Jim Downey
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Coming up next, former head writer of Saturday Night Live, Jim Downey. Yes, I have actually stayed at Airbnbs from time to time. And truth be told, I do really like them. I'm being totally honest right now that I've had great experiences with them. Yeah, I mean, you can have your, look at, you go get your own place, you get your own pool, you get your own living room. You're not going to walk in an elevator. You're not going to see people when you're walking around in your undergarments. Yeah.

Yes. And if you don't understand what we're talking about, you should go online. What we're saying is you have a house with a kitchen and a bathroom and it's just for you tailored for you. You liked your Airbnb over a hotel. Yes. And I do think I've had relatives stay nearby and sometimes it's very nice for them to do an Airbnb and have a little house and they're not underfoot. The last thing he wanted is your house guests to say, excuse me, um,

Where would I find a towel? That's a toughie when it's- Because they're naked? Well, it's like the 1800th time you say, on the towel rack. Yeah. Thank you. Oh, I was going to look there. People don't even think hotels sometimes just go, hey, I'll go there, I'll get an Airbnb. So you won't regret it. Okay, before we get to the great Jim Downey, we just, David, who was very close with Norm Macdonald, would like to say a few words about his memorial.

Yeah. Norm, Dana, thank you. We went to a memorial and I'm only bringing this up because Downey's on today and we did an intro for him, but I just want to do, cause I just went to this thing and it was supposed to be more of a celebration. You know, it was kind of a funeral. We never had a funeral for Norm. So it was like a good way to everyone get in the same room. I think it was called a mom normial, but I thought that wasn't too catchy and they shouldn't trademark it.

it's not catchy like Toyota-thon, you know what I mean? So we had, it was supposed to be like a lighthearted interview

but you know, those things do get heavy. Yeah. No matter how, how fun you want it to be. And no matter how much Norm would have wanted it to be light. Um, and so we all gathered. The only interesting thing was, it was, I think they're doing some sort of documentary for Netflix because it was filmed and that's, you know, they wanted me to speak and that's harder when people are filming it, as you know, because it's, it's a serious thing and it's embarrassing. It's hard to speak anyway in front of people. And, uh,

The funny part, you know, so Conan went up, he kind of hosted it. The audience was peppered with like, you know, SNL people, writers, comedians, David Tell, Bill Murray from SNL, Sandler, Conan. I mean, any Smigel, all these people are everywhere. So a little intimidating, but all friends. And Dana, I don't know if I told you this, so-

Conan speaks. He brings up Laurie Jo, who's Norm's right-hand man. Been with him forever. She's the greatest. She set the whole thing up. Ted Sarandos had COVID. He couldn't come. And he's the biggest fan of this whole thing. So by the time Downey spoke and he was great. And then I went up to speak and there's stairs going up there and Conan goes to shake my hand. I wipe out.

In front of everyone. On my face. I don't even do any jokes. I don't go, not funny, Norm. You know, I didn't say anything. I just said, got up, went to the stage, did my little speech, four minutes, got off. And then a couple of people, Molly Shannon, a lot of people spoke, Nealon. And then we went, we were sequestered to another room.

another whole building where six of us watched his special. That was the interesting part. He did a special. What was it? How did, how did his special happen? Norm? So, you know how I used to do those nonologues during Corona where I'd sit at my desk. It was like that. He was, had a microphone in his hand and Laurie Jo was filming him. And he just said, you know, I keep trying to do my special, but he was getting weaker, which we didn't know. And they kept shutting down theaters and they wouldn't let him go.

And then he goes, I'm just going to run it once, just kind of say it out loud. And then he never got to shoot it. So they said, let's use that and kind of make a documentary. So six of us watched it.

So he's just in his room with Laurie Jo with a mic going. No audience, no nothing. Even speaking at the funeral memorial, it's very hard when there's like a dolly shot, you know, when you're talking and it's like, push in, he might cry. No, no, I'm not crying at this part. Okay, pull back, pull back. It's definitely something, you know, they filmed the comedy store with Bob Saget. I thought that was just odd because I think people at home don't know when you make fun of someone,

At something like that, as a comedian, they probably think it's very mean, but it's all of us just lightheartedly making fun of Norm, also saying something sad, you know, whatever. So here we are watching the special, Dana, and very interesting. It's about almost an hour. He's got classic Norm stuff. Some is very rough, you know, where people would be offended, which is good. And some stuff just really kills him.

and some stuff he meanders but you know he hasn't had a chance to polish it or anything it's just hey i'm gonna run through it so it's not really we were discussing that would this work in a crowd yes but norm has his for what he does it was perfect they're they're gonna really like it and we talked about it discuss about mostly everything was just positive of course and uh

And excited to be a witness to that. Did you ever get like a wave of just the surrealness of it or a wave of like sort of, it's just so strange to see your friend

You know, knowing that he's gone. I definitely cried. Yeah. I definitely cried. I didn't at the memorial, but that one, he starts talking about his mom and you're watching a guy and this is the last time I've seen him because I've seen him before that, but it was right before Corona. So I haven't seen him and he looks a little different, you know, and he's a little gaunt and then you hear him talk and

and he was pretty sharp. I mean, it wasn't like he was smoother than my special. Like he never looked down. I'm like, does he have a set list? What is he looking at? How does he know what's coming up? There was like, no, maybe they edited, tighten it up. But yeah, so definitely we're seeing, and then we talked and then, you know, we had that Adam Sandler taping after that. So, which is coming up soon. So it was a long day. Sandler was in there too. And, uh,

And we, I just thought it was interesting. And I thought people should know we finally got to have something for Norm. We never talked about it ever. I never talked about it. And I'm glad, I'm glad I got to see it, but it was a little bit of a crier at times, you know? I always like to think when someone's gone that they're still here. I kind of hear their voice in my head sometimes.

And I think what they would say about everything, I don't know. I just, I'm in denial about people being gone. And, and, and also in the last two years when I haven't seen him or a lot of people, you just, you just think they're out there. You just don't see them, you know, like you'll run into them. And with Norm, you're, you're just thinking if Norm was alive, he wouldn't want to be here because it's just, it's an odd situation and it's hard to be at those things. And, uh,

But anyway, listen to the, keep listening, guys. We're going to keep talking. Here's our intro to Downey. And then Downey talks a lot about working with Norm. He was very tight with him. Yes, there was a lot of very interesting stuff regards Norm with Mr. Jim Downey. Jim Downey. Jim Downey. James Downey. Yep. My boss, your boss, right? In a sense. Yeah. He was collaborator.

Great writer. He was David's boss. David's contracts would be in seven to 10 day increments. Seven to 10 minutes. I had a 12 year contract. Phil got a three year one. I was shitting. They go, we're going to give you, they give him like two years, 3 million bucks or something. For Phil Hartman.

When he re-upped? When he did his last years. He did his initial five and then he went up? Yeah, because he had power to do it. I think you might have gone, but he stayed. Good Lord. I only kick because David's always self-deprecating about his time on the SNL. What happened was they would call in the summer and say if you got picked up again and you didn't know, so I'd have to lug my fucking mattress out of my apartment.

get out of my apartment cancel it come to LA and stay in my other one I shared with someone and then they'd hire me back and I go fuck just tell me I'm hired so I don't have to stress the fuck out and I have to fly all the way back

And get in a party. It's like I wasted even more money and time. I remember that because at the party, you'd say sometimes to Lorne Michaels, hey, I'll see you Monday at the meeting. Lorne goes, perhaps. And that was chilly. And I'd pull Lorne aside and go, Lorne, come on. I mean, David's really funny. We should just sign him up for at least two weeks. I go, who's the host Monday? He goes, me.

We'll see if you'll know. I go, why? Because you might not need to know. Where should I sit in the Monday meeting room? Should I be up on the couch or should I just go Indian style on the floor? You can decide later. Marcy, would it make room for David? No.

I don't know if we have... Is it Michael Keaton? Who told you that? I go, well, Lorne, I'm on the show. I have to write for him. Do you? I go, well, I work here, right? Do you? Do you? David's going through that thing of like, am I really on the show or not? And he just sort of hangs around the soda machine.

We should have them removed from the premises. Exactly. It was tough out there. So every year I'd get picked up and I never got more than a one-year pickup. So it was tough. So Jim Downey. Jim Downey, great, great, big writer. We didn't say this. Head writer, he did first five years of SNL. Then he went and did the, started Letterman for five years. So-

Two monster shows in their fucking heyday. And then he returns to SNL as the head writer when I arrived. Yeah. And he was head writer for like 11 years. Then he wrote Update with Norm Macdonald, stuff like that. He wrote. He has a great resume. He's like this big presence at SNL that maybe some of you aren't as familiar with. So this will be a little different flavor. We do all kinds. A lot of people go, just go with huge stars. I go, guess what, fans? Yes.

We're going to have some real writers. We're going to have people down in the bowels of 30 Rock. Remember Dennis said he's one of the, he's the second most important person in the history of SNL. He is, there's Lorne and then there's Jim being such a big powerhouse writer and forming the type of writing we're doing. I had to go to, I had to run by stuff.

by him all the time and it's very hard to get his attention because the head writer is pulled in every direction so everyone is trying to get a hold of the head writer to punch up their thing yeah he did all those Letterman bits at the beginning so he's great and he's kind of a recluse and he didn't know how to do zoom so

It's great we got him on to talk. He never Zoomed, never been on a podcast, never listened to a podcast. Yeah, that's true, right? So he broke the seal on three things in our little time with Jim. Yeah. Anyway, so I got another joke. Should I waste it here?

- Okay. - Do you? - No, no, Dana will get mad at this one. This is just a joke. - Okay. - Okay. So here's how you could, here's if a girl's having an orgasm. If they're having a medium one, they say, Heather, back me up on this. They say, "Oh my, oh my, oh my." And if they're having a really good one, they go, "Oh God, oh God, oh God." And if they're not having one, they go, "Oh Dana, oh Dana."

I pulled you into it. I'm the guy. I heard this from reliable sources that when David is getting with a woman and he has an orgasm, he screams his own name. God damn it. David! Who told you that? David!

That's why I do it in this room. It's soundproof. It's funny. You just, when you hear these things, you go, well, how many orgasm verbal jokes do I have in my head? That's the only one I remember. That's the only, I just heard it because someone did it to me. So I had to do it to you. Even though you're a happily married man, I just said, this is funny. I'll do, I'll use Dana. I was, first I laughed. Then I was kind of delighted. Then I was offended. This is all within three tenths of a second. Then I thought, I'll come back with my, yeah, his own name. Yeah. And now we're even.

Well, even Steven. I hate to be named Steven. Even Steven. Oh, that would be the worst. God, what a fucking nightmare name to have. Now we got Downey. So Downey, sorry we went off track there, but that was a fucking real winner. Jim Downey, a very interesting person. You could give him any subject in the world and leave the room. He literally goes to libraries at Yale, goes in and just reads books.

What a nerd. What a nerd. What a genius nerd. Hey, what are you reading? Nerd. I'm reading Agricultural Manifestation, Early Colonial Times. That sounds nerdy. Half the people there are Harvard and Yale and Cambridge. They're all a bunch of nerds. I wanted to ask him. He thought I was stupid when I joined because I went to Scottsdale Community College, but

I think he never answered the question, so I think that's a yes. You didn't know what Manifest Destiny was, and I remember they just, the writers would get in a room, they'd laugh for hours. Hubert Spade didn't know what Manifest Destiny was? Oh, I know. I'd walk around with a thesaurus, mostly for Dennis. All right, so Jim Downey's going to talk, and you're going to listen, so do it. Dana, we're going to put a pin in that story.

Downey, my boss. Robert Downey Jr.'s uncle? Yeah. Yeah, let's just say so. Is that real? We've agreed. All parties have agreed that's the official line, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Um, I'm related to Philip Carvey from, from, uh, East Toronto, but there's no pizzazz to that. No, there's only five Carvey's in North America. You've never met another car. I absolutely have never met another Carvey, but weren't you born in Montana?

Yes. Okay. See, I remember things. I know. And David Spade. People think I'm Canadian. David Spade out of the Phoenix area. Easy. Scott's still easy. Okay. She's what a memory. You know, David Spade.

Dana, Jim, when I got hired, Jim was the head writer of SNL. He's got a million credits we'll get to, but just quickly, when I got hired with Schneider, I think, Jim, you walked us through, you know? You had to walk us and say, here's your legal pad, here's a wooden desk that I thought jokes would come from, but I had to come up with them, and you go, and then you sit at this desk and stare at that white wall, and you sit at that one, and...

We're going to go from there. So, and that was it. Everything I told you was true. Oh, that was true. There was no more than the truth. Yeah. No one went like overboard with what to do there. Well, Jim came over to my office after that and said, I told him. I told him good, like you said. Anyway, that's inside baseball. But Jim and I had a

kind of an inside joke about newcomers. Totally kidding. It was part of the hazing. We all had to go through it except me because I, you know, was started in there. So you were the original hazer at Harvard. Did you ever get pink bellied at Harvard? Pink bellied? No, we, you know, most of the brutal stuff that the caning and the paddling had been phased out. But I always thought it was an insane thing.

practice of just this psychosocial homoerotic hazing that would happen in men's dorms i just thought no no thank you kissing the gunner's daughter it was called

Really? Oh God, I didn't want to know. And that was a blow job. That sounds more illicit than anything you've ever said in your life. No, none of that's true. I was at the ASU. I was at ASU gym, which is a college. It's not Harvard. You had Frank Cush running your- I had Frank Cush knocking people around and I was getting hazed with, they spray painted a number on you and you had to run around at four in the morning and bring everyone a river rock and

and then do shots. And then they put oil and, uh, paprika on me. And when they pushed this button, they spray it on you. You had to say something. They tell you to say, uh,

I was a little bit of a follower at the time, I feel. I wasn't really a leader and I did it. And then I finally had to quit because I go, this isn't getting me as much as I thought it would out of life. It all went up hell. A river rock. Is that, what is that? Well, when you're, this is great. You're listening to the whole story and you pick something you like out of it.

River rocks are, there's rivers in Arizona that are by Arizona state and they don't ever have any water in them. So it's mostly rocks. And at the bottom, there's little smooth rocks from the flooding and rivers and what we have. So you just have to climb down the river, grab them and then carry them in a bucket. They're super heavy. And the idea is it's a fucking drag. I think that's the idea.

See, I thought here, I thought River Rock had to be code for something filthy or- Illicit. Or for code. Because that's the way your mind thinks. That's the end, sadly. I'm sorry. The creative mind. Now I feel, I owe the entire state of Arizona an apology for that, and especially Arizona State University and the Sun Devils. Yeah.

Yeah, I love Arizona Station. Should we go a little bit? I don't know how much... We can't cover the life of Jim Downey, but we can say he was a very, very young man out of Harvard and was hired to write on Saturday Night Live with the original cast. That's right. Yeah, that's fair, right? That's known more than the truth. Bill Murray and I were hired the same week, so we were put in an office together and

Stayed there for... Jesus. Yeah. How cool. What was your thoughts? Do you remember like, okay, to me, Bill Murray was always so intimidating. I really like him, but he just kind of scared me. Was he always like an intimidating figure because of his confidence or something, right? And would he know you if he saw you today? Yeah.

Would he remember that old roommate? I'm sure he would know me. I'm sure. Oh, no, they're very good friends. I know. They're very, very good. I just want to bust his balls. Actually, I know what you're saying. In terms of comedy, he is not...

you know he can be a little intimidating you know there's some people who instantly they want to sort of join in uh and it's sort of the invitations always there to hey let's let's you know goof around and billy is is not he's more like in life he's super friendly person you know he's a guy who yeah you walk down the street with him and and

and he'll talk to everyone except like celebrity you know paparazzi or stalkers he's something he has a really good sense of when someone's just a real person and someone's a pro you know yeah

I mean, I had a front row seat on the 40th anniversary. I was waiting to do Chopped Broccoli at the piano. It was that medley. And I'm just sitting there. And then Bill comes out and he does a song on this. And it practically sold the show. His commitment was so extreme. I told him afterwards, it really was making me laugh. You know, there's a story behind that is the oldest piece I've ever been involved with.

From from conception to actual production that goes back to the fall, like to like 1977, that Billy Billy would sing a fragment. He would sing the fragment like Jaws. Get away from me, Jaws. That thing. And I was always obsessed with with getting that on the show. And so when the.

40th anniversary thing came up i i i said look i want to complete that that song i want to write the you know make it a song and so i i came up with the part about you know um the um

And now, Jaws, you found someone new. Tell me, Jaws, you know, what am I supposed to do? Am I not enough for you? And then so we we added that. And Paul Schaefer came up with the tagline, you bastard, Jaws, as the final thing. And then we and so I was so obsessed with getting that on. I'd never like.

push something harder. And Billy was sort of, okay, whatever, if you think, cause it never, we'd never done anything with it ever in all those years. But every few years I would, I would bring it up and say, God, that's, that should be, that should appear somewhere. And then when the time came to do the anniversary, I had already sort of, um, I was singing the song and pitching it to, uh, Maya Rudolph and, um,

I guess Amy Poehler was in on it. Probably, yeah. And Emily Spivey, who was a great writer of a younger generation who worked on that whole sequence. But Billy was doing the Pebble Beach Pro-Am golf tournament, and he would not... That thing ended...

Well, that's the night before. So he would not hear of leaving early. He not only had to stay for his part, but he he absolutely refused to duck out of it before it was officially over. So I think our thing was a Sunday night, right? It had to be right. Yeah, that's when they do that very minimal rehearsal. So the tournament ended like some kind of ceremony Saturday evening. Mm.

And so that was the earliest he would consider leaving. So we had to get a private jet form. But he he made it. He slept. He arrived in the hotel. I saw a day or which David Spade paid for. I was really knocked out. And then and then Billy, like, slept for an hour in his hotel room. And then we got him to NBC, did the one and only rehearsal with Paul Schaefer up, believe it or not, in our old office upstairs. It just happened to be. And then

with Emily Spivey was there. And then and then we went down. And then, by the way, I happened to wander through and check cue cards because I just, you know, by habit and someone had changed, had taken out you bastard.

Oh, and and yes, and not not because it's dirty, but because it's offensive to people whose parents didn't bother to get married. She's really so. And I was like, no one had run that by me. And they also wouldn't let him say, got you goddamn jaws.

because that supposedly is offensive to believe in Christians. And so I just said, you know what? I will take this on myself. It'll be my responsibility. So I just changed it back.

And said, if they have a problem with it, they can sue me. No one's going to complain. You will not get one call. And they did not get any calls. Who has the balls to paint over that Picasso? You and Bill Murray writing something and you're like, let me take a swing at this. This is they punch it. I ran into Emily after the fact. And I said, Emily, what the hell was that? Were they? Oh, yeah. They just told me we couldn't do that.

And I said, no, no, no, you don't. No, no, no, no. You know, it's afterwards, then they kind of seem to let it go. Because when I was doing the Italian waiter sketch with Victoria Jackson. Yes, yes, yeah. I love it, love it. I put her on a table and Vicky's so funny and like. She is the most game person ever. And so she is for this. And then.

Yeah. And then she puts her legs over and I'm just talking and kind of moving. And that was the dress show. It killed. Then the air show kind of pretending to get me, it to me was either Schneider or Steve Korn or Robert Smigel kind of going, hey, don't, I didn't remember if they...

I kind of chose to ignore them. Yeah. And then I did it anyway, but then choosing to kill. That's your book. Choose to kill. Yeah. You're never, it's always going to be on the performer. I know that that kind of note was just there for like legal reasons of the equivalent to seven. And we told him, I gave him the note, but,

But in fact, something that funny, they're not going to complain about. Of course. People who watch the show want that. You know, Jim, one time I think you were there. You were there my whole run, I'm pretty sure. Probably, yeah. By the way, just as an insert, you were the head writer for 11 years? 86 to 97? And then let's get back to David Storrs. Technically. 30 years. Yeah, like, well, 85, 100.

I hate to say that was not one of our better seasons, but 85 until through 95. Yeah. Okay. So David, what would you, I was there. So I was saying in that, in that train of thought, when I did an update with Dennis and he says, uh, I was doing it in an outlist what's in and what's out. And I sent one of them was, uh,

Not enunciating so you can get stuff on the air and going out and get some pussy. And...

And then Andrew Brewer comes back. I see him in the hallway. He goes, no, no. And I go, he did good. And he goes, I didn't say he didn't do good. And he goes, you have to fix it. And he goes, we're in the hallway behind the quick change by the page desk. And he goes, I go, come on, don't take this away. I got nothing. He goes, you can say hussy, but you can't say pussy. And I go, God damn it. So I go up there and then I go up.

I'm scared because it's coming up in the bit that's making me so nervous and I go go out and have the show and get some pussy and it killed and Dennis goes you're dead dude right when it went to commercial he goes you're fired because it killed too hard

And then he's over. It is over. It's a matter of will. And then, you know, you will to victory. And then when you have victory, they can't touch you. Yeah, if it bombs, then there's a bigger problem. If it bombs. But fortunately, we're not talking about that here. We don't talk about bombing. But I never heard Boo about the supposed...

Jim, did we have the first censorship guy? Was he like Mr. Clockworthy? Did I imagine that with a bow tie? The very first guy who was great was a guy named Jay Otley, who had been literally a former male model. And he was like super. He looked like those guys in the 60s, like cigarette ads. He was just an extremely handsome man, very distinguished middle-aged guy.

And nothing bothered him at all. He was a censorship guy? He was just kind of- It didn't seem like you had one that first couple years. I mean, I don't remember being told there was anything that we couldn't do

And Jay Otley was, oh, he was magnificent. I mean, everything would, he would just kind of, no, that's fine. Don't worry about it. Really? What was he there when I was there? He's reporting to no one. He wasn't, he wasn't, he was the first, he was, he was like a super, he was an out, out gay man. He was just incredibly, just a super cool guys. Like just, yeah.

You know, he you know, like he's straight. He's like a Fred Astaire type, you know, just super elegant, but had seen everything. Nothing bothered him. And then he was replaced by Bill Clotworthy. I remember that name. And Bill had a little bow tie and he was very stern. Bill was a little a little, you know, that we had rougher sledding with with Mr. Clotworthy, but he

was a decent guy. I mean, you could, you could, he would hear your arguments. And then, well, Roz Wyman, she was head of standards. I remember having him or her. Yeah. And, and I remember Dana, you remember this piece that I wrote with, with Tom and Tom Davis. There was the pussy whip talk show. Oh yeah. And he wouldn't let us. Yeah. We wouldn't, he wouldn't let us say,

It was supposed to be pussy whipped. We had to end up with pee whipped. And I remember. And again, it was not because of the word pussy like David to, you know. Yeah. Pussy was fine. It was the concept of pussy whipped was offensive. I remember Roz Wyman saying to me as a woman.

I find this entirely offensive. And that's when I figured out just like bastard wasn't about bastard being a dirty word. It was by that time it was a PC thing, you know, by the time we're talking about the 40th anniversary. But as far as as far as pussy whipped, it was it was an it was a.

you know, insulting to women, womankind, which I didn't really, I think all women understand the concept of being pussy whip. I don't, I don't think that was, you know, Clockworthy wouldn't let me say when I first did church lady, she had a couple of penises in there. You're a penis that kind of like sexually. He said, no. So I, I put in more stuff. I,

cut penis and I put in throbbing, engorged, bulbous, bulbous, and he got, and Clockworthy was like, well, this is terrific. Throbbing meat myself. Throbbing Satan stick, bulbous and engorged. He goes, I love this. Just don't say penis. Wow. It's even dirtier in a weird way. Much dirtier. Much more pornographic.

But I also thought you were going for the oldest trick of the book, which even the NBC standards department figured out after a while, which was you loaded up-

with cannon fodder that you can trade away. Oh, you get rid of stuff. I did do that. You write stuff that you don't even want, but it's there just so you have something to... Yeah. And then you kind of act like, you go, come on! It's like sailors bringing trinkets to trade with the natives, you know?

And anyway, you'll get this slinky for this 18 acres of land. It's like politicians. The bill's going to cost 700 trillion. Yes. And then you go, well, could it be 20 trillion? Well, OK. Look what I gave up. Busted my balls. But yeah. Which president was that, Dana? That's the only president that wasn't in a. I was actually trying to do. I only do Bernie Sanders as a cross guard. OK. Don't proceed.

Don't proceed The system is rigged Don't proceed But I was trying to think of Bernie like that Six trillion dollars I'll give you three trillion back What the fuck is going on Anyway Oh wait by the way when you worked with Billy Murray You didn't have to pee in a bottle in your dressing room Like some people at the show did you

I don't recall doing that just for fun, I think. Yeah. One of our cast members did during my years. In a bottle? Yeah. And just left a bunch of bottles in his room. Oh, it must have been Mr. Christopher Farley. No, it actually wasn't Farley. Oh, it wasn't Farley.

No, he was... He would only shit out the window for fun. He did wipe his butt with a USA Today once when we were... I guess it was right before read-through. We love Chris. He's the greatest. And he doesn't even take his pants off. You know, Downey, he was... I know you loved him. He had...

When he found Belushi's pants and wardrobe, you know, the wardrobe was so extensive there. And they would give him pants. And for his size, they would dig back and he would just look in and he would see in there written Belushi. Oh, that's right. Oh, my God. These are fucking Belushi's. And then he'd put them on. And then even if they gave him different pants, he would put them under his pants. No kidding. Because it was like good luck. Yeah. He was so obsessed. Yeah. He loved Belushi. Yeah.

obsessed with him. The experience of giving John Belushi notes was always... Okay, now I'm on the train. Tell us. There we go. That's what we want to hear. We would go in in like a team

you know, and Frank and, you know, Frank is famously impervious to manners and sensitivity and everything. And so he, he was always good, like shock troops, you know, to like, he was the bombing.

that happened before we came up with the troop carriers. And so then I was usually the first wave in, you know, dancing through the minefields. And he'd be in Belushi, be sitting there staring, you know, sort of solemnly in his dressing room. And I'd go like a knock, you know, hey, John. Yeah, on this thing.

You know, I mean, it's great. It's great. And they had instantly start in that. And it was it was experience. I had I had a friend of mine who who visited the show one time and Belushi and Danny had done the Blues Brothers as a warm up, which was

That's how it began. They warmed up the audiences and then they just decided we're going to do this big time. And anyway, he was... And at that time, that was all the blues she really cared about, it seemed. And so he lived for nothing more than compliments about the Blues Brothers. And so my friend who was... He was incapable...

of not being completely honest, however insane it was in a situation. So we were, he was sitting with me at the party. He was a friend from high school. And, um, and, and, and, and I said, Hey, John, uh, the blues brother is awesome. That was awesome. Once he goes, Hey, thanks, man. And my friend just goes, you need to time your heart. You need to time your singing better with acroids, uh,

harmonica. Oh, boy. The plus one. He literally goes, what did you say? I said, I said, you need to time your singing better with as though he hadn't heard it, you know, with Ackroyd's heart playing. And so he goes,

There was nothing wrong with the timing of my singing with Ackroyd. Oh, yeah, there was. Yeah, there was. Wow. Who are you bringing? That's ballsy for anybody. He just didn't understand. He was like, he was unsocialized. He was like, musically, if you want to get it perfect, he's like, it's working. I wouldn't worry about it.

By the way, one of us is tapping the desk, Dana. Is that you? I'm sorry, that was me. That was me. Okay. We'll keep an eye on that. It's all right. We can start over. I would have just said to him, Lou, I love everything about that bit. The whole singing the blues part, I'm not at key. Take it away from the blues. Don't sing, but just talk about... Sorry, go ahead. But one of the reasons...

Belushi and I got along much better, probably better with Belushi than any of the other writers because he was from Wheaton, Illinois. And I had cousins who Belushi knew who lived in Wheaton. And that was essentially it. So it was like I was like his cuz. So he would.

He would talk to me. And of course, you know, all of the writers got on great with Dan Aykroyd. So, but he, he was not nice to the women at the show. I have to say. And, um, John, Danny was great with everybody. Danny's a sweetheart. But what, what would, would,

Did Belushi ever throw furniture or anything? Because he was so powerful on screen. He was such a potent character. Did he ever do stuff backstage? I mean, you just think of him as a badass pirate, barely under control, but I never met him. There's always this menace below the surface, but I never saw him. I never saw both Danny and Billy...

you know, were more, I saw, you know, get more physical, but John, I don't ever remember he just, but he would have this way of sort of glowering. And, um, but like I say, you know, he, when he, there's certain moments that were so Belushi that, uh, him, did you guys see ever see the, um, him doing Mussolini at the, uh,

it was the show we did from new orleans where very little in that show actually worked but all the belushi stuff did he was doing we had one of those balconies you know there's in the french quarter yeah that would make sense lorraine said lorraine newman said it was a show down there it was crazy it was it was fun to do it and it was you know we i ate a lot of great restaurants and and it was fun i'd never been to new orleans before but the show itself

was we couldn't communicate with each other. We were doing it at different locations all over the city. But Belushi did this this Mussolini thing where it was just pure Belushi and it was brilliant. And with it, with like a real like crowd below and he just had all the moves down. And he also did Michael O'Donoghue wrote this this thing, the winner of the

Hit Al Hurt in the mouth of the brick contest. And I don't know if you guys are... The trumpet player? The trumpet player, Al Hurt. See, this is something you've got to be at minimum my age to know the actual reference. But Al Hurt was a famous New Orleans trumpet player. And one time somebody threw a brick at him and hit him. So it's just Belushi...

playing trumpet like very nervously, like watching for the bricks coming. I can't explain it. I love it. I invite you guys to check it out. It was in that show. Yeah. Yeah. Um, Belushi would just commit like crazy. Was he doing drugs during shows or you just catch it? Was it more of an after? No, no. After party situation. I don't remember that ever interfering with it. It was more when John was difficult, it was more, um,

it was more just attitudinal things that i mean he did sort of he did when he got into music he i think he the show ceased to be his absolute top priority yeah i remember because sometimes drugs make people moody in quotes

And sometimes with Farley, I go, I think you're being moody right now. And I wish we could find where that's coming from. I wish we could trace it back to something. But I remember that I could imagine that John, by the way, I don't care if John did drugs during the show. I mean, the shows are funny and they stand up.

as like, you know, my whole childhood is based on it. It's the fucking greatest. So I don't give a shit. But if people can do their job, I think drunk is harder to deal with when people are, you deal with people that try to perform. Drunk makes you slurrier and slower on. You're not nailing shit. Yeah, I did Robert Downey Jr. Not, wait a minute. Who was the guy who was the incendiary talk show Sanute Jersey? Morton Downey. Morton Downey, sorry. Morton Downey.

Morton Downey Jr. was coming on Church Chat. He is in no way related. Okay, go on. No way related. And I think he's gone to the stars, but he was really in the tank. I mean, it was... Oh, that's right. I forgot that he was on the show. Yeah, he came on Church Chat. He was like a Jerry Springer for the audience. He was like one of the first like really incendiary fucking hosts that got everyone riled up. But drunk and...

sketch comedy that's tough I mean that's yeah I mean I'm not saying they're yeah well you guys would know better than I but I would think that it would be impossible if you're alone in front of an audience to be drunk

You'd have to have a very weird kind of act to me. No, I've definitely, I've had a few cordials before I go on stage sometime. Really? Jim, it's just the pressures of life. I know, I mean. So, you get it. So, I go on there. I saw the documentary. Have you not? On me? Yeah.

You have a lot of heartache to swallow. The dark side of buh-bye. Did you see that? That's the one. That's the one. So I'd have a few knocks, as my dad would say. But sometimes you're off your game a little bit. You're right. There's a fine line between, hey, I'm feeling good. And then like, fuck, what joke is that? I don't even remember in the middle of a joke. I don't know what's going on. So.

I'm a nibbler, Dana. And I think you are too, but you always know me that I just have to keep the energy going. And I think because I learned from my dad, pistachios are a good source of just, you know, nibble, wake you up.

They're always delicious. I actually named a character in a movie I did called Master of Disguise. The lead character's name is Pistachio. That's how much I love pistachios. Yeah. Well, wonderful pistachios have literally come out of their shells. It's the same taste. It's delicious, but...

It's a lot less work. As you know, cracking them open can be a little bit of a job. Less cracking, more snacking is what I say. That's what I say. That's what you say. And I'm going to use that when my wife goes to the store. Wonderful pistachios. No shells. Flavors come in a variety of award-winning flavors, including chili roasted. Honey roasted. Mm-hmm.

Salt, sea salt, vinegar, smoky barbecue. Sea salt and pepper is one I like the most. And I'm going to try this jalapeno lime. They don't have a red, red necky flavor just yet. Yeah. Red, red necky loves pistachios. I like to crack things open and put them in my mouth.

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We all love Norm and this OJ situation on Update that people have asked me, was Norm leaving? Was it a direct result? Because you were, I think you were writing for Update with him, right? He was kind of a producer and co-writer with Norm. Yeah, you guys were like locked in a room doing it. That was all you guys. Yeah, Norm on Update was...

my one of my successful projects at the show was one that i it was entirely my he was my candidate um in a very crowded field because the network had determined that kevin they were not going to give kevin another chance i personally thought kevin yeah kevin nealon had been doing update from the time dennis left and um

I personally, you know, Neil Nisi Bonham about, you know, the dead. But the herb sergeant was not doing Kevin any favors the way he was running update. And and it was hard to sort of to get to get help to Kevin because.

You know, it had to go through her, had to go through herb and herb was sort of like ran interference and wouldn't know through it. Anyway, so he didn't love my update pieces either. And so I felt like the second week I met Norm that he would be

a perfect guy if Kevin left the show or anything. And so when when the network announced, you know, it was all my ego. No, no, no. Nealon's out. He's dead. He's gone. Forget about it. Not happening. So that started this thing where there were several different candidates. But Norm was my guy and it sort of he wasn't initially the favorite, but he sort of survived.

And and so as far as the O.J. stuff is is is concerned that if you remember the murders by persons as yet unknown happened in June of 1994, which is when we were having this meeting out in L.A., which, by the way, ended. It was I was summoned out for the first time to have a a notes meeting.

with as, you know, head writer slash producer of the show. And Lauren and I were out there at the NBC headquarters and it was Don Allmire and Rick Ludwin and Warren Littlefield. I think Bernie Brillstein was in the meeting. I'm pretty sure. And so they were an allmire. They were very unhappy with the show because the ratings had dropped

And I thought it was we were on like a sugar high the year before that in 92, 93 from the Wayne's World movie, you know, that that's how we had the political political. And we had the debates and stuff. And so the ratings dropped. I'll be I'll be it to a rating number that they would they would die for. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But but anyway, so they were they were giving us their notes on what they didn't like and everything.

And I had gone there. My marriage was falling apart because of the time at the show and stuff. And so I kind of I was sort of feeling like, I don't know if I want to keep doing this. So my attitude was, I'm

I'm not going to do anything to save my job. I'm not going to beg or plead or agree to any take. You know, I'm going to just tell them what I think. And and if they don't like it, it's just as six and one to me if I get fired or not.

And in the end, that sort of backfired because I heard later, like, Ohmeyer was impressed by your moxie. He didn't, which is not the intention. But anyway, so they were talking about update and they just said, and Kevin had to go. I would never have put...

I would I love Kevin. You still love him. He's one of our he was a great favorite with the writers. Yeah. And I just haven't. I could have. I thought if they had been willing to keep Kevin, but get rid of Herb, I think that we could have turned that thing around. But but anyway, that was not that was not the option available. So anyway, but the meeting, the meeting ended.

Only because visiting hours were starting at LA County and, and Oh Meyer had to go visit OJ. Wow. That's why that meeting ended finally, mercifully. And so then when the fall came, there's a whole other story with how Norm came to be the guy, but, but Norm is doing update. And I told him at the beginning, I said, look, I don't mean anything, not nothing about her, but attempts have been made in the past to,

to to help people doing update and that her blocked all efforts to because he was threatened and territorial everything. And so I told Norm, like, look, we're not we're not going to fuck around. We're not going to let her do to you what he did to Kevin. And so you can have your her meeting, but you got to have a later one with me because we're not I'm not fucking around this time. It's too important.

And the North, yeah, yeah, that sounds great. You know, so what happened is we first of all opened the piece up for the first time to lots and lots of writers. So you suddenly got a lot more writers contributing. And then we would just overrule decisions that Herb made until, and Herb never, I never even had a conversation with Herb about it. And we just, and so, but the basically, so to answer your original question,

the way Norm came to be fired was we just did the OJ jokes because they were funny. It wasn't, none of us had a hard on for OJ or anything, but, but it was, he was in the news every fucking day too. Like there's, you can't, you can't avoid it. Yeah. And so luckily the timing couldn't have been better. You know, the trial opened just before we went on the air. We, and then the very next year, the fall of 95, we,

The are the openings the week of the first show, the verdict came back. And so but anyway, he just every week I would hear occasionally from Lauren and I knew it was Ohmeyer calling him to complain. But it was Lauren would go like, how is it that you and Norm seem to be the only people absolutely convinced of OJ's guilt? And I would go like, Lauren, Lauren, come on, come on.

I think it's I think it's hurting us with black audience. And I said, first of all, we have a very small second. Second, I think I think it only help us because, you know, black people know that that O.J. did it. Come on. And so and so anyway, finally, we did the first season of Update, which was ninety four ninety five. That was the trial. The second season was

a 95 96 of Norm's update that was the aftermath of the trial and the civil trial right and then we threw it we threw in the 96 97 the third season just for for shits and grins you know we continue to do so we did I'm sure we did an OJ joke at least one OJ joke every every show yeah for

from '94, '95 and '96. And then finally the fall of '97,

you know that was norm's fourth season and the season we were fired fall 97 package deal there was nothing to do there was nothing to do about it it would have felt like you feel it's always well no no that part we learned that no we liked the overkill we always said of course i heard this quote much later but i wish i'd known it joseph stalin

someone I comedy people don't normally quote, but Joseph Stalin said, quantity has a quality all its own. That was like David Hasselhoff jokes too. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Well, we love, let me just finish. So we opened that season, the fall 97, right? Spring 98. We didn't do any OJ jokes. We didn't do any OJ jokes for the first eight shows. Wow.

And then the Christmas, it was a strong stretch of like, it was like the bombardment has stopped. And then suddenly I think they stopped.

They have stopped. You know, it's it's peace in the valley. And then on the eighth show, we did two O.J. jokes because there was the one thing about the trail Sprewell. Remember, he was playing for the Knicks and he went nuts in a practice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we did a joke about Johnny and he hired Johnny Cochran as his attorney.

And so we did a joke about it. Cochran has vowed to find the real choker. And then there was OJ. If you remember this one, OJ was in a restaurant in Brentwood and his presence was bothering some of the other patrons. So the manager of the restaurant said, Mr. Simpson, some of our customers have their concern. And we were wondering if you wouldn't mind leaving. And so OJ sued the restaurant. But

but got something like 300 bucks, like a free dinner or something. So, so we did, our joke was in addition, the restaurant must now set up a individual or separate murderer and non-murderer. I know. So, so OJ. So anyway, I'm, I'm at, so we did that. That was the Saturday show. A couple of days later, I'm in new Canaan visiting my little son. And the first thing I see is,

The sound was off on the TV and he's sitting in his high chair and he was like, you know, two years old, I guess. And so he looks up at the thing and there's there's Chris Farley. But with the sound off, I didn't know exactly what it was. He starts laughing hysterically just at the sight of Chris Farley. And then the phone rings and it's Mike Shoemaker from the show is a producer at the show. And he says a couple of things. Chris Farley's dead and you and Norm were fired.

Wow. Yeah. And so apparently and later not. And guess what? It was like three years later, Norm told me.

and he had never said this to me because if it were positions were reversed i would have said it right away he said you know they um they told me like it wasn't you know that they were only firing you that i was welcome to stay and i said i won't i won't do it without downey and so they said okay you know be our guest so that's how norm came to be fired he he went out of solidarity with me

so i think it's probably smart because you made it you guys together were really good it probably would have he would have been he would have been he's great but you know um you're great right did norm ever bring a joke to you or an idea to do that even you thought maybe went too far because he he did norm really norm yeah yeah there's there's actually because he really would push the envelope you know there was once he was norm

even with me like i'd occasionally and you guys knew yeah i know you were telling me in hollywood minute you'd say i dare you to do that i'm like i can't i don't want to i got scared but you're like you're such a pussy i'm like god damn that hollywood but but when when you were dealing with norm he would he would occasionally like he would be in his canadian geezer

mode and you couldn't get him out of it. He would just have to ride it out. You just have to go, OK, he's going to be doing like that. I'm sorry, I don't quite. All right. I hear you, but I don't understand you, you know, and that kind of thing. And so he would. And so you have to go, OK, Norm, when you're ready to talk as Norm Macdonald, I'm here, you know, and anyway, so.

Sometimes he would come in with things where he was clearly joking and I would never take the bait. But one time he had this joke, which there's not a lot of jokes that offend me. You know, they certainly don't offend me in the conventional ways, but they often offend me. It's just I think they're just terrible jokes. But this one kind of did in a way in that sense. But he had this joke where.

It was, well, Woody Allen is dating again. And it was the image of the naked Vietnamese girl running down the road after the napalm attack. That old photo, that old famous old photo. And so my only reaction to that was like,

No, come on. He goes, no, no, come on. It's funny. It's funny. No, no, no, it's no, no. And to this day, I don't know. And, and I could norm, please. We know if you do that joke. And from an audience, you're going to take down.

The rest of the show. The next three shows will be her. Rockefeller Center. You cannot do that. You can't. I mean, it'll take the temperature in the studio down 30 degrees. There'll be like ice on people's, you know, beards and stuff. You can't do that. Rioting. No, no, come on. It's funny. So,

They he and Frank and Frank was backing him on the Frank Sebastiano, the best update writer ever. And he how he loves it. And so and so Frank was I couldn't I would look over at Frank and Frank was not he wasn't like winking or anything. And so I go, OK, so we tried it and dress.

And it had precisely the effect. I thought it would, although who knows about future shows, but anyway, it was like this, like this collective giant gasp. And then, so after that norm was willing to give it up and then we didn't do it on air, obviously, but like years later. So that was like, I'm going to say that was maybe 1996. So at least 10 years later,

Steve Higgins, you know, his current producer of the show comes up to me and says, do you ever remember? And we're looking for a sound effect of an audience being like horrified, offended. And I got I got it. I got it. So I said, like, I directed them to that update. And I said, just I'm pretty sure.

If you take that thing, the other thing is it will be uncorrupted by any laughter. So you'll get a nice, clean take of gasping and horror. And so they I didn't remember which show was from. So they had to like plow through a lot of dress rehearsals, I guess. But a few hours later, Higgins said, oh, my God.

we got it and it is everything you said so they use it and i'm to this day i'm pretty sure they have it like on a cart so whenever they need the sound effect of something not just not getting a response but getting kind of active hate you know yeah it was that moment yeah yeah he's he's got some in real life even his act you know he's we do stand up on the road and

You know, you're always telling rougher stuff to each other, but he was way ballsier than someone like me as far as I do stuff that kind of rubs people wrong sometimes. But his could really like he would. But I always appreciated that. I know what you're talking about, Dave, and I know the stuff of yours that you're referring to, but I always loved it.

Yeah, well, you were great. I would have done it. You just didn't have the balls. I did not. But when we would do the show, Dana, I think you'll know because you can ask about the Bush stuff. But when we would do any sketch...

I don't think performers in general, you're saying about Belushi, love notes. And if you think you're any good, which I think we all think we're pretty good on the show, at least at some level, insecure, but we think we have something. It's hard to take notes from people. But at SNL, it wasn't hard because when I got to a rewrite table and I was going to get the help of everyone...

you couldn't look around there and it was like the dirty dozen of great people going, I'm going to get a free joke from Conan. I'm going to get one from Downey. I'm going to get one from Schneider who does good jokes. I get a Jack Handiel throw one in, Smigel. So it's unreal. So, and Downey was the king of that. So if you can get Downey's attention for a few minutes at three in the morning, then you're going to get, it's going to be better no matter what. That goes back to Downey being a head writer for,

And having everyone wanting to get his ear to get that line or get that approval or get a different take on what you're doing. Take, yeah, angle. And that's exhausting, right, Jim? Just a little knock-on.

Not that I listen for any help I may have given you guys. I'm I love hearing that. We're going to get into how much my heart. But but I I realized I was much happier my first four years at the show. And when I returned to the show after my second firing, I returned to the show in 2000. And at that point, when I came back, I said, OK, here's the deal.

I'm going to be just a regular sketch writer. I am not going to be responsible. I'm not going to be the reason someone's piece got on or didn't get on.

I'm not going to be if someone comes to me as a friend, one to one, one on one, just do you have any thoughts on this? I'm happy to, but I'm not going to consider it my job and I'm going to stay completely out of all office politics and right from home, which is important. So I don't have to stay up all night. And I got to say, I was much happier during my first four years at the show and my last

whatever that was, 2000 to 2012, like another 12 years. But that middle section where I knew both you guys, when I was head writer slash producer, which was sort of like

it's like being a player coach and it's kind of tough, you know? Uh, but I mean, I did, and it really takes a lot of time away from, from writing my own stuff, which my, that my only, my ego is in writing so that anything that where I felt like I, I didn't have the space to sort of go off on my own and come up with something. Um,

But I know that I got some junk baskets, as we would call them. Just someone was really right there with it, and I just was able to come up with the best way of phrasing it or something. Well, can I give you a specific example of something you elevated a bit that was really very silly? It was me doing George Michael on Update, and I had all the get up on, and it was all about, look at my butt, look at my butt. And it was like, my butt has magical powers, right?

And we were doing these things about magical powers. And then you came up with the line, if you put a wilted flower near my bottom, it blooms. Okay, that sounds... Just a little bit of an assist that took it to another level. Oh, yeah. Schneider would be sleeping outside your office and you crack the door to go get a cup of coffee. All right, help me with coffee machine. Yeah.

And it was tough because we'd wait outside there. We'd usually go to dinner at like that Mexican restaurant. We'd walk down or we'd go to- Oh, he sent me. Oh, yeah. Or we'd go to Wally and Joseph's or whatever. And then we'd come back and then everyone's stalling to write. And I'm like, oh. And then by the time I get notes that maybe this is something I shouldn't write, it was 2.30. And I'm like, wait, this is all I have. So, I'd go try to jump on something else and help out. But go ahead. Go ahead, Danny. I just thought we should give-

Jim, one of your talents is political comedy. And so we had the campaign. This is in the late 80s. So we had Dukakis, the Democrat, nominee for president versus the guy I ended up doing, Bush Sr. And there was a really great line in their debate. I didn't have a good Bush at that point, but Lovitz had that line.

You surely did by that. Do you remember it? Well, no, I was going to say, I thought your Bush was great. It got better. It got wilder over time. We should talk about that too, because you and me and Al, and especially you, rhythmically kept extending it

And I was doing lazy syntax, that guy over there doing that thing. And then eventually it came to, and I remember specifically Jim saying this to me, oh, it's going to be na-ga-da. Yeah, na-ga-da. And how is that spelled on the cue card?

Oh, yeah, yeah. That's where we- N-A-G-A-D-A. Yeah. Not gonna die. So we did extend the rhythms, which the audience went with us, you know? Yeah. But the line that, I don't know who wrote that line when I, as Bush, was going all over the place, that guy down there doing that thing, going for like a minute, and then Lovitz, as Dukakis says, I can't believe I'm losing to this guy. Yeah.

I think that was like you, but that was maybe it was Franken. That was Franken, I'm pretty sure. But it's a great line. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and it was it was the idea was it was supposed to work both ways, that it was like a commentary on Bush, but it was also a commentary on Dukakis's confidence. You know, he was unshakable. He always acted like he just, you know, kicked ass, you know.

But sometimes when I would do George Bush Sr., I would think I was going to be in trouble after I finished because I would go so out there with it.

You know, I'd be like that thing guy over there moving in with the Sam Hussain one. That was you. Once you established it, it was just you. If you looked at maybe the first time you did George Bush and one of the last times you did Bush with the leap and people would go, I had no idea there, you know, how much it had evolved, but that was just you having more and more fun. And, and, and over time and people, um,

Who'd been watching the show certainly had no idea, you know, they that they were just leading them along. Can I tell you one thing that happened that would relate to this, which was I don't know if this has happened to you, Jim, but or David, but I was doing Vegas with Lovitz and he went to a party and he ran into Gene Kelly's widow.

This is like four years ago. Wow. Okay. Gene Kelly's widow. And she said, tell Dana. Cause he's telling me, John's telling me that Gene loved his George Bush senior. Every time he was on Gene Kelly would say quiet, everybody Dana's on, you know? And so that kind of blows my mind. That stuff's fantastic. I mean, when you get feedback back, I gotta be honest with you. I,

I guess I'm learning that Gene Kelly was alive into the late 80s, early 90s. But I had the superstar team because you and Al are different flavors of writer, right?

And that having both of you and me in the center and the three of us really created this thing that got huge. So anyway, we were always, we were always able, like the, the thing about our openings, which I don't know if your audience knows that we call them cold openings because you come right up on them without any warning. And, and the, the ideas of the studio is usually so, um,

clogged with sets because we burn a lot of sketches that are dropped after dress rehearsal still require sets and take up space and everything. So the ideal cold opening has to be something really simple, easy to do. And so that's why over the history of the show, there have been a lot of

oval office the whoever is present at the time delivering a message straight to the camera because it's something you can write on a Friday night so that it can be super topical you don't have to build much yeah just a chair and it's usually at home base where they do the monologue correct yep yep and so it makes it it makes it um and like when Dana was doing Bush it was just something that you could

you could be, you know, I mean, we weren't, we didn't have to worry about Dana. So, so it was just like, we, we'd figure out whatever the idea was going to be, if we could think of one at all. And then, and, but a lot of times, a lot of times, Dana, we didn't send you out there. Not a lot in terms of the script.

And we just relied on you to the red light goes on and you're going to push it up and, you know, and we're going to have something. Sometimes I'd come in Saturday morning or noon. And then I would hear we're doing a bush tonight. You know, sometimes, sometimes it's Friday night, but sometimes Saturday morning. Okay. And then you and I, I guess we're, but we would, we would, uh, we would often have to, uh, I don't, there weren't a whole lot of them in fairness that, that, uh,

You got by Wednesday or that we were able to do by Wednesday. They tended to be a Friday night thing. I remember one that was planned was was is remains one of my favorite Bush pieces. It was the it was the if if you guys remember back, he was accused of because of the Willie Horton ads and stuff of doing a lot of negative campaigning against Dukakis. So the joke was.

he had won the election you know he was president-elect but they still had plenty of money left over so they decided to do one more negative ad you know

And so it was the last negative ad. It was like a kind of a, and it was you sitting with your grandkids, like eating popcorn, sort of screening the negative ad. Anyway, but I just remember that as one that stood out because I know we had done that for read-through. And I remember you were like, really? It's at read-through, you know? It's that early. That stunned me. You know, Rosetta Stone, the most trusted language learning program.

If you want to learn a new language, which no time like the present, it's always fun to learn when you get older. I know. And it's not learning a language when you're older, you know, over the age of 20 is difficult. You know, I mean, all the high school Spanish I took, grade school Spanish, you know, all I can say is hola.

And hasta luego. So it goes out of your head. So now you have Rosetta Stone, David, tell them about it. Well, Dana, you know, more than anyone trusted expert for 30 years with millions of users in 25 languages. Uh, I mean, my gosh, they have Spanish, French, Italian, German. I don't think you can throw them a curve ball. I think they're going to know what don't they have the language you want. Yeah.

It immerses you in many ways. There's no English translations. You understand? I know no English. You need a Rosetta Stone for English. No English translation, so you really learn to speak and listen and think in that language. That's the whole idea of Rosetta Stone is that it sticks to your head. It sticks to your brain. I learned German out of a book. It just doesn't stick as hard, so this is the way to do it. Just don't type.

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There's a true accent feature. It gives you feedback on your pronunciation. Yes. And of course, there's desktop app options. There's an audio companion and ability to download lessons offline. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so that's great. Lifetime access to all 25 language courses Rosetta Stone offers for 50% off. A steal! Oh, my gosh. And I do think that the off-label thing that... I'm ad-libbing now, going off script.

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Also, when you, when I left by then, so did Dana, but were you around, I think I read that you said Obama was very tough to do because no hooks. And I think that is true. Dana's sort of does one now. It's pretty good. But I think at the time, very dicey territory.

Well, part of the thing I discovered with Obama, I mean, I would have said if I did say that, I'd probably change my mind pretty quickly because he definitely I mean, I know Dana does a great Obama and I've seen I've seen other people do really. I mean, so he's he's not he's a lot easier to do than, say, Biden, which I consider like one.

really close to 10 out of 10. Difficulty. You don't think, well, Dana. It's easy. Come on. I know, Dana. I love your Biden. Come on. I'm not kidding around. I'm saying you can't. I'm just saying the degree of difficulty is extreme. That's much harder than Obama. Don't you agree? Yes. Obama, I only had two hooks. One was he worked his pauses so brilliantly. Yeah. We're going to do some things for the American people. Yeah. But

Five, four, three. That's what we got to do. And the biblical there. And then the other one he did was politically, which was funny. And they all do it to a point. I know Biden does is talk, try to talk things into reality.

You know, so during Russia's taking over Crimea, that's not that's not that they are not being doing that. That's not conducive. Tanks are rolling in. That's not conducive to international relations. That's not a good thing. Shouldn't be doing that. No, that's a great Obama. I'm just saying that my only point was that Obama, I initially thought like, oh, that's he's going to be tough. I guess maybe if I had expressed it better, I would have said,

there's a factor of people liked obama so much more than they liked any of the other people we're talking about and also obama is a genuinely cool guy i mean he yeah it gets in the way of writing because he actually is really funny it's hard to make him look like an idiot

He's not an idiot. He's the funniest president. If you have seen him like at the White House Correspondents Dinner. Oh, yeah. Things like that. He's actually really funny. He destroyed Trump and then Trump ran because of that. Yeah. Yeah. But he so but the audience I've discovered.

doesn't really like when if they think you're making fun of obama they sort of start they start sitting back with their arms across their chest going you know tighten up a bit yeah think again you know like we had talked about briefly just that idea of teaching or something that's overtly has a political point of view and then have doing something that has a

Using the word silly. Like I would do to break it with the audience for me so they'd be comfortable, I would do him doing nursery rhymes. Yes. And I would couch it as if no matter what Obama says, you can't not listen. Jack and Jill went up the hill. Fetch a pail of water. Jack came down. Jill fell down. Very funny.

That is a great insight because, yes, an audience will be perfectly... It's more harmless, yeah. But it's when they feel that you're criticizing them. Even when you're not. Right. See, Trump, I...

I missed the entire Trump thing because I left the show in the spring of 20 May 2013 was my last show and I was never there coyote in your house there's there's a little a little doggy oh we'll just have to ride it out

It's part of the charm factor. It's a charm factor. I thought he'd say something like, I'll make it stop. That dog's got to go. That dog's got to go. I'm afraid I can't do anything about... The dog will stop barking in a second after the danger has passed. The dog didn't like my Obama impression. That was the problem. The dog is offended by my Obama. Tulip is a fan of all your work. Tulip?

I didn't name the dog. It's my old girlfriend's dog. You weren't there during Trump. You mean for the Baldwin Trump? I wasn't there for the Baldwin Trump. I mean, they...

The way they see Trump was the exact opposite of the way the show treat Obama. I mean, the show went the show was absolutely everyone there was a huge Obama fan. So there was not going to be anything really critical of Obama. You could put him in certain situations where he got to be funny, sort of shitting on Republicans or else if if it was funny,

There were certain things. I wrote a thing with Seth Meyers where there's Obama meeting with the premier of China.

And the Chinese premier was just busting in on you owe us money, you know, said it was the translator. So it was Will Forte who was fucking brilliant in that piece. God, I love Will Forte. He did this. He did. I can't think of the was it the same premier? Anyway, the Chinese premier and Nassim Pedrad was the translator. And you guys probably know that I love to write

pieces where someone's translating for someone else. It's sort of funny. Been a thing of mine ever since the Spanish game show back in like 1978. And anyway, so it was the St. Padron's doing the translating and and the guy would speak in China and Chinese and to be like, when are we getting our money? And then Obama would like, you know, and it's like and then the premier would speak and she would translate like, um, um,

Does the premier look like Mrs. Obama? You go, what? You go, does the premier look like Mrs. Obama?

Then why are you trying to do sex to him? You know, that was all kind of we want our money, you know. And anyway, so that we were able to do because we weren't able. We didn't play as like we were critical of Obama. But the last piece, the last political piece I ever wrote, I came back. It was an idea I had in like the summer of like.

it was before Trump, so it must have been like 2014. I had an idea and I called up Lauren and said, hey, can I turn in an idea for cold opening? And it was Obama talking about ISIS. And this is when Obama had been, in all of his speeches, he kept saying like, now there is no connection between ISIS and the religion of Islam. That's just, that's not a thing I would ever say. Right.

You know, it's there's no connection. And so it was the idea. The premise was Obama addressing the nation, saying that he just he'd been doing some thinking and he realized there's a huge connection between ISIS and Islam. And if you think about it, I mean, there's one on the side. There's the whole thing with the you know, with with the Allahu Akbar. I hadn't thought about that at the time.

But that's, that's pro. And so anyway, it played. And so I remembered it was very popular with, you know, Frank and other people I showed it to. And, and we did it. And I remember showing it to a friend of mine, Lawrence O'Donnell, who, who, you know, has the law MSNBC was a college roommate of mine. And, and, and he, and I showed it to him and he says, I think they're going to think you're making fun of Obama.

I said, but no, it's silly. It's silly. It's more. No, it's more making fun of sticking to that idea that like because it was kind of silly to keep insisting. Absolutely. That, you know, ISIS has nothing to do. Nothing at all. I tell you. And so and so and he was right. It played to absolute silence. Wow. And and and kind of surprised people at the show because I got to say, I mean,

I don't know, I might not be the best judge of it, but I thought it was pretty funny. Had some good jokes, and I don't remember those jokes, so I would share them with you. But it played the absolute silence. And so I realized that that's a bit of a third rail. If you're going to do Obama, you have to. But I remember pitching. He came to the show when he was a candidate, and he

He there was we were in a long line in the hallway because the Secret Service, you know, they wanted, you know, space to be able to they sort of blocked off the hallway. We're like lined up shaking his hand. It was like a receiving line. And I remember he's going along sort of, you know, a word with each guy. And then I say like,

uh you know i grew up in joliet and he like he said like an arrow hitting a thing and quivering and he just stops dead and then gave me like three or four minutes right because uh and so and he was showing off his knowledge of joliet which is impressive i have to say really you know so have you been you know i was down at six quarters on larkin i go yeah you know and anyway so upstairs later

we were he was going to do something on the show and I'd written something for him. And and I, I know this would be more effective as a story if I remembered exactly what it was. But and I watched him laugh as he read it. He was chuckling to himself and then just said, of course, you know, I can't do this right. And I said, well, I was afraid you might think that. So for our next podcast, I will dig up that thing. I know I didn't throw it away, but, you know,

There was something about Obama was a guy who you knew he's basically a funny guy, so you can at least pitch stuff to him. But like when McCain did the show, there was friends. You can get it on. No, no. But McCain McCain had this thing where and people have sort of forgotten this aspect of his career. But he was.

like a scourge of wasteful government spending. So David, you would know this from Arizona, seeing ads and stuff. He would, um, yeah, but he was always talking about my friends. Um, this is why are we, what is, this makes no sense at all. And anyway, he, um, so I had this thing where he was just complaining about wasteful spending. And, and one of the, one of the jokes, almost my favorite joke in the piece was, um, was, uh, um,

And what about this, my friends? A government program that warns convicted child molesters when a 10-year-old boy moves into their neighborhood. What is the point? I mean, I don't understand. $40 million for this program. And it's not even the money. It's not even the money. I would be against it if it were free.

And but $40 million. So it's so my friend. And he goes, he goes, I know this is funny. I don't know about every joke in it. And so like 10 minutes later, like this terrified aide comes up to me and goes, the thing about the child molester. I mean, that that's that's not in the piece, right? I mean, that that that's not going to be in the piece.

And I go, well, yeah, I mean, he didn't object because no, no, no, that that's that's not. And then the same guy would would appear like.

Every like half an hour to go like that's that's still not in the piece, right? It's right. It's that's not in the piece anyway. Well, you know, I find that, of course, everyone thought I went to cards and put it in the piece. No, I didn't. You went rogue again. Don't you think? I mean, maybe we should finish with this because you also I find people laugh at.

Republicans more easily like I would do George W. Bush in Texas they'd go crazy Trump supporters hardcore supporters laughing their ass off at Trump but you and Will Ferrell and and Daryl Daryl Hammond you know hooked up for that debate stuff and you you came up of course famously with a word that sort of defined George W. Bush in the year 2000. The strategery. Oh yeah I remember that. Yeah. Yeah.

Of course. Well, that was... Sorry. Farrell's great anyway. That was great. I had to take it further in my stand-up act because you guys were writing so funny. I just finally went to the nth degree with W like, God bless all Americans. We're going to Potech feed them here at home and on abroad. Irridiculous erase.

Creedence Clearwater or Colored Balloons. I just had to go insane. But Will owned that and he was brilliant at it. And so was Daryl's Gore was great. Yeah, Daryl. That was a case of with Daryl's Gore was a real...

You know, Daryl's very serious about his, especially his political impressions. And he, he, he breaks them down to like the little phonemes and little, and it'll say like, I've seen this, I noticed this thing where Gore does kind of a thing when he's saying yellow or something. And like these really like, they're like, like 10 decimal place kind of observations, you know? And then I would come at him with a,

with a more like a wide scale kind of wide focus kind of thing, like, or wide angle, maybe it's what I'm searching for. But, but like, I remember I had noticed that,

uh the way gore had that rhythm where i go uh jim uh in my plan but in his plan and they had that kind of and i remember working with him was like me working from one end of the continuum and him from the other and meeting in the middle and i i was really um it it wasn't

I mean, I did, you know, have a lot to do with his impression. I loved writing for that character. And in a way, I would have probably had more fun in a way if he had been elected just because it was I always said Gore was inherently interesting and weird. Yeah.

He was a Tennessee gentleman is the way I look at it, because I would do it for my wife, and I'm just doing this. And she goes, and she thinks it's so exaggerated. It's like, well, I take umbrage con, madam. He's a Tennessee gentleman. And that was kind of my key into it. No, no, and that is exactly right. But, I mean, it should be a little exaggerated. I think so. Yeah, you identify that.

That kind of sibilant thing And then you have every right To accentuate it You know This planet is getting hot I shit you not Anyway My last two things David has his final question Why are we wrapping this up This is going great It's going great It's going to be a two parter so you get extra

One is, I was trying to look over all the great ones you'd written or had a hand in, but Chippendales is one of the all-time. Change Bank, Chippendale. There's so many that you were there, that we were there for. Tell the Chippendales story. Because that's a top 10 for a lot of people. This absolutely ties into David Spade. So I...

I hope I'm right about this. I should ask David, my memory. Okay. My memory is that you arrived for the fall of 90 spring of 91 season. Yes or no. Yes. And no, I did four shows with Rob at the end of the year with dice clay, Candice. So 89. Yeah. Then I came back and we, and Farley and rock joined and,

And that was our first official like year. So that's, that's, that was 1991 or something. And then, cause I had been talking to our friend, Robert Smigel, and he had looked it up and said like, no, David arrived after Farley. And I said, no, I remember him. I thought, so I had been convinced by Robert that,

I love Robert, but when it comes to dates, he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. He had been convinced that you had come after Farley. So that kind of does queer this story a little bit. But I know that I've said this to Dana, that I one time made the mistake when I didn't get my first computer until...

This week? Well, no. 2013 was the first time I ever used a computer. And I had been given an absolute state-of-the-art MacBook Pro by Lauren as a present in 2004. And it didn't come out of the shrink wrap until for nine years. And so, by which time it was no longer state-of-the-art. So, the first time I had done a different interview for a different project, it was for this book called

Poking a Dead Frog. It was interviews with comedy writers. And anyway, so I was the one I wanted to see something about the book. So I Googled it and then I see my name and I sort of click on that. And my name was mentioned

in a nasty review where the guy especially went after me. And so, and that was the experience was so upsetting that I vowed I will never again click on anything I might see in my, and even someone like me, I'm not nothing like you guys, but you know, there, I have like a Wikipedia page. And so I've never looked at it because to me, it's like Medusa, you know, I dare not

So I occasionally will ask my son to... Would you check my Wikipedia page, see if there's anything I need to worry about? Mostly it's just inaccuracies, but occasionally there's been stuff that definitely is problematic. But so anyway, I extended this for the most part to...

Anything on YouTube, although if it's a piece that I wrote, I'm willing to look at that piece now and again, but they only recently put the Chippendales piece up on YouTube. It hadn't been up there for a long time. I'm pretty sure. And I was looking at I was looking at like.

like Ricky Gervais or something, you know, I wasn't even looking at a Saturday Night Live thing. And then I see in the right-hand column, you know, all the suggestions and there's Chippendales. I go, holy shit, I haven't looked at this since it aired. It does that on Pornhub too. So this was like 20, it was from 1990. So that's going to be,

Like 20 years, at least. So I look at the piece and these pieces never I just one of the reasons I don't look at them much is because they always they're never as good as you might remember them. And and sometimes much worse than that. But but in this case, it was the comments and the comments were like.

90 better than 90 percent savage. Oh, really? They hated it. No, no. And all of that was about how cruel, how awful, how evil, how. And you come on. You guys have to back me up on this.

Sometimes it was all we could do to get Farley to keep his clothes on. Break that down. At a rewrite meeting. Okay, so their point was... He would just run in nude. What goes through the mind of a writer to think it's funny to make poor Chris Farley take his clothes off for this sketch? It's just humiliating someone over something he can't help. And so... And the only reason...

I would have done the thing is because Farley was so he loved doing that for so many. Yeah, he loved getting anyway. So but David, here's where you come into the story. Finally, so I'm reading like comment after comment because I kept reading because I'm hoping it's going to turn around, you know, in the flow and that someone's going to, hey, let me stick up for the piece didn't happen. And so and so I get to like comment 14. And then there's this guy who comes in and it's like, OK, you guys want the story?

Yeah. I love the story. So here's the story. I happen to know some people who shared it with me. David Spade was walking down the hall at Saturday Night Live, and he hears sobbing coming from Chris Farley's office. So he goes in and goes, Chris, what's the matter? And Farley's at his desk just crying his eyes out. And David goes, Chris, is something wrong? What's happened? Is your spaghetti not here yet? Yeah.

Farley through his tears is saying, they want me to do this piece and it's so humiliating and I just don't want to do it, but I'm terrified I'll be fired if I don't do the piece. And David says,

What what piece do they tell? What is this? They want me to be naked in this Chippendale male stripper piece. And of course, the person obviously doesn't know that you would be fully aware of the piece. Yeah. So anyway. So according to the story, you read the script just gassed. Yeah. As you're going through a page, oh, my God. Oh, my God. Every page got worse. I know. So then you said, Chris, stay right here.

You marched down to Lauren's office and said, if you air that piece, I quit. Wow. You're going to have my job. It's not worth it. If you're going to do this kind of thing, they're my friend, Chris Farley. And people are going, oh, my God, that's so great. It's like Spade seems like a great guy. Yeah. He's in it. Yeah.

I walk back and they go, I go, hey, Lauren doesn't want to talk to me. So I guess you're going to have to do it. I have no juice here. In the fall of 1990, that might have been the response. Is any of that true, David? Is any of that true? Is any of that true? Did you go to Lauren's office? No, I know that Chris loved that sketch and I was standing very close watching it going,

I didn't... I knew it was like a 10 out of 10. I didn't know that it would have the impact for years and years of like one of the best ever. And he was so pumped. It was pretty early on where it solidified him as like such a star. Patrick Swayze, yeah. There's no way, the way he leaned into it, threw himself into that piece, that if there had been any... Believe me, I never...

I would do a piece where I felt like I was asking some person to be humiliated, but Farley just was said, yeah, fuck yeah, I'll do it. I'm not, he loved doing it. And one of the things I really think that's what sort of bonded him with the audience. That was his fourth show. He didn't care. Oh, it was his fourth show. See, I knew it. It was early. It was early on. And it was like, whoa. The reason I started by asking you, David, if you remember precisely when you came was because I was talking to Robert Smigel, uh,

this past summer, I suppose. And, and I mentioned this experience of like, man, I, I, I made the mistake. Maybe it wasn't a mistake, but I, I read the comments on Chippendales and whoa, boy, it was like better than nine to one against. It was like, I have very few friends on that comment thread, you know? And so, and he goes, well, let me check. So he, I, he's tapping something out on his computer. He goes like, okay, David Spade didn't even start at the show until

until like it was another three shows after Chippendales after Swayze are you serious really and he goes yeah that's so that next time you read a comment that's but of course as it turns out Robert was wrong well you know Jim another side story is when I went to

or you know how Tuesday night the host gets trotted around and we get to talk to them all, the writers? So he was in the writer's room by himself and I was coming down the hallway and it was like midnight and there was a PR person and I said, hey, uh,

Hey, and I start to go in. She goes, hi, can I help you? And I go, oh, I just want to talk to Patrick. And she goes, and you are? And I go, David's face. She goes, and what is this regarding? And I go, I'm just a writer. I just want to ask you. She goes, oh, he's so crazy right now. Wait a minute. And I go, he's just reading People magazine. I can see him. And she goes, yeah, it's a little nuts right now. If you can come back later. And that's how I started Receptionist. Are you telling me that was the genesis of that? Yeah.

And that was Swayze's show, which was... I didn't write it that week. Holy shit. I wish you'd have told me that story. The receptionist. Oh, man, that's David Spades. I know you've been hogging this podcast the whole time. But this one...

David, you've had so many years to tell me that. I know. Isn't that funny? That's how I knew for sure I was there. That is fantastic. Hysterical. But Farley, just to put it to bed, was love that sketch, crushed in it, heard about it forever. Patrick Swayze was great in it. Nealon was funny. I mean, was it Nealon and Jan Hooks? Didn't you write when it was like Adrian, Barney?

And then Barney keeps making faces and like, Barney, Barney, it's over. It's over. Like he's still trying to win. Barney, our decision's fine. Yeah, yeah. But no, by the way, let me just say, not only was it did, was the impetus or the impulse to do that piece, it was because Patrick Swayze was the host. And you look at Swayze and you go, come on, Chippendales dancer, right? It's a perfect...

Written thing for a host too. Yeah. The idea that was that, that I was sitting there going like, how can I exploit Farley's overweightness? And how can I get that on the air? How can we put a sketch around it? Humiliation. Start with humiliation. No, I think I did one that was worse with Chris.

What was that? But it never blew up like this one because Chris was game for anything. Was it the spaceship? David knows it better than anybody. But I don't remember the exact, but I remember I was Ross Perot. Chris was in it.

Maybe Frank had wrote it, but by the end I'm riding Chris. He's kind of, and he's, and I'm going, I'm going to ride you piggy boy. Come on now, piggy boy. Here's, you know, so that one, you should be canceled. I was even asking Chris, is this okay? And he was just laughing his ass off. He doesn't care about anything.

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All right, Jim, before we go, and I know you got a million things to do, but this last thing is from me and Dana. We both know that for the people that don't realize how much you've done on the show, Dennis Miller actually said you were the second most important person in the history of SNL behind Lorne. And I thought that was great until he said I was the third. Yeah.

So... Got the second most important guy in the building. Fucking downie. Yeah, it is true. You were such a big part of that in Letterman. But this thing that lives on for you, lucky for you, you're on memes on Instagram all the time, is Billy Madison.

You gave the greatest speech. And I think, did you help write all of Billy Madison? Are you throwing jokes or do you just get that part? Only that part, only that part. And I was up in Toronto, not, not very effectually, but, but I was asked to, to, you know, work on, on Tommy boy. And I was up there with Fred Wolf and, and yeah,

I'm pretty sure that's when this was. Yeah, they shot the same summer. Okay. And so, and so Adam asked me if, if I would do this thing. And it's funny that we're talking about the Genesis of things. Well, the, the thing about Farley, if you guys remember, that's what I always used to say to Farley when he would speak at a writer's meeting, I would go, you'd go like, what about, we'd go like, thanks, Chris. Everyone's now dumber. Yeah.

Are you proud of yourself? I hope you're happy. Are you proud of yourself?

Our producer, Greg Holtzman, says it's an important part of his childhood. So what is it? So just set the scene real quickly and then what your line that is now remembered. It was kind of long though, right? It wasn't just that. Well, it was the punch, punch line. I tell you the funniest, the funniest time it ever came back at me. I was at my college 25th reunion and I was doing a little presentation where I showed clips from the shows and both of you guys are represented. You'll be glad to know.

And so it was my Harvard 25th reunion. And I'm standing there and I was there's a sort of like it wasn't exactly backstage. It was actually outside. It was kind of like a courtyard. And I were going to I was going to be introduced and come out. And it was sort of pacing like going over what I was going to say. And I look over and about as beautiful a girl as I've ever seen in my life.

And David, if you'd seen this girl, you would have been all over that. But she was this tall, beautiful, blonde girl. She brings me and she. Well, I mean, David, you know, he's a man about town. Yeah. But but Dana, Dana was our he was our player and remains our player. But anyway, so this girl comes over to me and it's like she actually sort of like sauntered sexually over to me. And it was like.

like a James Bond movie, saying she she grabs my ear and whispers sexually into my ear.

the entire speech from Billy Madison. But she had it word perfect. And I didn't I didn't remember it myself. This is 1999. So it was like, you know, five or six years after the movie came out. I didn't remember it myself, except the parts about everyone. It was like at no point in your rambling, incoherent. Did you were even close to anything?

that could that resembled a and I don't remember. See something point. I award you no points. And everyone in this room is now dumber for having heard it. I award you no points. And may God have mercy on your soul. Yeah. And and that's it that she does the whole thing perfectly. And then her father, who was my classmate, steps out from a pole. We got you. This is my daughter. My daughter.

my daughter claire and i it's just such a such a bizarre experience to this day um yeah that's that was such a way to see the movie that are listening adam sandler's character gives a speech in the gym and it's horrible and then jim critiques it and it gets the last line is may god have mercy on your soul just for giving a uncoordinated speech basically wow and then um

uh, Steve Buscemi is up in the stands with a high powered rifle and he shoots Brad Bradley Whitford. Um, the bad guy, the bad guy. And, uh, that was still, that was a lot of, a lot of great people in that, uh, in that movie, Norm was in a reaction shot. Yeah. And, uh, uh, that's right. We got, that was a fun, uh, hang that, that, uh,

- Yeah, it was called "Billy Madison" and we were called "Billy the Third," do you remember that? And the Turners named the movie "Billy the Third" a Midwestern Tommy boy.

That was what it was called. And then when Billy Madison was shooting, we were shooting, we're like, oh shit, he's going to come out first. We can't use Billy twice to SNL, you know, all on SNL. I did not, I didn't never realize. I thought when you said Billy the third, I thought you were saying like, it was my third priority that summer. No, it was, and they were, they were shooting and we were shooting and then I was like, fuck, so we couldn't come up with Tommy Boy for a while because Billy the third was, it was Billy and then turned into Tommy and then I think Brian Denny just called him Tommy Boy and, and then,

I didn't even like Tommy boy at the beginning. I don't know about that one, but now he's kind of stuck and now I like it, but that was why his Billy was taken. We both wrote a movie with Billy and the same summer we shot. I remember, I remember I got roped into that because I, I had Lauren had wanted me very badly to, to work on the script. And I, I, you know, I, I, I think a couple of my ideas remain, but it was really Fred and, and, um,

i thought actually the funniest things in the movie were you and fred and and um

But anyway, there was an arbitration with the Writers Guild because I think whether or not the question is whether or not to share for Fred to get part screen credit. I said, I don't deserve it and I don't need it and don't worry about me. But I remember that it was the first time I was ever involved in the craziness of the committee. You know, they award huge points to the names of the characters.

And I go, who the fuck cares what a character's name is? Unless it's like, no, but who had the idea to call the guy, you know, Brad Hartman? And I go, well, okay, that wasn't me. Oh, really? Because with you, he was Andy Barnett. Jim, I remember one scene you wrote in Tommy Boy that stuck with everyone. It was where Farley took off his shirt and said, look how fat I am. Okay. Okay.

that what i was i was mad at him you're always you guys would do it i don't know if it made the final cut but i go this is jim's you have to do it um and none of us didn't you threaten to quit and we all laughed at him and then i was the one that cried and said why is farley on so much oh it's because the q ratings just came in um

uh david everyone knows you did all you could to keep that out so well jim thank you i guess we'll we'll go but you're we love you uh everyone talks highly of you downy the one and only let's not let this be the only time we get together you know uh no david i got your phone number i know i tricked them into giving it to me i know it's yours because of the outgoing message

So I'm not going to say it. Don't worry about that. You know, but I was not able to me a long ass time. Yesterday was rocks was rocks birthday. Did you call him? And while I tried to, because I don't have an up-to-date number for him. So, so I, I Marcy Klein, who was texting with text me like, Hey, you know, it's Chris rocks birthday. And it's funny. Cause I just had dinner Sunday night with Tim Meadows and,

And Tim told me, well, my birthday was yesterday and rocks is coming up. So I was aware. And I know Marcy Klein talks to Chris all the time. And so and so Marcy had sent me a text about something else ago. Hey, and she goes, and, you know, it's Chris Rock's birthday. And I go, hey, well, send me send me his number. I'll text him. Happy birthday.

And then there's like nothing. There's no response. And then I get a text like, I'll hook you up. I'll hook you up with him. Meaning she doesn't want me to have this. She doesn't want to give me his phone number. He loves you. So I just texted her back saying, you know, maybe after I've been at the show a few more years.

By the way, Jim, this is like it's back then. It's me and you and Dana talking like we're walking. I saw Rock of the Night, Meadows and Marcy Klein. This is like we're all talking still from a while ago. We have a bond. We don't want to make you nervous, Jim, but the actual working title for this podcast is The Hot Seat.

But we didn't want to let you know that. We didn't have enough gotcha moments, unfortunately. I'm glad I did not know that because I would have been a fucking nervous wreck. No, Jim, you're great. I did not know that. Anything you say is interesting about old SNL and everyone loves to hear it. But we'll talk soon and thank you for coming. All right, Jim, we'll talk soon. We're going to be talking. All right, guys. I will be on the phone. That's what we're doing. Okay, bye, guys. Bye-bye. Thank you, Jim. Bye-bye.

Hey, what's up, flies? What's up, fleas? What's up, people that listen? We want to hear from you and your dumb questions. Questions, ask us anything. Anything you want. You can email us at flyonthewallatcadence13.com. Hey, Alex. Alex May. Alex wants to know what your experience was like living in New York City back in the SNL days. Figured you were at 30 Rock all the time, but curious what New York stories you've got and whether you liked it or not.

He loves our show. That's like a 45-minute answer. I know. That is a small book. It's like a 100-pager. When I got out there, I was... My brother, Andy, and Katie, they lived up in the Upper West Side, so I moved up there. And I didn't really know anyone. And a lot of people live in the Upper West Side. Dana Carvey, Dennis Miller, Mike Myers. And where were you? I was like 84th and West End. And so I had a dinky little dump, and...

- It was tough living up there. I'm from Arizona, so the living in through the winters and not, my hair got brown within minutes. What happened is my hair was always white 'cause I was in the sun, always in Arizona. And then in New York, it's only sunny for about 10 minutes a day because the sun goes between the buildings and it comes straight down on you. - Oh yeah, no, no, in your winters. - And it's shadowy, it's freezing. So hair got dark, didn't eat well.

and loved New York, but the experience was really just being in the building. We didn't do anything other than that. - Well, first of all, I was there before I did SNL. I worked in Rockefeller Center in 1981 with Mickey Rooney and Nathan Lane.

And I got an apartment on Lexington Avenue, and they told me that Robert Redford edited Ordinary People in the apartment. And I said, yeah, right. Six years later, I'm doing a movie with Burt Lancaster and Kirk Douglas. The director says, oh, I was an editor. I edited Ordinary People with Robert Redford. Where'd you edit it at? And that was the apartment. We can cut that one. Here's one there for a California. Oh, I like that. That's a real answer. These are long stories. But you'd go to a movie.

and it's like 65. You'd come out of the movie and it's 25. I'd never experienced that. Degrees, yeah. Yeah. Getting cabs, like I didn't have a car service anytime. So just getting to SNL on Saturday, if it was snowing, trying to get cabs was really difficult. I would say experientially, Rockefeller Center is just the coolest, the weirdest, kind of almost haunting building ever.

all the history of it and uh there's nothing like being in new york city doing well on saturday night live that's the most intense thing you could have and you know i don't know if i'm the first one to think of this but if you can make it there um you can make it anywhere anywhere new york yeah new york new york i mean it's uh you know these old vagabond shoes you know

I had. Should I start spreading that news? You know, I think that's a good idea. New York, New York. Let me tell you. Thank you, Alex. That was a great question. Thank you.

Fly on the Wall has been a presentation of Cadence 13. Please listen, then rate, review, and follow all episodes. Executive produced by Dana Carvey and David Spade, Chris Corcoran of Cadence 13, and Charlie Finan of Brillstein Entertainment. Production and engineering led by Greg Holtzman, Richard Cook, Serena Regan, and Chris Basil of Cadence 13.