Eat it sexually. Yeah.

So David was unsettled by his brother's behavior in the jungle, but cousin Chris Lawford was amazed. He considered this trip they were taking such a JFK worthy act that he started referring to Bobby as Jack and Lim. Lim is like, yes, call him Jack.

No, that makes it worse. That makes it so much worse. You're ruining him. You're destroying this man. This is like the most brain damage I can imagine giving a young man. Just like popping him full of drugs and calling him Jack. Like that's not good for him. Doing a heart of darkness to turn him into his uncle. God. God.

what do you expect? Again, just like no chance. This guy, no fucking chance. You got to remember he's incredibly good looking as a young man. He's got that Kennedy good looks. And so his friends, he's very photogenic. His friends take pictures of Bobby, like fording rivers and doing these insane whitewater rapids rides and everything. And,

They get into the news because he's a Kennedy, right? Anything he does is newsworthy. And people are so excited by these pictures of Bobby Kennedy Jr. looking hot on the river like a little adventurer that it draws the attention of a forward-thinking TV executive who sees these and is like, oh, there's potential here. Cody, you want to guess the name of that TV executive? Yeah.

No. Is it an Ailes kind of guy? It's Roger Ailes. It's literally Roger Ailes. It is. It most certainly is. Well, good for that relationship to blossom. Who else could it have been? Who else could it have been? I know. But my God. All right. Whatever. Yeah.

There's three guys in the whole world. There are three people. Like, the world has three guys and they just bounce around.

Now, the future father of Fox News was at this point consulting for TVN, a prototype conservative news network funded by the heir to the Coors beer fortune. This all culminated in a TV show, their relationship, Ailes and Bobby's, on a TV show about Bobby's next adventure. Rat boy on the river. No, they were going to put him in Africa. They were going to do a safari in Africa with Bobby Kennedy Jr. titled The Last Frontier.

Some of the details of this are interesting. Bobby was a smoker, but he refused to be filmed smoking on camera because he felt that public figures shouldn't smoke. He at this point claimed he didn't want to be – he accepted that he was a public figure, but he didn't want to have a political career, which given what happened to his uncle and his dad makes complete sense. He told this to Ailes during an interview. People with advantages in our society –

Can use them to change the system and help large groups of people. The more they have advantages, the more they can help and the more they should help. So that's that's his attitude at this point in his life. Right. Sure. Which is I mean, I appreciate his position on like public figures not smoking cigarettes. He like understands like, yeah, like this is a tacit endorsement and I can make my decision. But.

Yeah. I shouldn't push it on kids or use the level of cool that I have by virtue of being a Kennedy to like make this scene. And knowing like, I'm a Kennedy guy, these advantages and privileges and stuff, I should use them to help people. Right. Right on. You should maybe talk to somebody other than Roger Ailes. Maybe don't talk to Roger Ailes about this. He may not be the guy to help. But,

But you get where he comes from here. You also get where this can lead in toxic directions, right? Because like the idea that, you know, to whom much is given, much is owed. There's a degree of sense in that. But it also leads to this noblesse oblige idea that like, well, we're the natural ruling class. You know, America needs me running things. He's not there yet, but that's where he's going to head.

Uh, from what I can tell, he did fine on camera. He was a good like person to film, I guess, but he claims he didn't really enjoy the work quote. I'm no actor. If we had to do a second take, I just fell apart. It was fun though. I knew I didn't have to adapt to this environment in Africa. I wasn't stuck somewhere that I couldn't get out of. It was sort of like Harvard students working in a factory and playing blue collar workers for a while.

I don't know if it's how like that it is. I mean, well, right. Like it's like in that example, it's like, oh, you're like kind of faking like you're this person. You're doing this thing. Like you're like, you're like that. But like this guy's hawking by like rancid meat. Like, yeah, this isn't like he's not cosplaying as a weirdo who does this. Right. Yeah, he does. He does come by the eating bushmeat. Honestly.

Bushmeat and morphine. Yeah. That's his breakfast of champions. Yeah, he's not, you know, there's no pretending there. That's just pure Bobby. That is pure Bobby.

Speaking of Harvard, though, Bobby was not a student who did very well, right? There's not a lot to write home about in terms of his academic performance. But in 1975, while he is entering his 20s and starting on the path to becoming a lawyer and adventuring in his part time, one of his cousins probably but not definitely committed a murder. Cody?

There's another swing here, right? There always are. There's a lot of deaths and scandals within the Kennedys, and most people just know about the big ones, but...

Boy, there's a lot. Now, we're not going to cover all of them, but this one is extremely relevant because Bobby is going to put himself in the middle of this case as an adult. So the victim here was the daughter of another wealthy, prominent family who lived near the Kennedy compound, 15-year-old Martha Moxley. And I'm going to quote from an article in the New York Times here.

Martha Moxley, 15, fails to show up at home after roaming her neighborhood in Greenwich with her friends. Her body is found bludgeoned and stabbed, half hidden beneath pine trees. A broken golf club is found nearby, believed to have been used in the killing. The murder rattles the town, which is considered extremely safe. Nearly two years after the teenager's death, many Greenwich residents wonder why a broad police investigation has yielded no arrests.

So that's fucked up, right? Yeah. Now,

Bobby's not involved at all in this at this point, right? He's not going to be involved for years. But I needed – this is kind of when this happens chronologically in the Bobby Kennedy story. And I'll need you to remember Martha Moxley because this whole case is going to become very relevant later.

So later in 1975, the same year that this happened, Bobby got involved in his first political campaign, not as a candidate, but helping his college buddy, Peter Shapiro, win election to the local assembly in New Jersey. Bobby mostly knocked on doors, but Shapiro would later claim that his mere presence got the news attention and is probably what cinched him the election. Right. I got elected because I had a Kennedy on my back and like that still holds a lot of water.

In 1976, Bobby was in his final year at Harvard, and he picked as the subject for his thesis, Recent Historical and Political Changes in Alabama. Governor George Wallace, the segregation forever guy, had just been shot and paralyzed in an assassination attempt.

Bobby recalled later being shocked to find that the poor white working class people who'd been the backbone of his uncle's presidential victory had shifted political allegiances. Right. Basically, like, wow, these different states that used to be the stronghold of the Democratic Party when my dad was in charge, they all seem to be very racist now. What could have possibly happened? How do we how do we solve for this? There's no there's no political theory about that. Yeah.

No, no, no. No one's spent a lot of time studying. And then Bobby, eventually he's got to find out how to get those people back on his side, unfortunately.

But we're getting ahead of ourselves. Bobby and his friend Peter Kaplan even wound up interviewing Wallace for the thesis, although Oppenheimer speculates that Bobby didn't actually write the thesis. He thinks that Bobby had Peter do it for him, which is exactly how Bobby works, right? It's good enough that I attach my name to this. I don't actually have to sit down and write the goddamn thing, right? Someone else can. People just need to see a Kennedy's. Exactly. He's a Kennedy. We don't do our own things. Plus he's too busy hawk-tooing.

Oh, God. What? Hawk. Sophie. That joke was relevant two weeks ago. We've moved on past that. I'm still at the restaurant, which is a joke you don't also get. That was one attempted assassination ago. That was one attempted presidential assassination ago. We're past it. I wonder if the Hawk Tooie girl had something to do with shooting Trump. Not impossible. Yeah.

Yeah, because we know she's a Biden stan now. But Robert, you know what is possible? That it's time for ads. It is possible that it's time for ads. I can't guarantee that. I can't prove it. You know, I just have a gut feeling in my heart deep down inside me that it might be time for ads. Ryan Seacrest here.

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RFK, you know, 1976 does his thesis, and it's going to be a couple years later after he's out of college, kind of doing law school, so he's graduated from Harvard, that he's going to help in another election campaign. This one in 1980 is his Uncle Ted's re-election campaign. David Horowitz, future co-writer of the book The Kennedys, was with him for this, and even though Bobby had a girlfriend at the time, Horowitz later wrote, quote,

"Bobby had a girl in every place. There were women there like moths to the flame. I just know that he was fucking everything in sight. By the end of the day, the rest of us were exhausted and Bobby was ill, had the flu or something, and all of us collapsed. But there was a girl waiting for him. I was younger then and I'm a healthy male, but I wouldn't have wanted just to go to bed with a strange woman. What is another fuck going to do for you? It was just insanity, compulsive, nutty with him.

Maybe in his mind, he was building this heroic myth. He certainly couldn't have been getting a lot of pleasure when he was running over a 100 fever and looked really ill and was hoarse. He had one girl who was a campaign worker, so he always had that one. At one campaign event, he just went off to screw her. So I think what's interesting about that, because Horowitz is kind of a slimy figure in this. He's writing this book, basically taking notes on his friend as they're doing this. But I'm interested in the fact that he's like,

Maybe he was having all of this casual sex with every woman he could find even when you know when it did not make him happy He was ill Because he saw it as part of the myth like his dad and his uncle are both these famous philanders And he's like new Jack right? He's new Jack right? I have to fuck everything that'll have me right. I'm the new Jack and that's what Jack did yeah, it's um I mean Yeah, he's trying to do that. Yeah, he's a new Jack City here. Yeah, I

So Bobby also keeps using heroin heavily alongside Lynn Billings. Horowitz recalled that during Ted's campaign, they would drink heavily. And like one of the things they would do because there's no laws for Kennedy's, he and his friends would all be in a motorcade together and they would be passing beer and cigarettes between each other's vehicles while driving.

Horowitz wrote, that's the kinds of things Bobby did, perfectly illegal and crazy. And he did them because he was used to people keeping silent because nobody wants to be banished from the Kennedy magic circle and lose access. Right. He's just like breaking the law in dangerous ways to do it because he can. Yeah. Flaunting it. Yeah. It's like a challenge. Yeah. Yeah.

Try and stop me. Try and stop me. And if you if you have any issue with my behavior, then you're out. You're cut off from the Kennedys and nobody wants to be cut off from the Kennedys. That's the most exciting thing you can be connected to. Yeah.

God, it's like, I was just like torn with all the, so many of these stories. I'm like, that's like pretty cool. But also like, don't do that. Like, yeah, but also like, don't do that. And obviously like you could have killed somebody. Right. Like, it's just like,

scumbag rich kid behavior. Right. But it's funny. You get why Ted Kennedy had a Chappaquiddick, right? Exactly. Oh yeah, you people do not care if you actually hurt somebody, right? Yeah. As long as it's not a Kennedy.

Yeah. You don't really care that much about hurting a Kennedy. You're used to Kennedy's dying. Yeah, even then you're like, you know, we've got so many. Yeah, we've got plenty of Kennedys. Horowitz describes Bobby's heroin use at this time as accelerating due to his associations with Lim, who goaded him on with promises that he's going to be like his uncle JFK in the future, right? We'll do heroin and talk about the fact that you're going to be the next Jack. I promise. You're just going to be like God.

Lim was doing, I love the way Horowitz writes this, Lim was doing heroin with Bobby and shooting delusions up his ass that he would be president one day. Wow. He's on heroin, but the real heroin is his uncle's legacy. Right, right. The words of encouragement are the real drug. Yeah, never encourage kids. You might make them into this.

Bobby went to UVA after Harvard to continue his studies, and he rented a room at a farm owned by the family of one of his friends. One of the women who lived there, Connie Dempsey, had serious issues with how RFK handled his animals, particularly with the fact that after moving away from Millbrook and the pit of rotting carcasses there, he continued to want to feed his hawk the grossest meat he could find.

Oppenheimer writes, he had built an outdoor cage on Dempsey's property to house his falcon, but he also chose to feed it disgusting roadkill that he stored in Dempsey's home refrigerator. We tried to encourage him to buy chickens for this purpose, but we weren't too successful. What the fuck is wrong with this guy? Like...

He just loves roadkill. He just loves rotting carcasses. This fucking roadkill hog, like dead rotting flesh thing is so fucking weird, man. Like of all the things. I'm going to put it in their family refrigerator. These people letting me live with them. It's not just like the rotting flesh thing, which is weird, but forcing it on everybody in his life. Yeah. Like in this aggressive way.

Like it just, it's gotten, it's too far. It's too much at a certain age. Like, I know like, ah, you're all these people are dying, you know, and like you're dealing with this. Go to the rotting flesh pit. Fine. But to carry that for so long and give it to everybody around him, what's going on? You can buy another refrigerator. What is happening here?

And this is, you know, we've talked a lot about how I think he has some legitimate skill with animals. He has at this point, I think given that up to a degree because he's, he's so unreliable in terms of where he is. Like he just leaves his dog with them. He leaves these animals with the people who are like taking care of him. There's always someone who will let him live with them because he's a Kennedy and he kind of just abandons his animals to them repeatedly. Yeah.

Does he go get them back? Like, is it like, oh, like, I assume for a few weeks. Yeah. Yeah. And I'll be back. It just creates problems. It's very weird. I want to read another quote from Oppenheimer. Well, he had taught the Dempsey's and others in his UVA circle. He's going to UVA at this point. How to handle his bird. He had upset the horse loving Dempsey when he began riding with the Falcon on his arm, which upset the horse and made it crazy.

like he just doesn't give a shit about how his actions affect anyone around him yeah yeah which is also like it's not weird again it's like this yeah sorry fucked up kid um in this fucked up family um

But it seemed like at least at the beginning, he'd like had an affinity for animals. Like maybe he was going to transfer any like empathy or care or consideration he would have. He should have for like human beings and just be like, oh, I'll care about animals. But it doesn't seem like he does that either. Like, except for his hawk, I guess. It's like him and his hawk against the world a little bit. It's just me and my hawk. That's all I got. Yeah.

Gotta scare horses and cops with it. Gotta have something. It's like, again, it's like, yeah, he's, you know, he's got hobbies and companions. Okay, describe the hobbies and companions. Yeah. Are they healthy hobbies and companions for him to have? Maybe potentially, potentially being a hot guy could be a healthy hobby. But Bobby has never, Bobby always lets it go well past the point where it would be healthy. He's putting roadkill in his friend's refrigerators. That's...

The line. That's the line, Bobby. So after he concludes his time at law school and he goes to UVA, Bobby gets a job as an assistant district attorney in Manhattan. And again, that's only a Kennedy could make that jump with the record that he's got. Right.

Yeah. There's no way he even wants to do that. He's an assistant DA now. What are you doing? No. And of course his drug use only escalates at the point at which he is the assistant DA of Manhattan. And he continues pushing drugs on his brother as part, kind of a hobby, like getting his brother to do drugs is sort of like one of his pastimes. Right.

And I'm going to quote from a Vanity Fair article here. David Horowitz remembers Bobby being so cavalier that he cut lines of cocaine for his brother, Michael Kennedy, and allowed him to snort a line in front of the writer. Only then did he introduce Horowitz as a reporter. Horowitz also recalls that Kennedy asked him for a ride to Harlem to score trucks.

He's such a piece of shit. Like you're in front of a reporter, man. You and your brother, you don't think any of this is going to get reported on that you guys are doing cocaine? I mean, it seems like maybe he thought it was funny, right? Yeah, he definitely thinks it's funny. This is the brother he completely fucked with on acid, right? I think this is a different brother. This is a different brother. So he's just a shitty brother. Okay. There's a lot of Kennedy brothers. It's hard for me to keep track of them sometimes. But yeah, this is a different brother.

So Bobby takes the bar exam and fails it in 1983. And he has to he resigns from office not long after that. He is clearly in a downward spiral at this point. And shortly after failing the bar, he's taking a flight. You know, he's always flying, jetting around everywhere. Does he ever pass the bar?

Eventually, yeah, he gets barred. He gets barred. Not on Xanax. That might have helped him out, but he passes the bar. Because it's a very, very, very, very difficult test.

Yeah, I don't know, Sophie. It seems like he passed it eventually. So maybe it's not that hard. I think so. Maybe it's not that hard. Maybe it's not that hard. If a worm can pass the bar. Maybe a worm can pass the bar. That's what killed it, is puppeting Bobby through the bar exam. Poor son of a bitch used up all his energy. Yeah.

Oh, man. So he's on one of his many flights. I think he's heading to North Dakota for some goddamn reason. Drugs. As is usual, yeah, he's doing a lot of drugs and he gets sick. He got word like there's a pile of rotting meat there. You got to check it out, Bobby. A lot of corpses in North Dakota. Yeah.

They call it the corpse capital of America. They do. They do. Yeah. So he's he's get sick, dope sick. He's like, I think we're not dope sick. That's when you don't have heroin. He gets sick because he does too much heroin in the bathroom of a plane that has stopped in Rapid City. Or is that an overdose? Because he's sick.

I think he's OD'd. I think he's OD'd. Yeah, that's what getting sick from too much heroin is, right? An overdose? That's what they call it? Yeah, I think he basically OD's in the bathroom of this plane and they have to divert the flight to Rapid City because Kennedy is now on the verge of death. We got another one, folks. Oh, shit. Another Kennedy's going down.

It's bad luck to be a Kennedy on a plane. Such bad luck. Drive everywhere if you're a Kennedy. You could have finished that sentence anyway. There's no wrong end to that sentence. No, you're right there.

So they have to divert the flight and they, as they're treating him, they search him and they find heroin on him. Right. So he gets arrested and charged. He has, you know, been caught in possession of heroin on a fucking flight. Bobby gets ultimately sentenced to just two years of probation and community service because again, Kennedy, and this is the start of him seeking treatment for his drug issues. He does actually get better, but,

on that at this point, you know, he, he, he is able to like get sober and stay that way. Not long after this. Yeah. So that's good. That's good. Sober like from heroin or just like sober. I think he's just sober. I don't know. Maybe he has some champagne now and again, but I think he's basically the drugs. Yeah. He seems like he does that. That's at least what the reporting says.

You will read on this says, I have no reason to doubt the matter. We will talk about what he, I think he replaces Drew. That's always the question. Yeah. That's that's come up, but you know, the internet's not around yet. So, yeah. So the time and access that Bobby and Michael Kennedy had given David Horowitz and his coauthor Collier would create another calamity for Bobby the next year in 1984, an excerpt from the book, the Kennedys was published in playboy as part of a PR blitz. Uh,

Michael, who had struggled the most personally as a result of the drug addictions that he had accumulated with Bobby, became the black sheep of the Kennedy family overnight because he broke a Myrta, right? Like he's – you're not supposed to talk about this shit with outsiders. And he had talked about how fucked up the family was to these outside reporters. So they exile Michael basically, right? Yeah, you're not allowed to – we know –

We see. Yeah, we know what's going on. Like you can't. Yeah, you can't admit that you know that you're fucked up. How dare you talk about it? Yeah, I'm going to quote from an article in Vanity Fair here. The time and access that Bobby and David Kennedy had given David Horowitz and his co-author Collier would create another calamity for Bobby the next year. In 1984, an excerpt from the book The Kennedys was published in Playboy as a result of a PR blitz.

David, who had struggled the most personally as a result of the drug addictions he'd accumulated with Bobby, became the black sheep of the Kennedy family overnight. He has given away all of these secrets that you're not supposed to tell outsiders about the family. You're not supposed to let them in to the inside Kennedy stuff, right? You know, we know what's going on here, but you don't tell other people. So David has broken Omerta here. And I'm going to quote again from Vanity Fair to talk about what happens next.

The family turned on David Kennedy for airing the family's addiction secrets, and he stayed in a separate hotel during a family gathering in Palm Beach. Bobby, David had told the book's authors, was our last illusion. The next day, David died of an overdose at age 28. Oh. So we're down another Kennedy. Yeah. Yeah. They just can't...

Catch a break. Other than being like, no, really wealthy and powerful. They caught that break pretty, pretty solidly. They caught that break. It turns out there are other breaks that you need to catch to be a happy person. And it turns out those that break kind of exacerbates other breaks. Yes. Yes. That's very sad.

Yeah, it's a real bummer. And this is not, you know, it's not a miss to look at what happens to him as another chapter in the long history of the Kennedy curse. But that curse seemed to skip Bobby over and the tragic death of David helped to catalyze the need for him to commit to sobriety. So he starts attending AA meetings and within a few years, he's found a cause to throw himself and the weight of his Kennedy name behind an environmental charity called Riverkeeper. Now,

Bobby gets a lot of praise for his involvement with Riverkeeper. This is legitimately some of the best stuff he does in his life. I should note at the top of this that he gets involved with Riverkeeper in the first place because he has 1500 hours of community service. So you wouldn't say that he just like found this because he was looking for meaning in his life. He is legally required to do something. He was looking for something to fill that gap.

Court mandated. Now, look, that doesn't mean he didn't do good things there, but it's just useful context. Well, let me ask you this. The time he spent with them, was it the

The mandated amount of time. And that was it. No, no, no. He does keep it. He does keep working with him. Yeah. He should get, he doesn't get no credit for what he does with this, this organization. It was more like, okay, the impetus to do this was this. And yeah, you'll go to prison if you don't. How you find, it's how he found the place, but he liked it and enjoyed it and kept doing it. And so, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Now, he's working as an environmental lawyer now and he's also kind of the figurehead of the organization. In that role, Bobby attacks corporate polluters and he's actually very successful in helping to exact a real cost from big business bad actors.

In this capacity, he plays a major role in forcing GM to pay $1.7 billion to clean up pollution their factories had washed into the Hudson River. And that's a real penalty right there. You're not talking about a slap on the wrist. You notice a missing $1.7 billion in the balance sheet.

yeah the the B makes a big difference usually it's God is usually so much less than that actually usually way less than that usually usually it's like the amount they're like well we can do this because we're just gonna have to pay this and that's fine we're still gonna make yeah yeah

No, you're doing some damage at that point. Bobby and his partner at Riverkeeper also succeeded in going after Exxon. And in his speeches and writing around this time, Bobby fits pretty seamlessly into the narrative of a left-leaning environmental crusader going after conservative polluters, right? He is the lefty little guy, you know, standing up and fighting for the environment against the bad dudes from Ferngully.

Right. Like that's that's that's where he slots in at this point. Right. In a book Bobby co-authored, he complains about right wing stereotypes about environmental elitism and the monopolization of resources for cash by special interests. Al Gore writes the foreword of his book. So you can see him pretty firmly on like the liberal lefty side. You might even say like progressive left right side of the political equation here. Right.

Yeah, that that aggressive against corporations for these kind of things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We got from there to here where we are today. But this is where he is at the time. Yeah. So that actually makes sense to me still. But, you know, it does. It does. He's actually an important role, part of that whole national trajectory changing for a lot of people.

As the 90s gave way to the 2000s, he was one of the most prominent Dems on the East Coast and widely seen as a potential candidate for higher office.

Bobby like flirted with the idea of running for election, but he never quite managed to make anything happen. And you get writing from his, like in one of the books I read about him from 2015, you hear from like people who care about Bobby. Thank God he didn't get into politics. Like we were really worried he was going to, and I'm just so glad he's never run for president, you know? Yeah.

That would be terrible. I mean, yeah, that's if you can give advice to any candidate, it would be don't run for president. Don't get into politics. Don't get into politics. Stay off planes. Yeah, stay off planes. Don't get into politics. And a new rule, I would say for candidates, stay clear of rancid meat.

avoid rancid meat just avoid rancid meat yeah avoid rancid meat probably heroin too probably heroin too yeah just general advice that weirdly applies also to specifically the Kennedys but that's good I mean it's good to find your place in some you know a position where like you feel like you're doing something and you're making a difference and you have meaning but you're not necessarily in politics in that way so good for him

So while Bobby seemed to be a model for recovery and a human riposte against the notion that the Kennedys were doomed, the family curse continued. His cousin, William Kennedy Smith, had been tried for but acquitted of rape in the early 1990s. His other brother, Michael, was revealed to be sleeping with an underage person working as his babysitter. And then Michael died in a skiing accident in Aspen in 1997.

His older brother, Joseph's ex-wife, wrote a tell-all memoir about him that scuttled his bid for the governor's chair in Massachusetts. And then in 1999, John F. Kennedy Jr., believed by many to be the future president, crashed his plane into the ocean near Martha's Vineyard. The 90s are rough for the Kennedys. You thought the 60s were bad. Jesus. Some of those, yeah, just didn't – you don't even –

absorb them all. You're like, oh yeah, JFK Jr. is the big one that you think of when you think of the 90s and the Kennedys, but damn, that's so much. I assume we'll talk about babysitters a little bit later. We are going to talk about babysitters, but you can see how by 2000...

You could think Bobby's the one the curse skipped over, right? He's doing a lot like compared to the rest of his family. Yeah, he had that little brush with heroin, but he got over it. Wow. He got over it. Yeah. He's really doing great. He got over it in the 70s. Yeah. Yeah. He's been over it for a while. He's doing something that matters in the world. You know, he's doing great. Yeah. Yeah.

He's not. He is not doing great. That is all. There's more going on under the surface than than you would want to say. And we'll get back to that. But first, Cody, you know, it also has more going on than you'd guess. Wow. My guess is either products and services or the stuff that I do online. Yeah. Yeah. Both of those things. Products and Cody's. Here they are.

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We talked a little earlier about Martha Moxley, who was bludgeoned to death with a golf club by somebody in 1975. Michael Skakel, a Kennedy cousin, was blamed because they found one of his family's golf clubs by the scene and he had been around there. Now, the evidence linking him to this crime isn't great, right? Like, I think there's enough there that I think it's likely he did it, but it's not in court terms, especially when you have Kennedy money, it's not perfect, right? Right.

He is, however, eventually brought to trial. It takes a long time. He's brought to trial and found guilty in 2002. I was going to say it took, yeah, a long time. Takes a long time. And he goes on to serve 11 years of a 20-year sentence. Now, one of the major pieces of evidence in favor of conviction was that Skakel had attended the Alon School, subject of a recent, of a BTB episode. This is one of those, like, troubled teen boarding schools where you send your kids to be hideously abused, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, that's the description of those schools. Yeah, we did two episodes on the Elan schools. Michael has said people who went to school with him were like he admitted to the murders during group. We would have these group sessions where we talk about the bad stuff we did. And for most kids, it's like I smoked pot, you know, in my parents golf house or whatever. And with him, he's like, yeah, I beat a lady to death with a golf club. It's not funny. It's just the Kennedys are so much extra than everyone else. Yeah, no, like there's a there's a

a dark laugh that you can yeah you can Jesus Christ what um yeah but like what a horrific it's it's like it's like place to be in like yeah god

Yeah. So that all comes out. He gets convicted in 2002. And as soon as he gets convicted, RFK Jr., who is, again, at this point, looks like the hero at Kennedy, bounds onto the scene, trying to defend his cousin by attacking the witnesses in a very Trumpian fashion. And also in a fashion that's going to become increasingly associated with Bobby Kennedy Jr. He embraces a conspiracy theory. Sorry, I'm just like imagining –

rfk outside like the houses of uh the witnesses with like his hawk in the darkness just like you see this silhouette and he's got the hawk and like you start to smell like is that rancid meat you're smelling rancid meat at night is that the carcasses of hundreds of cows is that rancid meat and the answer is yes it is sorry uh

So he – in what's going to increasingly become a thing for him, he embraces a conspiracy theory. And in this specific conspiracy theory, it's that Martha had been murdered not by his cousin but by a group of black men. And I'm going to quote from the New York Times here.

In 2003, Gitano Bryant, a former classmate of Mr. Skakel and a cousin of the basketball star Kobe Bryant, came forward with information that he and the two teenagers had been in the exclusive Bellhaven section of Greenwich on October 30th, 1975, the night of the murder. Mr. Bryant said that he had left early, but the other two stayed behind and told him they wanted to attack a girl, caveman style. Both men have denied any involvement and prosecutors have called accusations against them baseless.

I am dead certain they did it, Mr. Kennedy said in an interview in Bedford, but people should read up the facts and make up their own mind.

So yeah, Kobe Bryant's family gets into the case. I should note that this guy claims to be Kobe Bryant's cousin. Oh, right. Not really. Oh, not really. Okay, okay. Kobe Bryant's fake cousin? Yeah, I should, because I was like, wait a second. I think this might be that guy. Surely not, yeah. He claims to be the cousin. I don't know if he's been claimed back. So many weird guys in this. So there's asterisk, asterisk, asterisk.

No confirmation. And he claims he was with these guys who said, basically said, we're going to brutally murder a white woman. Right. Like, what are you doing, Bobby? What is this? Like, yeah. Also like, what the fuck? When like, when Bobby says, like, look at the facts, what is he referring to? Like, what are just like the, what are the facts that he's referring to? Just that they were in town. Yeah. Yeah. What, what counts as the facts in this case? Um,

Was it their golf club, Bobby? Like, what are you talking about? They love golf clubs even more than your cousin. Caveman style. Shut up, Bobby. Who says that? Who fucking talks like that? You fucking freak. Yeah. Kennedy writes to defend his cousin. Because he's a Kennedy, he gets to write an article for The Atlantic. If you want to...

know how reliable the Atlantic can be. And it's a crazy long article. Like he writes basically a goddamn novella for the fucking Atlantic in which he throws out baseless allegations to defend his blood at the expense of victims and their families. To continue from the New York Times,

In addition to implicating the two teenagers in the murder, Mr. Kennedy suggests involvement by others. They include the Skakel family's former tutor, Kenneth W. Littleton, who was granted immunity in exchange for testimony and had long been a suspect, and Mrs. Moxley's older brother, John Moxley, now 57, whose account of his whereabouts the night of the murder varied considerably over the years, Mr. Kennedy wrote.

In separate phone interviews this week, Dortha Moxley, Mrs. Moxley's 84-year-old mother, said the book had left her at a loss for words, adding that she had never seen the truth so twisted and manipulated in my entire life. She added that she still believed that Mr. Skakel was the one who swung the club. So he's reopened a wound for this lady, you could say. Yeah. Yeah. Very publicly and aggressively. Yeah. Is the implication that, like...

These guys did the murder and then like these other people he's talking about covered it up. I think the implication is like, is it like they did it? Like he seems to be accusing like a bunch of different unrelated people of this. Yeah. Of like, so like what's the theory wanting to hide it? I don't understand.

Why what the theory would be right. OK, right. Like it's something that happens a lot with this stuff. We alluded briefly to the Trump assassination attempt, but like stuff like that.

where there are always these people jumping to conclusions of like, oh, it's this conspiracy, this, this, this. And I'm always like, but what is the theory that you're saying? Like you're pointing to like this person and this person and this event, but like what do you think happened? That's always what you should ask yourself with conspiracies. And it doesn't always like...

It's part of why I think some conspiracy theories, it's not unreasonable to buy into to a degree, right? Is there a logical line you could draw on why someone would want JFK dead? Why the CIA would have wanted him? Sure. You have a theory there with a motivation, right? Is there a logical reason why people would have wanted Jeffrey Epstein murdered? Yes. You don't have to like – you don't have to explain to someone why that might have happened, right? Right.

Yeah. Yeah. And those are lines are very clear. But, you know, like a like you see people say, like, they tried to kill Trump. Who's they? Who are you talking about? Like, why? I mean, why would they do it this way? From this. But like Trump and he didn't even benefit from it. Right. And like, yeah, it's like so many things like that where I'm like, but what do you mean? Are you saying Trump had a man shoot past his ear? Did he blade himself like a wrestler? Yeah.

Did they want to spook him? Like, they got this kid who sucks at shooting. And, like, what do you think happened? Yeah. Like, what do you think happened that is likelier than a 20-year-old with an AR-15 did something crazy? Like... Yeah, like, I just don't know what they're saying happened. And this is another example of that, where it's like, you're just, like, throwing all the stuff out. But, like, if you look at all the pieces...

Who's involved with this? They don't fit. There's nothing that makes this fit together. I don't know why. Right. Like, yeah. Now, what I will say makes sense in this case is Bobby's obsession with freeing Michael because Michael is one of the is one of the members of the family who stuck by him after he got busted for drugs and helped him get sober. Sure.

Um, and I, I get that that's painful, Bobby, but your cousin probably murdered a young woman. Um, and by backing him and attacking the people trying to get him, keep him in prison, Bobby has laid a clear line against the family of a victim. Um,

Yeah, and it's interesting. Vanity Fair writes, quote, Bobby was the only Kennedy to defend Skackle, showing up twice to the Connecticut courtroom. Theories abound about why Kennedy felt compelled to defend Skackle, including speculation that Skackle was blackmailing him. According to one of Kennedy's diaries obtained by the New York Post, he thought his cousin was delusional and paranoid, even as he publicly maintained that Skackle was innocent of the murder.

So maybe Bobby is just doing this for his own skin. Maybe there's some darkness and we have an idea of what that darkness might be as Bobby starts to get accused by more women of sexual harassment. Maybe his cousin knew something about him and is like, look, you use your PR juice to try and get me out of this situation.

or I will ruin your life that you've carefully built back up. Right. I'll tell people the real Bobby. Maybe that's what happened. Yeah. Like, yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's already like all the stuff we do know is fucked up. It's yeah. There's a lot that's fucked up as it is. Yeah. And he's like alluded many times to like, I've got like millions of skeletons in my closet. Like, you know, I got more skeletons than that fucking rotting corpse pit.

Yeah, exactly. And believe me, I got a lot of rotting meat. Believe me, I know skeletons. Do you need some? Do you need some? Sorry, side question, but do you need some rotting meat? Because I have some. Do you want? My whole trunk's full of it. Like, it's funny you bring up rotting meat because I've got a lot of it for you. I just can't give it away. I can't. There's no room in the fridge. There's no room in my friend's fridges.

So Kennedy money and Bobby's tireless legal advocacy eventually did pay dividends. In 2013, after about a decade behind bars, his conviction was overturned on technical grounds. In 2018, the Connecticut Supreme Court confirmed that he had received insufficient legal representation. A new trial was ordered, but the prosecution chose to cut bait and he was not acquitted.

put back in or charged again. So I don't know where you want to apportion that blame wise. Cause I, I think there's a chance he really believed that he was freeing an innocent man, but I don't know. Maybe not probably in the evil column. Probably. Yeah.

but there's no way to know. Um, it's weird. I mean, it's weird how aggressive he was about it. And again, like his defense is weird. Like his defense and like his explanation of the alternative is like odd. Um,

So, I don't know. We'll see. Well, I don't know. We won't see. Maybe we'll never know the answer. We won't see. The next thing we're going to talk about is a clearer mark in the bad guy column. I'll say that. In late 1998, the Kennedys hired a babysitter, 23-year-old Eliza Cooney. She was interested in working as an environmental activist.

And basically the idea is this will be part of your internship effectively. Like I will teach – you can shadow me. You can like learn how to do what I do as this powerful and beloved environmental lawyer. But I need you to watch my kids, right? Not a bad trade as these things go. But unfortunately, Bobby doesn't really have any plan to get –

give her to mentor her right that's how he frames this like I need someone to watch my kids and I'll mentor you that's not what I mean that's what I you assume like that's not I like you know okay get to watch the Kennedy's kids whatever like that's not like a legit deal or situation or like there's no like that's already a shady yeah but yes thing to yes move over like by the way what like that's weird yeah

So basically she comes over, they're having a meeting with another person at Riverkeeper. And like, as they're sitting around the table talking business, she feels Kennedy's hand moving up and down her leg under the table and

And she, you know, one of the she talks because she has recently come out to that journalist at Vanity Fair and she sends him like a copy of her diary with an entry dated November 7th, 1998, where she writes from from everything everybody says about the Kennedys and their babysitters. They had me worried like I have to watch out, be careful. And the other night in the kitchen with Murray, who's one of the other river keepers, I could have sworn he was touching my leg and hand.

It seems like he thought I was somebody else or wasn't paying attention. Like he would come to every once in a while and snap out of it, or I would move away. It was like he was on something or really tired or was missing Mary or was testing me.

Now, Cooney hopes in vain at first that this is some bit right. Bobby's just exhausted. He just kind of reached for me. He wasn't really thinking it through. But just a week later, she walked in to see her boss standing in her bedroom, reading her diary, which was open next to the bed and filled with notes on her romantic life with her boyfriend. The harassment continued after this. And she is shocked at one point when a shirtless 45 year old Bobby Kennedy asks him to rub lotion on his back.

She thinks, isn't, you know, marry your wife home? Doesn't she do this for you? But she agrees. She, like, rubs him down, even though she feels like it's inappropriate, because what else is she going to do? She's alone with the man. And she stops writing about her experiences after this point, because she knows that he's coming in and reading her diary. Is it really her?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But she says they continue. I'm going to I'm going to quote from Vanity Fair here. A few months later, Cooney says she was rifling through the kitchen pantry for lunch after a yoga class, still in her sports bra and leggings. When Kennedy came up behind her, blocked her inside the room and began groping her, putting his hands on her hips and sliding them up along her rib cage and breasts. My back was to the door of the pantry and he came up behind me, she says, describing the alleged sexual assault. I was frozen, shocked.

And yeah, that's bad. So that's Bobby Kennedy part three. Sorry to end on such a bleak note. Disgusting. Well, that's so gross. It'll get worse. For so many reasons. It's also like not the one time. It's not the one person that he would have. His response makes that clear. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

That's gross. What a sicko. Gross motherfucker. You know what's not gross?

your pluggables oh good so speaking of nothing we just talked about uh hi find me online um i host a show called some more news you can watch on youtube and listen to it as a podcast we've got a podcast called even more news um my band is called the hot shapes you can find us on soundcloud or buy our album laverne on band camp i'm on websites as dr mr cody um

Yeah. Yeah. It's going to give it to you. Blue sky. It being a bad time. Yeah. Robert, I'd like to plug Koolzone Media's newest podcast. We have a podcast? I mean, you're currently on one, but yes, we have many podcasts. But we have a brand new one that has the trailer out right now. And it's called Weird Little Guys. And it's hosted by Molly Conger. Do you want to tell the people about it, Robert?

Yeah, basically, Molly is the best researcher I know, and she obsessively...

Trolls the internet court records for very weird little guys. These are like little strange Nazi freaks, businessmen running cons, all sorts of like tiny evil people who you're not going to hear about from anybody else. Like what they do mostly stays locked into like local small claims cases or weird little corners of the internet. But these are some of the craziest people

people and stories that you'll ever hear about. So check out weird little guys coming. Trailer's out now. Soonish. Sounds amazing. Ep zero, ep one on August 8th. August 8th.

I was like it sounds like basically like D like F tier local Jacob Walls yeah these are like the weird little guys that like they just don't get that sort of national push from never heard of but they're like trying to ruin our lives yeah what a great

Show that I haven't listened to yet that I love already. Molly's the best. Molly's the best. And we'll be back with part four. So soon. Robert, any final thoughts? Nope. I think that's it. Well, bye. Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com. Or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, the host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm John Walczak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world.

In 2001, police say I killed my family and rigged my house to explode before escaping into the wilderness. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. Join me. I'm going down in the cave. As I track down clues. I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Hunting. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world. Robert Fisher. Do you recognize my voice? Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

The podium is back with fresh angles and deep dives into Olympic and Paralympic stories you know, and those you'll be hard pressed to forget. I did something in '88 that hasn't been beaten. Oh gosh, the US Olympic trials is the hardest and most competitive meet in the world. We are athletes, we're going out there smashing into each other full force.

Listen to The Podium on the iHeart app or your favorite podcast platform weekly and every day during the games to hear the Olympics like you've never quite heard them before.