Ted Sarandos
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Yes, I have actually stayed at Airbnbs from time to time. And truth be told, I do really like them. I'm being totally honest right now that I've had great experiences with them. Yeah. I mean, you can have your look at you go get your own place, get your own pool, your own living room. You're not going to walk in an elevator. You're not going to see people when you're walking around in your undergarments. Yeah.

Yes. And if you don't understand what we're talking about, you should go online. What we're saying is you have a house with a kitchen and a bathroom and it's just for you, tailored for you. You liked your Airbnb over a hotel. Yes. And I do think I've had relatives stay nearby and sometimes it's very nice for them to do an Airbnb and have a little house and they're not underfoot. The last thing you want is your house guest to say, excuse me, um,

Where would I find a towel? That's a toughie when it's because they're naked. Well, it's like the 1800 time you say on the towel rack. Yeah. Thank you. I was going to look there. People don't even think hotels sometimes just go, hey, I'll go there. I'll get an Airbnb. So you won't regret it.

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At Robert Half, we know talent. Visit roberthalf.com today. Today's guest, David, is probably one of the most influential producers of television of all time, especially right now. Ted Sarandos of Netflix, who's in charge of billions of dollars allocated to shows and is also an incredible Saturday Night Live and stand-up comedy fan. He's a very good friend of David's. I know him

casually, but he's a really nice guy. David. I agree. Uh, he knows, uh, SNL. He knows the podcasts. He listens and has comments all the time, which is very nice for a guy who could not be more busy. Um, we talked about his schedule. We talked about all these shows. He has to keep an eye on the pressures of being the boss. Um,

I always think of him up in the world of those guys that run companies like Bezos. I think you were saying, you know, Ted's so normal. He's not jacked and juiced yet. He's the most regular, humble person you'd ever meet. He has not gotten on a boat. He hasn't made a boat. Yeah, he hasn't made a rocket ship yet. But he's just a powerful guy. He's very low key. So I like that kind of thing. Very fun. Great laugher.

knows a ton about comedy and we get into different comic specials and, uh, he gets a lot of pressure sometimes when things seemingly go too far. And what do you do about that? And, uh,

We had a lot of great talk with him and all of his shows he's doing that are hitting. And how do you know when the shows are hitting? All over the world. You know, what the Squid Game meant to these streaming platforms and one of the biggest hits in history and the authenticity of it and why. And so it's really just about the future. All this program. It's a lot of learning. Yeah, a lot of learning for me. I usually think I know everything, and I didn't, shockingly.

- Yeah, I tried to, I was a little pithy in the beginning. Netflix, flex flicks, what do you got? And I was kind of, I said, I, but you know, these live streaming shows and what they're doing and what the globalization, the monetization, any other zations, can you add it? - No, I think those are the zations. - Those are good. But it was a really fun talk and we laughed a lot and he loves comedy. Bada bing, bada boom. - Here he is.

Ted Sarandos. Ted Sarandos. What is your official title right now? Because it seems to jump around. Chief Executive Creative. I'm the co-CEO of Netflix.

Holy tomatoes. So does Reed Hastings has to worry about anything? Is any reason? Yeah, Reed is kind of, he's the chairman of the board now. He's very focused on his philanthropy. Ice fishing. He's built a ski mountain in Utah, actually. Wow. He owns Powder Mountain.

Powder Mourn. That's what I was going to do. It sounds like a Neil Young song. All to be on powder Mourn. Sorry. With the double meaning from the... Oh, I don't know about Neil. Oh, yeah. Cannabis, but... Oh, yeah. So you don't have a jettison. Like if you weren't doing this, what would you want to do? I don't... You know, honestly, next year, I'm 25 years at Netflix. And my whole... Yeah, so my whole career has been...

in either video stores or video distribution or Netflix. Yes. So if I was not doing this, I'd be probably doing much the same, many of the same things. Because I always thought if I didn't have to make money, I would operate a movie, a retrospective movie theater or something like that. Well, you're like Quentin Tarantino in that you both were steeped in movies from working and you managing regional video stores. And now you just said you'd like to have a vintage...

And Tarantino has one of those in LA. So do you mind if I call you Quentin for the rest of the interview? Please, please. I will direct 10 movies in my lifetime. That's right. They just ripped one down by the Grove. Is that true, Ted? There was one on Beverly by the Grove in Fairfax, old school one. I think they just- I think they had it closed down to remodel and just never reopened. Hopefully they're opening a Club Monaco or something important.

So I'd like to leave with this because it might put a smile on your face. So this is trending in these last few weeks.

The kids are all talking about this? Well, this is like media that covers companies. Netflix won the streaming wars. Does that make you smile? Make you go, we've got a lot of work to do? Or does that scare you in a way? Netflix won the streaming wars with 260 million subscribers. Well, two years ago, they were writing, bring in the paddles. I think we lost them.

I know, you're right. It turned. I told everyone here, don't take that headline seriously or take this headline seriously. That implies that the streaming wars are over. Streaming is just the natural evolution of media. It's what people want to

because it's on demand and it's in their control and they get tons of choice and the economics are so much better than the old pay TV model used to be. So I just think it's on where it's a natural course and it's very big in early, earliest days. So the,

there's no war that's over, but there's lots of battles and we're going to a nice battle. Well, the comedians doing Saturday Night Live theme podcast war has not been declared over, but we're in the conversation. Here's what my blink curious thing about you. You guys have a show.

And you think it's going to be a smash and whatever metrics you're using billions. And it just does, it underperforms and like, Oh, Holy shit. Or the opposite. Okay. Well, let's take a chance on that one. I don't know. And it's a smash. Yeah. So squid game versus, uh,

What was the biggest smash sort of surprise? Was Squid Game an actual surprise? Yeah, it's the most watched show in the history of the company around the world, including in the US. And it was a surprise in that it was really meant, like all of our local productions are meant to be thrilling to the local population. And they're not meant to be engineered to be global or anything. So what we found is that the more authentically local a show is,

weirdly, the more it travels. Because I think people see it as more authentic and real. So in that case, it was a relatively expensive Korean television show. But it actually just, within about three days on Netflix, it just exploded everywhere. Did you pick it up or did you go produce it and put it together? So the director, Wang, who was pitching it, had pitched it around the world for about 10 years as a movie.

And our Korea team, which is incredible, and our office in Seoul met with him and said, this is a pretty on the nose Korean cinema, you know, sci-fi story. Have you thought about exploring and opening the world up a lot more? And came up with the idea. And he went off and rewrote the scripts. Smart. And I saw a picture on your Instagram.

Ted, I don't follow many people, so this is sort of... I'm going to hear this one. But he... I think you're on the set of... Squid Game 2. Yeah. Season 2, and they're shooting right now. It was this place like three hours outside of Seoul, so it was like a fun cultural immersion. You know what they have in Korea that's incredible? The road stop. The rest stops. Mm-hmm.

Oh, they do. Ours are kind of scary in the United States. Or they're closed. Yeah, the ones here, spotless clean. In Korea, spotless clean.

I have like top line, like very high end food courts in them and all the regional foods. Like people, like if you live there, you'd actually drive to the rest stop to get the regional food from that area of Korea. Go on dates, go to the old rest stop. It's a good date night. It's a good date night. You know, so Netflix, you guys, the red envelopes and the DVDs, that was a revolution at the time. Weirdly, only mailed our last DVD about four months ago. That's what I heard about because there was something...

Just nice about it. The consistency of the branding, the red envelope and the ease of that. So that was like you and Reed and your other people work with you. Yeah. Breaking something new. Then of course, watch on your computer. I can watch a movie on computer. And I do think house of cards was the first that I remember live streaming. And my wife and I didn't even know.

about live streaming. We had a bad wifi connection, so it would stop every two minutes and we'd have to do this whole thing. And we just thought, well, maybe it'll get better in the future. But anyway, that was a big thing. Like Netflix, you know, your brand completely shifted with that decision. Did you, I mean, that was a huge, huge moment for your company, right? At that time, 10 years ago.

Yeah, you know, it was 2012. And at the time, we were building the business up to do streaming. But what's interesting about it is Reed Hastings, this incredible visionary, when I met him in 1999, he talked about Netflix just like this. And it's all digital, totally global. The only thing he didn't see in that vision was doing original programming.

He thought this would be a better distribution solution, but you know, we're a tech company. We weren't a creative company. Like blockbuster, but you just pick one that goes out. Yeah. You're saying something like that. Yeah. So for us, I went and so we were just in a routine meeting with the producers of house of cards who also produced a bunch of movies. And they said, this is going to be their first TV package. And did we want to look at it? And I looked at the package that they put in front of us, which was,

you know, David Fincher directing television, uh, this Oscar nominated writer writing the scripts and Kevin Spacey, when that was a good thing, starring Robin Wright. Great. I mean, it was like, yeah, great actor. Great actor. Yeah. Hastings didn't have any, uh, psychic visions about him. No, no,

But when they brought it in, I said, look, if we were ever going to get into originals, this would be the one. It's like the perfect package. We had three scripts. It wasn't like we had to do all the development work. And and I looked at it. I said, we greenlit the show. We kind of famously gave a two season order, which was pretty unheard of at the time. Yeah, mostly because there's no reason you would take a desirable show to Netflix back then.

Oh, just to get ahead of it. Did you overpay? What did you pay? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we paid the basic, it was about a hundred million dollar commitment to this. But I don't think anyone's even heard of that much money. At the time. I remember it was bold. It was full boat as they call it money. So then we did the move. I came back, I tell Reed that I made the deal and he's like, well,

I thought we don't do this. And I said, yeah, I go. But for me, honestly, it was if we if this show works, it will fundamentally change the course of our business. And if it doesn't, we'll have overpaid for a show, which we do all the time.

Well, if it was a race, you got out of the blocks first and everyone went, whoa, there's hit shows because the show of the moment was on Netflix. Yeah. And so that's huge. And people forget too, we had, before we did that, we had like 25 million people streaming on Netflix.

So if you start, you know, trying to, if I tried to build the whole business on our original programming over the last 10 years, we would not be where we're sitting right now. Well, well, the other thing, I don't know if it's revolutionary, but you re putting shows that like Arrested Development,

that get rediscovered on Netflix has become another lane in your, your brand. Obviously the office was huge and so forth and so on. So you had to pay a lot for that. Those were gambles at the moment, right? Well, remember when we were licensing at the beginning, all those shows, nobody really knew what this right was. This, the streaming rights for a show, it was either a home video, right. Or a digital right. And the people didn't really know different studios had it all constructed differently. Um,

when it came to, um, so television, what we were able to license was shows that didn't have enough seasons to get the syndication and we're off the air. Okay. So weirdly, um, arrested development was off the air the year that we were going. And so we have the ability to do arrested development and on DVD, it was a very popular shows. And we knew that from our own DVD rental data was that people love the show. And I,

And I actually think that for Arrested Development was one of those shows that was literally ahead of its time. Most people say that when they're trying to make you feel good because your show bombed. This thing really was ahead of its time. Like if you watched it, you really had to binge it because the joke sets up in episode one and pays off in episode four.

And you really kind of have to watch it in one sitting to see that play out. And binging, you know, streaming on Netflix was a way to do that. So that's why I did that. One of our earliest decisions after House of Cards was to reboot Arrested Development. So it's sort of hunch plus data. Yeah. And plus you're a comedy fan. And so you like good comedy and that's, you're like, this one's actually sort of a clever, interesting comedy people would appreciate. And the fact they blow up,

You know, it really reinvigorates a lot of these shows, Suits especially. Suits was crazy, but that was, you know, in the earliest Breaking Bad and Walking Dead. We had all those shows right after they were on, right after the season, after they aired on television. And they were small culty shows that just blew up because of Netflix. Yeah.

Wow, Breaking Bad. You're into more live stuff now, and we did the Chris Rock thing. Yeah, you guys were part of that history with us. Yeah, I was afraid to talk. I never felt more like a white guy in my life. I should just stay quiet right now. But I got to hang out with Jabbar backstage and talk to him about it. So that was fantastic.

a thrill. It was fun. It was fun. You're going more into live. Is that just one area that you guys haven't quite cracked or, or what are you looking for in live? What, what, what is appealing live that you guys gravitate towards? I'm looking for things that actually are creatively better because they're alive. Um, but you know, Saturday night live is one of those things that people tune into to see what's going to happen. And I do think part of the liveness of it is part of the pitch. Um, Chris rock live was an exciting one for us because, um,

You know, it had been a year that Chris had not talked about what happened at the Oscars and he was going to in that set. And there was enough, you know, people wanted to hear that story that the liveness of it really mattered. So it was the most watched streaming comedy special since they started tracking it.

And I know internally it was the most talked about for sure of the year because people were rushing home to watch the Chris Ruck part. What about the after show? How did that do in terms of numbers? It was actually, it held on. It held on both the pregame and the after. No, it actually did. It was fun to do because we,

We want, I mean, talk about like doing, working without a net. We had never streamed anything live and we actually did it in two different cities and pitch back and forth and all this stuff. So our teams were really chopping off a bunch. Are you getting, are you ironing it all out now? Like every time you do it, it's a little easy. What have you done since? What are you, you're doing a tennis thing. Yeah, that's it. And then we, and they have, and Saturday night we have the SAG awards live on Netflix as well. Oh, this, okay. Saturday night.

Yeah. And then, uh, and then we just announced we did this big deal with WWE. So WWE raw is going to be on every week on Netflix starting in 25. Um, and the, uh, the T got the tennis one coming. Uh, and then we're going to do a bunch of live stuff from the Netflix is a joke festival this summer. Oh, right. So you can sort of how, how much lead time, sorry, Dana, how much lead time do you need? If you say, you know, something's coming up, it sounds kind of cool. Can we get in there?

I mean, remember, we're not actually, we hadn't been built for live. So this is all technology for us. So we probably need 60, 60 days or so to get the resources. That's the right answer. Thank you. Excellent. Here's a, here's a business question, which I don't know if you want to answer, but the NFL, the money that they're getting, and I don't know if I got this right, but I believe Amazon, maybe you're a competitor. They paid a billion dollars for,

eight or 10 Thursday night footballs. Is that right? In that area. Yeah. Yeah.

Man, that son of a gun. He's on the yacht. He's a bitch. I think actually it shows you like the thing I always talk about. I'm not like people say Netflix is against live sports for some reason. No, we're not. Not at all. Just that those big league live sports, the demand for them is so great that whatever distributor is doing it doesn't really bring much value to it. So they don't get much margin for it. They don't get much profit.

profit out of that. And so we were able to, over the last 25 years, build a gigantic company without having a loss leader product. And I think sports generally, big league sports, tends to be a loss leader for television.

So at some point, you know, I'm pretty, I'm very confident we can be twice as big as we are today without doing that. But who knows beyond that? Are you talking a half billion subscribers? If I run the numbers right in my head, you have, you've rounded, you've rounded down, done the math pretty well. You're at 260 and you can double it. Wait, Dana, what about that paramount plus bullshit when they try to throw that in? I hate those guys.

That drove me nuts. I don't like, I like Netflix. I don't like those. I don't like them. Listen, I'm in my hotel trying to hook my phone up to my laptop, to my TV. And I got a, uh,

on the ceiling. I'm like, how do I get parents? I just want to come home and watch the goddamn game. But if that's the future, I mean. Oh, you're talking about Peacock. Peacock did that for them. Peacock forced for the playoff game. You had to join Peacock. Yeah. Anybody. Yeah, it was Peacock. It tells you, like again, 26 million people or something watched it, but they went from nothing to that. So it's the big

People like football, it turns out. Sure, but it was sort of a forced situation I didn't love. Well, to your point, it's live. You don't know what's going to happen. There's a huge gambling component. And then the Taylor Swift effect of like millions of- Fantasy football. Fantasy football. And millions of young women now like-

are interested in football. To gamble. Yeah. And gamble. They like to gamble too. You're right, Dan. They want to gamble. They can come lose and play fantasy football when I lose. It's very addictive losing. I saw, I'm not going to, I'm not going to put in a pitch for this for them, but I saw a product that the NFL is working on that basically incorporates football

all your fantasy football picks, your gaming and everything. So you're watching on a night, you pull out your iPad and watch the game through the lens. As it's a lens, like it's almost like a, like a screen where it's also all that shit while you're watching. I'm sure the future is like, I'm surprised states don't have gambling everywhere because everyone's willing to lose everything just to gamble. And it just, it seems to be everywhere. Some states I land, I can't play it on my phone. Some I can.

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That's $50 off with CodeFly at BlueNile.com. BlueNile.com. Ted's from Arizona, Dana, just so FYI. I remember you two guys are Arizonians. Dana, you met some of my high school buddies. I did. It was interesting because I have a lot of the same friends that I had in high school or college. And so it was neat that all your friends were just...

Just knew you when, and just completely real regular people. You haven't dumped them yet. It wasn't like an Oscar party there. I mean, Jason Bateman was there. It was cool to meet him. David Spade was there. Mr. Chappelle was there. Yeah. Oh yeah. It was a fun night. That was a fun night. By the way, with Chappelle, I got two stories for Chappelle.

Just to interrupt you. He's really good at it. One is just, first of all, I think it's nice that you're, you know, I've known you as a comedy fan for years and years. And so that's truly who you are. So when you back people, when they do a special or you have to come out and get in front of something and say, I do back a comedian saying what they want, doesn't mean you agree with it. Doesn't mean that you just mean let, let people talk. I think that's commendable, especially we're comics. So of course we like that.

Uh, definitely. It's a big bookstore. You, you can open any book you want or not, you know, and people like to think about all kinds of diversity except for diversity of thought. And I think comedy is one of these places where you should have a pretty open playground to figure out, you know,

ideas and ideas, you know, have to live through conversation. And I think comedy is a great place to start the conversation. Right. And some people don't agree. Some people do. And it's under the guise of a joke. Sometimes it's, it's, it's in the title. It's a joke. It's in the title. It's not my stock and trade, but I do think the comedic mind, you're not supposed to say this makes you want to say it, you know, you can say all these things up, but not that thing. You're like, well, wait a minute. You know, if it,

you immediately got to, you immediately want to crack that puzzle. Yes. Right. I mean, watching comedy, you sometimes people like that when they say, Oh, he went pretty far. I don't agree with that, but yeah, they're trying stuff. It's not the same six jokes that everyone's allowed to use. I think it's funny. I think that people like, you know, when they talk about comedy and try to put it into camps and like, well, so people talk to,

work blue and some people don't and one's better than the other. I actually think it's, they're just, it's an art form that has a lot of different shapes. And if you, some people like if you do shock comedy,

the hard thing I've been watching a lot of comedy over the years, like the hard thing is getting the audience back. So it's actually just a different kind of art when you want out and got, cause it's not just a cheap laugh. You have to actually bring the audience back in too. So it's an, you have to be able to master a lot of different things. And you also have to have a clever angle. I mean, if you want to keep a crowd, if you're going to do these things, if you have an interesting angle or something that comes out of nowhere, I think it makes it smarter. And there's,

It's more fun to listen to, but you're also more of a connoisseur. You've been doing it all your life and now you're seeing every special. And then you've got Hannah Gadsby. You've got the different ranges of people. And then people get mad at you and then they come back and do a special again. And you're like, okay, well, I think down deep, they know you're letting these things go on. So they go, oh, this is the place to do it. Yeah. And I think it's a hard thing for me too, that, you know, the,

To keep in mind that we try to do a lot of variety because just like Netflix itself, people like some shows. I don't like that's what we have so much to watch on Netflix because tastes are really diverse. And it's certainly within comedy. So to with, you know, from the point I was trying to make when people got angry was this idea that, you know, if you don't like that idea, switch it and find another one. Find one you do. It seems pretty simple choices. Yeah. Yeah. And what about Chappelle when we when when we had your party the other night?

And he has all these people over the Grammy. Chappelle's up for one. I think Wanda Sykes, maybe. Maybe Aziz was up for one. And Chris Rock. Sarah Silverman. And Sarah Silverman, yeah. So Ted went around. First of all, it's the most fun, Dana. You were invited. You couldn't come, but you're obviously invited. I heard all about it. It's so fun. So he's got two tables. It's pretty much only comedians. We all have a place setting. And so you sit down. And then Ted walks around.

And it's pretty hard to do this, Ted. It stops at each person. Sarah Silverman's here and she's done this and this, and we all know her from this and this. And then he was, and I go, oh my God, he's doing it to everyone. And it's so hard. He had to keep us entertained, know the credits, know something about the person. And he's going down, up and down. Remember this, Ted? Yeah, I'm kind of ready. And he gets, and so-

Arsenio Hall was outside. You remember this? So he's outside. Ted has already thanked Dave Chappelle, you know, all the people actually up for Grammy for the dinner. And he does this whole thing about Chappelle. Very nice. Then Chappelle standing behind me for some reason. And so when Ted gets to me, right when he gets to me to just fawn over me for, I was about to fawn. And he was really just working his way to the, to the main event, which is me. And then,

So here, so Arsenio goes, do Dave Chappelle, he's hiding behind. And you're politely like, well, I did talk about Dave, but you know, I'll say a few words again. And Dave takes the mic. There was a mic? Was there a mic? No, no mic. He just took the mic. Okay. He's, but he's got a voice. And he says, uh,

I can't believe I'm here with all my favorite comedian. He's so nice. And then he starts going to each person and I'm like, wait, is he doing what Ted's doing? And so now I'm staring cause I've got, uh, there's a little shrubbery on the tables, but I've got, um, Allie Wong and Bill Hader right in front of me. So, and rock is behind. So I'm next.

And Ted's just waiting to keep going. And Ja'Fel did probably 15 minutes. He did like a set. And then he stopped. And then Ted's like, and David's face. He had to get right. He had to hold your face in the house. Yep. It was like, and the professor and Marianne, he kind of wrapped it up. He's like, oh, there's Chris Rock and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But it was pretty hilarious because everyone was waiting.

I'll tell you a very short story about Ted, because I do think it speaks to your vibe. Ted's character of someone in your position. I would just say you don't have an ego around it at all. And that informs you all the time. Because we know heads of big things in Hollywood. You know, there's a lot of, you know, hey, kid, and, you know, all that kind of stuff. And you're the opposite. So Mike and I, Mike Myers and I, Wayne's World, we're

280. Excellent. Inflation adjusted 400 million. Inflation adjusted. So we're sitting at a table and Ted comes over. There's no chair around. So Ted takes a knee beneath Mike and I and talks to us for 15 minutes as a fan of all comedy and everything.

I mean, it was the most, you know, and then sounds about right. I said, well, Ted, you're, you know, very nice. Yeah. And Ted's very polite. Thank you. Yeah. It's like, he goes, this was my favorite moment of the Oscars. Then he leaves. And I said, my wife, well, that's the guy who runs Netflix. She's like, what? She goes, who's that? Who's that joker? Who comes over? So anyway, I just wanted the audience to know that about you. And that's why people come to your house and you're, you're popular for a guy in that position you're in.

You wear it very well, that's all I'll say. - Well, thank you, man. Look, I think probably I came to this completely as a fan. And I think a lot of folks in my role,

work their way up from the mailroom or from the junior development positions and those kinds of things. You got to grind it down and grind it down to a place where they don't really like the thing they do anymore. And I love it. And I love creative people. I love what you do for the world. And for me, it's like, I think it's really, it's what makes me bounce out of bed in the morning because I feel like I'm doing something that matters to people. And really it's what you do. And it's enabling that is the important part. It sounds overwhelming to have

so much on your plate because I don't even know if you still sit in pitch meetings or, but it's probably, there's probably too many things going on, but just the, the,

global, the markets and what's going to be a hit. You have to love it because the hours suck. Oh my God. Just the fact you go to the set and go to sold and go to that, that's three days out of your life just for one thing. And David, you probably know this too, but when I say I came to this as a fan growing up in Phoenix, it wasn't that easy to be a fan of entertainment. Didn't really come to Phoenix that much. It wasn't bumping. No. And then David, I remember because I used to, in Arizona I grew up, you could

The drinking age was 19. So you could start sneaking into bars when you're like 16, 17. And all my friends went to the different dance clubs and that kind of stuff. And I didn't dance. So I used to go to the comedy club and I would see a young David Spade, you know, early. And by the way, I was thinking about this the other night.

When I was seeing David do his stand-up, this was like Anderson's Fifth Estate, NFL, Chuckles, Finney Bones. David would get up and do something that I couldn't put my finger on because I hadn't yet seen enough comedy, I think, to understand how different what you were doing was in Arizona.

Um, you were doing like a New York brand of comedy that I had not seen before. And I know, and I know it wasn't, you're not from New York, so it wasn't that, but it was that level of kind of, and I, when I finally realized what you were doing is at Chuckles one night, I went to see a Belzer.

And I go, oh, that is what that is. The vibe. That's the rhythm. That's the that the sarcasm, the whole bit of it like that to me is the clearest line I could see from someone else to what you were doing at that time was was Belzer. Oh, that's not you know, when I when I started, I only knew people from The Tonight Show. You know, I'd only watch that. So I was sort of luckily not.

so influenced by if I grew up on the East coast, you're seeing 10 comics a night at the clubs, you know, they're all pretty smooth. And so not knowing as much, I'm doing weirder bits because I don't know what's right or wrong. You're just trying stuff. That's funny to be my friends. And that sort of helped me. And I only really got into the improv when I came out, I think I was 19 or I was 20.

Because I just, looking back, I had a different look. I had a kind of a clever act, not a ton of material, but I was blonde hair. Everyone else was Belzer. It was Leno, Belzer, all those guys. But it was the confidence level that Belzer has on stage. That's what I saw. And it was very interesting to see it in a very young guy.

Yeah. And there was really no confidence there. Fake it till you make it. I saw, I saw bells or catch a rising star in the seventies, I think. And he was doing it. Yeah. He was the ultimate just powerhouse cocky. And he was doing a bit about a proctology bit, you know, keep, keep, keep out of my ass. Okay. Here's a 20 stay out of my ass. And then, you know, obviously he was an influence on Dennis Miller who then took it to his own, uh,

his own place, but that kind of sarcasm and specificity, I see a lot of Dennis and David at times, and also calling back quickly words and references. So, yeah. And I think that this idea that if something didn't work, it wasn't the end of the set or the end of my day. It's like you had to just flow right into something that make fun of the audience for not laughing at the joke. Right, right, right, right. Yeah. Sometimes when I first went on at Chuckles,

at a at an amateur night my literally first night the guy said uh i think i told you this day when he i get off just some guys he's the manager he doesn't probably give a fuck about comedy but i go hey man how was it knowing i bombed and uh and but i wanted to come back even though it's probably free to do four minutes and he goes i don't know it was all right he goes actually what you said between was funnier and then he walked away and i was like

And then that's my whole life. That's my whole life. Self-deprecating. You know what to do. Yeah, you know what to do. Throw away jokes, this kind of thing. And then it just turned into that. Yeah, you were the opposite of please love me. Maybe I was in that mode at one point. Come on, everybody. In those Phoenix days, Dana, I saw you at the Celebrity Theater. Oh, did you see that SNL show with Kevin Nealon, Dana, and Dennis? Was it me, Dennis, and Kevin? That's unreal. I saw that. I was so jealous. You were there too, David?

That was the swatch tour. I think I just went to watch. Yeah. I wasn't on SNL yet. And I was like, holy shit. I think they were getting six grand a night and I was shitting. Oh yeah.

I couldn't believe it. I remember that show because it was the three of us. And I don't know. I think I came back and then someone I'm on stage and someone had a big stock of broccoli and threw it as hard as they could. Hit me in the back. Hit you in the back. I went back with Mike Myers there, actually, and he opened for me. But that was a that's a cool theater. I mean, in the round is can be in the round. But I remember that's where Nate Bergazzi did a special. Yeah.

Louis. Because it was an embarrassment of riches for comedy because it was drivable from LA. Yeah. So all the people that can go and work on the weekends in Phoenix. Always great audiences, the improv and stuff. Like, sophisticated but not cynical. You know? It was going to be terrible audiences because it was hot. So people would be working outside and a little bit drunk and tired from being hot. But the audiences always were great. Yeah. You know what's funny is...

Ted's my same age, Dana. And I think, right, Ted? Yeah, 47. When you grow up in Arizona, I was like so into Gilligan's Island and, you know, Happy Days and Mork and Mindy. And it's funny that you can laugh at those and be so...

and love them so much but later you go that's a little corny or that's a little not what i do it's hard to steer because you're told that's funny you know all those shows they were funny though yeah i don't know what about it but it wasn't totally my style but at the time i was yeah i couldn't get enough of those shows were you into those shows oh yeah but that for comedians there was there were tropes i mean one thing you would do this is an old reference but you

You get the microphone cord, you go up and you wave the microphone cord and go rolling, rolling, rolling. Keep them doggies going. You know, there was a lot of those. Don't tell everyone that.

But yeah, I do all that stuff. I haven't seen him around in a while, but Tim Thomerson, remember that guy? Oh, yeah. We did all the stagecoach. John Wayne stuff. Well, we're going over the hill, Pappy. And all the sound effects. You know, Rosetta Stone, the most trusted language learning program. Oh, yeah. If you want to learn a new language, which no time like the present, it's always fun to learn when you get older.

I know. And it's not learning a language when you're older, you know, over the age of 20 is difficult. You know, I mean, all the high school Spanish I took a grade school Spanish, you know, all I can say is Ola and hasta luego. So it goes out of your head. So now you have Rosetta stone, David, tell them about it. Well, Dana, you know, more than anyone trusted expert for 30 years with millions of users in 25 languages. Uh, I mean, my gosh, uh,

They have Spanish, French, Italian, German. I don't think you can throw them a curveball. I think they're going to know. What don't they have? The language you want. Yeah. And immerses you in many ways. There's no English translations. You know what I'm saying?

I know no English. You need a Rosetta Stone for English. No English translation, so you really learn to speak and listen and think in that language. That's the whole idea of Rosetta Stone is that it sticks to your head. It sticks to your brain. I learned German out of a book. It just doesn't stick as hard, so this is the way to do it. Designed for long-term retention.

There's a true accent feature. It gives you feedback on your pronunciation. Yes. And of course, there's desktop app options. There's an audio companion and ability to download lessons offline. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so that's great. Lifetime access to all 25 language courses Rosetta Stone offers for 50% off. A steal! Oh, my gosh. And I do think that the off-label thing that... I'm ad-libbing now, going off script.

is that when you learn a language and you learn to pronunciate the words in that language, you start to learn about the people who live there and speak that language. Sort of a subtle, intuitive way of integrating with the culture. A little different, yeah. Don't put off learning that language. There's no better time than right now to get started. For a very limited time, Fly on the Wall listeners can get Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off.

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I mean, I do like the assortment pack of standup. I do like that. You know, the Kenison can come on or carrot top, you know, Kenison, not anymore, obviously, but in the day it was a lot of different styles of comedy. Do you think this is a good question for you? Where are we right now in the world of standup? Are they mimicking each other? Is Shane the newest kind of different type of guy? I mean, how do you, how do you see it?

I think comedy always comes in waves. And I think there's this interesting wave right now with Nate and Shane, too. I think that helps a bit. But basically, there's a group of folks who...

appeal to a, to an audience and then they can get it broad. And then another one. So someone comes out, they make it broad. So I really feel like, like, like no other time you kind of really have to pay attention to who's out there and what they're doing. And tick tock can give you a funny read on things. Uh, for the most part, what you want to see is just somebody, the way an audience really reacts to, to, to the comedian, which you don't see at all in social media. Well, that's the, yeah, that's the other revolution for, for people of my age group. It's like comedians are not household names.

sell out arenas. They either have a podcast or their Netflix special. I did. I was on Bert Kreischer shows. Super nice. Great. And he was flying. He was going to go to Europe the next day and he's playing, he's going to headline Berlin. And, uh,

Edinburgh, it's like amazing. One of our early specials we did with Bill Burr, and I remember Bill called and said, hey, are you guys in like other countries? I go, yeah, he goes, yeah, because I just sold out shows in Denmark and Norway. And so it really, I think that that Netflix special is the thing that's kind of at the center of the business battle. You definitely need it because the formula now, Dana, and you know this and Ted knows this, is like,

These guys that are, you work on your hour. Everyone talks about their hour. They're getting together. It's always like it's insinuated. It's for Netflix, but they're not buying them all, but they're like, I'm working on my hour. I'm doing my special. Doesn't mean Netflix is paying for it. Some people are just too new and they're not good enough, but they, the idea is to get an hour to hopefully get on Netflix. And then that's a big calling card around the world. And then you go tour, you have to sort of come up with a pretty new hour and

go out so you bring a crowd out nate is great at this nate brigazzi did this and it just got bigger every time and then you get more fans yeah you go out live and they see you then they go look for your new hour and then you and burt did that and you know segura and bill burr all these guys are and you have to be good and then they show up and then you just keep and no one was playing theaters like ted back in scottsdale

leno maybe played gamage auditorium or celebrity but or seinfeld maybe i think you i think i ran into you at the seinfeld show at gamage and i oh wow i don't remember who i was trying to think of the other day whether it was leno with him maybe because they did it was definitely seinfeld you were sitting like two rows ahead and we jesus you know and that was hard to fill a theater and you know i i when i do clubs during snl or just shoot me

or whenever, I would always just go book. Even if it's an Irvine improv, you do even seven nights. It's a big room. But I never thought about jumping to theaters. And then my manager was like, why don't you just ever just book a theater tour? You never...

if you're filling out this many seats in the... Yeah. And so, I go to people who do that, they're like, everyone's doing that. I was really late to the game. I think, I heard Bert Kreischer describe like the whole business of how to book clubs and how to do a Netflix special, what to do after that. Mm-hmm.

He's like, he's a very, he's super tuned into the business model for sure. And he has a pod and he has clips out. And then like Bobby Lee, Theo, like these guys, it's a whole, I know the younger generation really loves them. Yeah. Yeah. It's great. And it can put you, I mean, like you said, if it's a great hour, it can definitely change the trajectory of everything and you can build on it and build on it. And it's a recurring thing. It has been working now for years and it could be, and for me, I've been back to the diversity part. It might be something as big as,

50,000 people at Dodger stadium for Gabe Iglesias or, or Norm McDonald's last special. He just shot it like this in front of a webcam. Actually less than this. We watch, we watch it. We watch it together. We were like, Oh, so this, I mean, you know what? It's the, it's the material. Everyone worries about the backdrop and the shit. Yeah. Are you funny or not? It really, you can look through all the clutter and Norm was funny. Just talking, uh,

And the guys who play Dodger Stadium are funny. How many do you do? Do you do one? Is it up to one a week now or not? There's a bunch. There's ones that we film. There's some that we license. So between all that, there's probably one a week that'll come out.

Yeah. It was funny. The, uh, when I first signed Chris to do his first special on Netflix, Chris goes, you got a lot of ordinaries, not a lot of specials. Well, it used to be a really a big, a huge deal, but I mean, for you personally, it must be kind of satisfying, especially somebody who's kind of treading along sort of their first big break and then it's happening on your platform and then their dreams come true.

Kind of a fun part. It is the best. Because you think about, again, kind of this is that technology, internet, what it brings to things, like what it would have taken for a Bert Kreischer,

to turn into a Bert Kreischer, you know, without it, it would have been really tough and long and hard. Ali Wong really did that pregnant one. It was great. Yeah. And then, and then you start rippling across the things like she just, now she has won all the awards for beef and, you know, she did, made a really great movie for us a couple of years ago.

So I think there's the cool thing is because we do so much, the platform is so open. You can, you know, David has done three great movies for Netflix and a couple of great Netflix specials. Well, what was the billions of minutes that World Missy got? I love the metric of billions of minutes watched for World Missy. It's getting up there. But you always mention Wrong Missy. I think The Do-Over is another. Oh, The Do-Over. Well, I have to give that a little bit to Sandler.

because we did it together. He gets some credit. I always say that whenever his name is mentioned on the podcast. But I did Father of the Year, which was for Tyler, who wound up directing Wrong Missy. But Father of the Year

I think I talked to you guys after it and maybe Scott Stuber said, Hey, this did really well for us. We're going to keep looking for another one. And I'm like, Oh, it came out. Like it was when you didn't know how well it went because it just came out and people would say, Hey, I saw father of the year and you go great. But by the time wrong, Missy came out, there was numbers at the bottom. And when it said number one, that means something. Now it's like looking in the paper and seeing what was the number one movie this weekend. So you go,

One of you guys, you told me it was doing well. Then you said it's number one. Then he says number one in the world. Yeah. And then it was still. And then it just kept going. So luckily, The Wrong Missy really was another generation of people that have a big movie out that they...

I get talked about every day. And it's fun. I talk to filmmakers all the time. And I do think that they really like the idea of the movie going through the traditional release and all those things because that's what they grew up on. But the truth is they all say the same thing, which is when my movie premieres on Netflix, I hear it from the world. And it used to be that I would be screaming it to the world that my movie's out. Now the world tells me my movie's out. Yeah, that's true. That's true because it could be the next day you can hear about it. Yeah.

And it was unfortunately during COVID, so I had to throw myself a little party. By the way, I was wondering how much I love this podcast because it's all about SNL and because David knows I love SNL stories. I love listening to everything you got.

And I heard you, Bill Simmons. What's going on in that guy's life that he knows every single thing that ever happened? I was like, Ted's the biggest fan. I got nervous. Ted hits me when he hears almost every podcast. He knows he's listening somewhere. So that was one of the reasons we thought it'd be fun to have you on. And then Bill Simmons, really aficionado. He really...

He had some deep cuts and he didn't want to talk about anything sports. We had all these sports questions for him. He was that encyclopedic. That's pretty, it was spooky listening to. I was stunned when I said, okay, what was the sketch of the night on the, when Michael Jordan hosted? Oh, that was Stuart Smalley. Yeah. And if you'd given me 15 minutes, I might've come up with that. I'm good enough. I'm going to also, when Michael Jordan was the, um, we were the all, uh,

white basketball team in the 50s and we didn't want him on our team. It was like all of us were the shitty players and we're like, we don't like this guy. I was thinking about what he said, something interesting about his age when the show started and all that. He's two years younger than... Did he say 68 or 69? That's when he was...

When he was born? Oh, yeah. Because when he was in grade school and high school, it was a perfect time. Yeah. So me, I'm a complete TV nerd. I grew up like the reason I think that my direct line to why I love comedy so much was I didn't sleep a lot as a kid. And I used to watch all the old TV shows, Burns and Allen and Jack Benny, who were doing stand up essentially and then acting out the shows.

And then, and so it was a real natural then to Carson. And so when SNL came on, I was a 10, I guess I was 10 years old. I was born in 64. So 11. Yeah. And loved, would not miss an episode, you know, an episode. And then,

And an album, they released a comedy album, the best of SNL just played like a comedy album and I play it nonstop. So I remember all those bits by line, but you know, word for word, the word association with Jimmy Chase. Oh yeah. I got in trouble. I got in trouble in school for repeating it.

Oh, yeah. Of course you did. Even like the dumb things like the singing group with Gilda and Jane Curtin and Lorraine Newman. That's the tribute to Chevy Chase song. Yeah. Chevy, we love when you fall down. Yeah. On my TV. But so just like kind of being able to memorize and watch over and over again and see it. And that's before the Internet. You know, so the idea that it's been that.

incredibly socially and relevant. And nothing I think will ever touch the relevance of Lorne and SNL in show business history. No, I don't know if you've heard this quote. Steve Higgins told me that Lorne wrote the constitution of Saturday Night Live, and then he lets each cast and the writers kind of own it in their own way, and he's sort of a guiding...

person there. It'd be nice if, uh, there was, if Jan was in that sketch, you know, I mean, he sort of moves the sketches around very subtly. Toyota's national sales event is happening now, meaning it's a great time for a great deal on a dependable Toyota truck like the Tundra workhorse by nature powerhouse by design combines raw capability with premium comfort and advanced tech to fuel your wildest adventures.

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We've done your homework. Any, any Lauren story before we got to let you go? Yeah, no, I mean, my connection to the show only, only is mostly fandom. Going to see the show live to me is still the most thrilling thing to do in the world.

I never tire of it. The first time I got invited, I got Lauren invited me and I got that seat like right in the center above the week, you know, the center stage. Oh, right on top. Yeah. Which I said, well, this is the best seat in the house. Yes. And,

And right after the monologue, his assistant came up and said, hey, Lorne would like to know if you wanted to come down underneath and watch a show with him. And I go, will he ever invite me back if I say no? Because I really want to see how it works. This is an incredible vantage point. And she goes, yeah, sure, he'll understand. And I didn't go down and he did invite me back. So I think it was Cameron Diaz was hosting that.

That night. And my buddy, Isaac, who you guys met, text me during the show to say, are you at SNL? Because he could hear me laughing. Because I might be right above my head. But they had. But then every time I've gone back, though, it's just I marvel at it just feels to me like exactly what TV was like.

you know, 50, 70 years ago, even at the beginning of television that Brad mad rush between breaks for all the changes. And so for me, that's amazing. Our history with SNL is that Dave Chappelle actually signed his Netflix contract the night he hosted SNL after the election. And we had been talking to him for well over a year. And he said at the show, we went to the, and they said, my, my contract is signed and sitting on the seat.

So he just signed it, set it on the scene, went out and hosted the show. That was a pretty change. That's funny. Very cool. Yeah. And then, and then from Lauren and I've gotten to know Lauren over the years and I'm just, I hugely admire. It's hard to say that you get to become friends with someone you were so idolized like that. But I, I, I count him as a friend and we,

We were going to, last year, be co-honored by this organization called PEN America. And because of the Writers Guild strike, it got kind of nasty. And they had threatened to boycott it and all that kind of stuff. So I pulled out of it. But in between hand, there was all kinds of controversy about...

whether or not Dave Chappelle could introduce me at this thing and I don't know. So, um, I sent him a note and to say, I'm sorry, I can't be there. I didn't want to ruin it for you. And he said, he calls me and says, the, you know, Ted, the hard part of thankless jobs is nobody. Thanks. You.

That's a solid. That's very, very good. That's a surprisingly good. Don't you think, David? And that's a good. Lauren has a we call him Lauren isms. There's that's we'll add that to the bunch. He's quite a character. The worst part of thankless jobs. Yes. No one thinks the minute the minute you're you are huge. You feel yourself being less huge.

in show business. Don't underestimate water. I think that was always my favorite. Don't underestimate the value of water as he's pouring a giant thing. I think I got, I think he said it to mine too. And he always, always drinking a lot of water.

everything out of his mouth is, you know, what he is, is that type of person. He's that type of person that takes a really big idea and distills it down, which is a sign of intelligence. I think to the guest, kind of, you think going to the show and then staying at the party after till and for 50 years, right?

fuck i can't do that another gigantic highlight for me with the show was 25 years ago me and that same group of buddies that you guys had met we went to aspen for the comedy festival hbo comedy and you guys did the 25 year of snl oh wow that was the it was which felt like an snl convention there was so many people yeah and that's the first time i ever met farley um first time i met sandler

wow wow that was that was what the original cast all the way up to will ferrell's cast were up yeah like the bleacher is that where i did burt lancaster and kirk douglas yes okay yeah you killed him then yes yes sorry that was a funny i can't imagine what it's like to try to get a line in on that stage oh i don't think we talked far by the way farley had a rough go with it on that was only it was it was oxygen problems i think norm needed oxygen and uh

It was a tough. Remember that awkward moment? Remember, David, the moment where Mike, it's a lead discussion and he goes, it's like being shot. I always said it. He said, I said it. SNL is like being shot out of a cannon. That was the analogy. And then, of course, Norm and Norm's brilliant. So,

Yeah, I don't know. You have to be shot out of a can to know the difference. I don't know. I don't know if it's exactly like being shot out of a can, more like people pretending to be other people or something like that. You know, and Mike turned red. Very Norm. We miss him. You know, I miss Norm. No one else in my life. You know, most people go through their whole life trying not to look crazy. And when Norm got sick,

He went out of his way to make you think he was crazy instead of sick. Yeah. I got mad at him. I look at my old texts. I'm like, I was going, Norm, you can't say you're coming to dinner and then just flake out. And he's like, David, there's COVID. I go, we've gone over. I'm sitting 20 feet away from you in my house. It's you. We already agreed. It's fine. Then he goes, it's an epidemic. And then a week later, when are we having dinner?

I go, why are you keeping this? Your episode with Norm on his old Netflix special, his Netflix show, it's an act of jazz. It's not even a conversation. I fucking, I don't know if I told you that. I've never seen it, but I heard, that whole year I heard about that. And I was like, what did we do on that show that was so funny? I think you were there. And I think- You kept asking, is this a test show? Is it-

Yeah, because I was such a crummy piece of shit. The crew was like walking in front of you guys with cranes and stuff, right? This thing goes by beep, beep, beep in front of the camera. I'm like, are we in a construction site? Anyway, Ted, let's let Ted go. He's got to get the reshoots. Thank you for coming on, Ted. Thank you. We appreciate it. I'm a fan of both of you. Love you both. Love you both. See you soon, hopefully. Miss you, bud. Thank you. Take care.

This has been a presentation of Odyssey. Please follow, subscribe, leave a like, a review, all this stuff, smash that button, whatever it is, wherever you get your podcasts. Fly on the Wall is executive produced by Dana Carvey and David Spade, Jenna Weiss-Berman of Odyssey, Charlie Finan of Brillstein Entertainment, and Heather Santoro. The show's lead producer is Greg Holtzman.