Conan O'Brien
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Yes, I have actually stayed at Airbnbs from time to time. And truth be told, I do really like them. I'm being totally honest right now that I've had great experiences with them. Yeah. I mean, you can have your look at you go get your own place, get your own pool, your own living room. You're not going to walk in an elevator. You're not going to see people when you're walking around in your undergarments. Yeah.

Yes. And if you don't understand what we're talking about, you should go online. What we're saying is you have a house with a kitchen and a bathroom and it's just for you, tailored for you. You liked your Airbnb over a hotel. Yes. And I do think I've had relatives stay nearby and sometimes it's very nice for them to do an Airbnb and have a little house and they're not underfoot. The last thing you want is your house guest to say, excuse me, um,

Where would I find a towel? That's a toughie when it's- Because they're naked? Well, it's like the 1800 time you say, on the towel rack. Yeah. Thank you. Oh, I was going to look there. People don't even think hotels sometimes just go, hey, I'll go there, I'll get an Airbnb. So you won't regret it? The thing about Conan, Conan's someone who I've known, I remember when he and Greg Daniels came in. So I've known Conan-

For a long time. There's some heavy hitters, writers on that show. Wow. Yeah. Great Daniels from The Office and from King of the Hill. Yeah. And Conan. And these guys, you know, there's just, you meet a lot of Ivy League guys. Like you went to Arizona City College, right? I went to DeVry. What was it you went to? DeVry. Yeah, yeah. School of Modeling. Yeah. I went to San Francisco State, the Gators. It was sort of like...

Harvard or almost no name. Yeah. Because you get there and you're like, oh, you went to Harvard and you're dumb like me. And Conan wasn't like that. I mean, Conan doesn't wear one thing. Same with Kevin Nealon. Conan does not wear the fact that he's 6'6 on his sleeve. Like he's...

There's no sense of him being a big guy. Some big guys are tall guys. Yeah. Like Greg Holtzman. You got to tell they're sort of carrying. Yeah. They're high. Nealon's so tall too. It's embarrassing. I don't even like hanging out with tall people for real. I hate it.

I was with Barkley in Arizona because Charles Barkley used to play there and we went out one night. Hey, Charles Barkley. It's terrible. Terrible. Sorry, Frank Orlando. We went out once and I go, it's too tall. Hilarious guy, but I can't look. I look shrimpy enough. I don't need it. Well, I know what you mean. I mean, going on the Conan O'Brien show, when Conan would come out, he's standing up. Then Andy Richter would stand up. People don't realize Andy is 6'4". Oh, really? Conan's 6'6".

So I'm like, you know, I start singing the Munchkin song. I mean, I haven't put those little parakeet things. I sit on top of it because I'm really high up like a bird. Oh, you do? Oh, yeah, yeah. And then I sit and I go. That's on your haunches. If you get on your haunches. Yeah, I go as high as I can. And then and I sit on an Apple box.

But yeah, Conan's going to be great. He's a fun dude to talk to. He's easy. He knows what he's doing. He knows how to talk. Conan is obviously, he has a huge podcast. He's a great conversationalist. We have dinner with him all the time pre-COVID. Remember COVID? I know. This podcast may cause COVID.

Hey, that's the whole idea. You go, I am so busy. It's just because of COVID. I guess I'm a pop out a little podcast gang. I know you almost have to do it now. It's so sickening. You have to do it. I met a comedian about six months ago. I won't mention his name, but he didn't have a podcast. And I go, are you shitting me? You do not have a podcast and you're in show business.

You know, Fallon's gonna come on by the way. Schneider, Fallon. It's gonna be great. Fallon is the ultimate. You better laugh at us. Fallon is my, yeah, he's... Oh, we're not doing Fallon yet. Conan. Okay. Conan has produced more funny stuff than almost anyone in the history of American comedy. If you look at all the Team Coco stuff...

He kind of stayed fairly evergreen. He stayed out of the intense politicization of comedy. So everything he does is evergreen. And my wife and son are obsessed with his travel shows to the point. He has that too? Yeah, he goes around the world. Oh, he went to Coney, goes to Cuba and stuff? Yeah. You have to be smart. I would not know what to do over there. They watch him over and over again. It's pretty cool. Well, here he is, Conan O'Brien.

I want to welcome the two comedians, entertainers, performers that I've had dinner with the most in the last, say, seven, eight years since I relocated to L.A. Conan O'Brien and David Spade. That's a high honor. Thank you. Yeah, it was a lot of it was tedious. I'll be honest. I'm going to do the backpedaling that Conan does so well. I really, really like you, but, you know, it got a little boring.

There were times there were gaps in the energy. Sometimes the energy would drop and you're very restless, David. Oh, me? I thought you were going to say Dana. No, you get up a lot. Dana's gotten a lot better. Dana used to be very hard to talk to. Kevin Nealon used to be hard to talk to, but I've been working on both of them. Really? I actually, for the first time about a month ago, made eye contact with Kevin Nealon. No. And it was a huge...

It just was a, this is something I've been working on since 1988. Yeah. Big step forward. Um, David, you and I don't hang as much. No, but that's okay. Oh, you guys together. I say nice things about you all the time, which is. Our last dinner together, I think was Ted Sarandos. Would that guy run something? Rob, who else? Us three. And that was it, right? It was us three. And Ted Sarandos joined us. Yes. Um,

He kept pitching me shows. I'm like, Ted, I'm trying to eat. Just pass. He had a mommy. My God. God damn it. He kept saying, Dana, whatever you want. He at one point held up one of those giant checks. It was already signed. And he said, just fill in the amount. And Dana was like, I'm eating. Like a publisher's clearinghouse. I'm John Lovitz. Oh,

Oh, and then we're at that dinner and who do we run into? Yes, we run into Lovitz. And I love it because Lovitz always does, no matter who he's with. My favorite thing is he was once standing with this very attractive woman and I was talking to him and in front of the woman, he looked at her and

and then looked at me and went, "Jealous." Jealous? Jealous is a top five. It's a top five love it's, but he can be standing with a hobo. He can be standing with a shoeless hobo and he often is, and I'll be talking, I'll be like, "Oh, hey John, how are you?" And he'll go, "Oh, that's my friend, he's homeless." And I'll say, "Oh, well that's too bad, John, I'm sorry for..." And he'll look at the friend and then look at me and go, "Jealous."

Like, no. No, I'm really not jealous. No. His big move is he gets new sunglasses or has cool sunglasses, and that sets you up. Nice sunglasses. They come down. Sometimes he goes, get to know me. Get to know me.

He wanted that to be his, after the liar, he was desperate for a catchphrase. Desperate. And he, no, he really was. Of course. I know the catchphrase, yeah. One of them was, he really wanted to say, so you should get to know me. Get to know me. And would say, it's okay. But. It was. And then he had another one. Do you remember it, Dana? Yeah.

Goodbye, everybody. Goodbye. Goodbye, everybody. Goodbye. But that was a good one. That was a pretty good one. The whole sketch was built around the guy saying goodbye, everybody. Goodbye. It's really a nothing sketch just to keep getting to that. Yes. Which I loved. And he would...

He wanted another catchphrase because I think he saw merchandise and he wanted... He was thinking ahead and he didn't care what sketch you pitched him as long as it got to, what's the catchphrase? Does it get to, get to know me? Or goodbye, everybody, goodbye. By the way, Conan, have you been in those read-throughs where someone's jamming a catchphrase down your gullet and it's not clicking for 13 pages and everyone's dead silent? Yes, yeah. One of my favorite... I have...

Lots of Saturday Night Live memories. And some are the ones that people...

You know, most people think, oh my God, you were there when U2 played. You were there when, you know, iconic rock bands playing. Neil Young, Springsteen, Tom Petty. And I've told this to Neil Young. It was the best live performance I ever saw on Saturday Night Live. Keep on rocking in the free world? Keep on rocking in the free world. And I've never seen anything like it. It was, he...

It's very hard. Lauren always used to say that TV is the worst way to experience rock music. TV is the worst way to experience rock and roll. Don't tell our musical guests. The second worst way is radio. There's all sorts of formats. The third worst way is live in an intimate setting. No, Lauren, that's the best. And if you can with a string and it's to a neighbor, it's like really, really bad. Yeah.

But so anyway, he said, but that was...

I don't know what Neil Young did, but he transfixed everybody. It was great. Well, Neil Young Garage Band. I got Ashley Simpson anyway. Oh, you were there for that. No, I think I was gone, but I couldn't think. We did have a lot of good bands. I mean, we had Nirvana, we had Pearl Jam. But, you know, people always expect that that would be the memory that you would think of most. Right. Eric Clapton. And I would think, yeah, because when you're watching them rehearse,

You can stand in 8-H, which I know looks big on TV, but it's much smaller. That's even cooler. And when you're standing there at rehearsal and you're watching the greatest musicians of the 20th century perform right there, it's quite stunning. It's quite amazing. But I still think read-throughs...

Those are the memories that are with me the most because they contain PTSD. Oh yeah, the good and the bad. The good and the bad. And so if you have a sketch that's killing at read-through, you're delighted, but I think they say negative impulses affect you more than positive ones. It's like gambling. Yeah, and also, yeah, exactly. And also we all know,

You don't see the people that are laughing in the crowd. You notice the people that aren't laughing. And you guys have never had that, but trust me, it's no fun to have a nice member not laugh. Yeah, let me explain it to you. I'll draw it for you. But sitting there, Conan, for 45 minutes, say you're not reading anything and you know it's coming. Some are killing, some are bombing. It's just very hard to control your energy and your emotions because all of a sudden, Lauren does, and in walks Conan. And then you've got to be on

It was very nerve wracking. See, I was not a performer. I was just a writer. So I did not have-- You were in some cameos. Yeah, I was in tiny things, but mostly you guys were the ones that had to be on. So what the first thing you have to do when you're a writer, and one of the things that's so nerve wracking about read through, you've been up for two days, you haven't had a shower, you're completely whacked out, you've written this sketch and you desperately want it to work.

The first thing you have to do is get to the performers that are in the sketch and tell them how to do the thing you want them to do. You know, you have to tell them, obviously, I'm not going to tell you if it's a church lady. I don't have to say boo to you. Be sarcastic. It's Glenn Close. You have to say, hey, I'm going to be with 43 other writers that are going to run up to you right now and say how to do their sketch. Yeah, exactly. But you also have to get to David first.

and say, David, in this one, you're, you're, you're, uh, you know, cockney, you're, but you're also kind of sarcastic, uh, or, or Dana, I've got to get to Dana and I've got to tell him really quickly, Dana, the idea in this is that you get on an elevator with sting and this is kind of how you're doing it. Uh,

It's that kind of, oh, I recognize you. Yeah, good, okay. Well, how was Harvard? Then I just walk away. Exactly. No, you were very nice. Some people were quite dismissive. Can I just say for a second that the time before read-through, it's like Grand Central Station. People are running around. People are trying to get the script together. And especially with a host, Conan, you writing for a host who's got 55 things they have to read,

So you have just maybe what, 25 seconds to give them kind of a hint sometimes? Yeah. And you have to get to them and it's intimidating because sometimes they are intimidating people. It's George Steinbrenner. You know, it's a guy who fires people for a living and he's hosting the show that week and you have to run up and say, you're a ballerina and when you do, and he's just like, get the hell out of my way.

By the way, what about read through? Then they look at you and you're across the table shaking your head going, you blew it. Yeah, exactly. And they just look down. The memories that haunt me are if you've got a sketch that all relies on one turn of phrase and that's the moment where everyone's going to start laughing and then everything else is funny because of that moment. Right. It's like you've lined up

dominoes. And what happens is you hit the first one and it, it falls and it hits the second one, but then that one misses the third. Oh,

That's the sketch. So you know you're three pages in and someone says, really? Because this restaurant sells octopus. That's supposed to be the thing that sets. And there's no laugh. And there's no laugh. And you know that everything else isn't going to work. You just lit the firecracker that's supposed to set off every other firecracker and every other missile and it goes, pfft.

Yeah. And just spray the water on them. It's 17 pages. You kind of overwrote it. 17, the worst possible. You look ahead and Lauren's reading the stage direction and it's silent. And then it's like,

you know, they all then march into the mines. They go downstairs. He repeats, this is an octopus store. Oh, he hustles it. Yeah, and then he starts to read faster and faster. He reads really fast and swallows the words, yeah. And he checks out. Everyone in the room hates you. Everybody hates you because you've consigned them to 17 minutes of an octopus sketch and the fuse didn't light in the first page and you're screwed.

That's what I remember more than anything. Sweating. Well, I was lucky enough to be on the show long enough that toward the last couple seasons, I never wanted to peek at read-through. Because one time Al Franken said to me, hey, you peeked at read-through.

You know, I did it all out at read-through and I never got back to that. So then if you know it's on, if it's George Sr. or Churchley, then you can kind of cruise into it, not worry about it. We'll get it there. Don't you worry. Bonnie Turner will do something. Yeah, that reminds me.

That reminds me of something David told me once that I never forgot, which is I was there for David's audition for Saturday Night Live. And I remember that night very clearly because I was sitting at a table with Lorne and we were watching different people come up. And apparently, David, you were told, you were given advice by Dennis Miller, which to me sounds like terrible advice. But Dennis, just before you went on, said, you know, just remember, you don't want to

Like, you don't want to kill too hard at your audition. And I was, when I, you know, because... It throws a red flag. Because, yeah, and I was thinking, no, kill at your audition. Of course. Kill a bit, for sure. But what does that mean? Don't kill? I would want to... You know what it was? It was Spudly. Because, you know, he was like my favorite comic. And then he was with...

And they helped me get on this young comedian special, which Marcy Klein saw or whatever. By the way, I hired a truck to back up. I thought it'd be funny. Now it's not. There's beeping.

So Marcy, everyone's there, I guess. And then Dennis comes up backstage. How you doing, spud? And I go, I don't know, obviously shitting my pants. He goes, don't worry, man. You don't want to kill too hard. It's a red flag, some polished road hack. And I go, right. So don't do good. And then he walks away. And I'm like, and they're like, and three, two. And so I go on. I'm like, am I not supposed to? So I don't do that great. I think we all remember it was, what the lesson was, I think is,

They're going to look at your writing. You don't even really... I didn't realize this for a long time until I watched comics and liked them that I could tell if someone had game when I go, oh, I like the way that joke is structured. I like the words in that one. I like whatever. And it was a little offbeat. I didn't see it coming or it was a bit of a surprise. Even if it wouldn't work, I go, that guy's good or something. And I think that's what he meant and put it in the worst possible way. But he's like, don't kill. And I'm like, I know I want to kill. I got to... That's all you knew...

That would work. You do well, and then you get hired. I think if someone comes in, this may be different than killing or not killing, but completely formed. I think if things are a little fragmented and not fully formed, then Lauren and the staff, you know, which piece of clay we can play with, we'll develop it, you know, as opposed to being completely locked into your...

Right. It gives them a place to, it gives them a place to go. No, I see what Dennis was trying to say, but if I was going out to audition and the last thing I heard was don't kill too hard, I'd be confused. It's like sabotage or something. You know, also I always, but it wasn't. Dennis and I,

Subsequently, every time I bump into Dennis or talk to him, he's delightful. But back in the 80s, I think he just had that kind of cha-cha way of going at people. It's almost Sammy Davis Jr. Yeah, but it's almost... And so he... And I think...

for some reason, I was, I remember I was quiet at Saturday Night Live for a long time. I'd be funny around the writers and then when the performers would, when the performers would come around, I'd get real quiet or if Lauren's there, I'd just listen and I didn't shoot my mouth off. I was, I was, but I remembered and I, and for some reason, maybe,

I don't know, Dennis, I just feel like there was a period of time where he just was thought, I don't know about this, conesy guy, you know? So I remember once- I remember one time I said something-

And we were over by the craft service table that leads into 8-H, where the food is. And I'm standing there by the food and I'm, I don't know, I'm like, I'm 23, 24 year old string bean. And Dennis said something and I went, yeah, well, blah, blah, blah. I just said something. And he took it the wrong way. He thought that I had taken, that I had dissed him some way. And I'll never forget what he said. He went, oh, so Cozy takes a shot at Den-Den.

And I'm like, what? He's Betty Davis now. Yeah, I know. Cozy took a shot at Denton. It's going to be a rough fasten your seatbelt. Fasten your seatbelt. It's going to be a bumpy ride for Coco in the next couple of months with Denton on his ass. And I just thought, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I didn't. Well, OK. You know, the guns have been drawn. We'll see how this plays out.

I can't see it. Okay, corral. This is war. Hey, Spudlies, don't go out as Dickie Pryor. No one expects Sam Kenison. Land the couple and get out. Okay, that's all it's about. Don't kill too hard because they'll resent you. I'm going to a theater. He's always dressed to go to a Broadway show. Dematerial, Spud. Go out there and eat it.

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The guy from Harvard, is that Conan? I love that that's what I'm reduced to to this day. I thought it was Yale. Conan, did you notice in read-throughs, like, because I went to community college, San Francisco State, and once in a while, it'd be a Jack Handy sketch or something, and I would mispronounce...

a word and I would hear Little Pockets, Yale, Brown, Cornell, Harvard, just little giggles. Probably that didn't happen, but I definitely felt my lack of education. Like I can talk to you about, you know, the Third Reich or the, you know, French Revolution. And it does seem like people who are highly educated have a bigger palate.

No, I think that's in your head. I really do think that's in your head. Well, I think I'm as smart as them. He never talks to me about that, Conan. He talks to me about the dumb stuff so I can understand it. That's right. Well, you call it the third rich. You didn't understand. It's one of those things, Conan, that I probably perceived once and didn't happen again. Well, yeah, that's the other thing, too, is if I could change one thing about

you know, if I could change one thing, it would be that nobody knew where I went to college because you guys know me. I'm, I don't think that's where my sense of humor comes from. I think I'm,

And I think there were times when people were like, oh, you know, Harvard guy. Christ sakes. Christ sakes. Ivy League. Yeah, Harvard guy over here. And you'd think, well, OK, it's not Hogwarts. It's not a magical place. It's a school. And I met some really smart people there. I also met some pretty dumb people there. Well, I think it's because you were president of the National Lampoon. Harvard.

Harvard National Lampoon. And you were elected two years in a row. I saw some notes about that. So I think it wasn't just the Harvard. It was that. Yes. Well, yeah, I was. I don't consider you wearing your intellect on your sleeve at all. No, I try to. I do my best to hide it. It's what about that sweatshirt that said I'm the best of the best?

Was that a gift? I thought that was ironic. What about that sweatshirt that said, got Mensa, that you used to wear? I took a Mensa test, by the way, because my stepdad thought I was so smart, and I got the results. He goes, you know what? This is stupid. He crumpled it up. I had...

You know what? I think the mistake I made is when I showed up at Saturday Night Live, I was wearing the mortarboard on your head that you wear at graduation. And I walked around with a tassel and a diploma. What the fuck's a mortarboard? That's the thing that you wear on your head at graduation. The flat thing? Yeah. I didn't know it was called a mortarboard. Jesus Christ. Guys, you had a semester at Arizona State Community College. Fucking mortarboard diaries. You did go to Hargores. David, did you go to college at all, Mr. Spade?

You know what, Dana? I have 14 credits in anthropology. Yeah, I went to Scottsdale Community, which is basically high school plus. And the Artichokes. And then I went to Arizona State. By the way, Scottsdale was like my warm-up for ASU. And I go, I'll just cruise through this. And then I was like, wait, this is hard. Now I got to go to a fucking ASU after this? This is supposed to be the layup. And then I got to ASU and I was in a fraternity and

I have to say, and all the fraternity guys get mad at me, but I just don't think fraternities are a good idea in general. Oh, no, they're evil. It was 90% hazing and...

pouring paprika on my head and spray painting my body. Also, David, you're a fragile flower. Fragile. I think of them making you do a keg stand and drink six quarts of vodka and I think you would die immediately. I think you would die the second they had you do anything. I can't believe you survived that. They would use you as a prop to beat up the captain of the football team.

I know that Dana and Conan know I'm a fragile Dan line. And then I go, well, at least it's within my tight friend group. And then I realized like I come off the world like some fucking hard ass athlete. But the really the world just kind of knows I am. I sit funny on Ellen. They're like right away going, what's happening?

On your haunches. Yeah, I sit on my knees. Yeah, you sit on your knees. At the restaurant we were at, you were sitting on your knees a lot and you'd get up and you'd walk around. Stretch out. You were on a lot. You were doing a lot of cocaine at the restaurant. Can I ask you guys a question? Yeah. I had cocaine mixed with the second booster.

I did not do well with cocaine. I did it once. Oh, Dana, that's too bad. Then I burst into tears like a half hour later. Then I did it the second time, drove to the comedy club and said, they all hate me. Everyone hates me. And I drove back home. That was, I only did it twice. Yeah. I look at both of you and I'm going to include myself in this. I'm gonna look at all three of us because I never did it. And I always just knew I am not the personality type that,

That needs to be artificially revved up. Yeah. You need to calm down. I saw a doctor. Yeah. I mean, you guys just saw me at SNL and I was always grinding my hands together, practically starting a fire with my knuckles. And the Conan show, you would, or, you know, late night, you would ride a bicycle. Yeah. Yeah. And I would grind, I would grind my hands together and grind my teeth and shatter them because I was so...

uptight and the last thing in the world no one's ever said you know what you need man you need some cocaine no one's ever said that to me and Conan yeah just to for sure interrupt you the um

Sorry, we're new at this. But when I was in community college, this comedian gave me a few bumps, you know? I'm using street lingo right now. Cocaine lines. Yeah, yeah. He bumped me up a little bit. A little sniffy jiffy, a little power flower. And so I'd do it and then I liked it. I never did it before stage, but I liked it and then I thought he did it. It was cool. And I was a little bit of a Count Gacula there for a while. And then I got... And then I slowed down in college. But when I got to SNL, the only time I should be doing it, because I had to stay up all night...

I never did it once. And I thought, I always regret that. No, I'm kidding. But I always thought, wouldn't that be the time to be like, because I'd be like, yawn. I would get myself, I'd make myself get up at 9.30 just because I thought it was so weird to stay up all night every night. I wasn't used to it. And I'm like, this is so weird to be in New York. And I wanted some semblance of anything normal. And it was very hard to,

I don't think people at home know, they always hear you write Tuesday night, all night. But you're allowed to go in at noon and write. It's just no one really does it. No, that is a completely messed up thing. And I've asked, I've interviewed current cast members, and I'll say, do you really still...

That thing where you come in on Tuesday and everyone stays up until Wednesday night, you don't still do that, do you? And they'll say, yeah, it's kind of still there. And there are all these rumors that,

It started in the 70s. And obviously it hasn't changed at all. And people were doing cocaine. Now, the group that I came in with, you know, Greg Daniels and Bob Odenkirk and Robert Smigel, we were all like getting, we were all getting our cholesterol checked. You know, we weren't, we weren't,

We weren't guys that were, hey, how do we score something? No, we weren't partying either. No, none of us were. And, you know, clearly there are famous cast members that did, but for the most part, it was a very...

I remember going into Tom Davis's office once at like one o'clock in the afternoon and he had a bottle. Yeah, a hilarious guy and wonderfully sweet guy. But he had a bottle of red wine on his desk and he was drinking red wine at like one o'clock in the afternoon. And I remember being...

being scandalized, you know, and red wine is nothing, you know, I was like, what? It was like Mad Men, if you know the reference. Let's have a little Tom Collins or whatever. Yeah, exactly. But I don't, I don't, we were not those people, but we still stayed up.

for whatever it was, 35 hours in a row, because that was ingrained. It had been institutionalized in 75. That meant you care. That means you're working hard. Schneider loved it. Schneider would stay up and he'd wear his boxers and I'd go, that's enough. Let me ask you a question, Conan. Do you have a story there, David? Sorry. No, just that we would write and I would go home

Because I wanted to, and you know, Cohen, I don't think people know also when you're writing on a legal pad, you can't, the girls were like madmen. They were typing up four girls in a room. Remember Claire and everyone? Yep, sure. They'd type up in a sketch and I didn't know how to write sketch format. So I'd write it out with this guy says this and do it as close as I could and

and put a little stage direction. And then I'd go home and then I'd finish it or something and I'd have to drive a cab back to hand it in. Then I cab back home to sleep two hours and come back. It was such a weird process, but I couldn't email stuff in. That would have been fucking great. And then they would do it for me and sometimes they would do it a little wrong, you know, because you want to go over it one more time, but you have to drive in to go over it again before it went in the packet for read-through. Yeah.

And sometimes a little teensy mistake like that would, like you said, screw everything up. Let me ask Conan a question. I just want, because you were there as a writer. To me, as a cast member going through, I remember on Tuesday early evening,

The writers are hanging out in the writer's room. A lot of food's being ordered. And a lot of talk about sports. Anything but the task at hand. Anything but. You're right. And then there's this hours and hours of just subconscious work, I guess, and pressure. Because sometimes I would leave as a baby at 3 a.m. And you guys would still be there leaning back in your chairs, picking on some tacos or whatever. And then I'd find out later they got done. But I mean...

What did you think about that six hours Tuesday evening that was kind of... Oh, those are the dark times. I would get very, very... Like, I got nothing, nothing's happening. I got nothing, and I shouldn't be doing this for a living, and I'm a fraud. Seriously, I would have some kind of, I would say, at least...

on any second, you know, not every week, every Tuesday night that I was writing, but I'd say at least 50% of them, I'd have a profound collapse, mental collapse, because what happens is you hear people

Everyone else has a good idea. And you hear Franken laughing. And you hear a big gales of laughter coming from other rooms. And I remember very much, you know, sometimes thinking, yeah, this isn't what I'm supposed to do. I don't know what I'm supposed to do. And then you snap out of it. But a lot of waiting for the commissary to open so you could get breakfast and it would open at like seven o'clock in the morning. And that's when you could go and get-

You know, a bagel with some bacon on it and drink a cup of coffee. Yeah, it was really... But Conan, do you ever say like, I mean, in your head, like I used to think, I don't think of it then, but what are the chances you're going to think of a...

bit every week a sketch that everyone will talk about it's just such a impossibility sometimes I would jump on with someone had a good idea and they needed help and I will write it with you just to get my name on something because I wanted to feel useful there not get fired but I would blank out I'd also hear Smigel and Sandler cracking up in the office next to mine you know it was connected to mine I'd be like fuck I'm so jealous they're killing it Sandler was a guy who most people when they show up are somewhat nervous

And I remember, you know, I remember David, you like walking office to office and saying, hey guys, you know, what are you guys working on? And I remember it very well, Chris Rock, because he showed up when I was there. And when he would first-

He was very quiet. He's a very sweet guy. Yeah, very sweet, very quiet. And not the Chris Rock that- On stage. That people see on stage, who is the most confident man in the world. He's kind of asking, what do you, I don't know, what are you guys working on? Yeah, I don't really know. I don't really know. And that was the energy people had. Sandler, the second he showed up,

was just so happy and enthusiastic about everything. And he'd be like, oh, let's get milkshakes. Let's get milkshakes. Yeah. You know, and he would be doing bits and just laughing his ass off. And I thought he's, he's so comfortable. He's kind of confident about it. Yeah. Yeah. He was so confident that he was, I think he was one of those guys who was like, I'm going to be a big star and let's get started. This is going to be fun. It's almost like it wasn't even a possibility that he wouldn't be because every, also everything was clicking so fast. Like,

people smigel downy me you guys we'd all laugh at what he's doing and it was so different

and off what i would think about in my own head that i was like wow that's cool he's got this whole persona and then he threw they throw it into iraqi pete or they throw it into something bit you know and you'd see pieces of it and then you go shit they're buying it they're buying they're buying more and more and he just go i'm gonna write an update i'm gonna write a song i'm writing another update and just keep going and they were working there but he did have a period where there was i think he was inevitable and really confident but he did have a period where he was uh

I don't, not sure if I remember it correctly, but I think at one point, Lauren will kind of feel somewhat out. Dana, Adam, what do you, you do think that's going to do? Cause when Adam first came out with all, it didn't always kill, but,

And I remember one time in the hallway near the makeup room, I had an office over there on 8H and I came out in the hallway and he was leaning back against the, and this was not normal Adam. He looked emotional and almost like he was going to cry. Yeah. Because his sketch had gotten cut. And, um...

As I remember, I gave him a pep talk. He never forgot that. But he did, he was 23 when he got the show. But also remember, I don't think people at the network weren't, I don't think they weren't thrilled. And that's another thing. They didn't quite get it yet. Yeah, what happens is that stuff, there's revisionist history. You know, what happens, you know, later on now,

everybody loves Norm, but they really didn't. You know, he, they really, there was a lot of, there was a, yeah, he got fired and, and, and Adam, there were people at the network that really weren't supportive of Adam. Didn't get him. Yeah. Yeah. And I think Lorne was probably get some pressure, like what's with the Adam guy. And you think, it's just so funny how later on to anyone listening right now, everybody's,

everything seems inevitable. Everything seems, you know, it's the way people read history. They read history and they think, well, of course, Franklin Roosevelt became president because he's Franklin Roosevelt. And of course he was president like four times. No, it's not inevitable. It can go a million different ways. And at the time there are a lot of people, you know, who are later on, you know, I mean,

I mean, I remember Farley, I was there when he was waiting outside Lorne's office to get his interview and Lorne had him waiting for like two days. And I was just talking to Farley and joking, doing bits with them. And at one point I took him around the, I took him around the,

And I was pretending that I was a big shot and saying like, and so there'd be a crane that was already going up and I'd be like, Joe, get that crane up. And the crane would be going up anyway. And I was goofing around with Farley and he was laughing so hard. He was such a immediately great, sweet guy. But yeah,

You know, I think he was, when he first came on, he was nervous. And I remembered it really turning around when I think Jim Downey wrote the Chippendale sketch. And suddenly it's, oh, he's... With Patrick Swayze. With Patrick Swayze. And it's this... That was one of the top ever, knowing right off the bat, like standing 10 feet away going, this is like one for the books. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is...

and you knew just, okay, this is, I want to be on the floor when that thing happens because that's going to be a tsunami. To be a big guy like Chris was at that point,

And he was so athletic and so physical. And to see a guy, his weight moved like that. And so it just blew the roof off. You know, back to misunderstanding Sandler for a second. I remember Sandy Warnick, his manager at the time, he said, he's such a good-looking kid. I don't know why he does all that goofy stuff. You know, so you're right. He did have the girls right away. But you know what's interesting about Adam? Adam said this to me once. You mean they liked him? Yes.

One of the things that fascinated me... He pulled me aside. He said, Conan, how do you do? That means I like you. Let's get lunch. It's so funny because he lives right up the street and he comes by my house and he'll shout outside the house, Conan! Conan! He's got the best yell voice too. But...

I guess one of the things that I never, he said this to me and it really fascinated me. I asked him like who his idol was at the time. And I thought it was going to be a comedy person. And he looked at me and he said, James Caan. And I was like, James Caan, like James Caan, the, the, you know, the godfather. Yeah. And then I saw it like, which is Adam has that. He, he can channel that. He has that.

And you know from his dramatic roles, he can kill it. He can lock eyes with somebody. He can sell it. He has that energy. He has a tough guy energy too. He has a tough guy energy. Definitely. And he's...

So he's doing all this stuff that like, I can kind of see what Sandy Wernick's talking about, which is he probably thought, here's this good looking kid with real acting chops. And why is he dressed like a baby going, you know, and it's, but Adam knew what he was doing.

I remember Adam when he was not, he'd not done a movie yet. He was starting to do well in the show. And I remember him saying, yeah, I love Smigel. I'm going to put him in all my movies. I remember thinking, oh, he already, wow, all your movies. 100% true. How many? Oh, about 70. I'm like, what? But Conan, you were saying like when you see him in a hallway standing there, we've all been there where you go, you're newer. Yeah.

And everything hasn't clicked for him yet. And he's probably in his head going, what am I doing? Am I any good? Like, is this shit too weird? Am I as good as these guys? Everybody has that. I think about this sometimes with Saturday Night Live today.

which is I'm always grateful that things happen to me when they happen to me. You know, when you think about it, our staff, especially when I first showed up, the staff we were working with was really small, you know, by today's standards. It was, when I first showed up, it's, there's like six,

and I've seen group pictures of the staff and it's Dana, Phil, you know, Kevin, Jan, Nora, Victoria. There's like seven of us or something, yeah. There's like seven of you and John Lovitz and you think it really does look like the cast of Gilligan's Island and that was the entire cast and I think in a way,

everybody was in almost everything because they had to be. Yeah, you were constantly in the show. And now I am always hearing about, okay, there's Cecily Strong, Bowen Yanks. You'd be like, great, great, I got it. But then you realize there's 35 other people and that with that many staff, I think it would be hard to,

I think it's maybe must be more challenging for the writers. And can you imagine being on that staff now and thinking, how do I get on the air? And also they have guest stars now. We never, we would do that once in a blue moon, but. Tanner Ackroyd came in and did Bob Dole. And that was like a big thing. I would have been livid as a cast member. Just think, Cohen, when we were there, we were sort of overlapping with Dana and Dennis and Lovitz and, um,

When we all came in. And it was pretty full then. And also Franken was available, you know. There's a lot of people that do stuff. And it's hard to... I don't even know what I'm talking about. Well, no, it's harder...

It's hard to pop. And it's like, I think if you're playing on a basketball game and there's 35 benches and 12 players on each bench, your chances of getting in the game are, I would think, be much tougher. You can't beat down the innate fear and terror and uncomfortableness of doing that show unless...

You get on air. It's very hard to get, because how do you try not to try? And that's, it took me 80 shows, I think, to get out of my head. Right. And I think that's why, and clearly they keep finding really great, talented people, but I would think it would be so much harder

if you haven't found your foothold right away, if you haven't found your niche right away, I would imagine it being...

I would feel for a cast member now because I think, man, that's a challenge to pop. You have to have a clear niche. Like if we have a... I was sort of sarcastic. You know, Chris was this. Adam was doing this. So at least you have that. Then you sort of go, oh, I'm not just a one-trick pony. Anyway, long story short, I am. But at the time, I wasn't... So was Johnny Carson. I was like, I can do other stuff. And then they go, okay, what? And I go, I don't know. But...

And maybe for the writers, it might be easier because you have more people to cast, but it's also hard in a new world to say, can Dana play a girl? No, you can't do that. Or if you're Asian, if you're Korean, are you allowed to play Japanese? Like there's so many, there's a new world where

Things are offensive. And on a show like SNL, are you still allowed to be goofy and do impressions? And they must have one more. There's stuff I was involved in that could never be on today. I don't even want to mention it. But it was the sketch. At one point, we had Candace Bergen on and she kind of talked about how it was, you know, maybe a little not politically correct.

But do you guys think that, like, Saturday Night Live today, it's easy to get into grumpy old man-itis? Like, oh, we did it this way. Because I remember running into Sid Caesar in an airport, and I could tell he was sort of bitter. That it's not, you know, SNL's not that good. We did it better. Is art always just built for its time? I mean, my father just hated the Beatles and then loved them later. It's just kind of an interesting idea of, like, is art always...

Andy Warhol in 1962 or whatever. Saturday Night Live is exactly where it's supposed to be culturally or do you have any issues with it? I don't have, I don't, I made a promise to myself a long time ago. Not be that, judging. Well, I made a promise that there are things I'm going to get and things I'm not going to get, but that be happy,

I'm very happy that I got to do what I got to do at the time that I got to do it. And I make a real effort. There are some things I don't understand, or there'll be something that people really love that doesn't click with me. But I think for the most part, if...

something's getting a lot of likes, uh, if something's getting a lot of traction online and I look it up and it's something from, uh, you know, a recent Saturday Night Live, I'll look it up and, uh, you know, it's, uh, it's, you know, Chris Redd doing Kanye and I'll be like, oh, that's really funny. That is, uh, if something's getting traction, it's usually for a reason. And, and, uh,

Yes, there's a lot that's different about that can be different about the show now. But I do very much try and remind myself that it's not worse or better. It's just different. It's just a completely different time. Steve Higgins told me that I don't know if he just said that Lorne wrote the Constitution. This is his words.

And then it sort of evolves. It's a living document in a sense. And so today it is what it is. But you're right. I think funny is still funny. You know, it's so funny, though. And now the thing now that I totally was not happening when I was there.

this business of writers dating movie stars and marrying them. And I just think about, wouldn't that be really funny if I can picture me and Greg Daniels and Robert Smigel in 1989, if, uh, if I,

If I was walking around and I... Yeah, it's amazing. I had Madonna on my arm. And I was like, guys, guys, please let me in the restaurant. And people were like, Conan, Conan, this way, Madonna. And it's just like... It's so funny. And I'm picturing... She's bragging about a cold opening you wrote. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And nerdy me and nerdy Greg Daniels. And he's got...

he's got Melanie Griffith on his arm and he's like, "Please, please move aside." I remember, I think it was for the movie "Sex, Lives and Videotape." I think Andy McDowell was on the show and she's just- Oh, I heard this one. She's so gorgeous and it was my birthday

And I didn't even know how she knew, but I was back in my office grinding away and all of a sudden the door opened and she walked in with a cake. Grinding away? Yeah, she walked in with a cake with candles on it and sang happy birthday and like gave me a hug and my soul left my body and never came back. I'm soulless.

I have never had my I've never I've never had a soul in my body. We didn't do drugs. We didn't have women. We just were there. Also, that's my racy story is that Andy McDowell very sweetly blew out the birthday candles on my cake. And wasn't that a nice memory? I'm not I wasn't sleeping with anyone famous. I wasn't you know, I wasn't being hounded by the paparazzi.

Uh, so that's a world, that's the way that sign out life has changed where, you know, the, the third assistant director on the show is, uh, is, is going out, you know, with, uh, you know, Megan, these, but we had our work in front of us and then we were behind the facade, but it seems to me that fame is talent. Now, like I, you can be critical or judgmental. This, this person's,

advocating fame or procuring fame, but it's its own talent and it's its own power. I don't know. But that would make, I mean, I don't want to judge it. It just seems like it's- I think you just did. Doodle doodle.

Yeah. You know, by the new changes, they can miss a lot of shows. Like Conan, you weren't allowed to miss shows. No one's allowed to miss anything. Yeah. This is a grumpy old man thing for sure. But I was jealous that I found out, you know, people would take huge chunks of time off if they felt like it. Or they could shoot a movie or something. Well, that was one of the things that's kind of mind boggling now is the show starts in October of

of 75 and immediately Chevy Chase becomes the biggest star in America. And like a year later, he says, well, it's either continue doing Saturday Night Live or make a movie. I guess I got to go make this movie. So goodbye, Saturday Night Live. And you think, no, that's not what you, now it's a different world. Now it's go make your movie and then come back.

You can have, you can do both. And do commercials. It's incredible. Exactly. So I think there was a, there was clearly a different, I almost think the rules were different or people didn't. I couldn't do a Super Bowl commercial when I was two, three years in.

They just said no. I didn't even know they could, but that was part of my deal. Were you offered one or you asked to do a Super Bowl commercial and all the companies said no? No, I had some good ideas for them. I had a good idea. Your agent called around. That's going to be funny if I was in one. No, I got a diet Pepsi and it was good money. Obviously, I was going to say, I didn't know what you made when you started. I think I got 900 a week to write and the Pepsi commercial, I think it was 250 grand and

And then I just trickled back down to me. They say, that's not what we do or something. And I'm like, that's not what we do. We don't make money for working six hours. It was a, it was a real crusher because I wasn't getting on much. I didn't know about a future there. And I thought, wow, at least I'll get one click off this. And, uh,

I hung in there. I mean, luckily I stayed and worked and ultimately made some money, but that was a real kick in the... We didn't do it. I was offered a giant Taco Bell thing right as I came off SNL. I was offered a giant taco once. And I asked Conan, should I do the Taco Bell commercial? I told him the number. He said, absolutely not. I'll never forget that. Conan killed it? Yeah. I had that kind of power back then. Don't you love when people say, this is what you said. I had a guy do stuff.

I said in 1979. And I remember you said that you were going there. And then I remember, I was like, 45 years ago, you get to decide what I said? You know what's so funny? What happens once you become a known person is that other people add you into stories that you weren't in in the first place because it makes it a better story. Funny. So I went back to a reunion once at my high school.

And this guy there was like, "Hey, go on in." You know, remember, you know, back in the, back, you know, we had some- I remember you, yeah. And he was like, "We had some crazy times." And I was like, I was thinking, I don't even know who this guy is. And then he said, "Hey, remember the time you and I broke into Stephen's Market? We broke into Stephen's Market and we stole all those beers, but the cops showed up, so we went out the back."

And you went left and I went right and I got nabbed and you took the beers, you fucker. But I didn't squeal on you. And you know what? I didn't drink until I was like 28. I've never committed a crime in my life. I didn't break into a liquor store, you know. You know that story's on heavy rotation too. But the thing is, what happens after a while is you get tired saying no and

You did that with someone else, but it's been a lot of years and a lot of beers since then. And then... Years and beers. Yeah, so you added... My autobiography. You added me in and I started to think, gee, that...

I don't know, it's made me read history differently. Like when I read a history book now and they say, oh, you know, Lincoln, I remember a firsthand account. I remember Lincoln once I said to him, you know, something and he said, what's that? And he knocked me right on my ass. And then I stood up and I knocked him on his ass and he said, you're a better man than I am.

And I think, I don't think any of that happened. I think you just added Abraham Lincoln to your story. I was at a restaurant early 1980s. I saw the guy doing that to Jimmy Stewart. And you could tell that Jimmy Stewart was getting really impatient. And remember that time, you know, in high school, we did this same old thing. And Stewart stood up and said, I don't understand a fucking word you're saying. Yeah.

Is that true? No, I just did that so I could get to Stuart's swing. Oh, come on. That was a good one. A good scenario, though. I wanted to believe that was true. I wanted to believe it. I set you up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, when you're hiring for your small business, you want to find quality professionals that are right for the role, obviously. That's why you have to check out LinkedIn Jobs. Everyone knows LinkedIn, but LinkedIn Jobs has the tools to help find the right professionals for your team faster and for free.

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At Robert Half, we know talent. Visit roberthalf.com today. By the way, Conan was nice to me when I got there. Conan, nice! Conan, I have to make sure I tell everybody. No, Conan, I'm sure you can be a prick. I don't see it. Conan's a sensitive person. I was there, and Conan said, as a hazing...

You know, this was right before Conan dyed his hair red. He said, go out and give me some hair dye. And you, Sandler and Schneider. And by the way, Conan, did you ever, does Jack, this is a weird question. Does Jack Candy ever collaborate with the other writers? He always wrote it by himself. I think he maybe collaborated somewhat, but-

Jack Candy was stunning because he could go off- Talk about nice guys. Yeah, very nice guys. What a genius. But also, I always envied him because he didn't need anybody else, you know? Nothing. And he would go in his room, nicest guy, and then you'd hear like- Like a laboratory. Typing, and then he'd come out and he'd say, well, good night, everybody. And we'd say, all right, sucker, we're going to be here for another nine hours. See it, we need to. And the next morning-

His sketch is the funniest thing. His sketches killed, I would say, 95% of the time. And... It was an unreal slugging percentage. I would be baffled because I'm already just a newer writer, learning how to write sketches, trying not to reek up read-through. And then knowing the level, you know, when I look back of all you guys who was so much quality there...

And then seeing like a Jack Haney sketch, which just is another move, not like better or worse, just like so smart and twisty. And you go, what is he talking about? And he was like a mad scientist. He'd go in there and no one would bump with it. You're not gonna bump with the buggy sketch. He had this idea once. And to me, it was always the simplicity of the idea that would make me think, why didn't I think of that? But his ideas were so elegant and so different.

I actually got to be in this sketch. I'm there in the background and you can, if you blink, you'll miss me. But it's James Bond's, you know, James Bond always makes his way to the doctor, you know, whatever, doctor knows. Oh, James, yeah, it's a lair. It's a lair. He always gets to the lair and shows up.

And the lair is always the most amazing thing you've ever seen. And the guy is like, "Welcome Mr. Bond." Well, this is James Bond shows up at the lair, but the lair still has three months to go before they're done working on it. Construction crews. And so there's a lot of construction going on. And so Dr. No is really pissed because he's like,

Mr. Bond, we're not done yet. And he was like, well, so sorry, Blofeld, or whatever, you know, whatever the evil guy's name is. So sorry, Blofeld. Sorry to crash your pardon. He goes, well, let me show you. Now, Mr. Bond, if you were to be here four months from now, I'd have led you over to this. This is going to be a tank with sharks. Now, right now, they're still setting the forms. The cement's coming in a week. Right.

And everything was, and over here, there's going to be a laser. Yeah. And Bond's giving him shit. Trying to scare him. And I thought, oh my God, of course, these layers have to be built. And Bond is always showing up

six months after it's been finished and it looks fantastic. It's working perfectly. Of course, he would show up while they're halfway through. And it was great. It was great. You guys, obviously, like his runners that were big were Frozen Caveman Lawyer with Phil. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh my God. Chooch is the cat. One of the weirder

ones I remember maybe you remember it but it was something about people talking to aliens and they were high up on this thing and somehow the aliens only wanted to talk about box office receipts of current movies and

And it went on and on. The one that I had with Christopher Walken that Jack, I believe it was Jack Handy wrote is we're landing on earth and every time the landing gear would come down, it would like kill a farmer or something. So we would come out and we'd be like, we come in peace, you know, and they'd be like, killers, killers. And then Walken would always go, let's,

Get out of here. And then we'd go back. And then we would land again. It would kill a farmer. We'd come out. Yeah, let's get out of here. You couldn't catch a break. And then suddenly Chris and I are in this little tight wooden structure like a spacecraft. His face is an inch from my face just crying with laughter from let's get out of here. Let's get out of here. Ha ha ha.

No! Okay. That's all I got. No, no, what I would, my question would be, and you guys could answer this better than I could, which is why I'm asking you, which hosts, when you were there, really made an impression on you either positively or negatively because it's such a strange thing that someone's introduced to your life, they show up on Monday night and,

And by the time you get to the show party on Saturday, you've been through this intense experience with them and then they get spit out.

And yeah, with hosts like, you know, with a host like an Alec Baldwin or a Tom Hanks or a Christopher Walken, you know, they're coming back in a year. But so often you never see that person again. You know what I mean? Yeah. Steve Guttenberg, you know, I remember he had a good show, but I don't think he ever came back. I do think that the athletes, Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky were big and the older movie stars. For me, this is back in for.

first season, I think. It was a Jack Handy sketch. Robert Mitchum and I were in a sketch together and neither of us knew what the sketch was about. We were beekeepers or something. So, just be, and Charlton Heston. I mean, those were the more surreal ones. Well, also, yeah, I mean, to me,

And this was true when I was doing the late night show. Anytime I got to interact with someone who had been on TV or the movies when I was a kid, that blew my mind. So if, you know... Totally. You know, I remember in the hallway...

chatting with Mickey Rooney and Mickey Rooney, there was a garment rack there, you know, that you can hang. And Mickey Rooney was very short and he jumped up while he was talking to me and grabbed the bars of the garment rack and started doing chin-ups. Really? As he was talking to me and then swinging kind of like a monkey. And I was, and he's like, you know, and I remember thinking,

telling my dad, yeah, I hung out today with Mickey Rooney and my dad couldn't process it because my dad was born in 1929. So- And Mickey was huge when he was 10 then. Yeah. Biggest star in the world. Yeah, so when Mickey Rooney, when my dad's 11, the biggest name in the world is Mickey Rooney. Yes. Like,

And there's no bigger star in the world. As you like telling us. So when I call my dad-

Oh yeah, I was hanging out with him. But then I had to tell him, Mickey, I gotta go. We gotta start the show. And so I blew him off. He just couldn't, he couldn't comprehend why would Mickey Rooney talk to you? I had the same thing, but go ahead and finish that thought. No, no, no, no. It's me throwing it to you guys saying, you guys got to meet and work with these people more closely than I did. I was a writer. Cone and I have one too, where you were there and,

One of my rock stars of my life was Bowie. And then he was music with Tin Machine. And I told Dana, but you were there during my first reception. This was a sketch I couldn't get on. And then we sent it to Bowie to be himself and come in. And then I don't know who he is, whatever the hilarious jokes are. And then we sent it to him at a Boston hotel. And then Marcy goes, call David Bowie. He's looking for you.

I go, call David Bowie. Yeah, right, right, right. You know those kind of things? I think it was on a yellow piece of paper and it was in my box when I walked into work and you pull it out. It says, David Bowie, here's his fake name, the NBC, you know that stuff you get when you get messages? And I was so sick nervous and I called him and he picked up, gave the fake name, then he picked up and then he's like, oh, this is the funniest sketch. I'd love to be in it. I go, thanks. He goes, but can I play your part? Oh, okay.

And I go, oh, the receptionist? He goes, that's the funny part. Well, I mean, me playing myself is boring. I mean, you could play me and I'll play you, your part. And I go, I don't think I can do that. It was so weird. Oh, so you had to say no. Yeah. And then he was weird about it. And then he didn't like it. He goes, all right, well, I'll see you at the show. Wow. And I go, and he hung up. And then, like you were saying just about that week, first I get to meet an idol and

I don't think I knew him. Maybe I knew him. I met him once or twice before that. And then I come back and now hear the good nights. I see him and I know there was some friction. Now I know, now I met Bowie and there's friction.

Some stormy past. So then when he leaves Good Nights, he goes, hey, I didn't really get what was going on. That's like a running sketch. And you know, I'm sorry. Oh, that's nice that he said that. I'm glad. Yes. Because my experiences with him were that he was such a gentleman. And so I get that he didn't know...

that it was a runner that you can't, you can't, you can't call Dana, you know, and say, I'll do George Bush. And you'd be the guy who comes into the room with the sandwich. Right. And it was one of those lessons of like, first of all, don't give a host nothing. You know, there was things, you know, they'd say, what does the host do in this? And, you know, you got to give them something to do. They don't, they don't, they won't pick the sketch.

If it's all you and they don't do anything, you know, and that kind of thing. So that was a classic example. He just goes, that's not fun for me. And I got it. It was all selfish. I wanted him to be my sketch and I wanted to. You have regret or things you say, and it would bother you for a while. And then later on, you realize it was nothing because when sting was on the show, uh,

We were coming down the elevator at the end of the show and I was hyped up because it was Sting and we came out and there were all the people waiting at the bottom of the elevator like a big mob. So I put my arm around Sting and said, ladies and gentlemen, Sting.

And then he grabbed me and kind of went, you know, with anger. So for years, I thought he was mad at me, you know, until I ran into him later. You know, it would go through my head sometime. The only other funny moment, well, go ahead, comment on that. Did you ever have your moment? Was he thinking you were, he didn't want to bring it up? No, I just thought it was obnoxious. I think it was obnoxious. You know, you're just, you get nervous around famous people and you can say or do stupid things. Conan? Yeah.

Yeah, I definitely... But the thing is, that's in your head and you're talking about it all these years later and Sting forgot about it seconds after it happened. And I've had, after all those years of doing the late night shows... Interview, regret. No, I've had people come up to me and say, hey, I owe you an apology. And then they'll apologize and I...

They'll say, you know, I wasn't really prepared or I had a little too much to drink before I came on and I know it was, and they'll say like, I know you were really mad about

I know you're so mad about that. And I'll think, I don't, A, I don't have any memory of it. And I don't think, no, I'm not mad at you. And I don't even know what you're talking about. Yeah, I've had that. And then they're really relieved. They're like, oh my God. But then also probably possibly insulted. They carried it around in pain for decades. And you're like, never happened. The story meant nothing to you? All that suffering. Well, we've had therapy now. So we know that we're wounded clowns in some level.

sure. Conan's not, I'm not buying that. I'm, I, I chose that moment to look out the window. Yeah, you're looking at, I'm looking at Sandler's home right now. Beautiful. Hey, uh,

Yeah, I... It's always fun. If you're a sensitive instrument, which is a good thing to be if you're a performer, an actor, a comedian, and then it infiltrates your normal life and you process people. But everyone's... Okay, well, here's a thing that I think you could both relate to, which is people...

Their assumption would be that if we make fun of somebody or we tell a joke at someone's expense, that we don't really care how they feel. And the truth is- Or we don't like those people. Yeah. And the truth is, you know, with, yes, there are people you can tell a joke about who you really despise, who are awful people, or impressions you can do of someone. But for the most part, and I think this includes both of you, I think-

I think most people would be surprised at how much we don't want to hurt someone's feelings. And that when you hear back from somebody, like I know there was pressure on you, Dana, because you did such a great Johnny Carson impression. And people would think like, oh, you're killing with your Johnny Carson impression because it was so perfect. But you're...

you're hyper worried the whole time that it might upset Johnny or feel unflattering to him. Right. And it, and it did. And it felt bad because I, when I did it and when I sat in that character, uh,

And it's been reinforced by Tom Hanks and Martin Short on this podcast. Like that was the most comfortable I've been doing a sketch on that show. I didn't care if it got laughs. I was so comfortable being that the charming Johnny. So the gentleman joins us for what you folks are home or watching a television show.

So he was fine for a while and I would still be on his highlight reel and I would see Johnny. And then there was one that offended him and then I never went on the show the last two years. So I knew that...

I was out and it was... Shadow ban. That was really, really unfortunate. I didn't like that. And someone told me that he would walk down the hall at NBC in Burbank and say, they're making fun of me now. It's time to go. Just yell it out. Also... I felt bad about that. I felt... I heard... This was from...

the great Rick Ludwin, terrific executive who... Yeah, NBC. NBC executive who loved, you know, loved SNL, loved Late Night. That was what he was in charge of and... Very nice. Really good guy and also the person who pretty much was responsible for keeping Seinfeld on the air when it was in trouble in its first season or two. And so...

Lovely guy who passed away about two years ago or three years ago. And anyway, I bring him up because he used to also work the Carson Show. And he remembers...

having to go and tell Johnny, go into Johnny's dressing room and tell him, you know, Johnny, I talked to you about, okay, you know, well, there's going to be a sketch at Stardown Live and I do need to give you a heads up that he would have to tell him and that Johnny would say, well, I, you know, don't particularly think it's funny, but that's their right. That's their right to do that. And then he...

It's so funny because you forget, because we think of him as just being on top of the world from 1962 to, what was it, 1991. He's just on top of the world. Yeah. 92. What we forget is that he's constantly, like any comedian or any star, he's constantly...

afraid and on alert that they're coming after me now. And so I read this interview with Johnny Carson from 1980, and it was in Rolling Stone magazine. And he's talking about, the interviewer keeps saying, well, what do you think of Belushi? And what do you think of Ackroyd? And he keeps asking about Saturday Night Live. And what did you think of Animal House? And what did you think of, you know, Chevy Chase? And Johnny, you realize, has been hearing

from a lot of young people or whatever, that that's what's the cool thing now. And he was the cool thing from 62 to up to 75. And not that he still wasn't great and revered, but I thought, wait, in 1980, he's worried about, and he's taken a couple of shots at SNL, you know, and how he thinks that the humor really, he thinks it's...

It's kind of obnoxious and he doesn't quite see it. And he's... It's not his favorite thing. And then...

you realize that, okay, then eight years later, 10 years later, the show is- Directly going on. Yeah, directly kind of having fun at his expense. I mean, I didn't think of it, I just always thought of at that time, Johnny Carson is so secure, what does he care? You know what I mean? And it's just funny and silly. And your impression was, I thought, I thought affectionate. You know, I thought you loved Johnny. I loved being in that. And I thought it was affectionate, but- Yeah, yeah.

I do think that in show business... But I know that there was a sketch, I think, there was a sketch that was written... That made him a little... Someone wrote a sketch where Johnny's trying to be cool to keep up with Arsenio and...

And the toughest, the roughest part was Phil was playing the sidekick, Ed McMahon. And he was saying things like, he literally was chuckling and going, ha ha ha, peaked in the seventies. Old reference, lost on younger viewers. No, old reference, lost on younger viewers. Old reference, lost on younger viewers. And you think, wow, if I was okay, if there was a hot new sketch show now, and there was a guy playing Conan and I'm just,

completely out of it and I'm not up on what's happening now and I'm, you know, which would, and I'm old because I've been on TV too long, I would, it would hurt my- I wouldn't even come in the next day. It would really hurt my feelings and probably be deserved on some level. So it's, you can't have it both ways. But I'm interested in this idea that every performer becomes a caricature of themselves. And you can look at someone sometime and,

And just think, is that that person or is that a celebrity impressionist doing that person? And it happens to everyone and you have to keep a sense of humor about it. Well, you're so self-deprecating. You're always ahead of the... Well, no, but I think that it's one of the things...

The three of us have a pretty good vantage point on, which is we've been at all the different stages. And then what you want to, what I always wanted to be at the stage I'm at now is be gracious about and kind of intrigued and curious about

The young people coming up because I'm five seconds away from someone ripping me a new asshole for being too old. So just try to be gracious about all. I remember Sammy Davis Jr. on television out of the blue going, I'm not going to be competitive with Michael Jackson anymore.

And he was like almost 60. Oh, Sammy Davis. Yeah. But I had a good time with Conan. Thank you, Conan. Conan, you've been a really great guest. Guys, I love talking to you. I look forward to us getting a meal. Yes. That would be really nice. That would be fun. Yeah.

Let's do it. We don't need Sarandos this time. We don't need a Netflix guy. Oh, he was fun. He was fine, but you know, he was just padding. We move on now. We move on. It's just the three of us next time. That's it. We had a blast, but we could do with us and we'll fight to see who pays. It won't be me. Okay. Thanks, Conan. I do love you guys and thank you for having me on. It's nice to have you here. Let's have dinner soon. I appreciate it, bud. Goodbye. Check in next week where our guest will be Tom Hanks.

Fly on the Wall has been a presentation of Cadence 13. Please listen, then rate, review, and follow all episodes. Executive produced by Dana Carvey and David Spade, Chris Corcoran of Cadence 13, and Charlie Finan of Brillstein Entertainment. Production and engineering led by Greg Holtzman, Richard Cook, Serena Regan, and Chris Basil of Cadence 13.