William Shatner
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Yes, I have actually stayed at Airbnbs from time to time. And truth be told, I do really like them. I'm being totally honest right now that I've had great experiences with them. Yeah. I mean, you can have your look at you go get your own place, get your own pool, your own living room. You're not going to walk in an elevator. You're not going to see people when you're walking around in your undergarments. Yeah.

Yes. And if you don't understand what we're talking about, you should go online. What we're saying is you have a house with a kitchen and a bathroom and it's just for you, tailored for you. You liked your Airbnb over a hotel. Yes. And I do think I've had relatives stay nearby and sometimes it's very nice for them to do an Airbnb and have a little house and they're not underfoot. The last thing you want is your house guest to say, excuse me, um,

Where would I find a towel? That's a toughie when it's because they're naked. Well, it's like the 1800 time you say on the towel rack. Yeah. Thank you. I was going to look there. People don't even think hotels sometimes just go, hey, I'll go there. I'll get an Airbnb. So you won't regret it.

This next character was a thrill for me to have on the podcast. Mr. William Shatner. We did this one a while back, so we do talk about him going in outer space, which was...

and extraordinary to hear it firsthand. And he hosted SNL like my eighth show. And he was, I've mentioned before, one of the funniest hosts ever. And so we talk all about that. And you can talk to this too. The other thing about it is he's so philosophical. He's incredibly curious. Yeah.

And I'm still in awe of his brain. And when you see him, it's like, what? He's 91 or something. Universally liked kind of guy, super famous, great.

Everyone knows who he is. He has such a great life, great career. And he always, like you said, curious. He's always trying new things. He got involved in space. We talked about that. We had done this a little while ago. So if some things, you know, I talk about. Did you talk about UFOs? I might've asked him about that. Or you said you believed in them? I do get into them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he wanted to really get really into that. Why? Because when we take this. Don't you believe in them? Roswell just happened.

That was in 1947. So it was a while ago, but yeah, Thriller album we talk about because it just came out.

Mike Tyson bit that dude's ear. Yeah, we did a huge chunk on Hubert Humphrey. But some of them get left, and I just found this one in the glove compartment. I'm like, guys, we never even aired this one. So Shatner, we had a great time with, and I would talk to him every week if we could. He's just a blast. Yeah, Bill Shatner to his friends, Billy Shatner, or BS, BB. If you see DiCaprio, do you call him Leo, or do you call him Liam? I call him Cap.

What's up, Cap? I go, hey, no cap. I'm a goddamn husband. What'd that guy say to you? Says I gotta go to Italy and make Italian Western. I can think of worse things than that. I was doing Brad Pitt and Leonardo DiCaprio. I don't normally do little sketches on this podcast. It's not what we're about. No, we'll do them soon, though. Come on. Keep your eyes peeled. All right, so. William Shatner, enjoy this one. What a fun, fun guest he was. Billy Shat, his pants.

You both are vying for great hair. It's all an illusion. My skull is like a game of Risk. There's only so many soldiers and so much territory. There's a lot of product, fluffing. I faint. And a lot of eruptions. Eruptions, yes. I erupt often. Speaking of eruptions, hey, how are you, Bill? It's so nice to see you. You guys got a thing going here.

Yeah, yeah, we do. Well, we're discovering in real time. We can think of anyone we want to talk to. And you were literally the first person that popped into my head. No, I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. You could have had Trump.

President, Vice President. You know, let me tell you something. We're doing very good. Excuse me. Excuse me. You did a terrific thing. I wouldn't go up, you know, Bezos. Nobody cares. Listen to me. We're doing very well. We're doing terrific. Many people are saying, excuse me. Excuse me. We're not going to. What do you do when he does that? I don't know. Usually we're at dinner and I let him go because it cracks me up. I do it for my own amusement. But no, seriously, William Shatner. Well, wait a minute. Seriously, are you in your bedroom?

One of my bedrooms. One of my bedrooms. Are you wearing pajamas? I'm doing a Jeffrey Toobin. Let's put it that way. He literally rolled out of bed. It's called doing a Toobin.

Or a single. He could have pleasured himself before, after the Zoom. He just couldn't. Did he really reach in and do it? I didn't see it. I didn't want to watch it. Dana, paint the picture. It was literally like this, like

In between zooms, he's standing, walking around, and then he starts, and everyone's like, what? He reaches down? No, the camera tilts down. He's already kind of doing it, right? And he gets caught for a second. Wait a minute. The camera tilts down like that? Yeah, I think so. Ha ha ha!

I'm sure that's pretty close to what it was. Here's both hands. Seriously, he actually tilted the camera down so you would see what he was doing? Yeah. And then three months later, there was a grace period. He was talking about global economics. But all I thought of was the tubing. Did this figure of speech, when you were dating in the 1950s or 40s. Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

This figure of speech, Bill, when did this come up to a woman? He's a very nice guy, but he can't keep it in his pants. When did that phrase come in? He can't keep it in his pants. That came around June the 30th, 1962. Right.

When your teacher said it to you, to your parents. But she was referring to a pencil I was trying to steal, and I put it in my pocket. Are we going to start recording, or are we recording? No, we're always recording. We're almost done. Shoot the rehearsal. Oh, happy hour came quickly. I thought of a question I wanted to ask you guys. I have 38 for you, but go ahead. All right. This will be the 1A.

Okay. You two are very funny guys. Your reputation, stand up, serious. You're very funny people naturally, professionally. Is it an onus? Is it onerous for you to have a conversation like this? You're expected to be funny.

Not in this particular session. No, but in life, sometimes you're going to do an hour. We're going to do an hour. Right. We're going to talk and we're going to schmooze and we're going to. Yeah. You feel it like incumbent upon you to be amusing. Are your reputations at stake because you're known to be amusing or funny. So you got to be funny now. Well, since this is quote unquote, kind of behind the scenes, well,

We don't have as much of the allegiance to jokes per moment. Like I'm very interested in your whole life. So I like that we're going to work on both frequencies, but I'm not. So it kind of cancels it out. It really does. And that's the question. Who do I, who do I, who do you play to? Who's the most appealing, right? Exactly. I think you'd play. I, I, when I heard about this, cause Dana did mention you early on, we were going to say, let's talk to people from SNL or SNL related, like,

music act cast member host whatever just some wispy connection and then we can talk about anything also but we'll touch on it and then dana put you on this first list of like and i was like oh cool and then uh i said i don't know him i almost saw you the other night but i i don't know him but that's someone that is a guy that has so many things over his life that you can keep asking stuff about that you've been asked a million times we try not to do that we try to get

But we also have a few jokes. I did a deep dive on your new album, which is... Have you heard it? It's incredible. Bill, the lyrics, the one Tuffy...

about being Jewish in the 19-whatever and getting bullied and how you had to be a badass. I think because you're not reinterpreting a Space Odyssey or, you know, Rocketman, that this is autobiographical in the sense, I know you had someone working with you, but listening to you and your stories. It's totally, the whole album is autobiographical. Yeah. That was, that's,

That was the point, I guess. The whole thing is mystical in the way it came together. And also, there's an addendum to it that I could talk to you about. Yeah, I would like to know right now. Yeah, well, okay. So I did this album called Bill. And the thought was, well, let me just sketch it in. It just came out, right? It's very new. Yeah, it's been out about a month. I became friendly with a...

a guy who doesn't write for a living who is an executive i don't quite remember the circumstances but it turns out we started meeting at a chinese restaurant of which you will know so i won't say its name but a weird chinese restaurant whose main menu was duck

Like, Oh, Chinese. It sounds like an old joke. Right. Two China, two Chinese men. You can't do those jokes anymore. So we, it became a routine. Every time he came in from New York, he'd call Sam here and we'd go to the Chinese road, have duck. And we became the best of friends. There's quite a difference in our ages. Uh, but,

But we have so much in common, including people and people we know, people we don't know in the work. And we just became inordinately friendly. It was just a lovely thing that was happening. And then one day he brought a friend of his along to dinner to have duck.

And this friend was a guy he was friendly with in university, and they had a musical group together. And this guy, whose name is Dan Miller, went on to do They Might Be Giants, and he's won all kinds of awards. And Rob, the poet, went on to do, not to be an entertainer, but to be an executive.

so now dan the musician says to us why don't we write an album oh okay let's write an album and one of the two of them said let's make it about bill and bill said oh okay let's make it about me because i've written several books about my side uh yeah bills so i i've written several stories about things that have happened to me and and they've became books

So we took some of the incidences that went through my life, like the one that comes to mind that is most succinct would be I'm leaving home. I've graduated from the University of Montreal and I've been an actor since I was very young in Montreal, but now I'm going to the Mecca of Canada, Toronto. I'm on my way to Toronto, I'm leaving home and I'm crossing a bridge, probably across the St. Lawrence River.

And I'm driving a little cheap car. My father lent me a couple of hundred dollars and I bought it in Morris Minor and it's falling apart, but it's my conveyance. And I've got everything I own in the car and I'm driving across this bridge and coming at me is an 18 wheeler.

Oh my God. And that 18 wheelers pushing this volume of air and the air almost pushes me over the bridge. I almost go over the bridge and all my belongings for me, I'd have died and nobody would have known that I ever existed, but I exist. And I crossed the bridge and the song is about

we're always crossing a bridge and we're always facing 18 wheelers coming at us so the song although ostensibly about me is generalized is is yeah a more general appeal and that's what we've done with all the songs on bill now the the next part of this conversation or this soliloquy is i'm in new york city

Bill has been released. It's gotten phenomenal reviews. Bill has been released. The three of us are having dinner. I'm on my way. This is Sunday night. And on Monday morning, I'm on my way to the desert to go up in the air. And we said, let's write a song about space. So we start sketching out, you know, yeah, then. And then what's his name? Said Little Blue Dot. And then we go and we figure out what it's like. And we kind of sketch out the song.

When I come down from space, having been in actuality in space, I call Rob. I said, "Rob, you remember the dinner we had last week?" "Yeah." "Everything we talked about space?" "Yeah." "Everything we said that space is going to be like, forget about it. It has nothing to do with the other." And we've written a song of what actually I felt had happened.

We've got a monumental song. Is that so far from the moon or this is a new song now? Yeah. So far from the moon was, is on bill and it's kind of, and this is a whole next album. Well, I was so just to go to that, I was driving down the one-on-one from Santa and as, uh,

And you it was landing and you came out. And of course, like everyone has told you, first of all, how articulate you were, because I looked at the Wikipedia page. You're not, you know, 22, 23, 24 years of age. I felt like you were so present. And then what you said was so emotional. And the world has talked about it.

How does it feel now? It's been a few weeks later that you spontaneously came out of there and you talked about that thin blue line shot into outer space. The whole world's in tears. And this happens to you now. I mean, it's just still a little surreal. What you're saying is really, to me, is fascinating. When I, two years ago,

a young producer who produced a better late than never series that went on went around the world with some great guys and it was very successful but it was too expensive the network canceled after two years so this guy jason ehrlich was the the the producer on it so he says to me one day you know blue origin is going to send a spaceship up there and uh they're going to get uh passengers you should go

and i said jason nobody why would i want to go i don't need to go i don't need to go i've got to do yeah exactly i got yeah i got interviews to make he goes it's 12 minutes you're like okay everyone's got 12 somewhere so uh he says no they we really really would so he calls seattle calls them and they say oh great idea come on up so we fly up to seattle and we enter the lobby of uh

of Amazon, which is a giant room filled with Star Trek paraphernalia. Oh, wow.

Unbelievable number. The spaceship itself, the Enterprise itself is in a big glass globe and people flock there. And there comes Jeff Bezos. Hey, Jeff. And we take pictures around the Enterprise. Then we sit down at the table and they say, oh, yeah, that's a really cool idea. So we leave Seattle thinking, hmm. And I'm thinking, well, I suppose, you know, go up in space.

COVID hits, a year goes by and nothing happens. And then somewhere about six months ago, they called and they said, you know, Jeff is going to go up. That's over here. So Jason Ehrlich says, well,

Maybe Jeff will pick you. I don't know. Sadie Hawkins. A lovely lady, and he picks a very young guy. So now they go up. And I said to Jason, you see, nobody cares about me. Nobody cares about us. So now they announce a second vehicle is going to go up.

And Jason said, go in the second room. And I said, listen, I select the vice president, you know. They want the president. The president went up. The vice president never appears, you know. I'm not going to go. I don't need to go. Too much trouble out in the desert. They call. Shatner, would you like to go? I'm thinking, you know, up in space.

I like that. I like it. Weightlessness, what's that? Yeah, no pilots. You don't even need pilots. Press a button like a ride. Maybe they'll need a pilot. Yeah, that's right. You were trying to take over. I could give voice commands. I can't believe I'm in space. I agree to go based on the thrill of going up. It's purely and only. To my mind,

Nobody's going to pay any attention. They weren't going to pay any attention to begin with. Second shot, forget about it. Oh, no. Captain Kirk is going into space. It was so big. Who knew? I could have predicted it, but I know from your point of view. If I had called you, if you just said, call me, I'll tell you what it's going to be like. But no, you kept your silence. And what did I know? I used to run a PR firm.

And it was a home run. But if the no, that's right. I was a bye bye guy. They could have said it would have made sense. I go, do you want the bye bye guy? And I'd be like, bye bye, bye bye. And I go up in the rocket.

But no one was listening to me. Yeah, but there's a certain permanence to bye-bye. Au revoir. See you soon. Yeah, we'll be back in a bit. That's right. If it exploded on takeoff, that would have been the greatest mic drop. Oh, wow. And there was that possibility. Yes. Because going through my head while I'm lying there. Yes, it's going to blow up. And there's a pause. That documentary everybody's seen about the Hindenburg. Yeah. Exploding and people running. Yeah.

Oh, the humanity of NASA. If it had been filled with helium, it would have been, oh, the humanity. That's funny. Now, that's funny. Never had gone on that. It's filled with hydrogen, and that's what they were putting in the rocket.

And they said, anytime there's a pause, Bill, on the launch pad. Go ahead, David. I was saying he just he got worried because right before they went up, they go, can you sign these 200 waivers? Just press hard. 12 copies. Just initial where if you blow up, everything's cool. And they did that on the first conversation. There were there were multiple. Did you ever skydive? Have you guys ever skydived? No, but I've been in an airplane. That's like being on the. Well, they take.

film of you saying it's okay. I mean, the plan they go through to make sure they're not to blame if you die. I'm still suing no matter what. They would have sued Paramount Pictures or something. Anybody. I'll sue anybody near me. By the way, I have to say, I know you went up and it was fun, but everyone is so horny for Mars.

Like why Mars? I, to me, and this is my opinion, it's even a bigger shithole than the moon. Like nothing's happening on Mars. Nothing's happening on the moon. And I, you know, I believe in UFOs and stuff. So that's sort of, what do you mean you believe in UFO? Yeah. I mean, I think,

See, I told you. I'm just going to say they are real. I don't believe they're real. Wait a minute. There's a difference here. UFOs means unidentified flying objects. I believe things are unidentified. They're everywhere. There's shit going on that's unidentified. There's stuff in my room. It's out there. Do you know what Fata Morgana is? I worked with them. It's a pasta dish, isn't it? Fata Morgana from Star Wars.

No. Fata Morgana is the phenomena that you see in the desert with oases. Why do you see an oasis in the desert on occasion? A mirage. Yeah, the pool and the palm trees and the thing. Yeah, that's UFOs. That's being projected from an actual oasis somewhere. It could be a thousand miles away. But as a result of some visual phenomena where that image is

projected into a heat shelf, a current, and it's a broadcasting phenomenon, like whales bounce off their sound off of warm currents, and they can be heard thousands of miles away. These images bounce off a heat

and then appear on Earth 100 miles, 10 miles, 1,000 miles away. Right. And that's called a Fata Morgana. So wait a minute, William Shatner. So what you might be seeing is Fata Morganas. Yeah, William Shatner. So you're saying Star Trek was not real. You're saying that you didn't go to those planets? No, no, I did. Okay, thank you. Dana doesn't get it.

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Well, I have a question too. Okay, but this is, is it related to Blue Origin? I think for a while. So I think instead of coming to blows, you could think through. Is it related to Blue Origin? Yeah. Oh, my wish list is because. It's Blue Hawaii, the movie. Go ahead. Oh, William Shatner was the first artist to go in space and come back down. And then we got all this cool poetry, basically, spontaneously. So the next spaceship, I'm thinking Dylan, Dr. Dre, Springsteen, Howard Stern, Billie Eilish.

And David Spade. You just added me.

I just added you in, but I mean, shouldn't we send Bob? You felt badly because you interrupted him from asking the question. I did. You throw him a bone. Now we're getting into Raw Nerve, which I love, by the way. Does anyone ever ask you about that show, Bill? I'm doing a show called I Don't Understand. I'm doing a talk show called I Don't Understand. Again, hardly anybody's watching it because it's streaming. But you can look at it. But I get all those. I do. I've done...

50 half hours. Yeah. Weirdest, strangest people and subjects. Yeah. And although it's not personality driven, like, like a raw nerve, like what's a lie. What's a lie. Oh, that's why you catch me on. What's a UFO. What's a lie. Well, what's a UFO. Okay. Talk about a UFO. The biggest lies we tell are the, are the stories we tell ourselves.

Oh boy, heavy. Well, that requires analysis too. David, take the UFO thing, for example. Sure. What do you mean you believe that

in UFOs? What does that mean? Well, UFO is a term you write, unidentified flying object. That could be a piece of paper in here. It's unidentified, means nothing. Is it actual aliens from different planet? That's a little more specific. And have you seen those pictures? It could be fake on the moon where there's like three ships on the side of it waiting in the wings. Terrifying. No, I haven't seen that picture. Terrifying.

And there's a lot of stuff like that. But I believe since I was a kid, I was into that stuff. So but I think you're into that. Well, I'm into it in as much that those recent pictures from the Navy pilots make me think, what is that?

And then the Navy talks about ships going under the water. Yeah. Disappearing into the water. What is that? We don't know. I mean, they could be coming from the bottom. They don't have to come from space. They could be chilling on the bottom of the ocean, shooting up. One of the conversations I had with Bob Ballard, who is the guy who filmed the Titanic, but he's a major marine biologist. So he was...

He sent a bathysphere down to the separation of tectonic plates at 30,000 feet under the ocean. Okay.

there is a there is a bleeding scar in the ocean i believe where the tectonic plates are separating and there's a magma right there yeah hot stone okay yeah so he puts a bathysphere with people in it down below and he's late lurking there and he can't come up because there's a cave and finally he gets up and they're coming up like this slowly

And they're looking out the window and they're seeing what seems to be like a chimney. And they're going past the chimney and suddenly they're at the top of the chimney and spewing

Out of the chimney is hot 600 degree Fahrenheit water. Boiling point of water is 212 degrees. 600 degrees Fahrenheit is coming out of this plume of water. Not only it's 30,000 feet under, so there's 30,000 feet of pressure, 600,000 degrees, 600 degrees Fahrenheit boiling water, and it's all sulfurous.

And as they go by, they see 13-foot worms living there and clams. They're living in that extreme condition. Extremobiles. What does that say about life? It can go anywhere. The sea is terrifying. Well, why is it terrifying?

Well, I think there's so much unknown that way that we don't pay attention to. But unknown doesn't mean necessarily terrifying. Just to me, it does. But I think... David, that's a clue to your whole character. Mm-hmm.

Fear. Don't lean in. That makes me more scared. That means you're onto something. But no, what do you mean back? That's scary. Self-deprecating. Yeah, no, I'm scared of six foot worms. Did you say defecating? Yes. No, I was just describing an action that I'm performing right now. No, I said deprecating. Oh, Mr. Toobin, that's another way of going. Yeah, this whole thing is a waist down affair. No one sees what goes through their mind.

I have a Dennis Miller story that just to change gears, I'm sorry. This is so boring. But I think you were the host of SNL and Dennis said that he walked somewhere with you. You might not remember this. He was just his observation. But he told me years ago that when you walk with people, that when he walked with you,

When people would yell your name, you would casually go like that because that's kind of what they wanted. And you would just say it while you talked because it was so ingrained and people just go, hey, I was going, hey, while you're still talking. That's a lovely story. What a great story. It can't be true. Can't be true at all. I can't even do that. That's more of a Spock thing. I can't do that. He said people wanted you to do it and you were like casual because you were so famous. It was sort of a fun complimentary story that you were walking on and so many people knew you. Actually, what I do is like what the queen does, you know.

I just sort of regally. Thank you very much. Well, let's put a hit out on them. Nothing serious. I have a question. What's more of a popular phrase that you hear? Is it beam me up Scotty or warp speed captain?

You know, have you gone out and signed autographs at Comic-Con and stuff like that? Oh, Comic-Con's a big one. You probably don't do them because you're too big of a deal at those things. No, no, I don't do small things. I just do very large things. Yeah, you do that. Or small things that pay very well. I think that's good. You're not afraid to say no. You sign on the autograph. They ask, would you sign something? So it's a toss-up between those two, which is the most popular.

See, Dana, that was a good question. That was a good question. Why shouldn't you be able to ask a good question, David? Because I'm kind of stupid, Dana said. But I think that that was because I know starts are going to get along. I've had five years of intensive therapy. I started at 60.

I learned a lot. You came up a lot in therapy. Does David know about therapy and all that kind of thing? I do. I haven't gotten into it, but that means I'm not fixed yet. But I'm just sort of skimming by. But Dana teaches me a lot because Dana and I are old friends.

And he's very smart. Pre-SNL. And we have dinners and I learn a lot from him because he knows the drill. I'm the elder statesman. But I do, we get along really well. I've known David since before SNL. There was a movie that David was in. Mm-hmm.

Everybody quiet. Eight heads in a... It was a straight roll, David. And you were splitting, you were right on the ledge of, it was a beautiful performance of you who are known for your comedy, throttled that comedic instinct way back and you were very real and it was really a good, really good performance. What movie would that have been? Not Jack and Jill.

Tommy boy? No. There was one called Warning Shot where I played it straight. There's a couple where I don't do that many and people say, you should do it more. But the truth is, I don't get offered that stuff. Of course, you have to go out there and find it and chase it and work for nothing and do all that. And it's a big payoff if you can find it. Here's a thought I've had, and I need you two guys to corroborate it.

Most, if not all, comics, people known for the comedy and do stand-up and now become traditionally, oh, you're funny, be funny, started off as actors.

And just you were naturally amusing and people said, oh, you're funny. And you developed that gift. And finally, the acting roles became less and less. And the demand for you as a comic became more and more. And your careers became that of being funny. Is that what happens?

I started it just as a standup with no aspirations to do anything other than. No kidding. I try to be, didn't even want to be a standup. The opposite of what I just said. No. Well, I would. Yeah. Go. I mean, the same thing. I, I, I worship movies. You know, we talked about gold finger the other day, Sean Connery or the great escape. But for me, when I was, I had big family, five of us rough and tumble childhood and,

When I would see the Danny Kaye show or the Jackie Gleason show early on and then Carol Burnett and Smothers Brothers and flips. Well, I aspired to that when I saw laughing, when I saw Saturday Night Live, because I could kind of do voices and I got a lot of attention for that. When I was nine, eight, nine years of age, I could talk like the Beatles. Now, that was a big hit with my mom, you know.

At least something was. I said, Mom, you know, do you think you could make me some pancakes? And she dropped the batter and screamed. So I ran out. No, it was she's she laughed. But I what about you being a dramatic actor and then also going on Third Rock and other things that are overtly comedic? And then you went back Boston League. You played Denny Crane that that arc.

I mean, you your Wikipedia page is just loaded with shit. I mean, it is the most impressive, most eclectic career. Twilight Zone just keeps going. I I love to make people laugh, but I don't I don't tell jokes per se. I mean, I can tell you're very funny.

your personas i have a the same sense of humor that you guys have you you your mind works oh that's you can make it funny you can make it straight or you can make it funny you make it funny because you like to see people smile and then laugh and you know so i'm the same way but my whole uh genesis was that as an actor but i always tried to find

the fun the comedy the laugh yeah in in no matter what it what it was because people if they're somebody's just died in their arms uh yeah might be not amusing but might have an observation that in in in uh in retrospect is funny you know when i see you you seem um

just seeing you from a distance in your career and then on talk shows and stuff you do have a lightness to you that's more of a comedic side to me than some actors are very heavy for all the drama you've done and so and that's fine too but i just felt like when me and dana were going to talk to you you just feel like it's going to be more fun because you're sort of on our that vibe anyway so i

you wouldn't take anything offense or that kind of stuff. You're just kind of go back and forth with it and do your, and that's absolutely, I think talk shows like, like the ones, uh, uh, essentially it's a, there's a talk show or at least, you know, the, the effect is, um,

is you want to be informed. You want to have some insight, but you also want to be amused. You want to laugh. If you can make you laugh and inform me at the same time, it's much more entertaining. And I've gone by that for a long time. Well, I would say two things. One is like I worked with Mickey Rooney in 1981, my first job ever. I met a lot of older actors at that point that were bitter by their time in show business.

And or self-important. And you did none of that ever appeared in your in your vibe. It was you had a sense of humor about the entire ride and you could do something flat, dramatic, brilliant, or you could do something completely different.

You know, hilarious. And you just it to me, I admire that about you, that you never got self-important or bitter and you seem to be having fun. I don't know what they're self-important about. Well, a lot of people find a reason maybe to be.

That Wikipedia page feels pretty good. They research a reason for feeling self-important. I know. I don't get it. And I never understood, for example, Brando said about acting, it's child's play, and he got discouraged about it. I think that being an actor, which is, I mean, you're reading somebody else's words, but there are so many things

There's so many nuances that if you're really working and thinking about it, I could...

You know how subtle timing is. Don't have to tell you two guys how you can miss a laugh just by somebody coughing in the audience. I mean, it's as delicate as a cobweb. And to keep that cobweb alive, to make every night in your stand-up or in a play, the laugh is still there. And sometimes, the three of us know only too well, the laugh disappears. What the hell happened?

What happened to the laugh that was there? What are you doing that is subtly different from last night that the laugh didn't come? I did it this weekend. I did two shows and there's one joke or not joke, but I sort of talk for a little bit. Ted, do it. Tell us the joke. Tell us, give us the example. Well, it's not really an example. Well, there was one where I said, when people sneeze, I just said, bless you.

And I said, I used to say that, but for two years in the middle recently when they would sneeze, I'd say, oh shit, we're all going to die. And then I say it's so real. They were like, right. And then one night, it's a big laugh. The next night I added to it and I said, and then for a month when it got really bad, I said, oh fuck, we're going to for sure die because of your...

deadly poison boogers that you're shooting out at 3000 miles an hour into my faculties. And then I go, but then I tighten it back up. It's just bless you now. It's easier. It's quicker. One night they just listen, like in stare. And the next night they're like, Hey, that's a funny joke. And you go and you read, listen back. Oh, what was different? It's an eyebrow. It's, it's, it's either you are allowed or quieter. Oh,

Also, also, I love that phrase that we've all heard and it's worthwhile discussing. It's too soon. Oh, yeah. About anything. About...

About making political commentary on something that's too soon. So COVID might be, it's too soon as a question. As soon as it bombs too soon. Yeah. Yeah. Some people are still wearing masks. Well, that's true. If they don't laugh too soon. Exactly. I think a lot of it is just clarity, right, David? I mean, if you do a bit and you've got like three lines, you have to say in sequence perfectly to set up the funny part.

And then you get kind of used to it and maybe you skip one little phrase and they don't get what the premise is. It's one word. Imagine being, imagine being in a long run play of which I have been in more than one. And every night,

You know that laugh is like a pearl. There's a string of pearls of laughs that have come about. You're in rehearsal, and you don't know where the laughs are. Take my wife, please. That's a laugh. But where the other laughs are, you really don't know. Same with your stand-up. You write your stand-up, and then, okay, I know that's going to be funny, but is this funny? Oh, suddenly they're laughing. Why that?

They laugh on the setup and you go, well, that's not even the funny part. But they all decide that's the funny part at once. It's crazy. This year, Dell Technologies' back-to-school event is delivering impressive tech with an inspiring purpose. With every qualifying purchase, Dell will donate to ComputerAid, who equips solar community hubs with tech and AI literacy skills to empower remote, displaced, or disconnected communities around the world.

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I know. And it's not learning a language when you're older, you know, over the age of 20 is difficult. You know, I mean, all the high school Spanish I took a grade school Spanish, you know, all I can say is Ola and hasta luego. So it goes out of your head. So now you have Rosetta stone, David, tell them about it. Well, Dana, you know, more than anyone trusted expert for 30 years with millions of users in 25 languages. Uh, I mean, my gosh, uh,

They have Spanish, French, Italian, German. I don't think you can throw them a curveball. I think they're going to know. What don't they have? The language you want. Yeah. And immerses you in many ways. There's no English translations. You know what I'm saying?

I know no English. You need a Rosetta Stone for English. No English translation, so you really learn to speak and listen and think in that language. That's the whole idea of Rosetta Stone is that it sticks to your head. It sticks to your brain. I learned German out of a book. It just doesn't stick as hard, so this is the way to do it. Designed for long-term retention.

There's a true accent feature. It gives you feedback on your pronunciation. Yes. And of course, there's desktop app options. There's an audio companion and ability to download lessons offline. Yeah, so that's great. Lifetime access to all 25 language courses Rosetta Stone offers for 50% off. A steal! And I do think that the off-label thing that... I'm ad-libbing now, going off script.

is that when you learn a language and you learn to pronunciate the words in that language, you start to learn about the people who live there and speak that language. Sort of a subtle, intuitive way of integrating with the culture. A little different, yeah. Don't put off learning that language. There's no better time than right now to get started. For a very limited time, Fly on the Wall listeners can get Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off.

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Thursday, you do a dry rehearsal five, 10 times in a row with the crew laughs the first time. Then there's no laughter. Friday, you're doing walkthroughs, no laughter. Everyone's bored. Look at the ceiling. By the time you get to the practice show at like 7 PM on Saturday, you're like, I don't even know. And then, ah, this is funny, but you're almost tired of it. I just want to say, well, I was on Oprah one time, but it was with Chevy chase and Tina Fey and people. And she always asks, who's your favorite host. So at that moment, because of,

You're the name that came up for me. I just said, William Shatner.

The reason was, one was it was such a thrill being a Star Trek fan. It was like maybe my sixth show and I got to play Khan in a sketch. I'm doing Ricardo Montalban. You know, all that was surreal. But then I was I noticed your attitude about SNL like was so light and fun. And I said to you, you're so loose and having so much fun. I mean, how are you doing this? He goes, well, how else would you do this?

We're under rehearsed. We don't know where we're going. And it was the perfect attitude of like, why take this so seriously? It's impossible. When it happens, it's great. But then the other part that is butt tightening is the work.

Remember the words. You've got to remember the words. In this case, they're all in front of you. So you're not going to forget the words. The other thing is you're riveted looking at the cards as against trying to get looser, look away, give it a little juice. But so many of the people who come on are –

Yeah. You know, I went down the street. And Christopher Walken, which I've mentioned, just stared straight at the cards and never looked at anybody. And it worked. He just looked straight at the card, didn't even look over at you. Don't know why we're going here. Not going to work. But with him, it worked. You know, Dana, let me bore you guys with a quick story. Christopher Walken, I don't really do a good impression, but he was on a movie I did.

And we were in a house with the lights off. It was getting dark. And then we come out and the lights come on. And so we start in the dark. So we're standing in the dark. There's probably four of us. We can't even see each other. And he goes, David.

Have you ever worked with an actor dog? And I go, yeah, there's one in this movie. And he goes, they're good. You know, they know what they're doing. They train them pretty well. And I go, yep. And then dead silent. And then he goes, hey, David, you ever work with an actor cat? And I go, an actor cat? I go, no. And he goes, no.

they're no good they they don't do anything like they have a trainer but if you say go there they don't and then if you yell at them they jump but any cat will do that and i go yeah yeah and then silence and then he goes hey david you ever work on act a mouse and i go no way it sounds like an old joke i did a mouse on mousetrap i go oh that's right you did a movie called mousetrap he goes

They're good. The smart, smart. You say, go up and take a beat and go to the right. And they do. I don't know how. And I go, and he goes, I'd work. I'd work again with the mouse. I go, I'll look. And he's deliberately. He's very serious. Very serious. He's just telling me. Was he doing a routine? Or was he just telling me? That sounds like a great. I know. It's so funny to me. We were, and the other people in there were going, and then he goes, then they're like, okay, rolling. And he's like, okay, quiet. I'm like,

Is it a joke? I don't know. It just was so great. Act a mouse. I did a play. Boys in the band was a big hit. And, and then Crowley was the author's name. And he had written the second play was probably his first play. And boys, and I was a second, but anyway, I was, we were now in Los Angeles. We were going to go to Broadway on Crowley's next play.

And it wasn't as good as Boys in the Band. So the opening moment is this actress, well-known Broadway actress, her name I can't remember, and I come out on the apron in darkness, okay? And we're holding hands, and the curtains part, the lights come up, play begins. So we walk out onto the apron, opening night in Los Angeles, sold-out house. She touches my hand, and then she turns to me, I guess, and whispers,

Are we in a disaster? Right when it comes up. We were. It never got out of Los Angeles. It was a disaster. But imagine opening night. Are we in a disaster? That's all your inner monologue is the whole night. I had my Christopher Walken moment that I don't know how funny it is, but it always stuck with me. We're in a wooden spaceship on 8H, right? Yeah.

a jack handy sketch. So we're, we're going to land on planet earth, but our, our landing door always killed somebody. So when we walk out, the local townspeople are mad, kill them, hang them high. And so in rehearsal, he had one line where he would say, let's get out of here. But he would just say to me, he'd say, let's get out of here. And then we'd go back in the wooden spaceship, cramped in this little space. He laughed for like a minute after everything. Yeah.

Let's get out of here. You know, he is admirable. He's a wonderful actor. Brilliant. I guess you know something that strikes me as being astonishing is that he was a tap dancer. He was a dancer.

Yeah. And so there are films that at least one that I can think of where he does a little tap dance routine while waiting around a lamp pole. Yes. I thought, of course, he just had lived that or he told the director I can do this. What a sensational kind of what a character he is. He was a janitor in this one, Dana, when I did one. And he's got a broom and he goes, what if I danced around with the broom?

Same thing. And we said, yeah. And he's really good. He did that old video. He did Fred Astaire. He did a video for like, not Moby, but Beck or someone where he dances. Very, very light on his feet. Fun to watch. I, you know, the, when he was, when I was at S&L, I had this old Southern gentleman who was doing my wardrobe and Christopher Walken was the guest host. And he'd been a child actor and had performed in New York city for

The dresser was a child. No, Christopher Walken. And the dresser knew him back then. Oh. And just talked about him now because Chris had this sort of almost scary, funny vibe around him. And he said to me, this old Southern gentleman said about Chris, you know, he's got the devil in his eyes. Yeah.

And he was serious. He's got the devil in him. He's also got the devil in his hair. I mean, his whole thing is the devil. I mean, he's quite a character. I wish I, I've never met him. I don't think, I mean, I would love to have a conversation with him. He's a really interesting, really surprisingly vulnerable. He's kind of intimidating, but he's very, very sweet. And I, you know, it's almost old fashioned in a sense. I would like to know what you think about this bill.

It's just when you see Al Pacino in The Godfather, which is brilliant. And then my performance I love is when he extenuated his Cuban accent in Scarface. I don't know, man. I don't know what you got to do. What do you got to do, man? And it seems like as actors get older down their career, they'll become way more theatrical. Yeah.

Because maybe they're bored or something. I think they're looser. I think they're looser. Just looser. It's more playtime. You can go in any direction. So you go in three directions. Yeah. Or you choose one, two, three. You don't just say hello. You go. Confidence, maybe.

Like a confidence to go like, absolutely. You can play it more real. Like I don't always say hello in real life. I go, Oh, you know, you could do anything. Cause that really happens in real life. So you can play, there's so many different ways to play almost any line.

I'm sorry. I'm answering for you. I'm sorry, but that's what I know. You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. I do believe it has to do with confidence. If you've gotten older and you're still working, then there's something. Yeah. Do you, how, how about you personally? I mean, do you feel like, did your confidence get to a point? Did it ebb and wane or, or did it go? And where is it now? Absolutely. Depending on how it's going. Yeah. But going along with that theme, um,

It's also interesting how I think you should simplify. I think in a joke, the more you can cut away, cut superfluous material away from words, you've got to hone it down to its basic simplicity. The more simple you are as an individual, as an artist, as a person, as in a relationship, the more honest and simple it becomes then

Just being. Yeah. Right. Not trying, not pushing. You don't make the crowd work. I feel like the self-critical voice that, especially in standup or whatever, when you're doing a set and you're giving yourself a report card, the best sets are when that voice disappears and you're just completely fluid in the moment. It's always a really nice place to get to. But I did a movie with Burt Lancaster and Kirk Douglas talk about simplicity and

Because I was so in awe of them. And we're just shooting this scene around a little table. And they have their lines, but they just say them. You know, Kirk does like, I don't think we should rob the bank. Just that. And Bert's like, if we don't rob it now, we'll never rob it.

And they just like, they did take, but that's it. And they're Burt Lancaster, Kirk Douglas. Then I come around to my coverage and I'd go, what do you guys think? Or whatever. And then Kirk Douglas always said, I think we got it. There's no reason to do another take. So he was, I like when you work with actors and they do 10 of the exact same takes. And you're like,

I like to screw around and say, oh, they're going to pick it if they're a good editor. But sometimes people go, this is the way I see it. This is the way it's going to be. And you're not going to get me off it. So here it is. I got a funny, funny moment. I got a funny moment about that. I did a thing, a movie, Judgment at Nuremberg, it was called. And I played a officer at a, uh,

at at the lawyer's desk is this is this from Montgomery Cliff and everything or no oh that's it oh that movie oh my God that's so I'm at the desk doing nothing yeah being uh uh this character that's at the desk but I'm seeing everybody come in because everybody comes in to testify yeah

So they all do their thing. They do one day. Judy Garland would come up. Oh, Burt Lancaster comes in, does his day. And he does. You'll have to do him. You know, I didn't do anything. I'm a good German. I'm telling you, I did nothing. I was simply following orders. I didn't kill nobody. No way. No, how I'm going to make it rain. Sorry. Go ahead. Perfect. Cut. Cut. Great. Burt. Great. Everybody applaud. Burt says, thank you very much. And he leaves. Okay.

The next morning, hey, everybody was stopped, cutting the, not doing the schedule. Bert wants to come in and he didn't feel right about doing it. He's going to do it again. Do take two.

Thank you. Oh, really? Now do Burt Lancaster like you just did. I'm telling you, I did nothing wrong. I never killed anybody. You can ask anybody. I was sick. Great. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Was it like the same reading? You just did exactly the same thing. I just want to get it again. He laughed and laughed. He was sweet. He was a very nice man. How about this? This is an IMDB roulette question. Um,

There is Twilight Zone in there. Did you ever do Night Gallery, which scared the shit out of me? I was scared of Night Gallery. Do you remember Night Gallery? Oh, yeah. 67, 68. I remember Night Gallery, but I don't remember. You know, all those jobs back then were half hour. I love it.

well those half hour shows and the hour shows you did them to make a living i mean you had the rent to play and the children feed and nobody you know the audience at large people are going to watch you in this don't understand that you also have to make a living as an actor and if you're not making 20 million dollars a picture which you put away and live on the interest uh you you have to work and so some of the jobs you take because it's working by the way i want to thank bill for

You saved me a lot of money. In? Well, here's the story. I happened upon, and I won't name the stock. I happened upon out of a, probably a dumb investment. I got a lot of one particular stock. It's kind of famous now, but when it, when it, when it doubled, the expert, the experts,

said, no, you got to sell it because it would gyrate down. It would double and then come back. But I remember you regretting selling Priceline. So I held on to it and I still am holding on to it today. So I just want to thank you. Fantastic. So it was the dot-com bubble. It went way up. But because I was there originally, there's a thing called a tie-in or a tie-up where you can't sell it for a year and a half.

Yeah. So it went up and I'm watching it go up. I got it for like 25 cents and it went up to $150 or more. I think, God, I'm going to be rich. And then I'm sorry. And I can't sell it. And then I can sell it. And it's back down to 25 cents. So I sold it. Then it goes back. And it went up again. Thousands of dollars. Yeah, go ahead. Well, I was just curious about this Star Trek.

And then part of the 70s where you're kind of doing game shows or whatever. But then all of a sudden there's seven Star Trek movies. I mean, that's never happened to anyone in show business, a series from the city and then seven Star Trek movies, one in which you directed. I just think that's a fascinating part of your incredible. It was it was it was. Did you not get paid? I think it said that you don't get paid a lot on Star Trek because that's an early job, right?

Well, we didn't get – no, it was an early job, and we were all – I had done Broadway and movies and stuff. A lot of stuff, yeah. Yeah, before Star Trek. But, you know, to get to that level, you had to star in – even movies didn't do it. You had to do a series. And when I did that series –

uh, it put me in another, another level. And I was able to do those movies and I didn't, I stopped doing half hour shows. Yeah. Stop playing the heavy on Charlie's angels. No, it just sounds like something someone would do just for a week of work. Did you ever play a bad, you did a couple of Columbo's right?

Yeah, those are great. How was Peter Falk? They were sensational. And I don't know whether this is common knowledge. They were very difficult to write for. And they were difficult because... Because they're reverse engineering. Yeah. Exactly. What's happening? That's exactly right.

Well, it means that you know who the criminal is. Yeah. And the whole drama is Columbo learning who the criminal is. But you, the audience, know who it is. Yeah. So what's the jeopardy? And then have you seen those, David? Because he plays the- Very difficult to make it work. Yes. I've seen Columbo when he makes a side story like he goes, is this your dog?

oh, I had a dog like this. Meanwhile, I know you killed the guy. But is this a... He played... It was kind of a passive-aggressive character. When you watch it, you feel like he knew, but he just left him dangling for weeks. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I don't know that when he unbuckled his...

coat yeah what you were gonna see might have been a tubing maybe pre-tube an early tubing i was gonna go peter fall yes on um gemini

When this guy did SNL, you were newer, you said. Oh, yeah. Six, six shows. Who wrote the Star Trek sketch? Was that Smigel? Probably. I don't know. And Mr. Shatner, were you okay with that sketch, beginning, middle, end? Oh, yeah. That sketch reminded me or made me aware of the best comedy ever

is played absolutely real. Yes. If you can be ultra serious, ultra serious, if it's, you know, there's a comedic cloud, just, it's just a phantasmagoria.

a little hint, a mist of comedy. So the audience knows it's funny, but doesn't know it's funny. You know what I mean? There's a balance there that you guys, you superb comedians know exactly what I mean. The audience you and I are three of us are talking to might not know what we're talking about, but there is a hint of the actor is in on the comedy. Yes. But it's absolutely real. And that's those, those are the comedic actors.

And then there's the actors who don't have that hint and it becomes absolutely run. It's not funny. Got wacky. You know, there was a TJ hooker.

that we did as well. And again, we played it just flat as real as possible. Some of the car was whipping around. I can't remember. And then there was one where you were played some vein. You were in a mirror posing going, look at that butt. Look at these arms. Do you remember that one? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you had a killer show. Yeah, I mean, that was like everything worked. It was a killer show. The epitome of that was there was a movie I did with...

De Niro and I came on as myself to show him how to jump over a car oh and and I said to them look I'm gonna play hurt and don't cut the camera because you're pretending I played yeah because it's gonna look real yeah and I'll come up out of the car and I'm gonna play hurt

Do not ever don't. No matter what I do, do not cut. Right. So I jump over the car and now I'm being ultra real. Oh, shit. Oh,

And they cut the camera. They cut, which is the most flattering thing they could have done for you. Why did you do that? I told you not to cut. It's almost like a Ralph Crandon thing or something. Get out of here. That's the funny part. That was actually funny. I did it again, but probably not as well as the first time where you play ultra, ultra. And the audience is in on the joke. Yeah, pain is funny.

I mean, look at Laurel and Hardy. Look at the Three Stooges. Look at Crab Falls. Bang. The Three Stooges have gotten... When I think about them now and the abstraction of people hitting your friend with a hammer in his face and on his head and stuff, it seems funnier now than when I was a kid because I loved Abbott and Costello and I really liked the Three Stooges. Abbott and Costello had more intellect. That Who's on...

The classic sketch, that classic sketch is maybe the most brilliant written piece of comedy ever. And delivered full circle. I did an homage to Abbott and Costello, Lou Costello. When Christopher Walken was in Wayne's world too, uh,

And he's kind of the bad guy. And I'm playing Garth. And he goes, Garth! Like that. And I started doing that. Which is very hard to do. Sustaining the, you know. And then Mike started doing it. But yeah, they were, Abbott Costello meets Frankenstein. As a kid, watching that on television was like, ah,

Perfect. He couldn't when he saw Frankenstein and couldn't get it out. Yeah. What's the matter with you? I don't know. There's no one here. And he's just pointing. What are you talking about? Look, I'm going to go over here. I'll be back in five minutes. Who invents that? Does does Lou Costello invent that? Does the director say, hey, here's I know. I just wonder those early movie stars.

vaudeville was such a breeding ground for all the basics of comedy in fact apparently i don't know that abin costello who's on first had been performed by some other act at some point that maybe it was something yeah that's yeah that i don't that it was the classic sketch in vaudeville which they they they took but i can't imagine

anybody doing it better because they played it so real. Absolutely. The timing, I mean, that's just, you can't beat those two actors doing that. No, because they're just, it should be an NFT. That would have required

Hours of rehearsal. To your point about this whole podcast, one little drop beat, one guy doesn't remember one tiny bit, and the whole thing is done in a second. It has to be seamless. It's very interesting, those vaudevillian stars who became movie stars, like the Marx Brothers, and kind of filmed their plays. If you look at the Marx Brothers today, they're not fun.

I mean, the one with Joe leaning against the building. What do you think you're doing? Holding up the building? And he walks away and the building falls down. That was a great comic thing.

But mostly walking around, I don't know. It's not funny. Well, when I was a kid watching reruns, it was a little too old-fashioned for me. I liked Jerry Lewis. As a kid, that's kids' humor. Yeah, yeah. But the audiences that were being entertained in those early movies were serious people laughing at the Marx Brothers and the Harpo. Today, it's like ludicrous. Well, it was...

Yeah, it's part of that 30s class warfare. I think I have this smart comedic palate. Meanwhile, I remember howling at Gilligan's Island. I mean, I don't know when I started deciding what was easy, funny, and what was smart, funny, but we were talking about Bob Newhart earlier, and Bob Newhart was very dry, and I...

I liked it for some reason, even though it was dry. And I was a kid going, this smash was funny, but it wasn't really like in your face, like a sitcom. And then, but I liked corny shit too. So I think over time, my, my comedy, you start to decide what you like and what you want to focus on, I guess. But there, but there are basic tenets of comedy, seeing the banana peel guy coming or the guy slipping. And then you'll see the banana peel. Those, those academic tenets,

analysis of of comedy they were yeah they were it's it's absolutely truthful so that that's funny you see the fat man coming you see the banana peel and he slips and you laugh i mean that's coming to your head you're like oh it's funny yeah it had to be when the guy put his axe down and brought in the dinosaur head

And then they did a joke about slipping on the dinosaur tail. They had to have been laughing a million years ago at that very basic comedy. On the other hand, slapping on the head and those jokes that the Marx Brothers did. Three Stooges, yeah.

Hitting, hitting people. Yeah, I think it was funny then, but not funny now. And I guess that's the changing tastes of funny. Although I think there are there are eternals of comedy that remain from Greek times to now. Well, they say there's only 12 notes and everybody, the Beatles and Beethoven and everybody else.

with those notes. And there's probably these basic tenets of comedy and we're just keep redoing the stew. And you try to add a little something. You do your version of that comedy. Yeah. Like people say, Oh, this movie is similar to that movie. And you're like, but it's two new people doing it 20 years later. And it's just different, but there are certain themes you're going to go into. The old girlfriend comes back or you do this. So every comedy movie is,

And every movie, movie, you know, you're going to fall into the same themes. What are you going to do with it? Are you going to make, put some spin on it, a little English to make it yours? As a Ford owner, there are lots of choices of where you get your vehicle serviced. You can choose to go to their place, the local dealership, your place, home, apartment, condo, your workplace, even your happy place, like your cottage on the lake.

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are a good source of just, you know, nibble, wake you up. They're always delicious. I actually named a character in a movie I did called Master of Disguise. The lead character's name is pistachio. That's how much I love pistachios. Ooh. Yeah. Well, wonderful pistachios have literally come out of their shells. It's the same taste. It's delicious, but...

It's a lot less work. As you know, cracking them open can be a little bit of a job. Less cracking, more snacking is what I say. That's what I say. That's what you say. And I'm going to use that when my wife goes to the store. Wonderful pistachios. No shells flavors come in a variety of award-winning flavors, including chili roasted. Honey roasted. Honey roasted.

Sea salt and vinegar, smoky barbecue. Sea salt and pepper is one I like the most. And I'm going to try this jalapeno lime. They don't have a red, red necky flavor just yet. Yeah, look at him there. Red, red necky loves pistachios. I like to crack things open and put them in my mouth.

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I was drawn to the musicality of Monty Python and Andy Kaufman and the non-punchline punchline. There's a perfect example of Kaufman. Yes. The reality and how... He played it so straight. He played it so straight.

In fact, when he was on taxi, that was funny. But when he did the wrestling, that wasn't funny. Right. I was not a huge Andy Kaufman guy. Unpopular opinion. Say that again. I wasn't a huge Andy Kaufman guy like Mickey Mouse. Maybe to me growing up, I was younger. It had to have a payoff or I didn't.

I didn't really get what was going on. And when everything was like wrestling was so straight, if it was a long play, I just wasn't grabbing it. And some of his stuff was really appreciated by a lot of comedians. And I was one of the few going,

I don't, I like taxi, like taxi. I got it. I was going to say, what did you think of taxi? I did like it. His performance in Taxi. Yeah, Lotka. Funny character. It was funny. It was a real character. Yeah. And it was funny the way he talked and the way he acted. That was comedy. But then in his attempt, I mean, it's really interesting. I'd be delighted to hear people talk about it. Andy Kaufman, did he,

desperately look for another gig and being the wrestler? Did he or did he go nuts and think, you know, I mean, what what happened to Ed Uppman? That's a really good question. I don't know. I mean, there was something it was like live.

gladiator in theater when he would go there and then he loved playing. He was satirizing sort of the big time wrestling guy being an anarchist in the in the arena and screaming at the crowd. But the late great Rob Williams told me a story once who knew Andy back in that time. And he met him for lunch or somewhere. And he noticed that Andy had the wrestling clothes on underneath his real clothes. This is just him out in the world.

And Robin members saying, Oh, Oh, Andy, what are you doing? What are you doing? Like maybe, maybe, maybe he tipped over someplace that we don't know where the line between performance and reality. I don't know, but like you're trying to get people that are guessing ahead of what you're doing and you're doing this long play. And then you do a joke. That's too much of a long play. And you start to lose people because you're out thinking everyone. And at certain point he lost me. Imagine the courage it took for a Dick Shawn.

Yes. I remember him very well. Died on stage. Okay. So you remember the great joke he told of, there's old grandpa coming up from the Civil War. Here he comes. He walks by. The pretend grandpa walks by. He does three minutes preparing you for the grandpa to walk past him. What happens if the audience doesn't laugh?

Which must have happened. Yeah. Well, I don't know. How many minutes do you get away with keeping them? I think there's, I think there's a lot of anger that floats around in comedy and some of the best comedy. And I do think that Andy had his good measure.

Uh, I, I sometimes stay at the park of Meridian in New York and they'll play chaplain shorts in the elevator and just go, there's a lot of pathos and it's brilliant, but there's a lot of anger floating around the way he walks and stuff. And comedians sometimes are the bullied ones, sometimes the underdog. And so that always is informing. I mean, I was,

before I had therapy, more passive aggressive, people pleasing. This was my disease. But in my characters, the church lady was kind of cruel in a funny way. Hans and Franz said, I could beat you up. You're a loser. So you just wonder, you know, if you turn the sound off and watch certain comedians, you just go, that's kind of an angry walk, you know? Well, and you could name those comedians right now. I know. We might get sued. Right, right, right.

Well, guys, it's been finished with part one. We'll take a break. Bill, I just want to say this has been so much fun. And I honestly don't know how you're you just don't. You seem decades younger as you articulate and philosophize with us.

And the strength of your voice. I don't really even understand it. I don't even need to have an answer. I'm just observing it. I don't have an answer. I don't have to have an answer. Good. I don't know. But I do think just for the rest of us. And I remember Lorne Michaels saying this. You just keep going. There is no retirement in show business. You just keep going. Well, it's the truth. You know, you just pay older people. I guess. Yeah.

But in your case, I don't know anything else. I can't go be a carpenter now. This is it. Right. Well, you know, there is a stage. That's another thing.

When you're in your 20s, I've got grandchildren who want to be actors. They're 15, 16 years old. I want to be an actor. So you're 20, 21, you're an actor, you're pretty, boy or girl, you've got physical beauty. And then you get to be about 30 and you're now half a step behind the 18-year-old coming up. You've got a decision to make. Are you going to continue? Mm-hmm.

So now you're going through your passages and you go through your 30s and you're still trying to do it. Now you're in your 40s.

what are you going to do okay no one thinks that far ahead no i think yeah i mean you well what about what about the 50s what happens in the 50s it's too late and you're in your 50s well you're both successful uh in that you've made a living you achieved a modicum of fame and you have

some treasure in your talent and in your bedroom. You know, you got white sheets, for God's sake, you know. But there come points in your life

That being an actor is, you don't have any skill to fall back on. You can't become a plumber in another, a plumber gains experience and gets to be a better plumber. An actor gains experience and it doesn't matter.

Right. Well, when I, when I grew up, all the comedians were old. It was just different. You know, Bob Hope, Jack Benny, they're all in their seventies. Like, you know, yeah, but they, they manufactured a joke. They had a writer or hopefully sometimes they wrote it. Yeah. Yeah. And they would make a political joke and it was funny. So, you know, you had a, a, a known quantity with a Bob Hope, uh, uh,

i want to tell you yeah a jack benny and you guys are you guys are the the latter day bob hopes you'll go to an event and be amusing in your character in your in your comedy you'll work till you're you're uh you fall off the stage and that's not funny dana's carol channing you can easily

Well, hello. I once played Regis on a short film and Carol Channing. I was running down a street in New York. I go, I got to go. I got to get to David Letterman. I'm sorry. I've got to go. And Carol Channing was doing a cameo. I'm sorry, Carol. I got to go. And so then I as Regis, I cold cocked her, knocked her down. It's just stuff you do and show. Dave's waiting for me. I'd love to talk to you. Honest to God, you're one of the greatest, but I got to go.

Don't you love Regis's voice? I mean, wasn't it just something about it? You know, kid, you're terrific. You do the space things and all you're doing. That's beautiful. You got it. You're doing a tremendous, tremendous job. Everybody's talking about it. You're the talk of the town. You're a Captain Cook. You're Denny Crane. Who knows where you're going? You're in outer space. Ladies and gentlemen, William Shatner was here today. And I'm telling you something. It was quite a treat. Joy and I love you very much.

I love the charm of Regis. Guys, you two are wonderful together. You're going to make a smash show. We're having fun. I'm delighted to be with you. We're so glad to have you on and keep doing what you're doing. And we'll have you back. The next time you go in space, we're having you back. Perfect. I'll be there. Take care, Bill. Good luck, fellas. Pleasure talking to you. Be well.

This has been a podcast presentation of Cadence 13. Please listen, then rate, review, and follow all episodes. Available now for free wherever you get your podcasts. No joke, folks. Fly on the Wall has been a presentation of Cadence 13, executive produced by Dana Carvey and David Spade, Chris Corcoran of Cadence 13, and Charlie Finan of Brillstein Entertainment. The show's lead producer is Greg Holtzman with production and engineering support from Serena Regan and Chris Basil of Cadence 13.

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