The Power of Sales Psychology to Drive More Revenue And Profits
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You have to learn how to do pattern interrupts throughout the entire sales process, whether you're speaking from stage. And I'll give you a few examples of pattern interrupts that I do. The magician never reveals all of his tricks. I'll reveal a few.

And then pattern interrupts when you're talking to another person, you know, selling one-to-one. So a pattern or a very simple one that you might not even notice a lot of salespeople like, Hey, let me ask you a question. And then they ask the question. They just steamroll. Let me ask you something. And then they ask it what's going on in that prospect's mind is like basically just gave them no choice. But if I lean in, I'm like, can I ask you something?

You're always like, yeah, what's going on? And what I just did there is I triggered your brain to be like, wow, it must be something really important. So when I start to ask you, you're hanging on to every word. Can I...

Can I ask you something? And I lower my tone. Let me ask you. And then ask it where I'm bulldozing you, where they don't listen to you. I'm slowing down the cadence. That's just a little example of what we call verbal pausing, which breaks the pattern. So it forces the brain to actually pay attention.

Welcome to the Home Service Expert, where each week, Tommy chats with world-class entrepreneurs and experts in various fields, like marketing, sales, hiring, and leadership, to find out what's really behind their success in business. Now, your host, the home service millionaire, Tommy Mello.

Before we get started, I wanted to share two important things with you. First, I want you to implement what you learned today. To do that, you'll have to take a lot of notes, but I also want you to fully concentrate on the interview. So I asked the team to take notes for you. Just text NOTES to 888-526-1299. That's 888-526-1299.

1-299 and you'll receive a link to download the notes from today's episode. Also, if you haven't got your copy of my newest book, Elevate, please go check it out. I'll share with you how I attracted and developed a winning team that helped me build a $200 million company in 22 states. Just go to elevateandwin.com forward slash podcast to get your copy. Now let's go back into the interview.

All right, guys, welcome back to the home service expert today is one of the most exciting days for me in the podcast world, because there's not a lot of people I look up to it's sales marketing really, you know, I kind of feel like I'm at the top of my game, but one of the guys I've been following for a long time is Jeremy minor. I've had the privilege to get to know him, spend time at his office, go to dinner, go

I'm all about learning and bettering your best and improvement and just getting 1% better each week or each day. And Jeremy's taking the time to figure things out. He's not this crazy guy gonna be all up in your grill and persistent. He slows things down. He asks a lot of questions.

He literally believes that he's making lives better by sales. Jeremy, you've been in the game a long time. You've made... Yes, I'm that old, yes. Well, one point... When you were in sales... Yeah, yeah. For a company... Yeah. Tell us how... We're going to talk a lot about your history, catch everybody up. Sure. But one of the first questions is... Yeah.

You wanted to negotiate no salary, no draw, no hourly, no bonus structure. It's all commission. And you negotiated. You were doing 1.2, 1.4. You were making more than the owners, the founders, everybody in the company. A few companies, yeah. I got started in college. My first job was in door-to-door marketing.

sales and in door-to-door sales, it's not like you're like, you want a base salary of 150 grand. Plus you just don't like it's straight commission. Like pretty much everything that sold door-to-door straight commission. Right. And so I just got used to that, like just straight commission, like, you know, getting paid what I sold, you know, and as your skill level grows, as you get really talented in sales, it's hard for you to go into like a different type of sales position. Cause a lot of times they'll be like, okay, well, we're going to give you this base and

but then they lower your commissions and I'm like, well, I'm going to be capped. Like why would I want a base when I would just have like no base and just pay me a higher percentage per sale because I'm confident in my sales ability. Like typically if salespeople would come to me, you know, and be like, Hey, I want a high base and low commission. That's like a red flag. Cause I'm like, well, they must not be confident in their sales ability because they want to be capped. It doesn't make any sense. So even when I got into like enterprise, like B2B enterprise sales, um,

they would be like, hey, some companies would be like, hey, we'll pay you four or 500,000 a year base, lower commissions. And I'm like, actually do not pay me any of the base, but instead of paying me like 8% commissions, I want 12 or 14. And they're like, sure. I think after a while they're like, okay, that was an expensive mistake for us, right? But yeah, if you're really confident in your sales ability,

"Why would you want a base?" And I even had, you know, when I got into debt relief services, there's usually like a nine to 12 month sales cycle. And I literally negotiated a no base. And people thought I was crazy, but like, "Well, why is it taking you guys 12 months to close the deal?" And they're like, "Well, that's just the way it is." And blah, blah, blah. I'm like, "Oh, well, you just haven't learned how to build enough of a gap

where they feel like, where it causes them to feel way more urgency to act now and not push it down the road. And my sales cycle, instead of like 12 months, was like two to three months, even through legal and stuff. And people are like, what? So it's just your sales ability. And every time I've,

structured a pay commission, if a guy makes an ungodly amount of money, I'm still rejoicing because it's a win-win. It's like, I would never be mad if you made $10 million, I'd be jumping for joy. I'd be like, listen, dude, you can move into my house.

Like that's how cool that is. Like. It's true because I, you know, in the second career I had, I actually had a bigger office than the CEO of the company. Like they literally put me like in the corner suite, like, you know, they'd give you like huge car allowance, like $1,500 a month, house allowance, you know, but I sold like 30 some million dollars a year in revenue for that company. So, you know.

They lose me, they lose, you know, like a third of their revenue. And that's kind of scary. One salesperson. I will say it's scary when a salesperson has that much control because you're like, they could kind of call their shots and that's okay to a certain extent. It's good for the salesperson. It's almost like the guy, you, the owner, the founder bent over, like, dude, do what I tell you to do. They're almost like. I was never like that. I was very gracious. And very humble.

This is what I want to hear about. I want to hear, so you started out, first of all, tell us about the way you were raised, why you got into door-to-door sales in Utah, and then a little bit about what you did and where you're at now and where you're going. Just give us the whole spectrum. Oh, goodness gracious. I grew up in mid-Missouri on a cattle ranch outside of a town, less than 800 people. Oceola, Missouri, baby. Go Indians.

It was a long time ago, but I went to school on Utah at a bunch of friends. I served a mission for the LDS church and I went to school out there with a bunch of friends just randomly, never had been there literally, and just drove out there and got out there. I'm like, I need to make money. And

there was this, there was like this recruiter that was like, yeah, come to the college tonight on campus. There's going to be this meeting and you can make all this money in the summer, knocking on doors, giving away alarms. So there's a giving away alarm systems for free. And I'm like, I don't know how you give away something for free and make money, but I'm going to go. Cause there was food and went there. There's like a couple hundred guys there. They hire everybody because it's straight commission. Anybody wants a job you're hired. And then, you know, 90% drop out during the summer. But that's where I got started.

and door-to-door summer sales, and you'd make enough money in the summer. That was the whole pitch that you didn't have to work while you're going to college. And it's a huge industry in Utah, pest control, alarm systems- - Windows, cable. - Solar windows, cable, satellite. I mean, everything, it seems like the door-to-door mecca comes from the colleges out in Utah. And that's where I got started.

- And the whole theory behind that is when you're LDS, Latter-day Saints, you're Mormon, you go on a mission, you're selling people religion. So the theory is if you could sell religion,

You could pretty much, you're not afraid to knock on a door. That's the point. Like you'll knock on anybody's door. I think that's part of it. You know, that's, that's part of learning how to sell is being able to feel confident with whatever you're talking about on the doors. But obviously when you get down to, you have to, you have to learn the skill because people always ask me like, Hey, what's, what's a really good sales job to get when you're like just getting out of school and out of college. And I always say door to door,

or cold calling, and here's why. When you cold call companies, okay, or you knock on doors, you have to be able to react very quickly because a lot's going on in the person's mind. They don't know who you are, right? It's not like an outbound lead that responded, that asked somebody to call them, or somebody that's inbound that you go to their house, right, for an appointment or on Zoom. You can be a little bit slower. You don't have to react as quick. When you knock on somebody's door or on the phone, like you gotta know like how to like,

Frank like reframe real quick or they throw I'm not interested. You gotta be able to react and loop back around to like get them curious. And if you can learn how to do that, react very quickly. When you get into like sales, like you're talking about everything like slows, it's almost like you're, you've seen the movie like flash.

you know, where flash is running around all the people and the people are like all like really slow because he's fast. That's what sales becomes to you when you get into like sales, like you're talking about where you're meeting people that expect you to be there from a door to door position, everything slows down and it seems so easy because you have way more time to react and do things. I always say start door to door cold calling because you learn how to react quickly and it sets you up for

you know, being able to sell larger ticket items like your industry or home improvements, another good one, solar, any of those types of things. I'm wondering, I'm just curious from being a home service guy, if I should be recruiting people

the top door-to-door talent for more of a career. It's all year round. They get insurance. If you get the right ones, it's good, yeah. Well, you'd want to see their track record. You want to see stubs or something, right? Sure, yeah. You'd want to see like pay stubs because a lot of people exaggerate what they make. So if you're like asking them, you know, can I see some pay stubs, some references?

Google them. A lot of times if you're really at the top, people are going to talk about you. There's going to be press articles and stuff like that. So door-to-door people, as long as they're really good, I think could make a really good transition into home services, home improvement. So your start in the sales world, milking cows, and then got into Utah knocking doors. And

You bring us up to date, any PQ. And by the way, my buddy is just like, dude, I saw some Instagram videos, this guy, Jeremy minor. And I was already following you, but I didn't reach out. Hmm.

And then I reached out, some guy from Australia was like, Jeremy's busy. And then I was like, just tell him I want to get him on the podcast. It's a pretty good podcast. I'm local. And then we finally- Sure, yeah. Hey, you live 10 minutes away from me, dude. We're like next door neighbors. That's exactly right. I've seen your back to the future. I feel like family now. You are like family. So you got NABQ. You just wrote a new book. You've got this method of sales that really-

It's not really sales. It's asking questions of being a good human. And then seventh level. Talk to me about what. It's humanizing the sales process. Yeah. So I went to school, you know, when I was knocking, my major is behavioral science and human psychology. And I specialize in social dynamics. So social dynamics is really how society is.

shifts and changes and how do you like, it's called rank frame. You ever heard like status framing or rank framing? It comes from like social dynamics. So throughout times, different civilizations, you're ranked, society ranks you by different things, right? Like today, how- It's like a caste system in India. Exactly. Like how do people view your status? So they typically view your status based on your wealth and-

social media followers, right? If you've got 3 million social media followers, they might view you at a higher status than a guy that just sold his company for 600 million that has a thousand social media followers, right? It's crazy. I know, right? See, that's how society views in different things. But

Let's say if I'm growing up in the Polynesian islands a thousand years ago, they might've viewed my status based on what tribal tattoos I had on my arm. And they're like, because he had those tattoos, he's at a higher status than that guy who has different tattoos. So it's just like medieval Europe. How did they view your status based on your wealth, based on your privilege? And so it's, yeah. So I started learning how the brain makes decisions. It's had a really unfair advantage when I got into sales. Yeah.

You know, I get it. It's the psychology. I just had dinner two weeks ago with Robert Ciarini. He wrote the book Influence. And Presuasion. And Presuasion and Getting the Yes. And yeah, he's retired now for about 15 years, but he's still sharp. Yeah, he's head of behavioral science at ASU. Yeah. Yeah. Sharp as a tack. Good guy. So one of the coolest things that I've really been kind of digesting that you do is instead of just saying, hey there, how are you today? Right. Saying, hi, Jeremy. Hi.

How are you today? You slow your cadence down, sure. The pattern interrupt of just, you talk about this like it's the best thing of 2023. I mean, look, we follow you, read your book, the NEPQ stuff. This pattern interrupt you think is one of the best things

secret weapons. Talk to me about how that works. You have to learn how to do pattern interrupts throughout the entire sales process, whether you're speaking from stage. And I'll give you a few examples of pattern interrupts that I do. The magician never reveals all of his tricks. I'll reveal a few.

And then pattern interrupts when you're talking to another person, you know, selling one-to-one. So a pattern or a very simple one that you might not even notice a lot of salespeople like, Hey, let me ask you a question. And then they ask the question. They just steamroll. Let me ask you something. And then they ask it what's going on in that prospect's mind is like basically just gave them no choice. But if I lean in, I'm like, can I ask you something?

You're always like, yeah, what's going on? And what I just did there is I triggered your brain to be like, wow, it must be something really important. So when I start to ask you, you're hanging on to every word. Can I...

Can I ask you something? And I lower my tone. Let me ask you and then ask it where I'm bulldozing you, where they don't listen to you. I'm slowing down the cadence. That's just a little example of what we call verbal pausing, which breaks the pattern. So it forces the brain to actually pay attention. Now I'll give you another example.

We train all this like really advanced in our training portals, but sometimes I'll even do a reel here and there on it. I'll be like, well, you want to have a confused old man talent. And people are like, you can't be confused. You have to show them that you're the expert. I'm like, I agree. I'm not saying you get into the presentation and you're like, oh, I don't know how the garage door works. Like, that's not what I mean. But let's say if a prospect, let's just say your industry. And they're like, oh gosh, like,

Give me like an emotional word that they might just randomly say, like some problem that, and they're just like, oh, this has just caused a lot of stress or whatever. So this is typically how it goes is, man, this garage door, it made the loudest bang noise and I missed a day of work. Hold on. Loudest bang noise? Yes. See my confused tone?

So what happens in your subconscious, you don't even know this happens. The subconscious mind basically just tells that person, oh, he didn't understand what I meant by that. I need to clarify that. Now, what's the two biggest emotional drivers in a human being that causes them to want to change?

or the fear of future pain. So if I want to help my prospect relive the pain of the loud bang that he missed his, you know, for his work, how do I do that? I can't do that if I don't act confused. Hold on, how do you mean by a loud bang?

Then you're gonna be like, well, what I mean by that is, and you start explaining. It was so noisy, you scared the kids, the dog went crazy. Oh, it did? But what happened then? See, like, I'm like, it's like a curious slash confused tone that causes you to be like, he didn't understand what I meant by that. I need to clarify. Especially if they say like, oh, this problem has caused stress or I'm so frustrated by this or whatever.

"Oh my gosh, the pressure." - This is the last thing I needed. This is like, the work's enough, the kids need to go out. I miss my daughter's play today. - Yeah, just stuff like emotional words, especially if you heard stress, annoyed, worried, concerned. - That's when you, yeah. - How do you mean by concerned? I can just repeat back the word, worried?

and I'm at confused, worried, and they'll be like, oh my gosh. And they'll just, you know, the emotions come out, the dump, right? But if I don't use a confused tone in that context, if I'm like, what do you mean by worried? Like I'm a robot. They're like, well, you know, it's just, you know, and they stay surface level. So if I want to get them to go below the surface, because that's where the sale is made in certain context, I'm going to ask the question in a confused tone, which causes them to relive the pain.

That's an example of a pattern interrupt. - I love that. This is like fascinating. I mean, this is what I live for. Like you don't even understand. Like I love marketing more than sales because like you, you gotta grow your marketing to even have an opportunity to sell. - If nobody knows who you are, you can have the greatest product or service in the world. You ain't going anywhere.

Nothing's going to happen. I think I told you this. We started doing, I had zero followers on Instagram, December of 2021. So we're talking about 25 months. I didn't have an IG account. I'd never done IG. And in January, I'm like, my daughter was like, you should start doing these reels on Instagram. I'm like, I don't even have Instagram. So she like signs me up. I started doing reels on IG in January. So we're literally like, yeah, two years ago.

and went from zero followers to like, we have 650,000 now from reels. And that's where we got just way bigger because people saw us. I think through all of our social media, we get about 4.8 million views every week.

from just social media. And majority is IG. You're getting on YouTube. IG, yeah, YouTube. We're starting to do a lot. We do a ton on Facebook. Facebook's huge with us. IG, TikTok, Decent. And then now we're starting to really grow our YouTube channel. Is Twitter or LinkedIn a place where you'd want to be or anything you see value? We've never really done. We just started doing Twitter. We do get a lot of companies on LinkedIn. We only have like 21,000 followers on LinkedIn, but I think I do two to three reels a day on LinkedIn or whatever they do, reels or posts.

but like ExxonMobil, we train like four of their divisions. We got them from LinkedIn. They just started following me on there and they reached out. We got ExxonMobil just from some reels. And what about, what about MySpace? No, I'm kidding. MySpace, maybe one day. So you've always heard this your whole life. Anybody that's in sales says people buy with emotion and then they back it up with logic. Yeah. They buy and the cancellation is,

rate a big product like we sell doors that can't get installed for three weeks because it's custom. Yeah. So what are your theory on that of buying with emotion and then backing it up with logical things to make sure that they don't have bias. Brain study proves that for sure. So like, let me give you an example. Let's say if you're, let's say you're in the military, you're in a war and a grenade goes off and your emotional side of your brain gets damaged.

If that happens, you can't even decide that you wanna go pee.

You can't decide to get up. You can't do anything. You're a vegetable because every decision you make starts with, you feel like making the decision. Like I feel like, like picking up this book, right? It's a feeling first, everything you do starts with your emotional side of the brain. So a lot of times people, we train a lot of like companies and salespeople that sell B2B as well. And they'll be like, well, my prospects won't let me ask those questions. They don't have any feelings. It's all logical and facts. And I'm like, well,

Maybe the question you should ask me is, Jeremy, I haven't quite learned yet how to get my prospects to trust me, to open up to me emotionally and tell me what's really going on yet. Can you help me learn how to do that? Because they're humans, right? They can't make any decisions without first feeling or starting that process with their feeling side of their brain. Yeah. So yeah, it's 100% true. Now, why do people cancel?

Here's the difference to compete compared to like salespeople that might sell exactly what you do. You might have one that has a cancel rate that's like hard, that's really, really low. They're selling a ton, their cancel rates really low. Then you've got others that like sell decent, their cancel rates high. Why is that?

It's because there's a difference between external sales pressure compared to internal tension. So if I apply external sales pressure on a prospect and push and pressure them, it's my idea why they should do it. And when I leave, that starts to what? It starts to wear off. It's like going to a motivational seminar, right? They get you hyped up. Yes, I'm going to save the world. Like I'm going to change everything. And four days later, you come back and you're what?

- You're back in your old. - Exactly, because you were externally persuaded. But internal tension means if I'm doing things like we've talked about, like, you know, pattern interrupts, getting to open up, relive their pain, and I start to build a gap from where they are, like I get them to start to understand what their real situation is, 'cause most prospects don't even know when you first start talking to them, and I build a gap to where they wanna be, and they can see what the future looks like once the newfound problems are solved that they didn't even realize they had,

they have so much internal tension that they feel like they have a much bigger problem than they originally thought they had. That drives urgency, right? If I can get them to relive the pain of the problems and help them find not just one problem, but maybe two, three, four, or five other problems they didn't realize they had, that gap gets so big and I help them relive the pain that they feel the need to change, right?

Two biggest motion drivers, pain and the fear of pain. If I can't get them to feel that pain or have a fear of future pain, they don't feel any need to change. If they don't feel the need to change, even if they buy, a lot of times they cancel. But if I can get them to feel so much internal tension about their situation and they persuade themselves, it's their idea. So how can they cancel their idea? It's hard. They can't. Very, very- - I love that. Let me ask you.

When we talk, I've always learned this, and I've never said this on the podcast, and I always felt kind of like a slime ball. What's going on, dude? My dad told me about FUD, and he said, you got to remember, this is the only way to sell fear, uncertainty, and doubt. Okay. And you get this idea of like, is that, is it morally or ethically right? By bringing people down this pain, and by bringing down this fear,

fear and uncertainty and doubt. But literally that's how we make decisions to avoid pain. - You can't make a decision if you don't feel pain. As a human being, you will never feel the need to change unless you feel pain. So if you can't get a prospect to relive pain or have a fear of future pain, they feel no need to change. And if they feel no need to change,

They don't buy, they throw out objections. So literally you're doing them a disservice if you can't help them relive pain, 'cause they'll never change. The problems always stay the same, right? - Right. - Like if I'm selling a life insurance policy and if I can't help them feel like a fear of future pain, and then they pass away and they left sending the kids with nothing,

That's like my fault, the salesperson. Yeah. Like seriously, same thing with garages. Like if I can't help them have a, you know, start to relive pain of the issues with the door or have a fear of future pain of what could go wrong if they don't fix this problem now, let's say in six months, they just keep pushing down the road. It gets worse. And they have to spend three times more on the garage door.

What kind of disservice did I really help them? No, I hurt them by keeping them in the same situation. That's, I mean, that's where you have to look at. You got to look at it. I agree with you. Here's one of the biggest things. B2B is quite a bit different than B2C. I mean, it's a lot, it's a lot of the same, but you coach both. What would you say the biggest differences are? The biggest difference is, it depends on if you're selling S and B compared to enterprise level.

So enterprise level, you really have to know how to navigate through the organization to find other decision makers and people who influence the decision makers. That's a big problem that a lot of people don't understand. They're like, well, I got all six decision makers on board. I'm like, well, what about the people influencing them?

Because let's say if I'm selling some type of, I don't know, like SaaS product or- Software. Software, whatever. Well, the chief technology officer might not have any decision-making authority. It could be the COO, CFO, COO. Let's say I get all three of them on the board.

But that CTO, maybe they feel a little bit threatened by my new software. Maybe they feel like the boss is gonna notice something they did wrong and maybe get rid of them because an outside vendor now is having to come in and fix this mess. And they might feel threatened by your solution and go to the CEO and say, you know what? This is really bad, but I can fix it because of this, this, and this. And now...

you're gone from somebody who influences the decision maker, not the decision maker himself. A lot of times the assistants influence the decision makers.

You'd be surprised. The executive assistant. Exactly. And taking care of the gatekeeper is important. So when I got an enterprise, like I got really good at navigating who could influence the decision makers. So you'd like somehow get an org chart and you'd, how do you even start? Well, just ask the C-level executive. So walk me through, like, like walk me through the decision-making process in your organization when it comes to solving XYZ problems.

Just questions like that. And then you clarify and probe based off their answers. Okay, but I'm concerned though, because if we put this in, what about your CTO? Like, what are his thoughts gonna be if we have to put this software? And you're used to it. Yeah. And he's like, well, that's true. We should probably talk to him. Well, if it helps you, I can talk to him, you know? And so it's just, it's knowing how to, in B2B, you have to learn how to navigate.

Because if you cannot get the other decision makers and influencers on board, you're just like hoping and praying that the first couple of people you talk to can, and that's a dangerous position to be in, that you will lose 95% of the time. I would even go so far as I'd get the decision makers on board and then be like, you know what? I'm concerned for you guys because what happens if you take this to legal? Because it always has to go through legal. You take this through legal and

What's legal's job to do? Yeah, exactly. They're getting paid to say what? No. No, because do they really care if your revenue goes up by 12% this year? How does that really affect them? They're on...

retainer, right? So what are you going to do if you go to them and they just want to shoot this down because they don't really care? Like, how are you going to be able to solve X, Y, Z without this? And they're like, no, no, no, we will not do this. Like, and they would just push it through legal, no matter what they'd be like, ram it down their throats. But if you don't prepare them to go to legal, like I would be so prepared with any loophole. I'd even go to far as like, yeah, but

what's gonna cause this deal to get stuck in legal though? Like, I'm just concerned for you guys. It's just gonna get stuck there. And I literally would like the good, the bad, the ugly. And then once I knew the good, the bad, the ugly, then I knew what to do to control that situation. If you don't, you're guessing and you will never win. I love that. And I know when you go to the decision makers, it's like,

We work with some firehouses, right? Do the doors. They're like, well, I got to go to, they got to go to get the funding from some type of municipality. And it's like, how are you going to go to the Miss Italian? But tell me like, you know, what are you going to say to them? Cause I'd always, I do that. But what are you going to say to him? If he doesn't want you to, I got to always ask consequence questions. Like, no, no, no, no, no. You'd probably not coach him through what to say and everything. You had to be prepared, man. I love that. B2B is, would you say B2B is if you had to say relatively the harder skill,

B2B, B2C, enterprise level B2B. There's just nuances for both. Like if I'm selling B2C and let's say I'm selling door to door, I gotta be really quick witted. I have to learn how to be quick. If I'm selling B2B, I don't have to be as quick witted because it's a slower ball game. You see what I mean? Yeah. But-

I have to learn how to navigate and talk to, I have to learn how to persuade multiple, multiple people. Whereas if I'm selling, let's say to a husband and wife, a garage door, I'm just, you know, overcoming the husband and wife's objections. If they have any, I don't have to like, you know, they don't necessarily, well,

they might sometimes say well i gotta go talk to my financial advisor about this or i've got to talk to grandma george you know and sometimes you can help them overcome that that concern but besides that there's good and bad from both there's things you have to learn both for sure so i was sitting down with the pe company our investors and literally my full management team

And they said, what's going on in these couple markets? And I said, it's all a people problem. People need to see that it's possible in their own market to hit the numbers, the conversion rates, the service to sales. We call that gross close rate. All of our best markets have one or two amazing people doing it in that market. They say it's possible. It's proof. Success leaves clues. Sure.

One of the biggest problems I've identified for 2024 for myself is recruiting A plus 10 out of 10 talent. Like I like to take a beautiful canvas and train on garage doors. Most people say, how do I find a guy that's a good technician? I say, how do I find a good human being that looks me in the eye, tells a great story, smiles a lot, that's just genuinely interested in people. Yeah, you know the difference?

The problem, and I love technicians, but they know so much about the product that they just talk about the features and benefits because they think that's going to make the sale. When you're not selling the garage door, you're selling the results of what the garage door does for them. What is it? Blue Ocean? Yeah. You're not selling the door.

You're selling the results of what the door does for them. And technicians, they're product experts. So they know everything about the manufacturer and how it works and all that stuff, but that's not why people buy. They buy the results of what your thing does, not the thing itself. - So if I told you the results

this insulated door is way stronger, right? It's not going to fatigue like this one. It's going to be a lot warmer in the winter, a lot cooler in the summer in your garage. - But what are the results of that? - This is what I'm just going to go through and I'm going to have you give me the results. It's going to be safe every time little Tommy hits the button, it's going to open and it's going to be safe. If the garage door happened to come down on a bumper, it's not going to fold the garage door. It's going to keep all the nasty bugs out. You know, the scorpion spiders, you're probably getting some issues. The kitchen's on the other side. This is an entryway of bugs.

See the problems you're starting to create in their mind that builds the gap? Because it's not just one problem of keeping little Johnny safe. Now there's like four or five problems, and now that gap's much bigger in their mind, so it's hard for them not to buy. But talk to me about if you had to give me the solutions of future problems with what I said, how would you? Because I wouldn't want to say those problems to them, because if I say it to them, I'm biased.

They know that I'm the salesperson, right? So it goes in one ear out the other. So I have to wrap my questions around those problems where basically they tell themselves what those problems are.

So let's say, I don't know, let's say, give me the first one. You said it's really strong because of what? It's a sandwich door that is still on steel. It's basically like it's bulletproof. I mean, literally like this thing could come down on a bowling ball or a bicycle and not fold. What are the consequences if they don't have that strong of a garage door? What happens is it buckles very easy. It gets damaged. I mean, literally if it comes down on anything, you ruin the door.

Yeah, and does that typically happen quite a bit? It does. Okay. I mean, there's a lot of doors with kinks and cracks already. We show them the product and it's just uninsulated. It's flimsy. So here, I got a question for you. This would help me because I know we train some people in your space, but I didn't look at the scripts before I came here. What type of questions do you ask them to find out what their situation is about that door? Like what is their real situation? What type of questions would you guys ask? So typically what I try to ask people

is that we do a little bit of work on Zillow. Like, this is a beautiful home. How long have you lived here? I want to know how often they're using the door. Yeah. How many kids do you have? Is there a Mrs. Jones? Yeah. So we're probably assuming you're using the door four or five times per person. Okay. The garage door is rated on a cycle every time the door goes up and down. Yeah. So...

If I know something broke, the chances of the other parts being worn out are high probability, right? And then one of the things I look at is scratches. Is it oxidized? Would you want to find out how long they've had the garage door? Was it already in when they moved in? Yeah, those are great questions. But typically by just looking at it, you know this is original. Oh, I know you know. But here's the reason why I'm asking you. Because if I can seed doubt in their mind,

Let's say that, just give me an example. I don't know how long do garage doors last? - Garage doors typically last 10 to 15 years. - Just a regular garage door, regular house. - Yeah, 10, 15 years, same as an air conditioning unit. - So if I said, "Oh, so how long have you guys lived in the house for?" "Oh, 15 years." And was, did you put in a new garage or was that the original one here? Well, that's the original. So that's been in over 15 years?

See, I can start to see, see how I'm like, I'm asking, I haven't got to anything yet, but the way I'm using my tone, I'm seeding what? You're seeding the problems. That little bit of doubt. Wow, yeah. Oh, so that's the regional grudge and that's been in 15 plus years. See, my tone is starting to communicate that I might know something about that door that might not be good because of the age. I haven't got there yet.

But I can start to see that. I want to run through all this with you. You're always like, what can I do for you? Like, I go into Jeremy's office and he's like, what do you need help with? And I'm like, everything. I'm like, I'm just going to tell you the truth. I think we're pretty great, but we've got a lot of work to go. We're in the fetal stages. All of us do, yeah. So I really want to get back to

Everybody knows you're only as good as your talent. You're only as strong as your weakest link. Yeah. And like a lot of people spend a lot of money to get new clients. Yeah. I think you should spend a lot of money to have people coming in with skills. Because if I stack the deck with all A-plus players. Yeah.

A medium guy for me does 600,000. A top guy does 2 million. Yeah. That variance is massive. That's a big difference. If we get all $2 million producers, what would that mean for the company? Yeah. Way higher gross profit. On a different level. Way happier customers. Way better reviews. Because their closing percentage are so much higher, they have to see less people, less leads. You don't have to produce so many leads. Your lead cost goes down because they close higher. And I got a percentage of revenue I'm spending. Yeah. So I've got way more revenue. I could spend more on marketing and branding. And they're probably...

upselling those prospects a lot higher too, right? So instead of just selling them the one thing, they might be selling some add-ons and stuff. Oh, they're definitely higher conversion rate, higher job opportunity for sure. Sales is not just about...

closing b2b and b2c sure it's about getting talent and convincing them this is a better career yeah but where is the best melting pot and i'm tailoring this it is a home service expert podcast yeah so you know everybody asks the questions how do you find great people and i'm like if you look at your indeed in glass door people go to yelp and google to check yeah the clients do right yeah what

What do you think your internal clients do? They look at what other people are saying about you. Why would I come work for you? Yeah. I think the best salespeople, like when we teach companies, we even had to interview salespeople is we typically will find out like how committed they are to the profession because a couple of things, like I just said, if a salesperson comes in and really wants a high, high base, uh,

but a lower commission, that's a automatic red flag with us. Cause we're just like, that means they're just not. So phrase that question for me. If a salesperson comes in, oh yeah. So you're going to ask me right now. You're like, Tommy, it's great to meet you. We can go through a few questions. You learn about my life, whatever. So I want to find out about their career they had that they're coming from. Okay. So, I mean that, you know, the company you work with, I mean, they're a fairly decent company. Like what's caused you to feel like,

you might wanna look at something else. So then that kind of starts to tell me why they're looking, right? And sometimes you can read between the lines like, well, my employer sucks because of this and that. And sometimes the truth is in the middle a lot. Sometimes it's not, but then also, and how did they pay you? Like, were you on a base, like commission? Okay, and how much was your base? And if they're like, the base was really, really high. And what was your commission?

Oh, so what caused you to want to be on such a high base and like a lower commission? Yeah. So that next answer tells me, but let me, we've taken the right attitudes from bus boys and they ended up top players. Right. And we've taken the best guys from like,

Amazon fulfillment teams. Oh, really? Okay. Yeah. Like it's not always, you need sales previous history, right? You still got to tighten springs. You still got to know how to use a hammer. Ah, yeah, yeah. Technician stuff. But the technicians are sales. Because if you hired me, I'd be like, I need an assistant to do all this stuff. I don't know how to do this stuff. You would know how to do it within two months. I promise you. You're a pretty clever guy. I'd probably just hire an assistant that would actually do it. A technician. It's not a bad idea. A sales guy out there. I literally would for sure.

- So, so, because I understand the interview. So you're going base versus commission. One of the things I always look for

It's really, have they ever really, have you played sports? Did you grow up on a farm? Did you ever have to do something every day to practice to be better at it? Right. To work hard. In football, we play two a days to play one game. We practiced 10 times to play one game. I remember. So that's like, for me, if they got good at playing the trumpet, that's good enough. They practice that every day. Yeah. So you're looking for somebody who's dedicated to their craft, no matter what the craft was. Yes. They could be like,

"brilliant piano playing in high school, "and they practiced every day," that's gonna tell you their commitment level when they get something, they're committed to doing it. Commitment, there you go. Yeah, that's a huge one for sure. And committed to practice and self-improvement. Yeah, hey, do you wanna get better at sales? Or are they just like looking to get into sales so they can get into management real quickly? Sometimes that's a red flag with us because if they're just like, they don't see it as a career. And if they don't see sales as a career,

then they don't put in the time to learn more skills to increase their skills. So if they look at sales as like, this could be my career, I'm not saying that it's bad to wanna move up in management, but if that's all they're mainly focused on, that tells me that they're not really serious about sales as a profession. So they don't put in the time to learn sales. I always ask, anytime I do a keynote, anytime I do a virtual event, I always ask the audience, how many years have you gone to school for sales and persuasion?

And the crowd's like, I never thought about that. I'm like, salespeople is the only profession that comes in and says, I'm in sales when they were never educated as a salesperson. Can you, engineers don't say, I'm an engineer and they never went to school to learn how to build bridges. You know, doctors, I'm a doctor. They didn't go to 12 years of medical school. Like sales is literally the only profession where you're going to be like, I'm in sales, but you'd never really were educated on how to sell.

You just read a couple books and have a script and think you got it all figured out, but you're not really going to be at the top if you view sales that way. When I think about sales, I think really eye contact tonality, obviously body language, like literally 55% is body language. Tonality is the other like 37. The words we use is such a small percentage. The way that we communicate is outbound, like outward. And

But when there's a script, I find that so many people, if I said, Jeremy,

Just so you know, I'm not planning on spending a lot of money today. Or I start, you start your process and I say, just so you know, I'm always going to get three bids. All of a sudden the salesperson goes, it gets rid of everything they were trained on. It completely shits the bed. They don't know what to do. Yeah. So like, Hey, just so you know, I'm not spending a lot of money today. I know you guys are all about sales. Don't even try that shit on me. I'm not even that cool, man. I'm not cool. Like the sales people in there. What caused you to bring us out?

I'm not that cool. You just downplay. I'm not that cool like the salespeople. I wish I made as much money as they did. Yeah, that's completely fine. What caused you to have us come out though? And right back in. Like I'm doing three bids. Oh yeah, for sure. What are you hoping the bids come back at?

So, I mean, just the little questions like that, you just gotta downplay, you just agree like, oh, you just agree. Especially in the beginning, you just agree like, oh yeah, that's not a problem. I'm not as cool as those sales guys. I'd always sound like I'm not as cool as the sales guys for sure. What caused you to have us come out though?

and right back into it. If I can get them, I gotta get them to let their guard down, right? Because in the beginning, I have zero trust and credibility at this prospect. Even if they invited me to come over to their house, I still have zero trust and credibility. But by the time I get into the middle of that conversation, I can build such a gap from where they are to where they now realize they can be, that they feel so much internal tension because they now see problems they didn't realize they had.

that they don't really think about getting other bids because they feel like I understand their unique situation the most. And people, I always say they buy from salespeople or companies who they feel understands their unique situation the most. Because if they feel you understand their unique situation the most, they feel like you can get them the what? The best result.

And price and cost goes out the window 'cause I can get them into results-based thinking very quickly over price or cost-based thinking. I literally can count on two hands how many times in B2B sales or when I was in B2C that people that told me in the beginning, like, oh, I'm gonna look around,

at the end kept thinking, well, let me think it over. I still want to look around because within 15, 20 minutes, I could reframe their way of thinking from price or cost to end result and build such a gap that they didn't even think they needed to keep looking around. I love this. I can make this podcast happen all day. Results-based thinking always wins over price or cost. Results value.

Hey, I hope you're enjoying today's podcast. I just wanted to let you know that the super early bird tickets for the Freedom event are now available. This means 800 bucks off the elite or VIP tickets and 20% discount on general admission tickets. Listen, if you enjoyed Freedom 2023, this year we're taking the event to a whole new level. Jocko Willick, the Navy SEAL who wrote the book Extreme Ownership is already confirmed as one of our keynote speakers and there's still a lot more to come.

So go to freedom event.com forward slash podcast and get your super early bird tickets. Now that's freedom event.com forward slash podcast. Just make sure you do it before the prices go up on June 3rd. Now let's get back to today's episode.

So I want to go over five things really quickly. I don't want to hear what your thoughts are. And then we'll start wrapping up. We try to focus on five things before we'll hand it over to a product specialist. That's the way we set up to transfer it, to make sure. So imagine if you had the perfect product.

call and you're a closer. These are the five things we've established. So both parties are aware. Typically, it's a husband and wife. We live in a different time. It could be just two decision makers, right? Two partners. How is an easy way if my husband's at work, my wife's at work, my husband's out of town, my wife's out of town, they're at soccer practice with the kids,

to get it. It's a lot of times they're in the, they're busy. They're at work. What's the best way? I would just sell to the person, the one-legger. We always call them one-leggers. One-leggers, yeah. Yeah, one-leggers. I don't need both of them there. You don't need both. I just have to, I have to frame it up in a way where the one spouse is like, oh yeah, my spouse would definitely not want me to have X, Y, Z problems. How does your spouse feel about all these bugs getting through these cracks every morning? Oh, she hates it, right? So I start pre-framing that from the very beginning where he's told me his wife hates it.

seven different things that I solve. And by the very end, it's really hard for him to come say, well, I need to ask my wife if she wants me to solve all these seven things that she says that I just said, told you that she hates. It's really hard to do that. But if you don't do that and you just wait till the end, like, well, I need to talk with my wife about it.

You just, you have to learn how to, you have to, what is your wife's thoughts about X, Y, Z, you know, problem that you know that she's gonna hate? Give me an example of what a wife might hate about the garage door or something. - Well, typically a wife hates that it's loud, right? - How does your spouse feel at night when the garage comes in when you're late at night and it makes all that noise?

That's how I use my, even my facial expressions. So your facial expressions, your remote control, how your tone comes across. How does she feel when you come home late at night? And it's like that noise. What does she say to you? Does she still want you to do that with loud noise? It's all how I'm framing it the whole time. So it's very hard for him to say at the end, I need to talk with my spouse. I need to get out of this features and benefits. Cause one of the reasons I'm like, have you ever, have you ever left the house without closing your garage door?

And like worried about it and turn back around and you got to close it. You're not going to leave it open. Yeah.

"Well, let me show you this app on my phone." 'Cause I do this all the time. Like I'm notorious for leaving the garage door open, but now- Does your wife yell at you when you leave and you leave the garage door open? "I don't want you sleeping on the couch tonight." So here's what our clients do to solve that. Just little thing that you can be playful with them too. Yes, I love that. And pictures, this is something that I've been working on with a buddy of mine. He actually, you've heard of Parker and Sons? Pretty big company in town.

He kind of said, every technician can remember this. You know, Jeremy, here's what we need to do today just to make it safe. Here's what you should do. Okay. And if you were my mom. Yeah. My mom and dad got a divorce when I was seven. My mom worked three jobs. Yeah. I love my mom more than anything. Yeah. Here's what I'd be doing for mom. Yeah. I like that. I would reword it differently where it's coming from third party clients. Because a lot of times they're like, well, what would you suggest? Yeah.

and then you tell them and then they're like, well, and then they don't agree with it, right? 'Cause it's coming from you, I. So if they're like, what would you suggest to do?

I mean, I'm biased, but what our clients who have like similar situations like your garage do, what they ask us to do is this, this and this because of this, this and this. You want us to do something like that? Like they're always having us do? Yeah. See, that's called the herd theory in social dynamics. Where the herd goes, everybody thinks that's the right thing because everybody else is doing it. So I would say, well, our clients would say,

Because people always ask me like, why do you feel like you're number one or whatever? I'm like, well, I mean, who cares about me? I mean, my grandma might think of that, but our clients tell us we're the best because of...

And see now it's not me, it's what the clients are saying. And that's the herd theory. The clients are all saying, and it must be valid. And that's like keeping up with the Joneses. It's like, hey, a lot of times what I used to do is walk around the block with the client, get to know them a little bit and say, is there any doors you really like around here? And what doors do you like the best? And this is top secret, I won't tell anybody. This is off the record. I always do that. I was out of like, hey, off the record,

"Which doors do you really like from the neighbors? I promise I won't tell anybody." Just little playful tone like that. Just little things like that. And it's funny. It's charisma. It's something that I think a lot of people don't have. And it's so hard to build that skill. It's easier to train a technician to fix a garage door than it is to train on the sales side of it, in the body language. We teach like, you talk about tonality. So there's a lot of tones that you can master that are gonna,

like you said, make or break the sale, right? Get the prospect to let their guard down or they stay surface level, right? 'Cause they're guarded. So there's five types of tones really focused on. There's a curious tone. Walk me through how long have you had the home here? That's a curious tone, right? Tone is how the prospect interprets the intention behind your question. That's how they interpret it. So I'll give you an example of this. Let's say you're mad at your girlfriend. You're like, I'm so disappointed in you. And your arms out like this.

is going to cause her to typically do what? Not be happy, I don't know. Be defensive. Yeah. They're gonna get defensive, right? Because the way I asked it with my tone in my hands, but if I'm like this, I'm so disappointed in you. Now she interprets that you're disappointed, but you have concern and love and care. So her guard comes down.

by simply shifting my voice into a concern tone and putting my hand over my chest, I'm communicating that I care, I'm disappointed, but I care for you and her guard comes down. Every time I'm angry at Bri, I'm gonna just put my hand over my heart.

Change the tone a little bit. I love you, but I really- What were you thinking? What were you thinking, babe? Why would you drive like that? See, I'm telling you, you start doing it, you'll be like, "Jeremy, you're the most brilliant man ever." What? Yes. So, and then, you know, there's other tones where, you know, I need to have a challenging tone. Challenging tone. What if you don't do anything about this and these bugs keep coming in and God forbid, like, you know what happened to Jerry over here? You remember the red door? His son got bit by the brown recluse.

Like seriously, like seriously, like it's just all how you do it. Like everything like, right? That's a challenging challenge. But I might, if I want a concern tone, what's really holding you back from moving forward? What's really holding you back?

Concern tone. See, they interpret that I'm concerned for their situation, the consequence, right? And then I have a playful tone. So let's say if a prospect says like, "Hey, Tommy, hey, welcome to the house. How's your day going?" "Oh, you know, just hanging out, being the boring guy." "What about you? You being boring?" "Oh, I'm sure you're not boring." Most salespeople are like, "Oh, I'm doing really good, just working hard." Doesn't hurt you, but doesn't really help you.

I wanna have a playful tone so I get them to like open up and like realize I'm a human. What are you doing? Or how are you doing today, Jeremy? Oh, you know, just trying to stay out of trouble. You get in trouble over there? Oh, I'm sure you're not in trouble. See, I'm getting them to let their guard down immediately to a stranger. They don't even know me, but it's because he's a playful tone. If I didn't use a playful tone, what if I said it like this? Oh, just hanging out, being the boring guy. What about you?

Oh, you are really boring. That's awful. You suck. You suck. Just fix it and leave. Yeah, exactly. So you see, like my tone can make or break. I can say the same things, but if I use the right tone, I get a completely different reaction. It's crazy the way the brain works. So you said concerned, challenging, playful. What are the other two? Curious and confused. Curious and confused. Hold on. How do you mean by stress? Confused tone.

Like when I did door to door, okay. I started learning how to interrupts very quickly. I had to learn this like on my own because when I started knocking on doors back with my first job there, everybody would be the same thing. Like, hi, I'm with XYZ company. The reason why we're out in your neighborhood is, oh, not interested. Like literally bam, bam, bam, bam. Numbers game, sales is a numbers game. I'm like,

I don't want sales to be numbers game because that really sucks and it's really hot out here and I don't want to spend 12 hours. I'd rather spend four and make a lot of money. So I got to figure out how to break the pattern, right? So I would start knocking on the door and I'm like, the first thing I need to do is not look like a sales person because when you look like a sales person, all dressed up, changed, nice clothes,

they don't come to the door 'cause they think you're trying to sell them something. So I'm like, how do I not look like that? So what I did is I just wear like, you know, just boring khaki shorts. I bought those like old man, grandpa, you know, the white New Balance shoes. - Oh yeah. - We're getting close. See, yeah, see, we're getting close. I'm already starting to wear them now.

But I was wearing them when I was like 22. And then I went and bought construction vests. So I bought like an orange construction vest or a lime green one. And then I had like a clipboard, like a big thick one, 'cause it had up all the contracts in there. And I have a document on it, like a survey with a pin. Everybody says to me, "Why do you always carry a pin in your hands?" In my reals, because I started with door to door. So I'd like,

I'm selling home security systems. If I sold solar, I'd probably be looking at the roof. I sell pest control, I'd be looking at the cobwebs or the ant mounds in the yard or whatever, right? So when they come to the door, they come to the door, I'd be standing to the side like six feet back. And they come to the door and be like, yeah, are you guys the property owners here? And they'll be like, yeah, we're the property owners. What's going on?

How to interrupt automatically. Boom, right there. Now they're engaged. Just an example of pattern. I like that. I want to hear more. I got to hear more about this. Oh, you should see the ones I do on stage. Okay. Well, I'll have to see you on stage soon. It's interesting. So you do door to door sales.

Huh? Did you do door-to-door training? Do we train? Yeah, we train every year. We train 160. According to Forbes, there's 163 industries and there's subsets of each one. Like home services, you have garages, you have 50 different things, right? Home services is one.

Home service is actually categorized in home improvement. So that could be like doors, windows, garage doors, siding, carpet, tile, bathroom repair, senior, you know, bathroom safety guards for, you know, cabinets, countertops. Home improvement's like the six or seven biggest industry we train. It's hard to believe there's 153 in home service, just one of those. Yeah, crazy. So-

Number two, so both parties are aware you could get one-legged. So the other thing we try to do is price desensitize, what we call it. So ask me how much something like this costs. Oh, is that what you're saying? So go ahead. How much something like this costs, though? I'm glad you asked. Depending on what you like, we have a customer last week that just wanted the top of the line. They spent $50,000. But I've got some pretty good things.

that we could do at this store for around five. So anchoring, whatever you wanna call it. - You're anchoring, price anchoring. - It's literally, so when I give them a 7,500, they're like,

That's amazing. Yeah, it's surprising. If you wanted a polyurethane steel back with all the deck of harbor with the wood fall up front and you got a weird opening here, it gets around 30, 40, 50. Well, it depends on, so I would always say like, well, it depends on, you know, what type of, I don't want to say result, but I would say like, it depends on kind of really what you're wanting the garage to do and how long you're really wanting it to last.

And then they would sit there and like, in your mind, which, you know, I'd have to come up with questions for you with this, but I would always compare there. Cause I, well, it depends on this, this, and this where they then ask, well, well, what if I wanted this? I'm like, well, typically for that. And then I would price anchor with like a really, really high price point with like everything in the yards. And then usually even in a proposal, I'd go over three different options. I'd go over five highest, highest option. It's like,

so crazy high, but then that- You start high and then go down. You need to be really high. And then I have a middle option. And it depends on the industry. There's some industries where you're only doing it at like one price. It just depends. We have options. Yeah. So with your industry, I'd probably give options. Let's say three options. So I'm gonna go the high, like bells and whistles, so high, like crazy high.

But then I go down in the middle and the middle is the sweet spot where I want everybody to be. And then you have like the low cheap option that doesn't really solve all the problems. We call that the builder grade. Yeah. We call that, we call that, this is the, so instead of saying the cheapest, we say this is builder grade or the most economical. This is typically what people have to do if they don't have the funding for this option and this option. Yeah.

That's typically how I'd word that. Oh, I like that. This is what people do if they don't have the funding for this option or this option or we can't get them funding. And they're like, oh, I don't want that then. But then at least I'm prepared if they can't get funding, I can still get them in. Because notice I said this is what people do if they can't get funding for this and this. And if I can't get them funding, then they still want that option. So that's the third one.

So the middle one. So here's, I'll go back. Yeah. So freaking high that it's like, wow. Then the mid-range one's your sweet spot. And then the really, really one that doesn't solve all the problems. The reason why you want to have that really high option, the high-end restaurants do the same thing. They come out like, here's the $17,000 bottle of wine. The middle option's $1,000. Here's the Wagyu raised in Japan. We only do five.

Here's the middle option that's 1500 and here's the cheap option that's 150. You're always picking the 1500 one or the high one 'cause the high one's so high that seems like the 1500 is like the bargain, but the other one's too cheap.

Right. It's exactly why they do that. So you do the same thing. So you would start high and come down. Yeah. You started. So we got the A1 signature five, one through five star. Yeah. You started the signature and come down. The highest one. Cause I'm price anchored where they're like sticker, sticker shocked. And then I come down in the middle, which that's the one that actually is going to solve all their problems. And that's like your company's sweet point. And then you go to the one that people have to get it in if they don't have the funding for the other two. And that brings me to the third one, which we call our promotions.

Have you heard about, do you want to use your money or did you want to use ours today? You could, yeah. And that's when we say, so all I got to do is inspection just even to get this over to a product specialist. If you just want to fill out our application, it gives us some options. Yeah, typically most of our clients, we use third-party lending companies that actually loan funding to people to actually put in so they don't have to put as much money down. Would that help you if we did that for you like we do for them?

It's just the way you word it. We use with third party lenders at loan capital, like loan funding. I always say loan funding 'cause it's more like an investment rather than like they finance you because finance means interest, interest, but funding means investment. This is something good, right? Funding or funds means something good. I love funding. Especially for what you said, I'd say funding for sure. And then the fourth one,

is how do we build urgency and you kind of went over that a little bit it's seen out by the questions you ask because your prospects when you first start talking to them going to go out on a limb every industry don't really understand what their real problems are or they might know they have a problem like oh it's not working but they don't understand the root cause right and they don't understand the consequences of what happens if the problems don't get solved

So if I can start asking questions that seed doubt and get them to think of problems and issues that they never really thought about, and I can help them find not just one problem, it doesn't work, but two or three or four or five other problems, the spiders coming in, all those other things you said, the loud noises, then there's five problems they're dealing with.

So if they come back and they're like, you know what? I think I can just hire pest control company to get rid of the spiders. Well, that just wiped out one problem. I still got four there in their mind and they can't solve those themselves. But if I only found one problem, the spiders coming in and they come up with a solution, there's no sale. But if I can find four or five problems they didn't know they had, they're not finding four or five solutions to solve that. They're still buying. That's how you build the gap.

I love this. You can't, questions don't just build a gap. It's like you said, it's how you ask the questions that get the prospect to emotionally open up. Because if you just ask,

like consultative, logical based questions, your prospects are gonna stay surface level with you and they never go below the surface where the emotion is. That's where the sales made, right? So if you just ask like regular surface level questions, what are you looking for in a solution? What's some problems you're having with the garage? And then you go into your pitch about how you solve it. Most are still gonna be surface level. There's no emotion. And so there's still logical based thinking and they're just gonna give you logical based answers with a lot of objections.

But if I can use my tone to trigger them to let their guard down, that's where the emotion comes out and that's where they sell themselves.

This is gold. The last one's Mellow, the customer. Maybe platinum, but I don't know. I can go with gold, I guess. Tommy, put me down. So I was thinking platinum or diamonds. I got this new model that we A-framed. We put a picture of the guy's family. So you would say this is my like massive family. But what you do is you say, you know, Mr. Miner, I just want to take a minute while I'm cleaning up here.

I want to show you my wife. These are my two kids. This is my dog, Max. And this is the reason why I have this career. This is the reason why I spend time away from them. My goal is to give them a great Thanksgiving, a great Christmas, provide them with everything I didn't have. And I hope I gave you a five out of five service today throughout the whole process. And it would mean the world to me because if you take a picture of me doing the work

and I gave you great service and let us know about it online on Google, people see that and they ask for me by name. This creates job security for me. Would you take a few minutes?

While I'm cleaning up, I'll just quick picture if you got time. You know what I would say? Tell me. Hey, would it be a crazy idea or would it be completely unrealistic if I had you give me a review that would maybe help my boss like not yell at me anymore? So you wouldn't even bring the family? None of that stuff? Would it be a crazy idea if I asked you to give me like a really good review so my boss doesn't yell at me? I'm going to A-B test them. I'm still using my idea. I'm telling you, they'll be like, oh, it's not a crazy idea.

- Would it be a crazy idea? - No, don't say it like that. But say it like, would it be completely, you gotta be playful tone. Would it be completely unrealistic if I had you give me like a really good review on Google so my boss stops yelling me when I come in the office? - But you want it done now. - Yeah. And then I'll say, what's your timeframe on giving me that review so I can actually go in there and him not yell at me anymore. And they'll just laugh and they'll just do it there. - Okay, got it. - It's just a faster way. I like your way, I love it, but I'm just all about speed.

I like speech. I also like emotion. So I want them to say, "No, it's not a crazy idea." No, I wouldn't be opposed to that. Would you be opposed to giving me like a really good review on Google so my boss stops yelling at me every day? Yeah. Oh, yeah. What's your timeframe on doing that so he doesn't like start throwing stuff at me when I go to that office? I'm going in 10 minutes. Oh, I'll just do it now. I'm telling you, every time. You want to get them to say no. No, I wouldn't be opposed to that. No, it's not a crazy idea. No, it wouldn't be completely unrealistic.

So don't say unrealistic. Would it be completely unrealistic? No, it's not completely unrealistic. I always say like salespeople are like, oh, I have to get them to say yes seven times to get the sale. I'm like, there's no evidence that that's even the case. That's a book from the 1940s where they did an internal survey from a sales training company that said that. And every book since then is just copy and pasted. There's no evidence. I actually, in most contexts, want to get them to say no because it actually leads to the yes.

Are you opposed to actually having a conversation around that? No, I wouldn't be opposed. What do you have instead of open?

Getting to say no that leads to the yes, but you gotta learn the tone. I know I like your stuff Tommy Don't get me wrong, but I just like I like no I just like messing around with people on playful tone You know it's it's smart and it's humor and I think humor is the best thing that could happen in any time What's your time for him? I'm giving me the review so he doesn't like throw his shoes at me I think he might even get fired. I might even get fired today, and I'm joking I

Oh, I'll just do it now. Seriously. Ask them their timeframe because the timeframe is now in their brain. And when they say, oh, I'm going to do it here, the timeframe's in their brain. If you just leave them do it, then they get busy. They never get done. And they never get done. If I ask them what their, what's your timeframe on authorizing the agreement so we have permission to actually install the new door? Now I put a timeframe in their brain when they tell me. So when you're training on this, what I've noticed is

different people are able to pick this stuff a lot faster. Like they can pick up these things and there's other people that you could have do it over and over and over. And I know you've got a lot of training. We're going to jump into that. Yeah. But when you're training these things, it's always ongoing before you were going to, if you owned a garage door roofing, HVAC plumbing, electrical company, um,

At what point do you know they got it? At what point, how much training before you let them actually try on a customer? Yeah. You know, like my good friend, you know, Bradley, you've been on this podcast. Is training something you did or something you do? You do forever. It's do. Like I always look at everybody that's at the top of their game in any profession. Athletes train every day. Coaches train every day.

watch film every day, CEOs read books every day, go through training programs, neurosurgeon, practice every day, go through more schooling. - Simulations and everything. - Everybody's at the top of their game is training every day. Average people in every profession,

They don't train every day. That's why they stay average. That's literally the difference between top actors and actresses. They're rehearsing every day, right? So it depends on the person, how much time they put in. You know, I say, you know, people always ask me like, how did you become so good at sales? How'd you make all that money in all those industries? I'm like, well, I just simply, I learned everybody. That's it.

I wasn't born with advanced tonality, right? I had to practice advanced tonality from somebody who was- You practiced in a mirror ever? I didn't. With my tonality skills, I actually hired like acting instructors that were not caring down the street. Sorry, Karen, I love you for $20 an hour, but people that actually have experience.

And 'cause you learn tonality, you know, Nick here, he knows about that. So you learn tonality. So like when you're watching a movie, who's your favorite actor or actress? Tom Cruise. Oh, I love Tom Cruise, yeah. He's good. Yeah, yeah. So everything he says in those movies is pretty much for the most part, 100% scripted.

Does it sound scripted to you? No. No, it sounds natural because his tonality, his facial expressions and his body language make it natural. You don't even view him as Tom Cruise in that movie. You view him as what? Maverick. The character he's portraying. Yeah. That's how good his tonality, body language and facial expressions are. His facial expressions and his tone trigger different emotional drivers in your brain that keep you curious and engaged the entire movie.

when you watch like those bad movies, like on Netflix or some other things, and like from those actors and actress that you'd never heard of, it almost feels like it's kind of canned and inauthentic and scripted 'cause they haven't learned tonality, body language, facial expressions. Right.

What I did everywhere I drove, listen to sales persuasion influence. So I drive around cars appointments when I was first in sales, go to the gym back and forth, iron my clothes, got my headphones in five minutes here, 10 minutes here, 15 minutes here, seven minutes here. I don't have time to learn how to sell Jeremy. What do you listen to your car? Oh, Taylor Swift. Oh, ACDC. Oh, CNN news.

Fox political show. How much money is that making you every month? Oh, bagels, right? So start listening to like what, if you're a salesperson, literally, if you started listening, like everywhere you drive and you can have a cheat day, you know, like the food, like every Sunday you get to listen to Taylor and you know, your favorite rock band or your rap guy and get to jam out. But the other six days of the week, all you're listening to sales persuasion influence. You do that for 30 days, 60 days, 90 days,

six months, a year, five years, 10 years, you're gonna be really successful in sales. You can't help it. It's in your subconscious mind. Plus-

If you're in the role, you're actually applying it. It's applied. I want to be thinking about what I'm doing. If I'm driving to appointments and if I'm listening to some political talk show, your mind is not focused on what you're about to do with your prospect. But if I'm listening to like sales and tonality and body language training and all this stuff, well, I'm in the right mindset when I'm talking to that prospect.

Now you want to start listening to all your music and all that stuff. Do it on the weekends when you're like zoned out, right? Right. But during the Monday through Friday, if you're not listening to sales percentage influence on the way to your appointments and back and forth, you're losing sales. You should be making, I mean, point, I mean, a hundred percent when you're just not in the mode, not in the mood. When Simon said Nick,

Talks about start with why. You got some people that are happy making 60 grand. They're just like, hey, I'm good. Everything's paid. I got a roof over my head. They're just... Are you sure though? Or is that what they just say as a defensive mechanism? Well, their actions speak louder than words. When you say...

They don't want to run that extra call. They don't want to work weekends. They want no more training. It's like, I just want to run my calls and get home. Like I can see the difference of a top. Come on. What do you got for me? Give me anything. I'm ready to become number one in this. They got to drive to win. Yeah. And that's who you want to hire. If they are driven, like if you can find somebody that's just driven, like they want to be good at what they do. And then you can teach them the right skills. They're going to win. They're going to succeed. If you find somebody that's not really driven, they're just kind of like, uh,

That's a red flag for sure. Because they're not going to put in the work to learn how to sell. Like selling is not something you're born with. Like were you born out of your mother's womb with advanced questioning skills? He's a born salesperson. He can sell ice to an Eskimo. No, if your prospect says you can sell ice to an Eskimo, they are not buying from you. That is a kiss of death. You're a great salesperson. I had the few times in my whole career where they said that and I'm like, oh, oh.

like kryptonite. Like, what did I do wrong? Like they're not buying now because they feel like they're being sold. See the best salespeople in the world. You don't even feel like you were sold. You feel like they did you a favor for them, allowing you to pay them to solve your problems and get where they want. That's when you start to master sales. When the prospect is literally thanking you, like they feel that you did a favor for them being allowed to pay you.

That's great. That's when you start learning that, oh, I'm starting to get this down. And it's an ever learning thing. Like I'm still learning, you know, and some people would say I had a pretty successful sales career. And every day I'm listening to sales persuasion. Some of it's crap. I listened to it, but I'm like, you know what? It's actually a really good idea that he had. But if we relinquish the question there and we use more of a confused tone, it's going to convert better. I NEPQ it. I love it.

So if someone wants to reach out to you, I know you obviously you've really spent a lot of time. Well, they DM me on like you did. It took like a month to get back to me from my DM team. What was the best way? Yeah. My number is, no, I'm just joking. We'll give them some, you know, a little bit of, I always like to give people,

A little bit of nibbles, little stuff where they can kind of get their hands wet. And they're like, oh, I could see how that works. I need everything. I need to learn how to sell. So they go to one of our free Facebook groups, send them to salesrevolution.pro. Salesrevolution.pro.

That has 110, 115,000 people in it. All salespeople. That's a Facebook group. It's a Facebook group. SalesRevolution.pro. We go live in there. I go live in there two or three times a week, different Q and A's, different trainings. People always say, why do you go live in the free group? I just like it, man. I like it. You know, people see like, oh, wow, that would work. How do I get the training? How do I, you know, we don't have like one training program with one price. We like 36 different training programs.

And it's all based on like your skill level you have now. Some, you know, depending on your industry, we're gonna put you in different training programs that we have, whether you're B2B or B2C or door to door. We have it all tailored now. We're always adding content, but have them join the Facebook group first. Then get a taste because we'll even send them some free stuff if they ask in the DMs. Like, hey, Jeremy, I'm having a hard time with,

My prospects are always saying like, "Enough with the questions. Tell me how much it's gonna cost. I'll tell you if I'm interested. What do I do?" "Oh, well, Jeremy has a training on that. Here you go." And a lot of times we just give that little thing to him for free, right? And then if they wanna get our Wall Street Journal bestseller, Barnes & Noble bestseller, then go to barnesandnoble.com and get the book. Now, if you go to Amazon, I'm gonna be angry at you 'cause we have a really big deal with Barnes & Noble.

So the more you get it from Barnes & Noble, it will cost you about an extra dollar. So if you need a GoFundMe page, reach out to me and Tommy, we'll give you a GoFundMe page for the dollar. But new model of selling, selling to an unsellable generation, me and Jerry Acuff owns a big consulting firm on the East Coast.

And we give a lot of tactical stuff in that book. My biggest beef when I read sales books in the early days is that it was just all theory. And they were just like, you gotta set goals. You gotta have the right mindset. You gotta be motivated. I'm like, well, shit, I'm motivated. That's why I bought your book, but I need to know what to say.

Yeah, there's a lot of Q&A. There's like the customer that goes through what not to say, the bad company, the good company. And this is nothing compared to our training programs. This is just like an introduction. Like I love salespeople. I love the book warriors. They're like, oh, let me buy the book. I'm going to triple my sales. How are you going to triple your sales when 93% of the sales by your body language and tonality?

How are you gonna learn tonality from a book? - What did you call the people that just watch Instagram reels, something warriors? - Oh, the freebie seekers. - Freebie seekers. - I learned that from a guy named Myron Goldman. I met at ClickFunnels. He's a great guy. He teaches you how to sell from stage. He's like, "You got the freebie seekers." - What's his name? - Myron Goldman. I can make an introduction. He's a cool dude. He's down in Tampa Bay. He teaches you how to like speak and sell from stage.

But yeah, I was back and he's like, yeah, you got the freebie seekers, right? They just like everything's free. And then they wonder why they're not like at the top of the ball game. Because look, you know, our free content is great. We have thousands of testimonials just from free content. We even have people that say, oh, your free content is better than any course I've paid for. But you want like our advanced training for our clients, more industry specific, you get into our training programs. Because like a book is a book, you know, it's kind of like this. Is there, what's your favorite song?

- My favorite song. - Your favorite song. Just open up everybody. What's your favorite song? - Okay, let me think. You know, I kind of like "Don't Stop Believin'," but it's- - Okay, "Don't Stop Believin'," that's a journey, right? - Yeah, journey. - Like if I said sing that song, could you sing that song pretty much word for word? Like you know most of the lyrics. - I know most of it, yeah. - Okay, what's your favorite book?

- My favorite book is "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie. - Can you recite one full page word for word? - No. - You can't. Do you know why? - Why? - You know why? You can memorize a song,

A song has about the same amount of words as one page of this book, but you'll never be able to memorize this whole page. But I listened to the damn song a million times. Because of the melody. The melody, the tonality allows you to memorize what you're hearing. But if you read the words, you can't memorize it's way harder.

Books will never do that much for you because within two days of reading a book, your brain only retains 19%. Within a week, less than 10%. Within a month, less than 3%. You know, it's like companies like, well, we want you to come in and do a full day workshop so we can triple sales. How are you going to triple sales within 30 days after leave? You're only going to remember 2.9%. What?

It's ongoing. It's every day. Like if you're listening to me every single day for 30, 45 minutes in your car, in our training programs, it just bleeds into your subconscious. And it's all audible type stuff where they could literally listen to the car. Ours is all virtual training. It's on the Lightspeeds platform.

It's me going through everything. But I'm just saying, do I need a computer or can I listen to it on my stereo? Phone, computer, everything. Yeah, you'd have like your phone hooked in. Just Bluetooth it. Yeah, Bluetooth it. Your phone, Apple Play, whatever. Your Bluetooth. Yeah, all that stuff.

So this is absolutely fascinating. I had a good time. I'm obsessed with this stuff. I mean, back in the day, it was Brian Tracy and Tom Hopkins. Brian's a good guy. Yeah. He's a good guy. So here's how I finish up. Yeah. We talked about a lot of cool stuff. Yeah. Sales is amazing. Yeah. Maybe there's something I didn't talk about. Maybe there's something that you want to just leave the audience with. I'll give you the final last thoughts. You know, it's something I've always lived by.

my whole life, the former CEO of Vivint, that was the first company that I, that was kind of like where I left my last year or two, I was with that company in the door to space. Todd Peterson is the founder, but they just exited for like another 7.9 billion, the rest of the company to Blackstone. I was coming, I was telling you about, and I remember sitting in a conference room,

that we're all around him. And he's like, you know, somebody is like, you know, one day we're gonna do this. Or they said something like someday we're gonna do this or one day. And he's like, look guys, you know, the time is now. He's like, when people say one day I'm gonna do this or someday I'm gonna do that, that is the path that leads to nowhere.

And so I've always kept that in the back of mind. Like today's the day. Day one or one day? Like today is the day that I start. There's never gonna be a perfect time. It's not someday I wanna do this. One day I'm gonna learn how to sell better. I'm young. One day I'll learn how to do this. No, today's the day. Why are you waiting? Like make the decision, do it today. And I always say that successful people don't learn from their mistakes.

And people are like, what? Yes, they do. No, no, no. Successful people learn from other people's mistakes so they don't make the same mistakes. So you, if you want to learn how to sell, learn from someone who is really, really successful in that. So you don't learn it like hard way. Like I have to go through trial and error for 12 years and figure it out on my own. Successful people don't learn from their mistakes. They learn from other people's mistakes. So they don't make the same mistakes because who wants to fail? I always say that. I can be like, oh, failing's good. No, failing sucks. Why do you want to fail?

I wanna minimize my chances of failure. And if I learn the right skills, I have more control of whether I succeed or not. If I don't learn the right skills, I have a much higher probability of failing. I don't wanna fail. I wanna succeed. So I want to learn from others

who are much better at that subject so I don't fail. I wanna learn how to do reels and marketing. I'm gonna watch huge influencers, what they're doing and learn from them so I can succeed. I don't wanna trial and error for 10 years and hope and pray I get lucky. That's always been my motto. I don't wanna fail, I wanna succeed.

I always say stuff that's counterintuitive. Everybody hates me. They're like, no, Jeremy, it's good to fail. Well, you can fail if you want. I'm trying to succeed over here. Well, I just got one thing to finish up with on that note is when I started a business, if you gave me a million dollars, I would have lost it all. True. I needed to fail with a much smaller amount. You know why? Because you didn't know what you know now. Now, you had somebody like Tommy.

that you could have hired in the very beginning, your chances of failing would have been much smaller. I talked to a guy the other day. He goes, you completely changed my business plan. It was a 16-year plan. You saved that guy. I said, it's a 16-year plan. Yeah. You mean when we have like AI robots running around doing everything for us? If he hadn't learned from you, he probably would have failed. Yeah, no. You minimized his chances of failure. That's the plan. It's like literally I put it all out there and I'm not like the king of anything. But what I do know is I've been humble now. I love it. I failed a lot.

Yeah. And I have failed a lot. And it's stupid decisions. Like I got a deal on Upwork for my art on my vehicle. Yeah. And everybody talked about it. I see your trucks everywhere. Yeah. I love it. And then I realized when I met the person who dominates the kick charge brand. Yeah. Like how much of an idiot I was. Right. And I used to get...

old Dakotas, 2003s. And I'm like, why would anybody pay 50,000 when I got a truck for three grand? Yeah. I didn't know what accelerated depreciation was. I didn't understand the morale of the guy showing up. I didn't understand when a guy pulled up in an old truck that we look like, how are we going to ask these prices when we look like- Well, you look like a lower status, right? Yeah. And that's- You want to look like high status. Because if you're high status, you must get results for a lot of people. If you're low status, nobody wants you.

- We talked about the status game. - It's so true because like exactly what you said, the guy's like, you saved my business. See, he learned

from your mistakes so he didn't make the same mistakes. That's the difference. So find somebody like Tommy, if you're in this profession, learn from him so you don't make the same mistakes so it minimizes your failure rate. Like, I don't know why people just like, they talk about failure, like it's a lovely thing, but if you would have went back in the day and you're like, man, if I could have learned from somebody like me and be where I'm at now eight years earlier, you know, there you go. Last thing, just personal question, we'll close it out.

Do you find yourself doing this with like your kids? And I know you've been married, you got a girlfriend, Kayla. Yeah. Do you find yourself, can you turn it off? Or is this like just a way of life? Cause you've mastered it. It's just a way of life for me. Like if you want to be like a really, really good person in that field, it's just something how you communicate with everybody. Like always tell everybody, it's like, hey, you sound really scripted on your calls. Yeah. Because you don't know how to bridge from question to question using verbal cues. Like, ah, but what happens if you don't do that? Really? Oh,

"Oh, okay, but then how many years did..." See, it's more conversation 'cause I'm bridging from question to question. - Does your ex-wife ever like turn this shit off and know your games? - No, that's a whole nother story. We're not going there. But to me, it's a way of life. And other sometimes they'll be real with you. Like I'll sit down on the couch, we just had like a five day event and like Saturday night I got over, I like literally sat down after five days and I'm like,

shoot me. I don't want to talk about sales. I don't want to talk about anything. I want to watch ancient aliens and I just want to sit here and like do nothing. Could it be? Could it be? Ancient astronaut theory. The ancient astronaut theorist believe that, you know, like this is wonderful. I love this. It's getting my mind off of it. So yeah. Jeremy, I appreciate you coming in today. What's up, man? Thanks for having me in, bro. Thank you.

Hey there, thanks for tuning into the podcast today. Before I let you go, I want to let everybody know that Elevate is out and ready to buy. I can share with you how I attracted a winning team of over 700 employees in over 20 states. The insights in this book are powerful and can be applied to any business or organization. It's a real game changer for anyone looking to build and develop a high-performing team like over here at A1 Garage Door Service. So if you want to learn the secrets that helped me transfer my team from stealing the toilet paper...

to a group of 700 plus employees rowing in the same direction, head over to elevateandwin.com forward slash podcast and grab a copy of the book. Thanks again for listening and we'll catch up with you next time on the podcast.